One key feature in the beam weaponry is that unlike the Tibanna gas, the minovsky particles are tightly compressed and would destroy atoms in a molecular level which the energy shields of any starships/fighter would have a hard time stopping or outright be ignored depending on the energy output.
I believe if the battle took place during late UC (the Gryps war and the 3 Neo Zeon wars) the Gundam universe would have a better chance at wining. The Gryps war: With their transforming mobile suit, they would destroy all the tie fighters and would damage the star destroyer more severely than any of the zakus. And with the colony laser on the titans side, it would deal a heavy blow towards the fleet since I highly doubt the shields would be strong enough to withstand that much energy. The 1st Neo Zeon war: Most of the suits are equipped with psycho weapons (funnels and incoms) and with the high mega particle cannon on both the ZZ gundam and the Nahel Argama, they would have a higher kill count on the tie fighters and star fighters The 2nd Neo Zeon war: Same thing, but with greater results due to stronger psycho weapons The La+ incident : With the 3 NT-D machines (Unicorn, Banshee, and Phenix), they alone could destroy a star destroyer. And lets not even mention the Neo Zeong
Also mention the Unicorn Gundam's form that I personally what I call Psycho-Frame Crystallin Burst (Or PFCB) form will reverse time of the Star Destroyers, rendering the ships, their Ti-Fighters, shield generators and guns to a point that they were just components.
@@TerminatorGundam300 is right!! The empire should really consider themselves lucky that they weren’t in the NCC era, or whatever era that Turn A Gundam takes place in. The moonlight butterfly system would completely ANNIHILATE the Empire in one strike!!!!
@@Voltexfinal Not sure about the Turn A era since they barely had a space force compared to the other eras and the Earth was mostly stuck with steam powered tech and still digging up buried MS. But the Turn A and Turn X would certainly devastate the Empire. Since the Moonlight Butterfly was proven to cover the whole Earth, is it safe to assume it can do the same to the Death Star?
50/50 scenario is the rebels finding out about the planet and gets them to join their cause giving them an infusion of badly needed equipment and weapons in return for giving the uc earth its own knowledge and tech such as lightspeed travel.
You forgot the fact that the Feddies have the Saberfish. It was the only thing that they had against the Zaku during the start of the OYW. With them, they could even the odds against the TIE’s.
@@aliastheabnormal That's the FF-3 variant. The saberfish can infact be in space with the FF-S3 that was shown in MSV. Although most of not all where converted back to the atmospheric variant at the late stages of the war with most pilots choosing the GM light type over the basic GM.
Mobile suits would be ideal for jedi pilots, especially the ones equipped with psycommu systems. Jedi piloting the Nu or Unicorn could fight in space the same way the fight on foot, slashing fighter with their up-scaled lightsabers and crushing star destroyers with psycommu enhanced telekinesis.
While a lot of fellow Gundam fans have pointed out how truly devastating Minovski particles were (be is their dissolving-esk properties or interference with radar and communications) it’s also important to remember that Star Wars shields often don’t function like most other sci-fi shields. If we look at something like Star Trek, shields are an all-purpose defensive system meant to prevent any and all unwanted attacks and advances like beaming raid parties, physical attacks, and an array of phaser and photon weaponry. Star Wars shields are pretty varied in their effectiveness. In the prequels and Clone Wars tv series we see how smaller shields can protect from las-type weaponry and often have additional defenses towards fast-moving objects. In the original era we see that planetary shields often provide near total protection against all oncoming materials, physical or las-based, yet require massive generators and in rogue one, have specific weaknesses in the form of otherwise unshielded generators. The star destroyers, however, often get taken out by physical objects; seen primarily in the asteroid field of Empire Strikes Back where an otherwise shielded ship is taken down by a direct hit to the bridge by a stray asteroid, and when damaged ships similarly crash and eliminate the bridge of cruisers in Return of the Jedi. It’s highly likely that thanks to Palpatine’s budgeting cuts to the empire’s military budget and the Tarkin doctrine of fear over practicality, that while Star Destroyers did indeed have some minor protections against physical weaponry and high-speed targets, said shields were much weaker than they first appeared and could be easily penetrated as the primary focus was on protecting them from oncoming fire. Additionally these shields were incredibly weak to ion torpedoes which while designed to take out shielding, could render a Star Destroyer complete inoperable after a few shots. Furthermore, the number of ships fluctuate in the Gundam lore thanks to the Origin basically being a re-write, the original saw fleets on both sides reach into the hundreds with the Earth Federation gaining some 300 odd vessels so depending on the version you go with, the Federation and Zeon forces could be vastly larger than those given here which would signify the potential for Gundam fleets standing far better chances in direct conflicts. Prolonged war would present a significant issue however since reinforcements would be a crucial key in the empire taking on Feddies and Siegs since neither faction have access to light speed or warp capabilities meaning their fighting forces must rely solely on what they show up with and any stray or smaller forces could be quickly overrun and taken out, as well as supply lines and trade/communications paths being at the complete mercy of the empire should they wish it
I'll say at the opening war the fed and zeon have vast advantage since they are fighting a defensive war and what's more if those warp drive falls into their hand it's only matter of time before the empire being being invaded by the Gundam forces what's more empire have not yet deal the rebels
If it was mid to late UC, it would be a bloodbath on the Empire side, thanks to more powerful suits that come out and the fact both sides weaponized the star wars equivalent of force users on mechs and warships. Also subscribing because gundam and star wars.
That's if they can survive the first order, the final order, the Droid Gotra and The Grysk Armada. Any one of these factions would be a calamity to any time period of the Universal Centery.
@@TheGreatPinkPillow27 Any star wars faction honestly would probably win in an invasion in MOST UC time periods due to having access to an entire galaxy's worth of manpower and resources compared to Gundam's nations which are limited to the Earth Sphere. However, I highly doubt they would win in a period where Gundam Unicorn is piloted by a strong new-type such as its pilot, Banagher. Unicorn can access new dimensions and use them to manipulate time. Such as when Unicorn caused the engines of an entire fleet of Jegans to revert back to a period where they were non-functional (it could have easily been used to kill the pilots, but Banagher wanted to avoid meaningless death) and also used it to reverse damage on itself. Sort of a bullshit power honestly hahaha.
@@fingbong9653 There are many weapons that can destroy the unicorn gundam and lay waste to the turn A. Like Starkiller base, the emperor force storm, Darth Vader, one of the final order star destroyers and "the celestials" especially "Abeloth". Pretty much anything Gundam universe throws at the star wars universe. Star wars can easily counter.
Nice video however when you set this after the battle of Loum that would mean The Antarctica treaty would not be in effect thus those Zakus would be armed with nukes and at this point of OYW most Zakus have nuclear radiation shielding. Even if The Antarctica treaty have been signed an alien threat would nullify the Duty of not using nukes thus both Zeon’s and Fed’s mobile suits would be using nukes
There are just three main issues i have with this. The first is the minvosky particle density, which would massively disrupt any form of scanning equipment on the star destroyers messing with their entire system. 2. The lack of ball mobile pods, core fighters, and the fact that they would have at least had the gm overall. 3. and this is the big one, this is the lowest level of tech for the feddies and zekes overall, as the middle of the one year war has the name sake gundam, but we have zeon suits like the rick dom, kempfer, and the prototype suits.
I believe it depends which version of the Galactic Empire we are talking about. If it is the good old Expanded Universe which I personally prefer I believe the Empire may infact win. You see in guides set in the Expanded Universe it is said Turbolasers are 200 gigatons per shot which is quite insane. And due to this the armor, shields, and hulls must be very durable and strong. So I believe they win if this is the Expanded Universe Empire. If we are talking about the Disney Canon Empire, well they lose because they were nerfed so badly and they are so incompetent and weak in that pathetic excuse of a canon that any normal Sci Fi or Fantasy faction can beat them with ease. If you're ships are so weak, space whales were able to destroy your star destroyers you realize you screwed something up.
I think the vast majority of people prefer the EU over Disney's canon, and I'm among the fast majority. Though in either universe, ISD still has problems. In fact in EU, the rebels pointed out the ISD had more than 1000 flaws that could be exploited. The turbo lasers would certainly one shot the majority of ships in Gundam, but they'd do poorly against the maneuverability of MS, and the ISDs lack point black defenses. Also while their hulls are durable, MS once attached to the hulls have more options of breaking through than fighters. Also they need only destroy the ISD bridge, which sticks out along with its shield generators
I think you missed the coatings and materials used in the Gundam UC makes pretty much anything intended for war or even piece made by any military force or secret project immune to lasers, no matter the intensity or wavelength. The materials used also distribute and bleed off energy insanely fast so lasers would be very inefficient and ineffective. Also, if we are talking actual gundams and not just mobile suits then we are talking about beam weaponry, some of which is scary levels of powerful. These are charged plasma. Think of taking a solar flare, compressing it into a beam that is about 120-580mm in diameter with the same density as nickle. The explosions seen in the gundam universe are that energy charge disrupting the bonds between atoms and causing instant vaporization of that material. Or sometimes the charge will build in the material till it reaches a critical point, at which point the molecules are so excited and have so much charge they repell each other in a glorious bright explosion like in the Gundam Wing universe. Ion cannons are sort of in the ballpark of mechanics, but nowhere near the power or destructive force or potential of any beam cannons. Melee beam weapons are much like light sabers, but on a scale 10x the size and turned up to 11. Most gundams are impervious to 120mm cannon fire and resistant to beam shots in most the torso, waist, shoulders, and some in legs and arms. Others have shields that are double thick or even triple thick and even tougher to crack. The metals bleed off energy and heat almost as fast as it can be introduced and the greater mass means it can do it even faster and heat slower. But gundams are also very fast and push the limits so much that some have killed pilots just by changing directions. Ones like Unicorn-03 Phenix are said to be able to move through space and time or reach critical percentages of lightspeed, but its unknown if that's the maximum. They spent years looking to capture that gundam when it went rogue and basically used the pilot as a biomass battery so it could continue operating since it needed a pilot to work but had pushed the pilot so hard that they were put into a vegetative state. I'm bot gonna count Turn A into the equation because it was basically a god machine with a singularity as a limitless power source and was so OP that many gundam fans barely acknowledge it as part of the collective based on its ultimate ability being what it is, the moonlight butterfly. So counting that one verse out you can crash into any of them and would find nothing but brutal and unending death if you try to fight any of them. They are all destructive and extremely powerful. Even if you have WH40K meeting gundam WH would end up getting wrecked.
Char would just find some way to use politics to turn the tides and would drop some kind of inanimate object big enough to destroy their weapon like a entire space colony.
It depends on what era we talkin about. Cause the UC Gundam timeline its so big the early stages are really tame in forms of power. But in Late UC we have stuff that can control time and space. After that we have Crossbone Vanguard... And those are armed to the teeth with everything. Laser Immunity mostly, complete immunity to laser technologt
The range is nonsense to be honest. In Star Wars you rarely if ever see ships fire beyond visual range, heck most often almost point blank range. But within even the OYW era Zeon and EF Ships would fire from distances so far that their targets were often just another glimmer within the stars and required magnification to even see let alone shoot at. The opening engagement at Loum from Origin is a good example in which both Zeon and EF forces literally took long range pop shots at each other in mass. Zeta Gundam, and Char's Counterattack it was pretty much the only way they fought. Unicorn also confirms this as well almost always engaging from so far that the ships couldn't even see each other even when they were taking pop shots at each other. In short the range of a Beamcannon in Gundam is only really limited in Space by their ability to actually see the target, this is also why Colony Lasers like those to shoot at the asteroids in CCA could fire from pretty much across the Earth system to hit what they want. Being Star Destroyers are much larger, and "White/Gray" they would have no issue seeing and engaging them from even longer distances than they would each other. PS when I mean colony lasers I don't mean the big super weapons. I mean individual space colonies actually had laser defenses to protect against space debris like asteroids extra. Oddly not even talked about much if at all until CCA but technically they should of existed in every Side. That being said, range in space in Gundam seems to be almost limitless and logically should be, as a few other Geeks in the community would agree you can not listen to statistics in Gundam as it's all broken and dont' even follow what you often see when watching the shows/movies, so you have to use observation on how ships/weapon systems perform in Gundam not what is officially written on paper and this is why in Gundam limitless range is incorporated a lot into the Franchise. Only on Earth do for example Beam Weapons have limited range because of the Planet's atmosphere and how it would rip a beam cannon/rifle round to pieces just from friction, it's why beam sniper rifles on Earth have to project a constant stream in their beam to have penetration/range. While in space a beam rifle like on say the Sinanju can just take long range pop shots like it's nothing like seen vs the Admiral Revil.
So this scenario is early OYW, before the Federation made MS. They'd still have fighters and Ball units. You left out some key details from this. No way would Zeon leave themselves open to figthers by sending all their suits to the ISDs. Also, I don't think they Zaku's move that fast as those speed would crush the pilot. Death Battle is not a reliable source. They are more agile and maneuverable, that is accurate. On a side note, SW ship shields work differently than most sci-fi. Its divided into two form ray and particle shields which block energy and physical shots respectively. While they can have both active, the power is divided between them. So when in combat, power is funneled to the ray shields entirely. That's why we see fighters and torpedoes always get so close and damage ships like they are not shielded.
Thanks for commenting, and you make a lot of great points! Looking back, I agree it makes sense Zeon would have some Zaku's for defense, however in The Origin OVA Dozel did not leave any to protect his Musai Squadron. Granted, that was against a known enemy - so I could see him deciding otherwise against the Empire. In regards to the Federation's fighter and ball units, it was a matter of simplifying it for Star Wars viewers with minimal exposure to Gundam. I felt I was already spraying them down with the ship classes and the very premise of mobile suits - was already a lot. In my experience, Gundam fans are familiar with Star Wars, but most Star Wars don't understand Gundam, so I decided to leave it at the most iconic pieces at play. Your critiques are great and definitely something I'd want to address in a follow-up video.
@@CrazyKnuckles It's important to note that this is the first fleet battle mobile suits were used in, and the Federation did not believe that Zeon was ready to use such weapons. There was a distinct lack of intel among their soldiers on how to engage mobile suits. For this reason, the mobile suits were kept in reserve and most were deployed from the rear Papua-class logistical support fleet which were just supposed to be carrying parts, fuel, and ammo as far as the Federation knew. Dozle's use of the Zakus in a fully aggressive manner was solely to shock the Federation, so they could not see the Zakus deploying by and large and were not prepared for them coming in at full speed. Many Feddie crew did not know they were facing 60 foot tall robots, due to their humanoid shape and had issues targeting them as well. The Musai were used as bait in this occasion. In the Origin, Dozle also used Minovsky Interference to attack with the Musai cruisers in a similar way to the Zakus as well, ambushing the Federation through the fog of war, where interference was so bad the visible light spectrum was shrouded almost entirely. This sudden high speed ambush technique is something he is fond of doing, and later on in the war he often launched smaller versions of this known as "Front Line Inspections" during his visits to the front with soldiers he'd just met for "fun." Normal Zeon doctrine is to keep the Musai as far back as possible and use them as fire support and to let their three Zakus fly forward as a screen to stop enemy fighters and mobile sits, and then to take out the enemy ships. This seems to be the standard practice for mobile suit use through out the Universal Century.
i think that mega particl cannons would also have a similar draining effect as Ion Weapons on SW sheilds. they have the properties of seriously powerful thermal blast and the ionized radtions that you alwasys see, soo i think SW sheild might drain much faster then if it was only agasint comparibly powerful "laser" cannons. lso minvsky Interfearnce would liely wreac havoc with the ISDs sesors just like it does in UC.
Monavski generators can shutdown most communication technology, especially in combat that only laser communication or trans-dimensional communication. But once the EFF and Zeon join they can share tech and development due to the massive threat and develop the end of the One Year War the mobile suits and tech. That is just the basic stuff for humans/oldtypes, with newtypes and ace pilots, the machines would be given a 30% increase to overclocking them by 3 to 10x for them to keep up with the super natural abilities or skills of those pilots. Even those that aren't Newtypes like, Cyber Newtypes, Inovaters, Inovates, Cordinators, X Rounders, Allia viyana system, ZERO system users and so on can be like that, 99% of the other timelines/universes of gundam have jamming tech that are the same as Minovski drives as their generators or just tech or armor. The one of the most powerful piece of technology in gundam from the UC timeline is Phycoframe and the Biocomputer/biosensor, they give the mobile suits and any machine using them far more power and a boost that even they do not understand and given a powerful Newtype they can even alter reality on a grand scale. Even not at full strength during the show and manga, the Turn A and Turn X can do a ton of damage to a lot of tech and life in the solar system with the Moonlight Butterfly as it can go through shield systems with the mixture of Nano Machines and energy of unknown origin from them. They carry and have an unknown number of nano machines in them so it would be hard to say that it would run out in a short period of time. That is excluding the fact they have shields and systems to shutdown and neutralize energy attacks or physical ones.
Also consider that this is just an expedition force and not the army, they would not come in full just because they lost 2 ships. They would however, relaunch the once damaged Star Destroyer (the EFF and Zeon would not let that ship go unscathed and damage it) with 2 lesser escort ships in a month while they plan out the attack. A month would be enough to get around late OYW tech to both sides and gather a larger force to fight them. So when the empire return, they are fucked beyond measure.
If the Galactic Empire were to attack during the Gryps Conflict / 1st Neo Zeon War, a time period considered the golden age of transformable mobile suits, said transformable MS would be very devastating to the ISD. Assuming the MS in their fighter forms are comparable to the X-Wings and A-Wings of the Rebel Alliance, they should be able to take advantage of what Rebel fighters call "Trench Run Disease" since ISDs don't have point blank defenses, and the MS can do a lot more when the transform on the ISD exterior since the turbo lasers won't be able to keep up. Since TIE Fighters and TIE Interceptors have no shielding, they're as vulnerable as any other fighter that mobile suits have crushed before. If they attacked during the age of miniaturized MS, it would be all the worse for the Empire. Though miniaturized MS are not as durable as the older and bigger ones, they have beam shields and are both faster and more agile than the ones from 0079 - 0100
Star wars has a limiting factor on the effective range of their main weapons however if you're using anything that is a projectile based weapon instead of particle-based weapon the range in space is basically infinite tell that object strike something effective range where the opponent cannot Dodge is greatly reduced but not nearly as much as a turbo laser from the Star wars universe
Darth Vader Star destroyers that followed the millennium falcon into the asteroid field survived for several months will be in constantly bombarded by multi-million time rocks I'm comparing them to nukes essentially the rock that destroyed the dinosaurs that's constant strikes
Started working on a video on this same topic today, then decided to look and see who else has covered it. You coverage is pretty good, though one thing you missed was that in Knights of the Old Republic they give an explanation as to why you see guys running around with physical blades when lightsabres/blaster rifles are around. The explanation is that due to the abundance of personal energy shields which are effective against blaster fire and lightsabres, but are of little use against physical attacks. We also see these with droidekas who are largely immune to blaster fire but vulnerable to grenades (And when shooting they stick the muzzle of their guns through the shield in other to fire). You also see this same principle in MS Gundam, as the I-Field of the Big Zam made it impervious to beam weapons but it was still vulnerable to physical weapons. This trend continued on through the series, such as in Stardust Memory. This means that the missiles from the ships as well as the 120mm MG, Bazooka, heat hawk, and anti-ship rifles of the Zakus would be able to go through the shielding of the ISDs. Combine this with later UC fleets using missiles that can create an I-Field cloud and have limited numbers of nuclear missiles on board as well as their decoys means that the later UC fleets (Such as in Char's Counter Attack) would actually do quite well even without mobile suits. I intend to more broadly cover other eras beyond just the early OYW, including touching on Wing and G Gundam. Though I suspect the conclusion is going to be the same. Though if nothing else was working Zeon could always do a colony drop on the ISD.
What if neo-zeon and Earth Federation around time of Charts counterattack would face off galactic empire? Unsure fleet size of both around that time but they are considerably more advanced since the one year war.
Mobile Suits are unable to survive re-entry into Earth's atmosphere from low-orbit. Even the Gundam, with its "indestructible" luna-titanium alloy, needed to deploy a protective film to manage it, and even then it was pretty close. The battle here takes place before the Gundam was developed, so we're talking about an even lower technology level. And, of course, neither the Federation nor Zeon have any kind of FTL capability (or even long-range slower-than-light; their entire civilization consisted of Earth and a few space colonies, the furthest of which was barely beyond the Moon's orbit.) Mobile Suit Gundam depicts a much lower-tech universe than Star Wars does, and a battle between them wouldn't even be close.
The Gundam might be able to survive re-entry. The issue is the pilot could not. The Adzam's Leader weapon could put out higher temperatures than re-entry if I recall, and the Gundam showed no outward signs of damage from this. The film got retconned, it instead used its shield to create the sort of plasma-shockwave modern ships make to divert most of the force of re-entry away, and a sort of coolant if I recall to keep the machine cold enough for the pilot to survive. Luna Titanium (and Gundarium) also has an internal structure which I best describe as "metal memory foam". It crumples more and more over time as force is applied to it, until it can no longer handle even mundane attacks against it. So there is reason to believe the armor would need to replaced from the buffeting shockwaves compromising it. Which is probably why they changed it to using its shield instead of a heat resistant film, as the film doesn't really make any sense. But its heat resistance properties allow it to remain utterly undamaged from how hot re-entry is alone. They did have the Jupiter energy fleet, and colonies established as far as Jupiter. But they don't burn the whole trip because fuel is still a concern, so it can take them the better part of a year under normal circumstances. Despite the lower tech with propulsion technology, their weapons technology by the end of the One Year War, at least on the scale of fighter craft, is superior to the Empire's during the original trilogy. They will someday have FTL and wormhole technology (as we eventually find out with Turn A Gundam), so the universe itself isn't particularly behind as a whole. Just this particular timeframe is when they are just beginning to figure out how to miniature beam weapon technology and get more out of their minovsky reactors. Despite lower propulsion technology, their space combat practices do appear to be.. vastly superior. Literally every mobile suit they produce has superior maneuverability versus the TIE Fighter, and even the lower Zaku II's machine gun is a lethal threat to it. There's no reason to believe that point defenses which struggle to bring down Y-Wing bombers could hope to stop a team of Zaku II's before they land on a Star Destroyer and basically turn it to scrap.
I kinda wish to see empire vs the OO universe since they're the only one who are ready to have first contact. And they have some sort of shielding as well.
Mobile suits are just superior to pathetic TIE fighters and would easily take out the weak points on the giant imperial ships. The Empire's only advantage is a bigger superweapon, which is also easily destroyed with the same mobile suits.
I speculate in the event of a war against the Empire, the MA-08 Big Zam might actually get mass produced. Because it's I Field Barrier Generator would be on par with shielding and thus might be seen as something of an equalizer or battleship killer.
The mass production version of the Big Zam drops the I-Field generator due to its over heating issues and implements a minovsky craft system, as the machine was originally intended to have. It uses the new anti-beam coating that was being developed at the time and experimentally applied to mobile suit shields. It's not as good as the later UC 0080's stuff but it's sufficient, to give it the protection it needs. It also drops the claw missiles and ring of anti-air beam guns, and instead uses a set of more traditional missile launchers for screening against smaller foes. An armored shutter is mounted in front of the main gun barrel to protect it from being shot down when not in use. Lastly, its overall profile is massively reduced with out the need for all of those weapons and fuel and such to move its enormous bulk. These models needed to stand still to fire, using a support strut to brace against the ground, as the recoil of the main gun is quite massive. But each still had the same fire power as the original Big Zam in terms of the main gun to my knowledge. No ship or fortification could have withstood an attack from a team of these things. Because they used an ablative coating to make beam weapons fight against themselves when they evaporated on hit, it's moot whether or not I-Fields would stop blaster weaponry. Because the coating would have definitely worked and given them the chance to absorb at least a single hit from their enemies almost regardless of the fire power, as it's more about attack duration than anything else. A similar machine would have performed as one of the multiple drone-bit parts that would have made up the Great Zeong, except I think it dropped the anti-fortress gun for a quartet of high output beam cannons so it could rapid fire on smaller, harder to hit targets, if I remember correctly.
Char is a Nu type and resistant to mind attacks, also, Vader cant breath in space or resist the power of a beam rifle. Beam weapons are like compressed solar flares. They are charged plasma. Vader gets all crispy and smokey from force lightning, now scale that up by like 100 at least and that's probably still not doing it justice. Plus, systems like the zero system, the unicorns, and many more enhance the abilities of the pilots. Even in the UC the pilots are on a whole other level than what we know as human. They can't do the things like in the star wars U but they can take the strain and are able to interpret all the information the gundam is feeding them and move them at will with almost instant reaction times. Vader is powerful, extremely so, but he would have so much going on and so many targets that the one he doesn't focus on is going to kill him to save the one he is currently focused on. He wouldn't change the events of the day much, maybe one extra gundam destroyed or possibly two. He was never giving commands to the ship or leading a battle strategy, he left that to the navy officers to do that work because he saw it as below his rank or level in the empire. Vader was arrogant and a bit entitled if you really watch his actions and see how he does things. He never liked being in the bridge of a ship during a fight. So he would just be a fun target in the one custom fighter in the bunch. And remember that the force can only be used to influence we. The weak minded, pilots no matter their rank or file were definitely not that, even the grunt suits were filled with strong willed people. There were a few spread out in the bunch that were weak, but that's uncommon.
If the Empire came back for round two, then how long would the Gundam alliance reverse engineer the Star Wars’ shields for mobile suits or ships? Plus which mobile suits would be around with Gundam metal?
really quick excuse punctuation. had a lot to type and im too lazy to make it look pretty lol. 4:05 : I Fields are used in the one year war. the most notable was on the big zam. But even on smaller scale MSG units have protection against beams with anti beam coating. This was mainly on shields to save costs but there were other ms that had it as well actually on the unit. Most of the ships in gundam had some form of anti beam coating. So yes I do believe a tie fighter could damage them it would not go down easy for each Magellan class ship. Thats also why Zeon created their ships was to burn through the defenses with the massive MPC that they holstered. 6:12 : "Cycler rifles were crude yet reliable rifles designed to fire solid projectiles. They could hit targets at extreme ranges and penetrate energy shields." literally a quick google search of the only known ballistic weapon (that I know of) in the star wars universe. A big oversight for this battle is Minovsky particles. They block targeting systems for the battle ships because of the density. Basically was the main counter for battle ships in the first place. Also... No GM's? seems kind of silly not to include them. The way I see this playing out is star destroyer begins fire on distant ships. as you stated.. when tie fighters roll out they wouldn't do the same damage as you said. due to minovsky particles messing with targeting systems for one. For two anti beam coating on the battleships that was also left out. three would be worse with GM's but we will leave them out for now. Due too the loss of targeting many less ships would be lost for both Zeon and federation sides. Using the information from the cycler rifle. the ballistics from Zeon would deal heavy damage to important parts on the star destroyers. Since the shields cant stop physical rounds. (assuming the same logic is used but on a battle ship/ms class level) this problem would be even further exaggeration with the use of the anti ship sniper rifles that zaku's can equip. For even longer range engagements ( this was specifically shown in origin which you used for many of your examples) basically to sum this up what you said would happen but with much MUCH less loss for federation and Zeon. But EVEN less if you include the Federation Gm's. all zeon would need to do is shoot out the shield generators then the feddies beam weapons would make quick work of the star destroyer. This is all one year war. the issue only gets worse the higher you go in UC timeline or god forbid bringing in any AU universes. But as you said with enough star destroyers they could eventually win. But you would need a hell of a lot more than 3. especially if you De-nerf the gundam armies and set them to full power of the one year war. that means gundams , gelgoogs , Big zam etc then this battle would need all the strength they could get.
Close call to tell the truth if happened at the very beginning of the Gundam UC universe, but later it could be harder battles. The development of super-weapons, like the Colony Laser or the Solar System could have inflicted severe damage upon the Imperial warships. There would be a wider range of mobile suit usage, especially high-speed models we have seen. The study of a captured Imperial warship and its crew and droids would grant the Earth powers access to more advance technology at least in knowledge, and where to look at. Any working Hyperdrives would grant Earth powers access to beyond the Sol System, one they could launch raids to capture Imperial hardware in early strikes or plain out buy the stuff, the civilian stuff and capture any military stuff.
Gundam can score a smaller victory but they will never win the war. As outlined here, the main advantage the Gundam Universe has is their mobile suits and that only. The Empire would see the Federation and Zeon as a true threat after such a battle and begin a full scale attack. Zakus are faster than a TIE fighter like you said. We can see this in Gundam the Origin as the Zakus are able to easily outspeed many mobile armors. However, I think you've underestimated the Imperial's TIE fighter numbers since the each ISP has tons of TIE fighter variants that they can deploy and simply overwhelm the Zakus. Zakus have very poor shielding and protection from laser weaponry and would easily be destroyed by a single shot from a TIE fighter. Additionally, with such poor protection against mobile fighters, Zeon's fleet would be wiped out very quickly in the fight considering the fact that the TIE fighters not only move faster than a Musai but also attack more rapidly which in turn causes more damage to the ships. This plus the poor shielding would render the Zeon fleet obsolete in the fight unless they can get some mobile armors to cover the ship. Lastly, if you're talking about before Battle of Loum, the ESFS and Zeon Space Force would be equipped with nuclear weaponry that would destroy this small fleet before it could begin running away. The TIEs would also be wiped out as well due to the sheer power and blast range of these weapons.
This is an interesting what-if scenario. I really wonder what it would be like if other Continuities of Gundam fought the Empire, say, some of the Mobile Suits, Fleets, and Characters from Seed, 00, IBO or Wing. I'd *really* love to see how Freedom Gundam or Gundam Barbatos would handle ISDs or TIE Fighters.
Strike Freedom would try to brute force through the ISD's shield with it's array of overpowered energy cannons Barbatos will straight up smash the shield generators and the bridge with a mace In the 00 timeline, they will only have a fighting chance after GN drive Tau is mass produced, and then mass-produced units suddenly have performance that rival the Gundams
I think you really forgot to take into account the EFF's Fighters. They didn't have MS at this point, but to completely shove aside the Saberfish is honestly not even fair. I doubt they'd do much, but from the EFF's Columbus class cargo ships (which were easily used as aircraft, mobile pod, and mobile suit carriers) I'm not going to give a specific maximum amount, but at the bare minimum these Columbus class ships could carry at least 10 Saberfish in each hangar (of which it has 2, so basically 20 Saberfishes). These Saberfish also possess 4 tri-pod missile launcher attachments that can be purged at will. They even had Anti-ship missiles available for loadouts. I'm unsure it'd still turn the tide in the U.C.'s favor, because I'm still in the camp that argues they'd probably lose here, even with my Gundam-biases. (Gryps War onward I think they'd win).
Char Aznable and other Zeonic Aces would appear like force users to most Imperial Pilots. Zeon will have a few Newtypes like Lalah Sune and Char capable of precognition and other abilities. Char would be with the main force at this point since it is prior to the battle of Loum, and as would Ramba Ral and the Black Tristars. This means you have at minimum 1 newtype Ace and 3 other Ace MS capable of destroying Magellan class ships by themselves. Zeon would also be able to disable most Imperial communications and targeting systems via Minovsky Particles and M-warheads. The Zaku Bazooka would be similar to missiles in terms of shield penetration, and as you said the MG would make pretty quick work of Tie Fighters. It would only take ONE MG round to disable a standard Tie-Fighter due to the sheer size and power those armaments have. MG Bullets are going to impact like small bombs. Also, if a Zaku Bazooka Round goes through the unshielded Hangar bay then that Star Destroyer might as well be finished. Those same Bazookas are shown to take out Salamis class ship with one direct hit. Star Destroyers are mostly armored with Durasteel which is said to be physically weaker than titanium but absorb blaster bolts more effectively. SO physical rounds are going to shred through Durasteel armor like paper as we've seen a Zaku Bazooka Destroy the Gundam's shield which is lined with Luna Titanium Both sides also have a ton of Nukes. They just don't use them in lore after the colony drop because they signed a treaty. Nukes of the time period are said to be capable of destroying entire colonies. The Federation also has multiple bases and cities on the Moon which harbor long range weapons. Zeon was so worried about these weapons that they used espionage and invasion to capture these territories. At the very least the Federation would have early prototype MS and Guntanks. Guntanks have an absurd range (In space even more so) and fire massive projectiles. I believe that the Federation would deploy Guntanks at some point during the battle (attached to the outer hull of their ships, acting like turrets).
OVERALL Great video. I enjoyed it very much and I think the maneuvers used are pretty accurate as to what would happen. There are A TON of factors and details to consider of course. Very fun video all around
I think that the empire has a great weak spot against the UC earth that you've ignored, and that's the minovsky particles. Those can interfere with long range communications and radars, and if there's too much of them, it can fry any electronics, and I think that's something the UC has more protection against, I don't really remember. Also nice video, this type of crossovers are interesting to me. I wonder how things would be if it was mid to late UC, probably more favorable to gundam I think tho, with all the mobile suits, specially the newtype piloted ones. Hell, don't even get me started with the AUs, like anno domini with the GN drive and the ELS or Post Disaster with all the energy weapon immunity on both mobile suits and ships.
Thanks for the complements! I’m glad you mentioned the Minovsky particles, I decide to omit them intentionally and I would like to explain my reasoning for that. First, to keep it simple for viewers unfamiliar with Gundam, and I wasn’t to what degree it should effect Imperial sensors. Star Wars already ignores physics a lot, so I felt their affect would come to my bias. So rather deal with that I decided, to keep to the raw engineering of each force. Which is one of things I love about each universe. As I get more models and Gunpla, I plan to do more UC content.
@@CrazyKnuckles It could be possible that these minovsky particles are basicly the equivalent of ion cannons, which star destroyers are likely defended against
Shame arent more gundam crossover fanfics, comics, and videos. It would be interesting see gundam story where earth & zeon having putting difference aside for far greater threat. Forcing divert resources to defend their system from alien threats. Or au where gundam left the sol system and start to colonize galacxy, finding it be very hard place. Suprised when found this vieo.
The thing that makes beam weapons in gundam so short range is the manovsky particles everything from the biggest ship to ms spread them by being turned on or just being idle in some cases factions have used the effect to spread more particles along with other defusing agents to greatly demisnish beam weapons
If we're using the whole OYW(one year war) tech, the empire(the OG trilogy) is pretty much screwed. Luna titanium, minovsky particles and anti-laser coating is a technology that in my opinion would be a gamechanger. In terms of shielding, there's the I-fields and materials that can tank most attacks. pre-antarcrtic treaty(which happened after loum) era has multiple early zaku variants as well as "enhanced" payloads(considering the damage decrease between origin and 0079 as well as nuke/colony drop ban, it is likely that some radioactive elements were utilized) in their 280mm rockets In terms of in-atmosphere combat, both EFF(earth federation forces) and zeon have the equipment for quick atmospheric deployment(salamis capsule, komusai, pegasus class ships etc.), ground bombardment and invasion(Gaw, medea and adzam mobile fortress). The matchups in the air would have mixed results as dopps and core fighters/core boosters do lack in thrust but both have properties that make up for it(a dopp can take off, fly and land even with major damage and FF-X7 core fighter can serve both as interceptor as well as a pre-base jabber MS(mobile suit) platform should core booster module be attached). Ocean environments are an easy victory for zeon(as they have superior amphibious capabilities-z'gok, hygogg and grublo are a powerhouse there) As for ground combat(not counting the mobile suits as those are pretty strong against), speeders can outmatch wappas(zeon's light patrol hovercraft) in terms of horizontal, but not verical speed and the integrated guns on imperial speeder can counter wappa only in an ambush. What will give EFF and zeon trouble will likely be the rx 200 tank(the walkers will likely perish to magella assault tanks, artillery or even the standard type 61 tank) since the main cannon is pretty powerful. however, more mobile units(light and heavy aircraft) would likely outrun the turret's turning speed. In space(using pre-antarctic treaty ships and ms just like in the video as late OYW tech would give EFF and zeon an overwhelming advantage), the empire would have an advatage in terms of ships, but would perish when faced with mobile suits(the MS at the time were the bugu, zaku 1, zaku 2, zudah, guntank and guncannon early type and likely a few gundam test types). The not yet banned nuclear weapons would give the mobile suits better firepower while older suits like the zudah and bugu could still cause major damage to ships(zudah for example is mobile enough that even if the engine exploded, the proximity to the star detroyers would shake them up). Asteroid fields would be where guntank and guncannon would shine. as for the zakus, the thrust on s type and early high mobility types are likely to bring ruin to already slow fighters and bigger ships If death star is accounted for, it could still be easy to wreck with sheer force even before it reaches Earth or its colonies. If there's already the colony laser or the solar laser from late OYW, it would be a powerful weapon to counter the death star The long-term empire victory is still likely resource-wise, but the tactic to invade planets to gather resources(as seen with M'quve's mines during one year war) would prolong the war by a lot. i still don't know how would the sith and bounty hunters interact with newtypes though
Exactly, and if you go by the manga version of The Origin the MS-06C is hardened against emp/radiation because its bazooka load-out uses nuclear rounds.
I can cover you on the Newtypes, as their basically the empathic, and more refined precognition version of force users, as it seems that they don't have to be focus on something in order to detect in coming attack or sensing something or someone. Marida Cruz show with her focus on one thing, but was interrupted when she sense her master to fall back. Another is when Char was able to sense so much crap to the point where even ordinary Newtypes aren't at the same level as Char in terms in sensing ability, but still above the average person. The one thing that force users have is Telekinesis as while Newtypes do have it, only powerful ones can do it without guided machines as ordinary ones required to perform their telepathic abilities. With even rarer ones seem to affect the reality around them, but it's minor as Judah was able to do things that should be impossible. They also have the ability to predict the future or see the future, but only possible by a powerful Newtype like Layla or Rita, two Newtype girls that were able to predict years in the future before it's happening. What really set the power gap is when Psycho Frame were involve as in BS level of a gap in power. Remember the reality warping abilities? Yeah, pair that with a fully awaken Newtypes and your facing literal god machines that bend the rules to their favor. comicvine.gamespot.com/a/uploads/original/11158/111584947/8751607-efqul6bvoaishqq.jpeg Like, this is coming from a rx-0 Unicorn Gundam, as in a 19-20 meter machine capable of warp the very fabric of space and time, along having a capacity of a universal destruction by destabilize the current dimension were in. The Psycho Frame also amplified their capabilities to the roof, as in I'm talking about reading the minds of all across planet earth, deflecting colony laser, see all time and more. So, facing ordinary Newtypes are just a bit more difficult to out predict as Newtypes seem to not need all of their focus to let their power loose, as well predict even time itself. But since their useless against the more practical combat without their Psychommu base equipment or just the Psycho Frame. But a Newtype with a Psycho Frame MS, then your asking Jedi and Jedi hunters facing what it is basically a reality warping, time manipulation, and even more powerful Psychic opponent that not even the Force can stand.
The tie fighters would be basically useless. I think you missed some important information about the entire gunman universe. Both the mobile suits and gundams have a coating that renders any laser tech just a light show no matter the strength. The beam weapons shoot charged plasma, which I think the imperial navy would initially think are laser based or weak as their shields would be okay at absorbing the beams at the further ends of their range. But soon those shields would start to weaken as the full barrage starts to overheat the hastily built shield gens. The empire had the resources, but often rushed projects and ship construction to a point that corners had to be cut everywhere by the events in a new hope. Tie fighters were basically death traps and only useful in a kamikaze style attack but even that would prove to be pretty much just a minor annoyance. As for the shields, the gunners on the star destroyers would need to see the target they are firing on, but with all the bombardment from the EFSF they wouldnt be able to achieve accurate fire. The shields would also start to take heavy damages as the earth federation ships started to close the distance. The weapons having a greater impact as they do till the shield gens overheat and shut down or outright explode as the destroyer is blasted into fragments and vaporized into a cloud of its former self, partly becoming a ring around the earth or its moon. The Zakus would absolutely decimate the cloud of tie fighters in the initial push. I have a feeling that the empires shields wouldn't stop any of the physical attacks based on the scenes and accounts of rebel fighters strafing the decks and con towers of destroyers inside their shield buffer, as well as other ships crashing into them. The empire would fall even if they had more capital ships. And if they came back with a massive army then the EFSF would likely have gundams and if they needed time to gather their forces it means they would be facing a totally different enemy. I also thought we were talking gundam vs. the empire and not Zakus and space ships?
beam coating gets developed after OYW, RX 78 series used lunar titanium which made it so resilient to Zaku attacks but Zaku's use traditional materials
@@Kubadaniels in one universe, yes. But in all of them lasers arent a thing because they do nothing. I'm not talking about beam weapons. Beam and laser weapons are totally different in many ways. One is just light in a concentrated point designed to heat things through electromagnetic radiation. But beams arent light. The visible light is caused by charged particles giving off what's called black body radiation, same concept of why traditional lightbulbs work or why steal glows after being pulled from a forge. Gundams are also non conductive so basically immune to electric weapons. Essentially Star was kinda has its science wrong, but if you go off what's written alone then you'll conclude that a single gundam could defeat the entire empire with just a beam sword. Even light sabers would essentially split their beam against a gundams armor or it would look like a flame against steal when it's not hot enough to cut it.
I noticed that you've mistaken the speed of the TIE/line Starfighters. You mistakenly chose the maximum atmospheric speed rather than it's maximum acceleration. The TIEs have maximum speeds of over 4000+ Gs, so the Zakus and EFSF ships are gonna have a hard time trying to shoot them down.
That's travel speeds. Their combat speeds are noticeably slower. Like, around WW2 fighter craft slower. This is probably because dog fighting at higher speeds is almost impossible. And bombing at those speeds makes it so you're as likely to drop bombs on your allied ships as you are the enemy's. Or it might be that they simply can't put power to their weapons, shields, sensors, etc when flying at those speeds. Remember the Falcon didn't pick up the TIE Fighters AT ALL while it was at cruising speed in A New Hope. And as soon as they engaged suddenly the Falcon was flying slow enough for the TIE's to easily strafe it repeatedly and much more quickly than they were before the fight began. It doesn't seem like these vehicles can really engage at higher speeds. A lot of Sci-Fi seems to have this problem where fighting at slower speeds at knife fighting distance is the ideal form of combat. Gundam doesn't do that, mind you. When there's no EM effect going on they'll snipe at each other from thousands of kilometers away.
I've always wanted to know this, cause the star wars universe and the Gundam universe have their own technological advancements, and their own weaknesses, and you better know that the StarWars universe is gonna be scared of giant "lightsabers" wielded by the mobile suits, I also like how in some ways MS are much more advanced then the starfighters, but also don't have lightspeed capabilities, if the two universes were to ever ally each other it would be catastrophic
In starwars both Shields on ships and the ones that a person can deploy on them self's can be penetrated by physical projectiles. The shields stop blaster bolts because they are energy/plasma based. however a slug thrower a weapon in starwars thats like our modern day guns shoot a solid projectile and isnt stopped by the shields. so zaku weaponry that shoots a solid projectile would also go through the shields.
You also forgot to factor in that Federation at the beginning of the 1-year war also used Columbus-class, which some would have been fitted to launch FF-3F Saberfish fighters, which would pose a significant problem for the TIE fighters. Even if you don't count the RB-79 Ball. I would say this is a reasonable time frame to reference Gundam VS Star Wars. After the 1 yr war or later down the US timeline for that matter, you would also have to factor in Newtypes and the use of Funnels which would have made it completely once-sided.
I think technically the ISD's shields could only block beam fire, as there are multiple cases where physical projectiles/vehicles can get through (one example of this kind of situation is the death stars exhaust port, which was shielded but couldn't stop the physical proton torpedoes)
Yes I kind agree compared to star trek shield which was basically reinforcing the skin of the ship so that it would be harmless against physical object star destroyer are rarely attack by those since their universe battle doctrine are heavily based on energy type weapon system
i respectfully disagree, the targeting capability's of ships in starwars in limited, they operate gunnery crews like world war 2 ships when the feds and zeon can actually target ships accurate, when their ISNT minovsky particles in play. With minovsky particles dispersed, the star destroyers couldnt hit shit at long range or medium ranges, they have to close to brawling range to have any accuracy.
@@alphamon701 You're welcome Oh yeah I forgot, the 1st Neo Zeon's mobile armor the Queen Mansa has a variant of the I-Field that redirects beams back at the shooter
@@alphamon701 Oh yeah, I forgot to mention, not much of a spoiler since the U.C. story about mini MS has long been done since the 90s. Though personally I prefer their regular sized counter parts
Commenting on the ending of the video. This scenario and what if is so cool, it's even oddly fitting if you start to make a fanfic of it Imagine a history of the Empire putting investigation and force to discover again the planet of their origin as form of legitimacity. Again a topic usual on Gundam, the earth as a contested place Pumping out the fanfiction here, the rebels coming to earth to give aid and information of what the state of the galaxy is The more than sure conquest of the earth by the empire it'll be! Zeon prolly actually vibing with the rebels. They see them as right for their philosphies. All of this event, granting them an akward treaty They're equipping their colonies with the Warp system of traveling While at the same time, there'll be people at both bands who yearn for the earth, and won't leave it. Given them all of Zeon's technology, no hard feelings but left at their luck Might this people leaving Earth change the tides of the galaxy war? We just could wait, for the RX-78 speedrun destroying the Death star any glitches%
Great video man, I'm a big fan of both franchise. And I love that you "do your homework" and analyze everything on both gundam and Star Wars tech. And see who would win.🤟😍
Good video but personally for me this out come is only if Zeon and the Earth federation had seen the threat coming I think it would be a little more bewildering for Zeon and the Earth federation to see three massive star cruisers drop out of light speed and not knowing who they are and what they want would be very scary that said if Zeon was the first to have an encounter with them because Zeon owns side 3 they would try to make contacted but would probably think it might be the Earth federations new weapon that said side 3 would be either taken or destroyed as space colonies don't stand a chance against star destroyers which might weaken Zeon as a whole because most of the higher ups in the Zabi family such as Degwin and Gihren would probably be dead on top of that space travel in the UC mobile suit universe take a lot longer then the star wars universe do to light speed the empire would probably have done a lot of damage and made to the earth long before any force could stop them or the Earth federation knew what hit them and personally I don't think Darth Vader would have passed up an expedition like this though he might that said it might happen as you say but I think Zeon and the Earth federation would be more psychologically and physically devastated and if the war carried on at some point the empire would make their own mobile suits you make good points but not necessarily if Zeon and the Earth fedys did not see it coming
We also need to take note that force sensitive pilots/combatants can easily change the outcome of the battle. Namely, if they are not prohibited from doing so, they could use the force to literally force the Gundam Ships to collide with one another and destroy the fleet while doing so.
lmao citing Death Battle as a source. This fight takes place in space and, I don't know if you know this or not, there is no resistance in space. Reaching speeds of thousands of kilometers per hour isn't difficult when friction is removed from the equation. The real determinant factor here is acceleration, or how fast can you get to those speeds. The canonical acceleration of the MS-06F Zaku II is .59Gs (or 5.79 m/s²). Wookiepedia lists the TIE/LN's (the standard Tie Fighter) acceleration as 4,100 Gs (or roughly 40,200 m/s2). There is no way a Mobile Suit can compare in terms of speed with a Tie Fighter. Considering we have seen TIE series fighters make incredibly sharp banks and turns at high speeds, they likely have the maneuverability to match. Your listed speed of 1200 km/h for the Tie Fighter is explicitly stated on Wookiepedia as being it's atmospheric speed, ie. in an environment with atmospheric resistance acting against the ship. Also in the canon short story Raymus, from the anthology A Certain Point Of View, the Tantive IV (Princess Leia's ship at the beginning of A New Hope) at full non-hyperspace acceleration could cross 0.25 parsecs (or 0.81 light years) in just 8 minutes. A light corvette is capable of exceeding the speeds of just about any UC-era space craft WITHOUT resorting to hyperdrive. The Imperial-1 Star Destroyer, Devestator, easily caught up with a fleeing Tantive IV in Episode IV: A New Hope, which means that class of Star Destroyer is faster than that. You're also assuming parity of weapons, when they are only comparable if you purposefully low-ball Star Wars weapons. The high end goes into hundreds of megatons of TNT per shot, possibly reaching single digit gigatons. Hell, this would have been moot prior to 2014 back when 200 GIGATON PER SHOT on a turbolaser was canon. Even if you were to take an average of possible yields determined in fan calculations made in good faith, you would still have a weapons system that vastly exceeds what OYW-era UC (and possibly even later) could accomplish. If you accept higher strength weapons as a reality, by extension that would mean shields designed to withstand such weapons, which really makes things that much worse for the combined EFF and Zeon fleets.
TIE Fighters don't fight at those speeds, exactly. Although they can travel at high speeds, they're forced to fight within the limits of what amounts to mostly average or below average pilot reaction times. This is probably why droid star fighters were usually seen as superior to manned star fighters even when they were very cheaply produced. They also have very poor maneuverability in general, despite their sharp banking, since they clearly have difficulty coming to a stop or turning mid combat versus a normal space craft, or mobile suits which use an AMBAC system. Even at the high end, TIE Fighters are not really suitable opponents for something which can move in 3-dimensions as mobile suits can, and given their lack of armor, they're basically going to suffer the same issues the Federation's Saberfish had. The early model Zakus are putting out A LOT of shots, versus their small number of attacks, can simply move to the side to dodge, and can easily lead their shots or just kick a TIE which makes the mistake of flying too close. As for firepower, while the Federation never seemed to really care so much about it since they had a numbers advantage, Zeon knew the only way to really win was to take out Jaburo. Which is under over a kilometer of dirt, rock, and armor. Three weapons were developed to tackle this problem directly. The Big Zam, the Apsalas, and the Solar Ray. What we know is that the Big Zam was equipped with the most powerful beam gun developed at that time in the war, and the Apsalas failed to compete with it. We know the Solar Ray is more powerful than the Big Zam, and uses a non-descript laser array of some kind. We don't know much more powerful each is over the other excepting that a similar weapon to the Solar Ray was built by the Jupitris Empire, and was expected to be able to fire from Jupiter Orbit to hit the Federation headquarters of Jaburo in Brazil and destroy it. The Apsalus II had a gun estimated to be able to punch through Jaburo's defenses from atmosphere over a period of a several seconds, and the final Apsalas III's gun deleted an entire mountain with a single shot. The Big Zam is more powerful than that, but it never has a chance to make the push on Jaburo, as it is destroyed during the Battle of Solomon. We never get to see it use its guns on anything other than ships. The Big Zam was intended to enter mass production, with smaller, harder to hit units thatcould fly and enter and exit atmosphere as well as maintain the fire power of the Big Zam's main gun. Zeon never got the chance due to the fall of Solomon. But I think we can surmise from what we know about these three weapons systems that no matter where you rank it, they certainly had the fire power even in the One Year War to handle even high end Star Wars with their small craft. As of UC 0087/0088, the development of large scale ship mounted weapons was initialized by the AEUG, although I'm not sure why, as the Federation had moved its base from Jaburo by that point. It scuttled Jaburo with the use of a nuclear weapon which destroyed the entire base, and penetrated its defenses at multiple points along the system, which stretched for dozens of miles. I don't know if there's a way to rate it from the one scene we get of it. The large scale ship weaponry has been depicted as being able to vaporize an entire colony in a single shot. Not disabled, damage, or simply 'destroy' as happened to them when nukes were still allowed to be used in the One Year War, but totally vaporized in a ball of plasma. We see the Argama use this weapon early on in ZZ Gundam while it's still being tested. A more advanced gun is mounted on the Nahel Argama, and is used to push an entire asteroid base, Pulau, when it is fired on the fortress. It's effectively pushing an entire city. Traditionally in Gundam, ships are supposed to be firing support and cover fire for their deployed mobile suits to give them some degree of protection. They don't often close on each other following the One Year War. I don't think putting a big gun on a ship is a good idea, tactically, for Gundam vessels because they have no means of disabling each other like Star Wars does with ion weaponry. Their only e-war weaponry really comes in the form of their ability to scatter minovsky particles to pollute an area. Which means they aren't ideally suited for brawling since beam weapons are considered stronger than nukes usually, and no effective defense outside of hot running and expensive i-field generators exist at the time. So you're as likely to get hit as the enemy is when you start fighting with ships, and their most important role is as tender to the mobile suits between battles. You want to keep them away from the action... But, I think we can safely say that if they have the ability to mount weapons which can totally vaporize a space colony with walls dozens of meters think, and whose structures are something like 5+ miles wide by 30+ miles long, then they have the ability to hurt Star Wars ships pretty severely eventually, and they definitely had super weapons as early as the One Year War which could do the job as well. Although UC Ships never have the capacity to match SW ships in terms of speed, their minovsky cloud I think makes up for it, since the Star Wars ships can't function properly once they come within a few hundred kilometers of them, and their preference is for knife fighting anyway. Being unable to detect where your enemy is kind of makes it hard to engage them. Gundam armor materials seem to be superior to Star Wars armor materials, although they lack shielding technology in the One Year War outside of I-Fields, and their fire power, especially on the small craft scale, exceeds TIE Fighters on an exponential level. It seems clear to me that all dog fights will go to the Gundam side, and any engagements they have will be on the Gundam side's terms, with communications, guided weapons, targeting, and possible shields all being disrupted. Navigation will also be heavily hit, all electronics on ships will malfunction, and they will likely suffer significant attenuation to all ray weapons of any variety. That's the nature of minovsky pollution. Droids especially will suffer. Given that small craft routinely take down big ships in Star Wars to the point that they are responsible for more big ship kills than big ships themselves, and we know Gundam small craft are better than TIE Fighters, and we know they will always be at knife fighting ranges, and we know the big ships will almost certainly be heavily hampered.. I'm not sure I'd be able to say that even with high balling it that the Empire would be able to win even a single naval engagement with the Gundam forces. It just begins to stack too heavily in Gundam's favor. The only advantage the Imperial forces have here is that they'd be better at running away.
@@onigojira Addressing your 1st paragraph, first, please provide your evidence that TIE Fighters are incapable of fighting at those speeds. Even if it were unfeasible for them to fight at relativistic speeds, the point of the matter is that TIE Fighters are capable of higher speeds at higher accelerations than any of their OYW counterparts. As for their maneuverability, again, they make hard banks and right-angle turns at unfathomable speeds. Physically speaking the amount of force required to make such a turn at such speeds is insane. Further you are also assuming that Star Wars fighters are only capable of their "World War II dogfighting flight patterns." Their are countless examples in the non-film canon of starfighters doing things like cutting thrust, continuing on inertia, and doing 180 turns to fire behind them. Again, performing these maneuvers at the sort of speeds we're talking about would not be possible if the TIE Fighter weren't "maneuverable." Also if you for any reason think stopping in the middle of a fight is a good thing, then brother I have a tractor beam with your name on it. Addressing your 2nd paragraph: A Zaku II could, theoretically, damage a TIE Fighter as it is made of a titanium alloy of some sort. However, please provide the evidence that a Zaku II or derivative is capable of hitting a target that is smaller, faster, and can engage at a further range than it. Addressing your 3rd paragraph: Jaburo has never faced the possibility of being bombarded from orbit, repeatedly, with weapons that at minimum are mini-Hiroshima's and at maximum 1,000 times more powerful than the Tsar Bomb. In both Legends and modern continuity it is shown to clearly be within a Star Destroyer's capability of destroying underground facilities from orbit. You also seem to be lacking some basic knowledge of the One Year War era here. The Big Zam was never created with the intention of attacking Jaburo. It was but one of many attempts by Zeon at creating a wonder weapon that would win them the war (much like the Nazis from which Zeon was loosely based on) and wouldn't have been complete as of the time of this scenario. The Solar Ray was an Earth Federation superweapon that was essentially a giant solar mirror, but the weapon wasn't completed until the end of the war so wouldn't factor into this. I'm not sure which weapon you are referring to with regards to the Jupiter Empire, but again, that wouldn't be until almost a century after the period this scenario takes place. In other words, none of those matter. Addressing your 4th paragraph: The Apsalus program wouldn't come to fruition until the end of the war, which again, is not part of this scenario. Addressing your 5th paragraph: Again, the Big Zam and any mass-produced variants that may or may not exist, are irrelevant to this scenario. Addressing your 6th paragraph: I don't think you have. As I have stated, repeatedly at this point, none of the weapon systems you've described would have been ready to put into service at this point of the war. If you have to pull in something from later in the timeline to earn your victory, then that is all but a concession that the combined EFF and Zeon fleet would lose. However, I will entertain your points with the following; the mobile armors you described do have formidable firepower. The unfortunate problem is the main weapons of the Big Zam and Apsalus series are shown as requiring some amount of charge time before firing. In the time it takes these mobile armors to prepare to fire, the Imperial squadron would have fired of dozens of shots of equivalent firepower. Their is also the question of their effective range. While the Apsalus II was impressive with its SIMULATED performance, it was still firing from within the Earth's atmosphere. We have regularly seen Star Destroyers in other materials bombard targets from various non-atmospheric orbits. Another significant problem is that the mobile armors described are seemingly incapable of full movement when charging their weapon, which leaves them vulnerable to attack. Addressing yout 7th paragraph: Zeta Gundam era developments are irrelevant for the purpose of this scenario. I think you are referring to the large Mega Particle Cannon of the Arghama, which again, suffers from the same problems as the Mobile Armors you talked about earlier. Addressing your 8th paragraph: Again, you are talking about weaponry that does not exist at the time of the scenario. I have watched little of Zeta or ZZ and mostly know the general plot beats and mechanics. However, I do not recall there being a non- Solar Ray or Colony Laser method to one-shot a colony during that period of UC (except for nuclear weapons). Can you please provide an example of one of those moments for my curiosity? It's also quite funny that you are impressed that the Nahel Arghama moved an asteroid with it's main gun, when Star Destroyer's typically DESTROY asteroids with their main guns. Addressing your 9th paragraph: Nearly all of this is just rambling speculation if I'm being honest. The only thing of real merit you bring up is the fact that the EFF and Zeon capital ships are ill-prepared for this encounter. Addressing your 10th paragraph: As I said in another discussion ongoing in this comment section, I do not believe Minovsky Particles will have any significant impact on Imperial sensor systems. Minovsky Particles are explicitly stated as effecting the low-frequency range of the electromagnetic spectrum. In various canon works, we see Star Wars sensors detect various forms of radiation which would indicate they operate across both low- and high-frequencies. Star Wars sensors have also shown the capability of feats such as determining the presence of living organisms on a vessel with relatively accurate count and detecting changes in local gravity fields. Neither of those feats would be possible on systems that relied entirely on low-frequency EM readings. It is highly likely that Star Wars sensors would only be minimally hindered at worst. With regards to armor, you betray your own ignorance of the material. While Luna Titanium, the material used for the armor of the RX-78-2, is an impressive material, it was ultimately rendered a moot point by beam weaponry. When every potential enemy could carry a portable battleship cannon, the design philosophy of Mobile Suits moved away from layers of armor towards greater speed and maneuverability. By the time you get to the 2nd century UC, we see Mobile Suit design shrinks and continues the focus on avoidance of damage. Disregarding that later UC designs are irrelevant here, the Mobile Suits in the scenario, the lowly Zaku II, relies on a basic steel alloy. You don't need Hiroshima yield weapons to take that on. Again, as I explained earlier, I do not believe the Imperials will have any real problems from Minovsky Particle fields. I also do not believe it will effect their electronic equipment. First, we know Minovsky Particle interference is not that dangerous to electronic systems because we see warships, shuttles, and Mobile Suits operating in Minovsky dense areas without catastrophic issue. Second, the Empire exists as a military organization in a universe where Ion Cannons and advanced ECM (Electronic Counter Measures) are a THING. It is not unreasonable to assume that the electronic systems of a Star Destroyer are shielded to some degree to attempt mitigating Ion blasts and other forms of electronic warfare. It is likely that would be sufficient to protect against damage from Minovsky fields. Third, all of this is predicated on the idea that Minovsky Particle fields would even be capable of going through Imperial shielding. At most the TIE Fighters are the only fleet element that will have a possibility of an issue, but as I've stated, I find it highly unlikely. With all of this taken together, the Imperial fleet has the absolute advantage in speed, range, shielding, and firepower (even if you go with the lowest possible estimate, the Star Destroyer is firing weaponry as strong as the Mega Particle cannons at a faster firing rate, more accuracy, and greater range then the opposing force). The vaunted maneuverability of the Mobile Suit doesn't much matter when their opponents are capable of obtaining workable targeting data from their sensors.
@@MutantHeadcrab - Literally every movie where they don't fight at those speeds. And the games. And the comics. They can fly in a straight line at those speeds but it's kind of like trying to take a turn at your maximum speed in a car. It's a stupid idea you keep the pedal to the medal when what you need is finesse. We can visibly see they don't fight at those speeds. Their relative velocities to each other are pretty much never more than roughly a few hundred miles per hour. Your statement is so the contrary of literally everything we've seen that it makes me question if you actually watch or consume Star Wars media beyond just reading numbers in some cut-away picture book somewhere. I don't mean to be an asshole when I say that but what you've stated is just so incredibly to the contrary to the vast glut of available media both before and after the Disney purchase that I don't know how you could possibly take that stance if you actually saw any of that unless you were purposely being disingenuous in your comment. Banking is not the same as coming to a stop, turning around, being able to fire behind you, etc. It's not as good. No matter what way you look at it. TIE Fighters also blow up when they so much as nick something. Don't "acceleration = durability" me when we know they're held together by little more than the well wishes of their pilots. TIE's have a reputation for fragility for a reason. There's almost nothing to them. To my knowledge, there are no examples of TIE Fighters fighting as if they are in vacuum. All examples I have seen to date, over the decades, is of them fighting like they are WW2 dogfighters in space. Saberfish are literally smaller and faster than Zaku II's and they slaughtered them. Mobile Suits use visual based targeting systems due to the nature of minovsky interference. But this is still limited in range depending on the density of minovsky particles in a particle area. When at combat density, you can't reliably target or hit targets very far out. With no such interference, mobile suits can and do engage targets at tens of thousands of kilometers. Presumably, TIE Fighters can as well. Because what they're doing is just firing at thruster flares, IR signals, etc. Simple things any sensor suite should be able to pick up on in space when there's nothing to muck about with your reception of them. The TIE's speed isn't really an issue during approach, since it can't engage in traditional horizontal juking which mobile suits (and most mecha) can do to make themselves difficult to hit. No matter how you look at it, mobile suits are just the better choice. The only way Zeon can win the war is to take Jaburo. All projects inevitably lead to attacking Jaburo. I don't know why you would be so daft as to assume I'm making shit up when they flat out make it clear at multiple points in the lore that the goal is to attack Jaburo, and they keep making anti-fortress weapons with the capacity to do this. That's just insulting, man. They talk about it A LOT. It's a plot point in like three different shows. That is their only way to win the war besides the (illegal) Astaroth project. I'm not sure how you got it in your head that they don't matter, either. I also don't know why you'd bring up that Star Destroyers can function as buster bunkers when I never said that they were not. The entire point was to show that technology exists even during the One Year War to create small craft which can completely decimate even Super Star Destroyers. The Solar Ray is a colony laser. The Solar System is the mirror array. About the only thing I got wrong was that the Jupiter colony laser wasn't built until Crossbone. It wasn't meant to take out Jaburo. It was meant to "destroy the planet." Although that might just mean wiping out all life on it as opposed to actually destroying it. The Big Zam requires no charge time. It just fires. I suspect this is a big reason why the Apsalas project was canceled and the Big Zam was not despite the two being so similar. But I don't have any lore to back it up. It's just the only reason I can think of as to why it managed to stay funded and Apsalas got cut off. I'm not sure why you think a few months of time isn't something that will be in the equation when wars take months to years to get through. You can't act like the simulated performance isn't based on actual numbers they pulled from data they took on it. Your statement is also moot since it was firing in atmosphere, where the nature of megaparticle weapons imposes severe beam attenuation problems. Beam weapons work better in the void of space. Beyond that, the Apsalas II's gun pales in comparison to the Apsalas III's, and that's not even supposed to be as powerful as the Big Zam's. The Big Zam also never had to stop to fire its gun. The Apsalas III had balance issues because they jerry rigged it. None of the big mobile armors besides it showed this issue. The mass produced Bigros in particular are well known for their ability to move at high speeds while firing their heavy beam gun. You keep going on about how it's pointless to talk about later UC tech, but your own comment addresses later UC. Did you forget that you said that? The Empire is 100% vulnerable to minovsky interference. The vehicles you cite in Gundam are specifically shielded and some even produce their own particles. Non-shielded equipment cannot function normally, and the visible light spectrum is even shrouded. They exist in a setting where Ion Weapons, ECM, EMP, etc all work amazingly well against anything they're pointed at. They have no defense against this. It's going to not just mess them up, it might render their vehicles totally inoperable to the point that they're just floating space debris. That's boring to talk about, so while I think that's the most likely scenario, I don't really want to discuss it any further than minovsky interference having its typical nasty effects. The first time the Hyper Mega Particle Cannon is tested in ZZ Gundam it destroys an entire colony. Episode 17, it also seems to vaporize a bunch of asteroids in the way as well, although I don't know how big they were. It strikes the colony, and then completely erases it. The 9th Paragraph where I say that in the UC0080's they'd have ship mounted weapons that can one shot Star Destroyers? Yeah, I'd ignore that point too if I were you. =) Zaku II armor is flatly better than any TIE model's to my knowledge. Titanium is only one component of it. You kind of go on at length about how suits drop Gundarium in favor of cheaper materials due to the power of beam weapons but that doesn't really have an impact on anything I said, I think. Although if you really wanted to go on about that, there's no weapon any mass produced Imperial small craft carries to my recollection which could actually hurt the Gundam, or anything else which incorporated Luna Titanium as an armor material. Your assumption is that the Star Wars side is going to win because you're comparing Musais to Star Destroyers. You're making the same mistake the Federation did. Whichever side has the better small craft wins. That's all it comes down to. Once the Zakus have made mince meat of the TIE's, the Star Destroyers really can only hope to turn around and run before they let the mobile suits close on them. If it gets to the point there's GM's and Gelgoogs flying around, they're firing weapons that turn Luna Titanium armor to butter where megaton yield nuclear armaments failed to do so. They'll carve open Super Star Destroyers faster than the TIE Droids did.
@@onigojira These comments have made me realize why I got out of the nerd community of comparing fictional civilizations. We become so consumed with the idea of defending a beloved franchise, but to what end? What do we gain as human beings in debating wether one fictional franchise is "better" than the other? No, the real winner of this conflict are the corporations who own these franchises. It benefits corporations for consumers to fraction into brand name cliques. Buying licensed product to show solidarity; support that goes unappreciated as only the money you spent matters. That is to say we are not free of sin. Why am I not making a rebuttal video? Why is no one here creating a written work or drawing or any other artituc idea to express their beliefs? It is because we are under the thumb of global hegemonists that want to suppress our creativity. Otherwise, we would realise the shackles of this false world they have built around us, literally, as we are trapped in a simulation designed to maximize human suffering. They conspire to break us, marginalize us, and ultimately reduce us to malleable puppets unwilling to question our cage. Also if I'm going to support a giant robit show, It's going to be good giant robot show like Code Geass.
This really all comes down to deflector shield technology. For the most part we know way more about some franchises deflector shield technology compared to other franchises.
Beam weaponry in Gundam actually has unlimited range as well. The problem is that Earth's atmosphere diffuses the charged particles. In order to bombard Earth you would need a superlaser style beam rifle. Which was the plot of Steel seven and the original purpose of colony lasers.
Bruh, the ISD's 2 had over 120 guns, among wich 6 octuple barbette turbolasers, able to cripple any ship in a few blows if unshielded, plus ion cannons to desable enemy shields and ships and a wide array of turbolasers and some torpedo launch tubes. Plus, the isd could literally focus fire in their front, this means that the enemy ships would have 120 guns pointed at them, most of wich can VAPORIZE large asteroids in one shot. Furthermore, turbolases had a rate of fire of a shit every 2 seconds, a very high rate compared to what we see in the zeon(i think you write it like that) or earth federation ships. And yes, unless they fired slugs from a very big rail guns, phisical objects were blocked, we saw an isd resosting to the pounding of asteroids while travelling trough the asteroid field at Hoth, they don't last forever, but they last for a while. The isd's trumped over the other two factions ships. Also also, the ISD didn't just carry 72 tie fighters, but 72 tie line, wich translated to (usually) 48 tie fighters (agile, nimble, but literal glass cannons) 12 Tie bombers 12 tie interceptors Creating an effective and dangerous force for those suits to overcome, especially since the interceptors could demolish cargoships twice or thrice the size of the suits with a few blows, we saw it in rebels. I think that you should've researched more about the isd, not a bad video, just slightly inaccurate.
Hi Michele, thanks for commenting! You've brought up two excellent points I want to touch on! First, the rate of the fire on ISD, I think it depends on what you reference. In the original trilogy, I don't think were shown turbo lasers from an ISD firing that fast. (They put on out a lot lasers, but it's hard to say how many of those lasers were fired from the same cannon). However in Rebels, specifically Thrawn's bombardment, they definitely can. I was thinking of the firing rate in the movies. Since we're talking about the Turbo lasers, yes if the Gundam fleets came head-on to the Star Destroyers, where every gun could fire at them, they would be destroyed. However, this all depends on where they approach from. In the video, I had the other fleets approach from a flanking position, reducing their exposure to only half the guns. This seemed fair to me because, the front would be suicide, and approaching from the bottom (where we aren't shown nearly as many guns) would be too easy. I believe the scenario I chose was the most fair to both Universes. Second, the TIE Fighters on board, that is something I came across in my research, but I left it out for a few reasons. 1) TIE Interceptors, their presence depends if we are talking Star Wars Legends or Disney Canon. In Legends, they don't show up until late in the Galactic Civil War, but in Rebels they are present before the battle of Yavin. So their inclusion was a toss-up. 2) TIE Bombers, if they were included they would've destroyed the other capital ships, but they wouldn't do well against the mobile suits (from my experience of Star Wars games, TIE Bombers are just too big a target). I left it at the TIE Fighters because they certainly would've been there and would've had the most impact against the greatest threat in Gundam, mobile suits. Overall, I agree with the sentiment - Star Destroyers kill all other capital ships. But in the end, it was the mobile suits that were the biggest influencer on the outcome. , so I simplified things (on both sides) to focus on that.
@@CrazyKnuckles hm, i see your point, the imperials should've sent in some lance class frigates to take care of possible fighter, or in this case mobile suits, but they rarely cared about starfighters (and it showed). Tho one thing, wouldn't the suits be demoloshed by the cannons once they get too close to dodje? Not that that would chamge things too much, but still, something that came to my mind. Other thing is, while the flanking would've helped the two fleets out, they stiĺl had 180 guns each to deal with, wich is a lot still (from how i saw the three ships positioned against the enemy fleets), but we could assume that the zeon and EA used metals that were somewhat similarly durable as Durasteel, tho it doesn't seem to be the case by what i have been able to see in most parts of the show, but then again, i am not much of aknowledged in gundam lore, so i may be mistaken in my assumtpion.
@@michelecastellotti9172 Yeah, if the Imperials brought Lancer class frigates with them, it definitely would've made huge difference. I believe a turbo laser hit would vaporize a mobile suit, but I assume they would focus on the ships and leave mechs to the TIE Fighters. I imagine that's the naval doctrine the Empire instills in it's navy crew (pairing each weapon with what it does best: use the big guns against large targets, and through TIE Fighters at the small stuff). The materials part actually could get pretty interesting. Gundam doesn't get to specific on the ships, but many mobile suits are made of "Gundarium". Obviously it's just a name to answer why it's strong - but what's cool is the Bandai (the company that owns Gundam) released a model kit line using a unique metal alloy mixture and they called the alloy "Gundarium". It includes Titanium, Yttritum, and Aluminium. The crazy thing is Yttritium is actually used to increase the strength of metals. So yeah, that doesn't answer how strong it is, but it's fascinating a company takes its own lore so seriously.
I always loved idea of a space faring faction in star wars having mobile suits and technology similar to both Uc & Cosmic era. Mobile suits would be game changer if was introduced to the star wars univesre. Could you do similar battle with ms and ships from zeta era, chars counter attack era, or gundma unicorn era? Also what is range of beam weapons in gundam?
Lol, many people have.... I omitted them here because I was unsure to what degree they should effect Star Wars tech. It reasonable to assume minovsky particles effects it to some degree, but Star Wars doesn’t attempt to follow physics - so I kept to to raw fighting potential of their respective tech
@@CrazyKnuckles That might change the equation here because it affects radio communication and radar, so the empire force will not be able to fight or organize. After all, Minovsky particles was THE justification in the UC gundam universe for using close combat mobile suits (aka giant robots) instead of fighter jets. Totally not because some toy company wants to steal our money. BTW, when I saw the title of the video I thought it was about how Japanese borrowed the light saber idea and gave it to 18m tall machines. But it turned out to be way more fun than that. Great job!
The empire has 1 Sith as the other does not pilot and sits on his a**. Both Zeon and Federation have new types. If a A-Wing can take down super star destroyer by raming the bridge than average a average mobile suit pilot would just shoot the bridges as that is a common tactic anyway. Star destroyers can barely hit a x-wing let alone hit a Zakus moving 5 times faster. The Empires only hope is Thrawn to outwit the federation and Zeon but he’s most likely not around. Let’s be real. The Empire is ran by mostly idiots who don’t know battle and we’re given high positions because there rich. I do not think the Empire has chances if it’s fighting Unicorn and Banshee. I mean the unicorn could just go into crystallized mode and turn back time on all the Empires stuff.
If the this battle took place at the end of the one year war like around the time of the battle of A Boa Qu, both Zeon and the EFF would solo an imperial fleet.
I think it would be fair to put 1 v 1 battles not 1 v 2 maybe Galactic Empire vs The Principality of Zeon and then The Resistance vs The Earth Federation,also Char Aznable is the Japanese Darth Vader
Can you do more of this, here my list in my mind - Titanfall versus Gundam (IMC vs Zeon and EF) - COD Infinite Warfare versus Gundam (UNSA or SDF vs Zeon and EF) - Halo versus Gundam (UNSC or other vs Zeon and EF)
Pre watched: As every gundam gen the early era's would probably be a quite even. However pass the gun wing and you probably get massive disadvantages for the Empire. Also the gundam's shields have definitely stopped beam weapons (excluding dus ex super kill everything plot weapons)
Ok, so beam weapons aren't laser weapons. And the armor used are practically immune to all laser based weapons. The beam weapons used compressed particles to rip away things at a molecular level (physical with mass and weight) and can't be deflected by using magnetic shields. And have ranges from like 30km to 1000km or farther as the weapon scales in size, so comparable to the empires I think...
I thought I'd give a few pointers since you seemed kind of iffy about some areas, mostly in Gundam but also in Star Wars? Considering how utterly core minovsky particle interference is to early combat fleet combat in Universal Century, not using it during the time it was most heavily used to the point it was considered a war crime to employ it the way they did after the One Year War is.. silly. Granted, it's already silly that the Federation was so extremely adamant about sticking to classic big gun design, and we saw how badly that went when Zeon spanked them using converted freighters with 1/30th the fighting strength of the Federation navy. There's also the fact that the entire Imperial fleet may just *stop working* on the spot as soon as it flies into the minovsky cloud. Which would be boring. But, you are definitely imposing the range limitations that Gundam warships suffer (which limits them to fighting at a few hundred kilometers usually) from that Minovsky Interference. Star Wars has two different kinds of shields. Particle and Ray shields. Particle shields are rarer than Ray shields, but most cap ships do have them, although they don't usually seem to be as strong due to the rarer use of missiles and ballistics in space? I don't think the Federation would join forces with the Zeon, especially if this is at the beginning, when they still have all of their fleets before they got swiss cheesed by Zeon jumping them. You should remember that the Zaku II at the start of the one year war was deployed as the C-Type, which was armed with special lead shielding to keep them protected from the atomic ordinance they were deploying. When we see their bazookas one shotting those 400 meter ships or those big, like, 2km explosions on the colonies, that's the nukes these things are throwing at big targets. Granted, by the end of the One Year War, you have the nuke-ignoring Gundam line, and beam weapons on mobile suits giving individual pilots the fire power of capital ships. So it's difficult to pick where a "good" spot to use to make things interesting. I don't like considering Turbo Lasers as lasers (they seem like plasma blasters to me), but it is worth noting that laser weapons are almost useless in Gundam due to a special coating they have against such weapons. This is why they never use lasers in Gundam most of the time. We see the colony laser, which is supposedly strong enough to take out Jaburo from Jupiter orbit, which is situated under a kilometer of solid rock and armor, take dozens of seconds to chew through this while continuously bathing Federation ships in its beam. So, if your opinion is that they ARE lasers, as I know some people are pretty adamant about, then you should know about that. If you have any questions, I'd be glad to try and give answers or point you in the right direction for them if I don't know myself.
Thank you for the super detailed response! I know this took a while, so I take it as huge complement! I mostly want to respond about the Minovsky particles, I am aware of them but I intentionally decided to omit them here. There were 2 reasons for this: 1) I wanted this video to be understandable to the “average” Star Wars fan, so I thought it was most important to focus on the basics of who’s fighting each other and what they use (mobile suits). 2) I 100% agree they would have an impact, but it was hard to decide to what degree. At a minimum, I felt they should impact Imperial targeting and shields - but Star Wars is not known for adhering to physics. As Gundam fan, I thought it was reasonable but as a Star Wars fan, I could justify minimizing it or at an extreme ignore. Since I figured Gundam would win without accounting for them, I hoped to avoid a fan war by just comparing the raw engineering of the combat machines. I appreciate your comment about the range of the Gundam ships. I’ve read a few other comments about it and I’m starting to agree with it. For this video, I asked how far CAN they fire, but I like the reminder to consider at range do they MOST OFTEN fire at: and in that case Gundam should have the edge. It’s interesting to consider this battle if Zeon and the EFF didn’t join up, assuming they have a range advantage. It would be an interesting 3 battle. Thanks again for the info!
@@CrazyKnuckles - I know the technology lore in Gundam, especially on Minovsky Physis, is sort of stupidly deep, but to simplify it in the future I'd just say.. Their nuclear reactors put out a special particle which has a strong EMP-like effect. This massively inhibits sensors in areas where these particles are spread which forces them to engage in relatively short range battles. It effects visible light, most energies, especially electronics not specially shielded, and makes remote operated or guided weaponry such as missiles and drones almost impossible to use at range as well. It is for this reason that ace pilots and small fighter craft have risen to the forefront of warfare once again. It is the basis upon which much of their more fantastic technology is built and these effects are the driving forces behind why their weapons and vehicles end up looking and operating and fighting the way they do. If you want you can steal that, in part or in whole, modify, whatever.
@@CrazyKnuckles - As for range, the Geminus (or is it Geminas? I can't recall) was firing from orbit during the Grypps conflict. During the OYW Zeon used mass drivers on the moon to bombard Russia. It's supposedly a big reason why there's not really much of a war going on there. It's largely pulverized and the Federation gave it up. As well, during the First Neo-Zeon War era, the FAZZ units have a scene where they are sniping at targets in a combat situation where no ships have spread minovsky particles to foul up sensors. They're basically shooting at twinkling dots in the distance their targets are so far away. Their beam attacks were traveling at roughly ten thousand kilometers per second. Beam weapons are not anywhere as fast as lasers obviously, but it has been noted that if you are in knife fighting range, you can't dodge a beam after it has been fired. You dodge where it is aiming. Their targets in that scene were roughly "a few tens-of-thousands-of-kilometers" away and it took their beams 3 seconds to get there. I usually equate "few" with "three". But obviously the speed and range of the weapon increases if you disagree with that assessment and say "few" equates to four or five, as I have seen some do.. But I've never personally used the word to mean such.
@@matteste - They were kind of the final nail in the coffin, I'd say. Special anti-laser coating already existed to provide an ablative protective. Until it ran out the target was effectively immune.
A bit misleading on that Zeon intro summary, they are more based on Imperial Japan with German aesthetics. This is why I fear normies flooding into my Gundam
Huh, I’ve never heard that before. I guess it should be a surprise, Tomino basing it on his own country - but the aesthetic, Gihren comparing himself to Hitler, gassing civilians makes the German connection very easy easily drawn. It can be connected to practically everything I see. Spacenoid superiority rhetoric can easily be associated with German or ultra nationalist Japanese ideology of the 1940’s. I’ve only thought about this for 20 minutes and it’s been quite fun!
@@CrazyKnuckles - Gihren definitely adopted Nazi-like tendencies. But the show makes it clear this is an outlier. The other Zabis are not like him. I often say each represents different kinds of evils with the world. Degwin himself realizes that Gihren is doomed to die by the hands of his own people and seems concerned that Kycilia is up to even greater feats of evil. Garma represents the least of the evils, that being the detached nature of the upper class and how rifts between the classes can cause problems. Garma is viewed as a spoiled brat and in many ways early on he is. But he does grow and in timelines where he lives he ultimately becomes an accomplished and respected leader, backed up by his brother Dozle. Both of whom, you might notice, don't ever do anything particularly Nazi-like. Dozle, for instance, is more like a banchou. He represents a kind of might-makes-right sort of survivalist thinking where blind loyalty and double think can cause you to muscle innocent people in the name of sticking-to-your-guns. A lot of people die because he refuses to accept that his brother Gihren could possibly be doing something wrong, and following Gihren's plan ultimately even causes him to have a mental breakdown in The Origin as he tries to ignore the atrocities that resulted because of the take over of Island Iffish and dropping it on Earth. In some ways, he can be equated to some Nazi officers who understood what was happening was wrong but did it anyway because they couldn't allow themselves to accept that their side was wrong. But this is really an issue with every fascist regime, and it's even a talking point today about the higher ups in Russia's military while discussing the Ukrainian War. But Dozle doesn't accept that his siblings could be so flawed until Garma dies, and the tide of the war is reversed, and he finds himself having to prepare a defense for Solomon that he never expected he'd need. By then it's too late, and keeping his wife and child safe are the only things he cares about. Unlike the actual Nazis, who poisoned their own families when they thought their bunkers would be overrun. In fact very few Zeon resorted to suicide when they realized victory was impossible. Degwin = Coups, government corruption, regret for using "the ends justify the means" Gihren = Hitler, using hate and cultural superiority as propaganda to normalize violence. Kycilia = Imperial Japan with the internal conflicts, horrific experiments, etc Garma = The class rift between common people and aristocracy Dozle = Gang-like mentalities, brutishness, blind loyalty That's a gross over simplification, but you kind of get the idea.
Also one thing I wanna point out, what if it become a man-to-man battle, that stormtroopers are landed on earth Or any colony, then clash with Federation Or Zeon's foot soldier, how will it end? Or even more specifically say, a Newtype soldier face a jedi/sith, how their fight will be?
I'd give Zeon Char and his Zaku II S if the Empire are going to have any force users and for the Federation, The RB-79 Ball, RGM-79 GM and Armuro with the RX-78-2 Gundam if we are sticking to the OYW.
Great question! I’ve seen this one come in a few times today. There are two reasons why I didn’t mention the fighters: 1) In The Origin OVA the fighters and carriers are mentioned but don’t play a significant role. The capital ships are doing all the damage and the fighters mainly appear to get shotdown. Naturally I think they can contribute more, but they were shown to be an afterthought, so that primed me to believe the battleships were the main damage dealers and that the fighters were negligible. 2) My second reason is not a great one, but I don’t have model for those. When I decided to make this video I wanted to use the models I had to make this video more special. I guess it comes down to different forms of bias for this one in particular. I can’t deny this video was also an excuse play with the figures in front of a blue screen.
@@CrazyKnuckles The feds seemed to treat their Strike craft (Sabrefish) as more of a tool to defend the fleet (at the start of the war both Zeon and the federation had conventional space fighters, the aforementioned sabrefish for the feds and the Gattle for Zeon) the sabrefish whilst capable of engaging hostile warships are mainly their to picket against hostile space fighters and any warships that had broken into the formation (we see this in the origin with a pair destroying a musai with their rocket pods) however vs mobile suits they were shown to be ineffectual unless using hit and run or swarm tactics, many of the federations mobile suit Aces during the OYW were former fighter pilots whether in space with a sabrefish or earthside with a tincod, mongoose etc.
Mobile Suit Gundam Origin has showcase the extreme performance of Zakus even by normal pilots, these things are actually fast,, can turn better, have good ABS stabalizers and can turn. Tiefighters have to rotate their entire body, forced to make wider turns for a fly pass. Unlike Tie Fighter, Zakus can equipped with both anti starfighter guns and anti ship weaponry and devastated fleets of warships and starfighters.
you are forgetting the Miniovsky Interference and how that played such a big role in neutering the massive firepower advantage of the EFSF Fleet. If you are going by the Origin story then the EFSF also has a lot of Saber Fish space fighters, which once again where mostly renderd useless by minsovsky interference ut would probably be pretty useful in a proper space battle without that problem. SO, could the combined EFSF and eon fleets use Minvsky Jamming to at least even the field? would tie fighters and ISD have to rely on short range sensors and lose most of their ranged advantage? ALSO you forget that We have Nukes that could be used and also a colony or large recours asteroid could be used to hide the fleet behind and absorb at least some fire. A colony could even be dropped on the ISDs it prba;y would not get to them intact but it would create a hige field of debris which would obscure sensors and once again reduce the high range advantage of the ISD and force them to get much closer. On the Ground if the Galactic Emprie was forced to occupy the planet, taking earth Intact then the EFF could do exactly what they did in cannon and simply use huge numbers of conventional weapons which would be much more effective against SW as we often see that SW ground forces and weapons are nowhere near as good as old school bullets, missile, artillery and tanks which the EFF has plenty of. meanwhile the MS would literally just push over an AT-AT and stomp on an AT-ST lol. but in space? i think with the right tactics a bunch of MS could get close and literally chop them apart (you already have that). The problem is that Star Wars ships are much more advanced especially if using OYW era tech. the Galactic empire would probably just destroy a few colonies and base delta zero a few cities on Earth if needed to convince the EFF that resistance is literaly a death sentence. What would likely happen is large scale capitulation followed by a drawn out gureilla war both on the ground and in space with remnants using space debris, resource asteroids and destroyed colonies to hide like the Zeon Remnants did. Meanwhile the EFF ground forces would probably use the same tactics the Zeon Remnants did and make use off all sorts of hidden bases and hard terrain like we see in the 8th MS Squad to hide entire armies for a long drawn out war of grueilla attrition. this would last until the empire got sick of Earth and decied to Base Delta Zero a few more cities just to make the point that WE HAVE EARTH SURROUNDED BY GIANT FUCKING SPACE SHIPS.
These franchise battles are always a pain. Just going by the Kardashev Scale, Gundam is a type 1 & Star Wars is a type 3 civilization, that is not a far fight. Gundam UC 0079, has only colonized with in the moon's orbit, they don't have warp drives. You could make the argument that Mobile Suits are so OP & range into the area of being too dangerous for this civilization, they wiped out half their population within the first month of the one year war.
Also if this is a Pre-Loum moment, then Zeon's force will pretty much equiq with NBC shit, but if it is After Loum, then their fleet probably not in a good shape like what he mentioned in the video. I believe there should be 3 moment are good to work as a benchmark of Earth circle's technology. 1.Right before the OYW(0078.12.31); 2.Right after GM has been massive produce (somewhere in Oct 0079) 3.Time-unsensitive, just let Feddie and Zeek join with their full arsenal. 1 is the best time for a United operation for Feddie and Zeek, not to mention both of them are unscratched yet;2 let both of Feddie and Zeek have a proper MS force, and 3 is simply just including all tech of earth circle.
![5 Reasons Why Zeon Lost The One Year War [Remastered]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/eJU8_1_vmDM/mqdefault.jpg)
One key feature in the beam weaponry is that unlike the Tibanna gas, the minovsky particles are tightly compressed and would destroy atoms in a molecular level which the energy shields of any starships/fighter would have a hard time stopping or outright be ignored depending on the energy output.
exactly what I was thinking
So the Star Wars universe has to play by Gundam laws of physics?
@@BladeMasterGrom13 But the problem is, do they have any?
I would note that the particle beam weapons used is different between settings
@@BladeMasterGrom13Nope. The Star Wars equivalent of Beam Weapons are Disruptor Weapons.
A single red mobile suit can take out 5 Star destroyers without getting a scratch.
3x times faster than normal
Straight facts
😅😂😂
Not only 5 but a fleet of it with their anti ship rifle
What’s about a Jedi vs a RX7 2?
I believe if the battle took place during late UC (the Gryps war and the 3 Neo Zeon wars) the Gundam universe would have a better chance at wining.
The Gryps war: With their transforming mobile suit, they would destroy all the tie fighters and would damage the star destroyer more severely than any of the zakus. And with the colony laser on the titans side, it would deal a heavy blow towards the fleet since I highly doubt the shields would be strong enough to withstand that much energy.
The 1st Neo Zeon war: Most of the suits are equipped with psycho weapons (funnels and incoms) and with the high mega particle cannon on both the ZZ gundam and the Nahel Argama, they would have a higher kill count on the tie fighters and star fighters
The 2nd Neo Zeon war: Same thing, but with greater results due to stronger psycho weapons
The La+ incident : With the 3 NT-D machines (Unicorn, Banshee, and Phenix), they alone could destroy a star destroyer. And lets not even mention the Neo Zeong
Also mention the Unicorn Gundam's form that I personally what I call Psycho-Frame Crystallin Burst (Or PFCB) form will reverse time of the Star Destroyers, rendering the ships, their Ti-Fighters, shield generators and guns to a point that they were just components.
How about the Crossbone Vanguard era? When MS were miniaturized and have beam shields?
@@TerminatorGundam300 is right!! The empire should really consider themselves lucky that they weren’t in the NCC era, or whatever era that Turn A Gundam takes place in. The moonlight butterfly system would completely ANNIHILATE the Empire in one strike!!!!
@@Voltexfinal Not sure about the Turn A era since they barely had a space force compared to the other eras and the Earth was mostly stuck with steam powered tech and still digging up buried MS.
But the Turn A and Turn X would certainly devastate the Empire. Since the Moonlight Butterfly was proven to cover the whole Earth, is it safe to assume it can do the same to the Death Star?
If earth and Zeon would lose imagine how powerful the empire would be if they incorporate mobile suits into it tho
actually oddly enough bullets/physically rounds or mass drivers can penatreate regular shields but not ray shields
This
50/50 scenario is the rebels finding out about the planet and gets them to join their cause giving them an infusion of badly needed equipment and weapons in return for giving the uc earth its own knowledge and tech such as lightspeed travel.
Imagine Mobile Suits with hyperdrives
@@pitied3744 I'd like to imagine they'd create something crazy like a mobile armor that can carry entire squads of mobilesuits.
You forgot the fact that the Feddies have the Saberfish. It was the only thing that they had against the Zaku during the start of the OYW. With them, they could even the odds against the TIE’s.
The Saberfish was an Earth only vessel. Before the GM the space forces only had the Ball.
@@aliastheabnormal That's the FF-3 variant. The saberfish can infact be in space with the FF-S3 that was shown in MSV. Although most of not all where converted back to the atmospheric variant at the late stages of the war with most pilots choosing the GM light type over the basic GM.
The initial 3 imperial class star destroyers definitely can’t beat the combined forces of the zanscare empire and earth federation inUC 0153
Mobile suits would be ideal for jedi pilots, especially the ones equipped with psycommu systems. Jedi piloting the Nu or Unicorn could fight in space the same way the fight on foot, slashing fighter with their up-scaled lightsabers and crushing star destroyers with psycommu enhanced telekinesis.
well jedi kinda newtype but can use magic
While a lot of fellow Gundam fans have pointed out how truly devastating Minovski particles were (be is their dissolving-esk properties or interference with radar and communications) it’s also important to remember that Star Wars shields often don’t function like most other sci-fi shields. If we look at something like Star Trek, shields are an all-purpose defensive system meant to prevent any and all unwanted attacks and advances like beaming raid parties, physical attacks, and an array of phaser and photon weaponry. Star Wars shields are pretty varied in their effectiveness. In the prequels and Clone Wars tv series we see how smaller shields can protect from las-type weaponry and often have additional defenses towards fast-moving objects. In the original era we see that planetary shields often provide near total protection against all oncoming materials, physical or las-based, yet require massive generators and in rogue one, have specific weaknesses in the form of otherwise unshielded generators. The star destroyers, however, often get taken out by physical objects; seen primarily in the asteroid field of Empire Strikes Back where an otherwise shielded ship is taken down by a direct hit to the bridge by a stray asteroid, and when damaged ships similarly crash and eliminate the bridge of cruisers in Return of the Jedi. It’s highly likely that thanks to Palpatine’s budgeting cuts to the empire’s military budget and the Tarkin doctrine of fear over practicality, that while Star Destroyers did indeed have some minor protections against physical weaponry and high-speed targets, said shields were much weaker than they first appeared and could be easily penetrated as the primary focus was on protecting them from oncoming fire. Additionally these shields were incredibly weak to ion torpedoes which while designed to take out shielding, could render a Star Destroyer complete inoperable after a few shots. Furthermore, the number of ships fluctuate in the Gundam lore thanks to the Origin basically being a re-write, the original saw fleets on both sides reach into the hundreds with the Earth Federation gaining some 300 odd vessels so depending on the version you go with, the Federation and Zeon forces could be vastly larger than those given here which would signify the potential for Gundam fleets standing far better chances in direct conflicts. Prolonged war would present a significant issue however since reinforcements would be a crucial key in the empire taking on Feddies and Siegs since neither faction have access to light speed or warp capabilities meaning their fighting forces must rely solely on what they show up with and any stray or smaller forces could be quickly overrun and taken out, as well as supply lines and trade/communications paths being at the complete mercy of the empire should they wish it
I'll say at the opening war the fed and zeon have vast advantage since they are fighting a defensive war and what's more if those warp drive falls into their hand it's only matter of time before the empire being being invaded by the Gundam forces what's more empire have not yet deal the rebels
@@amychan811 imagine, warp capable federation fleet. Gundam: The Origin would have had a VERY different opening space battle
funfact, theroetically the phenex gundam can reach the speed of light@@skeetskeet7041
@@Keryaken133except the pilot would gets vaporized by its speed.
If it was mid to late UC, it would be a bloodbath on the Empire side, thanks to more powerful suits that come out and the fact both sides weaponized the star wars equivalent of force users on mechs and warships. Also subscribing because gundam and star wars.
Not even speaking turn a in the unicorns
That's if they can survive the first order, the final order, the Droid Gotra and The Grysk Armada. Any one of these factions would be a calamity to any time period of the Universal Centery.
@@TheGreatPinkPillow27 Any star wars faction honestly would probably win in an invasion in MOST UC time periods due to having access to an entire galaxy's worth of manpower and resources compared to Gundam's nations which are limited to the Earth Sphere. However, I highly doubt they would win in a period where Gundam Unicorn is piloted by a strong new-type such as its pilot, Banagher. Unicorn can access new dimensions and use them to manipulate time. Such as when Unicorn caused the engines of an entire fleet of Jegans to revert back to a period where they were non-functional (it could have easily been used to kill the pilots, but Banagher wanted to avoid meaningless death) and also used it to reverse damage on itself. Sort of a bullshit power honestly hahaha.
@@fingbong9653 There are many weapons that can destroy the unicorn gundam and lay waste to the turn A. Like Starkiller base, the emperor force storm, Darth Vader, one of the final order star destroyers and "the celestials" especially "Abeloth". Pretty much anything Gundam universe throws at the star wars universe. Star wars can easily counter.
Except for "Kira Jesus Yamato" no one in star wars would be able to beat that beast.😉
The Big Zam did have I-field generators (beam shields) but granted that is a Zeon superweapon and is in no way common.
If only it was mass produced!
Nice video however when you set this after the battle of Loum that would mean The Antarctica treaty would not be in effect thus those Zakus would be armed with nukes and at this point of OYW most Zakus have nuclear radiation shielding. Even if The Antarctica treaty have been signed an alien threat would nullify the Duty of not using nukes thus both Zeon’s and Fed’s mobile suits would be using nukes
That is a great point! This means I have some fun animations to work on :)
Well, now I want to see Zakus fighting with nuclear missile launchers.
@@CrazyKnucklescan a star destroyer survive a shot from the beam rifle
Solomon express suits of the OYW… Nuke spam like crazy.
Now you gave me an image of a Zaku kicking a TIE fighter like a Ball lmao
wow, you completely ignored the minovsky particles.... which render long range targeting impossible
There are just three main issues i have with this. The first is the minvosky particle density, which would massively disrupt any form of scanning equipment on the star destroyers messing with their entire system. 2. The lack of ball mobile pods, core fighters, and the fact that they would have at least had the gm overall. 3. and this is the big one, this is the lowest level of tech for the feddies and zekes overall, as the middle of the one year war has the name sake gundam, but we have zeon suits like the rick dom, kempfer, and the prototype suits.
late war gundam weaponry would definetly do something against ships
I believe it depends which version of the Galactic Empire we are talking about. If it is the good old Expanded Universe which I personally prefer I believe the Empire may infact win. You see in guides set in the Expanded Universe it is said Turbolasers are 200 gigatons per shot which is quite insane. And due to this the armor, shields, and hulls must be very durable and strong. So I believe they win if this is the Expanded Universe Empire.
If we are talking about the Disney Canon Empire, well they lose because they were nerfed so badly and they are so incompetent and weak in that pathetic excuse of a canon that any normal Sci Fi or Fantasy faction can beat them with ease.
If you're ships are so weak, space whales were able to destroy your star destroyers you realize you screwed something up.
I think the vast majority of people prefer the EU over Disney's canon, and I'm among the fast majority.
Though in either universe, ISD still has problems. In fact in EU, the rebels pointed out the ISD had more than 1000 flaws that could be exploited. The turbo lasers would certainly one shot the majority of ships in Gundam, but they'd do poorly against the maneuverability of MS, and the ISDs lack point black defenses. Also while their hulls are durable, MS once attached to the hulls have more options of breaking through than fighters. Also they need only destroy the ISD bridge, which sticks out along with its shield generators
I think you missed the coatings and materials used in the Gundam UC makes pretty much anything intended for war or even piece made by any military force or secret project immune to lasers, no matter the intensity or wavelength. The materials used also distribute and bleed off energy insanely fast so lasers would be very inefficient and ineffective. Also, if we are talking actual gundams and not just mobile suits then we are talking about beam weaponry, some of which is scary levels of powerful. These are charged plasma. Think of taking a solar flare, compressing it into a beam that is about 120-580mm in diameter with the same density as nickle. The explosions seen in the gundam universe are that energy charge disrupting the bonds between atoms and causing instant vaporization of that material. Or sometimes the charge will build in the material till it reaches a critical point, at which point the molecules are so excited and have so much charge they repell each other in a glorious bright explosion like in the Gundam Wing universe. Ion cannons are sort of in the ballpark of mechanics, but nowhere near the power or destructive force or potential of any beam cannons. Melee beam weapons are much like light sabers, but on a scale 10x the size and turned up to 11. Most gundams are impervious to 120mm cannon fire and resistant to beam shots in most the torso, waist, shoulders, and some in legs and arms. Others have shields that are double thick or even triple thick and even tougher to crack. The metals bleed off energy and heat almost as fast as it can be introduced and the greater mass means it can do it even faster and heat slower. But gundams are also very fast and push the limits so much that some have killed pilots just by changing directions. Ones like Unicorn-03 Phenix are said to be able to move through space and time or reach critical percentages of lightspeed, but its unknown if that's the maximum. They spent years looking to capture that gundam when it went rogue and basically used the pilot as a biomass battery so it could continue operating since it needed a pilot to work but had pushed the pilot so hard that they were put into a vegetative state. I'm bot gonna count Turn A into the equation because it was basically a god machine with a singularity as a limitless power source and was so OP that many gundam fans barely acknowledge it as part of the collective based on its ultimate ability being what it is, the moonlight butterfly. So counting that one verse out you can crash into any of them and would find nothing but brutal and unending death if you try to fight any of them. They are all destructive and extremely powerful. Even if you have WH40K meeting gundam WH would end up getting wrecked.
Char would just find some way to use politics to turn the tides and would drop some kind of inanimate object big enough to destroy their weapon like a entire space colony.
It depends on what era we talkin about. Cause the UC Gundam timeline its so big the early stages are really tame in forms of power.
But in Late UC we have stuff that can control time and space.
After that we have Crossbone Vanguard... And those are armed to the teeth with everything. Laser Immunity mostly, complete immunity to laser technologt
I think you also forgot about the space fighters and the support ships the Earth Federation had. Aside from that, I do agree with your assessment.
The range is nonsense to be honest. In Star Wars you rarely if ever see ships fire beyond visual range, heck most often almost point blank range. But within even the OYW era Zeon and EF Ships would fire from distances so far that their targets were often just another glimmer within the stars and required magnification to even see let alone shoot at. The opening engagement at Loum from Origin is a good example in which both Zeon and EF forces literally took long range pop shots at each other in mass. Zeta Gundam, and Char's Counterattack it was pretty much the only way they fought. Unicorn also confirms this as well almost always engaging from so far that the ships couldn't even see each other even when they were taking pop shots at each other. In short the range of a Beamcannon in Gundam is only really limited in Space by their ability to actually see the target, this is also why Colony Lasers like those to shoot at the asteroids in CCA could fire from pretty much across the Earth system to hit what they want. Being Star Destroyers are much larger, and "White/Gray" they would have no issue seeing and engaging them from even longer distances than they would each other. PS when I mean colony lasers I don't mean the big super weapons. I mean individual space colonies actually had laser defenses to protect against space debris like asteroids extra. Oddly not even talked about much if at all until CCA but technically they should of existed in every Side. That being said, range in space in Gundam seems to be almost limitless and logically should be, as a few other Geeks in the community would agree you can not listen to statistics in Gundam as it's all broken and dont' even follow what you often see when watching the shows/movies, so you have to use observation on how ships/weapon systems perform in Gundam not what is officially written on paper and this is why in Gundam limitless range is incorporated a lot into the Franchise. Only on Earth do for example Beam Weapons have limited range because of the Planet's atmosphere and how it would rip a beam cannon/rifle round to pieces just from friction, it's why beam sniper rifles on Earth have to project a constant stream in their beam to have penetration/range. While in space a beam rifle like on say the Sinanju can just take long range pop shots like it's nothing like seen vs the Admiral Revil.
So this scenario is early OYW, before the Federation made MS. They'd still have fighters and Ball units. You left out some key details from this. No way would Zeon leave themselves open to figthers by sending all their suits to the ISDs. Also, I don't think they Zaku's move that fast as those speed would crush the pilot. Death Battle is not a reliable source. They are more agile and maneuverable, that is accurate.
On a side note, SW ship shields work differently than most sci-fi. Its divided into two form ray and particle shields which block energy and physical shots respectively. While they can have both active, the power is divided between them. So when in combat, power is funneled to the ray shields entirely. That's why we see fighters and torpedoes always get so close and damage ships like they are not shielded.
Thanks for commenting, and you make a lot of great points!
Looking back, I agree it makes sense Zeon would have some Zaku's for defense, however in The Origin OVA Dozel did not leave any to protect his Musai Squadron. Granted, that was against a known enemy - so I could see him deciding otherwise against the Empire.
In regards to the Federation's fighter and ball units, it was a matter of simplifying it for Star Wars viewers with minimal exposure to Gundam. I felt I was already spraying them down with the ship classes and the very premise of mobile suits - was already a lot. In my experience, Gundam fans are familiar with Star Wars, but most Star Wars don't understand Gundam, so I decided to leave it at the most iconic pieces at play.
Your critiques are great and definitely something I'd want to address in a follow-up video.
@@CrazyKnuckles It's important to note that this is the first fleet battle mobile suits were used in, and the Federation did not believe that Zeon was ready to use such weapons. There was a distinct lack of intel among their soldiers on how to engage mobile suits.
For this reason, the mobile suits were kept in reserve and most were deployed from the rear Papua-class logistical support fleet which were just supposed to be carrying parts, fuel, and ammo as far as the Federation knew.
Dozle's use of the Zakus in a fully aggressive manner was solely to shock the Federation, so they could not see the Zakus deploying by and large and were not prepared for them coming in at full speed. Many Feddie crew did not know they were facing 60 foot tall robots, due to their humanoid shape and had issues targeting them as well. The Musai were used as bait in this occasion.
In the Origin, Dozle also used Minovsky Interference to attack with the Musai cruisers in a similar way to the Zakus as well, ambushing the Federation through the fog of war, where interference was so bad the visible light spectrum was shrouded almost entirely. This sudden high speed ambush technique is something he is fond of doing, and later on in the war he often launched smaller versions of this known as "Front Line Inspections" during his visits to the front with soldiers he'd just met for "fun."
Normal Zeon doctrine is to keep the Musai as far back as possible and use them as fire support and to let their three Zakus fly forward as a screen to stop enemy fighters and mobile sits, and then to take out the enemy ships. This seems to be the standard practice for mobile suit use through out the Universal Century.
i think that mega particl cannons would also have a similar draining effect as Ion Weapons on SW sheilds. they have the properties of seriously powerful thermal blast and the ionized radtions that you alwasys see, soo i think SW sheild might drain much faster then if it was only agasint comparibly powerful "laser" cannons. lso minvsky Interfearnce would liely wreac havoc with the ISDs sesors just like it does in UC.
that's why they all have limiters. all MS do. chars limiter was removed thats why he was so fast.
Monavski generators can shutdown most communication technology, especially in combat that only laser communication or trans-dimensional communication. But once the EFF and Zeon join they can share tech and development due to the massive threat and develop the end of the One Year War the mobile suits and tech.
That is just the basic stuff for humans/oldtypes, with newtypes and ace pilots, the machines would be given a 30% increase to overclocking them by 3 to 10x for them to keep up with the super natural abilities or skills of those pilots.
Even those that aren't Newtypes like, Cyber Newtypes, Inovaters, Inovates, Cordinators, X Rounders, Allia viyana system, ZERO system users and so on can be like that, 99% of the other timelines/universes of gundam have jamming tech that are the same as Minovski drives as their generators or just tech or armor. The one of the most powerful piece of technology in gundam from the UC timeline is Phycoframe and the Biocomputer/biosensor, they give the mobile suits and any machine using them far more power and a boost that even they do not understand and given a powerful Newtype they can even alter reality on a grand scale.
Even not at full strength during the show and manga, the Turn A and Turn X can do a ton of damage to a lot of tech and life in the solar system with the Moonlight Butterfly as it can go through shield systems with the mixture of Nano Machines and energy of unknown origin from them. They carry and have an unknown number of nano machines in them so it would be hard to say that it would run out in a short period of time.
That is excluding the fact they have shields and systems to shutdown and neutralize energy attacks or physical ones.
Also consider that this is just an expedition force and not the army, they would not come in full just because they lost 2 ships. They would however, relaunch the once damaged Star Destroyer (the EFF and Zeon would not let that ship go unscathed and damage it) with 2 lesser escort ships in a month while they plan out the attack. A month would be enough to get around late OYW tech to both sides and gather a larger force to fight them. So when the empire return, they are fucked beyond measure.
The Earth Federation have space carrier on the battle group for support the fleet
Very true! In the future, as I acquire more Gunpla, I hope to revisit this battle with even greater depth.
If the Galactic Empire were to attack during the Gryps Conflict / 1st Neo Zeon War, a time period considered the golden age of transformable mobile suits, said transformable MS would be very devastating to the ISD. Assuming the MS in their fighter forms are comparable to the X-Wings and A-Wings of the Rebel Alliance, they should be able to take advantage of what Rebel fighters call "Trench Run Disease" since ISDs don't have point blank defenses, and the MS can do a lot more when the transform on the ISD exterior since the turbo lasers won't be able to keep up.
Since TIE Fighters and TIE Interceptors have no shielding, they're as vulnerable as any other fighter that mobile suits have crushed before.
If they attacked during the age of miniaturized MS, it would be all the worse for the Empire. Though miniaturized MS are not as durable as the older and bigger ones, they have beam shields and are both faster and more agile than the ones from 0079 - 0100
I remember an army of speedy space cows is enough to destroy a whole armada of star destroyers. Mobile suits are overkill.
Star wars has a limiting factor on the effective range of their main weapons however if you're using anything that is a projectile based weapon instead of particle-based weapon the range in space is basically infinite tell that object strike something effective range where the opponent cannot Dodge is greatly reduced but not nearly as much as a turbo laser from the Star wars universe
Darth Vader Star destroyers that followed the millennium falcon into the asteroid field survived for several months will be in constantly bombarded by multi-million time rocks I'm comparing them to nukes essentially the rock that destroyed the dinosaurs that's constant strikes
Started working on a video on this same topic today, then decided to look and see who else has covered it. You coverage is pretty good, though one thing you missed was that in Knights of the Old Republic they give an explanation as to why you see guys running around with physical blades when lightsabres/blaster rifles are around. The explanation is that due to the abundance of personal energy shields which are effective against blaster fire and lightsabres, but are of little use against physical attacks. We also see these with droidekas who are largely immune to blaster fire but vulnerable to grenades (And when shooting they stick the muzzle of their guns through the shield in other to fire).
You also see this same principle in MS Gundam, as the I-Field of the Big Zam made it impervious to beam weapons but it was still vulnerable to physical weapons. This trend continued on through the series, such as in Stardust Memory. This means that the missiles from the ships as well as the 120mm MG, Bazooka, heat hawk, and anti-ship rifles of the Zakus would be able to go through the shielding of the ISDs. Combine this with later UC fleets using missiles that can create an I-Field cloud and have limited numbers of nuclear missiles on board as well as their decoys means that the later UC fleets (Such as in Char's Counter Attack) would actually do quite well even without mobile suits.
I intend to more broadly cover other eras beyond just the early OYW, including touching on Wing and G Gundam. Though I suspect the conclusion is going to be the same. Though if nothing else was working Zeon could always do a colony drop on the ISD.
Comparing a realistic take on sci-fi (Gundam) to a completely fictional and unrealistic one is impossible.
I agree
What if neo-zeon and Earth Federation around time of Charts counterattack would face off galactic empire? Unsure fleet size of both around that time but they are considerably more advanced since the one year war.
What if one Earth/human army would join forces with the Imperium?
Mobile Suits are unable to survive re-entry into Earth's atmosphere from low-orbit. Even the Gundam, with its "indestructible" luna-titanium alloy, needed to deploy a protective film to manage it, and even then it was pretty close. The battle here takes place before the Gundam was developed, so we're talking about an even lower technology level. And, of course, neither the Federation nor Zeon have any kind of FTL capability (or even long-range slower-than-light; their entire civilization consisted of Earth and a few space colonies, the furthest of which was barely beyond the Moon's orbit.) Mobile Suit Gundam depicts a much lower-tech universe than Star Wars does, and a battle between them wouldn't even be close.
The Gundam might be able to survive re-entry. The issue is the pilot could not. The Adzam's Leader weapon could put out higher temperatures than re-entry if I recall, and the Gundam showed no outward signs of damage from this.
The film got retconned, it instead used its shield to create the sort of plasma-shockwave modern ships make to divert most of the force of re-entry away, and a sort of coolant if I recall to keep the machine cold enough for the pilot to survive.
Luna Titanium (and Gundarium) also has an internal structure which I best describe as "metal memory foam". It crumples more and more over time as force is applied to it, until it can no longer handle even mundane attacks against it. So there is reason to believe the armor would need to replaced from the buffeting shockwaves compromising it. Which is probably why they changed it to using its shield instead of a heat resistant film, as the film doesn't really make any sense. But its heat resistance properties allow it to remain utterly undamaged from how hot re-entry is alone.
They did have the Jupiter energy fleet, and colonies established as far as Jupiter. But they don't burn the whole trip because fuel is still a concern, so it can take them the better part of a year under normal circumstances.
Despite the lower tech with propulsion technology, their weapons technology by the end of the One Year War, at least on the scale of fighter craft, is superior to the Empire's during the original trilogy. They will someday have FTL and wormhole technology (as we eventually find out with Turn A Gundam), so the universe itself isn't particularly behind as a whole. Just this particular timeframe is when they are just beginning to figure out how to miniature beam weapon technology and get more out of their minovsky reactors.
Despite lower propulsion technology, their space combat practices do appear to be.. vastly superior. Literally every mobile suit they produce has superior maneuverability versus the TIE Fighter, and even the lower Zaku II's machine gun is a lethal threat to it. There's no reason to believe that point defenses which struggle to bring down Y-Wing bombers could hope to stop a team of Zaku II's before they land on a Star Destroyer and basically turn it to scrap.
I kinda wish to see empire vs the OO universe since they're the only one who are ready to have first contact. And they have some sort of shielding as well.
I rmb quanta slicing a whole planet in half
Mobile suits are just superior to pathetic TIE fighters and would easily take out the weak points on the giant imperial ships. The Empire's only advantage is a bigger superweapon, which is also easily destroyed with the same mobile suits.
I speculate in the event of a war against the Empire, the MA-08 Big Zam might actually get mass produced. Because it's I Field Barrier Generator would be on par with shielding and thus might be seen as something of an equalizer or battleship killer.
The mass production version of the Big Zam drops the I-Field generator due to its over heating issues and implements a minovsky craft system, as the machine was originally intended to have. It uses the new anti-beam coating that was being developed at the time and experimentally applied to mobile suit shields. It's not as good as the later UC 0080's stuff but it's sufficient, to give it the protection it needs. It also drops the claw missiles and ring of anti-air beam guns, and instead uses a set of more traditional missile launchers for screening against smaller foes. An armored shutter is mounted in front of the main gun barrel to protect it from being shot down when not in use. Lastly, its overall profile is massively reduced with out the need for all of those weapons and fuel and such to move its enormous bulk. These models needed to stand still to fire, using a support strut to brace against the ground, as the recoil of the main gun is quite massive. But each still had the same fire power as the original Big Zam in terms of the main gun to my knowledge. No ship or fortification could have withstood an attack from a team of these things.
Because they used an ablative coating to make beam weapons fight against themselves when they evaporated on hit, it's moot whether or not I-Fields would stop blaster weaponry. Because the coating would have definitely worked and given them the chance to absorb at least a single hit from their enemies almost regardless of the fire power, as it's more about attack duration than anything else.
A similar machine would have performed as one of the multiple drone-bit parts that would have made up the Great Zeong, except I think it dropped the anti-fortress gun for a quartet of high output beam cannons so it could rapid fire on smaller, harder to hit targets, if I remember correctly.
Very interesting scenario! I can't help but feel if Vader was battling with the fleet, he'd make Char sinking 3 battleships look like amateur hour
Char is a Nu type and resistant to mind attacks, also, Vader cant breath in space or resist the power of a beam rifle. Beam weapons are like compressed solar flares. They are charged plasma. Vader gets all crispy and smokey from force lightning, now scale that up by like 100 at least and that's probably still not doing it justice. Plus, systems like the zero system, the unicorns, and many more enhance the abilities of the pilots. Even in the UC the pilots are on a whole other level than what we know as human. They can't do the things like in the star wars U but they can take the strain and are able to interpret all the information the gundam is feeding them and move them at will with almost instant reaction times. Vader is powerful, extremely so, but he would have so much going on and so many targets that the one he doesn't focus on is going to kill him to save the one he is currently focused on. He wouldn't change the events of the day much, maybe one extra gundam destroyed or possibly two. He was never giving commands to the ship or leading a battle strategy, he left that to the navy officers to do that work because he saw it as below his rank or level in the empire. Vader was arrogant and a bit entitled if you really watch his actions and see how he does things. He never liked being in the bridge of a ship during a fight. So he would just be a fun target in the one custom fighter in the bunch. And remember that the force can only be used to influence we. The weak minded, pilots no matter their rank or file were definitely not that, even the grunt suits were filled with strong willed people. There were a few spread out in the bunch that were weak, but that's uncommon.
That's kinda unfair,char isn't even top 5 in zeon's oyw aces
Wouldn’t Char put maneuver Vader to the increased speed of his Zaku ll
lol love the production quality. The stop motion is fun and the battle map is great too
If the Empire came back for round two, then how long would the Gundam alliance reverse engineer the Star Wars’ shields for mobile suits or ships? Plus which mobile suits would be around with Gundam metal?
Gundam shielding is far better than star wars.
really quick excuse punctuation. had a lot to type and im too lazy to make it look pretty lol.
4:05 : I Fields are used in the one year war. the most notable was on the big zam. But even on smaller scale MSG units have protection against beams with anti beam coating. This was mainly on shields to save costs but there were other ms that had it as well actually on the unit.
Most of the ships in gundam had some form of anti beam coating. So yes I do believe a tie fighter could damage them it would not go down easy for each Magellan class ship. Thats also why Zeon created their ships was to burn through the defenses with the massive MPC that they holstered.
6:12 : "Cycler rifles were crude yet reliable rifles designed to fire solid projectiles. They could hit targets at extreme ranges and penetrate energy shields." literally a quick google search of the only known ballistic weapon (that I know of) in the star wars universe.
A big oversight for this battle is Minovsky particles. They block targeting systems for the battle ships because of the density. Basically was the main counter for battle ships in the first place.
Also... No GM's? seems kind of silly not to include them.
The way I see this playing out is star destroyer begins fire on distant ships. as you stated.. when tie fighters roll out they wouldn't do the same damage as you said. due to minovsky particles messing with targeting systems for one. For two anti beam coating on the battleships that was also left out. three would be worse with GM's but we will leave them out for now.
Due too the loss of targeting many less ships would be lost for both Zeon and federation sides. Using the information from the cycler rifle. the ballistics from Zeon would deal heavy damage to important parts on the star destroyers. Since the shields cant stop physical rounds. (assuming the same logic is used but on a battle ship/ms class level)
this problem would be even further exaggeration with the use of the anti ship sniper rifles that zaku's can equip. For even longer range engagements ( this was specifically shown in origin which you used for many of your examples)
basically to sum this up what you said would happen but with much MUCH less loss for federation and Zeon. But EVEN less if you include the Federation Gm's. all zeon would need to do is shoot out the shield generators then the feddies beam weapons would make quick work of the star destroyer.
This is all one year war. the issue only gets worse the higher you go in UC timeline or god forbid bringing in any AU universes.
But as you said with enough star destroyers they could eventually win. But you would need a hell of a lot more than 3. especially if you De-nerf the gundam armies and set them to full power of the one year war. that means gundams , gelgoogs , Big zam etc then this battle would need all the strength they could get.
Close call to tell the truth if happened at the very beginning of the Gundam UC universe, but later it could be harder battles. The development of super-weapons, like the Colony Laser or the Solar System could have inflicted severe damage upon the Imperial warships. There would be a wider range of mobile suit usage, especially high-speed models we have seen.
The study of a captured Imperial warship and its crew and droids would grant the Earth powers access to more advance technology at least in knowledge, and where to look at. Any working Hyperdrives would grant Earth powers access to beyond the Sol System, one they could launch raids to capture Imperial hardware in early strikes or plain out buy the stuff, the civilian stuff and capture any military stuff.
Gundam can score a smaller victory but they will never win the war. As outlined here, the main advantage the Gundam Universe has is their mobile suits and that only. The Empire would see the Federation and Zeon as a true threat after such a battle and begin a full scale attack. Zakus are faster than a TIE fighter like you said. We can see this in Gundam the Origin as the Zakus are able to easily outspeed many mobile armors. However, I think you've underestimated the Imperial's TIE fighter numbers since the each ISP has tons of TIE fighter variants that they can deploy and simply overwhelm the Zakus. Zakus have very poor shielding and protection from laser weaponry and would easily be destroyed by a single shot from a TIE fighter. Additionally, with such poor protection against mobile fighters, Zeon's fleet would be wiped out very quickly in the fight considering the fact that the TIE fighters not only move faster than a Musai but also attack more rapidly which in turn causes more damage to the ships. This plus the poor shielding would render the Zeon fleet obsolete in the fight unless they can get some mobile armors to cover the ship. Lastly, if you're talking about before Battle of Loum, the ESFS and Zeon Space Force would be equipped with nuclear weaponry that would destroy this small fleet before it could begin running away. The TIEs would also be wiped out as well due to the sheer power and blast range of these weapons.
This is an interesting what-if scenario. I really wonder what it would be like if other Continuities of Gundam fought the Empire, say, some of the Mobile Suits, Fleets, and Characters from Seed, 00, IBO or Wing. I'd *really* love to see how Freedom Gundam or Gundam Barbatos would handle ISDs or TIE Fighters.
Strike Freedom would try to brute force through the ISD's shield with it's array of overpowered energy cannons
Barbatos will straight up smash the shield generators and the bridge with a mace
In the 00 timeline, they will only have a fighting chance after GN drive Tau is mass produced, and then mass-produced units suddenly have performance that rival the Gundams
I think you really forgot to take into account the EFF's Fighters. They didn't have MS at this point, but to completely shove aside the Saberfish is honestly not even fair. I doubt they'd do much, but from the EFF's Columbus class cargo ships (which were easily used as aircraft, mobile pod, and mobile suit carriers) I'm not going to give a specific maximum amount, but at the bare minimum these Columbus class ships could carry at least 10 Saberfish in each hangar (of which it has 2, so basically 20 Saberfishes). These Saberfish also possess 4 tri-pod missile launcher attachments that can be purged at will. They even had Anti-ship missiles available for loadouts. I'm unsure it'd still turn the tide in the U.C.'s favor, because I'm still in the camp that argues they'd probably lose here, even with my Gundam-biases. (Gryps War onward I think they'd win).
Char Aznable and other Zeonic Aces would appear like force users to most Imperial Pilots. Zeon will have a few Newtypes like Lalah Sune and Char capable of precognition and other abilities. Char would be with the main force at this point since it is prior to the battle of Loum, and as would Ramba Ral and the Black Tristars. This means you have at minimum 1 newtype Ace and 3 other Ace MS capable of destroying Magellan class ships by themselves.
Zeon would also be able to disable most Imperial communications and targeting systems via Minovsky Particles and M-warheads.
The Zaku Bazooka would be similar to missiles in terms of shield penetration, and as you said the MG would make pretty quick work of Tie Fighters. It would only take ONE MG round to disable a standard Tie-Fighter due to the sheer size and power those armaments have. MG Bullets are going to impact like small bombs. Also, if a Zaku Bazooka Round goes through the unshielded Hangar bay then that Star Destroyer might as well be finished. Those same Bazookas are shown to take out Salamis class ship with one direct hit. Star Destroyers are mostly armored with Durasteel which is said to be physically weaker than titanium but absorb blaster bolts more effectively. SO physical rounds are going to shred through Durasteel armor like paper as we've seen a Zaku Bazooka Destroy the Gundam's shield which is lined with Luna Titanium
Both sides also have a ton of Nukes. They just don't use them in lore after the colony drop because they signed a treaty. Nukes of the time period are said to be capable of destroying entire colonies.
The Federation also has multiple bases and cities on the Moon which harbor long range weapons. Zeon was so worried about these weapons that they used espionage and invasion to capture these territories.
At the very least the Federation would have early prototype MS and Guntanks. Guntanks have an absurd range (In space even more so) and fire massive projectiles. I believe that the Federation would deploy Guntanks at some point during the battle (attached to the outer hull of their ships, acting like turrets).
OVERALL Great video. I enjoyed it very much and I think the maneuvers used are pretty accurate as to what would happen. There are A TON of factors and details to consider of course. Very fun video all around
Thanks for that unexpected versus. Can't wait Gundam vs Star Trek and Gundam vs Battlestar Galactica and Gundam vs Babylon V
How about another interesting faction versus battle?
The Imperium of Man (Warhammer 40k) vs the Forerunners (Halo).
Great! ideas! Warhammer 40k has been peeking my interest lately....
I think that the empire has a great weak spot against the UC earth that you've ignored, and that's the minovsky particles. Those can interfere with long range communications and radars, and if there's too much of them, it can fry any electronics, and I think that's something the UC has more protection against, I don't really remember.
Also nice video, this type of crossovers are interesting to me. I wonder how things would be if it was mid to late UC, probably more favorable to gundam I think tho, with all the mobile suits, specially the newtype piloted ones. Hell, don't even get me started with the AUs, like anno domini with the GN drive and the ELS or Post Disaster with all the energy weapon immunity on both mobile suits and ships.
Thanks for the complements! I’m glad you mentioned the Minovsky particles, I decide to omit them intentionally and I would like to explain my reasoning for that.
First, to keep it simple for viewers unfamiliar with Gundam, and I wasn’t to what degree it should effect Imperial sensors. Star Wars already ignores physics a lot, so I felt their affect would come to my bias. So rather deal with that I decided, to keep to the raw engineering of each force. Which is one of things I love about each universe.
As I get more models and Gunpla, I plan to do more UC content.
@@CrazyKnuckles It could be possible that these minovsky particles are basicly the equivalent of ion cannons, which star destroyers are likely defended against
Shame arent more gundam crossover fanfics, comics, and videos. It would be interesting see gundam story where earth & zeon having putting difference aside for far greater threat. Forcing divert resources to defend their system from alien threats. Or au where gundam left the sol system and start to colonize galacxy, finding it be very hard place. Suprised when found this vieo.
@@memeboy8207 are Ion Cannons just particles or actual cannons.
@@TheMaxCloud cannons I guess
You forgot the others ships Zeon has as well as the fedie fighters. ZEIG ZEON!!!!
The thing that makes beam weapons in gundam so short range is the manovsky particles everything from the biggest ship to ms spread them by being turned on or just being idle in some cases factions have used the effect to spread more particles along with other defusing agents to greatly demisnish beam weapons
If we're using the whole OYW(one year war) tech, the empire(the OG trilogy) is pretty much screwed. Luna titanium, minovsky particles and anti-laser coating is a technology that in my opinion would be a gamechanger. In terms of shielding, there's the I-fields and materials that can tank most attacks.
pre-antarcrtic treaty(which happened after loum) era has multiple early zaku variants as well as "enhanced" payloads(considering the damage decrease between origin and 0079 as well as nuke/colony drop ban, it is likely that some radioactive elements were utilized) in their 280mm rockets
In terms of in-atmosphere combat, both EFF(earth federation forces) and zeon have the equipment for quick atmospheric deployment(salamis capsule, komusai, pegasus class ships etc.), ground bombardment and invasion(Gaw, medea and adzam mobile fortress). The matchups in the air would have mixed results as dopps and core fighters/core boosters do lack in thrust but both have properties that make up for it(a dopp can take off, fly and land even with major damage and FF-X7 core fighter can serve both as interceptor as well as a pre-base jabber MS(mobile suit) platform should core booster module be attached).
Ocean environments are an easy victory for zeon(as they have superior amphibious capabilities-z'gok, hygogg and grublo are a powerhouse there)
As for ground combat(not counting the mobile suits as those are pretty strong against), speeders can outmatch wappas(zeon's light patrol hovercraft) in terms of horizontal, but not verical speed and the integrated guns on imperial speeder can counter wappa only in an ambush. What will give EFF and zeon trouble will likely be the rx 200 tank(the walkers will likely perish to magella assault tanks, artillery or even the standard type 61 tank) since the main cannon is pretty powerful. however, more mobile units(light and heavy aircraft) would likely outrun the turret's turning speed.
In space(using pre-antarctic treaty ships and ms just like in the video as late OYW tech would give EFF and zeon an overwhelming advantage), the empire would have an advatage in terms of ships, but would perish when faced with mobile suits(the MS at the time were the bugu, zaku 1, zaku 2, zudah, guntank and guncannon early type and likely a few gundam test types). The not yet banned nuclear weapons would give the mobile suits better firepower while older suits like the zudah and bugu could still cause major damage to ships(zudah for example is mobile enough that even if the engine exploded, the proximity to the star detroyers would shake them up). Asteroid fields would be where guntank and guncannon would shine. as for the zakus, the thrust on s type and early high mobility types are likely to bring ruin to already slow fighters and bigger ships
If death star is accounted for, it could still be easy to wreck with sheer force even before it reaches Earth or its colonies. If there's already the colony laser or the solar laser from late OYW, it would be a powerful weapon to counter the death star
The long-term empire victory is still likely resource-wise, but the tactic to invade planets to gather resources(as seen with M'quve's mines during one year war) would prolong the war by a lot.
i still don't know how would the sith and bounty hunters interact with newtypes though
Exactly, and if you go by the manga version of The Origin the MS-06C is hardened against emp/radiation because its bazooka load-out uses nuclear rounds.
I can cover you on the Newtypes, as their basically the empathic, and more refined precognition version of force users, as it seems that they don't have to be focus on something in order to detect in coming attack or sensing something or someone. Marida Cruz show with her focus on one thing, but was interrupted when she sense her master to fall back. Another is when Char was able to sense so much crap to the point where even ordinary Newtypes aren't at the same level as Char in terms in sensing ability, but still above the average person.
The one thing that force users have is Telekinesis as while Newtypes do have it, only powerful ones can do it without guided machines as ordinary ones required to perform their telepathic abilities. With even rarer ones seem to affect the reality around them, but it's minor as Judah was able to do things that should be impossible.
They also have the ability to predict the future or see the future, but only possible by a powerful Newtype like Layla or Rita, two Newtype girls that were able to predict years in the future before it's happening.
What really set the power gap is when Psycho Frame were involve as in BS level of a gap in power. Remember the reality warping abilities? Yeah, pair that with a fully awaken Newtypes and your facing literal god machines that bend the rules to their favor.
comicvine.gamespot.com/a/uploads/original/11158/111584947/8751607-efqul6bvoaishqq.jpeg
Like, this is coming from a rx-0 Unicorn Gundam, as in a 19-20 meter machine capable of warp the very fabric of space and time, along having a capacity of a universal destruction by destabilize the current dimension were in. The Psycho Frame also amplified their capabilities to the roof, as in I'm talking about reading the minds of all across planet earth, deflecting colony laser, see all time and more.
So, facing ordinary Newtypes are just a bit more difficult to out predict as Newtypes seem to not need all of their focus to let their power loose, as well predict even time itself. But since their useless against the more practical combat without their Psychommu base equipment or just the Psycho Frame. But a Newtype with a Psycho Frame MS, then your asking Jedi and Jedi hunters facing what it is basically a reality warping, time manipulation, and even more powerful Psychic opponent that not even the Force can stand.
The tie fighters would be basically useless. I think you missed some important information about the entire gunman universe. Both the mobile suits and gundams have a coating that renders any laser tech just a light show no matter the strength. The beam weapons shoot charged plasma, which I think the imperial navy would initially think are laser based or weak as their shields would be okay at absorbing the beams at the further ends of their range. But soon those shields would start to weaken as the full barrage starts to overheat the hastily built shield gens. The empire had the resources, but often rushed projects and ship construction to a point that corners had to be cut everywhere by the events in a new hope. Tie fighters were basically death traps and only useful in a kamikaze style attack but even that would prove to be pretty much just a minor annoyance. As for the shields, the gunners on the star destroyers would need to see the target they are firing on, but with all the bombardment from the EFSF they wouldnt be able to achieve accurate fire. The shields would also start to take heavy damages as the earth federation ships started to close the distance. The weapons having a greater impact as they do till the shield gens overheat and shut down or outright explode as the destroyer is blasted into fragments and vaporized into a cloud of its former self, partly becoming a ring around the earth or its moon. The Zakus would absolutely decimate the cloud of tie fighters in the initial push. I have a feeling that the empires shields wouldn't stop any of the physical attacks based on the scenes and accounts of rebel fighters strafing the decks and con towers of destroyers inside their shield buffer, as well as other ships crashing into them. The empire would fall even if they had more capital ships. And if they came back with a massive army then the EFSF would likely have gundams and if they needed time to gather their forces it means they would be facing a totally different enemy. I also thought we were talking gundam vs. the empire and not Zakus and space ships?
beam coating gets developed after OYW, RX 78 series used lunar titanium which made it so resilient to Zaku attacks but Zaku's use traditional materials
@@Kubadaniels in one universe, yes. But in all of them lasers arent a thing because they do nothing. I'm not talking about beam weapons. Beam and laser weapons are totally different in many ways. One is just light in a concentrated point designed to heat things through electromagnetic radiation. But beams arent light. The visible light is caused by charged particles giving off what's called black body radiation, same concept of why traditional lightbulbs work or why steal glows after being pulled from a forge. Gundams are also non conductive so basically immune to electric weapons. Essentially Star was kinda has its science wrong, but if you go off what's written alone then you'll conclude that a single gundam could defeat the entire empire with just a beam sword. Even light sabers would essentially split their beam against a gundams armor or it would look like a flame against steal when it's not hot enough to cut it.
I noticed that you've mistaken the speed of the TIE/line Starfighters. You mistakenly chose the maximum atmospheric speed rather than it's maximum acceleration. The TIEs have maximum speeds of over 4000+ Gs, so the Zakus and EFSF ships are gonna have a hard time trying to shoot them down.
That's travel speeds. Their combat speeds are noticeably slower. Like, around WW2 fighter craft slower. This is probably because dog fighting at higher speeds is almost impossible. And bombing at those speeds makes it so you're as likely to drop bombs on your allied ships as you are the enemy's. Or it might be that they simply can't put power to their weapons, shields, sensors, etc when flying at those speeds. Remember the Falcon didn't pick up the TIE Fighters AT ALL while it was at cruising speed in A New Hope. And as soon as they engaged suddenly the Falcon was flying slow enough for the TIE's to easily strafe it repeatedly and much more quickly than they were before the fight began. It doesn't seem like these vehicles can really engage at higher speeds.
A lot of Sci-Fi seems to have this problem where fighting at slower speeds at knife fighting distance is the ideal form of combat. Gundam doesn't do that, mind you. When there's no EM effect going on they'll snipe at each other from thousands of kilometers away.
It's all fun and games until someone sends out the phenex, which canonically travels at light speed
The problem for the star wars side is that everything feels like its held together bubble gun and paper clips.
I've always wanted to know this, cause the star wars universe and the Gundam universe have their own technological advancements, and their own weaknesses, and you better know that the StarWars universe is gonna be scared of giant "lightsabers" wielded by the mobile suits, I also like how in some ways MS are much more advanced then the starfighters, but also don't have lightspeed capabilities, if the two universes were to ever ally each other it would be catastrophic
The Star Wars universe would be especially scared of any MS piloted by a Newtype. That's just a giant mechanical Jedi at that point.
@@Ryio5 even the vanilla gm would scare them haha, giant beam saber tech would break the star wars universe
The introduction of MS in the Gundam universe literally made such craft obsolete.
Can you pls make a part 2 of this i wanna see more of this : D
In starwars both Shields on ships and the ones that a person can deploy on them self's can be penetrated by physical projectiles. The shields stop blaster bolts because they are energy/plasma based. however a slug thrower a weapon in starwars thats like our modern day guns shoot a solid projectile and isnt stopped by the shields. so zaku weaponry that shoots a solid projectile would also go through the shields.
You also forgot to factor in that Federation at the beginning of the 1-year war also used Columbus-class, which some would have been fitted to launch FF-3F Saberfish fighters, which would pose a significant problem for the TIE fighters. Even if you don't count the RB-79 Ball. I would say this is a reasonable time frame to reference Gundam VS Star Wars. After the 1 yr war or later down the US timeline for that matter, you would also have to factor in Newtypes and the use of Funnels which would have made it completely once-sided.
I think technically the ISD's shields could only block beam fire, as there are multiple cases where physical projectiles/vehicles can get through (one example of this kind of situation is the death stars exhaust port, which was shielded but couldn't stop the physical proton torpedoes)
Yes I kind agree compared to star trek shield which was basically reinforcing the skin of the ship so that it would be harmless against physical object star destroyer are rarely attack by those since their universe battle doctrine are heavily based on energy type weapon system
i respectfully disagree, the targeting capability's of ships in starwars in limited, they operate gunnery crews like world war 2 ships when the feds and zeon can actually target ships accurate, when their ISNT minovsky particles in play. With minovsky particles dispersed, the star destroyers couldnt hit shit at long range or medium ranges, they have to close to brawling range to have any accuracy.
Gundam does have a "shield tech" the I field it shows up at the of the 1 yr war end on the big Zam, unicorn gundam had them
From what I understand a I field has to be manually triggered, so it wouldn't be as useful as a full on energy shield
After UC 0100, miniaturized MS got beam shields, which were often more effective than I-Fields. Nu Gundam had an energy shield too
@@TerminatorGundam300 oh. Thank you I hadn't got that far yet.
Don't mind spoilers though.
@@alphamon701 You're welcome
Oh yeah I forgot, the 1st Neo Zeon's mobile armor the Queen Mansa has a variant of the I-Field that redirects beams back at the shooter
@@alphamon701 Oh yeah, I forgot to mention, not much of a spoiler since the U.C. story about mini MS has long been done since the 90s. Though personally I prefer their regular sized counter parts
Now I am curious if the Imperial communications would be affected by Manovski Particles once the Gundam fleets get near enough to deploy them
Commenting on the ending of the video.
This scenario and what if is so cool, it's even oddly fitting if you start to make a fanfic of it
Imagine a history of the Empire putting investigation and force to discover again the planet of their origin as form of legitimacity.
Again a topic usual on Gundam, the earth as a contested place
Pumping out the fanfiction here, the rebels coming to earth to give aid and information of what the state of the galaxy is
The more than sure conquest of the earth by the empire it'll be!
Zeon prolly actually vibing with the rebels.
They see them as right for their philosphies. All of this event, granting them an akward treaty
They're equipping their colonies with the Warp system of traveling
While at the same time, there'll be people at both bands who yearn for the earth, and won't leave it. Given them all of Zeon's technology, no hard feelings but left at their luck
Might this people leaving Earth change the tides of the galaxy war?
We just could wait, for the RX-78 speedrun destroying the Death star any glitches%
Who needs a giant laser to destroy a planet when you have giant meteor colonies
Not just gundam and star wars but we had Warhammer 40k too
Imperial captains are gonna shit themselves when they see a red Zaku kick a TIE fighter into scrap metal
Great video man, I'm a big fan of both franchise. And I love that you "do your homework" and analyze everything on both gundam and Star Wars tech. And see who would win.🤟😍
Shields in Star Wars cannot block physical projectiles.
Good video but personally for me this out come is only if Zeon and the Earth federation had seen the threat coming I think it would be a little more bewildering for Zeon and the Earth federation to see three massive star cruisers drop out of light speed and not knowing who they are and what they want would be very scary that said if Zeon was the first to have an encounter with them because Zeon owns side 3 they would try to make contacted but would probably think it might be the Earth federations new weapon that said side 3 would be either taken or destroyed as space colonies don't stand a chance against star destroyers which might weaken Zeon as a whole because most of the higher ups in the Zabi family such as Degwin and Gihren would probably be dead on top of that space travel in the UC mobile suit universe take a lot longer then the star wars universe do to light speed the empire would probably have done a lot of damage and made to the earth long before any force could stop them or the Earth federation knew what hit them and personally I don't think Darth Vader would have passed up an expedition like this though he might that said it might happen as you say but I think Zeon and the Earth federation would be more psychologically and physically devastated and if the war carried on at some point the empire would make their own mobile suits you make good points but not necessarily if Zeon and the Earth fedys did not see it coming
We also need to take note that force sensitive pilots/combatants can easily change the outcome of the battle. Namely, if they are not prohibited from doing so, they could use the force to literally force the Gundam Ships to collide with one another and destroy the fleet while doing so.
Fun fact: The zaku S type is 30% Faster than the regular zaku, Ace pilots only use this but very hard to control. Only char aznable can control this
lmao citing Death Battle as a source. This fight takes place in space and, I don't know if you know this or not, there is no resistance in space. Reaching speeds of thousands of kilometers per hour isn't difficult when friction is removed from the equation. The real determinant factor here is acceleration, or how fast can you get to those speeds. The canonical acceleration of the MS-06F Zaku II is .59Gs (or 5.79 m/s²). Wookiepedia lists the TIE/LN's (the standard Tie Fighter) acceleration as 4,100 Gs (or roughly 40,200 m/s2). There is no way a Mobile Suit can compare in terms of speed with a Tie Fighter. Considering we have seen TIE series fighters make incredibly sharp banks and turns at high speeds, they likely have the maneuverability to match. Your listed speed of 1200 km/h for the Tie Fighter is explicitly stated on Wookiepedia as being it's atmospheric speed, ie. in an environment with atmospheric resistance acting against the ship.
Also in the canon short story Raymus, from the anthology A Certain Point Of View, the Tantive IV (Princess Leia's ship at the beginning of A New Hope) at full non-hyperspace acceleration could cross 0.25 parsecs (or 0.81 light years) in just 8 minutes. A light corvette is capable of exceeding the speeds of just about any UC-era space craft WITHOUT resorting to hyperdrive. The Imperial-1 Star Destroyer, Devestator, easily caught up with a fleeing Tantive IV in Episode IV: A New Hope, which means that class of Star Destroyer is faster than that.
You're also assuming parity of weapons, when they are only comparable if you purposefully low-ball Star Wars weapons. The high end goes into hundreds of megatons of TNT per shot, possibly reaching single digit gigatons. Hell, this would have been moot prior to 2014 back when 200 GIGATON PER SHOT on a turbolaser was canon. Even if you were to take an average of possible yields determined in fan calculations made in good faith, you would still have a weapons system that vastly exceeds what OYW-era UC (and possibly even later) could accomplish. If you accept higher strength weapons as a reality, by extension that would mean shields designed to withstand such weapons, which really makes things that much worse for the combined EFF and Zeon fleets.
TIE Fighters don't fight at those speeds, exactly. Although they can travel at high speeds, they're forced to fight within the limits of what amounts to mostly average or below average pilot reaction times. This is probably why droid star fighters were usually seen as superior to manned star fighters even when they were very cheaply produced. They also have very poor maneuverability in general, despite their sharp banking, since they clearly have difficulty coming to a stop or turning mid combat versus a normal space craft, or mobile suits which use an AMBAC system.
Even at the high end, TIE Fighters are not really suitable opponents for something which can move in 3-dimensions as mobile suits can, and given their lack of armor, they're basically going to suffer the same issues the Federation's Saberfish had. The early model Zakus are putting out A LOT of shots, versus their small number of attacks, can simply move to the side to dodge, and can easily lead their shots or just kick a TIE which makes the mistake of flying too close.
As for firepower, while the Federation never seemed to really care so much about it since they had a numbers advantage, Zeon knew the only way to really win was to take out Jaburo. Which is under over a kilometer of dirt, rock, and armor. Three weapons were developed to tackle this problem directly. The Big Zam, the Apsalas, and the Solar Ray. What we know is that the Big Zam was equipped with the most powerful beam gun developed at that time in the war, and the Apsalas failed to compete with it. We know the Solar Ray is more powerful than the Big Zam, and uses a non-descript laser array of some kind. We don't know much more powerful each is over the other excepting that a similar weapon to the Solar Ray was built by the Jupitris Empire, and was expected to be able to fire from Jupiter Orbit to hit the Federation headquarters of Jaburo in Brazil and destroy it.
The Apsalus II had a gun estimated to be able to punch through Jaburo's defenses from atmosphere over a period of a several seconds, and the final Apsalas III's gun deleted an entire mountain with a single shot. The Big Zam is more powerful than that, but it never has a chance to make the push on Jaburo, as it is destroyed during the Battle of Solomon. We never get to see it use its guns on anything other than ships.
The Big Zam was intended to enter mass production, with smaller, harder to hit units thatcould fly and enter and exit atmosphere as well as maintain the fire power of the Big Zam's main gun. Zeon never got the chance due to the fall of Solomon.
But I think we can surmise from what we know about these three weapons systems that no matter where you rank it, they certainly had the fire power even in the One Year War to handle even high end Star Wars with their small craft.
As of UC 0087/0088, the development of large scale ship mounted weapons was initialized by the AEUG, although I'm not sure why, as the Federation had moved its base from Jaburo by that point. It scuttled Jaburo with the use of a nuclear weapon which destroyed the entire base, and penetrated its defenses at multiple points along the system, which stretched for dozens of miles. I don't know if there's a way to rate it from the one scene we get of it.
The large scale ship weaponry has been depicted as being able to vaporize an entire colony in a single shot. Not disabled, damage, or simply 'destroy' as happened to them when nukes were still allowed to be used in the One Year War, but totally vaporized in a ball of plasma. We see the Argama use this weapon early on in ZZ Gundam while it's still being tested. A more advanced gun is mounted on the Nahel Argama, and is used to push an entire asteroid base, Pulau, when it is fired on the fortress. It's effectively pushing an entire city.
Traditionally in Gundam, ships are supposed to be firing support and cover fire for their deployed mobile suits to give them some degree of protection. They don't often close on each other following the One Year War. I don't think putting a big gun on a ship is a good idea, tactically, for Gundam vessels because they have no means of disabling each other like Star Wars does with ion weaponry. Their only e-war weaponry really comes in the form of their ability to scatter minovsky particles to pollute an area. Which means they aren't ideally suited for brawling since beam weapons are considered stronger than nukes usually, and no effective defense outside of hot running and expensive i-field generators exist at the time. So you're as likely to get hit as the enemy is when you start fighting with ships, and their most important role is as tender to the mobile suits between battles. You want to keep them away from the action... But, I think we can safely say that if they have the ability to mount weapons which can totally vaporize a space colony with walls dozens of meters think, and whose structures are something like 5+ miles wide by 30+ miles long, then they have the ability to hurt Star Wars ships pretty severely eventually, and they definitely had super weapons as early as the One Year War which could do the job as well.
Although UC Ships never have the capacity to match SW ships in terms of speed, their minovsky cloud I think makes up for it, since the Star Wars ships can't function properly once they come within a few hundred kilometers of them, and their preference is for knife fighting anyway. Being unable to detect where your enemy is kind of makes it hard to engage them. Gundam armor materials seem to be superior to Star Wars armor materials, although they lack shielding technology in the One Year War outside of I-Fields, and their fire power, especially on the small craft scale, exceeds TIE Fighters on an exponential level. It seems clear to me that all dog fights will go to the Gundam side, and any engagements they have will be on the Gundam side's terms, with communications, guided weapons, targeting, and possible shields all being disrupted. Navigation will also be heavily hit, all electronics on ships will malfunction, and they will likely suffer significant attenuation to all ray weapons of any variety. That's the nature of minovsky pollution. Droids especially will suffer. Given that small craft routinely take down big ships in Star Wars to the point that they are responsible for more big ship kills than big ships themselves, and we know Gundam small craft are better than TIE Fighters, and we know they will always be at knife fighting ranges, and we know the big ships will almost certainly be heavily hampered.. I'm not sure I'd be able to say that even with high balling it that the Empire would be able to win even a single naval engagement with the Gundam forces.
It just begins to stack too heavily in Gundam's favor. The only advantage the Imperial forces have here is that they'd be better at running away.
@@onigojira Addressing your 1st paragraph, first, please provide your evidence that TIE Fighters are incapable of fighting at those speeds. Even if it were unfeasible for them to fight at relativistic speeds, the point of the matter is that TIE Fighters are capable of higher speeds at higher accelerations than any of their OYW counterparts. As for their maneuverability, again, they make hard banks and right-angle turns at unfathomable speeds. Physically speaking the amount of force required to make such a turn at such speeds is insane. Further you are also assuming that Star Wars fighters are only capable of their "World War II dogfighting flight patterns." Their are countless examples in the non-film canon of starfighters doing things like cutting thrust, continuing on inertia, and doing 180 turns to fire behind them. Again, performing these maneuvers at the sort of speeds we're talking about would not be possible if the TIE Fighter weren't "maneuverable." Also if you for any reason think stopping in the middle of a fight is a good thing, then brother I have a tractor beam with your name on it.
Addressing your 2nd paragraph: A Zaku II could, theoretically, damage a TIE Fighter as it is made of a titanium alloy of some sort. However, please provide the evidence that a Zaku II or derivative is capable of hitting a target that is smaller, faster, and can engage at a further range than it.
Addressing your 3rd paragraph: Jaburo has never faced the possibility of being bombarded from orbit, repeatedly, with weapons that at minimum are mini-Hiroshima's and at maximum 1,000 times more powerful than the Tsar Bomb. In both Legends and modern continuity it is shown to clearly be within a Star Destroyer's capability of destroying underground facilities from orbit. You also seem to be lacking some basic knowledge of the One Year War era here. The Big Zam was never created with the intention of attacking Jaburo. It was but one of many attempts by Zeon at creating a wonder weapon that would win them the war (much like the Nazis from which Zeon was loosely based on) and wouldn't have been complete as of the time of this scenario. The Solar Ray was an Earth Federation superweapon that was essentially a giant solar mirror, but the weapon wasn't completed until the end of the war so wouldn't factor into this. I'm not sure which weapon you are referring to with regards to the Jupiter Empire, but again, that wouldn't be until almost a century after the period this scenario takes place. In other words, none of those matter.
Addressing your 4th paragraph: The Apsalus program wouldn't come to fruition until the end of the war, which again, is not part of this scenario.
Addressing your 5th paragraph: Again, the Big Zam and any mass-produced variants that may or may not exist, are irrelevant to this scenario.
Addressing your 6th paragraph: I don't think you have. As I have stated, repeatedly at this point, none of the weapon systems you've described would have been ready to put into service at this point of the war. If you have to pull in something from later in the timeline to earn your victory, then that is all but a concession that the combined EFF and Zeon fleet would lose. However, I will entertain your points with the following; the mobile armors you described do have formidable firepower. The unfortunate problem is the main weapons of the Big Zam and Apsalus series are shown as requiring some amount of charge time before firing. In the time it takes these mobile armors to prepare to fire, the Imperial squadron would have fired of dozens of shots of equivalent firepower. Their is also the question of their effective range. While the Apsalus II was impressive with its SIMULATED performance, it was still firing from within the Earth's atmosphere. We have regularly seen Star Destroyers in other materials bombard targets from various non-atmospheric orbits. Another significant problem is that the mobile armors described are seemingly incapable of full movement when charging their weapon, which leaves them vulnerable to attack.
Addressing yout 7th paragraph: Zeta Gundam era developments are irrelevant for the purpose of this scenario. I think you are referring to the large Mega Particle Cannon of the Arghama, which again, suffers from the same problems as the Mobile Armors you talked about earlier.
Addressing your 8th paragraph: Again, you are talking about weaponry that does not exist at the time of the scenario. I have watched little of Zeta or ZZ and mostly know the general plot beats and mechanics. However, I do not recall there being a non- Solar Ray or Colony Laser method to one-shot a colony during that period of UC (except for nuclear weapons). Can you please provide an example of one of those moments for my curiosity? It's also quite funny that you are impressed that the Nahel Arghama moved an asteroid with it's main gun, when Star Destroyer's typically DESTROY asteroids with their main guns.
Addressing your 9th paragraph: Nearly all of this is just rambling speculation if I'm being honest. The only thing of real merit you bring up is the fact that the EFF and Zeon capital ships are ill-prepared for this encounter.
Addressing your 10th paragraph: As I said in another discussion ongoing in this comment section, I do not believe Minovsky Particles will have any significant impact on Imperial sensor systems. Minovsky Particles are explicitly stated as effecting the low-frequency range of the electromagnetic spectrum. In various canon works, we see Star Wars sensors detect various forms of radiation which would indicate they operate across both low- and high-frequencies. Star Wars sensors have also shown the capability of feats such as determining the presence of living organisms on a vessel with relatively accurate count and detecting changes in local gravity fields. Neither of those feats would be possible on systems that relied entirely on low-frequency EM readings. It is highly likely that Star Wars sensors would only be minimally hindered at worst.
With regards to armor, you betray your own ignorance of the material. While Luna Titanium, the material used for the armor of the RX-78-2, is an impressive material, it was ultimately rendered a moot point by beam weaponry. When every potential enemy could carry a portable battleship cannon, the design philosophy of Mobile Suits moved away from layers of armor towards greater speed and maneuverability. By the time you get to the 2nd century UC, we see Mobile Suit design shrinks and continues the focus on avoidance of damage. Disregarding that later UC designs are irrelevant here, the Mobile Suits in the scenario, the lowly Zaku II, relies on a basic steel alloy. You don't need Hiroshima yield weapons to take that on.
Again, as I explained earlier, I do not believe the Imperials will have any real problems from Minovsky Particle fields. I also do not believe it will effect their electronic equipment. First, we know Minovsky Particle interference is not that dangerous to electronic systems because we see warships, shuttles, and Mobile Suits operating in Minovsky dense areas without catastrophic issue. Second, the Empire exists as a military organization in a universe where Ion Cannons and advanced ECM (Electronic Counter Measures) are a THING. It is not unreasonable to assume that the electronic systems of a Star Destroyer are shielded to some degree to attempt mitigating Ion blasts and other forms of electronic warfare. It is likely that would be sufficient to protect against damage from Minovsky fields. Third, all of this is predicated on the idea that Minovsky Particle fields would even be capable of going through Imperial shielding. At most the TIE Fighters are the only fleet element that will have a possibility of an issue, but as I've stated, I find it highly unlikely.
With all of this taken together, the Imperial fleet has the absolute advantage in speed, range, shielding, and firepower (even if you go with the lowest possible estimate, the Star Destroyer is firing weaponry as strong as the Mega Particle cannons at a faster firing rate, more accuracy, and greater range then the opposing force). The vaunted maneuverability of the Mobile Suit doesn't much matter when their opponents are capable of obtaining workable targeting data from their sensors.
@@MutantHeadcrab - Literally every movie where they don't fight at those speeds.
And the games.
And the comics.
They can fly in a straight line at those speeds but it's kind of like trying to take a turn at your maximum speed in a car. It's a stupid idea you keep the pedal to the medal when what you need is finesse.
We can visibly see they don't fight at those speeds. Their relative velocities to each other are pretty much never more than roughly a few hundred miles per hour. Your statement is so the contrary of literally everything we've seen that it makes me question if you actually watch or consume Star Wars media beyond just reading numbers in some cut-away picture book somewhere. I don't mean to be an asshole when I say that but what you've stated is just so incredibly to the contrary to the vast glut of available media both before and after the Disney purchase that I don't know how you could possibly take that stance if you actually saw any of that unless you were purposely being disingenuous in your comment.
Banking is not the same as coming to a stop, turning around, being able to fire behind you, etc. It's not as good. No matter what way you look at it.
TIE Fighters also blow up when they so much as nick something. Don't "acceleration = durability" me when we know they're held together by little more than the well wishes of their pilots. TIE's have a reputation for fragility for a reason. There's almost nothing to them.
To my knowledge, there are no examples of TIE Fighters fighting as if they are in vacuum. All examples I have seen to date, over the decades, is of them fighting like they are WW2 dogfighters in space.
Saberfish are literally smaller and faster than Zaku II's and they slaughtered them. Mobile Suits use visual based targeting systems due to the nature of minovsky interference. But this is still limited in range depending on the density of minovsky particles in a particle area. When at combat density, you can't reliably target or hit targets very far out. With no such interference, mobile suits can and do engage targets at tens of thousands of kilometers. Presumably, TIE Fighters can as well. Because what they're doing is just firing at thruster flares, IR signals, etc. Simple things any sensor suite should be able to pick up on in space when there's nothing to muck about with your reception of them. The TIE's speed isn't really an issue during approach, since it can't engage in traditional horizontal juking which mobile suits (and most mecha) can do to make themselves difficult to hit.
No matter how you look at it, mobile suits are just the better choice.
The only way Zeon can win the war is to take Jaburo. All projects inevitably lead to attacking Jaburo. I don't know why you would be so daft as to assume I'm making shit up when they flat out make it clear at multiple points in the lore that the goal is to attack Jaburo, and they keep making anti-fortress weapons with the capacity to do this. That's just insulting, man. They talk about it A LOT. It's a plot point in like three different shows. That is their only way to win the war besides the (illegal) Astaroth project. I'm not sure how you got it in your head that they don't matter, either. I also don't know why you'd bring up that Star Destroyers can function as buster bunkers when I never said that they were not. The entire point was to show that technology exists even during the One Year War to create small craft which can completely decimate even Super Star Destroyers. The Solar Ray is a colony laser. The Solar System is the mirror array.
About the only thing I got wrong was that the Jupiter colony laser wasn't built until Crossbone. It wasn't meant to take out Jaburo. It was meant to "destroy the planet." Although that might just mean wiping out all life on it as opposed to actually destroying it.
The Big Zam requires no charge time. It just fires. I suspect this is a big reason why the Apsalas project was canceled and the Big Zam was not despite the two being so similar. But I don't have any lore to back it up. It's just the only reason I can think of as to why it managed to stay funded and Apsalas got cut off.
I'm not sure why you think a few months of time isn't something that will be in the equation when wars take months to years to get through.
You can't act like the simulated performance isn't based on actual numbers they pulled from data they took on it. Your statement is also moot since it was firing in atmosphere, where the nature of megaparticle weapons imposes severe beam attenuation problems. Beam weapons work better in the void of space. Beyond that, the Apsalas II's gun pales in comparison to the Apsalas III's, and that's not even supposed to be as powerful as the Big Zam's. The Big Zam also never had to stop to fire its gun. The Apsalas III had balance issues because they jerry rigged it. None of the big mobile armors besides it showed this issue. The mass produced Bigros in particular are well known for their ability to move at high speeds while firing their heavy beam gun.
You keep going on about how it's pointless to talk about later UC tech, but your own comment addresses later UC. Did you forget that you said that?
The Empire is 100% vulnerable to minovsky interference. The vehicles you cite in Gundam are specifically shielded and some even produce their own particles. Non-shielded equipment cannot function normally, and the visible light spectrum is even shrouded. They exist in a setting where Ion Weapons, ECM, EMP, etc all work amazingly well against anything they're pointed at. They have no defense against this. It's going to not just mess them up, it might render their vehicles totally inoperable to the point that they're just floating space debris.
That's boring to talk about, so while I think that's the most likely scenario, I don't really want to discuss it any further than minovsky interference having its typical nasty effects.
The first time the Hyper Mega Particle Cannon is tested in ZZ Gundam it destroys an entire colony. Episode 17, it also seems to vaporize a bunch of asteroids in the way as well, although I don't know how big they were. It strikes the colony, and then completely erases it.
The 9th Paragraph where I say that in the UC0080's they'd have ship mounted weapons that can one shot Star Destroyers? Yeah, I'd ignore that point too if I were you. =)
Zaku II armor is flatly better than any TIE model's to my knowledge. Titanium is only one component of it. You kind of go on at length about how suits drop Gundarium in favor of cheaper materials due to the power of beam weapons but that doesn't really have an impact on anything I said, I think. Although if you really wanted to go on about that, there's no weapon any mass produced Imperial small craft carries to my recollection which could actually hurt the Gundam, or anything else which incorporated Luna Titanium as an armor material.
Your assumption is that the Star Wars side is going to win because you're comparing Musais to Star Destroyers. You're making the same mistake the Federation did. Whichever side has the better small craft wins. That's all it comes down to. Once the Zakus have made mince meat of the TIE's, the Star Destroyers really can only hope to turn around and run before they let the mobile suits close on them. If it gets to the point there's GM's and Gelgoogs flying around, they're firing weapons that turn Luna Titanium armor to butter where megaton yield nuclear armaments failed to do so. They'll carve open Super Star Destroyers faster than the TIE Droids did.
@@onigojira These comments have made me realize why I got out of the nerd community of comparing fictional civilizations. We become so consumed with the idea of defending a beloved franchise, but to what end? What do we gain as human beings in debating wether one fictional franchise is "better" than the other?
No, the real winner of this conflict are the corporations who own these franchises. It benefits corporations for consumers to fraction into brand name cliques. Buying licensed product to show solidarity; support that goes unappreciated as only the money you spent matters.
That is to say we are not free of sin. Why am I not making a rebuttal video? Why is no one here creating a written work or drawing or any other artituc idea to express their beliefs? It is because we are under the thumb of global hegemonists that want to suppress our creativity. Otherwise, we would realise the shackles of this false world they have built around us, literally, as we are trapped in a simulation designed to maximize human suffering. They conspire to break us, marginalize us, and ultimately reduce us to malleable puppets unwilling to question our cage.
Also if I'm going to support a giant robit show, It's going to be good giant robot show like Code Geass.
This really all comes down to deflector shield technology. For the most part we know way more about some franchises deflector shield technology compared to other franchises.
Beam weaponry in Gundam actually has unlimited range as well. The problem is that Earth's atmosphere diffuses the charged particles. In order to bombard Earth you would need a superlaser style beam rifle. Which was the plot of Steel seven and the original purpose of colony lasers.
Bruh, the ISD's 2 had over 120 guns, among wich 6 octuple barbette turbolasers, able to cripple any ship in a few blows if unshielded, plus ion cannons to desable enemy shields and ships and a wide array of turbolasers and some torpedo launch tubes.
Plus, the isd could literally focus fire in their front, this means that the enemy ships would have 120 guns pointed at them, most of wich can VAPORIZE large asteroids in one shot. Furthermore, turbolases had a rate of fire of a shit every 2 seconds, a very high rate compared to what we see in the zeon(i think you write it like that) or earth federation ships.
And yes, unless they fired slugs from a very big rail guns, phisical objects were blocked, we saw an isd resosting to the pounding of asteroids while travelling trough the asteroid field at Hoth, they don't last forever, but they last for a while.
The isd's trumped over the other two factions ships.
Also also, the ISD didn't just carry 72 tie fighters, but 72 tie line, wich translated to (usually)
48 tie fighters (agile, nimble, but literal glass cannons)
12 Tie bombers
12 tie interceptors
Creating an effective and dangerous force for those suits to overcome, especially since the interceptors could demolish cargoships twice or thrice the size of the suits with a few blows, we saw it in rebels.
I think that you should've researched more about the isd, not a bad video, just slightly inaccurate.
Hi Michele, thanks for commenting! You've brought up two excellent points I want to touch on!
First, the rate of the fire on ISD, I think it depends on what you reference. In the original trilogy, I don't think were shown turbo lasers from an ISD firing that fast. (They put on out a lot lasers, but it's hard to say how many of those lasers were fired from the same cannon). However in Rebels, specifically Thrawn's bombardment, they definitely can. I was thinking of the firing rate in the movies.
Since we're talking about the Turbo lasers, yes if the Gundam fleets came head-on to the Star Destroyers, where every gun could fire at them, they would be destroyed. However, this all depends on where they approach from. In the video, I had the other fleets approach from a flanking position, reducing their exposure to only half the guns. This seemed fair to me because, the front would be suicide, and approaching from the bottom (where we aren't shown nearly as many guns) would be too easy. I believe the scenario I chose was the most fair to both Universes.
Second, the TIE Fighters on board, that is something I came across in my research, but I left it out for a few reasons. 1) TIE Interceptors, their presence depends if we are talking Star Wars Legends or Disney Canon. In Legends, they don't show up until late in the Galactic Civil War, but in Rebels they are present before the battle of Yavin. So their inclusion was a toss-up. 2) TIE Bombers, if they were included they would've destroyed the other capital ships, but they wouldn't do well against the mobile suits (from my experience of Star Wars games, TIE Bombers are just too big a target). I left it at the TIE Fighters because they certainly would've been there and would've had the most impact against the greatest threat in Gundam, mobile suits.
Overall, I agree with the sentiment - Star Destroyers kill all other capital ships. But in the end, it was the mobile suits that were the biggest influencer on the outcome. , so I simplified things (on both sides) to focus on that.
@@CrazyKnuckles hm, i see your point, the imperials should've sent in some lance class frigates to take care of possible fighter, or in this case mobile suits, but they rarely cared about starfighters (and it showed).
Tho one thing, wouldn't the suits be demoloshed by the cannons once they get too close to dodje? Not that that would chamge things too much, but still, something that came to my mind.
Other thing is, while the flanking would've helped the two fleets out, they stiĺl had 180 guns each to deal with, wich is a lot still (from how i saw the three ships positioned against the enemy fleets), but we could assume that the zeon and EA used metals that were somewhat similarly durable as Durasteel, tho it doesn't seem to be the case by what i have been able to see in most parts of the show, but then again, i am not much of aknowledged in gundam lore, so i may be mistaken in my assumtpion.
@@michelecastellotti9172 Yeah, if the Imperials brought Lancer class frigates with them, it definitely would've made huge difference.
I believe a turbo laser hit would vaporize a mobile suit, but I assume they would focus on the ships and leave mechs to the TIE Fighters. I imagine that's the naval doctrine the Empire instills in it's navy crew (pairing each weapon with what it does best: use the big guns against large targets, and through TIE Fighters at the small stuff).
The materials part actually could get pretty interesting. Gundam doesn't get to specific on the ships, but many mobile suits are made of "Gundarium". Obviously it's just a name to answer why it's strong - but what's cool is the Bandai (the company that owns Gundam) released a model kit line using a unique metal alloy mixture and they called the alloy "Gundarium". It includes Titanium, Yttritum, and Aluminium. The crazy thing is Yttritium is actually used to increase the strength of metals.
So yeah, that doesn't answer how strong it is, but it's fascinating a company takes its own lore so seriously.
@@CrazyKnuckles hmm, i see, thats cool of bandai.
im still wondering that why theres no e.f.s.f mobile suits and newtype stuffs :/
Char would just use politics to win and maybe drop something very large on them ...
I always loved idea of a space faring faction in star wars having mobile suits and technology similar to both Uc & Cosmic era. Mobile suits would be game changer if was introduced to the star wars univesre. Could you do similar battle with ms and ships from zeta era, chars counter attack era, or gundma unicorn era? Also what is range of beam weapons in gundam?
When I heard the zaku 2s, but which variants of it? As far I know there's C types and R types
Has anyone mentioned minovsky particles yet?
Lol, many people have....
I omitted them here because I was unsure to what degree they should effect Star Wars tech. It reasonable to assume minovsky particles effects it to some degree, but Star Wars doesn’t attempt to follow physics - so I kept to to raw fighting potential of their respective tech
@@CrazyKnuckles That might change the equation here because it affects radio communication and radar, so the empire force will not be able to fight or organize.
After all, Minovsky particles was THE justification in the UC gundam universe for using close combat mobile suits (aka giant robots) instead of fighter jets. Totally not because some toy company wants to steal our money.
BTW, when I saw the title of the video I thought it was about how Japanese borrowed the light saber idea and gave it to 18m tall machines. But it turned out to be way more fun than that. Great job!
The empire has 1 Sith as the other does not pilot and sits on his a**. Both Zeon and Federation have new types. If a A-Wing can take down super star destroyer by raming the bridge than average a average mobile suit pilot would just shoot the bridges as that is a common tactic anyway. Star destroyers can barely hit a x-wing let alone hit a Zakus moving 5 times faster. The Empires only hope is Thrawn to outwit the federation and Zeon but he’s most likely not around. Let’s be real. The Empire is ran by mostly idiots who don’t know battle and we’re given high positions because there rich.
I do not think the Empire has chances if it’s fighting Unicorn and Banshee. I mean the unicorn could just go into crystallized mode and turn back time on all the Empires stuff.
If the this battle took place at the end of the one year war like around the time of the battle of A Boa Qu, both Zeon and the EFF would solo an imperial fleet.
I think it would be fair to put 1 v 1 battles not 1 v 2 maybe Galactic Empire vs The Principality of Zeon and then The Resistance vs The Earth Federation,also Char Aznable is the Japanese Darth Vader
I’m actually working on a video for one of those... exciting times are ahead!
im not sure about the char darth vader thing he was just a pilot not a general, just a commander
Can you do more of this, here my list in my mind
- Titanfall versus Gundam (IMC vs Zeon and EF)
- COD Infinite Warfare versus Gundam (UNSA or SDF vs Zeon and EF)
- Halo versus Gundam (UNSC or other vs Zeon and EF)
Death battle is not a reputable source
Agreed, I couldn’t find a better source, in English anyways, so I used what ways available to me.
Pre watched: As every gundam gen the early era's would probably be a quite even. However pass the gun wing and you probably get massive disadvantages for the Empire. Also the gundam's shields have definitely stopped beam weapons (excluding dus ex super kill everything plot weapons)
Ok, so beam weapons aren't laser weapons. And the armor used are practically immune to all laser based weapons.
The beam weapons used compressed particles to rip away things at a molecular level (physical with mass and weight) and can't be deflected by using magnetic shields. And have ranges from like 30km to 1000km or farther as the weapon scales in size, so comparable to the empires I think...
as long as the empire doesnt use real bullets and keep using lasers, most of MS with a layer of anti lasers shield will never get hurt
I thought I'd give a few pointers since you seemed kind of iffy about some areas, mostly in Gundam but also in Star Wars?
Considering how utterly core minovsky particle interference is to early combat fleet combat in Universal Century, not using it during the time it was most heavily used to the point it was considered a war crime to employ it the way they did after the One Year War is.. silly.
Granted, it's already silly that the Federation was so extremely adamant about sticking to classic big gun design, and we saw how badly that went when Zeon spanked them using converted freighters with 1/30th the fighting strength of the Federation navy.
There's also the fact that the entire Imperial fleet may just *stop working* on the spot as soon as it flies into the minovsky cloud. Which would be boring.
But, you are definitely imposing the range limitations that Gundam warships suffer (which limits them to fighting at a few hundred kilometers usually) from that Minovsky Interference.
Star Wars has two different kinds of shields. Particle and Ray shields. Particle shields are rarer than Ray shields, but most cap ships do have them, although they don't usually seem to be as strong due to the rarer use of missiles and ballistics in space?
I don't think the Federation would join forces with the Zeon, especially if this is at the beginning, when they still have all of their fleets before they got swiss cheesed by Zeon jumping them.
You should remember that the Zaku II at the start of the one year war was deployed as the C-Type, which was armed with special lead shielding to keep them protected from the atomic ordinance they were deploying. When we see their bazookas one shotting those 400 meter ships or those big, like, 2km explosions on the colonies, that's the nukes these things are throwing at big targets.
Granted, by the end of the One Year War, you have the nuke-ignoring Gundam line, and beam weapons on mobile suits giving individual pilots the fire power of capital ships. So it's difficult to pick where a "good" spot to use to make things interesting.
I don't like considering Turbo Lasers as lasers (they seem like plasma blasters to me), but it is worth noting that laser weapons are almost useless in Gundam due to a special coating they have against such weapons. This is why they never use lasers in Gundam most of the time. We see the colony laser, which is supposedly strong enough to take out Jaburo from Jupiter orbit, which is situated under a kilometer of solid rock and armor, take dozens of seconds to chew through this while continuously bathing Federation ships in its beam. So, if your opinion is that they ARE lasers, as I know some people are pretty adamant about, then you should know about that.
If you have any questions, I'd be glad to try and give answers or point you in the right direction for them if I don't know myself.
Thank you for the super detailed response! I know this took a while, so I take it as huge complement!
I mostly want to respond about the Minovsky particles, I am aware of them but I intentionally decided to omit them here. There were 2 reasons for this: 1) I wanted this video to be understandable to the “average” Star Wars fan, so I thought it was most important to focus on the basics of who’s fighting each other and what they use (mobile suits). 2) I 100% agree they would have an impact, but it was hard to decide to what degree. At a minimum, I felt they should impact Imperial targeting and shields - but Star Wars is not known for adhering to physics. As Gundam fan, I thought it was reasonable but as a Star Wars fan, I could justify minimizing it or at an extreme ignore. Since I figured Gundam would win without accounting for them, I hoped to avoid a fan war by just comparing the raw engineering of the combat machines.
I appreciate your comment about the range of the Gundam ships. I’ve read a few other comments about it and I’m starting to agree with it. For this video, I asked how far CAN they fire, but I like the reminder to consider at range do they MOST OFTEN fire at: and in that case Gundam should have the edge.
It’s interesting to consider this battle if Zeon and the EFF didn’t join up, assuming they have a range advantage. It would be an interesting 3 battle.
Thanks again for the info!
@@CrazyKnuckles - I know the technology lore in Gundam, especially on Minovsky Physis, is sort of stupidly deep, but to simplify it in the future I'd just say..
Their nuclear reactors put out a special particle which has a strong EMP-like effect. This massively inhibits sensors in areas where these particles are spread which forces them to engage in relatively short range battles. It effects visible light, most energies, especially electronics not specially shielded, and makes remote operated or guided weaponry such as missiles and drones almost impossible to use at range as well. It is for this reason that ace pilots and small fighter craft have risen to the forefront of warfare once again.
It is the basis upon which much of their more fantastic technology is built and these effects are the driving forces behind why their weapons and vehicles end up looking and operating and fighting the way they do.
If you want you can steal that, in part or in whole, modify, whatever.
@@CrazyKnuckles - As for range, the Geminus (or is it Geminas? I can't recall) was firing from orbit during the Grypps conflict. During the OYW Zeon used mass drivers on the moon to bombard Russia. It's supposedly a big reason why there's not really much of a war going on there. It's largely pulverized and the Federation gave it up.
As well, during the First Neo-Zeon War era, the FAZZ units have a scene where they are sniping at targets in a combat situation where no ships have spread minovsky particles to foul up sensors. They're basically shooting at twinkling dots in the distance their targets are so far away. Their beam attacks were traveling at roughly ten thousand kilometers per second. Beam weapons are not anywhere as fast as lasers obviously, but it has been noted that if you are in knife fighting range, you can't dodge a beam after it has been fired. You dodge where it is aiming. Their targets in that scene were roughly "a few tens-of-thousands-of-kilometers" away and it took their beams 3 seconds to get there. I usually equate "few" with "three". But obviously the speed and range of the weapon increases if you disagree with that assessment and say "few" equates to four or five, as I have seen some do.. But I've never personally used the word to mean such.
Wasn't it the effects of the Minovsky particle that made laser weapons kinda useless?
@@matteste - They were kind of the final nail in the coffin, I'd say. Special anti-laser coating already existed to provide an ablative protective. Until it ran out the target was effectively immune.
A bit misleading on that Zeon intro summary, they are more based on Imperial Japan with German aesthetics. This is why I fear normies flooding into my Gundam
Huh, I’ve never heard that before. I guess it should be a surprise, Tomino basing it on his own country - but the aesthetic, Gihren comparing himself to Hitler, gassing civilians makes the German connection very easy easily drawn. It can be connected to practically everything I see.
Spacenoid superiority rhetoric can easily be associated with German or ultra nationalist Japanese ideology of the 1940’s.
I’ve only thought about this for 20 minutes and it’s been quite fun!
@@CrazyKnuckles - Gihren definitely adopted Nazi-like tendencies. But the show makes it clear this is an outlier. The other Zabis are not like him. I often say each represents different kinds of evils with the world. Degwin himself realizes that Gihren is doomed to die by the hands of his own people and seems concerned that Kycilia is up to even greater feats of evil.
Garma represents the least of the evils, that being the detached nature of the upper class and how rifts between the classes can cause problems. Garma is viewed as a spoiled brat and in many ways early on he is. But he does grow and in timelines where he lives he ultimately becomes an accomplished and respected leader, backed up by his brother Dozle.
Both of whom, you might notice, don't ever do anything particularly Nazi-like. Dozle, for instance, is more like a banchou. He represents a kind of might-makes-right sort of survivalist thinking where blind loyalty and double think can cause you to muscle innocent people in the name of sticking-to-your-guns. A lot of people die because he refuses to accept that his brother Gihren could possibly be doing something wrong, and following Gihren's plan ultimately even causes him to have a mental breakdown in The Origin as he tries to ignore the atrocities that resulted because of the take over of Island Iffish and dropping it on Earth.
In some ways, he can be equated to some Nazi officers who understood what was happening was wrong but did it anyway because they couldn't allow themselves to accept that their side was wrong. But this is really an issue with every fascist regime, and it's even a talking point today about the higher ups in Russia's military while discussing the Ukrainian War. But Dozle doesn't accept that his siblings could be so flawed until Garma dies, and the tide of the war is reversed, and he finds himself having to prepare a defense for Solomon that he never expected he'd need. By then it's too late, and keeping his wife and child safe are the only things he cares about. Unlike the actual Nazis, who poisoned their own families when they thought their bunkers would be overrun. In fact very few Zeon resorted to suicide when they realized victory was impossible.
Degwin = Coups, government corruption, regret for using "the ends justify the means"
Gihren = Hitler, using hate and cultural superiority as propaganda to normalize violence.
Kycilia = Imperial Japan with the internal conflicts, horrific experiments, etc
Garma = The class rift between common people and aristocracy
Dozle = Gang-like mentalities, brutishness, blind loyalty
That's a gross over simplification, but you kind of get the idea.
Also one thing I wanna point out, what if it become a man-to-man battle, that stormtroopers are landed on earth Or any colony, then clash with Federation Or Zeon's foot soldier, how will it end? Or even more specifically say, a Newtype soldier face a jedi/sith, how their fight will be?
I'd give Zeon Char and his Zaku II S if the Empire are going to have any force users and for the Federation, The RB-79 Ball, RGM-79 GM and Armuro with the RX-78-2 Gundam if we are sticking to the OYW.
Char Aznable's red Zaku vs 10 star destroyers when?
very interesting but...... what about the minovsky particles?
I like the bionicle music you used
do you make gundam seed zaft vs warhammer40k?
Hey, what about the Earth Federation Fighter pilots and their Carriers?
Great question! I’ve seen this one come in a few times today. There are two reasons why I didn’t mention the fighters:
1) In The Origin OVA the fighters and carriers are mentioned but don’t play a significant role. The capital ships are doing all the damage and the fighters mainly appear to get shotdown. Naturally I think they can contribute more, but they were shown to be an afterthought, so that primed me to believe the battleships were the main damage dealers and that the fighters were negligible.
2) My second reason is not a great one, but I don’t have model for those. When I decided to make this video I wanted to use the models I had to make this video more special.
I guess it comes down to different forms of bias for this one in particular. I can’t deny this video was also an excuse play with the figures in front of a blue screen.
@@CrazyKnuckles The feds seemed to treat their Strike craft (Sabrefish) as more of a tool to defend the fleet (at the start of the war both Zeon and the federation had conventional space fighters, the aforementioned sabrefish for the feds and the Gattle for Zeon) the sabrefish whilst capable of engaging hostile warships are mainly their to picket against hostile space fighters and any warships that had broken into the formation (we see this in the origin with a pair destroying a musai with their rocket pods) however vs mobile suits they were shown to be ineffectual unless using hit and run or swarm tactics, many of the federations mobile suit Aces during the OYW were former fighter pilots whether in space with a sabrefish or earthside with a tincod, mongoose etc.
Lol all fun and games till the Colony Laser gets involved.
Is fun and games until setsuna f seiei and kira yamato involved in battle.
And far more worst they both had 00 quanta and strike freedom
Old version
also where is the Gundam shields, they have space colonies so how can they not have shields, they grow food in space in the gundam.
Mobile Suit Gundam Origin has showcase the extreme performance of Zakus even by normal pilots, these things are actually fast,, can turn better, have good ABS stabalizers and can turn. Tiefighters have to rotate their entire body, forced to make wider turns for a fly pass.
Unlike Tie Fighter, Zakus can equipped with both anti starfighter guns and anti ship weaponry and devastated fleets of warships and starfighters.
Is that Bionicle Music in the background?
you are forgetting the Miniovsky Interference and how that played such a big role in neutering the massive firepower advantage of the EFSF Fleet. If you are going by the Origin story then the EFSF also has a lot of Saber Fish space fighters, which once again where mostly renderd useless by minsovsky interference ut would probably be pretty useful in a proper space battle without that problem. SO, could the combined EFSF and eon fleets use Minvsky Jamming to at least even the field? would tie fighters and ISD have to rely on short range sensors and lose most of their ranged advantage? ALSO you forget that We have Nukes that could be used and also a colony or large recours asteroid could be used to hide the fleet behind and absorb at least some fire. A colony could even be dropped on the ISDs it prba;y would not get to them intact but it would create a hige field of debris which would obscure sensors and once again reduce the high range advantage of the ISD and force them to get much closer.
On the Ground if the Galactic Emprie was forced to occupy the planet, taking earth Intact then the EFF could do exactly what they did in cannon and simply use huge numbers of conventional weapons which would be much more effective against SW as we often see that SW ground forces and weapons are nowhere near as good as old school bullets, missile, artillery and tanks which the EFF has plenty of. meanwhile the MS would literally just push over an AT-AT and stomp on an AT-ST lol. but in space? i think with the right tactics a bunch of MS could get close and literally chop them apart (you already have that). The problem is that Star Wars ships are much more advanced especially if using OYW era tech. the Galactic empire would probably just destroy a few colonies and base delta zero a few cities on Earth if needed to convince the EFF that resistance is literaly a death sentence. What would likely happen is large scale capitulation followed by a drawn out gureilla war both on the ground and in space with remnants using space debris, resource asteroids and destroyed colonies to hide like the Zeon Remnants did. Meanwhile the EFF ground forces would probably use the same tactics the Zeon Remnants did and make use off all sorts of hidden bases and hard terrain like we see in the 8th MS Squad to hide entire armies for a long drawn out war of grueilla attrition. this would last until the empire got sick of Earth and decied to Base Delta Zero a few more cities just to make the point that WE HAVE EARTH SURROUNDED BY GIANT FUCKING SPACE SHIPS.
These franchise battles are always a pain. Just going by the Kardashev Scale, Gundam is a type 1 & Star Wars is a type 3 civilization, that is not a far fight.
Gundam UC 0079, has only colonized with in the moon's orbit, they don't have warp drives.
You could make the argument that Mobile Suits are so OP & range into the area of being too dangerous for this civilization, they wiped out half their population within the first month of the one year war.
Also if this is a Pre-Loum moment, then Zeon's force will pretty much equiq with NBC shit, but if it is After Loum, then their fleet probably not in a good shape like what he mentioned in the video.
I believe there should be 3 moment are good to work as a benchmark of Earth circle's technology.
1.Right before the OYW(0078.12.31);
2.Right after GM has been massive produce (somewhere in Oct 0079)
3.Time-unsensitive, just let Feddie and Zeek join with their full arsenal.
1 is the best time for a United operation for Feddie and Zeek, not to mention both of them are unscratched yet;2 let both of Feddie and Zeek have a proper MS force, and 3 is simply just including all tech of earth circle.
gundam universe without gundam XD. i mean i guess its more fair. imagine the 00 universe in this scenario XD.
this fight war really not fair obiously the galactic empire eas gonna win it sould have been galactic empire vs legend of the galactic heroes