Love what the dev said about car collecting at the end. He basically addressed what ruined Forza Horizon 5 for so many people. Instead of getting super cars thrown in your face every 5 minutes, hopefully we get to really appreciate a relationship with a smaller collection, and make every new addition that much more meaningful. Really hoping it plays out like that in the campaign.
That’s how i felt with the older PS1/2 Gran Turismo games. Earning high end cars felt like an achievement but you also got to spend time tuning and using low end cars i.e. the cars we actually drive. FH5 my third car was a new Lamborghini which is cool but now i earned so many cars and don’t use over half of them
@@sean7332 As a counter, Forza Horizon was always meant to be a car playground. For someone like me thats why I've always preferred Horizon style game to Motorsport. Let me race whatever style car I want and adjust AI cars based on my class of car.
@@LRon-ef7ni Exactly!!! The whole reason older GTs were so damn addictive was the journey you went on with your crappy cars and slowly made your way up to better ones. Take that away, and you’ve seen almost everything the game has to offer in a few hrs. It’s what happened to FH and I don’t get why they chose to do it, basically making most of their cars pointless to the average player. A waste of their own work.
@@dougbfresh I don’t think the issue is classes of cars, but the fact you get like 10 of them from each class so damn fast, that earning a new one makes you feel nothing at all. There’s basically no progression of any kind.
That alone convinced myself of trying out on October via Gamepass. You can see his expressions while talking about his own personal car, and I expect to be the same for us to. To have that project JDM, or go in search of the exclusive Super Car, and not receive super cars all the time each 5 minutes (Cogh cogh Forza Horizon 5)
This is what making games (art) is all about. Passion. I know all devs have passion, but they don't get to express it a lot when the top execs don't have it. These guys do.
This was phenomenal and one of the best dev interviews I've seen. It's obvious how much insane work they've put into this new entry. Thank you Turn10/DF.
They havnt done much the game looks and sounds garbage, less cars less tracks more grinding using forza 4 car models so not all new tech absolute rubbish
What an absolutely incredible video. I love how candid they are about the game and the compromises and trade offs and priorities. Just unparalleled content on TH-cam.
What an exellent video! I love this, it's so informative. The production quality is also top notch. It's great that the devs can talk about their work here and get deep into the details and explain why they do certain stuff. I hope we get alot more of these interviews with other devs too. I'm here for it, for sure!
Damn, what an amazing video. The detailed analysis, the honesty from the development team, and the details that you guys go into are truely first class. The lighting in this new Forza really is a huge leap over the last game. Plus, RT in the game at 60fps is truly a new leap for console gaming. They really have managed a miracle in hitting that target. DF/John, this is another masterpiece of a video. Awesome all round. Loved every second.
not gonna lie, they listened to the fans being worried about how it would go and made a tech preview with you guys. This is just amazing. Thank you for doing this and asking all the right questions.
@@tonybarnes2920nah they just didn't listen to the fans, it's an always online game ffs, they went worse than fm7, atleast you can still play it if you bought it before the delisting lol
So glad I came across this video. This type of coverage gives me such a deeper appreciation for what people do to bring us these stunning game experiences. Thanks Digital Foundry and Turn 10!
Incredible preview. The developers are great and you can tell they have put a lot of effort into the game and are comfortable talking to Digital Foundry.
@@th3orist Exactly, there is nothing about the game which is new to market apart from gimmicky gamemodes aimed at people who don't know cars, it's a casual xbox racing game, which is fine but i wish they wouldn't claim it to be the best sim or 48X the detail... like really? they are taking pages from the todd Howard playbook XD
I think it's great that they didn't just concentrate on car detail like some other games and actually brought the detail up in the environments as well. The cars don't look out of place. The tree detail is something I complain about in almost every racing game. Paper cutout trees.. But here, they look great. I also love the inclusion of atmospheric effects.
I understand what you mean about adding visual magic to environments....but it does seem odd that this new Forza doesn't have better looking car models than a cross gen Gran Turismo. I need to see this game in person to judge though.
This was a really informative and entertaining interview. I'd love to keep watching these kinds of interview here the devs discuss the technical details as long as their motivations.
I'm not big into sim Racing but I've always enjoyed how open and direct Turn10 has been around their technology. Great video as someone who loves this level of detail.
Thanks DF for this documentary. Seeing true custom devtools such as that performance investigator is amazing! Kudos to the Forza team for this amazing piece of art. Cant wait for the release and whats next!
40 minutes of Nerdy Grahics Engine technology by the people actually working on it and not some Marketing dudes. We can watch this for free thanks to DF being acknowledged by these massives studios. Kudos guys
Love that the trees are 3D now! Also, I gotta imagine there's a way to procedurally generate crowds to have more variation, even something as simple as varying the color of their clothing or skin, just so we wouldn't see so many repeats sitting right next to each other. I realize this is a bottom of the barrel priority that will rarely get seen but players, but it's just something that's so jarring when I see it.
Definitely, no serious racing game player wants to play at 30 fps it's awful. 60 fps with Ray Tracing with other compromises such as lower resolution is the way to go, that is how I play other games like Ratchet and Clank Rift Apart on PS5.
Absolutely looking forward to John's tech review when the game drops. The GT7 review and the DF Retro videos of GT are my favorite DF videos. Extremely well made!
This is the game I’ve been waiting for this year. I can’t wait to get my hands on it. One of my personal criticisms about FM7 was that I thought the environments felt too “sterile.” They didn’t have a lot of detail outside of the race-able area and so I was always reminded that it was only a video game. All of these graphical improvements appear to finally give the sense of driving around a real track with a real audience. And the icing on the cake was the talk at the end about the “built not bought” car progression. FANTASTIC work DF!!
Looks great. Also impressive how well FM7 holds up. I like the change in ethos about car collecting too. I only ever want to drive a small handful of cars in these games, usually stuff I have owned or could imagine owning IRL.
Glad to have dynamic time of day and weather. I wonder if they include wind and how that affects the car. IRL you’ll feel strong winds push the car. Also it would be cool if the roads get full of wet leaves that affects the handling and such but I doubt they will have such details.
Ah yes the data driven performance testing is great to see as a (non gaming) QA engineer! You need that automation and data to know what the problem is and when you’ve regressed.
I honestly hate this modern graphical trend of "everything is a mirror (and wet)". Have these people never seen a race before? Or a car in general? Cars don't reflect perfect images off one another when driving next to each other. The roofs of cars aren't a mirrored shots of the clouds when you see them from above. Just because it's expensive to render doesn't mean it looks good or realistic.
This is a great video. I wish more developers would do interviews like this. I'm not an xbox person but the Forza games definitely interest me. Thankfully I have a decent PC :)
Turn10 and Playground are two of the best game developers in the industry when it comes to creating visually stunning games that run smoothly on a machine. Their games are always highly optimized. Even though FH5 is a last-gen game, it is still one of the most optimized games out there, despite having a memory leak issue. It can push a GPU's performance to its limits, which is something that many other games cannot achieve over time.
From my time spent in iRacing I would agree that I focus on one car at a time since you really have to learn it and I bet most people are doing this so smart decision by devs here to notice that and apply it to latest version of FM.
Thanks for this. I'm not into these games too much but it's always super interesting to learn more about development. I get the impression that this game will have good performance and cool tech.
the return of 3D crowds is nice. I remember going from forza 4 to 5 and one of the first things I noticed was that the crowds had all gone from 3D people to paper cutouts with the occasional 3D person waving a flag.
Yea both 360 and PS4 suffered from that jaguar CPU debacle. It has been said that the Cell on PS3 was faster. Thankfully newer Ryzens are a turn-around for AMD@@miguelroman4294
It's awesome Digital Foundry has such a close relationship with Microsoft, gaining access to Xbox Studios and special previews of their games and hardware
I know this is a DF video so of course the focus is on the technical aspects but I hope they spent some serious time making the career compelling- something a Forza Motorsports game hasn't been since FM4.
So the game is now out and it looks like its covered in a layer of dust and our avatar needs bifocal glasses to see.. What happened? I went back to Forza Motorsport 7 and its absolutely gorgeous in comparison. Runs better, has better contrast, the environments are highly detailed and interesting, and theres more of them. The only thing that I like from the new game is the 360 degree wheel animations which feel more connected to the road. I drive from the dash in FM7 and it's almost a good enough substitute.
Forza has reached the uncanny valley version of cars for me. There are times that it looks like real cars racing and then others when it just looks like a video game, colors too vibrant and sharp. I think in 10 years we finally reach actual photo realism for racing games.
Yes something weird going on with the lighting of cars here…..everything too shiny and reflecty, race cars just don’t look like that, real life doesn’t look like that. I was quite disappointed in the visuals shown tbh
No doubt there's some impressive stuff they've done but I'm glad I'm not the only one that feels it still looks a bit off. Something GT7 has absolutely nailed is the way they handle paint simulation, the way paint reacts to lighting, and the materials in car interiors can look pretty photoreal at times. Forza still misses the mark with these three.
@@resetreflectt This Forza is actually more reminiscent of the original and 360 Forza games. They always had a more gamey bold look to them that made the franchise stand out from Gran Turismo. A bit of that was lost last gen in my opinion.
I'm usually a Horizon guy, but I'd love to see how this looks and runs on my computer! It sounds like they're doing the right thing with raytracing and only using it for its strengths.
Technically it's very impressive but I have a few gripes. Mainly how washed out and flat it looks. The move to realtime GI is going to have it's disadvantages, but colors always look very muted and shadows are far too bright. It's missing a lot of depth. The base layer of car paint also looks quite flat, with diffuse GI being basic and metallic paint still using cubemaps with light leakage. The RT reflections on the clearcoat layer also don't reflect the shadow under the car, causing a overly bright fresnel at the bottom of the car. Then there's the TAA ghosting. I'm desperately hoping MSAA is still an option on PC because TAA simply doesn't work well with racing games. I understand DF is all about softer images with no aliasing at all, but not everyone shares that preference. This is a nitpicky comment but I am genuinely impressed by the game so far
Just use dlss quality the aa is better than any traditional method.Agree with the reflection and washed out picture looks weird hope its just the console version.
@@itsmorbtime2536Forza horizon 5 has DLAA support and if you can't stand shimmering at all, it's the way to go. But I still use MSAA, it's clarity is objectively the best in motion, that's not up for debate. The performance and shimmering foliage makes temporal solutions valid options, but the key word is OPTIONS.
@@nihilityjoey I'm not basing it off the video being blurry. I'm basing it off how TAA looks in horizon 5 and every other racing game ever. The tech at its very foundation has issues with clarity in motion. It's just how it works. Ive also watched a lot of the trailers and there are ghosting and trailing artifacts behind the cars at times. That's visible with or without compression because it's not a clarity issue but an actual trail.
Kinda sucks that MSAA is removed. Even on the YT footage, FM7 footage looks sharper than the new game. The new game does manage to have less aliasing and less shimmering at places but it just looks blurry. I hope the pc version has optional msaa.
Exactly, I hate when I can’t disable it because developers don’t allow it, I hope that won’t be the case here. Else I have to use heavy super resolution to try to mitigate the blurry mess that will tank the performance and still come out less sharp than native image without TAA
Have always been a forza guy and after I got my ps5 I thought gt7 was underwhelming. That all changed with gt7/VR, I really can’t see how forza is going to pull me back without VR.
Wow. Great video. Without a doubt it's the best looking som racer ive ever seen. Really surprised to find out the Series X is doing RT car reflections and RT Ambient Occlusion in 60fps mode. No wonder the lighting and ambience look so good. The trackside detail as well is literally incredible.
@@JesusSaves4Ever777Lol buddy, you could just as easily google it. But I'll bite. Ambient occlusion is the shadowing around an object that helps it look like it belongs in a particular scene. In the case of Forza it is the shadow under the cars that helps ground them to the track and their surroundings. In other games it is shadows under and around objects that help them blend into a scene more realistically, instead of just looking like they are floating in empty space.
20 race tracks, upgrade system that removes all player choice, capped frame rate in multiplayer, and cars being brought over from Xbox 360 era were spotted in content creator previews. I love the Forza Motorsport series, I have been playing it since day 1 on original Xbox, but there are some obvious red flags with this title that I am surprised exist at all. :(
Fantastic video, great content as with lots of the DFs videos 👏 watched all and didn't stop. Alll 37mims of interesting details about the game and nice presentation too.
This. The game can look stunningly gorgeous but if I hop in my cockpit with my direct drive wheel and loadcell pedals and the game drives like crap, I’m going right back to gran turismo
oh so you've played it? If you tweak settings in the game it will probably play and feel similar to gt7 I reckon. main things are turn up road feel, turn down or off wheel damper and use sim steering, other stuff to change too. if you like drifting turn up mechanical trail thing.@@Frankenslide
Loved that guy talking about AA techniques suggesting anything but MSAA previously was (and in so many games still is) a complete blurry mess, especially in motion. He was careful with his words but it's so obvious what he ment. I could count the games with an ok TAA using fingers on my right hand. I don't know what I would do without DLDSR. This feature only is a good enough reason for me to stay team green. I literally couldn't be playing so many great games because I refuse destroying my eyes staring at a blurred picture. I'm looking at you RDR2, DBD, all new resident evils, war thunder, dying light 2 and pretty much anything I played in the last couple of years. Hats off to developers who know how to set it up right. I'm so glad some developers actually care about rendering a clear and crisp image.
I'm glad they finally moved on to volumetric clouds, i hope the Forza Horizon games will do the same. Most other engines/games have moved on to volumetric for a good reason. They don't take up nearly as much space, they are 100% customizable/adaptive, can interact with light and weather systems and they don't need a team of people taking hundreds of hours of capture.
Right on the 💰 and all the right questions asked👍🏻 Big 👏 to DF. This should be the new standard for all AAA games. Interviews like this one calms the mind👍🏻. Again insane production value and hat's of to DF👍🏻
Fantastic interview! Love these guys. 2 minutes in i got live service vibes though and 15:15 confirmed it. It sounds like you buy car parts to upgrade your car? Little worried
120fps mode should’ve been included on Xbox Series X as capping it to 60fps is ridiculous when the system can easily run 120fps without the on track ray tracing……… I don’t care about ray tracing on track and would much rather have 120fps as the driving is so much more immersive, and the super low input lag is worth lower visual fidelity and having 3 modes without 120fps is not a good decision Gran Turismo has a nice 120fps mode on PlayStation 5 and Forza shouldn’t be lacking that mode as a flagship Xbox Series X Racing Game
If their mission was to make a clean, noise and artifact "free" image, they succeeded. But, I am disappointed that the focus wasn't on more photorealism. For example, it appears that in none of the footage, that headlights actually cast shadows from other cars or physical objects. The headlights also don't light up the underside of the cars on the rear, as that "shadow field" seems to be there all the time, regardless of changing lighting. Forza Horizon 4 actually had this shadow casting on quality setting, and on PC it had it affecting other objects too (like roadside fences). This is where I hate 4K and I hate Raytracing. They are so prioritized over physics and other much more impactful graphical features. This is why I'm glad Starfield went the way it did. The physics simulation and light simulation in that game is absolutely beautiful, without any gimmicks.
I agree about RT, not 4k thought. Soft images is the worst imo. Mjch rather see other things sacrifised than image sharpness. Nothing has a greater impact on image quality than a blury image. Also, funny you mentioned Starfield's lights, cause within the first 2 min of gameplay the one thing that bothered me was that npc's light didn't cast a shadow from the player - only ither npcs. Really bothered me for some reason :p
Thank you. I hope the actual tech breakdown of the game doesn't ignore the cars missing shadows and GI issues. It's hard to hear what they're saying and take it seriously over this weird looking footage. The game has looked this way all year. 2022's demo looked amazing.
As a person who has spent a ton of time around performance Subarus, the paint texture @27:39 on the bumper of the S209 kind of blew my mind. Very accurate.
This is how all deep dive/Behind the scene videos should be awesome video! I was very unenthused by Turn 10s version of behind the scenes when all they said was built from the ground up! This video proves things are built from the ground up! The other video was easy to make a mockery of!
Am I the only one not that impressed with the graphics? I'm sure there's many more polygons and raytracing, but overall it's still very plastic cars running on very sterile tracks. There's no sense of speed (which I still give the medal to Need for Speed Shift 2). Look at the headlights of the cars as they drive around at night or during dusk: it looks like we're back to Xbox 360 years. Stop trying to pump pure resolution when it would be far more beneficial to make racing more lifelike. Put more variation in on the track texture! Why is every track freshly paved? Needs more dust and debris! Racing cars gets dirty, even when not going offroad.
Love what the dev said about car collecting at the end. He basically addressed what ruined Forza Horizon 5 for so many people. Instead of getting super cars thrown in your face every 5 minutes, hopefully we get to really appreciate a relationship with a smaller collection, and make every new addition that much more meaningful. Really hoping it plays out like that in the campaign.
That's why I got bored of horizon the constant 'rewards' for completing a basic race and you get the fastest cars in an hour.. what the.hell
That’s how i felt with the older PS1/2 Gran Turismo games. Earning high end cars felt like an achievement but you also got to spend time tuning and using low end cars i.e. the cars we actually drive. FH5 my third car was a new Lamborghini which is cool but now i earned so many cars and don’t use over half of them
@@sean7332 As a counter, Forza Horizon was always meant to be a car playground. For someone like me thats why I've always preferred Horizon style game to Motorsport. Let me race whatever style car I want and adjust AI cars based on my class of car.
@@LRon-ef7ni Exactly!!! The whole reason older GTs were so damn addictive was the journey you went on with your crappy cars and slowly made your way up to better ones. Take that away, and you’ve seen almost everything the game has to offer in a few hrs. It’s what happened to FH and I don’t get why they chose to do it, basically making most of their cars pointless to the average player. A waste of their own work.
@@dougbfresh I don’t think the issue is classes of cars, but the fact you get like 10 of them from each class so damn fast, that earning a new one makes you feel nothing at all. There’s basically no progression of any kind.
The developer at the end just did more for the game than an entire marketing team ever could.
That alone convinced myself of trying out on October via Gamepass. You can see his expressions while talking about his own personal car, and I expect to be the same for us to. To have that project JDM, or go in search of the exclusive Super Car, and not receive super cars all the time each 5 minutes (Cogh cogh Forza Horizon 5)
Is that a middle aged man with purple hair 😂😂😂 good lord help us
Marketing teams do not try to sell people who engage with video games, they are trying to sell it to the rest.
@@DrGreenThumbNZL TIL when you reach a certain age as a man you can no longer dye your hair a colour you want. What's wrong with purple?
FACTS!
This is what making games (art) is all about. Passion. I know all devs have passion, but they don't get to express it a lot when the top execs don't have it. These guys do.
This was phenomenal and one of the best dev interviews I've seen. It's obvious how much insane work they've put into this new entry. Thank you Turn10/DF.
They havnt done much the game looks and sounds garbage, less cars less tracks more grinding using forza 4 car models so not all new tech absolute rubbish
Sad tbh they gas light me
This aged well
honestly, the debug view looks really pretty in its own way. It'd be nice to be able to play the game that way.
Right? We would love that as an option.
I was thinking the same thing! I would honestly not mind playing the entire game like that.
Quickest way to turn Forza into Wipeout Zone mode
What minute is this shown?
@@SToad@12:01
Great feature, the team's obviously put a ton of effort into progressing the tech and the series. Appreciate the feature DF!
What an absolutely incredible video. I love how candid they are about the game and the compromises and trade offs and priorities. Just unparalleled content on TH-cam.
Facts so dope
Yeah the whole not able to use old track models due to new fidelity was really interesting
Lol. You don't understand the fact that this is a paid advertisement?
@@gamesandplanes3984they would usually say video that it’s sponsored, for that reason it most likely isn’t
Community requests or expectations were never a priority. 3d trees were.
What an exellent video! I love this, it's so informative. The production quality is also top notch. It's great that the devs can talk about their work here and get deep into the details and explain why they do certain stuff. I hope we get alot more of these interviews with other devs too. I'm here for it, for sure!
so much nonsense bla bla. hate such videos with developers bla bla
@@mal-avcisi9783 cut and paste angry bot, huh?
@@mal-avcisi9783Based on your profile, you really hate DF. Why are you here?
It is really great to see such a detailed look behind the scenes. Great work DF and Turn 10!
Incredible! Bravo to Turn 10 and to Digital Foundry! Thank you!
Damn, what an amazing video. The detailed analysis, the honesty from the development team, and the details that you guys go into are truely first class.
The lighting in this new Forza really is a huge leap over the last game.
Plus, RT in the game at 60fps is truly a new leap for console gaming. They really have managed a miracle in hitting that target.
DF/John, this is another masterpiece of a video. Awesome all round. Loved every second.
not gonna lie, they listened to the fans being worried about how it would go and made a tech preview with you guys.
This is just amazing. Thank you for doing this and asking all the right questions.
so much nonsense bla bla. hate such videos with developers bla bla
@@mal-avcisi9783 cut and paste angry bot, huh?
@@tonybarnes2920nah they just didn't listen to the fans, it's an always online game ffs, they went worse than fm7, atleast you can still play it if you bought it before the delisting lol
@@mal-avcisi9783no one asked
So glad I came across this video. This type of coverage gives me such a deeper appreciation for what people do to bring us these stunning game experiences. Thanks Digital Foundry and Turn 10!
This isn't coverage. It's a paid promo. Lol. How don't people understand this?
@@gamesandplanes3984 the terms aren’t mutually exclusive, but likely hard to tell from your high horse.
Incredible preview. The developers are great and you can tell they have put a lot of effort into the game and are comfortable talking to Digital Foundry.
To me its just marketing tour 101 tbh. Its all textbook stuff they say.
@@th3orist Exactly, there is nothing about the game which is new to market apart from gimmicky gamemodes aimed at people who don't know cars, it's a casual xbox racing game, which is fine but i wish they wouldn't claim it to be the best sim or 48X the detail... like really? they are taking pages from the todd Howard playbook XD
@@Barcodez5555no one ever claimed that forza is a sim. It was always a simcade since 2005.
@@PIOVRAME They are marketing it like it's the rebirth of sims lol
@@Barcodez5555name me one game in the last 5 years with a completely unique feature that's never been used before.
I think it's great that they didn't just concentrate on car detail like some other games and actually brought the detail up in the environments as well. The cars don't look out of place. The tree detail is something I complain about in almost every racing game. Paper cutout trees.. But here, they look great. I also love the inclusion of atmospheric effects.
Gt7 has better car models, yes
I understand what you mean about adding visual magic to environments....but it does seem odd that this new Forza doesn't have better looking car models than a cross gen Gran Turismo. I need to see this game in person to judge though.
This was a really informative and entertaining interview. I'd love to keep watching these kinds of interview here the devs discuss the technical details as long as their motivations.
Incredible job on this one Digital Foundry! I enjoyed watching this immensely, thank you.
I'm not big into sim Racing but I've always enjoyed how open and direct Turn10 has been around their technology. Great video as someone who loves this level of detail.
Good thing this isn't Sim racing. Obviously its not NFS but it aint Full blown sim either.
@@shakengandulf Eh you know what I mean. Motorsport and Gran Turismo for all intents and purposes are console sim racers.
@@dougbfresh No problem.
@@shakengandulfYou know what he means smart ass. It's a sim, period. A sim game doesn't have every damn physics law to be a sim.
@@alexv5581We would need quantum computer gaming consoles to achieve that on a hardware level.
Love these tech breakdown vids!
Been a forza Motorsport fan since the first game on the original Xbox this looks absolutely amazing and I can’t wait to jump into it.
Same i hope one day they add New york Long and pacific shipyards🥺🫶
Thanks DF for this documentary. Seeing true custom devtools such as that performance investigator is amazing! Kudos to the Forza team for this amazing piece of art. Cant wait for the release and whats next!
As an avid sim Racer this was one fascinating clip John. Kudos bro great work! 👍
40 minutes of Nerdy Grahics Engine technology by the people actually working on it and not some Marketing dudes. We can watch this for free thanks to DF being acknowledged by these massives studios. Kudos guys
Love that the trees are 3D now! Also, I gotta imagine there's a way to procedurally generate crowds to have more variation, even something as simple as varying the color of their clothing or skin, just so we wouldn't see so many repeats sitting right next to each other. I realize this is a bottom of the barrel priority that will rarely get seen but players, but it's just something that's so jarring when I see it.
Legends. Thank you for covering this and racing games and I can’t wait to get on track.
Finally! A Dev that knows how to code for the full suite of the Series X.
Thanks for the deep dive into it....just makes me more hyped for playing it. Looks like it will be Performance RT mode for me!
Definitely, no serious racing game player wants to play at 30 fps it's awful. 60 fps with Ray Tracing with other compromises such as lower resolution is the way to go, that is how I play other games like Ratchet and Clank Rift Apart on PS5.
love the driveclub music in the background
Absolutely looking forward to John's tech review when the game drops. The GT7 review and the DF Retro videos of GT are my favorite DF videos. Extremely well made!
Great video! Turn10 is such an awesome development team
the data collection about performance for each part of the track is pretty great
Racing games have come so far, i remember playing Pitstop 2 on my Commodore 64 in the 1980's.
Games in general have come a long way, but yes
I remember playing Wec Le Mans on MSX. I used to dream about games looking this good.
@@ozzyg82 I remember having that on the Spectrum+2 👍
My first racing game was Rad Racer for NES , and yes it’s amazing how far its come
First game i ever played 😭 commodore 64 was so amazing
This is the game I’ve been waiting for this year. I can’t wait to get my hands on it. One of my personal criticisms about FM7 was that I thought the environments felt too “sterile.” They didn’t have a lot of detail outside of the race-able area and so I was always reminded that it was only a video game. All of these graphical improvements appear to finally give the sense of driving around a real track with a real audience.
And the icing on the cake was the talk at the end about the “built not bought” car progression.
FANTASTIC work DF!!
Excellent work as always John!
how?? all he did was play clips of other people talking.
them talking to DF means they care
Looks great. Also impressive how well FM7 holds up.
I like the change in ethos about car collecting too. I only ever want to drive a small handful of cars in these games, usually stuff I have owned or could imagine owning IRL.
Glad to have dynamic time of day and weather. I wonder if they include wind and how that affects the car. IRL you’ll feel strong winds push the car. Also it would be cool if the roads get full of wet leaves that affects the handling and such but I doubt they will have such details.
The color of the car next to you reflecting off your paint. Perfect
Ah yes the data driven performance testing is great to see as a (non gaming) QA engineer! You need that automation and data to know what the problem is and when you’ve regressed.
I appreciate the subtle Driveclub music playing in the background :)
I honestly hate this modern graphical trend of "everything is a mirror (and wet)". Have these people never seen a race before? Or a car in general? Cars don't reflect perfect images off one another when driving next to each other. The roofs of cars aren't a mirrored shots of the clouds when you see them from above. Just because it's expensive to render doesn't mean it looks good or realistic.
This is a great video. I wish more developers would do interviews like this. I'm not an xbox person but the Forza games definitely interest me. Thankfully I have a decent PC :)
Honestly can’t wait for this game - the last was really cool and immersive.
Driveclub music on the background is a nice hidden poke))
Still the king of car game visuals.
Some of the shots are looking borderline photorealistic
Turn10 and Playground are two of the best game developers in the industry when it comes to creating visually stunning games that run smoothly on a machine. Their games are always highly optimized. Even though FH5 is a last-gen game, it is still one of the most optimized games out there, despite having a memory leak issue. It can push a GPU's performance to its limits, which is something that many other games cannot achieve over time.
All they are missing now is having the spectators react to the action on track and the weather like Project Gotham Racing 3 and 4.
From my time spent in iRacing I would agree that I focus on one car at a time since you really have to learn it and I bet most people are doing this so smart decision by devs here to notice that and apply it to latest version of FM.
Huge respect to the developers and whole team and the passion for this game. It looks phenomenal for a console game. Can't wait to try it on PC
Thanks for this. I'm not into these games too much but it's always super interesting to learn more about development. I get the impression that this game will have good performance and cool tech.
the return of 3D crowds is nice. I remember going from forza 4 to 5 and one of the first things I noticed was that the crowds had all gone from 3D people to paper cutouts with the occasional 3D person waving a flag.
Xb 360 CPU was very fast for 720p gaming, the slow jag CPU in the xbone was a bad call from MS and the main reason most games ran poor.
@@miguelroman4294the DDR3 ram didn’t help either
@@MinnevanThat was probably its biggest weakness.
Crowds pretty useless, 3D or not, it does not affect me or make any difference to the game, cuz i don't pay attention to them
Yea both 360 and PS4 suffered from that jaguar CPU debacle. It has been said that the Cell on PS3 was faster. Thankfully newer Ryzens are a turn-around for AMD@@miguelroman4294
It's awesome Digital Foundry has such a close relationship with Microsoft, gaining access to Xbox Studios and special previews of their games and hardware
@@Michael-jj8gz
🧂🧂🧂🧂🧂😂
@@Michael-jj8gznot to mention that is a lie and you’re just a salty fanboy
In fairness, it’s DF’s job and a PR hit for MS…. Friendship has nothing to do with it, it’s just business.
For some, DF is either biased towards Sony or towards MS apparently.
It's not even about a close relationship, the dev team wanted to talk about the game and what they've done to it and microsoft went ok
Microsoft is always open about Forza tech. I remember a similar video about FH5. Great stuff.
I know this is a DF video so of course the focus is on the technical aspects but I hope they spent some serious time making the career compelling- something a Forza Motorsports game hasn't been since FM4.
So the game is now out and it looks like its covered in a layer of dust and our avatar needs bifocal glasses to see.. What happened? I went back to Forza Motorsport 7 and its absolutely gorgeous in comparison. Runs better, has better contrast, the environments are highly detailed and interesting, and theres more of them. The only thing that I like from the new game is the 360 degree wheel animations which feel more connected to the road. I drive from the dash in FM7 and it's almost a good enough substitute.
Looking forward to it. Whenever i play a new Forza game i like to load up my Lo-Fi Playlist and just cruise. Its so relaxing.
Forza has reached the uncanny valley version of cars for me. There are times that it looks like real cars racing and then others when it just looks like a video game, colors too vibrant and sharp. I think in 10 years we finally reach actual photo realism for racing games.
Yes something weird going on with the lighting of cars here…..everything too shiny and reflecty, race cars just don’t look like that, real life doesn’t look like that. I was quite disappointed in the visuals shown tbh
No doubt there's some impressive stuff they've done but I'm glad I'm not the only one that feels it still looks a bit off. Something GT7 has absolutely nailed is the way they handle paint simulation, the way paint reacts to lighting, and the materials in car interiors can look pretty photoreal at times. Forza still misses the mark with these three.
@@resetreflectt This Forza is actually more reminiscent of the original and 360 Forza games. They always had a more gamey bold look to them that made the franchise stand out from Gran Turismo. A bit of that was lost last gen in my opinion.
Thank you for this video. I just love those kinda videos, where you can listen to what the developers of a game can talk about their newest iteration.
I'm usually a Horizon guy, but I'd love to see how this looks and runs on my computer! It sounds like they're doing the right thing with raytracing and only using it for its strengths.
Glad they implemented three different display modes. Performance RT definitely seems like the way to go.
23:27 WOW la iluminacion y el detalle de los circuitos es increible!
4:31 The Driveclub theme took me soooo back 😭Lovely coverage!
Technically it's very impressive but I have a few gripes. Mainly how washed out and flat it looks. The move to realtime GI is going to have it's disadvantages, but colors always look very muted and shadows are far too bright. It's missing a lot of depth.
The base layer of car paint also looks quite flat, with diffuse GI being basic and metallic paint still using cubemaps with light leakage. The RT reflections on the clearcoat layer also don't reflect the shadow under the car, causing a overly bright fresnel at the bottom of the car.
Then there's the TAA ghosting. I'm desperately hoping MSAA is still an option on PC because TAA simply doesn't work well with racing games. I understand DF is all about softer images with no aliasing at all, but not everyone shares that preference.
This is a nitpicky comment but I am genuinely impressed by the game so far
Just use dlss quality the aa is better than any traditional method.Agree with the reflection and washed out picture looks weird hope its just the console version.
Is everyone on here mental? It's a compressed video, at 1080p.
@@itsmorbtime2536Forza horizon 5 has DLAA support and if you can't stand shimmering at all, it's the way to go. But I still use MSAA, it's clarity is objectively the best in motion, that's not up for debate.
The performance and shimmering foliage makes temporal solutions valid options, but the key word is OPTIONS.
It will most likely look amazing on OLED with HDR peaking at 4000 nits and inky blacks.
@@nihilityjoey I'm not basing it off the video being blurry. I'm basing it off how TAA looks in horizon 5 and every other racing game ever. The tech at its very foundation has issues with clarity in motion. It's just how it works.
Ive also watched a lot of the trailers and there are ghosting and trailing artifacts behind the cars at times. That's visible with or without compression because it's not a clarity issue but an actual trail.
Phenomenal stuff. I'm convinced, I'll be back on Forza since I quit after 3.
Kinda sucks that MSAA is removed. Even on the YT footage, FM7 footage looks sharper than the new game. The new game does manage to have less aliasing and less shimmering at places but it just looks blurry. I hope the pc version has optional msaa.
That's cause TAA sucks.
Exactly, I hate when I can’t disable it because developers don’t allow it, I hope that won’t be the case here. Else I have to use heavy super resolution to try to mitigate the blurry mess that will tank the performance and still come out less sharp than native image without TAA
Have always been a forza guy and after I got my ps5 I thought gt7 was underwhelming. That all changed with gt7/VR, I really can’t see how forza is going to pull me back without VR.
This is what Grand Turismo needs... a developer that cares about making something fresh and next gen.
GT7 looks much better than anything Ive seen from Forza footage so far.
@@bigweedonly you're crazy, I'm a huge gt fan and 7 was a rehash.
Thanks DF/T10 for the video, the game is looking 🔥
Wow. Great video.
Without a doubt it's the best looking som racer ive ever seen. Really surprised to find out the Series X is doing RT car reflections and RT Ambient Occlusion in 60fps mode.
No wonder the lighting and ambience look so good.
The trackside detail as well is literally incredible.
What is ambient occlusion?? Can you explain please
@@JesusSaves4Ever777Lol buddy, you could just as easily google it. But I'll bite. Ambient occlusion is the shadowing around an object that helps it look like it belongs in a particular scene. In the case of Forza it is the shadow under the cars that helps ground them to the track and their surroundings. In other games it is shadows under and around objects that help them blend into a scene more realistically, instead of just looking like they are floating in empty space.
@@JesusSaves4Ever777pretty much grounds objects in reality by shading them realistically, so they don't look like floating props
I hear that Driveclub OST, DF. Don't play with my heart.
20 race tracks, upgrade system that removes all player choice, capped frame rate in multiplayer, and cars being brought over from Xbox 360 era were spotted in content creator previews. I love the Forza Motorsport series, I have been playing it since day 1 on original Xbox, but there are some obvious red flags with this title that I am surprised exist at all. :(
Poor guy 😂
I agree this is not good they need to,do,somethimg about the poor models soon
This type of video is unique to your channel and I love it
More excited for this than I was for Starfield
Fantastic video, great content as with lots of the DFs videos 👏 watched all and didn't stop. Alll 37mims of interesting details about the game and nice presentation too.
Looks amazing. Can't wait to get on the track.
This was a very interesting watch. Thank you Gents!
Hopefully the game is more than just a graphical showcase. The physics and wheel support need to be good as well.
This. The game can look stunningly gorgeous but if I hop in my cockpit with my direct drive wheel and loadcell pedals and the game drives like crap, I’m going right back to gran turismo
@@Frankenslide Yeah, driving is after all the most important thing in a driving game.
oh so you've played it?
If you tweak settings in the game it will probably play and feel similar to gt7 I reckon. main things are turn up road feel, turn down or off wheel damper and use sim steering, other stuff to change too. if you like drifting turn up mechanical trail thing.@@Frankenslide
@@FrankenslideBecause that's definitely how the majority of players will be playing.
I like how they're using driveclub ost for their racing games related videos.
Game looks insane, can't wait.
Loved that guy talking about AA techniques suggesting anything but MSAA previously was (and in so many games still is) a complete blurry mess, especially in motion. He was careful with his words but it's so obvious what he ment. I could count the games with an ok TAA using fingers on my right hand. I don't know what I would do without DLDSR. This feature only is a good enough reason for me to stay team green. I literally couldn't be playing so many great games because I refuse destroying my eyes staring at a blurred picture. I'm looking at you RDR2, DBD, all new resident evils, war thunder, dying light 2 and pretty much anything I played in the last couple of years. Hats off to developers who know how to set it up right. I'm so glad some developers actually care about rendering a clear and crisp image.
Love the interview videos
I love the ethereal music John puts in his videos. Really immerses you
Bold of you to use DriveClub music in a Forza video. Possible DF Retro in the future?
Super awesome video! It was really interesting hearing from the team directly
I'm glad they finally moved on to volumetric clouds, i hope the Forza Horizon games will do the same. Most other engines/games have moved on to volumetric for a good reason.
They don't take up nearly as much space, they are 100% customizable/adaptive, can interact with light and weather systems and they don't need a team of people taking hundreds of hours of capture.
They "stole" it from Playground Games. Forza Horizon 5 was first game that uses Forzatech to have them.
@@UltraCasualPenguinBoth of them share tech with eachother.
@@UltraCasualPenguin Horizon 5 still uses the old ForzaTech
Well you still need a lot of capture, hahaha, but yeah the process is definitely less tedious.
@@RanielEber FH5 doesn't use same cloud system that was used in FM7.
Pre ordered. This was an amazing video can not wait!!!!!
Right on the 💰 and all the right questions asked👍🏻
Big 👏 to DF.
This should be the new standard for all AAA games. Interviews like this one calms the mind👍🏻.
Again insane production value and hat's of to DF👍🏻
6:49 That’s definitely Modern Vintage Gamer’s doppelgänger! Very similar looking dudes!
I really hope this game will get a proper HDR implementation. It deserves it!
It will. Other Forza games have amazing HDR.
Fantastic interview! Love these guys.
2 minutes in i got live service vibes though and 15:15 confirmed it. It sounds like you buy car parts to upgrade your car? Little worried
120fps mode should’ve been included on Xbox Series X as capping it to 60fps is ridiculous when the system can easily run 120fps without the on track ray tracing………
I don’t care about ray tracing on track and would much rather have 120fps as the driving is so much more immersive, and the super low input lag is worth lower visual fidelity and having 3 modes without 120fps is not a good decision
Gran Turismo has a nice 120fps mode on PlayStation 5 and Forza shouldn’t be lacking that mode as a flagship Xbox Series X Racing Game
Man now I’m hyped. Especially there at the end.
If their mission was to make a clean, noise and artifact "free" image, they succeeded. But, I am disappointed that the focus wasn't on more photorealism. For example, it appears that in none of the footage, that headlights actually cast shadows from other cars or physical objects. The headlights also don't light up the underside of the cars on the rear, as that "shadow field" seems to be there all the time, regardless of changing lighting. Forza Horizon 4 actually had this shadow casting on quality setting, and on PC it had it affecting other objects too (like roadside fences).
This is where I hate 4K and I hate Raytracing. They are so prioritized over physics and other much more impactful graphical features. This is why I'm glad Starfield went the way it did. The physics simulation and light simulation in that game is absolutely beautiful, without any gimmicks.
Yup something really off about a lot of that footage
I agree about RT, not 4k thought. Soft images is the worst imo. Mjch rather see other things sacrifised than image sharpness. Nothing has a greater impact on image quality than a blury image.
Also, funny you mentioned Starfield's lights, cause within the first 2 min of gameplay the one thing that bothered me was that npc's light didn't cast a shadow from the player - only ither npcs. Really bothered me for some reason :p
RT literally looks LOADS better in every scenario
@@andytaylor1 yeah it looks very "low budget" in that sense. Like an indie Unity game.
Thank you. I hope the actual tech breakdown of the game doesn't ignore the cars missing shadows and GI issues. It's hard to hear what they're saying and take it seriously over this weird looking footage. The game has looked this way all year. 2022's demo looked amazing.
Sharing that much information in such an open way. Respect!
Lookingbforward to playing it on PC. Also I can hear the Driveclub music in the background. I miss that game.
FINALLY SOMEONE GIVING THE OPTION OF HIGH GRAPHICS + GOOD FRAMERATE! Not everyone wants 4k. Props for that!
Framerate is locked at 60 online because of Forza's broken engine where physics are tied to framerate.
Man rip MSAA. Still the King of AA for me
As someone who loves Horizon but isn't much of a racing fan, this is brilliant and only makes me more ridiculously hyped for Fable
As a person who has spent a ton of time around performance Subarus, the paint texture @27:39 on the bumper of the S209 kind of blew my mind. Very accurate.
This is how all deep dive/Behind the scene videos should be awesome video! I was very unenthused by Turn 10s version of behind the scenes when all they said was built from the ground up!
This video proves things are built from the ground up! The other video was easy to make a mockery of!
Am I the only one not that impressed with the graphics? I'm sure there's many more polygons and raytracing, but overall it's still very plastic cars running on very sterile tracks. There's no sense of speed (which I still give the medal to Need for Speed Shift 2). Look at the headlights of the cars as they drive around at night or during dusk: it looks like we're back to Xbox 360 years. Stop trying to pump pure resolution when it would be far more beneficial to make racing more lifelike. Put more variation in on the track texture! Why is every track freshly paved? Needs more dust and debris! Racing cars gets dirty, even when not going offroad.