Imagine taking this type of engine back in time to the early automotive pioneers and asking them what they think of it. It's kinda insane how it's at its essentials still very close to what was done very early on, but just so much more advanced it feels like an entirely different thing.
@@Flying_Fetusway different! An Otto cycle engine is something that would be recognized and has not changed at its basics. But a smartphone with its silicon wafer chips, transistors, led/lcd screens, lithium batteries, gps, it’s all unrecognizable to an early to mid 1900’s person.
@ sure it would. Phone with no cord. That has a screen that plays music with no tube amps, movies without film or a projector. Non of it would be recognizable. Whereas a four stroke engine has not changed a bit. Just more efficient and better materials.
Back in 2017 Porsche actually made a clay model of a potential 919 Street version which would have used the same carbon fiber monocoque and drivetrain as the LMP1 car. Unfortunately they never built an actual street legal 919 which is sad because it would have been the perfect successor to the 911 GT1 from the GT1 era of Le Mans.
Why? Are you shopping for a $2,000,000 supercar to drive 500 miles over the next 20 years? How about: ditch the hybrid, and maybe even the turbo, and put it in a small, narrow, light successor to the 944 (that fits in the road)... like a Porsche version of the GT86
@@colinbowman8816 Acting like the V4 wouldn’t be crazy expensive part either. Putting this race engine in any street car is going to be prohibitively expensive as we have seen with any time any OEM tries to do it and it would loose most of what made it special as a race engine.
Man I just love LMP1/LMPH technology. Can you also do a video about 4.0l V6 TDI ? I haven't seen the engine discussed in detail anywhere. Sure the V12 TDI but not the V6. When I saw that thing irl it looked like another complicated beast.
I too would love to see a similar breakdown of the Audi 3.7/4.0 LMP1 diesels. It's potentially a huge subject because comparisons could be made between the involved manufacturers such as Peugeot and Toyota. Or another route could be the evolution of LMP1 diesels from the original 5.5 litre V12's all the way to either Audi's withdrawal at the end of 2016, or the end of the LMP1 era. That I would love to see. You do great work and we appreciate it.
THIS IS WHY I LOVE THIS CHANNEL ,,,,,, I NEED TO TRULY UNDERSTAND HOW THESE FANTASTIC PIECES OF WONDER REALLY WORK THANKS SO MUCH AND LOOKING FORWARD TO MANY MORE INTERESTING VIDEOS 🙏🙏🙏
Well, it's the Dr. Ing. h.c. Ferdinand Porsche AG, not the Porsche AG. Up until the 2000s, it was registered as an engineering bureau and not a manufacturer. They still are consultants for other companies in matters of company consulting as well as engineering consulting. Many famous brands have to thank Porsche for some of their best engines. Many brands have to thank Ferdinand Piëch to exist at all and have survived for that matter.
Thanks a lot for this video! I was trying to find some deeper technical details of this engine for a long time without much success. The same could be said about Audi's 4 liter V6 TDI for Le Mans ... would be great if you can cover that one too 😊
Thank you for the really interesting video about the V4 engine. Maybe you have the time and information to do a video about the FRIC suspension on the LMP1 cars? I would love to understand the system that kept the aerodynamic platform on these magnificent cars stable.
Mate, that was good. Were they also using pre-chamber ignition like in F1? LMP1s were the most technologically advanced racecars have been ever built. OK, F1 has a more advanced aero, but the powertrain engineers could thrive within the LMP ruleset.
For the English-as-a-second-language folks, the word "less" only refers to things which can't be counted. Less milk. Less love. Less pain. For ALL things which can be counted, the word "fewer" is required. Fewer cylinders. Fewer pitstops. Fewer injuries. Now you know!!
Love your vids, m8! Another great piece this one is! 👏🏻😁 Back then, I thought they had simply gone for a "cut" version of what would later become the EA-824/825 4.0L V8 twin turbo, but I'm glad, seeing this vid, that this was an entirely new design. Still wished Porsche did a street-legal version of this 2.0L unit. Though normally I'm a big fan of the biggest engines, V8's, V10's and whatnot, despite being "just" a 2.0L 4-cylinder, I like this powerplant, definitely deserved a spot in the brand's lineup. 😎👍🏻
The 919 has such a unique engine sound thanks to the V4. The Toyota V6 sounds very "cultivated", the R18 is almost inaudible, but the 919 has such a unique "roughness" in its sound
Awesome video. This makes me think of what engine layout (V/W, inline, boxer, rotary) is best for F1 in terms of aerodynamics. I think, other than the rotary, inline engine will provide more possibilities to make body slim. It cand be even mounted transversely so intake and cooling is at the front and exhaust is on the back of the engine. Turbo routing and clutch/gearbox placement might be the problem though. Boxer layout might make the body lower even if center of mass is higher, but slimness is more beneficial than height isn't it?
Hey, ich habe mal eine kleine Frage. Ich habe im Bereich Elektrotechnik/Technische Informatik studiert und arbeite seit 2 Jahren in einem Prüflabor, welches viel mit der Automobilindustrie arbeitet. Ich würde jetzt gerne tiefer in die Fahrzeugtechnik eintauchen, kennst du da allgemein anerkannte Weiterbildungsmöglichkeiten, die du empfehlen kannst? Ich möchte jetzt nicht unbedingt noch ein Studium beginnen, wenn das möglich wäre ^^
if F1 really wants to go all in on the hybrid concept they should've based the 2026 powertrain regulations on the 919. a smaller, lighter 4 cylinder, motors on both axles for more regen as well as AWD, and not ditching the MGU-H. the concept of the 919 is still cutting edge today, let alone 10 years ago.
Ducati ( also a member of Audi group) makes 998cc V4 that makes 250hp for WSBK and 300hp for MotoGP. 2L V4 for 500hp should be easy if they already makes 1L V4 that produced 250-300hp.
I'm not an expert but I believe the two issues are: 1) those engines rev MUCH higher than the Porsche engine does (and have the lack of torque to show for it) in order to make the power they do, and 2) this is an engine that has to last 24 hours, and I don't think you'd see the same power levels on motorcycles that are running such long races.
This is an interesting series. This Porsche engine has clear production potential to replace the ageing flat 6 in the context of downsizing and shifting some of the middle aged spread (about 400 kg too much) of the current 911. I have been fascinated by the Toyota Yaris GR engine and (unless I have missed it), could you explore this subject?
I wonder if F1 engine rules was more open with the new limited fuel for 2026 rules if V4 could have been better. Hope one day to see anything similar to LMP1 again. Todays Hypercars are doing similar lap times to what LMP2 used to do and Group C in the 90s.
Doubt it. We just don't see what F1 doing with their engines. Imgine what valve systems or injection system they're using now if the only limit is fuel flow, they have to juice every hp of it
DualBoost turbocharger was used from 2015. In 2014 Porsche was racing with "standard" turbo, custom-developed for them lightweigh version of TR30 - design that originated from the turbo created for Toyota TS020. Porsche, actually Alex Hitzinger, decided taking TR30 will be a safer choice as "there is already a lot o new a risky stuff in this car".
I can remember the Porsche engineer told about problems with broken drivetrain shafts. So i think they changed ignition from a V4 Ducati Style to a Aprilia V4 Style. Awesome engine with double hybrid system. Break recovery at the front axle and electric wastegate for the turbo. Maximum Hybrid Performance. Three times 24 H Le Mans Winning Car well deserved.
Remember the four cam Carrera engine from the 50s/60s ? Ridiculously complex and could only be timed with dial gauges. This engine reminds me of that one.
The "standard V4" crankshaft shown at 8:29 would be from the *Taunus* engine (designed by Ford in the USA and built by Ford Germany in Cologne), not an engine from the Taurus (which never had a V4). Ford also had a Essex V4, of a different but similar design.
I have another very interesting Engine you could go into, The Polestar V8 60° Yamaha engine, the roadgoing one has offset pins on the crank and the raceengine has a flatplane crankshaft
@ArneChristianRosenfeldt i know i dont like them either but they used the same enginebin the noble m600 with twin turbos and it seems to work great, just dont know if the have split pins or not, but someone claims that its the oem crank in them too, thats why i would like some more info about this engine and for someone to dig deep and find out or explain why and how
So the exhaust drives the turbo like a regular turbo with a turbine and compressor and then when the valve switches, it drives a second compressor that just generates electric for the front axle motor? Im slightly confused
@BSport320 ah right I see, thanks for clarifying, I'm guessing that explains why in SIM games that's why it regens hybrid energy slowly on throttle when other LMP1s don't
Your description of the firing order is confusing. I own a 2001 Honda VFR800 which is a 90 degree V-4 engine so I'm very familiar with it. How can cylinder 3 fire "180 degrees after cylinder 1" then cylinder 1 and cylinder 3 are on the same crankshaft bearing while being located in separate cylinder banks that are set at a 90 degree angle?
@@BSport320and I thought that we use V engines to have less cranks and bearings per piston. But I also don’t understand why Porsche boxer needs 7 main bearings instead of 4.
@@ArneChristianRosenfeldt Porsche puts a main bearing between each throw, for better crankshaft support. Since none of the throws are shared in a boxer or an even-firing V4, this makes sense.
@ in the VW type 1 the crank goes straight through to the other side. So much more length is available for bearing surface. More space means that the crankshaft can be hollowed out more, making it stiffer “globally”.
The engine never proved to be unreliable in the long Le Mans races, with all those components to handle. Money well spent, all those hundreds of millions didn't get wasted
Porsche sort of threw all that discussion about engine friction out the window when they made a 5-main-bearing crankshaft for the V4. They already had high friction by having 4 cams with three bearings each. They could have made the same good things happen with an L4. The bottoming-cycle turbogenerator is my favorite part of the car. But I didn't expect the electronic control valve to distribute exhaust gas to the turbo, turbogenerator, and wastegate. Since the exhaust from this engine was probably around 1000C, the level of engineering to get the control valve to operate reliably is impressive.
Maybe the confusion I'm getting from your description of the engine's firing order is caused by the drawing of the crankshaft you're using. The crankshaft drawing in your video is of a flat-plane crankshaft (also known as the "180 degree" crankshaft). The firing order you're describing for the redesign (second attempt due to vibration issues) could not be accomplished with a flat-plane crankshaft.
I‘m using a 90deg crankshaft in both cases. A flat crankshaft wouldn’t create a smooth firing gap on a V4, which would create bigger problems in racing.
@@ArneChristianRosenfeldt re: "bikes don’t seem to care in racing". correct, Ducati famously uses a 270 degree split of the crankshaft between the 2 banks because what they're ultimately doing is running their V4 as two V2's side by side. both V2's have ideal primary and secondary balance all on their own which means you can select WHATEVER degree of split because the balance of the whole assembly doesn't change, the only thing that changes is the way power is delivered to the rear tire (ie, maximizing mechanical grip while maintaining tire life over race distance has always been their goal)... also of note, due to the efficiency of the V4 layout (combined with Desmo) while they've not always been winning Championships, what they have always been doing is holding and resetting the Top Speed Records (~364kph). it's only in the past 2 years that other teams have matched or exceeded the speeds they were recording for the last 20 years. in this time none of their racers have ever complained about "wanting more power", sure they've wanted a half dozen OTHER things but never more power. if anything, they've had to DIAL BACK the power over the years to keep fuel consumption in check due to rules regarding maximum fuel capacity.
@@phillyphil1513 I think that a 90° V2 only has first order balance. A flat-2 has perfect balance when you look along the shaft, but some rocking motion due to the offset. You don't mean knife and fork arrangement? I could put a crankshaft from an inline-4 into a flat-2. Two conrods per piston similar to that 8 valve engine. Perfect balance.
The drawings do not show flat-plane cranks, but they are shown at a position which places two throws in the plane perpendicular to the page so you can't see which way they go. A perspective or isometric rendering would be much more clear.
The firing order of a 90 degree V-4 engine that has a flat plane crankshaft is as follows: cylinder 1 fires, then 180 degrees later cylinder 2 fires, then 270 degrees later cylinder 3 fires, then 180 degrees later cylinder 4 fires. After cylinder 4 fires there's 90 degrees of crankshaft rotation before the 720 degree 4 stroke cycle begins again with cylinder number 1.
Yes, if it has shared crankpins and 180 degrees between throws (so it is flat-plane). This V4 does not have shared crankpins, or a flat-plane crankshaft.
V4 engine of Zaporozhets has 1-3-4-2 firing order and evenly firing every 180°. Here you can see how a balancing shaft was made to eliminate vibrations (balancing shaft was placed inside camshaft): th-cam.com/video/hy9V5sRq0zw/w-d-xo.htmlsi=qv9GYsEnuWA73are
A flat plane 360° crank and uneven firing interval would have made the crank lighter and stronger while spreading the load across the journals. The split journal thing to me is strange.
Because for 1324, 180deg after 3 fired, cylinder 1 is in top dead centre again, and 2 needs to be as well to fire. So 1 and 2 would habe the same crank direction as well as 3 and 4. So there would be a huge imbalance.
re: "Wow i would have gotten the firing order right first time". exactly, it's not like Porsche hasn't already built V8's off and on for the last 47 years (ref: the 928) and of course if/when you're building an engine for WEC, the target parameters of RELIABILITY and minimal FUEL CONSUMPTION have essentially been "pre-sets" for your team before you even turn on a single CAD Computer. least fuel consumption over 24 hours was what Audi and Peugot's use of Diesel was about back during the LMP-1 era.
Very surpassing they didn’t go for the v6 given f1 at the time, and knowing the regulations for engines atleast would be stable for a very long time. Now given the fuel flow reduction for 2026 Porsche would have been in prime position with their knowledge on the bigger batteries and a limited fuel flow rate on a v6 if they had gone that way.
They really should have. That would have been the time to do it, and it would be a really really interesting thing to be offering in an entry level car. But that's not something they've been interested in doing since the 914. They've been banking on pumping the prestige of the 911 extremely hard.
I am not an engineer, cars are not my passion, but I love these videos for the density of information and having to think outside what I am used to. So .... ignorant questions. I had never thought about a boxer using opposing pistons to balance out each other's vibration, or about the air in the crankcase expanding and compressing and creating resistance. My non-engineer's mind wonders ... 1. If the two cylinders were timed 180° apart, wouldn't that remove the air expansion/compression problem, since one pair's compressed air would naturally flow into the expanding pair. 2. What if each pair of pistons were not opposed but moved in the same direction, while the two pairs were 90° apart -- would each pair balance the other pair? I think there'd be a new torque component and that might be too much of its own vibration. 3. Or could the crankcase just be open to the outside air to reduce compression resistance?
Thanks and very good questions. In a 4 cylinder boxer air from one pair flows to the other pair as you said, but this internal flow creates resistance. So in motorsport even the internal aerodynamics of crankcases are optimised to reduce resistance. And you are right, if we change an engine from a boxer to a 180deg V (opposite pistons hang on the same crank), you just move air from left to right without compressing it. That’s why 180deg V12s were popular in racing. But even that still creates some resistance. So the best thing is to evacuate the crankcase…
@@BSport320 Thanks very much. Strange to think that just shuffling the air back and forth creates measurable resistance, but they wouldn't optimise the internal aerodynamics just for fun. And I hadn't thought of a boxer as a 180deg V. I'll have to research this. And again, thanks. ETA: Got it! Because boxer pistons move in opposite directions for counterbalancing, they have to have separate crankshaft connections. But if a 180deg V moves the pistons in the same direction, they can share the crankshaft connection. Boy, reality sure doesn't make it easy for you guys.
There have been many V4 engines, but relatively few in cars. The only common V4 car engines that I can think of are the Ford Essex, Ford Taunus, and V4 - none of which were 90 degree engines - plus the Zaporozhets.
Imagine taking this type of engine back in time to the early automotive pioneers and asking them what they think of it. It's kinda insane how it's at its essentials still very close to what was done very early on, but just so much more advanced it feels like an entirely different thing.
Kinda like buying Grandma a smart phone.
@@Flying_Fetusway different! An Otto cycle engine is something that would be recognized and has not changed at its basics. But a smartphone with its silicon wafer chips, transistors, led/lcd screens, lithium batteries, gps, it’s all unrecognizable to an early to mid 1900’s person.
They had landline phones, radio, movies etc. Explaining concept of smartphone wouldn't be totally outside of their world.
@ sure it would. Phone with no cord. That has a screen that plays music with no tube amps, movies without film or a projector. Non of it would be recognizable. Whereas a four stroke engine has not changed a bit. Just more efficient and better materials.
Honestly, I would be happy, even if Porsche decided to fit that V4 engine in 918 successor.
Or maybe in a new cayman 😂 hybrids can be really cool
Back in 2017 Porsche actually made a clay model of a potential 919 Street version which would have used the same carbon fiber monocoque and drivetrain as the LMP1 car. Unfortunately they never built an actual street legal 919 which is sad because it would have been the perfect successor to the 911 GT1 from the GT1 era of Le Mans.
Why? Are you shopping for a $2,000,000 supercar to drive 500 miles over the next 20 years?
How about: ditch the hybrid, and maybe even the turbo, and put it in a small, narrow, light successor to the 944 (that fits in the road)... like a Porsche version of the GT86
@@fruhlingsbilderAnd with their new MGUH. IDK if all that would fit in a Cayman, but I bet it would get great mileage as well as being power dense.
@@colinbowman8816 Acting like the V4 wouldn’t be crazy expensive part either. Putting this race engine in any street car is going to be prohibitively expensive as we have seen with any time any OEM tries to do it and it would loose most of what made it special as a race engine.
Man I just love LMP1/LMPH technology. Can you also do a video about 4.0l V6 TDI ? I haven't seen the engine discussed in detail anywhere. Sure the V12 TDI but not the V6. When I saw that thing irl it looked like another complicated beast.
Good idea, I will put it on my list
I too would love to see a similar breakdown of the Audi 3.7/4.0 LMP1 diesels. It's potentially a huge subject because comparisons could be made between the involved manufacturers such as Peugeot and Toyota. Or another route could be the evolution of LMP1 diesels from the original 5.5 litre V12's all the way to either Audi's withdrawal at the end of 2016, or the end of the LMP1 era. That I would love to see. You do great work and we appreciate it.
Saw these crazy cars at Le Mans twice. The way they built up speed when accelerating on the start/finish straight was other worldly
I wish. I know just by watching on a screen how it'll never do it full justice. Thanks for sharing
Awesome timing on the video! I am trying to 3D print a v4 engine at the moment, so all the information I can get is helpful.
Glad it was helpful!
When you let engineers engineer some beautiful things happen. Because this is so unnecessarily complicated but also very necessary. Damn
THIS IS WHY I LOVE THIS CHANNEL ,,,,,, I NEED TO TRULY UNDERSTAND HOW THESE FANTASTIC PIECES OF WONDER REALLY WORK THANKS SO MUCH AND LOOKING FORWARD TO MANY MORE INTERESTING VIDEOS 🙏🙏🙏
Well, it's the Dr. Ing. h.c. Ferdinand Porsche AG, not the Porsche AG. Up until the 2000s, it was registered as an engineering bureau and not a manufacturer. They still are consultants for other companies in matters of company consulting as well as engineering consulting. Many famous brands have to thank Porsche for some of their best engines. Many brands have to thank Ferdinand Piëch to exist at all and have survived for that matter.
Wie immer ein top aufgearbeitetes Video. Es macht immer wieder Laune die Technik zu bewundern.
Vielen Dank und sehe ich genauso.
Thanks a lot for this video! I was trying to find some deeper technical details of this engine for a long time without much success. The same could be said about Audi's 4 liter V6 TDI for Le Mans ... would be great if you can cover that one too 😊
Thanks and will do
Thank you for the really interesting video about the V4 engine.
Maybe you have the time and information to do a video about the FRIC suspension on the LMP1 cars?
I would love to understand the system that kept the aerodynamic platform on these magnificent cars stable.
Love the firing order discussion, a lesser known key to performance... Thxalot for a lot of knowledge squeezed into a compact Vid 👍
Damn, that exhaust collector design could make a whole video of its own!
Incredible video! as always
Glad you enjoyed it!
I have been looking forward for this video for a while! Thanks for the research!
My pleasure!
Mate, that was good. Were they also using pre-chamber ignition like in F1? LMP1s were the most technologically advanced racecars have been ever built. OK, F1 has a more advanced aero, but the powertrain engineers could thrive within the LMP ruleset.
Yes, a passive TJI system was implemented right before Le Mans 2017 to allow for a stable combustion at lambda=1.3.
For the English-as-a-second-language folks, the word "less" only refers to things which can't be counted. Less milk. Less love. Less pain.
For ALL things which can be counted, the word "fewer" is required. Fewer cylinders. Fewer pitstops. Fewer injuries.
Now you know!!
I always had trouble teaching this. Putting it in those terms really helps
Love your vids, m8! Another great piece this one is! 👏🏻😁
Back then, I thought they had simply gone for a "cut" version of what would later become the EA-824/825 4.0L V8 twin turbo, but I'm glad, seeing this vid, that this was an entirely new design.
Still wished Porsche did a street-legal version of this 2.0L unit. Though normally I'm a big fan of the biggest engines, V8's, V10's and whatnot, despite being "just" a 2.0L 4-cylinder, I like this powerplant, definitely deserved a spot in the brand's lineup. 😎👍🏻
Superb detail analysis. Still one of the best racing machines in history!
Also, will you ever do an analysis on the 917?
Thanks and of course, but 917 is a huge topic
The 919 has such a unique engine sound thanks to the V4. The Toyota V6 sounds very "cultivated", the R18 is almost inaudible, but the 919 has such a unique "roughness" in its sound
This is fantastic, i need to watch all of these. Fantastic work
You are the best on youtube , the best videos!! And could you do also a MotoGp one 💪😄
Thanks, and will do
I hadn't clocked the flow through the block before. This answered a lot of questions I'd had since those pics became public.
Thanks it is amazing as usual. At 8:17 what makes you to "say" (rather think) that camshaft(s) are rotating in the same direction as the crankshaft?
Good point, I couldn’t see the gearbox but assumed same rotation
Awesome video. This makes me think of what engine layout (V/W, inline, boxer, rotary) is best for F1 in terms of aerodynamics.
I think, other than the rotary, inline engine will provide more possibilities to make body slim. It cand be even mounted transversely so intake and cooling is at the front and exhaust is on the back of the engine. Turbo routing and clutch/gearbox placement might be the problem though.
Boxer layout might make the body lower even if center of mass is higher, but slimness is more beneficial than height isn't it?
V configuration engines are used because they are fully stressed members of the car chassis and offer major structural advantages.
@wiegraf9009 ok but let's imagine that car has a chassis so engine isn't structural part of it
@@RCmaniac667 Sure, then it won't be as rigid unless you waste weight adding reinforcements
@wiegraf9009 well yes
What a great video! Thank you much for making it 👏👏
Glad you enjoyed it!
I want that motor or something similar in a motorcycle. Porsche could probably make stunningly awesome motorcycles.
Great great video, thanks for covering a truly unique engine from a truly unique race car.
Great video as always...we really luv&respect what you do. Aloha🤙🏽
Amazing story! Thanks mate! 🙏🏁
Oh come on, how complicated can V4 ge-
Jesus Christ
Biblicly accurate 4cyl
Amazing Engine and fantastic analysis. 💯💯👏👏👍👍
Hey, ich habe mal eine kleine Frage.
Ich habe im Bereich Elektrotechnik/Technische Informatik studiert und arbeite seit 2 Jahren in einem Prüflabor, welches viel mit der Automobilindustrie arbeitet.
Ich würde jetzt gerne tiefer in die Fahrzeugtechnik eintauchen, kennst du da allgemein anerkannte Weiterbildungsmöglichkeiten, die du empfehlen kannst?
Ich möchte jetzt nicht unbedingt noch ein Studium beginnen, wenn das möglich wäre ^^
if F1 really wants to go all in on the hybrid concept they should've based the 2026 powertrain regulations on the 919. a smaller, lighter 4 cylinder, motors on both axles for more regen as well as AWD, and not ditching the MGU-H. the concept of the 919 is still cutting edge today, let alone 10 years ago.
Ducati ( also a member of Audi group) makes 998cc V4 that makes 250hp for WSBK and 300hp for MotoGP. 2L V4 for 500hp should be easy if they already makes 1L V4 that produced 250-300hp.
I'm not an expert but I believe the two issues are:
1) those engines rev MUCH higher than the Porsche engine does (and have the lack of torque to show for it) in order to make the power they do, and
2) this is an engine that has to last 24 hours, and I don't think you'd see the same power levels on motorcycles that are running such long races.
This is an interesting series. This Porsche engine has clear production potential to replace the ageing flat 6 in the context of downsizing and shifting some of the middle aged spread (about 400 kg too much) of the current 911.
I have been fascinated by the Toyota Yaris GR engine and (unless I have missed it), could you explore this subject?
I wonder if F1 engine rules was more open with the new limited fuel for 2026 rules if V4 could have been better. Hope one day to see anything similar to LMP1 again. Todays Hypercars are doing similar lap times to what LMP2 used to do and Group C in the 90s.
If F1 engine is free, everyone will still go towards winning ideas regardless of how diverse it is at the start
Can you talk about the toyota lmp1 cars too? Back then they had a supercapacitor paired to a super formula engine
I think that it could do around 8-8.2 seconds in the quarter mile.
No, it can't! Starting from a dig and takes time.
id say 9
These kind of cars are not made for dragracing.. but a roll race would be intresting
Great stuff, thanks! Are there sound files of both firing orders? Would be interesting to hear the difference.
Should be the same, not? Still the same time delay between each firing, and all collect in the same exhaust chamber.
Yes, you’re right since both banks feeds one turbo and both banks have the same header length.
@@AR_434 Lucky guess, then! I didn't consider those aspects...because I don't know about them!
i have a feeling that WEC is more advanced and complicated than Formula 1...
It really isn't
Back then it possibly was.
Tools for the drivers to play with, yes they are. In terms of mechanical and aerodynamic technology, it’s not even close. F1 is far more advanced.
Maybe during the LMP1HY Era, those are spaceships
Doubt it. We just don't see what F1 doing with their engines. Imgine what valve systems or injection system they're using now if the only limit is fuel flow, they have to juice every hp of it
Id like to know more about that double turbo
DualBoost turbocharger was used from 2015. In 2014 Porsche was racing with "standard" turbo, custom-developed for them lightweigh version of TR30 - design that originated from the turbo created for Toyota TS020. Porsche, actually Alex Hitzinger, decided taking TR30 will be a safer choice as "there is already a lot o new a risky stuff in this car".
What would be u opinion about Acura coming in with HRC in moto go about making a V4 like in their moto GP project
I can remember the Porsche engineer told about problems with broken drivetrain shafts. So i think they changed ignition from a V4 Ducati Style to a Aprilia V4 Style. Awesome engine with double hybrid system. Break recovery at the front axle and electric wastegate for the turbo. Maximum Hybrid Performance. Three times 24 H Le Mans Winning Car well deserved.
Remember the four cam Carrera engine from the 50s/60s ? Ridiculously complex and could only be timed with dial gauges. This engine reminds me of that one.
Interesting, but no discussion about the sparkless homogeneous combustion process?
the what now? Never heard of that
The "standard V4" crankshaft shown at 8:29 would be from the *Taunus* engine (designed by Ford in the USA and built by Ford Germany in Cologne), not an engine from the Taurus (which never had a V4). Ford also had a Essex V4, of a different but similar design.
Very true, it’s the Taunus
I have another very interesting Engine you could go into, The Polestar V8 60° Yamaha engine, the roadgoing one has offset pins on the crank and the raceengine has a flatplane crankshaft
Offset (split?) pins are ugly.
@ArneChristianRosenfeldt i know i dont like them either but they used the same enginebin the noble m600 with twin turbos and it seems to work great, just dont know if the have split pins or not, but someone claims that its the oem crank in them too, thats why i would like some more info about this engine and for someone to dig deep and find out or explain why and how
So the exhaust drives the turbo like a regular turbo with a turbine and compressor and then when the valve switches, it drives a second compressor that just generates electric for the front axle motor? Im slightly confused
The exhaust flow feeds both Turbo and GUH. Valves between decide how much.
@BSport320 ah right I see, thanks for clarifying, I'm guessing that explains why in SIM games that's why it regens hybrid energy slowly on throttle when other LMP1s don't
Great explanation!
Were there dual feeds into the turbine?
Yes, front and back
@@BSport320 Thank you
This engine in a BAC MONO type of car would be a riot
Your description of the firing order is confusing. I own a 2001 Honda VFR800 which is a 90 degree V-4 engine so I'm very familiar with it. How can cylinder 3 fire "180 degrees after cylinder 1" then cylinder 1 and cylinder 3 are on the same crankshaft bearing while being located in separate cylinder banks that are set at a 90 degree angle?
They are not on the same crank. Each piston has its own crank.
@@BSport320and I thought that we use V engines to have less cranks and bearings per piston. But I also don’t understand why Porsche boxer needs 7 main bearings instead of 4.
@@ArneChristianRosenfeldt Porsche puts a main bearing between each throw, for better crankshaft support. Since none of the throws are shared in a boxer or an even-firing V4, this makes sense.
@ in the VW type 1 the crank goes straight through to the other side. So much more length is available for bearing surface. More space means that the crankshaft can be hollowed out more, making it stiffer “globally”.
Extremely interesting !!👍🏻
The engine never proved to be unreliable in the long Le Mans races, with all those components to handle. Money well spent, all those hundreds of millions didn't get wasted
Porsche sort of threw all that discussion about engine friction out the window when they made a 5-main-bearing crankshaft for the V4. They already had high friction by having 4 cams with three bearings each. They could have made the same good things happen with an L4.
The bottoming-cycle turbogenerator is my favorite part of the car. But I didn't expect the electronic control valve to distribute exhaust gas to the turbo, turbogenerator, and wastegate. Since the exhaust from this engine was probably around 1000C, the level of engineering to get the control valve to operate reliably is impressive.
An inline-4 would also have 5 main bearings.
@@brianb-p6586 But fewer cam bearings due to half the number of cams.
@@andyharman3022 sure, which might make an almost measureable difference... or maybe not.
Firing Order of the Porsche 356? 1-4-3-2.
So it is a Classic Porsche Engine.;)
Awesome, thanks!
why they didn't put the GUH behind the turbo (like a turbo compound) ?
So exhaust gas is not slowed down before the GUH
Thank you for the video you're the best
Maybe the confusion I'm getting from your description of the engine's firing order is caused by the drawing of the crankshaft you're using. The crankshaft drawing in your video is of a flat-plane crankshaft (also known as the "180 degree" crankshaft). The firing order you're describing for the redesign (second attempt due to vibration issues) could not be accomplished with a flat-plane crankshaft.
I‘m using a 90deg crankshaft in both cases. A flat crankshaft wouldn’t create a smooth firing gap on a V4, which would create bigger problems in racing.
@@BSport320bikes don’t seem to care in racing
@@ArneChristianRosenfeldt re: "bikes don’t seem to care in racing". correct, Ducati famously uses a 270 degree split of the crankshaft between the 2 banks because what they're ultimately doing is running their V4 as two V2's side by side. both V2's have ideal primary and secondary balance all on their own which means you can select WHATEVER degree of split because the balance of the whole assembly doesn't change, the only thing that changes is the way power is delivered to the rear tire (ie, maximizing mechanical grip while maintaining tire life over race distance has always been their goal)...
also of note, due to the efficiency of the V4 layout (combined with Desmo) while they've not always been winning Championships, what they have always been doing is holding and resetting the Top Speed Records (~364kph). it's only in the past 2 years that other teams have matched or exceeded the speeds they were recording for the last 20 years. in this time none of their racers have ever complained about "wanting more power", sure they've wanted a half dozen OTHER things but never more power. if anything, they've had to DIAL BACK the power over the years to keep fuel consumption in check due to rules regarding maximum fuel capacity.
@@phillyphil1513 I think that a 90° V2 only has first order balance. A flat-2 has perfect balance when you look along the shaft, but some rocking motion due to the offset. You don't mean knife and fork arrangement? I could put a crankshaft from an inline-4 into a flat-2. Two conrods per piston similar to that 8 valve engine. Perfect balance.
The drawings do not show flat-plane cranks, but they are shown at a position which places two throws in the plane perpendicular to the page so you can't see which way they go. A perspective or isometric rendering would be much more clear.
Thanks I love this .
You're welcome 😊
The firing order of a 90 degree V-4 engine that has a flat plane crankshaft is as follows: cylinder 1 fires, then 180 degrees later cylinder 2 fires, then 270 degrees later cylinder 3 fires, then 180 degrees later cylinder 4 fires. After cylinder 4 fires there's 90 degrees of crankshaft rotation before the 720 degree 4 stroke cycle begins again with cylinder number 1.
It’s a cross plane crankshaft
Yes, if it has shared crankpins and 180 degrees between throws (so it is flat-plane). This V4 does not have shared crankpins, or a flat-plane crankshaft.
i heard they took a lot of inspiration from the norma M20 chassis.
I wonder car's V4 is too complicate that FIA banned it alongside diesel in current Hypercar reg? Seems in motorcycle it now ubiquitous configuration
2L V4, 500hp. Damn, that's close to GP bikes, but with turbo.
I wonder if the engine is a screamer or big bang
He spends a lot of the video talking about firing order.
V4 engine of Zaporozhets has 1-3-4-2 firing order and evenly firing every 180°. Here you can see how a balancing shaft was made to eliminate vibrations (balancing shaft was placed inside camshaft): th-cam.com/video/hy9V5sRq0zw/w-d-xo.htmlsi=qv9GYsEnuWA73are
Ugh, OHV
Thanks. When will Porsche release another stunning, poster worthy hyper car?
The 963 is already hanging on my wall
Excellent!
It needed 25 mechanics each and now sleeps with the electric motor removed. Sheer complexity. The 963 seems to be a walk in the park in comparison.
They wouldn't put a V6 in a 911.
TAG Turbos: Are we a joke to you?
A flat plane 360° crank and uneven firing interval would have made the crank lighter and stronger while spreading the load across the journals. The split journal thing to me is strange.
it does not have split journals - it has four completely separate throws.
I don't get why the firing order is 1-4-3-2 instead of 1-3-2-4. Could someone explain it to me please?
Because for 1324, 180deg after 3 fired, cylinder 1 is in top dead centre again, and 2 needs to be as well to fire. So 1 and 2 would habe the same crank direction as well as 3 and 4. So there would be a huge imbalance.
Great German Engineering
I want that engine in my Fiat 500.
If they leave the firing order 90° uneven like on the motorcycle, the vibration would be gone easily and it should sounded like a v8 crossplane.
Wow i would have gotten the firing order right first time😮
re: "Wow i would have gotten the firing order right first time". exactly, it's not like Porsche hasn't already built V8's off and on for the last 47 years (ref: the 928) and of course if/when you're building an engine for WEC, the target parameters of RELIABILITY and minimal FUEL CONSUMPTION have essentially been "pre-sets" for your team before you even turn on a single CAD Computer. least fuel consumption over 24 hours was what Audi and Peugot's use of Diesel was about back during the LMP-1 era.
Will it bolt into an old air cooled 911?
It indeed sounds like inline 4 with flatplane cranshaft
Very surpassing they didn’t go for the v6 given f1 at the time, and knowing the regulations for engines atleast would be stable for a very long time. Now given the fuel flow reduction for 2026 Porsche would have been in prime position with their knowledge on the bigger batteries and a limited fuel flow rate on a v6 if they had gone that way.
Porsche missed an opportunity to put a v4 turbo in the 718.
They really should have. That would have been the time to do it, and it would be a really really interesting thing to be offering in an entry level car. But that's not something they've been interested in doing since the 914. They've been banking on pumping the prestige of the 911 extremely hard.
This engine is somehow more interesting than F1 V6
A 13 min video from B sport? Woohoo
they should make more new v4 for cars.
Boxer engine high centre of gravity, didn’t imagine I would heard them in the same sentence.
Still waiting for a 918 sucessor
I wonder what the firing order of a one cylinder engine is?
I'll give you one guess...
Binary
Nobody gonna mention 1432 is vw flat4 firing order?
yes
I am not an engineer, cars are not my passion, but I love these videos for the density of information and having to think outside what I am used to. So .... ignorant questions.
I had never thought about a boxer using opposing pistons to balance out each other's vibration, or about the air in the crankcase expanding and compressing and creating resistance. My non-engineer's mind wonders ...
1. If the two cylinders were timed 180° apart, wouldn't that remove the air expansion/compression problem, since one pair's compressed air would naturally flow into the expanding pair.
2. What if each pair of pistons were not opposed but moved in the same direction, while the two pairs were 90° apart -- would each pair balance the other pair? I think there'd be a new torque component and that might be too much of its own vibration.
3. Or could the crankcase just be open to the outside air to reduce compression resistance?
Thanks and very good questions.
In a 4 cylinder boxer air from one pair flows to the other pair as you said, but this internal flow creates resistance. So in motorsport even the internal aerodynamics of crankcases are optimised to reduce resistance.
And you are right, if we change an engine from a boxer to a 180deg V (opposite pistons hang on the same crank), you just move air from left to right without compressing it. That’s why 180deg V12s were popular in racing. But even that still creates some resistance.
So the best thing is to evacuate the crankcase…
@@BSport320 Thanks very much. Strange to think that just shuffling the air back and forth creates measurable resistance, but they wouldn't optimise the internal aerodynamics just for fun.
And I hadn't thought of a boxer as a 180deg V. I'll have to research this. And again, thanks.
ETA: Got it! Because boxer pistons move in opposite directions for counterbalancing, they have to have separate crankshaft connections. But if a 180deg V moves the pistons in the same direction, they can share the crankshaft connection. Boy, reality sure doesn't make it easy for you guys.
i hope porsche lets audi use this design in F1 just as a V6
Watched the 919 Evo when they did the record lap at Nürburgring. Just crazy speed... Flyby:
th-cam.com/video/3FMEMQXwUUs/w-d-xo.html
Ford Taurus v4 1500?
??? Never heard of it 🧐
Taunus…
Ford Germany built the *Taunus* V4 in Cologne. It was used in several models (including Saabs) and led to the Cologne V6.
lancia fulvia had V4 engine 50 years ago
There have been many V4 engines, but relatively few in cars. The only common V4 car engines that I can think of are the Ford Essex, Ford Taunus, and V4 - none of which were 90 degree engines - plus the Zaporozhets.
A shock Rod.
This hypercar has V4 and is hyped because it's Porsche, but you hate on C63s E Performance...
Porsche honestly just trying anything and making it stick haha
I always thought this engine had a crossed crankshaft, in the 1-4-3-2 sequence.
I would die cheating.
Or a 3-2-1-4
it has a "crossed" crankshaft, with every throw in a different direction.
If I’m correct VW owns Porsche, Audi, Lamborghini, Bugatti and Ducati
A: "YOU ARE CORRECT SIR...!!!" (best Ed McMahon voice)