Sorry but 1,580 hp could not have happened. I know everyone says it but there is zero evidence and even less evidence that it ever raced with that kind of power. Ian Bamsey, not known for showing restraint in these matters*, wrote that on one occasion, the engine was in a test chamber and may have been putting out as much as 1,500 hp when it blew up. Remember too that this was 1973 and boost dials were not calibrated like they are today. So there’s no way to get any kind of precise idea of what it was producing when the knob was fully wound out. This engine was descended from the 908, which produced 350-375 hp from three litres and eight cylinders. With an extra four cylinders, the engine became the 912 and came out of the box at about 540 hp, which scales almost perfectly. Bored out to 4.9 litres, the normally aspirated 912 _might_ have made 620 but 600 is likely the top. This was the engine that powered the vast bulk of endurance racing 917s in 1970-71. For CanAm, it was eventually enlarged to 5.4 litres and turbocharged. The Eberspacher turbos came from truck engines and were probably sourced from some far flung arm of Roger Penske’s trucking empire. In any case, they were never designed with racing in mind. In 1973, the best F1 engines were making about 160 hp/litre. The old 908 was good for 125 hp/litre at best. If this figure is to be believed then it must have been making 292.59 hp/litre. Yes, it was turbocharged. Yes it was beefed up. But there are some things that could not be changed. The original 912 block was made up of two flat sixes with the power take off and the cooling fan in the middle. The cylinders were simply bolted on individually and it shared the same valve gear as the original. Because it was air cooled, it was necessarily less rigid than a conventional water cooled engine. Even allowing for beefing up, 292 hp per litre is an awful lot to ask of components that were designed for a maximum of 125. As power doubles, the internal stresses quadruple. So those components would have to be very much stronger indeed than their ancestors, which simultaneously increases rotating mass. But the biggest problem was the length of the engine. It was very long and this meant it suffered from flex. Flex will eventually lead to components not aligning properly and ultimately engine failure. And that harder you push it, the more likely that is to happen. Even if I accept the race figure of 1,100 hp - which I do - that still nearly 204 hp/litre. The normally quoted maximum in the day was 1,400 and that is nearly 260. At 1,580 hp, each cylinder would have to make 131.66 hp… from components that were originally designed for 46.9 hp per cylinder. Boost up to two atmospheres was also highly unlikely and 1.3-1.4 was far more likely. I don’t expect everyone to just believe me but an Adam Carolla interview with a Porsche engineer who was actually working on the engine referred to that figure. Again, the boost was not calibrated. The claims for this engine are simply implausible. *When the Sauber C9 did 400 km/h at Le Mans, Bamsey wrote that it did 410. Despite all the evidence to the contrary, he has stuck with this figure.
One of the most revered engines and beautiful at that but no need to be sorry you’re just stating common sense facts, that being said it doesn’t take away it was an amazing motor
@@SSR2696 *_"Boost gauges not calibrated in 1973... now who's stretching the narrative here."_* I did not say they weren’t calibrated. I said they weren’t calibrated like they are today. They were nothing like today's computerised, accurate-to-a-billionth, gauges. Not 'stretching the narrative' at all. Certainly not reverse proof that '1,580 hp!' was ever a possibility.
I am not sure about the boost dials reliability you refer to; I mean: there is no rocket science behind these instruments, but rocket science was already there thirty years before. In other words, I assume the existing technology at that point in history allowed this kind of tools to be properly tuned to give a reliable reading. Anyway, I really appreciated your comment: sometimes, someone has done its homework here.
WoW 1580HP Air Cooled Crazy only 20psi when could be 40psi 12Cylinder @8kRPM Nioce 👍 Iwant one and I'll stick it in my Prelude ;')4kMPH haha can go over 165MPH w 135HP so imagine over 10x that would make my 2200LB 1000KG Beast a RocketShip like a Koenigsegg just more Jamky perhaps haha
A beast of an engine
Thanks for the close up look at this amazing engine.
That engine is wild
It's amazing what engineering can do when rules and budgets do not get in the way. AWESOME
Hollow titanium screws to save weight. Serious!
I remember them. My favorite racer of All Time. Killed Cam Am though.
💪🇩🇪💪💪👏👏👏
Pure power/🎉
I see an engine but I hear a watch. 😂
Yes 😢
I hear a piece of steel being torn into two pieces when it revs😮
Safety was secondary! Now safety ruined most of racing!
Sorry but 1,580 hp could not have happened. I know everyone says it but there is zero evidence and even less evidence that it ever raced with that kind of power. Ian Bamsey, not known for showing restraint in these matters*, wrote that on one occasion, the engine was in a test chamber and may have been putting out as much as 1,500 hp when it blew up.
Remember too that this was 1973 and boost dials were not calibrated like they are today. So there’s no way to get any kind of precise idea of what it was producing when the knob was fully wound out.
This engine was descended from the 908, which produced 350-375 hp from three litres and eight cylinders. With an extra four cylinders, the engine became the 912 and came out of the box at about 540 hp, which scales almost perfectly. Bored out to 4.9 litres, the normally aspirated 912 _might_ have made 620 but 600 is likely the top.
This was the engine that powered the vast bulk of endurance racing 917s in 1970-71.
For CanAm, it was eventually enlarged to 5.4 litres and turbocharged. The Eberspacher turbos came from truck engines and were probably sourced from some far flung arm of Roger Penske’s trucking empire. In any case, they were never designed with racing in mind.
In 1973, the best F1 engines were making about 160 hp/litre. The old 908 was good for 125 hp/litre at best. If this figure is to be believed then it must have been making 292.59 hp/litre.
Yes, it was turbocharged. Yes it was beefed up. But there are some things that could not be changed. The original 912 block was made up of two flat sixes with the power take off and the cooling fan in the middle. The cylinders were simply bolted on individually and it shared the same valve gear as the original. Because it was air cooled, it was necessarily less rigid than a conventional water cooled engine.
Even allowing for beefing up, 292 hp per litre is an awful lot to ask of components that were designed for a maximum of 125. As power doubles, the internal stresses quadruple. So those components would have to be very much stronger indeed than their ancestors, which simultaneously increases rotating mass.
But the biggest problem was the length of the engine. It was very long and this meant it suffered from flex. Flex will eventually lead to components not aligning properly and ultimately engine failure. And that harder you push it, the more likely that is to happen.
Even if I accept the race figure of 1,100 hp - which I do - that still nearly 204 hp/litre. The normally quoted maximum in the day was 1,400 and that is nearly 260. At 1,580 hp, each cylinder would have to make 131.66 hp… from components that were originally designed for 46.9 hp per cylinder.
Boost up to two atmospheres was also highly unlikely and 1.3-1.4 was far more likely. I don’t expect everyone to just believe me but an Adam Carolla interview with a Porsche engineer who was actually working on the engine referred to that figure. Again, the boost was not calibrated.
The claims for this engine are simply implausible.
*When the Sauber C9 did 400 km/h at Le Mans, Bamsey wrote that it did 410. Despite all the evidence to the contrary, he has stuck with this figure.
One of the most revered engines and beautiful at that but no need to be sorry you’re just stating common sense facts, that being said it doesn’t take away it was an amazing motor
Boost gauges not calibrated in 1973... now who's stretching the narrative here.
@@SSR2696
*_"Boost gauges not calibrated in 1973... now who's stretching the narrative here."_*
I did not say they weren’t calibrated. I said they weren’t calibrated like they are today.
They were nothing like today's computerised, accurate-to-a-billionth, gauges.
Not 'stretching the narrative' at all. Certainly not reverse proof that '1,580 hp!' was ever a possibility.
@@davidantiwan930 It was indeed.
I am not sure about the boost dials reliability you refer to; I mean: there is no rocket science behind these instruments, but rocket science was already there thirty years before. In other words, I assume the existing technology at that point in history allowed this kind of tools to be properly tuned to give a reliable reading. Anyway, I really appreciated your comment: sometimes, someone has done its homework here.
WoW 1580HP Air Cooled Crazy only 20psi when could be 40psi 12Cylinder @8kRPM Nioce 👍 Iwant one and I'll stick it in my Prelude ;')4kMPH haha can go over 165MPH w 135HP so imagine over 10x that would make my 2200LB 1000KG Beast a RocketShip like a Koenigsegg just more Jamky perhaps haha
165mph in your dreams 😂