2 of them are the best mind readers in the xmen universe. He can think fast but he would still have to plan out their moves and react to what they are doing. Most of the speed character a very cocky and arrogant and that is usually what does them in. Dont forget they are omega level mutants for a reason both can change the persons perception of event or even freezing them shown by professor x. Id agree with you on the on the avengers though. Though didnt watch the apocalypse movie so i dont know if he had the power to absorb others powers in it but if the included it or not. Mind powers are so over powered they would explain a lot of this
great to see people comment on superspeed. you nailed all the problems with the depiction or understanding of superspeed. one of the funniest observations to make, and you'll find some youtube parody vids, when travelling at 'superspeed' and thus slowing down time for their perceptions, they are moving in 'normal speed', ergo if a superspeedster had to run a great distance like across a continent, they would literally, in their time frame 'be running' for a REALLY REALLY long time... as long as it would take a normal person to run a continent. ofcourse the solution is that speedsters are able to increase and decrease their perceptive superspeed like a throttle. so when they do finer work they throttle up, and when more mundane straight runs, they throttle down. Anyway, yeah, superspeed is the most powerful superhero ability.... which few, even comic book writers, can comprehend. Would be nice if someday, a good nerd writer would do it justice.
They would, you just need to introduce characters that have like, insane durability so the speedster can't one shot em, stuff like conceptual manipulation, time manipulation, plot manipulation and the likes of those absurdly op abilities
One way to beat a speedster : you spread in the air a product that is lethal but only later (a slow chemical reaction or a virus whatever). The speedster won't see you coming, will breath it and die later.
Almost. If a speedster stayed consistent the write would have to do WAY more work. Quicksilver is the first or The Flash have elements of what they need, a limit. The limit for Quicksilver is him getting tired: use this to make him have to save too many people or something , anything that would result in him not being able to not lose any situation and have to pick and choose between saving people and or beating every threat. The Flash has a similar but different limit: He has to refill his tank, he's not shown eating nearly enough in later seasons, he should also be eating Goku big meal quantities EVERY meal after a MAJOR fight and even more so after injuries. This all stuff is everyday non-writers thought of. Writers just need to write better sense or stop writing speedsters because we either see them get nerfed or lose to trash logic. The Mr Freeze guy in flash is among the stupidest things i've had the misfortune to witness.
Fox is stupid and never really cared enough about the characters to get their abilities right, just close enough to get film in a can and on a screen so they got paid.
Can't say I agree w/ stupid ways in the Xmen movies. He got stopped by Apocalypse and Phoenix in the Xmen movies... Those 2 situations would completely pan out. In MCU he got killed by a machine gun.
They're all powerful or weak as the plot requires. Look at Bucky in his movie vs every other movie he's in. Wanda Maximoff is a god compared to any other witch yet Agatha Harkness had the upper hand until the TV series was almost over. Spiderman is always super strong yet Vulture bullied him in Homecoming when he wasn't wearing his super suit.
I think Wally West was written incredibly well in Young Justice. Big part of that is getting rid of the Speed Force bc it’s literally a cheap way to do random bullshit go
@ain3sh yeah would be cool to have a speedster who cannot just go super fast all the time because of the consequences it would have for the environment like constantly breaking sound barrier
yeah like honestly the "time in a bottle" scene as the viewer watches it is basically as it's written from the perspective of quicksilver. that's how overpoweringly fast he is
I was just thinking about over powered supercharacters the other day. One another who went ridiculously powerful with just some little training is Doctor Strange.
@@magnuskallas If you remember though dr strange is basically a genius. Not as Smart as Bruce or Stark but he is up there. Plus he got control over the time stone fairly early. If he used the time stone to pause time couldn't Strange have been training for a very long time but to everyone else basically no time had passed? That is what I assumed happed. Plus he was being trained by someone who had already mastered the mystical arts. unlike other hero's who had to figure out there powers/abilities on there own.
@@tjsmead1844 I had to check it again, and while you make sense, Dr Strange was the character that introduced "magic" to Marvel, to create a new market next to genetic mishaps, hi-tec, and yes, aliens. It still kind of proves the point that he has always been the odd one.
Is unreactable a word?? Doesn't seem like it. What does it mean?? Slowsilver is fodder compared to Comic Flash and is far slower than even his own comic counterparts. Moving slow enough to perceive everything in slow motion is also below light speed. Many characters can go Faster than Light which in of itself isn't very impressive considering the higher tiers above Infinite Speed such as Inaccessible, Immeasurable and Irrelevant.
@@blackirontarkus3156 Until he basically ended molecule man maybe, but molecule man is multi dimensional level and plot device man had no problem disintegrating him,
Speedsters fundamentally don't make sense in our physical reality. At even the lower end of these speeds air would be swmming in molassis and inertia would completely overwhelm traction to the ground making it impossible to stop or turn. Also deafening sonic booms any time you move. Anyone you move would be ripped apart to chunks and have all their organs liquefied - even if you could somehow survive it. At the higher ends like Flash it becomes even stupider with just the movement itself causing massive, potentially planet-ending explosions. Approaching relativistic speeds almost anything could happen. But yea - superspeed with equal level of thinking/reactions even at a very low level would be hard to beat with most other powers - and it necessarily has to include many other powers like super-strength, super-durability and flight to make any sort of sense. At that point you are essentially Superman. The closest we can come to experience something like this is probably in the VR game "super hot". Very highly recommended if you have the gear to play it. It demonstrates just how ridiculously OP even highly limited superspeed is.
The flash they use the speed force as their catchall excuse for why it works. When running fast from the speed force it doesn't impact the world around them etc. The problem for DC is then, explain superman and why him traveling at those speeds doesn't wreck everything.
Most speedsters don't use physical prowess to move fast. They can alter time in some way like shift their own relative time compared to everything else. How personal time dilation like that interacts in an atmosphere, no one knows but its comics. If Superman tries to catch up to the Flash, Supes would cause a sonic boom yet Flash won't and he can still speed up.
You should make a video about how sonic went from perceiving time in slow-motion in the first sonic movie to barely being able to run faster then a car in the second movie
@@yesbutcooler Yeah... what about it? Don't see what that has to do with mentioning him having trouble running on water in the second movie like it was some change when it wasn't because he had the same problem in the first movie.... literally, the same movie with the bar scene in question. So there was no point in even bringing up the second movie to illustrate your point. So your point is stronger when considering he had that same problem in the same movie.
I agree with almost everything in this video, I want to just point out a few things. 1:45 water jet cutters add an abrasive material in the water to allow them to cut through things like glass and metal, but even without it just water at that speed could cut fingers. 3:00 Apocalypse was shown to copy other powers when they are being used against him, like how he used telepathy only when Xavier was using it near him, so when the camera zooms in on his eyes and they start moving very fast is when he started copying Quicksilver's super speed. You could say he shouldn't be able to do that because it happened in too short an amount of time for him to think, but maybe his power copying ability activates automatically. But you're right, Quicksilver should have been able to break that sand. 5:36 you could argue that even this shouldn't happen, since from his perspective the hammer is moving very slowly, so when he grabs it, he would notice that he can't move it and that the hammer is slowly pulling him backwards, so he would just let go.
See this I can understand better. his eyes go silver he adopts qicksilver speed, this allowed him to see and trap him. but they seem to link his silvered eyes to the ground change so...writers...
I'm a little fuzzy on how the movies portrayed Apocalypse, but I believe he was considered an immortal entity that could transfer from body to body and retain all the abilities from previous hosts. He's literally being written as a god. I may be incorrect in my understanding of the situation, but as long as he goes one on one, no one is getting the better of him.
@@legion5463 Correct, very few would be able to take him 1 on 1. Phoenix could, but not really anyone else in the Avengers or Xmen movies... Scarlet Witch would give him a lot of trouble. And Magneto technically could if they had him go absolutely rageful like he did in Age of Apocalypse comics. But Magneto in his normal mentality wouldn't be able to destroy Apocalypse...
This is still a stupid argument. If QS can move at the 6000 the speed of sound, you won't see him. Even if Apo's power react automatically, it is still not enough time for him to be able to copy QS's super speed. Plus how fast must the sand move to be able to trap QS, that means the sand built up faster than QS moves. For me, no matter how you argue it, it is still not really acceptable.
It all comes down to superhero stories revolving around "what looks cool". It's the same reason starships fly like airplanes, alien women are always hot, and explosions always make that big orange gasoline fireball no matter what kind of explosive is used. You can't expect much else from a medium that relies on mass-audience appeal.
I've never seen an aeroplane go from 0 to 55,000 MPS+ in less than a second or fly directly vertical and out into space and then bend space in front of it to travel to other Galaxies. Do you mean that ships fly forward?? Well real life spacecraft do that and it helps them continuously fall back onto the Earth to achieve orbit. Even satellites do that too. They don't fly backwards otherwise that would completely contradict momentum, energy conservation, inertia and basic thermodynamics as things and objects don't move backwards when having force or momentum applied to them unless altered by exotic particles. Like negative mass and movement particles like the theoretical Gravitons.
@@CerealExperimentsMizuki I think they're referring to the fact that a lot of space movies depict space craft doing aerial maneuvers, dodging asteroids, and doing combat generally like what you would've seen WWII planes flying around doing in non space age movies. In reality, even in the most dense regions of the asteroid belt, asteroids are hundreds of thousands of miles apart on average and so no craft would really be dodging anything, and space combat would take place entirely differently because of the vast distances between objects and the speeds they would be traveling. However, having the crew freak out as the craft does barrel rolls to dodge asteroids is more exciting.
only good thing about the boys was showing how insanely overpowered their speedster character is at any given moment. Literally took a random heart attack to beat the a train.
It's convenient. the easiest way to take away a speedsters advantage is to get them off the ground. The writers realised he would basically be stuck in the air and super convenient to kill for Wanda.
@@CursedCapsuleStudiohe didn't ask if he was convenient for the writers to keep them in the air so he couldn't run he asked why Quicksilver fell out of the sky like a goddamn bullet at super speed I didn't know quicksilver could control gravity.
@LittleQ-ko6fl I will have to take the L here because I didn't explain it completely and I went of course with my answer. it's the same thing. Even if he is going to fall, there must be consistency in his movement, or else it is jarring for the audience. The reason he falls in the first place is because of the convenience. I hope this makes what I was trying to say clearer
@@LittleQ-ko6fl I think you give the writers too much credit, but, yes, that's what should have happened, without a foothold, Quicksilver would end up floundering in the air and have to resort to swimming motions and looking really silly.
@RicoTheCEO_ Magneto Fassbender/Mckellen Xavier /Mcaavoy Stewart Quicksilver And Of Course Wolverine The Foxverse is over-hated. They want their colorful X-Men. Watch their annoying 90s series.
Great video, consider looking into Beast Boy, he opened pandora's box too by transforming into alien species, the things he transforms into in some of the comic book canons make him theoretically insanely powerful
Does he have to KNOW about the alien, or can he just think "I need something that can crush an Imperial destroyer", and his power will rummage through the cosmos and find that giant asteroid snake from Empire Strikes Back?
I am not an expert or anything I just fell into a rabbit hole one day, but I think he has to know about the entity, it wasn't just aliens either, iirc in one of the comics he turns into a Phoenix, which could open the door for Mythological beasts too
Physics completely falls apart for speedsters unless you invent additional magic powers. For example, gravity alone makes it impossible for quicksilver to propel himself at that speed, so either gravity becomes insanely more powerful for him alone, or he can actually direct his body in any direction at will, not requiring him to actually push off of the ground. The first step at that speed would launch him into orbit
3:06 Did you not see him gaining enhanced perception in that scene or just missed it? When your eyes track or focus on something your pupils & irises contracts his did so dramatically trying to gain a new power
Nah fr like idk if he actually gained super speed but it was clearly trying to infer him adjusting and having super speed perception same with Jean grey that moment was to show how powerful she was that a guy who is that quick can’t even catch her off guard I do still think the rock boot was a dumb way to trap him they definitely should’ve came up with something more creative and consistent or just him knocking his lights out like super man slowly figuring out the flash’s patterns and needing just one good hit to take him out
@@yeahok6240 To that, I would think that Apocalypse would just actively keep him locked in the sand as QS tried to free himself. Still doesn't explain how he moved the sand faster than QS could move, but idk how that power works.
6:11 Even if he had not seen the bullet coming, approaching from a blind spot, his reaction speed is such that at the moment of contact, he could move out of its way.
I am not going to truly defend the Quicksilver/Jean Grey fight, but I will suggest a plausible reason. She has the Phoenix Force in her amping her abilities. So the moment Quicksilver thinks "I'll run at her from here" she knows his intention and removes the stepping stone debris. She's not reacting to him mid-run, she's reacting to before he even moved. It just LOOKS like she is reacting to him running.
I mean, they both have super powers too. Why can't she be allowed to have her powers be faster than her own running speed or have her powers artificially amplify her speed?
@@Anonymice That's why he points out the speed of his perception. Her powers can do a lot of things, amplifying her speed of perception/reaction is not part of it as it is for him. If it were, she would be quite literally unbeatable as her brute force telekenesis/telekenetic powers are already so absurdly powerful if her perception and reaction were to the level of picoseconds like a speedster is shown to be there's zero counter. Period. She would simply appear omnipotent and end every fight before they have a chance to realize they are IN a fight which is not shown anywhere else so obviously not true.
@@thatrandomguyo1 I don't think you realize just how powerful phoenix is. She's one of those mutants that's essentially so powerful she's borderline goddess. Kind of like Onslaught. Theres not really a force equal to her in the current x-men cinematic universe, granted Charles come's the closest.
Firstly speedsters can't coexist with normal environment scientifically Because if there is something moving faster than speed of sound there will be production of SONIC BOOM which will destroy it's surroundings.
They don’t freeze time they think at super speed and therefore time to them is considerably slower. If they aren’t able to react and think at super speed they won’t be able to turn or stop at all
Just make a movie where everyone involved in the plot is a speedster, including the bad guys. It worked well for the flash I'm the first seasons, despite, of course, the horrendous writing whenever non speedsters were involved
Option 3: If they do freeze/slow time, they also freeze/slow all photons and molecular movement of foreign objects. Their vision goes completely/nearly black while stationary, and they can only see the photons that are in the direct path of their eyeballs as they run and collide with said photons (meaning severe tunnel vision). Their surroundings feel incredibly cold while stationary (as their own body's molecules are moving significantly faster than their surroundings), and unbearably hot while moving fast (as they're being bombarded with pressure and friction from the air). The faster they move, the more detrimental forces they experience. Thus a natural limit is created as to how quickly they can move if they want to remain living.
I mean, this dude can SPEED UP even while in slow motion. And the Apocalypse can see him in slow motion? It's some kind of quantum teleportation sh*t happening in his brain.
They had access to use him for as long as they wanted. They just couldn't call him Quicksilver, just like they couldn't call Wanda the Scarlet Witch. I think they just didn't want to deal with having a speedster (not to mention that he served as a way to raise the stakes by having a hero die without losing one of the main cast). Even after acquiring Fox, they only brought Quicksilver back as a joke.
This is all from OSP's Red (trope talk: character deaths), but if Quicksilver had survived in the MCU, we may have had him and Wanda fighting in Civil War, he could have fought Thanos and realistically lost since he's slower and weaker than other versions of Quicksilver. If he survived the snap he may have spent his time running around and trying his best to help anywhere he can, broken by the loss of his sister, and then in endgame his twin sister comes back, but suddenly he's older than her. The biggest problem with the MCU Quicksilver's death is not just that the way he dies is dumb, but also that his death stopped any interesting things with him from even happening.
Exactly. If someone was as fast as he’s portrayed with Evan Peters in X Men, who the hell could stop him without some asinine plot convenience or plot hole? Why not have him accomplish everything needing done?
THANK YOU for pointing out how unfathomably stupid it was for the MCU's Quicksilver to die while saving Hawkeye. Ever since Age of Ultron came out, I've been feeling like I was the only one who saw the problem there.
Is that true? It’s been a while since I’ve seen the movie, but didn’t he try to steal Charles body after trying to get HIM to send a message to all humanity? If he could get any superpower he wants, why couldn’t he just get mass telepathy or something Unless, he need Charles to do it with cerebro (idk how to spell it). But if that was the case, he could have given himself a better form of telepathy so he could relay a message to everyone on earth by himself? That’s the problem with the statement “he can give himself any superpower he wants”. He would LITERALLY BE UNKILLABLE if that were the case. If he can do that, he could just give himself super-speed and just kill anyone who tries to stop his plan in ending humanity or whatever? Or give himself, idk, REALITY OR PROBABILITY manipulation, and then turn all his enemies into SPAGHETTI. Assuming he can give himself ”ANY” super power somehow, that ruins the entirety of the story, plot and stakes of the whole movie, since he can whip out some power like, “oh, you look at me, and you turn into atoms” and nobody can do anything against it
Ive said this all along. Imagine getting punches at 8 times the speed of sound, example if a bullet travels 700 mph and weights 7 grams, now a punch weighting in 5lbs traveling at Mach 8. This punch would literally wipe a city and vaporize the point of contact with just the kinetic energy. Assuming his arm is 5 kg: KE =1/2 (5)(2744to the pwer of 2) ≈18.8 × 10 to the power of 10 joules.
His statement about it being able to vaporize a city is flat out wrong. That much joules would equal about 44.93 tons of tnt or city block level. Not city level.@@annunakim525
1:00 you can see the drops of water hitting his clothing. If it was simply he had durability, that would be one thing. Whatever magic he has, it's protecting him and his cloths as well. It has to be some kind of "aura" or something.
@@dattos140 Would that not make him super fragile and therefore anything hitting him at those speeds (including dust and water particles) would totally destroy him?
@@ShadeSlayer1911 I don't know, it's gotta be an aura of light weightness (Kinda like what that other person said), cause otherwise wouldn't his clothes fuck him up too? If it is an aura, then he would also be making the water droplets and shit super light.
Right?! Apocalypse and Jean Grey/Phoenix most certainly can stop Quicksilver in the comics, so I'm not understanding why people have a hard time seeing how that happened in the movies.
Comic book movies are made to appeal to a bigger set of people than only comic book fans. For maximizing profit. But marvel comics has been running for some 1000 years now and we got only about 2 movies with quicksilver. Comic book Movie-watching people don't have the context about why apocalypse and Jean grey are able to defeat a speedster. We all know what speed is. We have context to imagine what a speedster is capable of. But we haven't seen the psychics do anything that can compete with a speedster. We don't have context. Yeah, you might be the most powerful magician, but before you can think about doing something, speedster should have already punched you with supersonic speed. So them defeating speedsters looks unfair.
Because the comics aren't the movies. The characters come from the comics, yes, but there's also like a hundred different iterations of the same character from different comics. Not every hulk is world breaker hulk. Not ever spider man is spidersman (who is just a bunch of spiders pretending to be a man.) Or Spider mam, when peter died and his ant became a super hero instead. So if you make a spider man movie, there's no 1 correct source to draw from. So its easiest to just make a new spider man that'll appeal to a much wider audience, ones that likely didn't read the comics.
1:41 the water jets are not just shooting water, they contain hard minerals like quarts, ruby or even diamond. The water has no where near the cutting power without.
really depends on the PSI, enough pressure and even without abrasive materials it still can cut. and im not talking out my ass here, operated a CNC machine for a couple of years and not all water jets have abrasive material, just high PSI
I agree the water jet wasn't a great example for what he was trying to explain. Water is very imcompressible so quicksilver hitting water while moving beyond the speed of sound should cause an explosion. His initial acceleration beyond the speed of sound should also cause multiple sonic booms which in a confined space should deafen or injure everyone but QS. The physics of any object accelerating as speedsters do is completely broken unless they are shown to obliterate everything around them. Like one of the other comments said, dash in the incredibles is basically the limit before we get into sonic-boom-man who wrecks everything around him.
I've always been confused by whether quicksilver is a fast guy or if his superpower is kinda stopping or slowing down time. Because when he's not running, things are still in slow motion
Would love to see a series, where the main character has superspeed with realistic outcomes (winning every fight, doing everything in superspeed) and being stupidly OP.
His fight against Apocalypse is somewhat believable in the movie universe. since he could have distracted Quicksilver into breaking concentration with the leg hold to make him result in coming out of speed. And him noticing him doesnt mean he was able to fight him at the same speed, just means he could detect him since he does have alot of powers in the movie. His fight with jean only way i could say he lost that is somehow the phoenix force but i def agree that is not believeable. and MCU Quicksilver the shot in the arm he coulding have noticed the bullet but he def could have survived his death scene.
Apocalypse power is to be able to manipulate and control other mutants powers. That's how he took control of Cerebro when Xavier contacted him indirectly and how he empowered his Riders. It's reasonable to asume that he can use that power to limit or perceive Quicksilver powers. Maybe he even can "kick him out of" superspeed.
Quicksilver CAN'T come out of his perception though. He's stuck in it, that's why he has headphones on playing crazy fast music nobody else could listen to ( I don't think that'd even work, physically, but it's clear what they're trying to show) because he's unable to just enjoy himself watching normal media because it'd be agonizingly boring watching a movie for him, since he can't relax that perception. So the idea that he got flustered and caught off guard makes no sense, he'd need to be flustered for like 3 months from his perspective. The thing that's really dumb is there are perfectly logical ways to take out speedsters, like using light based attacks or telepathy or undetectable poisons. The way to kill a speedster isn't aiming a really good shot at where they'll be, it's tricking them into breathing in some nerve gas so they show up and drop dead before you even realize they got there.
@@oldcat1790 Yeah, but the other powers that are used against him are pretty much useless (Mystic is awesome but she can't do any harm) except when he is overpowered. He confronts and even controls Xavier's but clearly when they team up (like five or six mutants against him if I remember right) he can't do much about it.
I Always understood his death as him pushing a car in front of Hawkeye and being caught up in the spreading fire from ultron, and it baffled me because how the hell did he push and flip over a car if he doesn't have super strength
@@ellpee775 E=Mc^2 is Only correct For objects That are Moving slowly Relative the Observer. E^2 = M^2c^4 +p^2c^2 For relativistic Mass, its M(rel) = m/sqrt(1-(v/c)^2)
@@ellpee775yeah, but it’s not like Captain America or Thor’s bro barley has enough durability to run though the ultron drones and was shown getting tired overtime, even if he could why would he push a car towards them instead of just grabbing out the line of fire?
Many moons ago when Quicksilver first appeared in comics, he was as fast as mach 10 (according to google) which is 10 times the speed of sound an nowhere near the speed of light. That being said, I remember reading him being only as fast as twice the speed of sound in comic such as The Amazing Spiderman, I think.
Things have changed and now he is able to reach light speed . Which does not make sense because he doesn't have anything like the Speedforce to bend physics
@@nelsonisc9670 it's not about the speed coming from speedforce but the physics bending- i.e magical protection that breaks the rules of physics. you know Newtons laws right. and that power = mass times acceleration? just imagine that he touches something at superspeed. if he's not like i can take 1000 nukes to the face durable he'd lose an arm each time he touches something. or wouldnt even touch anything because the air friction alone would burn it off anyway. - speedforce is just the magic way to skip that because it surrounds him while he runs and makes him kinda skip those parts.
@Extra_Onions Being a speedster alone defies physics so it's not a stretch to say why guys with no speedforce excuse to rely on doesn't insta nuke the planet when they run is because their power work in a way it prevents such from happening Being a speedster also comes with their logics
@@nelsonisc9670 you didn't understand what i was trying to say, Quicksilver can reach light speed but how come he doesn't cause destruction to his surroundings? that's the thing am talking about even tho I absolutely do not care about physics accuracy and logic in comicbook media but previousstly Quicksilver himself stated that he can cause Earthquakes but now they have forgotten that
what a lot of people seem to forget is that Super speed Perception =/= omnicience, he can react to things he can percieve, meaning that if he's not expecting something to happen, like for instance the ground moving to trap one of his legs while he's focusing on the main badguy and running at super speed, he's probbly not gonna be able to react to it in time and before people say "what about pherifieral vision" the dude is wearing goggles so his vision is obviously limited by that, not to mention the fact that QS in the clip he showed was being arrogant, he litteraly sped up to the guy, laughed and then started punching him, in his mind he was that fast, that no one could react to him, and was probbly subconsiously considering this guy a non threat And on top of everything else, Apocalypse as potrayed in the XMMCU was the FIRST mutant, he has hundreds if not THOUSANDS of powers, not all of them are going to be as imeditatly useful as partical manipulation, if you notice QS gets quite a few punches in before Poccys eyes start twiching, that's his mind preforming thousands of calculations a second to relize whats going on, track how fast this guy was going, and predict where was the most optimum time to push his powers to stop him the dude was litteraly re-aranging enough matter to build a prymid the size of the ones in egypt in SECONDS, is it really that far of a streach to believe he could manipulate enough matter in a couple pico seconds to trap a speederst leg ------ As for the jene grey/Pheonix scene, Speed reading thoughts, having entrie convisations is mere seconds are like....rudementry level powers for psysics in the X-men universe, jene grey was matching and surpassing Proff-X at the age of like 10, without any of the knowlage nessessary to really control that extradonary level of power, she was floating an entire culdasack worth of cars because she was scared with just brute force psysic power, she was then trained by the second most powerfull psysic in the world over the next decade to be able to be so precised with her control that she can fit a thread though a needle (she was able to hold back Cylops ocular lazers without breaking a sweat while kissing him, you know those things that TRAVEL AT OR ATLEAST NEAR LIGHT SPEED), she was then empowerd by an acient cosmic entity that multiplied her powers ten fold reading quicksilvers mind in the pico second transition from him thinking "oke she's floating in the air, i gotta run up this debris and punch her" to him actualy doing it and not only formulating a counter plan but enacting it, would be childs play
You don't understand that even if we take the lowest estimate Quicksilver's punches should have blown huge holes in Apocalypse. And no, Jean Grey can't react to him, she did not demonstrate such abilities in subsequent fights
This is a perfect example of what the writing community calls the “Pandoras Box Paradox” as in, you establish a character has a certain use with a power, or something within the context of your story is possible, which completely changes how everything works simply because of that one thing. And now in order to not be bullshit, you have to write AROUND that thing. Because if you don’t…. This video happens. (I’ve unfortunately written a few pandoras boxes in my stuff and I’m trying to remedy them before I move on to actually releasing the story so this was a partial rant of my own personal experience :/)
@ indeed. And my stupid self forgot that I allowed a character to use physics based “magic” to bend spacetime so he can fly, and then continued to write other characters using the same magic and them never flying
Waterjets also use an abrasive, kinda like sand, to cut through things. So it's not just water doing the cutting. I think you're not wrong about the water drops having less than expected impact on him at that kinda speed, though. What is most off in that scene, to me, is him moving people around without ripping their limbs off.
The bullets too. The reason you can't catch a bullet or slap it out of the way isn't because you're not fast enough. Quicksilver is fast enough, but if he slapped a bullet his hand would just get ripped to shreds.
@@biteyalmighty7874 Slap it, yeah, at that speed, though obviously the water doesn't punch holes in him either. But if you can move as fast as the bullet you can just slow it down. It's not like it's heavy. Only its speed makes it so destructive.
@@brei2670 That's my point though. We can see that momentum / kinetic energy is conserved throughout his ability (Like making the guy punch himself.) If that's true, those bullets have so much force behind them that even gently touching them would rip your skin apart. He literally wouldn't be able to change their direction (Let alone blatantly move them around like marbles the way he does in the scene) because, like you said, their speed is what makes them so destructive and their speed is conserved while he's moving around. Also, the water SHOULD be punching holes in him. Look how his cheeks are flopping around. If the still air around him affects him so dramatically, those water drops would SHRED him, rip his clothes, and shatter those goggles.
MCU Quicksilver's death DOES make sense. - Bullets are tiny. If you're speeding around a battlefield, even with sped up perception, bullets are SO small, it would be extremely difficult to spot them, especially when they're flying all over the place and moving at a pretty steady pace. We as the audience have the benefit of the camera angles being made for us to see important details, so I think people take for granted that the character would not be able to detect every bullet from every angle as easily as we're shown them. - When we gets the Hawkeye, the bullets are already baring down on him. I imagine, as he's running up to Hawkeye, those bullets are probably seconds (in Quicksilver's time) from hitting Hawkeye, and he doesn't have time to think about it or maneuver around every single one, he knows as he's approaching that its either let Hawkeye die or sacrifice himself to save him. I feel like every scene with Quicksilver sets us up for this making sense, we're shown that he gets distracted and doesn't see every detail (he doesn't notice the floor shatter beneath him when the bullet breaks the glass in the Avengers HQ), he can get tired and can't use his powers if he's out of breath, etc.
I agree with this. MCU's Quicksilver seems to be less powerful than X-men's, and there's so much happening that battlefield that he probably did not notice all the bullets (or couldn't avoid them while saving Hawkeye).
I agree that it makes sense for Quicksilver to be able to die that way, but I don't think the movie did a good job of framing this at all in that death scene. He is definitely too far away from Hawkeye to have just moved him. It would have made far more sense for him to be at least partially behind the car with Hawkeye and the kid, but still be riddled with bullets because his speed and timing was only just enough to keep them ahead of the bullets but not himself, or, at the very least, have Hawkeye and the kid fall behind the car to signify that Quicksilver only had time to push them and not enough to grab and relocate them so that him still being some distance away makes sense.
The problem with the waterjet thing is it's not just water. The water is the medium and it carries an abrasive that does the cutting. I didn't know that for a long time.
I think its a fair restriction that speedster durability only applies to the physical and relativistic effects of going superspeed, and impacts on your body are capped by how hard they would hit on normal speed (and are not 0). Running into a wall still hurts quite a bit, but the same as it hurts everyone. Doesn't really make it any less op though
The one vs Apocalypse made sense to me. Looked like he got surprised and "turned off" his speed mode beause of the surprise. He also looked like he was constantly switching gears to punch Apocalypes around. He lost cause he was cocky. The one with Jean Gray is strange. I remembet Martian Man Hunter once said he couldn't read Flash's mind when he thinks at super speed.
Yes, and MMH is known to actually HAVE super-speed. Not at Flash' level, but somewhere in the range of Superman, Shazam and Wonder Woman. Jean Grey has never, to my knowledge, in any incarnation been said to have 'super-speed'. Oh well, it was a crap movie for other reasons worse than this one.
No it makes no sense for him to be "surprised" by that. He was moving and thinking in super speed the moment Apocalypse tried to bind his legs with dirt, from Quicksilver's perspective that dirt would have been moving so slowly it may as well be not moving at all. You can't even surprise Quicksilver with a bullet fired from a gun, how the fᴜck would he be surprised by slow moving dirt?
@@ProjectILT Its because he was shifting gears. If he didn't adjust his speed up and down, he would wait forever between each punch before Apocalypse flew to his new location for a follow up punch. When he was running around, he was not at full gear speed the same as he was outrunning an explosion. His super speed is not either on or off settings only. There seems to be adjustable nuance to it.
Surprise effect aside, he was moving probably around the speed of sound. No dirt would be able to withstand such speed, even more so since later the Beast could break it easily. Writers are bad physicists.
@@ixiahj That just begs the question of, "Why does he have to wait for Apocalypse to fly to some distance before he hits him again?" It would make far more sense to just keep hitting him again and again and again and again ... all at one spot, each time delivering ridiculous kinetic energy. All in a milisecond.
The villains in the comics demolish quicksilver in the movies, but that’s not fair. You have to compare quicksilver in the movies to the villains in the movies because, as has been shown time and time again, everyone is SIGNIFICANTLY weaker
@@ravioliman4319 it's hard to showcase what the villain can do in movies because their powerset is so vast, him being able to adapt to quicksilver's speed and predict his movements isn't surprising
The comics industry suffers from extreme power creep. As someone who collected comics in the 70s, 80s, and early 90s, I don't even recognize my favorite characters anymore.
love how you grossly misquote a guy at 4:17, who said "I think of it less as Jean having super speed, and more of an "oh wow any neurological phenomena really is at her disposal, that's crazy" and said that the guy said she had super-speed. The heck? Yeah, she can subconsciously sense neurological phenomena - that's a part of her power. What's more, a huge part of Quicksilver's power is inertia control. He was able to tank the water droplets because he's allowing inertia to work closer to his perception than to real time. He's not super durable. You just aren't acknowledging how his powers work.
Look at her arm in the clip. She’s moving at super speed which makes no sense. She had to do a gesture to control the floating objects. She also has to be able to react to those neurological phenomenons which means she also has to be able to think in super speed.
quicksilver is so underrated, im dissapointed they lost in dumb ways. I really hope they will come back in future movies and show how resourceful and useful they can be. Going super long distances and back to grab something, stopping time and moving things to gain access or help save people etc. endless possibilities.
He’s not “slowing down time” he’s just accelerating his thoughts process. He’s thinking at super speed which makes everything seem slow by comparison. I’m not excusing plot holes, but there are a few things you missed. One, he’s still a “teenage dirtbag” type… he’s never actually seen combat or anything and he’s used to always winning… he basically lives life in god mode so he doesn’t know how to deal with an actual threat. He can think fast, sure… but he can only think of things he knows… if he panics or encounters a situation he’s never been in, he doesn’t even know what to do. Two, he can vary his speed. He typically runs “just fast enough” to not burn too much energy and still do everything he wants. Like the escape scene, being faster than bullets was more than enough and probably only pushed him to a fast jog in effort. The explosion was the equivalent of a hard sprint, it burns through his energy fast hence why he stopped to eat pizza… lol my guess is that he assumed he could walk all over apocalypse and went at him at minimum speed. He wasn’t using his full power at the start because he’s cocky and has never been in an actual combat situation where anyone is a threat to him. Three, speedsters including quicksilver aren’t actually all that durable. They typically have a slight “force field” that protects them from the effects of friction and minor impacts like dust, water drops… etc. in fact, that’s probably what limited his speed in the first sequence because those water drops probably did hurt.. like getting shot with a weak air soft gun. Once you grab a speedster, they’re a bit stronger and more durable than a regular athletic adult. If you have telekinesis and super strength you can absolutely grab them and break a limb. Again, not excusing plot holes… just explaining how it works. Speedsters are some of my favorite comic character types, and I’m a big fan of Flash and I’ve read a decent amount of comics with Quicksilver. Quicksilver is canonically not nearly as fast as Flash but he’s a mutant and doesn’t rely on the speed force. They both have advantages and disadvantages to their powers. Also, Pietro is typically a much darker and more aggressive character willing to fight dirty… Flash (Barry/Wally) are the more classic “Boy Scout” style heroes.
technically I think all speed, momentum and even progress relies on the speed force. It's the force behind momentum itself all things need to move even life and death moves, the speed force is behind all of it so the flash being connected to it directly means all momentum, all life, progress and movement is backing him up. Anyone that moves is only allowed to do so because the speed force exists, the flash can outrun death itself because death still exists under the speed force while the flash exists in the speed force or directly connects to it.
I always interpreted the Marvel Quicksilver death to be that he pushed a car to block Hawkeye from getting shot, but that he was still exposed the whole time.
The water drops do not have any damage on quicksilver due to the fact that he slows the things around him down which makes him run faster, so the water drops do are bassically hitting him in slow motion
My other issue with speedster is how they can move people without damaging them. Like in the scene where Quicksilver save everyone from the explosion. You said it, moving at that speed would make hum butter, but he doesnt so he has incredible resistance. But this those not apply to people he is moving, those people should die being move so car that fast. Like when je damage then by punching them really fast
When Apocalypse trapped Quicksilver he was also moving in slow motion, and when Quicksilver realized he was trapped tried to punch Apocalypse instead of breakingbfree. It makes total sense for him to lose that fight since Apocalypse was also experiencing things in slow motion. PS Quicksilver doesn't experience things in slow motion 24/7 like Bays Talks suggests. Only when he's running and stops before letting time catch up with him otherwise how can he have a conversation with anyone. As far as MCU Quicksilver he got hit by a bullet from behind. He couldn't see it coming and that can also explain why he died, but he was running towards bullets, some of which he could have gotten clipped by because they were still falling behind him after he passed. Or because he was running towards the bullets and wasn't worried about dodging all of them, save Clint and that kid. When you running towards something you increase the odds of it hitting you, and according to Neil DeGrasse Tyson that's why you get more wet when running in the rain then you do when walking in it.
This is why I love Terry Pratchett’s *Thief of Time.* The monks of Oi Dong can slice time to move more quickly, but there are hard limits on what their bodies can endure and how hard it becomes just to move through air. All of Discworld is wonderful, but this book is a particular gem.
I agree with every point that you made except that last one about moving Hawkeye, it seems like he was shifted due to the wind speeding past him. Also, something else to be noted was how he "moved" magneto or any other person at those crazy speeds. They too would require a crazy level of physical endurance.
Make a video explaining how it would look to realistically defeat specific speedsters. Like for example, what would've been necessary to defeat X-Men's Quicksilver by the villains he faces
I'm going to defend MCU Quicksilver. Yes he can see bullets in slow motion but he gets tired throughout the final battle. It wouldn't be a stretch to say he gets slower throughout the battle. You even show a clip of him stopping to take a breather. He's already tired by the time he saves them and problem isn't even looking at the bullets coming at him and just in Hawkeye.
The one thing that can make something feel off, its the lack of consistancy. When you apply a rule, show it and utilize it, you gotta make sure that the rule stays so we can stay immersed.
Originally, i thought quicksilvers' death in mcu made a little more sense because, for some reason, i remembered him pushing the car a short distance instead of grabbing Hawkeye
I was thinking the same after I saw the "one minute war" where superman literally just had time to ask "what the fuck is going on" while the speedsters had time for an entire war.
Good take. Nice job. I’ve been thinking somewhat of this to. Like how does he stop without a stopping distance. He obviously can halt physics. In that scen you cut in where he tackles Thor you can see how he grabs the rails to stop his own momentum to be able to turn. That detail was good. Otherwise he should 100% just smack into the wall.
I got one thing you probably didn’t notice about the kitchen scene. What does quick silver do before saving the day? He puts his earbuds in and listens to his music. Now that music has got to be playing as fast as he his so he can actually listen to it if not he would not have got to listen to it at all saving the day. So he’s must have a device to play his music super fast.
Speedsters are sick as Hell as a concept but they only ever truly lose in a couple of predictable ways: Another speedster on their level outsmarts them. The speedster's powers backfire, harmfully, against them. They lose their powers during a critical moment. The speedster limits themselves intentionally to prevent collateral damage, leaving them vulnerable. .... that's pretty much it. They can't lose (reasonably), otherwise. That's why the inconsistencies HAVE to happen, otherwise plots within movies would entirely revolve around their weakened state of vulnerability, or they outright have to lose/die. MCU's Quicksilver absolutely got shafted HARD. They absolutely COULD NOT allow that character to exist beyond the movie he premiered in. There would be no stopping him. As for the FOX Quicksilver... well, you already pointed it all out so... haha. And this is coming from a MASSIVE Flash fan. :D
I completely agree but one thing you also have to consider for the mcu quicksilver is that bullets are pretty damn small and with a lot of rubble flying around thats not translucent like water drops it could be harder to differentiate bullets from slower wood chips or whatever
Nerfing has always been a thing in comics and movies. It will never make sense, because then many characters in Marvel/DC could never be defeated for one reason or the next. Not attempting to justify the absurdity, rather state the obvious. You have all these wildly different characters existing in the same world, and you have to make these characters relatively balanced in their abilities in order to tell a storyline, in most cases. You can stretch this series forever because it's always gonna be a thing as long as these adaptations are adopting unrealistic comic book characters and attempting to assimilate them in a semi-realistic universe where the stakes being high are intriguing and - if it their abilities were adopted to the letter - wouldn't make any real sense. Then again, these IP's are not even certain or consistent of their own characters powers/abilities. It's just make a character, and then when they have to face somebody else, take creative license to make it happen.
I agree with you! But on the other side, these kind of logical inconsistencies are all over both Marvel's and DC's films and cartoons...all the time IMHO
In the X-Files episode “Rush” part of how they found the speedsters was the burnt rubber left from their shoes. Quicksilver should need to replace his whole outfit every time he does this, those designer pants don’t look like they’d even withstand a regular 100m dash
I never noticed that scene where Quicksilver dies after saving Hawkeye, that he shouldn't have been standing where he was after moving Hawkeye out of the way. I always weirdly looked at that scene that he should have been able to dodge or "deflect" the bullets like he did in the X-men movie. But again as you pointed out... If he was MOVING Hawkeye out of the line of fire, how or WHY was he standing in the open riddled with bullet holes? It no longer makes ANY sense to me.
Guys when I say "he can slow down time" I mean he can make time appear slow to him because of his perception. Needed to clear that up.
2 of them are the best mind readers in the xmen universe. He can think fast but he would still have to plan out their moves and react to what they are doing. Most of the speed character a very cocky and arrogant and that is usually what does them in. Dont forget they are omega level mutants for a reason both can change the persons perception of event or even freezing them shown by professor x. Id agree with you on the on the avengers though. Though didnt watch the apocalypse movie so i dont know if he had the power to absorb others powers in it but if the included it or not. Mind powers are so over powered they would explain a lot of this
great to see people comment on superspeed. you nailed all the problems with the depiction or understanding of superspeed. one of the funniest observations to make, and you'll find some youtube parody vids, when travelling at 'superspeed' and thus slowing down time for their perceptions, they are moving in 'normal speed', ergo if a superspeedster had to run a great distance like across a continent, they would literally, in their time frame 'be running' for a REALLY REALLY long time... as long as it would take a normal person to run a continent. ofcourse the solution is that speedsters are able to increase and decrease their perceptive superspeed like a throttle. so when they do finer work they throttle up, and when more mundane straight runs, they throttle down. Anyway, yeah, superspeed is the most powerful superhero ability.... which few, even comic book writers, can comprehend. Would be nice if someday, a good nerd writer would do it justice.
Talk about cope, like why are you defending goofy plot holes.@@shinysoles-v2z
Lmao😂, who tf is confused this video was worded perfectly and very easy and entertaining to follow
Interesting takes.
If speedsters had consistency, they would genuinely never lose.
They would, you just need to introduce characters that have like, insane durability so the speedster can't one shot em, stuff like conceptual manipulation, time manipulation, plot manipulation and the likes of those absurdly op abilities
One way to beat a speedster : you spread in the air a product that is lethal but only later (a slow chemical reaction or a virus whatever). The speedster won't see you coming, will breath it and die later.
Same with Ant-Man. That's why he's always missing in action or on house arrest.
Almost. If a speedster stayed consistent the write would have to do WAY more work. Quicksilver is the first or The Flash have elements of what they need, a limit. The limit for Quicksilver is him getting tired: use this to make him have to save too many people or something , anything that would result in him not being able to not lose any situation and have to pick and choose between saving people and or beating every threat. The Flash has a similar but different limit: He has to refill his tank, he's not shown eating nearly enough in later seasons, he should also be eating Goku big meal quantities EVERY meal after a MAJOR fight and even more so after injuries. This all stuff is everyday non-writers thought of. Writers just need to write better sense or stop writing speedsters because we either see them get nerfed or lose to trash logic. The Mr Freeze guy in flash is among the stupidest things i've had the misfortune to witness.
@@Stone_Squared that's not a good solution, that just transfers the power problem to that person. Now you have a power creep.
Quicksilver is practically a god in the xmen movies yet he still gets beat in stupid ways
Plot is always the reason when it comes to speedsters 😂
Fr
Fox is stupid and never really cared enough about the characters to get their abilities right, just close enough to get film in a can and on a screen so they got paid.
Can't say I agree w/ stupid ways in the Xmen movies. He got stopped by Apocalypse and Phoenix in the Xmen movies... Those 2 situations would completely pan out. In MCU he got killed by a machine gun.
They're all powerful or weak as the plot requires. Look at Bucky in his movie vs every other movie he's in. Wanda Maximoff is a god compared to any other witch yet Agatha Harkness had the upper hand until the TV series was almost over. Spiderman is always super strong yet Vulture bullied him in Homecoming when he wasn't wearing his super suit.
At this point I'm convinced that its impossible to write a speedster faster than Dash (Incredible) while also making them reasonable.
You mean dash but I get the vision/point.
@lightning10053 oh yeah u right
jake paul is way more faster than all of them!!!
I think Wally West was written incredibly well in Young Justice. Big part of that is getting rid of the Speed Force bc it’s literally a cheap way to do random bullshit go
@ain3sh yeah would be cool to have a speedster who cannot just go super fast all the time because of the consequences it would have for the environment like constantly breaking sound barrier
Moving at normal speeds while perceiving the world in slow motion is already insane but quicksilver is moving at unreactable speeds in slow motion
yeah like honestly the "time in a bottle" scene as the viewer watches it is basically as it's written from the perspective of quicksilver. that's how overpoweringly fast he is
I was just thinking about over powered supercharacters the other day. One another who went ridiculously powerful with just some little training is Doctor Strange.
@@magnuskallas If you remember though dr strange is basically a genius. Not as Smart as Bruce or Stark but he is up there. Plus he got control over the time stone fairly early. If he used the time stone to pause time couldn't Strange have been training for a very long time but to everyone else basically no time had passed? That is what I assumed happed. Plus he was being trained by someone who had already mastered the mystical arts. unlike other hero's who had to figure out there powers/abilities on there own.
@@tjsmead1844 I had to check it again, and while you make sense, Dr Strange was the character that introduced "magic" to Marvel, to create a new market next to genetic mishaps, hi-tec, and yes, aliens. It still kind of proves the point that he has always been the odd one.
Is unreactable a word?? Doesn't seem like it. What does it mean?? Slowsilver is fodder compared to Comic Flash and is far slower than even his own comic counterparts. Moving slow enough to perceive everything in slow motion is also below light speed. Many characters can go Faster than Light which in of itself isn't very impressive considering the higher tiers above Infinite Speed such as Inaccessible, Immeasurable and Irrelevant.
Marvel: We Can’t make Quicksilver overpowered! It would ruin the plot!
Also Marvel: Let’s Add Sentry
Also, let's just make his sister basically God.
Sentry is a literal god lol
Sentry scales to around moon level
@@blackirontarkus3156 Until he basically ended molecule man maybe, but molecule man is multi dimensional level and plot device man had no problem disintegrating him,
@@blackirontarkus3156 Even if you only read his first series this is insane downplay
Speedsters fundamentally don't make sense in our physical reality. At even the lower end of these speeds air would be swmming in molassis and inertia would completely overwhelm traction to the ground making it impossible to stop or turn. Also deafening sonic booms any time you move. Anyone you move would be ripped apart to chunks and have all their organs liquefied - even if you could somehow survive it. At the higher ends like Flash it becomes even stupider with just the movement itself causing massive, potentially planet-ending explosions. Approaching relativistic speeds almost anything could happen.
But yea - superspeed with equal level of thinking/reactions even at a very low level would be hard to beat with most other powers - and it necessarily has to include many other powers like super-strength, super-durability and flight to make any sort of sense. At that point you are essentially Superman.
The closest we can come to experience something like this is probably in the VR game "super hot". Very highly recommended if you have the gear to play it. It demonstrates just how ridiculously OP even highly limited superspeed is.
The flash they use the speed force as their catchall excuse for why it works. When running fast from the speed force it doesn't impact the world around them etc. The problem for DC is then, explain superman and why him traveling at those speeds doesn't wreck everything.
@@Ahglock The speedforce ends up being too convenient.
supernatural powers
Most speedsters don't use physical prowess to move fast. They can alter time in some way like shift their own relative time compared to everything else. How personal time dilation like that interacts in an atmosphere, no one knows but its comics.
If Superman tries to catch up to the Flash, Supes would cause a sonic boom yet Flash won't and he can still speed up.
It definitely works if space time is dilated around you similar to anti-gravity proportion, instead, it would be Anti times space proportion
You should make a video about how sonic went from perceiving time in slow-motion in the first sonic movie to barely being able to run faster then a car in the second movie
Sonic is afraid water. So it was like a mental block. But yeah he should be able to do it with ease
@@chimmychanga6798 He does do it in the second movie but I do see your point.
Well, I remember him saying he fell into the pacific ocean in the first movie when he was trying to run on water in the first movie.
Soooo...
@@ThatAnArchyDude Look at the bar scene in the first movie.
@@yesbutcooler Yeah... what about it?
Don't see what that has to do with mentioning him having trouble running on water in the second movie like it was some change when it wasn't because he had the same problem in the first movie.... literally, the same movie with the bar scene in question.
So there was no point in even bringing up the second movie to illustrate your point.
So your point is stronger when considering he had that same problem in the same movie.
I agree with almost everything in this video, I want to just point out a few things.
1:45 water jet cutters add an abrasive material in the water to allow them to cut through things like glass and metal, but even without it just water at that speed could cut fingers.
3:00 Apocalypse was shown to copy other powers when they are being used against him, like how he used telepathy only when Xavier was using it near him, so when the camera zooms in on his eyes and they start moving very fast is when he started copying Quicksilver's super speed. You could say he shouldn't be able to do that because it happened in too short an amount of time for him to think, but maybe his power copying ability activates automatically. But you're right, Quicksilver should have been able to break that sand.
5:36 you could argue that even this shouldn't happen, since from his perspective the hammer is moving very slowly, so when he grabs it, he would notice that he can't move it and that the hammer is slowly pulling him backwards, so he would just let go.
See this I can understand better. his eyes go silver he adopts qicksilver speed, this allowed him to see and trap him. but they seem to link his silvered eyes to the ground change so...writers...
Apocalypse most certainly should be able to stop Quicksilver. Simply put, in the comics Apocalypse is one of the most powerful of all mutants...
I'm a little fuzzy on how the movies portrayed Apocalypse, but I believe he was considered an immortal entity that could transfer from body to body and retain all the abilities from previous hosts. He's literally being written as a god. I may be incorrect in my understanding of the situation, but as long as he goes one on one, no one is getting the better of him.
@@legion5463 Correct, very few would be able to take him 1 on 1. Phoenix could, but not really anyone else in the Avengers or Xmen movies... Scarlet Witch would give him a lot of trouble. And Magneto technically could if they had him go absolutely rageful like he did in Age of Apocalypse comics. But Magneto in his normal mentality wouldn't be able to destroy Apocalypse...
This is still a stupid argument. If QS can move at the 6000 the speed of sound, you won't see him. Even if Apo's power react automatically, it is still not enough time for him to be able to copy QS's super speed. Plus how fast must the sand move to be able to trap QS, that means the sand built up faster than QS moves. For me, no matter how you argue it, it is still not really acceptable.
5:36 being able to perceive the hammer in slow motion should mean that he could've just let go
It all comes down to superhero stories revolving around "what looks cool". It's the same reason starships fly like airplanes, alien women are always hot, and explosions always make that big orange gasoline fireball no matter what kind of explosive is used.
You can't expect much else from a medium that relies on mass-audience appeal.
Hahaha, i always laugh when cars in movies crash and the engine is fine but it blows up anyway and the explosions are always huge.
The gasoline thing is partially for safety reasons. IIRC, those are a lot more controllable than, say, C4 or dynamite.
I've never seen an aeroplane go from 0 to 55,000 MPS+ in less than a second or fly directly vertical and out into space and then bend space in front of it to travel to other Galaxies.
Do you mean that ships fly forward?? Well real life spacecraft do that and it helps them continuously fall back onto the Earth to achieve orbit. Even satellites do that too.
They don't fly backwards otherwise that would completely contradict momentum, energy conservation, inertia and basic thermodynamics as things and objects don't move backwards when having force or momentum applied to them unless altered by exotic particles. Like negative mass and movement particles like the theoretical Gravitons.
@@CerealExperimentsMizuki I think they're referring to the fact that a lot of space movies depict space craft doing aerial maneuvers, dodging asteroids, and doing combat generally like what you would've seen WWII planes flying around doing in non space age movies. In reality, even in the most dense regions of the asteroid belt, asteroids are hundreds of thousands of miles apart on average and so no craft would really be dodging anything, and space combat would take place entirely differently because of the vast distances between objects and the speeds they would be traveling. However, having the crew freak out as the craft does barrel rolls to dodge asteroids is more exciting.
Somehow alien women always have massive jugs even when it doesn’t make sense for them to have mammalian traits lolol
only good thing about the boys was showing how insanely overpowered their speedster character is at any given moment. Literally took a random heart attack to beat the a train.
Wasn’t a random heart attack
Yeah I think it was the first movie to show what would probably really happen hitting a stationary object while moving that fast. It would explode
@@Iechner show, not movie
the way more good things about that show
Only good thing? I bet ur a sensitive loser who can only watch Disney shows 😭
5:05 not to mention, why does he fall at super speed? He doesn’t speed up gravity.
It's convenient. the easiest way to take away a speedsters advantage is to get them off the ground. The writers realised he would basically be stuck in the air and super convenient to kill for Wanda.
@@CursedCapsuleStudiodid you just answer his question with a totally different answer 🤯
@@CursedCapsuleStudiohe didn't ask if he was convenient for the writers to keep them in the air so he couldn't run he asked why Quicksilver fell out of the sky like a goddamn bullet at super speed I didn't know quicksilver could control gravity.
@LittleQ-ko6fl
I will have to take the L here because I didn't explain it completely and I went of course with my answer.
it's the same thing. Even if he is going to fall, there must be consistency in his movement, or else it is jarring for the audience.
The reason he falls in the first place is because of the convenience. I hope this makes what I was trying to say clearer
@@LittleQ-ko6fl I think you give the writers too much credit, but, yes, that's what should have happened, without a foothold, Quicksilver would end up floundering in the air and have to resort to swimming motions and looking really silly.
X-Men movies don't do any character justice.
THEY SEEM TO GET MAGNETO RiGHT [NOT YELLiNG, JUZT LiKE TYPiNG iN CAPZ]
@RicoTheCEO_
Magneto Fassbender/Mckellen
Xavier /Mcaavoy Stewart
Quicksilver
And Of Course Wolverine
The Foxverse is over-hated. They want their colorful X-Men. Watch their annoying 90s series.
Way more justice than Avengers movies did... That scene in Days of Future Past was awesome!
Yet. Lets see the new XMen, hopefully they wont keep making the Summers brothers a pair of bitches.
DeadPool was great although I think he's both MCU and Fox.
I think Wolverine is the best, almost every movie he's in is great with Hugh Jackman.
Great video, consider looking into Beast Boy, he opened pandora's box too by transforming into alien species, the things he transforms into in some of the comic book canons make him theoretically insanely powerful
Does he have to KNOW about the alien, or can he just think "I need something that can crush an Imperial destroyer", and his power will rummage through the cosmos and find that giant asteroid snake from Empire Strikes Back?
I am not an expert or anything I just fell into a rabbit hole one day, but I think he has to know about the entity, it wasn't just aliens either, iirc in one of the comics he turns into a Phoenix, which could open the door for Mythological beasts too
He could turn into fucking STARRO THE CONQUERE, he's badass
He can turned into a Dragon, they lowball BB to honestly give everybody else a chance.
So...he is Ben 10 now
Physics completely falls apart for speedsters unless you invent additional magic powers. For example, gravity alone makes it impossible for quicksilver to propel himself at that speed, so either gravity becomes insanely more powerful for him alone, or he can actually direct his body in any direction at will, not requiring him to actually push off of the ground.
The first step at that speed would launch him into orbit
3:06 Did you not see him gaining enhanced perception in that scene or just missed it? When your eyes track or focus on something your pupils & irises contracts his did so dramatically trying to gain a new power
Still didn't explain why QS didnt stay in super speed and dig himself free
@ the rock goes into his skin
Nah fr like idk if he actually gained super speed but it was clearly trying to infer him adjusting and having super speed perception same with Jean grey that moment was to show how powerful she was that a guy who is that quick can’t even catch her off guard I do still think the rock boot was a dumb way to trap him they definitely should’ve came up with something more creative and consistent or just him knocking his lights out like super man slowly figuring out the flash’s patterns and needing just one good hit to take him out
@@yeahok6240 To that, I would think that Apocalypse would just actively keep him locked in the sand as QS tried to free himself. Still doesn't explain how he moved the sand faster than QS could move, but idk how that power works.
@@yeahok6240so the guy’s supposed to just keep moving after his leg is trapped in whatever tf that was? 💀
6:11 Even if he had not seen the bullet coming, approaching from a blind spot, his reaction speed is such that at the moment of contact, he could move out of its way.
Yeah, but look where it was going if he did.
@@Nutshellboundcould have easily moved out of the way and moved the bullet as well. Didn't have to get hit. 😊
@@peterburch1108 seems to me if it misses him it's still headed in Wanda's general direction though. Saying it looked deliberate.
@@NutshellboundHe is moving far faster than the bullet he can literally move it out of the way without getting injured
I am not going to truly defend the Quicksilver/Jean Grey fight, but I will suggest a plausible reason. She has the Phoenix Force in her amping her abilities. So the moment Quicksilver thinks "I'll run at her from here" she knows his intention and removes the stepping stone debris. She's not reacting to him mid-run, she's reacting to before he even moved. It just LOOKS like she is reacting to him running.
I mean, they both have super powers too. Why can't she be allowed to have her powers be faster than her own running speed or have her powers artificially amplify her speed?
@@Anonymice That's why he points out the speed of his perception. Her powers can do a lot of things, amplifying her speed of perception/reaction is not part of it as it is for him. If it were, she would be quite literally unbeatable as her brute force telekenesis/telekenetic powers are already so absurdly powerful if her perception and reaction were to the level of picoseconds like a speedster is shown to be there's zero counter. Period. She would simply appear omnipotent and end every fight before they have a chance to realize they are IN a fight which is not shown anywhere else so obviously not true.
Apocalypse and Jean Grey/Phoenix stopping Quicksilver make complete sense if you know the comics...
Why wouldn't he react to what she's doing? She had to do it while he's in the middle of running, so that doesn't work unless she has superspeed.
@@thatrandomguyo1 I don't think you realize just how powerful phoenix is. She's one of those mutants that's essentially so powerful she's borderline goddess. Kind of like Onslaught. Theres not really a force equal to her in the current x-men cinematic universe, granted Charles come's the closest.
How to fix speedsters:
1. Don't make them freeze time.
2. If they do freeze time, don't make them use super speed while also freezing time.
Having Two contradictory powers, very nice.
Firstly speedsters can't coexist with normal environment scientifically
Because if there is something moving faster than speed of sound there will be production of SONIC BOOM which will destroy it's surroundings.
They don’t freeze time they think at super speed and therefore time to them is considerably slower. If they aren’t able to react and think at super speed they won’t be able to turn or stop at all
Just make a movie where everyone involved in the plot is a speedster, including the bad guys. It worked well for the flash I'm the first seasons, despite, of course, the horrendous writing whenever non speedsters were involved
Option 3: If they do freeze/slow time, they also freeze/slow all photons and molecular movement of foreign objects. Their vision goes completely/nearly black while stationary, and they can only see the photons that are in the direct path of their eyeballs as they run and collide with said photons (meaning severe tunnel vision). Their surroundings feel incredibly cold while stationary (as their own body's molecules are moving significantly faster than their surroundings), and unbearably hot while moving fast (as they're being bombarded with pressure and friction from the air).
The faster they move, the more detrimental forces they experience. Thus a natural limit is created as to how quickly they can move if they want to remain living.
I liked MCU Quicksilver, but I hated the way he died because it did not make sense. I would like to know how the other movies would play out with him.
I mean, this dude can SPEED UP even while in slow motion. And the Apocalypse can see him in slow motion? It's some kind of quantum teleportation sh*t happening in his brain.
they only had permission to use QS in the MCU for 1 film so not surprised they killed him off stupidly
They had access to use him for as long as they wanted. They just couldn't call him Quicksilver, just like they couldn't call Wanda the Scarlet Witch. I think they just didn't want to deal with having a speedster (not to mention that he served as a way to raise the stakes by having a hero die without losing one of the main cast). Even after acquiring Fox, they only brought Quicksilver back as a joke.
@@SgtSupaman no the acter who played him just wanted a 1 time role so they had to kill him off
This is all from OSP's Red (trope talk: character deaths), but if Quicksilver had survived in the MCU, we may have had him and Wanda fighting in Civil War, he could have fought Thanos and realistically lost since he's slower and weaker than other versions of Quicksilver. If he survived the snap he may have spent his time running around and trying his best to help anywhere he can, broken by the loss of his sister, and then in endgame his twin sister comes back, but suddenly he's older than her. The biggest problem with the MCU Quicksilver's death is not just that the way he dies is dumb, but also that his death stopped any interesting things with him from even happening.
I actually prefer MCU Quicksilver because he displays a more realistic version of running fast. You should try doing a video on Makkari from Eternals.
Exactly. If someone was as fast as he’s portrayed with Evan Peters in X Men, who the hell could stop him without some asinine plot convenience or plot hole? Why not have him accomplish everything needing done?
Same here,the way they protrayed mcu quicksilver is actually my fav interpretation of a speedster
If he was moving 8,000 times the speed of sound, everybody he saved in that house would be disintegrated instantly.
THANK YOU for pointing out how unfathomably stupid it was for the MCU's Quicksilver to die while saving Hawkeye. Ever since Age of Ultron came out, I've been feeling like I was the only one who saw the problem there.
Apocalypse can give himself any super power at will… so if he needs to get super speed, he can get it. 3:24
I genuinely can't believe someone would make an argument that villain close to God level wouldn't be able to topple a speedster.
Is that true? It’s been a while since I’ve seen the movie, but didn’t he try to steal Charles body after trying to get HIM to send a message to all humanity? If he could get any superpower he wants, why couldn’t he just get mass telepathy or something
Unless, he need Charles to do it with cerebro (idk how to spell it). But if that was the case, he could have given himself a better form of telepathy so he could relay a message to everyone on earth by himself?
That’s the problem with the statement “he can give himself any superpower he wants”. He would LITERALLY BE UNKILLABLE if that were the case. If he can do that, he could just give himself super-speed and just kill anyone who tries to stop his plan in ending humanity or whatever? Or give himself, idk, REALITY OR PROBABILITY manipulation, and then turn all his enemies into SPAGHETTI.
Assuming he can give himself ”ANY” super power somehow, that ruins the entirety of the story, plot and stakes of the whole movie, since he can whip out some power like, “oh, you look at me, and you turn into atoms” and nobody can do anything against it
He would have crazy momentum at 5:00 and would not fall like that with how fast he was going, he would barrel straight into jane.
Was just about to say exactly this, he would still fly directly into her, great comment
Ive said this all along. Imagine getting punches at 8 times the speed of sound, example if a bullet travels 700 mph and weights 7 grams, now a punch weighting in 5lbs traveling at Mach 8. This punch would literally wipe a city and vaporize the point of contact with just the kinetic energy. Assuming his arm is 5 kg: KE =1/2 (5)(2744to the pwer of 2) ≈18.8 × 10 to the power of 10 joules.
someone check his maths pls
His statement about it being able to vaporize a city is flat out wrong. That much joules would equal about 44.93 tons of tnt or city block level. Not city level.@@annunakim525
That would not vaporize a city
My guy, this isn't even 1 kilotons worth of TNT. It's not even 50 tons worth.
What city are you talking about, a Minecraft village? 😂
@daenite2480 it's 44.93 tons to be exact
1:00 you can see the drops of water hitting his clothing. If it was simply he had durability, that would be one thing. Whatever magic he has, it's protecting him and his cloths as well. It has to be some kind of "aura" or something.
something like the speedforce, but that's for DC.
The way he super speed works (Atleast in the comics, might not apply to the movies), is that he's basically just making his body super duper light.
@@dattos140 Would that not make him super fragile and therefore anything hitting him at those speeds (including dust and water particles) would totally destroy him?
@@ShadeSlayer1911 I don't know, it's gotta be an aura of light weightness (Kinda like what that other person said), cause otherwise wouldn't his clothes fuck him up too? If it is an aura, then he would also be making the water droplets and shit super light.
If we can't apply abilities from the comics to the movies the why the fuck do we even make comic book movies?!?
To piss off trolls and make a $hit load of ca$h.
Right?! Apocalypse and Jean Grey/Phoenix most certainly can stop Quicksilver in the comics, so I'm not understanding why people have a hard time seeing how that happened in the movies.
Well, in comics he's literally immortal
Comic book movies are made to appeal to a bigger set of people than only comic book fans. For maximizing profit. But marvel comics has been running for some 1000 years now and we got only about 2 movies with quicksilver. Comic book Movie-watching people don't have the context about why apocalypse and Jean grey are able to defeat a speedster. We all know what speed is. We have context to imagine what a speedster is capable of. But we haven't seen the psychics do anything that can compete with a speedster. We don't have context. Yeah, you might be the most powerful magician, but before you can think about doing something, speedster should have already punched you with supersonic speed. So them defeating speedsters looks unfair.
Because the comics aren't the movies. The characters come from the comics, yes, but there's also like a hundred different iterations of the same character from different comics. Not every hulk is world breaker hulk. Not ever spider man is spidersman (who is just a bunch of spiders pretending to be a man.) Or Spider mam, when peter died and his ant became a super hero instead. So if you make a spider man movie, there's no 1 correct source to draw from. So its easiest to just make a new spider man that'll appeal to a much wider audience, ones that likely didn't read the comics.
1:52 Quicksilver, as superboy, needs to have a force field protecting his clothes and everything he carries from being cut at these speeds.
1:40 RIP Denzel in that inserted clip of that particular movie, man what's with these bros randomly shooting from the back by surprise
and quicksilver also casually manages to have super speed IN the slowed down time
5:58 ain't he new to his abilities? Even at the start of the film they said they may not be ready to fight
Yo when you said thors hammer and played a snip of that song I was dying 😂😂
1:41 the water jets are not just shooting water, they contain hard minerals like quarts, ruby or even diamond.
The water has no where near the cutting power without.
really depends on the PSI, enough pressure and even without abrasive materials it still can cut. and im not talking out my ass here, operated a CNC machine for a couple of years and not all water jets have abrasive material, just high PSI
I agree the water jet wasn't a great example for what he was trying to explain. Water is very imcompressible so quicksilver hitting water while moving beyond the speed of sound should cause an explosion. His initial acceleration beyond the speed of sound should also cause multiple sonic booms which in a confined space should deafen or injure everyone but QS. The physics of any object accelerating as speedsters do is completely broken unless they are shown to obliterate everything around them. Like one of the other comments said, dash in the incredibles is basically the limit before we get into sonic-boom-man who wrecks everything around him.
I've always been confused by whether quicksilver is a fast guy or if his superpower is kinda stopping or slowing down time. Because when he's not running, things are still in slow motion
Would love to see a series, where the main character has superspeed with realistic outcomes (winning every fight, doing everything in superspeed) and being stupidly OP.
His fight against Apocalypse is somewhat believable in the movie universe. since he could have distracted Quicksilver into breaking concentration with the leg hold to make him result in coming out of speed. And him noticing him doesnt mean he was able to fight him at the same speed, just means he could detect him since he does have alot of powers in the movie. His fight with jean only way i could say he lost that is somehow the phoenix force but i def agree that is not believeable. and MCU Quicksilver the shot in the arm he coulding have noticed the bullet but he def could have survived his death scene.
Apocalypse power is to be able to manipulate and control other mutants powers. That's how he took control of Cerebro when Xavier contacted him indirectly and how he empowered his Riders. It's reasonable to asume that he can use that power to limit or perceive Quicksilver powers. Maybe he even can "kick him out of" superspeed.
Quicksilver CAN'T come out of his perception though. He's stuck in it, that's why he has headphones on playing crazy fast music nobody else could listen to ( I don't think that'd even work, physically, but it's clear what they're trying to show) because he's unable to just enjoy himself watching normal media because it'd be agonizingly boring watching a movie for him, since he can't relax that perception.
So the idea that he got flustered and caught off guard makes no sense, he'd need to be flustered for like 3 months from his perspective.
The thing that's really dumb is there are perfectly logical ways to take out speedsters, like using light based attacks or telepathy or undetectable poisons. The way to kill a speedster isn't aiming a really good shot at where they'll be, it's tricking them into breathing in some nerve gas so they show up and drop dead before you even realize they got there.
@@Gusanoman it's a good theory, but at the same time we don't see him shutting down any other mutants powers, he has no choice but to tank them.
@@oldcat1790 Yeah, but the other powers that are used against him are pretty much useless (Mystic is awesome but she can't do any harm) except when he is overpowered. He confronts and even controls Xavier's but clearly when they team up (like five or six mutants against him if I remember right) he can't do much about it.
whenever people with super speed get a broken bone they have to experience that in slow motion
I Always understood his death as him pushing a car in front of Hawkeye and being caught up in the spreading fire from ultron, and it baffled me because how the hell did he push and flip over a car if he doesn't have super strength
E=Mc2 the more faster he moves the more mass he would be the stronger he would seem at higer speeds giving that he wont rip himself apart first
@@ellpee775 E=Mc^2 is Only correct For objects That are Moving slowly Relative the Observer.
E^2 = M^2c^4 +p^2c^2
For relativistic Mass, its M(rel) = m/sqrt(1-(v/c)^2)
@@dr.blockcraft6633 it changes nothing hes got super strength through speed regardless
@@ellpee775yeah, but it’s not like Captain America or Thor’s bro barley has enough durability to run though the ultron drones and was shown getting tired overtime, even if he could why would he push a car towards them instead of just grabbing out the line of fire?
You got it right bro
I love it, your commentary is no nonsense, and frank. Keep it up.
Many moons ago when Quicksilver first appeared in comics, he was as fast as mach 10 (according to google) which is 10 times the speed of sound an nowhere near the speed of light. That being said, I remember reading him being only as fast as twice the speed of sound in comic such as The Amazing Spiderman, I think.
Things have changed and now he is able to reach light speed . Which does not make sense because he doesn't have anything like the Speedforce to bend physics
@@Faster_than_light_yoSpeedforce is only a DC thing marvel or any other media speedsters don't need speedforce to be fast
@@nelsonisc9670 it's not about the speed coming from speedforce but the physics bending- i.e magical protection that breaks the rules of physics. you know Newtons laws right. and that power = mass times acceleration? just imagine that he touches something at superspeed. if he's not like i can take 1000 nukes to the face durable he'd lose an arm each time he touches something. or wouldnt even touch anything because the air friction alone would burn it off anyway. - speedforce is just the magic way to skip that because it surrounds him while he runs and makes him kinda skip those parts.
@Extra_Onions Being a speedster alone defies physics so it's not a stretch to say why guys with no speedforce excuse to rely on doesn't insta nuke the planet when they run is because their power work in a way it prevents such from happening
Being a speedster also comes with their logics
@@nelsonisc9670 you didn't understand what i was trying to say, Quicksilver can reach light speed but how come he doesn't cause destruction to his surroundings? that's the thing am talking about even tho I absolutely do not care about physics accuracy and logic in comicbook media but previousstly Quicksilver himself stated that he can cause Earthquakes but now they have forgotten that
what a lot of people seem to forget is that Super speed Perception =/= omnicience, he can react to things he can percieve, meaning that if he's not expecting something to happen, like for instance the ground moving to trap one of his legs while he's focusing on the main badguy and running at super speed, he's probbly not gonna be able to react to it in time
and before people say "what about pherifieral vision" the dude is wearing goggles so his vision is obviously limited by that, not to mention the fact that QS in the clip he showed was being arrogant, he litteraly sped up to the guy, laughed and then started punching him, in his mind he was that fast, that no one could react to him, and was probbly subconsiously considering this guy a non threat
And on top of everything else, Apocalypse as potrayed in the XMMCU was the FIRST mutant, he has hundreds if not THOUSANDS of powers, not all of them are going to be as imeditatly useful as partical manipulation, if you notice QS gets quite a few punches in before Poccys eyes start twiching, that's his mind preforming thousands of calculations a second to relize whats going on, track how fast this guy was going, and predict where was the most optimum time to push his powers to stop him
the dude was litteraly re-aranging enough matter to build a prymid the size of the ones in egypt in SECONDS, is it really that far of a streach to believe he could manipulate enough matter in a couple pico seconds to trap a speederst leg
------
As for the jene grey/Pheonix scene, Speed reading thoughts, having entrie convisations is mere seconds are like....rudementry level powers for psysics in the X-men universe, jene grey was matching and surpassing Proff-X at the age of like 10, without any of the knowlage nessessary to really control that extradonary level of power, she was floating an entire culdasack worth of cars because she was scared with just brute force psysic power, she was then trained by the second most powerfull psysic in the world over the next decade to be able to be so precised with her control that she can fit a thread though a needle (she was able to hold back Cylops ocular lazers without breaking a sweat while kissing him, you know those things that TRAVEL AT OR ATLEAST NEAR LIGHT SPEED), she was then empowerd by an acient cosmic entity that multiplied her powers ten fold
reading quicksilvers mind in the pico second transition from him thinking "oke she's floating in the air, i gotta run up this debris and punch her" to him actualy doing it and not only formulating a counter plan but enacting it, would be childs play
You don't understand that even if we take the lowest estimate Quicksilver's punches should have blown huge holes in Apocalypse. And no, Jean Grey can't react to him, she did not demonstrate such abilities in subsequent fights
This is a perfect example of what the writing community calls the “Pandoras Box Paradox” as in, you establish a character has a certain use with a power, or something within the context of your story is possible, which completely changes how everything works simply because of that one thing. And now in order to not be bullshit, you have to write AROUND that thing. Because if you don’t…. This video happens.
(I’ve unfortunately written a few pandoras boxes in my stuff and I’m trying to remedy them before I move on to actually releasing the story so this was a partial rant of my own personal experience :/)
Cue gojo from jjk. Perfect example, the writer even said it himself.
@ indeed. And my stupid self forgot that I allowed a character to use physics based “magic” to bend spacetime so he can fly, and then continued to write other characters using the same magic and them never flying
Waterjets also use an abrasive, kinda like sand, to cut through things. So it's not just water doing the cutting.
I think you're not wrong about the water drops having less than expected impact on him at that kinda speed, though.
What is most off in that scene, to me, is him moving people around without ripping their limbs off.
The bullets too.
The reason you can't catch a bullet or slap it out of the way isn't because you're not fast enough.
Quicksilver is fast enough, but if he slapped a bullet his hand would just get ripped to shreds.
@@biteyalmighty7874 Slap it, yeah, at that speed, though obviously the water doesn't punch holes in him either. But if you can move as fast as the bullet you can just slow it down. It's not like it's heavy. Only its speed makes it so destructive.
@@brei2670
That's my point though. We can see that momentum / kinetic energy is conserved throughout his ability (Like making the guy punch himself.)
If that's true, those bullets have so much force behind them that even gently touching them would rip your skin apart.
He literally wouldn't be able to change their direction (Let alone blatantly move them around like marbles the way he does in the scene) because, like you said, their speed is what makes them so destructive and their speed is conserved while he's moving around.
Also, the water SHOULD be punching holes in him. Look how his cheeks are flopping around. If the still air around him affects him so dramatically, those water drops would SHRED him, rip his clothes, and shatter those goggles.
@@biteyalmighty7874 Well, I can't argue that none of this makes a whole lot of sense.
MCU Quicksilver's death DOES make sense.
- Bullets are tiny. If you're speeding around a battlefield, even with sped up perception, bullets are SO small, it would be extremely difficult to spot them, especially when they're flying all over the place and moving at a pretty steady pace. We as the audience have the benefit of the camera angles being made for us to see important details, so I think people take for granted that the character would not be able to detect every bullet from every angle as easily as we're shown them.
- When we gets the Hawkeye, the bullets are already baring down on him. I imagine, as he's running up to Hawkeye, those bullets are probably seconds (in Quicksilver's time) from hitting Hawkeye, and he doesn't have time to think about it or maneuver around every single one, he knows as he's approaching that its either let Hawkeye die or sacrifice himself to save him.
I feel like every scene with Quicksilver sets us up for this making sense, we're shown that he gets distracted and doesn't see every detail (he doesn't notice the floor shatter beneath him when the bullet breaks the glass in the Avengers HQ), he can get tired and can't use his powers if he's out of breath, etc.
I agree with this. MCU's Quicksilver seems to be less powerful than X-men's, and there's so much happening that battlefield that he probably did not notice all the bullets (or couldn't avoid them while saving Hawkeye).
I agree that it makes sense for Quicksilver to be able to die that way, but I don't think the movie did a good job of framing this at all in that death scene. He is definitely too far away from Hawkeye to have just moved him. It would have made far more sense for him to be at least partially behind the car with Hawkeye and the kid, but still be riddled with bullets because his speed and timing was only just enough to keep them ahead of the bullets but not himself, or, at the very least, have Hawkeye and the kid fall behind the car to signify that Quicksilver only had time to push them and not enough to grab and relocate them so that him still being some distance away makes sense.
@@SgtSupaman look at the top left-hand corner, the bullets went through the car in ways that match his wounds. I wish it got better showcasing.
@SgtSupaman Yeah, that makes sense
Also, the MCU Quicksilver doesn't seem to know how to fight, so him making basic mistakes is reasonable.
specially riding on a bike without a helmet and its raining the water hurts AF
Jean Grey is psychic isn't she? Foresight is faster than whatever kind of super speed isn't it?
Right. Jean Grey, especially w/ any aspect of the Phoenix power, can stop Quicksilver
Ok, but how was she moving her arm and debris that fast though?
@@dattos140 she doesn't need to move her hand she can move it with her mind, thye just did that so they know that she moved it herself
@@ImJustBetter.00 Ok she still moved her hand as fast as him though, how did she do that? How did she go that fast?
She also moved a bunch of debris not just the next one.
The problem with the waterjet thing is it's not just water. The water is the medium and it carries an abrasive that does the cutting. I didn't know that for a long time.
pretty sure a youtuber made a theory on quicksilver having control over gravity and inertia and has some form of skin density
Yeah
Theory isn't fact though, especially outside of scientific context
@@daenite2480 he used science to prove it, its not a theory if he proved it
@@iatianegs quicksilver does not exist. He's fictional.
There's no science for how his powers work, that's up to the writer.
@@daenite2480 dont have to explain why this comment is bs.
I think its a fair restriction that speedster durability only applies to the physical and relativistic effects of going superspeed, and impacts on your body are capped by how hard they would hit on normal speed (and are not 0). Running into a wall still hurts quite a bit, but the same as it hurts everyone. Doesn't really make it any less op though
Bro in the other video you say word for word TWICE at 1:04 "he can slow down time"
I'm saying time is slow to him even when he isn't moving because of his perception.
@ I mean I totally understood what u meant but I’m just saying u did quite literally say he could slow time
Yeah I kinda messed up wording it like that
Video Idea: a video on how to make good speedsters and how you could maybe beat the overpowered ones.
The one vs Apocalypse made sense to me. Looked like he got surprised and "turned off" his speed mode beause of the surprise. He also looked like he was constantly switching gears to punch Apocalypes around. He lost cause he was cocky.
The one with Jean Gray is strange. I remembet Martian Man Hunter once said he couldn't read Flash's mind when he thinks at super speed.
Yes, and MMH is known to actually HAVE super-speed. Not at Flash' level, but somewhere in the range of Superman, Shazam and Wonder Woman. Jean Grey has never, to my knowledge, in any incarnation been said to have 'super-speed'. Oh well, it was a crap movie for other reasons worse than this one.
No it makes no sense for him to be "surprised" by that. He was moving and thinking in super speed the moment Apocalypse tried to bind his legs with dirt, from Quicksilver's perspective that dirt would have been moving so slowly it may as well be not moving at all. You can't even surprise Quicksilver with a bullet fired from a gun, how the fᴜck would he be surprised by slow moving dirt?
@@ProjectILT Its because he was shifting gears. If he didn't adjust his speed up and down, he would wait forever between each punch before Apocalypse flew to his new location for a follow up punch. When he was running around, he was not at full gear speed the same as he was outrunning an explosion. His super speed is not either on or off settings only. There seems to be adjustable nuance to it.
Surprise effect aside, he was moving probably around the speed of sound. No dirt would be able to withstand such speed, even more so since later the Beast could break it easily. Writers are bad physicists.
@@ixiahj That just begs the question of, "Why does he have to wait for Apocalypse to fly to some distance before he hits him again?" It would make far more sense to just keep hitting him again and again and again and again ... all at one spot, each time delivering ridiculous kinetic energy. All in a milisecond.
There is a thing called “GETTING TIRED” and also can’t always stay in Super speed because it needs to rest while not in super speed
... Because Quicksilver looked SO Winded and Exhausted after saving everyone...
The movie doesn't do the villains justice, if you want to know how powerful and fast they are, read the comics
The villains in the comics demolish quicksilver in the movies, but that’s not fair. You have to compare quicksilver in the movies to the villains in the movies because, as has been shown time and time again, everyone is SIGNIFICANTLY weaker
@@ravioliman4319 it's hard to showcase what the villain can do in movies because their powerset is so vast, him being able to adapt to quicksilver's speed and predict his movements isn't surprising
The comics industry suffers from extreme power creep. As someone who collected comics in the 70s, 80s, and early 90s, I don't even recognize my favorite characters anymore.
Reminds me of RSG 2's "Speedsters Only Lose to Bad Writing" video...
True
Mcu Quicksilver is literally bullet speed by showings and director statement
This has been one of the biggest problems I've had when it comes to the plot around speedsters. Nice to see it fleshed out in a video.
love how you grossly misquote a guy at 4:17, who said "I think of it less as Jean having super speed, and more of an "oh wow any neurological phenomena really is at her disposal, that's crazy" and said that the guy said she had super-speed. The heck? Yeah, she can subconsciously sense neurological phenomena - that's a part of her power.
What's more, a huge part of Quicksilver's power is inertia control. He was able to tank the water droplets because he's allowing inertia to work closer to his perception than to real time. He's not super durable. You just aren't acknowledging how his powers work.
Look at her arm in the clip. She’s moving at super speed which makes no sense. She had to do a gesture to control the floating objects. She also has to be able to react to those neurological phenomenons which means she also has to be able to think in super speed.
quicksilver is so underrated, im dissapointed they lost in dumb ways. I really hope they will come back in future movies and show how resourceful and useful they can be. Going super long distances and back to grab something, stopping time and moving things to gain access or help save people etc. endless possibilities.
He’s not “slowing down time” he’s just accelerating his thoughts process.
He’s thinking at super speed which makes everything seem slow by comparison.
I’m not excusing plot holes, but there are a few things you missed.
One, he’s still a “teenage dirtbag” type… he’s never actually seen combat or anything and he’s used to always winning… he basically lives life in god mode so he doesn’t know how to deal with an actual threat. He can think fast, sure… but he can only think of things he knows… if he panics or encounters a situation he’s never been in, he doesn’t even know what to do.
Two, he can vary his speed. He typically runs “just fast enough” to not burn too much energy and still do everything he wants. Like the escape scene, being faster than bullets was more than enough and probably only pushed him to a fast jog in effort. The explosion was the equivalent of a hard sprint, it burns through his energy fast hence why he stopped to eat pizza… lol my guess is that he assumed he could walk all over apocalypse and went at him at minimum speed. He wasn’t using his full power at the start because he’s cocky and has never been in an actual combat situation where anyone is a threat to him.
Three, speedsters including quicksilver aren’t actually all that durable. They typically have a slight “force field” that protects them from the effects of friction and minor impacts like dust, water drops… etc. in fact, that’s probably what limited his speed in the first sequence because those water drops probably did hurt.. like getting shot with a weak air soft gun. Once you grab a speedster, they’re a bit stronger and more durable than a regular athletic adult. If you have telekinesis and super strength you can absolutely grab them and break a limb.
Again, not excusing plot holes… just explaining how it works. Speedsters are some of my favorite comic character types, and I’m a big fan of Flash and I’ve read a decent amount of comics with Quicksilver. Quicksilver is canonically not nearly as fast as Flash but he’s a mutant and doesn’t rely on the speed force. They both have advantages and disadvantages to their powers. Also, Pietro is typically a much darker and more aggressive character willing to fight dirty… Flash (Barry/Wally) are the more classic “Boy Scout” style heroes.
technically I think all speed, momentum and even progress relies on the speed force. It's the force behind momentum itself all things need to move even life and death moves, the speed force is behind all of it so the flash being connected to it directly means all momentum, all life, progress and movement is backing him up. Anyone that moves is only allowed to do so because the speed force exists, the flash can outrun death itself because death still exists under the speed force while the flash exists in the speed force or directly connects to it.
@@OtakuWrath that only applies to the DC multiverse
I always interpreted the Marvel Quicksilver death to be that he pushed a car to block Hawkeye from getting shot, but that he was still exposed the whole time.
That freeze gun got me bruv
The water drops do not have any damage on quicksilver due to the fact that he slows the things around him down which makes him run faster, so the water drops do are bassically hitting him in slow motion
My other issue with speedster is how they can move people without damaging them. Like in the scene where Quicksilver save everyone from the explosion. You said it, moving at that speed would make hum butter, but he doesnt so he has incredible resistance. But this those not apply to people he is moving, those people should die being move so car that fast. Like when je damage then by punching them really fast
Y’know it would be really interesting to see quicksilver in the other mcu movies
When Apocalypse trapped Quicksilver he was also moving in slow motion, and when Quicksilver realized he was trapped tried to punch Apocalypse instead of breakingbfree. It makes total sense for him to lose that fight since Apocalypse was also experiencing things in slow motion. PS Quicksilver doesn't experience things in slow motion 24/7 like Bays Talks suggests. Only when he's running and stops before letting time catch up with him otherwise how can he have a conversation with anyone.
As far as MCU Quicksilver he got hit by a bullet from behind. He couldn't see it coming and that can also explain why he died, but he was running towards bullets, some of which he could have gotten clipped by because they were still falling behind him after he passed. Or because he was running towards the bullets and wasn't worried about dodging all of them, save Clint and that kid. When you running towards something you increase the odds of it hitting you, and according to Neil DeGrasse Tyson that's why you get more wet when running in the rain then you do when walking in it.
This is why I love Terry Pratchett’s *Thief of Time.* The monks of Oi Dong can slice time to move more quickly, but there are hard limits on what their bodies can endure and how hard it becomes just to move through air. All of Discworld is wonderful, but this book is a particular gem.
Using logic to explain fiction is like putting mustard on a plastic hot-dog.
I agree with every point that you made except that last one about moving Hawkeye, it seems like he was shifted due to the wind speeding past him.
Also, something else to be noted was how he "moved" magneto or any other person at those crazy speeds. They too would require a crazy level of physical endurance.
Make a video explaining how it would look to realistically defeat specific speedsters.
Like for example, what would've been necessary to defeat X-Men's Quicksilver by the villains he faces
I'm going to defend MCU Quicksilver. Yes he can see bullets in slow motion but he gets tired throughout the final battle. It wouldn't be a stretch to say he gets slower throughout the battle. You even show a clip of him stopping to take a breather. He's already tired by the time he saves them and problem isn't even looking at the bullets coming at him and just in Hawkeye.
6:11, he was basically moving at the same speed as the bullet. Even if he can't dodge it, the bullet should not have the force to hurt him.
Bullet looks to be going quite a bit faster than him, and even then movie shit.
The one thing that can make something feel off, its the lack of consistancy.
When you apply a rule, show it and utilize it, you gotta make sure that the rule stays so we can stay immersed.
Originally, i thought quicksilvers' death in mcu made a little more sense because, for some reason, i remembered him pushing the car a short distance instead of grabbing Hawkeye
I was thinking the same after I saw the "one minute war" where superman literally just had time to ask "what the fuck is going on" while the speedsters had time for an entire war.
It’s called, super speed thinking, that’s why he can think as fast as he can run 💁
4:23 No it is shown & she’s the Phoenix at this point a being that can travel light years in moments in that movie
I spat out my juice at 5:55 😂😂
Good take. Nice job. I’ve been thinking somewhat of this to. Like how does he stop without a stopping distance. He obviously can halt physics. In that scen you cut in where he tackles Thor you can see how he grabs the rails to stop his own momentum to be able to turn. That detail was good. Otherwise he should 100% just smack into the wall.
I got one thing you probably didn’t notice about the kitchen scene. What does quick silver do before saving the day? He puts his earbuds in and listens to his music. Now that music has got to be playing as fast as he his so he can actually listen to it if not he would not have got to listen to it at all saving the day. So he’s must have a device to play his music super fast.
1:33 this is so true 0_o
Riding my motorbike in the rain is damn painful
The flash couldn’t freeze time against the guy with the freeze gun because he wasn’t experienced enough to do it
This doesn’t mean quicksilver is going at full speed
You hit the nail on the head 👍👍
You said they can bring him back in the multi verse, my boi quicksilver came back as craven
Speedsters are sick as Hell as a concept but they only ever truly lose in a couple of predictable ways:
Another speedster on their level outsmarts them.
The speedster's powers backfire, harmfully, against them.
They lose their powers during a critical moment.
The speedster limits themselves intentionally to prevent collateral damage, leaving them vulnerable.
.... that's pretty much it. They can't lose (reasonably), otherwise. That's why the inconsistencies HAVE to happen, otherwise plots within movies would entirely revolve around their weakened state of vulnerability, or they outright have to lose/die. MCU's Quicksilver absolutely got shafted HARD. They absolutely COULD NOT allow that character to exist beyond the movie he premiered in. There would be no stopping him. As for the FOX Quicksilver... well, you already pointed it all out so... haha.
And this is coming from a MASSIVE Flash fan. :D
at 6:03 where you ask how he gets shat there, well i think he just didnt pay attention
I completely agree but one thing you also have to consider for the mcu quicksilver is that bullets are pretty damn small and with a lot of rubble flying around thats not translucent like water drops it could be harder to differentiate bullets from slower wood chips or whatever
The only way to beat a speedster: the enemy gets plot convenience superspeed for a split-second
Nerfing has always been a thing in comics and movies. It will never make sense, because then many characters in Marvel/DC could never be defeated for one reason or the next. Not attempting to justify the absurdity, rather state the obvious. You have all these wildly different characters existing in the same world, and you have to make these characters relatively balanced in their abilities in order to tell a storyline, in most cases. You can stretch this series forever because it's always gonna be a thing as long as these adaptations are adopting unrealistic comic book characters and attempting to assimilate them in a semi-realistic universe where the stakes being high are intriguing and - if it their abilities were adopted to the letter - wouldn't make any real sense. Then again, these IP's are not even certain or consistent of their own characters powers/abilities. It's just make a character, and then when they have to face somebody else, take creative license to make it happen.
I agree with you! But on the other side, these kind of logical inconsistencies are all over both Marvel's and DC's films and cartoons...all the time IMHO
In the X-Files episode “Rush” part of how they found the speedsters was the burnt rubber left from their shoes. Quicksilver should need to replace his whole outfit every time he does this, those designer pants don’t look like they’d even withstand a regular 100m dash
He's not slowing time. He's accelerating himself.
He isn’t slowing down time he can just control how slow to perceive it
I never noticed that scene where Quicksilver dies after saving Hawkeye, that he shouldn't have been standing where he was after moving Hawkeye out of the way. I always weirdly looked at that scene that he should have been able to dodge or "deflect" the bullets like he did in the X-men movie. But again as you pointed out... If he was MOVING Hawkeye out of the line of fire, how or WHY was he standing in the open riddled with bullet holes? It no longer makes ANY sense to me.
Thank you for dedicating your time to editing this entire video to confirm two words: "Bad writing" 😁