As the proud owner of an 88 Bronco that I used at work doing erosion condition assessments of off highway trails until I retired. I can say with out a doubt the TTB was, and is, excellent. My Bronco went 246K miles on oem TTB, engine, and tranny. No I did not beat it up and I did not run race pace anywhere. But I was out there, day in and day out. Two things come to mind. 1.) comfort going down the road or trail was exceptional (I had the factory twin shock system w mild shocks). 2.) was the turning radius. I could often turn inside all but custom built off-road rigs. WAY tighter turning radius that a Blazer, say. Like a 1/3 tighter. With posi out back and decent load of tools in back it was pretty much go anywhere, from the Oregon dunes to the deserts of the South West. The big deal is DO NOT change the wheel offset, and be reasonable about tires. I kept the factory 15" rims and just went with tires. 10.5 x 31" for rugged terrain 9.5 x 30 for every day road stuff.
Adding to the econoline comment. The econoline vans in 2wd used the twin I-beams until they discontinued them in around 2015….so 50 years of twin I-beams. Plus still a popular design for off road pre runners. Awesome.
I still have my 78 E-150 LWB with a 351W, 4 speed manual trans, 9 inch rear end with 411 gears & a locking differential. I have updated a few things like switching to a single piece drive shaft, Volvo 740 drivers seat and Power Master Alternator. But this van is my favorite power tool... My only problem with it is that my two Tesla neighbor slashed my tires & other vandalism because I "was killing the environment" by owning a gasoline powered van that I only use as a work van...
@@davidhollenshead4892 My father ordered one of those new, the overdrive was only a half year option for the 351W, (in 1979 it was only available behind the 300-6/302-V8) I still have parts of that van (engine/trans/pedals/shifter/rear-end) that I am saving for another project. Those are pretty rare, Ford would void your warranty if you had a trailer hitch on one! - The Top-loader overdrive was not made for towing...we used a "clamp-on" hitch to tow the boat until the warranty expired!
Ive have had and maintained 3 E series vans , 78, 96, and 06. I bought a 2015 transit 250 when they came out but it wasn't a patch to the E series vans, not enough steel for serious use, i sold it and still have the 06 E 350. Ford still makes the E350 , 450 as a cab and chassis. I once let les schwab try to do an alignment after buying tires, after 4 hours they gave up, never again. I use the moog caster camber adjuster which is a must for getting adjustments beyond the factory spec which is almost a definite requirement as the vehicle gets older or if you put a lift on it , which i have done on the 96, and 06. Getting as much caster as possible is also a plus for handling. Some rv forums talk about getting caster angles of 6 to 7 degrees when the factory spec is 2 to 3 degrees. If you put lift pucks under the springs you have to drop the rear of the control arm the same amount. Toe can accurately be adjusted with 2 framing squares clamped to a straight edge , checking front and rear of the tire at mid height of the tire. Camber can be adjusted with a bubble or by eye , check your spring sag difference as it gets noticeable as they age . I have no uneven wear on my E series, practice makes perfect. Dont underestimate how much worn ball joints can affect handling on these vehicles. WELDTEC DESIGNS makes some really good kits for lift , handling and better ride quality. He has a yt channel.
Thanks skibby :) keep beating that drum for us. Modern trucks and vans are becoming headaches and these older machines can last incredibly with good maintenance. The shame I see is where maintenance knowledge and technique is lost to time… thanks for keeping the dust off it.
I've owned 2 of these Ford trucks - a '77 and a '91. What I remember most is the constant steering corrections when driving on long freeway trips.. it would constantly "wander" left and right. A positive note to this is I'd never get sleepy on long drives.. so there's THAT !
With fresh, stiff bushings, proper toe, and stock ride height, they're just fine... but bushings wear out, and lifting them requires some knowledge and investment, or you'll hate life. When left alone, or better yet, some poly bushings, they track just fine. My little ranger tracks just fine until the bumps get on the bigger side, but even then, it doesn't feel concerning, and you'll barely notice it... but it's not a *great* system, especially if you're making any changes to ride height.
Was your tire wear even? Cause wandering left and right, I'd assume toe out and some accelerated wear on the insides of the tire... or just old, squishy bushings.
1970 F250, wife's daddy bought it new. I rebuilt the front end at 100,000 miles. Added swaybars front and rear and a panhard rod in the back. Hauled a 3,000-pound slide-in camper for the last 12 years, and it works great. Never had a tire wear problem in the front.
My dad had a 1969 F-100 with twin I-beam. He had some sort of alignment problem. He took it to a shop and he got worried when the mechanic started dragging out chains, big clamps, a very big hammer and the torch. After some time heating some part of the suspension, there was one big ‘WHANG’ and the mechanic removed everything. Dad said the truck drove perfect and he got something like 65,000 miles out of those front tires. That was back in the early 70’s when tires only went 25,000 to about 40,000 and were then worn out. Radial tires were not yet a thing for pickups.
I've had my 1983 E-100 van for 42 years. I maintain it myself,😂 grease it every year, the kingpins are still original. I had the tierods replaced 3 years ago. It has approximately 180,000 on it, and has not given me any problems. I love it. I don't get any excessive tire wear, they last 10 to 12 years with rotation every year, (5,000-7,000 miles).
The main problem with TTB on 250\350 leaf sprung 4x4 trucks is not camber changes but that because of the pivot the leafs get pushed out under compression and are constantly twisted as the suspension articulates. 350's with their positive arch springs and front shackles necessarily jam the axle forward into bumps making RSK's very popular. This is a good overview of coil sprung TIB/TTB front ends but there's good reasons Ford changed to a solid D60 under the 350 4x4 in 1985 Thanks! 👍
My F250 never gave me troubles with tire wear, but I learned to align it myself. When it came time to install 4wd, I did end up going with a solid axle. From what I've seen, most TTB and Twin I-Beam problems come from poor maintenance or poorly installed lift kits. Keep them stock, and they work well.
This is accurate. Keep it stock, other than some poly bushings, it'll do just fine. It won't be perfect, but any issues that are there, you'll hardly notice. If you wanna change things, be prepared to learn a whole lot about suspension kinematics and do some significant fab work, or you're gonna make it act funny.
Born '97, so i missed the 80s/90s racing on TV, but I've always loved any kind of offroad racetruck. A few of my uncles buddies had ranger prerunners so i knew "whoop scissors" existed, but i was unbelievably excited as a 10 year old when Gpa brought home a Bullnose and i thought he bought a racetruck cause it had Beams. Honestly TIB/TTB and the radial arm solid suspension from prewar cars are the coolest suspension systems to watch, imo well worth the quirks with how fuckin cool it looks
Been readin through the comments.. no mention of a drift correction on alignments that are "within spec". I found, in my area, with highway and rural roads that Twin-I/TTB don't hold a straight line well. I'd add a half degree caster lead over the right, tends help immensely for the crown of the roads. But that was 30ish yrs ago.
I recently rebuilt the Dana35 TTB on my Ford Ranger and made custom extended radius arms with Johnnie Joints replacing the radius arm bushings. When trying to dial in the alignment, I noticed the same thing with caster and its affect on drift. I think the stock setup runs more caster overall because the relatively short radius arms would go near zero or negative caster in some droop scenarios with a smaller caster value typical of an A-arm IFS. The extra caster helps avoid that and limit potential "death wobble". However that extra caster also forces more "return-to-center" which is only neutral on completely flat roads. I'm certainly no expert, but through trial and error I ended up with probably an extra 1/4 degree on the right. With my setup, the truck tracks perfectly straight on flat roads and ones with small crowns. But with a larger crown or a cross wind I have to apply some steering pressure. I've thought about reducing the caster overall, but I'm otherwise happy with steering response, turning performance, and tire wear. So long term I think a better solution for me will be a ported steering box with hydro-assist.
@@pyroblasten Not really. There's the background images with the springs, a picture at 5:53, the image at 7:47, and the garage background at 10:52. Not exactly "loaded" in my opinion, especially compared to his older content, hence my comment about the improvement.
One thing I'll say about the twin I beam, it holds alignment like no other. I got the alignment right on my Ranger's front end, I didn't have to touch it again for the next 10 years. All I did was rotate the tires every 5k miles, and I consistently got darn near perfect wear across multiple sets of tires.
@robertsolomielke5134 nah, they're just built strong. Most you'll have to do to keep the alignment where it is is make sure your bushings are in order. Assuming you got the right alignment in the first place, anyway. I accidentally wanged my tire into a barrier in a parking lot the other day. Horrendous bang noise. Checked that the wheel and tire didn't appear damaged at a glance. Went on about my day. Drive perfectly since. I'm not at all concerned that I messed up the alignment. If anything was gonna get bent, it would have been the cheap steel wheel. Bushings are the main thing that will usually cause alignment issues on a TIB.
Great video and you know your stuff. I'd love to have more videos about what's underneath the Bullnose. I'm trying to learn more about mine. Thanks for the video. 1985 4X4 EFI
Today's stuff is way better, wishbones, independent coils , don't think this design will be repeated anytime soon. Nice work in explaining the I beam action.
No it isn't. My 78 E-150 has gone over half a million miles without needing major repairs to the front I beam suspension.The only big problem I know of is when the King Pins don't get greased for years...
Yep, I too owned two 4X4 F-250 with front solid axles and dam they went through tires like a hot knife in butter and yet my 91 Explorer 'Twin Traction beams' went on 300,000 miles and for 15 years and tires were never a problem ! Go figure ? Since then, all my Fords RWD and AWD have been independent front ends. Fun video, thanks.
I drove TTB Ford vehicles about 20 years, using them in some extremely arduous off-road applications. Yes, the dynamic camber and alignment difficulty was a challenge. The biggest drawback of the TTB was that Ford chronically equipped TTB trucks with inadequate soft front springs and shocks--presumably to make the vehicle ride better. Replacing the front springs and shocks with heavier duty versions would improve their handling, performance, and reduce dynamic camber alignment issues, with just a modest decrease in riding comfort. Depending on one's viewpoint, the TTB was the best or worst compromise between a solid front axle and a fully independent front suspension. On the positive side, the TTB captured many of the advantages of an IFS while retaining most of the toughness of a solid front axle. On the negative side, the TTB captured much of the unsprung weight disadvantage of a solid front axle while only capturing some of the advantages of an IFS. In essence, both opinions are true.
Best thing for alignment for Ford twin i beam is don’t mess with it. Set the tow-in and make sure you rotate your tires every 5,000 miles. The 65-79 twin I beam, the only way to adjust the camber and caster, is to bend the I beam. It will never behave like double a arm suspension, so learn to live with the quirks of twin I beam, or choose a different brand of truck
To be honest I'm not sure where the shirt came from. I went into my closet after I became a dad and there were a whole bunch of them in there. Sure are comfy though. 😁
Hey I know the 4x4 beams are unequal length. Does anyone have the stock driver and passenger beam lengths for the Dana 44 and Dana 50 set ups? Been a nightmare to find online.
I have one of each, on an F350 and a bronco, I accidentally drove my stock bronco "accidentally" off a 6 foot cliff at about 30 mph, it bounced and other then crushing the bump stops came out unscathed. I've been a fan ever since.... I do change a lot of RF tires though on my 350
My 2005 Super Duty W/T 2wd with obd1 emissions and 2 valve 5.4 uses the twin I beam and is my daily driver work truck. Rides nice for an F250 and powerful combo; threated to quit when offered a new Nissan van to replace it.
Ford is still using Twin I Beam in the 2wd Super Duty trucks, and my modern local repair shop has no issues maintaining it. Very popular in south america.
I’m not trying to correct you Mr. Bullnose, but I always thought the 1966 F-100 model was first year of the twin I beam. When I was younger I had a 1966, and my brother-in-law had a 1965…his was single I beam, and mine was obviously a twin I beam 🤔
I have an '81 E370 1 ton box van with Twin I-Beam that I want to convert to TTB. Is there a guide somewhere for doing this swap? I own a fab shop and can build anything, but would much prefer to do it with stock, bolt-in parts if possible. I only intend to use 4wd in the snow, not gonna be wheeler. I already have a collection of off road toys.
@@wilecatrexy Yup. I love the fact the D44 hubs, knuckles and stub shafts swap right onto the Dana 35 TTB inner parts. I'm shopping around for just such a swap on my '95 Ranger right now.
The 2.9: if it hasn't blown a head gasket or cracked a head yet it probably won't... as long as you never let it run hot. The a4ld: like every other ford overdrive transmission from that time frame, swap it for a manual. I highly recommend buying a complete parts truck for the swap. Take pictures, label fasteners. It's a pretty easy job if you have a parts truck with everything needed.
@@aaadamt964 as tempting as the manual swap is the automatic has treated be very well so far, then again I dont stress it out very much, I do take some trails with it but I never push that transmission very hard, I am curious about its internals however, the mechanics of the 2.9L and the A4LD, it just fascinates me on how they work internally. but yeah the 2.9L has been one of the best engines I have come across, but I do watch my temp given its head cracking issue.
@@rhekman I know the 83-88 Bronco II's run Dana 28, its not hard to swap in a Dana 35 as the 89-90 Bronco II came with Dana 35's from factory, handy considering, As far as I'm aware, the Dana 28 has no aftermarket support or support in general.
I have four trucks with this suspension and only one had ever been aligned, the toe was misadjusted by an alignment shop. Uneven tire wear hasn't been a problem and even rotation hasn't been necessary except for the misaligned truck. My advice is if yours is straight and working well, an alignment shop is very likely going to screw it up for you.
Yup, my TTB Ranger started chewing up front tires, but only after 20+ years, a quarter million miles, and a completely roached right front radius arm bushing completely threw off the caster. I had to replace the sagged coil springs to get ride height back into spec, but once I got the caster to within quarter degree left and right, everything's right as rain.
The camber is adjustable, there is a offset bushing where the top balljoint connects to, you turn it to the desired camber then tighten the balljoint down Also, make the adjustments with the vehicle on the ground as if you were about to drive it
I have a 86 f150 bought new it doesn't go straight down the road without having to steer it. With a load in the bed it's real hard to keep it on the road. I also have a 80 model c 10 Chevy with the independent suspension and have neither of those problems
Have you set your steering box at bottom dead center and the set your pitman arm on it with the wheels perfectly straight? It makes a huge difference when it's s lined up and I drove for years with a constant pull to the right until the steering box started leaking. I decided to overhaul it myself and I centered the pitman arm correctly this time unlike when I installed the thing 11 years earlier, I couldn't believe the difference. I was happy and angry at the same time. Perhaps this tidbit of trial and error can help you with your situation. Once the steering box is centered, it shouldn't have this issue anymore unless your steering ball joints are shot. The bushings where the beams articulate might be bad, but they would have to be pretty trashed for it to be really noticable. Hope this helps.
The twin i beam gose clear into the 2010s i think when they went to something else in the aluminum duty but I might be wrong. INFOtisum I know admonish me for not knowing all but I had a 2010 and a 2007 F250 with the twin I beam
2012 F250 xlt, 6.2 rwd, 50k+ mile tire changes, 5k rotate, 160k on chassis, half those miles pull 12k 5th wheel since new, 8.5mpg towing, 14 'round town. Oh, it wears the outside of left front, otherwise i would probably get 70k per tire swap.
Being an automotive enthusiast I find myself often studying unconventional practices. This system being one of them. Over here in Britain and European cars in general it's usually just a bread and butter McPherson strut set up. But it seems in the US there is all sorts of novel set ups. I was surprised to learn the 1994 Mustang has the spring and strut separate with the steering knuckle on the damper. The corvette leaf spring is a odd one too. Though I later discovered some of our cars did it too. Torsion bars on dodge b bodies. Jag e types used the same set up funnily enough. I don't think anyone has replicated the Citroen 2 CV set up. That's just weird.
Ford is always first at most everything. In about the middle of 1964 Ford came out with the Mustang in 1967 GM came out with the Camaro, The list goes on and on. Thanks for good video.
The vans always wore stuff out worse/faster. Why? The constant loading and unloading of the vans changes the ride height and camber angles (subsequently toe), can't keep tires on em.
The Twin I-Beam might have come out in 65 and still used on 2WD Superduty trucks. - But the change from Kingpins to Ball Joints was good for adjustments, bad for durability. I have a Kingpin Econoline that is on its 2nd set of kingpins (500K) and now at 770K miles, since 1978. - I have a Ball joint pickup that is used like a car, and at 300K its on its 3rd set of ball joints and I am a grease gun jockey....They just don't hold up.
The "Siscor-Acton SLAP-PENSION" Was ALWAYS "OUT of Alignment".../a quarter inch pebbel was enough to "Through ya in a Ditch". Ford & Firestone always had an " Agreement"; Ford- we will build a cheep-junky vehicle that WILL torture& wearout tires/ Firestone- we will make a LOT of tires fer ALL the junky fords.
This is the most uneducated comment here. - Especially considering EVERY Ford Econoline Ambulance since 1975 has this suspension, and when lives are on the line, only the best will do!
I've seen them bend slightly throwing the camber off. Other then messing with spring height and such the only way to adjust them without undersizing the king pins is to bend the axle. It's nice to have a jig for this, but I've never seen one What I've done is, take a bottle jack and place it under the I beam. Take an old rim and cut it apart and weld a bunch of supports, then fit another bottle jack on the king pin and use a torch to heat the I beam then very gently start to bend it. Don't go to hot or you'll compromise the I beam If you go to far it's a pain to reverse it
@@adamm1998 Yes. Had an alignment job at a shop with a T-pit built for bending/twisting semi axles. Replaced/repaired kingpins and bosses.. camber/caster correction, depending on deflection, is challenging yet oddly satisfying.. if yer into not being beaten by a chunk of steel that refuses to do it's job. 'Crummys' are the worst.. badly abused.. replaced my fair share of radius rod hangers, right up there with TREs and axle pivots. I'll take an old Ford over anything because they can take anything you give it.
I worked on the Brown Econoline vans for 17 years. Most went out on the gravel, rock and dirt roads. We never took them to alignment shops. When ever you replaced suspension bushings or did kingpins, we set the toe 1/16-1:8” and sent them down the road. We never had tire wear issues that were alignment related. Make sure to use anti seize on all the bushings and kingpins
Even on solid axles with radius arms you can get odd wear. Going from empty to loaded, the axle moving in an arc can change alignment relative to the ground.
Possibly the worst suspension system ever devised for a pickup truck. Had an 85 F150 and servicing the ball joints was a nightmare. Had to remove those gigantic arms, and take them to a spring shop who had such difficulty pressing them out that he told me to never come back again. GM had a much simpler control arm system. Twin i-beams were a stupid idea. If you want independent suspension, just go to control arms. If you want the strength of a solid axle and leaf springs like a medium duty truck, make it a solid axle
Step one in aligning these designs is to replace the pivot bushings, or your alignment efforts will be in vain. Not replacing loose bushings is the cause of much angst. Tire wear is as good as any other design if the tires are rotated every 5000 miles.
Alignment ? Toe and go ! unless you have access to a heavy truck alignment shop. Just keep bushings , ball joints and linkage in good shape it will out last you.
OK first of all, I haven't seen an "F-series" Class-C since the 70's....They are all ECONOLINE Based...and I have owned several over the last 45 years, I have no problems.
They toe out on bump and rebound. Which eats tires. A couple of us who know suspension geometry spend some time many years ago trying to figure out a way to get the steering linkage to track the suspension travel. It's simply not possible. Ford has used several different tie rod lay outs over the decades. None of them work. There's another real drawback. The high roll center of the semi leading arm design means that if you cut the steering wheel hard to one side and hit the brakes hard at the same time the suspension wants to jack up on the outside and roll under, flipping the truck. I have seen people do this. The TTB with shorter swing arms makes this effect about twice as bad. Lethal. Yes, they ride well. Yes, they are hard to break. And an absolute loser otherwise. Hordes of owners who love them because they just don't understand the drawbacks. You wont find many alignment techs who will own one.
Interesting. My dad owned an alignment shop for 4 decades. All he owned since he left Ford, was Twin I Beam Fords. - I still own some he had...I don't see an issue with them. - I will not own a TTB truck, mostly because real 4x4 trucks have straight axles.
DONT rotate your tires. Rotating the tires just means you will need to buy a complete set sooner. It’s going to wear the edges on the front tires, period. Accept that, or buy a Chevy. If found the ratio to be 2:1. 2 pairs of front tires to 1 pair of rear tires. If yo rotate the tires, you just end up with 4 tires worn on the edges, needing premature replacement instead of just 2 front tires replaced at the half-life of the rear. Probably not the best designed trucks ever, but they can take way more abuse than the modern excuse for a truck. When I was growing up, pickup = bulldozer.
I wish my gm had a ford front end then i could call it a truck, and thats it no hurtful comments from you ford guys about my gm😅 actually I've learned to look and appreciate the good in them all.
![351 Windsor - What You Need to Know About the Ford 351w Small Block [5.8 Liter]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/qoK_a0NrtpM/mqdefault.jpg)
As the proud owner of an 88 Bronco that I used at work doing erosion condition assessments of off highway trails until I retired. I can say with out a doubt the TTB was, and is, excellent. My Bronco went 246K miles on oem TTB, engine, and tranny. No I did not beat it up and I did not run race pace anywhere. But I was out there, day in and day out.
Two things come to mind. 1.) comfort going down the road or trail was exceptional (I had the factory twin shock system w mild shocks). 2.) was the turning radius. I could often turn inside all but custom built off-road rigs. WAY tighter turning radius that a Blazer, say. Like a 1/3 tighter.
With posi out back and decent load of tools in back it was pretty much go anywhere, from the Oregon dunes to the deserts of the South West. The big deal is DO NOT change the wheel offset, and be reasonable about tires. I kept the factory 15" rims and just went with tires. 10.5 x 31" for rugged terrain 9.5 x 30 for every day road stuff.
Adding to the econoline comment. The econoline vans in 2wd used the twin I-beams until they discontinued them in around 2015….so 50 years of twin I-beams. Plus still a popular design for off road pre runners. Awesome.
I still have my 78 E-150 LWB with a 351W, 4 speed manual trans, 9 inch rear end with 411 gears & a locking differential. I have updated a few things like switching to a single piece drive shaft, Volvo 740 drivers seat and Power Master Alternator. But this van is my favorite power tool...
My only problem with it is that my two Tesla neighbor slashed my tires & other vandalism because I "was killing the environment" by owning a gasoline powered van that I only use as a work van...
@@davidhollenshead4892 My father ordered one of those new, the overdrive was only a half year option for the 351W, (in 1979 it was only available behind the 300-6/302-V8) I still have parts of that van (engine/trans/pedals/shifter/rear-end) that I am saving for another project. Those are pretty rare, Ford would void your warranty if you had a trailer hitch on one! - The Top-loader overdrive was not made for towing...we used a "clamp-on" hitch to tow the boat until the warranty expired!
Ive have had and maintained 3 E series vans , 78, 96, and 06. I bought a 2015 transit 250 when they came out but it wasn't a patch to the E series vans, not enough steel for serious use, i sold it and still have the 06 E 350. Ford still makes the E350 , 450 as a cab and chassis.
I once let les schwab try to do an alignment after buying tires, after 4 hours they gave up, never again. I use the moog caster camber adjuster which is a must for getting adjustments beyond the factory spec which is almost a definite requirement as the vehicle gets older or if you put a lift on it , which i have done on the 96, and 06. Getting as much caster as possible is also a plus for handling. Some rv forums talk about getting caster angles of 6 to 7 degrees when the factory spec is 2 to 3 degrees. If you put lift pucks under the springs you have to drop the rear of the control arm the same amount. Toe can accurately be adjusted with 2 framing squares clamped to a straight edge , checking front and rear of the tire at mid height of the tire. Camber can be adjusted with a bubble or by eye , check your spring sag difference as it gets noticeable as they age . I have no uneven wear on my E series, practice makes perfect. Dont underestimate how much worn ball joints can affect handling on these vehicles. WELDTEC DESIGNS makes some really good kits for lift , handling and better ride quality. He has a yt channel.
Thanks skibby :)
keep beating that drum for us. Modern trucks and vans are becoming headaches and these older machines can last incredibly with good maintenance. The shame I see is where maintenance knowledge and technique is lost to time… thanks for keeping the dust off it.
I've owned 2 of these Ford trucks - a '77 and a '91.
What I remember most is the constant steering corrections when driving on long freeway trips.. it would constantly "wander" left and right.
A positive note to this is I'd never get sleepy on long drives.. so there's THAT !
Needed toed in.
With fresh, stiff bushings, proper toe, and stock ride height, they're just fine... but bushings wear out, and lifting them requires some knowledge and investment, or you'll hate life.
When left alone, or better yet, some poly bushings, they track just fine. My little ranger tracks just fine until the bumps get on the bigger side, but even then, it doesn't feel concerning, and you'll barely notice it... but it's not a *great* system, especially if you're making any changes to ride height.
Was your tire wear even? Cause wandering left and right, I'd assume toe out and some accelerated wear on the insides of the tire... or just old, squishy bushings.
Especially the radius arm bushings. Those things squish, and your tire ends up pointing left or right, depending on which way they're squishing.
Let's not forget the front end hop over at highway speeds when hitting uneven pavement.
1970 F250, wife's daddy bought it new. I rebuilt the front end at 100,000 miles. Added swaybars front and rear and a panhard rod in the back. Hauled a 3,000-pound slide-in camper for the last 12 years, and it works great. Never had a tire wear problem in the front.
My dad had a 1969 F-100 with twin I-beam. He had some sort of alignment problem. He took it to a shop and he got worried when the mechanic started dragging out chains, big clamps, a very big hammer and the torch. After some time heating some part of the suspension, there was one big ‘WHANG’ and the mechanic removed everything. Dad said the truck drove perfect and he got something like 65,000 miles out of those front tires. That was back in the early 70’s when tires only went 25,000 to about 40,000 and were then worn out. Radial tires were not yet a thing for pickups.
I've had my 1983 E-100 van for 42 years. I maintain it myself,😂 grease it every year, the kingpins are still original. I had the tierods replaced 3 years ago. It has approximately 180,000 on it, and has not given me any problems. I love it. I don't get any excessive tire wear, they last 10 to 12 years with rotation every year, (5,000-7,000 miles).
I have a 78 'E-150 and haven't had any issues with it except for the tie rod ends and a worn out steering gear box...
The main problem with TTB on 250\350 leaf sprung 4x4 trucks is not camber changes but that because of the pivot the leafs get pushed out under compression and are constantly twisted as the suspension articulates.
350's with their positive arch springs and front shackles necessarily jam the axle forward into bumps making RSK's very popular.
This is a good overview of coil sprung TIB/TTB front ends but there's good reasons Ford changed to a solid D60 under the 350 4x4 in 1985
Thanks! 👍
You explained it PERFECTLY.
My F250 never gave me troubles with tire wear, but I learned to align it myself. When it came time to install 4wd, I did end up going with a solid axle.
From what I've seen, most TTB and Twin I-Beam problems come from poor maintenance or poorly installed lift kits. Keep them stock, and they work well.
This is accurate. Keep it stock, other than some poly bushings, it'll do just fine. It won't be perfect, but any issues that are there, you'll hardly notice.
If you wanna change things, be prepared to learn a whole lot about suspension kinematics and do some significant fab work, or you're gonna make it act funny.
Born '97, so i missed the 80s/90s racing on TV, but I've always loved any kind of offroad racetruck. A few of my uncles buddies had ranger prerunners so i knew "whoop scissors" existed, but i was unbelievably excited as a 10 year old when Gpa brought home a Bullnose and i thought he bought a racetruck cause it had Beams. Honestly TIB/TTB and the radial arm solid suspension from prewar cars are the coolest suspension systems to watch, imo well worth the quirks with how fuckin cool it looks
Been readin through the comments.. no mention of a drift correction on alignments that are "within spec". I found, in my area, with highway and rural roads that Twin-I/TTB don't hold a straight line well. I'd add a half degree caster lead over the right, tends help immensely for the crown of the roads. But that was 30ish yrs ago.
I recently rebuilt the Dana35 TTB on my Ford Ranger and made custom extended radius arms with Johnnie Joints replacing the radius arm bushings. When trying to dial in the alignment, I noticed the same thing with caster and its affect on drift.
I think the stock setup runs more caster overall because the relatively short radius arms would go near zero or negative caster in some droop scenarios with a smaller caster value typical of an A-arm IFS. The extra caster helps avoid that and limit potential "death wobble". However that extra caster also forces more "return-to-center" which is only neutral on completely flat roads.
I'm certainly no expert, but through trial and error I ended up with probably an extra 1/4 degree on the right. With my setup, the truck tracks perfectly straight on flat roads and ones with small crowns. But with a larger crown or a cross wind I have to apply some steering pressure. I've thought about reducing the caster overall, but I'm otherwise happy with steering response, turning performance, and tire wear. So long term I think a better solution for me will be a ported steering box with hydro-assist.
@@rhekman A 1/4 ain't bad at all. Around here the crown is more pronounced.. rain and snow. I find giving the truck what it wants to keep it happy.
This is a fantastic. I love the use of the vintage footage and artwork as opposed to the AI art seen in some of your older videos. Keep it coming!
It's loaded with AI art
@@pyroblasten Not really. There's the background images with the springs, a picture at 5:53, the image at 7:47, and the garage background at 10:52. Not exactly "loaded" in my opinion, especially compared to his older content, hence my comment about the improvement.
Watched from Jamaica and my father owned Ford trucks for many years and he loved his twin I beam. But now he owns 2.7 EcoBoost and will be 86 soon.
One thing I'll say about the twin I beam, it holds alignment like no other. I got the alignment right on my Ranger's front end, I didn't have to touch it again for the next 10 years. All I did was rotate the tires every 5k miles, and I consistently got darn near perfect wear across multiple sets of tires.
Lucky.
@robertsolomielke5134 nah, they're just built strong. Most you'll have to do to keep the alignment where it is is make sure your bushings are in order. Assuming you got the right alignment in the first place, anyway. I accidentally wanged my tire into a barrier in a parking lot the other day. Horrendous bang noise. Checked that the wheel and tire didn't appear damaged at a glance. Went on about my day. Drive perfectly since. I'm not at all concerned that I messed up the alignment. If anything was gonna get bent, it would have been the cheap steel wheel.
Bushings are the main thing that will usually cause alignment issues on a TIB.
Great video and you know your stuff. I'd love to have more videos about what's underneath the Bullnose. I'm trying to learn more about mine. Thanks for the video. 1985 4X4 EFI
Thanks for sharing your experience.
Today's stuff is way better, wishbones, independent coils , don't think this design will be repeated anytime soon. Nice work in explaining the I beam action.
No it isn't. My 78 E-150 has gone over half a million miles without needing major repairs to the front I beam suspension.The only big problem I know of is when the King Pins don't get greased for years...
I love the Twin I Beams. I understand them. Alignment? I was the guy in the Alignment pit setting the camber with 2 20 ton jacks and chains.
Yep, I too owned two 4X4 F-250 with front solid axles and dam they went through tires like a hot knife in butter and yet my 91 Explorer 'Twin Traction beams' went on 300,000 miles and for 15 years and tires were never a problem ! Go figure ? Since then, all my Fords RWD and AWD have been independent front ends.
Fun video, thanks.
I drove TTB Ford vehicles about 20 years, using them in some extremely arduous off-road applications. Yes, the dynamic camber and alignment difficulty was a challenge. The biggest drawback of the TTB was that Ford chronically equipped TTB trucks with inadequate soft front springs and shocks--presumably to make the vehicle ride better. Replacing the front springs and shocks with heavier duty versions would improve their handling, performance, and reduce dynamic camber alignment issues, with just a modest decrease in riding comfort. Depending on one's viewpoint, the TTB was the best or worst compromise between a solid front axle and a fully independent front suspension. On the positive side, the TTB captured many of the advantages of an IFS while retaining most of the toughness of a solid front axle. On the negative side, the TTB captured much of the unsprung weight disadvantage of a solid front axle while only capturing some of the advantages of an IFS. In essence, both opinions are true.
Best thing for alignment for Ford twin i beam is don’t mess with it. Set the tow-in and make sure you rotate your tires every 5,000 miles. The 65-79 twin I beam, the only way to adjust the camber and caster, is to bend the I beam. It will never behave like double a arm suspension, so learn to live with the quirks of twin I beam, or choose a different brand of truck
Wrong.
I fully support your pearl-snap, saw-tooth-pocketed shirt... bet it's a Wrangler!
To be honest I'm not sure where the shirt came from. I went into my closet after I became a dad and there were a whole bunch of them in there. Sure are comfy though. 😁
Hey I know the 4x4 beams are unequal length. Does anyone have the stock driver and passenger beam lengths for the Dana 44 and Dana 50 set ups? Been a nightmare to find online.
Check some junkyards if you havnt already, there are still lots of 90's trucks floating around that may have compatible parts.
I have one of each, on an F350 and a bronco, I accidentally drove my stock bronco "accidentally" off a 6 foot cliff at about 30 mph, it bounced and other then crushing the bump stops came out unscathed. I've been a fan ever since.... I do change a lot of RF tires though on my 350
Here's everything you need to know about ttb suspension.
It's the cheapest way to get massive travel, and it sucks at everything.
The solid front axle on the two wheel drive Jeep XJ Cherokee has the same geometry as the 4x4 version. Works very well. Everybody needs an XJ.
I still miss my 79 F250 with the 460, C6 and dual tanks. Ole 2 wd farm truck..
My 2005 Super Duty W/T 2wd with obd1 emissions and 2 valve 5.4 uses the twin I beam and is my daily driver work truck. Rides nice for an F250 and powerful combo; threated to quit when offered a new Nissan van to replace it.
Ford is still using Twin I Beam in the 2wd Super Duty trucks, and my modern local repair shop has no issues maintaining it.
Very popular in south america.
I’m not trying to correct you Mr. Bullnose, but I always thought the 1966 F-100 model was first year of the twin I beam. When I was younger I had a 1966, and my brother-in-law had a 1965…his was single I beam, and mine was obviously a twin I beam 🤔
I have an '81 E370 1 ton box van with Twin I-Beam that I want to convert to TTB. Is there a guide somewhere for doing this swap? I own a fab shop and can build anything, but would much prefer to do it with stock, bolt-in parts if possible. I only intend to use 4wd in the snow, not gonna be wheeler. I already have a collection of off road toys.
I have only seen ONE Econoline swapped to TTB, its in Australia...Almost ALL Econoline 4x4 conversions are Straight Axle...
Guess I know where to look when I need some understanding about my 85 f150
Can we get a breakdown of ranger/bronco II equipment? Like the 2.9L V6 and A4LD transmission?
The Era of Rangers and Bronco II's have the same suspension but smaller.
@@wilecatrexy Yup. I love the fact the D44 hubs, knuckles and stub shafts swap right onto the Dana 35 TTB inner parts. I'm shopping around for just such a swap on my '95 Ranger right now.
The 2.9: if it hasn't blown a head gasket or cracked a head yet it probably won't... as long as you never let it run hot.
The a4ld: like every other ford overdrive transmission from that time frame, swap it for a manual. I highly recommend buying a complete parts truck for the swap. Take pictures, label fasteners. It's a pretty easy job if you have a parts truck with everything needed.
@@aaadamt964 as tempting as the manual swap is the automatic has treated be very well so far, then again I dont stress it out very much, I do take some trails with it but I never push that transmission very hard, I am curious about its internals however, the mechanics of the 2.9L and the A4LD, it just fascinates me on how they work internally. but yeah the 2.9L has been one of the best engines I have come across, but I do watch my temp given its head cracking issue.
@@rhekman I know the 83-88 Bronco II's run Dana 28, its not hard to swap in a Dana 35 as the 89-90 Bronco II came with Dana 35's from factory, handy considering, As far as I'm aware, the Dana 28 has no aftermarket support or support in general.
I have four trucks with this suspension and only one had ever been aligned, the toe was misadjusted by an alignment shop.
Uneven tire wear hasn't been a problem and even rotation hasn't been necessary except for the misaligned truck.
My advice is if yours is straight and working well, an alignment shop is very likely going to screw it up for you.
Yup, my TTB Ranger started chewing up front tires, but only after 20+ years, a quarter million miles, and a completely roached right front radius arm bushing completely threw off the caster. I had to replace the sagged coil springs to get ride height back into spec, but once I got the caster to within quarter degree left and right, everything's right as rain.
These trucks need a seasoned alignment guy, modern "technicians" don't know what to do with them...
I personally love the TTB.. however alignment has always been a pain. They're very heavy duty!
The camber is adjustable, there is a offset bushing where the top balljoint connects to, you turn it to the desired camber then tighten the balljoint down
Also, make the adjustments with the vehicle on the ground as if you were about to drive it
It depends on the year model. My '74 F100 has kingpins and no ball joints.
I really like my 85 f350 4x4 pickup. Wouldn't trade it for any late model trucks or cars.
I was the only alignment tech in the county that could properly align a twin I-beam. Then I retired
I have a 86 f150 bought new it doesn't go straight down the road without having to steer it. With a load in the bed it's real hard to keep it on the road. I also have a 80 model c 10 Chevy with the independent suspension and have neither of those problems
Have you set your steering box at bottom dead center and the set your pitman arm on it with the wheels perfectly straight? It makes a huge difference when it's s lined up and I drove for years with a constant pull to the right until the steering box started leaking. I decided to overhaul it myself and I centered the pitman arm correctly this time unlike when I installed the thing 11 years earlier, I couldn't believe the difference. I was happy and angry at the same time. Perhaps this tidbit of trial and error can help you with your situation. Once the steering box is centered, it shouldn't have this issue anymore unless your steering ball joints are shot. The bushings where the beams articulate might be bad, but they would have to be pretty trashed for it to be really noticable. Hope this helps.
You can still get twin I beam on 2wd 250-350 pickups.
The twin i beam gose clear into the 2010s i think when they went to something else in the aluminum duty but I might be wrong.
INFOtisum I know admonish me for not knowing all but I had a 2010 and a 2007 F250 with the twin I beam
Twin I beam is still used for f250 and f350 2wd
2012 F250 xlt, 6.2 rwd, 50k+ mile tire changes, 5k rotate, 160k on chassis, half those miles pull 12k 5th wheel since new, 8.5mpg towing, 14 'round town. Oh, it wears the outside of left front, otherwise i would probably get 70k per tire swap.
decades ago I shop i worked for, we bent the beams to change camber. not often...but there were no other options then
Sold lots of tires, thank you Ford.....
Being an automotive enthusiast I find myself often studying unconventional practices. This system being one of them. Over here in Britain and European cars in general it's usually just a bread and butter McPherson strut set up. But it seems in the US there is all sorts of novel set ups. I was surprised to learn the 1994 Mustang has the spring and strut separate with the steering knuckle on the damper. The corvette leaf spring is a odd one too. Though I later discovered some of our cars did it too. Torsion bars on dodge b bodies. Jag e types used the same set up funnily enough. I don't think anyone has replicated the Citroen 2 CV set up. That's just weird.
Ford is always first at most everything. In about the middle of 1964 Ford came out with the Mustang in 1967 GM came out with the Camaro, The list goes on and on. Thanks for good video.
My 1986 F-250 TTB wandered all over the place. No amount of alignments could fix it. Then came the center swivel joint leaking.
The vans always wore stuff out worse/faster. Why? The constant loading and unloading of the vans changes the ride height and camber angles (subsequently toe), can't keep tires on em.
I thought toe should be done last. Camber change can affect toe.
As far as I know TIB is still used on F250/F350 trucks 60 years later.
I have a '19 f250 with twin I beam.
It's a good system I'll be at a little tippy.
I'll stick with my 90's Dodge torsion bar 4x4 setup.
The Twin I-Beam might have come out in 65 and still used on 2WD Superduty trucks. - But the change from Kingpins to Ball Joints was good for adjustments, bad for durability. I have a Kingpin Econoline that is on its 2nd set of kingpins (500K) and now at 770K miles, since 1978. - I have a Ball joint pickup that is used like a car, and at 300K its on its 3rd set of ball joints and I am a grease gun jockey....They just don't hold up.
The "Siscor-Acton SLAP-PENSION" Was ALWAYS "OUT of Alignment".../a quarter inch pebbel was enough to "Through ya in a Ditch". Ford & Firestone always had an " Agreement"; Ford- we will build a cheep-junky vehicle that WILL torture& wearout tires/ Firestone- we will make a LOT of tires fer ALL the junky fords.
This is the most uneducated comment here. - Especially considering EVERY Ford Econoline Ambulance since 1975 has this suspension, and when lives are on the line, only the best will do!
It should have never been replaced by the new IFS they should've just kept refining it.
And then you have the king pins. No adjustment just deal with it.
Just set the toe in and you are good to go.
I've seen them bend slightly throwing the camber off. Other then messing with spring height and such the only way to adjust them without undersizing the king pins is to bend the axle. It's nice to have a jig for this, but I've never seen one
What I've done is, take a bottle jack and place it under the I beam. Take an old rim and cut it apart and weld a bunch of supports, then fit another bottle jack on the king pin and use a torch to heat the I beam then very gently start to bend it. Don't go to hot or you'll compromise the I beam
If you go to far it's a pain to reverse it
@@adamm1998 Yes. Had an alignment job at a shop with a T-pit built for bending/twisting semi axles. Replaced/repaired kingpins and bosses.. camber/caster correction, depending on deflection, is challenging yet oddly satisfying.. if yer into not being beaten by a chunk of steel that refuses to do it's job. 'Crummys' are the worst.. badly abused.. replaced my fair share of radius rod hangers, right up there with TREs and axle pivots.
I'll take an old Ford over anything because they can take anything you give it.
I worked on the Brown Econoline vans for 17 years. Most went out on the gravel, rock and dirt roads. We never took them to alignment shops. When ever you replaced suspension bushings or did kingpins, we set the toe 1/16-1:8” and sent them down the road. We never had tire wear issues that were alignment related. Make sure to use anti seize on all the bushings and kingpins
Ppl will defend this crapy design like its their firstborn.
The Econoline used the twin i-beam all the way until its cancelation in 2014.
Tire wear was only a problem for constantly overloaded trucks like F250s and F350s used for tow trucks.
Even on solid axles with radius arms you can get odd wear. Going from empty to loaded, the axle moving in an arc can change alignment relative to the ground.
@@tangydiesel1886 You are correct as heavy loads change caster.
Possibly the worst suspension system ever devised for a pickup truck. Had an 85 F150 and servicing the ball joints was a nightmare. Had to remove those gigantic arms, and take them to a spring shop who had such difficulty pressing them out that he told me to never come back again. GM had a much simpler control arm system. Twin i-beams were a stupid idea. If you want independent suspension, just go to control arms. If you want the strength of a solid axle and leaf springs like a medium duty truck, make it a solid axle
The Ford Twin I Beam are great, best ever made.
Step one in aligning these designs is to replace the pivot bushings, or your alignment efforts will be in vain. Not replacing loose bushings is the cause of much angst. Tire wear is as good as any other design if the tires are rotated every 5000 miles.
Alignment ? Toe and go ! unless you have access to a heavy truck alignment shop. Just keep bushings , ball joints and linkage in good shape it will out last you.
Bump steer is awful, ask anyone with an F series class C camper
OK first of all, I haven't seen an "F-series" Class-C since the 70's....They are all ECONOLINE Based...and I have owned several over the last 45 years, I have no problems.
They toe out on bump and rebound. Which eats tires. A couple of us who know suspension geometry spend some time many years ago trying to figure out a way to get the steering linkage to track the suspension travel. It's simply not possible. Ford has used several different tie rod lay outs over the decades. None of them work.
There's another real drawback. The high roll center of the semi leading arm design means that if you cut the steering wheel hard to one side and hit the brakes hard at the same time the suspension wants to jack up on the outside and roll under, flipping the truck. I have seen people do this. The TTB with shorter swing arms makes this effect about twice as bad. Lethal.
Yes, they ride well. Yes, they are hard to break. And an absolute loser otherwise. Hordes of owners who love them because they just don't understand the drawbacks. You wont find many alignment techs who will own one.
Interesting. My dad owned an alignment shop for 4 decades. All he owned since he left Ford, was Twin I Beam Fords. - I still own some he had...I don't see an issue with them. - I will not own a TTB truck, mostly because real 4x4 trucks have straight axles.
Worst suspension ever !!!
The Twin I Beam suspension was terrible for staying in your lane. Actually dangerous. I owned several and they were all bad.
DONT rotate your tires.
Rotating the tires just means you will need to buy a complete set sooner.
It’s going to wear the edges on the front tires, period.
Accept that, or buy a Chevy.
If found the ratio to be 2:1.
2 pairs of front tires to 1 pair of rear tires.
If yo rotate the tires, you just end up with 4 tires worn on the edges, needing premature replacement instead of just 2 front tires replaced at the half-life of the rear.
Probably not the best designed trucks ever, but they can take way more abuse than the modern excuse for a truck.
When I was growing up, pickup = bulldozer.
2012 F250 xlt, 6.2, rwd 50k+ miles between tire changes, rotate @5k, pull 12000lb 5th wheel, on 4th set @160k MILES, 8.5mpg
Only need to know, they are junk and a pain to keep in spec. Swap to solid and fix the issue.
The worst driving truck that I ever had! My CJ7 Jeep drove better!
The AI art looks terrible
The Best two tracking truck ever 😁
I wish my gm had a ford front end then i could call it a truck, and thats it no hurtful comments from you ford guys about my gm😅 actually I've learned to look and appreciate the good in them all.
All Rangers squeak. The camber change upsets cornering. It was worse with the Explorer.