I ran a 1984 Chev S-10 Blazer in New Brunswick - not too far from Mike - for ten years. It was used every day right through the winter in salt and slush. Once a week, I went to a coin-operated car wash and carefully cleaned the undercarriage. After ten years, it did start to rust in the crap-design "pockets" in the body behind the rear wheels, so I sold it to a mate who fixed the rust and then drove it another five years. Taught his kids to drive stick on it. Still on the original clutch @ 400K KM. Total repair costs over those years? $150. Sometimes it's not so much the vehicle - it's the owners...
I’ve recently fitted “Gwyn Lewis” mud shields to my 90 to protect the rear crossmember and the tubular outriggers along with ones that help protect the bulkhead outriggers, I think they will really help
Hi Mike, FANTASTIC video. So pleased that you have drawn attention to this issue. Whilst there are some very good rust proofing products, these rely a lot on the initial surface preparation as you point out. Fine if the vehicle is new, challenging for older vehicles. I have fitted products made by Gwyn Lewis which are plastic "mud shields" which keep the shit out. They are excellent - check them out. Best Simon
I think everyone watching this feels the same frustration! Mine gets pressure washed several times a year in the rain hope of preserving it as long as possible....
I own a 2015 110 XS and every time I go off road it gets pressure washed the next day. Never let the mud build up. Blast through all the holes in the cross member as well as everything you can reach under the wheel arches. I've no rust preventative sprayed on, when the mud is blasted off I can still see the black chassis paint. When dry you can then crawl under and have a good look to see if there are any areas that look like they could be in the early stages of corrosion. If so treat with small amounts of Dinitrol 3125 HS. If you do this the truck will out live you but you will have to have a disciplined frame of mind to continue with this practise.
I’ve recently fitted a full set of Gwyn Lewis mud shields in effort to keep the worst of the rubbish off. They seem to be going the job so far. Mine is a 07 Defender and the bottom of the C pillars are suffering badly even though I try to be diligent at hosing off accumulated mud from underneath.
Mike, you are right, the climate is a big influence. My 1997 ex-Oman Army Defender 110 didn't have a spec of rust on the chassis, but both footwells had rusted through in a couple of spots. Also both sides bulkhead top corners under the window had rusted through and required new steel infill pieces. But as I said the chassis and total underbody is mint.
Hi mike ano it's an old video but come across it on my feed I'm literally replacing that aframe crossmember due to all the mud in there rotted all the top of the chassis , now I'm boxing that trap off now so mud cant get back inside there
It amazes me also that there are loads of ledges where crap can sit and rust away our trucks. I wonder if it would be an idea to custom make some "inner guards" out of rubber sheet or something similar? I haven't seen anything around that is aftermarket.
You should definitely try get your design made. I’ve tried very hard to find some kind of inner wheel arch product. A small plate is available to plug up the hole from the front wheels to the outrigger but that’s about it. I believe it to be a good gap in the market in the swamped world of Land Rover mods. When I get round to it I am going to make something for my 110, both front and rear arches to try mitigate this problem.
@@Viaticboston Thanks for the heads up. I've had a look and these are just a similar idea to the aforementioned small plates. I would much prefer some kind of full inner arch liner that protects everything
It's a shame land rover never wax oiled them from new, i've been looking for an l322 td6 every one i've looked at are roten subframes and sills a70 grand motor no rust proofing at all bloody madness .
Do you have to remove the second row seat floor to be able to get out the mid crossmember, and mount a new one? It there an easier way? Does it slide out and new one in, sideways? Looking at a very nice 110 td5 2006 with only 61000km on the odo. I checked the chassis. Took me 2 hours. The mid crossmember is the only part I would need to change due to rust. It got rust holes on top of it. I am getting a galvaniced one to mount.
If you get a YRM one it has bolt on brackets so you can remove the triangular body panel under the mid row door that is pop riveted on and then cut the old one out and push in a new one
Mike, you said you designed an inner fender that nobody would make for you? What with modern plastic molding techniques that companies use to make snorkels, fender flares etc. the design and production cost could be recouped fairly quickly. Bearmach, hello? There's money still to be made on old Defenders, me thinks.
The guy i bought my Land Rover off told me, Just look after the chassis son, and the top will look after it's sen. So i have and so far he'a been right...
Sadly these points are not just specific to green ovals. As previous comments have said it’s not in manufacturers interests to make anything last forever is it. MGB’s have the mother of all shelves under front wings too
As the saying goes if they made cars and trucks that did not rust out then they would seen go out of business I love looking at cars from the hotter parts of America you see 50/60 year old trucks still being used as daily drivers in the Uk they are called classic cars and mostly only go to car shows in the summer to keep them safe from the dreaded salt.
I have an 84 Ford F150 in Maine. 35 years old and it was a plow truck before I bought it 25 years ago. It's not perfect, and it had a respray before I bought it, but the frame is 100% and the body 90%. Ford make a big mistake with that model :-)
Still, if you ever watch a channel like Eric at South Main Auto in New York State, where 10-15 YO Toyotas, Dodges and the like are done for rust you may think the LR stuff isn't as bad as all that.
You can see why there are not many Toyota Cruisers here - in the 70's there were a few like the old Series, but they rusted out big time and are not imported now - the new Cruiser is branded as a Lexus here - starting at C$80,000 - RR class!
Does anyone make a shield inner wheel wheel ? Or is it just a matter of keeping it flushed out and oiling ? You should check out New Hampshire Under coat spray . Here in Wisconsin it has literally saved my vehicles
Chances are it would make things worse. At least now you have access to the dirt traps - add a liner and you'd have a false sense of security and no visuals on them
Thank heavens my 95 110 lives in South Africa. But I still see people dipping their chassis in salt water loading boats or even driving on the beach. I shudder when I see it. Rust never sleeps (as our Canadian pal Neil once said). Running a Defender in the winter in salt-laden US or Canadian roads is madness. Get a winter beater. It's bad enough in the UK (where salt use is minimal and pretty much always ineffective) and you see the rust issue every day due to the number of Landies still operational I had my D2 Waxoyled when I bought it ten years ago. It may have helped, the rear frame rails are holding up OK - but its Mot is in a couple of weeks, so we will see. It's getting hard to find someone to do Waxoyl now - environmental regs I suppose. The Defender sees lots of sand but occasionally mud, so then it's a pressure wash before storage
Even if you buy an aftermarket galv chassis they are pretty useless, when you come to fit everything to it, you have to run a drill through it first because the preformed holes are too tight for the bolts,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,brilliant!! don't know what they are like now mind haven't done one for donkeys years, come to think of it don't ever want to do one again!
Touch wood there is no rust in my D1 i live in tropical North Queensland Australia and in the last 2 years have put it over about 100k of dirt roads and tracks , bulldust up to about 500mm deep , ect ect , i just park in a flowing creek to clean the crap and oil off the chassis ( its a 300 tdi they leak ) it only gets washed in the wet season. If i did not know better I would say you are parking them in acid water , that salt they put on the road is certainly a car killer
I don’t live in a place with snow. (Gold Coast, Australia) but I’d neck myself if I let my defender get that dirty. I do however live in a coastal environment and have driven on coastal beaches many times. Wash your Land Rovers people!
No real improvement from my 1965 Series 2A, same rear rail problems, currently getting the body of mine for chassis repairs, they rust in Australia in well. They rust from the inside out.
Ah yes Flanagan and Allen edition underneath the arches lol. I reckon the Landie was designed and built without rust wear and tear in mind when people had time to look after their machines etc but now priorities have changed more as in quantity exceeds the quality and maintenance argument. Contrast that to my Dads' view that engineers will be redundant unless there is a life to their products kind of make it sell it once reality then what yep no more sales so come up with something new?
Q. How did Land Rover get away with such a terrible design for so long? A. Military contract! When the MoD stopped ordering Defenders and they had to stand on their own merits Land Rover quickly stopped making them
I ran a 1984 Chev S-10 Blazer in New Brunswick - not too far from Mike - for ten years. It was used every day right through the winter in salt and slush. Once a week, I went to a coin-operated car wash and carefully cleaned the undercarriage. After ten years, it did start to rust in the crap-design "pockets" in the body behind the rear wheels, so I sold it to a mate who fixed the rust and then drove it another five years. Taught his kids to drive stick on it. Still on the original clutch @ 400K KM. Total repair costs over those years? $150. Sometimes it's not so much the vehicle - it's the owners...
I’ve recently fitted “Gwyn Lewis” mud shields to my 90 to protect the rear crossmember and the tubular outriggers along with ones that help protect the bulkhead outriggers, I think they will really help
I have yet to see them, but anything is better than nothing!
Yep. Its all so familiar!
Mines a 1985 and l keep it clean all the time,it makes it easy to work on
Hi Mike,
FANTASTIC video. So pleased that you have drawn attention to this issue. Whilst there are some very good rust proofing products, these rely a lot on the initial surface preparation as you point out. Fine if the vehicle is new, challenging for older vehicles. I have fitted products made by Gwyn Lewis which are plastic "mud shields" which keep the shit out. They are excellent - check them out.
Best Simon
Bought mine new in '02 and have been good at rinsing it off - just pulled the pick up bed (130) and wow - what a mess!
I think everyone watching this feels the same frustration!
Mine gets pressure washed several times a year in the rain hope of preserving it as long as possible....
Mikes new motto should be “making landrovers less rusty, one at a time”.
I own a 2015 110 XS and every time I go off road it gets pressure washed the next day. Never let the mud build up. Blast through all the holes in the cross member as well as everything you can reach under the wheel arches. I've no rust preventative sprayed on, when the mud is blasted off I can still see the black chassis paint. When dry you can then crawl under and have a good look to see if there are any areas that look like they could be in the early stages of corrosion. If so treat with small amounts of Dinitrol 3125 HS. If you do this the truck will out live you but you will have to have a disciplined frame of mind to continue with this practise.
Just be aware these chassis rust from the inside out!
@@BritannicaRestorations You are so right, nothing you can do but to spray stuff into the multitude of holes available.
Drill some 25 mm holes in the bottom of the chassis to aid letting water out, breathing and applying rust proofing
I’ve recently fitted a full set of Gwyn Lewis mud shields in effort to keep the worst of the rubbish off. They seem to be going the job so far. Mine is a 07 Defender and the bottom of the C pillars are suffering badly even though I try to be diligent at hosing off accumulated mud from underneath.
Mike, you are right, the climate is a big influence. My 1997 ex-Oman Army Defender 110 didn't have a spec of rust on the chassis, but both footwells had rusted through in a couple of spots. Also both sides bulkhead top corners under the window had rusted through and required new steel infill pieces. But as I said the chassis and total underbody is mint.
Hi mike ano it's an old video but come across it on my feed I'm literally replacing that aframe crossmember due to all the mud in there rotted all the top of the chassis , now I'm boxing that trap off now so mud cant get back inside there
Got the same on my 110, and now looking at fitting Gwyn Lewis 4x4 Wheel arch shields and flaps kits front and rear
They seem quite popular
It amazes me also that there are loads of ledges where crap can sit and rust away our trucks. I wonder if it would be an idea to custom make some "inner guards" out of rubber sheet or something similar? I haven't seen anything around that is aftermarket.
I have given it some serious thought on this and I have some sketches but getting them made is another thing!
You should definitely try get your design made. I’ve tried very hard to find some kind of inner wheel arch product. A small plate is available to plug up the hole from the front wheels to the outrigger but that’s about it. I believe it to be a good gap in the market in the swamped world of Land Rover mods.
When I get round to it I am going to make something for my 110, both front and rear arches to try mitigate this problem.
GwynLewis 4x4 eBay shop do a very good guard. I’ve fitted front and rear and they work very well.
@@Viaticboston Thanks for the heads up. I've had a look and these are just a similar idea to the aforementioned small plates. I would much prefer some kind of full inner arch liner that protects everything
I have to wash my own Freelander at least once a week. If I don't it won't last ten minutes let alone ten years. Good video mate.👍
It's a shame land rover never wax oiled them from new, i've been looking for an l322 td6 every one i've looked at are roten subframes and sills a70 grand motor no rust proofing at all bloody madness .
You would have thought they would do something? High end vehicle all rusted out - not good publicity
I've just had an idea I have ! Hmmmm a magic dirt wand would be nice 🙆♂️
Oh! Maybe I should roll it over?! maybe not....
Oh man even though I have a galvanised chassis this makes me want to get straight home and pressure wash it.....
Do you have to remove the second row seat floor to be able to get out the mid crossmember, and mount a new one? It there an easier way? Does it slide out and new one in, sideways? Looking at a very nice 110 td5 2006 with only 61000km on the odo. I checked the chassis. Took me 2 hours. The mid crossmember is the only part I would need to change due to rust. It got rust holes on top of it. I am getting a galvaniced one to mount.
If you get a YRM one it has bolt on brackets so you can remove the triangular body panel under the mid row door that is pop riveted on and then cut the old one out and push in a new one
@@BritannicaRestorations thanks a lot 👍. I have seen it on their website. Will order that one👍. Thanks again!
Mike, you said you designed an inner fender that nobody would make for you? What with modern plastic molding techniques that companies use to make snorkels, fender flares etc. the design and production cost could be recouped fairly quickly. Bearmach, hello? There's money still to be made on old Defenders, me thinks.
I am in communications with them !
The guy i bought my Land Rover off told me, Just look after the chassis son, and the top will look after it's sen. So i have and so far he'a been right...
Sadly these points are not just specific to green ovals. As previous comments have said it’s not in manufacturers interests to make anything last forever is it. MGB’s have the mother of all shelves under front wings too
see here
th-cam.com/video/aB8hiiIq5qw/w-d-xo.html
As the saying goes if they made cars and trucks that did not rust out then they would seen go out of business I love looking at cars from the hotter parts of America you see 50/60 year old trucks still being used as daily drivers in the Uk they are called classic cars and mostly only go to car shows in the summer to keep them safe from the dreaded salt.
I have an 84 Ford F150 in Maine. 35 years old and it was a plow truck before I bought it 25 years ago. It's not perfect, and it had a respray before I bought it, but the frame is 100% and the body 90%. Ford make a big mistake with that model :-)
Getting a galvanized rear-cross member next chance I get.
Still, if you ever watch a channel like Eric at South Main Auto in New York State, where 10-15 YO Toyotas, Dodges and the like are done for rust you may think the LR stuff isn't as bad as all that.
You can see why there are not many Toyota Cruisers here - in the 70's there were a few like the old Series, but they rusted out big time and are not imported now - the new Cruiser is branded as a Lexus here - starting at C$80,000 - RR class!
Hiya... so the question is what to do about it?
All that for the sake of plastic wheel arches cost bloody penneys .
Does anyone make a shield inner wheel wheel ?
Or is it just a matter of keeping it flushed out and oiling ?
You should check out New Hampshire Under coat spray .
Here in Wisconsin it has literally saved my vehicles
Chances are it would make things worse. At least now you have access to the dirt traps - add a liner and you'd have a false sense of security and no visuals on them
@@canamsteve5321 good point
The only way is to wash the LR as often as possible .
Hi mike. When do you estimate the next 2.5 video?
Waiting for the pump to come back after re sealing the throttle shafts
@@BritannicaRestorations ah got it thanks. Its just because I've got a 2.5 now that doesnt run right. I've tried injector timing and no luck
What is the problem Owen?
PM me at britrest@britrest.com
( I get lost on following threads!)
Thank heavens my 95 110 lives in South Africa. But I still see people dipping their chassis in salt water loading boats or even driving on the beach. I shudder when I see it. Rust never sleeps (as our Canadian pal Neil once said). Running a Defender in the winter in salt-laden US or Canadian roads is madness. Get a winter beater. It's bad enough in the UK (where salt use is minimal and pretty much always ineffective) and you see the rust issue every day due to the number of Landies still operational
I had my D2 Waxoyled when I bought it ten years ago. It may have helped, the rear frame rails are holding up OK - but its Mot is in a couple of weeks, so we will see. It's getting hard to find someone to do Waxoyl now - environmental regs I suppose. The Defender sees lots of sand but occasionally mud, so then it's a pressure wash before storage
Even if you buy an aftermarket galv chassis they are pretty useless, when you come to fit everything to it, you have to run a drill through it first because the preformed holes are too tight for the bolts,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,brilliant!! don't know what they are like now mind haven't done one for donkeys years, come to think of it don't ever want to do one again!
Touch wood there is no rust in my D1 i live in tropical North Queensland Australia and in the last 2 years have put it over about 100k of dirt roads and tracks , bulldust up to about 500mm deep , ect ect , i just park in a flowing creek to clean the crap and oil off the chassis ( its a 300 tdi they leak ) it only gets washed in the wet season. If i did not know better I would say you are parking them in acid water , that salt they put on the road is certainly a car killer
Discovery's had such a bad rap for rust here they changed the name to LR3 etc Freelander 2 was the LR2
I canny stand dirt on me landrover. ..jurrst polished the grease nipples..😁😎
I don’t live in a place with snow. (Gold Coast, Australia) but I’d neck myself if I let my defender get that dirty. I do however live in a coastal environment and have driven on coastal beaches many times. Wash your Land Rovers people!
I wash mine in deep puddles lol.
If you want some snow, get back to me in a few months when I will have a few tonnes for free!
Lol!
No real improvement from my 1965 Series 2A, same rear rail problems, currently getting the body of mine for chassis repairs, they rust in Australia in well. They rust from the inside out.
Ah yes Flanagan and Allen edition underneath the arches lol. I reckon the Landie was designed and built without rust wear and tear in mind when people had time to look after their machines etc but now priorities have changed more as in quantity exceeds the quality and maintenance argument. Contrast that to my Dads' view that engineers will be redundant unless there is a life to their products kind of make it sell it once reality then what yep no more sales so come up with something new?
Rust traps ARE Landrovers would be a better title....sorry,couldn't help it
Q. How did Land Rover get away with such a terrible design for so long?
A. Military contract!
When the MoD stopped ordering Defenders and they had to stand on their own merits Land Rover quickly stopped making them
The fact is they did not as people stopped buying them even British farmers and the forces started to buy pickup trucks .
what can you do ,,,, buy something else.
vote with your wallet.
Land Rovers really are tragic.