Only complaint about this fight is the su 57 has a bigger rcs by how much who knows but to set them all the same is bit foolish out of all the air craft that are stealth the f22 would be the best rcs
@@thebu383 I think the advantage of F-22 is its all aspect stealth which afaik F-35 doesn't have, but advances in material science and computational modeling benefits the F-35 as it was a later project. So who knows.
@@mad_man_savage452 right, those exhaust nozzles are not stealthy at all lol, although the su-57 does have a pretty unique maneuverability edge with it's nozzle swivel but in the modern world that's only going to get you so far when the enemy sees you long before you see them and do a fancy twirl
from what i remember reading, the stealth capabilities of the su57 is only front on stealth. it doesn't have much from anywhere else except from in front of it, so if it cranks or goes cold it should appear on radar
I fly in VR, decent VR too (Reverb G2), and can attest that visual spotting and SA in general is really hard. Over and above the resolution disadvantage, the owl-neck that Track IR provides just can't be done in VR.
3000x3000 per eye in G2 or Quest 2 is enough to be on par with fullhd monitors. And for owl neck you have VR neck saver. Basically if you have better or equal card than 3080ti then you can be competitive in DCS (especially in 2.5.6 version). In IL2 you will actually be deadly with such config to any of 2D pilots when the rest is equal.
@Angry Russian I have a g2 and track ir. There is no comparison for ease of use. Track ir and 2d zoom is ten times easier and more clear than 3d. And I use a 3080. Itll be awesome when vr gets a 4 to1 head track ratio similar to track ir. Cuz the hell with twisting like a pretzel to check 6😄
@@lat78610 For sure. But for competition with current DCS engine fullhd gives better spotting than 4K because these black pixels are just bigger. 3000x3000 per eye gives same result in VR. Of course we are far away from VR clarity being on par with 2D 4K displays, it will be many more years before we are there.
A beyond-visual-range missile (BVR) is an air-to-air missile (BVRAAM) that is capable of engaging at ranges of 20 nmi (37 km) or beyond. You guys were actually merging... in a sense. Turn on both radars and see which one actually sees the other aircraft first, gets a lock-on and fires a missile. If defending from a missile lock, see which plane is superior in out-maneuvering the incoming missile. Redo!
As explained at length, they can't see each other at that range. They're also two aircraft with classified specifications, especially radar cross section. Assigning either of them detection ranges would be arbitrary.
As mentioned in the video, in DCS, they won't able to see each other even with radar on unless close range~5 miles Once you turn the radar on, it show it on RWR, which gives your position away and you don't want that.
@@FuckYouYouFuck then it's not a true BVR video. BVR is when you actually get a missile lock by utilizing your radar and sensors from a great distance. Not when you have to "visually" see the enemy aircraft.
@@s87343jim then why does GS have BVR videos? My point is that the title of this video is wrong. BVR engagements are done at great ranges. It's a test of the aircrafts radar, sensors, countermeasures and pilot skill!
@@Ghostfaace22 "then it's not a true BVR video. BVR is when you actually get a missile lock by utilizing your radar and sensors from a great distance. Not when you have to "visually" see the enemy aircraft." There's your answer then... It's not a BVR fight because these two, at the very least in DCS, can't fight BVR. Neither can get quality weapons lock on the other, forcing them to fight at Visual range.
Hey GR, if you don't mind, I'd like to suggest something for the wargames series: USN SAG (surface action group) consisting of one Tico and one Burke vs one or more squadrons of Tu-22s (1 squadron ~10 aircraft) in the black sea w/ realistic tactics. Some tips to help with realism: 1. Have the SAG run away from whatever is attacking it! Reducing the closing speed by even 30 knots buys more time for the SAG to intercept missiles! Better yet, have them be running towards something. Maybe if they survive long enough they can reach the air cover of a nearby carrier? 2. If you're going to use more than one squadron of Tu22s, have them come in in multiple waves or directions. Maybe have one squadron start in mid-air over the Black sea while another two start on the ground in Crimea? Also, maybe add in a fighter squadron if you end up getting a huge formation. 3. While the SAG runs away, the CSG shouldn't be sitting idle! They should be steaming full speed ahead to link up with their embattled comrades! Maybe this could give you and the boys an excuse to hop in F-14s or F/A-18s and try to intercept some of the missiles before they hit the SAG. I hope you like this one GR, love the content and a speedy recovery!
After what we are seeing in Ukraine, it would go: F22 would keep shooting, the SU57 keep bursting in a balls of fire. Here you have it, short and concise.
Amazingly people will still say the Su57 will be dead before the merge... 🤣 Its only logical when your both stealthy, things end up closer *unless* you have some fancy Russian high tech VHF radar to give you a vector. They aren't stupid, they built the -57 to be *stealthy enough* to not be detected by radar outside if it's electro optical range as well as the L-band which may possibly also be being used offensively at shorter ranges. The aircraft is designed with dogfighting in mind when it comes to facing an f22 or F35.. For my money I dont think I'd wanna be facing one IRL.... id say its always going to the 50/50 with the F22 and its possible the DIRCM Laser turrets could blind the DAS on the F35... Lasers are great at burning optical sensors afterall. Either way the Su57 is a very capable aircraft and its shown itself to be able to push the limits of even what the Su35s could do , even without the new engines. I just can't fanboy over the US equipment and say it would never lose... I think the pieces are in place that the Su57 has the advantage in locations where it has Ground Based assets to assist. Assume AWACS will be Neutralized by 400km range missiles and won't play much of a part near the front lines in guiding fighters Hope it never happens, but if it does, u won't be surprised to see the non US fighters being competitive. There are a LOT of interesting aircraft around these days.
I just have an awkward feeling with how we see the level of maintenance put into Russian equipment, what is the likelihood of all the sensors and arrays working on the SU-57. Even though there are only 3 currently available to be maintained, how likely is it that the skin of the aircraft is perfectly cared for and the pilots are experienced in fighting other stealth aircraft when they only have 2 other planes to test against (that we know of). I mean, look at the Moskva, it had a full 3-d array of radar and tracking available to detect threats coming from any vector yet it couldn't defend against a couple Ukrainian missiles. Sure, it could have been the crew not acting appropriately in the situation, but who is to say the Russian pilot in a SU-57 that has never fought a seasoned stealth fighter from the US will make the correct decision either?
@@lachlanhudson7404 No conclusive evidence even exists the Moskva was hit by *any* missiles. What was visible was indicative of an uncontrolled fire and catastrophic munition cook off in the SA-N-6 VLS area as well as the 2 CIWS amidships below the bridge. Regardless of that, the SU-57 is designed with a skin which is tough enough to allow a Journalist to stand on top of the aircraft in street shoes. Something which wouldnt ever be allowed with the F35 or F22 because their coatings are apparently not very durable . Watch the Combat approved SU-57 documentary for some insight into the composite honeycomb Skin the aircraft has. Finally there are *at least* 6 serial production aircraft (one crashed) and 12 prototype testbeds , but a lot more than 3. The actual number is probably more than 6 by this time as that number was December last year.
@@CrayonEater255 It's designed to force the fight into a place where the Russians believe it will have a Decisive advantage . Not a bad design at all given these stealth aircraft are unlikely to be detected at BVR ranges, the only way they are ever likely to meet is WVR, likely the IRST, or DAS passive detection, or otherwise BVR may happen from Loyal Wingman drones providing the detection and passing the info via datalink. Either way the extreme maneuverability can allow notching and evasive maneuvers, those increase survivability at all ranges.. not to mention having active DIRCM countermeasures as well as decoys, chaff and flares. DIRCM is a practical use of an IR laser to burn out optical seekers on IR missiles. Lasers *are* very good at destroying or degrading optical sensors , even home grown lasers using Nintendo light guns will ruin a camera sensor, thats an idea of how low power they can be and still be effective. I wouldn't underestimate the SU-57s mix of capabilities, especially given its designed to operate as a part of an integrated system defending Russian airspace. In that capacity it is without doubt a very effective platform.
I think in reality EW is a more important factor in this type of fight. AESA radar generally has frequency hopping functionality to provide LPI i.e. the RWR can't see it clearly. modern radars can also be used to jam or spoof the opponent's sensors.
LPI is in no way an AESA feature, but a marketing term invented to make some c__p sound more sophisticated. Frequency hopping radars have been in service since 1950's. Also, modern RWRs have a relatively simple way of seeing them.
Virtually everything you did here is Wrong. There is NO data establishing the Su-57 coatings come anywhere close to the radar absorption of F-22s. The Raptor's AESA radar can pick up targets at >110 miles. The AIM-120D can kill them from >100 miles. The tactics, the "rules of engagement" you created here are ridiculous. You're demanding the F-22 fight w/ it's hands tied, while assigning powers to the Su-57 that don't exist. FYI... J-20s are NOT "5th gen" nor "stealth". They're pretenders.
I find white and the gray the US military uses really hard to see mostly due to haze near the ground. I could see gray being slightly better on a really clear day and white being better with any haze at all.
It’s an interesting test, but I highly doubt the Chinese plane has anywhere near the RCS of the other 3 planes…also, i’m not completely sure the Su-57 is that close to the F-22…..out of the 2 remaining, I’m not sure which one would be better, the F35 or the F222…probably close, but I doubt they are the same.
@@Anarchy_420 The F-35 would benefit from its newer systems and its degree of integration but it's hard to imagine that it could beat the F-22 in pure stealth.
@@trolleriffic The F-22 has received a slew of upgrades making it just as relevant as The F-35, I'd go into details lol but I don't feel like it. However all you need to do is do a very lil bit of research on it and you'll see what I'm talking about, they're calling it The Super Raptor on line👍
There is quite a few consesions here making this less than realistic. Firstly both aircraft would be supporten by ground or air radar. You might think that a air radar would not se them anyway... well.. here is where it get complicated. Yes, a f22 is very stealthy from the front side, but from the rear... very much less so. The is no chanse the su57 is as stealthy as f22.. not even F35 is that. When looking a Quick glanse su57 and f22 looks kind of simular. But lookning at the details, the diffrance is rather large. The most obvius is that the engine lack radar sheelding. This will make it pretty much totaly non stealth from the backside. But there is also other detals that glassig geometri and material. There is aslo diffrances in radar. F22 uses a phase aray radar, su57 uses a squashplate radar. The phase aray radar can beamform the other cant. The power of the f22 radar is... well effectivly a order of magnutue higher. Also beam froming slows the F22 to search with out being detected. I would proboly go do far to say tjst the su57 is a aircraft in a stelth suite.. bit not really a stealth aircraft. There is really no gen 5 festures of it what so ever and its more of a propaganda tool than a effectice fighter.
If the Ukraine War has taught us anything it's that Russia and formerly the USSR have been exaggerating their weapons capabilities far beyond their actual ability and their propensity towards building something like a stealth fighter platform and labeling it "comparable" to America's current best and widely adopted stealth fighter platforms is not just a mild exaggeration but in reality a hilarious lie that belies reality. Even when Russia/China do make some decent piece of tech they either lack the ability to fuel, support, arm, or maintain and repair it or; and this has come into sharp relief in Russia's current conflict in Ukraine, they lack the command and control, battlefield experience, and understanding of their own tech capabilities at a leadership level to even make best use of what they do have. I wonder if Putin would have engaged Ukraine if he had known it would reveal Russia's true combat abilities and that in turn would lead to most of the western world to a chuckling sort of sense of relief... that we had built Russia up to be this boogeyman and in reality their combat capabilities are kind of a joke compared to the west in general and America specifically. We're laughing at you Russia. And when we can sort your nukes out... And that day is coming, we're gonna sort you out too (I should emphasize I'm talking to the Russian oligarchs and communist party operators like Putin... regular Russians are definitely complicit just as we Americans are complicit in the wrongdoings of our government but regular Russians should welcome western enforced Regime Change as it might be the only shot they have at an actual representative democracy which while by no means perfect is far better than the corporate crony oligarchy with shades of autocratic dictatorship that runs their country now).
I am now hoping for J-20 vs Felon and Raptor lol. No, Grim Reaper, we are never satisfied. Maybe, you can try making 2 teams of player go against each other with stealth fighters, guided by awacs and data link.
@@seaturtleOlympiads no, they didn't. They only fired missiles. With multiple enemys, maybe you could jutify the gun, since they only carried 2 IR-missiles, witch were the only one used here, but otherwise, they didn't use it. I am also not a friend of the Eurofighter not having a gun, but it has its points and wasn't used here
I read that one of the advantages of the f-35 is in joint air to air operations with 4th gen fighters like F15s. I don't remember why but I think it had to do with the data sharing and/or EW. So, it might be fun to explore tactics in a traditional 4th gen fighter BVR engagement with 5th gen fighters in the mix.
Sukhoi’s own patent claims Su-57 having a design RCS between 0.1 and 1 m^2. While the turret of the 101KS-V IRST is rotated backwards in cruise configuration, and its rear hemisphere is covered with a radar-absorbing coating to cover its RCS signal. That’s comparable to a clean Super Hornet and it shouldn’t be a surprise when Su-57 follows many of the same RCS-reduction measures such as using radar blockers to hide the engine face instead of an actual serpentine duct. ‘It’s not just Su-57 being less stealthy than F-35 (-40 dBsm) - it has a 1,000 times bigger RCS. Since detection range is proportional to the 4th root of RCS, a 1,000 times bigger RCS equates to 5.6 times greater detection range. And this is after giving Su-57 every benefit of doubt, the F-35’s RCS is very likely closer to -50 dB.’ ‘The F-35 will be enjoying almost 6 times greater detection range against Su-57. The difference is so huge that Su-57 will be hopelessly outclassed. We see this time and again in Red Flags and Northern Edge with F-35 having 28-1 kill ratio against modern 4th gen. aircraft backed by AWACS and SAMs. The enormous difference in detection range from Stealth is the primary factor for such a lopsided kill ratio.
Total propaganda. You cant extrapolate performance vs Su-57 by performance vs 4th gen aircraft in situations designed to be favorable for the F-35. Fact is stealth is more about RAM than shaping. Radars WILL see and track F-22s and F-35s. The only hope to actually be stealthy is RAM which the Russians are WAY ahead in...then there is IRST which the Russians are also WAY ahead in. Chinese are probably catching up as are the Europeans.
@@Internetbutthurt … actually NO … Ufimtsev the Soviet/Russian physicist and mathematician, considered the seminal force behind modern stealth aircraft technology. In the 1960s he began developing equations for predicting the reflection of electromagnetic waves from simple two-dimensional and three-dimensional objects. RAM was invented during WW ll to cover the radar masts on ships, if you only had to paint a plane with RAM, we’d of had stealth planes 7 decades ago!
The RCS of the SU-57 is equivalent to that of a Super Hornet in a clean configuration. That's 1000 times bigger than the F-35 RCS. The F-35 has a RCS 10 times bigger than the F-22. You're lumping apples with oranges and comparing them to bananas.
@@arbiterodie7685 Do a little bit of research. Oh- and seeing how there are only 6-7 deployable Felons in existence, and 'ol Putin soon wont have a pot to piss in- there wont be any more made. So good luck with airframes you got, cuz you're gonna need em, comrade.
@@matsv201 im sorry but that does not make any sense. A canopy bow like the one that the Su57 has would only contribute to enlarging the radar signature of the plane
@@emmata98 In theory you could model it but it would be quite a challenge and with so much of the detail of these planes being classified, you'd still end up with a range of estimates and would have to pick what you thought was likely to be right.
I believe a comment was made previously that stealth is a "hack" and it just changes the cross sectional area to a fixed value. So the RCS is not modeled with angle. Which is too bad as I understand it, that's a major difference between the F22/F35 and these other stealth aircraft.
@@Jgalaski8438 You're not wrong but it's a little more complex than that. The F35 has a smaller frontal RCS whereas the F22 has a smaller rear RCS. I cant speak for the Su57 nor J20 though, just don't know enough about them.
Mosquito VS Pucara F-4 Phantom VS A-4 Skyhawk F-15 STOL/MTD VS F-16I Sufa MB-339 Aerimacchi VS Viggen T-45 Goshawk VS F-14 Tomcat MIG-28 VS MIG-29 P-47 VS Super Tucano AV-8 Harrier VS MIG-23 Flogger F-86 Sabre VS SU-25 FrogFoot MIG-19 VS MIG-21 Please fly the Planes on the left😁✌
Stealth sucks at Su57, that was the very reason why India baled out of the Su57 development program. In these mods you can do what ever you want, no attachment to reality. Both planes are classified
F22 is said to have a frontal RCS of .0001m2, or the size of a marble. But who really knows? It's definitely got a stealth edge over the SU-57 just due to tighter tolerances, and they've done really well reducing its IR signature. However Russia definitely seems to have gotten the hang of it, looking at the SU-75. It looks like a much tighter aircraft when it comes to panel fitment. The SU-57 has incredible sensor technologies though. The L band radars in the wings are interesting. I'm curious as to how well they work due to their small antennas. I bet the side facing AESA radars would come in handy in a situation like this. If anyone is curious about what makes the SU-57 tick, Millennium7* has an amazing amount of information on it. Probably more than anywhere else on TH-cam.
I think something often overlooked is the purpose of the stealth. The F22 has to defeat systems like s300 to do its job whereas the Su57 just has to get past smaller less powerful airborne radars. They're both great aircraft, but only for their respective airforces.
20:40 maybe because the ground reflects more light and generally is lighter than a plane? Also in War Thunder every plane is darker, than the ground (could be not a modelled colour on the distance though), so a lighter plane should help with that
in real life, the Raptor is 250 times smaller than the (one) operational SU-57. The second 57 was delivered in Jan of 21 and crashed one week later due to engine failures. just FYI ...really love your channel. Can you do a simulation of the Israeli attack on the nuclear reactor heavy water facility against IRAQ that took place in the 1980s? that would be epic -Thanks from TEXAS
@@Struktualnyj Well since you are so sensitive ...5 Raptors out of 176 since 1995 8 F-35's out of 1348 . (3 prototypes) 5 operational SU-57 1 of 2. since Jan 29, 2010. Russia built 2 planes in 12 yrs, at this rate by 2034 Russia will build another two with a total of three with 2 operational. LMFAO
The front control surfaces on the 57 look like they'd mess up and enlarge the front view RCS. The IR sensor is also sticking out like a sore thumb as well.
@@sae1095hc it just has poor manufacturing and the seems are really really bad, its as visible as any other gen 4 aircraft practically. too bad, it's a nice looking plane.
@@e.s.5529 I thought Russia had like 9 prototypes, what about those? Didn't some of those have malfunctions? And the F-35 is more than enough to handle the Su-57, so not too worried about it. What concerns me most is chinese 5th gen aircraft. Not because of quality, but moreso because of the rate they can produce them at.
IRL, the Su-57 is somewhat stealthy from the front, slightly stealthy from the sides, and not stealthy at all from the back. There is no way it is even close to an F-22, unless the Raptor was sabotaged somehow. Mounting EXTERNAL stores, does count as sabotage, but the F-22 is still far stealthier than the Su in its clean configuration. Now, STUPIDLY setting the RCS equal is complete BS, and is rigging the "simulation".
Something I’ve been curious about with stealth planes. I’ve heard the comparison that the radar signature is comparable to a bird. Wouldn’t it be possible to program the radar to ignore the rest but focus on the “bird” flying at 500+KTAS??
That what they try to do. But the challenge is that the signal is so weak, that it's basically noise. The signal spreads out over a distance, a tiny return has to be detected, but the return also spreads out over the distance on it's way back to the radar. So the radar return is really small. In 2 dimensions, think rings on water, from the radar, which then has to pick up on the rings returning from the target. But in 3 dimensions the rings spread even more.
@@lordsqueak ahhhh okay, that makes sense then. I was curious as to how stealth was still effective IF the “look for supersonic birds” method actually worked. My assumption was also that they might use some sort of AI algorithm to sort through then noise…
True and untrue. At best they have the radar signature of a bird. (I doubt the SU-57’s RCS is that small) but as soon as the come from any angle that isn’t straight on it increases. The stealth is just to make the operator think twice about what he’s picked up.
You failed to test the actual BVR capabilities. You turned the scenario into a dogfight by acquiring visuals instead of turning your radars on and using them to find eachother. the RCS for the f22 is ~ 0.0001 (m squared) in certain aspects so i would set it to 0.01, while sukhoi has stated the su57's RCS is 0.3-0.4 (m squared). then, the rule is... BEYOND VISUAL RANGE.... meaning you both have to turn your radars on and i would start 200miles out or further and see which plane gets picked up first. youve cheated the system by going into a visual fight
Stealth wasnt a focal point of the Su-57s development, it was a byproduct. And it wasnt optimized for stealth either. According to analytics and simulations using accurate modeling of the plane its RCS is something like 0.3-0.08m² depending on the area presented to the radar. The F-22 however has an absolutely tiny RCS at a maximum of 0.5cm² or 0.01-0.0001m². Essentially with the F-22 you are trying to track a 1cm ball bearing traveling at mach 1.2 for most of it's time in the skies. The Felon is much easier to track and see and that's been figured out based on accurate computer models and simulations by independent sources.
It's not only the question of bigger (and more powerful) radar, but also its wave-length and other variables. I believe AVACS aircrafts use longer wave-lengths, such as S- or L-band, for their radars. This should allow for better results against stealth jets, compared to fighters equipped with X-band fire control radars.
@@Internetbutthurt well you can say that, buuuut according to Sukhoi’s patent, the SU-57’s frontal RCS (its stealthiest) is 0.1m^2. A clean configured F/A-18 Super Hornet has a frontal RCS of 0.1m^2. Btw the F-22 has an RCS of 0.001-0.0001m^2 which is literally 1000x stealthier, we also now that through developments in RAM technology, the F-35 is stealthier than the F-22.
@@Jab_Air no the quoted F-22 RCS is from one angle, it is not an average or realistic number. The Russian figure is closer to reality and it does not include the effectiveness of RAM. The Russians would also not give you the true and exact figure because this would be a state secret.
@@Internetbutthurt first off, the 0.1m^2 RCS of the SU-57 IS from the frontal aspect, second, you can find this information in Sukhoi’s own patent. Btw the 0.1m^2 RCS of the SU-57 is with RAM coating, something the actual SU-57s flying around don’t have.
@@Jab_Air For starters if you believe Sukhoi is going to make publicly available exact figures on what would be a state secret ive got shares in a bridge to sell you. The Russians are deliberately extremely vague about figures on such things because there is no benefit in giving specific information. The figure in the patent is most definitely an average value as it doesnt give away the RCS of any one facing, and the average is going to be affected by the rear facing which is clearly less stealthy - the frontal RCS will be less than .1 and this is not inclusive of RAM. Cite your evidence where it explicitly states that it includes RAM. Seems to me like you are just trying to convince yourself. If you knew where to look you'd find a good technical analysis of the PAK-FA by a radar engineer and it isnt on you tube.
We THINK they are roughly the same but the events over the last month prove it's probably not close. Russia built 3?? And 1 crashed already? No coating, radar is probably ok, engines are ok but they got zero money to build more or develop it. Their pilots got like 8 hours a month flying time which is AWFUl as well. I'd even put an F16 or F15ex up against the SU57 at this point. I just can't take their claims seriously right now.
Very difficult to pick out bandits visually with current VR headsets. Maybe with one of those $5000 Varjo VR headsets you'd be comparable but with an index or quest it's a lot harder. That said though the experience is fantastic.
I think new engine for DCS will solve this issue, actually in DCS 2.5.6 with 3080ti or better it's already pretty good, I can see everything I need. And IL2 is perfect on spotting already and 3000x3000 resolution for G2 or Q2 is enough to ID well.
I guess this comment is for Grimm... I guess that’s your tag name or your call sign. This is in reference to your mapping that you’ve done for the X 56 which I’ve downloaded and I greatly appreciate. however, you don’t have a key to that so nobody knows...as an example where you’ve key bind your flaps. so wow yes I greatly appreciate the work that you put in and that you’ve offered all the other F-16 drivers. could you provide us with a map so we actually know... where the flaps are bound to...along with all the others so I appreciate it thanks
I understand you wouldn't normally want to open your weapons bays cause it would break your stealth but since both have their radars off it doesn't really matter.
@@Rampant16 how do you think it gets an IR lock before firing a missile? The nose of the missile is extended out from the aircraft when the door is open. Look at pictures on Google. Since they are not turning on their radars having the doors open doesn't matter for stealth anyway.
@@merlinbarlow AIM-9X has "lock-on after launch". The missile communicates with the aircraft via data link and only acquires a target after being fired.
@@Rampant16 I'm not saying he can't do that just why not stick the nose out and use it's sensor. He clearly is locking before launching because he gets tone and then fires. Also he has nothing on data link in this situation because his radar is off, enemy radar is off, and there is no AWACS
Wow.... I just can't figure out what cooler, the birds, or the redundancy of the nullification. The pure joy of DCS, because it's all brand new to me, I don't even play it yet... but coming back to this video, It's literally military intelligence at in its best oxymoronic form.
They should add a skin for the f-22 in this with that new chrome or polised aluminum thats been seen, it looks pretty sick. But tbh once these are refitted with some of the f-35 features, better radar, new stealth panels instead of the paint. I cant see anything touching the raptor for a while. It may only have 2d vectoring, but it has amazing stealth, and interesting engine placement, if u notice its intakes start very early on in the airframe toward the nose. Compared to a f-18 or somthing. This lets the engines sit more center in the plane putting the thrust almost hidden, the way the vectoring works in conjuction with there placement and the tails is impressive. This engine placement also lets the raptor hide its rear heat signature much better.
Where do you get aircraft like F-22, F-35 and so on. They are not on steam and can't find them on DCS official webpage either. Also, can steam players play multiplayer with non-steam players. I regret buying my DLC's on steam instead of from their webpage since modules are not compatible between steam and non-steam version.
They're unofficial mods which means they're created by amateurs for fun. Some mods are up there with official modules in terms of realism and detail, but many others like the F-22 and Su-57 are quite inaccurate and you can tell how they've been hacked together. Since radar cross section and IR emission isn't modelled properly in DCS anyway, it's a bit difficult to do an accurate stealth plane, and that's on top of the problem that all the really useful information is classified.
@@grimreapers I must be getting old, I stared at the links for "ages" without seing it, until I finally saw it just under the timestamps. I started from useful links and worked my way down over and over again. My bad. Btw: Thank you for great content guys. Grim Reapers (specially CAP) always manage to put a smile on my face
Major problem with this is that it's well known that the felon hasn't achieved the same level of stealth as the f-22 so making them equal isn't accurate
They both are detectable on radar with a low enough frequency. Invisibility is less of the point it's more for not being able to get a weapons lock. SU 57 has comparable radar "Invisibility" where it counts. Front and side.
@@carlosandleon I don't agree. The weapon pylons alone and their coating game is nowhere even near the US. I get that RCS is impossible to eliminate and the the main goal is to be too be too difficult to be locked up on but if you can attain and get launch parameters before your opponent every little bit counts. The engagement will be BVR so it really is who "sees" who first. The felon's RCS is ONLY good from head on. So as soon as they're not head on you have a lock so long as you're pointed hot. And AWACs will ensure you're pointing hot. They're just not built to the same level when it comes to stealth. Now the Russians have better thrust vectoring and their missile game is good so I'm not saying one is better than the other overall. Just saying you can't have them as equals in stealth because they aren't. By a significant amount.
The F22 has a radar cross section as a bee. A small bee. The F35 of a golf ball. The SU-57 Not so much. The info is out there, easy to find. The SU-57 from the rear isn’t stealthy at all. Have no idea on the J20.
So. Here's an idea for 5th gen... one side defends a fixed point on the ground while the other attacks. But have several PvP on each side. You can also include AWACS and Patroit/S400 on the defense.
Can't wait for the Raptor upgrade he was talking about that it has in real life, Real F-22 has much lower IR from it's concealed thrusters while The SU-57 is lacking in this area as it's thrusters are nowhere near as stealthy/IR as The Raptor's
Is aspect modeled in the rcs calculation at all? In reality an F-22 is something like -40dB sm head on but becomes +40dB sm if it shows the normal of its planform.
To launch the SU-57 Fox 3's, you need to LA override and then fire. I have found in the latest Cubanace update that the AE's work and track but the R-77Ms do not track.
Where do you find the update from CubanAce? My Su-57 hasn’t been working since a few patches ago. I’d love for it to work again, but can’t get it to. Any info would be super helpful. Not sure if it matters, but I have a boatload of other mods as well. Even having it in my mods folder wouldn’t let the game open, after deleting some of my mods I got it to open with the Su-57, and can even load it out in mission editor , but when I go to actually fly it gives me the “thinking” spinning wheel and keeps loading, only to have to task manager out of DCS (open beta).
@@TheGranicd no. Even Sukoi's own claims state this. Frontal RCS is comparable to a Super Hornet and rear is likely worse. I do not see your reasoning to respond by questioning RCS of the Felon.
@@davidporter7051 Thats mentioned in regarding to patent claim. I take US and Russian claims with grain of salt and as producer propaganda. RQ180 was also stealth yet Iran picked it up...117 was stealth then 1 got downed and 2 more got hit according to US.
The real story here is that the F22 will be benefitting from at least 3 possible outside detection systems and radio silence where the SU57 will have none of that help and the radios will probably not be working properly. The F22 will therefore acquire the SU57 well beyond visual range, launch 2 missiles, turn for home, take a piss, have a bite of power bar and contemplate the meaning of life as the SU57 pilot craps himself, over-G's the airframe, and winds up walking home if he is very, very lucky.
The real story here is than in 2022, America is a racialized shithole country preoccupied with anal sex and other social maladies. Things have deteriorated noticeably since the early 2000s and will continue to do so in the foreseeable future. All that the Chinese and Russians need to do at this point is to wait for a decade or two. Military tech is almost irrelevant.
@@CrayonEater255 It is irrelevant if your country is totally pussified like Canada. Don't the Chinese own like half of Vancouver by now? Not a single shot was fired. The truckers seem like a fine bunch, though, which gives me some hope.
@@super-maneuverability592 Russia can't even beat Ukraine, how the hell do they stand a chance against USA? Our technological advances are 25 years ahead of Russian tech, and for them to catch up, we'd have to slow down our R&D progress speed by 40% for at least 5 decades. Russia's best bet is their SU-75, which still lacks a real body
Giving the SU-57 the same radar cross section as an F-22 is incredibly disingenuous. The SU-57’s cross section will be nowhere near as small as the F-22’s. Not only does it have moving surfaces on the front of its wings, but it also has a giant IR sensor right in front of the cockpit. Either of those features would ruin their RCS, but they have both. Sukhoi even says the SU-57 has a RCS between 0.1 and 1 meter squared. The F22’s RCS can be as low as 0.0001 meters squared in a head on engagement. A thousand times bigger RCS means the SU-57 can be detected at over 5x the distance as the F-22. This comparison video is too inaccurate to be credible.
I think an aircraft with a sky blue and white camouflage and white underbelly is harder to spot when its in the clouds above you, but is easier to spot closer to the ground. While an aircraft with a black camouflage is harder to spot when flying closer to the ground, but is easier to spot in the sky. It depends on the environment that you're flying in. If you're flying above a thick forest or jungle, black planes will blend in better with the ground and white planes won't, but if you're flying above a desert, then both black and white planes would be easy enough to see except black planes at night.
In reality the RCS of the F35 is about 1000x lower than the RCS of the SU57. The RCS of the F22 is even lower than that of the F35. During exercises pilot's reported that even if when they could see the F22 visually they couldn't get a missile lock on the f22 unless the F22 has restrictions during the exercise
Why is the RCS so low? i have not seen anything to suggest it is so low in the actual aircraft, or did i miss something? anyway, i just wanted some realistic engagements between these modern jets, if you can think of some scenario to do that that would be amazing too
since the angles are chosen in a way, that minimise the reflection, so the refraction back to the target. Therefore 90 degree angles are forbidden, since they always reflect to the host :) So you relying on the dispersion of the paint, to send you those radar waves back (since a surface is not perfectly flat etc)
Your assumptions are wrong. There are also plenty of credible sources for RCS of both planes. The F-22 has an RCS of .0001 meters, whereas the SU-57 has an RCS of 1 meter from any angle other than head on, and head on an RCS of .1 meters.
VR is useless for that test......for now:) But good on Simba for not using it as a crutch. I've got a g2 and can't see jack at any distance. And I refuse to tank my setting so I can see a black dot
I call BS on the SUs radar cross section being equal to the f22...all those missile mountings and missiles definitely add to radar ping lol..f22 is all internal racks for good reason lol
Hi cap, thank you for satisfying the mob 😂 I would also wonder if you could do the same mission but both aircrafts leave your radars on all the time like what Ghostface 22 mentioned. Thank you 🙏
Where can people find the su57 mod!?
Enjoy: th-cam.com/play/PL3kOAM2N1YJcbzwU5FCo0DRmCdF3owO1o.html
Only complaint about this fight is the su 57 has a bigger rcs by how much who knows but to set them all the same is bit foolish out of all the air craft that are stealth the f22 would be the best rcs
@@mad_man_savage452 some reports (including LH and USAF) now claim that the 35 has a lower RCS.
@@thebu383 I think the advantage of F-22 is its all aspect stealth which afaik F-35 doesn't have, but advances in material science and computational modeling benefits the F-35 as it was a later project. So who knows.
@@mad_man_savage452 right, those exhaust nozzles are not stealthy at all lol, although the su-57 does have a pretty unique maneuverability edge with it's nozzle swivel but in the modern world that's only going to get you so far when the enemy sees you long before you see them and do a fancy twirl
One thing I would certainly like to see would be some 1 v 1 matches between you guys and Growling Sidewinder.
Yeah that'd be cool if they collaborated lol I'm Subscribed too both👍
I think they don’t get along,correct me if I’m wrong
Longshot and gs vs all of grim reapers
@@fqeagles21 no idea
I don't think they are ready for Growling Sidewinder or Longshot on DCS ! However I would tune in to see it.
100's of millions of dollars of equipment, and the deciding factor? The Mk 1 eyeball
from what i remember reading, the stealth capabilities of the su57 is only front on stealth. it doesn't have much from anywhere else except from in front of it, so if it cranks or goes cold it should appear on radar
Spot on. It does not even come close to the F-22.
That’s even if it’s stealthy at all. The Russians only have one And all of its specifications may be bullshit
@@patrickbagnano1561 They currently have 10 units of Su 57
There is no such thing as stealth - RADAR return oversampling has killed the whole notion dead.
Yup look at the shape of the engine exhaust, round, and no effort to hide them
I fly in VR, decent VR too (Reverb G2), and can attest that visual spotting and SA in general is really hard. Over and above the resolution disadvantage, the owl-neck that Track IR provides just can't be done in VR.
3000x3000 per eye in G2 or Quest 2 is enough to be on par with fullhd monitors. And for owl neck you have VR neck saver. Basically if you have better or equal card than 3080ti then you can be competitive in DCS (especially in 2.5.6 version). In IL2 you will actually be deadly with such config to any of 2D pilots when the rest is equal.
I fly with reverb g2 as well do you use vr zoom?
@@Fiztex553 full hd is garbage
@Angry Russian I have a g2 and track ir. There is no comparison for ease of use. Track ir and 2d zoom is ten times easier and more clear than 3d. And I use a 3080. Itll be awesome when vr gets a 4 to1 head track ratio similar to track ir. Cuz the hell with twisting like a pretzel to check 6😄
@@lat78610 For sure. But for competition with current DCS engine fullhd gives better spotting than 4K because these black pixels are just bigger. 3000x3000 per eye gives same result in VR. Of course we are far away from VR clarity being on par with 2D 4K displays, it will be many more years before we are there.
I think in the flanker you need a radar lock to fire r77 or r27 type missiles even in acm unless you launch override.
He had EORL which means automatic radar illumination and slaving, but that Su57 mod is really bad. Most of the weapons and buttons don't work at all.
A beyond-visual-range missile (BVR) is an air-to-air missile (BVRAAM) that is capable of engaging at ranges of 20 nmi (37 km) or beyond. You guys were actually merging... in a sense. Turn on both radars and see which one actually sees the other aircraft first, gets a lock-on and fires a missile. If defending from a missile lock, see which plane is superior in out-maneuvering the incoming missile. Redo!
As explained at length, they can't see each other at that range.
They're also two aircraft with classified specifications, especially radar cross section. Assigning either of them detection ranges would be arbitrary.
As mentioned in the video, in DCS, they won't able to see each other even with radar on unless close range~5 miles
Once you turn the radar on, it show it on RWR, which gives your position away and you don't want that.
@@FuckYouYouFuck then it's not a true BVR video. BVR is when you actually get a missile lock by utilizing your radar and sensors from a great distance. Not when you have to "visually" see the enemy aircraft.
@@s87343jim then why does GS have BVR videos? My point is that the title of this video is wrong. BVR engagements are done at great ranges. It's a test of the aircrafts radar, sensors, countermeasures and pilot skill!
@@Ghostfaace22 "then it's not a true BVR video. BVR is when you actually get a missile lock by utilizing your radar and sensors from a great distance. Not when you have to "visually" see the enemy aircraft."
There's your answer then... It's not a BVR fight because these two, at the very least in DCS, can't fight BVR. Neither can get quality weapons lock on the other, forcing them to fight at Visual range.
Hey GR, if you don't mind, I'd like to suggest something for the wargames series: USN SAG (surface action group) consisting of one Tico and one Burke vs one or more squadrons of Tu-22s (1 squadron ~10 aircraft) in the black sea w/ realistic tactics.
Some tips to help with realism:
1. Have the SAG run away from whatever is attacking it! Reducing the closing speed by even 30 knots buys more time for the SAG to intercept missiles! Better yet, have them be running towards something. Maybe if they survive long enough they can reach the air cover of a nearby carrier?
2. If you're going to use more than one squadron of Tu22s, have them come in in multiple waves or directions. Maybe have one squadron start in mid-air over the Black sea while another two start on the ground in Crimea? Also, maybe add in a fighter squadron if you end up getting a huge formation.
3. While the SAG runs away, the CSG shouldn't be sitting idle! They should be steaming full speed ahead to link up with their embattled comrades! Maybe this could give you and the boys an excuse to hop in F-14s or F/A-18s and try to intercept some of the missiles before they hit the SAG.
I hope you like this one GR, love the content and a speedy recovery!
Thanks
After what we are seeing in Ukraine, it would go: F22 would keep shooting, the SU57 keep bursting in a balls of fire. Here you have it, short and concise.
Amazingly people will still say the Su57 will be dead before the merge... 🤣
Its only logical when your both stealthy, things end up closer *unless* you have some fancy Russian high tech VHF radar to give you a vector.
They aren't stupid, they built the -57 to be *stealthy enough* to not be detected by radar outside if it's electro optical range as well as the L-band which may possibly also be being used offensively at shorter ranges.
The aircraft is designed with dogfighting in mind when it comes to facing an f22 or F35..
For my money I dont think I'd wanna be facing one IRL.... id say its always going to the 50/50 with the F22 and its possible the DIRCM Laser turrets could blind the DAS on the F35... Lasers are great at burning optical sensors afterall.
Either way the Su57 is a very capable aircraft and its shown itself to be able to push the limits of even what the Su35s could do , even without the new engines.
I just can't fanboy over the US equipment and say it would never lose... I think the pieces are in place that the Su57 has the advantage in locations where it has Ground Based assets to assist.
Assume AWACS will be Neutralized by 400km range missiles and won't play much of a part near the front lines in guiding fighters
Hope it never happens, but if it does, u won't be surprised to see the non US fighters being competitive. There are a LOT of interesting aircraft around these days.
If the aircraft is designed with dogfighting it’s bad designed lmao
I just have an awkward feeling with how we see the level of maintenance put into Russian equipment, what is the likelihood of all the sensors and arrays working on the SU-57. Even though there are only 3 currently available to be maintained, how likely is it that the skin of the aircraft is perfectly cared for and the pilots are experienced in fighting other stealth aircraft when they only have 2 other planes to test against (that we know of). I mean, look at the Moskva, it had a full 3-d array of radar and tracking available to detect threats coming from any vector yet it couldn't defend against a couple Ukrainian missiles. Sure, it could have been the crew not acting appropriately in the situation, but who is to say the Russian pilot in a SU-57 that has never fought a seasoned stealth fighter from the US will make the correct decision either?
@@lachlanhudson7404 No conclusive evidence even exists the Moskva was hit by *any* missiles. What was visible was indicative of an uncontrolled fire and catastrophic munition cook off in the SA-N-6 VLS area as well as the 2 CIWS amidships below the bridge.
Regardless of that, the SU-57 is designed with a skin which is tough enough to allow a Journalist to stand on top of the aircraft in street shoes. Something which wouldnt ever be allowed with the F35 or F22 because their coatings are apparently not very durable .
Watch the Combat approved SU-57 documentary for some insight into the composite honeycomb Skin the aircraft has.
Finally there are *at least* 6 serial production aircraft (one crashed) and 12 prototype testbeds , but a lot more than 3. The actual number is probably more than 6 by this time as that number was December last year.
@@CrayonEater255 It's designed to force the fight into a place where the Russians believe it will have a Decisive advantage . Not a bad design at all given these stealth aircraft are unlikely to be detected at BVR ranges, the only way they are ever likely to meet is WVR, likely the IRST, or DAS passive detection, or otherwise BVR may happen from Loyal Wingman drones providing the detection and passing the info via datalink.
Either way the extreme maneuverability can allow notching and evasive maneuvers, those increase survivability at all ranges.. not to mention having active DIRCM countermeasures as well as decoys, chaff and flares. DIRCM is a practical use of an IR laser to burn out optical seekers on IR missiles.
Lasers *are* very good at destroying or degrading optical sensors , even home grown lasers using Nintendo light guns will ruin a camera sensor, thats an idea of how low power they can be and still be effective.
I wouldn't underestimate the SU-57s mix of capabilities, especially given its designed to operate as a part of an integrated system defending Russian airspace. In that capacity it is without doubt a very effective platform.
@@martinpalmer6203 Copium
I think in reality EW is a more important factor in this type of fight. AESA radar generally has frequency hopping functionality to provide LPI i.e. the RWR can't see it clearly. modern radars can also be used to jam or spoof the opponent's sensors.
LPI is in no way an AESA feature, but a marketing term invented to make some c__p sound more sophisticated. Frequency hopping radars have been in service since 1950's.
Also, modern RWRs have a relatively simple way of seeing them.
@@miroslavszabo3783 LPI goes way beyond simple frequency hopping
@@dgour2004 yes, it does. But it's in no way a groundbreaking or new feature.
Virtually everything you did here is Wrong. There is NO data establishing the Su-57 coatings come anywhere close to the radar absorption of F-22s. The Raptor's AESA radar can pick up targets at >110 miles. The AIM-120D can kill them from >100 miles. The tactics, the "rules of engagement" you created here are ridiculous. You're demanding the F-22 fight w/ it's hands tied, while assigning powers to the Su-57 that don't exist. FYI... J-20s are NOT "5th gen" nor "stealth". They're pretenders.
The forward view out of the Felon's canopy is very narrow compared to the Raptor.
I find white and the gray the US military uses really hard to see mostly due to haze near the ground. I could see gray being slightly better on a really clear day and white being better with any haze at all.
skyblue could also be amazing camo, cause you flying above clouds and above water could a blue-ish plane be hard to spot.
Mufasa: "Son, did you learn nothing from all those pouncing lessons I gave you?"
It’s an interesting test, but I highly doubt the Chinese plane has anywhere near the RCS of the other 3 planes…also, i’m not completely sure the Su-57 is that close to the F-22…..out of the 2 remaining, I’m not sure which one would be better, the F35 or the F222…probably close, but I doubt they are the same.
The F-22 is superior to The J-20 and F-35
@@Anarchy_420. And the 57
@@bri-manhunter2654 absolutely, just didn't mention that bc he already kinda did✌
@@Anarchy_420 The F-35 would benefit from its newer systems and its degree of integration but it's hard to imagine that it could beat the F-22 in pure stealth.
@@trolleriffic The F-22 has received a slew of upgrades making it just as relevant as The F-35, I'd go into details lol but I don't feel like it. However all you need to do is do a very lil bit of research on it and you'll see what I'm talking about, they're calling it The Super Raptor on line👍
This wasn't really a Su-57 VS F-22, more of Cap bullying Symba
There is quite a few consesions here making this less than realistic.
Firstly both aircraft would be supporten by ground or air radar.
You might think that a air radar would not se them anyway... well.. here is where it get complicated.
Yes, a f22 is very stealthy from the front side, but from the rear... very much less so.
The is no chanse the su57 is as stealthy as f22.. not even F35 is that. When looking a Quick glanse su57 and f22 looks kind of simular. But lookning at the details, the diffrance is rather large. The most obvius is that the engine lack radar sheelding. This will make it pretty much totaly non stealth from the backside.
But there is also other detals that glassig geometri and material.
There is aslo diffrances in radar. F22 uses a phase aray radar, su57 uses a squashplate radar. The phase aray radar can beamform the other cant. The power of the f22 radar is... well effectivly a order of magnutue higher.
Also beam froming slows the F22 to search with out being detected.
I would proboly go do far to say tjst the su57 is a aircraft in a stelth suite.. bit not really a stealth aircraft. There is really no gen 5 festures of it what so ever and its more of a propaganda tool than a effectice fighter.
If the Ukraine War has taught us anything it's that Russia and formerly the USSR have been exaggerating their weapons capabilities far beyond their actual ability and their propensity towards building something like a stealth fighter platform and labeling it "comparable" to America's current best and widely adopted stealth fighter platforms is not just a mild exaggeration but in reality a hilarious lie that belies reality. Even when Russia/China do make some decent piece of tech they either lack the ability to fuel, support, arm, or maintain and repair it or; and this has come into sharp relief in Russia's current conflict in Ukraine, they lack the command and control, battlefield experience, and understanding of their own tech capabilities at a leadership level to even make best use of what they do have.
I wonder if Putin would have engaged Ukraine if he had known it would reveal Russia's true combat abilities and that in turn would lead to most of the western world to a chuckling sort of sense of relief... that we had built Russia up to be this boogeyman and in reality their combat capabilities are kind of a joke compared to the west in general and America specifically. We're laughing at you Russia. And when we can sort your nukes out... And that day is coming, we're gonna sort you out too (I should emphasize I'm talking to the Russian oligarchs and communist party operators like Putin... regular Russians are definitely complicit just as we Americans are complicit in the wrongdoings of our government but regular Russians should welcome western enforced Regime Change as it might be the only shot they have at an actual representative democracy which while by no means perfect is far better than the corporate crony oligarchy with shades of autocratic dictatorship that runs their country now).
I am now hoping for J-20 vs Felon and Raptor lol.
No, Grim Reaper, we are never satisfied.
Maybe, you can try making 2 teams of player go against each other with stealth fighters, guided by awacs and data link.
The J-20 doesn't have any guns. So when they see each other the J-20 has a great disadvantage.
@@seaturtleOlympiads since every kill here was with guns...
@@emmata98 yet both sides used guns hit or miss it's a number game
@@seaturtleOlympiads no, they didn't. They only fired missiles.
With multiple enemys, maybe you could jutify the gun, since they only carried 2 IR-missiles, witch were the only one used here, but otherwise, they didn't use it.
I am also not a friend of the Eurofighter not having a gun, but it has its points and wasn't used here
I read that one of the advantages of the f-35 is in joint air to air operations with 4th gen fighters like F15s. I don't remember why but I think it had to do with the data sharing and/or EW.
So, it might be fun to explore tactics in a traditional 4th gen fighter BVR engagement with 5th gen fighters in the mix.
Sukhoi’s own patent claims Su-57 having a design RCS between 0.1 and 1 m^2. While the turret of the 101KS-V IRST is rotated backwards in cruise configuration, and its rear hemisphere is covered with a radar-absorbing coating to cover its RCS signal. That’s comparable to a clean Super Hornet and it shouldn’t be a surprise when Su-57 follows many of the same RCS-reduction measures such as using radar blockers to hide the engine face instead of an actual serpentine duct.
‘It’s not just Su-57 being less stealthy than F-35 (-40 dBsm) - it has a 1,000 times bigger RCS. Since detection range is proportional to the 4th root of RCS, a 1,000 times bigger RCS equates to 5.6 times greater detection range. And this is after giving Su-57 every benefit of doubt, the F-35’s RCS is very likely closer to -50 dB.’
‘The F-35 will be enjoying almost 6 times greater detection range against Su-57. The difference is so huge that Su-57 will be hopelessly outclassed. We see this time and again in Red Flags and Northern Edge with F-35 having 28-1 kill ratio against modern 4th gen. aircraft backed by AWACS and SAMs. The enormous difference in detection range from Stealth is the primary factor for such a lopsided kill ratio.
Total propaganda. You cant extrapolate performance vs Su-57 by performance vs 4th gen aircraft in situations designed to be favorable for the F-35. Fact is stealth is more about RAM than shaping. Radars WILL see and track F-22s and F-35s. The only hope to actually be stealthy is RAM which the Russians are WAY ahead in...then there is IRST which the Russians are also WAY ahead in. Chinese are probably catching up as are the Europeans.
@@Internetbutthurt … actually NO … Ufimtsev the Soviet/Russian physicist and mathematician, considered the seminal force behind modern stealth aircraft technology. In the 1960s he began developing equations for predicting the reflection of electromagnetic waves from simple two-dimensional and three-dimensional objects. RAM was invented during WW ll to cover the radar masts on ships, if you only had to paint a plane with RAM, we’d of had stealth planes 7 decades ago!
I love coming home from work and finding a new Grim Reapers video. And I don't even play the game!
Hi Ivan
If you already fire missiles at him and see him visually you may as well turn on the radar.
The RCS of the SU-57 is equivalent to that of a Super Hornet in a clean configuration. That's 1000 times bigger than the F-35 RCS. The F-35 has a RCS 10 times bigger than the F-22. You're lumping apples with oranges and comparing them to bananas.
So some say. Guess they must've gotten access to the secret files that Sukhoi has detailing the radar specifications. Or something.
@@arbiterodie7685 Do a little bit of research. Oh- and seeing how there are only 6-7 deployable Felons in existence, and 'ol Putin soon wont have a pot to piss in- there wont be any more made. So good luck with airframes you got, cuz you're gonna need em, comrade.
How would you possibly know that?
The canopy on the Su-57 obstructs the pilot's view so much, I wonder why they did that. It looks pretty crammed in there as well.
To minimize the radar penetration
@@matsv201 im sorry but that does not make any sense. A canopy bow like the one that the Su57 has would only contribute to enlarging the radar signature of the plane
The actual radar cross section of an F-22 is 0.012 M2. That’s classified information so don’t tell anyone.
It's much lower than that. Even the RCS of the F35 is much lower than that.
@@Milvus_In_Excelsis to test that you just need a radar and an F22 :D
@@emmata98 not really. We need to know that it's classified and take the number they gave us and realize it's probably lower
@@Milvus_In_Excelsis bit we want to know it, and therefore we have to measure it
@@emmata98 In theory you could model it but it would be quite a challenge and with so much of the detail of these planes being classified, you'd still end up with a range of estimates and would have to pick what you thought was likely to be right.
The RCS is dependent on the angle the enemy aircraft is oriented against the radar of your own aircraft.
But how realistically is that modelled in DCS?
@@potatoskunk5981 It's not.
I believe a comment was made previously that stealth is a "hack" and it just changes the cross sectional area to a fixed value.
So the RCS is not modeled with angle. Which is too bad as I understand it, that's a major difference between the F22/F35 and these other stealth aircraft.
@@Jgalaski8438 You're not wrong but it's a little more complex than that. The F35 has a smaller frontal RCS whereas the F22 has a smaller rear RCS. I cant speak for the Su57 nor J20 though, just don't know enough about them.
Also on wavelength of enemy radar
Mosquito VS Pucara
F-4 Phantom VS A-4 Skyhawk
F-15 STOL/MTD VS F-16I Sufa
MB-339 Aerimacchi VS Viggen
T-45 Goshawk VS F-14 Tomcat
MIG-28 VS MIG-29
P-47 VS Super Tucano
AV-8 Harrier VS MIG-23 Flogger
F-86 Sabre VS SU-25 FrogFoot
MIG-19 VS MIG-21
Please fly the Planes on the left😁✌
Stealth sucks at Su57, that was the very reason why India baled out of the Su57 development program. In these mods you can do what ever you want, no attachment to reality. Both planes are classified
BTW electro optical can't see through clouds so can be countered by cloud hugging
The 101KS EO has IRST built in.
@@appa609 irst is electro optical or thermal imaging and clouds block it
F22 is said to have a frontal RCS of .0001m2, or the size of a marble. But who really knows? It's definitely got a stealth edge over the SU-57 just due to tighter tolerances, and they've done really well reducing its IR signature.
However Russia definitely seems to have gotten the hang of it, looking at the SU-75. It looks like a much tighter aircraft when it comes to panel fitment. The SU-57 has incredible sensor technologies though. The L band radars in the wings are interesting. I'm curious as to how well they work due to their small antennas. I bet the side facing AESA radars would come in handy in a situation like this.
If anyone is curious about what makes the SU-57 tick, Millennium7* has an amazing amount of information on it. Probably more than anywhere else on TH-cam.
I think something often overlooked is the purpose of the stealth. The F22 has to defeat systems like s300 to do its job whereas the Su57 just has to get past smaller less powerful airborne radars. They're both great aircraft, but only for their respective airforces.
The SU57 isn't a true stealth aircraft. Just a los observation aircraft
Stealth is more about RAM and the Russians have the advantage in that area.
@@kresnik_ss It’s a 4++ gen fighter
The Russians didn’t get the hang of it lol, the guy who made the F22 mod couldn’t make it .0001m2 as it was going to be overpowered.
20:40 maybe because the ground reflects more light and generally is lighter than a plane?
Also in War Thunder every plane is darker, than the ground (could be not a modelled colour on the distance though), so a lighter plane should help with that
16:58 i think the missile did fire just it was slow to come off the rail or else where did the other missile that killed simba come from?
Hard to tell when this plane is firing.
in real life, the Raptor is 250 times smaller than the (one) operational SU-57. The second 57 was delivered in Jan of 21 and crashed one week later due to engine failures. just FYI ...really love your channel. Can you do a simulation of the Israeli attack on the nuclear reactor heavy water facility against IRAQ that took place in the 1980s? that would be epic -Thanks from TEXAS
Five Raptors and eight Lightning-II's have crushed, due to a variety of reasons. What's your point?
@@Struktualnyj Well since you are so sensitive ...5 Raptors out of 176 since 1995
8 F-35's out of 1348 . (3 prototypes) 5 operational
SU-57 1 of 2. since Jan 29, 2010. Russia built 2 planes in 12 yrs, at this rate by 2034 Russia will build another two with a total of three with 2 operational. LMFAO
The front control surfaces on the 57 look like they'd mess up and enlarge the front view RCS. The IR sensor is also sticking out like a sore thumb as well.
@@sae1095hc it just has poor manufacturing and the seems are really really bad, its as visible as any other gen 4 aircraft practically. too bad, it's a nice looking plane.
@@e.s.5529 I thought Russia had like 9 prototypes, what about those? Didn't some of those have malfunctions?
And the F-35 is more than enough to handle the Su-57, so not too worried about it.
What concerns me most is chinese 5th gen aircraft. Not because of quality, but moreso because of the rate they can produce them at.
Do any F22 mods still work in DCS? I can't get mine to work since the last update to 2.7 whatever
IRL, the Su-57 is somewhat stealthy from the front, slightly stealthy from the sides, and not stealthy at all from the back. There is no way it is even close to an F-22, unless the Raptor was sabotaged somehow. Mounting EXTERNAL stores, does count as sabotage, but the F-22 is still far stealthier than the Su in its clean configuration. Now, STUPIDLY setting the RCS equal is complete BS, and is rigging the "simulation".
Based on the experience of the Russian pilots in terms of flight hours per year, the Americans have them outmatched.
Something I’ve been curious about with stealth planes. I’ve heard the comparison that the radar signature is comparable to a bird. Wouldn’t it be possible to program the radar to ignore the rest but focus on the “bird” flying at 500+KTAS??
Correct.
That what they try to do. But the challenge is that the signal is so weak, that it's basically noise.
The signal spreads out over a distance, a tiny return has to be detected, but the return also spreads out over the distance on it's way back to the radar. So the radar return is really small. In 2 dimensions, think rings on water, from the radar, which then has to pick up on the rings returning from the target. But in 3 dimensions the rings spread even more.
@@lordsqueak ahhhh okay, that makes sense then. I was curious as to how stealth was still effective IF the “look for supersonic birds” method actually worked. My assumption was also that they might use some sort of AI algorithm to sort through then noise…
you don’t really know at which speed the thing you’re picking up is going, and it can be noise after all
True and untrue. At best they have the radar signature of a bird. (I doubt the SU-57’s RCS is that small) but as soon as the come from any angle that isn’t straight on it increases. The stealth is just to make the operator think twice about what he’s picked up.
You failed to test the actual BVR capabilities. You turned the scenario into a dogfight by acquiring visuals instead of turning your radars on and using them to find eachother. the RCS for the f22 is ~ 0.0001 (m squared) in certain aspects so i would set it to 0.01, while sukhoi has stated the su57's RCS is 0.3-0.4 (m squared).
then, the rule is... BEYOND VISUAL RANGE.... meaning you both have to turn your radars on and i would start 200miles out or further and see which plane gets picked up first. youve cheated the system by going into a visual fight
Let's go! Raptor all the way, baby! Glad to hear you voice alot better as well, brother.
The SU-57 has the radar cross section of a clean F-18 super hornet, so the F-22 has a much better stealth capability
How do you know
@@tanmaysingh267 He doesn't, he's talking pure SHIT
@@reway8750 no he’s not I can link it if you want, atleast if I remember to go back on here to see if you replied
@@theamericancommie727 Link it
@@theamericancommie727 link it
Thank you for explaining the TH-cam compression thing. I'm not very tech savvy and thought my eyes were worse than they are.
Small details are destroyed during the compression :(
White reflects all lightwaves, Black absorbs all lightwaves. So it really depends on the environment but black tends to stick out.
whistling yet again in the dark ha lol love it lol .... good at your job as usual
zoom in do you have binoculars in the cockpit or is that something else I don't know ?
Stealth wasnt a focal point of the Su-57s development, it was a byproduct. And it wasnt optimized for stealth either. According to analytics and simulations using accurate modeling of the plane its RCS is something like 0.3-0.08m² depending on the area presented to the radar. The F-22 however has an absolutely tiny RCS at a maximum of 0.5cm² or 0.01-0.0001m². Essentially with the F-22 you are trying to track a 1cm ball bearing traveling at mach 1.2 for most of it's time in the skies. The Felon is much easier to track and see and that's been figured out based on accurate computer models and simulations by independent sources.
yeah this guy sucks for thinking they were on the same level. this is why I hate british people
How would AWACS influence this? How far away can the larger radar spot you?
It's not only the question of bigger (and more powerful) radar, but also its wave-length and other variables. I believe AVACS aircrafts use longer wave-lengths, such as S- or L-band, for their radars. This should allow for better results against stealth jets, compared to fighters equipped with X-band fire control radars.
The SU-57 is a stealthy as a super Hornet.
er no...
@@Internetbutthurt well you can say that, buuuut according to Sukhoi’s patent, the SU-57’s frontal RCS (its stealthiest) is 0.1m^2. A clean configured F/A-18 Super Hornet has a frontal RCS of 0.1m^2.
Btw the F-22 has an RCS of 0.001-0.0001m^2 which is literally 1000x stealthier, we also now that through developments in RAM technology, the F-35 is stealthier than the F-22.
@@Jab_Air no the quoted F-22 RCS is from one angle, it is not an average or realistic number. The Russian figure is closer to reality and it does not include the effectiveness of RAM. The Russians would also not give you the true and exact figure because this would be a state secret.
@@Internetbutthurt first off, the 0.1m^2 RCS of the SU-57 IS from the frontal aspect, second, you can find this information in Sukhoi’s own patent.
Btw the 0.1m^2 RCS of the SU-57 is with RAM coating, something the actual SU-57s flying around don’t have.
@@Jab_Air For starters if you believe Sukhoi is going to make publicly available exact figures on what would be a state secret ive got shares in a bridge to sell you. The Russians are deliberately extremely vague about figures on such things because there is no benefit in giving specific information. The figure in the patent is most definitely an average value as it doesnt give away the RCS of any one facing, and the average is going to be affected by the rear facing which is clearly less stealthy - the frontal RCS will be less than .1 and this is not inclusive of RAM. Cite your evidence where it explicitly states that it includes RAM. Seems to me like you are just trying to convince yourself. If you knew where to look you'd find a good technical analysis of the PAK-FA by a radar engineer and it isnt on you tube.
We THINK they are roughly the same but the events over the last month prove it's probably not close. Russia built 3?? And 1 crashed already? No coating, radar is probably ok, engines are ok but they got zero money to build more or develop it. Their pilots got like 8 hours a month flying time which is AWFUl as well. I'd even put an F16 or F15ex up against the SU57 at this point. I just can't take their claims seriously right now.
Very difficult to pick out bandits visually with current VR headsets. Maybe with one of those $5000 Varjo VR headsets you'd be comparable but with an index or quest it's a lot harder. That said though the experience is fantastic.
I think new engine for DCS will solve this issue, actually in DCS 2.5.6 with 3080ti or better it's already pretty good, I can see everything I need. And IL2 is perfect on spotting already and 3000x3000 resolution for G2 or Q2 is enough to ID well.
I guess this comment is for Grimm... I guess that’s your tag name or your call sign. This is in reference to your mapping that you’ve done for the X 56 which I’ve downloaded and I greatly appreciate. however, you don’t have a key to that so nobody knows...as an example where you’ve key bind your flaps. so wow yes I greatly appreciate the work that you put in and that you’ve offered all the other F-16 drivers. could you provide us with a map so we actually know... where the flaps are bound to...along with all the others so I appreciate it thanks
Never use audible to leave a message...it could read like your a dumb-ass. So...for all the typos in the above comment...sorry in advance.
Hey Cap would it be effective to try and use your aim 9 IR sensor to try finding him?
I understand you wouldn't normally want to open your weapons bays cause it would break your stealth but since both have their radars off it doesn't really matter.
I'm not sure that's possible on Raptor when the missiles are stored internally.
@@Rampant16 how do you think it gets an IR lock before firing a missile? The nose of the missile is extended out from the aircraft when the door is open. Look at pictures on Google. Since they are not turning on their radars having the doors open doesn't matter for stealth anyway.
@@merlinbarlow AIM-9X has "lock-on after launch". The missile communicates with the aircraft via data link and only acquires a target after being fired.
@@Rampant16 I'm not saying he can't do that just why not stick the nose out and use it's sensor. He clearly is locking before launching because he gets tone and then fires. Also he has nothing on data link in this situation because his radar is off, enemy radar is off, and there is no AWACS
Wow.... I just can't figure out what cooler, the birds, or the redundancy of the nullification. The pure joy of DCS, because it's all brand new to me, I don't even play it yet... but coming back to this video, It's literally military intelligence at in its best oxymoronic form.
What HOTAS do you use for F-22?
WinWing
Felon is a pretty cool unit/mod, practice lil more with it...23:47 just press spacebar incase...
Fly tight and low around the shoreline?
They should add a skin for the f-22 in this with that new chrome or polised aluminum thats been seen, it looks pretty sick. But tbh once these are refitted with some of the f-35 features, better radar, new stealth panels instead of the paint. I cant see anything touching the raptor for a while. It may only have 2d vectoring, but it has amazing stealth, and interesting engine placement, if u notice its intakes start very early on in the airframe toward the nose. Compared to a f-18 or somthing. This lets the engines sit more center in the plane putting the thrust almost hidden, the way the vectoring works in conjuction with there placement and the tails is impressive. This engine placement also lets the raptor hide its rear heat signature much better.
Where do you get aircraft like F-22, F-35 and so on. They are not on steam and can't find them on DCS official webpage either.
Also, can steam players play multiplayer with non-steam players. I regret buying my DLC's on steam instead of from their webpage since modules are not compatible between steam and non-steam version.
They're unofficial mods which means they're created by amateurs for fun. Some mods are up there with official modules in terms of realism and detail, but many others like the F-22 and Su-57 are quite inaccurate and you can tell how they've been hacked together. Since radar cross section and IR emission isn't modelled properly in DCS anyway, it's a bit difficult to do an accurate stealth plane, and that's on top of the problem that all the really useful information is classified.
Linked in vid description.
@@trolleriffic Thank you
@@grimreapers I must be getting old, I stared at the links for "ages" without seing it, until I finally saw it just under the timestamps. I started from useful links and worked my way down over and over again. My bad.
Btw: Thank you for great content guys. Grim Reapers (specially CAP) always manage to put a smile on my face
The SU-57 is only good front on as it is not invisible to the radar
Your voice is much improved!
From Wikipedia - Radar Cross Section, m^2
F22 - 0.0001
F35 (A,B,C) - 0.05 - 0.3 (depending on loadout)
Su-57 - 0.3 - 0.4
J20 -
thx
SU is 4.25-4.50 gen :)
Major problem with this is that it's well known that the felon hasn't achieved the same level of stealth as the f-22 so making them equal isn't accurate
They both are detectable on radar with a low enough frequency. Invisibility is less of the point it's more for not being able to get a weapons lock. SU 57 has comparable radar "Invisibility" where it counts. Front and side.
@@carlosandleon I don't agree. The weapon pylons alone and their coating game is nowhere even near the US. I get that RCS is impossible to eliminate and the the main goal is to be too be too difficult to be locked up on but if you can attain and get launch parameters before your opponent every little bit counts. The engagement will be BVR so it really is who "sees" who first. The felon's RCS is ONLY good from head on. So as soon as they're not head on you have a lock so long as you're pointed hot. And AWACs will ensure you're pointing hot. They're just not built to the same level when it comes to stealth. Now the Russians have better thrust vectoring and their missile game is good so I'm not saying one is better than the other overall. Just saying you can't have them as equals in stealth because they aren't. By a significant amount.
The F22 has a radar cross section as a bee. A small bee. The F35 of a golf ball. The SU-57 Not so much. The info is out there, easy to find. The SU-57 from the rear isn’t stealthy at all. Have no idea on the J20.
Assuming the RCS of each of these planes is a closely guarded secret, how does DCS go about modeling them?
So. Here's an idea for 5th gen... one side defends a fixed point on the ground while the other attacks. But have several PvP on each side. You can also include AWACS and Patroit/S400 on the defense.
rgr
Here's a good idea, a dogfight, Gen 4 & Gen 5 Jet mix, in Lightning Storm, 🌩 . Be good for next video
Remember that winwing technology is your ultimate hardware solution :) 17
Agree x
Always wondered what this could result as considering both are struggling to see each other
That depends on what angle the enemy craft is facing the radar. At certain angles the stealth of the radar cross section can increase dramatically.
Can't wait for the Raptor upgrade he was talking about that it has in real life, Real F-22 has much lower IR from it's concealed thrusters while The SU-57 is lacking in this area as it's thrusters are nowhere near as stealthy/IR as The Raptor's
Ayo nice tuts dude
@@joeclaridy good for detection but you need a stable track to guide a missile.
Is aspect modeled in the rcs calculation at all? In reality an F-22 is something like -40dB sm head on but becomes +40dB sm if it shows the normal of its planform.
Not in DCS, rcs is a flat fixed number, so it's the same from every angle and orientation.
Thank you.
To launch the SU-57 Fox 3's, you need to LA override and then fire. I have found in the latest Cubanace update that the AE's work and track but the R-77Ms do not track.
I thought I tried LA, must have forgotten it.
Where do you find the update from CubanAce? My Su-57 hasn’t been working since a few patches ago. I’d love for it to work again, but can’t get it to. Any info would be super helpful. Not sure if it matters, but I have a boatload of other mods as well. Even having it in my mods folder wouldn’t let the game open, after deleting some of my mods I got it to open with the Su-57, and can even load it out in mission editor , but when I go to actually fly it gives me the “thinking” spinning wheel and keeps loading, only to have to task manager out of DCS (open beta).
@@zooweemama911 CubanAce have a Facebook page, that's where i got the latest version. Cap has the updated lonk posted on his SU-57 mod video.
@@pariseri1 ah, great to know! Thank you!
The RCS of the Felon is about 1,000 worse than the F-35 it's very similar to the Super Hornet. A BVR engagement favors the F-22 by a lot.
the aft RCS definitely seems worse. those nozzles are pretty gnarly
You did testing on rl plane to see RCS?
@@TheGranicd no. Even Sukoi's own claims state this. Frontal RCS is comparable to a Super Hornet and rear is likely worse. I do not see your reasoning to respond by questioning RCS of the Felon.
@@davidporter7051 Thats mentioned in regarding to patent claim. I take US and Russian claims with grain of salt and as producer propaganda. RQ180 was also stealth yet Iran picked it up...117 was stealth then 1 got downed and 2 more got hit according to US.
@@TheGranicd nothing you just replied has any bearing on the RCS of the Felon. So why are you attempting to play mental gymnastics?
The real story here is that the F22 will be benefitting from at least 3 possible outside detection systems and radio silence where the SU57 will have none of that help and the radios will probably not be working properly. The F22 will therefore acquire the SU57 well beyond visual range, launch 2 missiles, turn for home, take a piss, have a bite of power bar and contemplate the meaning of life as the SU57 pilot craps himself, over-G's the airframe, and winds up walking home if he is very, very lucky.
What kind of a dreamy BS is that? Lmfaoo
The real story here is than in 2022, America is a racialized shithole country preoccupied with anal sex and other social maladies. Things have deteriorated noticeably since the early 2000s and will continue to do so in the foreseeable future. All that the Chinese and Russians need to do at this point is to wait for a decade or two. Military tech is almost irrelevant.
@@voradfils >Military tech is almost irrelevant
Yeah what a way of justifying inferior Russian technology and design lol, tankie
@@CrayonEater255 It is irrelevant if your country is totally pussified like Canada. Don't the Chinese own like half of Vancouver by now? Not a single shot was fired. The truckers seem like a fine bunch, though, which gives me some hope.
@@super-maneuverability592 Russia can't even beat Ukraine, how the hell do they stand a chance against USA? Our technological advances are 25 years ahead of Russian tech, and for them to catch up, we'd have to slow down our R&D progress speed by 40% for at least 5 decades. Russia's best bet is their SU-75, which still lacks a real body
Do the windmills spin fastener when the winds are faster in DCS?
good Q
Giving the SU-57 the same radar cross section as an F-22 is incredibly disingenuous. The SU-57’s cross section will be nowhere near as small as the F-22’s. Not only does it have moving surfaces on the front of its wings, but it also has a giant IR sensor right in front of the cockpit. Either of those features would ruin their RCS, but they have both. Sukhoi even says the SU-57 has a RCS between 0.1 and 1 meter squared. The F22’s RCS can be as low as 0.0001 meters squared in a head on engagement. A thousand times bigger RCS means the SU-57 can be detected at over 5x the distance as the F-22. This comparison video is too inaccurate to be credible.
Exactly... Any engineer can tell you this...
I like you content,have a nice weekend !
"I think it shows up on the MFD on the right."
I'm glad this is a professional airforce.....
I think a white plane is easier to spot because white reflects light better than black does
What does win wing pre order mean?
Fairplay simba for trying over and over never give up. 👍
Love ya work Simba but I just can’t help and think that maybe Cap is a better dog fighter 😍
It's not even close, it's like a Walmart parking lot Karen trying to race Ken Block on a race track
I think an aircraft with a sky blue and white camouflage and white underbelly is harder to spot when its in the clouds above you, but is easier to spot closer to the ground. While an aircraft with a black camouflage is harder to spot when flying closer to the ground, but is easier to spot in the sky. It depends on the environment that you're flying in. If you're flying above a thick forest or jungle, black planes will blend in better with the ground and white planes won't, but if you're flying above a desert, then both black and white planes would be easy enough to see except black planes at night.
In reality the RCS of the F35 is about 1000x lower than the RCS of the SU57.
The RCS of the F22 is even lower than that of the F35.
During exercises pilot's reported that even if when they could see the F22 visually they couldn't get a missile lock on the f22 unless the F22 has restrictions during the exercise
1000x! LMFAO where do you get this shit from?
@@Internetbutthurt do the math.
The fight of fights! This should be very interesting👍
Why is the RCS so low? i have not seen anything to suggest it is so low in the actual aircraft, or did i miss something?
anyway, i just wanted some realistic engagements between these modern jets, if you can think of some scenario to do that that would be amazing too
since the angles are chosen in a way, that minimise the reflection, so the refraction back to the target.
Therefore 90 degree angles are forbidden, since they always reflect to the host :)
So you relying on the dispersion of the paint, to send you those radar waves back (since a surface is not perfectly flat etc)
The f22 raptor radar is no need to turn. It of ..if switches frequency 1000 time
It’s funny how the capabilities reduced it back to an old school “he who sees first, shoots first” type of fight. Who says dogfighting is dead?
Reality does.
The F-22 has actual full aspect stealth, meaning it has a very low RCS from all angles.
The Su does not.
Don’t cross ridges at right-angles, follow small valleys and pop out there and back in.
Your assumptions are wrong. There are also plenty of credible sources for RCS of both planes. The F-22 has an RCS of .0001 meters, whereas the SU-57 has an RCS of 1 meter from any angle other than head on, and head on an RCS of .1 meters.
Just found your channel! Love it Bro! You could read the phone book and it would sound cool. 🤙🏽🇺🇸
VR is useless for that test......for now:) But good on Simba for not using it as a crutch. I've got a g2 and can't see jack at any distance. And I refuse to tank my setting so I can see a black dot
With how marked up my screen is on my phone, I kept spotting Simba a lot!
SAme with my monitor
Next gen VR is on the way, with high res, but a PC screen definitely has better resolution.
I call BS on the SUs radar cross section being equal to the f22...all those missile mountings and missiles definitely add to radar ping lol..f22 is all internal racks for good reason lol
Yay! Cap got his voice back !!!
Isn't the SU-57's rcs crap unless it's facing you head on? Those exhaust nozzles are wide open to radar.
I love your vids thanks for posting
Hi cap, thank you for satisfying the mob 😂 I would also wonder if you could do the same mission but both aircrafts leave your radars on all the time like what Ghostface 22 mentioned. Thank you 🙏
should be fairly easy to find each other.
Looking forward to the traditional comments from pressed Americans, always a fun bonus.
F-35 vs Su-57 would be a good BVR fight.