Tech Talk: Nürburgring, What Tires Do We Use?!?!
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 25 มิ.ย. 2024
- Here is a quick intro into the tires that we use on the Nürburgring and their purpose for us.
Cup 2R
Direzza
Trofeo R
AR1
CUP2
NS2R
PS4S
If you guys want an in-depth discussion on any of the specific tires listed just let me know and we can set it up. Things to talk about are heat management, pressure management, longevity and possible downsides to the tires.
Thanks for all of the support lately!
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Robert - robert_mitchell
Tom - tomstamp
Misha - mgcharoudin
Apex - apexnuerburg - ยานยนต์และพาหนะ
This video is tiring.
Misha Charoudin “shit Misha says”...... “first bad joke of the day”......
Agree just seems to keep going around in circles
how tired are you?
Exhausting.
Отлично
I’d definitely watch three days of pure knowledge about tires.
Something about Robert's voice makes me feel like I'm learning something crucial and makes me feel fulfilled, I have no use for this tire knowledge at all but I love it! haha.
Next time you get new tyres to your car, try something bit too expensive, a bit too premium and sporty. You will like it and understand it very fast.
It’s the emotion he carries with his voice 🤣
@@eedesign878 yh went from pzeros to ps4s way before saw this vid and it transformed the car completely grip levels were incomparable compared to the pzeros
Robert is the kind of guy you'd spend 3 days in a garage with, discussing rubber, and it wouldn't even feel wrong. Great video once again!
😂
tyres always look MASSIVE when theyre not on a car lol
Just like my peepee
@@ThundaAaAaAaAaAh same
considering he is standing and not sitting in the video
And somehow cars look smaller than in videos
I know right! I was about to write the same thing!
All the dudes in the background lmao
Alex Spitzner when they realized they were in the shot😂😂😂
They are all ordering more tyres
"We're on TH-cam!? Let's pace around to get on camera." 🤣
Tyre pressure information would be super interesting
Yes absolutely!!
Yes !
Yes!
Yes that would be great!
Agree
Robert, i really enjoyed the tyre tech talk and how structured you were able to point out pros and cons. Keep up with these great videos!
You know a tyre analysis is OG level when members of N-Sync start strolling around in the background just for the swag.
Haha!!
This video is so helpful Robert! Most of us have access to only one car to take to the track (a 964, in my case). The breadth of your experience with frequent laps, in a variety of cars, riding on a variety of tires, under a broad spectrum of track conditions is unique. From your vantage point, your discussions of technical issues are so enlightening.
From tires, to suspension (as with the Supra), to the wheel rings of the GR2 MR, hearing what you experience and how you think about it is really a gift to those of us with far more limited experience. Please keep these videos coming.
A great balance of performance, reliability, wet grip and longevity is carefully dealt with during real world track usage. Excellent info again Robert!
Another great video! Robert has a black belt in tire knowledge.
Thanks for showing us what tires you're using across your fleet and especially for the elaboration on each one of them. Very interesting, as usual.
You are more than welcome
Now this is what I call, a great tire review. Thx Rob.
@ 5:23 the people in the background made me crack up haha, thank you for this informative video Robert!
We thought it’d be fun to show people in reception beging. Kind of shows some life:-)
I could listen to this for hours! Great video! Driving over from Ireland so I’ll go for the NS 2R. This video genuinely helped me get the right tyre!
When it comes to tire tech talk, you're the person I'd DEFINITELY listen to and would take advice from on which tires work or don't work very well. I'm extremely surprised you guys use Nankang tires. I've seen that name here in the States, but I've never seen or have ever heard of anyone using that brand. In fact, all of the Nankang tire offerings I've seen advertised here are cheap, normal, all-season, regular commuter car tires. I was surprised to just now learn about those AR1s, which I don't believe are sold here in the U.S. I had no idea Nankang offered track performance tires until seeing this video. Great content, man!
Appreciate how you just speak of your mind with just your knowledge & experience. Would love to watch one episode on Suspensions 🙌🏼
Thank you for the kind words. We can do a suspension one for sure
Thanks Robert, exactly the comparison I was after without bias or Keyboard warrior BS.
Glad you enjoyed!!
Delicious that Tech Talk video!
The PS4s is a genius tyre for everyday every weather use, well aside from snow, and you could also be happy with it on a track day. Thanks for the review.
TH-cam doesn't deserve your informative and straight to the point content. Hats off to you Robert.
Haha thx!
Thank you, Robert. I ordered my PS4S set last week and now feel better about the purchase. Look forward to seeing how they'll improve my track experience.
I think you’re going to be pleased w them!
Awesome tech talk!! Wish u guys all the best and hope to enjoy the experience with such a committed company!! VIVA APEX
Thanks for this. It helped me settle on Cup2 when I was chasing 'Ring lap times on my M2. It worked in the wet, though I would say it's still edgy, and was able to get me to 7:52 BTG lap, and 7:47 pace. Thanks for this, good video! Definitely happy with that.
Massive thanks for the informative videos Robert, highly appreciated!
Anytime!!!
Channel keeps getting better and better
Thanks for the info!
Thank you!!!!!
I've got the NS2R on my GT86. After 2 solid track days and a year plus daily driving it's still got so much left in them. Amazing value for these and are fairly affordable too. Just has lots of road noise though but you can live with that easily.
all semi's are loud, I lived with ar-1 in half stripped clio sport 2.0
Plese what compound do you drive? There are at least two availible and more coming... Thanks!!!
@@aczech12 I daylied my fully stripped c2 rally car with ar1‘s for 2 weeks, I’m glad I never have to do it again 😅
@@zdeneksimonik2247 softer is better
Couldn't be more useful and informative!
The michelins are really durable looking at the performance. Had the same experience with the PS4 from Michelin (the more street than performance oriented version compared to the PS4S).
Bought a set in 2018, did 40.000km at least with it, including 3 trackdays. My parents did 60k with a set on their family car. They are a bit more expensive than most other brands, but much more durable than my former experiences (bridgestone/pirelli/vredenstein). Your way of using tyres is very different to most 'normal' people, but it gives a good indication. Great video
Michelin's also dry up and age very poorly. Old Michelin's, especially winter tires, gave me the scariest driving experiences ever.
@@PolishAlexx Dry is from aging and rot is from light, but no Michelin tires are not specific to that problem, i had 3 set of Michelin ALL seasons/PS2/CUP2 all were forgotten in a dark place not too wet not to dry and only PS and CUP dried (no rot, no damage), the rubber "quality" and additives are doing that.
@@PolishAlexx Anglais
Totally wrong! You only had to store them in the recommended conditions ...stop generalizing also it's really annoying
I don't care about how well they keep of stored properly. Alexander is absolutely correct when they are on the car. Due to the pandemic, bad weather, etc.,, we lost or missed most of our local track days over the past year and a half. Most of the miles on my PS4S have been highway miles (to places like The Dragon) along with trips back and forth of the Cherohala Skyway. Halfway through their usable tread life, they are beginning to look dry rotted and cracked. The last set did the same on our other car.
This is not at all new. Many of us have heard this from other drivers as well as tire shops. When I ordered the PS4S for my vehicle, the dealer asked how long they'd be on the car and then I think they would last more than 2 years. He said it was because even if they aren't worn out at the 2-year mark, I'll probably need to replace them specifically due to a known issue with Michelin tires, that they don't hold up long term.
It's meaningless to me because I never get close to 2 years out of a set of summer tires. But let's please not pretend that shortcomings often exist even among the very best products.
Brillliant video Mr Mitchell, that is a very useful guide. You have convinced me the NS2R is probably the next tyre for my Mk2 Escort.
I use them, and lets say.. xcept from noise.. nothing bad to say ;) all good
Great video again Robert ... thanks, i love your detailed video´s
Thnx Robbert, i posted my questions before i finished the video, at the end i had al my questions awnserd!!! So i could remove my questions again. Keep up the good work!!!
Haha thx!!!! Glad it answered some questions hope the info can help you out
Great video very educational i run cup2 on my m2c and very pleased with them
Great video! Always been wondering what you guys use, cool that you praise and use nankang! Not just clinging on the more expensive tires!
Enjoyed that Robert. Thanks for taking the time to share your thoughts.
My Pleasure
What would you run for street use on a BMW 320? I really like the informative nature of the videos, no waffle anywhere, straight to the point.
To be the opposite of a tyre dealer is such a cool thing!
Great video and great choice. Love the Michelin 4S. Great as entry or daily driver tyre.
It is a wonderful tire
Really enjoying the new content Robert👍🏻
Thank you!!!
Since the PS4S come stock with the Kia Stinger GT Limited, I'm really happy that you talked a little bit about them. Makes me feel confident that as a daily driver tire with external temps varying between 0 C and 20 C 9 months per year (3 months being from 0 C to -45C), this seems like a solid "summer" tire for me and my rare spirited drives.
I'll probably get another set of these instead of looking elsewhere.
Awesome info, thank you!
I'd have to say that the Michelin Cup 2 R surprised me, simply based on the tread design, having 3 big siping grooves, yet still being so insanely fast. The Direzza we cannot get in the states (that particular model), so interesting to hear about that, especially the pressures. Even on the M3, let alone the S2k, my starting pressures are 26PSi (1.79 bar), so prettty scary, hah.
Based on your guys running them, i had actually picked up some NS-2Rs for the M3. They were, at the time, hard to find in the US, with the AR-1s not being available at all. I've not done as much tracking and haven't experienced as many different types of tires, so it took some getting used to, going from your more 'normal' 340TW Continental Street Tire.
Had way too much pressure in it, due to the stiff sidewalls. It's night and day compared to a street tire. The Nankangs were also a good bit heavier than other tires, cannot say how much though. First experience was in the wet a mid 40 Fahrenheit (7 Celsius or so) at Road Atlanta and it was an adventure... Between the wet and the low temps i was unable to get heat into them. That said, in the dry and heat of Georgia summers, they held up to many many trackdays, eventually starting to chunk near the end of their life, with decent tread left still. Definitely a great value for money option (Prices have shot up last year, so the value proposition almost went away here, sadly), consistent and long lasting. There now is also a 200TW option for the US market, so you can run them in Time Attack and racing classes more easily.
Now debating between the AR-1 and the NT01 (Don't think those are available in Europe) to practice consistency. Seems like the AR-1s would fit the bill there.
Would definitely like to see more tire 'tests' or feedback. It's hard to beat the data you guys get from all the Taxi and Rental laps. Would love to see, for example, how the NS-2R compares to the Falken 615K+ and the Hankook RS4, which are some of the favorite Grassroots Endurance Racing tires here.
Thank you again!
THIS IS PRICELESS INFO! I dug through whole web a few weeks ago and you cannot find comparison of these tires ANYWHERE. If you could test them in dry conditions to also see the difference in seconds that would be massive.
Also, like you said. Perhaps you have an opionion on some of the alternatives:
1) Cheap semi slicks: Nankang NS2R in dry vs Westlake Sport RS vs Federal RSRR
2) Nankang AR1 & Sport Cup 2 vs Yoko A048 vs Yoko A050 vs Yoko A052
I recently got the PS4S on my 10th gen SI an they've been awesome so far!
Very good video, alot of info in a short time. I wish my school teachers where this articulate and knowledgeable.
great video Robert would have been interesting to have some sort of comparison on costs as well . Keep up the great videos
great video robert, i bought AR1s last year and then brought them to the ring, they are really good, (e46 m3)
Another good video Robert 👌
This video was super informative! I actually just drove the Nurburgring for the first time on June 13th 2020 and I loved it! I actually just picked up a set of NS2R’s this week for my car and how you explained it is exactly how I plan on using it. Drive to the ring, have good performance for my skill level and car, and be okay if it does rain 🤘🏼
I also subbed to your channel and I’d love to meet you if possible next time we come out to the ring
Thank I for the sub and most important congrats on your first ring lap!!!!! Keep on those tires for a bit and later on you’ll look for a semi slick. What car are you running?
Robert Mitchell appreciate that man thank you! One of the coolest experiences ever. I’m running my Vr6 swapped mk3 Jetta I brought from Florida. It’s my first car and I got it back in 2011 so it’s quite crazy to now have it here in Germany.
Haven't even watched it fully, but great video once again.
Awesome as usual Robert. Very interesting. The 4S has to be one of the greats for road cars with the excellent wet weather ability.
Thank you for the kind words. Agree. 4S is very versitile
Great video Robert, that’s a heck of a lot of lost rubber there! Always explained so well. I’m sorry for my delayed views as LOVED watching you and a Misha on a daily, but I lost a very good friend so it’s been hard. Keep up the great work!
Hey man I’m really sorry to hear about your friend. Thoughts to you and his family
Fantastic, thank you very much for that synopsis
Anytime
Really insightful video, keep it up! 🤟
Hi @Robert Mitchell, thank you so much for such a great channel, brilliant delivery too, so easy and enjoyable to listen to you. Always pragmatic, balanced, fair and unusually with those traits, to the point as well. So, QQ. For an 2017 F12 Berlinetta for fast spirited street use and grand tour use, alpine passes, etc. which would you recommend Pirelli P Zero or Michelin PS 4S? I use Sotto Zeros in winter months, and I'm in the UK. Many thanks again.
Thank you for this, it was great to hear your thoughts on the PS4S compared to the NS2R. Both tyres I've run before (on road), and to be honest the NS2R was a lot more fun (if noisy >.< ). I'll be buying another set of NS2R again.
I've watched the video because i'm planning to put the nsr2. Thanks!
Perfect tires review!
Content is getting better by the day Rob.
Glad you’re enjoying!!!
Thx for a very informative video.. will share this.. since im a tire guy and a lot of people ask me.. will use this as refrence
I really enjoy all the videos. Very clear, informative and right to the point. What tyre would you recommend for an M2. I use the cup 2 now. But am always interested in other opinions!
13:37 video length.🙌
I agree, it was too short for real drivers.
Such a useful and helpful video - thank you!
New sub here. Watched a couple of your vids so far. I’ll save the rest for Friday night and finish the rest up while enjoying a couple of drams of high end Bourbon. Can’t wait for both.
Awesome to hear. I hope you enjoy I’ll do my best to keep some better than crap vids coming for you guys!
I’d love to hear your thoughts on the Yokohama A050 if you ever get a chance. It’s the tyre of choice for serious track cars in Australia. The AR1 is almost half the price and surprisingly just as fast, so it has become an amazing budget option.
Keep up the excellent work, your knowledge and experiences are very helpful.
I have a Pilot Sport 4 on my VW CC and this is a fantastic tyres in the dry and in the wet. Really like them👍
Fantastic inside as always, keep this up!
By any chance you've used federal RSR/RSRR and where they stack up among these you presented? New face channel btw. Keep it up!
Thank you!!!! And have fun in the CC:-)
I’ve not tried the RSR(R). Not against it tho as so many have asked
I just fit a set of PS4S to my 996 Turbo and they are fantastic.
This was really cool. I learned a few things!
In addition Bridgestone RE-71r I've used on track great grip!
A detailed video on the Nankang Ar-1’s would be great as there not a whole lot info on them
Direct competitor for AR-1 is a Federal FZ201. Similar sizes and prices
Not a lot info on them tho...
ive gone through about 10 sets of ar1s on the track and street great tyre for beating on. they stand up to abuse and put down decent times.
run great on low pressures as well, they are heavy tire but thats probably because of how thick that sidewall is.
I agree. Its all over the amateur scene with people who sponsor themselves. Definitelly thinking of buying them! Although I might go with the other Nankang thats better in the wet for that extra security because I like to be capable in all conditions.
Second
Great video with some good insight, tyre pressure info would be good (region at least as will differ) but also good to know a bit more info on how suitable they are road wise as well to know if they are good enough occasional road use or pure track
Quality content !
Great video again!
Ironically, as we moved toward the slower tires, I increased the playback speed.
Solid talk on tire performance!
great video robert👍🏻 i can recommend as well a eagle f1 asym5 for wet ... real good i think
Got a set of PS4S in the garage waiting to be swapped from my winters(still on from Covid) on my M135i. Great tyres for British roads and weather.
PS4S in 235/40 18“ ?
Nice vid, thanks for the input.
The PS4S really are superb in the wet. Best road tyres for a performance car here in the UK (where it's always raining!)
100-% agree!!!! Love it in the wet
Michelin Pilot Sport best tyre I used so far, but damn expensive. I also switched from a 17" 35 to a 16" 45 which impacted the ride comfort very much
Fascinating video - interesting to hear how you run separate sets of PS4Ss on the taxis so you can tally wet and dry laps separately. It’s little touches like that which show how seriously you take customer safety!
One question (of many tbh), when you talk about “changing” tyres on say the E92 or the McLarens, do you always change all 4 corners or sometimes just the fronts? I run a rwd car on Cup 2’s and seem to be chewing through 3 front (specifically front left) tyres per set of rears. Am I doing something wrong?
Cool review!Very useful👍
Curious on knowing a bit more on reliability on these tires! Knowing that, a tire might delaminate on certain (even if because of missuse) scenarios is something scary! I'm really loving this channel and it's content!
I can do just that!!! Glad you’re enjoying the vids:-)
Great info!
Would love to hear more about the Direzza!
Hi Robert, another great vid. Love these tech talks and insides from race enviroment 👍🏻
I would like to ask what is difference between these semislicks, fastest with E mark and full slick.
How much more grip and response can full slick provide?
Also, im about to buy second set of rims just for track. Now im runnin cup2 for road and also track. Which of these tires is best bang for buck in your opinion? I rlly like these ar1, lot of people around me liked them.
Comparsion of direzza vs. ar1? just for track use
Thanks!
This is my new favourite channel on youtube now! Extremely informative and no bs. Robert, can you do a video on rim width and the appropriate width tyre to use on that rim for the widest contact patch, most accurate turn in etc.
Great suggestion this is something that we can certainly do!!! and welcome to the channel and thank you for being a part of it
Robert Mitchell thats awesome! Looking forward to that video. Thank you for making these informative videos.
No drama, No BS, just unadulterated opinion. Getting this kind of content from someone with this much experience is appreciated!
Doing a great service to we all.
At the end it's all about the rubber.
Thanks for a very useful information.
👍👍👍
HaHa Robert I see you felt the 'Pressure' to 'Tread' more carefully and not 'Spin' up the trolls. BOOOM! Take that Misha! Mike drop!
Lol.
@@RobertMitchell Misha ordered some Nitto NT01 tires from the USA awhile back, what car were they used on and thoughts on the Nitto NT01 tires.
Brilliant review! I will look for the AR-1 now. I am using RE71R as they are a good deal from Costco in Canada, and are almost acceptable in the wet and great in the dry on the track. I found I didn't get huge life out of the PSS4s and they were no where near as grippy as the RE71R, despite having great wet characteristics (although not as good as the Continental ContiforceContact, which were the best in the wet bar none, but hopeless on a dry track when compared to the RE71R).
Good info! Excited to see what you think of The ar1
I use the PS 4S on both of my cars on the ring (M4 and 991 GTS). Sounds like I do everything right.
Miss the videos like this!
Great video Robert!
So few people realise how a tyre can make or brake a car and your enjoyment!
I love PS4S on my Cayman 718GTS. Never puts a foot wrong. (Road use)
Question for you though.....
Is there a tyre that you had high hopes for, that you fitted to a car, but had to remove, as it was so poor / bad for the application?
What´s the worst tire you ever used on a sportscar? :)
Great info, looks like Michelin 4S was a good choice to go for on my over 2.2-tonne AMG S63 with 780HP. Thx!
This is the first video I’ve watched of yours and I’m loving your channel already. Curious to if you have tried any tyres from zestino?
I’m glad you’re liking it. Hope to see you around more often:-)
My experience is for supercars the homologated tyre (and its super sports option version) are always best for a period of around 3-4 years. Pirelli and Michelin for example stagger the release of their products for a given fit so they don’t directly compete. My F430 was homologated on Pirelli which was the choice until they homologated a newer generation Michelin tyre... i expect soon a new Pirelli will take overs as best solution next cycle.
Great information
Great video 👍🏼👍🏼🏁‼️
Great video