Pontiac Head Cooling Trick - Part 2 - Keeping Your Heads Cool
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 8 พ.ค. 2022
- Does plumbing the rear of both Pontiac Heads help the engine's temperature? Only if it's plumbed correctly! Check out why it works... It'll blow your mind, and not your head gasket. In addition, I also show you the Correct way to install AN fittings.
In this episode, "Pontiac Head Cooling Trick - Part 2 Keeping Your Heads Cool" I'll diagram the Pontiac Water Flow, and what I did to help it... or, did I hurt it? We shall see! Enjoy!
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Part's and/or supplies used in this video series;
For Edelbrock Heads, the front/rear large water ports are 3/4 NPT. If you have stock heads, I suggest using standard 5/8" rubber hose, and standard press in nipples, like this one; butlerperformance.com/i-24452...
For AN Hoses, I used Size -10 Fragola Series 2000 Hose end fittings, from Summit Racing. Every engine set up is different, and it will take experimentation on what to use for your engine. Hint, buy extra fitting shapes and return the fittings you don't need. www.summitracing.com/parts/fr...
If you're in the middle of your engine build, or don't mind removing your intake to install this system, these guys have mastered this technique, check out their kit and accessories. www.precisionautomotivespecial...
Here's the latest Walk Around of the GTO, filmed by RestoMods.com • A Walk Around of my "B...
Playlists of interest;
Hydraulic Clutch and Tremec TKO/TKX install;
th-cam.com/users/playlist?list...
FiTech Fuel Injection Install;
th-cam.com/users/playlist?list...
Here's the original Hydraulic Roller Lifter Fail Inspection, and process:
• Something is still WRO...
Here's the Official Part 1, where Mike starts the preparation of Engine removal
• Pontiac V8 Camshaft Re...
Here's the start of the TREMEC installation, • How to install a Wilwo...
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5⁵⁵⁵⁵⁵⁵
If you say Stoked one more time I'm shit canning your channel ..... Your already painfully anal and really hard to watch ....As is.. but the Stoked is just more than my east coast ears can bare...
If Pontiac was still around they would have thanked you them selves lol 🤣
Thanks Tanner!
I have a 505 Aluminum Pontiac motor with Edelbrock heads, supercharged by Procharger D1X, EFI by FAST in my 1970 full weight GTO. It's Street/strip driven and driven to the track, best time 9.8@140mph. You would think with all of that aluminum you wouldn't have overheating issues, but with a 180 degree 'stat on a hot day it would idle at 195 degrees, cruise at 210-220, and after a hard run, the temp' would shoot up to 225 deg. After I made the mod in the video, it was like a dream come true. the engine idles at 180 deg, cruises at 188 deg, and after a hard run 195 deg and quickly back down to 188 deg. I was a skeptical at first while watching the video, but after previously trying a big aluminum radiator with 4-cores, the cooler water additive, and high flow water pump which did not work, I figured what the heck and decided to try it. The results speak for themselves. I must admit I am not quite sure why it works but it definitely did for me.
That's great to hear! i'm glad the trick is working for you... while it's mainly to keep the heads the same temp, front to rear, you sometimes benefit with overall cooler temps, as you've witnessed. Thanks for taking the time to leave a comment! Keep it cool!
Great followup Mike. The R&D you are doing is awesome. You are a credit to the Pontiac community.
Thanks! Much appreciated!
So why not drill and tap for a pipe to hose adapter fitting opposed to welding?
Love the old school Pontiac stuff.
Thanks Bryan!
@@FastMonty I actually have a 66 Catalina that I might try this on. Looks like a great idea. Thanks
@@bryanguthrie-ej1fb Awesome! Yeah, it certainly helps even out the heat. These guys make a kit to help... th-cam.com/users/redirect?event=video_description&redir_token=QUFFLUhqbmtNa0tRRHRoYnFGZnJhZXNYb0lJNDRyTXhWUXxBQ3Jtc0tuRVJfQmtLZk1IRkZ3cUNGYi1GMnBFWUhiaWRQbm1xZFhfYW14My1WMS1MTzQyU3N2MjlFYy1NRDRiVVBHOG9sWW9sdXBzbV90SmZvM3NzaFFNdEp3dFhyZXl1d2l6cjNOYjZQeXhJamZnT3BRRG5pZw&q=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.precisionautomotivespecialists.com%2FPontiac-Engine-Parts.html%3Ffbclid%3DIwAR1aUkBbg-nQXrCpEsew67l3uhNwO35Y60B1BnHl9-RDZhtaYQbJtGO8qrs&v=v_qUY4E33r0 Have fun!
BRAVO!
Cooler engine in the Pontiac realm will make you up there with Mr Delorean in cutting edge on the Pontiac engines!!
I Ponder a bit, about if you did a "port-matching" on All the water openings, block/heads/Intake Manifold, what affect and benefits would result in the efforts.
This was a great great find here relieving the heat issue some, that have plagued Pontiacs for ever it seems.
I feel that even a little port work, allowing reduced flow restriction would help, how much is TBD.
Haven't seen anyone do this kind of detailed scientific research like this on Pontiacs.
When I do my RAIV engine I'll definitly copy this.
Thanks! Yes, I've heard that 428 blocks have the center water chamber open to flow into the heads. (Mine are not) Maybe when I go through the next monster upgrade I'll add those too. Thanks again for the comment, and good luck on your build!
Great presentation, attention to detail and Results!! Go Poncho!!
Thanks Anthony!
Wow! I really enjoy your enthusiasm and the showing of your fabrications!
Thanks! Much appreciated!
Very clean install coupled with thorough research Mike! 👍
Thanks! Much appreciated!
Great video Mike! Keep them coming!
Thanks Michael!
Great Stuff Monty another killer video !!
Thanks Stephen!
Mike....great information and enthusiasm!
Thanks Tom!
Awesome video! I'll be adding this to the bucket list. I already T'd mine at the back of the heads and had it running to the stock return. I didn't get the results I was hoping for. This is much better!
Thanks Lance... and now you know why you weren't getting good results. Glad I could help... have fun!
Nice job, well explained!
Thanks. Much Appreciated!
Awesome video Monty
Thanks Paulie!
I love the way you test. I have mine in the top rad house going back I think I will change it to the crossover where you have yours and bump it to a 180 degree thermostat. Thanks for the good work. Love the look of your of your motor clean.
Thanks Rick! Yeah, I love to overboard, don't I? :) Thanks for the comment!
Great Mod. I am glad you followed up with this great video. Thank you.
Thanks Dan! Yeah, I had to do it... more for curiosity than anything else. Awesome results.
Great content ..keep up the good work
Thanks!
excellent work.
Thanks!
Nice work - clever setup.
Thanks!
Awesome video very cool work! 🤘🏼
Thanks, Josh!
Thank You For Your Videos !!!
Thanks Greg!
I have KRE heads and used an fittings and run each line under the intake and connect to the under side of the cross over. Works just fine.
Yep, that's the best way to do it, as I mentioned. But, if you want to retain your heater, this is the way to do it. Thanks Mark!
Glad to see this! Have a # matching 69 gto that I started and the # 8 had to get a sleeve with the rest at 60 over. Do NOT want a over heat on this motor!!!
Awesome! Great to hear you're keeping the Poncho Engine! Have fun!
This is awesome information on Pontiac engines invaluable Thank you video was very interesting
Thanks Andrew!
I've been using 4 corner cooling on my small and big block chevys for a long time, works great.
Is that what this is called? ha, ha... thanks for sharing!
Very good video of this guy would have been apart of Pontiac GM program back in the sixties he would have been a top paid engineer but they don't make Pontiacs are the engines any longer it is amazing how we continue to educate ourselves good job good video I loved it
Ha! Thanks!
Great modification!! 👍
Thanks!
Awesome video thanks
Welcome!
Excellent video! I did the same with my 451-inch Pontiac build. I just have a line coming from the back port on each head, and I drilled and tapped the crossover and ran the lines underneath the intake manifold to the crossover. I also blocked the crossover into the timing cover. We will see how it does on the street with the twin turbos. lol
Nice Shane! I too see forced induction in my future. That'll be awhile. Careful about closing off that crossover, that's how the engine cycles fluid when the thermostat is closed. Have fun!
@@FastMonty It's going to be fun for sure! Thank you for the heads up on that. I will make sure to monitor it and change it back if I need to.
@@Smcloughlin455 Sounds good! Can't wait to see it!
Awesome vid Mike, if I’m about to invest a lot of $$$ of a pair of new heads then cooling then is super important to my. Cheers 👍🏻
Welcome, Spike!
Now I know why my 69 400 would always vapor lock in the summer.
Excellent 👍 video
Of course I no longer have My 400 Pontiac. LoL
Ha! Yep, they certainly ran hotter than normal. Sorry you don't have that 400 anymore. ha, ha... thanks for the comment!
Your one bright young man. Than You.
Thanks Tom! And, thanks for calling me "young", ha, ha...
This looks like a viable fix for a warm running Pontiac. Cooling yours by at least 14 degrees overall.
For sure... again, this experiment started with how to maintain consistent temps, from front to rear. Ambient conditions were 6 to 9 degrees lower than the initial video... but, it worked at maintaining some consistency, which is nice. Thanks for the comment!
This is great information for guys with engines built and in the car! I have a previous AC car that has been converted to heat only. No matter what I've done with the cooling system, it runs at 194 degrees. I'm wondering if re-routing my heater core hoses to the water crossover may buy me some added cooling.
An option if you've got the engine our for a refresh, building a new one etc., you can also do the 421 SD cooling mod. Early heads and the Edelbrock Aluminum heads are already drilled for this and most head gaskets have the hole in the correct place. You can use that head gasket as a guide to drill what is typically a 3/8" hole in the deck between and below the center cylinders. Many people will then often plug the front three water passages at the front of the engine. What this does is provide necessary restriction to stop cold water from exiting the system early and forcing it to the rear of the heads where it's needed. You also reduce head temps between the siamesed exhaust ports, extending head gasket and exhaust valve life.
Thanks... yeah, I've seen that trick, and totally agree with it. As far as head gaskets go, you're right. If you have the standard "universal" head gasket, that center "steam hole" between the middle cylinders is open, and susceptible to premature failure because it's really close to the cylinder wall, and the coolant can boil on contact, which erodes the gasket, making it's way to the cylinder. (It's happened to me, and I still have that gasket as a reminder) For those that do NOT want to drill out that steam hole, or just replacing gaskets... Butler Performance makes a gasket with that hole sealed in the gasket, as well as several other of the larger "universal" coolant holes sealed too. Highly recommended. Thanks for sharing, as usual!
Nice welding Mike
Ha! Almost super nice, no leaks, which is the main goal. Ha, ha... thanks for the comment!
Awesome second time watching this. We will be building a 400 stroker.
Thanks! Congrats on your build... if you're not using your heater core, check out www.precisionautomotivespecialists.com/ they make a manifold, and a full blown kit to do this trick. Keep us posted!
Thank you for your knowledge and videos USA 🇺🇸 USA 🇺🇸
Thanks Patrick!
When I bought my 1972 LeMans out of Arizona it came to me with the heater core bypassed with the hose coming out of passenger side head just re-routed back to the timing cover. Me being a neatness freak I decided to eliminate the hose and plug that heater hose nipple at the rear of the head. After I did that the running temp became more erratic and prone to running warm on a hot day. I ran it that way for a couple years but after thinking about it I decided there was probably a reason it was designed that way and re-plumbed it so the rear of the head is connected to the timing cover now the car always runs 180 degrees no matter what the outside temp is. My car is a factory A/C car and I am not aware of any valve that would control the flow depending on if the A/C is on or not there is simply two nipples from the heater core sticking through the firewall.
Yup, that works... as I pointed out in the prior cooling video. It works on the passenger head, because there's a restriction plate in the output nipple. The issue is your Driver side head was being neglected, and is running 30 degrees hotter. That's where most head gaskets fail. Anyway, this was the next level of porting both heads to the crossover, to be pulled through the thermostat, instead of pushed back into the engine, creating more heat. Thanks for the comment!
Yeah I I did the divorced coolant mod and added coolant lines back of the intake. Back in the 90's lol Had a magazine with a article about a retired nasa engineers 64' tempest. It was the most modded car ever seen on a budget. But looked totally stock Funny I'm you making the hose and a/n fittings today. Yesterday I Installed that exact kit on my Camaro. But It was oil return line from the turbo so I Drilled into the pan like everyone else then used j/b weld and went fine . but now I'm afraid to start the car so next week ill drop the pan and make sure it's clean lol.
Ha! That's awesome! Yeah, I'd freak out too, with the oil pan concerns. Thanks for the comment!
Great stuff man. Anyone with a pontiac could use this info
Thanks! Exactly why I put it out there... thanks again.
Interesting. l like the data tracking. Otherwise this might be a bit of guesswork. Coolant pressure is an interesting concept as well in these types of scenarios (as you point out). Autometer makes a coolant pressure guage which could be used to experiment with this type of mod. Cool video.
Thanks Roger... what I would love to have is a flow meter, to put on that heater hose. I briefly searched for one, they're wayyyy too expensive. Thanks for the comment!
Monty..as a man who loves gtos, I really like see u get the spoiler for the goat, just seems like a simple way to look faster 😆 lol
Ha! Thanks... my Dad bought this car brand new, and does NOT like the spoiler. So, the spoiler probably isn't going to happen. Thanks!
You are my number one Pontiac guy incredible I will mimic that Cooling…. biggest problem with PONTIAC… V8 I And then do it againcan drive cross country and back
well I'm definitely going to try this modification. I need all the coolant capacity for this 455 down here in Texas heat.
Yeah, you do! Ha! Thanks for the comment!
@@FastMonty by the way Mike what mechanical fuel pump where you using when you had that setup.
@@transam4555 It was a Carter, without return. I still have it, if you want to buy it from me. :)
Monty, reminds me of the older (55 - 64) Pontiac engines and the way the coolant flowed through the heads! There was an article on reverse flow cooling of Pontiac engines and I believe it was in an old issue of High Performance Pontiac magazine! You might want to look that up if you can. They had some really good results with that! Sorry, don't remember what year or issue!
Thanks Heath... I remember reading that article too. A lot of Pontiac fans wish they carried reverse flow into the 60s and 70s. Someone else pointed out that Chevrolet started using reverse flow on Corvettes in the early 90's. Cool stuff! (Pun intended)
Awesome
Thanks Mike!
I see what your talking about. Precision Automotive Specialists has that 2 port adaptor for Pontiac for under thermostat housing.
It wont except a thermostat been about a yr when i asked if they would make one but i have not seen it yet
Ohhhh, they do exist! Looks like for racing only, as a thermostat won't fit? Not sure, but glad to see I'm on the right path. Thanks for sharing!
@@stevenb3027 Thanks Steven... I see it too... cool idea. Glad I'm not the only crazy one. ha, ha...
That look like the hard way to do it. I would put a T in one of the thermostat bungs on the crossover, reinstall the two sending units on the T and run the new return into the unused bung.
That could work... but, my way looks better. Ha, ha... thanks!
11:10 Slipping the AN fitting's nut on before cutting the tubing to length is often an option that allows some practice on the end of the extra tubing you'll be cutting off.
Agreed, do one end, attach to it's end point, then measure for the other end. Thanks!
I would have tried to run the line threw the valley pan. But Great job. Nothing sounds like a Pontiac.
Totally possible, but I wanted to retain my heater box. Thanks!
I'm in Florida, winter is just right for me. I'd rather take a loss of HP, and have AC, but that's just me. Thanks for showing what anyone can do with a Poncho...@@FastMonty
I heard that... I have A/C too. But, rarely use it cuz my windows are down all the time, listening to that Poncho music. Ha, ha... stay cool out there!@@igotatan1
Install a heater coil in front of the radiator and a valve that reroutes the back coolant between the cabin and radiator coil. In hot summer route it to the outside coil and winter route it to the cabin. I need to do that to my car to keep the cabin coil from heating up even though Its blocked by air flow it can still have a little get in the air conditioning and slightly warm the cold air.The heater core on my engine is connected to the rear hot water outlet and does not have a heater control valve so water flows anytime the engine runs. The air damper is what controls the air temperature. My heads are equal temp
I like it! Thanks for the comment!
I have a 77 t / a. 461
4 x heads...10.0 : 1 cr.....I have factory fan . Rad. Shroud...I run a 160 ° thermostat with 3 1/8 " holes....I run distilled water & Purple ice additive...never above 170 ° on hottest day in traffic... at the flashlight drags running back to back 8 or 10 runs I never shut it off....I built the car old school trying to stay simple as possible...it's just a suggestion....I'm no expert.. it works for me....BTW great channel 👍
That's awesome! Thanks for sharing!
Not bad, but I am going to make a video where I tap for AN fittings and run 6AN hose under the intake and to the back side of the crossover (instead of 10AN and the ball valve). I want to run the factory shutoff valve to my heater core, but I haven't figured that part out yet.
Yup, I like that idea too... but, plumbing to the heater core might get messy, which is why I went the route I did. Have fun!
I've never owned a 2 piece Intake like you have. Too exotic for an example for the average person.
Neither did I, until I cut it off, and made it myself. Not too exotic, just trying to be creative and inspire others. thanks!
What was your main reason for doing that. Intake runner alinement?
@@gregmason6302 Alignment, ease of changing intakes, if ever needed, and the other rumor is that it keeps some of the heat of the coolant away from the intake. Thanks!
Can you please make a video explaining how you have the rear Heather hose connected and how you AN the cap on the water pump, after you installed the hose into the front crossover.
Those exist... check out this one first; th-cam.com/video/DWvVkrGQDsw/w-d-xo.htmlsi=Mt61sfyfbMViHNv8 Keep in mind you don't have to use AN fittings in the rear, when standard nipples and a rubber hose will give you a lot more flexibility. I added an AN fitting on the timing cover in a previous video... here; th-cam.com/video/Qx-5EnEnynE/w-d-xo.htmlsi=3Uirj2pm28MdQNeN Thanks!
Hey Bud,
Good to see someone else who believes in this mod..
I’ve completed a few of these mods to variouse engines EG Ford Cleveland and Windsor engines and yes it works well ..
Dependant on engine speeds you may have to provide more bypass to the water pump which I have also achieved and has maintained water temps throughout the rpm range..
Vary little people believe in this if only they new what the temps where at the back of the engine as opposed to the front..
Great job
Thanks Anthony! I just wanted to see if the rumor was true... and it was. I had no idea it worked for other types of engines too. Thanks for dropping a comment!
@@FastMonty
Sure does. We actually call them Bleeds in Australia.. An old engineer discovered this mod throughout multiple engines in the late 70’s.. Those who have witnessed and believe in it still carry on with the mod..
There’s a great right up in an old magazine which he talks about Nucleate boiling which happens in the cooling system at the hottest part of the engine which is the rear exhaust valves..
Happy to forward it through if you like…
@@anf302 Would love to... shoot me an email. fastmontysgarage at gmail Thanks!
As we Pontiac owners know they tend to run warm, my newly rebuilt engine is running 165-170 Im thinking the reason is 1. Evans coolant 2. aluminum radiator with 2-1" rows, 3. flex fan, and posibly aluminum heads. One thing about aluminum heads is I get a tiny bit of cooland where they connect to CI block maybe a 1/2 teaspoon which I hear is normal. i havent had it on a really hot day yet though.
Thanks for sharing Dan... that's a great temp range for our engines. You have a coolant leak? That doesn't sound normal to me.
@@FastMonty yes very little, drove the car today didt see anything I've read guys having same setup that when you put aluminum to old CI you apt to get leaks. Its very little didnt see any today before or after I drove it I have 380 miles on the rebuild. I decided to go with Tri Power and having a heck of a time with running rich, really rich. Trying to eliminate supply obstacles see if they are bad fuel pump regulator etc Thanks
@@frekkledipped Yeah, I hear you, but I have Aluminum heads and original Cast Iron block. No Leaks. Hopefully it seals itself up. Sorry to hear about the TriPower set up issues... is it standard or Fuel Injected?
@@FastMonty FI on Tri Power can it be done? Never heard of it I'll ask around the forum good idea. The leak is at the crossover looks like the bolt attach 3-4 drops sits in the dip of the connection sometimes its there sometimes not. Not really sure how I could fix it hate to remove the whole setup for a few drops. I bought a timing light so Im going to start therre for the rich problem if thats OK thn another reg #3 and this one is brand new Holley.
@dan roach yup, FiTech has tripower Fuel Injection.
I bought a new heater core, then repaired the old one. I then add the old core to the return hose off of the new core, mounted it near the radiator it highly reduces the temperature while drive or parked. My 400 GTO stay around 170.
Ain't nothing wrong with having more radiators... that's why the C8 corvette has FOUR of them. Ha, ha... Keep it Cool, Scott.
What is the recommended operating temperature
@@michaelerickson1518 Great question... a high performance carbureted engine should use a 165 thermostat. If you have EFI, it's recommended to be around 190 to 195. Hope that helps.
Being a old school Pontiac motor builder, I find this very interesting. I know that as you increase the deration of the cam shafts over 305 dur. the water temp in traffic goes through the roof quick. I like the idea of pulling hot water off the BACK of the heads, but I think your working to hard ( and spending too much cash) to do it. I like the idea of 2 lines from the back of the heads to 2 old school cheap rubber heater hose lines back to the upper area of the radiator with 2 hose nipples in it plus 2 ball valves you set with a heat gun for flow so you can control how cool it is running. To be honest I don't think you can get it too cool with the longer Duration cams I like to run, so the ball valves might not be needed at all.
Thanks Mike... yeah, so many options, so little time... ha, ha... Gonna be experimenting with electric fan sizing, and radiator core sizes next. Thanks for the comment!
@@FastMonty Many have issues with Pontiacs in heavy stop & go traffic with overheating, I like this idea alot , my main thing is keep it simple & price down. As for fan, I run a big belt drive clutch fan off the water pump, the bigger the better.
@@hydroy1 Agreed. I have seen an adapter that would go underneath the thermostat housing, to connect more hoses to it. Which would cut down the labor, and expenses. It's all in the spirit of finding the solution. Thanks again!
@@FastMonty To be honest, I only use a water restrictor in the thermostat housing to slow the water flow, no guts in the thermostat, open free flow is good for a extra 15 degrees cooler. I never run my Pontiac in cold weather so there is no need for one in my opinion..
@@hydroy1 Good stuff, Mike. I'll probably add this to my to-do experiment list. Thanks!
I think the fastest way is to T off the coolant sensor without putting holes. Making T from the sensor will have you a reading from the coolant from back to front.
Yup, that could work... to your point, you'd probably be reading the rear head temp, assuming the temp probe is fully submerged too. Thanks for the comment!
I make the same with my LS but got it from the uper hose the return
Ahhh, interesting. Thanks for sharing!
I really like that thermostat housing! Where might a guy be able to find one?
Thanks! Been a while since I got it... might try Butler Performance. Good luck!
Thank you for all your videos and information. You have a nice setup and I noticed, what appears to be a -20, AN thermostat housing. Can you please tell me who makes that or where can I get that from? I'm building a 400 and would like to get that setup but can't seem to find one. Thanks again for your help.
Thanks Rick... check out this video I did about the top hose. In the description are all the parts I used. th-cam.com/video/6WByB9khrOw/w-d-xo.html After reviewing that, I added a step for the AN hose assembly, which I cover for the lower hose... th-cam.com/video/Qx-5EnEnynE/w-d-xo.html Have fun!
Circle track racers have been plumbing the rear of the heads to the front cross over for decades
Good to know, MB. I know I'm not re-inventing anything here, just trying to prove the myth, and improve my engine. Thanks for the comment!
Great video! So did you leave everything on the backside of the motor the same including the ball value shut off. If you could redo everything would you do it the same way or would you do it different. You given me some great ideals. Thanks!!
Thanks Robert! Yes, I'd do it the same... purely because I can still run my heater. Long story, but I have a three way valve after the ball valve, that diverts coolant into the heater core, or bypass it altogether. Thanks for the comment, and good luck!
Want to move ’72 GTO upper radiator hose from passing over valve cover. Love your setup. Can you detail Parts involved?
Yup, check this video out... all parts should be in the description. th-cam.com/video/6WByB9khrOw/w-d-xo.html
@@FastMonty Amazing! Thank you so much
@@jeffreystid678 Welcome!
You have a beautiful ride Monty.
What size hose did you use on the back of your heads? I'm doing the bypass thing on my 454.
Thanks they're -10's. Just pay attention to how much flow you get. Might be too much. Have fun!
Love the channel! For your original rear head water crossover, I saw that you had just found a hose online that looked right. Could you please share that number so I could use the same one?
Thanks!
Thanks Phillip! I actually still have that hose... I don't have the link to the part number, but on the side of it, it says "Made in Mexico, 14321A SNFA15B I briefly tried googling it, but couldn't find anything. Good luck!
Welp, found this one... pretty close. www.summitracing.com/parts/ado-14321s
@@FastMonty Thanks for digging into this! I'll check it out and give it a try.
I found a multi port thermostat housing and curious if I run my tee off line directly to it would lower the temp a few degrees ?
You mean instead of welding a fitting, like I did? It will have the same affect. Just keep in mind, this method is to keep the front to rear temperature more equal. It does not lower the overall temp. Hope that helps!
You may not be familiar with the 55 - 58 and maybe 59 versions of the Pontiac V8. They had a unique reverse-flow cooling system in which the water was pumped into the heads, rather than the blocks, and flows down from those heads to the blocks and through openings at the front of the blocks to the timing cover to the water pump, then the radiator. Do you think that cooling system could be adapted to the later engines, at least the 389?
Thanks Michael, yeah I'm familiar with the reverse flow style... if I'm not mistaken, it's a ton of work to adapt that to 60's and 70's blocks.. I think the internal plumbing is different too... ie, cross hole ports from the heads to block, etc... not a complete expert, but know it's not easy. Thanks for the comment!
Excellent work as usual Monty. What are the 3 switches on the crossover? I know 1 is for Temp gage.
Thanks Steven! Good question... I'm addicted to Temp Gauges. Stock Gauge, Mechanical Autometer gauge, and FiTech temp gauge. Thanks for the comment!
@@FastMonty I think I'm going to do a line from back to front on each head. I will need to tap an extra hole in the crossover. (only 2 on Kuffman crossover)
@@stevenlynch9947 Sounds awesome to me!
We're did you get the an hose and fittings for the radiator.
Autoplumb... here's the video about it. th-cam.com/video/6WByB9khrOw/w-d-xo.html Thanks!
I Have pushed to 650 Hp Cast Iron Heads RAIV 614 Heads.
Bone stock cooling system layout.
Even in Illinois Hot Summer 100F I could maintain 160F steady driving.
That's awesome... as previously stated, I was chasing the rumor that the rear of the heads are hotter, than the front. Which was true. Glad to hear you have it figured out... thanks.
B&R Racing. i read your comment about 650 HP out of cast iron heads with interest. do you know somewhere i could get some Pontiac iron heads ported? thanks, john
@@johnbecay6887 I ported my own D-ports. 520 Hp pump gas 91-93.
As far as 650 + Hp iron You want to use 1969-1970 Pontiac RAIV.
1968 RAII can be used.
1973-74 SD455 can be used also.
Prices will be Very High on Factory Pontiac Round Port Heads. $5,000- 10,000. Everyone knows how rare they are and power potential they have.
500 Hp ported D,-ports practical pump gas especially with sky high fuel prices
@@brracing7861 Hi BRE racing Pontiacs. i am sorry to take so long to reply. i have been travelling and am just now finding some free time. here's my back story.
i have a 1965 Pontiac GTO street/strip car. i don't own a trailer. the car drives everywhere it goes. it has a 455, stock block, stock crank stock ported 7k3 heads. they flow about 225 cfm on the intake at 28 inches. it runs a flat tappet cam, not a roller. i race at bandimere in Morrison CO. a typical summer night at Bandimere sees the air at a density altitude of 8200-8400 feet. anything below 8000 DA is considered good air. the car runs 11.90s.
what i am looking for.-- i would like to find another 3-4 tenths in the car. i would like to run 11 50s-11.60s in good air. i don't want to cage the car so NHRA limit of 11.50 will be as quick as it can go. i would like to find someone who can port factory iron D port heads to about 260 cfm. 6x-4 heads have the right ccs for my engine, as do 7k3s. 7k3s lack the end header bolt holes which makes them more difficult. i want about 87-90 ccs after milling. at altitude where i live i can get away with 10.25-10.50 compression on 91 octane pump gas.
many people on hearing the above tell me, "Just put aluminum heads on it. Problem solved."
I tell them "you don't understand." Factory heads making good power are a thing of beauty.
Do you know of anyone who can help me achieve these goals? .
you can reach me at allpro23@gmail.com
thank you for your time, john.
@@johnbecay6887 Some of the advantages of Factory Pontiac V8 iron heads is there are no pressed in valve seats to come loose and cause complete engine destruction.
No restricted poor oil drain back to the engine block oil pan.
No water cooling passages issues to cause hot spots internal like many report Street drivinh with Aluminum heads.
No China Aluminum used any it's pure 100% USA PONTIAC
I like msc vs McMaster Carr same idea
Agreed! Thanks for the comment!
very informative video and sharp engine detail. if you wanted to provide for a heater, how would you plumb the rear of both heads independently back to the water crossover? it seems if the pass. head provides for the heater alone, it would be delivering cooler water back to the cross over. thanks
Good question, John... you'd have to run the Tee'd line to the heater core, then to the crossover. Depending on your model, you may have constant flow through the core, which is easy. BUT, if you have a switch, like A/C... there's a valve that closes when A/C is on, etc... you'll have to get creative with your plumbing. I have a three way valve, that I engineered. One side of the valve bypasses the core. When the heater is turned on, the valve directs coolant to the core. Moral of the story, it can be done. :) As a hint, check out the valve that Vintage Air sells... that's what I modified. Thanks, and good luck!
@@FastMonty Thanks for the prompt informative reply. a 3 way valve would do the trick. it would isolate the heater out of the loop when racing, for example, allowing for maximum tuning potential. take care, john
@@johnbecay6887 Yes! That's why I did it.... Thanks John, and have fun!
Nice job. We used to partially fill the block and have head gaskets made that flowed more into the heads at the back of the engine. We also blocked off the transfer between the manifold and pump because we found it caused less than optimal port alignment. This allowed us to balance out the temps and still be legal for NHRA Stock Eliminator.
Ohhh, good stuff. Thanks for sharing!
Ive watched this video a few times, hard to tell but I assume that with this new set up, you hace blocked off small water outlet on the timing cover?
Good question... but no, that bypass hole is still operational, and needs to be when the thermostat is closed. Thanks!
Its Neat experimentation your doing with your Pontiac V8 cooling system.
I have never had to do anything fancy with my Pontiac V8 455 engines.
Its Stock coolant flow layouts as Pontiac Engineers designed.
All I did and still do is slow the Water pump speed down with Large Diameter 455 specific water pump pulley and use a Factory Pontiac V8 Water pump rebuilt with the Factory Cast Iron impeller.
I can maintain water temps 160F or 180F steady using 160F or 180F T-stats.
That's awesome... yeah, I was just chasing the rumor/myth that the rear of the heads are higher temp than the front, which turned out to be true in my case. Granted after we all start changing components, pump, heads, radiator, even hose diameters... things change... and over time, no one has the same engine anymore. :) Thanks for sharing your setup!
Seen on FB market Pontiac intake, believe a Victor, he had the cross over cut off but had 2 AN lines coming off of them facing rear.
I'm thinking he did the LS steam line thing, but have no idea.
But I really like the idea of the crossover in the back, that should fix everything?
Not sure about how much work putting a crossover in the back entails... but, the crossover you found on FB, with the two AN ports, is exactly what I've done. He we just running a line from the back of each head, directly to each port, underneath the intake. I'd buy it, just to have that crossover. Have fun!
At 6:00 it seems that it would have been easier to plumb your coolant return hose into one of the ports already provided on the crossover, like where your temperature sensor is located instead of drilling the crossover and welding in the fitting.
Yeah, that would've worked.. .but, wouldn't look as cool. :) Thanks for the comment!
@@FastMonty Would also upset coolant temp sensing because not much mixing would have occurred at that point
@@rossbeck1595 Not a huge concern, as the source is virtually the same temperature, as we proved with the temp readings on the heads. If the source was a greatly different temperature, we could consider temps not mixing correctly.
Love your videos...can you tell me why you changed your intake manifold from the RPM to the Torker 2 ? I have a 1979 Formula Firebird and don't think I can run the RPM in my stock hood so thinking about the Torker 2 because of the less height.
Thanks Terry! Yeah, I'm going to port injection soon. (It's plumbed for it, just not converted yet) But, yes, it's shorter too... as you probably noticed from my "crossover removal" video. Good luck on your build!
Hi. Where did you get the AN fitting equipped thermostat housing?
Great question.. I go through it on this video... th-cam.com/video/6WByB9khrOw/w-d-xo.html
Cool, (get it) always loved my everyday drive Pontiac cause when the outside temp is -5F and you have to be at work in 10 min the Pontiac starts and in six blocks or so the heater and of course the defroster starts working. Pontiac designed it the way they did for a very good reason. (or else dumb luck) Serious hotrodders need this more than they need a heater that works quickly. Of course almost none of the Pontiac v8s are everyday drivers in Nebraska and other cold winter places now days.
Thanks Glen! Yeah, and my defroster still works. :) Thanks for the comment.
how are you measuring these temperatures at these locations?
Good question. Laser thermometer. Thanks!
I was thinking of trying your trick of separating water crossover on a Mickey Thompson dual quad cross ram that only fits his heads. No markings at all on intake. Looks like a early prototype. Is this a bad idea?
Nothing's a bad idea... until it is. ha, ha.... closely examine the top and bottom for any hidden cavities... including your heads.. they might have a hidden opening not shown on mind. Good luck!
aren't the rear ports normally pressed in? do the aluminum heads come with threaded nipple ports?
That's right, Russ... stock heads have bare bores, and need to have the nipples pressed/RTV'd in place. After market heads are typically threaded with a 3/4 NPT.
Hey Monty! Great channel and always glad to see when people keep true Pontiac power! So I have a 65 tempest that I just put a 400 in bored 40 over, port and polished intake and heads, mild cam, 750cfm QFT carb, ceramic headers, aluminum radiator, 3250cfm electric fan and a cast water pump. But the problem I’m running into is it runs 200+ temp and climbs pretty quick. Doesn’t matter if I’m driving or sitting still it just climbs. I was going to do the head crossover and then saw this video. Could I get a thermostat house with the extra nipple on it and run it off that? Willing to try anything at the moment
Good stuff Andrew... Firstly, welcome to the channel. Secondly, I understand your pain. Of course, every engine is different. If I were you, I would tackle the 200+ temp issue first. (This head crossover trick is mainly to maintain front to rear temps, less so for overall cooling, but does help) We need to focus on how to keep your temps under 200. If you still want to go down the path of doing the head crossover, yes you can port directly to the thermostat. One of the comments on this video has a link... I think? The experiment I've been doing is monitoring how fast the engine cools at idle, when the fan kicks on. What temperature does that happen? (Oh, how are you measuring the temp, with the stock gauge? Or, do you have a mechanical back up, like me? th-cam.com/video/NHB2KgdpNvQ/w-d-xo.html) Assuming your fans do work correctly, I'd then focus on the water pump, and radiator. You have the stock cast impeller? I would swap that out for a FlowCooler pump, or make the ultimate leap and install an Electric Pump, which I have yet to do. What radiator are you using?
@@FastMonty Thanks! I’m running a brand new 3core aluminum radiator from Ames. Can’t remember the exact brand. My dad had a flow cooler water pump but when he got it tuned by west tech the shaft literally flew off of it, so I’ve been leery of flow cooler since then. I’ll look into the electric ones tho! I have a mechanic temp gauge, which I ran two for a bit to make sure it was reading correctly and it was unfortunately.
Btw if you free the weekend of August 20th and 21st you should drive up to Tehachapi. We have a yearly car show called Thunder on the mountain. At noon everyone fires their engine up and makes some Thunder! I’ll be there with my Pontiac, hopefully two more Pontiacs from my family and our friends 63 GP will be there. Always some sweet Pontiacs out there.
@@andrewgeorge6625 Ohhh, that's crazy that the Flow Cooler failed. Did you happen to change any of the pulley diameters? I think Edelbrock has a water pump with an improved impeller design? Tin Indian and Butler Performance also have closer fitting divider plates that would help. Let me know what ends up fixing it... That car show sounds fun... quite the haul for me though. We'll see! Keep me posted on the heat issue.
@@FastMonty So update. Went ahead and got a flowkooler to try. Installed beautiful and had paper thin clearance between the divider plate and blades. Running good but still says running over 200+ with it creeping up pass 220. So when running we checked couple spots with IR gun. The top of the radiator says it’s 159, hoses were 174, my heads were 204 and right next to the sensor for my gauge said 194. So looks like my gauge went bad? Which is odd cause it was working beautifully before changing water pumps. So going to change out gauge and see if it reads correctly.
@@andrewgeorge6625 Good decision with the FlowKooler. And, great point about the gauge. (That's why I now have THREE points of measurement... stock gauge, mechanical Autometer gauge, and the gauge used for my FiTech system). I would test the sending unit first, and make sure they didn't use Teflon tape on those threads. Let us know!
Question? I have my heater hose bypassed back to the water pump . Issue is with no thermostat the engine is building pressure as if it’s over heating! Head gaskets are new as well . Changed them thinking that was the issue. Engine still wants to over heat or build pressure. Any help will be appreciated. New radiator as well .
What's the pressure? Are you using a water based coolant?
@@FastMonty 50/50 I re connected the heater core and seems to be better . I’d like to bypass the heater core maybe a cross over to the driver side head?
With no thermostat and running after a while the upper radiator hose builds pressure as if the thermostat is stuck closed but there isant one ?? That’s when I hooked the heater core back up and that seemed to stop the pressure from building but i believe there has to be another way to bypass the heater core .
@@AdventuresBound The top radiator hose is pulling water from the engine... it's ok if it builds pressure, like around 15psi. Have you measured the pressure at the cap yet? What's the temp?
Thank you for these videos, I have a 69 firebird that I'm getting ready to drive again after 20 yrs. My question is , since I'm just putting the stock 350 Pontiac engine back in .... can I tap thread the stock cast iron heads to do this modification? Also I'm installing a vintage air a/c system on it so how would I route the hoses on the back of the heads? Thanks again for these videos.
Congrats on getting er going again. Can you add a nipple? yes. The driver's side head has a freeze plug in that location. You can knock that out, and add a nipple, just like the passenger side. (Make sure there are restrictors in those nipples) Vintage Air, is another issue. I too have Vintage Air, and had to make a custom three way valve so there's always coolant running from the back of the heads to the timing cover. When I turn the heater on, the valve switches and flows through the heater core. No, I don't have a video on that, yet... as I will probably re-design it. Maybe Vintage Air makes a new valve to do just that? (I bought mine 10 years ago) Let me know what you figure out...
@@FastMonty thank you for replying back and for the info . I will let you know how it comes out. Thanks again.
Are -6 an hose sufficient for bypass hose ?
Not ideal... but, it's better than nothing. :)
Why didnt you just use one of the 3 threaded location on top and relocate the temp sensor to the head? ports there as well.
You could T off any of the cross over ports, yes. Not as cool as adding my own AN port, is it? ha, ha... (There are no ports in the head itself) Thanks!
Plumb it under the intake manifold. That will keep it all contained within the engine.
Yup, that works too... but, I still wanted my heater box to work. You can't do that when plumbing directly under the intake. Thanks!
@@FastMonty 👍
Thanks!@@georgejackson408
I know this is an older video, but is there any way I can get a list of the AN parts and size of fittings you used to build the lines from the back to the front for your head cooling trick. Your listing information says you give a list of parts used in this video but I can't find the list anywhere. I would like to make this upgrade to my 71 Pontiac Lemans 455. Any help would be awesome. Thanks
Good question Tom... and thanks for making me update the Description, I added the following;
For Edelbrock Heads, the front/rear large water ports are 3/4 NPT. If you have stock heads, I suggest using standard 5/8" rubber hose, and standard press in nipples, like this one; butlerperformance.com/i-24452843-butler-pontiac-heater-hose-fitting-press-in-aau-p132n.html
For AN Hoses, I used Size -10 Fragola Series 2000 Hose end fittings, from Summit Racing. Every engine set up is different, and it will take experimentation on what to use for your engine. Hint, buy extra fitting shapes and return the fittings you don't need. www.summitracing.com/parts/fra-229006-bl
If you're in the middle of your engine build, or don't mind removing your intake to install this system, these guys have mastered this technique, check out their kit and accessories. www.precisionautomotivespecialists.com/Pontiac-Engine-Parts.html?fbclid=IwAR1aUkBbg-nQXrCpEsew67l3uhNwO35Y60B1BnHl9-RDZhtaYQbJtGO8qrs
Thank you so much. I really like the way yours turned out@@FastMonty
Thanks Tom! @@TomsPicks
Hi! want to ask. I'm also have Pontiac V8 400 engine. What radiator and what fans you use on your car? Because on my car i have one fan with 4000 cfm, and basically it's working all the time. If i turn off the fan, even i'm driving, engine still overheat. No leaks to cooling system, also have both heads working in circle.
Great question... I currently have a BeCool radiator set up with Twin fans. I am just about to replace that whole set up, so stay tuned because I'll be doing a side by side test with the BeCool system, and a Cold Case system in the next month or so.... I'm not happy to hear that while driving it'll still overheat... that's concerning. Mine likes to go 70 mph, with the fans off.
Getting all my parts together for this but the one thing I’m looking to clarify on here, do you have the tee’d lines going into the heater core and then out to the crossover with the timing cover inlet capped off now or are they just looping straight into the front of the crossover with no heater lines hooked up?
You can do either way... mine is running through my heater core. You could also install a three way bypass valve before the heater, for winter time. :) Thanks for the comment!
@@FastMonty definitely makes more sense than dumping it back in the timing cover. So do you just have the port in the timing cover capped off or is it being used for something else now?
@@steffan10000 Yeah, it's capped. I went pretty fast through that section, but since I have an AN fitting on there, I was able to use an AN cap. Hope that helps.
Hey how about running it through the heater but venting it to the outside
Ummm, not so sure draining the coolant is a good idea to keep the heat down. :) Unless I miss understood?
I meant just turn on the heater and vent to the outside. Don't need heat in the summer . I've turned on My heater before at the track when things got a little hot.
@Greg Mason ohhh gotcha. Yeah, that would work. Where there's a will there's a way. :)
so are you just not running the return line from the heater core to timing cover at all then directly to the intake crossover instead?
That's correct!
@@FastMonty would this theory still work if you ran directly from the rear of the head directly to the crossover as you did here basically eliminating the heater core? curious on your opinion
@@jackscott1386 Yes sir! I mentioned that in the video... I've seen guys run a line directly from the back of each head, underneath the manifold, and ported into the crossover. Have fun!
Mc Master Carr or MSC. both are the place to get the things that you need that are otherwise hard to find.
Yup! McMaster is the first Amazon.. .well, for fasteners, and everything else you need the next morning. Ha, ha... thanks for the comment!
@@FastMonty
What caught my attention was that you are working on an old " Poncho"... I love those things and I'm always interested in what somebody is doing with one. Good content !
Yeah, I'm trying to keep the car "mostly" original, but modernize it. Like a RestoMod, but without an LS... ha! Thanks again!@@phillipthethird42
@@FastMonty
If you LS it, I won't be a fan any longer.
Definitely on my list of things NOT to do. Ha, ha... @@phillipthethird42
Why are you running so many temp sensors in the existing bungs? 1 for efi, 1 for guages, and 1 for electric coolant fans?
Good question Tom... One for EFI, which also controls the fans. One for the Stock Temp gauge. One for a Mechanical Gauge, which is redundancy for me, cuz I don't trust the old school Sending unit gauge. (I could probably have done without the stock gauge, in lieu of using one of those ports, but that wouldn't have been as cool looking... lol) Thanks!