Is taking 4 measurements in a bottom bracket the definition of someone who knows about carbon or the definition of someone who knows how to use a ruler?!?!?
@@thewattlife A Carbon Expert would not necessarily check for alignment or measure tolerances, but I came into this video expecting someone to show NDT-ing of the fram the frame with x-ray or ultrasound to check for voids, in the layup, uniform wall thicknesses, excess resin, wrinkles , presence of other materials such as foam or fiberglass, assessment of the joints etc. Something like Raoul Luesher does. I agree that this was just a quick visual inspection
Truly interesting insights. Clearly he has a lot of knowledge. Don’t know what some people (other comments) expected. Yes the frame could be x-rayed and so on, but I think Chris gave a good amount of explanation and expertise to get a fair impression of the frame. Thanks for the video!
did you actually weight yours? my SLR madone 58cm is about 350grams heavier than they claimed otherwise my build would have been around 6.150g. impressive that he actually shows the claimed weight right here unless its a ultra ultra light preproduction model and the ones we all will get end up being another 200g heavier or 300-350 heavier with a metallic paint job... hopefully it doesnt ride like a wet noodle like my Time ADH did.
@@thewattlife yeah I was talking to DC6500 about his SLR weight, I saw your scale in the vid obviously, if your going weight weenie build consider using the tape I run th-cam.com/users/shortsUo50zoE37kE?feature=share
People need to stop obsessing with grams. You need a bike to climb mountains? Fit bigger cassette. Or smaller chainrings. Or both. 300 grams lighter won’t help you much. 36t cassette will.
One more minute in and it’s painful what he’s saying. Does not know what he’s talking about. So in the 2 minutes of listing to him. 1 the foam is only ever used on a joint not through the frame as a whole. The frame in his hand is made as one complete unit. Yes is a complex moulding process, but much better. He also talks about the foam expanding with the pressure and the excess resin coming out. 1 foam still isn’t used Like that but he’s trying to talk about resin transfer like how Time frames are made. 99% of frames use prepreg carbon Other methods include, tubes and rapped . Festka bikes and Sarto are made like that, then Time bikes use resin transfer which is almost unique to them. Poss the new 3T frames made in Italy are made the same way. Not sure on that one Plus the tubes and lugged like some of the older colnagos . Plus he clearly doesn’t know most decent frames use a EPS mould to rap the carbon round. Then to the inflate it inside the steel mould to the prefect shape of the frame. And no the BB alinement is done in the moulding not machined after as Hambini wouldn’t have a purpuse in life If those were machined after etc 😂😂😂 I’m going to have to watch thos nonsense later 😂😂 please ask winspace themselves if I’m right And regarding bikes all the carbon know how on lay ups etc is all done by the factories. Not the nonsense you hear about over here in the west .
@thewattlife winspace don't make the sl8 however it is definitely made in xiamen. The carbon layup. It's then shipped to Taiwan for paint, packaging and export due to the tariff situation with cuntmerica
It's unfortunate that Europe, with the exception of Time in Slovakia, who uses resin transfer while everyone else uses prepreg, lost the manufacturing know how for such things. When's the last time that guy walked a factory floor in China to see how frames really are made these days? It would be very interesting, however, to watch him build the bike and mention what he puts on each contact point and why, because most people who build their own frames don't know whether to grease or not, what grease and why, and so on. Most of the factories that make bikes don't actually ride bikes, and if they do, doing 100w isn't the same as riding alpine mountain passes with 80kg riders, and the mechanical demands on the kit are completely different.
Bikeahead is a German producer of high end wheels. But they also produce frames for the small Swiss Brand Stoll Bikes…mainly Mountainbike but also a road bike model you can check. Also in Portugal new carbon bike production is opened….also some Italian brands have at least partial production in Italy
As someone with a Winspace- almost everyone I meet always asks me what it is. It’s not a name brand in the UK. Unless you watch TH-cam content most people might not know the brand name- Same with the Lun Hyper wheels. The brand is growing, and if you watch my last video on China, you’ll see it’s growing quickly. But they aren’t brand names in the UK or Europe just yet.
Really good review by your by expert Cris. I have an SLC 2.0 with Dura Ace groupset and crank. It was not possible to internalize the rear brake cable through the headset as there was not enough space. They have corrected that on the 3.0. I was hoping they would change to the T47 BB. I noticed the difference in the seat stay attachment position. Would the 3.0 be much more compliant than the 2.0? What is your take on upgrading to the 3.0 frame? Is it worth it? Looking forward to the final build.
Let me get it built up and ride it then I think we can try and see how it shapes up as a bike. Internal cables is awesome and a big win because it makes a very clean looking bike and I love that.
@@thewattlife Responders having an issue with Cris's review should take a look at Hambini's review of Winspace. Hambini is an engineer and has given Winspace a good review. Another source is Jasper Verkuijl. He did an in-depth review of the Winspace factory and manufacturing process. Winspace manufactures frames for other brands as well, not just in-house brands.
@@jkotsche7035 Winspace's parent company GOTOBIKE Carbon Composites manufactures frames and wheels for 4 brands in the men's world tour. Everything is made in China. Other than Time and LOOK, no other western brand has their own mass production carbon fibre manufacturing facility.
@@swites 9/10 . Yes, I'm happy with it. I wish they had made the head tube large enough to run both brake cables internally. Stiff frame, great for climbing. I think the frame came in at 820g, size 470. 12 Speed Dura Ace 52/36 11/34 cassette, 9 Velo wheelset, Assioma pedals. Less than 1/2 the price of the Specialized Athos S-Works and still less than the Athos Pro with Ultegra. Depending on Watt Life's review I may get the 3.0. I'm a weight weeny.
I like the look of this frame more than the Agile. Nothing against it but the seat stays on the Agile aren’t my kind of style. Other than that it’s great
Western brands and local bike shops are invested in rubbishing Chinese products, but it's getting harder to do. Firstly said Western brands use Chinese manufacturing and presumably in the way of such things, drive down the price they pay hard. Chinese direct don't have to put up with that so have more margin to maintain quality. Try investigating the SL8 fork saga to see what I mean.
Apparently poor alignment with the front wheel laying over a little. Big S will replace the forks if yours are that way it's said, but these are hugely expensive top end frames where one should expect the problems to be absent. Just WHAT are we paying these prices for?
I told him not to bother- I’m sure Hambini or Peaky will get the callipers out for you on the BB. Personally, I don’t care, I’ll find out when I build it up as the BB will not be aligned
All about the feel really? Most cyclists already have a heavier bike around the 8kg mark or so, so the idea of another 6.6 to 7.2kg climbing bike to take on ones climbing days is quite appealing I think.
@@barriem5318 Yeah I know, but I'm a lean 68kg mamil and have no weight to lose, so these things are good for riders like me. But horses for courses, and all that.
@@thewattlife ....most Turbo trainers have through axels which obviously will not work on this bike plus having an aluminium insert for the rear wheel axel bolt to thread into is a terrible idea. 1. Cannot use on Turbo trainers. 2. The Aluminium insert will corrode rapidly which could cause a dangerous situation....we are not all _dry weather cyclists_ . Looks like Windspace are putting minor aesthetics ahead of obvious practically/ usability and health / safety issues. A big own goal I feel.....I will definitely give this bike a miss.
![[UNCUT] The Loyal Pin ปิ่นภักดิ์ EP.6 (1/4)](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/m05kZ2GDKXg/mqdefault.jpg)
![[UNCUT] The Loyal Pin ปิ่นภักดิ์ EP.6 (2/4)](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/GgeGQOP10RQ/mqdefault.jpg)
This is the best non biased vid online regarding this stuff. I walked away from this with a clear view of the frame. Well done brother
Thank you man
A carbon expert who looks only, measures nothing. Is the bottom bracket shell in spec? Odd video title for a visual inspection.
Is taking 4 measurements in a bottom bracket the definition of someone who knows about carbon or the definition of someone who knows how to use a ruler?!?!?
@@thewattlife A Carbon Expert would not necessarily check for alignment or measure tolerances, but I came into this video expecting someone to show NDT-ing of the fram the frame with x-ray or ultrasound to check for voids, in the layup, uniform wall thicknesses, excess resin, wrinkles , presence of other materials such as foam or fiberglass, assessment of the joints etc. Something like Raoul Luesher does. I agree that this was just a quick visual inspection
Truly interesting insights. Clearly he has a lot of knowledge. Don’t know what some people (other comments) expected. Yes the frame could be x-rayed and so on, but I think Chris gave a good amount of explanation and expertise to get a fair impression of the frame. Thanks for the video!
I could listen to Chris all day. What a great knowledgeable chap! Looking forward to the build.
He did a great job going over a frame i threw at him out the blue
Very interesting vid dude thanks for putting this together chris certainly knows his stuff look forward to watching the next episodes 😊 Pete 🚴🏻👍
My next frame when I'm ready, Trek SLR frame weighs 800-900 grams for double that money never again! They are made in the same place.
This is a great option- can’t wait to build it up
did you actually weight yours? my SLR madone 58cm is about 350grams heavier than they claimed otherwise my build would have been around 6.150g. impressive that he actually shows the claimed weight right here unless its a ultra ultra light preproduction model and the ones we all will get end up being another 200g heavier or 300-350 heavier with a metallic paint job... hopefully it doesnt ride like a wet noodle like my Time ADH did.
I weigh it in the video.
Will be weighing everything in the next vid too
@@thewattlife yeah I was talking to DC6500 about his SLR weight, I saw your scale in the vid obviously, if your going weight weenie build consider using the tape I run th-cam.com/users/shortsUo50zoE37kE?feature=share
@@HeyWattsUpCycling did you ever experience speed wobble on the Time?
People need to stop obsessing with grams. You need a bike to climb mountains? Fit bigger cassette. Or smaller chainrings. Or both. 300 grams lighter won’t help you much. 36t cassette will.
One more minute in and it’s painful what he’s saying.
Does not know what he’s talking about.
So in the 2 minutes of listing to him. 1 the foam is only ever used on a joint not through the frame as a whole. The frame in his hand is made as one complete unit. Yes is a complex moulding process, but much better.
He also talks about the foam expanding with the pressure and the excess resin coming out. 1 foam still isn’t used Like that but he’s trying to talk about resin transfer like how Time frames are made.
99% of frames use prepreg carbon
Other methods include, tubes and rapped . Festka bikes and Sarto are made like that, then Time bikes use resin transfer which is almost unique to them. Poss the new 3T frames made in Italy are made the same way. Not sure on that one
Plus the tubes and lugged like some of the older colnagos .
Plus he clearly doesn’t know most decent frames use a EPS mould to rap the carbon round.
Then to the inflate it inside the steel mould to the prefect shape of the frame.
And no the BB alinement is done in the moulding not machined after as Hambini wouldn’t have a purpuse in life
If those were machined after etc 😂😂😂
I’m going to have to watch thos nonsense later 😂😂 please ask winspace themselves if I’m right
And regarding bikes all the carbon know how on lay ups etc is all done by the factories. Not the nonsense you hear about over here in the west .
Wouldn’t it be funny if we found out Winspace actually make the SL8 😂😂
👀
lol. It would but I don’t think they come out of Xiamen
@thewattlife, would you bet you new bike on that?
@thewattlife winspace don't make the sl8 however it is definitely made in xiamen. The carbon layup. It's then shipped to Taiwan for paint, packaging and export due to the tariff situation with cuntmerica
@@thewattlife sworks 100% made in xiamen
It's unfortunate that Europe, with the exception of Time in Slovakia, who uses resin transfer while everyone else uses prepreg, lost the manufacturing know how for such things. When's the last time that guy walked a factory floor in China to see how frames really are made these days?
It would be very interesting, however, to watch him build the bike and mention what he puts on each contact point and why, because most people who build their own frames don't know whether to grease or not, what grease and why, and so on. Most of the factories that make bikes don't actually ride bikes, and if they do, doing 100w isn't the same as riding alpine mountain passes with 80kg riders, and the mechanical demands on the kit are completely different.
Bikeahead is a German producer of high end wheels. But they also produce frames for the small Swiss Brand Stoll Bikes…mainly Mountainbike but also a road bike model you can check. Also in Portugal new carbon bike production is opened….also some Italian brands have at least partial production in Italy
I thought he was a bike carbon expert but doesn’t know who Winspace are? Weird.
Is that weird- I’ve literally never seen one in the UK other than mine and I’ve done tonnes of events and cycling.
@@thewattlife not the specific frame but Winspace themselves.
As someone with a Winspace- almost everyone I meet always asks me what it is. It’s not a name brand in the UK.
Unless you watch TH-cam content most people might not know the brand name- Same with the Lun Hyper wheels.
The brand is growing, and if you watch my last video on China, you’ll see it’s growing quickly. But they aren’t brand names in the UK or Europe just yet.
Awesome video 👌. Makes me want to sell my Trek.
My Trek that cost double that has aluminum inserts!
Nice vid! Look forward to the build and test ride :)
Coming SOON!!! Just waiting for my damn wheels to clear customs
Hopefully they make rim brake versions
I don’t think they will 🥺
wealth of knowledge! now i feel like a carbon expert XD
Thank you man
like the bike in the background at first impressions
The OG Cinelli Veltrix with pink/blue mechanical cables, and pink/blue Ride Bikes Lun Hypers.
It’s a vibe and I love it
Problem with covered axle holes is can be a bit of trouble if need to chase out w a tap..
It’s weird because with open axel holes, I’ve literally never worried about it and nothing has gone wrong, but now they are covered… I live in fear!!!
Really good review by your by expert Cris.
I have an SLC 2.0 with Dura Ace groupset and crank. It was not possible to internalize the rear brake cable through the headset as there was not enough space.
They have corrected that on the 3.0. I was hoping they would change to the T47 BB.
I noticed the difference in the seat stay attachment position. Would the 3.0 be much more compliant than the 2.0?
What is your take on upgrading to the 3.0 frame? Is it worth it?
Looking forward to the final build.
Let me get it built up and ride it then I think we can try and see how it shapes up as a bike. Internal cables is awesome and a big win because it makes a very clean looking bike and I love that.
@@thewattlife Responders having an issue with Cris's review should take a look at Hambini's review of Winspace. Hambini is an engineer and has given Winspace a good review. Another source is Jasper Verkuijl. He did an in-depth review of the Winspace factory and manufacturing process. Winspace manufactures frames for other brands as well, not just in-house brands.
@@jkotsche7035 Winspace's parent company GOTOBIKE Carbon Composites manufactures frames and wheels for 4 brands in the men's world tour.
Everything is made in China. Other than Time and LOOK, no other western brand has their own mass production carbon fibre manufacturing facility.
@@jkotsche7035 how would you rate the SLC 2.0 out of 10? Are you happy with it?
@@swites 9/10 . Yes, I'm happy with it. I wish they had made the head tube large enough to run both brake cables internally.
Stiff frame, great for climbing. I think the frame came in at 820g, size 470.
12 Speed Dura Ace 52/36 11/34 cassette, 9 Velo wheelset, Assioma pedals.
Less than 1/2 the price of the Specialized Athos S-Works and still less than the Athos Pro with Ultegra.
Depending on Watt Life's review I may get the 3.0. I'm a weight weeny.
What is the weight of the one piece bar? Can't find claimed weights anywhere
Mine is 358g’s. 380 width. 115 length
I'm actually torn between this and thr agile , as somone who's love to climb snd that's where my efforts go I lean more towards SLC
I like the look of this frame more than the Agile. Nothing against it but the seat stays on the Agile aren’t my kind of style. Other than that it’s great
You don’t ride in the rain. Fair enough. But do you also clean the bike without water? Better safe than sorry; use lots of grease!
Of course I will grease, but I should get longer last out of these components as I don’t tend to ride in the rain, is what I mean 👌🏻
Sorry, you cannot claim an examination without an ultrasound scanner. Voids are far more important than a glance inside. Rgr
Errr. Maybe I should have just cut my new frame in half
@@thewattlife Not the most clever thing. That only exposes a part of possible voids in the wall or joints. And it would wreck the frame. Rgr
Your guy is a bit out of touch and digging a bit of a hole for himself…
Western brands and local bike shops are invested in rubbishing Chinese products, but it's getting harder to do. Firstly said Western brands use Chinese manufacturing and presumably in the way of such things, drive down the price they pay hard. Chinese direct don't have to put up with that so have more margin to maintain quality.
Try investigating the SL8 fork saga to see what I mean.
What is the SL8 Fork saga?
Apparently poor alignment with the front wheel laying over a little. Big S will replace the forks if yours are that way it's said, but these are hugely expensive top end frames where one should expect the problems to be absent. Just WHAT are we paying these prices for?
I was told that S Works do their carbon layup in Xiamen....
What is the orange aero frame in the background?
it's an ORRO Venturi if I'm not mistaking
Correct
.that frame is 1 piece
I enjoy Max's channel, but I'm a pass when it comes to talking about the weight of a frame. I've got some grass growing in my garden to watch.
Enjoy!
Back to business as usual and I have some vlogs and rides coming out this week
Lol it's getting lighter in every movie 😂😂😂
Haha looks that way huh. Think Grant was 825 which shocked me because mine was 801 with everything. He needs to change his batteries 😉
When will it be built up ?
Aiming to build and shoot it next week- just waiting on one last part.
He did not take any measurement
I told him not to bother- I’m sure Hambini or Peaky will get the callipers out for you on the BB. Personally, I don’t care, I’ll find out when I build it up as the BB will not be aligned
Featherweight carbon frames are pointless for 95% of fast recreational (non competitive) riders out there.
I mean- I gotta beat my buddies to the coffee stop somehow!!!
All about the feel really? Most cyclists already have a heavier bike around the 8kg mark or so, so the idea of another 6.6 to 7.2kg climbing bike to take on ones climbing days is quite appealing I think.
@@swites That's all moot if you are 20 lbs overweight yourself, or you are riding with 2 full water bottles. You won't notice the difference
@@barriem5318 Yeah I know, but I'm a lean 68kg mamil and have no weight to lose, so these things are good for riders like me. But horses for courses, and all that.
Even chinese dont buy their own products but instead save up for better quality.
5.14 in he is no carbon expert. And is very much out of touch on how frames are manufactured
He was correct in how winspace removes the molded core ..
@@philipsimmonds1103 they use a latex core and pull it out.
@DanielDLParr not to long ago, they incinerated the mold .. however .. chinese government has been cracking down on environmental
@@philipsimmonds1103 what nonsense are you talking about. Next you’ll be saying that you cant recycle carbon fibre too
@@DanielDLParr i think it is used once on each frame but re moulded each time for a new frame
This frame is one piece. What is he smoking. Clueless.
....an aluminium insert also means you cannot use the frame on most Turbo trainers.....obviously.
Why is that?
@@thewattlife ....most Turbo trainers have through axels which obviously will not work on this bike plus having an aluminium insert for the rear wheel axel bolt to thread into is a terrible idea.
1. Cannot use on Turbo trainers.
2. The Aluminium insert will corrode rapidly which could cause a dangerous situation....we are not all _dry weather cyclists_ .
Looks like Windspace are putting minor aesthetics ahead of obvious practically/ usability and health / safety issues.
A big own goal I feel.....I will definitely give this bike a miss.