A Conversation with Rupert Spira and Shantena Augusto Sabbadini on the Nature of Reality
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 10 ส.ค. 2015
- www.scienceandnonduality.com
How does the appearance of an objective world arises? Why we and the world appear localized in space and time if we our true nature of infinite?
The nondual teacher Rupert Spira and the quantum physicist Santena Augusto Sabbadini discuss the nature of consciousness through the lenses of nonduality, quantum mechanics, Tao Te Ching and poetry. This conversation was recorded at SAND15 Italy.
RUPERT, that rock star of conscience. The tiger that awakes us all from our dream. Sniper of light and truth. A praise for Shantena Augusto Sabbadini, too, the way he listens with total concentration in a very humble way - he knows he is in the presence of clarity - as Rupert throws his gems, disguised as words. God's brightest son. Thank you Rupert, thank you tube and thank you scienceandnonduality.
Wonderful conversation, and Rupert Spira is a gem.
Mr. Spira is just heavenly. Thanks!
Carson
His Spiritual Genius is just Breathtaking! I have studied and seen just about Everyone of note for 47 years. I have never seen Anyone Do what he does. He puts Krishnamurti and all others to shame in the Depth of his single Clarity and Analysis. Awesome!
His Clarity and Genius is Stunning! A Pure Enlightened Understanding!
Once again Rupert is on a completely different level from everyone else here, you can see it in his body language, the way he speaks, his motions and facial expressions, notice how still and calm he is while sitting, he truly is an enlightened being, or a true ascended/descended master of eastern teaching, or just a plain genius whether you wish to label him as an abstract quack teaching pseudo psychology, he still makes a point in wgat he says.. like that of eckhart tolle and osho, on a completely different level here, in the past you could say Buddha or Jesus, simple, practical communication with a profound d impact.
Tenzin Palmo, Tolle, Lao Tze, etc......but Rupert was the "one" that kicked the door for "me". So clear, so pristine, sharp as awareness itself. "I" will thank "him" forever.
Serafim Sousa Same for me :-) Rupert was the one who really got it to click with me. Absolutely brilliant! Gotta love Rupert :-)
I'd suggets Francis Lucille, Rupert's former teacher.
@Truth Seeker Not really. The silence or the pause he makes allows him to "marinate" in whatever he will eventually say and THAT deserves our respect.
Tolle puts me to sleep
Extraordinary conversation between leading exponents of science and mysticism/nonduality awareness. Read these comments then listen again !
Wow, Wow, Wow!! Rupert blows, my mind every time!!! Thank you Divine power for your blighter's Gem, Rupert Spira!!!!
Science and spirituality are going to meet soon.
Wow...just wow. Wished I'd known of these conversations long time ago...however, in the same breath...I am aware all is just as it should be.
they cant since science is the result of thinking matter to be real and the belief that consciousness is produced in the brain. Science has its limits.
This discussion could be summed up as the quantum marriage of philosophy and science through the metaphor of the lens …the forgetting, the overlooking, erasing a part of itself in order to experience the infinite within the finite…and awaken to the “knowing of its own being.” The lens as metaphor becoming real at the conclusion! Bravo!
Thank you so much, Rupert!
A beautiful conversation!!!
A moment of pure pleasure. Thanks you so much !
Rupert gave a somewhat explanation on how consciousness brought about finity but it lacks teleology, the why question. He said that consciousness has to become finite in order to know finity. But why infinity would know finity? Unless you add more content to it non duality will remain an incomplete truth in the whole of reality.
The idea of consciousness by itself being bored, even by Rupert himself should be ridiculous who teach that consciousness is peace and happiness. Can you imagine consciousness getting bored because it is alone? Is not even a concession, is simply untrue.
Astute observation.
Fascinating and brilliant ~ thank you very much.
Absolutely wonderful conversation. Thank you!!
Yes, it was truly amazing conversation !!!
Rupert (sorry if I am taking name and form) was awesome 🙏
Excellent interaction! It quenches my inquisitor like no other :-)
Beautiful the felt love that radiates from this conversation 🙏🏻
I did acid and it showed me that consciousness existed before everything physical and consciousness got so bored of being self aware it created the earth and every human being and the ego as a way of distracting itself from itself. at 12:40 his story of brahma gave me a flash back to my acid trip. it's crazy we're all the source of all matter experiencing itself and it's aware of itself being myself and you and everything came from a singularity and everything even empty space comes from the same source
Just beware superimpose antropomorphisms, like boredom, on God/Infininte consciousness. Nothing suggests the idea, it should be some kind of super-human mind/intelligence.
WoW...Potentiality & possibility springing forth from a simple question as why does reality appear localized...This conversation was extremely juicy...Thanks for posting...
I A(namarupa)M !!!
Ask three questions from yourself after waking from a dream.
1. The observer of my dream was conscious or unconscious?
2. The observer of my dream was in my dream or in the universe?
3. Is the observer of my dream still conscious? If so then where?
Answers of these questions will enable us to understand that Reality is Consciousness which is singular and fundamental.
Yes!
Awareness of dreams at night can be either aware that it is a dream (lucid dream) or not aware of it (normal dream).
1 observer is always conscious. Even of the thought "i am dreaming"
2 the observer is neither in the dream or in the universe. Dream and universe happens within him. Like objects are made of chrystallised space time.
The observer is "non local".
Imaging the observer as a point. 5he point implode thus generating space time within itself.
From within that point where is the center: everywhere including where you are.
Now if you collect mail, after a while you might believe that what you do is who you are. You believe you are a mailman.
In a movie theater you feel the story is happening to you.
In your life you think things are happening to you. It is a simplification of "consciousness is perceiving all but remains unchanged so let's test it by forgetting all and being thought exactly the opposite"
I believe it's written Shantena.
Nice to see this again.
Any movement on the part of the observer, if he has not realized that the observer is the observed, creates only another series of images and again he is caught in them. But what takes place When the observer is aware that the observer is the observed? Go slowly, go very slowly, because it is a very complex thing we are going into now. what takes place? The observer does not act at all. The observer has always said, `I must do something about these images, I must suppress them or give them a different shape; he is always active in regard to the observed, acting and reacting passionately or casually, and this action of like and dislike on the part of the observer is called positive action - `I like, therefore I must hold. I dislike therefore I must get rid of.' But When the observer realizes that the thing about which he is acting is himself, then there is no conflict between himself and the image. He is that. He is not separate from that. When he was separate, he did, or tried to do, something about it, but When the observer realizes that he is that, then there is no like or dislike and conflict ceases. - J.Krishnamurti
Yes. "K" was Great! But, Rupert is going way beyond what K said. Rupert here is explaining what Infinity, the Divine Consciousness the Absolute and the relative individual mind is. And what their relationship is! This is way Beyond where K lived!
@@awingnaprayer2003 *facepalm*
They talk about the exact same thing
K was just more focused on setting people free instead of talking about what else is there *once* they become free. His focus was on making people get there themselves as opposed to giving them more "food for thought" which is what happens here -- the ideas of "we are all the one timeless and limitless awareness" are not the reality of it, "the description is not the described" -- talking about these things is pointless (it's fun and entertaining) if people don't actually truly know it thru experiencing
I found that time is movement.
I especially love the camera illustration that begins at 36:43.
I would like to see a discussion and collaboration with these two and also Roger Penrose and Stuart Hameroff ( the latter two are founders of Orch-OR theory of consciousness). I think that may result in interesting developments. Penrose is an exceptional mathematical physicist who has stated that no real further gains in understanding of the physical universe can emerge without first having a theory of consciousness.
Major crushing on Rupert 🙏
Excellent video.Sacrifice,or intrinsic necessity??i am more inclined to the second.
Very very skillful, mr Spira
What a challenge to the mind... and to our understanding!
Amazing!
That was priceless!
8.16: It's limited more than two ways. It's limited in six ways, limitation of time, space, attachment, knowledge, action and illusion of individuality.
Loved this, thank you so much! :)
i channeled myself from the nameless as well too we are on the same page i love u so much keep awakeing the planet
There is no one else like him!
Even twins are not the same exactly. They don't think the same. They have different personalities. Etc.
The dog chasing his own tail knows best what the experience feels like ;) Even if we evolved eyes on our hands, the eye can not see itself in realtime
"separation between intellect and trancendence" - one of Patanjalis yoga sutras - in other words he try to let us understand that we can not comprehend consciousness with our intellect or mind - but must trancend into a higher state of consciousness - in -to silence - to feel it - how are we going to do that? we must meditate to come into the 4th state of consciousness in sanskrit called :"Atma Darchan" which means the place where the soul( Atma )- recognize ( Darchan) - it self. - To know our self which is Consciousness. Then our heart chakra opens and our highest value in life becomes - LOVE -Jet Izabella Thurman - Denmark
The example of camera was amazing to understand consciousness
Infinite potentiality collapses in apparent time and space from the point of view of the observer?
Awareness is Made of Love.
Meditation is the cornerstone of understanding.
Yes. Meditation, introspection.
amazing
Namaste!
Thanks for the interview. Could you invite someone more established in quantum mechanics to speak for the scientific take on reality/consciousness? This guy says in the beginning that matter and consciousness are the same. How's that the view of the quantum mechanics? It's not right to misrepresent science in this forum.
Nikan RT actually it is true and much evidence has been found. Modern quantum theory is pointing to matter being fundamentally informational in nature. That means that the smallest building blocks of matter appear to be just information. You can probably see that probability wavefunctions are informational. And it's not far fetched to see that conciousness is an informational 'field' of sorts... now, this will lead to the ultimate conclusion, you are experiencing a virtual, informational reality... created by conciousness from conciousness.. ergo matter = conciousness. look up digital physics, look up cutting edge quantum mechanics.. look up Thomas Campbell..(calgary lectures on youtube). Rupert is hinting at the door, but that door has been opened, traversed and fully charted for decades now,... catch up.. all the answers are available....
Even information is ultimately a type of object that is created ("imagined") within consciousness. You cannot get behind consciousness.
Shantena Augusto Sabbadini worked as a theoretical physicist at the University of Milan and at the University of California. In Milan he researched the foundations of quantum physics, focusing on the description of the quantum process of observation, a problem that keeps fascinating him up to the present. In California he contributed to the first identification of a black hole.
In terms of the fundamentals - certainly not elementary!- aspects of QM, he is very well versed.
Not all working physicists in this field..the majority I think- either dare or bother- to try to give ontological connections to QM theory. Many also just use the theory because it so far gives correct answers in the physical universe. Sabbadini, and a few others (esp the earlier founders of QM) do give. thought to these things. Its hard to get higher than Roger Penrose in the field of mathematical physics, and though he is careful not to speculate, he hass cited the need for a theory of consciousness if progress in physics is to significantly advance.
Would like to hear a talk between Rupert spira and thomas campbell
hell yeah
infinite illusory finiteness is still infinite.
“And as imagination bodies forth
The forms of things unknown, the poet’s pen
Turns them to shapes and gives to airy nothing
A local habitation and a name”
― William Shakespeare, A Midsummer Night's Dream
To the people listening to this, just know that - even if you may not realize now but God’s grace is already upon you.
There is just this infinite unnameable invisible intimate substance that never ceases to be itself and yet appears to itself as ten thousand things 🙏
- 19:52 onwards
2:30 yes from outside of time the wave never collapse into it s potential. But we believe we are in space time so we look through that belief and see accordingly.
To be out of space time would be: all past future and alternate reality are imagination. Example : i have no past but the past i recall, call again. No future but the future i project.
No other possible universe but the ones i imagine (visit with my mind).
Each present moment is unique.
Each present moment is how i appear.
I meet myself everywhere i am.
That is the best way i can describe eternal timeless spaceless.
Thank you.
Consciousness created the world consciously by limiting itself ? I don't think it's a conscious process because for anything to exist consciousness has to forget itself (it's true nature) or not ? Why should consciousness "superimpose" something (a world) upon itself ?
Curiosity. To experience something other than its own infinity. People dress up in costumes that limit their movements and identity. All to experience something other than themselves. Temporarily. Curiosity is what drives consciousness to explore beyond what it is.
🙏
I love this guy but I wonder if he smoked DMT a few times if he would have to concede his idea that you can only perceive the finite from the perspective of a finite being???
Maybe you could still argue that way but it would change in a non trivial way.
I agree with what you share Rupert except for one thing, which is what he says about how consciousness has to sacrifice to experience being infinite. I don't agree for this reason which is simply that consciousness is All That Is so it simply chooses within that All That is to experience being finite for the experience of being finite, there is no sacrificing in it nor require, it just is, it just chooses. You are somehow placing a label upon consciousness as if it has to somehow sacrifice yet how can consciousness sacrifice anything when it is already All That Is? It can't. Therefore it simply chooses to experience being finite and thus because of it being All That Is it can therefore experience being infinite and finite at once, no sacrificing one for the other as in All That Is ALL exists. In essence the word sacrifice can mean sacri meaning sacred and fice meaning becoming finite thus one could say then that consciousness is choosing in sacredness to be finite yet is infinite at the same moment.
***** Exactly. I agree with what you share here, except I would switch the word sacrifice to surrender. Surrendering to thy will be done. The whole story of Jesus and his actual life is that of a metaphor for this and many other things
***** Hi Steev~ I agree with you fully it is knowing ourself beyond the words that matters indeed ~
***** I agree :)
sathu sathu sathu
27:49: "Nobody has ever experienced the past or the future (in the present moment)". He forgot to add "...in the present moment" ! But we all have experienced the now called past in the past (which was at that time of course the present moment according to the concept of linear time). There is of course a big difference if you REMEMBER an orgasm in the now, or if you EXPERIENCE it in the now.
The scientist has collapsed the duality in his understanding, amazing
I started to share this with others
Until I realized that you would have to already know Ruperts Mary & Jane dream metaphor
没看懂
technically you can experience the past and the future.. but you have to be precise with what you mean... You can visit the probable future... many people have precognitions... you can visit the actualized past and the unactualized past.. but all of this requires understanding of how the data is stored and accessed, but just don't say nobody can do it, because some people can..
shaunDMA My take is slightly different.
The past is what we remember which is bound to be an interpretation of what went on when we WERE
in the past. The future is what we imagine, it can never be the REAL future.
We therefore cannot and never will experience the past and the future.
dubunking The past also includes everything that didn't happen. It's just data and together with probability values. The past also includes things you can't remember or even never experienced, it's just all there as data. From what I've heard, the people that can access this data also have to be very precise in formulating the requested queries. and yes, you are correct that everything past and future is subjective. Even revisiting past actualised data will allways be subjectivly experienced again, and so will never be the same. There is no conciousness without interpretation, just like there is no coffee without coffee in it :)
shaunDMA I am glad you agree with me that we can never 'know' the past. It is bound to be subjective. Rather, we remember it. As we all know, memory is subjective and it is a creative process rather than a photocopy.
What we have not experienced (either directly or indirectly) we will never know anyway.
Rupert is right in always trying to get us in touch with our experience and resist the temptation to jump to theory or beliefs, as the latter tend to be even more subjective at best, at worse, they have a tendency to cloud our consciousness.
no its impossible for someone to experience past or future, the very meaning of past and future makes it impossible to happen, past refers to "not now" as does future, then theres the othe distinction that one has far more potential/capacity
even if someone has a precognition that doesnt mean there visiting the past or future, sure they can "experience" a mental-story but that happens now, it cant happen in the past.
The word "as if" should appear when we say the Universal Consciousness "as if" forgets itself. or makes a concession ... In reality it doesn't. What is not existing in the past nor in the future but appears "as if" a reality in the present has no ultimate reality. The Universal Consciousness like the ocean may give appearance as waves etc but it reality it doesn't become anything other than itself.
Here lies a hint, in response to what Rupert said at about 19:00. He said that God's mind is the image of the finite world seen by limited minds. But how can this be? It is absurd, how can infinite consciousness have a finite representation of itself? Thus by his very concession, God must have an answerable representation of Himself as He is, and it cannot be the world, which is a temporal reflection in a sempiternal change. It is the Logos that is His exact mind as the Bible teaches, the Verb who is God of God and also became flesh in time and space, so that he be all in all already from before time and space during the eternal change and after anytime and space.
Rupert and you both require a buy in or agreed upon assumptions inyour points, thus not actually proving anything.
We are CIA,constant integrated awareness.
W
6.30 when you remove a finite quantity from infinity, infinity still remains infinite, He is not correct here. ॐ पूर्णमदः पूर्णमिदं पूर्णात् पूर्णमुदच्यते। पूर्णस्य पूर्णमादाय पूर्णमेवावशिष्यते॥ It is complete here, complete there. complete emerges from complete and when complete is taken out from complete, the remainder is still complete.
i feel like much of what they say is virtually meaningless, but that's just me. what i mean is that this "knowledge" really cannot be applied in any meaningful way or to any great effect. i put knowledge in quotation marks because of course none of their explanations can be verified. such explanations are basically their own subjective narratives. furthermore, if you're going to construct a narrative to explain the nature of reality with the means that we have at the moment, that is to say with the language that is available to us right now, why not use your imagination* and construct a really magical and thus inspiring narrative? i don't know...
+tonyfalca well, the statements may or may not be confirmed by yourself.
rhubarbcheese
...
It's more direct than that, you say subjective narrative, but you come to the realisation by going beyond yourself, beyond ego, beyond the voice in your head that gives life the feeling of 'my' life; you can call that subjective in a sense. But have you ever experienced life from a perspective other than your own? If you were somebody else wouldn't you still be you, or more accurately, you'd still be 'I' and so would I. And everybody else. Check out Ramana Maharshi if you haven't, also, have you experimented with LSD? Those kind of experiences give you a taste of what's being discussed here. Peace x
_leafhouse _
and what makes you think that i haven't "[gone] beyond myself, beyond ego, beyond the voice in [my] head that gives life the feeling of `my` life"?
i have experimented with all sorts of drugs. it's still quite obvious, at least to me, that what he has said and you espouse is a subjective narrative and nothing more; of course it's not "the voice in [his] head", but rather 'the voice *of* his head'. sure, you may identify with whatever it is that he says, but that makes it neither objective nor "truth" or "knowledge".
@@joebazooks You should read "Eye to eye - The quest for the new paradigm", by Ken Wilber. You will see how the mystical process is a perfectly scientific process, which leads to an "objective" experience (in the sense that, by respecting a defined procedure, everyone has the possibility of having this experience). Afterwards, there is of course the interpretation that one makes to account for it...
God descends in time and space for human race to ascend.
No. Spiritual is not a seesaw reality.
God doesn't come down. God simply is. The finite aspect is the result of the playfulness and adventuresomeness of the divine self.
@ Mohamed Ladha Ladha
What you write is right, but only if you add that time and space, the human race and its ascendancy are nothing but God Himself, or more precisely God's expression Itself.
But, since there is nothing outside of God (otherwise God would not be God), His creation cannot be something other than Himself.
:0 !
Infinite conciousness only seems to have changed into time and space and forms in order for experience to appear. But it never really happened 😉
Ultimately we have to give up this believe that our reality consists of separate forms in time and space. Ultimately we will stop fighting the truth and accept what is always true, that we are infinite consciousness.
Point ❤️
The entire universe which includes space, time, matter, body, senses, brain and words is unconscious. Consciousness alone which is the ultimate source of words, which is hearing these words and which is understanding these words is conscio The entire universe which includes space, time, matter, body, senses, brain and words is unconscious. Consciousness alone which is the ultimate source of words, which is hearing these words and which is understanding these words is conscious. That’s what I am, you are and everybody is. Am I right, Rupert? us. That’s what I am, you are and everybody is. Am I right, Rupert?
A very nice set of beliefs but that is all they are. When this can be experienced perhaps then it will have merit...then of course we would know the mind of the infinite and by definition that is inscrutable and beyond definition.
I'm sorry but you are Very confused. These statements that Rupert makes are not beliefs, or theories, these are statements that he is making based on Direct Observation of the mind and the Clarity of perfect Reasoning. If you can understand what he is saying, you will see that the Great Teachings based on Enlightened Wisdom of the Tao Te Ching, the Buddha, the Diamond Sutra, the Great Advaitic texts of Advaita Vedanta, Ramana Maharshi etc. are all contained in his Direct Observation of Reality. If you have not studied the aforementioned Teachings and haven't spent years meditating nor have you had any direct realization or Spiritual Awakening experience then yes, you might not understand what is being said here in this video. Namaste'.
it's called a tetralemma
You are the consciousness that you are talking about. It is not something out there. You are it. There are no your consciousness and infinite Consciousness. And you are misinterpreting and misperceiving and mis-experiencing yourself as subject and objects dualities. There's no l apart from Consciousness.
I feel like with all the word salad being spewed about, it creates vague testimonials. An autistic dream. All use similar words to convey differences of perception.
420th like
words and concepts don't point to inherently real things
Rupert make me think of Jordan Peterson
Rupert Spira for President!
Dude has the skinniest arms I've ever seen, no joke!
Lmao yo u funny as hell
Augusto has lost himself... :DD
Once again Rupert is on a completely different level from everyone else here, you can see it in his body language, the way he speaks, his motions and facial expressions, notice how still and calm he is while sitting, he truly is an enlightened being, or a true ascended/descended master of eastern teaching, or just a plain genius whether you wish to label him as an abstract quack teaching pseudo psychology, he still makes a point in wgat he says.. like that of eckhart tolle and osho, on a completely different level here, in the past you could say Buddha or Jesus, simple, practical communication with a profound d impact.