Harley-Davidson stages explained / is it worth it ?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 29 มิ.ย. 2024
- Breaking down Harley Davidson Stage 1, Stage 2, Stage 3, & Stage 4
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New Sub love the convo gave me a lot of understanding keep up the good content
This was exactly what I was looking for information wise. Glad I stumbled upon this video. Thanks
Learned a lot guy’s, saved me a lot of money! Now I no exactly what Im going to spend my money on! Awesome job Men!
Great conversation, keep more like this coming.
Stage I is really just for looks and sound. Stage II the bike really comes alive. Upgrading the oil pump for stage II is a good idea as well.
bro you guys just gave me some awesome insight i was wanting to build my bike to the gills but now that you guys said it like that i want the reliability
Stage one for about 3 months and I have no intention on going any higher. I’ve spent plenty of money on all the other things that I’m good with the M8 power where it’s at. Biggest difference I saw in the bike was changing out that shit suspension. That would be the first thing I recommend.
Great vid guys, sounds like stage 2 might be as far as I would go with my 114, really sensible advice, keep it coming, cheers
If it's a 114 stage 2 is all you need haha
I have the same road glide special. I went stage 2 with the torque cam. For me it wasn't about the power but the sound.
That’s dope that you gonna use both cams instead of the same one. Best of both worlds.. at first I’m like naa put that tq cam in the low rider but then when you said you gonna put the hp cam in fxlrs and tq cam in the glide I’m like ahhh that’s perfect 👌🏼😎
Thanks so much for posting this! Just had a stage 1 done on my ‘22 lowrider S with Bassani Road Rage III’s put on her. Love the difference in sound, torque, and HP, but….I was wanting that throaty, lumpy, deeper sound that I once had with my ‘05 Dyna Wide Glide. Not quite there with the Bassani, but I do really like them. Going to stage 2 I think will get me there. Closing comment- you’d think for over 20k on a HD you would at least….very damn least….already be at a stage 1 out the gate. Liked and subbed your channel.
Stage 2 is just fine in my opinion. Aftermarket of course (RS 468, S&S 475, & WM8-22X) header pipe and slip-on, Power Vision tuner, lifters, adjustable pushrods and maybe intake manifold. This is more than enough HP and TQ!
475 s&s cam kit comping up next
For the buck you cant go wrong with that
Very informative discussion, I went with the S&S sidewinder 100 cubic inch on my 2005 Soft Tale no problems
What up MK, My 2018 CVO is a stage 2 Zippers 468 Redline Cam. VH Header/VH 4.5 Slipons 115hp/130 torque..... Bike pulls like a beast even with 2 up who needs more then that.
Can’t wait for the next ✌🏼
Definitely needed to hear this.
I have a 107 Street Glide, been Stage 1 for most of the 3 years I’ve owned it.. been seriously considering a Stage 2 for a while, just not sure which cam to pick yet.
Just this morning, I stumbled across a 119” Stage 3 kit.. and thought that might be fun to do along with the cam.. However, in my research, as you were saying, I found quite a few that had issues with the aftermarket cylinders and pistons. So, I think Stage 2 is where I’m gonna call it good. Thanks
Good insight on the stage options out there for H-Ds. Running Stage 1 on my 2020 Low Rider S now, and I think I wouldn’t go more than a stage ll period.
Solid Video guys thanks for the clarifications
planning on doing a stage 1 on my sportster and keep it at that, maybe once i get on bigger softail mabe ill do up to a stage 2
I have a 2021 Road Glide Special with Stage II (2-1-2) and LOVE my Torque at take off. I have had it about 2 years now and enjoy it. I don't plan on going up to any other Stage.
Running a Woods 22XE cam on my 107 Street Bob and it’s completely changed the bike. It rips all the way through the power band. I do wish it had some more lope but damn, it’s fun. The only downside is that it’s eating through my MPG on the small tank that come on the SB. So my solution to that is swapping out to a LRS tank over the winter.
@Brent - I'm looking into swapping a '22 Low Rider S tank onto my '18 Breakout.
I have a 21 street bob. Have the stage 1 right now but plan on doing a stage 2 this spring. I was thinking about doing the HP cam over the torque cam as well. I like to ride in the higher rpms because to me the bike seems to like the 3-4000 rmp range. Are you going to do a video on the different cams for stage 2? That would be a great video. I have an extended warranty so I plan on sticking to screaming eagle.
Great conversation.. Stage 2 is sufficient in my opinion on the m8’s. But sh!t if you can afford it who wouldn’t go for stage4🤣.
Great video bro🔥
Pretty Good Video,Thank you Guys!
Good discussion. I totally understand warranty like Jerry has. But beyond that you are not spending more for aftermarket and the reliability is there if not more. And the power you get even from a stage two is definitely more than a HD cam and the epa tuner.
True that , I have stage1 and was about to get stage 2 HD across the board but put it on the side for now and got a Revo-a instead, I’ll get stage2 in the future and that’s all I’m doing no 3 and 4 😁
I had to pause at 12:10. I have been thinking of picking up a SB or S model in 2022 & have been watching a ton of vids this last week. The stage 4 HD SE (I guess you don't have to or there are multiple choice stage 4 kits) had bigger cylinders/pistons, stock compression. So I decided to go to HD website & even the stage 3 has the bigger cyl/pistons upgrade for the M8 motors. = M8 Crate motor is only $6257 from the factory. Also when going with heavier valve springs you need the high-capacity Tappets/lifters. It is all in the breathing & that is why your Evo runs like that plus there is more counterbalance in these motors than the evo. 114 = bigger = geared taller = a faster top end speed. = could probably be changed with the sprockets but the off the line would most likely be slower unless you keep it redlined the hole tome.
One vid I watched they pulled out an S&S cam with not much time (swapping cams for performance testing reasons) & it was showing some unusual wear on one of the cam lobes.
Me, either 131" from the factory at purchase or stay 114" with performance heads, cam, lifters, throttle Body, Injectors, Intake &, Exhaust with the tuners on all of course It is all in the breathing. Better off getting the HD-SE Heads & taking them to a race shop with a air flow tester & have them polished for the cam you plan on using. Back to the vid.
Got a 2019 883 with the s&s 1200 big bore kit Arlen Ness big sucker air intake Cobra speedster exhaust fuel pack 3 tuner with a custom tune stock cams It's a night and day difference Rev limiter is set at 6,800 pulls all the way through cruises up to 95 comfortably. That's going to be about it for that bike I spent close to four grand over two years.
Stage 2 was my choice and I'm VERY satisfied with it. My 21 RGS has made me smile since day 1.
thanks, great explanation!
I agree with Jerry. Stage II is sufficient. I have my Road Glide, it drives very well and the sound is brilliant. I have 465 S&S, Power Duals headpipe, Street Canons mufflers, FP3 and Screamin Eagle air filter 💪🔥
I have a 2021 Road Glide special. Same as you. Black and Red. Def doing the stage 1 this winter. Maybe stage 2 next year/winter and will see after that.
Just bought my second bike, used to ride a 150cc Honda. Now running a dyna stage 4. Is just insane.
Stage 2 is the perfect medium and $ per horsepower. I’ve been rocking a woods 777 on my FXLRS since I bought it, I might go to some forged internals just to beef up the valvetrain for reliability.
Thanks guys 👍🏼
I spend a lot of time in London for work they call Stella fight starter in a bottle LOLz. Great channel thanks for the info and Subscribed/liked
😎🤙🏽
Glad I watched this clip stage two for me
Had a Stage III installed when I purchased my FXLR in 2018 (107 to 114), SE tuner and full warranty. The power and torque is exactly where I want it for my style of riding (I ride very spiritedly but I do not track the bike). I have absolutely no interest in a Stage IV and I have had no reliability issues with the 114 upgrade. Now that the bike is out of warranty I would consider doing a different cam with an after market tuner (to increase the mid range power/torque), [not that I feel the 114 is under powered] but I'm not currently rushed to do that - I would only go there if and when the cam side of the motor needed to be disassembled for some reason in order to save on labor costs.
Spot on. I did the same with my 2019 sport Glide. 20% off from Harley on all parts within 60 days of purchase and retain full warranty. I did 64 TB & intake and S&S Streetmaster with catalyst so it retained for warranty. Had to use a map from a 117 stage three to get enough fuel. Beautiful curves 116 HP with 116 TQ. 21,000 miles later out of warranty also and zero issues. The stage kit was a solid deal for me. Financed it in with my bike loan as well so no out-of-pocket. Even put an expensive gap insurance on it so if the bike was totaled or stolen I would have no financial liability.
I totally agree did se stage 3 original 107-114 upgrade se manifold s&s sidewinder 2 into 1 very happy with this kit but as usual a after market cam 475 s&s or 472 red shift down the road if I need to fix anything
Thanks for the video. I have the same conversation with myself all the time. In terms of chasing something, the metric I frequently chase the most is best value or bang for the buck. What money do I need to spend that gets me closest to the edge without dumping inordinate cash into upgrades that provide relatively marginal value? Your conclusion is the same as mine - a thoughtful and proven Stage II combination aligned to your desired riding experience.
I've been thinking about putting a stage 2 on my EGS but not sure if it's worth the money for the little extra power from the stage 1 it already has .
Good stuff guys! I have a 17 RG Special. Looking to do a Stage II kit. Any recommendations for a 107?
I got 114 stage 1, I was looking at what stage to go up to im taking your guys advice just going up to the stage 2 thanks.
You guys answered my question! DONT GO PAST STAGE TWO!!! crazy thing i haven't even got my bike yet...im thinking ultra or road glide? Im 6'5..300 any suggestions today's my girl's bday 8/15/23 im going sat to look hopefully purchase my baby her name will be SMOOCHIES..😂 Glad i found you guys insightful and funny...great channel!! As i sit in the car garage i can hear super bikes getting it..from Georgia the state..happy riding..
💔SOUL💔
Nice convo…👍🏾👍🏾👍🏾👍🏾
My '20 SGS: I went from 114 Stage-1 to the 114-to-117 Stage-4 HD SE Kit, plus the Extreme Ventilator AC and the SE High-flow Exhaust System, and with both SE Tuners (18mm wideband O2 sensors) to maintain full warranty, and (in my case, for Ca.) to maintain full compliance with E.P.A. and C.A.R.B. I also added the fan to the oil cooler and the HD rear cylinder fan. And ditched the stock suspension for Legends (AXEO up front, & REVO-A 13" out back). Very satisfied and the bike performs great everywhere (and yes, it's screams from about 3800-6200 rpm). Most riders would be more than satisfied with just Stage-1 (Intake/Exhaust/Stage-1 Tune), and perhaps Stage-2 [re: Stage-1 plus Cam & Stage-2 Tune]. For some and on M8 Touring models, and specially if they tour a lot, 2-up and loaded down...the Stage-3 [107-to-119, and 114/117-to-122] would be probably worth it (the Stage-3 kits use the Stage-2 Torque Cam]. IMO, always address heat management first (get a fan on that oil cooler) and upgrade the suspension (stock suspension sucks).
I thought all stage 3 kits used the SE-498 cam like mine did. Great cam adds top end rpm range & HP without sacrificing low-end torque like the stage for cam does.
For M8: the SE8-462 Cam is the "power cam" (mid-range to upper rpm) and the SE8-447 "torque cam (low-to-mid rpm range) are available. The SE8-498 Cam is used (to best of my knowledge) is used in some Stage-3 Kits, but not the Stage-3 114-to-122 kit definitely uses the SE8-447 Torque Cam; need to confirm which cam comes with the 107-to-119 kit. One thing I also found out is that for the CVO 117 engine, the Stage-2 cam is the SE8-462 power cam; SE8-447 cam not listed for the CVO 117 because the stock CVO 117 cam is already somewhat of a torque cam but with strong mid-range (re: no real benefit to installing the torque cam into a CVO 117). That's the latest info I've found.
Great video boys. Comment please on where Jerry would have a Stage 2 done in Dirty Jersey. Thx
I might go with a stage 1 on my 05 night train, possibly stage 2. I don't really see the point with any more than that on my old bike. It does pretty damn good on all stock . The biggest thing it screams for another gear at 65 -70 mph. So yep 6 gears and a stage 2 will be all I need.
On the stock M8 114, will the upgrades I’m prove both the initial off the line torque, and the long haul top end.?
Stage 3 works for me!! To each their own though
Great content. I have a 2007 street glide (96)and a average rider but want a little more passing power. Do you recommend just adding cam or full stage 1 ?
I have the 07 streetglide as well and went straight to doing a stage 4 from stage 1 It ended up costing me 6k but oh it’s a completely different bike!
I have a Sport Glide 107cu in fitted a Rinehart 4” slip on exhaust - great sound , takes away the wheezyness of original, gave me 2:1 all for $400.00. Should have stopped there. Then I fitted SE extreme air filter, V&H FP3, notice runs more smoothly, throttle more responsive and quicker but somehow “less Harley” now I’m going to fit SE torque cam so that takes me to Stage II but I’m not sure why. Everyone suggests you need to do Stage I & II but I’d seriously ask why. I guess it depends on how much money you have.
Great video, guys. When just cruising your highway at 85-90, do these stage upgrades affect your gas mileage a lot?
yes
I had stage 1 screaming eagle big bore on my Night Train.👌👍🔥
What up MK what cam you going with on the Lowrider S?
I just got the Ohlins suspension installed on my bike. It rode differently / a lot better than before. The HD Tech stated , "suspension has not even been broken in yet. It will feel even better"
I considered a 131 Stage IV kit instead of a 135 Crate Engine replacement for my 2022 Street Glide Special
Is a 131 IV kit now cheaper since the 135 Crate Engine is being produced?
The wait for my area in Pennsylvania for a 135 is likely up to December or later when it is officially released for here compared to scheduling a 131 kit upgrade next week.
I am just trying to weigh my options. Looking for any comments, thoughts, or suggestions from anyone.
Good stuff
Fantastic video. I really like how you touched on the fact that going stage three or four you lose reliability. My question is if you go stage two how much reliability do you lose?
And anything above Stage 1 you lose your warranty.
Do you "need" a tune after changing the exhaust and intake?
I've heard that the tune is more for the bike to ride more efficiently and improved throttle response instead of seeing a performance gain. The latest blockhead video shows that results for tuning are negligible from a gains perspective but maybe it's better for the bike.
Are catchpans breathers still recommendable for longevity of your motors?
Thank you!! Im new haven't even gotten my bike yet..leaning towards the road glide or the ultra glide? Im 6'5 ..300 pounds...so it has to be big! And i plan on long trips so comforts a must plus power so screaming eagle/cvo is a must..gentleman or readers your thoughts? 8/15/23 is the date actually my ladies bday..your thoughts on the bike?
My 114 heritage with my stage 2 with high performance woods cam will walk away from your low rider at any speed because a woods cam the power come on from 2000 rpm until 6000. Totally agree stage 2 is enough. Cycle fanatics blew his 128 up sitting in traffic. Woods cam TBR 2 into 1 dyno tuned with a chain conversion and I am done.
I have CVO breakout and also consider IV, i see the benefit the bike is starting quick keeping the power more than 1500rpm, pls next videos HD performance graps and the realy comaprison before I, II, III IV (acceleration, tíme from 0-100km/h 60-100...)
What to the tow rating and would the 131 improve the pull ability?
I think the most I’m gonna go on my FXLRS is stage 2 with a S&S 475 cam
Don’t want to kill my mpgs
Great information. Like the content. Keep it coming.
Yea glad I decided not to go crazy on my 21 ultra 114. I just got taxes back and decided to do a screaming eagle stage 2 with power cam and they let me choose my exhaust so I did fuel moto RTX 2-1. $2300 for a stage 2 with them installing. My bike is bone stock so I thought that’s a good deal. But did have to pay exhaust separate which most of time Harley riders already have exhaust lol. Should get installed within next 3 weeks so should be a blast. I’m guessing 105hp and 115trq setup plenty for me
I’m looking at a HD triglide CVO 117, looking to pull a small trailer around the US.
I beg to differ with you both, but for a different reason than you might think.
I went Screaming Eagle 117 Stage 4 on both of my new M8 engines. Torque cam in the Street Glide Special and Horsepower cam in my Breakout.
The power I make in both bike suits me perfectly for how I ride them but the biggest difference for me, and why I disagree with you guys, is riding in a pack with my Motorcycle Club I consistently get way better gas mileage when cruising on long trips.
So to me, cruising at let's say 80mph cross country in a group and using less gas than literally every other bike in the pack, means I'm putting in less gas at each fill up and saving a ton of cash.
Case in point, on the Street Glide Special, most of our guys are down to 1/4 tank when we fill up and I'm still around 1/2 a tank. That's a significant difference!
I feel like over the past two years the money I've saved on gas more than paid for the difference in going Stage 4.
But... If I open the throttle and lay the smackdown on the other bikes, then I burn thru gas like crazy.
I'm only referring to cruising speeds, holding it steady mile after mile on our long trips. That's when I'm burning less fuel than my Brothers.
IFFI
Stage 4 FTW 🤘🏻
Stock 2024 HD fat boy114 stage 1 or stage 2 screaming eagle or S&S with Blow Performance Exhaust or Vance & Hines Eliminator 300 PCX?
To keep warranty on your new bike maybe go with V&H slip ons stage one?
Not for racing just want it to look and sound bad ass.
I agree stage 2 is good enough. 2023 I'll be financially ready to buy a Harley. Right off the bat stage 2, torque cam. My question would this suck up the gas? Or just depends on how you ride.
Who cares. It's minimal anyway. No regerts
Cooling on Harleys is crucial!
By the sounds of it Stage II is the sweet spot balancing reliability, power gains and cost. If you later decide you want to be faster then you can add a Trusk turbo system on top. 😂
I have a stage 2 power cam .with an extra tooth on the sprocket.wow sluggish from stop but has so much top end.i thought a Ducati was fast.
I agree stage 1.....plenty for me
I went with stage 2 Harley free flowing exhaust tq cam
I beg to differ with Ole boy Jerry there. Tons of guys including myself have built big bore engines, and they're very reliable. Some of your favorite youtubers tour around all over the country with big bore kits, with no problems what so ever. You just have to be honest with your ride style and pocket book. But lots of guys out there riding around with reliable, juiced up engines!
I'm new to all this so please forgive me for asking stupid questions. I believe there are a total of 4 stages_ so can you choose to do any stage you like? For example can you dive into a stage 3 from stock or do you have to do stage 1 then stage 2 and then 3?
Also you guys spoke a bit about more power at the top or lower end. I'm not that interested in riding at high speeds but would prefer to have power at the ready for overtaking and getting myself out of trouble. Does that mean I'm looking at the tork end? Thanks guys
Stage 1 is the base for any of the other stages. Regardless if you go 2, 3 or 4 you need stage 1. As for 2, 3 and 4 you can choose anyone after that. It also depends on what bike you’re riding. If it’s a twin cam or Milwaukee 8?
@@twistieslayer3592 thanks for getting back to me so quickly. I'm getting a 2021 Road king M8 engine 107
@@danthechippie4439 You don’t want to compromise the warranty of your new bike. So you want to use Harley’s Screaming Eagle products. Start out with your stage 1 High Flow air cleaner, SE Pro Street Tuner and SE Street Cannon Mufflers. Stage 1 is about a 10% increase in power, so ride around with that for awhile. After that if you feel you need more power then go with the SE stage 2 Torque cam. It focuses on low end power, allowing you to overtake without having to downshift. However, if you’re dead set on Stage 3, then skip stage 2. Stage 3 includes a cam that focuses on low and mid range power. But in my honest opinion stage 2 will offer you all the power you’ll ever need. Don’t fall into stage rage and spend unnecessary money.
@@twistieslayer3592 hi, thank you so much for all the helpful tips. I have taken everything you said om board and I understand a lot more about the difference stages, about what to do and what not to do, I wasn't even thinking about the warranty. Thanks again
So I have a 14 sgs which as everyone knows it’s a 103 to start out. I have a screamin eagle stage 4 kit on it. What would that make it…. A 107 or 110?
I feel like the stages and the whole warranty if you don’t go with se is just so your money doesn’t go to after market the stages are just sales pitch idk just opinion
C-Fx built up his bike and where is it now?
In Australia our max speed limit is 68mph....are Stage?? worth it here
Cool
Doesn't matter what make kit per say, this is in the end , your still having to build it with Harley Davidson pistons ,connecting rods anyway there made the strongest, new cams will need new connecting rods also, old cams will have loved the original ones, then you have 2 choices, 1) machine connecting rods from oval to round again hoping for no slop, option2) buy strongest connecting rods forged steel for larger bore motors, he pistons are strongest available also.
Is the 103 or the 107 most reliable with stage 2
what about the stage 5 tire shredder kit
?
My 1450cc has a stage 3 dose that mean it's a bigger cc now ???
Jerry is right. No reason to go past stage 2 especially on the M8 engines
I have an 06 ultra classic i just bought and its my first touring harley the previous owner added an oil cooler and when i hit 3k rpms and i give her hell the needle flys from 35mph to 85mph in a second! Do you guys think the previous owner added a cam too it? from my knowledge most people complain about no power in the ultra classic! the ultra i have will scoot like now after im over 3k rpms! Please your thoughts guy and thank you #flippinstoop
No sense and wasting your time and money on screaming eagle for the M8. Aftermarket stage 2 Redshift 468 cam w Tmax tuner and a good exhaust will run close to a state 4 screaming eagle. And stage 2 is cheaper than stage 1, did stage 2 myself and only spent 700$ with all the tools I need and cam. Highly recommend.
I have a 2019 Road Glide Special with stage 3 112 hp 121lbsft
I’m so good at stage 2
I had to laugh when you said how much do you want to spend to chase the horsepower. Well I'm a drag racer so I'll take the fifth on that question. The real secret is knowing how to do the work yourself or ida spent another 100k on my drag car.
If some is good more is better and too much is just enough. I've never gotten into this stage business. I just built my sportster to be fun on the street and strip. It runs mid elevens in the quarter and low sevens in the eighth and gets 46 mpg on pump gas.
That's very respectable performance for a street bike. I wouldn't complain about that
Agreed. Stage 2 is the better bang for buck
i'm only going to do stage 2 with my low rider s
The only way to make your Street Glide or Road Glide more powerful is to go to Stage 4. Very Expensive, but fun
2018 fat Bob with a stage four 117 screaming eagle kit. Power vision tuner D cat Header pipes and screaming Eagle slip ons (spiked) sounds good in town sources Like a Eagle when you open it up. Let me tell you this thing Pulls (oh mama) from the get go all the way up to redline.
So sorry guys stage four for me. 😏
Awesome video guys !
And I agree with you Stage 1 is something to always do. If you want more power Stage 2 but nothing above.
But there is one thing that nobody ever talks about is fuel consumption. How does fuel consumption increases with stages, coming from stock?
A lot! I have a Zippers 468 Red Shift cam and I only get around 30-33 miles per gallon.
@@quomofo1 so is that considered as a stage 1-2-3 ? It doesn’t feel that much (needed to convert it to Liters per Kilometers)
@@romanolecoursier It’s a stage 2 upgrade. Considering when my bike was stock I was getting around 45-47 miles per gallon my fuel consumption took a big hit but it was still well worth it. I’m about to have a Zippers 124 big bore kit installed on my bike in a few weeks. It will bump up my HP to around 117 and torque to 150.
@@quomofo1 « Chills, lateral chills! » awesome man! Thanks for the insight! Enjoy the bump of POWAAA
and ride safe !
@Lumberjacks Production
I get better fuel economy than stock with my SE Stage 4, holding it steady at cruising speed on the highway.
But when I tap into the performance my fuel guage drops considerably faster than it did when stock. 😀
When I first got the Stage 4 I was using the power all the time! Cost me a ton in fuel but I didn't care because it felt so good! 👿
No I mostly just cruise around. Until I need to pass someone. Then it's game on! 😉
What do ya’ll think is the best tuner to use for Stage I??
Power vision
No reason for a power cam on any touring bike IMO the touring platform benefits better from the torque cam. The Softail platform benefits from the power cam IMO.
Anyone out there do a stage 2 on an iron 1200 with the Feuling 505/515 cam.......