Capitalists make more sense when you understand they're idiots and they lie because they legally control all the money customers give them and think that entitles them to abuse and mistreat workers.
Meanwhile the CEO unfortunately due to the economic downturn we decided to lay off x% of people. "I take full responsibility for that by cashing millions stock options 😂"
If you can adequately perform both AND abide by the terms of both employment agreements. As an employee rather than a contractor they have the right to set conditions of employment, and if one of the conditions, like most jobs, is specific work hours or availability of certain hours, an explicit clause banning moonlighting, etc., then you can’t do both at the same time. However, if the terms of at least one of the employments is simply “complete xyz tasks as assigned within hours of your own selection,” then it’s absolutely not unethical to do both. I more question why he, as an MBA, think it’s makes more sense for him to work two half-assed 40 hour a week jobs vs working one job that he actually applies himself too…
I lean with the two jobs thing but can also see the other side - if you are paying someone to for some service I wouldn't want them working on others at the same time. Guess it depends on the functions of the job. If it is doing taxes or any finance related job then no, but yes if just cooking a burger.
These “agreements” are just a formality. There is no contract in most cases. In an At Will state, you won’t convince me it’s unethical unless the person gets bad performance reviews. In that case, they need to quit and find something they can manage.
I don’t understand how THIS unethical but working a “side hustle” at Pizza Hut after work is ethical. It’s no one’s business what you do on your free time. Even it’s another job.
@@9770G The host said even working one job during the day and another at night is unethical if you don't tell each about the other, which is non-sense.
@@9770G A salary job is "up to" 40 hours a week. There are no legally required hours to work a salary position. You just have to keep up with work demands.
What is unethical is the company expecting anything from you beyond the time they are purchasing from you to work, and the work product. If you are delivering the work, that is the end of the deal. Companies have made their obligation to that deal pretty clear.
These people are so anti work from home. It is ethical is work two jobs at once. If you're not working both at the same time, you do not need to tell your employers.
But I think he is asking if it's okay to work two jobs during the same hours. Like as long as you're getting all of your work done for both jobs and staying productive, is it okay to do someone else's work on someone else's time? Honestly I don't care if it's ethical😂
Work from home is great. Anyone that disagrees either fails at it so they think everyone else should operate the exact same way they do or just mad because heaven forbid some of us ENJOY staying home and can making our living doing it too. Some of the brain-dead takes I've seen is "well eventually they will outsource all remote jobs" wrong. WFH roles have been around forever and these dumbasses don't realize that some companies couldn't outsource even if they wanted to ... like mine. I work for a GLOBAL fortune 500 and they need me where I am as my other teammates work in other states/countries. Its extreme amateur takes from people who have never worked in a professional high level job before than thinks everything can be outsourced to India, thats not how it works at all. I only have one high paying job but my point still stands WFH is great, everyone should make as much money as possible doing it the best way that works for them and retire as early as possible so you can start to really enjoy life. There is zero reason to return to office if your role doesn't need it. Leave that trash company and find one that gives you what you want. WE hold the keys to the future, not corporations, this is YOUR LIFE not theirs on how the future working place will be shaped. I refuse to look back in my life and see I was just tug around by what others 'think' is right or trying to shame me or make feel guilty about a great WFH job because they are super salty. I work to live, not live to work.
Work from home means commercial real estate lose money from renting office space. Maybe these guys have a financial interest to look down on remote work?
Is it ethical to do layoffs the second you see a downturn in profits even though the company will be just fine? No. Will they do it anyways? Absolutely. If you can do both jobs without any downside to them, why not. Your job doesn’t need to know everything in your life
You know what's unethical these companies lay off you without thinking twice in a downturn. Folks don't think too much just go grab as much bag as you can
I was thinking the same thing. “Professional Polygamy?” 🤦🏼♂️. It’s called having a second job when you’re done with your main grind. People do it all the time, if they can.
I don't get the confusion here. People are talking about taking two full time jobs during simultaneous hours, not taking on a second job and working separate hours.
@@garrettwatson2737 but he gave the example of working one job during the day and another at night as still being unethical, which would be the same concept as getting a side gig delivering pizza on your off days
@@emilymark8655 He said that doing so without having the employers know would be unethical, not ruling it out entirely. But I disagree with him on that too. It's not the employer's business what someone does on their off hours if there isn't a preexisting agreement to not work other jobs.
"only" I had an employer that paid me not to work or work for anyone else. $60K/yr to camp, fish, hunt, bike ride, ... This was the deal, so I would not work for the competition.
@@adamseidel9780 no they do not dude, they “own” your capacity to get the work done. In reality they don’t own shit. They signed an agreement with you to get the work done. It’s so clear how many people still have serf mentalities when having discussions like these:
@@Riggy931 you are trading, in effect selling, some combination of your time and output (depending on the nature of the position) in return for your agreed on compensation. They very literally absolutely do own our output! If you are an engineer designing software for your employer, for example, they own it! If you quit your job tomorrow, you don’t get to take it with you, it’s theirs. The same is true for the money they pay you, that is YOURS, you own it! Of COURSE they own your output, that’s the point of the free exchange!
@@adamseidel9780the agreement is to get the work done that needs to be done. To piggy back off your software engineer example, if they need you to develop a certain software within the week, but you work your ass off and finish it after 3 days, in those 2 extra days you'll be given more work. The other engineers who create a similar software but over the 5 days will have done less work than you but you'll be paid the same pay cheque. If you wish to be owned, by all means work yourself to the bone until you burn out. The rest of us however see things for what they are. It makes more sense to pace yourself over the 5 days instead of overexerting yourself. Now let's say you do decide to actually work your ass off. Instead of developing software for 1 company you decide to develop software for 2 different companies. You complete both tasks within the 5 day deadline you were given and get 2 pay cheques. How is any of that an issue? The companies you work for are not your lords. It's a mere exchange of labour for money. What the labour produces is not yours, but your labour will always be yours. The reason that guy says you have a serf mentality is because you think the company literally owns you. It's a corporate slave mentality
It’s ethical. I just started my second remote job writing grants for a charitable organization. Plus there are some folks who work an office job and don’t do any work. It’s about your personal work ethic. You can’t knock the hustle.
No, because you are not working both jobs simultaneously. Many people witch two remote jobs are doing both simultanously, doing one job on the other's time.
@@amireallythatgrumpy6508 How is that unethical? companies can lay you off at any point for no reason and call it "cost reduction" having loyalty to a company that has none to you is stupid, ridiculing people for their life decisions is also stupid. If the work is getting completed the work is getting completed however many jobs the individual may have...
@@amireallythatgrumpy6508 Many WFH jobs don’t really have set hours and are salaried. So how the company even “claim” what you can do with your time as long as you are delivering and performing what you agreed to?
@@Poomayne Many are NOT. Salaries also have an implied hourly rate attached to them. It's also very difficult to perform what you agreed to while you have the demands of the other job in your mind. To do this effectively requires you to be able to compartmentalise in a way that Americans are simply not intelligent enough to be good at.
My obligation to my work is to complete the labor within the job description and to be available at the agreed upon hours. What I choose to do in my off hours is no one’s business but my own. Your employer ultimately will always look after their interests and I think that you should look after your own and your family’s. The only case I would say this is morally questionable would be if you were working for two direct competitors.
I live in the DC area as well. It’s incredibly expensive here and increasing. When in debt (which I believe that most people here are), you have to legally do what you have to to do to clean it up. Work two jobs. Don’t tell them about each other and get out of debt fast. Put some aside for tax increases and live you life. It’s none of their concern what you do as long as you fulfill your duties.
Your job isn’t deserving of any ethical consideration. If your performance at either doesn’t suffer, work both if you want. You don’t owe an employer anything but a job being completed.
It’s news to me that salary jobs have this “40 hour” work week. I’ve never worked a salary job where time was specified. In fact, it was results driven. This is why salary was invented. It’s not unethical at all if you’re meeting expectations, which I always get good performance reviews.
I worked for Securitas and USA Security Associates both Security guard companies. I worked Black Friday for both companies at the same Wal-Mart for 12 hours. I had no issue with it being ethical.
That’s the moral issue there. If company is paying you to work 8am-4pm It becomes unethical to working a different job on those hours. (That’s if the job is “time based” if it’s assignment based, that’s different) I completely disagree with the host when they said about working two jobs on different hours. For me, there is absolutely no problem working two jobs at different hours in the day
@@brianyaeger8209 yeah but we are talking specifically about remote work here. More often than not, you’re not paid by your time but rather your output.
It's funny they found it unethical and cheating. Today, I was asked in my fully remote job to cover someone who is on a medical leave without date of return, I wasn't offered an incentive, a raise, a bonus or NOTHING, isn't that unethical from the companies to do that to employees? I was never rold I have to do my job responsibilities and cover others while they are out. How many companies out there make employees to do the job of 2-3 employees and just pay one salary? This is the only thing I don't like about thr Ramseys their hate for work from home people.
Is/was it ethical for colleges and universities to dupe ppl inti thousands of dollars of debt before they truly understand what they are getting themselves into?
And there lies in the common issue conservative Americans have. They never see a problem with corporations and institutions being immoral or unethical.
I have two engineering jobs. One is remote and the other is not. They both know about each other and I have an office set up for the remote at the other’s physical office. It is a lot of work, but everyone is happy.
Do what works best for you. Who gets to decide what is "unethical". Keep working and get yourself out of debt and get ahead. I'm proud of anyone who is doing what they have to do to achieve a certain goal. YOU GOT THIS!
How is ethics associated to withholding information from companies that only provides awareness and does no harm, especially if the companies aren’t competing (assuming they aren’t)?
I would say that even if they were competing, it’s still fine. For example, who cares if you work at McDonalds AND Burger King? The only way I would say that it makes a difference if they’re competing is if it’s actually written in their employee contract.
If Dennis from Washington is scrolling through the comments, don’t listen to these two idiots. You’re employer probably wouldn’t think twice of terminating you without notice to increase their profits. Don’t be loyal or “faithful” to companies that would never be loyal or faithful with you. 2 other tips: never sign non competes and always apply to jobs even if you already have one (or 2 😉). If they find out and fire you for working 2 jobs, you’ll have several job offers ready for you to accept and keep it moving. 😎
As a small business owner, I have to respectfully disagree with you guys today. To me there is nothing unethical about someone who is willing to hustle and work 2 jobs. I have 0 problems with that as long as my work is getting completed. If anything, it reinforced my decision to hire them BECAUSE they are hard workers!!!
If you’re paying someone for 8 hours, you would expect them to be working on your tasks, not on a task for someone else. You would expect them to be at your work meetings, and not have to reschedule because they have a meeting with someone else. There are conflicts that the speakers did not even go into. I know people who have worked two full time jobs at the same time. It’s unethical, and there will be guaranteed conflicts. From missed meeting, to tasks being delivered late. This is not the same as freelancing.
@@dete503 salary is based on time and productivity. It is assumed you are being paid for a 40 hour work week. Freelance is results only. The fact that people can’t share that they are working another job simultaneously with their employer is dishonest. You can not effectively serve two masters.
I really to want to hear Deloney, Coleman, or anyone from the Ramsey staff respond to this video. Judging from the comments, it seems like NO ONE agrees with them on this one! 😅
When you work remote, companies may pay you full time but most do NOT expect you to work 8 hrs. They expect your work to be done. If this is the case for these companies, it is not unethical at all. If they expect you to work 8 hours, then working on something else during the other’s company’s work time would he unethical. Very simple 🤷🏽♂️
The only "unethical" part of this is the fact you can work two 100k a year jobs at the same time... Goes to show how easy remote jobs are. Many people are breaking their back to make 60k a year at an in person job.
I don't believe it's unethical as long as there are no noticeable drops in performance. I know of situations where the full time job does not cover the bills and an easy part time job that's done asynchronously can cover the difference. If the primary job can't pay enough to cover living expenses, they need to expect that the employee will seek additional or other employment.
I have to disagree. There is nothing unethical about working two jobs. If you’re work performance is the same for both companies, then why does it matter. People have been working multiple jobs since the beginning of time to make ends meet. The only way I can see this being problematic is if you’re someone in a higher level position with access to certain confidential company information working for a direct competitor. However, this is not the case for the average worker. If you think working multiple jobs is unethical, then direct that same energy toward the companies that aren’t paying living wages.
Got a new job that pays well, but my boss today basically said we should be working more than 40 hrs a week bc that’s the nature of the job. What? Ok. So, I am an exempt salaried employee and get no overtime, but you are expecting I give more time…nope.
"Ethics" is a nebulous concept. They are not really defined, like rules and laws. There are several different ethical theories. There's no right or wrong answer to most "ethical dilemmas." If your companies don't require you to notify them or ask then it's fine. I'm curious if either of these guys have actually taken a business ethics class.
Since raising kids is a full time job, I guess I'll need to ask my employer for permission before having any. I wouldn't want to upset Ken by doing something unethical. In all seriousness, there's nothing wrong with working two jobs that have separate working hours, and you have no obligation to notify anyone if the companies aren't operating in the same industry. Working two jobs during the same hours with competing companies is obviously unethical, but my boss doesn't get to prevent me from delivering pizzas or driving for Uber outside of his business hours.
Screw ethics. The company doesn't care about you. Make the most amount of money doing the least amount possible to not get fired. Play them like they play you
I disagree. You absolutely have no ethical obligation to tell them. If you are getting the work done your only ethical obligation is to not lie if asked about it.
Is he hurting anyone? Is he finishing his work? Are the employers satisfied with his work? If the answer is yes, yes, and yes then nothing is unethical. What's unethical is someone has to work two jobs to survive.
DON’T LISTEN to these clowns. Why should a company be able to dictate your work hours? If he wants to work 8 hours for one company and 8 hours for the other, then that’s up to him. As long as he’s getting this work done who cares?! Each company doesn’t need to know about this. Who dictates that someone can only work 8 hours a day for one company??!! That’s how you get ahead. Don’t listen to these people.
As long as you can competently complete the job, work both, especially if it's at different hours. No job has need to know you're working a second unless there's a schedule conflict.
Keep a primary job that you defend at any cost, do not risk it For 2nd, 3rd, 4th jobs be increasingly demanding. Demand more pay, better hours, more flexibility, fewer meetings, etc You have the power because you don't care. You get the job do it well, but otherwise peace out.
Completely ethical. People have worked multiple jobs for decades. As long as there isn't a conflict of interest between the two and you're able to fulfill your responsibilities to both then there's no problem. This idea of making your employers aware of the each other is irrelevant. Your not beholden to your employer beyond your hours of work.
As a salaried employee, you get paid for the work that you do, not the time that you work. Our job offers/contracts do not require us to disclose other forms of incomes. It’s not unethical, it’s just a new concept to many.
I have two full time jobs and drive for UberEats and Doordash. This allowed me to pay of my debt. I'm now living debt free and loving life. I now get to save up to buy my dream car with cash and still be debt free! My car is only 35% of my annual income too. I work jobs that are fully remote and let A.I. (Artifical Intelligence) software do most of my work. I drive Doordash and UberEats at least 50 hours a week at the same time. I'm getting my work done the way my employer want it. Yes they know about my situation and they don't mind. If you can get two or more jobs then do it!
My employer had a “primary” clause. You can have another job or side gigs as long as it doesn’t interfere with your primary job. We don’t really have remote work though so it’s harder to do the remote job overlap.
Totally disagree! First of all, I commend the young man for even having the mindset to want to pay down his student loan debt. Secondly, given the fact that people often work multiple jobs, I don’t see how this is that much different. Working two remote jobs should be totally fine, as long as there is not a conflict of interest, and as long as he performs well for both companies.
How is this unethical? Is it written in the contract? And when Dave Ramsey and your team recommends working Uber or delivering pizza, is that unethical? The employer does not own the employee. As long as the employee is fully present for both positions, then it’s no one’s business. For some reason this “advice” really bothers me. I’ve never disagreed more.
Their conclusions are completely hypocritical. There is another video in this series where Dave Ramsey tells a caller that is in deep debt to, "Work like a maniac at the best possible paying side hustle." A "side hustle" is just a trendy name with for a second job(s). I'm not sure why driving for Uber or Lyft or waiting tables would be ok but a second remote job with a complete full salary and benefits is no good and terribly unethical. It just shows that these people are deeply prejudiced against anyone working from home because they think that somehow that's "cheating."
If you aren’t violating agreed to terms of employment then there is absolutely nothing unethical about it. Professional cheating? Unless you have agreed not to work anywhere else, an employer has no right to expect that you will not do so.
Totally not ethical: Using your best skills to command the highest wage from second employer. Totally ethical: Delivering pizza for Dominoes for minimum wage at night and working as a janitor on the weekends.
Yet these companies don’t want to pay people a livable wage! That’s immoral! People shouldn’t have to work two jobs to live. Simply pay EVERYONE a livable wage.
ridiculous. Caller should do what's best for him and his financial future. If you can do both jobs without performance hindrance then do it. You owe the companies nothing.
I work two jobs and both employees know it! Neither have an issue and both are flexible with my schedule. I want to retire comfy and determined to do so.
Most larger companies have an outside employment policy where you are required to clear conflicts of interest. So if you're working two jobs without disclosure you're exposing yourself to termination.
@@ecthelion205 When you go to work for 1 company you agree to follow their rules and policies. Failure to do so may result in termination. Get hurt at one job and explain it to your 2nd job. Keep in mind there is a workers comp data base......Saying you were injured playing sports is unethical. Being honest is part of being an adult.
@@alinatamashevich3354 not sure where you were going with this. All those things I think I agree with. But my question; is something unethical only because a certain company says it? It’s a first principles question.
It’s not any more unethical than you guys working extra money delivering pizza and door dash. Did you tell the other jobs that you are doing that. If you are servicing the same type of industry then there is an ethical decision but if the companies are in different fields there is no ethics involved.
The hell what they talking keep doing both. Ramsey folks got their opinion that dont make it right. You dont owe these jobs nothing who would replace you at the drop of a dime.
The jobs don't need to know about it unless there is some overlap. I know these guys don't expect people with a regular 9-5 and do UBER eats or a night warehouse job to tell their main job about it because that doesn't make sense. But so many people have a problem with it once it's two "high-paying jobs." I wouldn't do it because the stress would probably kill me, but I don't see an issue.
The only unethical aspect of it is working for company A while being paid by company B. If you do one in the morning and one at night there is no ethics concerns. It’s none of their business. Only exception is if your employer requires notification such as a public employee.
Meanwhile CEOs are usually on the board of a few companies. Unethical
Capitalists make more sense when you understand they're idiots and they lie because they legally control all the money customers give them and think that entitles them to abuse and mistreat workers.
Ha ha. Yep. These people want to keep people from moving up. Don’t listen to them.
Exactly. Such a dumb take. If you can be effective at 1000 jobs at the same time, go for it!
Meanwhile the CEO unfortunately due to the economic downturn we decided to lay off x% of people. "I take full responsibility for that by cashing millions stock options 😂"
Board positions are not full time. They are being compensated for their experience and judgement not for their time.
You can work as many jobs as you want as long as they don't have a conflict of interest or performance is compromised.
Thank u
Exactly. Otherwise we are making up arbitrary rules
Even if it is management should fire those people remember these companies won't think twice before laying you off in an economy downturn
@@tkdevlop Absolutely. Is it ethical for companies to participant in monopoly?
Thank you.
If this person can adequately perform on both jobs then there really isnt any reason why it would be unethical 😂
If you can adequately perform both AND abide by the terms of both employment agreements. As an employee rather than a contractor they have the right to set conditions of employment, and if one of the conditions, like most jobs, is specific work hours or availability of certain hours, an explicit clause banning moonlighting, etc., then you can’t do both at the same time. However, if the terms of at least one of the employments is simply “complete xyz tasks as assigned within hours of your own selection,” then it’s absolutely not unethical to do both.
I more question why he, as an MBA, think it’s makes more sense for him to work two half-assed 40 hour a week jobs vs working one job that he actually applies himself too…
I lean with the two jobs thing but can also see the other side - if you are paying someone to for some service I wouldn't want them working on others at the same time. Guess it depends on the functions of the job. If it is doing taxes or any finance related job then no, but yes if just cooking a burger.
If they're not giving him 8 hours of work, then he's free to do whatever the other 4 hours
These “agreements” are just a formality. There is no contract in most cases. In an At Will state, you won’t convince me it’s unethical unless the person gets bad performance reviews. In that case, they need to quit and find something they can manage.
Especially if you're doing it during different hours of the week, then it's none of their business what you do in your 'free' time
What's unethical is that people need to work multiple full-time jobs to make ends meet.
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Nope. Screw them. He should keep doing this.
I don’t understand how THIS unethical but working a “side hustle” at Pizza Hut after work is ethical. It’s no one’s business what you do on your free time. Even it’s another job.
It’s not free time tho, because he’s working those two jobs at the same hours. Not separate hours
@@wordsalad01 If you can perform to the necessary productive standards for both jobs simultaneously, it is not unethical.
@@9770G If you can perform to the necessary productive standards for both jobs simultaneously, it is not unethical.
@@9770G The host said even working one job during the day and another at night is unethical if you don't tell each about the other, which is non-sense.
@@9770G A salary job is "up to" 40 hours a week. There are no legally required hours to work a salary position. You just have to keep up with work demands.
I bet some of Dave's staff is doing 2 full-time jobs😂😂😂
....doing Uber to pay off their debts 😁🤣🤣
But not multiple REMOTE jobs...
@@amireallythatgrumpy6508 why would the remote factor matter?
That would be sad if his billion dollar company actually pays any job position less than livable. His business is part of the problem.
@@wewhoareabouttodiesaluteyo9303 America is the whole problem.
Tell us if its professional polygamy when executives sit on boards of multiple companies, or talk show hosts write books and host multiple shows?
Funny how it's okay when they do it.
What is unethical is the company expecting anything from you beyond the time they are purchasing from you to work, and the work product. If you are delivering the work, that is the end of the deal. Companies have made their obligation to that deal pretty clear.
These people are so anti work from home.
It is ethical is work two jobs at once.
If you're not working both at the same time, you do not need to tell your employers.
Exactly
But I think he is asking if it's okay to work two jobs during the same hours. Like as long as you're getting all of your work done for both jobs and staying productive, is it okay to do someone else's work on someone else's time?
Honestly I don't care if it's ethical😂
Work from home is great. Anyone that disagrees either fails at it so they think everyone else should operate the exact same way they do or just mad because heaven forbid some of us ENJOY staying home and can making our living doing it too. Some of the brain-dead takes I've seen is "well eventually they will outsource all remote jobs" wrong. WFH roles have been around forever and these dumbasses don't realize that some companies couldn't outsource even if they wanted to ... like mine. I work for a GLOBAL fortune 500 and they need me where I am as my other teammates work in other states/countries. Its extreme amateur takes from people who have never worked in a professional high level job before than thinks everything can be outsourced to India, thats not how it works at all.
I only have one high paying job but my point still stands WFH is great, everyone should make as much money as possible doing it the best way that works for them and retire as early as possible so you can start to really enjoy life. There is zero reason to return to office if your role doesn't need it. Leave that trash company and find one that gives you what you want. WE hold the keys to the future, not corporations, this is YOUR LIFE not theirs on how the future working place will be shaped. I refuse to look back in my life and see I was just tug around by what others 'think' is right or trying to shame me or make feel guilty about a great WFH job because they are super salty. I work to live, not live to work.
@@RubeeRoja yes
Work from home means commercial real estate lose money from renting office space. Maybe these guys have a financial interest to look down on remote work?
Is it ethical to do layoffs the second you see a downturn in profits even though the company will be just fine? No. Will they do it anyways? Absolutely.
If you can do both jobs without any downside to them, why not. Your job doesn’t need to know everything in your life
responsibly putting food on the table is not only ethical, but much respected
How is that unethical? Will the company pay more to offset the cost difference of having a second job? Nope. So he should work the second job.
Time card fraud is illegal and unethical.
People at my university have been fired for doing this. 😳😳
@@samh5218 Oh, well. Don't work for stupid people.
You know what's unethical these companies lay off you without thinking twice in a downturn. Folks don't think too much just go grab as much bag as you can
How did the university find out?
Still haven't heard an actual explanation of why it's "infidelity" and Ramsey is all about 2nd, 3rd, 4th jobs and side hustles on baby step 2.
I was thinking the same thing. “Professional Polygamy?” 🤦🏼♂️. It’s called having a second job when you’re done with your main grind. People do it all the time, if they can.
I don't get the confusion here. People are talking about taking two full time jobs during simultaneous hours, not taking on a second job and working separate hours.
@@garrettwatson2737 but he gave the example of working one job during the day and another at night as still being unethical, which would be the same concept as getting a side gig delivering pizza on your off days
@@emilymark8655 He said that doing so without having the employers know would be unethical, not ruling it out entirely. But I disagree with him on that too. It's not the employer's business what someone does on their off hours if there isn't a preexisting agreement to not work other jobs.
The only way having two jobs is unethical is if you believe that your employer owns you during work hours
"only"
I had an employer that paid me not to work or work for anyone else.
$60K/yr to camp, fish, hunt, bike ride, ...
This was the deal, so I would not work for the competition.
They absolutely own your labor during hours you are working for them
@@adamseidel9780 no they do not dude, they “own” your capacity to get the work done. In reality they don’t own shit. They signed an agreement with you to get the work done. It’s so clear how many people still have serf mentalities when having discussions like these:
@@Riggy931 you are trading, in effect selling, some combination of your time and output (depending on the nature of the position) in return for your agreed on compensation. They very literally absolutely do own our output! If you are an engineer designing software for your employer, for example, they own it! If you quit your job tomorrow, you don’t get to take it with you, it’s theirs. The same is true for the money they pay you, that is YOURS, you own it! Of COURSE they own your output, that’s the point of the free exchange!
@@adamseidel9780the agreement is to get the work done that needs to be done.
To piggy back off your software engineer example, if they need you to develop a certain software within the week, but you work your ass off and finish it after 3 days, in those 2 extra days you'll be given more work. The other engineers who create a similar software but over the 5 days will have done less work than you but you'll be paid the same pay cheque.
If you wish to be owned, by all means work yourself to the bone until you burn out. The rest of us however see things for what they are. It makes more sense to pace yourself over the 5 days instead of overexerting yourself.
Now let's say you do decide to actually work your ass off. Instead of developing software for 1 company you decide to develop software for 2 different companies. You complete both tasks within the 5 day deadline you were given and get 2 pay cheques. How is any of that an issue? The companies you work for are not your lords. It's a mere exchange of labour for money. What the labour produces is not yours, but your labour will always be yours.
The reason that guy says you have a serf mentality is because you think the company literally owns you. It's a corporate slave mentality
It’s ethical. I just started my second remote job writing grants for a charitable organization. Plus there are some folks who work an office job and don’t do any work. It’s about your personal work ethic. You can’t knock the hustle.
There's nothing to be said beyond, "Ken's just wrong."
As long as you’re getting the work required done, to me it’s fine and ethical
This is why there's so many layoffs in Tech right now. They know people aren't working very hard which is. Why they have time For 2 jobs.
I work a full time 9-5. When I’m off I go bag groceries. Nothing is unethical about that.
No, because you are not working both jobs simultaneously. Many people witch two remote jobs are doing both simultanously, doing one job on the other's time.
@@amireallythatgrumpy6508 How is that unethical? companies can lay you off at any point for no reason and call it "cost reduction" having loyalty to a company that has none to you is stupid, ridiculing people for their life decisions is also stupid. If the work is getting completed the work is getting completed however many jobs the individual may have...
@@amireallythatgrumpy6508
Many WFH jobs don’t really have set hours and are salaried. So how the company even “claim” what you can do with your time as long as you are delivering and performing what you agreed to?
@@Poomayne Many are NOT. Salaries also have an implied hourly rate attached to them. It's also very difficult to perform what you agreed to while you have the demands of the other job in your mind. To do this effectively requires you to be able to compartmentalise in a way that Americans are simply not intelligent enough to be good at.
@@amireallythatgrumpy6508Speak for yourself buddy. It’s easier than ever to automate modern corporate jobs, welcome to 2024 old timer
Those companies have zero loyalty to you. They have no reason to expect it in return.
My obligation to my work is to complete the labor within the job description and to be available at the agreed upon hours. What I choose to do in my off hours is no one’s business but my own. Your employer ultimately will always look after their interests and I think that you should look after your own and your family’s. The only case I would say this is morally questionable would be if you were working for two direct competitors.
People have to do what they have to do. I don’t see a problem with it. This is how you do what you have to do to pay off your loans.
I live in the DC area as well. It’s incredibly expensive here and increasing. When in debt (which I believe that most people here are), you have to legally do what you have to to do to clean it up. Work two jobs. Don’t tell them about each other and get out of debt fast. Put some aside for tax increases and live you life. It’s none of their concern what you do as long as you fulfill your duties.
Your job isn’t deserving of any ethical consideration. If your performance at either doesn’t suffer, work both if you want. You don’t owe an employer anything but a job being completed.
It’s news to me that salary jobs have this “40 hour” work week. I’ve never worked a salary job where time was specified. In fact, it was results driven. This is why salary was invented. It’s not unethical at all if you’re meeting expectations, which I always get good performance reviews.
It’s not unethical if you can get both jobs done well. LOL the Ramsey staff is always out of touch when it comes to this.
Are these letters for real? 😂😂 So he should deliver pizzas at night instead. Gotcha! 😂😂
I worked for Securitas and USA Security Associates both Security guard companies. I worked Black Friday for both companies at the same Wal-Mart for 12 hours. I had no issue with it being ethical.
I just got my SORA license. So u are telling me u got paid by two different companies for working at the same place at one time.
Lol nice
You mastered the art of finessing. I got nothing but respect for you!
Why wouldnt it be to work 2 jobs. As long as your not commiting time card fraud its all good
That’s the moral issue there. If company is paying you to work 8am-4pm
It becomes unethical to working a different job on those hours.
(That’s if the job is “time based” if it’s assignment based, that’s different)
I completely disagree with the host when they said about working two jobs on different hours.
For me, there is absolutely no problem working two jobs at different hours in the day
@@brianyaeger8209 yeah but we are talking specifically about remote work here. More often than not, you’re not paid by your time but rather your output.
It's funny they found it unethical and cheating. Today, I was asked in my fully remote job to cover someone who is on a medical leave without date of return, I wasn't offered an incentive, a raise, a bonus or NOTHING, isn't that unethical from the companies to do that to employees? I was never rold I have to do my job responsibilities and cover others while they are out. How many companies out there make employees to do the job of 2-3 employees and just pay one salary? This is the only thing I don't like about thr Ramseys their hate for work from home people.
Is/was it ethical for colleges and universities to dupe ppl inti thousands of dollars of debt before they truly understand what they are getting themselves into?
Blame government spending. If it wasn't guaranteed (with fiat currency), then banks would be a backstop and students would think about ROI.
And there lies in the common issue conservative Americans have. They never see a problem with corporations and institutions being immoral or unethical.
I have two engineering jobs. One is remote and the other is not. They both know about each other and I have an office set up for the remote at the other’s physical office. It is a lot of work, but everyone is happy.
Do it. Just don't let your employer realize it. That's the key to success. Build up a business while working at your career
If you can work 2+ jobs without any suffering in performance, then do your thing because these days you need 2+ jobs to afford rice and beans.
Lame af for calling this unethical as if all these giant corporations even have an ounce of ethics.
Do what works best for you. Who gets to decide what is "unethical". Keep working and get yourself out of debt and get ahead. I'm proud of anyone who is doing what they have to do to achieve a certain goal. YOU GOT THIS!
Adults don't need permission to do what they want to do in their life.😂😂😂 I've been trying to deal with Ken stupid azz but enough is enough.
Ken is the worse one out of all of them
@@Youdontneedtoknowmyname3-iu1vk I can tell....🤣
Polygamy is legal in some states. 😊
If someone can work both and perform, get on it, dude!
@@wordsalad01 only if you get a marriage license. When divorce rolls around, the state won't care if you have money to pay.
Aren't they the ones who say the callers need to get 2 or 3 extra jobs to pay off their debt as fast as they can?
It's perfectly fine if you can perform both jobs as required by each employer.
Ken Colman show is 🗑
It’s not unethical or illegal, this is hilarious
How is ethics associated to withholding information from companies that only provides awareness and does no harm, especially if the companies aren’t competing (assuming they aren’t)?
I would say that even if they were competing, it’s still fine. For example, who cares if you work at McDonalds AND Burger King? The only way I would say that it makes a difference if they’re competing is if it’s actually written in their employee contract.
For companies that are worried about employees having side hustles... the side hustle(s) is the main gig and the company is the side hustle.
My daughter paid off her student loan during the Covid scare. She was not a deadbeat. My son kept paying on his too. Again, not a deadbeat.
If Dennis from Washington is scrolling through the comments, don’t listen to these two idiots. You’re employer probably wouldn’t think twice of terminating you without notice to increase their profits. Don’t be loyal or “faithful” to companies that would never be loyal or faithful with you.
2 other tips: never sign non competes and always apply to jobs even if you already have one (or 2 😉). If they find out and fire you for working 2 jobs, you’ll have several job offers ready for you to accept and keep it moving. 😎
As a small business owner, I have to respectfully disagree with you guys today. To me there is nothing unethical about someone who is willing to hustle and work 2 jobs. I have 0 problems with that as long as my work is getting completed. If anything, it reinforced my decision to hire them BECAUSE they are hard workers!!!
If you’re paying someone for 8 hours, you would expect them to be working on your tasks, not on a task for someone else. You would expect them to be at your work meetings, and not have to reschedule because they have a meeting with someone else. There are conflicts that the speakers did not even go into. I know people who have worked two full time jobs at the same time. It’s unethical, and there will be guaranteed conflicts. From missed meeting, to tasks being delivered late. This is not the same as freelancing.
leave it to Dave Ramsey staff calling having two jobs "unethical"
@sondrad8163 It sounds like you’re describing an hourly job not a salaried results driven job.
@@dete503 salary is based on time and productivity. It is assumed you are being paid for a 40 hour work week. Freelance is results only. The fact that people can’t share that they are working another job simultaneously with their employer is dishonest. You can not effectively serve two masters.
I dont respectfully disagree and I agree that these two are moe rons.
I really to want to hear Deloney, Coleman, or anyone from the Ramsey staff respond to this video. Judging from the comments, it seems like NO ONE agrees with them on this one! 😅
These two will say whatever Ramsey and his team tells them to say.
When you work remote, companies may pay you full time but most do NOT expect you to work 8 hrs. They expect your work to be done. If this is the case for these companies, it is not unethical at all.
If they expect you to work 8 hours, then working on something else during the other’s company’s work time would he unethical. Very simple 🤷🏽♂️
Ken just saying this for the sake of Dave, who seems like a strict boss that pry's into his worker's personal business
Nah keep the same energy as Dave. Beans and rice! Get 2 or 3 jobs! WORK like no one else 🤣. It won’t be your whole life. It’s completely ethical.
As long as you're not working on one job on another's time.
The only "unethical" part of this is the fact you can work two 100k a year jobs at the same time... Goes to show how easy remote jobs are. Many people are breaking their back to make 60k a year at an in person job.
This "study" that John is talking, is BS.
I don't believe it's unethical as long as there are no noticeable drops in performance. I know of situations where the full time job does not cover the bills and an easy part time job that's done asynchronously can cover the difference. If the primary job can't pay enough to cover living expenses, they need to expect that the employee will seek additional or other employment.
I say even if it's drop due to that or any other reason upper management should fire those people's it's not that hard
Ask Dave what all of his employees make so they can compare. When he objects tell him that “Withholding information is unethical”
I have to disagree. There is nothing unethical about working two jobs. If you’re work performance is the same for both companies, then why does it matter. People have been working multiple jobs since the beginning of time to make ends meet. The only way I can see this being problematic is if you’re someone in a higher level position with access to certain confidential company information working for a direct competitor. However, this is not the case for the average worker. If you think working multiple jobs is unethical, then direct that same energy toward the companies that aren’t paying
living wages.
their advice is BS, they just don’t want you to double your income.
Incorrect. You must be new here.
@@amireallythatgrumpy6508 You are gonna get a sugar high from drinking so much Koolaid...
@@tstanley01 I don't drink any Kool aid. It's made in America and therefore tastes like crap.
No more unethical than government employees getting pensions, and lifetime healthcare. If you can work both and not get fired, you are all good!
Got a new job that pays well, but my boss today basically said we should be working more than 40 hrs a week bc that’s the nature of the job. What? Ok. So, I am an exempt salaried employee and get no overtime, but you are expecting I give more time…nope.
"Ethics" is a nebulous concept. They are not really defined, like rules and laws. There are several different ethical theories. There's no right or wrong answer to most "ethical dilemmas." If your companies don't require you to notify them or ask then it's fine. I'm curious if either of these guys have actually taken a business ethics class.
ethics is only nebulous if you are.
It’s clearly ethical to work two jobs. People complicate things
Since raising kids is a full time job, I guess I'll need to ask my employer for permission before having any. I wouldn't want to upset Ken by doing something unethical.
In all seriousness, there's nothing wrong with working two jobs that have separate working hours, and you have no obligation to notify anyone if the companies aren't operating in the same industry. Working two jobs during the same hours with competing companies is obviously unethical, but my boss doesn't get to prevent me from delivering pizzas or driving for Uber outside of his business hours.
Wth??? Unethical?? 😅😅 its literally the only way to get by in America, if you are middleclass
Screw ethics. The company doesn't care about you. Make the most amount of money doing the least amount possible to not get fired. Play them like they play you
I disagree. You absolutely have no ethical obligation to tell them. If you are getting the work done your only ethical obligation is to not lie if asked about it.
Some people physically go to work at two or three jobs, so there is nothing wrong with this. Get with the future of work, guys!😂
I say work both and keep your business to yourself. If you can make life easier for yourself by working harder, why wouldn't you...
Is he hurting anyone? Is he finishing his work? Are the employers satisfied with his work? If the answer is yes, yes, and yes then nothing is unethical. What's unethical is someone has to work two jobs to survive.
I'm of the mind that if the customer is happy with your service, you have served the customer. This doesn't need to limit your number of customers.
DON’T LISTEN to these clowns. Why should a company be able to dictate your work hours? If he wants to work 8 hours for one company and 8 hours for the other, then that’s up to him. As long as he’s getting this work done who cares?!
Each company doesn’t need to know about this.
Who dictates that someone can only work 8 hours a day for one company??!!
That’s how you get ahead. Don’t listen to these people.
As long as you can competently complete the job, work both, especially if it's at different hours. No job has need to know you're working a second unless there's a schedule conflict.
Your company doesn't care about you. Get that paper!
Keep a primary job that you defend at any cost, do not risk it
For 2nd, 3rd, 4th jobs be increasingly demanding.
Demand more pay, better hours, more flexibility, fewer meetings, etc
You have the power because you don't care. You get the job do it well, but otherwise peace out.
Completely ethical. People have worked multiple jobs for decades. As long as there isn't a conflict of interest between the two and you're able to fulfill your responsibilities to both then there's no problem.
This idea of making your employers aware of the each other is irrelevant. Your not beholden to your employer beyond your hours of work.
As a salaried employee, you get paid for the work that you do, not the time that you work. Our job offers/contracts do not require us to disclose other forms of incomes. It’s not unethical, it’s just a new concept to many.
I have two full time jobs and drive for UberEats and Doordash. This allowed me to pay of my debt. I'm now living debt free and loving life. I now get to save up to buy my dream car with cash and still be debt free! My car is only 35% of my annual income too. I work jobs that are fully remote and let A.I. (Artifical Intelligence) software do most of my work. I drive Doordash and UberEats at least 50 hours a week at the same time. I'm getting my work done the way my employer want it. Yes they know about my situation and they don't mind. If you can get two or more jobs then do it!
Cuz corporations are sooooooo ethical?! I say screw’em!
I was thinkin'
Hold my beer
I'm not racist, but...
You got guys doing multiple hard labor jobs... yet working remote is unethical. Makes no sense
My employer had a “primary” clause. You can have another job or side gigs as long as it doesn’t interfere with your primary job. We don’t really have remote work though so it’s harder to do the remote job overlap.
Totally disagree! First of all, I commend the young man for even having the mindset to want to pay down his student loan debt. Secondly, given the fact that people often work multiple jobs, I don’t see how this is that much different. Working two remote jobs should be totally fine, as long as there is not a conflict of interest, and as long as he performs well for both companies.
How is this unethical? Is it written in the contract? And when Dave Ramsey and your team recommends working Uber or delivering pizza, is that unethical? The employer does not own the employee. As long as the employee is fully present for both positions, then it’s no one’s business. For some reason this “advice” really bothers me. I’ve never disagreed more.
Their conclusions are completely hypocritical. There is another video in this series where Dave Ramsey tells a caller that is in deep debt to, "Work like a maniac at the best possible paying side hustle."
A "side hustle" is just a trendy name with for a second job(s). I'm not sure why driving for Uber or Lyft or waiting tables would be ok but a second remote job with a complete full salary and benefits is no good and terribly unethical. It just shows that these people are deeply prejudiced against anyone working from home because they think that somehow that's "cheating."
If you aren’t violating agreed to terms of employment then there is absolutely nothing unethical about it.
Professional cheating? Unless you have agreed not to work anywhere else, an employer has no right to expect that you will not do so.
I dont want to hear a word about "ethics" regarding corporations
Totally not ethical: Using your best skills to command the highest wage from second employer.
Totally ethical: Delivering pizza for Dominoes for minimum wage at night and working as a janitor on the weekends.
Yet these companies don’t want to pay people a livable wage! That’s immoral! People shouldn’t have to work two jobs to live. Simply pay EVERYONE a livable wage.
ridiculous. Caller should do what's best for him and his financial future. If you can do both jobs without performance hindrance then do it. You owe the companies nothing.
What you do is ask the second job if it’s ok, if they say yes you ask the first job If it’s ok, and they say no then you take the Second job
I work two jobs and both employees know it! Neither have an issue and both are flexible with my schedule. I want to retire comfy and determined to do so.
Most larger companies have an outside employment policy where you are required to clear conflicts of interest. So if you're working two jobs without disclosure you're exposing yourself to termination.
Exposing yourself to law suits as well. They will sue u for the $ they paid u
@@9770G I have it in my company handbook.
Okay so you’re saying that is unethical only if your company said it is unethical?
@@ecthelion205 When you go to work for 1 company you agree to follow their rules and policies. Failure to do so may result in termination. Get hurt at one job and explain it to your 2nd job. Keep in mind there is a workers comp data base......Saying you were injured playing sports is unethical. Being honest is part of being an adult.
@@alinatamashevich3354 not sure where you were going with this. All those things I think I agree with.
But my question; is something unethical only because a certain company says it? It’s a first principles question.
It’s not any more unethical than you guys working extra money delivering pizza and door dash. Did you tell the other jobs that you are doing that. If you are servicing the same type of industry then there is an ethical decision but if the companies are in different fields there is no ethics involved.
The hell what they talking keep doing both. Ramsey folks got their opinion that dont make it right. You dont owe these jobs nothing who would replace you at the drop of a dime.
The jobs don't need to know about it unless there is some overlap. I know these guys don't expect people with a regular 9-5 and do UBER eats or a night warehouse job to tell their main job about it because that doesn't make sense. But so many people have a problem with it once it's two "high-paying jobs." I wouldn't do it because the stress would probably kill me, but I don't see an issue.
Yeah cause the company cares about them... This is dumb
Dude on the right couldnt actually justify his perspective with anything more substantial than "thats just how i feel". Dudes a bootlicker.
If it’s salaried, not hourly, and all expectations are met, it’s not unethical.
All jobs are hourly. Even salaried jobs have an hourly expectation.
Jesus Christ, Coleman… What did you smoke this morning?
Is it ethical when corporations lay off employees… no, so just do whatever benefits you the most because that’s exactly what corporations will do.
The only unethical aspect of it is working for company A while being paid by company B. If you do one in the morning and one at night there is no ethics concerns. It’s none of their business. Only exception is if your employer requires notification such as a public employee.