Biggest issue with speedsters is writers just made them too fast to be interesting. A person that could run 150 mph would already be super powerful but for some reason writers made all speedsters go multiple times the speed of light for no reason.
Same principal with super strength and characters being able to crush mountains with their fingertips, next to impossible to create tension with that kind of power present
They could still pull it off if they just make it a tad bit more realistic. Like for example, there is a bomb somewhere in the building and it's already going off, flash could have just pulled out the civilians but oops, he's too fast! I mean imagine what kind of pressure would a person who is carried multiple times the speed of sound experience. Like even trained pilots with gear black out for a few moments and now imagine what would happen to your normal human. The same goes for super strength, they can't be using one hundred percent of their strength all the time because it would just kill their villains and heroes don't do that
They make claims of the characters running at lightspeed only to never showcase this feat, and have them get beaten the same way all other speedsters do - with a "prediction".
It’s always funny when Omni Man makes a dig at superspeed being a lame power because RR is the only reason they lasted as long as they did, saved immortal AND War Woman and forced Nolan to take him out first. Obviously he went for Immortal first because he thought he was strongest, and War Woman as second, but Red Rush forced him to rethink his plan immediately
Yeah, given the damage that The Immortal and War Woman could deal to him, the Guardians would have won if Red Rush kept playing defense instead of going on the offensive.
@@mikhaelgribkov4117Dude, seriously? The show literally shows Nolan's mixed feelings about his situation in hindsight. The fight scene between him and Mark goes to great lengths to show Nolan's emotional state, him and Mark literally have a three minute conversation dedicated to trying to sway Mark. Did you just not watch the show?
@@andyroobrick-a-brack9355 the thing is: comic just does it plain better. Show does cheap us flashback to make any sense of how this piece of shit will not kill his son while in the comic everything about Nolan after murder of Guardians just screamed "I really don't wanna do it, but it is my duty" , in the comic he even raised his fist to kill Mark but just couldn't and started crying hard, unlike show which for some reason tries to downplay weight of his tears with one droplet. There's even little details and part of his origin in the first years on Earth during that fight that show fumbles. There's a lot of Nolan being plain more scummy during and before his fight that just don't follow his characterisation which made him sparing son make sense. Show Nolan is just plain psycho who flip flops, instead of dude who stuck between fascistic ideology and actual love for his family. Whole "Pathetic" line and him not helping Mark with Battle Beast is so not Nolan that it's baffling that people claim his writing is good and not confused mess of intentions.
A problem a lot of writers seem to have is differentiating between not being able to win and losing. When a speedster fights, something like a superman proxy, they shouldn’t be able to beat them in a fistfight because of the sheer difference in durability and strength but that doesn’t mean that they should just fold like flip chair.
he could run back in time, where he was a kid and steal his speed, boom superman is a statue now. that is the problem with this fight, the strongest punch of flash could make supes flinch (mass punch) but that is more a thing for the reverse flash
@@stripedgillette3580 that is literally a feat all speedforce Users have, but tied to how much speedforce the User has (or Just massively drugged Up and dies)
@@kaso236 I think they're saying that that shouldn't be a thing. Time travel is a very messy thing to deal with in stories at the best of times, so just casually giving that ability to your speedster characters is a recipe for disaster. Also as far as I'm aware speedforce is a DC thing, so it doesn't apply to all speedsters.
6:48 Omni-man has super speed. In a flashback in the first episode, hr tells Mark that Viltrumites have super speed. In the seventh (i believe) episode he uses it to rip a soldier/agent guy's arm off. All that is to say he grabbed Red Rush's arm at (in?) super speed. Red Rush did *not* die to bad writing
Ah yes, that explains how he was almost defeated by robots and characters that were throwing normal punches, besides if red rush was actually a competent hero he’d just punch omni man as many times as possible rather than running to him, standing still while punching, then running back away he could just spam punches
@@Pengin-yg1qxthe Reanimen weren’t even hurting Omni-Man, all they did was act as a temporary distraction. The only reason that he was being pushed around by them is because he was taken by surprise. But once he got his bearings he easily demolished them. Red Rush shouldn’t have even tried punching Omni-Man. He should have stuck to playing support like he was at the beginning of the fight when he was moving the other Guardians of the Globe out of Omni-Man’s way.
holy shit i just remember that fastest man alive died to a home alone boobie trap 😭 and the original injustice flash was one of the best characters. that chess match with superman is iconic and one of the best moments of comic history imo.
I think that people was ok with it ,because trapping fastest man alive by fear paralysis is too cool of an idea to get upset about , for most people. One of rhe most comon reaction to fesr is to freeze in place for a seccond after all.
@@nneykobar_hali flash shouldnt even be able to get hit by the gas, he can funnel it away or literally see it coming probably hours early in his perception
Superman is extremely modest. One point the Justice League confronted him about putting Kandor on Earth and said… “You realize you’re the most powerful person on Earth?” Superman - “Uh, I guess.” “Well now there’s 100 thousand of you and they don’t have your morality.”
The way you're describing it sounds like bad writing as well. Superman is well aware of his abilities and would normally never take such a risk with other Kryptonians being on Earth.
@@stansman5461 Mongul was able to sneak his way inside said Fortress and get Superman with a mindcontrol device without any noticable damage or setting off any alarms, and that's just one example. It is possible to break into the Fortress of Solitude, as it has been done before in most continuities. The risk is simply too great.
@@concept5631Nah, he’d do it, But make sure that they’re on a Planet that’s Far away from earth, actually Habitable and Near a star Like Earth’s for protection, or hell, Probably serve as it’s protector himself
Red Rush is the one thing that would scare me about getting speed powers, if it were possible to have them. You need your perception of time to match your speed, but if you can't control that, then you're practically locked out of human interaction because everyone is too slow for you.
@@somedudeintheinterweb8665 Small font? Nah. I would rather not mess with the font size. In fact, I don't see how the smaller font shows that she's talking fast. The dashes are there to show that she speaks as if all the words in her sentence are syllables in one big word. And having no spaces would be very confusing to read, so the dashes would separate the words while still giving the sense that Felicity is talking fast. At least dashes are very rare in a conversation. But if she has to say a word that is spelled with a dash, she would remove that dash. So she would call Spider-Man "Spiderman."
Nah, Red Rush did not die to bad writing. I mean you said it yourself, Omniman can move at incredible speeds and react to obstacles and control himself at those speeds. He's also very well established in the story as being a battle-hardened warrior with perhaps thousands of years of experience. He didn't 'react' to red rush's punch. He stood there, thinking, and anticipated it because he was the better fighter. He put his hand there to grab Red Rush's hand without seeing it, he just figured it was coming. It was a gamble, a gamble that he was fast enough and experienced enough to make.
@@---....---- There is a speed difference, but they are both impossibly fast. It's not like Red Rush could take five and read one of nolan's books a while he watched him grab his hand. It was still fast enough that he couldn't stop it when he'd committed. In short, the fastest fighter doesn't always win, or instead of stepping into the ring boxers would go to the race track, or throw some punches into a radar gun and call it a day. Experience, strategy, endurance, Omniman beat Red Rush in every category to the point that their speed difference, which was already arguably small depending on how you judge it, couldn't bridge the gap.
@@AImighty_Loafomni man traveled so fast he destroyed a planet by igniting its atmosphere... I wanna see red rush do that and not go splat onto every object.
11:08 I disagree, the amount of times that superman got shot with explosives must be insane, criminals know normal bullets wont hurt him, but they think that an explosive would do something, so he just catches the explosives so no one gets hurt, because he knows he wont, he thought that explosive was a normal bomb, not kryptonite gas or whataver its called
@@sozius0 how should he know? he just fought him once and how should he know that batman succedeed to find an effective weapon against him? he could think that batman prepared himself, but why worry about it? he's the strongest person in earth, how would he lose a fight to a person that doesnt even have superpowers? he came to the fight not even with the intentions of fighting, because he tought he was untouchable and couldnt even lose the fight
If Superman is almost as fast as Flash, there is no reason why he should lose to anyone ever. He could drink a coffee, screw Batman in the ass, while that grenade is in the air.
The thing everyone forgets is that super speed requires super durability. At Mach 1 the surface of your skin would be boiling off. The air pressure would push your eyes out of your head and destroy your lungs, turbulence around your fingers and arms would cause them to flap around with enough force to break bones. A fist traveling at the speed of sound carries as much energy as 6 grams of TNT and releases it just as fast. At Mach 8000, that fist has a yield of a quarter ton of TNT. Speedster losing makes no sense in nearly every case.
Except this doesn't apply to DC speedsters who harness the speedforce. The speedforce allows the user to bend and manipulate the laws of physics to accomidate them. Essentially making the heat friction issue non existent to them along with them generating an aura that protects them even further.
@@legodcbricks3306under this logic, if the speedforce is making everything that enters its aura, safe, so that the speedster themselves are protected, WHY DOES IT deactivates the moment a foe throws a super punch, shoots a bullet or flings a blade at them? Why is the speedforce not used defensively to protect them from their environment every time they fight someone is beyond me. Its either actively A) Avoid the thing (often doing more to get out of the way than the realistic damage of what ever they are avoiding would do to begin with, - and still walk it off fine afterwards) Or 2) Die/lose to it. "Because speedforce" is always as much as an excuse for speedsters to do whatever as it is to loose to whatever. I can't take them seriously Edit: Spelling
Ultimates 2 is really cool about that, Quicksilver running faster than the speedster that he is fighting with while pushing her... Hurricane durability were less than Pietro has and burn her running faster than match 10.
Yep, and not only durability. They also would have to be super strong in order to accelerate themselves and their limbs that quickly. Also all the tissues in their bodies would have to deal with extreme forces/accelerations... Every single speedster would basically be superman.
The Apocalypse fight isn't well written *but* it is consistent within the film. Apocalypse's entire power set is he is the first mutant and effectively can adapt to all powers. So he adapts (the whole eye thing seen here and earlier in the film) so he can keep up. Is it extremely lackluster? Yes of course but it is internally consistent iirc
@@slkjvlkfsvnlsdfhgdght5447 That's the big problem. The issue isn't with Apocalypse's power set, which is substantial. The issue is that Apoc himself is written inconsistently and is too easy to beat.
@@slkjvlkfsvnlsdfhgdght5447 Good question! The fight isn't written well and this extends to the rest of the film (in my opinion). Shame as it's an interesting premise.
It seems to me like the reason why everyone is afraid of Homelander isn’t just his power. It’s him being a complete nuthead, hanging one inch from going full psycho mode. He’s terrifying as a person, and that adds up with his powers. On the topic of the video - it is good. Just. Solid. Good. You deserve more views with content like that.
Homelander is a nutcase, loose canon, OP, but will spend time bantering with Butcher for no good reason instead of killing him on sight, several times over. Butcher is only alive due to bad inconsistent writing.
@@mathewomolo Bro did not watch Season 3 episode 1. In it, Homelander explicitly lays out why he doesn't want to kill Butcher- butcher's both a useful tool for him to gain power as well as someone he feels a connection to
@@PengyDraws and that's not the problem. the problem is that Homelander is tactical, wise, considerate and well-planned when dealing with Butcher and Butcher only. But the writers forget this and make him a complete nutcase, loose canon , consequences and nuanced be damned when they need him to kill indiscriminately. and remind us just how swift and ruthless he can be. He'll punch anyone's head off but not Butcher and his gang, for them he has to come up with a plan, that eventually fails..
What would A-Train do against him anyway? He can't really hurt him. If he tried, then Homelander could go out and murder everybody who ever meant anything to him. His public image would get destroyed. His career would be over. He'd be considered a super villain.
@@mathewomoloI think he is what he is, a complete nut case. If he wanted he could have killed butcher in an instance but knows his potential and sees him as the only foe that could mess with him. If I am correct that are most psychopaths and considering Homelander is on the brink becoming one does show that he can. Most people he have killed are either his stupidity (eg. The plane sequence) or his ego. The most recognised scenes in homlander is about the man's ego being hurt and he just think7ng about killing the whole crowd but can't due to the fact that it may hurt his image.
This is a fundamental problem with speedsters, not writers, their powers are just too OP. They need enhanced reflexes to not immediately go splat, but this also makes them able to just teleport and lounge around while in a fight. It makes any loss, regardless of how well written it is, seem lame.
Speedsters only lose to bad writing, but if speedsters never lose, it's bad writing. It's a Catch 22. Personally I'm a fan of Fall of Doc Future. Mostly it works because it doesn't focus on fight scenes.
Completely agree. To be more specific, it's a problem with overpowered plot devices in general, this includes truth serum, mind reading, mind control, omnipotence, clairvoyance, etc. Once you introduce it to the universe, the inevitable questions come; "Why didn't you use it that time or that other time or that other time?". Then you have to make excuses like interference on why you cannot use it.
10:13 the way I see this scene is that berry is running so fast that even if the alien missed by a millisecond, he would be fast enough to catch up to the projectile and hit him
I think the movie also makes him out to be still inexperienced with his powers, and when he starts running really fast trying to build up speed, he starts to slip out the ability to react quickly. At 10:12 I feel like that's close to what Barry's seeing.
@@nathaniel201nah i feel like this happens alot with speeders . moving incredibly fast means they are in perfect control, but fail to take in the other factors like their possible mental state or their experience with dealing with the threat, sure they might be able to see and react in time but that doesn’t mean its going to go exactly to plan. especially with someone still figuring out their powers. it could be as simple as “oh i see that laserbeam coming but i gotta keep moving i can probably outrun it” or vise versa. red rush was definitely caught off guard when his teammate and supposed “friend”tried taking out the rest of his teammates and friends. not to mention the fact, while hes still trying to figure out why omni man is doing this, hes gotta look out for his teammates who may or may not also be traitors cause he has no idea whats going. While omni man had his plan cooking from the very beginning.
@@NashTheInsomniac they are superheroes if they are focused on the why he is doing it they are not focused on defending themselves and are already at a disadvantage. We are talking about heroes that in universe are some of the most experienced people in the world when it comes to fighting extreme threatens to believe they would be focusing on the why is to let omniman win. I'm not saying they can't be shocked by it, but its probably/most likely not the first time they were betrayed by someone they trusted I mean it is a very common trope in superhero media. Look no further than spiderman a good chunk of his rogues gallery in both modern and original era spiderman are people directly in Peter's life and most of these betrayals happen earlyish in his career and in fact the ones that happen later have a lower impact on him psychologically in the moment (in other words he learned how to focus on the here and now and realized you can always investigate after the threat is over and in fact when you are in an emotional state and your life is on the line focus on the immediate danger}.
The issue with flash vs Superman is just that the scaling between them is always inconsistent. Sometimes superman can like fully keep up with proper speedsters, sometimes it takes him like an hour of flash time to finish a sentence.
Well that is just an adaptation difference. As presented in the DCEU it is perfectly possible for Superman to beat the Flash like he does. The issue is that Superman with that ability can't reasonably lose to Batman, which he also does.
@@Paul-bs5wl The one consistency about comic books is that they're inconsistent lol, sometimes superman is as fast as flash, sometimes the flash perceives time so fast that even superman seems frozen.
the three fastest times recorded by dc superheroes is superman flash and green lantern. so yes they should be around same speed altho lanterns dont have the same reaction speed just travel speed@@nutmegdoesstuff1339
@@dissraps Barry is more than capable of being fast enough to make even Superman seem like he's standing still. Barry isn't the fastest speedster but he's often regarded as probably the second most powerful/fastest speedster after Wally. And in all honesty, any speedster powered by the speedforce should not be losing a fight to Superman. Superman has all of these overpowered abilities and one of them is his speed. But a speedsters entire ability is speed, and if we're talking about speedsters powered by the speedforce then they're being powered by a force of nature of the universe. Superman just gets his powers because his biology allows his cells to absorb sun radiation unlike normal humans. Barry, Wally, Thawne, etc, should effectively make Superman look like a complete joke. In a fight or a race. Hell just take Wally: Faster than instant teleportation, faster than the speedforce itself, outran death itself by running to a point in the universe where death ceased to exist as a concept, etc. He could make Superman seem like he's standing still for months.
No way man. You dropped the ball on that last part. Superman wasn't afraid of the explosive, he had no knowledge it was kryptonite. He had no idea kryptonite even exists so he just caught expecting the worst that could happen would just be an explosion that wouldn't even faze him. It ended up being something entirely new. Imagine showering, you have no fear, but then all of sudden the water gets replaced by acid.
omni man was reading him. He realized that red rush always attacked his blind spot, then set up a false blind spot for him to trap Red Rush. Because of his perceptive ability, it was possible for him to capitalize on it.
@@ahobbyist9520 yeah, and in the show he couldn't dodge a batarang that he was looking at, and if he could perceive that fast, why not move around the field that fast so that the others can't hit him and he doesn't get sneak attacked? Why have your cake and eat it too?
We see in invincible season 2, Mark so fast he can turn off a light and return to the spot he's being held by Amber without her knowing it or injuring her. So, Omniman definitely is a to some degree speedster since he has all same powers as Mark. Red Rush is faster than Omniman for sure, but he's vastly outclassed everywhere else. Red Rush needed focus on defense instead of attacking Omniman. If he did that, his team might have survived. (or some of them anyways.) Nolan clearly was tracking Red Rush and anticipating his attack when he counters it. He would been hard pressed to focus on catching Red Rush if he was waiting till his teammates were engaging, but when he attempted to attack Omniman alone, he allowed Nolan to put all his attention on him. His speed advantage was not big enough for him to avoid Nolan forever on his own. Nolan makes it a point to grab him and hold him till he died because he knew he could have potentially gotten away otherwise. The Immortal, Martian man, and War Woman probably could done enough damage to Nolan to bring him down if Red Rush just prevented the would be death blows from landing as he did at the start of the fight. I wouldn't call this bad writing in anycase, as Nolan is far more experienced and more powerful than Red Rush overall, that it makes total sense Nolan could lay a hand on him if he came at him. Red Rush has probably never fought anyone like Nolan, while Nolan probably battled someone like him before in his battles across the centuries. Obviously, this was Nolan's ambush, so he had a better scope of what was happening than the guardians did and a clear plan of just killing them all. They were likely holding back and off balance for most of the fight. This all translated to them losing and dying to Omniman, despite Nolan being put in the hospital for a bit for his troubles.
I think red rush losing to Omni-man isn’t just cause the plot demanded it. Omni-man is shown to be super fast with him destroying a planet in seconds and when red rush saved the immortal Omni-man still seemed to move pretty fast to him. Omni-man has super good senses with him instantly knowing where invisible soldiers were so he could likely sense what direction red rush would come from even if he couldn’t see him. Also the guardians of the globe were initially holding back since they though Omni man was being controlled. Omni mans may not have the same combat speed as red rush but definitely has the reaction speed to be able to keep up.
@@AStoryteller-for-fun No. The other supes are human level speed. If you are even just as fast as sound, you'd have seven seconds to react for every one second they have to attack. If we assume each combatant is around the same level of skill and has similar perception, this means you'll never get hit, because they cannot combine their speeds to adjust to you being seven times as fast.
Why not? Dude READ HIM. He hit him few times, and Omni Man read him. Maybe if Red Rush varied his attacks more, or was less predictable he would've won, but we're talking Omni Man who is a warrior with decades of experience.@@stupidgey3949
I think the thing that constantly gets lost in translation with MCU Quicksilver is that he DID move Hawkeye behind the car; Hawkeye and sacrificial-lamb-child were in the middle of the road before Ultron shoots, and then after Quicksilver is shot they are behind the car. He didn't run and body-catch those rounds, which is how the scene reads visually, but he did still die to silly writing, because he shoved them behind the car and didn't take cover himself; like, maybe he got shot mid-run, but then surely Hawkeye and lamb-child would have a couple rounds in them too.
Pietro's death was so dumb. Must be the result of two studios fighting for the rights of the characters. Honestly, Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver being the mutant children of Magneto should have had Fox holding exclusive rights to them. If Marvel sold off a bunch of characters and the MCU is made up of the characters they had left or what was returned to them, shared rights don't make any sense. So Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver were Avengers in the comics? So was Spider-Man, Wolverine, Storm, Deadpool, Daredevil, every member of the Fantastic Four, and many other heroes that Marvel Studios didn't have the rights to in Phase 1.
They should have let energy come into play, doesn't Flash have to eat some paste in the comics because his speed takes so much energy, they should've done something like that. After all that fighting, saving the kid and Hawkeye uses up all of his energy so his basically some tired guy.
@@channel45853 Did Pietro move Hawkeye behind the car? Because if he did already moved Hawkeye, it was a waste of energy to run back out and not to mention very stupid to stand there and take the shots.
@SeanWheeler100 he moved them and was hit by the bullets while moving them. This scene isn't bad writing. The bullets are way faster than normal bullets and during the process of saving them he got shot. Makes perfect sense
@@whynot7507 as I pointed out, though, why was Quicksilver the only one that got shot, then? He was riddled with bullet holes. The long-and-short of that scene was that Quicksilver died because the screenplay needed someone to die for dramatic tension, and they spent the whole movie making you expect it to be Hawkeye only for the bait-and-switch. Not the worst writing, granted, but still that scene was visually confusing to preserve the shock value of Quicksilver dying without contributing to the logic of HOW. Honestly, would have liked one of those overused minute-inside sequences to show just what went wrong.
Actually for Omni man makes sense, he is fast yes not the fastest like red rush, but he has super speed, in the fight it was said they try to stop him to understand what happens, Nolan was trying to understand how much output to put in he's speed so he can catch red rush, again he is not in he's level but he is fast he can pull off stuff last moment and it happened many times, it was even better explanation in the spoiler alert. Mark goes back in time (it gets cancelled as he wants to go back in he's time so everything he did on this timeline went for nothing as nothing changed. In the new timeline Mark informs the Group of omni man plan and that was when Nolan couldn't do anything on red rush the moment Omni man tried to do something Red rush stopped him and because red rush went all out Omni man could not catch him off guard.
I think the fact that he still almost dies to big monster or to the robots makes it clear that Omni man does not have super speed. I will say, the fact that he grabbed his forearm might be a nitpick because stuff like that happens everywhere in media (like omni man catching imortal's fist) but the problem is that he even caught him at all. Maybe theres some explenation in the comics but the show isn't the comics.
@@RSG200 I'm also gonna disagree with that in the comic that monster and the robots were never there against Omni man, and yes he has when mark one day found he's parents in the act of doing it Omni man used he's super speed and clothed both him and he's wife, cleaned up the room and he went in a sitting position with he's wife all in super speed, and mark realized they did it as he wore with he's wife the wrong the shirts in the inside out.
@@zeropen0719 dude the video isn't about the comics. Its about the tv show. They are seperate continuities. I didn't say red rush in the comic died to bad writing. I said the one in the tv show did.
When omniman looked left he got hit right, when he looked right he got hit left. He recognized the pattern and grabbed left after looking right. The fact that he caught it on the back pull is still a testament to RR speed. I also think it prevents it from being bad writing. Omni used his smarts to close the gaps on their speed. Unlike in quicksilver who just gets grabbed mid sprint
As many people have pointed out, the Guardians weren’t going all out against Omni because they weren’t sure what was going on, until he started killing them, then they started to actually fight him. Omni is also extremely old and a hardened combatant against entire planets he’s conquered, I’m sure he’s gone up against speedsters at some point in his history, so he knows how to fight into them. His race is a completely combat driven society, so he’s been training since he was a child and now he’s considered a mature adult, by his races age scale. That’s like an MMA fight against a professional who’s trained since 11 and is now 30, against someone who just picked up BJJ and has only ever punched a bag, in terms of combat knowledge.
The problem is not that he could kill red rush, the problem is that red rush started punching him like a moron, red rush fought with him for years and had a good idea of how durable Nolan was, he should have known it would take hundreds if not thousands of punches to take him down (if his hands didn't turn to mush before that) so it makes no sense he would directly confront omni man when he can focus on defending those that can actually damage omni man like immortal and war woman and the worst part is that he was actually doing that in the beginning of the fight, that's literally how it starts, so there's no way to say he somehow just didn't think of that
@@Infinantnarwhals did you even read my comment? I put my entire thought process in there and why his actions make no sense, anyone with half a braincell can see that, when a character makes the most idiotic decision available even though he is supposed to be a veteran with all the information he needs to formulate a perfect plan, that's bad writing
@@Fortnitesexgamer69420or he could just be a pure support that keep everyone from being attack and also stunning Omni-man overtime instead of being a retard and let himself be an easy target for Omni-man
For Apokolipse, I would have made it to where he was adapting to Quick Silvers Speed, it severely damaged his retinas and brain to push himself that far but with his regenerative ability could have returned to somewhat to his normal state yet still weakened.
@@KonnRrr I'm not an expert on bodies and superpowers, but anything that Apokolipse uses to track Quicksilver should be damaged as he pushes himself to take out a speedster
@@KonnRrrBasically he's saying it would pretty much destroy his body to keep up with quicksilver and match him in reaction time and speed, which would give the other X-Men time to finish him off while he's trying to regenerate everything. Not a bad plot point honestly, and would really mesh with his status as the "strongest mutant".
9:15 Homelander, hilariously, is faster than A-Train Both by the series own account, as A-Train reaches 371 m/s with compound V while Homelander is shown flying at Mach 1.5, and also Homelander has better showings, with his outspeeding Butcher's bomb, and having the reaction speed to be able to grab him and take him outside before the explosion hits Butcher
Homelander can only do that while flying tough. We don't even know if he has speed react when doing these things, A-train went to the lockers, opened his bag, shot V up his arm, all in a second. You're right, Homelander is metrically faster, but I don't think it's a "freeze time" kind of speed, whereas A train actually is slowing time down, at least in his perception of events. So A train is still faster with his power.
@@Zinozad i was about to say the exact same thing. Homelander isn't a conventional speedster, he can't run or think at super speed, he only flies extremely fast. When he saved Butcher he probably did it by flying, not running.
Only with flight tho. Homelander also can't do stuff in superspeed. The only time he's fast is when he's flying. Homelander doesn't even fight at super speed
@@Zinozad Idk how to tag multiple people, so I will make the same reply four times lol But, in Diabolical (Homelander's backstory episode us canon) he uses super speed to disarm people, so he can act and think in super speed. Also, when he saved Butcher, he would need to react to grab Butcher. Granted, logically Butcher would die of whiplash no matter what LOL, but Homelander should at least react to grab him and not ram into him.
@@warmice16 Idk how to tag multiple people, so I will make the same reply four times lol But, in Diabolical (Homelander's backstory episode us canon) he uses super speed to disarm people, so he can act and think in super speed. Also, when he saved Butcher, he would need to react to grab Butcher. Granted, logically Butcher would die of whiplash no matter what LOL, but Homelander should at least react to grab him and not ram into him.
I think probably a reason why speedsters are written as sidekicks most of the time is because the general idea of speedster is usually that they're young and hyperactive (the word 'god' doesn't exactly come into mind, though it can), as their super speed would probably reflect. This is good, but when it comes to nerfing them it makes a lot of the excuses why they lose half assed most of the time.
@@SeanWheeler100Bumblebee from Transformers Animated, Dash from the Incredibles, Scout from TF2, Dyspo from Dragon Ball Super, etc. Sure, not all of these characters are exactly the same but they do share a few common traits like arrogance and hyperactiveness and are not really the center of their respective stories. Sure they might get a story or two focused on them but for the most part they're only one part of the equation.
@@markandrew287 Those guys are on teams. And Dyspo was on an enemy team in the Tournament of Power so he counts even less. What speedsters were the Robin kind of sidekick to a solo hero besides Kid Flash?
@@markandrew287 I think the reason many of them are sidekicks is because there's a general albeit somewhat childish conception that STRENGTH is what really makes a character powerful, while speed gets overlooked. Therefore the character with speed gets described as only relatively useful and not in pair with the most dangerous opponents.
I actually loved the Omni-man scene, it's clear throughout the series that Omni-man also has super speed, even though he's not as quick as Red Rush, and during the fight it's made very evident that Red Rush is really struggling to keep up with Omni-man's speed, strength, and durability. The same is true for A-train, it doesn't seem like he has speed react that keeps up with his speed, his first scene in the show shows that, and Kimiko is also an incredibly fast supe.
yeah if A-Train had speed react, the whole comic/show would have never happened because he would have never accidentally run through Hughie's girlfriend like a bug on his windshield.
There's the super speed that I feel would make your vision all blurry for a sec unless one of your superpowers happens to be Built In Dust-Proof Contact Lenses, and then there's the one with The Flash/QS that is them literally being able to perceive time differently. Unless they can turn it off and on, even adjust it so it's like, the speed of normal walking but weaving every bit of traffic and every pedestrian and causing no damage casually; percieving the fractions of fractions of fractions of fractions of seconds consrantly; that sounds like it would be HELL. So I go with that explanation for why every second doesn't feel like about 2 days. And also maybe handwave a tiny bit of the "They should be durable because of the physics and such that would literally rend them asunder" We have accepted lesser plot holes but, I guess some bs durability handwave likewise is fine because it's all fiction anyway 😹
Omni Man's reaction time is faster than his combat speed, he flies through space a incredible speeds and he bait red rush into that attack not to mention all those heroes were not truly going all out cause Nolan was a friend
don't that scene is a fucking trainwreck and non-existent fight choreography makes it even worse they decide to bring omni-man down and the alien ahs him restrained and they jsut throw wet noodle punches at his face like a bunch of drunkards
In this continuity, he has never experienced Kryptonite; it was experimented on with Zod's corpse, and Batman then stole it from Lexcorp, along with that information. He most likely thought it was a harmless (to him) explosive, and then when it emitted gas, just harmless (to him) gas, intending to let his durability tank it to show how futile fighting was and that they should, as he initially wants, talk it out.
Still, he could literally just immobilize or knock batman out at superspeed in a fraction of a second. It would be literally impossible for batman to react. If he wanted to kill batman, it would be even easier.
@@henriqueff1 Right. This fight only worked (sort of) because of the premise that Superman wasn't here to fight in the first place. Had he wanted Batman dead, or eve unconscious, this would have been over in seconds. Possibly milli-seconds. That said, Batman kind of baited Superman into not dodging the gas canister. He first used multiple weapons that were totally harmless to the flying brick before using the krypto-gas. Superman had no reason to think he had to dodge this one. The first time that is. So he just tanked it and breathed in the green smoke. The problem was Batman assuming he could even last long enough to pull off this trick.
Finally! It's the thing I've been waiting for for so long. Almost. You said "we don't know about the durability", well, actually we do. A person has to be very durable to not have his bone separated from flesh by suddenly dropping speed from hundreds/thousands of meters per second to zero in the matter of double digits microseconds (single digits milliseconds if we are generous). This is some serious durability (tens to hundreds thousands of g) right there.
Finally someone else saying what i've been saying about speedsters. If you can perceive in slow motion nothing should ever be able to hit you unless it moves so fast your slow motion can't slow it down enough. For a regular person to understand this watch a video from the slow mo guys and if something was moving that slowly would you be able to dodge it or react to it? Glad you also pointed out how OP superman is and why nothing batman does would ever give him a hope in hell of beating superman.
I mean guys superman is a speedster though. Ppl forget that, that's why batman realistically coild never beat superman with his reaction. I do like the scene with superman reacting to barry and him being shocked like awesome
@@silvertongue.242_99 Which is exactly how he lost to Batman. He didn't even know Kryptonite was a thing. He could splattered him before he ever got hit by that. He even said so.
To be honest, your point of view, is same to mine really, I wonder why how would they lose to that and well, I guess they still couldn't think of things that could stop them so they nerfed their, speed react/senses, time control even durability and well, great video btw
In defense of omni man, red rush got baited. Omni man noticed the pattern of getting punched on the opposite side of where he was looking, not to say he should've been caught but it's not out of the question.
@@SeanWheeler100Okay but when omniman is moving pretty damn fast that slow motion stops meaning much. You can see how much time his slow motion buys him when he pushes someone out of omniman's way at the start of the fight. He has like half a second at most of his slow motion time to react, very little.
That would help if Red Rush is two or three times as fast as Omni-Man. But if he's not a comparable speedster, faking someone out can only help so much when you're moving in super slow motion. That said, I've only seen the first episode and don't know the anti-feats. He did have a speed feat not involving Red Rush when he was playing catch with Mark. He can apparently move fast enough to catch a ball that only takes a few seconds to cross the world.
I believe human error is still a valid factor here. It’s certainly not the entire case and I do agree that speedsters are often written to be ludicrously fast for the sake of the visuals and then make them seem so much slower for the sake of plot. But there are three here instances where I have an argument in their defence. 1) MCU Quicksilver. As you said, his speeds are much slower than his fox counterpart (and much closer to his comic counterpart). And he’s not gonna be redirecting the bullets from the Quinjet, but he didn’t just put himself in front of Hawkeye and the kid. You say that he should have moved them out of the way, BUT THAT’S EXACTLY WHAT HE DID!! He was just caught in the line of fire as he did that (which was established as being possible earlier in the Sokovia battle) 2) Red Rush: I believe Superhuman reaction and superhuman speed are closely related but still different. Omni-man has been shown to be fast, and while he’s not reaching speedster levels, he can react closely to the speed (he just can’t maintain that kind of speed). Red Rush was definitely having an emotional response too, he was confused about why this hero, this friend was attacking them. So he rushed in and gave quick jabs to Omni-man who then saw the pattern in his movement and acted accordingly. 3) The Flash: During the battle scene, we see how Barry’s perception is warped as he gets to this speeds, as well as how he’s physically straining to build up and maintain the charge. He’s got tunnel vision, he’s struggling and focusing solely on this task and can’t pay attention to anything else because of he doesn’t then he’ll lose the charge and the world ends. Should he have paid more attention? Possibly. But the question is if he could? It’s always easy for anyone to critique on what someone should have done when it’s an outside perspective with none of the stress or split second responses needed
1. He relocated them, he should've been where they were, and there's no way he just pushed them out of the way, he's faster than those bullets, if he had time to control the power of his push, he had time to relocate them. 2. Red rush having an emotional response is all the more reason to just support his team and not attack and even if omni man can react fast, red rush should've still been able to dodge a hand slowly rising to grab his. Also it was established that red rush perceives fast therefore reacts fast, while omni man saw a discount batarang coming at him and he couldn't dodge it. 3. Making barry run around the field gathering energy is bad writing, he literally runs straight to cyborg in the end and he's gathered up all the energy he needs. And if you argue that that is because he's moving faster than the speed of light, why wasn't he straining or struggling there? That was way faster than his speed running around the field.
With the flash my issue was more the shot than him not dodging it. Like seriously how did a parademon make that shot. An argument could be made that it was a long beam of energy that was moving slow enough that the flash would run a full lap before its length passed through the point he was running past. And therefore he would always intersect with it. But then yeah the flash would see it and avoid it and it would likely not clip him on the back side but he'd be more running into it. Without that, the flash would not have to even dodge as the parademon just is not making that shot.
@@stupidgey3949 Legit. He was complaining about, "I can't keep this up Victor!" while running nowhere near the speed of light (from the regular bursts of light, you could pinpoint exactly when he completed one lap around the field, and that was nowhere close to light), then proceeds to casually run faster than light itself.
@@Ahglock I have no issues with him getting shot. It was an explosive bullet, not a beam of energy - it made a clanking sound upon impact. A bullet would still intersect him. You have to factor in that one, it's extremely dark outside, and two, he's focused on just gathering energy, looking straight forward, not sideways. There's no way he could have seen that coming. Seems like the bullet is quite fast too. Slightly slower or just as fast as he was going. Let me explain. You gotta look at the injury he sustained. Looked like it went about a whole inch deep, across half of his left side before Barry could move past it. If he was moving significantly faster than it, he'd have simply grazed the very tip of the shot on his first interaction, and more of the bullet on the next interactions. That sounds unbelievable though. It would mean he ran into the bullet several times before noticing it, which would make no sense. On top of that, the bullet would have been thrown off its course, due to the tip being pushed by a force perpendincularly, thus nullifying its forward force. Only thing that makes sense is that he was moving at about the same speed as the bullet. Also, he should have died from collapsing at such speed. As far as I know, he's just a regular human at the end of the day, and regular humans for sure aren't surviving falling off a vehicle at even 200km/h on a firm dirt road.
Really puts into perspective how OP speedsters are. Their only hard counters are time haxes, characters being able to react and fight at their speed while being able to tank their attacks, or other speedsters. Sure, you can be an absolute unit of a tank, but does not save you from getting juggled and outlasted by a speedster who could move incomprehensibly faster than your reaction speed and dodge all of your attacks.
I think A-Train is afraid of Homelander because of what he represents. He's the leader of the Seven and is seen by everyone as invincible, a God almost, so A-Train doesn't really have to confidence to go up against him. Perhaps in later seasons that could be explored, with Starlight and the Boys hyping him up to take on Homelander, because he *IS* strong, he just doesn't know it.
A-Train can only run in bursts so Homelander could wait him out. Also the fastest man alive stuff seems like it was pure marketing. Homelander could well be faster.
"Can A Train beat Homelander?", "Can Newman pop Homelander's head?", "Can that girl from Gen V convince him to kill himself?" Have the same answer: Maybe. But they're all too scared to find out
That, AND he literally has FREAKING LAZERS???? Idg how noone mentions this. Home lander has been shown to be reckless with his lazer, and if anything, is his go to move. He doesnt even need to be accurate, cause of how fast and big it is.
Good stuff, a really great decomposition. The way most writers define speedsters is really wage and sometimes causes many plot issues. Thank you for a vid.
Extremely well made video, you deserve more subcribers. I'd love to see you go in depth into CW flash, but even I know how stupid that is. I love the show, but in one of the episodes a girl was mad that she lost because she could read minds and predict the flash's movements, and flash's explanation was "I think at super speed" and not "I can kill you in 3,230,394,932 different ways before you could generate the neurons to form what would eventually be a body movement" it annoys the crap outa me sometimes.
Yeah i didn't go in depth because i figured everyone already knew he was written poorly. But i could still go in depth. I haven't seen flash since season 4 when it came out but i could maybe do a video on the newer seasons. But its soannoying because all the episodes are at least 40 minutes. Like damn
The thing about speedsters is they have to be super-strong and super-durable. A bullet doesn't kill you because it's heavy, but because it moves so fast. A fist moving that fast would be like being hit by a cannon. Just my running past your house at over the speed of sound would shatter your windows. Moving at 10% of light speed is the equivalent of a nuclear explosion. Yes, just by moving a human sized mass thought the atmosphere at that speed. The amount of kinetic energy is insane. Creating a logical interesting speedster is quite difficult and no one is doing them justice. Because either you have to disable their powers, have their powers be unactive or have another speedster as an enemy. Someone who can outrun bullets and explosions can only be hit by speedsters or lasers. And all you need to duck a laser is to stay out of their line of fire instead of waiting for someone to push the button while they do their evil monologue.
Another issue with the red rush fight is it shows he is doing running hay makers, he is not throwing jabs nor should he since omni man is not fast enough to react to them. But all of the sudden he stops in place to throw a jab slow enough for omni to react to.
I think a good example is Tracer from. She's pretty slow compared to these speedsters but her time accelerater helps her flash step around the battles like a speedster and can potentially rewind herself by a few seconds. The Cinematics show that she has good reflexes but timed traps can still hit her. Against Doomfist, it showed him trying to hit her but she's just too fast. So he pauses, he's thining and times where she's gonna jump to next because she's constantly hitting him from behind. So with priper timing, he was able to 1 shot her. This happens to her again against Sigma's trailer where he uses his scientist mind to recognize her movement pattern and correctly predict where she's going to be to 1 shot her. She's pretty fast, too fast to hit, but predictable enough to counter.
I assumed with the Omniman thing that his species could do little bursts of superspeed, just not unending like Red Rush. Like it's something that'd take great effort to pull off.
He can also fly at superspeeds but his power doesn't prevent explosions from slamming into atoms at that speed. So he can't use it in atmosphere. But I guess he can flex and move his arm at super-speed for a short distance. Which seems to be what he did. He most likely can't move like that all the time, or he'd just cause explosions.
I am just gonna say something about the case of Omniman. First, his powers got him the name Omniman. Second, Traveling galaxies in days is very very high speed, Third, its already stated that his perception is ALSO as fast as he is. In this case, its just like the Flash beating Zoom. Its just a case of who is the faster character, its as simple as that.
@@karaltar7914 of course I would Still don't change the fact other members of the guardians of the globe got hits in aswell, the only hit that make sense is when he was binded up
7:25 nah, if red rush was as fast as omniman they’d all get killed by a nuke. Red rush at full speed is to omniman, what regular people are to X-men quick silver. I’m not sure why omniman didn’t got all out against the guardians of the globe but omniman using his full strength makes the guardians of the globe look like new born babies.
I’d argue Omni-Man has a form of super speed but that he just doesn’t really use it outside the realm of flight. He stated in the show that flying is like flexing a muscle, the harder you flex the faster you go. Further more he doesn’t need much room to move his body at near light speed. As seen in the scuffle with Cecil. He grabs his tie before he can fully teleport away. Now working off of what Omni-Man said about it being like a muscle that means some part of the brain controls some biological organ responsible for Viltrumite flight in order for it to flex and unflex. So if his brain can control that undefined muscle-and-or-organ for flight and that organ is capable of manipulating the entire viltumite body we can justify his grabbing of Red Rushes arm by surmising that his speed in that scene was a manipulation of his arm via the flight organ in tandem with his natural strength rather than reaction time via solely the muscles in his shoulder and arm. TLDR Omni-Man’s flight muscle can manipulate his whole body so in the fight with RR he uses his flight muscles to manipulated the speed of his arm to catch RR. So Red Rush was killed not by bad writing but by being predictable in attack and underestimating his opponent. Now is that Lazy writing? Sure, but is it bad writing? Nah.
Doesn't actually matter if omni man can do that, red rush had hours to think this through, him just supporting his teammates was working iirc, if he just continued doing that, they would've won, doesn't take much time to think of that, but the writers made him attack anyways. It's still bad writing.
Also, he doesn't have fast perception, the moment that he registered he was punched, red rush should've been long gone, and even if he predicted the punch, he couldn't possibly have timed the grab down to the nanosecond if he doesn't have the perception.
@@TheStraightestWhitest fair-ish Cecil probably wasn’t operating the teleported at that point and since teleportation in the show as we’ve seen is near the speed of light (nigh-instantaneous). That means Cecil’s device he was wearing more than likely would’ve had some sensor in it to indicate danger and auto teleport (that or someone at the station was manning it). I will say it’s explainable but it does require the audience to take creative leaps. So in the world of writing yes it is bad as it’s the authors job to make complex things not only look cool but be understandable to the audience so in that regard it’s bad writing. But certainly not the worst writing the show has produced. Freaking Amber. Dawg never met a character more for these streets than Amber! Top ten most manipulative character of all time
The problem with red rush is it ignores that red rush's level of speed *requires* some form of durability that would put him at omniman's level. Omniman shouldn't be able to just man handle red rush like he does. Again, that's kind of the central conciet of speedsters always losing to bad writing, because it's almost always writing that doesn't take into account the fact that speedsters have to have more than just going fast to even be able to function without a single use of their powers atomizing them.
Ya, that one conclusion seemed like a stretch to me. It was clearly shown that RR had only slightly faster speed/reaction timing, with him making the saves at the last second. It is easy to conclude that a much more experienced and durable Omni man could predict, tank, then react and grab his punch. He can build up to moving at mach-living-nuke which gives him that reaction speed. Also, if I remember correctly, OM was nerfing himself to make the fight look like a struggle as an attempt to establish an unknown red harring.
@@quinnbojorquez5780the comics and the show are completely different, but let’s use your logic, any sonic (game, movie, tv shows) solos omni-man, luffy, Goku, saitama, the entire justice league, the entire avengers, thanos, etc because the Archie comics show him running across a thousand universes in a day
I'm surprised you brought up speedsters who lose to bad writing and didn't bring up "sonic the hedgehog" of all characters. He is the fastest thing in his universe, able to time travel and restart time just by running, yet characters like shadow, tails, and metal sonic are almost "just as fast as him", some characters are actual stated to be able to accelerate faster than sonic, but given his feats, he should be faster than everyone alas.
Probably because sonics power is basically natural. Meaning his DNA can be extracted, we saw this in the movie when the Eggman got a hair of the hedgehog and used it to accelerate his vehicle to sonic speed.
Whenever you move are you always moving at your top speed? No. Just because he *can* move faster than light doesn’t mean he’s always gonna run that fast. Especially around his friends who obviously don’t share his speed.
@@anomaly395 yeah but he definetly doesn't run faster than light, if he couldn't eggman or anybody else would pose no threat since he could just dismantle their machinery or kill them in nanoseconds
Pietro was defeaten three times because he skipt brain day Don't grab a weapon, when you're already poweful Step aside, you had almost a minute time Hide behind the car His stupidity was his biggest weakness
You need to be as careful as possible when creating a speedster. If you want to make stakes you need to either set a lot of limits on the power or up the power of your villains so they have at least a little superspeed to stay in the fight. One method is to have Superspeed as a base power like Strength and Durability (which basically every superhero ever has) then people who have proper superspeed are still very powerful but someone with good predictive abilities or enough skill has a hope against them. Or, just don't make characters who regularly break the light barrier.
I think Superman losing to Batman wasnt wrong. He was trying to talk to him and get him to help him at first instead of hurting him plus he didnt know that grenade was going to explode kryptonite smoke. He probably didnt even know he had a weakness up into that point so he just simply grabbed it not really caring.
You're wrong about the red rush and omni man fight, look at 6:24, while Omni man got a head start this scene clearly indicates that while red rush is significantly faster than Omni man it's not a completely ridiculous gap like you think. And then when Omni man catches redrush's hand he didn't match red rush's speed, Omni man realized that red rush hit him in the opposite side he was looking so he looked one way but got himself ready to catch red rush's hand. I thought all of this was pretty obvious personally but apparently not.
He could've just ran away and told Cecil or got everyone tf out of there. Bad writing . He just kept punching Nolan until Nolan Telegraphed him. Then once He grabs him by his head he aims for his most durable spot on his body, his chest, not his heart, nuts, Eye balls, or his dome. Which at that speed would've crushed Nolan's skull as he was spitting out blood just from the impact of RR punches on his lower body alone.
I agree for the most part but even if Omni man can predict where he is gonna hit him, that doesn’t stop red rush from noticing his wrists about to get caught. Like red rush could’ve pulled away anytime
Prediction by omniman works only provided: 1) red rush is blind atm and cannot counter counter (it is intended) actions by omni. 2) omni moves his hand IN ADVANCE and not as he react to the actual punch.
That's clearly the intention of the writers, the issue is that it's completely unreasonable. Sure, maybe you have trouble with this kind of visualization, but if you tried to animate the sequence, you wouldn't be able to get the grab to work without fudging the speed of one of the characters. Like in the clip, Red Rush's fist literally stops, and omniman 's hand flies in at a similar speed.
The flash without writers literally just sticks his hand in everyones chest and crushes their heart. Or fazes into whatever person he is fighting then vibrates that person molecules till they burst yall dont realize how op speedsters really are in dc without the writers
omni man baited red rush here7:00 which is why he was looking the other way anticipating a punch also whilst he dosnt move as fast as red rush(in combat) he could probably react to his attacks since he's faster than the immortal who reacted to red rush running at him (shocked) and whilst it hasnt happened in the show yet he flew to another planet in the virgo super cluster in a week so he must be able to react and perceive events at that speed
@@joshcoolzwit1364 because red rush sees everything in slow motion meaning he was just watching for like a minute as omni man slowly reached out his hand
@chill2235 the problem with an arguement like this is that omni man can move at pretty fast speeds and perceive them too. He's slower than red rush yes but he's fast enough to catch him off guard in the right situation. Red rush was also still in shock and processing what actually was wrong with omniman which ultimately helped omniman kill him. It's not just "the writers fucked this up!"
@@joshcoolzwit1364 perceive fast? He literally passed out after taking too many hits from non speedsters, you can't just make him fast enough to grab red rush but slow enough that the others can hit him. If he can perceive fast then he should've been moving around the field as fast as he can perceive so that the others can't hit him and that he can monitor everyone's positions.
This isn't even half of the bad writing for speedsters. There's also so many physics-related blunders that exist when dealing with high speeds that require absurd writing so they can make sense.
After a point I just have to shrug and say you're just reading bad if you ruin a story for yourself by trying to deconstruct the physics of barely-explained superpowers lol
bro what f = m*a we learned that in high school speed means super power and durability. if super speed was a thing it would be top of food chain no matter what, laser or bullet would be a joke to them. it is not matter of thinking or calculation. it is like saying if you hit someone with a knife they would bleed or if you drop off a building it would kill you. though i dont think about it because how stupid it is and just roll with it @@LuciusC
The only way to write a speedster in my opinion is to not give them the superhuman reflexes, or to have the psychological effects overwhelming. That way they either can't run faster than they can process information, or the idea of "Oh I'll run across the entire country" becomes a level of hell where they would be, to them, running for several months non-stop. Either that or deprive them of energy. Yoyo on Agents of Shield was a creative exception, since she was limited in range to only as fast as she can move in a single heartbeat from her original position; didn't make a lot of sense, mind you, but it kept her from being OP.
Another interesting speedster to think about is Metro Man. Just saying, he's possibly faster than the X-men quicksilver. He took an entire CHARACTER ARC's worth of time in a single moment.
I think you missed something about Omniman vs RR. For the way Omniman defeated RR he only needed half his speed at best and I think they did a very good job at showing that. If the speed shown was Omniman's perception he would not have taken this many hits before hew caught him.
Apocalypse probably raised the sand in the entire area around him and it cemented when Quicksilver ran through it. Although he forgot he can do this after.
9:02 "Sneaked" and "snuck" are both seen as valid past tenses of "sneak." In fact, for most of history, it was just "sneaked." "Snuck" is a relatively new invention, only showing up in the last hundred and fifty years or so. So you're actually using a form that would have been acceptable for a larger part of history! :D
Maybe the Bad Writers isn't when the Speedster lose but in how their abilities were depicted in the first place. For movies and TV directors love slow motions and thus love using Speedsters as an excuse to indulge in it, but what that often results in is their power presented less as them moving fast but as everything else being slowed down. And that should be complexly separate Super Power, that's Homura's super power in Madoka Magica. Super Speed should have obvious draw back, but the directors obsessions with depicted it as slow-mo mode erases those drawbacks. So yeah when I watched Apocalypse I was cringing when Quicksilver did everything' he did at the Mansion, not when he fell for exactly the kind of trap I feel super speed should absolutely be vulnerable to. But people tend assume the scene always be consider the mistake even trough good writers should have decided how they're gonna everything before the wrote the set ups.
"The one that controls time, controls everything". Fucking awesome phrase. I'm stealing it. On that dumb movie Dark Phoenix, they had to find a lame ass excuse to get Quicksilver out of the way, otherwise he'd solve everything. He tripped and was unconscious for the rest of the movie 🤣🤣🤣🤣
The thing that makes superspeed overpowered isnt anything inherent about the power itself, its how ridiculous the writers make it. When a character has super strength, on average theyll just be able to like lift a car, or something. 200-1000% of a normal human's strength usually. With speedsters, writers will always give them ridiculous speeds without considering the consequences for in-universe power scaling. Millions of times faster than an average person.
It's actually funny, because it's equivalent to time stop in function, but time stop is treated like the story breaking power it is, and for equivalently powerful super speed it's completely ignored.
I dunno, I loved quicksilver's writing (The x-men one). Of course, he was always a side character and was never meant to beat apocalypse, who, quite a few times already, has the ability to add effects via his generation of celestial energy including increasing his speed to levels that could match and even dwarf a speedsters. That is most likely what was happening with his pupils twitching and glowing blue. After realising he was facing a speedster, he needed to counter that by generating said energy and using it to increase his own speed. I don't think he lost to bad writing (personally), I just think it was the fact that he was facing an opponent who had cosmic levels of power and the only way to kill him was to use power on par/stronger than it (thus the phoenix force). He just simply had a bad matchup.
I feel like the proper counters to a speedster should be sneak attacks. Like in the Boys even if a speedster has super reactions, they can't see things happening behind them. If they're just sitting in a bar and someone shoots them from behind (preferably with a bullet moving faster than sound so that they can't hear it) then there should be nothing that they can really do about it. Ironically enough, people like Batman would actually be the perfect counter to a speedster, just not the way that they usually show him fighting, he'd have to go full ninja mode to avoid letting the speedster find him while attacking the speedster from angles they can't see. Another good potential counter is big AoE attacks. Obviously depending on what you're using the speedster might be able to run out of the blast faster than it can hurt them. But as an example I think a much better way to to write the Apocalypse scene would have been to do something like say fill the entire area around him with sludge so that when Quicksilver ran into it, he'd get stuck automatically. And even if QS saw it and avoided it, well now the entire area is sludge so he can't really run up to melee distance. Could also do things like darken the area to effectively blind everyone. Doesn't matter how fast your super reactions are if you can't see anything. At which point just a basic trap could catch him. The real problem with how speedsters are written though is that they never seem to want to use anything but their fists to fight lol. Like I can maybe buy Omniman being able to grab Red Rush in that circumstance. It clearly took him a few tries and he's basically a Superman Analogue. But the real question is even if we assume that to be possible, why the hell was Red Rush *ever* within Omniman's reach in the first place!? Surely you could deal far more damage by picking up like a rock and throwing it 100x faster than a bullet with your super speed. All while maintaining a safe distance that gives you more than plenty of time to dodge any kind of retaliation that Omniman could possibly try against you.
Sneak attacks should not work on a speedster unless it is specific that "Flash time" is a thing they have to turn on. If you perceive reality in such a way that you can react to movement at many times mach or light speed, any trap that could be sprung would take hours of speedster time to trigger, the only exceptions would be something like a laser tripwire that sets off a laser gun through an electrical signal with no intervening mechanical parts. AoE suffers from the same problem. Unless it itself is an attack with no windup and a large AoE that travels faster than the speedster themsevles. Really speedsters don't need weapons. A punch at mach 10 (very slow for a speedster) would easily destroy a human and if their bodies are durable enough to survive light speed stresses then no weapon they can carry is more durable than their body. If you threw a rock at speedster speeds it would vapourise in the atmosphere before it hit anything (like meteorites do in the much thinner upper atmosphere at much slower speeds)
@@Paul-bs5wlIf I see speedsters constsntly whipping their head back and forth sure, sneak attacks won't work, but they tend to not do that, so a bullet from behind will still impact because they cannot sense it before it does.
@@weaponizedemoticon1131 If they have a straight line in front of them they can immediately run in then maybe, though they'd still suffer more than a bruise because bullets don't leave bruises in general, there'd still be a shallow puncture wound and torn skin.
@@ayandragon2727 Or move their head forward and to the left. They just need to move about six inches in one direction or another to avoid a shot to the head.
Because Flash is just OP as f**k. He can literally END kryptonians and yet he is afraid of them. He can LITERALLY react to gun point blank. Speedforce LITERALLY gives him protection.
2:24 he has fucking insane strength, and he also has gravity and inertia manipulation. for more info, search why quicksilver is stronger than you think.
The problem with Red Rush in terms of writing was mainly poor strategy, he just shouldn't have attacked Omni Man at all. But Omni Man can be him in a hand to hand fight like that. Other than that it was really just about the visual representation, the whole scene was essentially slowed way down. Omni Man can actually move super fast in short bursts like that, though not like RR can. Even Mark performs speed/react feats like changing his clothes in the blink of an eye. My read on that scene isn't that he so much out-speeded RR, than that he was just a much better fighter that is also very fast. He was ready for the attack, knew RR's attack patterns, and had the speed necessary to act on his instincts. He didn't need to be faster than RR, just fast enough to get his hands on him when he knew he was coming.
Erm Nolan catching red Rush is a Feat for Nolan not bad Writing. Viltrumites can Travel across the Galaxy building up speed so that means they can react to thier own speed by focusing on it. Nolan catching red rush is akin to a human catchin a tennis Ball launched by a machine , difficult yes , impossible no. Also Superman didn't think Batman was a threat which is why he didn't react to the kryptonite , it was completely new to him , plus he always holds back. Superman constantly lowers his power and perception to live at a human level, so that's not bad writing.
I think the reason i would give superman a pass (and it would only be for the beginning of a fight) is that he's so used to being god, where the confidence lets him get struck by things unfamiliar to him. Such as, him catching an explosive in which he's normal invulnerable too, ended up being some random weird green dust. Essentially, element of surprise or lack of knowledge from supes
This is the perspective I have too. Speedsters not only lose to bad writing, but to the element of surprise. Red Rush was probably taken a back by the fact that someone was even able to react to him.
@@qwertydavid8070but it's different for red rush, he could see everything in slow motion and could've had more than enough time to calm himself down and retract his arm
Thoughts so far: Apocalypse - really is that fast. He has superhuman perception and all he needs to do is perceive Quicksilver to neutralize his abilities. However, the fact that he should have mopped the floor with the rest of the X-men (except maybe for Jean Grey) stands. Telekinetics/matter manipulators with enhanced perception are SCARY. Omni-man: It seems to me that the problem hear is less with bad writing regarding Red Rush and more with inconsistency regarding Omniman. The writers are treating his combat speed as superhuman, which maybe they shouldn't, but makes sense give that we know his perception is, at least. I do think it's possible to have speedsters lose to cleverness, and not just to bad writing. It would be really amazing to have some scenes of speedsters legitimately losing. Thoughts on how to do that include: having a house with the walls, floor and ceiling rigged all around with explosives. Have an infrared laser across the door. As soon as the speedster enters the building and starts moving up to rescue hostages, the signal goes to every explosive everywhere in the building all at once. A fast enough speedster MIGHT be able to get out, but it would be a heck of a good feat as the explosion closes in on you from all sides. Poison or drugs - obviously. Speedsters typically have an enhanced metabolic system as part of their power set, but this could work. Undetectable weapons: Any sort of ray or weapon that the speedster can't detect - and therefore can't respond to. You're never going to beat a speedster in a gunfight, but sniping them with something they can't detect coming should kill them. Other ways I'm sure I haven't thought of.
You got to A-Train and I thought "we're not ready for the stupid plotholes and plot contrivances of The Boys". Honestly, Butcher and the gang have the strongest plot armour in fiction history. Carry on.
I mean, you wouldn't've had 4 or 5 seasons of the show if it was realistic and they didn't have plot armor. Any protagonists needs a certain amount of plot armor for the plot to actually happen.
@@MamadNobari I actually think that better writing ciould explain why they're still alive. I'm okay with themm being alive for the plot but their reason for staying alive can't be "they caught Homelaner by surprise and black mailed him" . When we've been shown that Homelander kills first and asks questions later when he's dealing with anybody that ain't Butcher. Homelander is shown again and again to be hot-tempered and irrational and would rather deal with the consequences later, but not with Butcher, When Butcher is mere feet away from him, he has to weigh his options and 'be careful how he handles them' . come on.
@@mathewomolo I mean, you ask for an explanation from the plot and then immediately say that they did give you an explanation, but you just don't like it. I think they did a decent job of not using this plot armor too much and putting Homelander in situations where he's near the gang that much. And they realized they couldn't milk this armor any longer so they went ahead and gave the logical next step to the group with them having superpowers. It's true that Homelander has been shown to be hot-headed, but he's also really petty and cares about his image and the gang uses that to their advantage. I don't think it's that outrageous that they're still alive. And he also finally didn't even care about Butcher and tried to blast him with his laser eyes in episode 6, we're already past that point and they have to find new ways for it. Though I understand that it's obvious Homelander only tried to kill Butcher because he already has powers or the writers wouldn't've done that at all, and they could've written it to happen more naturally and not feel artificial and contrived. But I think they did their best with what they could've done anyway. It's really hard writing for these characters who are powerless facing a villain that can zap them in a blink and not have it feel plot-armory and contrived. Though the problems with the writing of the show really showed themselves with that last episode.
@@MamadNobari you make valid points. And it should be telling, how the story moves on from where it left. it could still work with the Guerilla tactics of Season 1 and 2. My problem with the show started when the writers elevated The Boys to literal face to face confrontation with essentially the evil Justice League. its the Batman V Superman trope of nerfing one character to make a head-on conflict believable but it just doesn't work in universe.
I think MCU Quicksilver gets a pass on everything because he's just straight up dumb, like his character is a kind of dumb guy. He might be super fast but he's too stupid to use it right lol
It's unrealistic within the world of Invincible, if Omni-Man can perceive things that fast then he should have the same troubles that Red Rush does when talking to normal people. Except Nolan doesn't... it's inconsistent.
I always say the most annoying thing to see in cartoons is barry or wally overwhelming a villain and the villain “predicts” where they’re going to be. Note that would make sense except for the fact that speedsters can experience the world in slow motion, so they will see that villain trying to hit them because usually that villain does not have super speed and is “predicting”
So someone pointed out when flash was running around building up speed, he would be moving so fast he would be everywhere in that circle. Then he’s focusing on building up speed, and side stepping could cause him to lose a lot of that speed
In defense of red rush at the start of the fight the guardians were convince Nolan wouldn’t do such a thing unless he was mind controlled or something so red rush was probably pulling his punches and with Nolan’s super senses and reflexes mixed with the fact that we still now don’t know the full extent of nolans powers if you’re only watching the show
If human beings can react fast enough to catch a fly between chopsticks, then we can comfortably scale up to omni man catchung red rush. There's more to a fight than statistics
He lost me at apocalypse even in the scene he used apocalypse could see quick silver even if he couldn’t out speed him so would it really be to much of a stretch to say out of the thousands of mutant powers he stole one would be fast enough to catch him
Well, It is hard to write a Speedster. Only if they mentioned that they perceived time as normal human being and only when activated then they can go Super speed then no one will bet an eye.
Super speed doesn’t have to be as overpowered as it is usually depicted, but writers can’t help but think write cool scenes that inevitably break internal consistency (See: Quicksilver). You’ve got to have the restraint to give a character super speed & never write “Time in a Bottle” style moments that essentially make them gods you’ll be forced to nerf or cheese later on
@@Gantaipao Yep, they could do this a couple of ways. Either he cannot react at super speed and only sees slow motion when he consciously activates it. Or they have it so that he can only react to things he can see. The first one allows non-speedster to completely get an edge and the second allows non-speedsters an exploit by staying out of the speedsters sight. If I were to write a speedster story, the speedster would not be able to exceed the speed of sound, I would restrict it.
Speedsters might sometimes lose to teleporters or certain non speed sensitive traps like certain types of glue traps. Most other ways that can be defeated are basically just waiting for them to mess up or be distracted.
If Red Rush just played support like he was at the start of the fight Omniman would have been stomped flat. If the OTHER Guardians had charged in when Red Rush was doing those weirdly slow punches Omniman wouldn't have had the time to predict and catch him.
![ลองสุ่มไอโฟน 990 โกงมั้ย? [ โกงมั้ยครับ ep.101 ] | DOM](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/bfsWe0j492k/mqdefault.jpg)
Biggest issue with speedsters is writers just made them too fast to be interesting. A person that could run 150 mph would already be super powerful but for some reason writers made all speedsters go multiple times the speed of light for no reason.
Same principal with super strength and characters being able to crush mountains with their fingertips, next to impossible to create tension with that kind of power present
They could still pull it off if they just make it a tad bit more realistic. Like for example, there is a bomb somewhere in the building and it's already going off, flash could have just pulled out the civilians but oops, he's too fast! I mean imagine what kind of pressure would a person who is carried multiple times the speed of sound experience. Like even trained pilots with gear black out for a few moments and now imagine what would happen to your normal human. The same goes for super strength, they can't be using one hundred percent of their strength all the time because it would just kill their villains and heroes don't do that
@@Бобёр-ю8гthat won't work for Flash, the speed force work like an aura that he can envelope around civilians
@@tartatovsky true, I just used flash because he was the first speedster that came to my mind
They make claims of the characters running at lightspeed only to never showcase this feat, and have them get beaten the same way all other speedsters do - with a "prediction".
It’s always funny when Omni Man makes a dig at superspeed being a lame power because RR is the only reason they lasted as long as they did, saved immortal AND War Woman and forced Nolan to take him out first. Obviously he went for Immortal first because he thought he was strongest, and War Woman as second, but Red Rush forced him to rethink his plan immediately
In the comic he killed him first, because in the comic he isn't one dimensinal moron and actually has second thoughts before fighting Mark.
Yeah, given the damage that The Immortal and War Woman could deal to him, the Guardians would have won if Red Rush kept playing defense instead of going on the offensive.
@@mikhaelgribkov4117Dude, seriously? The show literally shows Nolan's mixed feelings about his situation in hindsight. The fight scene between him and Mark goes to great lengths to show Nolan's emotional state, him and Mark literally have a three minute conversation dedicated to trying to sway Mark. Did you just not watch the show?
@@andyroobrick-a-brack9355 the thing is: comic just does it plain better. Show does cheap us flashback to make any sense of how this piece of shit will not kill his son while in the comic everything about Nolan after murder of Guardians just screamed "I really don't wanna do it, but it is my duty" , in the comic he even raised his fist to kill Mark but just couldn't and started crying hard, unlike show which for some reason tries to downplay weight of his tears with one droplet. There's even little details and part of his origin in the first years on Earth during that fight that show fumbles. There's a lot of Nolan being plain more scummy during and before his fight that just don't follow his characterisation which made him sparing son make sense. Show Nolan is just plain psycho who flip flops, instead of dude who stuck between fascistic ideology and actual love for his family. Whole "Pathetic" line and him not helping Mark with Battle Beast is so not Nolan that it's baffling that people claim his writing is good and not confused mess of intentions.
@@andyroobrick-a-brack9355 exactly
A problem a lot of writers seem to have is differentiating between not being able to win and losing. When a speedster fights, something like a superman proxy, they shouldn’t be able to beat them in a fistfight because of the sheer difference in durability and strength but that doesn’t mean that they should just fold like flip chair.
Facts, the difference there is vital. Not enough writers are able to differentiate, I agree
he could run back in time, where he was a kid and steal his speed, boom superman is a statue now. that is the problem with this fight, the strongest punch of flash could make supes flinch (mass punch) but that is more a thing for the reverse flash
@@kaso236 Then simply don't give your speedster the ability to casually time travel.
Or any character, really.
@@stripedgillette3580 that is literally a feat all speedforce Users have, but tied to how much speedforce the User has (or Just massively drugged Up and dies)
@@kaso236 I think they're saying that that shouldn't be a thing. Time travel is a very messy thing to deal with in stories at the best of times, so just casually giving that ability to your speedster characters is a recipe for disaster.
Also as far as I'm aware speedforce is a DC thing, so it doesn't apply to all speedsters.
“Speed is power. Have you ever been kicked at the speed of light”?
-Kizaru, One Piece
The slowest speed of light ever, but yeah lol
Don't move a muscle, Kizaru
- Ben Beckman
6:48 Omni-man has super speed. In a flashback in the first episode, hr tells Mark that Viltrumites have super speed. In the seventh (i believe) episode he uses it to rip a soldier/agent guy's arm off. All that is to say he grabbed Red Rush's arm at (in?) super speed. Red Rush did *not* die to bad writing
Nah he still did because he should have seen the reaction and been more proactive especially being a speedster on his level 😊
Proof:
Season 1 episode 1 at 16 minutes 07 seconds.
Season 1 episode 7 at 22 minutes 14 seconds
@@yuttorres2896 now we are arguing which speedster is more speedster?
Ah yes, that explains how he was almost defeated by robots and characters that were throwing normal punches, besides if red rush was actually a competent hero he’d just punch omni man as many times as possible rather than running to him, standing still while punching, then running back away he could just spam punches
@@Pengin-yg1qxthe Reanimen weren’t even hurting Omni-Man, all they did was act as a temporary distraction. The only reason that he was being pushed around by them is because he was taken by surprise. But once he got his bearings he easily demolished them.
Red Rush shouldn’t have even tried punching Omni-Man. He should have stuck to playing support like he was at the beginning of the fight when he was moving the other Guardians of the Globe out of Omni-Man’s way.
There should've been Flash from the Injustice movie. Never had speedster lost to bad writing so hard.
holy shit i just remember that fastest man alive died to a home alone boobie trap 😭 and the original injustice flash was one of the best characters. that chess match with superman is iconic and one of the best moments of comic history imo.
@@yimpyoi9808 the worst part is that NOBODY cares about him dying.
@@goj1_lag00nlmao for real nightwing death is the only one acknowledge
I think that people was ok with it ,because trapping fastest man alive by fear paralysis is too cool of an idea to get upset about , for most people.
One of rhe most comon reaction to fesr is to freeze in place for a seccond after all.
@@nneykobar_hali flash shouldnt even be able to get hit by the gas, he can funnel it away or literally see it coming probably hours early in his perception
Superman is extremely modest.
One point the Justice League confronted him about putting Kandor on Earth and said…
“You realize you’re the most powerful person on Earth?”
Superman - “Uh, I guess.”
“Well now there’s 100 thousand of you and they don’t have your morality.”
The way you're describing it sounds like bad writing as well.
Superman is well aware of his abilities and would normally never take such a risk with other Kryptonians being on Earth.
isnt sups vastly stronger than the average kryptonian?
@@concept5631but Kandor, the city of Kryptonian, is ok earth. It's in his fortress of solitude.
@@stansman5461 Mongul was able to sneak his way inside said Fortress and get Superman with a mindcontrol device without any noticable damage or setting off any alarms, and that's just one example.
It is possible to break into the Fortress of Solitude, as it has been done before in most continuities. The risk is simply too great.
@@concept5631Nah, he’d do it, But make sure that they’re on a Planet that’s Far away from earth, actually Habitable and Near a star Like Earth’s for protection, or hell, Probably serve as it’s protector himself
Red Rush is the one thing that would scare me about getting speed powers, if it were possible to have them. You need your perception of time to match your speed, but if you can't control that, then you're practically locked out of human interaction because everyone is too slow for you.
When I introduce the Speedstress in my books, I'm going to write her lines with dashes instead of spaces to show how fast she talks.
You have to suspend your disbelief when you play with Speedsters. It's obvious your brain and flesh would just boil at that speed.
@@SeanWheeler100 That's an interesting character trait but sounds like it would get very annoying to read imo
@@SeanWheeler100and you could make some words there really small too, to sell the point
@@somedudeintheinterweb8665 Small font? Nah. I would rather not mess with the font size. In fact, I don't see how the smaller font shows that she's talking fast. The dashes are there to show that she speaks as if all the words in her sentence are syllables in one big word. And having no spaces would be very confusing to read, so the dashes would separate the words while still giving the sense that Felicity is talking fast. At least dashes are very rare in a conversation. But if she has to say a word that is spelled with a dash, she would remove that dash. So she would call Spider-Man "Spiderman."
Nah, Red Rush did not die to bad writing. I mean you said it yourself, Omniman can move at incredible speeds and react to obstacles and control himself at those speeds. He's also very well established in the story as being a battle-hardened warrior with perhaps thousands of years of experience. He didn't 'react' to red rush's punch. He stood there, thinking, and anticipated it because he was the better fighter. He put his hand there to grab Red Rush's hand without seeing it, he just figured it was coming. It was a gamble, a gamble that he was fast enough and experienced enough to make.
so red rush saw omni man slowly gamble his fist onto his hand?
@@---....---- There is a speed difference, but they are both impossibly fast. It's not like Red Rush could take five and read one of nolan's books a while he watched him grab his hand. It was still fast enough that he couldn't stop it when he'd committed. In short, the fastest fighter doesn't always win, or instead of stepping into the ring boxers would go to the race track, or throw some punches into a radar gun and call it a day. Experience, strategy, endurance, Omniman beat Red Rush in every category to the point that their speed difference, which was already arguably small depending on how you judge it, couldn't bridge the gap.
@@---....----okay he saw it. Omniman was still fast enough to grab him before he could pull away fast enough
@@AImighty_Loafomni man traveled so fast he destroyed a planet by igniting its atmosphere... I wanna see red rush do that and not go splat onto every object.
well put, alot of time when i fight in game, i anticipate the attack before i dodge it. lots of hours in league of legends :)
11:08 I disagree, the amount of times that superman got shot with explosives must be insane, criminals know normal bullets wont hurt him, but they think that an explosive would do something, so he just catches the explosives so no one gets hurt, because he knows he wont, he thought that explosive was a normal bomb, not kryptonite gas or whataver its called
But there's a significant difference that he's fighting batman and he should know that batman has prepared to fight him and is using that in action.
@@sozius0 how should he know? he just fought him once and how should he know that batman succedeed to find an effective weapon against him? he could think that batman prepared himself, but why worry about it? he's the strongest person in earth, how would he lose a fight to a person that doesnt even have superpowers? he came to the fight not even with the intentions of fighting, because he tought he was untouchable and couldnt even lose the fight
@@sozius0 its impossible to know what anyone would do with only having 1 battle prior
If Superman is almost as fast as Flash, there is no reason why he should lose to anyone ever. He could drink a coffee, screw Batman in the ass, while that grenade is in the air.
@@sozius0 Even if he knew Batman well, how could he have predicted tools that he probably hadn't faced up until that point?
The thing everyone forgets is that super speed requires super durability. At Mach 1 the surface of your skin would be boiling off. The air pressure would push your eyes out of your head and destroy your lungs, turbulence around your fingers and arms would cause them to flap around with enough force to break bones. A fist traveling at the speed of sound carries as much energy as 6 grams of TNT and releases it just as fast.
At Mach 8000, that fist has a yield of a quarter ton of TNT.
Speedster losing makes no sense in nearly every case.
Except this doesn't apply to DC speedsters who harness the speedforce. The speedforce allows the user to bend and manipulate the laws of physics to accomidate them. Essentially making the heat friction issue non existent to them along with them generating an aura that protects them even further.
that's called plot armor @@legodcbricks3306
@@legodcbricks3306under this logic, if the speedforce is making everything that enters its aura, safe, so that the speedster themselves are protected, WHY DOES IT deactivates the moment a foe throws a super punch, shoots a bullet or flings a blade at them?
Why is the speedforce not used defensively to protect them from their environment every time they fight someone is beyond me.
Its either actively
A) Avoid the thing (often doing more to get out of the way than the realistic damage of what ever they are avoiding would do to begin with, - and still walk it off fine afterwards)
Or
2) Die/lose to it.
"Because speedforce" is always as much as an excuse for speedsters to do whatever as it is to loose to whatever.
I can't take them seriously
Edit: Spelling
Ultimates 2 is really cool about that, Quicksilver running faster than the speedster that he is fighting with while pushing her... Hurricane durability were less than Pietro has and burn her running faster than match 10.
Yep, and not only durability. They also would have to be super strong in order to accelerate themselves and their limbs that quickly. Also all the tissues in their bodies would have to deal with extreme forces/accelerations... Every single speedster would basically be superman.
The Apocalypse fight isn't well written *but* it is consistent within the film. Apocalypse's entire power set is he is the first mutant and effectively can adapt to all powers. So he adapts (the whole eye thing seen here and earlier in the film) so he can keep up.
Is it extremely lackluster? Yes of course but it is internally consistent iirc
then why doesn't he just insta-kill all the other x men?
@@slkjvlkfsvnlsdfhgdght5447 That's the big problem. The issue isn't with Apocalypse's power set, which is substantial. The issue is that Apoc himself is written inconsistently and is too easy to beat.
@@slkjvlkfsvnlsdfhgdght5447because it takes time and you fight like 7 dudes at the same moment
@@slkjvlkfsvnlsdfhgdght5447 Good question! The fight isn't written well and this extends to the rest of the film (in my opinion). Shame as it's an interesting premise.
he likes toying with them, and he also wants to convert them, not kill them@@slkjvlkfsvnlsdfhgdght5447
It seems to me like the reason why everyone is afraid of Homelander isn’t just his power. It’s him being a complete nuthead, hanging one inch from going full psycho mode. He’s terrifying as a person, and that adds up with his powers.
On the topic of the video - it is good. Just. Solid. Good. You deserve more views with content like that.
Homelander is a nutcase, loose canon, OP, but will spend time bantering with Butcher for no good reason instead of killing him on sight, several times over.
Butcher is only alive due to bad inconsistent writing.
@@mathewomolo Bro did not watch Season 3 episode 1. In it, Homelander explicitly lays out why he doesn't want to kill Butcher- butcher's both a useful tool for him to gain power as well as someone he feels a connection to
@@PengyDraws and that's not the problem. the problem is that Homelander is tactical, wise, considerate and well-planned when dealing with Butcher and Butcher only. But the writers forget this and make him a complete nutcase, loose canon , consequences and nuanced be damned when they need him to kill indiscriminately. and remind us just how swift and ruthless he can be. He'll punch anyone's head off but not Butcher and his gang, for them he has to come up with a plan, that eventually fails..
What would A-Train do against him anyway? He can't really hurt him. If he tried, then Homelander could go out and murder everybody who ever meant anything to him. His public image would get destroyed. His career would be over. He'd be considered a super villain.
@@mathewomoloI think he is what he is, a complete nut case. If he wanted he could have killed butcher in an instance but knows his potential and sees him as the only foe that could mess with him. If I am correct that are most psychopaths and considering Homelander is on the brink becoming one does show that he can.
Most people he have killed are either his stupidity (eg. The plane sequence) or his ego. The most recognised scenes in homlander is about the man's ego being hurt and he just think7ng about killing the whole crowd but can't due to the fact that it may hurt his image.
This is a fundamental problem with speedsters, not writers, their powers are just too OP.
They need enhanced reflexes to not immediately go splat, but this also makes them able to just teleport and lounge around while in a fight.
It makes any loss, regardless of how well written it is, seem lame.
Speedsters only lose to bad writing, but if speedsters never lose, it's bad writing. It's a Catch 22.
Personally I'm a fan of Fall of Doc Future. Mostly it works because it doesn't focus on fight scenes.
Completely agree. To be more specific, it's a problem with overpowered plot devices in general, this includes truth serum, mind reading, mind control, omnipotence, clairvoyance, etc. Once you introduce it to the universe, the inevitable questions come; "Why didn't you use it that time or that other time or that other time?". Then you have to make excuses like interference on why you cannot use it.
10:13 the way I see this scene is that berry is running so fast that even if the alien missed by a millisecond, he would be fast enough to catch up to the projectile and hit him
Yeah i agree.
I think the movie also makes him out to be still inexperienced with his powers, and when he starts running really fast trying to build up speed, he starts to slip out the ability to react quickly. At 10:12 I feel like that's close to what Barry's seeing.
I think alien tech locked on him and he was too busy and didn't see it coming
@@nathaniel201nah i feel like this happens alot with speeders
. moving incredibly fast means they are in perfect control, but fail to take in the other factors like their possible mental state or their experience with dealing with the threat, sure they might be able to see and react in time but that doesn’t mean its going to go exactly to plan. especially with someone still figuring out their powers. it could be as simple as “oh i see that laserbeam coming but i gotta keep moving i can probably outrun it” or vise versa. red rush was definitely caught off guard when his teammate and supposed “friend”tried taking out the rest of his teammates and friends. not to mention the fact, while hes still trying to figure out why omni man is doing this, hes gotta look out for his teammates who may or may not also be traitors cause he has no idea whats going. While omni man had his plan cooking from the very beginning.
@@NashTheInsomniac they are superheroes if they are focused on the why he is doing it they are not focused on defending themselves and are already at a disadvantage. We are talking about heroes that in universe are some of the most experienced people in the world when it comes to fighting extreme threatens to believe they would be focusing on the why is to let omniman win. I'm not saying they can't be shocked by it, but its probably/most likely not the first time they were betrayed by someone they trusted I mean it is a very common trope in superhero media. Look no further than spiderman a good chunk of his rogues gallery in both modern and original era spiderman are people directly in Peter's life and most of these betrayals happen earlyish in his career and in fact the ones that happen later have a lower impact on him psychologically in the moment (in other words he learned how to focus on the here and now and realized you can always investigate after the threat is over and in fact when you are in an emotional state and your life is on the line focus on the immediate danger}.
The issue with flash vs Superman is just that the scaling between them is always inconsistent. Sometimes superman can like fully keep up with proper speedsters, sometimes it takes him like an hour of flash time to finish a sentence.
Well that is just an adaptation difference. As presented in the DCEU it is perfectly possible for Superman to beat the Flash like he does. The issue is that Superman with that ability can't reasonably lose to Batman, which he also does.
@@Paul-bs5wl The one consistency about comic books is that they're inconsistent lol, sometimes superman is as fast as flash, sometimes the flash perceives time so fast that even superman seems frozen.
the three fastest times recorded by dc superheroes is superman flash and green lantern. so yes they should be around same speed altho lanterns dont have the same reaction speed just travel speed@@nutmegdoesstuff1339
@@nutmegdoesstuff1339i mean there's multiple Flashes but no, Barry doesn't do that
@@dissraps Barry is more than capable of being fast enough to make even Superman seem like he's standing still. Barry isn't the fastest speedster but he's often regarded as probably the second most powerful/fastest speedster after Wally. And in all honesty, any speedster powered by the speedforce should not be losing a fight to Superman. Superman has all of these overpowered abilities and one of them is his speed. But a speedsters entire ability is speed, and if we're talking about speedsters powered by the speedforce then they're being powered by a force of nature of the universe. Superman just gets his powers because his biology allows his cells to absorb sun radiation unlike normal humans. Barry, Wally, Thawne, etc, should effectively make Superman look like a complete joke. In a fight or a race. Hell just take Wally: Faster than instant teleportation, faster than the speedforce itself, outran death itself by running to a point in the universe where death ceased to exist as a concept, etc. He could make Superman seem like he's standing still for months.
No way man. You dropped the ball on that last part. Superman wasn't afraid of the explosive, he had no knowledge it was kryptonite. He had no idea kryptonite even exists so he just caught expecting the worst that could happen would just be an explosion that wouldn't even faze him. It ended up being something entirely new. Imagine showering, you have no fear, but then all of sudden the water gets replaced by acid.
If it was entirely new, then how did Batman know it was a weakness to him?
@@Potato_Quality7 It was tested by Lex Luthor and Bruce stole that data. That's the point of the chase scene.
@@Potato_Quality7 It was tested on Zod's body, and Kryptonian objects
It was a joke bruh lol
Lets just ignore the fact that batman has two superpowers. Prep time and Plot armor
omni man was reading him. He realized that red rush always attacked his blind spot, then set up a false blind spot for him to trap Red Rush. Because of his perceptive ability, it was possible for him to capitalize on it.
This is about shows not comics, this wasn't in the show
@@farquarwion4324 what are you talking about? In the comics he just blitzes red rush
@@ahobbyist9520 yeah, and in the show he couldn't dodge a batarang that he was looking at, and if he could perceive that fast, why not move around the field that fast so that the others can't hit him and he doesn't get sneak attacked? Why have your cake and eat it too?
@@ahobbyist9520even if he predicted his move, red rush moving in super speed should have seen the hand coming and should be able to avoid it
@@stupidgey3949 I’m pretty sure at that point he didn’t think it would damage him, so he didn’t try to dodge it.
We see in invincible season 2, Mark so fast he can turn off a light and return to the spot he's being held by Amber without her knowing it or injuring her. So, Omniman definitely is a to some degree speedster since he has all same powers as Mark. Red Rush is faster than Omniman for sure, but he's vastly outclassed everywhere else. Red Rush needed focus on defense instead of attacking Omniman. If he did that, his team might have survived. (or some of them anyways.) Nolan clearly was tracking Red Rush and anticipating his attack when he counters it. He would been hard pressed to focus on catching Red Rush if he was waiting till his teammates were engaging, but when he attempted to attack Omniman alone, he allowed Nolan to put all his attention on him. His speed advantage was not big enough for him to avoid Nolan forever on his own. Nolan makes it a point to grab him and hold him till he died because he knew he could have potentially gotten away otherwise. The Immortal, Martian man, and War Woman probably could done enough damage to Nolan to bring him down if Red Rush just prevented the would be death blows from landing as he did at the start of the fight.
I wouldn't call this bad writing in anycase, as Nolan is far more experienced and more powerful than Red Rush overall, that it makes total sense Nolan could lay a hand on him if he came at him. Red Rush has probably never fought anyone like Nolan, while Nolan probably battled someone like him before in his battles across the centuries. Obviously, this was Nolan's ambush, so he had a better scope of what was happening than the guardians did and a clear plan of just killing them all. They were likely holding back and off balance for most of the fight. This all translated to them losing and dying to Omniman, despite Nolan being put in the hospital for a bit for his troubles.
Red Rush should've like broken his hand on Omni Mans face or something, thatd be slightly more believable
I think red rush losing to Omni-man isn’t just cause the plot demanded it. Omni-man is shown to be super fast with him destroying a planet in seconds and when red rush saved the immortal Omni-man still seemed to move pretty fast to him. Omni-man has super good senses with him instantly knowing where invisible soldiers were so he could likely sense what direction red rush would come from even if he couldn’t see him. Also the guardians of the globe were initially holding back since they though Omni man was being controlled. Omni mans may not have the same combat speed as red rush but definitely has the reaction speed to be able to keep up.
You cant just have him react to red rush but get hit by the others, that's why it's bad writing
@@stupidgey3949I mean even with good senses, anybody would be beaten badly if four people were fighting you.
@@AStoryteller-for-fun No. The other supes are human level speed. If you are even just as fast as sound, you'd have seven seconds to react for every one second they have to attack. If we assume each combatant is around the same level of skill and has similar perception, this means you'll never get hit, because they cannot combine their speeds to adjust to you being seven times as fast.
Why not? Dude READ HIM. He hit him few times, and Omni Man read him. Maybe if Red Rush varied his attacks more, or was less predictable he would've won, but we're talking Omni Man who is a warrior with decades of experience.@@stupidgey3949
@@TheStraightestWhitest Says who?
I think the thing that constantly gets lost in translation with MCU Quicksilver is that he DID move Hawkeye behind the car; Hawkeye and sacrificial-lamb-child were in the middle of the road before Ultron shoots, and then after Quicksilver is shot they are behind the car. He didn't run and body-catch those rounds, which is how the scene reads visually, but he did still die to silly writing, because he shoved them behind the car and didn't take cover himself; like, maybe he got shot mid-run, but then surely Hawkeye and lamb-child would have a couple rounds in them too.
Pietro's death was so dumb. Must be the result of two studios fighting for the rights of the characters.
Honestly, Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver being the mutant children of Magneto should have had Fox holding exclusive rights to them. If Marvel sold off a bunch of characters and the MCU is made up of the characters they had left or what was returned to them, shared rights don't make any sense. So Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver were Avengers in the comics? So was Spider-Man, Wolverine, Storm, Deadpool, Daredevil, every member of the Fantastic Four, and many other heroes that Marvel Studios didn't have the rights to in Phase 1.
They should have let energy come into play, doesn't Flash have to eat some paste in the comics because his speed takes so much energy, they should've done something like that.
After all that fighting, saving the kid and Hawkeye uses up all of his energy so his basically some tired guy.
@@channel45853 Did Pietro move Hawkeye behind the car? Because if he did already moved Hawkeye, it was a waste of energy to run back out and not to mention very stupid to stand there and take the shots.
@SeanWheeler100 he moved them and was hit by the bullets while moving them. This scene isn't bad writing. The bullets are way faster than normal bullets and during the process of saving them he got shot. Makes perfect sense
@@whynot7507 as I pointed out, though, why was Quicksilver the only one that got shot, then? He was riddled with bullet holes. The long-and-short of that scene was that Quicksilver died because the screenplay needed someone to die for dramatic tension, and they spent the whole movie making you expect it to be Hawkeye only for the bait-and-switch. Not the worst writing, granted, but still that scene was visually confusing to preserve the shock value of Quicksilver dying without contributing to the logic of HOW. Honestly, would have liked one of those overused minute-inside sequences to show just what went wrong.
Actually for Omni man makes sense, he is fast yes not the fastest like red rush, but he has super speed, in the fight it was said they try to stop him to understand what happens, Nolan was trying to understand how much output to put in he's speed so he can catch red rush, again he is not in he's level but he is fast he can pull off stuff last moment and it happened many times, it was even better explanation in the spoiler alert.
Mark goes back in time (it gets cancelled as he wants to go back in he's time so everything he did on this timeline went for nothing as nothing changed.
In the new timeline Mark informs the Group of omni man plan and that was when Nolan couldn't do anything on red rush the moment Omni man tried to do something Red rush stopped him and because red rush went all out Omni man could not catch him off guard.
I think the fact that he still almost dies to big monster or to the robots makes it clear that Omni man does not have super speed. I will say, the fact that he grabbed his forearm might be a nitpick because stuff like that happens everywhere in media (like omni man catching imortal's fist) but the problem is that he even caught him at all. Maybe theres some explenation in the comics but the show isn't the comics.
@@RSG200 I'm also gonna disagree with that in the comic that monster and the robots were never there against Omni man, and yes he has when mark one day found he's parents in the act of doing it Omni man used he's super speed and clothed both him and he's wife, cleaned up the room and he went in a sitting position with he's wife all in super speed, and mark realized they did it as he wore with he's wife the wrong the shirts in the inside out.
@@zeropen0719 dude the video isn't about the comics. Its about the tv show. They are seperate continuities. I didn't say red rush in the comic died to bad writing. I said the one in the tv show did.
@@RSG200 I mean it's an adaptation of it, or course stuff have changed but of course we can understand a base of it. Lol
@@zeropen0719I'm sorry, Omni Man did WHAT?!😨😂
When omniman looked left he got hit right, when he looked right he got hit left. He recognized the pattern and grabbed left after looking right. The fact that he caught it on the back pull is still a testament to RR speed. I also think it prevents it from being bad writing. Omni used his smarts to close the gaps on their speed. Unlike in quicksilver who just gets grabbed mid sprint
As many people have pointed out, the Guardians weren’t going all out against Omni because they weren’t sure what was going on, until he started killing them, then they started to actually fight him. Omni is also extremely old and a hardened combatant against entire planets he’s conquered, I’m sure he’s gone up against speedsters at some point in his history, so he knows how to fight into them. His race is a completely combat driven society, so he’s been training since he was a child and now he’s considered a mature adult, by his races age scale. That’s like an MMA fight against a professional who’s trained since 11 and is now 30, against someone who just picked up BJJ and has only ever punched a bag, in terms of combat knowledge.
The problem is not that he could kill red rush, the problem is that red rush started punching him like a moron, red rush fought with him for years and had a good idea of how durable Nolan was, he should have known it would take hundreds if not thousands of punches to take him down (if his hands didn't turn to mush before that) so it makes no sense he would directly confront omni man when he can focus on defending those that can actually damage omni man like immortal and war woman and the worst part is that he was actually doing that in the beginning of the fight, that's literally how it starts, so there's no way to say he somehow just didn't think of that
@@hypercrow9563 this character didn’t react how I would react so it’s bad writing. lmao, get a better argument
@@Infinantnarwhals did you even read my comment? I put my entire thought process in there and why his actions make no sense, anyone with half a braincell can see that, when a character makes the most idiotic decision available even though he is supposed to be a veteran with all the information he needs to formulate a perfect plan, that's bad writing
@@hypercrow9563He attacks him, thus causing him to be stunned, thus meaning that he can't hurt anyone else.
@@Fortnitesexgamer69420or he could just be a pure support that keep everyone from being attack and also stunning Omni-man overtime instead of being a retard and let himself be an easy target for Omni-man
For Apokolipse, I would have made it to where he was adapting to Quick Silvers Speed, it severely damaged his retinas and brain to push himself that far but with his regenerative ability could have returned to somewhat to his normal state yet still weakened.
That doesn’t make sense 💀 how does retinas have anything to do with it
@@KonnRrr I'm not an expert on bodies and superpowers, but anything that Apokolipse uses to track Quicksilver should be damaged as he pushes himself to take out a speedster
@@tremel7336 huh
@@KonnRrr ?
@@KonnRrrBasically he's saying it would pretty much destroy his body to keep up with quicksilver and match him in reaction time and speed, which would give the other X-Men time to finish him off while he's trying to regenerate everything. Not a bad plot point honestly, and would really mesh with his status as the "strongest mutant".
9:15
Homelander, hilariously, is faster than A-Train
Both by the series own account, as A-Train reaches 371 m/s with compound V while Homelander is shown flying at Mach 1.5, and also Homelander has better showings, with his outspeeding Butcher's bomb, and having the reaction speed to be able to grab him and take him outside before the explosion hits Butcher
Homelander can only do that while flying tough. We don't even know if he has speed react when doing these things, A-train went to the lockers, opened his bag, shot V up his arm, all in a second.
You're right, Homelander is metrically faster, but I don't think it's a "freeze time" kind of speed, whereas A train actually is slowing time down, at least in his perception of events. So A train is still faster with his power.
@@Zinozad i was about to say the exact same thing. Homelander isn't a conventional speedster, he can't run or think at super speed, he only flies extremely fast. When he saved Butcher he probably did it by flying, not running.
Only with flight tho. Homelander also can't do stuff in superspeed. The only time he's fast is when he's flying. Homelander doesn't even fight at super speed
@@Zinozad
Idk how to tag multiple people, so I will make the same reply four times lol
But, in Diabolical (Homelander's backstory episode us canon) he uses super speed to disarm people, so he can act and think in super speed.
Also, when he saved Butcher, he would need to react to grab Butcher. Granted, logically Butcher would die of whiplash no matter what LOL, but Homelander should at least react to grab him and not ram into him.
@@warmice16
Idk how to tag multiple people, so I will make the same reply four times lol
But, in Diabolical (Homelander's backstory episode us canon) he uses super speed to disarm people, so he can act and think in super speed.
Also, when he saved Butcher, he would need to react to grab Butcher. Granted, logically Butcher would die of whiplash no matter what LOL, but Homelander should at least react to grab him and not ram into him.
I think probably a reason why speedsters are written as sidekicks most of the time is because the general idea of speedster is usually that they're young and hyperactive (the word 'god' doesn't exactly come into mind, though it can), as their super speed would probably reflect. This is good, but when it comes to nerfing them it makes a lot of the excuses why they lose half assed most of the time.
When have speedsters been written as sidekicks besides The Flash's own sidekicks?
@@SeanWheeler100Bumblebee from Transformers Animated, Dash from the Incredibles, Scout from TF2, Dyspo from Dragon Ball Super, etc.
Sure, not all of these characters are exactly the same but they do share a few common traits like arrogance and hyperactiveness and are not really the center of their respective stories. Sure they might get a story or two focused on them but for the most part they're only one part of the equation.
@@markandrew287 Those guys are on teams. And Dyspo was on an enemy team in the Tournament of Power so he counts even less.
What speedsters were the Robin kind of sidekick to a solo hero besides Kid Flash?
@@markandrew287 I think the reason many of them are sidekicks is because there's a general albeit somewhat childish conception that STRENGTH is what really makes a character powerful, while speed gets overlooked. Therefore the character with speed gets described as only relatively useful and not in pair with the most dangerous opponents.
Alao one of the first if not the first speedsters in fiction: Jay Garrick in 1941
I read MCU Quicksilver’s death scene as him moving Hawkeye and the kid behind the car but taking bullets in the process.
Remember, Fellas: F=MA. If something's going fast enough, no matter how insignificant, or can still hit like a freight train. Theoretically.
I actually loved the Omni-man scene, it's clear throughout the series that Omni-man also has super speed, even though he's not as quick as Red Rush, and during the fight it's made very evident that Red Rush is really struggling to keep up with Omni-man's speed, strength, and durability.
The same is true for A-train, it doesn't seem like he has speed react that keeps up with his speed, his first scene in the show shows that, and Kimiko is also an incredibly fast supe.
yeah if A-Train had speed react, the whole comic/show would have never happened because he would have never accidentally run through Hughie's girlfriend like a bug on his windshield.
Actually A-train was on drugs at the moment so there are many ways he could miss that he's about to run into someone.
There's the super speed that I feel would make your vision all blurry for a sec unless one of your superpowers happens to be Built In Dust-Proof Contact Lenses, and then there's the one with The Flash/QS that is them literally being able to perceive time differently. Unless they can turn it off and on, even adjust it so it's like, the speed of normal walking but weaving every bit of traffic and every pedestrian and causing no damage casually; percieving the fractions of fractions of fractions of fractions of seconds consrantly; that sounds like it would be HELL. So I go with that explanation for why every second doesn't feel like about 2 days. And also maybe handwave a tiny bit of the "They should be durable because of the physics and such that would literally rend them asunder"
We have accepted lesser plot holes but, I guess some bs durability handwave likewise is fine because it's all fiction anyway 😹
A train was on doping drugs which only made his speed but not his reactions faster
he didn't need reactions, he used prediction.
Omni Man's reaction time is faster than his combat speed, he flies through space a incredible speeds and he bait red rush into that attack not to mention all those heroes were not truly going all out cause Nolan was a friend
He literally couldn't dodge a discount batarang that he saw coming
@@stupidgey3949couldn't...or didn't care to because he doubted anything darkwing could throw would even matter...
@@stupidgey3949 when? Vs the guardians he easily dodged 3 batarangs
don't
that scene is a fucking trainwreck and non-existent fight choreography makes it even worse
they decide to bring omni-man down and the alien ahs him restrained and they jsut throw wet noodle punches at his face like a bunch of drunkards
@@ryszakowy That doesn't make any fkning sense.
11:31 He probably thought it was just a bomb and wouldn't hurt him. Had he known it had kryptonite gas he would have dodged it.
My thoughts
In this continuity, he has never experienced Kryptonite; it was experimented on with Zod's corpse, and Batman then stole it from Lexcorp, along with that information. He most likely thought it was a harmless (to him) explosive, and then when it emitted gas, just harmless (to him) gas, intending to let his durability tank it to show how futile fighting was and that they should, as he initially wants, talk it out.
Still, he could literally just immobilize or knock batman out at superspeed in a fraction of a second. It would be literally impossible for batman to react. If he wanted to kill batman, it would be even easier.
@@henriqueff1 Right. This fight only worked (sort of) because of the premise that Superman wasn't here to fight in the first place.
Had he wanted Batman dead, or eve unconscious, this would have been over in seconds. Possibly milli-seconds.
That said, Batman kind of baited Superman into not dodging the gas canister. He first used multiple weapons that were totally harmless to the flying brick before using the krypto-gas. Superman had no reason to think he had to dodge this one. The first time that is. So he just tanked it and breathed in the green smoke.
The problem was Batman assuming he could even last long enough to pull off this trick.
If he knows Batman knows his weakness, he should be assuming anything covered in lead has kryptonite in it.
Finally! It's the thing I've been waiting for for so long. Almost. You said "we don't know about the durability", well, actually we do. A person has to be very durable to not have his bone separated from flesh by suddenly dropping speed from hundreds/thousands of meters per second to zero in the matter of double digits microseconds (single digits milliseconds if we are generous). This is some serious durability (tens to hundreds thousands of g) right there.
1:30 "My bad, y'all. There was somewhere to run."
Damn bro, you got the whole squad laughing
Finally someone else saying what i've been saying about speedsters. If you can perceive in slow motion nothing should ever be able to hit you unless it moves so fast your slow motion can't slow it down enough. For a regular person to understand this watch a video from the slow mo guys and if something was moving that slowly would you be able to dodge it or react to it?
Glad you also pointed out how OP superman is and why nothing batman does would ever give him a hope in hell of beating superman.
I mean guys superman is a speedster though. Ppl forget that, that's why batman realistically coild never beat superman with his reaction. I do like the scene with superman reacting to barry and him being shocked like awesome
In every story that has Superman vs a non powered human ,its always stupid, he just stands there as if he forgot he has super reflexes and perception
@@crisstoff89 true but I mean superman is invulnerable he usually use that defense first. If he doesn't see a threat
@@silvertongue.242_99 Which is exactly how he lost to Batman. He didn't even know Kryptonite was a thing. He could splattered him before he ever got hit by that. He even said so.
@@TheStraightestWhitest that's true it was the first superman is experiencing kryptonite
But Flash is still faster than Superman.
My 2 favorite representation of speedsters are as far as how it was executed in media are Dash in the incredibles and the chic from Eternals
They lose only to bad writing such as that guy so fast that he can pick bullets out air but still end up getting shot by a slow bullet.
"red rush died to bad writing" - some guy who don't know what omni man is capable of
To be honest, your point of view, is same to mine
really, I wonder why how would they lose to that
and well, I guess they still couldn't think of things that could stop them
so they nerfed their, speed react/senses, time control even durability
and well, great video btw
Exactly
In defense of omni man, red rush got baited. Omni man noticed the pattern of getting punched on the opposite side of where he was looking, not to say he should've been caught but it's not out of the question.
But if Red Rush sees everything in slow motion, he shouldn't have taken that bait.
@@SeanWheeler100Okay but when omniman is moving pretty damn fast that slow motion stops meaning much.
You can see how much time his slow motion buys him when he pushes someone out of omniman's way at the start of the fight.
He has like half a second at most of his slow motion time to react, very little.
That would help if Red Rush is two or three times as fast as Omni-Man. But if he's not a comparable speedster, faking someone out can only help so much when you're moving in super slow motion.
That said, I've only seen the first episode and don't know the anti-feats. He did have a speed feat not involving Red Rush when he was playing catch with Mark. He can apparently move fast enough to catch a ball that only takes a few seconds to cross the world.
I believe human error is still a valid factor here. It’s certainly not the entire case and I do agree that speedsters are often written to be ludicrously fast for the sake of the visuals and then make them seem so much slower for the sake of plot. But there are three here instances where I have an argument in their defence.
1) MCU Quicksilver. As you said, his speeds are much slower than his fox counterpart (and much closer to his comic counterpart). And he’s not gonna be redirecting the bullets from the Quinjet, but he didn’t just put himself in front of Hawkeye and the kid. You say that he should have moved them out of the way, BUT THAT’S EXACTLY WHAT HE DID!! He was just caught in the line of fire as he did that (which was established as being possible earlier in the Sokovia battle)
2) Red Rush: I believe Superhuman reaction and superhuman speed are closely related but still different. Omni-man has been shown to be fast, and while he’s not reaching speedster levels, he can react closely to the speed (he just can’t maintain that kind of speed). Red Rush was definitely having an emotional response too, he was confused about why this hero, this friend was attacking them. So he rushed in and gave quick jabs to Omni-man who then saw the pattern in his movement and acted accordingly.
3) The Flash: During the battle scene, we see how Barry’s perception is warped as he gets to this speeds, as well as how he’s physically straining to build up and maintain the charge. He’s got tunnel vision, he’s struggling and focusing solely on this task and can’t pay attention to anything else because of he doesn’t then he’ll lose the charge and the world ends. Should he have paid more attention? Possibly. But the question is if he could? It’s always easy for anyone to critique on what someone should have done when it’s an outside perspective with none of the stress or split second responses needed
1. He relocated them, he should've been where they were, and there's no way he just pushed them out of the way, he's faster than those bullets, if he had time to control the power of his push, he had time to relocate them.
2. Red rush having an emotional response is all the more reason to just support his team and not attack and even if omni man can react fast, red rush should've still been able to dodge a hand slowly rising to grab his. Also it was established that red rush perceives fast therefore reacts fast, while omni man saw a discount batarang coming at him and he couldn't dodge it.
3. Making barry run around the field gathering energy is bad writing, he literally runs straight to cyborg in the end and he's gathered up all the energy he needs. And if you argue that that is because he's moving faster than the speed of light, why wasn't he straining or struggling there? That was way faster than his speed running around the field.
With the flash my issue was more the shot than him not dodging it. Like seriously how did a parademon make that shot. An argument could be made that it was a long beam of energy that was moving slow enough that the flash would run a full lap before its length passed through the point he was running past. And therefore he would always intersect with it. But then yeah the flash would see it and avoid it and it would likely not clip him on the back side but he'd be more running into it. Without that, the flash would not have to even dodge as the parademon just is not making that shot.
@@stupidgey3949 Legit. He was complaining about, "I can't keep this up Victor!" while running nowhere near the speed of light (from the regular bursts of light, you could pinpoint exactly when he completed one lap around the field, and that was nowhere close to light), then proceeds to casually run faster than light itself.
@@Ahglock I have no issues with him getting shot. It was an explosive bullet, not a beam of energy - it made a clanking sound upon impact. A bullet would still intersect him. You have to factor in that one, it's extremely dark outside, and two, he's focused on just gathering energy, looking straight forward, not sideways. There's no way he could have seen that coming. Seems like the bullet is quite fast too. Slightly slower or just as fast as he was going. Let me explain. You gotta look at the injury he sustained. Looked like it went about a whole inch deep, across half of his left side before Barry could move past it.
If he was moving significantly faster than it, he'd have simply grazed the very tip of the shot on his first interaction, and more of the bullet on the next interactions. That sounds unbelievable though. It would mean he ran into the bullet several times before noticing it, which would make no sense. On top of that, the bullet would have been thrown off its course, due to the tip being pushed by a force perpendincularly, thus nullifying its forward force. Only thing that makes sense is that he was moving at about the same speed as the bullet.
Also, he should have died from collapsing at such speed. As far as I know, he's just a regular human at the end of the day, and regular humans for sure aren't surviving falling off a vehicle at even 200km/h on a firm dirt road.
“This is bullshit Omni man shouldn’t have caught red rush”
Viltrumite????
Really puts into perspective how OP speedsters are. Their only hard counters are time haxes, characters being able to react and fight at their speed while being able to tank their attacks, or other speedsters. Sure, you can be an absolute unit of a tank, but does not save you from getting juggled and outlasted by a speedster who could move incomprehensibly faster than your reaction speed and dodge all of your attacks.
Also sneak attacks and mental attacks would be possible, within certain limits at least.
I think A-Train is afraid of Homelander because of what he represents. He's the leader of the Seven and is seen by everyone as invincible, a God almost, so A-Train doesn't really have to confidence to go up against him.
Perhaps in later seasons that could be explored, with Starlight and the Boys hyping him up to take on Homelander, because he *IS* strong, he just doesn't know it.
A-Train can only run in bursts so Homelander could wait him out. Also the fastest man alive stuff seems like it was pure marketing. Homelander could well be faster.
@@thatchapthere At the very least he could catch him by surprise, like Hughie did in Season 3.
No bro homelander has super speed wach the boys animation siris last episode
"Can A Train beat Homelander?", "Can Newman pop Homelander's head?", "Can that girl from Gen V convince him to kill himself?" Have the same answer: Maybe. But they're all too scared to find out
That, AND he literally has FREAKING LAZERS???? Idg how noone mentions this. Home lander has been shown to be reckless with his lazer, and if anything, is his go to move. He doesnt even need to be accurate, cause of how fast and big it is.
Good stuff, a really great decomposition. The way most writers define speedsters is really wage and sometimes causes many plot issues. Thank you for a vid.
Extremely well made video, you deserve more subcribers. I'd love to see you go in depth into CW flash, but even I know how stupid that is. I love the show, but in one of the episodes a girl was mad that she lost because she could read minds and predict the flash's movements, and flash's explanation was "I think at super speed" and not "I can kill you in 3,230,394,932 different ways before you could generate the neurons to form what would eventually be a body movement" it annoys the crap outa me sometimes.
Yeah i didn't go in depth because i figured everyone already knew he was written poorly. But i could still go in depth. I haven't seen flash since season 4 when it came out but i could maybe do a video on the newer seasons. But its soannoying because all the episodes are at least 40 minutes. Like damn
The thing about speedsters is they have to be super-strong and super-durable. A bullet doesn't kill you because it's heavy, but because it moves so fast. A fist moving that fast would be like being hit by a cannon. Just my running past your house at over the speed of sound would shatter your windows. Moving at 10% of light speed is the equivalent of a nuclear explosion. Yes, just by moving a human sized mass thought the atmosphere at that speed. The amount of kinetic energy is insane.
Creating a logical interesting speedster is quite difficult and no one is doing them justice. Because either you have to disable their powers, have their powers be unactive or have another speedster as an enemy. Someone who can outrun bullets and explosions can only be hit by speedsters or lasers. And all you need to duck a laser is to stay out of their line of fire instead of waiting for someone to push the button while they do their evil monologue.
Another issue with the red rush fight is it shows he is doing running hay makers, he is not throwing jabs nor should he since omni man is not fast enough to react to them. But all of the sudden he stops in place to throw a jab slow enough for omni to react to.
I think a good example is Tracer from. She's pretty slow compared to these speedsters but her time accelerater helps her flash step around the battles like a speedster and can potentially rewind herself by a few seconds.
The Cinematics show that she has good reflexes but timed traps can still hit her.
Against Doomfist, it showed him trying to hit her but she's just too fast. So he pauses, he's thining and times where she's gonna jump to next because she's constantly hitting him from behind. So with priper timing, he was able to 1 shot her.
This happens to her again against Sigma's trailer where he uses his scientist mind to recognize her movement pattern and correctly predict where she's going to be to 1 shot her.
She's pretty fast, too fast to hit, but predictable enough to counter.
she's also got a giant weak point in the middle of her chest
She has a very limited form of super speed. Which is probably the best way to do it.
I assumed with the Omniman thing that his species could do little bursts of superspeed, just not unending like Red Rush. Like it's something that'd take great effort to pull off.
Considering he describes it as a muscle that has to be flexed, that would make a whole lot of sense.
He can also fly at superspeeds but his power doesn't prevent explosions from slamming into atoms at that speed. So he can't use it in atmosphere. But I guess he can flex and move his arm at super-speed for a short distance. Which seems to be what he did. He most likely can't move like that all the time, or he'd just cause explosions.
he doesn't react to the punch, he predicts it
I am just gonna say something about the case of Omniman. First, his powers got him the name Omniman. Second, Traveling galaxies in days is very very high speed, Third, its already stated that his perception is ALSO as fast as he is. In this case, its just like the Flash beating Zoom. Its just a case of who is the faster character, its as simple as that.
Agreed.
Yet he got hit with a discount baterang he was coming 💀
@@attackcrash655if someone threw a pebble at you would you care enough to try and dodge it?
@@karaltar7914 of course I would
Still don't change the fact other members of the guardians of the globe got hits in aswell, the only hit that make sense is when he was binded up
Where is that stated 😂😂😂😂😂
Whats even funnier is how the bullets went through a car and not a fleshy body
7:25 nah, if red rush was as fast as omniman they’d all get killed by a nuke. Red rush at full speed is to omniman, what regular people are to X-men quick silver. I’m not sure why omniman didn’t got all out against the guardians of the globe but omniman using his full strength makes the guardians of the globe look like new born babies.
I’d argue Omni-Man has a form of super speed but that he just doesn’t really use it outside the realm of flight. He stated in the show that flying is like flexing a muscle, the harder you flex the faster you go. Further more he doesn’t need much room to move his body at near light speed. As seen in the scuffle with Cecil. He grabs his tie before he can fully teleport away. Now working off of what Omni-Man said about it being like a muscle that means some part of the brain controls some biological organ responsible for Viltrumite flight in order for it to flex and unflex. So if his brain can control that undefined muscle-and-or-organ for flight and that organ is capable of manipulating the entire viltumite body we can justify his grabbing of Red Rushes arm by surmising that his speed in that scene was a manipulation of his arm via the flight organ in tandem with his natural strength rather than reaction time via solely the muscles in his shoulder and arm.
TLDR Omni-Man’s flight muscle can manipulate his whole body so in the fight with RR he uses his flight muscles to manipulated the speed of his arm to catch RR. So Red Rush was killed not by bad writing but by being predictable in attack and underestimating his opponent.
Now is that Lazy writing? Sure, but is it bad writing? Nah.
Doesn't actually matter if omni man can do that, red rush had hours to think this through, him just supporting his teammates was working iirc, if he just continued doing that, they would've won, doesn't take much time to think of that, but the writers made him attack anyways. It's still bad writing.
Also, he doesn't have fast perception, the moment that he registered he was punched, red rush should've been long gone, and even if he predicted the punch, he couldn't possibly have timed the grab down to the nanosecond if he doesn't have the perception.
@stupidgey3949 you cannot fly and change direction at those speeds without faster perception.
Omni-Man couldn't catch Cecil, dude. He's human speed, so he wouldn't have caught Red Rush. It's bad writing.
@@TheStraightestWhitest fair-ish Cecil probably wasn’t operating the teleported at that point and since teleportation in the show as we’ve seen is near the speed of light (nigh-instantaneous). That means Cecil’s device he was wearing more than likely would’ve had some sensor in it to indicate danger and auto teleport (that or someone at the station was manning it).
I will say it’s explainable but it does require the audience to take creative leaps. So in the world of writing yes it is bad as it’s the authors job to make complex things not only look cool but be understandable to the audience so in that regard it’s bad writing. But certainly not the worst writing the show has produced. Freaking Amber. Dawg never met a character more for these streets than Amber! Top ten most manipulative character of all time
I think the Red Rush thing isn't bad writing. You're just slightly underestimating how fast Omni Man also is.
I agree I read the comics and viltrumites are extremely powerful. Especially Omni man.
The problem with red rush is it ignores that red rush's level of speed *requires* some form of durability that would put him at omniman's level. Omniman shouldn't be able to just man handle red rush like he does. Again, that's kind of the central conciet of speedsters always losing to bad writing, because it's almost always writing that doesn't take into account the fact that speedsters have to have more than just going fast to even be able to function without a single use of their powers atomizing them.
No Omni just isn’t as fast as red rush in the show but oo
Ya, that one conclusion seemed like a stretch to me. It was clearly shown that RR had only slightly faster speed/reaction timing, with him making the saves at the last second. It is easy to conclude that a much more experienced and durable Omni man could predict, tank, then react and grab his punch. He can build up to moving at mach-living-nuke which gives him that reaction speed.
Also, if I remember correctly, OM was nerfing himself to make the fight look like a struggle as an attempt to establish an unknown red harring.
@@quinnbojorquez5780the comics and the show are completely different, but let’s use your logic, any sonic (game, movie, tv shows) solos omni-man, luffy, Goku, saitama, the entire justice league, the entire avengers, thanos, etc because the Archie comics show him running across a thousand universes in a day
I'm surprised you brought up speedsters who lose to bad writing and didn't bring up "sonic the hedgehog" of all characters.
He is the fastest thing in his universe, able to time travel and restart time just by running, yet characters like shadow, tails, and metal sonic are almost "just as fast as him", some characters are actual stated to be able to accelerate faster than sonic, but given his feats, he should be faster than everyone alas.
Probably because sonics power is basically natural. Meaning his DNA can be extracted, we saw this in the movie when the Eggman got a hair of the hedgehog and used it to accelerate his vehicle to sonic speed.
I wouldn't call time traveling one of his abilities since it's only used in one game
Isn't Sonic the speed of sound?
Whenever you move are you always moving at your top speed? No. Just because he *can* move faster than light doesn’t mean he’s always gonna run that fast. Especially around his friends who obviously don’t share his speed.
@@anomaly395 yeah but he definetly doesn't run faster than light, if he couldn't eggman or anybody else would pose no threat since he could just dismantle their machinery or kill them in nanoseconds
Pietro was defeaten three times because he skipt brain day
Don't grab a weapon, when you're already poweful
Step aside, you had almost a minute time
Hide behind the car
His stupidity was his biggest weakness
Bro why 1:43 ????
Im in my kitchen in my underwear making a sandwich at 1am and now this video is gonna wake my parents up 🥶
NOOO BRO YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND HE USED FUNNY PRON INTRO. WHY AREN'T YOU LAUGHING!1!1!!1!1!1!1
You need to be as careful as possible when creating a speedster. If you want to make stakes you need to either set a lot of limits on the power or up the power of your villains so they have at least a little superspeed to stay in the fight.
One method is to have Superspeed as a base power like Strength and Durability (which basically every superhero ever has) then people who have proper superspeed are still very powerful but someone with good predictive abilities or enough skill has a hope against them.
Or, just don't make characters who regularly break the light barrier.
3:30 your wrong apocalyptic dies to bad writing lol
I think Superman losing to Batman wasnt wrong. He was trying to talk to him and get him to help him at first instead of hurting him plus he didnt know that grenade was going to explode
kryptonite smoke. He probably didnt even know he had a weakness up into that point so he just simply grabbed it not really caring.
You're wrong about the red rush and omni man fight, look at 6:24, while Omni man got a head start this scene clearly indicates that while red rush is significantly faster than Omni man it's not a completely ridiculous gap like you think. And then when Omni man catches redrush's hand he didn't match red rush's speed, Omni man realized that red rush hit him in the opposite side he was looking so he looked one way but got himself ready to catch red rush's hand. I thought all of this was pretty obvious personally but apparently not.
He could've just ran away and told Cecil or got everyone tf out of there. Bad writing . He just kept punching Nolan until Nolan Telegraphed him. Then once He grabs him by his head he aims for his most durable spot on his body, his chest, not his heart, nuts, Eye balls, or his dome. Which at that speed would've crushed Nolan's skull as he was spitting out blood just from the impact of RR punches on his lower body alone.
I agree for the most part but even if Omni man can predict where he is gonna hit him, that doesn’t stop red rush from noticing his wrists about to get caught. Like red rush could’ve pulled away anytime
Prediction by omniman works only provided: 1) red rush is blind atm and cannot counter counter (it is intended) actions by omni. 2) omni moves his hand IN ADVANCE and not as he react to the actual punch.
That's clearly the intention of the writers, the issue is that it's completely unreasonable.
Sure, maybe you have trouble with this kind of visualization, but if you tried to animate the sequence, you wouldn't be able to get the grab to work without fudging the speed of one of the characters.
Like in the clip, Red Rush's fist literally stops, and omniman 's hand flies in at a similar speed.
The flash without writers literally just sticks his hand in everyones chest and crushes their heart. Or fazes into whatever person he is fighting then vibrates that person molecules till they burst yall dont realize how op speedsters really are in dc without the writers
omni man baited red rush here7:00 which is why he was looking the other way anticipating a punch also whilst he dosnt move as fast as red rush(in combat) he could probably react to his attacks since he's faster than the immortal who reacted to red rush running at him (shocked) and whilst it hasnt happened in the show yet he flew to another planet in the virgo super cluster in a week so he must be able to react and perceive events at that speed
Nice one
Yea I didn't understand why he thought red rush lost to writing.
@@joshcoolzwit1364 because red rush sees everything in slow motion meaning he was just watching for like a minute as omni man slowly reached out his hand
@chill2235 the problem with an arguement like this is that omni man can move at pretty fast speeds and perceive them too. He's slower than red rush yes but he's fast enough to catch him off guard in the right situation. Red rush was also still in shock and processing what actually was wrong with omniman which ultimately helped omniman kill him. It's not just "the writers fucked this up!"
@@joshcoolzwit1364 perceive fast? He literally passed out after taking too many hits from non speedsters, you can't just make him fast enough to grab red rush but slow enough that the others can hit him. If he can perceive fast then he should've been moving around the field as fast as he can perceive so that the others can't hit him and that he can monitor everyone's positions.
This isn't even half of the bad writing for speedsters. There's also so many physics-related blunders that exist when dealing with high speeds that require absurd writing so they can make sense.
After a point I just have to shrug and say you're just reading bad if you ruin a story for yourself by trying to deconstruct the physics of barely-explained superpowers lol
@@LuciusCat least dc has the speedforce and stuff that protects speedsters from the physics of it
@@LuciusC I know right they want to argue about bad writing without proper reading comprehension skills, boy do I love media literacy
bro what f = m*a we learned that in high school speed means super power and durability. if super speed was a thing it would be top of food chain no matter what, laser or bullet would be a joke to them. it is not matter of thinking or calculation. it is like saying if you hit someone with a knife they would bleed or if you drop off a building it would kill you. though i dont think about it because how stupid it is and just roll with it @@LuciusC
The only way to write a speedster in my opinion is to not give them the superhuman reflexes, or to have the psychological effects overwhelming. That way they either can't run faster than they can process information, or the idea of "Oh I'll run across the entire country" becomes a level of hell where they would be, to them, running for several months non-stop. Either that or deprive them of energy. Yoyo on Agents of Shield was a creative exception, since she was limited in range to only as fast as she can move in a single heartbeat from her original position; didn't make a lot of sense, mind you, but it kept her from being OP.
I really liked Yoyo, at first I was scared of it being another Speedster writing disaster, but they actually balanced it well.
Another interesting speedster to think about is Metro Man. Just saying, he's possibly faster than the X-men quicksilver. He took an entire CHARACTER ARC's worth of time in a single moment.
Metro man moves at the speed of comedy, also known as Ludicrous Speed
I think you missed something about Omniman vs RR.
For the way Omniman defeated RR he only needed half his speed at best and I think they did a very good job at showing that. If the speed shown was Omniman's perception he would not have taken this many hits before hew caught him.
Apocalypse probably raised the sand in the entire area around him and it cemented when Quicksilver ran through it. Although he forgot he can do this after.
He clearly only targeted his leg
9:02 "Sneaked" and "snuck" are both seen as valid past tenses of "sneak." In fact, for most of history, it was just "sneaked." "Snuck" is a relatively new invention, only showing up in the last hundred and fifty years or so. So you're actually using a form that would have been acceptable for a larger part of history! :D
Maybe the Bad Writers isn't when the Speedster lose but in how their abilities were depicted in the first place. For movies and TV directors love slow motions and thus love using Speedsters as an excuse to indulge in it, but what that often results in is their power presented less as them moving fast but as everything else being slowed down. And that should be complexly separate Super Power, that's Homura's super power in Madoka Magica.
Super Speed should have obvious draw back, but the directors obsessions with depicted it as slow-mo mode erases those drawbacks. So yeah when I watched Apocalypse I was cringing when Quicksilver did everything' he did at the Mansion, not when he fell for exactly the kind of trap I feel super speed should absolutely be vulnerable to. But people tend assume the scene always be consider the mistake even trough good writers should have decided how they're gonna everything before the wrote the set ups.
"The one that controls time, controls everything". Fucking awesome phrase. I'm stealing it. On that dumb movie Dark Phoenix, they had to find a lame ass excuse to get Quicksilver out of the way, otherwise he'd solve everything. He tripped and was unconscious for the rest of the movie 🤣🤣🤣🤣
_"There's nowhere to run!"_
cue Madvocate suicide scene
The thing that makes superspeed overpowered isnt anything inherent about the power itself, its how ridiculous the writers make it. When a character has super strength, on average theyll just be able to like lift a car, or something. 200-1000% of a normal human's strength usually. With speedsters, writers will always give them ridiculous speeds without considering the consequences for in-universe power scaling. Millions of times faster than an average person.
It's actually funny, because it's equivalent to time stop in function, but time stop is treated like the story breaking power it is, and for equivalently powerful super speed it's completely ignored.
I dunno, I loved quicksilver's writing (The x-men one). Of course, he was always a side character and was never meant to beat apocalypse, who, quite a few times already, has the ability to add effects via his generation of celestial energy including increasing his speed to levels that could match and even dwarf a speedsters. That is most likely what was happening with his pupils twitching and glowing blue. After realising he was facing a speedster, he needed to counter that by generating said energy and using it to increase his own speed. I don't think he lost to bad writing (personally), I just think it was the fact that he was facing an opponent who had cosmic levels of power and the only way to kill him was to use power on par/stronger than it (thus the phoenix force). He just simply had a bad matchup.
I feel like the proper counters to a speedster should be sneak attacks. Like in the Boys even if a speedster has super reactions, they can't see things happening behind them. If they're just sitting in a bar and someone shoots them from behind (preferably with a bullet moving faster than sound so that they can't hear it) then there should be nothing that they can really do about it. Ironically enough, people like Batman would actually be the perfect counter to a speedster, just not the way that they usually show him fighting, he'd have to go full ninja mode to avoid letting the speedster find him while attacking the speedster from angles they can't see.
Another good potential counter is big AoE attacks. Obviously depending on what you're using the speedster might be able to run out of the blast faster than it can hurt them. But as an example I think a much better way to to write the Apocalypse scene would have been to do something like say fill the entire area around him with sludge so that when Quicksilver ran into it, he'd get stuck automatically. And even if QS saw it and avoided it, well now the entire area is sludge so he can't really run up to melee distance. Could also do things like darken the area to effectively blind everyone. Doesn't matter how fast your super reactions are if you can't see anything. At which point just a basic trap could catch him.
The real problem with how speedsters are written though is that they never seem to want to use anything but their fists to fight lol. Like I can maybe buy Omniman being able to grab Red Rush in that circumstance. It clearly took him a few tries and he's basically a Superman Analogue. But the real question is even if we assume that to be possible, why the hell was Red Rush *ever* within Omniman's reach in the first place!? Surely you could deal far more damage by picking up like a rock and throwing it 100x faster than a bullet with your super speed. All while maintaining a safe distance that gives you more than plenty of time to dodge any kind of retaliation that Omniman could possibly try against you.
Sneak attacks should not work on a speedster unless it is specific that "Flash time" is a thing they have to turn on. If you perceive reality in such a way that you can react to movement at many times mach or light speed, any trap that could be sprung would take hours of speedster time to trigger, the only exceptions would be something like a laser tripwire that sets off a laser gun through an electrical signal with no intervening mechanical parts.
AoE suffers from the same problem. Unless it itself is an attack with no windup and a large AoE that travels faster than the speedster themsevles.
Really speedsters don't need weapons. A punch at mach 10 (very slow for a speedster) would easily destroy a human and if their bodies are durable enough to survive light speed stresses then no weapon they can carry is more durable than their body. If you threw a rock at speedster speeds it would vapourise in the atmosphere before it hit anything (like meteorites do in the much thinner upper atmosphere at much slower speeds)
@@Paul-bs5wlIf I see speedsters constsntly whipping their head back and forth sure, sneak attacks won't work, but they tend to not do that, so a bullet from behind will still impact because they cannot sense it before it does.
@@ayandragon2727But they could react as soon as they felt the bullet, with nothing more than a bruise.
@@weaponizedemoticon1131 If they have a straight line in front of them they can immediately run in then maybe, though they'd still suffer more than a bruise because bullets don't leave bruises in general, there'd still be a shallow puncture wound and torn skin.
@@ayandragon2727 Or move their head forward and to the left. They just need to move about six inches in one direction or another to avoid a shot to the head.
As the Chinese saying goes but I translated it poor "Of all martial arts, speed shows no flaws"
Because Flash is just OP as f**k. He can literally END kryptonians and yet he is afraid of them. He can LITERALLY react to gun point blank. Speedforce LITERALLY gives him protection.
2:24 he has fucking insane strength, and he also has gravity and inertia manipulation. for more info, search why quicksilver is stronger than you think.
Imagine being a speedster dying to bullets
2:40
Yeah, no super strength at all
The problem with Red Rush in terms of writing was mainly poor strategy, he just shouldn't have attacked Omni Man at all. But Omni Man can be him in a hand to hand fight like that.
Other than that it was really just about the visual representation, the whole scene was essentially slowed way down. Omni Man can actually move super fast in short bursts like that, though not like RR can. Even Mark performs speed/react feats like changing his clothes in the blink of an eye.
My read on that scene isn't that he so much out-speeded RR, than that he was just a much better fighter that is also very fast. He was ready for the attack, knew RR's attack patterns, and had the speed necessary to act on his instincts. He didn't need to be faster than RR, just fast enough to get his hands on him when he knew he was coming.
Main issue is that all of the Guardians needed to die for Nolan to cover up his murders.
Erm Nolan catching red Rush is a Feat for Nolan not bad Writing.
Viltrumites can Travel across the Galaxy building up speed so that means they can react to thier own speed by focusing on it.
Nolan catching red rush is akin to a human catchin a tennis Ball launched by a machine , difficult yes , impossible no.
Also Superman didn't think Batman was a threat which is why he didn't react to the kryptonite , it was completely new to him , plus he always holds back.
Superman constantly lowers his power and perception to live at a human level, so that's not bad writing.
I think the reason i would give superman a pass (and it would only be for the beginning of a fight) is that he's so used to being god, where the confidence lets him get struck by things unfamiliar to him. Such as, him catching an explosive in which he's normal invulnerable too, ended up being some random weird green dust. Essentially, element of surprise or lack of knowledge from supes
This is the perspective I have too. Speedsters not only lose to bad writing, but to the element of surprise. Red Rush was probably taken a back by the fact that someone was even able to react to him.
@@qwertydavid8070but it's different for red rush, he could see everything in slow motion and could've had more than enough time to calm himself down and retract his arm
Thoughts so far: Apocalypse - really is that fast. He has superhuman perception and all he needs to do is perceive Quicksilver to neutralize his abilities. However, the fact that he should have mopped the floor with the rest of the X-men (except maybe for Jean Grey) stands. Telekinetics/matter manipulators with enhanced perception are SCARY.
Omni-man: It seems to me that the problem hear is less with bad writing regarding Red Rush and more with inconsistency regarding Omniman. The writers are treating his combat speed as superhuman, which maybe they shouldn't, but makes sense give that we know his perception is, at least.
I do think it's possible to have speedsters lose to cleverness, and not just to bad writing. It would be really amazing to have some scenes of speedsters legitimately losing. Thoughts on how to do that include: having a house with the walls, floor and ceiling rigged all around with explosives. Have an infrared laser across the door. As soon as the speedster enters the building and starts moving up to rescue hostages, the signal goes to every explosive everywhere in the building all at once. A fast enough speedster MIGHT be able to get out, but it would be a heck of a good feat as the explosion closes in on you from all sides.
Poison or drugs - obviously. Speedsters typically have an enhanced metabolic system as part of their power set, but this could work.
Undetectable weapons: Any sort of ray or weapon that the speedster can't detect - and therefore can't respond to. You're never going to beat a speedster in a gunfight, but sniping them with something they can't detect coming should kill them.
Other ways I'm sure I haven't thought of.
Also just locking them in a place and blowing it up, most don't have Flash's phasing ability so that could work
Ancient hexes or tech that repulse Speedsters force toward the Speedster when they hit you
You got to A-Train and I thought "we're not ready for the stupid plotholes and plot contrivances of The Boys".
Honestly, Butcher and the gang have the strongest plot armour in fiction history. Carry on.
I mean, you wouldn't've had 4 or 5 seasons of the show if it was realistic and they didn't have plot armor. Any protagonists needs a certain amount of plot armor for the plot to actually happen.
@@MamadNobari I actually think that better writing ciould explain why they're still alive. I'm okay with themm being alive for the plot but their reason for staying alive can't be "they caught Homelaner by surprise and black mailed him" . When we've been shown that Homelander kills first and asks questions later when he's dealing with anybody that ain't Butcher. Homelander is shown again and again to be hot-tempered and irrational and would rather deal with the consequences later, but not with Butcher, When Butcher is mere feet away from him, he has to weigh his options and 'be careful how he handles them' . come on.
@@mathewomolo I mean, you ask for an explanation from the plot and then immediately say that they did give you an explanation, but you just don't like it.
I think they did a decent job of not using this plot armor too much and putting Homelander in situations where he's near the gang that much. And they realized they couldn't milk this armor any longer so they went ahead and gave the logical next step to the group with them having superpowers.
It's true that Homelander has been shown to be hot-headed, but he's also really petty and cares about his image and the gang uses that to their advantage. I don't think it's that outrageous that they're still alive.
And he also finally didn't even care about Butcher and tried to blast him with his laser eyes in episode 6, we're already past that point and they have to find new ways for it.
Though I understand that it's obvious Homelander only tried to kill Butcher because he already has powers or the writers wouldn't've done that at all, and they could've written it to happen more naturally and not feel artificial and contrived. But I think they did their best with what they could've done anyway.
It's really hard writing for these characters who are powerless facing a villain that can zap them in a blink and not have it feel plot-armory and contrived.
Though the problems with the writing of the show really showed themselves with that last episode.
@@MamadNobari you make valid points. And it should be telling, how the story moves on from where it left. it could still work with the Guerilla tactics of Season 1 and 2.
My problem with the show started when the writers elevated The Boys to literal face to face confrontation with essentially the evil Justice League.
its the Batman V Superman trope of nerfing one character to make a head-on conflict believable but it just doesn't work in universe.
I think MCU Quicksilver gets a pass on everything because he's just straight up dumb, like his character is a kind of dumb guy. He might be super fast but he's too stupid to use it right lol
At least Makkari got a scene in this video. She may not be the fastest but her presentation in the MCU was just so satisfying, I really liked her.
7:10 of course is not realistic, we dont have super powered individuals and speedsters in real life.
It's unrealistic within the world of Invincible, if Omni-Man can perceive things that fast then he should have the same troubles that Red Rush does when talking to normal people. Except Nolan doesn't... it's inconsistent.
I always say the most annoying thing to see in cartoons is barry or wally overwhelming a villain and the villain “predicts” where they’re going to be. Note that would make sense except for the fact that speedsters can experience the world in slow motion, so they will see that villain trying to hit them because usually that villain does not have super speed and is “predicting”
So someone pointed out when flash was running around building up speed, he would be moving so fast he would be everywhere in that circle. Then he’s focusing on building up speed, and side stepping could cause him to lose a lot of that speed
... would it cause him to lose more speed than getting shot?
In defense of red rush at the start of the fight the guardians were convince Nolan wouldn’t do such a thing unless he was mind controlled or something so red rush was probably pulling his punches and with Nolan’s super senses and reflexes mixed with the fact that we still now don’t know the full extent of nolans powers if you’re only watching the show
If human beings can react fast enough to catch a fly between chopsticks, then we can comfortably scale up to omni man catchung red rush. There's more to a fight than statistics
He lost me at apocalypse even in the scene he used apocalypse could see quick silver even if he couldn’t out speed him so would it really be to much of a stretch to say out of the thousands of mutant powers he stole one would be fast enough to catch him
@animeboys8328 Agreed, he's acting like it's an all powerful super power
Well, It is hard to write a Speedster.
Only if they mentioned that they perceived time as normal human being and only when activated then they can go Super speed then no one will bet an eye.
Super speed doesn’t have to be as overpowered as it is usually depicted, but writers can’t help but think write cool scenes that inevitably break internal consistency (See: Quicksilver). You’ve got to have the restraint to give a character super speed & never write “Time in a Bottle” style moments that essentially make them gods you’ll be forced to nerf or cheese later on
@@TheJadedJames That's why i said there should be a Mode : On/Off
Problem solved.
@@Gantaipao Yep, they could do this a couple of ways. Either he cannot react at super speed and only sees slow motion when he consciously activates it. Or they have it so that he can only react to things he can see. The first one allows non-speedster to completely get an edge and the second allows non-speedsters an exploit by staying out of the speedsters sight.
If I were to write a speedster story, the speedster would not be able to exceed the speed of sound, I would restrict it.
Guys sorry for the long break. I didn't take a break, this video actually took super long to make
Speedsters might sometimes lose to teleporters or certain non speed sensitive traps like certain types of glue traps. Most other ways that can be defeated are basically just waiting for them to mess up or be distracted.
If Red Rush just played support like he was at the start of the fight Omniman would have been stomped flat. If the OTHER Guardians had charged in when Red Rush was doing those weirdly slow punches Omniman wouldn't have had the time to predict and catch him.
Maybe because red rush lacks enhanced durability, maybe he has to slow down somewhat to hit omni man without hurting himself in the process?