My Uncle had a 69 Z28 302 stage 2 with a 4 speed. I was just a kid but I remember it well. An absolutely beautiful piece of Art. It was very fast. I miss the old days when life still held promise and 302s were giant killers.
For sure... I had a .020 302, 12.5:1 short compression height pistons running total seal gapless rings, 6" crower rods, and a crower custom solid roller with a 636 gross lift intake and exhaust with a 277 duration intake and a 282-284 on the exhaust on a 112 centerline it made 517 @ 6850 with a stock 618 block. I didn't ask Dave Crower for the engine to make a dyno number I asked him to make a 69 Z28 run like a scalded dog on the street with a 4 spd and 4.10's and still operate power brakes...
That is actually a pretty good deal for the time, effort, and parts costs involved for a reliable 450hp road race engine that can take a beating day in and day out with no worries.
@hpjunky70 Engine was built for road racing, customer wanted limited horsepower and torque, but spin 9000 rpm, and wanted a Chevy V8. With more compression and a few other tweeks, this engine would make 550-600 horsepower.
I have a 350 I'm building to run to about 7000 rpm. I've been trying to find a video with a similar SBC running up to as much or more. Thank you for this. You've made my last 4 days of searching worth it.
Past 6500 you need 6 inch rods. That's your first clue. John lingenfelter too 2 350s. One he built to a 383 and another a 302. The 302 went into a Firebird and the 383 a camaro. Bothe had the same drivetrain and suspention. The 302 hit 185 MPH the 383 hit 180. He said the 383 was done and the 302 could have gone further.
My older brother had a 69 z28 with the 302 that he bought new. Where he bought it, we had 60 miles to drive to get it home. That was one wild ride for a 12 and 19yo. Not much power off idle, but wind it up and we flew down that old highway. :D
Richard Conley 4inch bore(same as 327 and 350) x 3inch stroke (283) equals 302cui. ALL genuine 1st gen Z28 packaged camaros had DZ302 engines and 4spds to comply with SCCA Trans am homologation rules.
If you're using race gas, you go oversquare (big bores, small stroke) so the pistons don't have to accelerate so much, and so you can fit cylinder heads that have big valves, so you get better flow on the same lift. You go with a higher compression (only if it's a big difference like from 8.5:1 87 octane to 11:1 91 octane, otherwise one point won't help much). HP/cu in isn't the best though. It's about hp/cfm
My 302 chevy had double bump heads with solid cam and 6" corillos. Ran 8000rpm on the street most days I ran it. Best engine combo ever. Used a quadrajet on dual plane, mallory disy and turned down 350 pistons. Block was a 4 bolt converted 283 1958 vintage. Crank was std forged unit balanced for the rods. Fell in love with the 302 chev for light cars. 600hp if you want to spend a little money. Mine was around 400.
Yep, We ran 283's for years in the race boats, and dominated, but we had the props matched to power output at around 6000 rpm's. Back in tthose days thats all we could get out of a points distributor before the points floated. Points were a rule. 283 same crank as a 302. They made large and small journal size.
I read the comment about the F3000 car. The "WTF" led me to suspect that you weren't open to the benefits of a small-block. I should have considered the possible fact that if you're looking at high revving smallblocks, you're probably an advocate of them, or just love the sound.
The engine might have been built to make a constant amount of horsepower, say for the 500hp club. When you shift, you land somewhere with less horsepower. That means that the engine isn't doing as much work as it can.
Built a 327 with hydraulic lifters in mid 70s. Ran 7500 rpm at shift. Didn't know enough, accidentally built one with no low end torque. Wasn't really the cam I should've used. Never did float, even missing my shift point.
A small block in a F1 car????? Only a complete dumbass would put a small block chev against other cars with 4 bangers and V6 engines that put out 3 times the horse power this motor ever would do.
I think 302Traco's in pulled 425Hp 7000 Rpm. Stock crank & rods Mondello Iron heads,Thompson 12.5 pistons,MT rockers,238Engle ,MagurkTri drive Drysump,Hillborn inj.36° timing all engines met No. Before shipped.some did it easy some needed more tuning.I forgot theses were Methanol burners.
i`ve owned 68-69 and 70 model z/28s -owned the 69 over 21 yrs and you would not believe how many of the younger generation kids ask why i had a ford engine in a camaro
? So, tell us smart chevy people. Why was the 283 a great engine for a street car and the 302 not ? They are similar engines. So where as the head cam intake carb combination was perfect for the 283, it was not for the 302. Imagine a 302 and a powerglide ? Put the heads from a 283 on a 302, then it should run fine ? I realize the 302 was a special order race engine and all the associated parts. The 283 had less piston friction and a lighter piston and was happy with a powerglide. I think the 283 was chevys happy accident or was it well planned out ? If I were to make a choice I'd have to go with a 283. I realize the 302 was not a street engine and was built for racing, but the 283 was in the day a better street engine. Rather have a 64 283 Chevelle 4 speed than a 67 302 Camaro. Down the street from me a 67 Camaro with that 302 in it has been sitting in a neighbor's garage for 40 years. It's really dusty and I opened the hood and tried to turn it over. It's stuck. No hole out the side of the block. I recognize the factory highrise intake and holley carb that came on those DZ engines. I'm not a chevy guy but I may get around to buying the car before the lady crooks.
@@williamsidas9349 if it was that easy and I was a chevy buff, I would have taken the cam out and replaced it with one from a 283 so it would have better street manners.
A 302 or a l88 for that matter is drivable in a light vehicle with the correct gears and a manual transmission. These cars were performance oriented and each manufacturer had a similar product in order to qualify for certain racing criteria. Yes you could replace the cam and build more torque ,but at that time at the expense of horse power . With today's grinds there could be a better compromise ,but you have to take into account cylinder head flow and compression ratio before any changes should be made .
I am 65 and had a 69 Z-28 and knew a few other people who had them, a dissapointment on the street to say the least. I built a 67 RS Camaro Yenko clone with a 427/425, 456 gears, a 4 speed and with a junk Holley 780 and some traction EASY 12.7 at 110 mph, a guy who raced told me with a 800/850 and the single plane like the Tarantula instead of the dual plane 12.4 or better no problems at all, that stock solid cam idled decent nad a smooth power band and revved high for a camshaft from that day
piston speed on a street stock car should not exceed 4,000 fpm and at 9,000 rpm a 302 would only need a mild build,a 302 at 9,000 rpm has a piston speed of 4,500 FPM
@@cncmotorsports I did just not impressed sorry. I'm a Chevy guy also . Was hoping for more power than that for all that you got in it. I mean you can get a very mild 350 to do that pump gas without all the aftermarkets and a stock block. Don't take it the wrong way I'm not criticizing you I just figured with aftermarket block aftermarket heads aftermarket intake and so on and so forth I would be looking at the number somewhere around 7 to 800 naturally aspirated
@@greenboyatgafarms2250 rpm also equals top speed ,you may make the same hp but at a lower rpm not able to attain the top speed especially in a light vehicle.
IF I remember correctly the 302 have a VERY tight timing window. If you were outside that window even a degree , the power would drop like a rock. That usually explains why a lot of guys said that the 302 would not make power. A lot of guys would pick up a car at the races with a 302 that the owner said made no power. Come back with the car a week later and it was screaming, only change was timing. Easy money.
I stuck a 302 out of a built z28 that rolled into a 80's monza spyder. 0 to 100 in 7.6 seconds after a nine inch and alot of rubber under that little car.
My dad has a story about the 1969 Z/28 he owned back in the day. The guy he bought it from couldn’t get it out of the 16’s. It was set up too! 4.88 gears and all. After my dad tuned it, it ran consistent 12.80’s at 108 mph on slicks.
This has to be the 305 I created but with deffense heads with the rods created with the devideing line created of the offense destroked engine and parts witch were recreated to fit the jouranl sizes of its wideness and its widths with the subtration of the devideing line of the deffense rods of the offense engine off of the walls subtraction that creates the flexuation of more destroked compression off of the valves that creates a cemestry of differnet combustion of compresion flexuating in differnt momentums of low mid and high and still produces enough compression to still lift and allow the valves to open open up back and forth as tge rods and the crank is turning moving and traveling threw the walls of offense and deffense travelence in differnt time frames of fast travel that builds the heart beat of the engine and its impulses of how a engine breeds and feels of its up lifts and its heart beats....then how it all creates offense and deffense threw out all of the grafidey skellitol thoughts and visions tjen with the ex 327 69 big journal cam.....
Small engines can make the power of larger engines but need more revs to do it. It is the same as small high speed bullets can hit as hard as heavier lower speed bullets. In some ways the heavier bullet has the advantage because it retaines energy and fires on a flatter trajectory. In some ways the bigger engine has it as it has a broader spread of torque. Each has its own advantages and disadvantages.
Had a built 305 I took to 7,000 on a regular basis, quit making power around 6,500,damn thing had 354,000 miles on it when I junked it,really suprised me it went that long....maybe it was the 15w50 mobil 1?
Why would anyone order a 302 cid Chevy from the other side of the Atlantic Ocean and have it tuned down? Makes no sense? Beef up the drive train . The 302 doesn't make huge torque but screams on demand! This build makes no sense.
Because the owner wanted a Chevy V8, high rpm and low torque for a vintage formula one car. You cannot apply high American V8 torque to a formula chassis and drive train or you'll break everything in its path.
it's 4" x 3". Short stroke motors can rev up because the shorter stroke has a lower mean piston speed. A theoretical maximum Mean Piston Speed (MPS) is 4100ft/min (fpm). It is just theoretical and can be exceeded but now esoteric components start becoming necessary.
These engines are incredible. If I'm correct and memory serves me well they came stock with a 13-14:1 compression ratio. The only thing bad about these motors is the low end trq which I understand they were built for high RPM track racing but jeez. Imagine this motor producing great trq around 38-4200 rpm....would be an animal for sure. Already is though lol
Cpurk198527@gmail Metalmonster i dont give a shot what he said ! 9000 rpm will do massive friction wear to that engine, lets see him break it down now and see the rings and bearings
you need to educate yourself my friend,9000 rpm isn't that high.the dry sump oiling on this engine will let it live at 9000 rpm for many,many races without any damage.the 1968-69,70 scca(sports car club of america) had a racing series with pony cars from ford,chevy,amc and chrysler and they could not exceed 302 cubic inches on any of them. in the late sixties and early 70's you could see aar cudas racing against z28 camaro's, pontiac trans ams and amx's along side with boss 302 mustangs and t/a challengers and all these cars revved way over 7000 rpm.when you race and want to win you have to build a car with forged internals (pistons,crank,connecting rods etc)a dry sump oiling system that prioritizes the oiling and keeps critical components living in this wickedly high revving small block engines.
@cncmotorsports.$20k, huh... Soooo... What kind of road course engine would you build with a similar budget and very few restrictions? (say about $15-20k). Something that can be beat like a mule and still come back for more.
Easily. Ever heard of Ritchie Zul? Martin and Zul, Black and Zul. He was best friends with Grumpy. I lived 100 yds from his cousin Steve. His cousin Steve was best friends with the son of the owner of Dzus Fasteners. To raise money for racing, Ritchie sold aircraft fasteners to the racers. Yup, he started the whole thing. I used to sit on the corner and watch him run down Broadway in lindenhurst. In a year and a half he turned a stock 66 Nova 327 into a 9 second car. I later worked next to him. He used to eat his cousin's 396 Chevelle for breakfast. He buit the factory racing Mercury Boat engines for probably 30 years. The 100 HP big blocks and such. He was at the time considered the fastest shifter in the world and they advertized that for National Speedway and such.
Why run the engine at 9 grand when peak power is closer to 8?? Isn't that kind of pushing it where there is no advantage unless just more speed is wanted
cncmotorsports When you mentioned that there was a lot of power left in the combo... About what are we talking about? I'm working towards a small-displacement engine for SCCA competition (under 5100cc, or 311cid). I'm curious what kind of power/torque you'd expect to make without the drivetrain limitations.
@@TLWiltman look up some of the insanity guys do with 283s then make some calculations from there on in and you should come up with a vague number of what a na 302 can do.
A chevy smallblock is much more compact than many engines on the market, pretty much all, really. It's smaller than an nissan VQ35 V6, and weighs less as well, that is if it's an aluminum smallblock.
No horse power was lost, the engine was built to the customers needs. When the customer is spending that kind of money, ($20,000) he decides how much power he wants. As stated, repeatedly in the video, the rest of the drive train in the car COULD NOT TAKE MORE POWER AND TORQUE. Pay attention to what is being said in these videos.
My build is a nice budget build... LS2 block ($800), 4.005 bore x 3.268 stroke (crank and rods out of 4.8L $200, custom pistons with strong wrist pins $800), ARP rod bolts ($100,) ls2 heads ported ($600, porting was free diy,) cam ($350,) titanium Valves ($800), spring kit($250,) solid lifters ($500,) pushrods ($150,) head bolts ($300,) ported intake Mani and tb (free diy.) I think that's all of it. Can rev to 8k no issues. If I lighten the valvetrain more I'm confident it can go much higher. Much more fun than any stroker I've built...
Sorry Zach you are wrong. First, a 383 is not a magic engine. My other 1/2 has a 434 small block makes in excess of 500 hp. The 302 built by Smokey Yunick in the 70s using all GM parts except intake and headers made 465 hp. That's 40 years ago before we could buy excellent after market heads
AngryDuckSoup 465 is not 500. and i said the only engine that i know of that can do it is a 383, if we are talking small blocks. i own two that are both 500 horse
A 302 with after market heads(like AFR 210s) it will make way more than 500 hp. I just told you we have a 434 that makes way more than 500 hp. A 383 is not magic. Post your engines specs I bet you don't make 500 hp?
AngryDuckSoup its not surprising to me that you were able to make more than 500hp out of 434 cubes. i dont care if you dont believe me about my 383s, its a pretty easy platform to get 500hp out of.
A Stock Chevy 302 with the factory insides will do 9,800 rpm and no after market stuff needed inside the engine. They live for ever. That must have been a destroked 350 to make a 302. It would have been cheaper to find a 327 small journal and a 283 engine swap the 283 crank into the 327. Buy 302 pistons for it. A 2 bolt main 327 will do 9,000 rpm for years without a problem. Destroked to 302.
I can totally see a "stock" block low cube handling 9,000+ RPM; I've heard of this before. Unfortunately, you have to run modifications to the fuel system. From the stories I've heard, it basically took a carb tune and you're turning crazy RPM. I've heard 8,000+ RPM isn't uncommon with some knowledge.
I've have physically seen (not heard or pictured in my mind's eye) 8,000rpm from a nearly stock 302, but 9,800 from a stock 302 (no aftermarket stuff) is bullshit. That guy either doesn't know what he's talking about, or he's a liar. Be careful what you say around people who really know stuff or they're going to think you're like Chris Dotson.
The engine was built for this car 4 years ago, Great people to work with, and their Magic bullet treatment really works. www.addthemagicbullet.com/file/2014/11/10686852_1465284363733735_1397063839650786407_n.jpg
they made them from 1967 to 1969.the 1967 302 I think had the small crankshaft journals and the 1969 had the large journal,the 1968 302 could be found with either large or small journal.the 1969 DZ block is the most famous of the 302 Chevy.
Brother, when the computer screen says 8250 rpm, that's all the enthusiasm we need. Good stuff.
My Uncle had a 69 Z28 302 stage 2 with a 4 speed. I was just a kid but I remember it well. An absolutely beautiful piece of Art. It was very fast. I miss the old days when life still held promise and 302s were giant killers.
Cool but never was a Stage 2.... Sorry.
No such thing as a stage 2.
@@canusakommando9692 Don’t recall a stage 2 302. One of the camshafts was a second design racing cam.
600+ with no restrictions. This engine here was designed for the 450 horsepower mark and no torque.
For sure... I had a .020 302, 12.5:1 short compression height pistons running total seal gapless rings, 6" crower rods, and a crower custom solid roller with a 636 gross lift intake and exhaust with a 277 duration intake and a 282-284 on the exhaust on a 112 centerline it made 517 @ 6850 with a stock 618 block. I didn't ask Dave Crower for the engine to make a dyno number I asked him to make a 69 Z28 run like a scalded dog on the street with a 4 spd and 4.10's and still operate power brakes...
@@TheJagjr4450 that's a badass setup.........
Oh how glorious it would be at 9/10ths 600hp screaming for miles and miles
That is actually a pretty good deal for the time, effort, and parts costs involved for a reliable 450hp road race engine that can take a beating day in and day out with no worries.
@hpjunky70
Engine was built for road racing, customer wanted limited horsepower and torque, but spin 9000 rpm, and wanted a Chevy V8. With more compression and a few other tweeks, this engine would make 550-600 horsepower.
I have a 350 I'm building to run to about 7000 rpm. I've been trying to find a video with a similar SBC running up to as much or more. Thank you for this. You've made my last 4 days of searching worth it.
Past 6500 you need 6 inch rods. That's your first clue. John lingenfelter too 2 350s. One he built to a 383 and another a 302. The 302 went into a Firebird and the 383 a camaro. Bothe had the same drivetrain and suspention. The 302 hit 185 MPH the 383 hit 180. He said the 383 was done and the 302 could have gone further.
I'm gonna say your gonna need a descent light weight valve train and a cam that makes power up top check with isky and victory one valve components
Camshaft is the limiter you can only rec as fast at it will allow before floating valves
My older brother had a 69 z28 with the 302 that he bought new. Where he bought it, we had 60 miles to drive to get it home. That was one wild ride for a 12 and 19yo. Not much power off idle, but wind it up and we flew down that old highway. :D
A Chevy with a 302 huh? Sounds like bullshit to me.
Its really like a 327 with a 283 crank, but yes its a chevy engine with 302 CI
Chevy produced 302 engines in the 60s.....
Richard Conley
4inch bore(same as 327 and 350) x 3inch stroke (283) equals 302cui. ALL genuine 1st gen Z28 packaged camaros had DZ302 engines and 4spds to comply with SCCA Trans am homologation rules.
Talisman1957 Cool to learn this..I was brought up that 302/351 is ford and 305/350 is chevy..learned something new here honestly..thanks all
Skip all the way to 2:12 for the actual video.
If you're using race gas, you go oversquare (big bores, small stroke) so the pistons don't have to accelerate so much, and so you can fit cylinder heads that have big valves, so you get better flow on the same lift. You go with a higher compression (only if it's a big difference like from 8.5:1 87 octane to 11:1 91 octane, otherwise one point won't help much). HP/cu in isn't the best though. It's about hp/cfm
My 302 chevy had double bump heads with solid cam and 6" corillos. Ran 8000rpm on the street most days I ran it. Best engine combo ever. Used a quadrajet on dual plane, mallory disy and turned down 350 pistons. Block was a 4 bolt converted 283 1958 vintage. Crank was std forged unit balanced for the rods. Fell in love with the 302 chev for light cars. 600hp if you want to spend a little money. Mine was around 400.
never happened
Well youre here you so you obviously happened. Accident maybe ?
This motor was about $20,000 but included the dry sump, carb and other parts.
Thanks, I believe we have this fixed with our newer postings.
I always liked 302s, wind um upstairs and reliable as a mutt dog.
Yep, We ran 283's for years in the race boats, and dominated, but we had the props matched to power output at around 6000 rpm's. Back in tthose days thats all we could get out of a points distributor before the points floated. Points were a rule. 283 same crank as a 302. They made large and small journal size.
I read the comment about the F3000 car. The "WTF" led me to suspect that you weren't open to the benefits of a small-block. I should have considered the possible fact that if you're looking at high revving smallblocks, you're probably an advocate of them, or just love the sound.
The engine was built for a customer in Ireland, It is a Formula one looking car, but they actually call if an F2000.
The engine might have been built to make a constant amount of horsepower, say for the 500hp club. When you shift, you land somewhere with less horsepower. That means that the engine isn't doing as much work as it can.
Correct diff gearing and converter { if atou } would help that .
I bet this was a nerve wracking yet rewarding build, as is with all high winding small block builds
Love the DZ 302 stroke
I know this video is 11 years old but can anyone tell me the lengths of the steps of tose headers? Theyre schoenfelds..
I noticed you left out a Critical bit of info. Like " camshaft , lift, duration, lobe center line angle, ect. ect "
luv them sbc
Awesome !!
Built a 327 with hydraulic lifters in mid 70s. Ran 7500 rpm at shift. Didn't know enough, accidentally built one with no low end torque. Wasn't really the cam I should've used. Never did float, even missing my shift point.
I love the DZ... 302... From chevy... And It... Had more power and torque... then the real boss 302... Is DZ Chevy 302... Was a 10000 rpm motor....
A small block in a F1 car????? Only a complete dumbass would put a small block chev against other cars with 4 bangers and V6 engines that put out 3 times the horse power this motor ever would do.
I think 302Traco's in pulled 425Hp 7000 Rpm.
Stock crank & rods Mondello Iron heads,Thompson 12.5 pistons,MT rockers,238Engle ,MagurkTri drive Drysump,Hillborn inj.36° timing all engines met No. Before shipped.some did it easy some needed more tuning.I forgot theses were Methanol burners.
I had the opportunity to drive a 69 dz302. It was a mild motor until it wound up past 4500. Hard to sneak around at that rpm
It didn't sound like it was running until 5 grand....... I fucking love it
i`ve owned 68-69 and 70 model z/28s -owned the 69 over 21 yrs and you would not believe how many of the younger generation kids ask why i had a ford engine in a camaro
? So, tell us smart chevy people. Why was the 283 a great engine for a street car and the 302 not ? They are similar engines.
So where as the head cam intake carb combination was perfect for the 283, it was not for the 302. Imagine a 302 and a powerglide ?
Put the heads from a 283 on a 302, then it should run fine ?
I realize the 302 was a special order race engine and all the associated parts.
The 283 had less piston friction and a lighter piston and was happy with a powerglide.
I think the 283 was chevys happy accident or was it well planned out ?
If I were to make a choice I'd have to go with a 283.
I realize the 302 was not a street engine and was built for racing, but the 283 was in the day a better street engine.
Rather have a 64 283 Chevelle 4 speed than a 67 302 Camaro.
Down the street from me a 67 Camaro with that 302 in it has been sitting in a neighbor's garage for 40 years. It's really dusty and I opened the hood and tried to turn it over. It's stuck. No hole out the side of the block.
I recognize the factory highrise intake and holley carb that came on those DZ engines.
I'm not a chevy guy but I may get around to buying the car before the lady crooks.
All about the camshaft that was offered in the 302 . You needed lower rear gear and a manual transmission for better off the line drivability.
@@williamsidas9349 if it was that easy and I was a chevy buff, I would have taken the cam out and replaced it with one from a 283 so it would have better street manners.
A 302 or a l88 for that matter is drivable in a light vehicle with the correct gears and a manual transmission. These cars were performance oriented and each manufacturer had a similar product in order to qualify for certain racing criteria. Yes you could replace the cam and build more torque ,but at that time at the expense of horse power . With today's grinds there could be a better compromise ,but you have to take into account cylinder head flow and compression ratio before any changes should be made .
@@williamsidas9349 I'm going by what you said." It's all about the camshaft. " Now you change your story.
@@williamsidas9349 also we are talking past tense.
Great engine for a light car.
Rev and stay together.
So, it's a Dart block and not a GM SBC factory block? BTW, motors are electric and NOT internal combustion engines.
That's one Mean Mouse ..... she actually pulled 8280 !! Holy Piston Speed Batman !! 😳
Wow
go south Dakota go
302
CW oklahoma
With limited horsepower and limited torque, you have unlimited reliability, well not really, but a hell of a lot better
Always wondered if anyone took a 302 chevy with a flat plane crankshaft
I am 65 and had a 69 Z-28 and knew a few other people who had them, a dissapointment on the street to say the least. I built a 67 RS Camaro Yenko clone with a 427/425, 456 gears, a 4 speed and with a junk Holley 780 and some traction EASY 12.7 at 110 mph, a guy who raced told me with a 800/850 and the single plane like the Tarantula instead of the dual plane 12.4 or better no problems at all, that stock solid cam idled decent nad a smooth power band and revved high for a camshaft from that day
Nice ! How did it work out for the customer?
how the fuck could you dislike this?
I had one, turned it 7500 to 8200 back in the mid eighties . Had it in a 72 Vega
Put it into a Prius!
Start the Bitch Up!!!!
piston speed on a street stock car should not exceed 4,000 fpm and at 9,000 rpm a 302 would only need a mild build,a 302 at 9,000 rpm has a piston speed of 4,500 FPM
God Bless America 🙏 what was the Compression Ratio?
Crower rods are to heavy try a set of Arrows. Lighter stronger and just all around better con rod.
That's music too my ears but that song is expensive !
Peak power at 7500rpm? Damn that's a hot lil engine
Be a great engine for a Vega.
I love that setup!
Heyyyyyy... I'm from SD as well!
Me too!!
@@jackd464 siik
Chevy made some awesome Texas and Oklahoma straight highway 200 mph cameros in the 70s and 80s with high winding 302s and 305s.
No they didmt
Chevy 305 is a total dog only good for gas mileage and low emissions period !
@@johnpena9165 the chevy 305s are great motors.
All that and 450 hp. 300ish tq. Wow I thought it would be more. Way more.
Watch the entire video, customer wanted limited horsepower and torque due to his gear box not being able to support more power.
@@cncmotorsports I did just not impressed sorry. I'm a Chevy guy also . Was hoping for more power than that for all that you got in it. I mean you can get a very mild 350 to do that pump gas without all the aftermarkets and a stock block. Don't take it the wrong way I'm not criticizing you I just figured with aftermarket block aftermarket heads aftermarket intake and so on and so forth I would be looking at the number somewhere around 7 to 800 naturally aspirated
@@greenboyatgafarms2250 rpm also equals top speed ,you may make the same hp but at a lower rpm not able to attain the top speed especially in a light vehicle.
I like your thermal couples
IF I remember correctly the 302 have a VERY tight timing window. If you were outside that window even a degree , the power would drop like a rock. That usually explains why a lot of guys said that the 302 would not make power. A lot of guys would pick up a car at the races with a 302 that the owner said made no power. Come back with the car a week later and it was screaming, only change was timing. Easy money.
Timing really is everything
Timing and correct jets in the carb. They were high revving engines so you had to have the fuel and timing JUST RIGHT
I stuck a 302 out of a built z28 that rolled into a 80's monza spyder. 0 to 100 in 7.6 seconds after a nine inch and alot of rubber under that little car.
My dad has a story about the 1969 Z/28 he owned back in the day. The guy he bought it from couldn’t get it out of the 16’s. It was set up too! 4.88 gears and all. After my dad tuned it, it ran consistent 12.80’s at 108 mph on slicks.
I seem to remember that mine was touchy. It would turn in the best times with about 38 total, all in by 4000 rpm.
I can get a dz302 for $4500 guys not sure about the heads,? Would you pay that.? Tia.
heck yea
But it would never survive in formula style racing setting
This has to be the 305 I created but with deffense heads with the rods created with the devideing line created of the offense destroked engine and parts witch were recreated to fit the jouranl sizes of its wideness and its widths with the subtration of the devideing line of the deffense rods of the offense engine off of the walls subtraction that creates the flexuation of more destroked compression off of the valves that creates a cemestry of differnet combustion of compresion flexuating in differnt momentums of low mid and high and still produces enough compression to still lift and allow the valves to open open up back and forth as tge rods and the crank is turning moving and traveling threw the walls of offense and deffense travelence in differnt time frames of fast travel that builds the heart beat of the engine and its impulses of how a engine breeds and feels of its up lifts and its heart beats....then how it all creates offense and deffense threw out all of the grafidey skellitol thoughts and visions tjen with the ex 327 69 big journal cam.....
Thats a easy 550 - 600 hp motor
Ridiculous
no power no torque could have gone a rotary heheheha
A motor starts the engine !
electric
Small engines can make the power of larger engines but need more revs to do it.
It is the same as small high speed bullets can hit as hard as heavier lower speed bullets. In some ways the heavier bullet has the advantage because it retaines energy and fires on a flatter trajectory.
In some ways the bigger engine has it as it has a broader spread of torque.
Each has its own advantages and disadvantages.
Can you imagine the piston moving 60 ft./s like that, there’s definitely more 🐎 in there for sure spinning an engine that high
Had a built 305 I took to 7,000 on a regular basis, quit making power around 6,500,damn thing had 354,000 miles on it when I junked it,really suprised me it went that long....maybe it was the 15w50 mobil 1?
You talk to damn much,make a talk video and then the ACTION video next time.
Why would anyone order a 302 cid Chevy from the other side of the Atlantic Ocean and have it tuned down?
Makes no sense? Beef up the drive train . The 302 doesn't make huge torque but screams on demand!
This build makes no sense.
Because the owner wanted a Chevy V8, high rpm and low torque for a vintage formula one car. You cannot apply high American V8 torque to a formula chassis and drive train or you'll break everything in its path.
0:09 F1 car engine? what he is going to use it for? street? holymothercow!
i have a question: what the bore and stroke this motor?????? without the other mobile pieces.......
it's 4" x 3".
Short stroke motors can rev up because the shorter stroke has a lower mean piston speed.
A theoretical maximum Mean Piston Speed (MPS) is 4100ft/min (fpm). It is just theoretical and can be exceeded but now esoteric components start becoming necessary.
4inch bore.3inch stroke
Build the head right and use a 6.25 rod and the motor will produce low torque, ridiculous RPM's and never break!!!
Have you read the article the 350 Engine Chrevrolet Should Have Built?
If not:
www.airflowresearch.com/412-hp-350-ci-afr-190cc/
Any videos of the car with this motor in it?
These engines are incredible. If I'm correct and memory serves me well they came stock with a 13-14:1 compression ratio. The only thing bad about these motors is the low end trq which I understand they were built for high RPM track racing but jeez. Imagine this motor producing great trq around 38-4200 rpm....would be an animal for sure. Already is though lol
11:1
Cpurk198527@gmail Metalmonster i dont give a shot what he said ! 9000 rpm will do massive friction wear to that engine, lets see him break it down now and see the rings and bearings
Paul Wilson high RPM means lower compression you dufus!
you need to educate yourself my friend,9000 rpm isn't that high.the dry sump oiling on this engine will let it live at 9000 rpm for many,many races without any damage.the 1968-69,70 scca(sports car club of america)
had a racing series with pony cars from ford,chevy,amc and chrysler and they could not exceed 302 cubic inches on any of them.
in the late sixties and early 70's you could see aar cudas racing against z28 camaro's,
pontiac trans ams and amx's along side with boss 302 mustangs and t/a challengers
and all these cars revved way over 7000 rpm.when you race and want to win you have to
build a car with forged internals (pistons,crank,connecting rods etc)a dry sump oiling
system that prioritizes the oiling and keeps critical components living in this wickedly
high revving small block engines.
STOCK DZ 302 HAS 11 TO 1 PISTONS ,
Nice professional plug wire routing with extra long wires & 0 wire spacers & stands?
How much money would a motor like that run for? Im sure with a titanium valvetrain it isnt cheap
nascar sound right there. awesome engine
@cncmotorsports.$20k, huh... Soooo... What kind of road course engine would you build with a similar budget and very few restrictions? (say about $15-20k). Something that can be beat like a mule and still come back for more.
nice job whats the cost on that
what could this motor do if it wasn't tuned for a required HP??
What sorta power is this motor capable of then?
Great work!
what exactly would you do to a 302 to get 2hp/ci?
Easily. Ever heard of Ritchie Zul? Martin and Zul, Black and Zul. He was best friends with Grumpy. I lived 100 yds from his cousin Steve. His cousin Steve was best friends with the son of the owner of Dzus Fasteners. To raise money for racing, Ritchie sold aircraft fasteners to the racers. Yup, he started the whole thing. I used to sit on the corner and watch him run down Broadway in lindenhurst. In a year and a half he turned a stock 66 Nova 327 into a 9 second car. I later worked next to him. He used to eat his cousin's 396 Chevelle for breakfast. He buit the factory racing Mercury Boat engines for probably 30 years. The 100 HP big blocks and such. He was at the time considered the fastest shifter in the world and they advertized that for National Speedway and such.
was that 484 hp or KW ?
Why run the engine at 9 grand when peak power is closer to 8?? Isn't that kind of pushing it where there is no advantage unless just more speed is wanted
Flexing to 8k is one thing...how long will it live?
Titanium valve train, Shaft rockers, proper camshaft ramp speed, they last
Only a 3" stroke, too...shorter stroke than the S2000's F20C and the Ferrari 458's engine which had redlines of 9200rpm as well.
cncmotorsports When you mentioned that there was a lot of power left in the combo... About what are we talking about? I'm working towards a small-displacement engine for SCCA competition (under 5100cc, or 311cid). I'm curious what kind of power/torque you'd expect to make without the drivetrain limitations.
@@TLWiltman look up some of the insanity guys do with 283s then make some calculations from there on in and you should come up with a vague number of what a na 302 can do.
Yes, F3000 is what it was. I'm sorry for the confusion.
A chevy smallblock is much more compact than many engines on the market, pretty much all, really. It's smaller than an nissan VQ35 V6, and weighs less as well, that is if it's an aluminum smallblock.
You guys hiring?
bet compression is very small for cam u used to get up stairs like that......... prob where all hp was lost eh..?????
No horse power was lost, the engine was built to the customers needs. When the customer is spending that kind of money, ($20,000) he decides how much power he wants. As stated, repeatedly in the video, the rest of the drive train in the car COULD NOT TAKE MORE POWER AND TORQUE. Pay attention to what is being said in these videos.
how much does a engine like this cost
Well this one is something special. Dry sump, all titanium valvetrain, dartblock.... You are probably looking into the range of $10-15k
My build is a nice budget build... LS2 block ($800), 4.005 bore x 3.268 stroke (crank and rods out of 4.8L $200, custom pistons with strong wrist pins $800), ARP rod bolts ($100,) ls2 heads ported ($600, porting was free diy,) cam ($350,) titanium Valves ($800), spring kit($250,) solid lifters ($500,) pushrods ($150,) head bolts ($300,) ported intake Mani and tb (free diy.) I think that's all of it. Can rev to 8k no issues. If I lighten the valvetrain more I'm confident it can go much higher. Much more fun than any stroker I've built...
mspanomc how much power and torque do you think it would output? I like your idea
+mspanomc What did you 329 end up dynoing? I'm sure its fun, but the OEM block isn't great for durability.
aren't 230 heads too big for a 302?
No high rpm power requires large ports
that's one bad lil dude!!
VP110 Fuel
im building a 302sbc for my camaro to run ihra super stock, gonna be 825HP at 8500
ok,is it done?youve had 5 years
@@trillrifaxegrindor4411 hell no still trying to hit that 850 mark 😂
@@trillrifaxegrindor4411 6 years later "still in the planning phase"
I was thinking way over 500 hp?How did you hold it back so far?
302s are not 500 horse engines, lol. the only chevy small block that i know of capable of 500 horse naturally aspirated is a 383 stroker
Sorry Zach you are wrong. First, a 383 is not a magic engine. My other 1/2 has a 434 small block makes in excess of 500 hp. The 302 built by Smokey Yunick in the 70s using all GM parts except intake and headers made 465 hp. That's 40 years ago before we could buy excellent after market heads
AngryDuckSoup 465 is not 500. and i said the only engine that i know of that can do it is a 383, if we are talking small blocks. i own two that are both 500 horse
A 302 with after market heads(like AFR 210s) it will make way more than 500 hp. I just told you we have a 434 that makes way more than 500 hp. A 383 is not magic. Post your engines specs I bet you don't make 500 hp?
AngryDuckSoup its not surprising to me that you were able to make more than 500hp out of 434 cubes. i dont care if you dont believe me about my 383s, its a pretty easy platform to get 500hp out of.
how did you manage that with 1 cam?
????
they manage that with one cam for longer then people will believe lol ohc is a shit platform for power
You sir, are a proper idiot. Have you ever heard of a top fuel dragster? 1 camshaft. 10,000 horsepower.
no i dont really know that much about v8s
number of cams doesnt really matter. valve quantity and size does
A Stock Chevy 302 with the factory insides will do 9,800 rpm and no after market stuff needed inside the engine. They live for ever. That must have been a destroked 350 to make a 302. It would have been cheaper to find a 327 small journal and a 283 engine swap the 283 crank into the 327. Buy 302 pistons for it. A 2 bolt main 327 will do 9,000 rpm for years without a problem. Destroked to 302.
9,800rpm stock? Bullshit.
I can totally see a "stock" block low cube handling 9,000+ RPM; I've heard of this before. Unfortunately, you have to run modifications to the fuel system. From the stories I've heard, it basically took a carb tune and you're turning crazy RPM. I've heard 8,000+ RPM isn't uncommon with some knowledge.
I've have physically seen (not heard or pictured in my mind's eye) 8,000rpm from a nearly stock 302, but 9,800 from a stock 302 (no aftermarket stuff) is bullshit. That guy either doesn't know what he's talking about, or he's a liar. Be careful what you say around people who really know stuff or they're going to think you're like Chris Dotson.
9,800? sorry but i gotta see that one!
Dotson knows nothing about engines that RPM. He owns a Harley. Kaboom!!!!
According to most Europeans an American small block or Bigblock especially carb powered cant run 9K rpm...
Small blocks have been revving past 9000 RPM for years
Yes decades actually but tell that to most Europeans and its a impossibility to them
.
Boredout454 ok
+Boredout454 283 will scream past 12k
thats big $........dang
The engine was built for this car 4 years ago, Great people to work with, and their Magic bullet treatment really works.
www.addthemagicbullet.com/file/2014/11/10686852_1465284363733735_1397063839650786407_n.jpg
2:25 close your eyes, tell me that doesn't sound like a honda civic.
+YellowMach1 Nothing about it sounds like a civic. Why you concentrating on civics so hard.
+ztwntyn8 it sounds like a screaming v8 and we didnt hear the exhaust
i didnt know chevy made a 302
My first car was a 69' Z-28 DZ 302 Miss that Fucker!!!
Everyone says that! The 69 z28 had the 302 in it. It was called the DZ motor.
as he said they were only in the 1969 Z28 and they had a 4in bore by 3in stroke
327 bore size with a 283 stroke crank
they made them from 1967 to 1969.the 1967 302 I think had the small crankshaft journals and the 1969 had the large journal,the 1968 302 could be found with either large or small journal.the 1969 DZ block is the most famous of the 302 Chevy.
NICE!!!!!
Not at 9000 RPM