Loved this episode. SO much quality info, but thank God you provided a link to Carter's recommendations. My brain broke trying to remember everything you covered.
One of my favorite episodes yet. I find skincare so overwhelming. There is so much noise out there and it’s so difficult to know what is best without breaking the bank or overdoing it with too much product and/or the next new shiny treatment that pops up on the market. I really appreciate you bringing experts onto the show Simon. I am now an instant Carter fan and look forward to following along!
Carter seems to be a rising star in dermatology; would have love to seen him paired with an established dermatology/skin expert as this would align with your other episodes as far as level of expertise in the guests you typically host.
As with your podcasts, I enjoyed listening to this. As an eczema sufferer, I would really appreciate an episode dedicated to skin conditions/ inflammation & steriod use etc.
@@guymooremusic this is something we had planned for this episode but i had to leave early to fly back to my lab in stl because there was a problem with one of my experiments. hopefully Simon has me back on again though!
I actually listened to the podcast first and had to check the video out! I decided to start slugging immediately especially after I saw Carter. He’s 33 and looks like he’s a teenager wow!!
At 65 I have used only drug store skin care products. I love Vanicream, CeraVe and ELF. Recently, I started using the NIRA device and I have to say it have improved my wrinkles around my eyes. Thanks for the video. Very informative. ❤
@@skippy6462you need to go check Cassandra bankson out. She's a esthetician and a vegan and only recommends CF products. She also uses NIRA devices along with several others.. she's a sweetheart btw. A nice Cera ve dupe would ceramedx.. it's thick and healing (infact better than cerave) .. If you want more recommendations, do let me know..
What a fun and informative conversation, less sciency but still high level information. In the follow-up, please talk about skin oils. Loads of companies market them as „purer“ options for hydration. There’re bends and pure oils.
i recommend showering daily with warm (not hot) water. using a gentle, fragrance-free body wash or bar soap on your pits and groin. i use derma harmony salicylic acid bar soap. it’s not strictly necessary for skin health to shower every day, but it is good decorum. i am releasing a video soon about products you can wash with that decrease body odor as an alternative to deodorant, or in addition to deodorant.
@@MrCashy84 Yes, I take collagen myself and recommend it for others. I rec 10g+ per day, so scoops of powder, as opposed to pills which typically contain only small amounts of collagen.
Listened on Spotify but hopped on here to comment. A different discussion to the usual nutrition topics. Very informative and I liked how the emphasis was on ageing gracefully with healthy skin as opposed to trying to retain a perennial youthful look. For me animal testing is also very important when choosing skin care and sunscreen products and it isn’t always easy to find accurate information on a lot of products. As an aside one of your ads mentions ‘forward slash the proop’ so definitely needs a re-record 😀 Tawny was a great addition to the podcast and hopefully you can incorporate her into future episodes.
@@TheProofWithSimonHill definitely sounded like proop the first mention, then proof the second time you mention it but listening without headphones the second time it sounded fine so just ignore me 🤣
Such an informative podcast! And truly Carter you have beautiful skin, can't wait to try eviba slug. A quick question about acne, would you recommend using both tretinoin and adaplene , perhaps on alternate days?
Thank you! I generally wouldn't recommend using adapalene and tretinoin as i think you can get better results with less irritation by combining actives with different mechanisms of action. You likely won't get additional benefit from alternating. A retinoid with BP, or a retinoid with azelaic acid. BP is an oxidizer though so you can't use it at the same time as tretinoin, have to stagger morning/night, adapalne and BP are compatible.
Re microdosing oral isotretinoin: what's the usual dose and frequency? I know everybody has different needs but is there a minimum effective dose for anti-aging and overall skin health?
I like micellar water for cleaning off waterproof sunscreen or makeup. Micellar water is basically a cleanser but uses sufactants that are gentler and in low concentration. I prefer using a less greasy sunscreen that comes off with water for daily wear though.
@ I appreciate your reply and intend to try your recommended sunscreens once I use up the zinc ones I have here. Hoping the Korean sunscreens do block all rays in the way zinc does and that titanium dioxide and all the other us chemical ones do not.
Haha i don't particularly enjoy the feeling of slugging either, but the effects are worth it. Avoiding the sun is an option but UV damage is cumulative, short incidental exposures over a long time can still cause premature aging.
How many of the products mentioned have known cancer causing ingredients? Its concerning. Thoughts about rose hip oil, castor oil, other essential oils?
Hey Cindy! I plan to make a video about this topic! But in breif and general terms none of these products are likely to cause cancer. What is cancer-causing is a surprisingly slippery question involving the politics of what is even tested in the first place and why--expensive testing less likely to be done on 'natural' substances, misunderstandings about the carcinogen classification system, what dose would be carcinogenic--the most simple example is hot liquids. Drinking piping hot coffee, tea, or yerba mate is a risk factor for esophageal cancer, but a lower dose of heat (warm liquids) do not cause tissue damage and are not a risk factor for cancer. Dose matters. Slugging with castor oil is definitely an option and many people tolerate it well and get good results, but it's also a common allergen that can cause contact dermatitis, chelitis, etc in many people (onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/pdf/10.1111/cod.14403). Allergies to natural substances can develop over time also. Same with rose hip oil. And essential oils are highly likely to cause adverse reactions including contact dermatits, sensitization, mucosal irritation, etc. and many essential oils contain potent endocrine disruptors, which is something I touched on in this video (www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa064725). I know it feels counterintuitive but speaking very broadly here 'chemical' substances are highly purifed, characterized, and studied. Whereas 'natural' substances are often less well studied, can contain hundreds or thousands of different natural chemicals, and many of these natural chemicals are harmful chemical weapons evolved for defensive purposes. Plants didn't evolve for us. These natural defensive chemicals can be medicinal in some contexts but commonly used natural substances can be irritating or harmful for a significant number of people, and the more unknowns you add to your product or routine the more likely you are to have a negative reaction. I use natural ingredients in my products too, it just so happens that when I am evaluating the safety, tolerability, and efficacy of ingredients the 'chemical' ones are often the obvious safer choice. Same with a lot of the products I recommend. Stay tuned for a full video on the subject for more info and indepth explaination on this!
Great episode. @evibacarter, can you speak to the appropriate order of products? I currently use Vit C and Niacinimide + spf in the morning and adapalene + your moisturizer/slug balm at night. Is that the correct way to split those up?
yes, this is a good routine. you use vitC serum before niacinamide. you should use two separate serums as ascorbic acid should be in a solution with a much lower pH than niacinamide. and in the evening slugging can increase the absorption of retinoids, which may become too strong, so proceed slowly. i rec using a thinner layer of adapalene at first and waiting a couple hours between adapalene and slugging. increase as tolerated.
@@evibacarterPerfect! Thank you so much. Just ordered Slug+. Can’t wait to try it. Question: Can you tell me what pH is best for Vit C? I make my own every few weeks (with Lab Muffin Beauty Science recipe). I’ve gradually worked my way from 5% to 20% LAA solution and typically aim for 3.5 pH. Does that sound okay?
@ yes, ascorbic acid has a pKa of 4.2, at pH 3.5 approx 83% of the AA will be protonated (uncharged). the skin prefers a pH of 4.5 to 5.5, so lowering the pH further may cause more irritation, 3.5 is a good sweet spot.
First, in the ad break for Creatine, was there a past episode confirming that taking it in diet would break the body/brain barrier? Second, I never thought two guys could deeply talk about skincare. Simon brought the science (and psychology) as always! Also never would have guessed Carter was 33 -- great simple/sensible explanations. I use aloe vera plant & oatmeal; a simple regime but could definitely try more, apart from giving up loads of daily Fiji or Vichy. (The red food bit was hilarious!) 👍
A lot of quality information for a relatively short ( for Simon at least) podcast. I've heard about Korean products whitening the skin just didn't know the ingredients are called tyrosinase inhibitors. One topic of interest for me that wasn't discussed here is radio lifting . A couple years back I was considering a procedure called Thermage to help with loose skin after significant weight loss( it's radio lifting on steroids) . They claim to work through the thermal breakdown of collagen fibers to force its reforming by the body. Can you clarify on it meaning does it really work?
yes, there is evidence for thermage. however microneedling, RF microneedling, or ablative laser treatments will likely be more effective for the time and money you put in. the benefit of thermage is that it is non invasive and has minimal downtime
I would’ve loved to have seen you ask Carter about the recent study on Tretinoin causing all cause mortality "Veterans Affairs Topical Tretinoin Chemoprevention (VATTC) Trial" its put a bit of a scare in everyone whose uses it. I would’ve loved to hear his thoughts on it? Also, I cant find carters sunscreen recommendations in the show notes?
this is a great question. the VATTC trial showed a difference in all cause mortality between the tret and control groups. however this trial was not designed with all cause mortality as an outcome. among other things there were demographic differences between the two groups that could explain some of the difference seen. the authors did not claim a causal relationship here, and it doesn’t stand up well to reason. i dont think the average person should be concerned about this, but the VATTC trial definitely suggested tretinoin isn’t a great option to prevent AKs or non-melanoma skin cancers given this hypothetical risk. however, if you are still concerned it may be another reason to choose adapalene as the systemic absorption is significantly lower than tretinoin.
@@evibacarter Thank you for your reply Carter. With that trial in mind, in your opinion do you think it’s safe to continue using Tretinoin for anti-aging reasons?
@@la973Yes, that trial was not designed to measure mortality, and was in a very particular population that doesn't represent most people. It also doesn't stand well to reason givin how poorly tretinoin is absorbed through the skin. Typically the amount absorbed is less than the natural endogenous level of retinoic acid in the body. Before accutane i felt very safe using tretinoin daily, and tretinoin is the most commonly prescribed anti-aging topical. But no skincare product is worth giving yourself anxiety over. If you find yourself worrying about this you can use adapalene or stick with other anti-aging modalities.
Unfortunately we are only shipping to the US at this time! Sorry for the inconvenience and stay tuned, we will add an international shipping option in the future!
See here: cartergottlieb.notion.site/Carter-Gottlieb-s-Recommendations-1343779dc04080a49058f933282e0f4d?pvs=4 I’ll have my team add to the TH-cam description too
So I don’t know the science behind it but I can attest to switching from a plant based diet to an animal based diet and the sunburn thing. The longer I was plant based the less time I was able to spend in the sun/heat without turning red. I didn’t eat a lot of seed oils but I ate some. So I don’t know if it was those or a lack of something else or an over abundance of certain foods, but when I went animal based my sensitivity to the sun/heat basically disappeared. I can’t explain why, I just know it happened to me. It may be from a histamine overload while I was plant based rather than seed oils, I don’t know. It just is a very weird thing that happened.
Interesting! As an alternate explaination, it could be that plant based diets are higher in anti-oxidants and carotenoids which are known to protect the skin from the sun.
as a 47 Brazilian woman, who loves being in the sun, and has been vegan for 14 years, I don't have this issue at all. I eat mostly whole-foods - a variety of them
Disinfo321, I like Cerave healing ointment for slugging. Many people use aquaphore ointment or vaseline. Don't know what these influencers recommend. My dermatologist recommended the Cerave for me.
@@Bree487 I've literally just seen that on Amazon, gonna buy it. I turn 27 in a few months and was debating retinol when i turn 27, but I might just buy a 0.2% retinol now and use it every other day
Another option for those with rosacea or other inflammation is "triple paste diaper rash ointment." It contains zinc oxide & oat kernel extract, which are anti-inflammatory.
Unfortunately because my skin is extremely sensitive and I break out so easily I can't do a lot of products, the weather starting to get cold and I can't even use cream moisturizers or I'll break out, even in the winter time I have to use gel moisturizers, I have so much damage to my skin discoloration scars pockmarks from years from years of suffering acne and torturing my skin trying to fix the problem, it's only recently that my skin has finally started to calm down but I still get acne easily if I even dare try and treat wrinkles, I hate it so much I feel like my own skin is mean to me and won't let me treat wrinkles because the only thing my skin allows me is light moisturizers How can you treat wrinkles hyperpigmentation texture if you're extremely acne prone and your skin doesn't allow you to use anything else???
i recommend oral skincare. carotenoid supplements, oral hyaluronic acid supplements, oral tranexamic acid (prescription, Musely offers it). and gratuitous use of non-irritating SPF like the korean ones i just mentioned. also vitamin C. While the ascorbic acid form of vitamin C can be irritating to those with sensitive skin you can try a THD ascorbate-based vitamin C. SLUG+ includes THD-ascorbate hope this helps!
Attractiveness & carotenoids - very interesting. A lot of cosmetics companies' foundations tend to lean yellow. I hear people complaining about it often. Maybe those companies know something the general public doesn't? 😊
New to me slugging I expected you to add, ‘ no animals harmed in this product’ because in my stone house in Aegean Turkey and going into the dark kitchen at night I stepped on a healthy large slug..and oh the squsshh of it!! Next day Emel came over and she stopped me short in the telling…”but Janan! why didn’t you put the jelly on your face!” I just slugged ! thanks the Proof, long listener your translating big Neuroscientists , excellent news to use!
About the whole, "we evolved to live in the sun" thing: ever see how dark it is in the forests where chimps live? Millions of years living in dappled shadows is not negated by a few hundred thousand (at most) living on the savannas.
Hominids have lived in savannas (among other environments) for millions of years, but light skin only evolved in the last few thousand years - as recently as 8000 years ago, most of Europe had a mix of dark and light skin types, and only in the far north, where light skin conveyed a benefit with regard to Vit D, were the majority of the population light-skinned by 7000 years ago. So the idea that humans have evolved for millions of years to be fully exposed to the sun only applies to those with dark skin - light skin was a specialized adaptation in far northern climates where sunlight was scarce.
@@SkyRiver1Evolutionarily, inuits have found a different solution the problem of vitamin D deficiency in northern climates. They consume relatively vitamin D rich foods like oily fish and organ meats, and also have evolved a mutated version of the vitamin D receptor with a higher affinity for vitmain D so lower vitamin D levels are less harmful for them. There was likely selective pressure against light skin because of how much time inuits spend outside hunting and travelling.
I think part of it, for people who don't know enough about science, might be to speak to them in terms of probabilities. That's really at the bottom of the "frustrating" language of science. Everyone has a concept of likelihoods, weighing pros/cons, gambling. Instead of being hesitant or equivocating, when speaking of evidence, that is. Hope that makes sense.
An informative conversation but, honestly, not my favorite episode. Are petrolatum products eco-friendly? They smell like petroleum to me. A deeper dive into personal care products that are specifically environmentally-friendly and vegan friendly would be of greater interest to me. thank you, Marian
Petrolatum is a naturally occuring, minimally processed substance that is a byproduct of petroleum production. I think it is valid to not want to support the fossil fuel industry, but on the other hand I believe if we are extracting oil we might as well make the most of it, use the petrolatum instead of it ending up as waste. If we are going to hunt, we should use the whole animal. Furthermore, petroluem is primarily the decomposed organic material from plankton. And not all petrolatum smells, highly purified petrolatum should have no odor or color. There are other occlusive substances that can work well as an alternative, but it turns out that objectively petrolatum is the most hypoallergenic and effective. I don't think everyone needs to use petrolatum if other alternatives work well for them, but I just want to share the facts so people that are inclined to use it know how great it can be for their skin. Thanks for your comment!
@@marianblum1064 You're welcome! some other occlusive substances that could be used in a slugging product are lanolin, beeswax, dimethicone, shea butter, castor oil, and many more! these all can work great for a lot of people, but a significant minority may experience allergic reactions or other adverse effects. You can also develop hypersensitivies over time, even if you weren't initially sensitive. But if you are not comfortable with petrolatum there are a lot of options to try!
I’ll look up Dr Dray. I really appreciate Carter’s approach to reviewing the literature and forming views. But I agree, could be nice to balance this convo out with someone with lots of clinical experience
haha well it’s hard because you don’t have another version of that person who didn’t use these products to compare them too, but in the research we can appreciate the difference. and i think you have seen people who look good for their age, and people who look bad for their age and products play a role in that edit: nothing wrong with makeup either!
![[LIVE] BABYMONSTER(베이비몬스터) - DRIP | 두시탈출 컬투쇼](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/UG05pxLGwzc/mqdefault.jpg)
Carter’s product recommendations here:
cartergottlieb.notion.site/Carter-Gottlieb-s-Recommendations-1343779dc04080a49058f933282e0f4d?pvs=4
@@TheProofWithSimonHill thanks simon! and if there is anything anyone would like me to add let me know!
Loved this episode. SO much quality info, but thank God you provided a link to Carter's recommendations. My brain broke trying to remember everything you covered.
Glad you enjoyed it mate
Simon put a link to the products i mentioned here in a pinned comment!
One of my favorite episodes yet. I find skincare so overwhelming. There is so much noise out there and it’s so difficult to know what is best without breaking the bank or overdoing it with too much product and/or the next new shiny treatment that pops up on the market. I really appreciate you bringing experts onto the show Simon. I am now an instant Carter fan and look forward to following along!
Carter seems to be a rising star in dermatology; would have love to seen him paired with an established dermatology/skin expert as this would align with your other episodes as far as level of expertise in the guests you typically host.
Great idea! I am planning to have some conversations with established experts in skincare on my channels so if you're interested stay tuned!
As with your podcasts, I enjoyed listening to this. As an eczema sufferer, I would really appreciate an episode dedicated to skin conditions/ inflammation & steriod use etc.
@@guymooremusic this is something we had planned for this episode but i had to leave early to fly back to my lab in stl because there was a problem with one of my experiments. hopefully Simon has me back on again though!
@ awesome! Thankyou for replying & look forward to hearing your wisdom on the topic!
@@evibacarterwe will do a round 2 soon!
I actually listened to the podcast first and had to check the video out! I decided to start slugging immediately especially after I saw Carter. He’s 33 and looks like he’s a teenager wow!!
Agree! He looks great. That’s what good sun protection and slugging can do (earlier you start the better).
Thank you so much!! Let me know if you have any questions!
At 65 I have used only drug store skin care products. I love Vanicream, CeraVe and ELF. Recently, I started using the NIRA device and I have to say it have improved my wrinkles around my eyes. Thanks for the video. Very informative. ❤
a good basic moisturizer is so under appreciated!
Would you happen to know if any are suitable for vegans?
@@skippy6462 yes, vanicream moisturizing cream is vegan. CereVe is not
@@skippy6462 ELF is vegan and cruelty free. And the most affordable. Love ELF ❤
@@skippy6462you need to go check Cassandra bankson out. She's a esthetician and a vegan and only recommends CF products.
She also uses NIRA devices along with several others.. she's a sweetheart btw.
A nice Cera ve dupe would ceramedx.. it's thick and healing (infact better than cerave) ..
If you want more recommendations, do let me know..
I have been slugging with SLUG+ since I watched Carter's tiktok on it and now my skin looks and feels better.
Thank you for trying SLUG+!!! glad you are happy with it!
Great episode!! What is the acne product Tawny mentioned that changed her life? 🙂
Spironolactone. It’s a prescription med
@@TheProofWithSimonHill 🙌🏽 yup
I’ve always called them “smile lines”. I’ve had them a lot of my life as well. And probably because I smile a lot 😊
nothing wrong with smile lines! healthy, glowing skin can still have lines
Yup! Me too babes ❤
very good episode. glad you covered cancer. any patch or lesion that won't go away should be looked at imo.
facts!
Great discussion, could you also please ask if red light therapy is beneficial for the skin? Thank you
We discussed this briefly. Can go into more detail next time
What a fun and informative conversation, less sciency but still high level information. In the follow-up, please talk about skin oils. Loads of companies market them as „purer“ options for hydration. There’re bends and pure oils.
Thank you for the talk. What about showering? How often should you do it and what product, if any, should you use when cleaning the whole body?
i recommend showering daily with warm (not hot) water. using a gentle, fragrance-free body wash or bar soap on your pits and groin. i use derma harmony salicylic acid bar soap. it’s not strictly necessary for skin health to shower every day, but it is good decorum. i am releasing a video soon about products you can wash with that decrease body odor as an alternative to deodorant, or in addition to deodorant.
@ thanks Carter. Also my wife would like to know if supplementing orally with collagen protein is an effective treatment for healthy skin?
@@MrCashy84 Yes, I take collagen myself and recommend it for others. I rec 10g+ per day, so scoops of powder, as opposed to pills which typically contain only small amounts of collagen.
Listened on Spotify but hopped on here to comment. A different discussion to the usual nutrition topics. Very informative and I liked how the emphasis was on ageing gracefully with healthy skin as opposed to trying to retain a perennial youthful look. For me animal testing is also very important when choosing skin care and sunscreen products and it isn’t always easy to find accurate information on a lot of products.
As an aside one of your ads mentions ‘forward slash the proop’ so definitely needs a re-record 😀
Tawny was a great addition to the podcast and hopefully you can incorporate her into future episodes.
Was that a typo? Or I sounded like I said proop?
@@TheProofWithSimonHill definitely sounded like proop the first mention, then proof the second time you mention it but listening without headphones the second time it sounded fine so just ignore me 🤣
Such an informative podcast! And truly Carter you have beautiful skin, can't wait to try eviba slug. A quick question about acne, would you recommend using both tretinoin and adaplene , perhaps on alternate days?
Thank you!
I generally wouldn't recommend using adapalene and tretinoin as i think you can get better results with less irritation by combining actives with different mechanisms of action. You likely won't get additional benefit from alternating. A retinoid with BP, or a retinoid with azelaic acid. BP is an oxidizer though so you can't use it at the same time as tretinoin, have to stagger morning/night, adapalne and BP are compatible.
@ Makes perfect sense! Thanks for sharing such a thorough answer. Super helpful! ☺️
Re microdosing oral isotretinoin: what's the usual dose and frequency? I know everybody has different needs but is there a minimum effective dose for anti-aging and overall skin health?
What does Carter think of micellar water for cleansing? My zinc sunscreen would never come off with water only.
I like micellar water for cleaning off waterproof sunscreen or makeup. Micellar water is basically a cleanser but uses sufactants that are gentler and in low concentration. I prefer using a less greasy sunscreen that comes off with water for daily wear though.
@ I appreciate your reply and intend to try your recommended sunscreens once I use up the zinc ones I have here. Hoping the Korean sunscreens do block all rays in the way zinc does and that titanium dioxide and all the other us chemical ones do not.
@@sarahs790 Yes, modern organic (chemical) filters are very broad specturm and absorb both UVB and UVA rays well just as effectively as zinc/Ti!
Slugging sounds intriguing! I hate a whole bunch of goop on my face, but I’ll look into it. The sun stressed me out - seems simpler to avoid it.
Haha i don't particularly enjoy the feeling of slugging either, but the effects are worth it. Avoiding the sun is an option but UV damage is cumulative, short incidental exposures over a long time can still cause premature aging.
Hi, I dont see the Koren brands for sunscreens you promised to tinclude in show notes. ???THanks
the pinned comment contain a link to my product recs!
Yep see my pinned comment! Also has a link to Slug+
How many of the products mentioned have known cancer causing ingredients? Its concerning. Thoughts about rose hip oil, castor oil, other essential oils?
Hey Cindy! I plan to make a video about this topic! But in breif and general terms none of these products are likely to cause cancer. What is cancer-causing is a surprisingly slippery question involving the politics of what is even tested in the first place and why--expensive testing less likely to be done on 'natural' substances, misunderstandings about the carcinogen classification system, what dose would be carcinogenic--the most simple example is hot liquids. Drinking piping hot coffee, tea, or yerba mate is a risk factor for esophageal cancer, but a lower dose of heat (warm liquids) do not cause tissue damage and are not a risk factor for cancer. Dose matters.
Slugging with castor oil is definitely an option and many people tolerate it well and get good results, but it's also a common allergen that can cause contact dermatitis, chelitis, etc in many people (onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/pdf/10.1111/cod.14403). Allergies to natural substances can develop over time also. Same with rose hip oil. And essential oils are highly likely to cause adverse reactions including contact dermatits, sensitization, mucosal irritation, etc. and many essential oils contain potent endocrine disruptors, which is something I touched on in this video (www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa064725).
I know it feels counterintuitive but speaking very broadly here 'chemical' substances are highly purifed, characterized, and studied. Whereas 'natural' substances are often less well studied, can contain hundreds or thousands of different natural chemicals, and many of these natural chemicals are harmful chemical weapons evolved for defensive purposes. Plants didn't evolve for us. These natural defensive chemicals can be medicinal in some contexts but commonly used natural substances can be irritating or harmful for a significant number of people, and the more unknowns you add to your product or routine the more likely you are to have a negative reaction.
I use natural ingredients in my products too, it just so happens that when I am evaluating the safety, tolerability, and efficacy of ingredients the 'chemical' ones are often the obvious safer choice. Same with a lot of the products I recommend.
Stay tuned for a full video on the subject for more info and indepth explaination on this!
Great episode. @evibacarter, can you speak to the appropriate order of products? I currently use Vit C and Niacinimide + spf in the morning and adapalene + your moisturizer/slug balm at night. Is that the correct way to split those up?
yes, this is a good routine.
you use vitC serum before niacinamide. you should use two separate serums as ascorbic acid should be in a solution with a much lower pH than niacinamide.
and in the evening slugging can increase the absorption of retinoids, which may become too strong, so proceed slowly. i rec using a thinner layer of adapalene at first and waiting a couple hours between adapalene and slugging. increase as tolerated.
@@evibacarterPerfect! Thank you so much. Just ordered Slug+. Can’t wait to try it.
Question: Can you tell me what pH is best for Vit C? I make my own every few weeks (with Lab Muffin Beauty Science recipe). I’ve gradually worked my way from 5% to 20% LAA solution and typically aim for 3.5 pH. Does that sound okay?
@ yes, ascorbic acid has a pKa of 4.2, at pH 3.5 approx 83% of the AA will be protonated (uncharged). the skin prefers a pH of 4.5 to 5.5, so lowering the pH further may cause more irritation, 3.5 is a good sweet spot.
@evibacarter- Thank you SO much!!
First, in the ad break for Creatine, was there a past episode confirming that taking it in diet would break the body/brain barrier? Second, I never thought two guys could deeply talk about skincare. Simon brought the science (and psychology) as always! Also never would have guessed Carter was 33 -- great simple/sensible explanations. I use aloe vera plant & oatmeal; a simple regime but could definitely try more, apart from giving up loads of daily Fiji or Vichy. (The red food bit was hilarious!) 👍
i want to live in a world where more guys talk about skincare!
@@evibacarter 😅 yeah!
A lot of quality information for a relatively short ( for Simon at least) podcast. I've heard about Korean products whitening the skin just didn't know the ingredients are called tyrosinase inhibitors. One topic of interest for me that wasn't discussed here is radio lifting . A couple years back I was considering a procedure called Thermage to help with loose skin after significant weight loss( it's radio lifting on steroids) . They claim to work through the thermal breakdown of collagen fibers to force its reforming by the body. Can you clarify on it meaning does it really work?
yes, there is evidence for thermage. however microneedling, RF microneedling, or ablative laser treatments will likely be more effective for the time and money you put in. the benefit of thermage is that it is non invasive and has minimal downtime
@@evibacarter Thank you for clarifying.
Thanks for this video. Must listen !Great insights on supplements and skin health
You’re welcome
I would’ve loved to have seen you ask Carter about the recent study on Tretinoin causing all cause mortality "Veterans Affairs Topical Tretinoin Chemoprevention (VATTC) Trial" its put a bit of a scare in everyone whose uses it. I would’ve loved to hear his thoughts on it? Also, I cant find carters sunscreen recommendations in the show notes?
this is a great question. the VATTC trial showed a difference in all cause mortality between the tret and control groups. however this trial was not designed with all cause mortality as an outcome. among other things there were demographic differences between the two groups that could explain some of the difference seen. the authors did not claim a causal relationship here, and it doesn’t stand up well to reason. i dont think the average person should be concerned about this, but the VATTC trial definitely suggested tretinoin isn’t a great option to prevent AKs or non-melanoma skin cancers given this hypothetical risk.
however, if you are still concerned it may be another reason to choose adapalene as the systemic absorption is significantly lower than tretinoin.
i sent my recs page to Simon i’ll ask him about it!
@@evibacarter Thank you for your reply Carter. With that trial in mind, in your opinion do you think it’s safe to continue using Tretinoin for anti-aging reasons?
@@la973Yes, that trial was not designed to measure mortality, and was in a very particular population that doesn't represent most people. It also doesn't stand well to reason givin how poorly tretinoin is absorbed through the skin. Typically the amount absorbed is less than the natural endogenous level of retinoic acid in the body. Before accutane i felt very safe using tretinoin daily, and tretinoin is the most commonly prescribed anti-aging topical. But no skincare product is worth giving yourself anxiety over. If you find yourself worrying about this you can use adapalene or stick with other anti-aging modalities.
Does Eviba ship international?
Unfortunately we are only shipping to the US at this time! Sorry for the inconvenience and stay tuned, we will add an international shipping option in the future!
Love this topic, awesome convo!
Glad to hear that!
Why are there no links to the data for what he is saying? His web page has no links either ... ????
See here:
cartergottlieb.notion.site/Carter-Gottlieb-s-Recommendations-1343779dc04080a49058f933282e0f4d?pvs=4
I’ll have my team add to the TH-cam description too
this was more of a chat but i’ll add some references for what i’m saying. which claim are you interested in?
So I don’t know the science behind it but I can attest to switching from a plant based diet to an animal based diet and the sunburn thing. The longer I was plant based the less time I was able to spend in the sun/heat without turning red. I didn’t eat a lot of seed oils but I ate some. So I don’t know if it was those or a lack of something else or an over abundance of certain foods, but when I went animal based my sensitivity to the sun/heat basically disappeared. I can’t explain why, I just know it happened to me. It may be from a histamine overload while I was plant based rather than seed oils, I don’t know. It just is a very weird thing that happened.
Maybe zinc deficient?
Interesting
Interesting! As an alternate explaination, it could be that plant based diets are higher in anti-oxidants and carotenoids which are known to protect the skin from the sun.
as a 47 Brazilian woman, who loves being in the sun, and has been vegan for 14 years, I don't have this issue at all. I eat mostly whole-foods - a variety of them
Weird. As Carter says Caratanoids in plant foods have a mild sun protective effect. So perhaps you weren't eating the healthiest plant foods.
What about the effectiveness of oral hyaluronic acid supplementation?
there is some evidence for oral hyaluronic acid. it is safe and relatively inexpensive so i take it myself!
Thanks! @@evibacarter
Great talk, thank you😊
You are so welcome!
Tried looking everywhere for a "slugging occlusive" face product, can't find.
Disinfo321, I like Cerave healing ointment for slugging. Many people use aquaphore ointment or vaseline. Don't know what these influencers recommend. My dermatologist recommended the Cerave for me.
@@Bree487 I've literally just seen that on Amazon, gonna buy it. I turn 27 in a few months and was debating retinol when i turn 27, but I might just buy a 0.2% retinol now and use it every other day
Cerave healing ointment is the best!
What we use: www.eviba.com/products/slug
Another option for those with rosacea or other inflammation is "triple paste diaper rash ointment." It contains zinc oxide & oat kernel extract, which are anti-inflammatory.
Unfortunately because my skin is extremely sensitive and I break out so easily I can't do a lot of products, the weather starting to get cold and I can't even use cream moisturizers or I'll break out, even in the winter time I have to use gel moisturizers, I have so much damage to my skin discoloration scars pockmarks from years from years of suffering acne and torturing my skin trying to fix the problem, it's only recently that my skin has finally started to calm down but I still get acne easily if I even dare try and treat wrinkles, I hate it so much I feel like my own skin is mean to me and won't let me treat wrinkles because the only thing my skin allows me is light moisturizers
How can you treat wrinkles hyperpigmentation texture if you're extremely acne prone and your skin doesn't allow you to use anything else???
i recommend oral skincare. carotenoid supplements, oral hyaluronic acid supplements, oral tranexamic acid (prescription, Musely offers it). and gratuitous use of non-irritating SPF like the korean ones i just mentioned.
also vitamin C. While the ascorbic acid form of vitamin C can be irritating to those with sensitive skin you can try a THD ascorbate-based vitamin C. SLUG+ includes THD-ascorbate
hope this helps!
Attractiveness & carotenoids - very interesting. A lot of cosmetics companies' foundations tend to lean yellow. I hear people complaining about it often. Maybe those companies know something the general public doesn't? 😊
New to me slugging I expected you to add, ‘ no animals harmed in this product’ because in my stone house in Aegean Turkey and going into the dark kitchen at night I stepped on a healthy large slug..and oh the squsshh of it!! Next day Emel came over and she stopped me short in the telling…”but Janan! why didn’t you put the jelly on your face!” I just slugged ! thanks the Proof, long listener your translating big Neuroscientists , excellent news to use!
@@janansozen5277 not the forbidden Jelly Janan!!!
About the whole, "we evolved to live in the sun" thing: ever see how dark it is in the forests where chimps live? Millions of years living in dappled shadows is not negated by a few hundred thousand (at most) living on the savannas.
Hominids have lived in savannas (among other environments) for millions of years, but light skin only evolved in the last few thousand years - as recently as 8000 years ago, most of Europe had a mix of dark and light skin types, and only in the far north, where light skin conveyed a benefit with regard to Vit D, were the majority of the population light-skinned by 7000 years ago. So the idea that humans have evolved for millions of years to be fully exposed to the sun only applies to those with dark skin - light skin was a specialized adaptation in far northern climates where sunlight was scarce.
I wonder when the Inuits and Yupiks are going to turn white? My guess is never.
@@SkyRiver1Evolutionarily, inuits have found a different solution the problem of vitamin D deficiency in northern climates. They consume relatively vitamin D rich foods like oily fish and organ meats, and also have evolved a mutated version of the vitamin D receptor with a higher affinity for vitmain D so lower vitamin D levels are less harmful for them. There was likely selective pressure against light skin because of how much time inuits spend outside hunting and travelling.
I think part of it, for people who don't know enough about science, might be to speak to them in terms of probabilities. That's really at the bottom of the "frustrating" language of science. Everyone has a concept of likelihoods, weighing pros/cons, gambling. Instead of being hesitant or equivocating, when speaking of evidence, that is. Hope that makes sense.
An informative conversation but, honestly, not my favorite episode. Are petrolatum products eco-friendly? They smell like petroleum to me. A deeper dive into personal care products that are specifically environmentally-friendly and vegan friendly would be of greater interest to me. thank you, Marian
Petrolatum is a naturally occuring, minimally processed substance that is a byproduct of petroleum production. I think it is valid to not want to support the fossil fuel industry, but on the other hand I believe if we are extracting oil we might as well make the most of it, use the petrolatum instead of it ending up as waste. If we are going to hunt, we should use the whole animal. Furthermore, petroluem is primarily the decomposed organic material from plankton. And not all petrolatum smells, highly purified petrolatum should have no odor or color. There are other occlusive substances that can work well as an alternative, but it turns out that objectively petrolatum is the most hypoallergenic and effective. I don't think everyone needs to use petrolatum if other alternatives work well for them, but I just want to share the facts so people that are inclined to use it know how great it can be for their skin.
Thanks for your comment!
@@evibacarter thanks for your reply and the information. Which other ingredients are comparable occlusives though maybe not your faves?
@@marianblum1064 You're welcome! some other occlusive substances that could be used in a slugging product are lanolin, beeswax, dimethicone, shea butter, castor oil, and many more! these all can work great for a lot of people, but a significant minority may experience allergic reactions or other adverse effects. You can also develop hypersensitivies over time, even if you weren't initially sensitive. But if you are not comfortable with petrolatum there are a lot of options to try!
Amazing podcast but i think a podcast with an established expert would've been nicer . Someone like dr. Dray would've been a delight!
I’ll look up Dr Dray. I really appreciate Carter’s approach to reviewing the literature and forming views. But I agree, could be nice to balance this convo out with someone with lots of clinical experience
💚🌱
Woohoo 🎉
Hope you enjoy it
yay!
Is that Simon’s gf?
Yes
@ sheeesh she is fine!
Hahaha yup, that’s me 🤓🙃😂
I cannot even tell if or when ppl use these products or protocols to be honest. why don't chicks just wear make-up?
haha well it’s hard because you don’t have another version of that person who didn’t use these products to compare them too, but in the research we can appreciate the difference. and i think you have seen people who look good for their age, and people who look bad for their age and products play a role in that
edit: nothing wrong with makeup either!
@@evibacarter Thank you for the information. When you discussed accutane, what do you consider a low-dose?
@@thrillerkrill5777 low dose is generally considered 20mg or less. 20mg every other day is common and effective. i take 10mg/day
@@evibacarter because I don't think you defined it
My skin doesn't respond well to make up.