Just bought my 4XE a week ago and love it. Your information, both videos and in the forums has been the most informative of anything I've found. Thank you for all the research and time you've put into this.
I just bought my very first jeep (4xe) the other day. I absolutely love it. I have so many questions about this vehicle but I’ll keep it to one lol. Once the battery is depleted in hybrid mode can I continue to run it in hybrid or do I need to switch to e-save mode?
Great info. Thank you for clarifying. This system makes more sense to me. My Lexus hybrid battery rarely drops below 70-80% charge. It makes me think it is not utilizing the battery to its potential.
Fantastic explanation! As a current ev owner as well, it seems like for some folks, the learning curve is quite steep. Especially for dealerships who probably want nothing to do with this new platform.
I live in an apartment and do not have a way to plug the Jeep into an electrical source. Would the 4xe still benefit me in hybrid mode? or would I be better off with a gas engine?
I explain to folks like this: Charging the battery while you drive would be like driving with the parking break partially on. Everyone who gets a hybrid, or EV for that matter, should take a quick 30 minute physics course on how energy works. Once the battery is depleted, your best option is to plug back up. It is nice re-capturing some of the kinetic energy of the vehicle with battery regen while slowing down though! Good video!
Agreed. Personally I do not think pure EV tech is currently viable in the US market, mostly because of our unique geography and driving habits. However, they do work in niche environments. Unfortunately, we seem to have a populace of which the majority have never taken a physics class and have no innate understanding of newtonian physics. So an equally important element to consider when understanding why EV's (and PHEV to a lesser extent) are not taking off in the states is understanding Americans. Toyota is pretty sharp, hybrids work well for the States. Maximizing the efficiency and efficacy of a vehicle like the Wrangler 4xe is beyond most Americans capacity, and without putting in the effort to learn and execute, owners are likely to be dissapointed. Videos like this are super helpful. I actually kind of feel bad for Jeep dealerships imagining all the upset people who are complaining about their 4xe's when the reality is it's user error. All of this without even talking about how its also important for users to understand FORM and how they need to perform certain tasks to help extend the life of their ICE.
I have a question: when the gas engine decides to kick on, I’m concerned the engine kicks on for the first time under load. I can’t imagine it’s good , particularly cold weather, for the engine to turn over, under load, without allowing any oil to warm up or flow through the engine. Wouldn’t this cause premature wear on the engine and components ?
@@JakeG360 This makes sense and I hadn’t thought about it. The 4XE can start the gas engine and leave the ILE clutch between the engine and the P2 motor open. It can operate as a series hybrid with that clutch open which allows the P1 motor/generator to provide power. I have noticed it doing that when the engine first starts. Then it closes that clutch and goes in to parallel operation.
Your videos are absolutely amazing! Thank you so much for taking the time to get this information out there! This was far more informative than any details provided by the dealerships & sadly, JEEP itself. I just brought home my first plug-in hybrid 2023 Jeep Wrangler Sahara 4xe. Based on your video, it seems like for short-distance, local driving, it is best to solely rely on the battery, so you would drive in electric mode...makes sense. What about for long-distance highway driving? My commute to work is roughly 35 miles of highway driving. Fortunately, we do have commercial level 2 charges, so I can charge at work & based on your information, it seems it is best to drive the car in hybrid mode. Is that accurate? Also, what about the max re-gen button? From your video, I have learned that you are only charging when you are decelerating. Based on this, does it only make sense to throw this button on when you are going down hill with your foot off the gas pedal? Are there any other times that you would recommend throwing on the max regen? Should the car be in e-save mode to maximize charging or can it be in hybrid mode? Your help is greatly appreciated!
For short commutes, electric mode is likely to be your best best bet. It raises the engine start threshold and avoids short engine runs. For a 35 mile commute, hybrid is likely your best bet. There are a lot of people that will either use eSave and/or shift the vehicle in to manual mode. It would be hard to say for certain that you would get more benefit out of trying to out-think the system. It’s worth some experimenting, don’t get me wrong. But from a net-energy perspective, it would be difficult to say that using different modes will result in better overall efficiency. There are many that claim they can make it do better but they are usually going by the MPG estimator in the dash which I have found to be inaccurate when I pair that up against checking my gas mileage at the pump. I pretty well leave my max regen on for my daily driving but usually turn it off on the highway. Turning max regen on not only provides the extra deceleration from the P2 motor/generator but also remaps the top portion of the accelerator pedal. You can vary the amount of regen with that top remapped portion. The only reason I turn it off on the highway is that it’s really not doing much and when I do want to let off the accelerator, I usually don’t want it slowing down as much as it does. The 4XE has a blended braking system so when you put your foot on the brake, you aren’t necessarily applying the friction brakes. If you lightly put your foot on the brake, the deceleration you feel is coming from the P2 motor/generator in the transmission. So any time you need an extra bit of deceleration, you still grab a little energy.
The thing about eSave is it is the least efficient mode. If you are charging with eSave, you are asking the gas engine to work harder which will result in using more gas. It’s a closed loop and there is no free lunch.
The first thing you can do at a drive through is reach over and hit your AC button to off. That will quiet a lot of things down. You can also build a Pedestrian Warning System bypass switch and that will quiet that part down. Video: th-cam.com/video/e2_3K8dOXso/w-d-xo.html
We got our jeep 4xe this past weekend. This hybrid stuff is all new to me. I appreciate your video and explanations. I guess my question would be, what is the best mode to drive this vehicle on a daily basics.
If you can cover your daily drive in electric, use it. You can leave it in hybrid mode but it’s good to be aware if causing a lot of short engine runs. A lot of short engine runs can lead to oil dilution. That’s an issue with direct injection engines. If you search some videos here on YT about oil dilution on direct injection engines, it helps to understand the issue. But a lot of people can leave it in hybrid mode and not cause a lot of short engine runs. It depends on how heavy your foot is.
Having a hard time understanding. So when is the best time to use max regen button? Also, from what I got, basically always keep vehicle on hybrid/electric for fuel efficiency? Is that right? Thanks in advance.
My personal approach to Max Regen is if I'm going to be in traffic that is at or under 40-45MPH. It only kicks in when you lift your foot from the accelerator. Well, I should add, it does remap the top inch or so of the accelerator pedal so you can vary the amount of regen. It allows for almost one pedal driving. The 4XE has a blended braking system that uses the electric motor to decelerate the vehicle when you apply pressure to the brake pedal. So it would be hard to argue that you will get more or less return energy with max regen on or off. Some people report that they get more range with it on. I haven't been able to prove that in my testing. So you can technically leave it in hybrid mode all the time. There are some things to consider. The vehicle will use the electric only range until the battery is depleted even in hybrid mode. But in electric mode, the system raises the point at which the gas engine will kick in to provide additional power. If you area in hybrid mode, you may be more likely to have the engine kick on in stop and go traffic. That can be an issue during the winter due to Fuel Oil Refresh Mode. A lot of short engine runs can cause oil dilution. The system can't detect oil dilution but there is software running that calculates when you might have oil dilution and go in to FORM to try to burn off some of that fuel in the oil. Running hybrid mode might actually result in a short engine runs depending on how heavy your foot is. But a lot of people leave it in hybrid mode and have no issues. But I have also talked with a lot of people that sort of get stuck in FORM in the winter and a lot of them have indicated that they use hybrid mode. Bottom line, if you want to maximize your electric usage, you can use electric mode but hybrid mode works too. Now on long trips, after battery depletion, I use hybrid mode all of the time. The eSave mode will use more gas so hybrid mode is the most efficient.
@@Wrangler4XEFans Wasn’t expecting such a thorough response! Definitely earned a sub! Thanks for the info, going to keep that in mind especially since it’s cold in TN atm. Also requested the FB Group🤙🏽
Great video! I'm so glad somebody understands this. What MPG would you get if you never plug in? For example, somebody who daily drives 15 miles and never needs gas decides to do a coast-to-coast adventure road trip. They drive 500 miles per day filling as needed with gas and camping nightly in the boonies. Once they get home, they return to their 15 mile commute. During their 8,000 mile road trip, what would their expected MPG be?
I’m not sure I have a solid answer on that yet. In some 120 and 130 miles tests, I saw around 24MPG. From talking to some friends who have Wranglers with the 2.0, they said their gas milage got better over the first few thousand miles as the engine broke in. So right now I’d say around 24MPG but I need a good trip to find out. Plus, I probably only have about a thousand miles with the gas engine running at this point so I don’t know what it will be like down the road.
@Saltponds239 I care. My current overland setup is a 2006 Jeep Liberty Sport Diesel 4x4 I bought new. Apart from a set of stock sized Firestone Destination AT2's and a GDE tune it is bone stock. I get 29 mpg highway and 26 MPG city. With the stock fuel tank my range is over 500 miles. For very long trips, such as the Pan-American highway, I put a lockable aero box on lockable Thule crossbars on the roof. I carry no fridge and no external mounted winch. For sleeping, we carry a two man tent. For shorter US only trips we carry two bicycles on a trailer hitch rack instead of the roof box. I always stay on roads or trails and always practice Leave No Trace, as should everyone. I envision a 4XE equipped with a custom hard top with about 1kw of built in solar panels, which if parked in the sun might give about 20 miles range per week, which is more than I daily drive. I also envision future models with more battery and only a small, efficient gasoline powered generator in a parallel hybrid configuration. The 4XE is a new, different, and interesting step in that direction. Car nerds like us care about such things. When future models have a gasoline only MPG over 30 and a gasoline only range over 500 I might buy one.
It wouldn’t make any sense to do that. The extra weight of the battery cancels out most of the benefit of the hybrid and you might only get 2 mpg better that’s the regular turbo 4. Plugging in make a huge difference. In my driving I’m between 40-50 mpg.
What if there is heavy heavy stop and go traffic situation for a long period of time and the 4xe is on its reserve 15% battery, is it possible then to completely deplete the battery to the point where it no longer has enough power to move the vehicle? If so, would the 4xe be able to easily charge up some reserve?
There are two motor/generators. If the engine is running, the one on the front of the engine is constantly turning. So there’s always a constant energy source to maintain that ~15%.
You can use it, it just has its place. If you want to save the battery until later, that’s where it really comes in to play. Say if you are headed from a camp site to the trail and the trailhead is 10 miles away. If you want to save the battery for the trail, then you could use eSave on the way there. For daily use, it just uses more gas than it would if you just leave it in hybrid mode.
@@Wrangler4XEFans copy that...thank you for the explanation. I am debating whether I want to purchase a 4xe so trying to learn as much as I can. I have a Mustang Mach E on order but trying to decide if I want to go a different route before it is produced.
I have 23 mile commute to work one way, so It would be more cost effective to drive on electric there and gas on the way back? Then to drive on hybrid there and back?
Great job and explanation by the way. I just bought a 4xe and is not recharging the battery at all. I charge the battery up to 100% on a level 2 charger and within an hour driving just a few miles my charge goes below >1%. What’s your opinion?
@@MikolsonAvant That’s what it’s supposed to do. PHEVs operate that way. They have a short electric only range then operate as a hybrid. It recharges the bottom 15% of the battery but we can’t see that on any gauge. When the screen says
hello group, We are planning buying this great 4xe but we need to tow a 3000 pounds RV trailer. Spec shows a capacity of 3500. Are we good to go and how the jeep will react?
LOve my RUbi 4xe! I end up driving 90% of the time in Electric, occassionally the gas engine kicks on while accelerating up this steep freeway onramp, but most of my driving is with the electric motor. I do LOVE the electric engine while off roading though. I use the gasoline engine most time until I get to a steep area where torque matters, and the car is KING!
I am picking up my Wrangler rubicon 4xe x Wednesday. I live in a coop with no ability to charge the jeep. What is the best drive mode I should use. I live in the city so I will be in traffic in the morning and at night no traffic.
Your best bet is hybrid mode. Using eSave to charge the battery uses more gas. From a net energy perspective, even if you spin off of the electric miles gained from using eSave, you still come out worse than using hybrid mode. Now, you will have people tell you that you can use esave in some combination with hybrid mode and get good gas milage. That's because they are using the dash board MPG calculator and not calculating at the pump when they fill up. The on board calculator can be off pretty bad when using esave which leads some people to believe it's doing better than what it is. Do you have any place near your work where you can charge?
@@tomtom-jt4ef I would imagine you don’t even have access to a 120 volt outlet, right? There are some parts of the US that are so problematic to electrify. I still can’t believe New York set a date of 2035 for all new cars to be electric. I don’t see how New York City will be able to adapt that quickly. That’s a lot to accomplish in 12 short years.
@@Wrangler4XEFans my coop is not allowing me to install in my garage I have and at work we have a generator that is used to run our equipment. Is it bad to use a generator to charge the jeep?
@@Wrangler4XEFans unfortunately I wanted a wrangler and the regular v6 had no promotion and I didn’t want to spend over 790 month on car payments. And all the sales said that it’s not problem you don’t have to charge the jeep you can run it with gas I guess I’m the fool they got me
I am having trouble wrapping my head around how this works even though you did an excellent job in explaining it.. does the primary person drive this in hybrid mode ? I understand when you're around town you want to use the electric mode or at most often. reading on the stickers at the dealership it says you're getting 45 to the gallon. how is that when you're going back and forth ? my next question is my understanding there's not many public charging stations is that correct ? thanks in advance for the information anyone
In my case, I live 8 miles from my office. So I put it in electric mode for my daily commute. Since I can operate it within the electric range, I can go most days without running the gas engine. You can leave it in hybrid mode and it will primarily default to electric while the battery has a charge. The down side to hybrid mode for daily use is that it is likely to cause the engine to start when you pull away from stop lights. The engine can still start in electric mode if demand is high enough but you have to really get on it before it will start. The demand threshold is higher in electric mode that in hybrid mode. One down side to allowing the gas engine to start repeatedly when pulling away from stop lights is that it can cause a lot of short engine runs. This can be an issue with direct injection engines as it can cause oil dilution. This problem is exacerbated when it's cold out. The 4XE has software that predicts (based on use) if oil dilution is occurring. The vehicle can trigger a Fuel Oil Refresh Mode (we call FORM) which causes the engine to automatically run to try to burn off the oil dilution issue. A lot of people ran in to issues with Jeeps getting stuck in FORM without the ability to get it out of it without an oil change last winter. So if you look closely at that sticker, it doesn't actually say 49MPG, it says 49MPGe. MPGe is a confusing concept. It's an efficiency rating created to give the consumer something close to an apples to apples comparison between traditional gas vehicles and alternative fuel vehicles. It only applies to electrified propulsion and is not a combined gas mileage when in hybrid mode. As an example, a Tesla Model Y may be rated at 131 MPGe. A model Y has no gas engine at all. So the Wrangler 4XE has a rating of 21MPG when when operating as a hybrid and a rating of 49MPGe when operating in electric only. As to the public chargers, that varies greatly by market. You can download an app called PlugShare to see the chargers in your area.
hey, ive never owned a jeep. Just wondering how easy or hard is it to steal the jeep 4xe catalytic converter? with the rise in cat theft you have to consider it when planning to buy a new vehicle. hope a video of this topic is coming out specific to the jeep 4xe
Hey brother its my 2nd day owning the 4xe so hybrid mode is a no go i should alternate ? I mean im only going to use it on short commutes on my days off but later down the line i want to take it off roading
The issue that we’ve seen with people who leave it in hybrid mode is the tendency for the vehicle to create a lot of short engine runs. Those short engine runs can lead to oil dilution. The system has software running to predict oil dilution and can push the vehicle in to Fuel Oil Refresh Mode. The only way to clear FORM is to take it on a long drive to get the temperature up OR get an oil change. There have been issues where even the long drive won’t clear it and the only solution is an oil change. So the best way to avoid those short engine runs is to use electric mode when your daily travel can be covered by the electric range. Now, there is a 90 day timer on the gas tank to be aware of. If you don’t fill it up in 90 days, it will also trigger FORM until you burn off some gas then fill it up again. There is also a timer on the engine and it needs to run periodically. That timer will also trigger FORM. But the gas tank timer and the engine lubrication timer are both easy to resolve where the oil dilution version of FORM can be a little problematic. So given my choice, I’ll risk hitting the timers before I risk hitting the oil dilution version of FORM.
Ok another question yesterday i charged it to about 50% just so on the drive home it can go back to 3 percent should i atart charging it more often or is there an issue with the vehicle
Yo man it was a 14 mile drive i wanted to see how the charging worked i went after the gym long story short i spent about 2hrs charging it, it hit 50% but the drive home it went down to 2% i was a little frustrated 😠 because the first day i took it to ontario and i got about 50+ miles on hybrid got it at 15 miles and put a good 90 miles i was impressed i have more then half a tank at the moment i just wanted to know if i should be concerned or what the best setting for it should be.
@@ferminpirul7390 If you got 50 miles, there was some engine running time involved. In hybrid mode, the engine will come on and off as demand increases and decreases.
03/08/22 I placed an order for my Rubicon 4Xe thanks for this video looking forward to taking my new Jeep off the trails, with gasoline prices spiking and most likely getting higher :( I'm glad I'm moving into the hybrid world.
Not sure if 4xe Rubicon is optimized for off the grid travel. The range of gas power is limiting and a lot of dead weight to carry around when your battery runs out. If you just want to use it as a local transport then it might make sense.
Is there an accurate measure of mpg/hybrid operations? What is the best metric to ascertain relative efficiency? How does this compare with VW, Ford and Kia hybrids?
MPGE is likely the most reliable metric to compare PHEVs to each other. Now comparing a regular hybrid to the 4XE, the best way is to probably compare straight MPGs. PHEVs have both MPGE and MPG listed on their stickers. MPGE applies to the vehicle when under electric-only propulsion. The MPG rating is after the battery is depleted and it operates more like a standard hybrid.
There’s a lot to unpack there. Especially after the updates. I don’t have any data to back up this statement but it seems like there is a variable ramping based on what gear the transmission is in. I’ve tried to analyze it by feel and watching the gears. It’s just a theory I have with no way to see the data. But it’s a good thought for a video if I could figure out how to see some data.
Before I bought my Sahara 4xe I was driving a 2018 Chevy Bolt which was is a fully electric vehicle, the Bolt was equipped with the Regen feature and true one pedal driving was possible, the difference between the two vehicles was that with the Chevy Bolt I could actually gain an additional 10 miles of battery range and on occasion in heavy stop and go traffic on the freeway I could gain almost an additional 15 miles. With the Sahara 4xe no such thing ! I have yet to experience any battery regeneration with one pedal driving.
It’s been a little bit since I’ve done a good test but I was seeing 24MPG in a couple early tests. I have a road trip coming up. Hope to do some testing.
We picked ours up this week. We live in Vegas and it’s been very hot. The electric battery only lasts about 10 miles and after that we get about 16 MPG with the temperature over 100 degrees and the A/C on high. Not too good 😩
I originally thought the e-save mode worked by keeping the engine running at higher RPMs even at low speeds, allowing the car to move while simultaneously charging the battery. Higher engine RPMs typically mean greater efficiency, so even at low speeds, the engine could stay in its optimal efficiency range, storing excess energy in the battery. This would avoid the inefficiency of traditional internal combustion engines running at low speeds, thereby improving MPG. It seems I misunderstood how it actually works. But is this the logic of hybrid mode when batter is
@@zx56vb What you are describing is series hybrid operation. It would be cool if the 4XE had an option to do that. It does do a series mode when the engine first starts. There’s a clutch between the gas engine and the transmission that stays open for a timed start cycle. That allows the engine to circulate oil and warm up a little before loading it. But then is closes that clutch and goes in to parallel hybrid operation. One big reason why it doesn’t have a mode to stay in series mode is that it would lose all the horsepower of the gas engine.
know about level 2 charging systems? Which is best? what do you use? should i get a mopar? already have correct electric but does all warranties stay in effect if you dont get mopar to install? please need help
As long as it's UL, that's what is needed for any warranty issues. I have a couple ClipperCreek chargers that work great. A lot of people get the Mopar one. Grizzl-e, ChargePoint, JuiceBox are all good. Just don't get a Mustart. We've heard too many bad experiences with the 4XE on those.
So I am in the market for a 4xe and I've heard all sorts of different info on MPG after the battery is depleted. What kind of MPG are you seeing after you have used up all of your battery charge?
I’ve only done a couple 120 to 130 mile tests after battery depletion and was seeing around 24MPG. I’ve heard from other gas Jeep owners that their gas mileage gets better over the first few thousand miles. So I don’t know if it might get a little better or if that number is even reliable since it wasn’t far enough for a really good test.
@@Wrangler4XEFans That sounds more in line with what I was expecting. I've seen a couple of reports in the Forums of people saying they are only getting 270 miles with a full tank and full charge. I've got a 2018 3.6 JLU Rubicon and I can get over 400 miles on a tank. 350 miles would be acceptable, but under 300 miles before any modifications seem low.
I bought my Sahara 4xe 10 days ago. The first tank of gas I was toying with the system and got roughly 350. This last tank of gas I got I plug it in at work for a full charge and at home for a 3/4 charge. I am right now 150 miles on the current tank and just reached a 1/4 tank used. I’m going to estimate almost 400 miles on a tank of gas. What I am seeing from a friend that has the same Jeep he has done several trips and doesn’t always charge getting 360 miles to a tank of gas.
If recent studies area correct, modern, thermally managed batteries should be good for 12-15 years. With the way battery prices have been dropping over the past decade, it's really hard to say what the price for replacement will be by then. The battery pack in the 4XE would have been around $21,000 in 2010. The current pricing I'm finding on any websites is over $11,000. But I have a feeling that's not the correct price since the original price difference between a comparable 4XE and a standard Wrangler isn't near that much. Based on the current downward trend in battery prices, my guess would be that a replacement battery might be a couple thousand by the time it needs replaced, and that's including labor. But there is also a growing industry in battery repair. There are companies that will open a pack and replaced the bad cells instead of replacing the entire thing. The Wrangler 4XE will be a prime candidate for this kind of work since the battery is so accessible.
So to be clear, I'm still confused, you can't drive in gas only or switch between gas and/or electric? You drive with electric first then it switches to gas when less than 1%?
The clarification is that the 4XE is always a hybrid. Under normal circumstances, there isn’t a time when it operates just on gas alone. It’s always utilizing the hybrid system. So yes, you can switch between electric and hybrid but switching to hybrid doesn’t negate the electric side.
I don’t think those back seats can do any kind of reclining at all. I haven’t found any way they could. And it seems like the front seats only go so far forward. If they can go flat, I haven’t figured it out.
It seems like about 60-70 miles is about as far as the benefit of PHEV system. With a full charge, you’ll get up around 30MPG up to about 60 miles or so. Now keep in mind, that 30 MPG figure is a little dirty because of the added electrical energy use that isn’t calculating in. But beyond that 60 or so miles, it drops down to 22-24 MPG. So long distances isn’t it’s strong suit.
I just got the '23 Rubi 4xe automatic and wondering how do you get more than 22 miles on electric mode? only one week old and still figuring it out! does the manual vs automatic have different mileage?
Just collected my Jeep Sahara eTorque , opted for it over the 4XE because of the poor electric only range and the relative high cost. I am Tesla owner as well, could not justify the additional $10,000 for the 4XE. Love the Jeep, (first time Jeep owner). Good Video on the inner workings of the electric motor on the 4XE.
I'm glad I bought early before all of the price increases. When I bought mine, it was only about $2500 more than a comparably equipped gas model. So with the tax break, that made it cheaper than a gas model.
@@baro4178 Lower speed roads. Anything that’s not highway speeds. Not sure what speeds are best since I haven’t played with it a lot but I have found that it does better when not on the highway.
It has two e save modes. One that charges the battery (and drops your mileage a bit) and one that just save the battery. It will charge on the highway in e-save with the battery charge selection.
Mpg might be different, but mpg mean miles per gallon. My friend has one and we went on a road trip and his electric battery never charged up by driving long period of time. Was he doing something wrong?
@@Wrangler4XEFans it’s too complicated for me. I use to own a rubicon but I do way too much highway driving and getting older. Lol. But I do want one and unsure about seating them on top of the battery and no rear side airbags.
It breaks the first law of thermodynamics. Alternators have internal spinning resistance. The more current they produce the more resistance they create. So it ends up being counterproductive. Perpetual motion has been proven impossible many times.
So what mode do you recommend? Newbie for a week now and want to get the best of my expensive vehicle . Had to order a new plugin because the one it came with is a joke 15/16 hours to charge we have never been charged 100% yet but besides that this is a awesome 2024 Willy’s
You will hear a lot of people say to leave it in hybrid mode and forget it. You can do that but there are some things to be aware of that I'll get to in a minute. My daily drive is 16 miles round trip. So I use electric mode. My goal from the start has been to get the most of the electric mode that I can. Hybrid mode will use the electric first then use the gas engine when you've reached the end of the range. But in hybrid mode, the demand start threshold is way lower than in electric mode. Even in electric mode, if you put floor it you can still get the engine to start. But in hybrid mode, it can start the engine when pulling away from stop signs and stop lights. That can be an issue. One of the things to be aware of with the 4XE is that it has a direct injection engine. One issue with DI engines is that short engine runs can cause oil dilution. If you area starting and stopping the gas engine 8-10 times on the way to work then doing the same thing on the way home, that can cause oil dilution. The 4XE has predictive software running to estimate when you are getting oil dilution. When that happens, the vehicle will enter Fuel Oil Refresh Mode or FORM. FORM is there to protect the engine but during the winter, you may sort of get stuck in it. While it's in FORM, it locks out electric operation and the engine will always run. You should be able to go for a good drive and it will clear FORM but sometimes it just gets stuck in that state and only an oil change will clear it. So this is one of the reasons I always use electric mode. Now, if you go 90 days between fill ups, you can also go in to FORM until you use around 4-5 gallons of gas and top off your tank. But that kind of FORM is easier to clear. There's also a timer on the gas engine as it just needs to run from time to time. But again, if it goes in to FORM due to that, it's easy to clear. So I'll risk hitting that kind of FORM over the oil dilution kind any day. I've had my 4XE since 3/31/21 and have only had FORM once for about 24 hours. So I think I'm doing something right.
Can I ask what kind of range you get in a tank of gas? I'm trying to decide if this would work for me, but I can't wrap my head around the MPGe confusion.
I live in Connecticut. Our Kilowatt costs here are 2nd highest in the nation. We pay around 24-kwh. IE 24 cents per KW hour. Then, if I have a level 2 charger connected in the garage... cost of an electrician to do it and cost to charge, it might actually defeat the savings on gas mileage with the high cost of charging it. However, saving $7500 on the lease price to lease it is a huge cost savings over a non hybrid version. That alone might make this all worth buying for me. I'm pretty much planning on placing my order anyway this week. Of course another concern is , will this Jeep be reliable. First year technology does worry me.
Most seem to be fairly reliable. Some are having battery chiller failures. Mine went at 1800 miles. I leased mine so long term reliability wasn’t a huge concern for me and the warranty is decent. You always take a chance with new tech though.
Ok, so basically it is always hybrid. And the three buttons (hybrid, elec, esave) only change which power source is prioritised/biased, how hard the jeep will try to recharge the battery and how easily the gas engine will kick in? Right? So it might just be me, but I would find it more logical to have the 3 buttons layed out differently to reflect the bias. For example: elec, hybrid, gas. The more left you go in the buttons, the ‘greener’ your journey gets. Also, the max regen button should not be in the center console. It should be with the others on the left side of the steering wheel too. Another remark: I find the negative Kw used to indicate the charge of the battery confusing. In my mind, a negative ‘draws’ from the battery and a positive number adds. Same for the ‘speedometer’ showing the charge. I’d like that to be flipped around too with the needle going up for charge and down for draw. But apparently Jeep does not agree with me ;) I got my testdrive booked for Monday. Curious to see how it does in the mountains here when going 30mins uphil uphil at 40mph. And how driveable it is in max regen mode back down.
Keep in mind that driving is primarily an energy consumption proposition (wind resistance) That's why the sign convention is assigned to the discharge side of things. That's why charging is a negative value.
Thanks for the Correct information. Im looking at a 2022 Jeep GC 4XE and the sales people are just clueless. They are programmed at training to say anything, sell car!
It doesn’t have a gas mode. It is always a hybrid. Even if you don’t plug it in, it will still operate the gas engine and the bottom end of the battery together in hybrid mode. The vehicle will utilize regen and other opportunities to charge the battery to a minimal state so it has full power when needed.
@@raide1448 There simply is no “gas only” mode. That idea has been miscommunicated a lot. I was able to confirm this with the lead engineer on the 4XE project. The Wrangler 4XE is always a hybrid no matter what mode it‘s in. The modes simply change the bias of the hybrid system. Granted, it greatly favors the gas engine in eSave mode but it’s still utilizes the electric motors when demand is high. You can watch the power flow on the hybrid screen and see that it still uses the battery, it just doesn’t use it as much as hybrid mode. It also works harder at holding the battery at the level if it is in hold mode or works to charge in charge mode in the sub-menu.
People need to think of max regen like tow/haul mode or an engine break. The regen starts automatically when you press the breaks, max regen just starts applying it when you let off the accelerator so you don't really coast it starts regen right away.
Have you ever been able to get your battery percentage up using the max regen? I just got a 4xe. I've been trying to brake as little as possible and instead use the max regen button as my brake. I leave it off most of the time so I can coast as much as possible optimizing whatever thrust I've already gotten out of the battery (sometimes even putting it in neutral 😄). I thought I'd maybe go up at least 1% on occasion, but never. Only down😒. And quickly
The 4XE has a blended braking system. So when you put your foot on the brake, you are creating the same regen and max regen creates. During normal braking, the friction brakes only grave for the last few feet to bring the vehicle to a full stop. The theory of coasting vs. using regen (when used properly) hasn’t been proven to be better overall. If you are coming to a stop, might as well grab all the energy you can. To that point, when you coast, you aren’t regening anything. So it’s a lost opportunity…especially if you put it in neutral. Max regen will not charge up the vehicle. You won’t gain percentage because it only applies during deceleration. You pretty well burn off that gained energy when you pull away from a stop. The biggest benefit of max regen is near one pedal driving in city traffic. It’s almost pointless on the highway. The other benefit is that it remaps the top one inch of the accelerator so you can vary the amount of regen. That way, you can vary it based on conditions which plays back in to the coast theory. If you utilize the variable amount of regen with the remap, you can maximize your energy return where coasting gives nothing back.
@@Wrangler4XEFans Thanks. So braking powers the battery to the same degree as max regen! I found that pressing the regen button instead of breaking to be quite a pain compared to just using the brake pedal, but I wanted to maximize by battery. Good to know.
@@JordanShokrian If you leave max regen on, you can vary it by feathering the accelerator. So you don’t have to turn it off. But yes, the brake pedal is doing almost the same thing during normal braking. It would be hard to make the case that max regen captures more energy than good braking due to the blended braking system. Max regen just sort of allows for near one pedal driving around town.
@@Wrangler4XEFans Thanks for the tip. I put the electric meter window on the screen (like you have in the video) and kinda compared max regen to braking, and they do in fact seem to be about the same. So I'm leaving regen off and just using the brakes like I normally drive. I figure the more it's on the more I have to use the accelerator which by my logic kinda evens things out anyhow.
I get 20MPG after the battery dies. If I use e-save to charge it while driving with max regen, I get 18.5MPG. It's honestly only suitable for short drives. I live 4 mins from work and don't burn a drop of gas all week if I'm only going to work and back. Anything else and the battery dies super fast
So in summary, what is the best driving mode..hybrid and let the Jeep computer calculate when it uses battery or gas? I can drive to work and back home on all electric (20 miles roundtrip) and wondered if I should drive in electric vs hyrbrid.
It makes some great decisions in Hybrid mode without a doubt. I use electric because it's less likely to start the gas engine if I get on it a little bit. My goal is more about electric range than performance. But I could totally do hybrid mode and it would operate in electric mode as much as it felt it could. The difference comes down to how heavy your right foot is. Now, if I'm driving somewhere that I know I'll go beyond the electric range, I leave it in hybrid mode and let it make its own decisions about what it wants to do since the engine is going to run at some point anyway.
I was under the impression that there *is* either a generator(DC) connected to the axle(s) with a firmware controlled current limiter or the motors themselves can become generators. Under normal operation, the current is limited to zero. Under regen the limit is x number of amps and with max regen the limit is 2x. No?
There are two motor/generators. P1 is on the front of the engine and P2 is in the transmission. They are both able to switch between motor and generator quickly. P1 to the front of the engine, P2 to the transmission. The P2 motor is a 3 phase AC motor. It can very quickly go from pushing the Jeep forward to providing deceleration by changing the phases. There is no generator at the axels.
Question. I understand turbos need time to cool off once the engine is turned off. I've heard turbo engines with stop start technology have had turbo failure because they're constantly being turned on and off while they're still hot. The 4xe has a turbo engine which assits the electric portion of the drive train. It also will be turning on and off when needed. Do you know what jeep has done to remedy this? Or is this old news that's already been taken care of? I really want to buy the 4xe and I have faith the battery will be solid. It's the turbos that I'm concerned about. What are your thoughts?
What a great question. I have no idea. I will say that the 4XE normally goes in to all electric when I pull in my driveway. It also has a cool down cycle when shut off. But I honestly don't know about this from a turbo perspective.
What is the actual intrinsic mpg AFTER you use the full electric. So say I leave my house with 1% charge what’s my mpg gonna be for a 100 mile trip (just an example). I’ve been trying to get a straight answer on this with no luck.
@@SlaytncUnfortunately , that doesn’t work. That falls in to what is called perpetual motion which violates the 1st and 2nd laws of thermodynamics. Alternators and generators have internal spinning resistance. The internal spinning resistance adds a load to the vehicle which would consume more power. Any power produced gets used in the production.
Miles per gallon equivalent (MPGe) is actually the distance you can drive on 1 kilogram of hydrogen, so when you see MPGe think miles per kilogram of hydrogen. Here's an example, one US gallon of gasoline contains 0.3715 kg of hydrogen. If we drive 371.5 miles and burn 8.1 gallons of gasoline we get 371.5 / 8.1 = 45.86 miles per gallon of gasoline, 371.5 / 8.1 / 0.3715 =123.46 miles per kilogram of hydrogen. Multiplying gallons of gasoline by 0.3715 removes the carbon from the gasoline, eg 8.1 gallons of gasoline * 0.3715 equals 3.009 kilograms of hydrogen.
There are MPGe conversion formulas to all sorts of alternative fuels. Gasoline to Hydrogen is one, Gasoline to Electric is another. The formula uses the 33.7kwh of energy equivalent in a gallon of gas.
@@Wrangler4XEFans If I divide the distance in miles by gallons the result is miles per gallon eg 371.5 ÷ 8.1 gallons equals 45.86 miles per gallon. If I divide the distance in miles by kilograms the result should be miles per kilogram ( not miles per gallon equivalent ) eg 371.5 ÷ 3.009 kilograms equals 123.46 miles per kilogram. Most people don't know that gasoline has a density of 2.85769 kilograms per US gallon but most people do know that a kilogram is about 2.2 pounds.
My 4xe was at 1% when driving down the Smoky Mountains . Then, when we got to the bottom of the Smokys, 4xe was at 6%. Was in Hybrid mode the whole time .
When I did Ophir Pass in 2021, I hit the peak at 1%. Did the whole back side of it at 1% and it stayed that way until we hit the bottom. It was really cool to see the vehicle work that way.
A hybrid is a vehicle that uses two or more distinct types of power. Not sure what you are implying by a true hybrid vs something else. The wrangler 4xe is a true hybrid that also has an external energy input. FYI.
Bad choice of words on my part. You are exactly right: it is always a hybrid. That’s a point I’ve tried to make in other videos because some people have referred to eSave as a “gas mode”. Thank you for picking up on that. What I was trying to say was that it goes in to a mode that more closely resembles how a non-plug-in hybrid operates.
It’s all good. I got mine about the same time as you. Fully loaded Rubicon. I have already switched out the bumpers, added front, back, rock, and brake lights. Made the mistake of unplugging the battery when I installed the winch and really sent this thing into chaos. Freaked me out. Really enjoying it though. Wish I got the hard top but oh well. Gotta buy one a new top now.
@@davidgrove5525 I haven’t done much. Grill insert, replaced the amber running lights with smoke ones and replaced the antennae. I want to do some lights. It will be a work in progress for a while. I did a bunch of lights and stuff to my 95 Wrangler. I found the building was half the fun. Once I got it done I was like “now what?” So I’m trying to pace myself. I’d like to see pictures of yours. Sounds awesome.
@@davidgrove5525 what all did it do when you unplugged the battery? And when you say that do you mean the large battery that's under the back seat, or the standard car battery that is found in the engine bay?
@@MotoringAdventures_KE7SAI when I took the leads off the normal 12v is what I meant. You have to take the fuse out which I believe is called the mdc or dcm or something. It’s is the master controller either way and if you detach the positive or negative lead from the 12v battery to install lights or whatever you can really mess things up in there and on the computer. I did read that in a blog as well. There is a way to restart stuff if you still do it as well. Sorry for her delayed response, I am out of the country at the movement.
1. You sound a lot like David Letterman. 2. We must live pretty close as I recognize 725 and Rt4..... Lol 2020 JLU owner. Just interested in the EV. Have a great day!
Too funny. Several people have said that I sound like Letterman. I watched him a lot when I was younger. Makes me wonder if he had an impression on me.
We have some polls in the Fans Group on Facebook. As well, someone created a 4XE Polls group on Facebook. We’ve found that percentage of people having issues is really low. That’s not to say that the issues that some people have had aren’t bad. It’s also frustrating that a lot of dealerships just aren’t readily equipped to handle the weird issues. All told, it seems like the percentage of Jeeps that have had issues is really low. But with over 50,000 of these on the roads, even a small percentage can seem like a lot.
@@Wrangler4XEFans thanks for the reply and that's a bit more relieving For a minute there all I was seeing was bad stuff about these 4xe In terms of reliability.
How long do the batteries last before you have to replace them? And is the maintenance cost of a PHEV more than a regular combustion engine Wrangler with the same specs? Great video, keep up the good work!
I thought I replied to this but I don’t see the reply. So apologies if this is a duplicate. The lifespan of the batteries is an unknown. Studies have speculated at 12-15 years. Guess we’ll have to see. I’m at 47,000 miles and I’m not seeing any decline in range. There really isn’t any maintenance to do on the hybrid system. At least, there are no suggested maintenance items in the manual. The manual just has the normal maintenance items related to the gas engine and the drivetrain.
@@Wrangler4XEFans Thanks man, I'm based out of Toronto, and the prices here are slightly higher compared to the States. Approximately how much did the vehicle cost you outta the dealership?
@@popularvideos1213 Well, the price I got doesn’t compare to now. I got in before the price increases and I got a pretty good deal. I got it for around $55,000.
I keep hearing 375 hp with 475 lbs of torque...is this all the time? Only in hybrid mode? If I wanted to pull something from state to state it sounds like in electric mode its like less than half and if in e-save it's a little more than half the potential pulling power it advertises. It sounds like the ecodiesel is the way to go for pulling for long trips? Your video was great at being another chapter of research for buying consideration...yet no one has really done a video on its ability to do long haul driving or even long distance driving performance for family vacations only having passengers and luggage and then in that one moment you need that awesomely rated power, will it be there?
It's all the time. The 4XE has two electric motor/generators. One on the front of the engine and one in the transmission. So it always maintains and approximate 15% state of charge in the battery. If you pulled all the time, the diesel probably makes more sense but if it's just an occasional thing, the 4XE would be fine.
Great video packed with good info, and I subscribed. Understand the MPGE is not something you will get. What kind of milage would you expect on say a 300 mile highway trip starting with a topped off battery?
You can get 49 MPGe if you get 21 miles of electric range before the engine starts. When it’s in electric mode is when MPGe applies. If you did a 300 mile trip with the battery charged, the range will run out in the first 20-24 miles. After that, it’s around 20 MPG. I’ve seen 24 MPG when I kept the speed down and when I was still running the stock Sahara wheels. But after the 2” lift and running Rubicon takeoffs, I’m down to 20-22 MPG.
Not sure if my question will get answered here, since it's been a year since the video was made. I am of a simple mind. So please forgive me. If I go 100 miles in hybrid mode, just for example. I will be in electric and gas for the first 20ish miles, then only using the ICE for the rest?
@@Wrangler4XEFans Ok. So after the 20-ish miles or so, I will only be using the 4 cylinder 2.0? Which would mean, only around 270 horsepower for a 5k lbs. Jeep? So that means the 375 horsepower is only available for that small 20-25 mile window. Which would put the 4XE to be a great short range vehicle, and good at trails, but not so good for a longer trip.
@@timotaio69 No, the 4XE is always a hybrid. When the electric range runs out, there is still around 15% total state of charge. The 4XE has two electric motor/generators. One is in the transmission and one is on the front of the engine. They can both be used to charge the battery when demand is low enough to allow them to do so. The one in the transmission provides propulsion and the one on the front of the engine provides torque to the front of the engine when demand is high. But any time the gas engine is running, the one on the front of the engine can maintain charge to the battery. So there’s never a time that full horsepower isn’t available.
@@Wrangler4XEFans Oh! That's awesome! Sorry for my lack of comprehension on this matter. I just wasn't getting this. Thank you for your help and guidance.
Basi g on what you said, meaning after the batter runs out at 1% , the vehicle will run a full gas operation , that is aprox 20 mpg. And that being said, defeats the purpose of being a PHEV vehicle,
Well, not to get semantic but it’s always a hybrid. The battery doesn’t completely run out, it just sustains like regular hybrids. I’ve normally seen around 24 MPG but that varies down to 21 MPG on long trips. I wouldn’t say it defeats the purpose of the PHEV for most people. Most people drive less than 30 miles a day. But for people that have long daily commutes without the ability to charge at work, the 4XE isn’t the best choice. It’s strength is in shorter daily commutes. I will say though that I’ve talked with several people that have traded in a JK for a JL and they are seeing better real world gas mileage on longer trips. Comment edit: When I say it “sustains”, it’s only at about 15% total state of charge. It doesn’t maintain a full battery. When the 4XE hit’s
@@lynoj777 I think I see what your are talking about. I was trying to verbalize the difference between HEVs and PHEVs. Some difference and some similarities.
Is there anyway the car can tell you how many miles you have left before the tank is empty. On a full tank I think that the gas range should read “3??”.
What no one talks about is the big elephant in the room.... what is the lifespan of that big expensive battery..? in my case for example if I move to another country for work and wanna take my 4xe I would lose the warranty as Jeep does not have international warranty.... also in case the battery comes to its end of life, would the vehicle keeps operating on gas only at least until one gets a new battery pack..?
I hear you. If it helps, one of the reasons it’s not a prominent part of the conversation is due to the lack of real-world examples of required battery replacements in Hybrids, PHEVs and EVs. There are a lot of comments made on social media about the idea but it’s largely speculation that isn’t rooted in any kind of reality. Battery replacements happen but the speculated lifespan of batteries is in the 12 to 15 years range. The truth is, we don’t know what batteries will cost by then but they will be cheaper in the future than they are today. Battery costs have dropped dramatically over the past 10 years so it’s likely they will continue to do so in the coming years. At some point the supply/demand model will kick in and the costs will level out. So my guess with the Wrangler 4XE, the cost of a battery replacement will be anywhere from $2500 to $5000 at the most. But my speculation is admittedly short-sighted as I have no clue what the prices will look like in a decade or more. Thank you for the conversation starter.
Jeep warranties the battery and electric system for it for 100,000 miles I believe. I trade mine back in after 3 yr. lease so I don't really care all that much.
@@ggolds5 my concerns are different, first I’m taking the jeep to another country due to work and automatically all warranty is void, second I’m planning to keep it for a long time, so the battery is still a concern at least for me..!
There is a third party company thats doing some amazing work on reconditioning the oldest Tesla battery systems and getting them back in optimal performance range. I can’t recall the company name but I’m sure you’ll find them if you hunt around. I imagine that type of reconditioning service will make a huge difference in longevity and become more available from multiple vendors over time. I know that I plan to stop in for a reconditioning evaluation after 10 years on my Tesla - a car I plan to keep as long as possible. If I get a 4xE right now I’d likely lease as I imagine full electrification will very quickly replace this version causing resale values to tank on the 4xE in the future making the cost of ownership quite pricey.
You can regenerate power into the battery while driving in e-save mode. In the hybrid menu set it to charge the battery. As long as you are not consuming too much power with the climate control, it will recharge the battery.
When did David Letterman start doing reviews?
Love this comment. Dave's the man.
Lol!
@@Wrangler4XEFans oh my gosh, Ican totally hear that!
THAT IS THE FIRST THING THAT CAME TO MIND😂😂😂 TAKE US TO A COMMERCIAL PAUL!
Great now from evermore I will think it’s David Letterman!
Just bought my 4XE a week ago and love it. Your information, both videos and in the forums has been the most informative of anything I've found. Thank you for all the research and time you've put into this.
I regret that I have but one like to give this comment.
This is a great video for new 4xe owners like myself. Really helped me understand the priorities of the hybrid system. Great channel!
I just bought my very first jeep (4xe) the other day. I absolutely love it. I have so many questions about this vehicle but I’ll keep it to one lol. Once the battery is depleted in hybrid mode can I continue to run it in hybrid or do I need to switch to e-save mode?
Great info. Thank you for clarifying. This system makes more sense to me. My Lexus hybrid battery rarely drops below 70-80% charge. It makes me think it is not utilizing the battery to its potential.
Fantastic explanation! As a current ev owner as well, it seems like for some folks, the learning curve is quite steep. Especially for dealerships who probably want nothing to do with this new platform.
I love my 2023 4XE. I keep the max regen on all the time. I really like it in heavy traffic. Also saves my breakpads
I live in an apartment and do not have a way to plug the Jeep into an electrical source. Would the 4xe still benefit me in hybrid mode? or would I be better off with a gas engine?
You’ll get slightly better gas milage in most situations but it’s not significantly better. Could you charge at work?
I explain to folks like this: Charging the battery while you drive would be like driving with the parking break partially on. Everyone who gets a hybrid, or EV for that matter, should take a quick 30 minute physics course on how energy works. Once the battery is depleted, your best option is to plug back up. It is nice re-capturing some of the kinetic energy of the vehicle with battery regen while slowing down though! Good video!
Yes! All of this!
It's OK if you have a long down hill but that's about it.
Agreed. Personally I do not think pure EV tech is currently viable in the US market, mostly because of our unique geography and driving habits. However, they do work in niche environments. Unfortunately, we seem to have a populace of which the majority have never taken a physics class and have no innate understanding of newtonian physics. So an equally important element to consider when understanding why EV's (and PHEV to a lesser extent) are not taking off in the states is understanding Americans. Toyota is pretty sharp, hybrids work well for the States. Maximizing the efficiency and efficacy of a vehicle like the Wrangler 4xe is beyond most Americans capacity, and without putting in the effort to learn and execute, owners are likely to be dissapointed. Videos like this are super helpful. I actually kind of feel bad for Jeep dealerships imagining all the upset people who are complaining about their 4xe's when the reality is it's user error. All of this without even talking about how its also important for users to understand FORM and how they need to perform certain tasks to help extend the life of their ICE.
I have a question: when the gas engine decides to kick on, I’m concerned the engine kicks on for the first time under load. I can’t imagine it’s good , particularly cold weather, for the engine to turn over, under load, without allowing any oil to warm up or flow through the engine. Wouldn’t this cause premature wear on the engine and components ?
That’s a really good question that I’ve wondered about too.
@@JakeG360 This makes sense and I hadn’t thought about it. The 4XE can start the gas engine and leave the ILE clutch between the engine and the P2 motor open. It can operate as a series hybrid with that clutch open which allows the P1 motor/generator to provide power. I have noticed it doing that when the engine first starts. Then it closes that clutch and goes in to parallel operation.
When head for the highway what the best way to use
Hybrid mode
Your videos are absolutely amazing! Thank you so much for taking the time to get this information out there!
This was far more informative than any details provided by the dealerships & sadly, JEEP itself.
I just brought home my first plug-in hybrid 2023 Jeep Wrangler Sahara 4xe.
Based on your video, it seems like for short-distance, local driving, it is best to solely rely on the battery, so you would drive in electric mode...makes sense.
What about for long-distance highway driving? My commute to work is roughly 35 miles of highway driving. Fortunately, we do have commercial level 2 charges, so I can charge at work & based on your information, it seems it is best to drive the car in hybrid mode. Is that accurate?
Also, what about the max re-gen button? From your video, I have learned that you are only charging when you are decelerating. Based on this, does it only make sense to throw this button on when you are going down hill with your foot off the gas pedal? Are there any other times that you would recommend throwing on the max regen? Should the car be in e-save mode to maximize charging or can it be in hybrid mode?
Your help is greatly appreciated!
For short commutes, electric mode is likely to be your best best bet. It raises the engine start threshold and avoids short engine runs.
For a 35 mile commute, hybrid is likely your best bet. There are a lot of people that will either use eSave and/or shift the vehicle in to manual mode. It would be hard to say for certain that you would get more benefit out of trying to out-think the system. It’s worth some experimenting, don’t get me wrong. But from a net-energy perspective, it would be difficult to say that using different modes will result in better overall efficiency. There are many that claim they can make it do better but they are usually going by the MPG estimator in the dash which I have found to be inaccurate when I pair that up against checking my gas mileage at the pump.
I pretty well leave my max regen on for my daily driving but usually turn it off on the highway. Turning max regen on not only provides the extra deceleration from the P2 motor/generator but also remaps the top portion of the accelerator pedal. You can vary the amount of regen with that top remapped portion. The only reason I turn it off on the highway is that it’s really not doing much and when I do want to let off the accelerator, I usually don’t want it slowing down as much as it does. The 4XE has a blended braking system so when you put your foot on the brake, you aren’t necessarily applying the friction brakes. If you lightly put your foot on the brake, the deceleration you feel is coming from the P2 motor/generator in the transmission. So any time you need an extra bit of deceleration, you still grab a little energy.
The thing about eSave is it is the least efficient mode. If you are charging with eSave, you are asking the gas engine to work harder which will result in using more gas. It’s a closed loop and there is no free lunch.
By FAR the most informative video I've seen on this topic. You just got another subscriber.
Well that just made my day. Thank you kindly.
In the process of buying a used '21 4XE Sahara. Cool channel; I dropped a subscription!
Soooooo appreciated.
Batteries are 100 % going to a wedding 70 mile away in what mode should I use
Hybrid mode
Hybrid Mode
My Jeep is very loud, especially going through a drive through window at a food place or bank. How do I quiet it down. Sounds like fans.
The first thing you can do at a drive through is reach over and hit your AC button to off. That will quiet a lot of things down. You can also build a Pedestrian Warning System bypass switch and that will quiet that part down. Video: th-cam.com/video/e2_3K8dOXso/w-d-xo.html
MAN, now im considering one of these! So many cool vehicles out.
We got our jeep 4xe this past weekend. This hybrid stuff is all new to me. I appreciate your video and explanations. I guess my question would be, what is the best mode to drive this vehicle on a daily basics.
If you can cover your daily drive in electric, use it. You can leave it in hybrid mode but it’s good to be aware if causing a lot of short engine runs. A lot of short engine runs can lead to oil dilution. That’s an issue with direct injection engines. If you search some videos here on YT about oil dilution on direct injection engines, it helps to understand the issue. But a lot of people can leave it in hybrid mode and not cause a lot of short engine runs. It depends on how heavy your foot is.
I have an GC4xe should I always be driving in hybrid mode. I thought the e save, saved battery usage for later. I’m confused.
Having a hard time understanding. So when is the best time to use max regen button?
Also, from what I got, basically always keep vehicle on hybrid/electric for fuel efficiency? Is that right?
Thanks in advance.
My personal approach to Max Regen is if I'm going to be in traffic that is at or under 40-45MPH. It only kicks in when you lift your foot from the accelerator. Well, I should add, it does remap the top inch or so of the accelerator pedal so you can vary the amount of regen. It allows for almost one pedal driving. The 4XE has a blended braking system that uses the electric motor to decelerate the vehicle when you apply pressure to the brake pedal. So it would be hard to argue that you will get more or less return energy with max regen on or off. Some people report that they get more range with it on. I haven't been able to prove that in my testing.
So you can technically leave it in hybrid mode all the time. There are some things to consider. The vehicle will use the electric only range until the battery is depleted even in hybrid mode. But in electric mode, the system raises the point at which the gas engine will kick in to provide additional power. If you area in hybrid mode, you may be more likely to have the engine kick on in stop and go traffic. That can be an issue during the winter due to Fuel Oil Refresh Mode. A lot of short engine runs can cause oil dilution. The system can't detect oil dilution but there is software running that calculates when you might have oil dilution and go in to FORM to try to burn off some of that fuel in the oil. Running hybrid mode might actually result in a short engine runs depending on how heavy your foot is. But a lot of people leave it in hybrid mode and have no issues. But I have also talked with a lot of people that sort of get stuck in FORM in the winter and a lot of them have indicated that they use hybrid mode.
Bottom line, if you want to maximize your electric usage, you can use electric mode but hybrid mode works too. Now on long trips, after battery depletion, I use hybrid mode all of the time. The eSave mode will use more gas so hybrid mode is the most efficient.
@@Wrangler4XEFans
Wasn’t expecting such a thorough response! Definitely earned a sub! Thanks for the info, going to keep that in mind especially since it’s cold in TN atm. Also requested the FB Group🤙🏽
Great video! I'm so glad somebody understands this. What MPG would you get if you never plug in? For example, somebody who daily drives 15 miles and never needs gas decides to do a coast-to-coast adventure road trip. They drive 500 miles per day filling as needed with gas and camping nightly in the boonies. Once they get home, they return to their 15 mile commute. During their 8,000 mile road trip, what would their expected MPG be?
I’m not sure I have a solid answer on that yet. In some 120 and 130 miles tests, I saw around 24MPG. From talking to some friends who have Wranglers with the 2.0, they said their gas milage got better over the first few thousand miles as the engine broke in. So right now I’d say around 24MPG but I need a good trip to find out. Plus, I probably only have about a thousand miles with the gas engine running at this point so I don’t know what it will be like down the road.
@Saltponds239 Overlanders care.
@Saltponds239 I care. My current overland setup is a 2006 Jeep Liberty Sport Diesel 4x4 I bought new. Apart from a set of stock sized Firestone Destination AT2's and a GDE tune it is bone stock. I get 29 mpg highway and 26 MPG city. With the stock fuel tank my range is over 500 miles. For very long trips, such as the Pan-American highway, I put a lockable aero box on lockable Thule crossbars on the roof. I carry no fridge and no external mounted winch. For sleeping, we carry a two man tent. For shorter US only trips we carry two bicycles on a trailer hitch rack instead of the roof box. I always stay on roads or trails and always practice Leave No Trace, as should everyone.
I envision a 4XE equipped with a custom hard top with about 1kw of built in solar panels, which if parked in the sun might give about 20 miles range per week, which is more than I daily drive. I also envision future models with more battery and only a small, efficient gasoline powered generator in a parallel hybrid configuration. The 4XE is a new, different, and interesting step in that direction. Car nerds like us care about such things. When future models have a gasoline only MPG over 30 and a gasoline only range over 500 I might buy one.
It wouldn’t make any sense to do that. The extra weight of the battery cancels out most of the benefit of the hybrid and you might only get 2 mpg better that’s the regular turbo 4. Plugging in make a huge difference. In my driving I’m between 40-50 mpg.
@@cman3680 Can't complain about that!
I just got a 4xe in May and I love it
What did you get? Rubicon, Shara…?
Got the Shara.
@@jerryyoung6889 Let’s face it, Sahara owners are cooler.
What if there is heavy heavy stop and go traffic situation for a long period of time and the 4xe is on its reserve 15% battery, is it possible then to completely deplete the battery to the point where it no longer has enough power to move the vehicle? If so, would the 4xe be able to easily charge up some reserve?
There are two motor/generators. If the engine is running, the one on the front of the engine is constantly turning. So there’s always a constant energy source to maintain that ~15%.
So are you saying you do not think you should ever use e-save mode and simply only use electric or hybrid mode?
You can use it, it just has its place. If you want to save the battery until later, that’s where it really comes in to play.
Say if you are headed from a camp site to the trail and the trailhead is 10 miles away. If you want to save the battery for the trail, then you could use eSave on the way there.
For daily use, it just uses more gas than it would if you just leave it in hybrid mode.
@@Wrangler4XEFans copy that...thank you for the explanation. I am debating whether I want to purchase a 4xe so trying to learn as much as I can. I have a Mustang Mach E on order but trying to decide if I want to go a different route before it is produced.
@@priddle3392 The MachE is pretty sweet.
I have 23 mile commute to work one way, so It would be more cost effective to drive on electric there and gas on the way back? Then to drive on hybrid there and back?
Great job and explanation by the way. I just bought a 4xe and is not recharging the battery at all. I charge the battery up to 100% on a level 2 charger and within an hour driving just a few miles my charge goes below >1%. What’s your opinion?
@@MikolsonAvant That’s what it’s supposed to do. PHEVs operate that way. They have a short electric only range then operate as a hybrid. It recharges the bottom 15% of the battery but we can’t see that on any gauge. When the screen says
Awesome thank you. Got it.
hello group, We are planning buying this great 4xe but we need to tow a 3000 pounds RV trailer. Spec shows a capacity of 3500. Are we good to go and how the jeep will react?
It will tow 3,000 pounds fine. Shouldn't have any issues at all.
LOve my RUbi 4xe! I end up driving 90% of the time in Electric, occassionally the gas engine kicks on while accelerating up this steep freeway onramp, but most of my driving is with the electric motor. I do LOVE the electric engine while off roading though. I use the gasoline engine most time until I get to a steep area where torque matters, and the car is KING!
Have you ever experienced FORM?
I live in the city, hard to find chargers can I run only off gas. Will it damage the vehicle ? Can it run off only gas ?
You can. It’s still a hybrid. Do you at least have access to a regular 120 volt outlet?
I live in the apartment building only thing we have is tesla chargers around here.
@@josephsales8414 Tesla SuperChargers or Destination Chargers?
@@Wrangler4XEFans j-1772 chargers
@@josephsales8414 The 4XE takes a J-1772.
I am picking up my Wrangler rubicon 4xe x Wednesday. I live in a coop with no ability to charge the jeep. What is the best drive mode I should use. I live in the city so I will be in traffic in the morning and at night no traffic.
Your best bet is hybrid mode. Using eSave to charge the battery uses more gas. From a net energy perspective, even if you spin off of the electric miles gained from using eSave, you still come out worse than using hybrid mode. Now, you will have people tell you that you can use esave in some combination with hybrid mode and get good gas milage. That's because they are using the dash board MPG calculator and not calculating at the pump when they fill up. The on board calculator can be off pretty bad when using esave which leads some people to believe it's doing better than what it is.
Do you have any place near your work where you can charge?
@@Wrangler4XEFans no I work in the Bronx and there is no charging spot. Only on weekends I could charge at my parents place.
@@tomtom-jt4ef I would imagine you don’t even have access to a 120 volt outlet, right? There are some parts of the US that are so problematic to electrify. I still can’t believe New York set a date of 2035 for all new cars to be electric. I don’t see how New York City will be able to adapt that quickly. That’s a lot to accomplish in 12 short years.
@@Wrangler4XEFans my coop is not allowing me to install in my garage I have and at work we have a generator that is used to run our equipment. Is it bad to use a generator to charge the jeep?
@@Wrangler4XEFans unfortunately I wanted a wrangler and the regular v6 had no promotion and I didn’t want to spend over 790 month on car payments. And all the sales said that it’s not problem you don’t have to charge the jeep you can run it with gas I guess I’m the fool they got me
I am having trouble wrapping my head around how this works even though you did an excellent job in explaining it.. does the primary person drive this in hybrid mode ?
I understand when you're around town you want to use the electric mode or at most often. reading on the stickers at the dealership it says you're getting 45 to the gallon. how is that when you're going back and forth ?
my next question is my understanding there's not many public charging stations is that correct ?
thanks in advance for the information anyone
In my case, I live 8 miles from my office. So I put it in electric mode for my daily commute. Since I can operate it within the electric range, I can go most days without running the gas engine. You can leave it in hybrid mode and it will primarily default to electric while the battery has a charge. The down side to hybrid mode for daily use is that it is likely to cause the engine to start when you pull away from stop lights. The engine can still start in electric mode if demand is high enough but you have to really get on it before it will start. The demand threshold is higher in electric mode that in hybrid mode.
One down side to allowing the gas engine to start repeatedly when pulling away from stop lights is that it can cause a lot of short engine runs. This can be an issue with direct injection engines as it can cause oil dilution. This problem is exacerbated when it's cold out. The 4XE has software that predicts (based on use) if oil dilution is occurring. The vehicle can trigger a Fuel Oil Refresh Mode (we call FORM) which causes the engine to automatically run to try to burn off the oil dilution issue. A lot of people ran in to issues with Jeeps getting stuck in FORM without the ability to get it out of it without an oil change last winter.
So if you look closely at that sticker, it doesn't actually say 49MPG, it says 49MPGe. MPGe is a confusing concept. It's an efficiency rating created to give the consumer something close to an apples to apples comparison between traditional gas vehicles and alternative fuel vehicles. It only applies to electrified propulsion and is not a combined gas mileage when in hybrid mode. As an example, a Tesla Model Y may be rated at 131 MPGe. A model Y has no gas engine at all. So the Wrangler 4XE has a rating of 21MPG when when operating as a hybrid and a rating of 49MPGe when operating in electric only.
As to the public chargers, that varies greatly by market. You can download an app called PlugShare to see the chargers in your area.
hey, ive never owned a jeep. Just wondering how easy or hard is it to steal the jeep 4xe catalytic converter? with the rise in cat theft you have to consider it when planning to buy a new vehicle. hope a video of this topic is coming out specific to the jeep 4xe
At least on the JK - it's a 4 stage unit on a y-pipe, so...........very difficult to steal
buy insurance
Hey boss,so is it fine if I plug in my 4xe 5 days a week?We have a charging station at my job,so I run it on electric everyday during my work week...
Totally! It’s what it’s made to do.
If you just drive in hybrid what is the MPG that can be expected and how long will it last? Thanks in advance
I’ve seen as low as 20MPG and as high as 24MPG on long trips after battery depletion.
Hey brother its my 2nd day owning the 4xe so hybrid mode is a no go i should alternate ? I mean im only going to use it on short commutes on my days off but later down the line i want to take it off roading
The issue that we’ve seen with people who leave it in hybrid mode is the tendency for the vehicle to create a lot of short engine runs. Those short engine runs can lead to oil dilution. The system has software running to predict oil dilution and can push the vehicle in to Fuel Oil Refresh Mode. The only way to clear FORM is to take it on a long drive to get the temperature up OR get an oil change. There have been issues where even the long drive won’t clear it and the only solution is an oil change. So the best way to avoid those short engine runs is to use electric mode when your daily travel can be covered by the electric range.
Now, there is a 90 day timer on the gas tank to be aware of. If you don’t fill it up in 90 days, it will also trigger FORM until you burn off some gas then fill it up again.
There is also a timer on the engine and it needs to run periodically. That timer will also trigger FORM.
But the gas tank timer and the engine lubrication timer are both easy to resolve where the oil dilution version of FORM can be a little problematic. So given my choice, I’ll risk hitting the timers before I risk hitting the oil dilution version of FORM.
Ok another question yesterday i charged it to about 50% just so on the drive home it can go back to 3 percent should i atart charging it more often or is there an issue with the vehicle
@@ferminpirul7390 What was the distance?
Yo man it was a 14 mile drive i wanted to see how the charging worked i went after the gym long story short i spent about 2hrs charging it, it hit 50% but the drive home it went down to 2% i was a little frustrated 😠 because the first day i took it to ontario and i got about 50+ miles on hybrid got it at 15 miles and put a good 90 miles i was impressed i have more then half a tank at the moment i just wanted to know if i should be concerned or what the best setting for it should be.
@@ferminpirul7390 If you got 50 miles, there was some engine running time involved. In hybrid mode, the engine will come on and off as demand increases and decreases.
03/08/22 I placed an order for my Rubicon 4Xe thanks for this video looking forward to taking my new Jeep off the trails, with gasoline prices spiking and most likely getting higher :( I'm glad I'm moving into the hybrid world.
No doubt. I’ve only used the gas engine once in the past two weeks. Feels like I have liquid gold in my gas tank.
Not sure if 4xe Rubicon is optimized for off the grid travel. The range of gas power is limiting and a lot of dead weight to carry around when your battery runs out. If you just want to use it as a local transport then it might make sense.
Is there an accurate measure of mpg/hybrid operations? What is the best metric to ascertain relative efficiency? How does this compare with VW, Ford and Kia hybrids?
MPGE is likely the most reliable metric to compare PHEVs to each other. Now comparing a regular hybrid to the 4XE, the best way is to probably compare straight MPGs. PHEVs have both MPGE and MPG listed on their stickers. MPGE applies to the vehicle when under electric-only propulsion. The MPG rating is after the battery is depleted and it operates more like a standard hybrid.
Great new channel Chris! Well done!!! Here's hoping Wrangler send some sponsorship your way;)
Thanks for the explanation. I was wondering how my 4xe was still showing positive output at
There’s a lot to unpack there. Especially after the updates. I don’t have any data to back up this statement but it seems like there is a variable ramping based on what gear the transmission is in. I’ve tried to analyze it by feel and watching the gears. It’s just a theory I have with no way to see the data. But it’s a good thought for a video if I could figure out how to see some data.
Before I bought my Sahara 4xe I was driving a 2018 Chevy Bolt which was is a fully electric vehicle, the Bolt was equipped with the Regen feature and true one pedal driving was possible, the difference between the two vehicles was that with the Chevy Bolt I could actually gain an additional 10 miles of battery range and on occasion in heavy stop and go traffic on the freeway I could gain almost an additional 15 miles. With the Sahara 4xe no such thing ! I have yet to experience any battery regeneration with one pedal driving.
Great video. Ordering one on Monday. How is the fuel efficiency after the battery is depleted?
It’s been a little bit since I’ve done a good test but I was seeing 24MPG in a couple early tests. I have a road trip coming up. Hope to do some testing.
@@Wrangler4XEFans Look forward to your results if you get a chance to look at it. Thanks!
We picked ours up this week. We live in Vegas and it’s been very hot. The electric battery only lasts about 10 miles and after that we get about 16 MPG with the temperature over 100 degrees and the A/C on high. Not too good 😩
@@brianbaker4745 SAME!!! I live in vegas too and this is exactly what in getting.
Wow. Just wow. Very informative!
I originally thought the e-save mode worked by keeping the engine running at higher RPMs even at low speeds, allowing the car to move while simultaneously charging the battery. Higher engine RPMs typically mean greater efficiency, so even at low speeds, the engine could stay in its optimal efficiency range, storing excess energy in the battery. This would avoid the inefficiency of traditional internal combustion engines running at low speeds, thereby improving MPG. It seems I misunderstood how it actually works. But is this the logic of hybrid mode when batter is
@@zx56vb What you are describing is series hybrid operation. It would be cool if the 4XE had an option to do that. It does do a series mode when the engine first starts. There’s a clutch between the gas engine and the transmission that stays open for a timed start cycle. That allows the engine to circulate oil and warm up a little before loading it. But then is closes that clutch and goes in to parallel hybrid operation.
One big reason why it doesn’t have a mode to stay in series mode is that it would lose all the horsepower of the gas engine.
@wrangler4xefans. How long and up to what speed can i drive my 4xe on 4h auto?
4H auto can be used every day at any speed.
know about level 2 charging systems? Which is best? what do you use? should i get a mopar? already have correct electric but does all warranties stay in effect if you dont get mopar to install? please need help
As long as it's UL, that's what is needed for any warranty issues.
I have a couple ClipperCreek chargers that work great. A lot of people get the Mopar one. Grizzl-e, ChargePoint, JuiceBox are all good. Just don't get a Mustart. We've heard too many bad experiences with the 4XE on those.
So I am in the market for a 4xe and I've heard all sorts of different info on MPG after the battery is depleted. What kind of MPG are you seeing after you have used up all of your battery charge?
I’ve only done a couple 120 to 130 mile tests after battery depletion and was seeing around 24MPG. I’ve heard from other gas Jeep owners that their gas mileage gets better over the first few thousand miles. So I don’t know if it might get a little better or if that number is even reliable since it wasn’t far enough for a really good test.
@@Wrangler4XEFans That sounds more in line with what I was expecting. I've seen a couple of reports in the Forums of people saying they are only getting 270 miles with a full tank and full charge. I've got a 2018 3.6 JLU Rubicon and I can get over 400 miles on a tank. 350 miles would be acceptable, but under 300 miles before any modifications seem low.
@@wb3550 That seems pretty low from what I’m seeing but I haven’t taken a good road trip yet.
I wish I had a good road trip soon. I'm taking a real long one in June so I hope to do all sorts of experiments.
I bought my Sahara 4xe 10 days ago. The first tank of gas I was toying with the system and got roughly 350. This last tank of gas I got I plug it in at work for a full charge and at home for a 3/4 charge. I am right now 150 miles on the current tank and just reached a 1/4 tank used. I’m going to estimate almost 400 miles on a tank of gas. What I am seeing from a friend that has the same Jeep he has done several trips and doesn’t always charge getting 360 miles to a tank of gas.
What is the lifespan of those lithium Battires how much to replace ?
If recent studies area correct, modern, thermally managed batteries should be good for 12-15 years. With the way battery prices have been dropping over the past decade, it's really hard to say what the price for replacement will be by then. The battery pack in the 4XE would have been around $21,000 in 2010. The current pricing I'm finding on any websites is over $11,000. But I have a feeling that's not the correct price since the original price difference between a comparable 4XE and a standard Wrangler isn't near that much. Based on the current downward trend in battery prices, my guess would be that a replacement battery might be a couple thousand by the time it needs replaced, and that's including labor. But there is also a growing industry in battery repair. There are companies that will open a pack and replaced the bad cells instead of replacing the entire thing. The Wrangler 4XE will be a prime candidate for this kind of work since the battery is so accessible.
So to be clear, I'm still confused, you can't drive in gas only or switch between gas and/or electric? You drive with electric first then it switches to gas when less than 1%?
The clarification is that the 4XE is always a hybrid. Under normal circumstances, there isn’t a time when it operates just on gas alone. It’s always utilizing the hybrid system.
So yes, you can switch between electric and hybrid but switching to hybrid doesn’t negate the electric side.
Have you found a way to recline the backseats. And also make the front seats recline forward collapse more forward
I don’t think those back seats can do any kind of reclining at all. I haven’t found any way they could. And it seems like the front seats only go so far forward. If they can go flat, I haven’t figured it out.
I went and looked again. I don't see anything.
@Saltponds239 yes
What I want to know is would the 4XE be a good fit for someone that drives 78 miles one way to work?
It seems like about 60-70 miles is about as far as the benefit of PHEV system. With a full charge, you’ll get up around 30MPG up to about 60 miles or so. Now keep in mind, that 30 MPG figure is a little dirty because of the added electrical energy use that isn’t calculating in. But beyond that 60 or so miles, it drops down to 22-24 MPG. So long distances isn’t it’s strong suit.
@@Wrangler4XEFans Thanks
Actually, you can run the 4xe in a true hybrid mode at >1% by utilizing the manual shift mode.
Would love to know more about this.. just got a rubicon 4xe..
I just got the '23 Rubi 4xe automatic and wondering how do you get more than 22 miles on electric mode? only one week old and still figuring it out! does the manual vs automatic have different mileage?
It’s rated at 21 miles. Some people get 24-25. 22 in a Rubicon is good.
Just collected my Jeep Sahara eTorque , opted for it over the 4XE because of the poor electric only range and the relative high cost. I am Tesla owner as well, could not justify the additional $10,000 for the 4XE. Love the Jeep, (first time Jeep owner). Good Video on the inner workings of the electric motor on the 4XE.
I'm glad I bought early before all of the price increases. When I bought mine, it was only about $2500 more than a comparably equipped gas model. So with the tax break, that made it cheaper than a gas model.
Sahara 4Xe was $4000 more than Sahara gas…. Same options. Financing rates however are 3% higher to purchase hybrid compared to gas version.
Question, dopes your battery percentage go up if your on the highway on e-save? great info btw.
It has a hard time charging on the highway. Surface street are a little better.
@@Wrangler4XEFans What do you mean by surface street?
@@baro4178 Lower speed roads. Anything that’s not highway speeds. Not sure what speeds are best since I haven’t played with it a lot but I have found that it does better when not on the highway.
@@Wrangler4XEFans Perfect, Thank you
It has two e save modes. One that charges the battery (and drops your mileage a bit) and one that just save the battery. It will charge on the highway in e-save with the battery charge selection.
Mpg might be different, but mpg mean miles per gallon.
My friend has one and we went on a road trip and his electric battery never charged up by driving long period of time.
Was he doing something wrong?
On a long trip, you don’t want the battery to charge up. You want to let it stay at the
@@Wrangler4XEFans it’s too complicated for me. I use to own a rubicon but I do way too much highway driving and getting older. Lol.
But I do want one and unsure about seating them on top of the battery and no rear side airbags.
How about installing the altinator to the driveshat....to charge the lithium battery while driving.
It breaks the first law of thermodynamics. Alternators have internal spinning resistance. The more current they produce the more resistance they create. So it ends up being counterproductive. Perpetual motion has been proven impossible many times.
So what mode do you recommend? Newbie for a week now and want to get the best of my expensive vehicle . Had to order a new plugin because the one it came with is a joke 15/16 hours to charge we have never been charged 100% yet but besides that this is a awesome 2024 Willy’s
You will hear a lot of people say to leave it in hybrid mode and forget it. You can do that but there are some things to be aware of that I'll get to in a minute.
My daily drive is 16 miles round trip. So I use electric mode. My goal from the start has been to get the most of the electric mode that I can. Hybrid mode will use the electric first then use the gas engine when you've reached the end of the range. But in hybrid mode, the demand start threshold is way lower than in electric mode. Even in electric mode, if you put floor it you can still get the engine to start. But in hybrid mode, it can start the engine when pulling away from stop signs and stop lights. That can be an issue.
One of the things to be aware of with the 4XE is that it has a direct injection engine. One issue with DI engines is that short engine runs can cause oil dilution. If you area starting and stopping the gas engine 8-10 times on the way to work then doing the same thing on the way home, that can cause oil dilution. The 4XE has predictive software running to estimate when you are getting oil dilution. When that happens, the vehicle will enter Fuel Oil Refresh Mode or FORM. FORM is there to protect the engine but during the winter, you may sort of get stuck in it. While it's in FORM, it locks out electric operation and the engine will always run. You should be able to go for a good drive and it will clear FORM but sometimes it just gets stuck in that state and only an oil change will clear it. So this is one of the reasons I always use electric mode.
Now, if you go 90 days between fill ups, you can also go in to FORM until you use around 4-5 gallons of gas and top off your tank. But that kind of FORM is easier to clear. There's also a timer on the gas engine as it just needs to run from time to time. But again, if it goes in to FORM due to that, it's easy to clear. So I'll risk hitting that kind of FORM over the oil dilution kind any day. I've had my 4XE since 3/31/21 and have only had FORM once for about 24 hours. So I think I'm doing something right.
@@Wrangler4XEFans that’s great information and greatly appreciated thanks
Can I ask what kind of range you get in a tank of gas? I'm trying to decide if this would work for me, but I can't wrap my head around the MPGe confusion.
How many gallons does the gasoline hold?
It’s smaller than a regular Wrangler. 17.2 gallons.
Where is the CD player in the Jeep????
There isn’t one. Sort of a bummer but then again, the CD is sort of on its way out with most new vehicles.
If you battery is at 1 present and you can not charge battery and you driving on gas will you have trouble on a trip
No. At that point, it operates like any regular hybrid.
After watching this video my mind is made up, I'm getting a 4Xe Hybrid Wrangler Rubicon.
That’s awesome.
You won’t regret it. Electric commute during with these gas prices is a savior.
I live in Connecticut. Our Kilowatt costs here are 2nd highest in the nation. We pay around 24-kwh. IE 24 cents per KW hour. Then, if I have a level 2 charger connected in the garage... cost of an electrician to do it and cost to charge, it might actually defeat the savings on gas mileage with the high cost of charging it. However, saving $7500 on the lease price to lease it is a huge cost savings over a non hybrid version. That alone might make this all worth buying for me. I'm pretty much planning on placing my order anyway this week. Of course another concern is , will this Jeep be reliable. First year technology does worry me.
Most seem to be fairly reliable. Some are having battery chiller failures. Mine went at 1800 miles. I leased mine so long term reliability wasn’t a huge concern for me and the warranty is decent. You always take a chance with new tech though.
Especially with any Fiat/Chrysler product. Probably better to wait 3-5 years to see how these have held up.
Where do you find a recall that you and I were talking about
Big thanks from Québec Canada 🇨🇦
Ok, so basically it is always hybrid. And the three buttons (hybrid, elec, esave) only change which power source is prioritised/biased, how hard the jeep will try to recharge the battery and how easily the gas engine will kick in? Right?
So it might just be me, but I would find it more logical to have the 3 buttons layed out differently to reflect the bias. For example: elec, hybrid, gas. The more left you go in the buttons, the ‘greener’ your journey gets.
Also, the max regen button should not be in the center console. It should be with the others on the left side of the steering wheel too.
Another remark: I find the negative Kw used to indicate the charge of the battery confusing. In my mind, a negative ‘draws’ from the battery and a positive number adds. Same for the ‘speedometer’ showing the charge. I’d like that to be flipped around too with the needle going up for charge and down for draw.
But apparently Jeep does not agree with me ;)
I got my testdrive booked for Monday. Curious to see how it does in the mountains here when going 30mins uphil uphil at 40mph. And how driveable it is in max regen mode back down.
Keep in mind that driving is primarily an energy consumption proposition (wind resistance) That's why the sign convention is assigned to the discharge side of things. That's why charging is a negative value.
Thanks for the Correct information. Im looking at a 2022 Jeep GC 4XE and the sales people are just clueless. They are programmed at training to say anything, sell car!
It will be interesting to see what kind of misinformation comes out with the GC 4XE.
Great videos. In you opinion , during the week or longer road trips and no available charge points can 4xe start and drive only in gas mode?
It doesn’t have a gas mode. It is always a hybrid. Even if you don’t plug it in, it will still operate the gas engine and the bottom end of the battery together in hybrid mode. The vehicle will utilize regen and other opportunities to charge the battery to a minimal state so it has full power when needed.
@@Wrangler4XEFans Actually. E save mode, the third button, allows for gas only.
@@raide1448 There simply is no “gas only” mode. That idea has been miscommunicated a lot. I was able to confirm this with the lead engineer on the 4XE project. The Wrangler 4XE is always a hybrid no matter what mode it‘s in. The modes simply change the bias of the hybrid system. Granted, it greatly favors the gas engine in eSave mode but it’s still utilizes the electric motors when demand is high. You can watch the power flow on the hybrid screen and see that it still uses the battery, it just doesn’t use it as much as hybrid mode. It also works harder at holding the battery at the level if it is in hold mode or works to charge in charge mode in the sub-menu.
@@Wrangler4XEFans Thanks man ,Yes I need to stop using, gas mode, terminology.
@@Wrangler4XEFans Copy that ty. Waiting for my 4xe to get off the train and in Dave Smith's showroom.
why is the wrangler electric mode max miles as low as 21 miles and not in the range of 50 miles?
People need to think of max regen like tow/haul mode or an engine break. The regen starts automatically when you press the breaks, max regen just starts applying it when you let off the accelerator so you don't really coast it starts regen right away.
I just bought a 2022 4xe and I have so much electrical issues I wish I can show you my dash board
Have you pushed in all of your fuses?
Have you ever been able to get your battery percentage up using the max regen? I just got a 4xe. I've been trying to brake as little as possible and instead use the max regen button as my brake. I leave it off most of the time so I can coast as much as possible optimizing whatever thrust I've already gotten out of the battery (sometimes even putting it in neutral 😄). I thought I'd maybe go up at least 1% on occasion, but never. Only down😒. And quickly
The 4XE has a blended braking system. So when you put your foot on the brake, you are creating the same regen and max regen creates. During normal braking, the friction brakes only grave for the last few feet to bring the vehicle to a full stop.
The theory of coasting vs. using regen (when used properly) hasn’t been proven to be better overall. If you are coming to a stop, might as well grab all the energy you can. To that point, when you coast, you aren’t regening anything. So it’s a lost opportunity…especially if you put it in neutral.
Max regen will not charge up the vehicle. You won’t gain percentage because it only applies during deceleration. You pretty well burn off that gained energy when you pull away from a stop.
The biggest benefit of max regen is near one pedal driving in city traffic. It’s almost pointless on the highway. The other benefit is that it remaps the top one inch of the accelerator so you can vary the amount of regen. That way, you can vary it based on conditions which plays back in to the coast theory. If you utilize the variable amount of regen with the remap, you can maximize your energy return where coasting gives nothing back.
@@Wrangler4XEFans Thanks. So braking powers the battery to the same degree as max regen! I found that pressing the regen button instead of breaking to be quite a pain compared to just using the brake pedal, but I wanted to maximize by battery. Good to know.
@@JordanShokrian If you leave max regen on, you can vary it by feathering the accelerator. So you don’t have to turn it off.
But yes, the brake pedal is doing almost the same thing during normal braking. It would be hard to make the case that max regen captures more energy than good braking due to the blended braking system. Max regen just sort of allows for near one pedal driving around town.
@@Wrangler4XEFans Thanks for the tip. I put the electric meter window on the screen (like you have in the video) and kinda compared max regen to braking, and they do in fact seem to be about the same. So I'm leaving regen off and just using the brakes like I normally drive. I figure the more it's on the more I have to use the accelerator which by my logic kinda evens things out anyhow.
Will the gas engine charge the battery to its fullest?
It will only charge to 95%.
What is your fuel mpg on just gas engine
On a long trip without charging, I have seen around 24MPG on the stock wheels. It dropped down to around 22MPG on the Rubicon takeoff wheels.
@@Wrangler4XEFans thats great mpg! Thanks for your time your friend from Texas
I get 20MPG after the battery dies. If I use e-save to charge it while driving with max regen, I get 18.5MPG. It's honestly only suitable for short drives. I live 4 mins from work and don't burn a drop of gas all week if I'm only going to work and back. Anything else and the battery dies super fast
So in summary, what is the best driving mode..hybrid and let the Jeep computer calculate when it uses battery or gas? I can drive to work and back home on all electric (20 miles roundtrip) and wondered if I should drive in electric vs hyrbrid.
It makes some great decisions in Hybrid mode without a doubt. I use electric because it's less likely to start the gas engine if I get on it a little bit. My goal is more about electric range than performance. But I could totally do hybrid mode and it would operate in electric mode as much as it felt it could. The difference comes down to how heavy your right foot is.
Now, if I'm driving somewhere that I know I'll go beyond the electric range, I leave it in hybrid mode and let it make its own decisions about what it wants to do since the engine is going to run at some point anyway.
I was under the impression that there *is* either a generator(DC) connected to the axle(s) with a firmware controlled current limiter or the motors themselves can become generators. Under normal operation, the current is limited to zero. Under regen the limit is x number of amps and with max regen the limit is 2x. No?
There are two motor/generators. P1 is on the front of the engine and P2 is in the transmission. They are both able to switch between motor and generator quickly. P1 to the front of the engine, P2 to the transmission. The P2 motor is a 3 phase AC motor. It can very quickly go from pushing the Jeep forward to providing deceleration by changing the phases. There is no generator at the axels.
Question. I understand turbos need time to cool off once the engine is turned off. I've heard turbo engines with stop start technology have had turbo failure because they're constantly being turned on and off while they're still hot.
The 4xe has a turbo engine which assits the electric portion of the drive train. It also will be turning on and off when needed. Do you know what jeep has done to remedy this? Or is this old news that's already been taken care of? I really want to buy the 4xe and I have faith the battery will be solid. It's the turbos that I'm concerned about. What are your thoughts?
What a great question. I have no idea. I will say that the 4XE normally goes in to all electric when I pull in my driveway. It also has a cool down cycle when shut off. But I honestly don't know about this from a turbo perspective.
What is the actual intrinsic mpg AFTER you use the full electric. So say I leave my house with 1% charge what’s my mpg gonna be for a 100 mile trip (just an example). I’ve been trying to get a straight answer on this with no luck.
Most of us with Saharas are seeing around 24MPG and Rubicons around 22MPG.
3:18 they should use a gear box to a supplemental alternator attached to a wheel same concept as a pulley system to move heavy weight
@@SlaytncUnfortunately , that doesn’t work. That falls in to what is called perpetual motion which violates the 1st and 2nd laws of thermodynamics. Alternators and generators have internal spinning resistance. The internal spinning resistance adds a load to the vehicle which would consume more power. Any power produced gets used in the production.
I absolutely love my jeep wrangler 4Xe Sahara.
Miles per gallon equivalent (MPGe) is actually the distance you can drive on 1 kilogram of hydrogen, so when you see MPGe think miles per kilogram of hydrogen. Here's an example, one US gallon of gasoline contains 0.3715 kg of hydrogen. If we drive 371.5 miles and burn 8.1 gallons of gasoline we get 371.5 / 8.1 = 45.86 miles per gallon of gasoline, 371.5 / 8.1 / 0.3715 =123.46 miles per kilogram of hydrogen. Multiplying gallons of gasoline by 0.3715 removes the carbon from the gasoline, eg 8.1 gallons of gasoline * 0.3715 equals 3.009 kilograms of hydrogen.
There are MPGe conversion formulas to all sorts of alternative fuels. Gasoline to Hydrogen is one, Gasoline to Electric is another. The formula uses the 33.7kwh of energy equivalent in a gallon of gas.
@@Wrangler4XEFans If I divide the distance in miles by gallons the result is miles per gallon eg 371.5 ÷ 8.1 gallons equals 45.86 miles per gallon. If I divide the distance in miles by kilograms the result should be miles per kilogram ( not miles per gallon equivalent ) eg 371.5 ÷ 3.009 kilograms equals 123.46 miles per kilogram. Most people don't know that gasoline has a density of 2.85769 kilograms per US gallon but most people do know that a kilogram is about 2.2 pounds.
Great explanation. Thanks.
My 4xe was at 1% when driving down the Smoky Mountains . Then, when we got to the bottom of the Smokys, 4xe was at 6%. Was in Hybrid mode the whole time .
When I did Ophir Pass in 2021, I hit the peak at 1%. Did the whole back side of it at 1% and it stayed that way until we hit the bottom. It was really cool to see the vehicle work that way.
@Wrangler4XEFans was pretty cool going downhill, and the engine never ran
A hybrid is a vehicle that uses two or more distinct types of power. Not sure what you are implying by a true hybrid vs something else. The wrangler 4xe is a true hybrid that also has an external energy input. FYI.
Bad choice of words on my part. You are exactly right: it is always a hybrid. That’s a point I’ve tried to make in other videos because some people have referred to eSave as a “gas mode”. Thank you for picking up on that. What I was trying to say was that it goes in to a mode that more closely resembles how a non-plug-in hybrid operates.
It’s all good. I got mine about the same time as you. Fully loaded Rubicon. I have already switched out the bumpers, added front, back, rock, and brake lights. Made the mistake of unplugging the battery when I installed the winch and really sent this thing into chaos. Freaked me out. Really enjoying it though. Wish I got the hard top but oh well. Gotta buy one a new top now.
@@davidgrove5525 I haven’t done much. Grill insert, replaced the amber running lights with smoke ones and replaced the antennae. I want to do some lights. It will be a work in progress for a while. I did a bunch of lights and stuff to my 95 Wrangler. I found the building was half the fun. Once I got it done I was like “now what?” So I’m trying to pace myself. I’d like to see pictures of yours. Sounds awesome.
@@davidgrove5525 what all did it do when you unplugged the battery? And when you say that do you mean the large battery that's under the back seat, or the standard car battery that is found in the engine bay?
@@MotoringAdventures_KE7SAI when I took the leads off the normal 12v is what I meant. You have to take the fuse out which I believe is called the mdc or dcm or something. It’s is the master controller either way and if you detach the positive or negative lead from the 12v battery to install lights or whatever you can really mess things up in there and on the computer. I did read that in a blog as well. There is a way to restart stuff if you still do it as well. Sorry for her delayed response, I am out of the country at the movement.
Important to also know when rege. Engages ....your brake lights also come on.
Max Regen and the brake light
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Max Regen Brake Light Weirdness
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Brake Light and Reverse Light Indicator Project
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1. You sound a lot like David Letterman.
2. We must live pretty close as I recognize 725 and Rt4..... Lol
2020 JLU owner. Just interested in the EV.
Have a great day!
Too funny. Several people have said that I sound like Letterman. I watched him a lot when I was younger. Makes me wonder if he had an impression on me.
@@Wrangler4XEFans. Me as well. Grew up on Letterman and Leno in my 20s.
Would be awesome if you made a video on reliability of these 4XE
We have some polls in the Fans Group on Facebook. As well, someone created a 4XE Polls group on Facebook. We’ve found that percentage of people having issues is really low. That’s not to say that the issues that some people have had aren’t bad. It’s also frustrating that a lot of dealerships just aren’t readily equipped to handle the weird issues. All told, it seems like the percentage of Jeeps that have had issues is really low. But with over 50,000 of these on the roads, even a small percentage can seem like a lot.
@@Wrangler4XEFans thanks for the reply and that's a bit more relieving For a minute there all I was seeing was bad stuff about these 4xe In terms of reliability.
@@terryhammer9493 There have been a fair share, don't get me wrong. But there are still a LOT more than are having no issues.
How long do the batteries last before you have to replace them? And is the maintenance cost of a PHEV more than a regular combustion engine Wrangler with the same specs? Great video, keep up the good work!
I thought I replied to this but I don’t see the reply. So apologies if this is a duplicate.
The lifespan of the batteries is an unknown. Studies have speculated at 12-15 years. Guess we’ll have to see. I’m at 47,000 miles and I’m not seeing any decline in range.
There really isn’t any maintenance to do on the hybrid system. At least, there are no suggested maintenance items in the manual. The manual just has the normal maintenance items related to the gas engine and the drivetrain.
@@Wrangler4XEFans Thanks man, I'm based out of Toronto, and the prices here are slightly higher compared to the States. Approximately how much did the vehicle cost you outta the dealership?
@@popularvideos1213 Well, the price I got doesn’t compare to now. I got in before the price increases and I got a pretty good deal. I got it for around $55,000.
I keep hearing 375 hp with 475 lbs of torque...is this all the time? Only in hybrid mode? If I wanted to pull something from state to state it sounds like in electric mode its like less than half and if in e-save it's a little more than half the potential pulling power it advertises. It sounds like the ecodiesel is the way to go for pulling for long trips? Your video was great at being another chapter of research for buying consideration...yet no one has really done a video on its ability to do long haul driving or even long distance driving performance for family vacations only having passengers and luggage and then in that one moment you need that awesomely rated power, will it be there?
It's all the time. The 4XE has two electric motor/generators. One on the front of the engine and one in the transmission. So it always maintains and approximate 15% state of charge in the battery. If you pulled all the time, the diesel probably makes more sense but if it's just an occasional thing, the 4XE would be fine.
Great video packed with good info, and I subscribed. Understand the MPGE is not something you will get. What kind of milage would you expect on say a 300 mile highway trip starting with a topped off battery?
You can get 49 MPGe if you get 21 miles of electric range before the engine starts. When it’s in electric mode is when MPGe applies.
If you did a 300 mile trip with the battery charged, the range will run out in the first 20-24 miles. After that, it’s around 20 MPG. I’ve seen 24 MPG when I kept the speed down and when I was still running the stock Sahara wheels. But after the 2” lift and running Rubicon takeoffs, I’m down to 20-22 MPG.
Not sure if my question will get answered here, since it's been a year since the video was made. I am of a simple mind. So please forgive me. If I go 100 miles in hybrid mode, just for example. I will be in electric and gas for the first 20ish miles, then only using the ICE for the rest?
Yes but it is still a hybrid during that. There’s never a time that it’s not a hybrid.
@@Wrangler4XEFans Ok. So after the 20-ish miles or so, I will only be using the 4 cylinder 2.0? Which would mean, only around 270 horsepower for a 5k lbs. Jeep? So that means the 375 horsepower is only available for that small 20-25 mile window. Which would put the 4XE to be a great short range vehicle, and good at trails, but not so good for a longer trip.
@@timotaio69 No, the 4XE is always a hybrid. When the electric range runs out, there is still around 15% total state of charge. The 4XE has two electric motor/generators. One is in the transmission and one is on the front of the engine. They can both be used to charge the battery when demand is low enough to allow them to do so. The one in the transmission provides propulsion and the one on the front of the engine provides torque to the front of the engine when demand is high. But any time the gas engine is running, the one on the front of the engine can maintain charge to the battery. So there’s never a time that full horsepower isn’t available.
@@timotaio69 I have some 0-60 videos here on my channel. They were shot at
@@Wrangler4XEFans Oh! That's awesome! Sorry for my lack of comprehension on this matter. I just wasn't getting this. Thank you for your help and guidance.
Can I charge my jeep every single day or is it wise not to?
It was designed for it. It actually has a 17.5kwh battery but only charges to 17.3. So it’s never charged to 100%.
I just don’t understand why ram hasn’t put this system in the trucks. The E torque system doesn’t even compare to this.
That's a great question. I'm sure market research or pricing or something else.
Please make a video about "battery save" vs. "Battery Charge" under "E-Hybrid----e-Save."
@@davidp1963 Let’s talk about eSave
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@@davidp1963 Hybrid Mode vs. eSave+Battery Save MPG Shootout
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Basi g on what you said, meaning after the batter runs out at 1% , the vehicle will run a full gas operation , that is aprox 20 mpg. And that being said, defeats the purpose of being a PHEV vehicle,
Well, not to get semantic but it’s always a hybrid. The battery doesn’t completely run out, it just sustains like regular hybrids. I’ve normally seen around 24 MPG but that varies down to 21 MPG on long trips. I wouldn’t say it defeats the purpose of the PHEV for most people. Most people drive less than 30 miles a day. But for people that have long daily commutes without the ability to charge at work, the 4XE isn’t the best choice. It’s strength is in shorter daily commutes. I will say though that I’ve talked with several people that have traded in a JK for a JL and they are seeing better real world gas mileage on longer trips.
Comment edit:
When I say it “sustains”, it’s only at about 15% total state of charge. It doesn’t maintain a full battery. When the 4XE hit’s
Contradicts to your statements in the video regarding, carbon emissions because once the the battery runs out, it’ll turn to hybrid mode.
@@lynoj777 In what way does it contradict?
@@lynoj777 I think I see what your are talking about. I was trying to verbalize the difference between HEVs and PHEVs. Some difference and some similarities.
How many miles can you go in city driving conditions with one full battery charge and a tank of gas?
I don’t know that myself. I think the stated range is 370.
Is there anyway the car can tell you how many miles you have left before the tank is empty. On a full tank I think that the gas range should read “3??”.
For those of you who have purchased the 4Xe, what did you pay?
$66500 in Canada. Sahara with cold weather package and 3 piece hard top. About $5K more than equivalent gas version
this is a beautiful beast wish I could of hold out until it released.
No you don't. You dodged a bullet. It's a nightmare. I have one.
@@adrians.7489 wym?? Just got mine a couple weeks ago
I would buy this 4xe if the range was at least 50 miles.
That would be nice.
Top info again👍
What no one talks about is the big elephant in the room.... what is the lifespan of that big expensive battery..? in my case for example if I move to another country for work and wanna take my 4xe I would lose the warranty as Jeep does not have international warranty.... also in case the battery comes to its end of life, would the vehicle keeps operating on gas only at least until one gets a new battery pack..?
I hear you. If it helps, one of the reasons it’s not a prominent part of the conversation is due to the lack of real-world examples of required battery replacements in Hybrids, PHEVs and EVs. There are a lot of comments made on social media about the idea but it’s largely speculation that isn’t rooted in any kind of reality. Battery replacements happen but the speculated lifespan of batteries is in the 12 to 15 years range. The truth is, we don’t know what batteries will cost by then but they will be cheaper in the future than they are today. Battery costs have dropped dramatically over the past 10 years so it’s likely they will continue to do so in the coming years. At some point the supply/demand model will kick in and the costs will level out. So my guess with the Wrangler 4XE, the cost of a battery replacement will be anywhere from $2500 to $5000 at the most. But my speculation is admittedly short-sighted as I have no clue what the prices will look like in a decade or more. Thank you for the conversation starter.
Jeep warranties the battery and electric system for it for 100,000 miles I believe. I trade mine back in after 3 yr. lease so I don't really care all that much.
@@ggolds5 my concerns are different, first I’m taking the jeep to another country due to work and automatically all warranty is void, second I’m planning to keep it for a long time, so the battery is still a concern at least for me..!
There is a third party company thats doing some amazing work on reconditioning the oldest Tesla battery systems and getting them back in optimal performance range. I can’t recall the company name but I’m sure you’ll find them if you hunt around. I imagine that type of reconditioning service will make a huge difference in longevity and become more available from multiple vendors over time. I know that I plan to stop in for a reconditioning evaluation after 10 years on my Tesla - a car I plan to keep as long as possible. If I get a 4xE right now I’d likely lease as I imagine full electrification will very quickly replace this version causing resale values to tank on the 4xE in the future making the cost of ownership quite pricey.
You can regenerate power into the battery while driving in e-save mode. In the hybrid menu set it to charge the battery. As long as you are not consuming too much power with the climate control, it will recharge the battery.
Right, but at the cost of using more gas.