I don't think it's an ejection (seriously, who throws at the back ankle? 99/100 that misses) but yeah, at least talk about it for a _second._ I think the fact that Profar didn't really react probably was a determining factor in the call.
8 HBP in 15 games is quite a lot, and his reaction to hitting him definitely seemed like one from someone who wasn't happy about (he probably assumed he was getting tossed). But based on those two things, I can understand why the umpire could have thought it wasn't intentional.
@@63076topher How do you know his or anyone’s intent? Did he tell you he was going to do it? No…nobody knows if he made a mistake or if he intended to plunk him. I submit when you want to plunk a guy and send a message…it’s from the waist up.
So Warnings come out from a walkoff gone "unsportsmanlike" and the 1st PITCH is an HBP AND NO CONFERENCE? Good lord I would be thrown out if I was Shildt as well. And so would 95% of managers all around the world. That's not right.
While I agree that they should have gotten together to talk about this, I think you got your timing a bit wrong. The walkoff "Unsportsmanlike" was the day before. The Hit-by-Pitch followed a bench clearing incident in the current game. The bench clearing incident is what instigated the warnings. Either way there should have been, at the very least, a discussion by the crew about the hit batter.
David Ross was ejected two years ago in Cincinnati when the umpires wouldn't confer after Patrick Wisdom was hit. Then again in the next game when Willson Contreras was hit.
@@vincentwendt720 I’m pretty sure the Umpires instructions in this regard have changed in recent years(not the rule just how they’re instructed to handle it). It used to be strictly up to the Home Plate umpire; now they’re advised to discuss the call before ejecting someone for this offense. Whether or not they deemed this one intentional or not I still think they should have discussed it. Someone was going to be mad either way. lol
A 98 mph fastball off the back shin of the guy the Nats have a problem with, right after warnings are issued, on the first pitch of the AB, seems like a no-brainer. I thought the pitcher would get catapulted for sure. Maybe the umpire thought the ball just barely clipped his shoe.
Shows you how much faith MLB has in Hamari that they would put him in as crew chief and not bring in a veteran number 2 to chief while Carapazza is away.
You don't know where all the #2's were and what the logistics might have been to get one out to SD. But, it is clear that 76 full-time MLB umpires are not enough. They know vested guys like Carapazza earn in-season vacation and are going to take it. They likely know well in advance when vested guys are going to take their vacation. I know at my job if I don't notify my superiors of taking leave within 2 weeks of the leave dates, they are likely not going to approve it. There needs to be a better plan in place here overall so they don't have #3 guys serving as crew chiefs.
The lack of a conference is unacceptable, but the HBP was definitely unintentional. Profar as a right-handed batter has a weak spot down and inside-he's prone to taking pitches in that area even when they're in the zone, and doesn't make quality contact when he does swing. It seems like the Nationals' plan to get him out was based on that weakness, since the previous day Corbin was pitching him low and inside all 3 PAs. All 3 PAs had 3-ball counts, and all 9 of those balls missed low and inside. Here, the idea seems to be to get ahead in the count with a low & inside called strike (since Profar probably won't swing). Ruiz puts his glove on the low-inside corner within the zone as a target, and the pitch selection was fastball because that's the easiest pitch type to locate. Gore just didn't have full command the first pitch back after the bench clearing interrupted his rhythm.
Love to see Shildty showing some heat and DAMN I LOVE to see Manny bein Manny. Backin up his teammate and trying to control the situation then hittin a nuke to punctuate. THAT is leadership, great job Machado.
Yeah, Machado has really turned his reputation around. Early in his career, he came off as a d-bag, but now he's clearly matured a lot to the point where even I, a Cardinals fan, am aware of his leadership in the Padres clubhouse.
Gore's body language says the HBP was unintentional, but his body language is only that strong because he pretty much immediately accepts that he's getting thrown out of the game.
Just based on the small piece that I saw, we need a full CCS Umpire pronunciation video. I was particularly surprised by Cuzzi and Guccione, both indicate pronunciations I've never heard before.
Pretty good breakdown, and I agree that the pitcher should have been ejected after hitting Profar -- or at least, he should've consulted with his crew. Question: Wasn't Profar knocked down before his walkoff the night before? Shouldn't the Nats' catcher (Ruiz) have been ejected for instigating a confrontation before Profar came into the batter's box? (Or am I confusing this with another game?)
This reminds me of a Royals-A's series in 2015. Friday night: Brett Lawrie(OAK) slides hard into SS Alcides Escobar (KC) to break up a double play that Escobar had no chance of turning (he was facing left field when he took the throw). Escobar leaves due to injury. Benches clear. Saturday night: Yordano Ventura (KC), immediately after giving up a home run to put the A's up 5-0, hits Lawrie in the ribs with a fastball, is ejected. Benches clear. Sunday afternoon: Early in the game, Scott Kazmir (OAK) hits Lorenzo Cain in the legs with a fastball, kind of like this incident. Benches start to clear. Greg Gibson, the home plate umpire, motions to both teams, giving them warnings. Ned Yost (KC manager) erupts, is furious that Kazmir isn't ejected, gets ejected himself. 4 or 5 more Royals (mostly coaches/acting managers) go on to get ejected later that game. That pitch from Kazmir seems to be the only pitch that "got away from him" for the rest of the game.
at some point you just assume a major league pitcher can generally hit their spots and if it's "bad luck" you still get ejected. Sorry if it was just bad luck that you hit the guy with a fastball on the next pitch, but you're responsible for your throws.
Great analysis and video. Completely agree with you here the pitcher and manager have to go after that HBP. The umpires have to protect the players in the game by erroring on the side of it being intentional because at the end of the day they don't KNOW if it was intentional. But after the confrontation at the plate and subsequent warning, I don't think letting it go is the correct decision.
Horrible no throw by the umps, and good ejection take by Shildt. He HAS to stick up for his guys. One way or another, SOMEBODY has to get thrown out in that situation.
Everyone who leaves the bench or their position to join in the ... "melee"... 5 game suspension. Leave the bullpen, 10 games. Suspension is waived if the player actually throws punches, etc.
The NHL & NBA have "leaving the bench" prohibitions. MLB could adopt one as well. But the owners like the controversy because it draws attention to the league, sells tickets, make social media buzz and puts $$$ in their pockets. Until something really bad happens it will not change.
i get the situation, but man, hitting his back foot is stretch for me to call intentional. If anything, if it were intentional, props for not just throwing at his head.
But they gave warnings. 98 mph on the foot may be a sly way to throw intentional. But why give warnings if the very next pitch is HBP and not even a hint of an ejection but there is a quick hook for the manager from the crew chief at third base? Seemed like he knew they blew it and couldn’t handle being called out (like always with umpires)
My takes as a nonbiased (definitely biased) padres fan: - profar was hyping up the crowd with the walkoff after the guy in front of him was intentionally walked -jesse winker watched on the warning track, and later got into an argument with a (likely intoxicated) 65+ year old man and enticed a fight with the man 2-3x his age Next day -winker and profar yapped at eachother as they were switching from offense to defense -profar comes up to bat, ruiz gets close and antagonizes, machado comes to protect profar, winker and abrams run in too, but they are mostly peaceful and getting their own guys calm -warnings given to both teams -very next pitch, fastball to profar's ankles. (Mackenzie Gore was 100% told to throw at him, and I think out of respect for being former teammates he went low to avoid serious damage) -NO EJECTION, NOTHING FOR THE NATS! -Shildt fired up, and HE gets ejected for calling out the BS-my main issue with this whole ordeal. -profar on first, machado hits a 2 run bomb -competitive rest of the game and series, and a series sweep for the padres
I agree with all points made. Just want to add a few. Gore is a bit of a hot head. He's kept it mostly under control, but it's known in the organization. A long break, plus emotion, can definitely rattle a young arm. Watching the game live, I don't think it was intentional. I think Manny might have actually been telling Kiebert make sure you don't hit him
Respectfully, the rule for ejection reads, "Expel the pitcher, OR the manager and the pitcher from the game, or..." and your narrative said the manager MUST be ejected as well as the pitcher. From the text onscreen at 2:36 of the video. I enjoyed the video a great deal. I thought you may want to know about this contradiction. I look forward to watching more of your content. My best to you.
If warnings are not in effect, then yes, the second paragraph at that timestamp applies. However, you need to read the third paragraph again. If warnings ARE in effect, then an intentional HBP will result in the ejection of both the pitcher and his manager.
If it's obvious to Hamari that the pitcher missed, then there's no reason to have a conference. Conferring with the other umpires then deciding not to eject would make the whole thing look nakedly performative. By not meeting with the other umps, Hamari is clearly communicating that there's no doubt in his mind that the hit was unintentional, which is exactly the standard people expect if you're not going to eject the pitcher there.
Hot take: I think every pitcher should be ejected for ANY hit by pitch that the batter is called out for leaning into it. I think it's irrelevant if it's an accident. They get a base for accidents too. If you can't control your pitches enough to not hit an opposing batter then you don't deserve to stay in the game.
Not having the conference is a bad look. Though unless the pitcher is a really good actor, which I don't know him well enough to guage.. his reaction to the HBP is very telling.. looked like he was pissed at himself on it.. (not to mention we can't hear him cuss to himself). I'm not sure it's intentional.. No conference and first pitch after the bench clearing is a bad look in both areas. Some would just say intentional just because it is the first pitch.. but how long was the delay can be a factor too.. if it was long the pitcher could have stiffened up... so many factors.. Glad it was not for me to decide... just tossing would have been the easy button.. still,, not being there means I also don't have all the input either. But not having a meeting is just a bad look and may cost Hamari at the end of the year. Shildt EJ was purely an excessive argument.. those have been going on since before I was born. Still not sure if the Gore non-EJ was right or not... again, I don't think WE have all the details to truly know. Though I will say.. as an ex player (rather than wearing the ump hat).. he should not have been hit in the leg.. should have been the ear hole.. as an umpire.. tough call.. can't say if they were right or not. but it does look bad.
Machado and mini me(Profar) always seem to forget they are professionals. Their attitudes are unacceptable, they always seem to be at the center of it all…
In my opinion, the pitch was suspicious enough where I think it warranted a conference to discuss the possibility of intent and whether or not the pitcher and defensive manager should be ejected. I remember a similar situation in 2012 when Mark Wegner ejected José Quintana (CWS) for intentionally pitching at Ben Zobrist (TB). Although the pitch hit him in the thigh instead of the foot; but nonetheless, it was ruled intentional. The event sent Hawk Harrelson into a two and a half minute rage. I don't exactly remember what the circumstances were, but the announcers said that A.J. Pierzynski (CWS) was hit earlier in the game and that the White Sox were trying to "send a message". Of course the "send a message" part makes me think that Wegner made the right decision. Like I said, I think a crew conference was needed here just because of the circumstances of the hit by pitch to decide whether or not MacKenzie Gore should be ejected. Hopefully, this will be a learning experience.
I honestly don't get why the Nationals were whining. And I am someone who HATES what baseball has become, with the showboating and taunting. I just saw NONE of that in the game winning hit celebration. Nothing wrong with celebrating with your teammates after coming back form 0-2 and hitting a gamed winning hit with 2 outs. Nationals catcher should have been tossed the second he touched Profar. And when he touched him AGAIN after the brawl...how is that NOT an automatic..and possible suspension.
Negative, Ghostrider...the pattern is full. You cannot buzz a dude's tower like that RIGHT AFTER an umpire has issued warnings. If he truly lost his grip on the baseball, well...he picked a bad time for that to happen. I guess it worked out though since the pitcher and the manager weren't ejected as they should have been...
@@tw1nn319 Sure...and the umpire is trying to keep things from escalating because despite being grown men playing this game, the players are always looking for reasons to be butt-hurt about some "unwritten rule" so they can have a pissing contest on the field. So much for pace of play...
@@1969EType I don’t disagree with you but the umpires can only do 2 things, nothing or eject. If they think it was intentional they must eject. If they think it wasn’t, they must do nothing. No other option. In their judgement(and mine too) this was not intentional. No matter what your judgement is, it’s their call to make
Sorry, Lindsay, I tend to agree that it was unintentional because as good as Gore is, he could have hit Profar any other place than the back foot. Just a low and inside pitch.
This is probably the worst umpiring I've ever seen. If I'm UIC Hamari will never CC again, truly abysmal judgement here. If this happens 1-2, bottom 7th, in a close game, sure. But *1 PITCH* after they went after him, I'd suspend Gore and Hamari tbh, idk how any umpire could see that and not eject there. It's hard to criticize missing strikes/balls, safe/outs because anyone who's umped at any level knows how hard that is. This isn't hard. Hamari and the crew failed big time.
Disagree. Warnings go for both teams. Shildt is leaving his position to argue demonstratively. That's gonna get him run, whether he likes it or not. We can make all the assumptions we want, but we can't read minds. That pitch doesn't look intentional. A brushback attempt, maybe, but I don't think they meant to hit him, unless you think that starter was willing to give up his entire start and get suspended.
Oh well, maybe don't throw the first pitch 20 inches off the play after a bench clearer. I don't care he ejected Shildt but I'd come down super hard on Hamari for whatever was going through his mind to not eject.
Given this specific situation yes you eject intentional or not.. if you don’t, then tensions flare even more and it’ll get worse. Didn’t look intentional but you can’t accidentally do that after the benches clear out of repercussion
That’s not the rule though. The rule is if deemed intentional you eject the pitcher and manager, and if not intentional you do nothing. Now should it be deemed unintentional in this situation? That’s debatable.
Agreed...it's very hard to know what a player has in his head or in his heart in any given situation. Unless the pitcher announces he's going to plunk the hitter, how can anyone truly know what someone intended to do? This is a rule that needs to be rewritten to remove the intent part of it. If you plunk someone after warnings are issued, that's an ejection because guess what...any opposing team in this situation is going to read that as intentional whether it was or not and things will indeed escalate. We are there to play a baseball game not have a street fight. I've always liked how the NHL puts their rules together...if you high stick another player? That's a 2 minute minor, regardless of intent. If you high stick another player and it draws blood? That's a 4 minute, double minor. If you tomahawk chop another player or otherwise attempt to injure another player? That's a 10 minute misconduct and an ejection. So, yes...the referees still have to read intent but, ANY illegal action regardless of intent is some kind of penalty. MLB doesn't have minor penalties and penalty boxes...maybe they should? Plunk a guy at ANY time and you're out of the game for an inning and so forth...
Padres umpires been getting over since the Brewers series. Mazur got a few extra strikes which were clearly balls in MIL series. Mazur will get exposed in his next away game. I’ll be right there cashing out fading him.
You obviously don’t know much about Profar. Let me guess, Dodger fan? I’m a Padres fan and I will admit his walk off celebration was over the top but he didn’t say a word this game. Ruiz stopped him from being set at the box and pointed at his chest repeatedly with his finger. Profar, who is always smiling btw, just watched it happen. Manny pushed away Ruiz’ finger. Then after all that Ruiz went right back to Profar to finish the talk as if he’s got more experience than Profar. Get the facts
That's exactly what I mean about current baseball players and coaches/managers being panzies. "oh they celebrated close to our dugout! Boohoo! Wahhhh! I don't like that! Boohooohooo!" They want to talk crap about "unwritten rules" from the past but current players are even worse than past generations. They get their feelings hurt so quick and they have no clue how to handle those feelings so all it takes is 1 pitch they think is wrong and they're already crying and boohooing. I don't remember ever seeing guys in the 90s & 00s acting like these punk azz wannabe baseball players with their Itty bitty "feelwings" 🙄🤦
I’ll add, why didn’t the batter charge the mound? Why didn’t we have another ejection for the Padres hitting a batter in retaliation? Lou Panelia would have gone after the pitcher himself after being ejected.
@@photodave219 I know the names of a lot of umpires in MLB. There was even a post on the Close Call Sports website of who was assigned to what crew. Obviously, there several absences and the some of the umpires are on different crews. For example, I saw Doug Eddings on Marvin Hudson's crew after Hudson was injured by a foul ball. Normally, Doug Eddings is on Bill Miller's crew.
Probably not intentional, they were teammates over a year ago…but Gore still should have been ejected per the rules. This ump team needs to be sent back down
I believe he was going by the reaction of pitcher cause it may or may not seen it, this problem with mlb putting the stupid nonsense in already got togather purpose or not this crew has something happen like this again grantee you there be no warings and they be gone
![[TH] 2024 PMGC League | Survival Stage วันที่ 1 | PUBG MOBILE Global Championship](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/FVFT-PFwU80/mqdefault.jpg)
A HBP one pitch after a bench clearer? I'm quite baffled there was no conference as well.
I don't think it's an ejection (seriously, who throws at the back ankle? 99/100 that misses) but yeah, at least talk about it for a _second._
I think the fact that Profar didn't really react probably was a determining factor in the call.
8 HBP in 15 games is quite a lot, and his reaction to hitting him definitely seemed like one from someone who wasn't happy about (he probably assumed he was getting tossed). But based on those two things, I can understand why the umpire could have thought it wasn't intentional.
Even with no horse in this race I'll admit, I did smirk a little when Machado took the next pitch yard. Don Orsillo nailed it as always.
i let out a belly laugh lol
And Profar hit a grand slam in the 6th.
Have to eject. Hamari’s butt is in the jackpot
well played sir
Thanks, "Tom Hallion"...
I hate that term.
It was NOT intended to hit him.
@@63076topher How do you know his or anyone’s intent? Did he tell you he was going to do it? No…nobody knows if he made a mistake or if he intended to plunk him. I submit when you want to plunk a guy and send a message…it’s from the waist up.
So Warnings come out from a walkoff gone "unsportsmanlike" and the 1st PITCH is an HBP AND NO CONFERENCE? Good lord I would be thrown out if I was Shildt as well. And so would 95% of managers all around the world. That's not right.
While I agree that they should have gotten together to talk about this, I think you got your timing a bit wrong. The walkoff "Unsportsmanlike" was the day before. The Hit-by-Pitch followed a bench clearing incident in the current game. The bench clearing incident is what instigated the warnings. Either way there should have been, at the very least, a discussion by the crew about the hit batter.
David Ross was ejected two years ago in Cincinnati when the umpires wouldn't confer after Patrick Wisdom was hit. Then again in the next game when Willson Contreras was hit.
@@vincentwendt720 I’m pretty sure the Umpires instructions in this regard have changed in recent years(not the rule just how they’re instructed to handle it). It used to be strictly up to the Home Plate umpire; now they’re advised to discuss the call before ejecting someone for this offense. Whether or not they deemed this one intentional or not I still think they should have discussed it. Someone was going to be mad either way. lol
A 98 mph fastball off the back shin of the guy the Nats have a problem with, right after warnings are issued, on the first pitch of the AB, seems like a no-brainer. I thought the pitcher would get catapulted for sure. Maybe the umpire thought the ball just barely clipped his shoe.
I'm willing to believe that it wasn't intentional based on Gore's reaction after throwing it, but I'm likewise astounded that there was no ejection.
Shows you how much faith MLB has in Hamari that they would put him in as crew chief and not bring in a veteran number 2 to chief while Carapazza is away.
They may want to rethink that now. He and this crew biffed this one pretty badly.
You don't know where all the #2's were and what the logistics might have been to get one out to SD. But, it is clear that 76 full-time MLB umpires are not enough. They know vested guys like Carapazza earn in-season vacation and are going to take it. They likely know well in advance when vested guys are going to take their vacation. I know at my job if I don't notify my superiors of taking leave within 2 weeks of the leave dates, they are likely not going to approve it. There needs to be a better plan in place here overall so they don't have #3 guys serving as crew chiefs.
The lack of a conference is unacceptable, but the HBP was definitely unintentional. Profar as a right-handed batter has a weak spot down and inside-he's prone to taking pitches in that area even when they're in the zone, and doesn't make quality contact when he does swing. It seems like the Nationals' plan to get him out was based on that weakness, since the previous day Corbin was pitching him low and inside all 3 PAs. All 3 PAs had 3-ball counts, and all 9 of those balls missed low and inside. Here, the idea seems to be to get ahead in the count with a low & inside called strike (since Profar probably won't swing). Ruiz puts his glove on the low-inside corner within the zone as a target, and the pitch selection was fastball because that's the easiest pitch type to locate. Gore just didn't have full command the first pitch back after the bench clearing interrupted his rhythm.
You are right. Do you think if he really wanted to hit him intentionally he’d hit him somewhere other than the BACK FOOT?! 😂
@@lewf5685 He hit him in the shin. Profar already has a knee injury.
Should’ve shown profars slam after Manuel’s homer
I know the Padres are anyoning, but if your team is upset because YOU gave up the walk off and they CELEBRATED IN THEIR STADIUM, check yourself.
Just curious, how are they annoying? Or are they anyone-ing?
annoying how?
Love to see Shildty showing some heat and DAMN I LOVE to see Manny bein Manny. Backin up his teammate and trying to control the situation then hittin a nuke to punctuate. THAT is leadership, great job Machado.
Yeah, Machado has really turned his reputation around. Early in his career, he came off as a d-bag, but now he's clearly matured a lot to the point where even I, a Cardinals fan, am aware of his leadership in the Padres clubhouse.
Gore's body language says the HBP was unintentional, but his body language is only that strong because he pretty much immediately accepts that he's getting thrown out of the game.
Awesome analysis & breakdown!! Thank you
first time on your channel. great video!
This is the best baseball channel on TH-cam, I’ve learned more about the mechanics of the game here than anywhere and it’s not even close
Just based on the small piece that I saw, we need a full CCS Umpire pronunciation video. I was particularly surprised by Cuzzi and Guccione, both indicate pronunciations I've never heard before.
Pretty good breakdown, and I agree that the pitcher should have been ejected after hitting Profar -- or at least, he should've consulted with his crew.
Question: Wasn't Profar knocked down before his walkoff the night before?
Shouldn't the Nats' catcher (Ruiz) have been ejected for instigating a confrontation before Profar came into the batter's box? (Or am I confusing this with another game?)
This reminds me of a Royals-A's series in 2015.
Friday night: Brett Lawrie(OAK) slides hard into SS Alcides Escobar (KC) to break up a double play that Escobar had no chance of turning (he was facing left field when he took the throw). Escobar leaves due to injury. Benches clear.
Saturday night: Yordano Ventura (KC), immediately after giving up a home run to put the A's up 5-0, hits Lawrie in the ribs with a fastball, is ejected. Benches clear.
Sunday afternoon: Early in the game, Scott Kazmir (OAK) hits Lorenzo Cain in the legs with a fastball, kind of like this incident. Benches start to clear. Greg Gibson, the home plate umpire, motions to both teams, giving them warnings. Ned Yost (KC manager) erupts, is furious that Kazmir isn't ejected, gets ejected himself. 4 or 5 more Royals (mostly coaches/acting managers) go on to get ejected later that game. That pitch from Kazmir seems to be the only pitch that "got away from him" for the rest of the game.
at some point you just assume a major league pitcher can generally hit their spots and if it's "bad luck" you still get ejected. Sorry if it was just bad luck that you hit the guy with a fastball on the next pitch, but you're responsible for your throws.
Great analysis and video. Completely agree with you here the pitcher and manager have to go after that HBP. The umpires have to protect the players in the game by erroring on the side of it being intentional because at the end of the day they don't KNOW if it was intentional. But after the confrontation at the plate and subsequent warning, I don't think letting it go is the correct decision.
Even if it wasn't intentional, you have to eject. It just looks so awful. Still, it was almost certainly intentional
Horrible no throw by the umps, and good ejection take by Shildt. He HAS to stick up for his guys. One way or another, SOMEBODY has to get thrown out in that situation.
To not even conference after an HBP like that? Awful situational handling. Can't blame Shildt here.
Sure hope Machado did a DX chop at the Nats dugout when he rounded 3rd.
I understood that reference
Everyone who leaves the bench or their position to join in the ... "melee"... 5 game suspension. Leave the bullpen, 10 games.
Suspension is waived if the player actually throws punches, etc.
The NHL & NBA have "leaving the bench" prohibitions. MLB could adopt one as well. But the owners like the controversy because it draws attention to the league, sells tickets, make social media buzz and puts $$$ in their pockets.
Until something really bad happens it will not change.
That's two ejections and the wrong side got ejected.
There's only one ejection in this video. What's the other ejection? One of Shildt? One by Hamari?
@@JobiWan144 The wrong side got ejected. Pitcher and manager should've gone the other way.
@@michaelfalkner1186 Oh, I see, you're saying that the umps should have ejected two Nationals instead of one Padre? Yeah, I agree
i get the situation, but man, hitting his back foot is stretch for me to call intentional. If anything, if it were intentional, props for not just throwing at his head.
You're naive If you think that wasn't intentional
Given the circumstances here, if there's one iota of a possibility that it's intentional, you eject on the spot.
But they gave warnings. 98 mph on the foot may be a sly way to throw intentional. But why give warnings if the very next pitch is HBP and not even a hint of an ejection but there is a quick hook for the manager from the crew chief at third base? Seemed like he knew they blew it and couldn’t handle being called out (like always with umpires)
The circumstances were awfully suspicious. I think there minimally needed to be a conference.
Nationals manager admitted it was intentional in interview after the game.
My takes as a nonbiased (definitely biased) padres fan:
- profar was hyping up the crowd with the walkoff after the guy in front of him was intentionally walked
-jesse winker watched on the warning track, and later got into an argument with a (likely intoxicated) 65+ year old man and enticed a fight with the man 2-3x his age
Next day
-winker and profar yapped at eachother as they were switching from offense to defense
-profar comes up to bat, ruiz gets close and antagonizes, machado comes to protect profar, winker and abrams run in too, but they are mostly peaceful and getting their own guys calm
-warnings given to both teams
-very next pitch, fastball to profar's ankles. (Mackenzie Gore was 100% told to throw at him, and I think out of respect for being former teammates he went low to avoid serious damage)
-NO EJECTION, NOTHING FOR THE NATS!
-Shildt fired up, and HE gets ejected for calling out the BS-my main issue with this whole ordeal.
-profar on first, machado hits a 2 run bomb
-competitive rest of the game and series, and a series sweep for the padres
If that wasn't intentional, then I'm a unicorn that craps perfectly cooked bacon.
I agree with all points made. Just want to add a few. Gore is a bit of a hot head. He's kept it mostly under control, but it's known in the organization. A long break, plus emotion, can definitely rattle a young arm. Watching the game live, I don't think it was intentional. I think Manny might have actually been telling Kiebert make sure you don't hit him
And look at the glove placement / movement of the catcher he knew where the ball would land.
Respectfully, the rule for ejection reads, "Expel the pitcher, OR the manager and the pitcher from the game, or..." and your narrative said the manager MUST be ejected as well as the pitcher. From the text onscreen at 2:36 of the video. I enjoyed the video a great deal. I thought you may want to know about this contradiction. I look forward to watching more of your content. My best to you.
If warnings are not in effect, then yes, the second paragraph at that timestamp applies. However, you need to read the third paragraph again. If warnings ARE in effect, then an intentional HBP will result in the ejection of both the pitcher and his manager.
@JobiWan144 thank you for pointing out my error.
Profar hit a grand slam later that game.
As a (non-MLB) umpire, I think this was no big deal. It seemed fairly obvious that this was not intentional, and THAT is what warrants an ejection.
profars a punk
If it's obvious to Hamari that the pitcher missed, then there's no reason to have a conference. Conferring with the other umpires then deciding not to eject would make the whole thing look nakedly performative. By not meeting with the other umps, Hamari is clearly communicating that there's no doubt in his mind that the hit was unintentional, which is exactly the standard people expect if you're not going to eject the pitcher there.
Hockey does it right. Just allow 1v1 fights and break it up when it goes to the ground.
At the least, the first person out of each dugout and the manager should be ejected when the benches clear.
What website do you get the umpire bios from?
Probably deserved an ejection, but that was a lot of movement on the pitch, and Gore's reaction probably threw Adam off.
With warnings in effect, why would he hit him? The pitcher's reaction is not, 'yeah, I hit you' it's more like 'oh, crap.'
gore's HBP may get reviewed for a suspension despite no ejection
Hot take: I think every pitcher should be ejected for ANY hit by pitch that the batter is called out for leaning into it. I think it's irrelevant if it's an accident. They get a base for accidents too. If you can't control your pitches enough to not hit an opposing batter then you don't deserve to stay in the game.
I have been right in the past, make hbp a double, penalizing intentional and makes pitchers more diligent on bad throws.
Honestly I don't see it as intentional. Plus it would be stupid to be intentional with your starter in the 1st.
Not having the conference is a bad look. Though unless the pitcher is a really good actor, which I don't know him well enough to guage.. his reaction to the HBP is very telling.. looked like he was pissed at himself on it.. (not to mention we can't hear him cuss to himself). I'm not sure it's intentional.. No conference and first pitch after the bench clearing is a bad look in both areas. Some would just say intentional just because it is the first pitch.. but how long was the delay can be a factor too.. if it was long the pitcher could have stiffened up... so many factors.. Glad it was not for me to decide... just tossing would have been the easy button.. still,, not being there means I also don't have all the input either. But not having a meeting is just a bad look and may cost Hamari at the end of the year. Shildt EJ was purely an excessive argument.. those have been going on since before I was born. Still not sure if the Gore non-EJ was right or not... again, I don't think WE have all the details to truly know. Though I will say.. as an ex player (rather than wearing the ump hat).. he should not have been hit in the leg.. should have been the ear hole.. as an umpire.. tough call.. can't say if they were right or not. but it does look bad.
There was ZERO intent to hit this guy.
Martinez said it was to send a message. So, 1%? Also, Gore is still upset he was traded from the Padres.
This hbp after homers needs to stop. There is no need unless you are down so bad and someone pimps. Make it an automatic 15 games and it stops.
was a fun game! we lost in the end but at least it was anything but boring😂
Actually, we won in the end.
I thinking of starting a channel where you grade baseball announcers lol
Machado and mini me(Profar) always seem to forget they are professionals. Their attitudes are unacceptable, they always seem to be at the center of it all…
In my opinion, the pitch was suspicious enough where I think it warranted a conference to discuss the possibility of intent and whether or not the pitcher and defensive manager should be ejected. I remember a similar situation in 2012 when Mark Wegner ejected José Quintana (CWS) for intentionally pitching at Ben Zobrist (TB). Although the pitch hit him in the thigh instead of the foot; but nonetheless, it was ruled intentional. The event sent Hawk Harrelson into a two and a half minute rage. I don't exactly remember what the circumstances were, but the announcers said that A.J. Pierzynski (CWS) was hit earlier in the game and that the White Sox were trying to "send a message". Of course the "send a message" part makes me think that Wegner made the right decision. Like I said, I think a crew conference was needed here just because of the circumstances of the hit by pitch to decide whether or not MacKenzie Gore should be ejected. Hopefully, this will be a learning experience.
I have a feeling that crew is going to be light in the wallet, or on sanctioned vacation
Handled perfectly in my opinion.
I agree. Machado's home run and Profar's grand slam handled it perfecly!
I honestly don't get why the Nationals were whining. And I am someone who HATES what baseball has become, with the showboating and taunting. I just saw NONE of that in the game winning hit celebration. Nothing wrong with celebrating with your teammates after coming back form 0-2 and hitting a gamed winning hit with 2 outs.
Nationals catcher should have been tossed the second he touched Profar. And when he touched him AGAIN after the brawl...how is that NOT an automatic..and possible suspension.
HBP may have been an accident. Sure looks like it.
Negative, Ghostrider...the pattern is full. You cannot buzz a dude's tower like that RIGHT AFTER an umpire has issued warnings. If he truly lost his grip on the baseball, well...he picked a bad time for that to happen. I guess it worked out though since the pitcher and the manager weren't ejected as they should have been...
@@1969EType its a judgement call, lets relax
@@tw1nn319 Sure...and the umpire is trying to keep things from escalating because despite being grown men playing this game, the players are always looking for reasons to be butt-hurt about some "unwritten rule" so they can have a pissing contest on the field. So much for pace of play...
@@1969EType I don’t disagree with you but the umpires can only do 2 things, nothing or eject. If they think it was intentional they must eject. If they think it wasn’t, they must do nothing. No other option. In their judgement(and mine too) this was not intentional. No matter what your judgement is, it’s their call to make
@@tw1nn319 Nationals manager admitted it was on purpose.
If you look at the pitchers reaction this was not intentional.
manager literally said in the post game it was to send a message. It was intentional
i find it very hard to believe that these people are, in fact, adults
👍
Sorry, Lindsay, I tend to agree that it was unintentional because as good as Gore is, he could have hit Profar any other place than the back foot. Just a low and inside pitch.
Gore is still upset the Padres traded him.
Washington is so soft tbh
Complete horseshit. You can't give warnings and then not eject the pitcher on that.
Or at least discuss it in a conference.
This is probably the worst umpiring I've ever seen. If I'm UIC Hamari will never CC again, truly abysmal judgement here. If this happens 1-2, bottom 7th, in a close game, sure. But *1 PITCH* after they went after him, I'd suspend Gore and Hamari tbh, idk how any umpire could see that and not eject there. It's hard to criticize missing strikes/balls, safe/outs because anyone who's umped at any level knows how hard that is. This isn't hard. Hamari and the crew failed big time.
Disagree. Warnings go for both teams. Shildt is leaving his position to argue demonstratively. That's gonna get him run, whether he likes it or not.
We can make all the assumptions we want, but we can't read minds. That pitch doesn't look intentional. A brushback attempt, maybe, but I don't think they meant to hit him, unless you think that starter was willing to give up his entire start and get suspended.
@Jrose11 You’re a padres fan??!! I’ve been watching your vids for ages man! Go pads!
Oh well, maybe don't throw the first pitch 20 inches off the play after a bench clearer. I don't care he ejected Shildt but I'd come down super hard on Hamari for whatever was going through his mind to not eject.
@@teebob21 Nationals manager admitted it was intentional.
@@joshpaul5335 And that's what the benefit of hindsight looks like. No one has that available on the field in the moment.
Hamari must have had money on the game… unfathomable decision.
Given this specific situation yes you eject intentional or not.. if you don’t, then tensions flare even more and it’ll get worse. Didn’t look intentional but you can’t accidentally do that after the benches clear out of repercussion
That’s not the rule though. The rule is if deemed intentional you eject the pitcher and manager, and if not intentional you do nothing. Now should it be deemed unintentional in this situation? That’s debatable.
Agreed...it's very hard to know what a player has in his head or in his heart in any given situation. Unless the pitcher announces he's going to plunk the hitter, how can anyone truly know what someone intended to do? This is a rule that needs to be rewritten to remove the intent part of it. If you plunk someone after warnings are issued, that's an ejection because guess what...any opposing team in this situation is going to read that as intentional whether it was or not and things will indeed escalate. We are there to play a baseball game not have a street fight. I've always liked how the NHL puts their rules together...if you high stick another player? That's a 2 minute minor, regardless of intent. If you high stick another player and it draws blood? That's a 4 minute, double minor. If you tomahawk chop another player or otherwise attempt to injure another player? That's a 10 minute misconduct and an ejection. So, yes...the referees still have to read intent but, ANY illegal action regardless of intent is some kind of penalty. MLB doesn't have minor penalties and penalty boxes...maybe they should? Plunk a guy at ANY time and you're out of the game for an inning and so forth...
This was a no-brainer. There was obviously no intention, so no ejection was warranted.
Hamari suck
Padres umpires been getting over since the Brewers series. Mazur got a few extra strikes which were clearly balls in MIL series. Mazur will get exposed in his next away game. I’ll be right there cashing out fading him.
Jurickson Profar is just like Nyjer Morgan. Always looking to start something.
Profar wasn’t the one who started it Ruiz went up to him first
🙄
You obviously don’t know much about Profar. Let me guess, Dodger fan? I’m a Padres fan and I will admit his walk off celebration was over the top but he didn’t say a word this game. Ruiz stopped him from being set at the box and pointed at his chest repeatedly with his finger. Profar, who is always smiling btw, just watched it happen. Manny pushed away Ruiz’ finger. Then after all that Ruiz went right back to Profar to finish the talk as if he’s got more experience than Profar. Get the facts
Acted like he won the world series
That's exactly what I mean about current baseball players and coaches/managers being panzies. "oh they celebrated close to our dugout! Boohoo! Wahhhh! I don't like that! Boohooohooo!"
They want to talk crap about "unwritten rules" from the past but current players are even worse than past generations. They get their feelings hurt so quick and they have no clue how to handle those feelings so all it takes is 1 pitch they think is wrong and they're already crying and boohooing.
I don't remember ever seeing guys in the 90s & 00s acting like these punk azz wannabe baseball players with their Itty bitty "feelwings" 🙄🤦
I agree. And Dave Martinez in always complaining about unwritten rules hurting his feelings to the media. Big baby
I’ll add, why didn’t the batter charge the mound? Why didn’t we have another ejection for the Padres hitting a batter in retaliation? Lou Panelia would have gone after the pitcher himself after being ejected.
120 is rapidly becoming one of my least favorite umpire
Now that Angel has retired . . .
3 digit umpires are call-ups. They are not full-time umpires. So, you may not have to worry yourself about seeing him too much in the future...
@@1969EType The fact that I know who Brian Walsh is during his short tenue in MLB speaks volumes....
@@photodave219 I know the names of a lot of umpires in MLB. There was even a post on the Close Call Sports website of who was assigned to what crew. Obviously, there several absences and the some of the umpires are on different crews. For example, I saw Doug Eddings on Marvin Hudson's crew after Hudson was injured by a foul ball. Normally, Doug Eddings is on Bill Miller's crew.
TAKE. THAT! 💀
Don Orsillo is so toxic 🐐
And also correct.
nah hes real af
Probably not intentional, they were teammates over a year ago…but Gore still should have been ejected per the rules. This ump team needs to be sent back down
Nationals manager said it was intentional.
In the post game Dave Martinez said it was to send a message 🤷♂️
I believe he was going by the reaction of pitcher cause it may or may not seen it, this problem with mlb putting the stupid nonsense in already got togather purpose or not this crew has something happen like this again grantee you there be no warings and they be gone
This narrator is lame