Just a bit of things I want to elaborate on that didn't end up in the final cut: In my first draft of the segment, I wrote I drew a few parallels between this movie and Hamilton mainly with how the change in the political climate resulted in a lot of re-examining of both pieces of media despite receiving near universal positive acclaim when they came out. Zootopia is inarguably the most overtly political movie that either of the two animation studios under the Disney umbrella and I think that's part of the reason why it made the amount of money that it did. It was something that general audience members had seen or expected from them before, similarly to what Hamilton was for musical theatre. I think that the issues a lot of people have with discussions surrounding this movie though is how some (but definitely not all) of its defenders try to say that analysis of its subtext and messaging don't matter because of the target audience, and its popularity only adds to that. A lot of this stems from an insecurity that people who come from marginalized communities having criticisms with the way they're identities and struggles are depicted in media is automatically a condemnation for anyone who says something remotely positive about it. I definitely can't speak on behalf of everyone, but I think it all ties back to what can be gained from the media in question. I personally think it's okay to enjoy stuff that's has some political blind spots or insensitivities (as long as you LISTEN to people who do consider it to be problematic). Your video perfectly highlights how disingenuous it is to say that it's portrayal of these issues being flawed doesn't automatically negate the value of what the movie has to offer on its own merits and in a larger social context, especially for again...the target audience. I also figured here would be a good place to give a condensed explanation of what I was talking about when I criticized the cop plotline. "Copoganda" is a word that I think gets misused frequently (i.e. a fictional cop character isn't depicted as the embodiment of all evil means the media in question is endorsing/ignoring the racism that the police as an institution often perpetuate in a way that often goes unchallenged). My issue with how it's depicted here is how it plays into Judy's arc. Her acknowledgment that she (and arguably the rest of the ZPD) being a contributing factor in making life more difficult for predators like Nick and choosing to step down as a result is a very mature direction to take her character that's almost radical for Disney. So that's why both of them going back in the end rather than just being independent detectives, Nick especially, kind of rubs me the wrong way with each rewatch. If this video existed as a solo project on my end I probably could elaborate, but I didn't want to disrupt the pacing with how much I have to say about this. Overall, I'd say this is a pretty strong analysis. Thank you so much for having me on and also reminding me about the existence of Bright (2018).
"A lot of this stems from an insecurity that people who come from marginalized communities having criticisms with the way they're communities having criticisms with the way they're identities and struggles are depicted in media is automatically a condemnation for anyone who says something remotely positive about it"????? What do you mean with that?? Sorry if I didn't understand that very well. Sorry. What do you mean with what you said?
THIS is the greatness Disney is capable of. Judy's growth and Nick's depth (actually showing us why he is the way he is rather than just talking about it like a lot of sympathetic thieves who try to come off more charming/cool than they actually end up being) really made them an amazing duo. I do think this is a rare case where a twist villain was necessary for Disney, but I regret not seeing what happened to Bellweather to make her see things in a skewed way.
A comment for the algorithm! Very happy to see a new upload, and also a very very pleasant surprise to see you tackling such a deep topic in such an excellent way - Thank you. It is awesome to see you investigate these themes, instead of engaging in a surface-level "Oh look. Anyways..." It is very refreshing, thank you for your delightful input c:
Ah damn i wasn't a collab between you two! Neat 🐐🐐 Ah there were some points i hadn't thought about like with the shock collar. I also had some similar ideas on how this movie isn't actually accidentally racist as well. People forget the drugs are just drugs. They don't open up a hidden side of the brain that make them go back to their true nature or something like that. I feel like the opening stage play is exaggerated. It shows casual racism like "the world was bad but now we're all friends :)"
First off, I'd like to say I really appreciate how respectful this speech in this video is. It actually makes people wanna engage with it even if I disagree with quite a bit instead of just write it off like some others that aren't relevant to talk about here. I think fundamentally Zootopia is already at such a disadvantage because it's playing hard into the animal aspects of herbivores vs carnivores (us vs them,) but one side has justification for their hatred as the carnivores are biologically created to eat meat or prey on herbivores. Yes, I personally see how there's different cultures, races, ethnicities that can be seen if you factor in the breed of animal aspect, but the loud outcry and the thing that is most reminiscent to familiar hate from humanity is the Herbivore vs Carnivore climax I feel. It's also hard to talk about such strong divisive issues with cops being shown in a good light as minorities in America (more specifically people of my kind) have VERY VALID justifications to hating police and wanting reform as we were forced into an unfair system that doesn't benefit us at all and has actively worked against us. I also wanna say I don't feel powerful topics like racism should be "watered down" for the aspect of a kids movie. Racism is really brutual and it just needs to be strong if you're gonna implement it imo. It can of course have the more subtle side of racism, but Zootopia doesn't do the strong parts of racism it does have very well in my opinion. Just do an easy comparison there's an episode of Static Shock that showcases racism in it's purest form and I think it's a good example of how it can be done well for children's media. I heard you state "just because a movie about prejudice doesn't correlate with American racial politics, doesn't make it irrelevant." That must be a common talking point if you're bringing it up, and I agree. It's just easier for people to use what they've experienced to speak for themselves and the environment Zootopia is in is sorta a "fill in the blank" place, so it makes sense to fill in that space with a place you're familiar with imo. Lastly, I wanna talk about why I dislike Judy. Her drive is endearing alongside her humble beginnings. She doesn't reallu become trash until Nick gets involved. She's what I personally hate about some individuals in the sense she's tryna to CHANGE Nick to meet HER ideals of good. She uses Nick for her own gain and I'm apparently supposed to care about her growth?? If she actually grew and started to understand Nick besides the "i feel sorry for you," I'd personally have more respect. She doesn't really care about why Nick's choices were made and how they were justified, she just wants him to become her type of good and ends up enlisting him in the police force lmao. She destroys SO MUCH of society with her speech of saying "carnivores are bad and it's in their nature" and she faces 0 REPRECUSSIONS FROM IT. Not that it'd matter because the damage is already done, but she actually gets rewarded for it as nobody acknowledges it and she stays in power. It's just wild to me. One thing I live by is "even good people are great at making bad decisions," but Judy irritates me in a way I can't fully express. I don't wanna make it seem like I'm tryna say you're wrong for feeling however you want about this media, it's meant to be interpreted! I enjoy perspectives as long as they're not dangerous. I just wanted to explain my viewpoint as a black person tbh.
Something I found interesting about the film is how it plays with stereotypes about animals that vary from accurate to inaccurate. How stereotypes are either based on facts or false assumptions that can either undermine or have unrealistic expectations about someone. Like how Sloths being naturally slow is a stereotype proven right or how the Yak assumes the Elephant has a better memory than him which caused him to undermine himself and keeps giving her unearned praise.
Watching this video after completing Metaphor Re:Fantazio is definitely interesting, as I almost consider them two sides of the prejudice coin. Zootopia brilliantly shows us the insidious “blind spots of the enlightened,” as you put it, and Metaphor doesn’t often touch on that (instead focusing more directly on characters with more blatant class/racial biases), but what Metaphor does is it takes the next step. The game asks, “things are like this and that’s bad. What can we do?” That’s the game- a struggle over the very nature of idealism and optimism. The characters are inspired by a fictional novel depicting a world of no magic, democratic systems, and one tribe- a clear analogue for our world, but a wholly sanitized one. As your new allies read passages from the book and learn about this dream of a utopian future, they keep poking holes in it. They keep saying “that wouldn’t actually help, that would just spark more problems, I’m not sure anyone would accept this,” etc. The concept of imagining a world where “anyone can be anything” is systematically broken down- and yet still supported at the end. As we learn more about characters with warped ideals, crushed dreams, those who started on the right path and lost their way, the idea of believing that things can be better in society is both accepted as an impossible dream and held up as one we should be chasing all the same. The only thing that separates the protagonist and his party from those who’ve lost their way is… effectively, their scope; their goal is never something so big that it crushes itself as they morally slip to achieve it, they always just want to rescue the prince. That’s it. It’s a simple and selfless goal, not some high-minded ideal that could lead them astray in any direction. All they do is in service of immediate dangers, clear evils threatening the populace at that moment. In presenting the party this way, game posits that the way to keep striving towards that fictional ideal is to keep putting one foot in front of the other, making sure in every moment you’re doing so for the right reason. So perhaps, that’s where Zootopia and Metaphor meet: right at the end, where we all just need to put that foot forward. Is it too nice, too foolish to imagine that that many people will be taking that step alongside us? Perhaps… But that’s never been a good reason to stop doing the right thing.
So, in conclusion, what needs to be examined in society and in the media is also prejudice, in its passive and hidden nature, in all possible forms and that good people can also be prejudiced in some things, right? Anyway, thank you for this analysis, because, at the time, I felt alone, because I discovered that I still had prejudices about some types of people even though I didn't have any horribly bad intentions towards those people. Now, with your analysis, I could finally see my problem more clearly with more awareness and I don't feel so alone anymore. Thank you very much.
Thank you so much for saying all this! Zootopia is one of my favorite movies ever and it honestly feels like a lot of people forgot how great this movie is.
Dude oh my god this video is so good WHAT. This is a great analysis of the film!! ❤ I think you made a really good point saying this film’s groups don’t have one true real life equivalent, and that’s a major oversight people often give it (me included lol.) I often find myself dismissing the quality of a movie for having major flaws, (for this one the whole copaganda thing) but I REALLY like this take on it. Fundamentally imperfect films can still have valuable teaching moments and nuances that succeed
It's really interesting to hear different opinions on this movie, especially since it's up for interpretation and there isn't really a correct reading or view on it. It really just depends on how you consume media in general or on your background and experiences as a person. I think the problem around the discourse of this movie is that (from what I've seen) people aren't really open to hearing others perspectives on it. Obviously, it can be hard if you have some sort of emotional connection to it (myself included), but in my opinion, that's what the movie actually encourages you to do. I don't think it's trying to be a full-on statement of anything in particular, just a reminder that prejudice exists in many different forms, and if we give each other a chance to try to learn, we might all understand one another better. Anyway, this is a bit of a ramble, but I wanted to say that I really enjoyed the video; it's easily my favorite ever done on this movie.
Wait, did you just point out that preducieism can happen ON BOTH SIDE!!!! ...my respect for you increased by at least 1/2 a point, it would have been more, but you're a furry reviewing a furry movie...........
It must be nice to research and see the racial undertones when it's mostly daily life to me... 😕 They don't have the balls to explore police brutality😒
Just a bit of things I want to elaborate on that didn't end up in the final cut:
In my first draft of the segment, I wrote I drew a few parallels between this movie and Hamilton mainly with how the change in the political climate resulted in a lot of re-examining of both pieces of media despite receiving near universal positive acclaim when they came out. Zootopia is inarguably the most overtly political movie that either of the two animation studios under the Disney umbrella and I think that's part of the reason why it made the amount of money that it did. It was something that general audience members had seen or expected from them before, similarly to what Hamilton was for musical theatre.
I think that the issues a lot of people have with discussions surrounding this movie though is how some (but definitely not all) of its defenders try to say that analysis of its subtext and messaging don't matter because of the target audience, and its popularity only adds to that. A lot of this stems from an insecurity that people who come from marginalized communities having criticisms with the way they're identities and struggles are depicted in media is automatically a condemnation for anyone who says something remotely positive about it. I definitely can't speak on behalf of everyone, but I think it all ties back to what can be gained from the media in question. I personally think it's okay to enjoy stuff that's has some political blind spots or insensitivities (as long as you LISTEN to people who do consider it to be problematic).
Your video perfectly highlights how disingenuous it is to say that it's portrayal of these issues being flawed doesn't automatically negate the value of what the movie has to offer on its own merits and in a larger social context, especially for again...the target audience.
I also figured here would be a good place to give a condensed explanation of what I was talking about when I criticized the cop plotline. "Copoganda" is a word that I think gets misused frequently (i.e. a fictional cop character isn't depicted as the embodiment of all evil means the media in question is endorsing/ignoring the racism that the police as an institution often perpetuate in a way that often goes unchallenged). My issue with how it's depicted here is how it plays into Judy's arc. Her acknowledgment that she (and arguably the rest of the ZPD) being a contributing factor in making life more difficult for predators like Nick and choosing to step down as a result is a very mature direction to take her character that's almost radical for Disney. So that's why both of them going back in the end rather than just being independent detectives, Nick especially, kind of rubs me the wrong way with each rewatch. If this video existed as a solo project on my end I probably could elaborate, but I didn't want to disrupt the pacing with how much I have to say about this.
Overall, I'd say this is a pretty strong analysis. Thank you so much for having me on and also reminding me about the existence of Bright (2018).
Them being independent detectives would’ve been awesome omg 😮
"A lot of this stems from an insecurity that people who come from marginalized communities having criticisms with the way they're communities having criticisms with the way they're identities and struggles are depicted in media is automatically a condemnation for anyone who says something remotely positive about it"????? What do you mean with that?? Sorry if I didn't understand that very well. Sorry. What do you mean with what you said?
THIS is the greatness Disney is capable of. Judy's growth and Nick's depth (actually showing us why he is the way he is rather than just talking about it like a lot of sympathetic thieves who try to come off more charming/cool than they actually end up being) really made them an amazing duo. I do think this is a rare case where a twist villain was necessary for Disney, but I regret not seeing what happened to Bellweather to make her see things in a skewed way.
7:29 Irrelephant
Oh, my god... ...thank you.
This one of the best takes on Zootopia's messages and themes that I have ever seen.
A comment for the algorithm!
Very happy to see a new upload, and also a very very pleasant surprise to see you tackling such a deep topic in such an excellent way - Thank you. It is awesome to see you investigate these themes, instead of engaging in a surface-level "Oh look. Anyways..."
It is very refreshing, thank you for your delightful input c:
Ah damn i wasn't a collab between you two! Neat 🐐🐐
Ah there were some points i hadn't thought about like with the shock collar. I also had some similar ideas on how this movie isn't actually accidentally racist as well. People forget the drugs are just drugs. They don't open up a hidden side of the brain that make them go back to their true nature or something like that. I feel like the opening stage play is exaggerated. It shows casual racism like "the world was bad but now we're all friends :)"
First off, I'd like to say I really appreciate how respectful this speech in this video is. It actually makes people wanna engage with it even if I disagree with quite a bit instead of just write it off like some others that aren't relevant to talk about here.
I think fundamentally Zootopia is already at such a disadvantage because it's playing hard into the animal aspects of herbivores vs carnivores (us vs them,) but one side has justification for their hatred as the carnivores are biologically created to eat meat or prey on herbivores. Yes, I personally see how there's different cultures, races, ethnicities that can be seen if you factor in the breed of animal aspect, but the loud outcry and the thing that is most reminiscent to familiar hate from humanity is the Herbivore vs Carnivore climax I feel. It's also hard to talk about such strong divisive issues with cops being shown in a good light as minorities in America (more specifically people of my kind) have VERY VALID justifications to hating police and wanting reform as we were forced into an unfair system that doesn't benefit us at all and has actively worked against us. I also wanna say I don't feel powerful topics like racism should be "watered down" for the aspect of a kids movie. Racism is really brutual and it just needs to be strong if you're gonna implement it imo. It can of course have the more subtle side of racism, but Zootopia doesn't do the strong parts of racism it does have very well in my opinion. Just do an easy comparison there's an episode of Static Shock that showcases racism in it's purest form and I think it's a good example of how it can be done well for children's media.
I heard you state "just because a movie about prejudice doesn't correlate with American racial politics, doesn't make it irrelevant." That must be a common talking point if you're bringing it up, and I agree. It's just easier for people to use what they've experienced to speak for themselves and the environment Zootopia is in is sorta a "fill in the blank" place, so it makes sense to fill in that space with a place you're familiar with imo.
Lastly, I wanna talk about why I dislike Judy. Her drive is endearing alongside her humble beginnings. She doesn't reallu become trash until Nick gets involved. She's what I personally hate about some individuals in the sense she's tryna to CHANGE Nick to meet HER ideals of good. She uses Nick for her own gain and I'm apparently supposed to care about her growth?? If she actually grew and started to understand Nick besides the "i feel sorry for you," I'd personally have more respect. She doesn't really care about why Nick's choices were made and how they were justified, she just wants him to become her type of good and ends up enlisting him in the police force lmao. She destroys SO MUCH of society with her speech of saying "carnivores are bad and it's in their nature" and she faces 0 REPRECUSSIONS FROM IT. Not that it'd matter because the damage is already done, but she actually gets rewarded for it as nobody acknowledges it and she stays in power. It's just wild to me. One thing I live by is "even good people are great at making bad decisions," but Judy irritates me in a way I can't fully express.
I don't wanna make it seem like I'm tryna say you're wrong for feeling however you want about this media, it's meant to be interpreted! I enjoy perspectives as long as they're not dangerous. I just wanted to explain my viewpoint as a black person tbh.
Something I found interesting about the film is how it plays with stereotypes about animals that vary from accurate to inaccurate. How stereotypes are either based on facts or false assumptions that can either undermine or have unrealistic expectations about someone.
Like how Sloths being naturally slow is a stereotype proven right or how the Yak assumes the Elephant has a better memory than him which caused him to undermine himself and keeps giving her unearned praise.
"Carnivores are only 10% of the population, yet..."
woah woah woah, Daniel, hoooolllld up
Watching this video after completing Metaphor Re:Fantazio is definitely interesting, as I almost consider them two sides of the prejudice coin. Zootopia brilliantly shows us the insidious “blind spots of the enlightened,” as you put it, and Metaphor doesn’t often touch on that (instead focusing more directly on characters with more blatant class/racial biases), but what Metaphor does is it takes the next step. The game asks, “things are like this and that’s bad. What can we do?” That’s the game- a struggle over the very nature of idealism and optimism. The characters are inspired by a fictional novel depicting a world of no magic, democratic systems, and one tribe- a clear analogue for our world, but a wholly sanitized one. As your new allies read passages from the book and learn about this dream of a utopian future, they keep poking holes in it. They keep saying “that wouldn’t actually help, that would just spark more problems, I’m not sure anyone would accept this,” etc. The concept of imagining a world where “anyone can be anything” is systematically broken down- and yet still supported at the end. As we learn more about characters with warped ideals, crushed dreams, those who started on the right path and lost their way, the idea of believing that things can be better in society is both accepted as an impossible dream and held up as one we should be chasing all the same.
The only thing that separates the protagonist and his party from those who’ve lost their way is… effectively, their scope; their goal is never something so big that it crushes itself as they morally slip to achieve it, they always just want to rescue the prince. That’s it. It’s a simple and selfless goal, not some high-minded ideal that could lead them astray in any direction. All they do is in service of immediate dangers, clear evils threatening the populace at that moment. In presenting the party this way, game posits that the way to keep striving towards that fictional ideal is to keep putting one foot in front of the other, making sure in every moment you’re doing so for the right reason.
So perhaps, that’s where Zootopia and Metaphor meet: right at the end, where we all just need to put that foot forward. Is it too nice, too foolish to imagine that that many people will be taking that step alongside us? Perhaps…
But that’s never been a good reason to stop doing the right thing.
So, in conclusion, what needs to be examined in society and in the media is also prejudice, in its passive and hidden nature, in all possible forms and that good people can also be prejudiced in some things, right? Anyway, thank you for this analysis, because, at the time, I felt alone, because I discovered that I still had prejudices about some types of people even though I didn't have any horribly bad intentions towards those people. Now, with your analysis, I could finally see my problem more clearly with more awareness and I don't feel so alone anymore. Thank you very much.
Thank you so much for saying all this! Zootopia is one of my favorite movies ever and it honestly feels like a lot of people forgot how great this movie is.
Dude oh my god this video is so good WHAT. This is a great analysis of the film!! ❤
I think you made a really good point saying this film’s groups don’t have one true real life equivalent, and that’s a major oversight people often give it (me included lol.)
I often find myself dismissing the quality of a movie for having major flaws, (for this one the whole copaganda thing) but I REALLY like this take on it. Fundamentally imperfect films can still have valuable teaching moments and nuances that succeed
It's really interesting to hear different opinions on this movie, especially since it's up for interpretation and there isn't really a correct reading or view on it. It really just depends on how you consume media in general or on your background and experiences as a person. I think the problem around the discourse of this movie is that (from what I've seen) people aren't really open to hearing others perspectives on it. Obviously, it can be hard if you have some sort of emotional connection to it (myself included), but in my opinion, that's what the movie actually encourages you to do. I don't think it's trying to be a full-on statement of anything in particular, just a reminder that prejudice exists in many different forms, and if we give each other a chance to try to learn, we might all understand one another better. Anyway, this is a bit of a ramble, but I wanted to say that I really enjoyed the video; it's easily my favorite ever done on this movie.
I interpreted the movie as an allegory to how the Iranian-Contra Affair
Goated video 🐐
Wait, did you just point out that preducieism can happen ON BOTH SIDE!!!!
...my respect for you increased by at least 1/2 a point, it would have been more, but you're a furry reviewing a furry movie...........
It must be nice to research and see the racial undertones when it's mostly daily life to me... 😕 They don't have the balls to explore police brutality😒