The 131s with different exhaust and cam are typically making around 150/150 or a little above. I will say the best bang for buck on high hp/tq is a 107 to 124 or 114 to 128 bolt on kit with aftermarket cam, exhaust, air cleaner, tuner, pipes and stock heads, they usually make around 125hp and 145 tq or more. The redshift 468 compared to the s&s 475 is that the 468 torque comes on earlier and lays a flatter torque curve than the 475. The 468 peak tq hits about 2.75 to 3k rpms and carries the tq curve to about 5k and the 475 hits at about 3.5 to 4K then dies down. Truthfully horse power numbers don’t matter on these bigger bikes because majority of riders don’t ride past the 4k rpm range, early torque is what people want. People want as much torque in the lower rpm range as possible and want it to carry out as far as possible. On these lower rpm tq cams such as the 468 they will give up some peak tq and hp numbers compared to mid range tq cams like the 475 to get that lower peak tq, u give some to get some when picking cams. I bet if you looked at the 468 and 475 graph on the same size engine the 468 peak tq would hit 1k earlier than the 475 but the 475 will have a little higher tq number. For hp on the 468 and 475, the 475 will have higher peak hp at like 5k+ rpm but in the lower rpms like idle to 4K (typically where most riders ride) they will have the same or identical hp numbers or the 468 will slightly have higher hp in that rpm range. You pick the cam for your riding habits and the bike you are riding. Just because one cam makes a little higher hp in the higher rpms doesn’t matter because most people won’t hit that number. So basically what I’m saying is if you ride in the idle to 4K range and ride a heavy touring bike the earliest tq is what u want. As for the s&s 475 being the “best” cam for these bikes I would disagree, they sound the best imo but I’ve seen other cams such as the tts-175 in a heritage 114 make better hp and tq in the higher and lower rpms and make a waaay better tq curve than the s&s 475. That stock 114 heritage with the tts-175 cam, s&s exhaust and tts tuner with a hpi manifold made 122 hp at 5.55k rpms and 133tq at 3.61k rpms. The bike also make 120tq by 2.2k rpms and 100hp by 4K rpms.
@@ashebarley77385I would not do any screamin eagle bs tbh. Lots of problems with lifters breaking and pistons seizing up due to poor cylinder machining. What happens after the warranty is up and the lifters break, Harley wont be covering that. Depending on what you are planning to do if that is just a cam, exhaust, tuner and air cleaner or a big engine build, I could give you some suggestions, but I would definitely be picking after market cams and companies.
Thanks Bob for the input. I have a 2020 114 RG. Also this master tuner said the RDRS mode is hard to tune the bike up. Ugh just another headache. Yes he has good lifters that don’t fail he wants me to use. He said the S&s push rods I bought to just keep those. So ok reckon I’ll just go w the tts cam and what this guy in Fort Worth suggesting me to do! I mean he works in engines all day everyday so he knows his stuff. Thanks BoB
I've got a 2021 FXLRS here in Kommiefornia, and I almost made the mistake of the 131 crate, but instead went with the 128 S&S with full Dyno tune. So thankful!
This video is everything I needed. I'm looking at trading in my FLSS for a Road King Special and had thought about a 131 upgrade. But after this, I have a little more idea of the best path. I really appreciate the work you put into this video. I will say the one thing that I'll do is a 2 into 1 exhaust. It makes a big difference.
That 2-1 helps extract what a true dual or 2-1-2 leaves on the table after mods. The sound alone makes it a no go, not to mention I’d have to go with a dummy pipe in order to keep the traditional look I think an HD should have. Of course this is just my opinion.
Appreciate the analysis on the different motors power to cost ratio! Really nice video will help many people decide on they’re money. Keep up the great work! I personally have 2018 Streetglide special 107 and this video cleared it up for me Thanks again! I’m personally going stage 2 and feel that will be plenty for me.
I agree with you You made the right decision Doing The stage 2 With the S &S 475 cam When I first seen the numbers on the 131 from Harley I couldn't justify paying that much money For what little more you get out of it Your bike is perfect just the way it is Ride safe and keep the rubber side down
I had the s&s 124 on my 2018 fxfb. 11k miles and it grenades. Done by a local reputable shop. Thank god my insurance covers accidental mechanical. Buying the 131 today.
This video was done before your engine mishap. My build, 2021 FLHTK SE 131 kit, Max-Cell 837b cam kit, Fullsac header, Khrome Werks 4.5. Dyno 150hp, 161 ft lbs torque the bike is a monster! I was about to do a zippers or Fuel moto kit and you melted your motor. Decided if it blew up at least it's all HD other than the cam kit. Did the Trask basket and Man o War comp, G3 clutch to finish it off. $7200. complete plus exhaust cost. Tuner said with D&D 2x1 160hp. Hmmm.
Six grand is for the 131 crate motor being that you have a 114 you could get the kit for a little over three grand with the harley warranty. That’s the way I went for my 2020 road glide special
@@howardstumpf-doc9462 sounds good. The bare Kit is around 3k another grand to install, you need an exhaust, tuner, dyno … my dealer says about 6k out the door
WOW... My old 2003 Duce I had was modified with a S&S 124.. It made 135tq and 125hp... Woods 6 cam and gear drive.. I had a weber single throat carb on it... It got 51mpg on the highway and my city riding was 42+ mpg..... Cant say the newer HD's have anything on an old Twin Cam... I put over 130.000 miles on it before I sold it..
I’m going with the S&S 128 kit. I upgraded to a RS468, S&S cam plate and oil pump and all the goodies that come with that kit. I installed a Thundermax EFI and full TAB performance exhaust with 2.5 inch baffles. The bike runs great. I recently installed the Thundermax oil cooling fan. So far I like all my upgrades.
My 2019 cvo 117 with the s+s 475 and khrome werks exhaust made 119hp and 131tq. Just had a FM 128 done and it now makes 138hp and 150tq with the 475 cam. I chose to keep the 475 in my big bore because I love everything about this cam and it is the best sounding cam I’ve heard in an M8.
Nice, informative video! Yes, I agree, the S.E. 131 crate engine does not provide good value for the dollar; also, the S.E. “premium” lifters in these engines have a history of failed hyd. lifters causing catastrophic engine failure! I prefer the S&S 128 cu. in. kit for M8 engines with a 475G cam, billet lifter collars, cam plate and oil pump, and pushrods. CNC ported heads with a 62mm HPI throttle body really top this build off! Equally important for longevity is a Darkhorse crank, Trask billet clutch basket, and a high performance clutch. This combination is a Killer and the motor will last Forever! Thanks again for the video!
all the #'s on paper as any experienced rider knows does not mean anything as far as making your bike go like hell. it's the rider.but its a good comparison, and your right about $$$ and motors. nice review. keep em comming
First of all great video!! 2nd. Great explanation of different performance parts and cost of the different builds. I learned in my first bike build ( 2002 deuce) that do research’s do ask questions my 2016 SG 103 that was built up by the previous owner from bottom to top was a beast. But then I blew a valve spring at idle. ( to weak of a spring for the power I guess) i decided to put on the 110 stage 4 slip on kit. What a huge difference it made. My lower end is welded and balanced with S&S 585 torque cam. Although my #’s are at 105hp and 127fpt. I love the pull this thing has. The torque range is unbelievable as well. Personally, torque is where it’s at. Nothing like having it as soon as you twist the wick.
I have a 18 RK special 107 with a 475 cam and it is a beast !! Honesty i was happy with the stock 107 plenty of power but after getting a deal on the install of a 475 cam a tuner and some pipes let me tell u it is a rocket ship, way too much power for any American road with speed limits. U can only go so fast on our roads and i just can't enjoy the speed potential of what I got let alone spending more unnecessary cash on a 128 upgrade to give me even more power i still can't enjoy makes no sense IMO but to each his own. And always remember the 107 has a short stroke and the short stroke will give u more throttle response then the long stroke and from what i was told thats why their getting those numbers on the 107's bumped up to 128's, and now u have a 128 rocket ship that u can't fly to its true height potential because of speed limits, stop lights, cars pulling out in front of ya and coppers with radars. I would rather do just the cam, tuner and pipes and save the extra cash and purchase a used dyna and now have 2 bikes I can enjoy. Thanks for sharing sir appreciate the intel.
Good video, I just did a M8 107 engine, I used S&S 124 big bore kit S&S lifters 475 cam and 64 mm intake and throttlebody my Dyno numbers are 128 hp. 140 # torque. And the cam sounds awesome
Exactly the info I was looking for, EXACTLY. Very easy to understand and follow you. No if, and, or buts. You covered it all and spelled it out. Thanks so much. I was just surfing and stumbled on this video. My lucky day. later .
John you did the right thing torque means more than horsepower torque is where you’re riding the bike most of the time horsepower is top end you’re absolutely right!
You are right about intial cost of the 131 set up but if you just change out the cam and use aftermarket tuner youll be in or near 150tq or hp. You have a crank and everything ready to go for more power with the 131 vs just doing a stage 2. Al depends are your end goals. My 2022 street glide with 114" stage 2 zippers, 472 cam, siwiki 2 into 1 full length exhaust, bigger throttle body/intake put down 128hp/129tq. Bike was blast to ride, plenty of power for a year, I just recently installed the 135" with zippers 552 cam. Just finished break in. Getting dyno this weekend for numbers
Peter. From New Zealand. Gidday mate. I have a 2020 lowrider s. 114cu. Been fitted wih a Bassani 2 into 1, S & S 475 cam and dyno tuned. It makes very similar power & torque numbers as your bike. I tend to ride in the higher rev range quite a lot so i just love this cam. The S&S 128 kit is also very popular out here. They get great numbers out of it. Love your vids mate. Keep them coming. Cheers Peter From down under.
Thanks for the great video - I currently have a softail standard on order and was wondering what the best options are for the 107 as a base and it sounds like what you described with the 128 makes the most sense - in my opinion a bike with 140hp will be more than enough power and that torque figure is even more impressive. Seems to me like a 131 would make more power - but not really worth it for the money spent unless your looking for absolute bragging rights - the one thing I was wondering is how well the S&S gear driven cam would work on the M8 platform - i know of 1 person who went with that gear driven setup on a twin cam (on a 103) and absolutely loved it - anyone have any experience with the gear driven S&S setup for the M8 ?
Zippers, Tman, S&S, Fuel Moto 124 & 128 kits for around 6,000 to 7,000 will get the 135 to 145 hp and 150 to 160 ft lbs of torque. That is less than a 131 motor from Harley. Thanks for the info. Helped me make my mind up on the kits.
You can get so much out of an M8 motor with just a cam swap. I have the Red Shift 468 in mine and it’s plenty of power. Being in California you still can’t buy the 131, it has not passed CARB yet.
Hey this is Bill from Maryland. I have a 2022 Harley Davidson Road Guide, this is excellent news. I have done a Stage II with HD’s torque cam so it wouldn’t void my warranty. It gave the bike nice power on the take off and really good throttle response. From what I am gathering the S & S 475 w/tuner would really wake the bike up with out spending a ton of money in the engine. If you have any more advice I would appreciate it. Thanks again!
Hey Bill I just picked up the same bike. I'm also thinking about doing the stage 2 with a screaming eagle cam just to keep the warranty. What exhaust are using?
FYI: you're comparison is apples to oranges, s&s 465 is closer in specs to the RS468 and the RS472 is closer in specs to the s&s 475 and then the dyno numbers favor Red Shift. I still like your posts keep up the good work! Thanx
Hey man, I totally agree with you on the 128 kit verses the 131. I just put the 128 kit on my 2020 street glide. And I will tell you it is a beast, there’s nothing like the torque and horsepower when you’re out on the road the sound coming out of the Reinhardt racing exhaust is incredible as well. Let me know when you guys are out on the road and I would be happy to join you all for a ride. Ride safe. Michael
man, great video! you dropped a lot of knowledge for me and also throwing in the prices.. greatly appreciate it man.. i know the pricing will be a lil different for me here in texas..but defiently gives me an ideal. i just bought the 114 special street glide. the two tone silver and black. :)
I have 2020 Breakout 114 with the RS468 cam and love it . My numbers are 112/129. HP is just a calculation on the V twin. What drives a V twin is torque . The 475 having a little more HP means nothing . I didn’t go with the S&S 475 because the cam operates best with 11:1 compression or big more applications and the 468 is a true bolt in for 10:5:1 compression. I am about to get a 128 kit running 10/75:1 higher compression but not 11:1 because I’m keeping the 468 . The 475 is a good cam but you’ll get better out of it with a big bore kit .
John great review 👍, I was going to use the 475 S&S and switched back to the RS468 for low end toque 2020 RoadGlide limited heavy bike, since the HP doesn't kick in until after 5000. I then added the S&S 128, w/55mm intake and ended up with 135Tq at 2000rpm and peak 149.95 @ 4000rpm. 122HP @ 5000. W/ fullsac headers and S&S MK-45s. Working on my son's SGS now so debating on 475 vs. 468 for that build. STOCK MOTORS SUCK!!
@@jakesoriano1313 thank you. I'm curious to know if you have noticed any more or extra heat coming from the new 128? I know it's cooler months now, but my concern is getting the engine too hot especially in city, rally, traffic jam, stop and go 90 minutes to get 3 miles type of conditions.
@@jasoningle43 the heat on my bike is still the same as it was with the stage II, no difference between the 128. I also have a complete stock 2020 SGS w/114 rode the same route same day in the FL heat to check the difference in the heat. Both bikes felt about the same to me. 100 mile ride city/hwy. Also went to Daytona Beach last weekend with the 128, got stuck in a little bit of traffic for 30min and it wasn't too bad heat wise.
My friend my friend Wills from Chicago built me a panhead 131 in it was the bomb I left everybody in the dust it had low top and it just kept climbing a climbing and climbing he geared it stroked it it was the best it was a monster
Good video in the process of doing this right now and was going to have Harley do it with screaming eagle parts stage one and two and definitely change my mind on What cam to use
The thing i dont like is the harleys with traction control have no tunes for them yet so adding power means zero cause the the traction control kicks in and limits any power gains unless you disable it which causes issues also
Spot on John!! For me it’s all about the torque period... The new M8 is a very versatile motor and, just by adding a Cam, Heavy Breather ie:Stage 1 and, a good solid tune ....”Bang, Ka~Pow” You have a fast ass bike!! Always great videos.... Ride Safe Brother.... See ya on the next one man...
I appreciate you sharing your experiences so we can all benefit. I have a 114 M8 with pipes and tune, but it doesn't sound like a Harley. So, some people suggest toque cams to get that sound. However, I'm learning that the only sound difference to be noticed is at idle. To really get a louder mean sound you need big bore kits. Do you agree?
My 2017 FLHSXE is pushing 115.20 HP & 127.93 ft-lb TQ. S&S 475C Fullsac Header Two Brothers Exhaust Custom Dyno That's it. I have a buddy that spent $5k on engine work (he has the same bike), and he's got a whopping 2HP more than me.
This makes alot of sense to me, I appreciate it very much! I have a 107 and wondering how more HP would you get with Port and polish heads? Yes or no on the head work? Enjoy your videos... Thanks!
Not to butt in but think of your engine as a pump. If your exhaust is restricted modifications upstream aren't as effective. Free flowing heads cant flow properly without air moving in and out. An aftermarket high flow air cleaner with no other modifications cant flow to its potential. So when we think of modifications we need to be mindful of the entire flow from front to back. Will a stock 107 displacement move enough air to need more flow from the heads? Can a cam make the difference? Just making huge flow from the heads and cam can actually snuff power numbers if the engine cant support it. I see guys mixing and matching parts with mixed results. They saw the best number from cam "A" and the best number from exhaust brand "b" but these were not tested together and may or may not support each other well. If I build a motor I get ahold of S&S and say heres what I'm looking to do.... what works with your build? I let them suggest my parts and ive never been disappointed.
George Ash I run Harley Davidson of Utica. My service department just finished up 2020 SGS with 131 kit. We used Woods cam and lifters and took it to our dyno guy. Pulled 161tq 157hp. Awesome package!
I have been saying that for a while 131 sounds bad ass but speed and power is not thier . Too much money no bang we have seen a few 131 get beat by 128 and a few metric muscle cruisers spank and 131 even with a chain conversions great 👍 vid very informative 👏
I'm doing all my research now or better yet have been. And I'm going to go with zippers sleeper. I've got a 17 RG standard 107 now,essentially a clean slat. I didn't want any bells and whistles because now I can make it my own period and not something from HD
Hey John, just for those with big wallets and little tech..... A huge techy question that maybe you can forward on toward your next vid......Can you explain to them in layman's terms, what the diff is between the 2 cams' " what rise and return rates are and spring return rates" so that they can see the diff ..... and don't forget the lapse-rate, ( the time the valve is seated for heat removal... so you don't melt the valve stem)....?? So if your Dyna tuner can do that..... Then this is your next vid to think on.... The next one would be ... " What is a map and why do I need one. .... Etc, etc. Thanks, Stay Safe .Ciao.
Have you checked out Moonshine Harley's 485 cam? Zipper's Redshift 472 is another good cam. Both work well on 114 and117 HD . So many good choices per application
People just need to do their homework like you did .Harley Davidson will sell you whatt they want it's up to you to know what you want. Just remember though if you want to keep your warranty it's usually only harley parts. Except maybe different pipes
I was going to do 131 screaming eagle stage 4 kit but I think I’m just going to do fuel moto 2-1 exhaust intake and then do a woods 22xe cam instead should be plenty for me
John, Thank you for sharing this very important information. I was thinking of upgrading to a 131 screaming eagle bolt on kit for my 2020 SGS, but after some thinking and consulting with someone very knowledgeable decided to go with a Stage 2 S&S 475 Cam, krome werks 2 into 2 full header high performance exhaust and a TTS turner. Looking forward to doing business with Dave at JD cycle works.
Not sure why anyone would spend 40k CDN on a new 114, then to turn around and completely void their warranty. I was traveling to British Columbia the other day, rented a 2020 Road Glide with the 107, and that thing moved. I'd personally only buy a Harley M8 out of warranty to throw a S&S 128 kit.
Shinedown_74 not me. Voided mine 4 months after new. Man these things run so much faster off the line than stock that they r so much more fun to ride. Its shameful Harley has to put a potato in the exhaust and use a seriously whippy cam. Ill take my chances. If it breaks then fix it.
Shinedown_74 s and s sidewinder 2 into 1 exhaust. HD ventilator ac. Powervision tuner. Woods Knight Prowler 22 x cam going in bike in a few weeks. Still have 10 months left on what wouldve been a warranty.
Its funny i thought the stage 2 on my 96 is bad ass. Woods 222 cam, V@A Pro pripe, Power Vision tune. I never drove any of these big bore bikes, or built motors. Must be crazy 😮
A dyno is just a tool can be cranked down tighter less less free play on the wheel you can show a stock smart car with 300 hp it’s just a tool for tuning
I commented to another TH-camr that a good stage 2 can get similar numbers than the 131 and this was his reply (copy paste from the reply): "It does but still 120 hp on a base tune isn't bad. I agree you can do a cam and put out close to those numbers but there's nothing like saying I got a 124 or 131 instead of a 114 with a cam." Somebody has a cubic inch complex...
Should you buy the 131…. No…. Unless you are racing the bike.. or you have cash to burn…There is some valid reasons to go with a stage 2.. I guess…. I will probably…. But before I start spending money on the engine… I’m buying safety.. an ultra cool oil filter and other upgrades to keep the motor functioning properly ,, better lighting ..
The 131s with different exhaust and cam are typically making around 150/150 or a little above. I will say the best bang for buck on high hp/tq is a 107 to 124 or 114 to 128 bolt on kit with aftermarket cam, exhaust, air cleaner, tuner, pipes and stock heads, they usually make around 125hp and 145 tq or more. The redshift 468 compared to the s&s 475 is that the 468 torque comes on earlier and lays a flatter torque curve than the 475. The 468 peak tq hits about 2.75 to 3k rpms and carries the tq curve to about 5k and the 475 hits at about 3.5 to 4K then dies down. Truthfully horse power numbers don’t matter on these bigger bikes because majority of riders don’t ride past the 4k rpm range, early torque is what people want. People want as much torque in the lower rpm range as possible and want it to carry out as far as possible. On these lower rpm tq cams such as the 468 they will give up some peak tq and hp numbers compared to mid range tq cams like the 475 to get that lower peak tq, u give some to get some when picking cams. I bet if you looked at the 468 and 475 graph on the same size engine the 468 peak tq would hit 1k earlier than the 475 but the 475 will have a little higher tq number. For hp on the 468 and 475, the 475 will have higher peak hp at like 5k+ rpm but in the lower rpms like idle to 4K (typically where most riders ride) they will have the same or identical hp numbers or the 468 will slightly have higher hp in that rpm range. You pick the cam for your riding habits and the bike you are riding. Just because one cam makes a little higher hp in the higher rpms doesn’t matter because most people won’t hit that number. So basically what I’m saying is if you ride in the idle to 4K range and ride a heavy touring bike the earliest tq is what u want. As for the s&s 475 being the “best” cam for these bikes I would disagree, they sound the best imo but I’ve seen other cams such as the tts-175 in a heritage 114 make better hp and tq in the higher and lower rpms and make a waaay better tq curve than the s&s 475. That stock 114 heritage with the tts-175 cam, s&s exhaust and tts tuner with a hpi manifold made 122 hp at 5.55k rpms and 133tq at 3.61k rpms. The bike also make 120tq by 2.2k rpms and 100hp by 4K rpms.
Thinking of doing the Tts cam vs screaming eagle.... warranty or not shit what to do??
Master engine guy uses the tts cam and manifold and better lifters is what he is recommending too
@@ashebarley77385I would not do any screamin eagle bs tbh. Lots of problems with lifters breaking and pistons seizing up due to poor cylinder machining. What happens after the warranty is up and the lifters break, Harley wont be covering that. Depending on what you are planning to do if that is just a cam, exhaust, tuner and air cleaner or a big engine build, I could give you some suggestions, but I would definitely be picking after market cams and companies.
@@ashebarley77385 What size engine and m8 or twin cam?
Thanks Bob for the input. I have a 2020 114 RG. Also this master tuner said the RDRS mode is hard to tune the bike up. Ugh just another headache. Yes he has good lifters that don’t fail he wants me to use. He said the S&s push rods I bought to just keep those. So ok reckon I’ll just go w the tts cam and what this guy in Fort Worth suggesting me to do! I mean he works in engines all day everyday so he knows his stuff. Thanks BoB
I've got a 2021 FXLRS here in Kommiefornia, and I almost made the mistake of the 131 crate, but instead went with the 128 S&S with full Dyno tune. So thankful!
Great choice with the S&S cam instead of the high dollar 131. Great break down cause the numbers tell it all.
This video is everything I needed. I'm looking at trading in my FLSS for a Road King Special and had thought about a 131 upgrade.
But after this, I have a little more idea of the best path.
I really appreciate the work you put into this video.
I will say the one thing that I'll do is a 2 into 1 exhaust. It makes a big difference.
That 2-1 helps extract what a true dual or 2-1-2 leaves on the table after mods. The sound alone makes it a no go, not to mention I’d have to go with a dummy pipe in order to keep the traditional look I think an HD should have. Of course this is just my opinion.
I love the sound of a 2 into 1.
Appreciate the analysis on the different motors power to cost ratio! Really nice video will help many people decide on they’re money. Keep up the great work! I personally have 2018 Streetglide special 107 and this video cleared it up for me Thanks again! I’m personally going stage 2 and feel that will be plenty for me.
@@adam54650 agree.
I agree with you You made the right decision Doing The stage 2 With the S &S 475 cam When I first seen the numbers on the 131 from Harley I couldn't justify paying that much money For what little more you get out of it Your bike is perfect just the way it is Ride safe and keep the rubber side down
I had the s&s 124 on my 2018 fxfb. 11k miles and it grenades. Done by a local reputable shop. Thank god my insurance covers accidental mechanical. Buying the 131 today.
Agreed! Love the power of the 131, but for a few thousand, not 10k. And the sound of the 475 is unbeaten.
This video was done before your engine mishap. My build, 2021 FLHTK SE 131 kit, Max-Cell 837b cam kit, Fullsac header, Khrome Werks 4.5. Dyno 150hp, 161 ft lbs torque the bike is a monster! I was about to do a zippers or Fuel moto kit and you melted your motor. Decided if it blew up at least it's all HD other than the cam kit. Did the Trask basket and Man o War comp, G3 clutch to finish it off. $7200. complete plus exhaust cost. Tuner said with D&D 2x1 160hp. Hmmm.
Excellent breakdown John, looks like that’s a no brainer the way you built up your bike. It makes amazing power and sounds absolutely bad ass!
Great info about the engines mate I am putting a 128 in my new 2020 fatboy here in Australia cheers craig
Six grand is for the 131 crate motor being that you have a 114 you could get the kit for a little over three grand with the harley warranty. That’s the way I went for my 2020 road glide special
My Harley dealer told me the total price including labor would be between $4500 and $5000. Am I getting taken?
@@howardstumpf-doc9462 sounds good. The bare Kit is around 3k another grand to install, you need an exhaust, tuner, dyno … my dealer says about 6k out the door
Im thinking the SE 131 with the cyclerama 512 cam instead of the screaming eagle one. Made good power even on a bike with true duals
Finally someone with some sense
I honestly think the best bang for the buck is the 107, 124 conversion. Zipper sleeper
WOW... My old 2003 Duce I had was modified with a S&S 124.. It made 135tq and 125hp... Woods 6 cam and gear drive.. I had a weber single throat carb on it... It got 51mpg on the highway and my city riding was 42+ mpg..... Cant say the newer HD's have anything on an old Twin Cam... I put over 130.000 miles on it before I sold it..
I’m going with the S&S 128 kit. I upgraded to a RS468, S&S cam plate and oil pump and all the goodies that come with that kit. I installed a Thundermax EFI and full TAB performance exhaust with 2.5 inch baffles. The bike runs great. I recently installed the Thundermax oil cooling fan. So far I like all my upgrades.
My 2019 cvo 117 with the s+s 475 and khrome werks exhaust made 119hp and 131tq. Just had a FM 128 done and it now makes 138hp and 150tq with the 475 cam. I chose to keep the 475 in my big bore because I love everything about this cam and it is the best sounding cam I’ve heard in an M8.
Nice, informative video! Yes, I agree, the S.E. 131 crate engine does not provide good value for the dollar; also, the S.E. “premium” lifters in these engines have a history of failed hyd. lifters causing catastrophic engine failure! I prefer the S&S 128 cu. in. kit for M8 engines with a 475G cam, billet lifter collars, cam plate and oil pump, and pushrods. CNC ported heads with a 62mm HPI throttle body really top this build off! Equally important for longevity is a Darkhorse crank, Trask billet clutch basket, and a high performance clutch. This combination is a Killer and the motor will last Forever! Thanks again for the video!
Well done John. Great info as I was considering the 131 build. Seems you found a better way
all the #'s on paper as any experienced rider knows does not mean anything as far as making your bike go like hell. it's the rider.but its a good comparison, and your right about $$$ and motors. nice review. keep em comming
I did the stage 2 s&s 475 and luv it! It's all the power and torque a man needs...
First of all great video!! 2nd. Great explanation of different performance parts and cost of the different builds.
I learned in my first bike build ( 2002 deuce) that do research’s do ask questions my 2016 SG 103 that was built up by the previous owner from bottom to top was a beast. But then I blew a valve spring at idle. ( to weak of a spring for the power I guess) i decided to put on the 110 stage 4 slip on kit. What a huge difference it made. My lower end is welded and balanced with S&S 585 torque cam. Although my #’s are at 105hp and 127fpt. I love the pull this thing has. The torque range is unbelievable as well.
Personally, torque is where it’s at. Nothing like having it as soon as you twist the wick.
well said it explains things well , we must remember the S&S 131 is pretty and probably higher quality made which hikes the price
I have a 18 RK special 107 with a 475 cam and it is a beast !! Honesty i was happy with the stock 107 plenty of power but after getting a deal on the install of a 475 cam a tuner and some pipes let me tell u it is a rocket ship, way too much power for any American road with speed limits. U can only go so fast on our roads and i just can't enjoy the speed potential of what I got let alone spending more unnecessary cash on a 128 upgrade to give me even more power i still can't enjoy makes no sense IMO but to each his own. And always remember the 107 has a short stroke and the short stroke will give u more throttle response then the long stroke and from what i was told thats why their getting those numbers on the 107's bumped up to 128's, and now u have a 128 rocket ship that u can't fly to its true height potential because of speed limits, stop lights, cars pulling out in front of ya and coppers with radars. I would rather do just the cam, tuner and pipes and save the extra cash and purchase a used dyna and now have 2 bikes I can enjoy. Thanks for sharing sir appreciate the intel.
The s&s 475 is hard 2 beat my dealership said, they were spot on!
Good video, I just did a M8 107 engine, I used S&S 124 big bore kit S&S lifters 475 cam and 64 mm intake and throttlebody my Dyno numbers are 128 hp. 140 # torque. And the cam sounds awesome
Exactly the info I was looking for, EXACTLY. Very easy to understand and follow you. No if, and, or buts. You covered it all and spelled it out. Thanks so much. I was just surfing and stumbled on this video. My lucky day. later .
John you did the right thing torque means more than horsepower torque is where you’re riding the bike most of the time horsepower is top end you’re absolutely right!
You are right about intial cost of the 131 set up but if you just change out the cam and use aftermarket tuner youll be in or near 150tq or hp. You have a crank and everything ready to go for more power with the 131 vs just doing a stage 2. Al depends are your end goals. My 2022 street glide with 114" stage 2 zippers, 472 cam, siwiki 2 into 1 full length exhaust, bigger throttle body/intake put down 128hp/129tq. Bike was blast to ride, plenty of power for a year, I just recently installed the 135" with zippers 552 cam. Just finished break in. Getting dyno this weekend for numbers
if your not worried about warranty with the 135 your going to get 150 +
Peter. From New Zealand.
Gidday mate. I have a 2020 lowrider s. 114cu. Been fitted wih a Bassani 2 into 1, S & S 475 cam and dyno tuned. It makes very similar power & torque numbers as your bike. I tend to ride in the higher rev range quite a lot so i just love this cam. The S&S 128 kit is also very popular out here. They get great numbers out of it. Love your vids mate. Keep them coming.
Cheers Peter
From down under.
This is great information. I have a 2017 CVO Street Glide (114), need more power, I like what you have put out. I'm going to get it done.
Thanks for the great video - I currently have a softail standard on order and was wondering what the best options are for the 107 as a base and it sounds like what you described with the 128 makes the most sense - in my opinion a bike with 140hp will be more than enough power and that torque figure is even more impressive. Seems to me like a 131 would make more power - but not really worth it for the money spent unless your looking for absolute bragging rights - the one thing I was wondering is how well the S&S gear driven cam would work on the M8 platform - i know of 1 person who went with that gear driven setup on a twin cam (on a 103) and absolutely loved it - anyone have any experience with the gear driven S&S setup for the M8 ?
Zippers, Tman, S&S, Fuel Moto 124 & 128 kits for around 6,000 to 7,000 will get the 135 to 145 hp and 150 to 160 ft lbs of torque. That is less than a 131 motor from Harley. Thanks for the info. Helped me make my mind up on the kits.
You can get so much out of an M8 motor with just a cam swap. I have the Red Shift 468 in mine and it’s plenty of power. Being in California you still can’t buy the 131, it has not passed CARB yet.
I have a 131 on my 2020 RGS and I'm in Crappifornia,,,but I also have a house in Idaho so it's reistered there!!,,,,LOVE IT!!!
Sweet brother all you see is everyone pushing the 131 . Glad I ran across your channel showing you don’t have to spend 8+ grand for a bad ass motor.
Hey this is Bill from Maryland. I have a 2022 Harley Davidson Road Guide, this is excellent news. I have done a Stage II with HD’s torque cam so it wouldn’t void my warranty. It gave the bike nice power on the take off and really good throttle response. From what I am gathering the S & S 475 w/tuner would really wake the bike up with out spending a ton of money in the engine. If you have any more advice I would appreciate it. Thanks again!
Hey Bill I just picked up the same bike. I'm also thinking about doing the stage 2 with a screaming eagle cam just to keep the warranty. What exhaust are using?
I'm from central pa, mountains and twisty two lane roads here. Torque is what I wanted. I put the woods 22x cam in. Stump pulling torque. No regrets
Definitely more value for the money. You got a better build and it sounds great!
FYI: you're comparison is apples to oranges, s&s 465 is closer in specs to the RS468 and the RS472 is closer in specs to the s&s 475 and then the dyno numbers favor Red Shift. I still like your posts keep up the good work! Thanx
“The dyno sheets do not lie.”
Yes they can. There are numerous little “tricks” that can alter dyno numbers.
Very nice breakdown, i new this from before have a UL-19 with s&s475 , that cam works so gr8, also tuned with TTS, stageII
Hey man,
I totally agree with you on the 128 kit verses the 131. I just put the 128 kit on my 2020 street glide. And I will tell you it is a beast, there’s nothing like the torque and horsepower when you’re out on the road the sound coming out of the Reinhardt racing exhaust is incredible as well. Let me know when you guys are out on the road and I would be happy to join you all for a ride.
Ride safe.
Michael
@@CYCLEFANATIX My pleasure John, and thank you for the great videos.
man, great video! you dropped a lot of knowledge for me and also throwing in the prices.. greatly appreciate it man.. i know the pricing will be a lil different for me here in texas..but defiently gives me an ideal. i just bought the 114 special street glide. the two tone silver and black. :)
Thank you for that. Now going for 128
I have 2020 Breakout 114 with the RS468 cam and love it . My numbers are 112/129. HP is just a calculation on the V twin. What drives a V twin is torque . The 475 having a little more HP means nothing . I didn’t go with the S&S 475 because the cam operates best with 11:1 compression or big more applications and the 468 is a true bolt in for 10:5:1 compression. I am about to get a 128 kit running 10/75:1 higher compression but not 11:1 because I’m keeping the 468 . The 475 is a good cam but you’ll get better out of it with a big bore kit .
John great review 👍, I was going to use the 475 S&S and switched back to the RS468 for low end toque 2020 RoadGlide limited heavy bike, since the HP doesn't kick in until after 5000. I then added the S&S 128, w/55mm intake and ended up with 135Tq at 2000rpm and peak 149.95 @ 4000rpm. 122HP @ 5000. W/ fullsac headers and S&S MK-45s. Working on my son's SGS now so debating on 475 vs. 468 for that build. STOCK MOTORS SUCK!!
@Jake Soriano. Did you still use the RS468 cam on the 128 build?
@@jasoningle43 Yes I did, I already had it in from the stage II, added the S&S 128 and SE 55 MM intake. I'm extremely happy with the low end torque.
@@jakesoriano1313 thank you. I'm curious to know if you have noticed any more or extra heat coming from the new 128? I know it's cooler months now, but my concern is getting the engine too hot especially in city, rally, traffic jam, stop and go 90 minutes to get 3 miles type of conditions.
@@jasoningle43 the heat on my bike is still the same as it was with the stage II, no difference between the 128. I also have a complete stock 2020 SGS w/114 rode the same route same day in the FL heat to check the difference in the heat. Both bikes felt about the same to me. 100 mile ride city/hwy. Also went to Daytona Beach last weekend with the 128, got stuck in a little bit of traffic for 30min and it wasn't too bad heat wise.
2019 road glide special, red shift 468, intake, d&d (2-1) and a thundermax pulling 120hp and 133ft lbs torque
My friend my friend Wills from Chicago built me a panhead 131 in it was the bomb I left everybody in the dust it had low top and it just kept climbing a climbing and climbing he geared it stroked it it was the best it was a monster
Good video in the process of doing this right now and was going to have Harley do it with screaming eagle parts stage one and two and definitely change my mind on What cam to use
The thing i dont like is the harleys with traction control have no tunes for them yet so adding power means zero cause the the traction control kicks in and limits any power gains unless you disable it which causes issues also
Great video! And superb advice. I totally agree with your choice. Something to consider for me too. Thanks! 👍👍 Drive safe.
Spot on John!! For me it’s all about the torque period... The new M8 is a very versatile motor and, just by adding a Cam, Heavy Breather ie:Stage 1 and, a good solid tune ....”Bang, Ka~Pow” You have a fast ass bike!! Always great videos.... Ride Safe Brother.... See ya on the next one man...
A cam and an air cleaner is not a “stage 1”.
I appreciate you sharing your experiences so we can all benefit. I have a 114 M8 with pipes and tune, but it doesn't sound like a Harley. So, some people suggest toque cams to get that sound. However, I'm learning that the only sound difference to be noticed is at idle. To really get a louder mean sound you need big bore kits. Do you agree?
The sound will be louder at idle and riding. More power and torque equals louder exhaust
My 2017 FLHSXE is pushing 115.20 HP & 127.93 ft-lb TQ.
S&S 475C
Fullsac Header
Two Brothers Exhaust
Custom Dyno
That's it. I have a buddy that spent $5k on engine work (he has the same bike), and he's got a whopping 2HP more than me.
Great info John. Got to be smart spending your money; more bang for the buck. Some people will buy the 131 just to say they have it!
I wish you had a place in Philly. I want to get my 107 done the right way and as soon as possible.
This makes alot of sense to me, I appreciate it very much! I have a 107 and wondering how more HP would you get with Port and polish heads? Yes or no on the head work? Enjoy your videos... Thanks!
Not to butt in but think of your engine as a pump. If your exhaust is restricted modifications upstream aren't as effective. Free flowing heads cant flow properly without air moving in and out. An aftermarket high flow air cleaner with no other modifications cant flow to its potential. So when we think of modifications we need to be mindful of the entire flow from front to back. Will a stock 107 displacement move enough air to need more flow from the heads? Can a cam make the difference? Just making huge flow from the heads and cam can actually snuff power numbers if the engine cant support it. I see guys mixing and matching parts with mixed results. They saw the best number from cam "A" and the best number from exhaust brand "b" but these were not tested together and may or may not support each other well. If I build a motor I get ahold of S&S and say heres what I'm looking to do.... what works with your build? I let them suggest my parts and ive never been disappointed.
We are getting 161 ft lbs and 157hp with our combo 131
What extras do you have on it???,,,,I have a 131 on my 2020 GRS and it has a 2 into 1 pipe,,,no dyno #'s yet,,,
George Ash I run Harley Davidson of Utica. My service department just finished up 2020 SGS with 131 kit. We used Woods cam and lifters and took it to our dyno guy. Pulled 161tq 157hp. Awesome package!
George Ash also have 2into1 Thunderheader exhaust on it.
There ya go,,,, now whos the boss?! Lol. Theres no replacement for displacement!
I have been saying that for a while 131 sounds bad ass but speed and power is not thier . Too much money no bang we have seen a few 131 get beat by 128 and a few metric muscle cruisers spank and 131 even with a chain conversions great 👍 vid very informative 👏
I'm doing all my research now or better yet have been. And I'm going to go with zippers sleeper. I've got a 17 RG standard 107 now,essentially a clean slat. I didn't want any bells and whistles because now I can make it my own period and not something from HD
Get a custom tune and catless pipes on the 131 and it smokes the 128, the problem is the screaming eagle tune
131 gets my vote. stay with the warranty for peace of mind, or drop in a Cycle Rama 540 cam to get 150 HP and 160 TQ with no head work needed.
dude I just want to see that 131 in there
Hey John, just for those with big wallets and little tech..... A huge techy question that maybe you can forward on toward your next vid......Can you explain to them in layman's terms, what the diff is between the 2 cams' " what rise and return rates are and spring return rates" so that they can see the diff ..... and don't forget the lapse-rate, ( the time the valve is seated for heat removal... so you don't melt the valve stem)....?? So if your Dyna tuner can do that..... Then this is your next vid to think on.... The next one would be ... " What is a map and why do I need one. .... Etc, etc. Thanks, Stay Safe .Ciao.
Have you checked out Moonshine Harley's 485 cam? Zipper's Redshift 472 is another good cam. Both work well on 114 and117 HD . So many good choices per application
Beautiful you couldn’t say any better info than that
Thanks man really appreciate this video I did have a lot ? U Answerd in this video I will be calling Dave
I got that same hat when I bought my bike. They gave it to me for “free”
People just need to do their homework like you did .Harley Davidson will sell you whatt they want it's up to you to know what you want. Just remember though if you want to keep your warranty it's usually only harley parts. Except maybe different pipes
that's why if you use all the screaming eagle parts your not going to get big numbers out of the 131especially the tuner
This is great info ,thanks. I got a 2020 softail slim........hummmmm
I'm really thinking about changing my 96 to a 120r instead of the 96-110
oil cooler and fan high compression on the 120 r but big power
But put a cam and injectors in it and 150/150+. Pluse you have 2 motors
I was going to do 131 screaming eagle stage 4 kit but I think I’m just going to do fuel moto 2-1 exhaust intake and then do a woods 22xe cam instead should be plenty for me
I got 137 hp /151 torque from my 131” with a D&D billet cat and trask air intake
Put a cam and chrome werks with the 131" and... see ya!
Good info I've been mulling over the s&s 475 or the woods 22x or the redshift 468 I think they are all comparable
S&S 475 cam coming soon shit sounds sick from what I've seen.
2020 Low Rider S
John, Thank you for sharing this very important information. I was thinking of upgrading to a 131 screaming eagle bolt on kit for my 2020 SGS, but after some thinking and consulting with someone very knowledgeable decided to go with a Stage 2 S&S 475 Cam, krome werks 2 into 2 full header high performance exhaust and a TTS turner. Looking forward to doing business with Dave at JD cycle works.
One of your best videos
This just the beginning for 131 You got take that in the Dyno queens input 😬
Makes perfect sense. Great info.
I agree 100% with your build , good video and content,I would do the same thing and save money.
Great info John, good to know before I will upgrade my cvo
Good information. Subscribed.
Not sure why anyone would spend 40k CDN on a new 114, then to turn around and completely void their warranty. I was traveling to British Columbia the other day, rented a 2020 Road Glide with the 107, and that thing moved. I'd personally only buy a Harley M8 out of warranty to throw a S&S 128 kit.
Shinedown_74 not me. Voided mine 4 months after new. Man these things run so much faster off the line than stock that they r so much more fun to ride. Its shameful Harley has to put a potato in the exhaust and use a seriously whippy cam. Ill take my chances. If it breaks then fix it.
@@michaelofiara9732 what you using bro?
Shinedown_74 s and s sidewinder 2 into 1 exhaust. HD ventilator ac. Powervision tuner. Woods Knight Prowler 22 x cam going in bike in a few weeks. Still have 10 months left on what wouldve been a warranty.
Thank you
New subscriber and
New rider.
Its funny i thought the stage 2 on my 96 is bad ass. Woods 222 cam, V@A Pro pripe, Power Vision tune. I never drove any of these big bore bikes, or built motors. Must be crazy 😮
Great explanation John
Subscribed
@@CYCLEFANATIX u got me looking into some GO FAST parts mane, I can’t wait now
With a reputable shop you can get a performance warranty through Discount Esp
Great info.
QUESTION;
With this engine work, will bike still be reliable enough to travel cross country averaging 80 mph all day?
Thank you
A dyno is just a tool can be cranked down tighter less less free play on the wheel you can show a stock smart car with 300 hp it’s just a tool for tuning
I commented to another TH-camr that a good stage 2 can get similar numbers than the 131 and this was his reply (copy paste from the reply):
"It does but still 120 hp on a base tune isn't bad. I agree you can do a cam and put out close to those numbers but there's nothing like saying I got a 124 or 131 instead of a 114 with a cam."
Somebody has a cubic inch complex...
Hello from Russia!
Thanks man.
So now try a 131 stage 4 with the cam your using or a 117 with the same cam and it will produce more HP & Torque than yours.
Got there about 930 am to crowded sorry I missed you went up 9w for a ride nick from Staten Island
Stage 2 💯
Thanks, great info.
Should you buy the 131…. No…. Unless you are racing the bike.. or you have cash to burn…There is some valid reasons to go with a stage 2.. I guess…. I will probably…. But before I start spending money on the engine… I’m buying safety.. an ultra cool oil filter and other upgrades to keep the motor functioning properly ,, better lighting ..
Well when you blow up a 128" kit in 6 miles they offer you the 131" kit for a couple hundred you take it Under warranty.
I have a stage 2 in my 107 i am going to zippers preforments and get me a 128 muscle kit.
If I do anything else to mine it’s gonna be a 131 crate motor. But most likely I’ll end up just getting something else altogether.
I’d like to see the numbers on a stock motor vs same motor after a power vision tune (or any decent non epa tune).