For those who are still confused at what happened: Somebody hacked into the Japanese air defense network after rogue Japanese aircraft attacked Tokyo, sending a flight of fake F-16Js (callsign Wyvern) from Misawa in northern Japan. Obviously everybody's on edge and they have no idea what's going on so they treat it like a real threat. Central Air Defense dispatches two flights of F-15s-Wizard 03 and Priest 21-to intercept. Wizard arrives at "Wyvern's" position first but they have no idea where Wyvern is. The hackers then spoof Wizard's transponders to 7700 (emergency) to make it seem like they've been shot down, but they're actually still flying. Wizard's comms have been jammed so they can't communicate anything back to command, and now air defense radars think that Wizard is Wyvern. With Wizard unreachable, Central Air Defense tasks Priest 21 to intercept "Wyvern," now heading towards Tokyo. Priest 21 closes with "Wyvern" but Wizard breaks through the jamming and announces that they're still alive. Wyvern never existed and the JASDF almost had a case of blue on blue. TLDR: Wyvern never existed except as a fake blip on radar.
I think that's the point that Mover is trying to make. There is no blip on the radar, so you'd actually declare "clean" if you were the F-15s on station. There several different sensors all acting independently, a hacker cannot jam or hack them all. The best they could do is hack the infrastructures (which they did, via the BADGE system) but the F-15 coms operate on a completely separate multi channel anti spoof module. It's it's own transponder unit within the airplane, all mil-std systems are separate on the aircraft like this and have usually 2 to 3 redundancy systems. The Radar can broadcast, the transponder module can broadcast, the SATCOM link can broad cast, there's multiple systems to switch too, making it virtually impossible for any one to some how "HACK" an entire air force. The way the movie portrayed it is probably the only viable and most intelligent route to do this. You don't hack the fighters, the chances of doing that are slim especially since you may blind one system but another independent system will bypass that issue. If you want to cause a friendly fire incident to show up the military and scare the public with it; you hack Ops back on the ground and spoof their systems in such a way that you hope two flights are scrambled to intercept. You can than repeat what the film does and you described - you spoof Ops / Control back on the ground so that their screens give them the false information and rely bogus commands to the flights in the hopes that the outsider causes a train wreck in the sky. Minus some unrealistic points that Mover himself pointed out (since he would know); the scene is actually rather damned gripping and very good. I liked it, to be honest.
@@Nurhaal I forget what it was in the movie, but in modern terms, it's possible with a frequency jammer, a drone, and then a secondary drone to do the spoof signals back in their stead(first drone latches onto plane, starts all freq jammer+, second drone is safe distance back, sends back the spoof signals once the jammer activates, then pace or get out of dodge before 2nd intercept happens & let the internal fake signal be all that's left. In clip example, finally breaking through the jamming would be the attached drone falling off, leaving no trace. Both stayed jammed because they were in pattern within range to each other. So only one needed to be attached to. At least that's the only way I could see that working to create roaming dead spots of all frequencies. B/c the problem with drones for that, the second an all Freq Jammer is on, you don't have control of it anymore. So you'd have to know the exact of each component, to then use a a diff to maintain your own control. The only other solution to losing your own signal too, is to have a way to attach to your target before activating it. But then, as the clip showed, you risk the target at those speeds & air friction, to maintain contact with your device? It'll fall off after roughly 10-20 minutes if not much less.) Within the confines of the movie, it is set a few years ahead of today, it'd be pretty basic to do if they were aware of all the redundancy systems...(Spoiler: The movie antagonist is, as having been former military themselves, so they had intimate knowledge about how the entire network & each individual system worked to do this very thing. Context matters.)
@@DevHawk I think its that the fake blip gets removed and put on the actual fighter so no need to fake of the second aircraft just use the actual aircraft and just flag them as the enemy aircraft. now it would look odd if the pilots had decided to move eastwards away from the mainland as that might had thrown a wrench into the baddies plan. remember 1970ish movie set 20 min into the future. like they still in 2050 or when this movie is set still uses coins, vhs tape (when out in late 1990 early 2000).
Anime was released in 1991 but it was set in near future (2010s I guess?) so all the equipment in the show are futuristic version of current equipment. The show features armored robots..
It was set in a futuristic vision of 2002, it wasn't even that far off from the time the movie was made so technology was envisioned to be already slightly more advanced in this movie.
The Patlabor saries was made in the late 80s/early 90s. its meant to take place around that same time, its world being mostly the same as ours with the only difference being mechas are as prevalent as cars or boats
The 'Wyvern' Flight are Mitsubishi F-2 'Viper Zero' from 1993 (corrected), when the film was made. The film is definitely Anime For Grownups, much recommended. The 'Wizard' and 'Priest' flights are imagined F-15EJ Kai, upgraded with stealth trailing edges & F-15 SMTD systems basically. The JASDF uses English for their A2A, in case of combined ops with USAF and USN. CIF are JASDF IFF. Comms are very JASDF correct ! F-2's tend to carry IR AAM only (Fox-2). The high-level Jamming is a major plot point in the rest of the film, btw. With thanks for the review, much appreciated.
IR AAM is fox2, but other wise yes. In the initial recording, they got an actual JASDF ground controller to do it. It sounds a little different (and is also available on YT) but they got her to more or less outline the basic procedure The rest is pretty much a conceit to make the plot of the film happen.
@@lawleokatsushika4621 Which is why in the movie they are called F-16J, the F-2 hasn't been in service but it was highly likely that some way or form the JSDF were gonna adopt it for their use.
Patlabor, by itself was a 'Cops with Industrial 'Mechs' dealing with a universe were powered industrial armor and Industrial 'mechs was a thing (and the second movie was specifically about the nebulous nature of Japan's Industrial Complex, which is why is far more chatty). I enjoyed the movies when i seen them in the late 90's but my thing was (always) Macross...
Patlabor movies: Deep political and philosophical discussion. Patlabor TV series: Light-hearted slapstick comedy about a Tokyo mechanized police unit. Think Brooklyn Nine-Nine but with police mecha.
@@mmmoendo If you're not japanese or didn't view it with some knowledge of japanese politics I'm sure you'd just see it as a slow moving political drama. The movie, I'd say, is somewhat "deep." It uses a futuristic setting to reflect on the current state of the Japanese SDF, the role of such a military force, the legality, and the feelings of its members. It does also include some discussion on whether it is justified to remain peaceful in a world where there is war and suffering everywhere which Japan could help to stop. This is basically the basis of the plot. A JSDF official whose unit was slaughtered as part of the UN Peace Keeping force in Cambodia in the 90s plots a series of terrorist attacks against infrastructure and military targets to show its people how unprepared their military is during the peacetime. Thus in doing so he also shows why his men were slaughtered. If you read some of what Japanese critics thought I think you'll see why the movie is so highly acclaimed.
@@mmmoendo it is pretty deep compared to the vast majority of vapid anime out there. Unjust peace, just war, the state of the JSDF at the time, the feelings of the Japanese towards war and foreign military interventions....
Next Generation Patlabor live action: even more absurd slapstick slice of life comedy ...until episode 12 where it drops all the comedy and becomes a prologe for the sequel to Patlabor 2 movie. Then it continues to Next Generation Patlabor: Tokyo War (Grey Ghost) where it becomes a full blown sequel to Patlabor 2 Movie.
I have yet to find something more hilarious than that episode where they chase a crocodile through the sewers. Ironically, the director of that episode is the same guy who directed this movie (and ghost in the shell)
@@origirindra1590wait what. I had no idea there is any of that. I really need to watch this. Thanks so much. I love the patlabor franchise and especially the second movie
I'm a little fuzzy on it because it's been quite a few years, but the general gist of the story is a disgruntled former SDF member used a series of terrorist attacks and hacks to manipulate the military and the government into thinking there was going to be a coup. He was able to do that because of his intimate personal experience with the systems and politics involved. He wanted the civilian population to experience the reality of Japan's military first hand, it ties into a lot of Japan's political situation and the frustration their service members had at the time it was released.
Yeah, most of the Patlabor movies were political dramas. I believe the SDF member's main grievance was that his Labor unit was doing peacekeeping operations, and they were attacked. Due to the political situation at the time, they needed authorization to even return fire. By the time he got it, the unit took heavy casualties; he might have even been the sole survivor. He saw the peace that Japan had enjoyed made the civilian population completely ignorant to the realities of war & affairs abroad in general, hence the attempted coup by the SDF.
To explain a bit about the context of the aircraft shown in the movie: Both the "F-16J" and the F-15s with canards shown were 1990s Japan's idea of what stealth fighters would look like because at the time the movie was being developed (1989-1991) the ATF competition was still undercover and nobody in the writing team had seen the YF-22. The reason that Wyvern was EXPECTED to be undetectable by Wizard is because, well, they were stealth planes. Similarly, it was expected that Wyvern would be just as blind. The military ATC in this entire scene was actually tracking Wyvern's identifying transmitters, not their actual radar contact. That's where the "Wyvern" name came from to begin with; it was a flight of the JASDF 8th squadron. That's also why they kept trying to contact Wyvern. These weren't bandits but the JASDF's own planes flying unauthorized, and the JASDF didn't want to engage right away BECAUSE they could still track Wyvern through their own transmissions, meaning the pilots didn't take steps to silence their planes and the whole thing could have been just an honest mistake or some sort of stupid malfunction. The whole situation flipped when Wizard was thought to have been shot down and all contact lost. What actually happened was that false data was fed to the BADGE system causing the system to manifest a ghost Wyvern flight to lure Wizard to fly on top of a high altitude blimp fitted with jamming equipment. Wizard then got jammed and lost contact, and the hacked BADGE system switched Wizard's identifiers for Wyvern's. The "Wyvern" that ATC was tracking after that point was actually Wizard. That's why Priest was able to track "Wyvern" after that point, because by then the physically real Wizard flight was the one they were tracking. EDIT: Almost forgot. Within the context of this movie, it was already established earlier on that the F-16J was VERY stealthy, probably more so than the F-15s. An attack was perpetrated against a major bridge in Tokyo by a JASDF F-16J that flew completely undetected and was only identified through a short video footage of the event.
@@narindrakrisnamurti4129 Yes. Wyvern was not real up until Wizard merged with the shadow. Then Wizard became tagged as Wyvern, at which point there was a physical presence that Priest could track. The "Wyvern" that showed up on BADGE after Wizard was thought to have been shot down is actually Wizard.
Speaking of the lost in translation thing. I'm a crewchief on UH60 Blackhawks. I watched an anime called Rescue Wings, about a Japanese Coast Guard UH60 crew There was a scene of the startup sequence they do for running up the aircraft, I found absolutely correct. They even say the whole checklist in English. But the subtitles had translated everything completely wrong lol. Things like "gust lock" would be subtitled "gas lock." Which should be out on startup, but they translated the "out" to "on." Just a case of the subtitle team being unfamiliar with technical terms. Something that 99.9999 percent of the audience would not have caught. But being that I have conducted hundreds of run ups and listened to the checklist thousands of times, It immediately threw a flag when what I was reading didn't correlate with what was actually being said.
The Comm is an idiosyncrasy of requiring them to speak in English for intercepts while most pilots of the era this was made only really knew aviation English. When interviewed about the sequence, they said they basically sat down with a JSDF ground controller for the comm procedure for an intercept and had them do the initial recording. Having to do an intercept in what amounts to a foreign language is awkward.
A friend of mine who worked at NORAD for a while with the Canadians said that while there's a lot of differences in precise comms, the basic drama of the scene where you have a time pressure between information and intercepts is accurate from a ground control PoV
SIF stands for Selective Identification Feature and old term. SIF is basically a selective identification feature added to older IFF systems. Newer IFF systems have a SIF feature built in. The SIF system allows for the identification of individual aircraft rather than just whether it is Friend or Foe.
As I recall, it's not that Wyvern was jamming so heavily that Wizard couldn't see them, it was actually that Wyvern didn't exist at all, and Wizard didn't get shot down, just merged with Wyvern's "shadow" at the SOC when they got close enough. The whole thing was a cyber attack and once Wizard 03 merged with Wyvern, it gave Wyvern a physical presence. I have no idea if this is possible or not, but I believe that is what was going on in this scene.
Yeah by the looks of it the Japanese Air Defense/ATC network got hijacked. First they created fake detections for inbound F-16Js, then flagged the real Wizard team detections as hostile and removed the fake detections in order to try and get Priest to shoot Wizard down. The jamming in question would probably just have to be Wizard's comms to prevent them from calling in while supposedly dead.
In case people don't know Patlabor is a somewhat realistic slice-of-life, police procedural mecha anime about a police mech division called SV2, mechs are called "Labors" here and they're widely used for construction. The division is basically a dumping ground for the Tokyo police (like Major Crimes Unit in The Wire), they have colourful characters from razor sharp people that the top brass aren't exactly fond of like Goto, the guy in the orange vest in the aquarium, to boneheads like Ohta. The comedy comes from how dysfunctional they are and the fact that they're always broke because fixing Labors with a full maintenance squad isn't cheap. Patlabor 2 is a hard turn from the usual comedic tone and takes a darker and more nationalistic spiel but it's the best of the series IMO, Oshii is just a great director. Every entry in the series is worth watching, give it a try
The movies are definitely not "slice of life", they're very surreal. The third movie was made by a different director and is itself very different than the first two (and not as good).
Oh nice, Patlabor 2 is my favourite Japanese animated film of all time! Such gorgeous cinematography, mature storyline, and detailed animation. Great to see your take on this scene!
@@projectplight Hm, not really, but it helps. Basically, 'Labors' are bipedal machines people operate to do things like construction work and military operations. Patlabors are 'patrol labors' - bipedal machines used in a police force to stop crime where Labors are used. The first film has a lot more Patlabor / labor related action, but Patlabor 2 is quite different. This film is mostly about a terrorist trying to invoke a war, and the concept of instigating war in a country that cannot, due to American peacekeeping rules after WWII. There is a bit of Labor action at the end of it, but its mostly slow monologues, political scenes and tension / drama. For a film based on an '80s series about giant robots, It's not a very 'anime' film at all. It was directed by the same guy who did Ghost In The Shell movie, and his films are usually very slow, cerebral and philosophical. It works well as its own film without much prior knowledge.
@@andrewhickinbottom1051 Yeah, this one's very specifically about a time period when the Cold War had ended and it wasn't particularly clear what the JSDF was even going to be _for_ anymore.
It's neat that the tension in this scene works whether you assume that everything's as it seems, or whether you (correctly) suspect that Priest is about to shoot down Wizard, relabelled as Wyvern.
Director Mamoru Oshii's works are masterpieces, but I was only one of the members of the Patlabor Project. That is why there are many old fans who are dissatisfied with the fact that the film version has been stripped of the comical aspects of the manga and TV series, and the philosophical and anti-government sentiments of Director Oshii have been extremely emphasized.
I think the most accurate thing was that nothing happened. You can do whatever you want, have 500 squadrons all having at it with supernuke missiles and they just had a slightly non standard intercept.
Back when anime was really good and the creators used to do research into actual information from what they were using. The hacking part is viable because almost no system is a closed system. Even when "closed" systems exist there are a plethora of ways to exploit that. You can see that from the real world with some nuclear facilities that got hacked.
Read an article years ago where a Las Vegas casino got hacked and several million dollars stolen from them. Turns out, the hacker found an unsecured heater in a fish tank that was on Wifi and used that to get in.
Mamoru Oshii wrote and directed many of the best animated movies of the past three decades: Jin-Roh the wolf brigade, Ghost in the Shell, Angel's Egg, and of course, Patlabor 1 and 2, among several others. No live-action adaptation will ever do them justice, although, the Korean adaptation of Jin-Roh is quite good.
I'm beginning to see Anime as three different things all called the same name. There's this stuff here, Japan's output during the 80s and 90s Then there's today's stuff, which just seems really odd compared the first. Then there's Ghibli, Ghibli is Ghibli just like Disney is Disney.
@@MostlyPennyCat It’s not quite accurate to divide this stuff by decade, they had the weirder stuff back in the 80s and 90s, it just didn’t have the same staying power overseas as Patlabor, ghost in the shell, etc.
If no one has pointed it out, (I'm sure they have but :) ) it is "pat" "labor" or "Patrol Labor" "Labors" are the large mechanical suits used in the movies and series whereas the "Patrol" portion is due to the story following a group of Police Labors or "patrols" Patlabor 2 the movie came out in 1993 btw so "91" isn't that long ago for them :)
These F15s looked like F15S/MTD. They're the only model/prototype with those canards and you can also spot the rectangular 2D nozzle. Why Japan would have them in this, I have no clue. They look cool and that's the only reason needed for anime.
@@bearxd780 Which is obviously based on the F-15S/MTD (f-15 base + canards), as well as some influences from the F-22 (canted vertical stabs and nozzles).
The comms are pretty realistic and to Japanese standards. It would make sense for the plot with super hackers. It’s is doable, in theory, IRL, but we’ve yet to seen this pulled off.
The big point of this scene is that the central SOC clears to fire without response from the Defence Chief, which is something they need to do in JP or something. 4:40 Which is kind of non sensical and the point the villain in the show is trying to prove.
And it is so because in first scene of the film villains colleagues were killed bc they werent cleared to fire. Damn, I only realized this after seeing your comment, so many layers
@@yaremer Yes, not only does he create an action scene with just dialogues, Oshii debates his political views on the appeal of pacifism and it's impracticality, whilst being consistsant with the motives of the characters. What a genius.
Those whom have not watched the Patlabor 2, the film is a brilliant spy thriller set in the Patlabor franchise. While seeing the rest of the franchise is nice. Patlabor is self contained enough that one can watch the film without knowing about the rest of the franchise.
Lemme provide some comments about this scene. So before the scene where Mover reviewed, there are allegations that a rogue F-16 (F-2) was the perpretrator of the bridge bombing occured in the opening of the movie, so when the three-ship formation of F-16s (Callsign Wyvern) shown on JASDF radar station, they thought there would be another attack and scramble bunch of F-15s (Callsign Wizard and Priest) to intercept them. Wyvern however, were fake, none actually flew in the air as the hacker able to manipulate JASDF's radar stations. Wizard unable to receive further comms and unaware that they're gone from the radar station due to an aircraft disguised as commercial blimp effectively jams them. And I believe, Priest locked Wizard because it flew nearly the same flight profile as Wyvern, leading Priest into thinking it was the hostile and this might be possible due to early F-15J doesn't have IFF module installed. Another possible scenario was that Priest able to lock Wyvern after provided by JASDF's hacked radar station data-link (F-15J has indigenous data link that works as a basic bidirectional link with the Japanese ground-controlled intercept network).
Actually in the story it isn't F-2, but F-16J (from what I remembered in the movie it's F-16 with canards), and this movie also released 2 years before F-2 first flight
@@faraway2217 If I recall, the F-16's modifications are specifically said to only be American during the video enhancement scene, that's how they know it was an American plane that attacked the bridge. F-16J is likely just because they knew at that point that they were adopting the F-16, but the "F-2" nomenclature hadn't been decided on yet. So the production team assumed it would be the American designation with a -J appended, much like their F-15 and F-4E variants.
The callsigns Wizard, Wyvern, Trebor, and Priest are all from an early computer game called Wizardry. (Trebor is creator Robert Woodhead’s name backwards. He went on to found an anime import/adaptation company called AnimEigo in the 80s, so there’s a symmetry to this scene.)
Well, sure they jammed it after hacking it, but the really important question here is: Was it Raspberry? And yes, the Japanese are a very top-down oriented country. I completely buy that a fighter pilot would be begging for orders if any tiny thing changed in a tactical situation. And the controllers would then also be calling their bosses for new orders, and so on up the chain of stupidity until it eventually hits someone with sufficient stars on his collar to actually make a decision about what to have for lunch.
Oshii Mamoru, who shot this movie, is a big Wizardry fan. Trebo, Priest, Wyvern, etc. are adopted from Wizardry. There is also an episode in the Patlabor TV series that pays homage to the game's exploration of underground labyrinths.
there are 2 other jet fighter related anime with some good scenes i'd recommend checking out Sentou Yousei Yukikaze (localized as: Battle Fairy Yukikaze) and Area 88 Yukikaze takes place in the future with wacky super-maneuverable aircraft and aliens, but still manages to keep quite a bit of realism Area 88 is much more grounded and has older jet aircraft
Probably a better one for Mover to check out would be Macross Zero, especially the F-14 scenes near the beginning of the first episode. He would probably be less interested in the Valkyrie/mecha combat scenes, such as the one that straddles episode 1 and 2.
Patlabor 2 is one of the handful of anime I would recommend anybody, even though the franchise is about giant robots policing unauthorized usage of giant robots, and AI going rogue and taking control of giant robots. This second film might as well have been live action with how it worked out, one of The Greats. For simply flying there's the 1980's Area 88 anime (not the remake) if you want something reminiscent of Iron Eagle (forget realism), it's got a serious piece of story around the main character and the world around him that seals the deal for me.
I believe the F-15s showcased here were a Research Variant of the F-15B called the F-15STOL/MTD which was given Canards to increase maneuverability as well as assist it on shorter takeoffs.
You called "not the best comms" but the female ATC voice actress from TREBOR was an actual former JSDF ATC at Misawa. The comms from WIZARD-03 was also a former JSDF fighter pilot, and they were both married + a friend of the Director of PATLABOR. So yeah, theyre comms are legit
@@CWLemoine The director asked the two to make a comms for the show, Im pretty sure there were some touches made but, JSDF comms and USAF comms are somewhat different. The shows was from the 1990s representing a digital warfare attack on 2010-ish era so its a little different than today but I understand ur point, its just a show to make dramatic scenes. Also, the RJTT ATCs voice actors were also real ATCs at the time of making.
I actually highly recommend these movies, Patlabor 1 and 2. The basic story of 1 is that Labors are the name of giant mecha, giant robots that are piloted mainly for construction, utilities, and such. There are military robots, but the series actually focuses on the "Patlabor Mobile Police Force". The division of Tokyo police that pilot police labors to deal with labor related crimes. If someone steals a car, police need a car to chase them. If someone steels a forty foot tall robot, police need a big robot to apprehend them. The first movie is about someone messing with the most popular of Labor operating systems, causing them to go Rogue, at seemingly random times, once it's been installed. It's actually a really good police investigation story... with giant robots instead of cop cars. The second movie, Patlabor 2, is actually an amazing film. A rogue faction is trying to initiate a civil war in Japan through things like that fake fighter attack. As the whole country begins to turn on itself, politically, the Patlabor police force, are trying to stay independent, not take sides, and not let it spiral out of control. They begin an investigation into this shadow terrorist group. It's a very good story about interpersonal relationships, the fragility of peace and government, and acting on personal conviction. It is also just a hauntingly beautiful movie. It's also a very melancholy, and introspective film. Not at all what you expect from a giant police robots cartoon. I would really recommend checking them out, especially Patlabor 2. I say this not because it's got cool scenes with the military, but because it's just a damned compelling story line, that has left me, and a few of my friends a little shaken, the first time we saw it.
There's also a couple scenes with F-4EJs in an anime called GATE: The JSDF Fought There (as well as a helicopter scene with some Apocalypse Now references worth checking out) if you're interested, which includes a flight of F-4Js merging with and engaging a *Dragon*. Not terribly realistic and they're fairly short scenes, but you might enjoy the lot of them.
I guess this is more realistic than a lot of ruined live action movies here. Remember one of the best comms he got is from a children 3d talking planes animation?
Eeeeeey proud to say I was part of the widely requesting crowd. What struck me was using English on comms but someone told me it’s universal for aviation comms so yay for that
Although in the real world it's an unrealistic scenario, the entire story of Patlabor 2 (and 1 really) is that their entirely integrated digital systems are completely 100% compromised. By the antagonist, Yukihito Tsuge
If you watch the whole show, the plot is kind of similar to 9-11 event, the terrorist just attack one iconic building, the whole country got into chaos mode and start blaming everybody, including US bases in Japan, even their police department and it's private counterpart like Patlabors,
@@BrendanRaymondKoroKoro ye, the scene was brilliant, it present some tension without showing much action, not to mention the whole city caught up in a simulated war with it's own government, holding the whole city as hostage,
One request, definitely look at the first episode for 戦闘妖精雪風 (Sentou Yousei Yukikaze). Especially their dogfight scenes lol Very Ace Combat-ish but apparently had consultants from the Japan Air Self-Defense Force and also had actual sounds of the F-15Js in the show
Look for the video "The Illusion of Peace in Mamoru Oshii's Patlabor 2" by Under the Scope. It explains the cultural and political context of the movie and the time it was originally released in.
You guys shoulda had him do the bridge bombing scene and where Arakawa tries to convince them the "F-16J" from the video is really an American F-16 with stealth components from the start of the film.
Note the date "2002.02.22 22:01:30" That's probably local JSDF time (not "UTC" as it should be). And.. the few seconds of airport panic scene / plane redirect at 4:30 has been cut.
Suggestion: Watch Macross Plus. Not only for the dogfights that include airplane maneuvers (mixed with giant robot ones), but also for the type of pilot characters. How they go about the fight and the competition. It's pretty awesome. It is not "The Top Gun of anime", and that is not a diss. 😁
Patlabor 2 is about a veteran's inner turmoil and injustice wrought upon him. Sometimes a veteran is unable to cope to living a normal civil life again and end up bring the war home with them.
I think their was made while the F-15 High Angle of attack was being tested, canards were a bit over hyped in anime because they are more visible than thrust vectoring.
I’d love to hear your opinion on the "modernized" F-15 airframe. The canards remind me of the "Super F-15" experimental frame. The rudders were given a more extreme slant than the F-22. The horizontal stabilizers were slanted down almost as much. I’m no aerospace engineer, ain’t any kind of engineer. I don’t know if it’s feasible but it looks cool, haha.
F-15 STOL/MTD ("F-15 ACTIVE"). I'm unaware of any F-15 testbed that had vertical stabilizers with a canted angle other than the F-15 Silent Eagle. And it wasn't that much, either.
6:32 "'91, that's a long time ago" - This movie made in 1993 was set in the far off future of 2002, and is an expansion on a 1988/89 TV series set in 1999 - each episode ended with a card, "Today this is science fiction, but in 1999, who knows?"
Agreed it's definitely well thought out. Especially when you consider it was from the pre-internet era. A lot of these small details would have required a decent consultant or reading a lot of OSINT magazines for research.
Where they said Next 05 they were saying the ETI estimated time of intercept has been adjusted to the 5 minutes past the next hour, in this case it’s 22:05, presume it’s not Zulu time but local Japan time.
I found that part really weird, but I think the idea is they thought they were hostile and then at the last moment they said it was a comm glitch and showed up as friendly? I guess?
For those who are wondering what had happened, a member of a terror group called "the national defense family" had contracted an american stealth F16 which went rogue during training off the coast of japan to bomb the Yokohama bay bridge. What happened later is the same member managed to hack into the airspace monitoring system known as SIF, and put up 3 bogus aircraft by callsign wyvern radar. Hint, wyvern never physically existed. 2 teams, Wizard, and Priest, were sent to intercept Wyvern. When wizard merged reports on radar with wyvern, their transponders were spoofed and it made it seem like they were shot down but weren't. Their systems were jammed and when they broke off changing course, the hackers plotted the fake wyvern on their irl position which allowed ground defense force to get a radar plot on "wyvern" but who they actually locked onto was wizard. It was when they ordered to kill wyvern, was when the NDF hacker removed wyvern and replotted wizard's transponders on the SIF screen. What it was, was the NDF member more or less continuing this war he declared so to speak which ended up causing civil unrest between the military and the mobile police units in japan.
Yeah the F15 Active/ STOVL was a prototype F15 to see the value of thrust vectoring and canards. The soviets had them in the flankers and we wanted to see what it would do. Results the the high angle of attack would make it killer at close range but BRV was still king so. The F15 active or STOVL was never produced. I think NASA still operates them. Growling sidwinder has a great video on the F15 stovl in DCS
Awesome! I remember watching Patlabor 2 as a child back in the early 90s intrigued by this particular scene, the rest of the money features giant Mechs the police uses to engage in a civil war while the JSDF uses killer Helicopters that would put Air wolf to shame. You should do Macross or Robotech next.
Love listening to this TH-camr talk. He’s a bit cynical. Critical. Suppose that most pilots or former professional pilots are whittling down errors. So they don’t buy the farm. Still for ground-based human. It’s a huge laundry list to filter out.
Right now the hacking scenario is far-fetched, but sci-fi often becomes reality. I could totally see that being a danger in the future, the more sophisticated and integrated weapom system become.
i'm sure someone has mentioned this already, but the name "patlabor" actually is english. its the english words "patrol" as in, like a patrol car. and "labor" which is the general term for robots in the series. patlabor is the common name to refer to police labors. so "pat-labor" is indeed the correct pronunciation. yes. its... a really dumb name
1:58 They are talking about the time of the intercept. The "next" apparently refers to the next hour, as the flight would be intercepted at 22:05. The original script also used a loneword from English, so it is what was used in the translation I guess.
If you want to see some really good air to air combat animation, look up Yukikaze. It is slightly futuristic (think next 20 years, so Gen 6 fighters). Also the opening sequence of Macross Zero, with and F14 going up against MiGs is amazing.
the full name is Patrol Labor....Labor is the general term of these new age robots...so this is akin to calling a police car a patrol car....hence Patlabor...
I just realized wyvern was traveling at 720 knots, because they weren't carrying bombs. They weren't real. It was the first clue the entire time. The hacker wouldn't have known that you would have a reduced airspeed when carrying a payload.
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For those who are still confused at what happened:
Somebody hacked into the Japanese air defense network after rogue Japanese aircraft attacked Tokyo, sending a flight of fake F-16Js (callsign Wyvern) from Misawa in northern Japan. Obviously everybody's on edge and they have no idea what's going on so they treat it like a real threat. Central Air Defense dispatches two flights of F-15s-Wizard 03 and Priest 21-to intercept. Wizard arrives at "Wyvern's" position first but they have no idea where Wyvern is. The hackers then spoof Wizard's transponders to 7700 (emergency) to make it seem like they've been shot down, but they're actually still flying.
Wizard's comms have been jammed so they can't communicate anything back to command, and now air defense radars think that Wizard is Wyvern. With Wizard unreachable, Central Air Defense tasks Priest 21 to intercept "Wyvern," now heading towards Tokyo. Priest 21 closes with "Wyvern" but Wizard breaks through the jamming and announces that they're still alive. Wyvern never existed and the JASDF almost had a case of blue on blue.
TLDR: Wyvern never existed except as a fake blip on radar.
I think that's the point that Mover is trying to make. There is no blip on the radar, so you'd actually declare "clean" if you were the F-15s on station. There several different sensors all acting independently, a hacker cannot jam or hack them all. The best they could do is hack the infrastructures (which they did, via the BADGE system) but the F-15 coms operate on a completely separate multi channel anti spoof module. It's it's own transponder unit within the airplane, all mil-std systems are separate on the aircraft like this and have usually 2 to 3 redundancy systems. The Radar can broadcast, the transponder module can broadcast, the SATCOM link can broad cast, there's multiple systems to switch too, making it virtually impossible for any one to some how "HACK" an entire air force.
The way the movie portrayed it is probably the only viable and most intelligent route to do this. You don't hack the fighters, the chances of doing that are slim especially since you may blind one system but another independent system will bypass that issue. If you want to cause a friendly fire incident to show up the military and scare the public with it; you hack Ops back on the ground and spoof their systems in such a way that you hope two flights are scrambled to intercept. You can than repeat what the film does and you described - you spoof Ops / Control back on the ground so that their screens give them the false information and rely bogus commands to the flights in the hopes that the outsider causes a train wreck in the sky. Minus some unrealistic points that Mover himself pointed out (since he would know); the scene is actually rather damned gripping and very good. I liked it, to be honest.
@@Nurhaal I forget what it was in the movie, but in modern terms, it's possible with a frequency jammer, a drone, and then a secondary drone to do the spoof signals back in their stead(first drone latches onto plane, starts all freq jammer+, second drone is safe distance back, sends back the spoof signals once the jammer activates, then pace or get out of dodge before 2nd intercept happens & let the internal fake signal be all that's left. In clip example, finally breaking through the jamming would be the attached drone falling off, leaving no trace. Both stayed jammed because they were in pattern within range to each other. So only one needed to be attached to. At least that's the only way I could see that working to create roaming dead spots of all frequencies. B/c the problem with drones for that, the second an all Freq Jammer is on, you don't have control of it anymore. So you'd have to know the exact of each component, to then use a a diff to maintain your own control. The only other solution to losing your own signal too, is to have a way to attach to your target before activating it. But then, as the clip showed, you risk the target at those speeds & air friction, to maintain contact with your device? It'll fall off after roughly 10-20 minutes if not much less.)
Within the confines of the movie, it is set a few years ahead of today, it'd be pretty basic to do if they were aware of all the redundancy systems...(Spoiler: The movie antagonist is, as having been former military themselves, so they had intimate knowledge about how the entire network & each individual system worked to do this very thing. Context matters.)
@@DevHawk I think its that the fake blip gets removed and put on the actual fighter so no need to fake of the second aircraft just use the actual aircraft and just flag them as the enemy aircraft.
now it would look odd if the pilots had decided to move eastwards away from the mainland as that might had thrown a wrench into the baddies plan.
remember 1970ish movie set 20 min into the future.
like they still in 2050 or when this movie is set still uses coins, vhs tape (when out in late 1990 early 2000).
I had much more enjoyment from reading this one comment than I had from the entire reaction video. Thanks for the summary!
Now I know where the latest Mission Impossible got their idea on their Rogue AI
Anime was released in 1991 but it was set in near future (2010s I guess?) so all the equipment in the show are futuristic version of current equipment. The show features armored robots..
I think mechs are better than a spot with machinegun
The F-15s are the experimental F-15 STOL/MTD, they would have thing the type would be accepted into service in this timeline
It was set in a futuristic vision of 2002, it wasn't even that far off from the time the movie was made so technology was envisioned to be already slightly more advanced in this movie.
2002 not 2010 the TV version set in 1999
The Patlabor saries was made in the late 80s/early 90s.
its meant to take place around that same time, its world being mostly the same as ours with the only difference being mechas are as prevalent as cars or boats
The 'Wyvern' Flight are Mitsubishi F-2 'Viper Zero' from 1993 (corrected), when the film was made.
The film is definitely Anime For Grownups, much recommended.
The 'Wizard' and 'Priest' flights are imagined F-15EJ Kai, upgraded with stealth trailing edges & F-15 SMTD systems basically.
The JASDF uses English for their A2A, in case of combined ops with USAF and USN.
CIF are JASDF IFF. Comms are very JASDF correct !
F-2's tend to carry IR AAM only (Fox-2).
The high-level Jamming is a major plot point in the rest of the film, btw.
With thanks for the review, much appreciated.
IR AAM is fox2, but other wise yes.
In the initial recording, they got an actual JASDF ground controller to do it. It sounds a little different (and is also available on YT) but they got her to more or less outline the basic procedure
The rest is pretty much a conceit to make the plot of the film happen.
The film was made before 1993，far before F-2 in service
@@lawleokatsushika4621 Which is why in the movie they are called F-16J, the F-2 hasn't been in service but it was highly likely that some way or form the JSDF were gonna adopt it for their use.
F-15EJ Wizard reminded me of Wizard Squadron in ace combat zero
Patlabor, by itself was a 'Cops with Industrial 'Mechs' dealing with a universe were powered industrial armor and Industrial 'mechs was a thing (and the second movie was specifically about the nebulous nature of Japan's Industrial Complex, which is why is far more chatty). I enjoyed the movies when i seen them in the late 90's but my thing was (always) Macross...
Patlabor movies: Deep political and philosophical discussion.
Patlabor TV series: Light-hearted slapstick comedy about a Tokyo mechanized police unit. Think Brooklyn Nine-Nine but with police mecha.
@@mmmoendo If you're not japanese or didn't view it with some knowledge of japanese politics I'm sure you'd just see it as a slow moving political drama. The movie, I'd say, is somewhat "deep." It uses a futuristic setting to reflect on the current state of the Japanese SDF, the role of such a military force, the legality, and the feelings of its members. It does also include some discussion on whether it is justified to remain peaceful in a world where there is war and suffering everywhere which Japan could help to stop.
This is basically the basis of the plot. A JSDF official whose unit was slaughtered as part of the UN Peace Keeping force in Cambodia in the 90s plots a series of terrorist attacks against infrastructure and military targets to show its people how unprepared their military is during the peacetime. Thus in doing so he also shows why his men were slaughtered.
If you read some of what Japanese critics thought I think you'll see why the movie is so highly acclaimed.
@@mmmoendo it is pretty deep compared to the vast majority of vapid anime out there. Unjust peace, just war, the state of the JSDF at the time, the feelings of the Japanese towards war and foreign military interventions....
Next Generation Patlabor live action: even more absurd slapstick slice of life comedy ...until episode 12 where it drops all the comedy and becomes a prologe for the sequel to Patlabor 2 movie. Then it continues to Next Generation Patlabor: Tokyo War (Grey Ghost) where it becomes a full blown sequel to Patlabor 2 Movie.
I have yet to find something more hilarious than that episode where they chase a crocodile through the sewers. Ironically, the director of that episode is the same guy who directed this movie (and ghost in the shell)
@@origirindra1590wait what. I had no idea there is any of that. I really need to watch this. Thanks so much. I love the patlabor franchise and especially the second movie
I'm a little fuzzy on it because it's been quite a few years, but the general gist of the story is a disgruntled former SDF member used a series of terrorist attacks and hacks to manipulate the military and the government into thinking there was going to be a coup. He was able to do that because of his intimate personal experience with the systems and politics involved. He wanted the civilian population to experience the reality of Japan's military first hand, it ties into a lot of Japan's political situation and the frustration their service members had at the time it was released.
Yeah, most of the Patlabor movies were political dramas. I believe the SDF member's main grievance was that his Labor unit was doing peacekeeping operations, and they were attacked.
Due to the political situation at the time, they needed authorization to even return fire. By the time he got it, the unit took heavy casualties; he might have even been the sole survivor.
He saw the peace that Japan had enjoyed made the civilian population completely ignorant to the realities of war & affairs abroad in general, hence the attempted coup by the SDF.
To explain a bit about the context of the aircraft shown in the movie: Both the "F-16J" and the F-15s with canards shown were 1990s Japan's idea of what stealth fighters would look like because at the time the movie was being developed (1989-1991) the ATF competition was still undercover and nobody in the writing team had seen the YF-22. The reason that Wyvern was EXPECTED to be undetectable by Wizard is because, well, they were stealth planes. Similarly, it was expected that Wyvern would be just as blind. The military ATC in this entire scene was actually tracking Wyvern's identifying transmitters, not their actual radar contact. That's where the "Wyvern" name came from to begin with; it was a flight of the JASDF 8th squadron. That's also why they kept trying to contact Wyvern. These weren't bandits but the JASDF's own planes flying unauthorized, and the JASDF didn't want to engage right away BECAUSE they could still track Wyvern through their own transmissions, meaning the pilots didn't take steps to silence their planes and the whole thing could have been just an honest mistake or some sort of stupid malfunction. The whole situation flipped when Wizard was thought to have been shot down and all contact lost. What actually happened was that false data was fed to the BADGE system causing the system to manifest a ghost Wyvern flight to lure Wizard to fly on top of a high altitude blimp fitted with jamming equipment. Wizard then got jammed and lost contact, and the hacked BADGE system switched Wizard's identifiers for Wyvern's. The "Wyvern" that ATC was tracking after that point was actually Wizard. That's why Priest was able to track "Wyvern" after that point, because by then the physically real Wizard flight was the one they were tracking.
EDIT: Almost forgot. Within the context of this movie, it was already established earlier on that the F-16J was VERY stealthy, probably more so than the F-15s. An attack was perpetrated against a major bridge in Tokyo by a JASDF F-16J that flew completely undetected and was only identified through a short video footage of the event.
I haven't seen the movie, but I assume the BADGE system is similar to the US's Blue Force Tracker (BFT) system?
Wasn't explained by Arakawa that the Wyverns were not real and it was a system hack or something to the radar network?
@@atadbitnefarious1387 Yes.
@@narindrakrisnamurti4129 Yes. Wyvern was not real up until Wizard merged with the shadow. Then Wizard became tagged as Wyvern, at which point there was a physical presence that Priest could track. The "Wyvern" that showed up on BADGE after Wizard was thought to have been shot down is actually Wizard.
@@andrewsuryali8540 I see. Well, this definitely not for kids with these details. I've seen it hundred of times, now I need to watch it again.
Speaking of the lost in translation thing. I'm a crewchief on UH60 Blackhawks.
I watched an anime called Rescue Wings, about a Japanese Coast Guard UH60 crew
There was a scene of the startup sequence they do for running up the aircraft, I found absolutely correct. They even say the whole checklist in English.
But the subtitles had translated everything completely wrong lol. Things like "gust lock" would be subtitled "gas lock." Which should be out on startup, but they translated the "out" to "on." Just a case of the subtitle team being unfamiliar with technical terms.
Something that 99.9999 percent of the audience would not have caught. But being that I have conducted hundreds of run ups and listened to the checklist thousands of times, It immediately threw a flag when what I was reading didn't correlate with what was actually being said.
So they have japanese people speaking in English, but the people who did the English subtitles still mistranslate?
@@Razgriz_01 yeah lol.
only the ATC calls and checklist reading was in english though. everything else was still japanese.
@@Razgriz_01 I think this video was translated by Chinese bootleggers.
They're usually translated by young Americans in their free time, half the time they don't even know English yet alone Japanese.
@@stevenuss1482 To be fair, jargon is another language in any language.
"I say again"
I get tired of other movies or shows using "repeat" not realizing how wrong that is. This movie gets it right.
Oh God yes......
My sister is a field artillery officer so even I know how important it is
The Comm is an idiosyncrasy of requiring them to speak in English for intercepts while most pilots of the era this was made only really knew aviation English. When interviewed about the sequence, they said they basically sat down with a JSDF ground controller for the comm procedure for an intercept and had them do the initial recording. Having to do an intercept in what amounts to a foreign language is awkward.
A friend of mine who worked at NORAD for a while with the Canadians said that while there's a lot of differences in precise comms, the basic drama of the scene where you have a time pressure between information and intercepts is accurate from a ground control PoV
@@FBH991 Well, their consultant was a ground controller afterall.
SIF stands for Selective Identification Feature and old term. SIF is basically a selective identification feature added to older IFF systems. Newer IFF systems have a SIF feature built in. The SIF system allows for the identification of individual aircraft rather than just whether it is Friend or Foe.
The 7700 squak codes that popped up when they were supposedly shot down was an impressive detail…
Would that be what alerted the Civilian tower to the situation? I know they probably saw jets on the radar before that
As I recall, it's not that Wyvern was jamming so heavily that Wizard couldn't see them, it was actually that Wyvern didn't exist at all, and Wizard didn't get shot down, just merged with Wyvern's "shadow" at the SOC when they got close enough. The whole thing was a cyber attack and once Wizard 03 merged with Wyvern, it gave Wyvern a physical presence. I have no idea if this is possible or not, but I believe that is what was going on in this scene.
Yeah by the looks of it the Japanese Air Defense/ATC network got hijacked.
First they created fake detections for inbound F-16Js, then flagged the real Wizard team detections as hostile and removed the fake detections in order to try and get Priest to shoot Wizard down.
The jamming in question would probably just have to be Wizard's comms to prevent them from calling in while supposedly dead.
@@ToastyMozart yes but the hijacker were members of the jsdf. The hold movie is set in a political crisis in japan
The jamming of the calls was generated by 3 propaganda blips that were used as drones
Yes, and the point of the "merge" was probably to get Priest to buddy-kill Wizard (who then would be shown as Wyvern) and kick off a huge incident
In case people don't know Patlabor is a somewhat realistic slice-of-life, police procedural mecha anime about a police mech division called SV2, mechs are called "Labors" here and they're widely used for construction.
The division is basically a dumping ground for the Tokyo police (like Major Crimes Unit in The Wire), they have colourful characters from razor sharp people that the top brass aren't exactly fond of like Goto, the guy in the orange vest in the aquarium, to boneheads like Ohta. The comedy comes from how dysfunctional they are and the fact that they're always broke because fixing Labors with a full maintenance squad isn't cheap.
Patlabor 2 is a hard turn from the usual comedic tone and takes a darker and more nationalistic spiel but it's the best of the series IMO, Oshii is just a great director.
Every entry in the series is worth watching, give it a try
All 3 movies were way darker than the main TV series.
@@frumsmcnoodles323 not Patlabor 1 though
The movies are definitely not "slice of life", they're very surreal. The third movie was made by a different director and is itself very different than the first two (and not as good).
Oh nice, Patlabor 2 is my favourite Japanese animated film of all time! Such gorgeous cinematography, mature storyline, and detailed animation. Great to see your take on this scene!
Do you need to watch the first one to understand this one?
@@projectplight Hm, not really, but it helps. Basically, 'Labors' are bipedal machines people operate to do things like construction work and military operations. Patlabors are 'patrol labors' - bipedal machines used in a police force to stop crime where Labors are used. The first film has a lot more Patlabor / labor related action, but Patlabor 2 is quite different. This film is mostly about a terrorist trying to invoke a war, and the concept of instigating war in a country that cannot, due to American peacekeeping rules after WWII. There is a bit of Labor action at the end of it, but its mostly slow monologues, political scenes and tension / drama. For a film based on an '80s series about giant robots, It's not a very 'anime' film at all. It was directed by the same guy who did Ghost In The Shell movie, and his films are usually very slow, cerebral and philosophical.
It works well as its own film without much prior knowledge.
P2 is like an anime Tom Clancy thriller. I loved watching this too growing up.
@@projectplight Honeslty, if this scene interested you, you might as well watch the first one too. Because both are great.
@@andrewhickinbottom1051
Yeah, this one's very specifically about a time period when the Cold War had ended and it wasn't particularly clear what the JSDF was even going to be _for_ anymore.
Those F15s are called the F-15J Kai Eagle Plus, and are based off the F-15 STOL/MTD with a F22 style Stealth package
It's neat that the tension in this scene works whether you assume that everything's as it seems, or whether you (correctly) suspect that Priest is about to shoot down Wizard, relabelled as Wyvern.
Director Mamoru Oshii's works are masterpieces, but I was only one of the members of the Patlabor Project.
That is why there are many old fans who are dissatisfied with the fact that the film version has been stripped of the comical aspects of the manga and TV series, and the philosophical and anti-government sentiments of Director Oshii have been extremely emphasized.
The voice actors of the pilot and the woman radar operator are played by Japanese Air Force personnel.
I think the most accurate thing was that nothing happened. You can do whatever you want, have 500 squadrons all having at it with supernuke missiles and they just had a slightly non standard intercept.
Back when anime was really good and the creators used to do research into actual information from what they were using. The hacking part is viable because almost no system is a closed system. Even when "closed" systems exist there are a plethora of ways to exploit that. You can see that from the real world with some nuclear facilities that got hacked.
Read an article years ago where a Las Vegas casino got hacked and several million dollars stolen from them. Turns out, the hacker found an unsecured heater in a fish tank that was on Wifi and used that to get in.
Mamoru Oshii wrote and directed many of the best animated movies of the past three decades: Jin-Roh the wolf brigade, Ghost in the Shell, Angel's Egg, and of course, Patlabor 1 and 2, among several others.
No live-action adaptation will ever do them justice, although, the Korean adaptation of Jin-Roh is quite good.
I'm beginning to see Anime as three different things all called the same name.
There's this stuff here, Japan's output during the 80s and 90s
Then there's today's stuff, which just seems really odd compared the first.
Then there's Ghibli, Ghibli is Ghibli just like Disney is Disney.
@@MostlyPennyCat It’s not quite accurate to divide this stuff by decade, they had the weirder stuff back in the 80s and 90s, it just didn’t have the same staying power overseas as Patlabor, ghost in the shell, etc.
You may want to watch Gate
If no one has pointed it out, (I'm sure they have but :) ) it is "pat" "labor" or "Patrol Labor"
"Labors" are the large mechanical suits used in the movies and series whereas the "Patrol" portion is due to the story following a group of Police Labors or "patrols"
Patlabor 2 the movie came out in 1993 btw so "91" isn't that long ago for them :)
These F15s looked like F15S/MTD. They're the only model/prototype with those canards and you can also spot the rectangular 2D nozzle. Why Japan would have them in this, I have no clue. They look cool and that's the only reason needed for anime.
a few years back it was extremely difficult to get accurate models and information on specific aircraft models. Never mind the early 90s.
It F-15J Kai+
Fictional aircraft
@@bearxd780 Which is obviously based on the F-15S/MTD (f-15 base + canards), as well as some influences from the F-22 (canted vertical stabs and nozzles).
@@hiddengnome vertical stabilizers look more like from YF-23 tbh
@@hiddengnome The F-15 STOL/MTD always had a special place in my heart as a kid.
The comms are pretty realistic and to Japanese standards. It would make sense for the plot with super hackers. It’s is doable, in theory, IRL, but we’ve yet to seen this pulled off.
Even Goto lampshaded it when it was brought up in their inconspicuous meeting with the Public Security guy in the aftermath.
The big point of this scene is that the central SOC clears to fire without response from the Defence Chief, which is something they need to do in JP or something. 4:40 Which is kind of non sensical and the point the villain in the show is trying to prove.
And it is so because in first scene of the film villains colleagues were killed bc they werent cleared to fire. Damn, I only realized this after seeing your comment, so many layers
@@yaremer Yes, not only does he create an action scene with just dialogues, Oshii debates his political views on the appeal of pacifism and it's impracticality, whilst being consistsant with the motives of the characters. What a genius.
@@yaremer damn, clever obesrvation
Wow I haven't seen this anime is many years! It's cool that you are taking a look at this!
It would be cool if Mover could do some clips from Area 88.
Patlabor 2 is a legendary movie. My lifetime's favorite.
Those whom have not watched the Patlabor 2, the film is a brilliant spy thriller set in the Patlabor franchise. While seeing the rest of the franchise is nice. Patlabor is self contained enough that one can watch the film without knowing about the rest of the franchise.
The story is pretty typical of Mamori Oshii. The animation is still a big standout for something made in 1993.
I mean, the 90s was when Japanese animation peaked.
@@DonVigaDeFierro 3DCG fugly anywhere, not even a single mecha is drawn nowadays.
Lemme provide some comments about this scene. So before the scene where Mover reviewed, there are allegations that a rogue F-16 (F-2) was the perpretrator of the bridge bombing occured in the opening of the movie, so when the three-ship formation of F-16s (Callsign Wyvern) shown on JASDF radar station, they thought there would be another attack and scramble bunch of F-15s (Callsign Wizard and Priest) to intercept them.
Wyvern however, were fake, none actually flew in the air as the hacker able to manipulate JASDF's radar stations. Wizard unable to receive further comms and unaware that they're gone from the radar station due to an aircraft disguised as commercial blimp effectively jams them.
And I believe, Priest locked Wizard because it flew nearly the same flight profile as Wyvern, leading Priest into thinking it was the hostile and this might be possible due to early F-15J doesn't have IFF module installed. Another possible scenario was that Priest able to lock Wyvern after provided by JASDF's hacked radar station data-link (F-15J has indigenous data link that works as a basic bidirectional link with the Japanese ground-controlled intercept network).
Actually in the story it isn't F-2, but F-16J (from what I remembered in the movie it's F-16 with canards), and this movie also released 2 years before F-2 first flight
@@faraway2217 it was, but to avoid confusion between the F-15J and F-16J, I'd rather call them F-2
@@faraway2217
If I recall, the F-16's modifications are specifically said to only be American during the video enhancement scene, that's how they know it was an American plane that attacked the bridge. F-16J is likely just because they knew at that point that they were adopting the F-16, but the "F-2" nomenclature hadn't been decided on yet. So the production team assumed it would be the American designation with a -J appended, much like their F-15 and F-4E variants.
The callsigns Wizard, Wyvern, Trebor, and Priest are all from an early computer game called Wizardry. (Trebor is creator Robert Woodhead’s name backwards. He went on to found an anime import/adaptation company called AnimEigo in the 80s, so there’s a symmetry to this scene.)
Well, sure they jammed it after hacking it, but the really important question here is: Was it Raspberry?
And yes, the Japanese are a very top-down oriented country. I completely buy that a fighter pilot would be begging for orders if any tiny thing changed in a tactical situation. And the controllers would then also be calling their bosses for new orders, and so on up the chain of stupidity until it eventually hits someone with sufficient stars on his collar to actually make a decision about what to have for lunch.
Only one man would dare give me the raspberry...
Oshii Mamoru, who shot this movie, is a big Wizardry fan. Trebo, Priest, Wyvern, etc. are adopted from Wizardry.
There is also an episode in the Patlabor TV series that pays homage to the game's exploration of underground labyrinths.
there are 2 other jet fighter related anime with some good scenes i'd recommend checking out
Sentou Yousei Yukikaze (localized as: Battle Fairy Yukikaze) and Area 88
Yukikaze takes place in the future with wacky super-maneuverable aircraft and aliens, but still manages to keep quite a bit of realism
Area 88 is much more grounded and has older jet aircraft
Problem with Yukikaze would be that you couldn't just watch clips of it IMHO to get a good feel of it.
Getting Mover to watch all of Area 88 would be cool but it might not be easy for him.
Probably a better one for Mover to check out would be Macross Zero, especially the F-14 scenes near the beginning of the first episode.
He would probably be less interested in the Valkyrie/mecha combat scenes, such as the one that straddles episode 1 and 2.
I think that the area 88 is related to the Ace combat series of games i might be wrong tho
I second area 88. Just find some good clips to watch, I'm sure he'd be up for it.
Patlabor 2 is one of the handful of anime I would recommend anybody, even though the franchise is about giant robots policing unauthorized usage of giant robots, and AI going rogue and taking control of giant robots. This second film might as well have been live action with how it worked out, one of The Greats.
For simply flying there's the 1980's Area 88 anime (not the remake) if you want something reminiscent of Iron Eagle (forget realism), it's got a serious piece of story around the main character and the world around him that seals the deal for me.
I believe the F-15s showcased here were a Research Variant of the F-15B called the F-15STOL/MTD which was given Canards to increase maneuverability as well as assist it on shorter takeoffs.
You called "not the best comms" but the female ATC voice actress from TREBOR was an actual former JSDF ATC at Misawa. The comms from WIZARD-03 was also a former JSDF fighter pilot, and they were both married + a friend of the Director of PATLABOR. So yeah, theyre comms are legit
That doesn’t mean they wrote it. I stand by what I said.
@@CWLemoine The director asked the two to make a comms for the show, Im pretty sure there were some touches made but, JSDF comms and USAF comms are somewhat different. The shows was from the 1990s representing a digital warfare attack on 2010-ish era so its a little different than today but I understand ur point, its just a show to make dramatic scenes.
Also, the RJTT ATCs voice actors were also real ATCs at the time of making.
I actually highly recommend these movies, Patlabor 1 and 2. The basic story of 1 is that Labors are the name of giant mecha, giant robots that are piloted mainly for construction, utilities, and such. There are military robots, but the series actually focuses on the "Patlabor Mobile Police Force". The division of Tokyo police that pilot police labors to deal with labor related crimes. If someone steals a car, police need a car to chase them. If someone steels a forty foot tall robot, police need a big robot to apprehend them.
The first movie is about someone messing with the most popular of Labor operating systems, causing them to go Rogue, at seemingly random times, once it's been installed. It's actually a really good police investigation story... with giant robots instead of cop cars.
The second movie, Patlabor 2, is actually an amazing film. A rogue faction is trying to initiate a civil war in Japan through things like that fake fighter attack. As the whole country begins to turn on itself, politically, the Patlabor police force, are trying to stay independent, not take sides, and not let it spiral out of control. They begin an investigation into this shadow terrorist group. It's a very good story about interpersonal relationships, the fragility of peace and government, and acting on personal conviction. It is also just a hauntingly beautiful movie. It's also a very melancholy, and introspective film. Not at all what you expect from a giant police robots cartoon.
I would really recommend checking them out, especially Patlabor 2. I say this not because it's got cool scenes with the military, but because it's just a damned compelling story line, that has left me, and a few of my friends a little shaken, the first time we saw it.
There's also a couple scenes with F-4EJs in an anime called GATE: The JSDF Fought There (as well as a helicopter scene with some Apocalypse Now references worth checking out) if you're interested, which includes a flight of F-4Js merging with and engaging a *Dragon*. Not terribly realistic and they're fairly short scenes, but you might enjoy the lot of them.
*F-4EJ, the F-4J was an US Navy Phantom.
@@FirstDagger Oh huh, I thought the J was just the Japanese-produced Phantom. Thanks for the correction.
@@FirstDagger They are listed as F-4J's in the series. When they're shown it actually says "JASDF F-4J".
@@Plaprad They are EJ Kais.
They have built in guns, and the phantom pilot says he wants to try gun, while being shown with no gunpod.
The callsigns in that scene incidentally are a shoutout to the Patlabor 2 scene.
I guess this is more realistic than a lot of ruined live action movies here. Remember one of the best comms he got is from a children 3d talking planes animation?
They literally had an actual comms person come in and do it. If he's saying that's unrealistic, he's biased against it being an anime.
Oh man, I remember asking Mover to check this out way back when he did his first 'mover ruins'... so cool to see him do it! Thanks Mover!
The most surprising thing is that even though it is a fictional near-future anime, the film was released in theaters in 1993.
lol loved it when Mover looked away and the guys said. "are you even listening to me?"
The Top Gun of anime is Macross Plus, but the opening sequence of Macross Zero with the Tomcats was fun.
PATLABOR IN THE TITLE?!? LIKE!
very happy to actually got to be introduced into the SPECTRE series thanks to this video hahaha
C.W. LEMOINE, you make GREAT books, i love it!
このシーンについて日本のファンは高く評価しています。一方で、あなたが仰ったとおり、航空自衛隊の管制官と軍事評論家は、いくつかの点で間違いがあると認めています。とはいえ、この「幻の爆撃」は専門家、軍人、アニメファンに愛好家が多く、今でも話題に上がる名シーンであることは事実です。
素晴らしいレビューをありがとうございました😊
Eeeeeey proud to say I was part of the widely requesting crowd.
What struck me was using English on comms but someone told me it’s universal for aviation comms so yay for that
Well F-35B have successfully landing on JSDF Carrier....
Although in the real world it's an unrealistic scenario, the entire story of Patlabor 2 (and 1 really) is that their entirely integrated digital systems are completely 100% compromised.
By the antagonist, Yukihito Tsuge
If you watch the whole show, the plot is kind of similar to 9-11 event, the terrorist just attack one iconic building, the whole country got into chaos mode and start blaming everybody, including US bases in Japan, even their police department and it's private counterpart like Patlabors,
@@BrendanRaymondKoroKoro ye, the scene was brilliant, it present some tension without showing much action, not to mention the whole city caught up in a simulated war with it's own government, holding the whole city as hostage,
This animated film was released in Japan in 1993.
One request, definitely look at the first episode for 戦闘妖精雪風 (Sentou Yousei Yukikaze). Especially their dogfight scenes lol
Very Ace Combat-ish but apparently had consultants from the Japan Air Self-Defense Force and also had actual sounds of the F-15Js in the show
Speaking of Ace Combat, we have a wizard 3. Where's the rest of Wizard Squadron?
@@mill2712 I see you bro LOL ;)
Another anime that may be worth this segment is Macross Zero. It has great dogfights between fighters based off of the F-14 and F-18.
Look for the video "The Illusion of Peace in Mamoru Oshii's Patlabor 2" by Under the Scope. It explains the cultural and political context of the movie and the time it was originally released in.
Fun fact: Those F-15’s were based on an NASA/USAF F-15’s that had Canards and a vector capable engines.
Also the movie is set in 2002.
You guys shoulda had him do the bridge bombing scene and where Arakawa tries to convince them the "F-16J" from the video is really an American F-16 with stealth components from the start of the film.
Oh, so it's not a Westland Wyvern, the Royal Navy's turboprop strike fighter from the 1950s.
That would have been a short fight with modern missiles
@@theussmirage Would still have been more of a fight than what was in this video.
Note the date "2002.02.22 22:01:30" That's probably local JSDF time (not "UTC" as it should be). And.. the few seconds of airport panic scene / plane redirect at 4:30 has been cut.
Suggestion: Watch Macross Plus. Not only for the dogfights that include airplane maneuvers (mixed with giant robot ones), but also for the type of pilot characters. How they go about the fight and the competition. It's pretty awesome. It is not "The Top Gun of anime", and that is not a diss. 😁
When I heard the QE2 carrier was using Windows XP in 2018-ish, this sequence (only without checkfire being called) sprang to mind.
Patlabor 2 is about a veteran's inner turmoil and injustice wrought upon him.
Sometimes a veteran is unable to cope to living a normal civil life again and end up bring the war home with them.
I think their was made while the F-15 High Angle of attack was being tested, canards were a bit over hyped in anime because they are more visible than thrust vectoring.
I’d love to hear your opinion on the "modernized" F-15 airframe. The canards remind me of the "Super F-15" experimental frame. The rudders were given a more extreme slant than the F-22. The horizontal stabilizers were slanted down almost as much. I’m no aerospace engineer, ain’t any kind of engineer. I don’t know if it’s feasible but it looks cool, haha.
I love this F-15 designs makes me wish that it became real
F-15 STOL/MTD ("F-15 ACTIVE").
I'm unaware of any F-15 testbed that had vertical stabilizers with a canted angle other than the F-15 Silent Eagle. And it wasn't that much, either.
We've done it. Mover has entered the anime realm
And he should throw it reverse to get the hell out....LOL
@@Jonnymule lol , and you think your western cartoons are good or smth ? shits for ten year old stuff its embarassing .
6:32 "'91, that's a long time ago" - This movie made in 1993 was set in the far off future of 2002, and is an expansion on a 1988/89 TV series set in 1999 - each episode ended with a card, "Today this is science fiction, but in 1999, who knows?"
This was released from 1991, but it show us the importance of Cyber Security....
Agreed it's definitely well thought out. Especially when you consider it was from the pre-internet era. A lot of these small details would have required a decent consultant or reading a lot of OSINT magazines for research.
I love it when fiction, especially anime, makes an effort to get the lingo correct.
Patlabor 2 was super impressive for its time.
Would love to see a review of Area 88.
It’s full of old planes and intrigue.
Where they said Next 05 they were saying the ETI estimated time of intercept has been adjusted to the 5 minutes past the next hour, in this case it’s 22:05, presume it’s not Zulu time but local Japan time.
Got surprised to see Mover reacting to Patlabor 2 F-15 Scene
me too. it was pretty boring.
@@13christbane yes not enough explosions to keep a child's attention.
The F-15s in the Patlabor 2 was inspired, from F-15S/MTD
I found that part really weird, but I think the idea is they thought they were hostile and then at the last moment they said it was a comm glitch and showed up as friendly? I guess?
Love that you watched this. Hi from Okinawa.
The F-15s with canard are an experimental variant that flew. F-15S/MTD (ACTIVE)
For those who are wondering what had happened, a member of a terror group called "the national defense family" had contracted an american stealth F16 which went rogue during training off the coast of japan to bomb the Yokohama bay bridge. What happened later is the same member managed to hack into the airspace monitoring system known as SIF, and put up 3 bogus aircraft by callsign wyvern radar. Hint, wyvern never physically existed. 2 teams, Wizard, and Priest, were sent to intercept Wyvern. When wizard merged reports on radar with wyvern, their transponders were spoofed and it made it seem like they were shot down but weren't. Their systems were jammed and when they broke off changing course, the hackers plotted the fake wyvern on their irl position which allowed ground defense force to get a radar plot on "wyvern" but who they actually locked onto was wizard. It was when they ordered to kill wyvern, was when the NDF hacker removed wyvern and replotted wizard's transponders on the SIF screen.
What it was, was the NDF member more or less continuing this war he declared so to speak which ended up causing civil unrest between the military and the mobile police units in japan.
The whole point of PATLABOR is Digital System Warfare.
Whats happens when mainframe networks can be hacked.
Yeah the F15 Active/ STOVL was a prototype F15 to see the value of thrust vectoring and canards. The soviets had them in the flankers and we wanted to see what it would do. Results the the high angle of attack would make it killer at close range but BRV was still king so. The F15 active or STOVL was never produced. I think NASA still operates them. Growling sidwinder has a great video on the F15 stovl in DCS
This movie was on my old harddrive i loved it. Love 80s 90s japan animation. Masters of the craft
one of the most underrated anime movie of all time
The F15 that is depicted in this anime movie is the experimental f15 stol/MTD
Awesome! I remember watching Patlabor 2 as a child back in the early 90s intrigued by this particular scene, the rest of the money features giant Mechs the police uses to engage in a civil war while the JSDF uses killer Helicopters that would put Air wolf to shame. You should do Macross or Robotech next.
This animated film was released in Japan in 1993.
The gist I got was it was realistic ENOUGH to be entertaining and makes easy to suspend disbelief.
Well, Patlabor is getting a new series. Think 2026 is the targeted release?
I remember watching this as a kid and having no idea what's going on.
If you love realism... the Invasion scene from the anime movie 'Royal Air Force - Wings of Honneamise' is a must see!
>Realistic
>Anime involving fighter jets
There are not many that combine both you know so please pick one of the two options.
Hoping for a Macross: Plus MRM a.k.a. what the movie Stealth ripped off their material from.
Love Macross Plus! Probably my favourite of the all the Macross Animes.
@@FarrellMcGovern Me too .......from HK!!!!
I was hoping you would react to this some day !
Love listening to this TH-camr talk. He’s a bit cynical. Critical. Suppose that most pilots or former professional pilots are whittling down errors. So they don’t buy the farm. Still for ground-based human. It’s a huge laundry list to filter out.
Man, 80s and 90s feature length anime looked so good.
Would not have expected this reaction vid!
Right now the hacking scenario is far-fetched, but sci-fi often becomes reality.
I could totally see that being a danger in the future, the more sophisticated and integrated weapom system become.
i'm sure someone has mentioned this already, but the name "patlabor" actually is english. its the english words "patrol" as in, like a patrol car. and "labor" which is the general term for robots in the series. patlabor is the common name to refer to police labors. so "pat-labor" is indeed the correct pronunciation. yes. its... a really dumb name
It's not. In Japan portmanteau are very common which is why you have things like gunpla or plamo
1:58 They are talking about the time of the intercept. The "next" apparently refers to the next hour, as the flight would be intercepted at 22:05. The original script also used a loneword from English, so it is what was used in the translation I guess.
If you want to see some really good air to air combat animation, look up Yukikaze. It is slightly futuristic (think next 20 years, so Gen 6 fighters). Also the opening sequence of Macross Zero, with and F14 going up against MiGs is amazing.
the full name is Patrol Labor....Labor is the general term of these new age robots...so this is akin to calling a police car a patrol car....hence Patlabor...
Patlabor 2 is a really good political thriller movie.
This is where Mission Impossible Dead Reckoning got their idea from
This guy has to review Area 88 and Yukikaze, absolute top tier shows for fighter jet action
こうしてリアルなパイロットの意見を聞けるのは貴重よね‥
日本語訳が欲しいです……
I just realized wyvern was traveling at 720 knots, because they weren't carrying bombs. They weren't real. It was the first clue the entire time. The hacker wouldn't have known that you would have a reduced airspeed when carrying a payload.