E80 - Rob Thomson Ejected After Beaking Mike Estabrook Over Stubbs Non-HBP Call During Bunt Stance
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 15 มิ.ย. 2024
- HP Umpire Mike Estabrook ejected Phillies manager Rob Thomson for arguing a hit-by-pitch no-call (ball only) during Garrett Stubbs at-bat. We discuss whether a batter's foot possibly being out of the batter's box affects this play or not. Report: www.closecallsports.com/2024/...
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Official Baseball Rules cited relative to the HBP batter's box question are OBR 5.04(b)(5), 5.05(a)(3), 5.05(b)(2), and 6.03(a)(1). - กีฬา
I love the DS9 & Odo reference. Well done! One of my favorite parts of that episode.
And the correct rule in the rulebook. Well done DS9
@@Stormsfury777what episode from Deep Space Nine was this from?
@@drewsummers7288 no clue.
I was just confused since I thought that was Dan Iassogna.
@@drewsummers7288Take Me Out To The Holosuite
As somebody who watched this game, here’s a little context-Thomsons initial argument was that the initial call was hit by pitch before Hyde came out to speak with Estabrook. Thomson was claiming that the Orioles should have to challenge the call, not the Phillies. However, Estabrook had a wide strike zone all day for the orioles pitcher (Burnes). Really wide, many strikes called 2-3 inches outside. So most likely, the argument quickly turned to that
The MLB channel for this game said Thomson was ejected for arguing balls and strikes.
Agreed. Covered in the post game interview of Thompson. Not arguing balls and strikes.
This is 100 percent correct. Also for those pointing to the 96% correct..... take a look at just how FAR outside the K zone the missed calls were.
Now we can see why Estabrook was so fired up. Don't need JomBoy for that kind of lip-reading.
Another day another announcer using the term “interference” without knowing what it is as a baseball rule.
Duh.. it's 'interference'. That's the rule right? /s
NCAA softball umpire here. Partial foot on the line is good. Full foot out or touching any part of plate. Now we have a problem.
MLB rules you can have your foot both touching Home plate & the batters box & you’re okay… I take it NCAA you would be out?
That is not the NCAA softball rule. NCAA SB states that it is an illegally batted ball if ANY of the body is touching the ground outside the lines of the batters box. It is a delayed dead ball, and the defense has the choice of accepting the result of the play, or returning any runners to the bases occupied at the time of the pitch, and a strike is charged to the batter.
Thanks for the awesome explanation. The foot behind home plate had me wondering if that was legal. Love the DS9 reference...RIP Rene Auberjonois.
As a fellow umpire, I learn something new every time you upload a video. Your videos are amazing
It looked like the pitch didn't hit Stubbs's foot. So there's that.
I missed the game, but as a Phils fan, their manager, "Topper", is not a hothead. But it's been a long, tricky week for the team and I think he needed to vent.
Kudos to this site for clearly delineating the rules in question.
Do any announcers know some of the rules? I understand bias for your team but how many times you hear them be completely wrong about... everything lol
No they are freaking clueless. It's so sad
every team should host an announcers vs. manager rules competition
again where the MLB rules are the worst version of the rules. Toe should have to be on or inside the line :(
And I agree with the commentator at the end -- "enough of this nonsense"
You don't see Manager/Umpire Arguments like that anymore; there are exceptions though
I just dont get how such a screaming match comes from that. But really theres Laz the crew chief so not so suprising.
@@richblunt1309 Although, Laz Diaz was the only one of the three people involved that were calm.
Hi Lindsey - you usually do a good job of showing contentious plays earlier in the game to provide context on why players/managers are riled up when they confront the umpire.
In the first inning of this game, the first batter was Gunnar. Wheeler threw him strike three but ump missed it. Gunnar then homered a few pitches later.
I didn’t watch the whole game but I’m reading comments elsewhere that easterbrook had other missed calls. Will be interested to see the ump report card when it’s posted.
If you listen to Rob postgame, its clear he was mad with the way it was handled, not the call. Rob is not quick to anger by any stretch
@@bipbopboop4lifetrue. But hnc’s point is correct. Estabrook had many horrible calls in the orioles favor all day and I’m sure that was brought up early in the argument
@@HipsterDoofus100 I agree, this was just the straw that broke the camels back
+100 points to CCS for a DS9 and Odo reference
I love how little the commentators actually understand the rules. My dad isn't kidding when he said he could do that too. Just amazes me how they don't get the rules of the game they watch for a living
Watching that game, it seemed to me that Thompson was more upset about the strikezone, and that calling Stubbs back was just the straw that broke the camels back.
Estabrook only missed 6 calls, but it seemed like all of them went against Philly; Gunnar Henderson homered after he should've struck out to start the game, and in the 5th both Dahl and Stott struck out on pitches well off the plate to kill a rally that almost tied the game. It was also a hot day, and the Orioles had just broken the game open with 5 runs, so I get why Thompson was cranky.
Was a clip featuring Rene Auberjonois?? 😅
I cheered up dramatically seeing the DS9 scene with Odo and Sisko ^^
Interestingly, only a call stands.
Okay, now you *must* do a breakdown of the stupid "going into the dugout to tag out a Vulcan" from DS9. You brought in Odo, so this is on you. :)
Thank you for clearing this up . Great channel
A DS9 reference. Love it😊
New batting strategy: straddle home plate, make an effort to avoid getting hit by pitch, get hit anyway, first base.
If the ball is in the strike zone, it'll just be a painful strike.
As long as the ball is not in the strike zone and the batter is legally positioned it's not a bad strategy.
I think part of this is I'm not sure the ball actually hit him! I think it actually bounced in front of his foot.
Home plate umpire awarded the batter first base initially, then when asked by Orioles manager to consult with the crew, he did so and then waived him back.
Is that the proper protocol or once the call was made by Estabrook do the Orioles have to issue a formal challenge to have the call overturned?
This looks like a pain in the ass to deal with for Estabrook, I can see why he got hot😂 Both benches telling you what to do on a real close call, grown man yelling 2 inches in front of you, said grown man wont leave, said grown man beaks you, said grown man wont leave once again, after being ejected
I dont understand some of these conferences. It is tough to tell on zoomed in video (which is why we have call stands) and they can say from over 100 ft away it def. didnt hit him?
Jim Palmer and MASN Orioles announcers have no idea what they are doing. Almost every week Palmer stupidly says "eveyone knows tie goes to the runner".
I find it interesting that rule 6.04(a) used to be rule 4.06(a) in 1998, when "Take Me Out to the Holosuite" aired
BASEBALL AND STAR TREK COLLIDING AND MY HEART IS MELTING
Nice Odo!
Ejection of the week imo
Adley is A+ at framing pitches.
This was clearly a ball and over the plate. I find it interesting that with the foot on the line, if it hit him he would have gotten 1B. What if the ball were in the strike zone? Would he still get 1B after the ball hit him? I'm guessing not, but not the way this was explained.
The ejection is warranted. This is still the worst umpiring crew in MLB.
Laz Diaz is more sensitive than a cracked tooth with an exposed nerve.
No attempt to avoid it.
I'm not sure that you can't successfully argue that the batter made no attempt to avoid the pitch.
This confused me too. She mentioned having to attempt to get out of the way a couple times. But the batter didn't move their foot at all. Doesn't that mean they didn't attempt to get out of the way?
He wasn’t mad about the call being changed he was more upset about Estabrooks strike zone and how it was super inconsistent costing the Phillies a couple runs offensively and defensively and he felt like that was his opportunity to vent and let it all out which I don’t blame him estabrooks strike zone was inconsistent all game long
He said it postgame that’s the only reason I know this
Estebrook had an excellent zone per umpire scorecard
Super inconsistent? He was 96% accurate for the night with only 6 missed pitches.
@@MicahSilversmith yes I understand that but the missed affected the Phillies big time couple called continued orioles innings a couple ended our rallies
@@teebob21 those 6 pitches were against the Phillies tho
Wasn’t the issue that Hyde convinced Estabrook to discuss with the umpires rather than use a challenge? Estabrook shouldn’t have let a manager control his game.
it was also fleet week in baltimore
Uncle Fester don't like Robbie? Dr. Evil was seen jawing, and wanted be called powder! It's all, so confusing!
"...and yes, that score is correct." What's THAT supposed to mean?!
This page has a bias against the Phillies. Thomson was completely justified in his argument. Baltimore should’ve had to use a challenge on that.
Maybe the writers of DS9 should become commentators of MLB games, can't do any worse.
suspend him
Nope. It wasn’t intentional.
They said Wheeler had a bad day. I disagree, wheelers day was fine because he got paid a lot to basically lose a game. Who had a bad day, the fans of the Phillies, also those that paid plenty to travel from Philadelphia to Baltimore, paid plenty for tickets, paid plenty for refreshments, parking, the list goes on. At 40 million a year???? Wheelers day was, as I said, just fine.
The HP umpire should have stuck to his original no call like he's supposed to. You're not supposed to call anything you didn't actually see. He clearly did not have a hit by pitch and was talked into making the call by the batter. That's what led to all the drama. If he just sticks to his no call and doesn't let the player push him to call something he didn't actually see then there's probably never any ejection and they probably don't even challenge.
If there's one thing that sets managers off more than anything else it's when the umpires huddle up and reverse a call.
HP umpire can absolutely call stuff they didn't see. That's the entire point of asking the other umpires. Look at check swings for example.
@@mskolnik2yea the first second or third base umpire sure had a better view on HBPs than the home plate ump
@@mskolnik2
That's you checking with another umpire and the other umpire making the call. It's not you calling something you didn't see.
If you're going to lie about getting hit by pitch at least sell it a little. Hop around, react to a 78 mph pitch getting you on the toe. And I don't think planting your foot in the path of the ball counts as getting out of the way of it.
That manager was one anrgy bird.
John Kruk, ... retired MLB player who played for YEARS ... has NO EFFING CLUE what he's talking about, ... EVER. You think the guy would get at least ONE RULE correct now and again .........NOPE!🙄
This ejection makes zero sense. Why is Rob so pissed? If he really believed the overturn was unjust, he could've (and did) challenge. It's not like the Phillies got screwed by an incorrect call. It was the correct call. Don't people want the umpires to get it right?
He was mad about more than that the strike zone all game long was inconsistent
@@Elijah-th9zjyep game was out of hand at that point so Topper was just looking for something to jump on the umpire for. Multiple calls against the phils this game to kill rallies and directly lead to runs for the Os.
Umpire was clueless about a consistent strike zone. Did Angel Hernandez share his “How to creatively call balls and strikes” manual with this crew?
Rob mentioned after the game that bc they originally gave Stubbs first base and the umpire mentioned to Rob that he can challenge but Rob countered that bc Stubbs was already on first base then make Baltimore use thier challenge bc HBP was the original call. The umpires were a disgrace in this series.
@@chrisbromley7214 I still don't see Rob's justification. The umpiring crew got together to get the call right, and they WERE right.
then thay did us one dirty rob defends his team big time
Beaked 😂😂😂😂
Stubbs, the Phillies batter in this incident, in a post game interview stated that the pitch did hit his foot. So I would have expected the call to be overturned if that’s true …
These blue caps the Umpires are wearing with a black shirt just look awful …
He did make contact with Estabrook. That’s not only an ejection. That’s definitely a suspension.
This was incidental contact so no suspension. Only intentional contact was made by Laz.
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 oh WOW
So the call was just ball 2?
Will Rob Thomson be suspended for making contact with Mike Estabrook? By the NCAA's standards that's an automatic 4 game suspension after the ejection. At this point he would also have received a two game suspension for arguing or continuing to excessively express themselves with prolonged actions or offensive language after an ejection. So he would be facing a total of a 6 game suspension for this. Of course, I've seen coaches make contact with umpires before and MLB does nothing about it. The Mike Napoli ejection that occured last year comes to my mind when Napoli bumped Andy Fletcher. Thomson did several ejectable things during this situation.
The suspension part is determined if it was incidental contact or not if mlb determines it was incidental contact cause it was all he did was make contact with his brim of the hat no suspension will be made if deemed intentional a suspension will be made
It was incidental. Only intentional contact was made by Laz so he should be suspended.
The call was right but the umpires still found a way to be unprofessional. It’s still amazing to me that Rob Thomson will probably get a suspension, but it’s perfectly fine for Laz Diaz to basically push the manager. Laz does this all the time and gets absolutely no discipline. This video conveniently leaves that part out. MLB umps are completely and totally out of control at this point.
Pretty soft. Losing it for getting beaked? Why didn’t he just walk away?
Why do umpires allow hostile people to invade their personal space? Of course he got beaked!
You can't be serious. Rob Thomson was not mad at that sequence whatsoever. It was about the garbage inconsistent K zone all day. Empty calorie confirmation bias.
Inconsistent? He got 96% of the pitches correct.
Yeah mostly on balls. Only 91% of strikes were right and the misses were disproportionately AWFUL.
Is interference the new baseball buzzword lol
Mlb needs to get rid of replay it slows the game let's go back to old school baseball
The average MLB game is 25 minutes faster since 2022. Not sure what you're watching.
Estabrook should not be aggressively attacking after the contact. He should be suspended 5 games for that. If umpires get protected against touching, they should get suspended and fined when they can't restrain themselves.
What the heck are you talking about? 'Attacking'? Get out of here.
“Attacking” first of all it was incidental contact second of all maybe if he would’ve had a consistent strike zone all game long this wouldn’t of happened cause that’s what happened and how it started it
Cant stand umpires, makes baseball unwatchable. No one wants to see them.
Estabrook was calling bad strikes against the Phillies all game up to that point. The no interference was the tipping point. Estabrook will get booed next time he’s behind the plate at citizens bank.
IT'S NOT INTERFERENCE DAMMIT
Assuming he gets assigned there.
Beaking is incidental, not intentional. The only intentional contact was made by Laz.
Absolutely... wrong... fully intentional and would have been thrown out anyways.
@@jeremybrown2495 If it was intentional, then the beak would’ve stood out. He was very close to beaking multiple times before it happened. It only happened when the umpire got a little closer. Regardless, Thomson, Estabrook, and Diaz were all acting unprofessional.
@DJTexan when was the last time you accidentally hit someone with your hat that is currently on your head? He's in full control of his body and he beaked him intentionally
@@jeremybrown2495 It was clear that he was close to beaking him multiple times. When it’s intentional, it stands out. Period.
@@DJTexan when was the last time you lost control of your head and hit someone with it? It's not an accident.
suspension heading his way for touching him too id bet
The only one doing the touching was Laz. The so called beaking wasn’t intentional it was incidental so no suspensions.
So he got ejected for nothing.. AGAIN.. and with why he got the heave-ho... he'll probably be getting supplemental too...
No he won’t. It wasn’t intentional.
@@DJTexan since when did intent have anything to do with that? Even accidental is too close while arguing...
@@ronpeacock9939 Clearly says intentional in the rulebook.
@@DJTexan Really? You might want to read it again... making contact with an official during an argument is FORBIDDEN... period.. intent NOT a factor.. as far a supplemental punishment.. that's NOT in the rulebook... frankly, he's trying to get in the officials face... If you did that to someone, they could legally deck you.... as self-defense.. so it's also a form of assault.. will MLB do it? who knows.. but they could
@@ronpeacock9939 Rule 6.04 says intentional contact. You can be ejected for any contact but suspensions are from intentional.
I love Lindsay, but I think she needs some glasses. He clearly looks out of the box to me. That's my only disagreement.
Incidental contact with the brim. Estabrook is the biggest crybaby when it comes to arguments. Umpires today are soft
I want aware that taking crap from others was manly
Your comments on this channel suggest you're soft and overly emotional.
Prolonged arguing is itself an ejectable offense. Estabrook gave Thomson more that enough time to plead his case.
@@dougr188 Quite the opposite. Estabrook has been on report more than once in his lackluster career of being a hot head. Probably one of the most disrespectful umps in the game today.
@@vincentwendt720 Yet that wasn't the reason he was ejected. It was after the little tap of a hat. Estabrook is the 6th worst umpire behind the plate in ACC and has the 5th most Incorrect calls. No wonder teams don't respect his judgment.