Theres so many to test. It's probably good to have some sort of LOG on what shoots decent and what dont. Problem is, with .22 you can buy a brick and have it shoot great, then buy another one made on a different machine and get totally different results. Its madning. But, there are some manufactures that are more concistant than others. SK and Eley products are probably some of the best in that regard. Even there lower priced offerings are decent.
Always said the SK long-range match is fantastic value it's also definitely my go to ammo. But I'd definitely try the super long range looking at figurers. Great shooting and information 👍👍
I'm betting many many shooters are going to do a similar eval on their rigs this spring/summer with this new offerings from Lapua. I am not really surprised at the pricing given the brand name and they are a well deserved high quality ammo. The bad part is if it works as well as we hope it's going to drive many shooters broke paying for it LOL!! This video was a excellent data heavy review and well done. Found this channel a few weeks back and it is great!!!
The best way to decrease demand is to raise the price. If they can charge more for the same thing, and sell all they make, profits go up. This means the SK may become very hard to find, as they produce the more expensive ammo. Which is maybe why I can’t find the SK.
Thanks, you saved me some money. I think you have uncovered what happens when Lapua marketing is allowed to run wild. Hopefully not too many will see your video and will jump over to Lapua and take some pressure off of SK.
I did a similar test on a smaller scale with the Lapua Long Range, Lapua Center X, and SK Long Range Match out of my Vudoo a week or two ago, and I had similar results. at 100 yards, the groups varied around 6.-.8 for all 3, with the exception of one amazing group of .3 with the SK long range match. The other SK groups were all about the same as the Center X and Lapua Long Range. Right now SK Long range runs about 110 a brick while the Lapua Center X is 150 and Lapua Long Range was 170-180. I bought a bunch more SK :) I notice there's snow where you are and it's cold here where I am as well. I wonder if the colder air has a negative effect on the new Lapua ammo - I'm going to test again when it warms up a bit here.
I will repeat the test also as the cold definitely impacts the consistency of the ammo. The difference in the exact same lot of Eley SABR from warm to cold was huge. Went from .7-.8 to 1.3 in the cold. I hate this damn cold weather, I’d love to move. Especially since the damn Democrat Governor is going after the guns again.
Although I'm sure you'll get some good groups at those distances, you have to remember that this cartridge is still a 19th century design. Using a heel based bullet, with an inconsistant rimfire ignition system designed for black powder being pushed out to 100 plus yards or more... you will always get a flyer!
SK Rifle Match is the go to ammo in my CZ 457 Varmint. I added a Harrel's tuner to it a few months ago. The tuner made it Lot # insensitive. I have 5 Lots of Rifle Match that will put 10 rounds under a dime at 100 yds. The absolute best scope for the money is a Riton X1 6-24 x 50. I have several fairly expensive scopes in the $500-$600 range that are nowhere as crisp and clear as the Riton. I am in the process of selling all of them and going with the $200 Riton. I like the fact that it has a one inch tube. That allows the use of Burris Signature Zee rings with their + - .020 inserts. BTW try a Savage MKII TR with the 22" barrel. I own two of them. Both love Eley SABR. I added a tuner to both. Both are in a Boyd's Rimfire Hunter stock with action screw torque at 30 in/lbs. They are as accurate as the CZ 457.
I have a EC tuner and it sits in a drawer. I can tune better groups but it’s not repeatable so what’s the point? I’ve heard good things about the Harrels but it really doesn’t look much different then the EC. 10 rounds of Rifle Match at 100 yards would be something to see. I couldn’t do it with my expensive Lilja barrel I know that for a fact. You really should make a video of that. If I could do it I sure would. 10 rounds under a dime at 100 yards is quite a feat. You should be proud of that.
@@RimfireSS Harrell's is a much better tuner than the EC. I use the clamp on style. I post some of my groups on Rimfire Central. I caught a totally windless day at our range Wednesday. I tested a new Lot of Rifle Match in my CZ. 9 shots could be covered by a dime. Got excited and yanked the 10th one at little high. BTW I get smaller groups with a Caldwell Rock BR front and a Protektor rear bag. The Rock is much steadier than a bipod. A friend was there shooting his Lilja barrel CZ 457. He also owns two Vudoos. One with an Ace barrel. Other one has a Bartlein barrel. He looked at my group and just shook his head. neither of his Vudoos group very well.
I agree, Lapua just wanted to market a Long Range to try and get some of the S/K Long Range mkt. these Lapua Long Range &. Super Long Range shells are going nowhere as S/K is still the best in accuracy and price for sure. These Lapua shells are way overpriced and under performing.
This video it is the best review on the world. Beautifull and nice comparison. ABSOLUTELY... the BEST presentation of any subject matter. Interesting results and information. Thanks a lot. View from Quebec.
I'm a fan of SK ammo, I run the SK Rifle Match (Red) most of the time. In competition tho I run Eley Team and Eley Match because they shoot well and have a light colored bullet you can see in flight, so you can make your adjustments accordingly.
Interesting results with your arctic survival shooting at the beginning of your clip!😎 I live in Louisiana and we have found that in the winter/early spring our ammunition is MUCH more consistent when we actually make an effort to keep the ammunition much closer to a “reasonable” temperature of about 70 degrees as apposed to leaving the ammunition out in 40-60 degree temps. There is a demonstrable difference in accuracy between the cold ammo and the warm ammo. I’m going to bet that your conditions would have a noticeable effect on the accuracy of the ammunition. Isn’t that why they make “biathlon” ammunition?
Oh I definitely agree. My summer groups are way more consistent then in the winter, hands down. I’m going to repeat the test when it finally warms up. But for those of us that live in the Artic…. Need to know how a ammunition is going to act when it’s cold. SK and Lapua are probably the most consistent in the cold compared to other brands. But I definitely get less fliers and tighter groups when it’s warmer out. Unfortunately here in MI we get half and half as far as the weather so we need something that will shoot good in both conditions.
@@danulman8837 no I haven’t, I’ve never seen it in stock when I needed ammunition. I don’t like to spend a lot on ammunition. I try to get the best for the least. Lol
At 4:40 second super long range looks very good, maybe dail a few clicks to the right. I've heard guys say for some reason certain rifles like certain ammo more than others, that's a weird thing how that is. At 9:20 these groups all look very good, big difference from the others . I'm getting groups like these at 25yds with my Tippmann Arms AR-M422, nickel size groups , it's a M4-22lr. CCI mini mag solid copper coated ammo 1235 fps.
Definitely shooter error. Can we get 22Plinkster or Jerry Miculek on the bench. JUST KIDDING. Good shooting sir. And thanks for these comparisons. Now i know my 1953 Jc penny single shot sniper Jr iron sight smoothbore will place em in 1 hole in my living room fireplace bullet trap. JK again. Thanks. Subscribed. I'm looking to up my 22LR game w a fine bolty soon. So many choices these days.
As many people get into rimfire as an affordable way to shoot there has to be a line for many that splits the cost vs accuracy/consistency threshold. I realize that much of this ammo is targeted towards those serious competitors shooting in the different types of matches but there again to continue to draw new shooters with somewhat average budgets into the different types of competition game just like having price limits to shoot a "factory" class of rifle to be more affordable we are quickly entering a scenario where we need to have the same types of cost limitations on the "factory" ammo allowed in the lower classes. With many of the top tier ammunition grades now getting into the up to $25 a box range to me I do not consider that affordable rimfire not to mention even at those prices the ammo performance can vary so much from lot to lot and still has velocity difference even within the same box.
That’s very true, the super long range I had was very inconsistent, but that’s rimfire. We try to buy more expensive ammunition to limit the fliers, but even then we are at the mercy of the manufacturers.
Great video and very timely. I'm running low on my RWS R100 which is my most accurate load in my CZ457 VPT. I will try both Lapua LR and Super LR. They are available and less expensive than the RWS.
First time I have seen and watched your video. I like the way you g o about it. Straight to t h splint and informative. I was wondering if the SK was the same ammo you use with both guns and if it is about normal accuracy for both?
My best groups in the CZ are shot with Eley SABR, that lot tested ammunition will shoot .6 to .7 religiously. And the Tikka shoots the SK Long Range Match about the best at .75-.9 depending on the lot.
Thinking that there doesn’t need to be any fouling shots as “they use the same lube” is a fallacy. Need to foul with every change of ammo regardless, even just changing lots of same ammo. Thankfully 2 of my 3 rimfire rifles shoot the super long range the best, the 3rd shoots the long range best, none of them shot the SK well, but that’s rimfires, it’s way more a compatibility issue than a specific ammo issue. My KIDD Supergrade has a lot of Remington golden bullet ammo it shoots into 1/4” at 50yds consistently. You just never know.
I shoot SK all the time and I have never had bad results switching from different lots or ammunition made by them. Now different manufacturers sure, that’s a no brainer.
Thats the third video I have seen with the new Lapua ammo. And for the price and performance I think I will stick with the SK ammo. We are struggling to get ammo in Canada as well. 👍
The super long range had really good SDs, and that has to be low to shoot good at long range. but it was ranging from 2-8, which should do the job. But at a very high price.
The price doesn’t justify the performance in my opinion when I am getting the same or better results with SK Long Range and Standard Plus for that matter. I agree with you that for that price and the Lapua brand you shouldn’t be getting consistent flyers. I don’t think it was your shooting ability at all👍
I had an old Marlin model 60 chambered in .22 long rifle and it shot everything I ever ran through it extremely well and I shot squirrels at 65 yards in the head, the scope was an old Tasco 3x7x21. Nothing fancy by any means but it was darn accurate for what I used it for
Those are the best, Marlin used to make excellent rifles and when they can shoot that well with a cheap scope that shows there quality. They don’t make them like that anymore.
Interesting audio issue in the edit when you went to velocity testing. Watching with Dolby cut all audio until the phone screen was projected around the 10:40 mark and only verbal fps was heard. Had to put it in mono to hear your microphone.
Yeah I’m experimenting with a new mic setup and i had it on my collar. We’ll it was covered when I shouldered the gun. I really don’t think I need it in most situations. Still experimenting. It will get better.
The new Lapua hasn't made it to the Australian market yet and the supply of both SK and Lapua has dried up and not forcast of when it will start dribbling through
The Long Range actually shot better then the Super for me. The super had very inconsistent charges on non crono shooting, I could plainly hear the louder rounds and they always impacted high. I think I got a bad lot myself. IDK?
Every channel I've watched do a test on this new ammo has come-up disappointed. For the Name alone, you'd expect better consistency, and at this price-point, it's hard to justify the expenditure against the results. Especially through a Lilja Barrel, which is a truly world-class tube. The Cold-bore shots I can understand the occasional flier... but many of the fliers here, and on other videos, seem to be the second shot of a string, which baffles me. I guess this ammo is still in the development stages, because it feels like they pushed this out too early. I think what bothers me the most in a lot of these videos is the Point-of-impact shift between groups... bottom of the target for one, top for the next, then a mangy string up one side... all shot in a row, same lot, same box. If any of my centrefire rifles did that, I'd probably sell them.
I agree 100 percent when you pay that kind of money you should not have flyer's l had the 10/22 shilen barrel out today and shot some great groups with Norma tac good stuff again sadly the SK is starting to inch up in price to
Great video, we know everyone's gun is different. And lot numbers from ammo to ammo makes a huge difference. Also I have to totally agree at that price it had better shoot half inch groups all day long , At 100 yd.
I see one of your Tikka T1X magazines has an extension on it. Who's extension is it and how do you like it? Any feeding issues with feeding when it's fully loaded vs loaded 1 or 2 rounds less than full capacity? Thanks in advance!
I hate it, absolute junk. It’s a plus five and the magazine blew apart several times. Apparently all these magazine extensions have to be super glued on. Don’t waist your money. This one is made by Schmit Works but I have the MKM one and same problem. And constant feeding problems. These magazines are a problem for Tikka. Unfortunate.
As a hoarder I still have 900b fed. ...which is no longer made bit instead make crap...fed and cci are same company owned but profit is more important than quality...Russian steel case is higher quality than fed now...
Maybe someone will see what we think of rf quality...in lr,lg,and short...hmr and wsm are good for varment but bench rest is MATCH long rifle at std velocity......we need the old federal back.
I have tried over 20 different brands in .22 in my Brno no5 and Sk long range really groups better than the rest yet my mate has the same rifle that shoots Eley better.
Out of curiosity, how do you measure your groupings when displaying your group size. Do you measure end to end and the subtract bullet diameter or just end to end or another method?
I’m using the center-to-center method. I use a digital caliper to measure the distance from the outside edges of the two bullet holes farthest apart. Then subtract one bullet diameter. That’s how I was always taught. I know there’s other ways but this seems the most accurate to me.
If we would have bet money, i would have lost. Could be a bad lot… ive always had great luck with lapua ammo (center x). Even your velocity testing says the super long should have won. This leads me to a few questions…. How cold was it? What is the elevation where you are at? I have also found that barometric pressure changes can really mess with a .22lr and more so when it is colder. Thats just all i could come up with as im baffled at the results. Lol. And yet it is what is… good video though. 👍
It was 23 degrees and the cold does affect the consistency, but then it should have affected the SK as well. I’m thinking a bad lot. A lot of vertical stringing. Idk man lots of fliers too. I’m gonna try it again once it warms up. Shot it at 200 today with the same results. 😂
I’ve never had a ammunition have numbers like that super long range did. Next good wind day I have I’m gonna do another 100 yard test with just the SLR.
@@RimfireSS the pressure changes can happen from minute to minute.. i do agree we should have seen more issues with the sk too but it also had a lower average ft per second. Not much but every 1 could mean something at that temp. Example… polar biathlon is 1060ft/sec where as standard subs are 1080ft/sec. Idk just brain storming, those are some crazy results. Lol.
@@RimfireSS i have shot bricks of center x with less fliers than you had. Almost wonder if they retooled the machines or something. I guess warm weather will give us a real answer. Will be looking forward to future results.
this is what I think happened, lapua had a shipment of midas plus or whatever is their highest price ammo is and the truck turned over and they swept them up and called the mixed up ammo long range match. Have you done the royal flush challenge yet?
@@RimfireSS I am sorry for the delayed reply Rimfire, I love your videos by the way. The Royal flush Challenge is cutting playing cards challenge, you can go here to see it. th-cam.com/video/Wd3fYnQDncU/w-d-xo.html I happened to be at the range when Fairview showed up and I shot the challenge with him. It is a fun diversion to shoot but I think you will have to use one of your semi autos to beat my time. Keep making the videos and I will keep watching them!
Demand is to high, this is when quality goes down. I to a am a rimfire fan. BUT when manufacturing can't keep up its ti to back to centerfire ,like the Hornet 22 or something like it. 22lr was never built for what you want ,it was made for rats in the barn at 10 yds, But with centerfire you must reload it
Demand is to high, this is when quality goes down. I to a am a rimfire fan. BUT when manufacturing can't keep up its ti to back to centerfire ,like the Hornet 22 or something like it. 22lr was never built for what you want
So looking to do a new build. My 10/22 is about as good as I'm gonna get it, I'd rather get a bolt to build up into an MDT or krg chassis and such, but out of curiosity, what do you prefer the Tikka or CZ? In terms of modifications available, and base platform, they both seem pretty even but with your experience, which would you go to first
@@RimfireSS I buy RWS R100 from Oberle Enterprises for $220 a brick. Creedmoor Sports also but $25/50. I noticed that you were shooting with the magazines in both rifles. I use a single shot adapter and manually load each round. I find I get significantly fewer fliers that way.
A lot of viewers love the wind flag, I’ve had many guys say so. I just try to have it in the video for them. Grounds frozen and it fell over, I couldn’t get it back in. Lol
What was the temperature that day I’ve noticed that 22lr is temperature sensitive. I shot a match were the temperature was cold and started out ok and then the ammo got cold and it went down hill from there so i was thinking about putting hand warmers in my ammo case to keep it warm until i shoot it so it would not get cold just a thought?
It was shot at 50 and 100 on this video and 200 on another. If I tested this ammunition at every yardage on one video people would bitch about the video being too long. Also 95 percent of people shooting this ammunition will shoot it under 100 yards. Most people don’t have access to 3 or 400 yards But still want good shooting consistent ammunition. If it don’t shoot at 50 or 100 it’s really no good to most shooters.
Also this video has been out for months, I was one of the first people to do any testing on this new ammunition. Another ammo test at 50 yards, give me a break.
Good informative review, but it’s not comparing apples to apples. The CZ should have the standard barrel to be a fairer comparison. Standard factory rifle should have been used.
All three ammunitions were used in the same gun, what does a factory barrel have to do with comparing all three ammunitions against each other? Most of the people that are going to buy this high dollar ammunition are going to use it with a high dollar rifle. Your comment really confuses me….
@@RimfireSS, apologies, I rewatched your video as the last time I had numerous interruptions not hearing all the content and not realising it wasn’t rifle vs rifle. But watching it again, as you said this standard of ammunition you shouldn’t get fliers when spending the $$$. Great video. I follow another channel, “Mark and Sam after work” they have been working on an ELR 22 Magnum project. Emptying cases, measuring the powder weight, trying different projectiles and case crimping. The amount of difference in powder charge from case to case was an eye opener. Worth a look. Cheers.
That’s a good question. I have notifications set up on all kinds of websites. Creedmoor sports has been pretty consistent as of late. But yeah, that’s the big problem with the SK is nobody has it for long.
We’ll let’s see…… the action. Lol I have a CZ457 MTR though that’s a beautiful stock rifle. Honestly if I would have bought the MTR first I never would have had to modify this one. It shoots great. Almost as good as the one in this video. But if I need a rifle that I know will perform I grab this Lilja CZ. It’s the most consistent rifle I own.
@@RimfireSS Thanks for the clarification. I have used their Contact and Tenex but I never tried the semi-auto ... I didnt realize it was that good. At half the cost of Tenex, I'll give it a shot!
@@thomasdison9818 no problem, order a few lots when they restock which should be soon. Or if you have ever shot lot matched Eley Match and know what FPS shot good start with that FPS on the SABR.
Lol, better rifle…. That ammunition was super inconsistent. Some shot great some didn’t. I’ve bought more recently and shot MOA with the cheapest rifle Savage makes at 200 yards. On video. Better rifle. Your funny.
I FINALLY HAVE A GREEN LAWN & 60º WEATHER...Like you, I watch that wind like a hawk but haven't had that perfect range day yet this year. Yesterday I had an average of .641" from 10 each 5 shot groups at 100 yards. Felt good but not good enough yet! (perfectionists we are 😜 in the 'rabbit-hole') See my target at Cast Boolits - search - 'TUNING a .22lr BR at 100 yards'... post number 31, I am CB member named... 'OS OK'. * I think your barrel time at this speed is causing your barrel to be on the 'downswing vibration' when the projectile leaves the muzzle with this ammo...makes the faster rounds hit higher than the slower ones. Please check out and read about 'POSITIVE COMPENSATION' ... A GREAT PDF here titled...'The Vibrations of a Barrel Tuned for Positive Compensation' , posted by 'geoffrey-kolbe' (find that PDF in a search, don't get sidetracked to a forum that mentions it...OK?) Introduction Mr A. Mallock ("Vibrations of Rifle Barrels", Proceedings of the Royal Society, Vol. 68, page 327, 1901) may not have been the first person to put forward the proposition that a rifle can be "tuned" to generate "positive compensation" at a given range, but it shows that this idea has been around for well over a century and is not a new one. * Those stubby barrels without a tuner can still be tuned by changing the speed of your test lots but preferably...'slowing the ammo down' (staying farther away from the speed of sound pressure wave), buying slower lots (or faster if you like) and testing with the chrony until you see the slower rounds impacting the target above the faster ones in your groups. Takes some time on very low to no wind days but it's worthwhile. All the ammo you shot today would really kick in and group with positive barrel compensation.... have a great summer shooting...charlie
@@charlesirby9222 although in the situation in this video, being it’s Lapua which you can’t order by lot or FPS, it would be very hard to tune the ammunition when you can’t control what your buying.
@@RimfireSS Another method to influence barrel vibrations is change the length of the barrel by putting a shim between barrel and stock. Start out just ahead of the receiver and move it an inch at a time towards the muzzle, you will see the groups change because of the increased vibrations. It's like tricking the barrel into acting like a shorter stiffer barrel. The shim can be hard rubber. Your after projectiles that leave the muzzle on the 'upswing' of the barrel vibration....that's 'positive compensation'.
How do you explain any flier? There’s so many factors it’s practically impossible to diagnose. It’s .22lr, fliers are just a part of this sport unfortunately.
Shows doesn't mean high price ammo better, it's all on what your rifle likes, and shoots best. Great test
Theres so many to test. It's probably good to have some sort of LOG on what shoots decent and what dont. Problem is, with .22 you can buy a brick and have it shoot great, then buy another one made on a different machine and get totally different results. Its madning. But, there are some manufactures that are more concistant than others. SK and Eley products are probably some of the best in that regard. Even there lower priced offerings are decent.
Always said the SK long-range match is fantastic value it's also definitely my go to ammo. But I'd definitely try the super long range looking at figurers. Great shooting and information 👍👍
I'm betting many many shooters are going to do a similar eval on their rigs this spring/summer with this new offerings from Lapua. I am not really surprised at the pricing given the brand name and they are a well deserved high quality ammo. The bad part is if it works as well as we hope it's going to drive many shooters broke paying for it LOL!! This video was a excellent data heavy review and well done. Found this channel a few weeks back and it is great!!!
Omg that’s for sure. Shit I hate paying $10 a box as fast as it gets shot up. Lol
As a professional gunsmith myself, I really enjoyed this video. The shim is a great idea! Thank you and keep making the videos.
I will, thanks Andres
ABSOLUTELY... the BEST presentation of any subject matter (particularly .22lr) that I have witnessed. I also will stick with the SK Long Range.
Why thank you Sir! Thanks for watching and commenting.
SK Long Range? Never heard of it. BUT I'm gonna get some!
The best way to decrease demand is to raise the price. If they can charge more for the same thing, and sell all they make, profits go up. This means the SK may become very hard to find, as they produce the more expensive ammo. Which is maybe why I can’t find the SK.
Your absolutely correct.
Thanks, you saved me some money. I think you have uncovered what happens when Lapua marketing is allowed to run wild. Hopefully not too many will see your video and will jump over to Lapua and take some pressure off of SK.
That’s what I’m hoping for as well. Lol
Great video Dan. I really enjoyed it. I"m looking for the next one
Thank you.
I did a similar test on a smaller scale with the Lapua Long Range, Lapua Center X, and SK Long Range Match out of my Vudoo a week or two ago, and I had similar results. at 100 yards, the groups varied around 6.-.8 for all 3, with the exception of one amazing group of .3 with the SK long range match. The other SK groups were all about the same as the Center X and Lapua Long Range. Right now SK Long range runs about 110 a brick while the Lapua Center X is 150 and Lapua Long Range was 170-180. I bought a bunch more SK :) I notice there's snow where you are and it's cold here where I am as well. I wonder if the colder air has a negative effect on the new Lapua ammo - I'm going to test again when it warms up a bit here.
I will repeat the test also as the cold definitely impacts the consistency of the ammo. The difference in the exact same lot of Eley SABR from warm to cold was huge. Went from .7-.8 to 1.3 in the cold. I hate this damn cold weather, I’d love to move. Especially since the damn Democrat Governor is going after the guns again.
The Dems have jumped ship from Socialist to full blown Communist. 🤡
👍👍👍Thanks for this review. I use SK Standart Plus so many years and very satisfied with that amo.
It’s good stuff
Although I'm sure you'll get some good groups at those distances, you have to remember that this cartridge is still a 19th century design. Using a heel based bullet, with an inconsistant rimfire ignition system designed for black powder being pushed out to 100 plus yards or more... you will always get a flyer!
Very true.
Thanks for your testing. Blessings
Thanks for watching
Interesting and disappointing based on the flyers. I also have started using Eley SABR (Outlaw) out of my competition rifle. Great vid as always pal.
SK Rifle Match is the go to ammo in my CZ 457 Varmint. I added a Harrel's tuner to it a few months ago. The tuner made it Lot # insensitive. I have 5 Lots of Rifle Match that will put 10 rounds under a dime at 100 yds. The absolute best scope for the money is a Riton X1 6-24 x 50. I have several fairly expensive scopes in the $500-$600 range that are nowhere as crisp and clear as the Riton. I am in the process of selling all of them and going with the $200 Riton. I like the fact that it has a one inch tube. That allows the use of Burris Signature Zee rings with their + - .020 inserts. BTW try a Savage MKII TR with the 22" barrel. I own two of them. Both love Eley SABR. I added a tuner to both. Both are in a Boyd's Rimfire Hunter stock with action screw torque at 30 in/lbs. They are as accurate as the CZ 457.
I have a EC tuner and it sits in a drawer. I can tune better groups but it’s not repeatable so what’s the point? I’ve heard good things about the Harrels but it really doesn’t look much different then the EC. 10 rounds of Rifle Match at 100 yards would be something to see. I couldn’t do it with my expensive Lilja barrel I know that for a fact. You really should make a video of that. If I could do it I sure would. 10 rounds under a dime at 100 yards is quite a feat. You should be proud of that.
@@RimfireSS Harrell's is a much better tuner than the EC. I use the clamp on style. I post some of my groups on Rimfire Central. I caught a totally windless day at our range Wednesday. I tested a new Lot of Rifle Match in my CZ. 9 shots could be covered by a dime. Got excited and yanked the 10th one at little high. BTW I get smaller groups with a Caldwell Rock BR front and a Protektor rear bag. The Rock is much steadier than a bipod. A friend was there shooting his Lilja barrel CZ 457. He also owns two Vudoos. One with an Ace barrel. Other one has a Bartlein barrel. He looked at my group and just shook his head. neither of his Vudoos group very well.
@@RimfireSS I posted a 10 shot group on Rimfire Central a few minutes ago. It is in the CZ section.
@@joed3264 I’ll check it out.
Thanks for good videos. I suggest consistently same position of rear bag.
I agree, Lapua just wanted to market a Long Range to try and get some of the S/K Long Range mkt.
these Lapua Long Range &. Super Long Range shells are going nowhere as S/K is still the best in accuracy and price for sure. These Lapua shells are way overpriced and under performing.
Absoutly
I do some comparison vids with my .22 rimfire. I'm having to put the caliber as I also have a .41 Swiss Vetterli!
This video it is the best review on the world. Beautifull and nice comparison. ABSOLUTELY... the BEST presentation of any subject matter. Interesting results and information. Thanks a lot. View from Quebec.
We’ll your welcome!
I'm a fan of SK ammo, I run the SK Rifle Match (Red) most of the time. In competition tho I run Eley Team and Eley Match because they shoot well and have a light colored bullet you can see in flight, so you can make your adjustments accordingly.
I like that silver bullet also. Very easy to see.
Interesting results with your arctic survival shooting at the beginning of your clip!😎
I live in Louisiana and we have found that in the winter/early spring our ammunition is MUCH more consistent when we actually make an effort to keep the ammunition much closer to a “reasonable” temperature of about 70 degrees as apposed to leaving the ammunition out in 40-60 degree temps. There is a demonstrable difference in accuracy between the cold ammo and the warm ammo. I’m going to bet that your conditions would have a noticeable effect on the accuracy of the ammunition.
Isn’t that why they make “biathlon” ammunition?
Oh I definitely agree. My summer groups are way more consistent then in the winter, hands down. I’m going to repeat the test when it finally warms up. But for those of us that live in the Artic…. Need to know how a ammunition is going to act when it’s cold. SK and Lapua are probably the most consistent in the cold compared to other brands. But I definitely get less fliers and tighter groups when it’s warmer out. Unfortunately here in MI we get half and half as far as the weather so we need something that will shoot good in both conditions.
@@RimfireSS curious-have you ever tried any of the “biathlon” ammo during your winter? It’s pretty damned expensive….
@@danulman8837 no I haven’t, I’ve never seen it in stock when I needed ammunition. I don’t like to spend a lot on ammunition. I try to get the best for the least. Lol
At 4:40 second super long range looks very good, maybe dail a few clicks to the right. I've heard guys say for some reason certain rifles like certain ammo more than others, that's a weird thing how that is. At 9:20 these groups all look very good, big difference from the others . I'm getting groups like these at 25yds with my Tippmann Arms AR-M422, nickel size groups , it's a M4-22lr. CCI mini mag solid copper coated ammo 1235 fps.
The super long range has been very inconsistent, it will shoot a great group then the next group is doubled in size. Long range has been great.
Thanks for doing this, it saved me from buying it !! Sk pistol works in my cz to 100yds. Than eley team takes over to 200.
I havent shot the Team yet. Ill order some. Love them CZs.
Definitely shooter error. Can we get 22Plinkster or Jerry Miculek on the bench. JUST KIDDING. Good shooting sir. And thanks for these comparisons. Now i know my 1953 Jc penny single shot sniper Jr iron sight smoothbore will place em in 1 hole in my living room fireplace bullet trap. JK again. Thanks. Subscribed. I'm looking to up my 22LR game w a fine bolty soon. So many choices these days.
There sure are, I myself like the CZ457 MTR, cant be beat for the money!
As many people get into rimfire as an affordable way to shoot there has to be a line for many that splits the cost vs accuracy/consistency threshold.
I realize that much of this ammo is targeted towards those serious competitors shooting in the different types of matches but there again to continue to draw new shooters with somewhat average budgets into the different types of competition game just like having price limits to shoot a "factory" class of rifle to be more affordable we are quickly entering a scenario where we need to have the same types of cost limitations on the "factory" ammo allowed in the lower classes.
With many of the top tier ammunition grades now getting into the up to $25 a box range to me I do not consider that affordable rimfire not to mention even at those prices the ammo performance can vary so much from lot to lot and still has velocity difference even within the same box.
That’s very true, the super long range I had was very inconsistent, but that’s rimfire. We try to buy more expensive ammunition to limit the fliers, but even then we are at the mercy of the manufacturers.
Great video and very timely. I'm running low on my RWS R100 which is my most accurate load in my CZ457 VPT. I will try both Lapua LR and Super LR. They are available and less expensive than the RWS.
That R100 must be some pricy stuff.
@@RimfireSS Yes, about $22-24/50. But for me they are worth it. My CZ457 VPT shoots them extremely well in matches out to 300m.
First time I have seen and watched your video.
I like the way you g o about it. Straight to t h splint and informative.
I was wondering if the SK was the same ammo you use with both guns and if it is about normal accuracy for both?
My best groups in the CZ are shot with Eley SABR, that lot tested ammunition will shoot .6 to .7 religiously. And the Tikka shoots the SK Long Range Match about the best at .75-.9 depending on the lot.
Oh and Thanks for Watching, please subscribe if you haven’t already. I put out a video once a week.
LOOKING GOOD MAN
Thanks Richard
Thinking that there doesn’t need to be any fouling shots as “they use the same lube” is a fallacy. Need to foul with every change of ammo regardless, even just changing lots of same ammo. Thankfully 2 of my 3 rimfire rifles shoot the super long range the best, the 3rd shoots the long range best, none of them shot the SK well, but that’s rimfires, it’s way more a compatibility issue than a specific ammo issue. My KIDD Supergrade has a lot of Remington golden bullet ammo it shoots into 1/4” at 50yds consistently. You just never know.
I shoot SK all the time and I have never had bad results switching from different lots or ammunition made by them. Now different manufacturers sure, that’s a no brainer.
Thats the third video I have seen with the new Lapua ammo. And for the price and performance I think I will stick with the SK ammo. We are struggling to get ammo in Canada as well. 👍
The super long range had really good SDs, and that has to be low to shoot good at long range. but it was ranging from 2-8, which should do the job. But at a very high price.
The price doesn’t justify the performance in my opinion when I am getting the same or better results with SK Long Range and Standard Plus for that matter. I agree with you that for that price and the Lapua brand you shouldn’t be getting consistent flyers. I don’t think it was your shooting ability at all👍
@@robertbusato I agree totally!
Your videos are very interesting👍👍👍…thank you…keep it up…you have one more subscriber 😊…what rear bag do you use? Thank you.
Game changer shmedium. Available at Anarchy outdoors or Short action precision. Thanks for subscribing.
My cz 457 mtr shoot fantastic standaard and smaller groups
I had an old Marlin model 60 chambered in .22 long rifle and it shot everything I ever ran through it extremely well and I shot squirrels at 65 yards in the head, the scope was an old Tasco 3x7x21. Nothing fancy by any means but it was darn accurate for what I used it for
Those are the best, Marlin used to make excellent rifles and when they can shoot that well with a cheap scope that shows there quality. They don’t make them like that anymore.
That was a good comparison 👍👍
Thanks Vinny
👍nice comparison
Interesting audio issue in the edit when you went to velocity testing. Watching with Dolby cut all audio until the phone screen was projected around the 10:40 mark and only verbal fps was heard. Had to put it in mono to hear your microphone.
Yeah I’m experimenting with a new mic setup and i had it on my collar. We’ll it was covered when I shouldered the gun. I really don’t think I need it in most situations. Still experimenting. It will get better.
The new Lapua hasn't made it to the Australian market yet and the supply of both SK and Lapua has dried up and not forcast of when it will start dribbling through
The long range minus the one shot on chrono would have been much lower than sk , pretty much same as the super long range
The Long Range actually shot better then the Super for me. The super had very inconsistent charges on non crono shooting, I could plainly hear the louder rounds and they always impacted high. I think I got a bad lot myself. IDK?
Every channel I've watched do a test on this new ammo has come-up disappointed. For the Name alone, you'd expect better consistency, and at this price-point, it's hard to justify the expenditure against the results. Especially through a Lilja Barrel, which is a truly world-class tube.
The Cold-bore shots I can understand the occasional flier... but many of the fliers here, and on other videos, seem to be the second shot of a string, which baffles me.
I guess this ammo is still in the development stages, because it feels like they pushed this out too early.
I think what bothers me the most in a lot of these videos is the Point-of-impact shift between groups... bottom of the target for one, top for the next, then a mangy string up one side... all shot in a row, same lot, same box. If any of my centrefire rifles did that, I'd probably sell them.
I agree 100 percent when you pay that kind of money you should not have flyer's l had the 10/22 shilen barrel out today and shot some great groups with Norma tac good stuff again sadly the SK is starting to inch up in price to
Thanks John
Great video, we know everyone's gun is different. And lot numbers from ammo to ammo makes a huge difference. Also I have to totally agree at that price it had better shoot half inch groups all day long , At 100 yd.
I had the same results with the Lapua long range in my vudoo sk rifle match clearly out shoots it
Product really makes no sense. Just clever marketing. And why? They have no problem selling everything they have now….
I see one of your Tikka T1X magazines has an extension on it. Who's extension is it and how do you like it? Any feeding issues with feeding when it's fully loaded vs loaded 1 or 2 rounds less than full capacity? Thanks in advance!
I hate it, absolute junk. It’s a plus five and the magazine blew apart several times. Apparently all these magazine extensions have to be super glued on. Don’t waist your money. This one is made by Schmit Works but I have the MKM one and same problem. And constant feeding problems. These magazines are a problem for Tikka. Unfortunate.
Love your videos, can you tell me what chronograph/model you’re using as well as the app on your phone that calls out the velocity..? Thanks, joe
Thanks. Here’s the link
www.opticsplanet.com/competition-electronics-prochrono-dlx-with-bluetooth.html
As a hoarder I still have 900b fed. ...which is no longer made bit instead make crap...fed and cci are same company owned but profit is more important than quality...Russian steel case is higher quality than fed now...
Yeah most American .22 blows now.
Maybe someone will see what we think of rf quality...in lr,lg,and short...hmr and wsm are good for varment but bench rest is MATCH long rifle at std velocity......we need the old federal back.
Those rifles don't not like lapua at all. This happens sometimes. My Kimber 82 loves CCi , Winchester , Fihocci and Eley yet hates all Remington .22 .
I have tried over 20 different brands in .22 in my Brno no5 and Sk long range really groups better than the rest yet my mate has the same rifle that shoots Eley better.
So weird how one barrel made by the same manufacturer shoots so much different then the one probably made right before it. Crazy.
Hey, you'll try them outta the 10/22, the Green Mountain version.
I might, don’t really want to do another video on it. Can’t beat a dead horse.
Out of curiosity, how do you measure your groupings when displaying your group size. Do you measure end to end and the subtract bullet diameter or just end to end or another method?
I’m using the center-to-center method. I use a digital caliper to measure the distance from the outside edges of the two bullet holes farthest apart. Then subtract one bullet diameter. That’s how I was always taught. I know there’s other ways but this seems the most accurate to me.
If we would have bet money, i would have lost. Could be a bad lot… ive always had great luck with lapua ammo (center x). Even your velocity testing says the super long should have won. This leads me to a few questions….
How cold was it?
What is the elevation where you are at?
I have also found that barometric pressure changes can really mess with a .22lr and more so when it is colder.
Thats just all i could come up with as im baffled at the results. Lol. And yet it is what is… good video though. 👍
It was 23 degrees and the cold does affect the consistency, but then it should have affected the SK as well. I’m thinking a bad lot. A lot of vertical stringing. Idk man lots of fliers too. I’m gonna try it again once it warms up. Shot it at 200 today with the same results. 😂
I’ve never had a ammunition have numbers like that super long range did. Next good wind day I have I’m gonna do another 100 yard test with just the SLR.
@@RimfireSS the pressure changes can happen from minute to minute.. i do agree we should have seen more issues with the sk too but it also had a lower average ft per second. Not much but every 1 could mean something at that temp. Example… polar biathlon is 1060ft/sec where as standard subs are 1080ft/sec. Idk just brain storming, those are some crazy results. Lol.
@@RimfireSS i have shot bricks of center x with less fliers than you had. Almost wonder if they retooled the machines or something. I guess warm weather will give us a real answer. Will be looking forward to future results.
@@pranc236 from what I understand this SLR is center x with a tad more powder. And next time I test it I’ll have the chronograph on it as well.
this is what I think happened, lapua had a shipment of midas plus or whatever is their highest price ammo is and the truck turned over and they swept them up and called the mixed up ammo long range match. Have you done the royal flush challenge yet?
Royal flush challenge? Nope what’s that?
@@RimfireSS I am sorry for the delayed reply Rimfire, I love your videos by the way. The Royal flush Challenge is cutting playing cards challenge, you can go here to see it. th-cam.com/video/Wd3fYnQDncU/w-d-xo.html
I happened to be at the range when Fairview showed up and I shot the challenge with him. It is a fun diversion to shoot but I think you will have to use one of your semi autos to beat my time. Keep making the videos and I will keep watching them!
Great revue!
Demand is to high, this is when quality goes down. I to a am a rimfire fan. BUT when manufacturing can't keep up its ti to back to centerfire ,like the Hornet 22 or something like it. 22lr was never built for what you want ,it was made for rats in the barn at 10 yds, But with centerfire you must reload it
Enjoyed the review…
Thanks for watching.
Demand is to high, this is when quality goes down. I to a am a rimfire fan. BUT when manufacturing can't keep up its ti to back to centerfire ,like the Hornet 22 or something like it. 22lr was never built for what you want
So looking to do a new build. My 10/22 is about as good as I'm gonna get it, I'd rather get a bolt to build up into an MDT or krg chassis and such, but out of curiosity, what do you prefer the Tikka or CZ? In terms of modifications available, and base platform, they both seem pretty even but with your experience, which would you go to first
CZ hands down no question.
I’d go with the Varmint MTR, has a great shooting 20” match barrel. Replace the stock with a chassis and viola you got a great shooter.
Good review....BUT......what did I hear?.... Tim - i -ney trigger ?...... funny.
That’s how I’ve always said it, lol, think I would read. Good catch
@@RimfireSS ...sorry...wasn't trying to be critical, just thought it sounded funny to my ears. Good reporting.....cheers.
I'll just take center x from lapua. Sk match and long range match behind that.
Good plan!
👍👍
Interesting test. I find RWS R50 gives me best results.
Ive tried the R50 and it was decent.
RWS R100 outstanding in my CZ457 VPT
@@roberthavens7700 never tried that stuff. Where are you finding it?
@@RimfireSS I buy RWS R100 from Oberle Enterprises for $220 a brick. Creedmoor Sports also but $25/50. I noticed that you were shooting with the magazines in both rifles. I use a single shot adapter and manually load each round. I find I get significantly fewer fliers that way.
Are you have extraction issues with the Lilja barrel? Thanks
Not at all. Never.
@@RimfireSS I just one of there barrels and every 10 rounds it would get stuck in the chamber. Did you use shims?
@@davidbond4311 yes, set it to .043 like the instructions said and no problems at all.
Would be interested if you loaded each round individually without putting them into your magazine ?
I did not. I use a rifle the way it was intended to be used.
200 yards would be a better test for long range ammo.
Try this one then.
th-cam.com/video/Vu6cZlyNW6o/w-d-xo.html
I can not see any wind at all the leaves are hanging still the dont move at all you do not need a wind flag
A lot of viewers love the wind flag, I’ve had many guys say so. I just try to have it in the video for them. Grounds frozen and it fell over, I couldn’t get it back in. Lol
What was the temperature that day I’ve noticed that 22lr is temperature sensitive. I shot a match were the temperature was cold and started out ok and then the ammo got cold and it went down hill from there so i was thinking about putting hand warmers in my ammo case to keep it warm until i shoot it so it would not get cold just a thought?
It was cold. 23 degrees. And .22 is very temp sensitive. But the SK shot like it normally does so IDK.
Oh yay another ammo test at 50 yards. Why use long range ammo at 50 yards? Go test it at 300 to 400 yards and see how it groups.
It was shot at 50 and 100 on this video and 200 on another. If I tested this ammunition at every yardage on one video people would bitch about the video being too long. Also 95 percent of people shooting this ammunition will shoot it under 100 yards. Most people don’t have access to 3 or 400 yards But still want good shooting consistent ammunition. If it don’t shoot at 50 or 100 it’s really no good to most shooters.
Also this video has been out for months, I was one of the first people to do any testing on this new ammunition. Another ammo test at 50 yards, give me a break.
Good informative review, but it’s not comparing apples to apples. The CZ should have the standard barrel to be a fairer comparison. Standard factory rifle should have been used.
All three ammunitions were used in the same gun, what does a factory barrel have to do with comparing all three ammunitions against each other? Most of the people that are going to buy this high dollar ammunition are going to use it with a high dollar rifle. Your comment really confuses me….
@@RimfireSS, apologies, I rewatched your video as the last time I had numerous interruptions not hearing all the content and not realising it wasn’t rifle vs rifle. But watching it again, as you said this standard of ammunition you shouldn’t get fliers when spending the $$$. Great video. I follow another channel, “Mark and Sam after work” they have been working on an ELR 22 Magnum project. Emptying cases, measuring the powder weight, trying different projectiles and case crimping. The amount of difference in powder charge from case to case was an eye opener. Worth a look. Cheers.
@@dutchaus5813 I watch there channel.
Best place to find sk long range in stock?
That’s a good question. I have notifications set up on all kinds of websites. Creedmoor sports has been pretty consistent as of late. But yeah, that’s the big problem with the SK is nobody has it for long.
Bullet Central had it in mid January. I also use Ammo Fast. Both are reliable and have decent prices.
@@BMPRacing thanks Brad. Seems like all the sites with fair pricing sell out fast so check them often if they don’t have email notifications.
Way to pricy ammo for me. My budget stops at sk standard plus.
I hear ya man, I won’t buy anymore. The SK shoots good enough for me.
Your cz457 what part of that gun is still a cz457 🤣
We’ll let’s see…… the action. Lol
I have a CZ457 MTR though that’s a beautiful stock rifle. Honestly if I would have bought the MTR first I never would have had to modify this one. It shoots great. Almost as good as the one in this video. But if I need a rifle that I know will perform I grab this Lilja CZ. It’s the most consistent rifle I own.
What is the Eley Saber? th-cam.com/video/NfJROVnzqlY/w-d-xo.html
Eley SABR semi auto bench rest
@@RimfireSS Thanks for the clarification. I have used their Contact and Tenex but I never tried the semi-auto ... I didnt realize it was that good. At half the cost of Tenex, I'll give it a shot!
@@thomasdison9818 no problem, order a few lots when they restock which should be soon. Or if you have ever shot lot matched Eley Match and know what FPS shot good start with that FPS on the SABR.
God forbid it's the shooters fault
Well, both of these ammunitions have performed the same in all my rifles so..... not the shooter.
Same ammo different box it’s just marketing
Take better rifle and you will see
Lol, better rifle…. That ammunition was super inconsistent. Some shot great some didn’t. I’ve bought more recently and shot MOA with the cheapest rifle Savage makes at 200 yards. On video. Better rifle. Your funny.
I FINALLY HAVE A GREEN LAWN & 60º WEATHER...Like you, I watch that wind like a hawk but haven't had that perfect range day yet this year.
Yesterday I had an average of .641" from 10 each 5 shot groups at 100 yards. Felt good but not good enough yet! (perfectionists we are 😜 in the 'rabbit-hole')
See my target at Cast Boolits - search - 'TUNING a .22lr BR at 100 yards'... post number 31, I am CB member named... 'OS OK'.
* I think your barrel time at this speed is causing your barrel to be on the 'downswing vibration' when the projectile leaves the muzzle with this ammo...makes the faster rounds hit higher than the slower ones. Please check out and read about 'POSITIVE COMPENSATION' ... A GREAT PDF here titled...'The Vibrations of a Barrel Tuned for Positive Compensation' , posted by 'geoffrey-kolbe' (find that PDF in a search, don't get sidetracked to a forum that mentions it...OK?)
Introduction
Mr A. Mallock ("Vibrations of Rifle Barrels", Proceedings of the Royal Society, Vol. 68, page 327, 1901) may not have been the first person to put forward the proposition that a rifle can be "tuned" to generate "positive compensation" at a given range, but it shows that this idea has been around for well over a century and is not a new one.
* Those stubby barrels without a tuner can still be tuned by changing the speed of your test lots but preferably...'slowing the ammo down' (staying farther away from the speed of sound pressure wave), buying slower lots (or faster if you like) and testing with the chrony until you see the slower rounds impacting the target above the faster ones in your groups. Takes some time on very low to no wind days but it's worthwhile. All the ammo you shot today would really kick in and group with positive barrel compensation....
have a great summer shooting...charlie
Don’t get to many no wind days around here. I’ll take a look at doing this when I have some time to play around. Thanks
@@RimfireSS 👌
@@charlesirby9222 although in the situation in this video, being it’s Lapua which you can’t order by lot or FPS, it would be very hard to tune the ammunition when you can’t control what your buying.
@@RimfireSS Another method to influence barrel vibrations is change the length of the barrel by putting a shim between barrel and stock.
Start out just ahead of the receiver and move it an inch at a time towards the muzzle, you will see the groups change because of the increased vibrations. It's like tricking the barrel into acting like a shorter stiffer barrel. The shim can be hard rubber. Your after projectiles that leave the muzzle on the 'upswing' of the barrel vibration....that's 'positive compensation'.
How do you explain the flyers???
How do you explain any flier? There’s so many factors it’s practically impossible to diagnose. It’s .22lr, fliers are just a part of this sport unfortunately.