Hey Phil, seeing a lot of people have asked this I'll pin this comment. Every apex car is insured. There is an excess policy on each car in the unfortunate event of an accident. You can check out all this info on our price list. Perhaps I'll make a video explaining this in more detail later on for those who have questions :-)
Is it possible to obtain insurance against the excess? I appreciate the excess amount is probably due to the inherent risks of rentals for track driving but I certainly couldn't afford those amounts if the worst happened.
@@RobertMitchell So in the cases above, these people aren’t paying for the full damage to the car, they’re being helped with the insurance excess, correct? To me, if you hire a car but you can’t afford the excess if something happens, that’s pretty disrespectful to have a company put their trust in you when you know you aren’t good for it. It’s understandable if the insurance was voided and someone was unexpectedly on the hook for the whole lot, but the excesses are there clear as day before you hire. I dunno. I don’t have thousands to pay for an accident if I did have one, so I don’t go to the Ring. I’m not sure I could enjoy driving it if I was constantly worried about bankrupting myself on top of the usual ‘if I stack it I’ll be an asshole or even a dead asshole’
@@RobertMitchell Yes, please make a video explaining all about the insurance part please. Is this also why you don't have a GT3 for rental for example? Thanks.
This is why I love Apex, Robert's approach and openness. I like to hear these stories. PS: Would you consider adding some pictures or footage of a car you are talking about during the speech? I think it would look great, I am sure I am not the only one who cannot recall each car you had and would love to see them!
@@RobertMitchell -- I actually had to wipe my eyes listening to that story. This is when you know that a business isn't just a cash cow for someone and is rather there to do something good for the community.
Lots of people asking about insurance; there's some info on old document on their website (Search for "Apex_Nuerburg_price_list_rental_cars_oct17.pdf" on google and you will get more info) If I remember right the insurance is (much) more expensive than the rental itself; so most people just ignore it... It was like 400 euros to get insurance back in 2017. Insurance excess for the VW Polo GTI (DSG) in 2017: 12 999,00 € Insurance excess for the BMW M4* (DCT) in 2017: 29 999,00 € → "Insurance excess" is the maximum amount you could be liable in case of damage. Everything above the excess is insured
Mad respect that Apex is able to work out something when an accident happens, BUT, as any racer/track day person should know, never take anything to the track you're not financially able to walk away from.
I still think it’s absolute madness to go out and rent a car to thrash round the Nurburgring, just because the risk of massive repair expense doesn’t seem to weigh up vs just buying your own car, but if i was ever to do it, it would have to be with Apex. You guys seem like good people.
As I’m sure our parents have said “honesty is the best policy”. You need to protect your business and true fans and customers will understand your measures.
Apex have one of the best customers service. I don't know many rental services who are so open to help and reduce the bill in case of a crash. A good advice for noobs on the ring: if you don't have money to pay for your mistakes, take a taxi lap ! It will be safer, way faster (specially with Ice cold Moritz, I'll never forget my ride with him in the 600LT) and no extra costs for a lifetime experience ! Thanks Robert and all the Apex team for being so great !
This shows what you guys are all about. Not just raking in money but actually caring about people, giving them a break and making sure they don't forever live with a soured memory of the ring. I don't think I would ever rent a car, only an instructor, but for both I would definitely only come to you guys.
I do remember the Clio crash as we were shortly after at the scene. Friend of us helped at the scene, reporting severe injuries, not sure to what extend, I have no further info. Hearing you guys supported him in various ways is a nice gesture but it seems not appreciated. Really don’t understand why people are this disrespectfull.
I actually tought rental car companies at the ring would cover the costs of a eventually "accident". I was wrong. This kinda turns me off going to a trackday or to the ringbut to the business perspective makes all sense. Would rather get my own track tool and deal with my own stuff honestly
@@nicksGLI Exactly. If I were ever to drive on the Nürburgring I would do it in a cheap-ish older hot-hatch. This way you would only have to pay for the crash-barrier damages and other fees related to crashing on the ring but at least you wouldn't be bankrupt.
Exactly what I was wondering. I imagine any insurance would have a very high excess but that would be better than covering the whole cost in the event the car is totalled!
@@gbgt2 It seems if you total an apex car and it’s not your fault, you are liable to repay back the entire value of the car. Why would they not offer insurance? Other companies do.
Love the fact that you bring people who've damaged the cars back to leave them with a positive memory of the ring! That's a business that understands people and truly loves delivering the service it provides. Respect!
Robert, it is no surprise that Apex and your other business ventures are successful. You are truly a special person. The world needs more people like you! Continued success!
Jesus man I would not be taking out any of those cars unless I was confident that I was fully covered. I have no idea if insurance is available or how it works there though.
I thought you guys got insurance to cover accidents.. 🤷 To be honest as a first time on the track I wouldnt be comfortable to get into sport car without knowing it is no.insurance for me there..
They do have their cars insured but their insurance policies are connected with relatively high excesses. If you have a look at their homepage: The Polo GTI has as an example an excess of 12999€. I believe that's gotta be okay considering the fact that insuring a rental for this type of usage can't be cheap. I read between the lines of Roberts crash stories that they obviously charge you the full repair bill if it is cheaper then paying the excess.
We all come across these "Johns" at various points in our lives. You just gotta move on, knowing that your pain is only temporary, while that other guy is miserable for the rest of his life, because he's fundamentally a prick.
Interesting topic - I had assumed that renting the cars included insurance so that if you damaged them, the insurance would cover. I didn't realise that if you crash the car you have to pay potentially thousands to repair.. What happens to damage to the track, is I've heard horror stories where armco bills have run into thousands too??
What I gather from this, you potentially have to pay tens of thousands which is brutal if you just came for a fun lap on a holiday. Better just crash your own car, at least the insurance pays for it...
@@kobbetop While I think that these stories worked out pretty well, I think after hearing this I'd rather take my own car and maybe get an instructor lap. If I crash my shitbox little of value is lost, propably less than 5k in car damage (potentially plus ring damage?). That's a risk I'm somewhat willing to take, but risking paying for a heavily modified almost new track car? That could ruin your life for years ahead in the future if you aren't a big earner.
Yes agreed. I'm glad Robert made that video, it's definitely making me think twice before renting a car on the Nurburgring. I was already somewhat worried about the huge amounts you had to pay if you caused a track closure for example but this is the final nail to the coffin. I guess you have to be rich to truly enjoy the Nurburgring 😕
Came from Misha’s channel a while ago, was watching some of your videos, but now subscribed after honest talk about crash situations and how you actually think and care about your customer. I have never been in ring, but that is one of my dreams. When I will be able to come and experience it - it will surely be with Apex.
Thanks Robert, I have a friend who has a couple of motorcycle businesses and includes rental - the team sounds similar to yours and goes out of their way, and most customers respond to that. Then occasionally an exception comes up and you catch your breath and reconsider. Regarding the exceptions as anomalies and sticking to your core values pays dividends - otherwise they can spoil the passion and enthusiasm.
That's really fantastic how you work with those people. I feel for both parties. So cool that you helped them get back to the 'ring and not end on a downer. A lot of respect for you. Definetly above and beyond.
Robert, I commented this a long while back but I will reiterate: You, Misha and the Apex crew are most upstanding, moral and just all around good people. The world needs more who operate in life as you do. I cannot wait to come over to Apex and the Nurburgring just to talk and enjoy the whole experience. There must be laps!!! Thanks as always
I Drive a Yaris too, did 15 Laps ob the Ring. You have do be concentraded and Push the Stick in the right direction. Than you had no problem. If you drive 99% of the Time a AT Car, better choose a other car to learn the Ring
I'm not one for commenting on YT content, but Robert, you epitomise the way a business should be run, huge respect to you, and if I'm ever at the ring I know where I will be heading for a hire 👍
I remember being there when the guys with the clio happened, thankfully as you say they are the minority and its a testament to you guys how you deal with the genuine people!
The way you handled that customers with financial difficulties is not only accomodating and courteous, but also really wholesome. i dont know you, but at least in this incident you seem to prefer the greater good to the cash & in my humble opinion this is the right way to do stuff. cheers!
Adding cameras for everyone's protection and adding value to the driving experience is a great value for everyone involved! If I am ever fortunate enough to come drive one of your cars, I just want to have an option to buy insurance ahead of time to cover everyone.
This was a great video for myself who wants to visit from the US at a later date to drive a car. Obviously different country and laws it's tricky to find out how everything works over there but after discovering your channel thanks to Misha I feel much more comfortable about my trip.
Are you not insure with your fleet ? Like a normal renting company ? Just pay the up front caution for the customer and the rest by the insurrance ? Super interesting topic 😊👍🏼👍🏼
They are, but the insurance excess is a lot higher than for normal road legal cars. For the M4 it‘s 30000 €. You can see it when looking at the rental cars on the Apex Website
Am I missing something..what's the insurance excess on your cars? 20k bill for running over curbs in an f82 is hardly a fair compensation for something that is expected to rip out like the oil cooler lines in a situation like that.
Even though I have Kart racing and track day experience here in Australia, crashing was my number 1 fear when I drove your M4. I was meant to drive the M2, but someone had binned it prior, your team then graciously upgraded me to the M4 at no extra charge (another element of these crashes that you can't recoup). I really had to hold myself back with how hard I naturally wanted to drive that car. I had to keep in mind that it was my first time around "The Ring" and Driving the M4 on the other side of the world (and the other side of the car).... Having Misha's instructions for my laps gave me a great experience, I hope to come back and spend more time there when ever the global pandemic situation will allow. You guys are the class of the motoring world! keep it up!
This is why Robert and the Apex crew are the best. If you own up to your mistakes you can probably get a break. Running away is probably the worst thing you can do in that situation. Also no one is gonna judge the guys who crashed and owned up. Meanwhile everyone is going to remember 'John' as that dbag who crashed, injured himself, his friends and just "ran". You will make things worse for yourself if you do this sort of thing. Robert I tip my hat to you for treating the real ones like that. You are truly a great person.
I'm shocked that there isn't already a sort of dashcam already installed with a g force meter, rev recorder etc... You must have a lot of faith in your customers, people will take advantage. Sad to hear about people being scumbags, hoping you have better luck in the future!
Another great video and really important for anyone renting. Pleased to see your covering the Insurance aspect of this as it's so important. This whole area is key aspect to driving at the Ring for me. My road car insurance now specifically bans it as somewhere to drive :(
When I rented from the Burgstube hotel some years ago they plugged the device in the odb port to monitor for over reving. Don’t see it as a problem and made me respect the car more.
Crazy stories! On the ring i always drove a car which i can easily afford to throw away. If you have to think about the money it's not fun. The same if you got a car which you can't replace easily. I know one guy who took away two GT3 RS. He had to wait for many months to get a new one and was pissed of that.
In Germany we have a saying: Wie man in den Wald hinein ruft, so schallt es auch wieder heraus. Basically how you shout into the woods is how the woods shout back at you. --> If you admitt your faults and are responsible the peole treat you well...most of the time. / Originally it means how you treat others is how they treat you...but as sayings are..they are valid for more than one occaision, I believe. ;-)
love the way you treat your customers. like no extra charge for camera footage from the yaris. really refreshing way of doing things. would defo come to you guys first.
Hey Robert :) I´m once more absolutely stunned by how you handle your business and what kind of personality you have. Seeing all the things you do really does help bring and keep people in this hobby, no matter how hard they screw up. We all f**k up at some point but having someone like you guys/girls who are there in this moment really makes a difference I guess. More people sould take you as a role model (even though I dont think you want to hear that ;P ) and learn how to deal with shitty situations on a mature level. PS the clio storry somehow makes me wana join the apex team. Thx for being as aweome as always and have a great day :)
How about a community insurance? You could charge 5% extra per round, the money of all cars goes to a bucket. If someone crashes and there was no gross negligence you could support the customer with, lets say, 50% of the actual amount of that bucket, but a maximum of 75% of the damage. This could help reduce the financial burden of the individual that is so unfortunate to crash.
This is what Makes Apex different from others. You give them respect, you get respect. I got a similar thing. An instruction lap in my mx5 and on 3/4 of the lap a sensor malfunction and the engine cuts out. It was my first lap of 4 with instruction. Afterwards they told me i could get my Laps till end of the year. To bad i hadnt the time to Come back. But the gesture was super nice.
It's really inspiring to see how you're compassionate and place overall customer experience first, so much so that sometimes it leave you out of pocket. Also, I hope the Yaris stays on the road, but it'll be interesting to see how you go about determining who'd be responsible to blowing up the engine, say if the most recent customer didn't actually over rev and in fact a customer 5 laps ago did - similar to what happened to yourself where the Yaris went bang after 5 laps.
Isn't there some kind of insurance? I mean, you have street legal rental cars, on a legal (private) road. If your customer crashes, no insurance will pay? I know that many insurances have "Touristenfahrten" excluded in their terms but there are still some insurances that include this kind of accidents. At least for non rental cars.
I really thought these kind of rental bussinesses offered a optional insurance of some sort. Are there no insurance companies that have this kind of product?
Not just good business values, but also great people values. Sometimes more important than any financial situation. Good on you for helping someone and having a positive impact in their lives, even if they had a negative impact on your wallet. You seem like a genuine man Robert. Getting settled here now, cooking great meals again and having a place to call home with doggo happy and tail waggy as usual. In my dream house on the salt water shore non the less.. all just from great people with great values. An amazing and giant stepping stone to a much needed rebuild and successful future for myself. Bullying isn't OK at any age and leaves scars some people don't recover from. Be kind.
I’ve always said APEX will be the only place I give my business too if I ever get to the Nurburgring because of how Robert runs it. Absolute legend of a guy!
I think I was at Apex the day the Clio crashed If it was the summer of 2019. If I remember correctly, they had to cut the car open and like a can of tuna and they were airlifted out of there. I remember getting back to the Apex office and Bruno told us about the incident and told us to be super careful. And then we talked about how that was the worst day of the year by far with all the track closures. I think there were well over 10. The green hell delivers
To pay their excess cost, check out the price list and rental terms. If you don’t crash there will be no excess to pay but If you crash then there is an excess to pay. The renter should be covering that cost, not the vehicle owner. It’s no different to a Hertz rental car, well actually yes it is.. Hertz would not be so kind and compassionate as to offer a payment plan to the customer! Apex are just pure class.
Hello Robert, as someone who has been thinking for a while about getting into the "fun cars rental business" here in Japan, I have a quick question for you... Considering that the cars will be rented out, and in regards to that M4 crash, wouldn't it be more judicious to avoid add-ons like expensive wheels or carbon fiber splitters and similar aero/lightweight/styling mods that mainly just raise the bill when a crash occurs? Back when you did taxi laps, I understand the importance of cool looking mods as a promotion tool for the company, for cars that remain in the hands of people who know what they are doing... But rentals? Either way, enjoying the channel and your stories/point of views, so thank you for all that! Cheers, Flavien
Good on you to cut some of the guys a break, but why were they driving a car they couldn't afford to crash in the first place? If I was getting into an M4 with expensive carbon bits on it and I knew I couldn't afford to wreck it, I probably would be driving it as a rolling road block to everyone else. I've never actually rented a car but whenever I looked at a list of rentals I basically went straight for the value/deductible to see which ones I could afford to write off.
Moral: don't rent these cars unless you can afford to stomach a total loss. I think its pretty poor these guys don't have an insurance policy option for customers.
other rental companies have it. I would never rent a car when I'm liable for 20 or 30k, but hey. people seem to do this. maybe they don't read the terms and conditions. my last rental on the ring was a 330i, and the excess was limited to about 5k, booking additional insurance. that is reasonable in my opinion.
Really useful information again. Nobody intends to crash (I hope) or deliberately wreck an engine. I think this will also have another benefit to your customers, if there is an accident or engine/mechanical problem that is totally not their fault they will also have the evidence. Absolutely nothing wrong with trusting people, but it has to work both ways. George’s channel is great by the way, just what we needed to finish of the full picture. Reminds me I need to go and thank him😁
The openness with which you deal with these issues is definitely a massive positive about choosing Apex. I don't plan to crash any of your cars but I would feel better if I did so (than anyone else's)...
Very informative. I always guessed there would be an insurance for this with an excess to pay.the thought of owing for a whole car after an incident is quite frightening.
You can check the excess on the website when you‘re viewing „car details“. E.g. Yaris is 25k€. People should realize things like that maybe before they grab the wheel.
@@SimonEbener suprising Robert didn't address this, as through as he usually is. and with that one more question, Are you saying the first $25,000 of damage the renter is responsible? thanks
@@craftsoda I can only read whats written down at the website. Usually - but we talk about street rental now - you can book (extra charge) a cdw/ldw (collision or loss damage waiver) which restricts your own risk. I dont know if thats possible in this case. Team member can explain it best :)
I’m surprised that the rental cars don’t have insurance which has the maximum amount (reasonable) of money a customer has to pay if they crash the car. It’s basically a gamble because anything can happen and if you are not loaded, you are basically screwed for years to come...But maybe such insurance would make the rental prises unbearable high so it’s a trade off like everything in life.
This is a very reasonable approach to it Robert but the risk of crashing someone else’s car simply isn’t worth it for me and I would never rent a car for a lap. Damaging a 20k euro car would ruin me financially. I’d still love to come and spectate other cars at the ring this summer
Most people are reasonable people when stuff happens, unfortunately a minority are not, and it's growing :( Nice to see you guys are definitely on the right side :)
Depending on your own car (which most likely is not insured for the Nürburgring), crashing one of these rentals is still cheaper. IIRC a few years ago there was an additional insurance mentioned somewhere that would reduce the excess. The cost for that were around 500-750€ and would more than double most of the rental cost.
I love how you resolved these problems. I remembered when I got a bill for a damaged rental ( not on the ring ), it was 600 euros for a dent I didn't do ( a lot of money for a small dent tbh ). I told them I didn't hit anything during my rental period and I had taken a photo of the car around 40 mins after I picked up the rental where the dent was already there. They didn't believe me. This was probably my mistake on the negotiation, but I was just tired of dealing with it and just paid their offer of 450 euros. I'm not mad but it left a bad taste in my mouth. And obviously I'm not coming back to them. The story could've gone better. I love how you value the long term relationship with your customers, and not having people leaving Apex/ Nürburgring with bad experiences.
That sucks man, why couldn't you just send them the pics you took showing the damage and the phone number of your lawyer? If they wanted further proof all the photos (if taken with cell phone) have a date and time tags so you could prove it to them. I wouldn't want to pay for something I didn't do, it's not fair.
@@bokiNYC I never even thought about getting a lawyer ( I'm a student ) I did send them the photo but they argued it was 40 minutes after I took the car ( which it was, but I had no earlier photo ). I'm naturally non confrontative and I didn't know anything else to say, and neither had I the energy to argue, so I just let it go. Not my problem anymore. It sucks that I lost 450 euros and was left a bad taste in my mouth, but it's in the past anyways.
also I once had a manufacturer paying for a gearbox I blew up under warranty, which was probably more than what I paid for that rental. Karma strikes I guess 😝
Robert you are such a down to earth decent guy - respect to you and the Apex team, so many other companies would hire lawyers to recoup all costs let alone just the car like lost income, time spent dealing with it etc. Heartwarming that you work with clients even a free tuition lap and hotel wow well done - Honesty is the best policy and you and Apex are tantamount to that, just like the GR Yaris video you are so honest and down to earth you have my and many others peoples respect - Well done.
Great take away Robert!!! I suspect You have car rental insurance available at the time of renting? A must along with instruction laps! Will be doing it all up when I get there for sure! Question: Would You ever be interested in sharing the qualities of a good business model? I Really appreciate Your approach to business & how You harmonize business, passion, family, friendships, unifying them all into wonderful memories! Thank You so much for sharing the inspiration Brother! Many smiles per gallon along Your way along with everyone here who comes for a Robert lift... :)
I drove behind the red cupra when it crashed in the first corner. I could not believe it. Good to hear he was a “you break it you pay it” kinda guy. Cheers
Curious... Aren’t the rentals insured? Isn’t insurance part of the rental fee?
Hey Phil, seeing a lot of people have asked this I'll pin this comment.
Every apex car is insured. There is an excess policy on each car in the unfortunate event of an accident. You can check out all this info on our price list. Perhaps I'll make a video explaining this in more detail later on for those who have questions :-)
Is it possible to obtain insurance against the excess? I appreciate the excess amount is probably due to the inherent risks of rentals for track driving but I certainly couldn't afford those amounts if the worst happened.
@@RobertMitchell Hi Robert,
Great! I believe a video clarifying the insurance coverages would be perfect 👌
@@RobertMitchell So in the cases above, these people aren’t paying for the full damage to the car, they’re being helped with the insurance excess, correct?
To me, if you hire a car but you can’t afford the excess if something happens, that’s pretty disrespectful to have a company put their trust in you when you know you aren’t good for it.
It’s understandable if the insurance was voided and someone was unexpectedly on the hook for the whole lot, but the excesses are there clear as day before you hire.
I dunno. I don’t have thousands to pay for an accident if I did have one, so I don’t go to the Ring. I’m not sure I could enjoy driving it if I was constantly worried about bankrupting myself on top of the usual ‘if I stack it I’ll be an asshole or even a dead asshole’
@@RobertMitchell Yes, please make a video explaining all about the insurance part please. Is this also why you don't have a GT3 for rental for example? Thanks.
No it wasn't me.
Edit: John, you're a dbag.
🤣🤣🤣👍👍👍
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
I can hear Misha’s laugh as I read this 🤣🤣
🤣🤣
😂 It was my first thought when i thought it was an old storytime.
This is why I love Apex, Robert's approach and openness. I like to hear these stories.
PS: Would you consider adding some pictures or footage of a car you are talking about during the speech? I think it would look great, I am sure I am not the only one who cannot recall each car you had and would love to see them!
Hey Visio!!!!! Hige fan of your channel!
The polo story is incredible. He will absolutely have a better view of the ring because of you guys . Wow !
It was great to turn around a negative situation into a positive :-)
@@RobertMitchell -- I actually had to wipe my eyes listening to that story. This is when you know that a business isn't just a cash cow for someone and is rather there to do something good for the community.
Lots of people asking about insurance; there's some info on old document on their website (Search for "Apex_Nuerburg_price_list_rental_cars_oct17.pdf" on google and you will get more info)
If I remember right the insurance is (much) more expensive than the rental itself; so most people just ignore it... It was like 400 euros to get insurance back in 2017.
Insurance excess for the VW Polo GTI (DSG) in 2017: 12 999,00 €
Insurance excess for the BMW M4* (DCT) in 2017: 29 999,00 €
→ "Insurance excess" is the maximum amount you could be liable in case of damage. Everything above the excess is insured
Mad respect that Apex is able to work out something when an accident happens, BUT, as any racer/track day person should know, never take anything to the track you're not financially able to walk away from.
It’s all about respect and quick remediation. Manual trans rules!
Yep I agree! :-)
especially with a non-interference engine.
Amen.. totally agree!😊
@Gijs M just don't misshift 🤑🤭
I still think it’s absolute madness to go out and rent a car to thrash round the Nurburgring, just because the risk of massive repair expense doesn’t seem to weigh up vs just buying your own car, but if i was ever to do it, it would have to be with Apex. You guys seem like good people.
Never a fun topic, but it's amazing that you're sharing these things as well. That's #TierOne Youtubing right there!
I agree Onur; but we gotta be open and honest! Thanks for watching :-)
@@RobertMitchell 👍😊👍
As I’m sure our parents have said “honesty is the best policy”. You need to protect your business and true fans and customers will understand your measures.
Apex have one of the best customers service. I don't know many rental services who are so open to help and reduce the bill in case of a crash. A good advice for noobs on the ring: if you don't have money to pay for your mistakes, take a taxi lap ! It will be safer, way faster (specially with Ice cold Moritz, I'll never forget my ride with him in the 600LT) and no extra costs for a lifetime experience ! Thanks Robert and all the Apex team for being so great !
This shows what you guys are all about. Not just raking in money but actually caring about people, giving them a break and making sure they don't forever live with a soured memory of the ring.
I don't think I would ever rent a car, only an instructor, but for both I would definitely only come to you guys.
Agree 100%!
Spot on.
I agree!
After hearing these stories, I'm with you. I would only go out with an instructor... and drive 55 mph. ☺️
I do remember the Clio crash as we were shortly after at the scene. Friend of us helped at the scene, reporting severe injuries, not sure to what extend, I have no further info. Hearing you guys supported him in various ways is a nice gesture but it seems not appreciated. Really don’t understand why people are this disrespectfull.
I actually tought rental car companies at the ring would cover the costs of a eventually "accident". I was wrong. This kinda turns me off going to a trackday or to the ringbut to the business perspective makes all sense. Would rather get my own track tool and deal with my own stuff honestly
Yes, exactly would have thought the packages would at least come with an insurance option
Don't track anything you can't afford to write off
@@alexzandz Absolutely !
@@nicksGLI Exactly. If I were ever to drive on the Nürburgring I would do it in a cheap-ish older hot-hatch. This way you would only have to pay for the crash-barrier damages and other fees related to crashing on the ring but at least you wouldn't be bankrupt.
What about rental insurance with an excess value the customer has to cover.
Robert please explain more regarding insurance why there is no full coverage is it a cost thing or related to being a race track etc?
Exactly what I was wondering. I imagine any insurance would have a very high excess but that would be better than covering the whole cost in the event the car is totalled!
@@gbgt2 It seems if you total an apex car and it’s not your fault, you are liable to repay back the entire value of the car. Why would they not offer insurance? Other companies do.
I wondered the same thing. Although if I'm not mistaken, in the car chat podcast Robert mentioned that car's aren't insured so that might explain it.
Love the fact that you bring people who've damaged the cars back to leave them with a positive memory of the ring! That's a business that understands people and truly loves delivering the service it provides. Respect!
Robert, it is no surprise that Apex and your other business ventures are successful. You are truly a special person. The world needs more people like you! Continued success!
Jesus man I would not be taking out any of those cars unless I was confident that I was fully covered. I have no idea if insurance is available or how it works there though.
I agree with you. Here in the states you can check the box to add full coverage for an extra fee when you rent a car. I guess Germany is different?
@@davidhunternyc1 most general car rental companies prohibit taking a car to the ring.
@@philiphawkins4684 Thanks. What I meant to say is does Apex offer full coverage by checking a box? Not a regular rental car company.
I thought you guys got insurance to cover accidents.. 🤷
To be honest as a first time on the track I wouldnt be comfortable to get into sport car without knowing it is no.insurance for me there..
They do have their cars insured but their insurance policies are connected with relatively high excesses. If you have a look at their homepage: The Polo GTI has as an example an excess of 12999€.
I believe that's gotta be okay considering the fact that insuring a rental for this type of usage can't be cheap.
I read between the lines of Roberts crash stories that they obviously charge you the full repair bill if it is cheaper then paying the excess.
We all come across these "Johns" at various points in our lives. You just gotta move on, knowing that your pain is only temporary, while that other guy is miserable for the rest of his life, because he's fundamentally a prick.
Interesting topic - I had assumed that renting the cars included insurance so that if you damaged them, the insurance would cover. I didn't realise that if you crash the car you have to pay potentially thousands to repair.. What happens to damage to the track, is I've heard horror stories where armco bills have run into thousands too??
What I gather from this, you potentially have to pay tens of thousands which is brutal if you just came for a fun lap on a holiday. Better just crash your own car, at least the insurance pays for it...
@@kobbetop While I think that these stories worked out pretty well, I think after hearing this I'd rather take my own car and maybe get an instructor lap. If I crash my shitbox little of value is lost, propably less than 5k in car damage (potentially plus ring damage?). That's a risk I'm somewhat willing to take, but risking paying for a heavily modified almost new track car?
That could ruin your life for years ahead in the future if you aren't a big earner.
Yes agreed. I'm glad Robert made that video, it's definitely making me think twice before renting a car on the Nurburgring. I was already somewhat worried about the huge amounts you had to pay if you caused a track closure for example but this is the final nail to the coffin. I guess you have to be rich to truly enjoy the Nurburgring 😕
Came from Misha’s channel a while ago, was watching some of your videos, but now subscribed after honest talk about crash situations and how you actually think and care about your customer.
I have never been in ring, but that is one of my dreams. When I will be able to come and experience it - it will surely be with Apex.
Thanks Robert, I have a friend who has a couple of motorcycle businesses and includes rental - the team sounds similar to yours and goes out of their way, and most customers respond to that. Then occasionally an exception comes up and you catch your breath and reconsider. Regarding the exceptions as anomalies and sticking to your core values pays dividends - otherwise they can spoil the passion and enthusiasm.
That's really fantastic how you work with those people. I feel for both parties. So cool that you helped them get back to the 'ring and not end on a downer. A lot of respect for you. Definetly above and beyond.
Robert, I commented this a long while back but I will reiterate:
You, Misha and the Apex crew are most upstanding, moral and just all around good people. The world needs more who operate in life as you do.
I cannot wait to come over to Apex and the Nurburgring just to talk and enjoy the whole experience. There must be laps!!!
Thanks as always
The Yaris is going to be the most expensive car you rent with all of those over revving fees.
Not if you don't over rev it ;-)
these overrev fees are perfectly normal and reasonable they are the same for all other car rental companies at the ring
bruh i hope Yaris wont spend 2 laps of Ring and 2weeks at repair shop and repeat....
I Drive a Yaris too, did 15 Laps ob the Ring.
You have do be concentraded and Push the Stick in the right direction.
Than you had no problem.
If you drive 99% of the Time a AT Car, better choose a other car to learn the Ring
@@davef3356 After hearing these stories my other car would be a Mercedes W123. Windows rolled down. Sunroof open. Elton John playing on the radio.
I'm not one for commenting on YT content, but Robert, you epitomise the way a business should be run, huge respect to you, and if I'm ever at the ring I know where I will be heading for a hire 👍
I remember being there when the guys with the clio happened, thankfully as you say they are the minority and its a testament to you guys how you deal with the genuine people!
It was definitely a busy weekend Richard! Looking forward to seeing you out here again when you can :-)
@@RobertMitchell well the car is completed now so it's all set.. just me that isn't!
The way you handled that customers with financial difficulties is not only accomodating and courteous, but also really wholesome. i dont know you, but at least in this incident you seem to prefer the greater good to the cash & in my humble opinion this is the right way to do stuff. cheers!
Adding cameras for everyone's protection and adding value to the driving experience is a great value for everyone involved!
If I am ever fortunate enough to come drive one of your cars, I just want to have an option to buy insurance ahead of time to cover everyone.
“One May” I’ve never heard anyone say a date like that in my life.
Direct translated from German
As usual, clean and top quality content👍
Thanks for the kind comments, glad you enjoyed!
@@RobertMitchell you deserves it man👍
This was a great video for myself who wants to visit from the US at a later date to drive a car. Obviously different country and laws it's tricky to find out how everything works over there but after discovering your channel thanks to Misha I feel much more comfortable about my trip.
Are you not insure with your fleet ? Like a normal renting company ? Just pay the up front caution for the customer and the rest by the insurrance ? Super interesting topic 😊👍🏼👍🏼
Sorry for my english im french 😂😂
Good question, maybe those insurance don't pay if it's drivers fault. Otherwise it would be mind-blowingly expensive.
They are, but the insurance excess is a lot higher than for normal road legal cars. For the M4 it‘s 30000 €. You can see it when looking at the rental cars on the Apex Website
Am I missing something..what's the insurance excess on your cars? 20k bill for running over curbs in an f82 is hardly a fair compensation for something that is expected to rip out like the oil cooler lines in a situation like that.
A perfect example of customer support in a perfect business . Kudos to your whole team Robert .
Thanks for the kind words, have a great day :-)
@@RobertMitchell 👌🏼✌🏼
Even though I have Kart racing and track day experience here in Australia, crashing was my number 1 fear when I drove your M4. I was meant to drive the M2, but someone had binned it prior, your team then graciously upgraded me to the M4 at no extra charge (another element of these crashes that you can't recoup).
I really had to hold myself back with how hard I naturally wanted to drive that car. I had to keep in mind that it was my first time around "The Ring" and Driving the M4 on the other side of the world (and the other side of the car)....
Having Misha's instructions for my laps gave me a great experience, I hope to come back and spend more time there when ever the global pandemic situation will allow.
You guys are the class of the motoring world! keep it up!
I have got big respect for the way you are running your business, working with people and try and make both sides happy, not just colecting money
People like Robert are rare nowadays, respect!
If excesses are that high, then you basically run fleet without insurance. That is pretty tough pill given that your prices are sky high.
This is why Robert and the Apex crew are the best. If you own up to your mistakes you can probably get a break. Running away is probably the worst thing you can do in that situation. Also no one is gonna judge the guys who crashed and owned up. Meanwhile everyone is going to remember 'John' as that dbag who crashed, injured himself, his friends and just "ran". You will make things worse for yourself if you do this sort of thing. Robert I tip my hat to you for treating the real ones like that. You are truly a great person.
I can picture Misha and Robert after a long crappy day at work, having a drink, and sighing, "well at least we didn't have a John today"
I'm shocked that there isn't already a sort of dashcam already installed with a g force meter, rev recorder etc... You must have a lot of faith in your customers, people will take advantage. Sad to hear about people being scumbags, hoping you have better luck in the future!
Another great video and really important for anyone renting. Pleased to see your covering the Insurance aspect of this as it's so important. This whole area is key aspect to driving at the Ring for me. My road car insurance now specifically bans it as somewhere to drive :(
Preventative measures in business keeps the good times rolling. Love it.
Yes they do
Man, it‘s so nice how you dealt with your customers. Compassionate and dignified. Too bad for the ungrateful few.
When I rented from the Burgstube hotel some years ago they plugged the device in the odb port to monitor for over reving. Don’t see it as a problem and made me respect the car more.
Crazy stories! On the ring i always drove a car which i can easily afford to throw away. If you have to think about the money it's not fun. The same if you got a car which you can't replace easily. I know one guy who took away two GT3 RS. He had to wait for many months to get a new one and was pissed of that.
In Germany we have a saying: Wie man in den Wald hinein ruft, so schallt es auch wieder heraus. Basically how you shout into the woods is how the woods shout back at you. --> If you admitt your faults and are responsible the peole treat you well...most of the time. / Originally it means how you treat others is how they treat you...but as sayings are..they are valid for more than one occaision, I believe. ;-)
love the way you treat your customers.
like no extra charge for camera footage from the yaris. really refreshing way of doing things. would defo come to you guys first.
but is there not any insurance that covers the damage by renting the car? i mean i would never rent a car and take the risk for a 20 000.- euro bill?
Good question...and I totally agree with you.
This constructive attitude explains why you have been successful in business. Thanks for sharing your approach so others can learn from your example.
Hey Robert :)
I´m once more absolutely stunned by how you handle your business and what kind of personality you have. Seeing all the things you do really does help bring and keep people in this hobby, no matter how hard they screw up. We all f**k up at some point but having someone like you guys/girls who are there in this moment really makes a difference I guess. More people sould take you as a role model (even though I dont think you want to hear that ;P ) and learn how to deal with shitty situations on a mature level.
PS the clio storry somehow makes me wana join the apex team.
Thx for being as aweome as always and have a great day :)
How about a community insurance? You could charge 5% extra per round, the money of all cars goes to a bucket. If someone crashes and there was no gross negligence you could support the customer with, lets say, 50% of the actual amount of that bucket, but a maximum of 75% of the damage. This could help reduce the financial burden of the individual that is so unfortunate to crash.
This is what Makes Apex different from others. You give them respect, you get respect. I got a similar thing. An instruction lap in my mx5 and on 3/4 of the lap a sensor malfunction and the engine cuts out. It was my first lap of 4 with instruction. Afterwards they told me i could get my Laps till end of the year. To bad i hadnt the time to Come back. But the gesture was super nice.
The best person and company to deal with when this happens. Thanks for the understand 🙌
No, No, No. Really gets me nervous about renting, which I was already nervous about in the first place.
Genuine man and company. 👍
It's really inspiring to see how you're compassionate and place overall customer experience first, so much so that sometimes it leave you out of pocket.
Also, I hope the Yaris stays on the road, but it'll be interesting to see how you go about determining who'd be responsible to blowing up the engine, say if the most recent customer didn't actually over rev and in fact a customer 5 laps ago did - similar to what happened to yourself where the Yaris went bang after 5 laps.
Respect to you for handling the situations like you did!👍👍
Isn't there some kind of insurance? I mean, you have street legal rental cars, on a legal (private) road. If your customer crashes, no insurance will pay? I know that many insurances have "Touristenfahrten" excluded in their terms but there are still some insurances that include this kind of accidents. At least for non rental cars.
I really thought these kind of rental bussinesses offered a optional insurance of some sort. Are there no insurance companies that have this kind of product?
Not just good business values, but also great people values. Sometimes more important than any financial situation. Good on you for helping someone and having a positive impact in their lives, even if they had a negative impact on your wallet. You seem like a genuine man Robert. Getting settled here now, cooking great meals again and having a place to call home with doggo happy and tail waggy as usual. In my dream house on the salt water shore non the less.. all just from great people with great values. An amazing and giant stepping stone to a much needed rebuild and successful future for myself. Bullying isn't OK at any age and leaves scars some people don't recover from. Be kind.
I’ve always said APEX will be the only place I give my business too if I ever get to the Nurburgring because of how Robert runs it. Absolute legend of a guy!
Tier One Media, but 5 Star service
Thanks Clif!
Robert, you continually renew my faith in humanity and the world. I hope you never lose your sparkle, and positive attitude and understanding.
Very nice of you to make a deal with the kid, but I though there is some insurance on the cars? Or is it the renters responsibility?
That polo story with the kid from the Netherlands warns my heart. You guys are so amazing and understanding.
robert you must have a heart of gold 💛
I think I was at Apex the day the Clio crashed If it was the summer of 2019. If I remember correctly, they had to cut the car open and like a can of tuna and they were airlifted out of there. I remember getting back to the Apex office and Bruno told us about the incident and told us to be super careful. And then we talked about how that was the worst day of the year by far with all the track closures. I think there were well over 10. The green hell delivers
I thought if you crashed a rental car then insurance would pay out? Why were people put on payment plans? I’m genuinely intrigued...
To pay their excess cost, check out the price list and rental terms. If you don’t crash there will be no excess to pay but If you crash then there is an excess to pay. The renter should be covering that cost, not the vehicle owner. It’s no different to a Hertz rental car, well actually yes it is.. Hertz would not be so kind and compassionate as to offer a payment plan to the customer! Apex are just pure class.
Hello Robert, as someone who has been thinking for a while about getting into the "fun cars rental business" here in Japan, I have a quick question for you...
Considering that the cars will be rented out, and in regards to that M4 crash, wouldn't it be more judicious to avoid add-ons like expensive wheels or carbon fiber splitters and similar aero/lightweight/styling mods that mainly just raise the bill when a crash occurs? Back when you did taxi laps, I understand the importance of cool looking mods as a promotion tool for the company, for cars that remain in the hands of people who know what they are doing... But rentals? Either way, enjoying the channel and your stories/point of views, so thank you for all that! Cheers, Flavien
Maybe dumb question, or I've missed an answer elsewhere, but why doesn't the Yaris come with a rev limiter as standard?
Good on you to cut some of the guys a break, but why were they driving a car they couldn't afford to crash in the first place? If I was getting into an M4 with expensive carbon bits on it and I knew I couldn't afford to wreck it, I probably would be driving it as a rolling road block to everyone else. I've never actually rented a car but whenever I looked at a list of rentals I basically went straight for the value/deductible to see which ones I could afford to write off.
Great video. Is there an option to have insurance cover on the rentals before going out on track in case these things occur?
Robert, your people skills and management style never cease to amaze. Thank you for sharing.
Surprising, that there seems to be no insurance? Personally I wouldnt go out in a rental without insurance. Its the green hell after all.
Moral: don't rent these cars unless you can afford to stomach a total loss. I think its pretty poor these guys don't have an insurance policy option for customers.
other rental companies have it. I would never rent a car when I'm liable for 20 or 30k, but hey. people seem to do this. maybe they don't read the terms and conditions. my last rental on the ring was a 330i, and the excess was limited to about 5k, booking additional insurance. that is reasonable in my opinion.
Really useful information again. Nobody intends to crash (I hope) or deliberately wreck an engine. I think this will also have another benefit to your customers, if there is an accident or engine/mechanical problem that is totally not their fault they will also have the evidence.
Absolutely nothing wrong with trusting people, but it has to work both ways.
George’s channel is great by the way, just what we needed to finish of the full picture. Reminds me I need to go and thank him😁
Such a great attitude to take in very awkward conditions, those chats must never be easy. Honesty and integrity go a long way.
Is there a way to buy insurance for the rental? Must be cheaper than the thousands of Euros it would cost to T-bone a railing
The openness with which you deal with these issues is definitely a massive positive about choosing Apex. I don't plan to crash any of your cars but I would feel better if I did so (than anyone else's)...
Very informative. I always guessed there would be an insurance for this with an excess to pay.the thought of owing for a whole car after an incident is quite frightening.
You are correct, there is insurance with an excess. Thanks for watching! :-)
Just something to watch while I wait for the new twistedsymetry video.
You can check the excess on the website when you‘re viewing „car details“.
E.g. Yaris is 25k€.
People should realize things like that maybe before they grab the wheel.
@@SimonEbener suprising Robert didn't address this, as through as he usually is. and with that one more question, Are you saying the first $25,000 of damage the renter is responsible? thanks
@@craftsoda
I can only read whats written down at the website.
Usually - but we talk about street rental now - you can book (extra charge) a cdw/ldw (collision or loss damage waiver) which restricts your own risk.
I dont know if thats possible in this case.
Team member can explain it best :)
I'm blown away by your candor! Just WOW!
You Sir are a Gentleman. Kudos.
I’m surprised that the rental cars don’t have insurance which has the maximum amount (reasonable) of money a customer has to pay if they crash the car. It’s basically a gamble because anything can happen and if you are not loaded, you are basically screwed for years to come...But maybe such insurance would make the rental prises unbearable high so it’s a trade off like everything in life.
Wow!! It’s really great to hear how you work with people!! 👍👍
Is there no option available for customers to purchase insurance beforehand?
I remember when the OG polo was crashed and you got the gti, very cool story from the start of apex.
This is a very reasonable approach to it Robert but the risk of crashing someone else’s car simply isn’t worth it for me and I would never rent a car for a lap. Damaging a 20k euro car would ruin me financially. I’d still love to come and spectate other cars at the ring this summer
An absolute stellar service for the people who are honest. I admire you and the Apex team a lot :)
Most people are reasonable people when stuff happens, unfortunately a minority are not, and it's growing :( Nice to see you guys are definitely on the right side :)
Can I ask, can you not take out insurance etc. I thought this would be the attraction of renting a car out as apposed to using your own car.
Depending on your own car (which most likely is not insured for the Nürburgring), crashing one of these rentals is still cheaper. IIRC a few years ago there was an additional insurance mentioned somewhere that would reduce the excess. The cost for that were around 500-750€ and would more than double most of the rental cost.
I love how you resolved these problems. I remembered when I got a bill for a damaged rental ( not on the ring ), it was 600 euros for a dent I didn't do ( a lot of money for a small dent tbh ). I told them I didn't hit anything during my rental period and I had taken a photo of the car around 40 mins after I picked up the rental where the dent was already there. They didn't believe me.
This was probably my mistake on the negotiation, but I was just tired of dealing with it and just paid their offer of 450 euros. I'm not mad but it left a bad taste in my mouth. And obviously I'm not coming back to them.
The story could've gone better. I love how you value the long term relationship with your customers, and not having people leaving Apex/ Nürburgring with bad experiences.
That sucks man, why couldn't you just send them the pics you took showing the damage and the phone number of your lawyer? If they wanted further proof all the photos (if taken with cell phone) have a date and time tags so you could prove it to them. I wouldn't want to pay for something I didn't do, it's not fair.
@@bokiNYC I never even thought about getting a lawyer ( I'm a student ) I did send them the photo but they argued it was 40 minutes after I took the car ( which it was, but I had no earlier photo ). I'm naturally non confrontative and I didn't know anything else to say, and neither had I the energy to argue, so I just let it go.
Not my problem anymore. It sucks that I lost 450 euros and was left a bad taste in my mouth, but it's in the past anyways.
also I once had a manufacturer paying for a gearbox I blew up under warranty, which was probably more than what I paid for that rental.
Karma strikes I guess 😝
Hey Robert, is there no way to get insurance for the rental cars? There must be a company that insures the Nordschleife aswell?
Robert, you are a gentleman and a scholar
Surprised there's no insurance involved with renting. Guess I expected it to be the same as a rental car 🤣
Robert you are such a down to earth decent guy - respect to you and the Apex team, so many other companies would hire lawyers to recoup all costs let alone just the car like lost income, time spent dealing with it etc. Heartwarming that you work with clients even a free tuition lap and hotel wow well done - Honesty is the best policy and you and Apex are tantamount to that, just like the GR Yaris video you are so honest and down to earth you have my and many others peoples respect - Well done.
Great take away Robert!!! I suspect You have car rental insurance available at the time of renting? A must along with instruction laps! Will be doing it all up when I get there for sure!
Question: Would You ever be interested in sharing the qualities of a good business model? I Really appreciate Your approach to business & how You harmonize business, passion, family, friendships, unifying them all into wonderful memories! Thank You so much for sharing the inspiration Brother! Many smiles per gallon along Your way along with everyone here who comes for a Robert lift... :)
I drove behind the red cupra when it crashed in the first corner. I could not believe it. Good to hear he was a “you break it you pay it” kinda guy. Cheers
'Of course it's always on the last lap'...When you crash it will always be the last lap LOL.
Hehe
Like when people say "you always seem to find things in the last place you look". Well yeah, when you find it you stop looking :)