I will never do an unpaid art test ever again. Did it once, spent a week on the assignment. Didn't get the job. Waste of time. Your portfolio is enough for a good AD.
The difference between low-paying and high-paying behaviour of clients is honestly insane. I had two gigs on Fiverr. One was expensive (I’ve been doing that for years, and I’m very professional at it), the other was cheap (I don’t have the right equipment or experience to do this professionally, but some quick easy jobs can definitely be done). The difference of people was SCARY. Expensive gig was always professional, cheap gig was mostly the worst clients you can imagine. I closed the gig for this reason, wasn’t worth it.
I'm not an artist, but I think what you're saying you want to do on this channel is extremely important. Any entrepreneur (and an artist is also an entrepreneur) must know how to manage the financial aspect as well. My father (who worked in another sector and wasn't an artist, but difficult clients are always the same, and it's very true what you say that those who pay the most also expect the least) used to tell clients asking for free samples, 'I am a merchant, not a bank. If you want something, you pay for it. I can't afford to spend time and money now in the hope that someday you'll pay me back.
Make your portfolio best of the best. Make it as attractive and appealing as you can. Prefer both quality and quantity. Work in the most efficient way possible. Don't work hard but be smart. Consider that your energy, you're putting into a project, and your skills are valuable.
As a freelancer trying to break into the mid-level, having a few years of this, I'd like to add the following: You can't be afraid to make mistakes, but only as long as you can assure you're doing your best at all times. If you're serious about it - would rather be in charge of yourself instead of collecting steady paychecks - you're going to have to put in the hours. It's going to be discouraging, you're going to put yourself in positions you're going to look back and cringe in the future, but the potential payoff is very enticing. In the end, it all comes back to what makes sense to YOU as an individual, the only non-variable is the required skill to weigh what your qualities are and lean on them to get you where you want to be. You can only truly stand out if you're true to yourself, imo. Good luck everyone!
I liked this short vid, and the tip! I found this as well. I sell products and it’s never paid off to send any samples, even when they put them in front of their audience as give aways because this ultimately attracts people who’re just looking for freebies.
here's my tip: if a studio wants to work with you, they should give you a contract. not 'in a week' or 'next month' - the contract's never coming. it's not 'still being translated' and it's not fine to do the work anyway. they're gonna rip you off sooner or later.
Another tip for artists, do not describe what you will do with what you offer. The only reason i say this is due to the use of AI. I know, it sucks but because AI exists, just what you described can be used as a prompt. I'm no artists but as someone who has seen artists struggle and who is friends with artists, i have to put that out there for you. Do not describe what you offer and yeah, like Renderer said, don't offer samples. Stay safe out there everyone.
Yeah, I'll be subscribing to see more business minded stuff regarding pursuing art as a career. Personally, I'm pretty illiterate when it comes to the business side of art, just like most people, and whenever I try to find any videos or tips or anything from other artists there tends to be a lot of runaround and no straight answers. It's the most irritating thing
more tips like this please. loved how straight forward this was no beating around the bush. but tbh this def relieved more of my stress with where I am because I'm still goin in 6 yrs deep and have still not found a way out but I have been pushing through the best I can.
I just found you through this video and appreciate it so much! These are definitely important things for people to look out for…..and I do like this format. Keep up the awesome work!!
Being a freelance graphic designer in India, I too have faced such clients who either ask for sample work or hesitate paying upfront. Thankyou so much for the crisp yet insightful video! Definitely following these tips with new clients from now on 👍🏻
I worked for so many people for free cuz they begged me... and one of them got famous after a year and he contacted me and recommended me in his channel. Building network is too important too. Being scared and not trusting abundance is a huge red flage for any upcoming artist + business man😊
I also struggle to make videos under the pressure of it must be amazing and useful and then the time required means I never make anything. This was very valuable even in this raw format and encouraging for me to see. simple videos are fine, just reminding people you still exist.
I learned to watermark my work until I get paid and when my contract is signed. If they decide to NOT give me anything until the deadline, they will have the video with the watermark and I get a nice free portfolio piece. :))
I once applied and got interviewed for a job in the game graphics industry. For the next step in my applying process this rather new company wanted me to make a sample logo for them. I felt conflicted by it in the moment - while I feel they might want to see and test how fast I can work in the creative field according to their wishes, BUT I also was extremely hesitant to make them a potential logo all for free. I didn't end up doing it or even wanting the job after that.
i think a lot of new artists don't ask for 50% upfront (or anything upfront) because they aren't confident in themselves yet - at least this is true for me. I still feel like, oh shit what if I take their money and then I can't meet the standards/quality they expect. that's such hard personal hurdle to get over honestly.
you can do 30/40/30 as well, we did it for longer projects in marketing this way you end up with 70% before finishing the project and client feels more safe than paying 50%
Totally understand. I've taken 50% upfront before, realized that the project was a bit out of reach, and then refunded it later. Moving with confidence even if you're not feeling that way is always a good plan. Good luck!
Thank you for this video! Although this does help, even some high paying clients can be secretly unhinged and may try to gaslight you on social media: if they want you to do extra work you haven't agreed on, or other reasons. Make sure to always take screenshots of your conversations.
This video was a great reminder of things you've mentioned before. I'm currently working on a sample project where they've asked for changes, which is quite discouraging and strains what could have been a mutually beneficial relationship.
yeah..., it's rough out here but you'll work your way up. just keep it moving! fluctuations in motivation and confidence are normal. i feel somewhat discouraged most days but can usually break out of it. confidence comes from competence which comes from repetition!
Good advice, for new clients you haven't established a trusted relationship. Generally corporations etc. with more money are easier. Why? Because money is less precious for them. So yes it is easier for the artist. Sometime lower status client can present much more socially significant work & be a pain or easy to deal with. There is an old saying in the business... want to be treated like crap, work for free.
You know what's so disappointing to me is all of these things seem like common sense from the non art side. It's just good business to ensure that both parties have securities in a transaction and that successful work paid for means a better reputation on both ends. It's amazing though how many people are willing to hustle and scam and just change their tags to avoid consequences. Goes to show the idea of a business reputation really doesn't translate well to the internet. If only because it's so easy to be anonymous.
Thankyou for putting light on this topic! I wanted to know about clients who negotiate a lot, saying that it’s a startup and they don’t have enough funds. But they have good reach on social media and you’re kinda compromising thinking about the credit they’ll give you so that you get good reach through them lol. Is that a red flag too ?
Negotiating is okay as long as they're being respectful and taking you seriously. If they're using condescending language to try to devalue you, that's a different situation!
What I do is 50% up front and then after I’m done I send the final results with water marks over the top. This way they can see very well how it looks while still being unable to get the non watermarked version until they pay the second half.
I think thats mostly good, although its very easy to photoshop out watermarks nowadays, thats the only thing I'd be careful of. Unlikely that they'd do that, maybe I'm just paranoid 🤷♂️
I don't think that asking for sample work by it's self is a red flag. The style you may want work done in may not be a style the artist is good at. If the sample request is: Not used for free, in an art style that the artist hasn't proven themself in, and is truly a sample (rough work.) Then I would probably take that request, unless the other factors brought up were present. Thank you for making this though, I think your intentions are pure and there is real risk doing commissions.
Yeahh even then I don't think it's good. I had a client pay me for sample work once, but shopping around and asking people for free things before taking any upfront risk is not good business practice. Avoid Glad you got some useful stuff out of the vid though!
How'd you handle a client that is just never happy with any concepts/ revisions and insists, that as the designer, you should be the one impressing them and making them happy since they paid the 50% up front but "you're not delivering"? Had one client like this. Did the usual, 2-3 initial concepts with the aim of them choosing one to refine. That's how it had worked in the past with other clients. However, with this one, eventually just walked away after 42, yes, 42 different logo concepts! Learned a lot from it, including a very specific brief and contract, but curious about your thoughts on how to prevent/ handle this scenario again? Particularly, when they have paid 50% upfront but claim you're not meeting their expectations and so don't want to pay you any more money for your time, to make further new concepts, but at same time say you owe them because they've paid for something they're not happy with ! Thanks man
42 concepts is crazy. I'd recommend before your next client that you get it in writing or some verbal recording stating precisely what you will do and the number of designs/concepts and number... if any, revisions on that initial agreement that you will provide. At least that way you don't end up spending countless hours basically working for free
@@ArchiProcess Agree. Difficult part was when they pushed back with "but we are not satisfied with either of those first concepts so why should we pay more if you can't guarantee we'll be happy?". Major mistake and learning from that job was : THEY didn't have a clear vision of what they wanted in the first place. So a lot more Q's should have been asked of them before trying to meet their expectations by stabbing in the dark. Prevention is better than cure! However, that "we paid you 50% and you didn't satisfy, why should we pay more?" question is still a difficult one to know how to handle if it came up again. Any thoughts?
That's insane. Frankly I would have refunded them and moved on and taken it as a loss. I don't even want to support or help somebody that exploitative. No good person wants to work an artist that hard (unless you were paid extremely generously). It's bad business practice.
@@renderer You're right and no, they were barely paying an acceptable rate, certainly well below It with the incessant changes/ new designs. It was nearer the start of running a solo business, so felt obliged to make them happy (so they'd make referrals and give exposure etc.) but it certainly wasn't worth the stress. The refund idea did come to mind, but they were pushing the weight and costs to them of delaying their project already, so felt guilty that refunding/ walking away would delay them more, and honestly, was afraid they could the take a legal case because they'd miss their investment presentation deadline. But it just got so ridiculous it had to end, even if they decided to take a case. In hindsight, that was probably just another hollow threat, but it was scary to think you could be sued and your business go under.
At the end of the video you say " That's what > we < do here", as far as i can tell there's just you on screen, so who's this > We < you're referring to ?
You should definitely make videos that are micro specific about exactly how much to charge for what and how long you should be doing this with expectations for what income
I already made a video about exact what I charge. As for "how long until you can expect income", there is no normal. You can have sparse, low quality clients for years and then get connected with the right person and have your life changed in a day. Some people start 3D and make money within a few months. It's all so situational
I got so tired of pitching as no one would admit to their budget, but they wanted free work (trials etc). They wanted unrealistic outcomes based on clueless work apparently becoming Grammee Winnin' Hitz. I had to move to 100% upfront as people would run with the mp3 (or bitch at watermarks). The problem that the whole freelancer game has hit is that after a decade of Upjerk & Fiberr (sic) punishing more professional players to support incompetence (and outright stealing), Level 0 clients believe that unprofessionalism is professional and professionalism is being scammed. No one can win anymore. :-(
Yeah Fiverr and Upwork has definitely commoditized the industry like crazy. Fortunately there are levels to it and you just have to put the time in and meet the right people. Lots of clients refuse to use fiverr because it's so cheap and bad, and would rather find a qualified freelancer for more specialized work. Fiverr is a cheap solution but don't think that's all there is 🙏
@@renderer I did well at Airgigs for a year or so, but now the whole bottom seems to have fallen out of music mixing etc. in general. People won't even have a conversation so you can't work on anything. None of the posted jobs ever have a budget which seems to indicate they expect Thriller for $15 from mumbling at their iPhone 4, whilst on the lav. :-0
I watched until 0:40 and can say yeah, you don't even need to listen to the rest of the video. (No offense, I'm just using this as an example). Not to brag but last time I Googled myself I'm like 14th ranked artist on Fiverr (I use other sites, but just using this cause it's the only one that keeps that kind of metric). This is just to show my experience level at this point for what I'm about to point out to confirm what renderer is saying. If someone asks you to work for way below your rate, no matter how much you sympathize with them, no matter how bored you are, no matter how much you want to pad your reviews, don't take it, cause they're going to ask for the entire world for free. It will be so much frustration, it's not worth it at all. If they want to haggle you down below your rate, absolutely refuse no matter what. Just don't do it. The higher the pay, the better the client. End of story.
Yes, short raw videos are good even if 1 min. Had a difficult client recently and they probably thought I was the issue. Glad to be dropped. Also on me, I need to be clear about deadlines and not let them dictate a short turnaround.
I'm scared of posting this a little bit, I hope no one I know from work sees it but: My boss is exactly this manipulative type along with who asks for free samples from designers/photographers because according to her "it's the least they can do". These type of behaviors need to be recognized as soon as possible or you get stuck in an extremely underpaid position. As a beginner designer I've fallen for it and it's terribly hard to part ways -or ask for an acceptable raise- with a manipulative person. They will make you feel bad for even thinking of leaving. You are in the wrong no matter what. And if you still decide that no I will not stay, then according to them (well to mine at least) you haven't been able to uplift your energy/aura/spiritual self to work within their company. 🙂
Yeah that's bad, I'm sorry you've been subjected to that. Bringing spirituality into it when you're exploiting a designer is a different kind of crazy lmao
One quick question please answer. Suppoose i took 50% upfront after that when should we take rest 50% …before delivery of the project or after the delivery of the project. And how the client will trust us if we say i will give you the final project after you have made the rest of the payment…. And then again how can we trust the client if he or she says that I’ll pay you the rest of the amount after you deliver the project. PLEASE ANSWER!🛑🛑🛑
Send proof of completion (via low res screenshot or phone pic of screen, watermarks can easily be photoshopped out) and collect payment before sending the final over. You just need proof that it's done. Sending final copies too early may lead you to getting scammed
Though I'm a programmer, the things you mentioned are on point and you giving these solutions are super interesting. Can't wait to see you post more about this.
Hey bro i need a help can you review my portfolio i am game design student and currently i am looking for some internship can you review my portfolio that's mean a lot to me.
Hello! Just subscribed and I must say, your content is truly impressive! Should you ever require assistance with thumbnails, don't hesitate to reach out. I'm committed to ensuring your satisfaction and providing top-notch support. Excited about the opportunity to collaborate and elevate your channel! I'm more than happy to share my portfolio to showcase my skills. Keep up the great work!
Someday I will be one of the most important pencil drawing artist in the world and social media I will be my own boss fuck it, no contracts no submission no nothing, my work my money, my believes stays as they are, so I am going to be the best patreon to a lot of artist who are real to their principles (Edit, Blue B @danielj_osoc) try to remember my name, you will see me in months maybe, before finishing this year maybe, I can't find the work material in my country, special paper It's scarce now and I made a mistake taking more responsibilities (Jack of all trades, master of none - el que mucho abarca, poco aprieta) but I am talented af I am an eye-hand pencil PRINTER since 2006 when I was 6 years old...
My dear fellow artists, SIGN CONTRACTS!
AND - Ensure your phased payments are included in a scope of work document and in the contract.
i just watermark it
I will never do an unpaid art test ever again.
Did it once, spent a week on the assignment.
Didn't get the job. Waste of time.
Your portfolio is enough for a good AD.
Hell yeah! Don't let these people walk all over you, your art is worth so much more. Have a good night
Sample art is like that one canon event every artist has to go through only to realise the hard way to never do it again.
The difference between low-paying and high-paying behaviour of clients is honestly insane. I had two gigs on Fiverr. One was expensive (I’ve been doing that for years, and I’m very professional at it), the other was cheap (I don’t have the right equipment or experience to do this professionally, but some quick easy jobs can definitely be done). The difference of people was SCARY. Expensive gig was always professional, cheap gig was mostly the worst clients you can imagine. I closed the gig for this reason, wasn’t worth it.
Poor casuals act very casually
@@MALICEM12 I don’t mind casual. I mind rude.
@@davidstehlik5365 fair enough
50% upfront was the best thing I learnt early, just about impossible to get scammed. Thanks for spending your time to help others as always Spencer
I'm not an artist, but I think what you're saying you want to do on this channel is extremely important. Any entrepreneur (and an artist is also an entrepreneur) must know how to manage the financial aspect as well.
My father (who worked in another sector and wasn't an artist, but difficult clients are always the same, and it's very true what you say that those who pay the most also expect the least) used to tell clients asking for free samples, 'I am a merchant, not a bank. If you want something, you pay for it. I can't afford to spend time and money now in the hope that someday you'll pay me back.
Make your portfolio best of the best. Make it as attractive and appealing as you can. Prefer both quality and quantity. Work in the most efficient way possible. Don't work hard but be smart. Consider that your energy, you're putting into a project, and your skills are valuable.
As a freelancer trying to break into the mid-level, having a few years of this, I'd like to add the following:
You can't be afraid to make mistakes, but only as long as you can assure you're doing your best at all times.
If you're serious about it - would rather be in charge of yourself instead of collecting steady paychecks - you're going to have to put in the hours. It's going to be discouraging, you're going to put yourself in positions you're going to look back and cringe in the future, but the potential payoff is very enticing.
In the end, it all comes back to what makes sense to YOU as an individual, the only non-variable is the required skill to weigh what your qualities are and lean on them to get you where you want to be. You can only truly stand out if you're true to yourself, imo.
Good luck everyone!
I’m a a digital artist. Been doing it for an about 3 years. These tips are 100% true. The best way I work is asking for full payment up front.
That's great too!
Dude full payment up front. That's the ticket right there. 50% is good but its not good enough.
I liked this short vid, and the tip! I found this as well. I sell products and it’s never paid off to send any samples, even when they put them in front of their audience as give aways because this ultimately attracts people who’re just looking for freebies.
here's my tip: if a studio wants to work with you, they should give you a contract. not 'in a week' or 'next month' - the contract's never coming. it's not 'still being translated' and it's not fine to do the work anyway. they're gonna rip you off sooner or later.
Another tip for artists, do not describe what you will do with what you offer. The only reason i say this is due to the use of AI. I know, it sucks but because AI exists, just what you described can be used as a prompt. I'm no artists but as someone who has seen artists struggle and who is friends with artists, i have to put that out there for you. Do not describe what you offer and yeah, like Renderer said, don't offer samples. Stay safe out there everyone.
Banger for artists, excelent tips, thank you. The low resolution thing is genius and getting testimonials from the start is huge tip.
Yeah, I'll be subscribing to see more business minded stuff regarding pursuing art as a career. Personally, I'm pretty illiterate when it comes to the business side of art, just like most people, and whenever I try to find any videos or tips or anything from other artists there tends to be a lot of runaround and no straight answers. It's the most irritating thing
more tips like this please. loved how straight forward this was no beating around the bush. but tbh this def relieved more of my stress with where I am because I'm still goin in 6 yrs deep and have still not found a way out but I have been pushing through the best I can.
I just found you through this video and appreciate it so much! These are definitely important things for people to look out for…..and I do like this format. Keep up the awesome work!!
love the content you create man, you're killing it
We've been waiting for a while and here it is 🔥🔥🔥
The company took my "sample work" and straight up stole it. Lesson learned.
Sorry to hear that.. Will only happen once I'm sure 🤷♂️
Funny how this seems to be an universal pattern, no matter in what field you are working in
Being a freelance graphic designer in India, I too have faced such clients who either ask for sample work or hesitate paying upfront. Thankyou so much for the crisp yet insightful video! Definitely following these tips with new clients from now on 👍🏻
I worked for so many people for free cuz they begged me... and one of them got famous after a year and he contacted me and recommended me in his channel. Building network is too important too. Being scared and not trusting abundance is a huge red flage for any upcoming artist + business man😊
Babe wake up, new Renderer video just came out!
Short and RAW info has been amazing to receive. Thanks for making this 🐱🎨
just what I needed to hear. love these rid-bits
This helps out a ton! Thanks so much!
Good content. Glad the algorithm blessed me with this. Subbed !
Thanks for this, learned a lot 👍🏽
Thank you so much for not making this one tip half an hour long for the ads, you're an mvp 🙏
I also struggle to make videos under the pressure of it must be amazing and useful and then the time required means I never make anything. This was very valuable even in this raw format and encouraging for me to see. simple videos are fine, just reminding people you still exist.
Poor people will question your intentions, like you're trying to rob them.
This was useful. Thank you!
I learned to watermark my work until I get paid and when my contract is signed. If they decide to NOT give me anything until the deadline, they will have the video with the watermark and I get a nice free portfolio piece. :))
I once applied and got interviewed for a job in the game graphics industry. For the next step in my applying process this rather new company wanted me to make a sample logo for them. I felt conflicted by it in the moment - while I feel they might want to see and test how fast I can work in the creative field according to their wishes, BUT I also was extremely hesitant to make them a potential logo all for free. I didn't end up doing it or even wanting the job after that.
Yeah that's kind of suspicious. Portfolio should be just fine
“My art is NOT a piece of CHEESE!”😆🤣 I am DYING. #nosamples
yeah man stand your ground!!!
i think a lot of new artists don't ask for 50% upfront (or anything upfront) because they aren't confident in themselves yet - at least this is true for me. I still feel like, oh shit what if I take their money and then I can't meet the standards/quality they expect. that's such hard personal hurdle to get over honestly.
you can do 30/40/30 as well, we did it for longer projects in marketing
this way you end up with 70% before finishing the project and client feels more safe than paying 50%
Totally understand. I've taken 50% upfront before, realized that the project was a bit out of reach, and then refunded it later. Moving with confidence even if you're not feeling that way is always a good plan. Good luck!
You are a GOD Send its so true that we need business guidance more now
great message, thx
to the point, great vid and tips.
had to learn this the hard way and can confirm it's 100% all facts.
Thank you for this video!
Although this does help, even some high paying clients can be secretly unhinged and may try to gaslight you on social media: if they want you to do extra work you haven't agreed on, or other reasons. Make sure to always take screenshots of your conversations.
Yeah try to get written agreements of everything. Contracts solve this too
Learned a lot from this video. Thanks.
Great info, TY!
Absolutely wild on this timing! I have learnt that no contract means no work from me. Even if I'm broke and desperate. Amazing video as always!
great points 👏👏
Love this!
Loved it!
This video was a great reminder of things you've mentioned before. I'm currently working on a sample project where they've asked for changes, which is quite discouraging and strains what could have been a mutually beneficial relationship.
yeah..., it's rough out here but you'll work your way up. just keep it moving! fluctuations in motivation and confidence are normal. i feel somewhat discouraged most days but can usually break out of it. confidence comes from competence which comes from repetition!
Haha next video should discuss recognizing clients with unrealistic expectations or deadlines that kills so many artists in our industry!
Thank you for the tips
thank you my king
for all my game artists out there in the field. hang in there. it gets better at ~ 300-350€ per day.
Subscribed, I'm a composer but all of this information is gold to me. Thank you very much and God bless you.
Amazing and valuable video. Great
Short videos is where it’s at unless it’s a tutorial with commentary.
you are 100% right. Sample work does not work at all and you have explained that quite well.
Another great informative video. I think it would be really helpful if you made an in-depth video on how to do rates/ pricing for clients. Thanks man
I have a pretty recent vid about that but it might be good to update it soon!
Good advice, for new clients you haven't established a trusted relationship. Generally corporations etc. with more money are easier. Why? Because money is less precious for them. So yes it is easier for the artist. Sometime lower status client can present much more socially significant work & be a pain or easy to deal with. There is an old saying in the business... want to be treated like crap, work for free.
Sample work? It's called a portfolio! 😂
Also do not send detailed proposals without naming a price/range first and getting some type of response to it. Time saver!
You know what's so disappointing to me is all of these things seem like common sense from the non art side. It's just good business to ensure that both parties have securities in a transaction and that successful work paid for means a better reputation on both ends.
It's amazing though how many people are willing to hustle and scam and just change their tags to avoid consequences. Goes to show the idea of a business reputation really doesn't translate well to the internet. If only because it's so easy to be anonymous.
Thankyou for putting light on this topic! I wanted to know about clients who negotiate a lot, saying that it’s a startup and they don’t have enough funds. But they have good reach on social media and you’re kinda compromising thinking about the credit they’ll give you so that you get good reach through them lol. Is that a red flag too ?
Negotiating is okay as long as they're being respectful and taking you seriously. If they're using condescending language to try to devalue you, that's a different situation!
Make more videos like this bro
GYATTTTT
Even when I did do samples, I watermarked the entire footage/picture so they wouldn't be able to use it at all
What I do is 50% up front and then after I’m done I send the final results with water marks over the top.
This way they can see very well how it looks while still being unable to get the non watermarked version until they pay the second half.
I think thats mostly good, although its very easy to photoshop out watermarks nowadays, thats the only thing I'd be careful of. Unlikely that they'd do that, maybe I'm just paranoid 🤷♂️
I don't think that asking for sample work by it's self is a red flag. The style you may want work done in may not be a style the artist is good at.
If the sample request is: Not used for free, in an art style that the artist hasn't proven themself in, and is truly a sample (rough work.) Then I would probably take that request, unless the other factors brought up were present.
Thank you for making this though, I think your intentions are pure and there is real risk doing commissions.
Yeahh even then I don't think it's good. I had a client pay me for sample work once, but shopping around and asking people for free things before taking any upfront risk is not good business practice. Avoid
Glad you got some useful stuff out of the vid though!
How'd you handle a client that is just never happy with any concepts/ revisions and insists, that as the designer, you should be the one impressing them and making them happy since they paid the 50% up front but "you're not delivering"? Had one client like this. Did the usual, 2-3 initial concepts with the aim of them choosing one to refine. That's how it had worked in the past with other clients. However, with this one, eventually just walked away after 42, yes, 42 different logo concepts! Learned a lot from it, including a very specific brief and contract, but curious about your thoughts on how to prevent/ handle this scenario again? Particularly, when they have paid 50% upfront but claim you're not meeting their expectations and so don't want to pay you any more money for your time, to make further new concepts, but at same time say you owe them because they've paid for something they're not happy with ! Thanks man
42 concepts is crazy. I'd recommend before your next client that you get it in writing or some verbal recording stating precisely what you will do and the number of designs/concepts and number... if any, revisions on that initial agreement that you will provide. At least that way you don't end up spending countless hours basically working for free
@@ArchiProcess Agree. Difficult part was when they pushed back with "but we are not satisfied with either of those first concepts so why should we pay more if you can't guarantee we'll be happy?". Major mistake and learning from that job was : THEY didn't have a clear vision of what they wanted in the first place. So a lot more Q's should have been asked of them before trying to meet their expectations by stabbing in the dark. Prevention is better than cure! However, that "we paid you 50% and you didn't satisfy, why should we pay more?" question is still a difficult one to know how to handle if it came up again. Any thoughts?
That's insane. Frankly I would have refunded them and moved on and taken it as a loss. I don't even want to support or help somebody that exploitative. No good person wants to work an artist that hard (unless you were paid extremely generously). It's bad business practice.
@@renderer You're right and no, they were barely paying an acceptable rate, certainly well below It with the incessant changes/ new designs. It was nearer the start of running a solo business, so felt obliged to make them happy (so they'd make referrals and give exposure etc.) but it certainly wasn't worth the stress. The refund idea did come to mind, but they were pushing the weight and costs to them of delaying their project already, so felt guilty that refunding/ walking away would delay them more, and honestly, was afraid they could the take a legal case because they'd miss their investment presentation deadline. But it just got so ridiculous it had to end, even if they decided to take a case. In hindsight, that was probably just another hollow threat, but it was scary to think you could be sued and your business go under.
Limit the numbers of revisions. 2-3 is more than enough.
At the end of the video you say " That's what > we < do here", as far as i can tell there's just you on screen, so who's this > We < you're referring to ?
You should definitely make videos that are micro specific about exactly how much to charge for what and how long you should be doing this with expectations for what income
I already made a video about exact what I charge. As for "how long until you can expect income", there is no normal. You can have sparse, low quality clients for years and then get connected with the right person and have your life changed in a day. Some people start 3D and make money within a few months. It's all so situational
@@renderer ok thnx will watch
@@renderer 3D as in..? Srry if I'm missing...
@@CodyMcGriff Hey yeah this channel originated for only 3D artists, I forgot that a lot more different types of artists are on here now lol
nice
Dont make emotional choices.god i wish someone has said that to me a few years back XD
I got so tired of pitching as no one would admit to their budget, but they wanted free work (trials etc). They wanted unrealistic outcomes based on clueless work apparently becoming Grammee Winnin' Hitz. I had to move to 100% upfront as people would run with the mp3 (or bitch at watermarks). The problem that the whole freelancer game has hit is that after a decade of Upjerk & Fiberr (sic) punishing more professional players to support incompetence (and outright stealing), Level 0 clients believe that unprofessionalism is professional and professionalism is being scammed. No one can win anymore. :-(
Yeah Fiverr and Upwork has definitely commoditized the industry like crazy. Fortunately there are levels to it and you just have to put the time in and meet the right people. Lots of clients refuse to use fiverr because it's so cheap and bad, and would rather find a qualified freelancer for more specialized work. Fiverr is a cheap solution but don't think that's all there is 🙏
@@renderer I did well at Airgigs for a year or so, but now the whole bottom seems to have fallen out of music mixing etc. in general. People won't even have a conversation so you can't work on anything. None of the posted jobs ever have a budget which seems to indicate they expect Thriller for $15 from mumbling at their iPhone 4, whilst on the lav. :-0
I watched until 0:40 and can say yeah, you don't even need to listen to the rest of the video. (No offense, I'm just using this as an example).
Not to brag but last time I Googled myself I'm like 14th ranked artist on Fiverr (I use other sites, but just using this cause it's the only one that keeps that kind of metric). This is just to show my experience level at this point for what I'm about to point out to confirm what renderer is saying.
If someone asks you to work for way below your rate, no matter how much you sympathize with them, no matter how bored you are, no matter how much you want to pad your reviews, don't take it, cause they're going to ask for the entire world for free. It will be so much frustration, it's not worth it at all. If they want to haggle you down below your rate, absolutely refuse no matter what.
Just don't do it. The higher the pay, the better the client. End of story.
Yes, short raw videos are good even if 1 min. Had a difficult client recently and they probably thought I was the issue. Glad to be dropped. Also on me, I need to be clear about deadlines and not let them dictate a short turnaround.
I'm scared of posting this a little bit, I hope no one I know from work sees it but:
My boss is exactly this manipulative type along with who asks for free samples from designers/photographers because according to her "it's the least they can do". These type of behaviors need to be recognized as soon as possible or you get stuck in an extremely underpaid position. As a beginner designer I've fallen for it and it's terribly hard to part ways -or ask for an acceptable raise- with a manipulative person. They will make you feel bad for even thinking of leaving. You are in the wrong no matter what. And if you still decide that no I will not stay, then according to them (well to mine at least) you haven't been able to uplift your energy/aura/spiritual self to work within their company. 🙂
Yeah that's bad, I'm sorry you've been subjected to that. Bringing spirituality into it when you're exploiting a designer is a different kind of crazy lmao
like it, thanks
I don't have a portfolio yet and I'm not sure how to make one I'm actually confident in
I have a video about portfolios! th-cam.com/video/1NmQsyjOlps/w-d-xo.html
One quick question please answer.
Suppoose i took 50% upfront after that when should we take rest 50% …before delivery of the project or after the delivery of the project. And how the client will trust us if we say i will give you the final project after you have made the rest of the payment…. And then again how can we trust the client if he or she says that I’ll pay you the rest of the amount after you deliver the project.
PLEASE ANSWER!🛑🛑🛑
Send proof of completion (via low res screenshot or phone pic of screen, watermarks can easily be photoshopped out) and collect payment before sending the final over.
You just need proof that it's done. Sending final copies too early may lead you to getting scammed
@@renderer thank you 👍🏻
So, cold reaching is worth trying right ?
Yes, for sure...if you have done your homework and make the pitch focused with clear benefits.
Yes definitely that's how I started
Tryna fuck @@porthmeor1
What about fiverr and upwork?does they provide trusted clients
Don't use either of those. Extremely cheap and commoditized. I have a video that goes into more detail th-cam.com/video/TvYqGpIwzx4/w-d-xo.html
Though I'm a programmer, the things you mentioned are on point and you giving these solutions are super interesting. Can't wait to see you post more about this.
!!
Can i work with you
Sample=slavery
You might as well be on 99 designs if they are that unprofessional
Hey bro i need a help can you review my portfolio i am game design student and currently i am looking for some internship can you review my portfolio that's mean a lot to me.
You can drop it in the portfolios channel in my Discord server! discord.com/invite/AW5SWXUa6Z
Hello! Just subscribed and I must say, your content is truly impressive! Should you ever require assistance with thumbnails, don't hesitate to reach out. I'm committed to ensuring your satisfaction and providing top-notch support. Excited about the opportunity to collaborate and elevate your channel! I'm more than happy to share my portfolio to showcase my skills. Keep up the great work!
Someday I will be one of the most important pencil drawing artist in the world and social media I will be my own boss fuck it, no contracts no submission no nothing, my work my money, my believes stays as they are, so I am going to be the best patreon to a lot of artist who are real to their principles
(Edit, Blue B @danielj_osoc) try to remember my name, you will see me in months maybe, before finishing this year maybe, I can't find the work material in my country, special paper It's scarce now and I made a mistake taking more responsibilities (Jack of all trades, master of none - el que mucho abarca, poco aprieta) but I am talented af I am an eye-hand pencil PRINTER since 2006 when I was 6 years old...