How to install stone cills
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 25 ก.พ. 2023
- In this video I go through how to install stone cills correctly. This is a detail that is so often missed its scary. These details have actually been around a very long time but brickies, site agents and building inspectors are not aware that all stone cills and heads should be installed to a certain detail.
It is important to note that every stone manufactures detail will vary slightly, they are all kind of similar but don't get caught out by thinking they are all the same. It is also important to note that the silo mortar is more than likely to strong and an alternative mix is normally specified.
Its also important to note the brick bond that abuts the stone cill, brickies often start with a 1/2 and 3/4 but this is incorrect. You will often need a piece next to the cill, particularly if the stone cill does not work bricks one side of both and this maintains the perps.
Ignore the brickwork, I am just trying to show how to install a stone cill, not enter a brickwork contest.
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Didn’t know any off that ! Good advice , cheers 👍
Your welcome e
makes good sense first saw bricklayers world wide "andy" do similar a while back , regarding weep holes has any one ever seen moisture weeping out of one ......thought not !
I’ve seen salt marks coming from where weeps are installed so that would indicate they do work, I suppose it depends on how clean the tray is 👍🏻
Great video. I would be interested in seeing your view on how to install a stone head correctly.
I will cover that sometime 👍🏻Just remember to check manufactures guidelines as everyone is different 👍🏻
thank you
You are welcome 👍🏻😀
Big problem is cracking with them cills...Seen it loads of times...I normally pull that damp on the blockwork over the cill so it protects it from any droppings and then cut it off when scaffold comes down. I dont know if its against the regs Ive never been pulled on it (Its still essentially acting as a tray)..And with heads i normally run some brick taw over the top of them if theres non of that train track...Little things like youve shown go a long way...i use that expansion foam for any lead works were theres a lean too roof or over bay windows..
We have done exactly the same previously because as you rightly state it still acts as a tray but building inspectors in our area insist on the detail being done as I’ve demonstrated. Although I do agree with you that it does the same thing and is probably better all round as it’s one less tray to clean. In terms of heads you need a slip plane, if you stick train track in then you are restricting movement which will cause more cracking
@@Tone_Team I know Gleesson houses up our end dont use any artsone on there stone houses..I dont know if its down to supply or wether down to the issues you have raised..I do like the look of stone features on houses but i also know the issues they can cause...See the magic man round reparing them regular...In terms of the heads..Could you not double damp tray them and you have created a slip plane and also provided a protector tray over the one below?? I know if ive ever had step trays going up side of a lean too roof i always put another full tray spaning length of the blockwork near the top to act as a kind of protection to stop any shit going into the step trays below..premier mans never pulled it and even said its a good idea..
@@grannyg8155 With stone heads you tend to place a 4" damp along the top of the head to create the slip plane. Sometimes they require a damp tray and sometimes they even require an L shaped linter, same as meter box linters, directly on the head as some manufactures heads are not load bearing. You will typically see secondary linters on timber heads, pre formed arch formers etc
What’s a train track?
@@Mt3Dpdrtk train track is brickwork reinforcement that sits in the bed joint
Are those reconstituted cills?
I always fit real stone cills made from local quarry, put em on full bed, never crack.
But that looks thorough job, not liking expansion foam, maybe cause cracking, hope not
They are reconstituted 👍🏻
@@Tone_Team great job you done, very good
Problem with that is when they pump in the insulation the damp stops it so you have a cold spot.
It could possibly cause a cold spot but the tray is still open either side of the window former so insulation can still flow inside, it as an 100mm opening each side 👍🏻
yeah...
then try & explain it to some brain dead contracts manager...
@@mark.lawrence 😂
Nice video. Why can't a continuous bed be installed under the cill, just to prevent cracking?
With a 2m wide two part cill do you just add four blobs of mortar, one at each end?
The only thing I don't like about the DPC going back to the inner leaf is the missing insulation causing a cold bridging area.
Thanks. Correct, it is to prevent cracking. With the longer cills or sometimes when you have a 3 piece cill you simply add a blob each end. I agree with DPC could cause a cold bridge but the cavity closure is insulated and should prevent this. Each manufacture is different so always check each individual supplier 👍🏻
Love it 🧱
🫶🏻
We got told to do it like that year’s ago on a Taylor wimpey site, thing is no matter how you lay them they look shit after a few years, they either go black with shit off the road or green with all the algae off trees ect
🫡 I don’t entirely disagree but what I would say is they need maintenance. I give mine a blast with the Jet washer when cleaning the car, patio etc and they come up nice
There is a sealer you can apply and will stop that .
As a novice I didn’t know any of that, thanks for the lesson , I’ve got six to do on my house.
Remember to check manufacturers installation guide as they can vary from product to product 👍🏻
Do
I need to replace the cills or can’t I just put in a course of bricks and have a cill on the new windows
@@peterlogan1623 if they haven’t been installed to this detail they don’t necessarily need replacing. But yes you can remove and replace with a brick course and add a cill to the window
@@Tone_Team the cills are all crumbling that’s why I need to remove them. So rather than replacing them the new double glaze windows would have a cill instead. I assuming I would have install a drip membrane and weep holes. Thanks very much for your advice.
@@peterlogan1623 if you are just removing the stone cills then replacing them with straight brickwork is fine, no need for a tray or weep vents. I am assuming your house is cavity way construction?
But now the joints don't line up after the top bricks are put onto the stall? how do the pther bricks look ontop of that?
Dont get me started
Lovely bit of stone, where can I buy that from thanks.?
Quick google search will show you loads of suppliers 👍🏻
Been doing this for the first time on a Taylor wimpey job. I do not understand the need for a tray. I get the rest but the tray part just seems pointless
I agree. I don’t see why it can’t sit on a 4” damp that acts as a slip plane! Damp tray is a right pain to keep clean
I know this is correct but what does the cavity tray do as no openings below .
To be perfectly honest I don’t know and I don’t agree withy he detail but you have to be compliant. I think a 4” damp all the way round the cill would act the same. House builders should challenge the detail but they never do
@@johnbryant6572 there is a weep hole either end of stone cill. Did you watch the video?
It's to create a slip plane when mixing concrete with clay they should never bond to each other
@@matthewingham7806 👨🎓
It stops any leaks from around the window getting into the cavity and running down the internal wall causing low level damp inside the property
If it’s a concrete cill then surely 18inch dpc up and over the back of the cill and frame on top would be ok . Our nhbc told us to do it like that then changed his mind about two months later ha
👷♂️
🫡
Slip cill be the same with no stools buddy. First of me seeing this way.
More than likely be the same mate but always check manufactures installation guide 👍🏻
@@Tone_Team
Always bed my damp same rest of your spec but never knew or done that with bedding format. Cheers.
Need purchase your brickwork guide. 🤟🤟
@@lmilne4859 Like I said in the video mate, always check the installation guide from the manufacturer as they may be a little different
We have had 3 different cill makers with 3 different instructions
On the same job?
@@Tone_Team yep peninne stone went under then tried 2 more firms
@@hod2116 Move jobs 🤣
The tray does nothing tho does it
I didn’t say it did. Cracks me up, I swear people think I make the rules up! I don’t agree with the tray. A 4” damp underneath would be adequate but I’m not in charge 😂
@@Tone_Team no mate I'm on your side I wasn't being funny I totally agree with what you say 😉
@@matthewingham7806 👍🏻
If they cracks that's then not makeing them right
If they are installed as per manufacturer’s guidelines and they crack at least you are covered. If you don’t install them correctly and they crack you don’t have a leg to stand on
@@Tone_Team ol
Just another 10 minute job ending up an hour with no extra money for it. Bet we have to fill it with mastic after as well.
👍🏻 about right
We are all gifted with legs ... if the price is not right move on ... best to go broke laying on a nice beach watching eye candy
@@chebarden8278 😁
No it's just another freebie the subbie expects us to do in his lift prices...😂
@@christophermcgovern7975 we allow in our price to fit cills and it’s always passed on to our subbies
Bond wrong if u Carnt see it u need to go to specsavers
Here we go 😂 it’s not, but anyway. It’s about the cill
It’s about everything
@@richardmarley3064 bond isn’t wrong. There is no discussion to be had. Thanks for watching, hope you learned something
Lol forgot more than u no san
@@richardmarley3064 an absoulte classic 👏🏻 how could you possibly know that
It tells you an the pack how to bed them pal
Ok
Can’t they just put some steel in the cill and make the cill a better product? Or use line mortar😂
Many moons ago there used to be a metal rod running through the cills. A bit like a concrete lintel! Not sure why they stopped
@@Tone_Team yeah I know it’s bizarre! Double Dutch mate
@@craigstyrin3453 just give more work to the brickies 😆😆
@@Tone_Team yeah exactly, I just do extensions now got fed up of site work.
It basically boils my piss some of the stuff they nit pic over😂
@@craigstyrin3453 much prefer site work! Find extensions hard work, up the ladder with all the gear, mixer etc! Site so much easier 😂
Not arguing with what the manufacturers say, what i will say though is this is such a bad way of doing it. What a way to make the simplest job in the land as annoying and time consuming as possible for no gain at all. Cant wait for it to become regs up here, taking its place along with ties coming out a course above and below windows and doors (including next to the lintels, ignoring the fact they are one giant tie)
I do agree that the manufacturers installation guide is a big over the top
Those perps didn’t end up lining up 😂
And here we have our first smart arse. I placed a full brick on the stool to demonstrate the damp slip plane, if you knew what you were talking about then you would know if there is a little piece against the stool then it will be a 3/4 on top of the stool, which means the perps would still line in.
Key board warrior
Take a laugh at you own expensive jeez.
You did a demo and put 3/4 up
Both side of the windows while saying no 3/4. Your the smart arse sir.
@@Liam-wd9qz im right tho
@@lduggan90 what are you on about. I put the stone cill in the middle of the brick panel I set out. I wasn’t trying to avoid a 3/4, I wasn’t worried about it working bricks because the point of the video was how to install a stone cill. Please rewatch it because you really have the wrong end of the stick
Stone Cill Installation Done Right...Then uses insulation ? What wrong with Mortar ,If you are going to use anything its Slate
Are you serious?
@@Tone_Team Why would i want a 10 mm pointed up bed joint under my Sills ,You have said yourself you jetwash them which will blow it out, Which you are not supposed to do with Artstone anyway
@@TheAsa1972 You know I don't make the rules right? Did you actually watch the video. How I installed the cill is not my personal preference, this is how the manufacturer of this particular stone wants them installed. It is all to do with movement and the stone cracking. There is no opinion here, its just the way these particular stone cills are to be done. Each stone is slightly different but they all follow the principles in this video. And you would never use slate to pack a cill.
@@TheAsa1972 and its not a 10mm pointed bed joint, its a mastic joint. You only bed and joint under the stool of the cill, gap gets masticed
@@Tone_Team Mastic and Foam even better and Mortar and Slate is all iv ever used that's if it needed Slate and as for Cleaning Artstone you use Jeyes fluid in a bucket of water .soak the stone with water a good soak then get a Deck hand bush and give it a scrub with the Jeyes fluid give 10 mins then wash it off..Its mint on Drives or Indian stone
Surely everyone knows this it’s been on sites for 15 years, I would sack a bricklayer if he didn’t know this.
What I find quite interesting is people miss the point about checking the manufacturer’s installation guide and assume every supplier is the same. They are all roughly the same but it’s worth checking on every site, we have the installation guide for each site pinned on the site managers wall 👍🏻 good to know you are aware of it, not that many are
Load of bollox
Thanks 😂
It is tho isn’t it they just need bedding on properly if they’re cracking then they need a better quality stone cills /heads every site has a different way of doing it where we are now they want empty joints were weeps are and no dpc on top of cill and on the heads a cavity tray above as well like I said it’s a load of bollox
@@jeffred6616 have you checked the manufacturer’s installation guide? Or are you just doing what you are asked to do?
That’s how we’re told to do it far too much dpc involved just adding to our work load we don’t get paid for it it’s all in the the price nobody on our site does it and nobody checks either like I said earlier cills and heads need manufacturing better in my opinion we shouldn’t have to use sub standard materials
@@jeffred6616 I totally agree I am just showing how it should be done from certain manufacturers. Don’t shoot the messenger 😉
What aload of old bollocks , they didnt do this years ago , and they didnt have any damp problems. This is just to make brickwork look complicated. What a waste of time and money
I don’t make the rules mate 😂
Why would there be a queen's closer cut either side of the cill, any job I was on over the years the brickwork was built in bond for the cills and mullions, to fit without silly wee cuts that would need to carry All the way up the elevation, never seen that setup in my life, there's brickwork sizes for a reason and that usually accommodates for door and window openings, always bond especially on facing work, and a damp tray under the cill with weep joints, doesn't make sense, where's the water going to come from, the window,.
My biggest frustration on TH-cam is viewers have formulated their reply and opinion before they have even watched the video. Let’s start with the damp tray. A damp tray is required by the manufacturer of this particular stone cill. Do I agree with it? No, do I think it’s required? No, is it actually a breach of the cavity, no. But unfortunately this is how they are to be installed. In terms of 3/4 up windows and doors of course we try to avoid them, I mean why would we ever want to create work for ourselves? The fact of the matter is that not all windows, doors, openings will work Brickwork, that is a fact and unfortunately I do not determine the opening sizes. All I done in this video was stick the stone on central to the space I had and I thought I would demonstrate what to do if you do have a 3/4 one side. And for reference the queen closure would not carry on up the opening.