An Integration Investigation: Nissan Ariya Hoist Review
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 12 ต.ค. 2023
- Jordan and Julian put the 2023 Nissan Ariya up on the hoist to judge the level of integration present in its underbody and battery pack architectures.
Munro Live is a TH-cam channel that features Sandy Munro and other engineers from Munro & Associates. Munro is an engineering consulting firm and a world leader in reverse engineering and teardown benchmarking.
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🙋♂️THANKS JORDAN ,JULIAN AND THE REST OF THE MUNRO TEAM 💚💚💚
Good job Jordan and Julian. Also shout out to Grace, nice camera work!
Grace is the best! She’s even better than Eric, but don’t tell him that! 🤣😂
Yes please - more opinions. So many technically competent people, but it takes experience to be confident enough to formulate an opinion. This is why we love Sandy, nice to see it rubbing off on others.
I enjoy all your videos. Great job.❤
Thank you for watching!
I received my sign autograph cyber truck I love it thank you i’m glad I could support a great channel.
Thanks for supporting us!
Ariya absolutely has active shutters at the the front - the European version at least. And the range we get with the large battery variant is 329 miles.
You should have clarified that the Ariya DOES have active shutters, only that they are located behind the front grill and not a part of it.
Thanks Jordan and Julian and Munroe Live for featuring this engineeirng analysis of the EV Rivian!
ah.. the **Team Munro Hoist**..love it! now I can find everything, & have a better guess where a ''bad'' noise could come from! & that fluid flow of the architecture of engineering, is just crazy!
thanks 4 the vid on the Nissan Ariya! I'm noticing more metal stampings, rather than 30-40% multiple cast members! their cast looks nice! thanks 4 let'n me be there.. good luck ya'll !!
Another excellent video thanks! I own an Ariya so it is cool to see the underside with some of the covers off.
Thanks for watching!
I like the pack underside standoff space to minimise the risk of damage and the post-collision safety gained from placing the pack's cooling external, as H/K and VW do. Although there are a lot of fiddly parts here and there it's clear that Nissan's design intent is to provide a quality product, as they did with the Leaf. I was hoping that there would be some engineering comment about the steel sump under the motor? Clearly it's a 'wet' motor design, another good choice, so perhaps that's access to a filter screen or oil/coolant heat exchanger? Big thanks for the video, guys!
As a person who is improving the aerodynamic of ones EV, it is good to pick up a few pointers.
I love these walk throughs!
Nice job Munro team! I love all your videos. That extra long wiring harness. Do you think it could be like that because they didn't want to redesign the parts that those wires go too? Such as those parts used to be in other vehicles that were further away from each other. They change the distance for those items in the new vehicle and just wrap up the extra wiring? Seems like that's more like it. Haha.
I'd worry about how evenly cooled the cells and modules are if all the coolant goes down one side and up the other. You'd think they'd incorporate dual loops flowing in opposite directions with a manifold at opposite ends to distribute and redirect it. The more evenly you can match the cell temps, the less likely you are to throttle the charging speed because of hot or cold spots. From TeslaBjørn's OBD data it seems that Tesla still does the best job of keeping all the module temps within low single digits of eachother.
I believe the lights are installed at factory level. Interesting that Nissan went to great lengths to cover the pack and the underbody yet couldn’t be bothered to route,cover, and mount the wiring for the lights correctly.
After thought, the platform will be used for Renault products as well and I doubt this was planned since conception.
Port installed.
That wiring assembly *might* also be intended for other, larger vehicles, and Nissan went with one part for their entire lineup. Just speculation.
@@ClockworksOfGL really good observation that’s certainly plausible I believe the pathfinder and armada have a similar lighting package. Could be that all models use the same part number for the lighting package.
@@MuitoDaora maybe but why would they design a lighting package that’s a one-off/bespoke to one car and cannot be used across others….that seems like extra cost that the company will not get back imo
That coolant pump mounted on the bottom is going be a pain in the butt to swap out. Having owned a LEAF, I can verify those water pumps have a relatively short service life.
I’d love to see them do this with the manufacturer engineer there 😂
Too embarrassed to show their face and probably signed a dozen NDA.
@@antoinepageau8336, what a juvenile comment…
Did some cool things, thank you!
Thank god someone finally had to sense to bring a laser pointer to one of these videos
good job boys!
Thank you
26:18 Why does the HV exit the back of the pack when the motor and charger are at the front of the vehicle? Or an I confused as usual? :)
Please show 2 abs sensors in detail!!
The other thing I noticed about those courtesy lights is that the mounting clips are over the lint emitting surface which is going to cast a couple of stupid looking shadows. This looks like some sort of dealer add-on option. If it is factory - very poor execution.
Yep, Looks like a Nissan. Not elegant, but effective. Hey, the upfront engineering costs count too. My 2011 LEAF was embarrassingly inelegant under the skin, but is now a 3rd gen hand-me-down. The uncooled battery was awful, but cheerfully replaced twice under warranty. Today at 150k+ miles it is still perfect except for the paint and silly solar panel. Still on OEM brake pads.
Nissan has been through some really tough times, scandal and merger. The Ariya (have to look up spelling every time) Is the ideal EV for 2016 when it should have come out. I have a soft spot for Nissan and hope they find a way to be successful. Buyers will be happy with this car.
Tell me more about new Leaf cars. Do they have heating as well for the battery? What about pricing?
@@user-nu1vn3yy9s Leaf comes with a battery heater. The new Leaf has a new battery chemistry and with that, Nissan claims that air cooling is more than enough without losing battery range for several years provided you stay out of extreme hot temperatures as much as possible and avoid fast DC charging. I live in NE and there not worried about extreme hot situations over a period of two-three days continously (may be not next decade). Earlier I had a 2022 Leaf leased which over a period of 18 months, I observed no range degradation. So went ahead and bought a 2023 Leaf now.
Julian, why are you flexing bro!? 💪🤣😂
He lifts things up and puts them down.
There appears to be an air shutter just forward of the radiator/condenser
Really think you should prioritize a full teardown of the Ariya e-4orce model!
There ARE active shutters...look in there
👋
@@MunroLive hope you're well.
I thought they noticed that but were commenting that they were not on the outer surface. I like them being recessed to avoid damage.
Julian is a stud muffin
87 KWH battery and the rated range is under 300 miles?
Finally Ariya!!! 😍🥰❤
I like the externally attached wheel spats. It's like Nissan is acknowledging that these get damaged a lot, so they've given the owner an inexpensive way of replacing that part instead of making it part of a larger assembly that would be cost prohibitive to replace.
The LED side lights harness looks totally janky, and reminds me of some trailer light harnesses that zip tie to frames. Also like trailer light harnesses, are subject to damage from road debris and then the lights go out.
The Ariya definitely has AGS motors and actuators, at least my EU spec unit does, also I'm doing about 330 miles each charge with it, don't know why you are saying that it can't touch even 300 miles.
Also those underlights are dealer installed accessories, I have to note also that those lights are completely different design on EU spec Ariya's, I don't have light strips on mine but LED "ceiling" type ones.
is Nissan the first production car with full side underglow?!
Does anybody care?
That rear axle is directly from the ICE platform. Just missing the rear differential.
Nissan does love some air cooling; still.
I would be intrested in lean design or design validation training lead by Munro company. Trainings would a perfect product to buy from your website.
Reach out to sales@leandesign.com for training inquiries!
I have been wondering for a while now why these battery packs are not insulated. The material used on the space shuttle comes to mind. It is light weight and I'm sure Tesla can get some of this from Space X. These packs are liquid cooled and heated so I see no reason not to insulate as long as thee material is not too heavy. Insulation can go a long way when it comes to extreme climate areas. Anyone have any thoughts?
Is it mandatory to be jacked in order to work at Munro?
My fb friend David seems to love Nissan and Chinese vehicles.
I’m surprised the underside is not finished in piano glass black - every other high-impact, high-contact part on the Nissanorrhea is.
What is the battery chemistry of this vehicle? Can’t find it anywhere
I believe it is NMC and I’ve heard it is supplied by CATL.
@@geftthere’s an elektrek article from 2020 that says this, but the company won’t confirm it, and inside EVs says it’s Envision AESC. And if it’s NMC, how can you charge it to 100% every night and not get huge degradation? Massive oversight on Munro live to not mention the chemistry.
@@Aslash304 I think I heard about CATL in a video I watched. So not 100% sure about the manufacturer. I contacted Nissan about battery charging and they recommended stopping at 80%. Unfortunately the car doesn’t let you set a charge limit so I just have to have my EVSE cut off the charge by time. The agent I talked to indicated this feature is currently being worked.
so, the battery team has their act together but the rest of the vehicle is a shitshow?
Essentially part witch needs total redesign from zero is best. I wonder why other parts lack.... :D We know why. "we did things like that for years we will not change it now."
This really feels like a 'me too' product that was very delayed in delivery. and WTF is up with that excess wiring harness wrapped around a cleat?
It just isn't Munro without Munro.
Makes me appreciate the Tesla castings even more.
Wowwwww 2023 and they still have a PTC heater.
They don’t let you tear down the press cars? Sad.
Very sad
Overall impression is that this was designed by a lot of "sub-committees".
I bet the pro-pilot system isn't integrated into the vehicle sufficiently to utilize the existing TCC wheel speed sensors, so the vehicle had to have a second set.
I just see a lot of Nissans desperation to survive before they shutdown.
thanks
Welcome
I love the redundant wheel speed sensors.
Were front and aft shields removed for this video? TIA
That basically quadrupling the size of battery pack only gets you about double the range of Nissan's original 24 kWh car is something I find a bit sad. I strongly feel too much emphasis has been given lately to having SuperCar performance levels in what should basically be a family grocery getter sacrificing range on that alter in the bargain. In this pursuit of the high performance family car they are also sacrificing charging time since a 96 kWh battery takes much longer to charge than say a 48 kWh battery.
In the ICE world we saw this in the 1960's/1970's during the Muscle Car era when fuel tanks grew to well over 30 gallons as they put more emphasis on performance over economy installing 400+ cubic inch engines even in the family grocery getter and then the gas crisis arrived with gasoline rising to almost 40 cents per gallon which many said we weren't going to put with for very long and they were right because in short time it went to $1.40 a gallon. Imagine filling a 32 gallon fuel tank on your family grocery getter every week at today's fuel prices. That would be unacceptable for most people yet with the EV we see similar as more and more are getting close to and over 100 kWh battery packs to support larger more powerful electric motors then are really practical.
We need more EV's that get better than the 5 miles per kWh of a decade ago and not more that get less than half the range per kWh. Improvement in efficiency, aero, et-all should result in a measurable increase in miles per kWh and not large reductions in it. We appear to be making giant leaps backwards in efficiency. We should at least be where a 48 kWh car gives you more than double the range of a 24 kWh car from a decade ago.
Perhaps if enough of us push back on this manufacturers will take note and start making EV's that have more reasonable performance levels. They would also cost less to make and more people could then afford them.
Best!
I understand that, all things equal, a doubled capacity battery doesn't give you a doubled range because of increased weight. I don't think the issue is high performance motor. If you discharge an average 48kWh battery pack to 10C rate you still get a healthy 480kW of peak power. The problem is the focus on big SUV. The Ariya is heavier and have a larger frontal area compared to the Leaf. Despite being the Leaf a decade older, both cars are still made of stamped steel. Therefore I'm not surprised about the range.
@@theagentsmith The rub is though that all things are not equal.
The industry reports that they have made a 10% annual improvement in battery to weight ratio since then. The original Nissan Leaf was released in Japan with a 24 kWh battery 15 years ago in 2008. In 2023 that now would be a 150% improvement in power to weight so a battery that weighs the same as that original 24 kWh battery from 2008 would be 24+(24X150%=36)=60 kWh and a 96 kWh battery in 2023 should only weigh around 50% more than that original 24 kWh battery.
Add 15 years of improvement in aerodynamics, heat pump efficiency, etc, etc and one should expect, along with demand, much better range than we're getting from new EV's such the crossover Aria. The major things impacting range needlessly are the Extreme Pursuit of High Performance and Opulent Luxury over Efficiency which is also inflating the sticker prices.
As it sits today it appears that Aptera is the only one taking this bull by the horns and trying to push the envelope of efficiency.
Best!
Excellent content. However, the language used is unnecessarily complicated and imprecise. From a whatever perspective, kind of, like, you know .. Overuse of this type of language made my brain hurt.
2:47 the Ariya did not execute.. The people who designed it did not execute that, it wasn't the car.
Using this type of imprecise, woolly language brings down the quality of the presentation.
To put things into perspective (pun intended), the word perspective is used 16 times, so about every two minutes.
Kind of is used 26 times, so every minute. Like has about the same use.
You know is used no less than 42 times.
I hope this feedback leads to even better content.
Sorry, these videos aren’t scripted and we don’t do multiple takes. Our engineers take time out of their day to make these videos.
Where is the radiator shutter? Had those 10 years ago. Front wheel deflector and the rear wheel deflector are too small and expensive. The lower covers over the battery pack looks like a mess. Far too many parts and how many fixings do they need. Where is the attention to detail. Should be underflush front to rear with few joints as possible. I could go on. As an Ex-Nissan platform, I am pretty angry. No surprise the range is poor. D-
I'm asking: Does Monro guys help the companies to reduce costs, BUT make spares bigger in size - "integrated", so CUSTOMERS will pay way more for repairs/replacement?
Yes, cheaper to buy, but over the life cycle car owners will pay more !
Elon even wanted to make the entire battery one piece... so unlike older Tesla models, individual cells can't be replaced anymore.
Monroe seem to go against the "right to repair" - and the overall logic of sustainable economy.
Munroe makes money from helping manufactors to make cheaper cars with less parts. That does not mean the customers get a better car for the money...Munro is not a company that helps car buyers get the most car for their money...
You are making some assumptions that are incorrect. Each Tesla car has built-in diagnostics that can send back details to Tesla HQ about many things, including the cumulative number of miles driven by the car, details of slow/fast charging sessions, and the health of the car's battery. Tesla's analysis of such data during the past 15 years has convinced Tesla that battery packs typically last far longer than was assumed to be the case and, in fact, are likely to last the lifetime of a car. As such, Tesla decided it was best, overall, to optimize a car to have a difficult-to-remove structural battery pack in a car that could save weight (thus increasing range, which is good, and making cars more efficient, which is also good, not just for consumers but also for the environment), increase body strength and reduce manufacturing costs (which is good because some of the cost saving can be passed on to customers). In contrast, having an easy-to-remove battery pack in which some cells could be easily replaced would be not be worthwhile because the reliability of battery packs means there is rarely a need to replace individual cells in a battery pack, and an easy-to-remove battery pack would make it difficult to achieve the benefits offered by a structural battery pack.
In effect, a structural battery pack can offer several significant benefits while an easy-to-remove-and-repair battery pack can offer only one minor benefit, and it turns out that the significant benefits of a structural battery pack greatly outweigh benefits the minor benefit of an easy-to-remove-and-repair battery pack.
Your assertion that a non-repairable structural battery pack is incompatible with a sustainable economy is incorrect. This is because several companies (Tesla and Redwood Materials come to mind) have found a sustainably effective and cost-efficient way to recycle battery packs. In essence, a battery pack is ground down and the resulting material is treated as a high-grade ore that is then refined. To put some made-up numbers on this, let's assume ore mined from the ground contains 1% of one battery material and 99% non-useful materials. In contrast, a ground-up battery pack will contain a few percent of each of several useful battery materials. This much higher concentration of useful materials in a ground-up battery pack means that refining it to extract each of the useful materials is significantly more cost-effective (not to mention less damaging to the environment) than trying to refine low-grade ore that has been mined from the earth.
@@venti4268 Incorrect. Saying that Munro's business model aims to help manufacturers make "cheaper cars with fewer parts" omits that Munro helps manufacturers do that in a way that will make the cars *more reliable.* The increased reliability helps car buyers get better value.
@@CiaranMcHale The full Tesla mantras, thanks, no!
A LOT of Model S and X had battery failures, and cells were replaced. WAY cheaper than to go to full recycling.
Elon declarations are mostly PR in nature, so strange some people still believe them.
Older 16500 and 2170 cells from Tesla cars were UP-cycled into some energy storage devices.
ANY well-educated ecologist will say it's way better for environment.
BUT Tesla wanted to grab everything, limiting access to repair.
Elon might be making a huge mistake... his cars could be made illegal to sell in some places. Soon.
@@venti4268 Munro always talk about that (Yours) way of thinking! You do not see woods because of one tree. If there are more producers that mean offer is much bigger and competion is bigger which results with droping prices. For quality of EV, you do not have to worry because of IEC 61851, UL 2594 and UL 2202, ISO 12405, ISO 18243, and ISO 15118 and so on... which I do not have a clue what they are but i know that every EV producer must produce EV's acording to those (and many others) rules. The picture is, REALY (and i realy mean - REALY) much bigger then You do see it! I hope it would be helpful in some way. Regards and all the best.
Это самый надежный электромобиль из всех других.. Ниссан Лиф с 2011 года доказал.. нет не одной поломки редуктора Лиф
Typical Nissan shortcuts. They could do so much better!
Has Cory shared any of that Saudi money?