Super Earth empire teleports into 40K *5 minutes later in the Warp* Khorn: “what do you mean you’re the new god of democracy? What the hell is a democracy?”
@@Quincy_Morris Columbus, New God of Liberty: _”It is a beautiful thing, brother Khorne, perhaps even more beautiful than the art of your bloodshed. Many souls acting as one, not for honor or for glory, but for the sake of all their fellows. Brothers, hand in hand, lending their opinions to the maelstrom, creating new and more wonderful things as new ideas come and flourish. It is a thing men call Democracy, but it is a thing I call “perfection.”_
it took 10 000 years for the Imperium that actually have a concrete image of the God Emperor to manifest him with godly powers, and still not on par with the big four. The Eldar needed to murderfucked Slanesh into existence for millions of years a numerical inferior faction chanting an obscure catchphrase would NOT manifest a new god
"poorly trained" "Helldiver starts using whatever weapon they touch with high effectiveness under heavy fire, beats robots by wacking with his gun ripping pieces of them, maniacly happy about sacrificing himself for super earth and democracy not just out of duty and loyalty but out of joy he feels because he is being sacrificed for freedom"
it is lore accurate and canon in the helldivers universe, that the helldivers and seaf people are really poorly trained (for example im pretty sure its confirmed the average helldiver gets 6-8 weeks of training and the normal seaf soldier gets 1-2 weeks)
@tedddropdead i dont think its true for the record but even if it was, i would still not call them "poorly trained" since i can see how proficient they are with my own eyes, so the 6-8 weeks training they get must be extremely effective, it litterally produces super soldiers capable of 1v50 supersized bugs, barely penetrable war machines and technologically advanced seafood in an unconventional environment where they engage enemy behind their lines
@rjw4149 my god!!! its unbelivable how people love not thinking about the information they recieve. Average helldiver squad goes into mission that is against hundereds sometimes thousands of enemies and generally complete their mission killing 50 enemies on average before dying. Even if they die +20 times per mission its still impressive what they achieve. Cannon fodder means expendable and not "untrained", "incompetent". Every soldier, every citizen, every officer, everyone except for the ruling class in super earth is expendable. That doesnt mean they are untrained and incompetent. Every modern real life nation's military would wish they had as competent cannon fodders as an average helldiver
@@aidanrose1943 space marines are pretty tough, right up until there’s a red beacon laying by their feet. I’m fairly certain they’re just as vulnerable to orbital bombardment as anybody else
@@aidanrose1943I would believe that statement more when your talking about Dreadnought's, those things can tank WAY more firepower then a Space Marine.
@@aidanrose1943A self-proclaimed God* Space Marines are not invulnerable, their armor is tough, yes but they’re useless against anti-tank weapons. Which Helldivers have many of these weapons. A single shot from recoiless rifle will handle a space marine just fine and a squad can do absolutely nothing once they get hit by a 500kg.
where do people get this idea helldivers are poorly trained, they join the military at age 7, the helldivers training at age 18 has a 22% survival rate. The ingame tutorial is just a ceremony at the end of their training. The entire society they come from is completely based around the military and war, it's the equivalent to spartan society basically. If you don't want to believe that just watch gameplay, they can run across a map for 40 minutes straight covered in armour carrying heavy weaponry, they are completely proficient with every weapon they use, they can hack systems and operate mechanical machinery. Each helldiver is backed by a destroyer. To top it all off you can say the average lifespan is 2 minutes but being dropped into a situation where you are dropped behind enemy lines surrounded by 1000's of enemies that are much stronger than you physically and they can still with only a handful of helldivers complete all objectives kill 1000's of enemies and extract like where is this idea coming from that they're just random people off the street given some armour and a gun it's so stupid. Also I think it's worth pointing out that as an elite force they still probably have millions of personnel, so contemplate the probable billions that are in the regular army that will be still somewhat near helldiver levels of proficiency considering the whole spartan society aspect. Take into account peak numbers for the game their helldivers ships combined as a naval force would be over 300,000 destroyers at the least. Keep in mind there is an actual navy that super earth has with actual warships bigger than destroyers probably totalling in the millions. They're borderline already living in the 40k universe with the scales we could be possibly talking about, all they're missing is the warp. The normal helldiver is practically a space marine without biological enhancements and power armour.
@@dylan-jd8br they don’t even need the warp/are better than the imperium due to that fact and their Alcubiere Drives provide almost instant FTL travel.
They don't join the military at 7, no, they receive their first weapon at 7, their society is based around militarism and like every militarist society, they have military camps for those interested in the army (which is most of the kids) they dont train them like soldiers but they receive knowledge and etc, like modern military academies.
Helldivers 100% are elite fighters but I wouldn’t put them on par with a space marine (not that you have) I’d say they’d be equivalent if not slightly better than tempestus scions
They also operate their destroyer, strategems, all sorts of energy and high calibre weapons , hack terminals, go after high value targets, probably trained to sustain g force while in hellpod, operate nuclear silos etc.
I think the reverse-engineering of the Super Earth is its major advantage. In the Imperium, the use of Xeno technology is considered heresy, but Super Earth has no such problems. Whatever they could find in Aeldar, Necrons or Tau worlds, they would surely use.
That's cute you think they'd survive long enough to do anything in the 40k universe much less reverse engineer tech... I like them, they are a fun group of humans but come on... They have about 21st century weaponry or a little better, the damn lasgun does the damage of a .50 BMG a 7.32 nato is not going to do much to nids, orks, tau armor or chaos deamons or chaos astartes. They would be toast rather fast if they stayed on one world for long.
The ad mech reverse engineer things all the time, but since they're only in alliance with the Imperium they keep a lot of stuff to themselves, when they do give something to the Imperium they say it was "rediscovered". The ad mech are the whole reason the necrons are waking up because they wanted that tech.
@taliawtf6944 my brother in democracy you forgot that even the basic handguns can kill a machine made out of steel, so we can presume the ammo of the rifles, machine guns, their laser weapons, and explosives would be enough to take down whatever undemocratic lifeform they find
Super Earth spawns into the 40k universe. 5 minutes later the Helldivers are an Imperial regiment on par with the Elysian Drop Troopers with double the fanaticism because the God Emperor is the ultimate manager of democracy. That or Super Earth gets a tour of the webway offered by the Drukharii. Whoever notices them first.
@@ZrrMe the don’t need the webway, Helldivers would probably be a substantial threat because of their FTL travel, which their Alcubiere drives are faster by a long run compared to warp travel.
@@Abb0able Yeah, a ship that in WH40k would do shit, mostly the Helldivers if they were an Imperial Regiment by their own, no Imperium technology, they would get massacred in every encounter they fight.
@@nosense8744 super destroys are small, but they make up for that by having crazy firepower. They are glass cannons. Also to inform you the Helldiver Corps Super Destroyer is not the Super Earth Navy, the Navy has larger vessels.
@@glukhar_agapov9990 Ok, right, but you really think any Super Earth Vessel will be capable to even destroy thr weakest battleship? Frigates are large as heck, 1km for a Frigate (Depends the class but Battle frigates are about this size while the escort ones are the size of a SD) Ok, maybe they can damage an imperial vessel but what about the Necrons? Tau? Eldar? CHAOS which is just the imperium but better and disorganized or even the ORKS AND TYRANIDS those mf can gather thousands of vessels in a matter of nothing and most of those are as resistant as a cruiser.
I firmly believe the Helldivers 2 achieve a WAAAAH! The fanaticism for Managed Democracy would somehow tap into the immaterium similar to how the Sisters of Battle can call miracles down through their fervor.
Helldivers are well trained if you even go to the lore of super earth you’ll find that most kids are more trained than a adult that just started the military and if you see the game play of helldivers they can use every single weapon stratagem basically any weapon perfectly and fine because a random dude from the street can’t use sniper rifle in fact reloading is hard unless your trained and we see that helldivers use every weapon perfectly plus to even be a helldiver you need a few years of seaf experience and the tutorial is just the final exam of the helldiver plus aren’t tutorial’s supposed to be short and fast saying that helldivers aren’t trained is wanna the most internet thing I’ve ever heard Edit: super earth can destroy planets with the dark fluid and even if they run out its said that a super destroyer can level a small moon so a few super destroyers would destroy the surface of a planet
Space marines and Helldivers fighting together would be my absolute Powerfantasy. Just imagine, Space Marines holding a fortified position, blasting everything with bolters, helldivers between them calling in barrages or orbital lasers and every time a Helldiver dies a hellpod drops on the largest enemy.
Super earth is in possession of the one thing that can defeat chaos, hope. The Imperium cannot allow hope to exist,because it is a threat to the power of the Ecclesicarchy
@@jamesricker3997 that and also not really believing “gods” per say. Isn’t that why the Tau have a small signature towards Chaos, is because they don’t “believe/perceive” them as gods.
It's literally hope and faith to the Emperor of Mankind or now called the God-Emperor of Mankind that Imperium still afloats, what the fuck are you smoking at? no, superearth are mortals and can be easily susceptible to corruption.
About the average guardman. Do not mistake conscripts and normal guards. Some regiments are even pretty much elites in themselves with a long history of veterancy and specialists like: Elysean Troops, Armaggeddon Steel Legion, Catachan jungle fighters,... Medias often show them as pitiable and unskilled to show off how great the Space Marines are. But the Guard hold the line and win where Marines ran away in the deep lore. Some SM chapters are very infamous for refusing to help because they don't want to suffer loss -> Iron Hands. Fun Fact: The lasgun you look down upon can be sacrificed as an improvised grenade to take down a space marine or at least incapacitate him. Thank you for reading my little rant.
Realistically Helldivers and SEAF forces are decently trained, we are getting the gameplay tongue in cheek treatment, but Helldivers and the SEAF forces are not only fighting, but also winning a galactic war, you don't do that unless your troops have a certain level of competence beyond sheer luck. And helldivers canonically have conquered worlds with only 50 divers or so, so they have to be competent and capable. The most likely thing that happens is that Helldivers are uploaded with advanced combat tactics and weapons training during cold sleep and when a Helldiver is sent to replace a casualty, they are uploaded with a short data burst that tells them what is going on in the current operation so that they can immediately replace the Helldiver that they are replacing.
Although their is a problem that Imperial Guard looks down universally at PDF units due to they view them as fully inferior even though the Imperial Guard force has suffered multiple defeats against PDF forces so they have a bad habit of looking down at other human forces that isn't Imperial guard.
This was great and provoked a lot of thought like below. I don't disagree that Super Earth's intelligence and propaganda arms could handle Chaos' corrupting ways, but I guess I'd disagree that the they would not see the warp and chaos as possible resources to exploit. Especially keeping in mind(if I remember correctly) that the Emperor used warp manipulation to make the original Primarchs, the Ministry of Humanity may consider interacting with Tzeench to get psycher soldiers or the Ministry of Science and Truth may consider tapping into Tzeench to see how that God works. Ministry of Humanity and Science may consider studying Nurgle's ability to shrug off illness and damage; Prosperity may be convinced Slaanesh might make the people more content(if Prosperity tilt's its head when it looks at Slaanesh); and Ministry of Defense and Truth might enjoy how much Khorne get's their Helldivers reaved up for the fight. I think you're entirely right about the Mechanicus wanting to take Super Earth's stuff, but I don't know if the Empire at large wouldn't see the Super Earth as just another set of rebellious worlds. Which does beg the question of scale. Helldivers are a galactic sized empire(if I remember correctly), did all of them get transported or just Super Earth itself in this scenario?
In this scenario, I basically transported the most populated systems under Super Earth's control. Trying to harness Chaos is a one way road to corruption though, but it's interesting to consider what would happen exactly.
@@RedHierophant23 I actually think that a single system would work out better for Super Earth. Like Rome, they are obviously capable of expanding to empire status from just one small place(comparatively), and if they started off fighting all over the galaxy at once before knowing what is happening, they may just be strained for resources and spread thin like the Imperium. Even though a Chaos take over of Super Earth would be interesting, I think your concept of a new Chaos god of "Managed Democracy" coming into existence is far more a interesting concept. Part of me wonders if it would eventually take over the AI as that is the core of Managed Democracy in a similar way that the Emperor's throne acts like a beacon that can sometime emanate cryptic messages.
@@cheynewillingham2107 Funny thought, because the believing population vastly outnumber the cynical manipulators who know what's actually going on, said Chaos God would actually reflect the propaganda, rather than the reality. (and thus potentially join Gulliman and the Emperor in the Ultradepression club.)
Helldivers have alot more combined arms advantage for every soldier, they most likely would lose just to the amount of industry and manpower the imperium has however.
You fail to realize that Super Earth is basically the entire Milky Way Galaxy under human control. Their logistics/industry rival or probably out perform the Imperium.
But Muh titans! (ICBM) But Muh Psykers! (guns work just fine on shielded Illuminates) But Muh Fortress worlds! (Every. Single. Super destroyer carries enough ordinance to obliterate a 'small moon' according to random ship master dialogue.) In all due seriousness, Super Earth is more 40k (or perhaps 30k) than most may want to consider (I mean your super destroyers are manufactured on *Mars* for liberty's sake!) but sleeker and better organized, complete with technological regression too! Example: Reinforcing in the first galactic war was possible due to 'Flash Cloning', while Reinforcing in Helldivers 2 is possible because when you finish your training you are the last of a ship load of trainees who are all issued to the same ship (further reinforced by the Democracy officer dialogue "I only regret that I have but one ships worth of lives to give to our cause") Now, go out there and make your (Duly & fairly elected) Emperor proud.
You say that like that stuff doesn’t all exist in the 40K universe as well, only cranked up to 11. Guns exists in 40K, yet Psykers are still a very real threat. Cadia took the brunt of countless chaos incursions, many led by ships that could more than destroy a moon with the firepower they held, and still stood firm. Deathstrike missiles, virus bombs, cyclonic torpedos, all of these cause massive devastation but yet, aren’t a “push button to win” weapon. The 40K universe is overpowered to the extreme, and that’s half of the fun of it. The Imperium encounters civilizations with better tech and soldiery than Super Earth in the Great Crusade and all of them are no more. I think Super Earth would put up a solid fight in the 40K galaxy, but would likely ground down by the sheer weight of all that is trying to kill them. Tyranids and Necrons alone would be a nightmare, as they are for any faction that encounters them, and their lack of knowledge on what Chaos is/can do would be a serious detriment and leave them open for corruption/possession.
bullets do work on psykers, if they are not projecting a psychic shield, watch astartes. psykers can also tear holes in reality (on purpose or accident) summoning eldritch horrors from hell (chaos daemons) which are not particularly susceptible to damage, think ethereal ghost with physical bullets passing through harmlessly, hence daemon hunters with specialist equipment, they dont die either, just go back to hell for time out. titans have star ship grade energy shields. watch the horus heresy trailer to get an idea. fortress worlds have ground based lasers designed for destroying ships in the void of space. thats not getting into necrons, or astartes. 1 on 1 hell divers are likely the equivalent of a tempestus scion skill and equipment wise.
Psykers can actively stop projectiles with their minds, illuminates aren’t the same as psykers, curious how heavy ordinance works Titans, it exists in 40K but they are still viable, can be chalked up to plot but still, and destroying a small moon , and the exterminatus from the Imperium are different levels, especially since inquisition carriers have enough ammunition to glass several unreliable worlds. Actually if you think about it, Bile Titans and automaton Stalkers (AT&AT things) are tiny versions of titans that can survive 500KG bombs so Super Earth likely doesn’t have anything that can effectively take out a titan
@@brickphone8069 dont forget imperial titans are also equipped with void shields so they would have to get through those first before hitting the titan itself
@@DarkMaster2522 Yeah, I don’t think HellDiver Stratagems could take out a Titan, they’d likely just be an incredibly well funded Guardsmen Regiment since they’re numbers and wargear is a lot better than Guardsmen Gear and they seem to have real training. I do see the Imerpium absorbing them and then reallocating their funding and resources, tuning stratagem tech
Super Earth honestly kind of wins 40k. They are completely Chaos and Genestealer immune thanks to their extremely high control over population. They might lack a proper space marine, sure, but I riddle you this - what will happen when a Helldiver throws a Railcannon at a Marine? You get a dead Marine. Imperium only has around 2 million Marines after the Primaris project. Even if each Helldiver died instantly after that one throw, Super Earth can spam a few million Helldivers and not really feel the difference. Also, I highly disagree with the threat of Dark Eldar - Imperium's reaction speed is INCREDIBLY slow. A planet will on average get reinforced after 2 years (yes, YEARS) after the distress call is sent and only when it is a full scale invasion. Super Earth usually knows what is happening within minutes and responds also within minutes, simply because of how fast their FTL is. Dark Eldar get annihilated every single time they try to raid any SE planet. Super Earth is literally like Dark Eldar on mega steroids. They warp in a stupid amount of ships. Those ships all deploy Helldivers on the surface. The planet get's conquered within 1-2 days on average. Imperium responds quickly and sends a fleet in 3 months. Now several things can happen - either SE tries to contest this, or gives up. If it gives up, the planet get's reconquered literally days after the Imperial fleet leaves and everything goes back to square one for the Imperium. If SE tries to contest, then the fighting looks like this: SE warps in a stupid amount of small ships all at once, they all fire a few salvos and instantly jump out. Imperium has basically no ability to deal with this sort of space warfare. Sure, some SE ships will get destroyed, but they have an EXTREMELY efficient war industry even in comparison to the real world - compared to the Imperium, there is abslutely no contest, SE just outproduces them per capita maybe even hundreds to one. The other option is that Imperium will deploy a stupid amount of Guardsmen to garrison a planet, after it had been conquered and reconquered several times. In that case, SE can simply... Nuke the planet into oblivion. It's not like they lack explosives - a single 170 m long Super Destoryer can level a small moon, taking a few thousands and firing at one planet will rip it's surface apart. After finally realising that ALL fights against Super Earth will look like that, Imperium does the only winning move they can - assemble a large fleet and send it to siege Super Earth's core worlds one by one. This fleet can not be intercepted until it enters the system, because of how Warp travel works, but in general Imperial ships usually leave warp at the edge of the star system to not collide with anything by an accident. This is now a test of kill speed basically - can Super Earth destroy huge Imperial ships fast enough that the siege fails? Super Earth will of course use the rapid jump in and out tactics, as it is the most sensible for them. Here, I believe that Imperium in general has enough ships to successfuly siege and destroy/capture those worlds. But it does not have enough ships to do this while at the same time dealing with all other factions. Imperium wins 1v1, but loses in actual setting. The fleet retreats, defeated. SUper Earth wins vs Imperium Super Earth wins vs Eldar of all varieties, as they do what Eldar do, but way better. Mechanicus might have Arks that will be problematic, but nothing SE can't handle with jump swarming. Orks are honestly laughable. It would be like fighting Imeprium that can not shoot back properly. Yeah, they are more numerous and usually tougher, but that does not really make a difference for jump swarming in space and airstrikes on the surface. Tau lose, unless they can reverse-engineer Super Earth's FTL. Even then, SE has higher population control and is more militarised than Tau. Tyranids are a problem for sure. They can deal with a hive fleet, but several at once will most likely cost them a lot. Necrons are the only actual threat. SE "technically" can deal with a World Engine by injecting it with Dark Fluid enough, but it is not a realistic option. Overall, Necron tech is simply better than SE's and their reaction time can make them a massive problem for jump swarming tactics. So yeah. They not only survive - they THRIVE. As long as they do not piss off Necrons too much.
@@kompatybilijny9348 Two names: Roboute Guilleman and Lion El Johnson 😂 It will be a field day for both Primarchs dealing with Super Earth and will Super colonized them and incorporate them into the Imperium with ease.
@@kompatybilijny9348 plus Belasarius Claw will reverse engineer FTL of Super Earth and incorporate them on imperium ships cause he doesn't give a damn about tech Heresy 😂😂 Overall Super Earth is done the moment the Primarchs decides to step in. Super Earth will prosper under the benevolent rule of the Emperor 😊😊
@@debasishgoswami9896 Primarchs are good at directly fighting. Tell me, how well a silightly bigger human fares in space battles? Not that good. Even with their regeneration and plot armour, Imperium simply lacks the technology to win against the jump swarm tactics. Super Earth has no flagship that can be boarded by a Primarch and instantly win the battle.
Yeah I hate to say it, but Super Earth would get stomped. The Imperium controls the entire civilized galaxy, and they’re just _barely_ holding on by a thread
The Imperium is far too large for it's own good. A smaller Empire like the Tau can survive just fine, because the bulk of the attention is always focused on the Imperium. Super Earth has enough tech and abilities that would permit them to just slip through the cracks. I feel like a big point on their side is also their ability to reverse engineer stuff and if they managed to ally with the Imperium, they could easily survive. Like I said on the video, Super Earth fought a worn on THREE FRONTS and WON. That's really impressive, in my opinion.
Counterpoint: Super Earth fought the entire rest of the galaxy. No, not "most of" No, not "a lot of" No, not "the majority of" The ENTIRE rest of the galaxy. By themselves. The bugs, cyborgs, and illuminates weren't fighting one another, and they owned the ENTIRE rest of the galaxy in the First Galactic War. The Imperium struggles while controlling 60% of the Milky Way. Super Earth bodied its way through the entire Milky Way, conquered and defeated all their foes, then REINTRODUCED THEM so they would have MORE enemies to fight. Super Earth can't even fall to Chaos, due to managed democracy.
@@ZeroNumerous That doesnt mean anything since these two fictional worlds are populated by different kinds of factions and enemies. Just pecause super earth thrived in their version of the milky way doesnt mean they are necessarily well equipped to deal with the shit the 40K milky way is packing
@@RedHierophant23While that’s partially right the Tau are a faction that is only alive due to being neglected by other major factions, they are nearly invisible to chaos and that kept them safe early on, Super Earth citizens would have bright souls and would attract the full wrath of chaos along with whatever enemies are nearby, their biggest assets are their ftl travel and fleets, their ground soldiers stand no chance against anything other than the most basic infantry of each faction, they’d live as long as they went unnoticed but the Helldivers and Super Earth the most hostile obnoxious force in their galaxy so they likely won’t be quite and be put down by nearest 40K faction they find
@@ZeroNumerousManaged Democracy wouldn’t remove human emotions and tactics, plus the forces they dealt with are far weaker compared to 40K forces, if they up their tech they could maybe keep up, but they legitimately have nothing to deal with bullshit like a Bloodthirster
My projection on how this might go: Super Earth's elite forces occupy a unique role in the Imperium of Mankind's vast military apparatus. Granted rare sanction by Gulliman acting on the Emperors orders, and having their own treaty with Mars brokered by the Primarch himself, Imperial Guard Generals either rejoice at learning Helldiver reinforcements are here (Notice I did not say 'on the way' as they often bear the message of their own arrival faster than any but an Imperial Courier, while often bringing forward messages themselves.) or dread their appearance. Side note: The Imperial Courier's are a large part of Super Earth's Tithe to the Imperium, advanced FTL ships modeled on the Super Destroyers design that provide direct message transference service for time critical messages. Data transfer duty between forgeworlds of the Adeptus Mechanicus are part of the Mars Treaty as well. Because Super Destroyers are as fast as the Courier brethren, Helldiver deployments can also mean updated orders for Imperial forces in a battle zone. Rumors of Super Destroyer/Imperial Courier ships with Inquisitorial markings are absolutely true, despite official denials. Like the Imperial Knights, Titan Legions and the Space Marines themselves, Helldiver deployments can be requested but not compelled, and rejecting the 'offer' of Helldiver support is a politically difficult proposition for an Imperial Guard General or even Planetary Governor. Comparatively, Imperial Guard regiments that are assigned to aid Super Earth's Federation in defending it's holdings (akin to how Ultramar is a subdivision of the Imperium, and carved out of former Xenos territory bordering the Segmentum Solar.) usually end up in high spirits, as they find the SEAF a cut above most planetary defense forces. There is some risk of cultural misunderstandings due to the seeming Xenofarming of 'Terminids' by the Super Earth Federation, so Imperial Guard regiments who have a service history relating to the Tyranids are generally not given such duties. Those Imperial Guard Generals who do appreciate Helldiver support often understand how to motivate them and how their peculiar dialect of low gothic informs their use of high gothic. In general, the Helldivers are given an objective where collateral damage is a virtue and allowed to operate independently. One exception to this is during sieges. When imperial civilian populations are behind enemy lines and holding out against them, Helldivers are one of the few support options available to the Imperium that can do enough damage to turn the tide of a siege. (Aside from Space Marines, who are far less numerous.) That being said, the use of Helldivers in regular pitched battles has gained some traction among the tactica, as few foes can pick out the single infantryman directing the orbital fire support, and it is far easier to ensure said support is not disrupted (removing much of a Helldiver's strategic value) with the army than behind enemy lines. The Imperial Navy hold a remarkable contempt for the Super Destroyers (As they see Helldivers as ordinance.) due to often needing to provide escorts for them to ensure their successful operation planeside. That being said, the Navy does enjoy gunnery contests for precision orbital bombardment and Admirals who favor swarms of lighter vessels are often glad to bring such improved orbital bombardment capacity to the defense of humanity. The Space Marines reaction to the Helldivers can be as varied as relations between the Marines and the Imperial Guard, and often as quietly condescending. Bonus fun: On the tabletop, a Helldiver is generally taken akin to an Imperial Assassin, just with a focus on orbital bombing stratagems. Though easily killed if caught in the open, they do have impressive personal firepower depending on wargear choices, with weapons that fill any role one might need quite well... often ignored by players in favor of having 'all the orbitals'. A common sacrificial tactic is to have them deep strike into the field and immediately throw out a powerful orbital strike marker, fully accepting the Helldiver will be dead by next turn and trusting the 'Reinforcements' rule to bring them back into reserves afterwards. (It is only a 1 in 6 chance to fail on the first time after all.) Suddenly needing to not be near an objective to control it, for fear of 380mm devastation can swing a game by itself, so say nothing of the Helldiver's absurdly high objective control value. (More than an entire squad of most troops in a single model.)
Helldivers are not poorly trained, just one is the equivalent of an Army on their own, it takes a few named ultramarines to do the impossible, key word being named, the rest are cannon fodder by comparison, meanwhile the Helldivers are just that, no names, they're the equivalent of special forces, in the SEAF, the ones that get called in when being diplomatic doesn't work.
Guardsmen aren't poorly trained, and a lasgun is only poor against 40k level of targets. You'd be terrified of a criminal armed with a lasgun in our modern day. An army with them would be unstoppable.
Everytime someone says "poorly trained" and "15 minutes of training" is a dolt with no knowledge of Helldivers lore and that they suck at playing the game because only a traitor dies so easily.
Imperial Guard are not cannon fodder, nor are they poorly equipped, that's a common misconception. Imperial Guard are the best picked troops from the planetary defence forces and are well trained and prepared troops. It's just that they often have to fight unreasonably overpowered enemies using reasonable tactics, which leads to high losses, since you're putting up an average human against larger, stronger and occasionally faster enemies. Their strength lies in combined arms tactics rather than individual soldiers. If they were to be cannon fodder, Imperium would've lost every single war pretty damn quickly. Also average lifespan of an imperial guardsman is counted in hours rather than minutes, which obviously gives the idea which army has worse training and treated like a cannon fodder. But otherwise I can see them siding with the Imperium as it would make the most sense, since both of these factions are human-centric, have shared goals and fight clearly hostile aliens. Imperium are the only good guys in warhammer 40k from a human perspective.
@@jasonsaalbach5786 Yeah but most of the time the Guard Regiment are very well hardened, there was even a time where 3 of the most well known and elite regiments along with the grey knights, ecclisearchy foot soldiers, sisters of battle and some more space marine chapters got steamrolled in 3 hours by a fucking Hive Fleet.
@@nosense8744 Not exactly most most info we have are on ones of note but the Imperium has habbits of sending regiments to areas of combat they will perform horribly on like sending a very posh cavily unit to fight in the jungles. but their are several numbers of green forces as well with the huge casualties the Imperium has so you do have battle hardened units as well as green units as well.
I agree, except that you might be misinterpreting the lifespan. The lifespan mentioned for Helldivers is the absolute minimum, meaning that they are pretty much guaranteed to survive for minutes. In real life, this is usually counted in seconds.
@@OswaldM_14 Well it's the average lifespan not the normal so I would say considering how dangerous the missions are ya you can have casualty rates like that while having very well trained guys. or even afteragely trained. Although tenchically if you look further every person in super earth seems to have weapons training and gurrillia tactics training as almost standard education for at least civilians.
Oh their is one major problem also with a difference between super earth and the Imperium and this would be huge compaired to the two how fast the Imperium responds compaired to Super Earth. Super Earth responds pretty fast to things that happen with in the length of days to weeks for the imperiun if can take years to centuries before the Imperium responds to things. Their is a real possibility that Super Earth could take over a subsector (at worst case senario...actually worst case senario is an entire sector) and dig itself in and fortiry itself to heck augmenting the defenses and fleets it has as well as improving and training all civilians in every hive city basic weapons training and how to conduct gurrilla warfare. And if we go by how things to the Imperium is more likely to completely underestimate the threat the first time and it would also raise a question as to how much forces they could raise againt Super Earth while they will respond and attack they also have to worry about the constant fights with enemies every where so they don't want to weaken a front to much. So we might have a battle fleet or crusade that's much weaker than normal due to they underestimated the problem.
The Imperium takes centuries to respond, yes but this is because every sector fleet is capable to deal with a Black Crusade (Thousands of Chaos Space ships), and even taking a Planet for SE will cost much more than expected, pretty much almost all of the invading force, and even if they manage to take one planet, once the notice arrives to Guillinman or a Lord Admiral about a new threat they would go on crusade since right now the imperium is not in good place to understimate their foes. The civil populance will pretty much riot and kill the Helldivers and SEAF before the Imperium arrives IF THEY ARE LUCKY, if not then chaos will react to them first. But if the Imperium arrives, they have literall no way to even hit and Imperial Ship, this is because the void shieds, then the guardsman will arrives, better prepared, trained and hardened troops with much more technological equipment, tanks with armor capable or resisting several missiles, Space Marines soldiers so fast that can kill a dozen of SEAF members in a rush, orbital bombardments that can tear apart HIVE cities, not normal cities, HIVE. And all of this in the millions (Except for the ships, Space Marines and Bombardments)
@@nosense8744 if that's true then the Tau couldn't be able to even take Imperium ships and apparently in some novels now the Tau actually took over HIve worlds and they have less troops available than SE. And unlikley they woulr riot Human worlds and even nations on worlds go to war on eachother in the imperium almost all the time. the Imperium won't really care as long as the Imperial tith keeps moving. the Hive cities might just think their under control of a new groups since who took over are other humans I mean litterally these are humans. I mean I'm not sure why your saying they would riot if anything their is alot of stuff with the Hive cities actually not rioting even if their enslaved by the orks or other groups. The other things is your not counting about tech advancement. as well as reverse engineering. with the speed they can travel Super Earth can move and reinforce stuff very quickly. How long would it take for Super Earth to reverse engineer lance batteries or augment their shields to handle them better. A few things though also Super Earth has tech roughly equivalent to the Tau if you think of it while the Tau does have it better the problem is that if what your saying also is accurate the biggest problem is how was the Tau able to eventually create a stalemate in space combat. Also if the Tau or even the Orcs can hit Imperium ships as well as destroy them so can Super Earth you can't simply assume that they can't hit them due to void shields. The Orcs use projectile weapons that can eventually go though and bring down void shields. and the Tau weapons do as well. So why can't super earth's I dough Super Earth's tech is less that what the orks have. Also every space deployment and troop deployment I've looked over in the lore has mostly numbered in the tens of thousands sometimes hundreds of thousands or millions. But even now having a million soldiers isn't that big a deal those numbers are pretty common. Ship wise I've never seen the numbers in a deployment go above the tens of thousands range maybe hundred thousand. Also considering how the space drive super earth has if they probably have weaponized versions of that drive for combat purposes think of a projectile that can span the distance of the galaxy in seconds moving right at your ship. could void shields actually be able to tank a hit moving that fast or would it cause the shields to collapse . And even if they don't lore did say it can destroy a small moon so while small it has a lot of firepower so it would be able to do some damage to imperial ships even if it might not have the staying power but it can likely give some of their ship a good mauling in a one to one attack but were more likely going to see multiple super destroyers engaging single imperial ships. Next the imperial response is usually based on a measured response compare how much tith the planet gives and compare it to how fast the planet fell if it's still fighting against the invaders they might not consider it important since the PDF are handling it. if it fell pretty quickly they would take it more seriously. But the response would be base on how much tith and how fast worlds are falling to them. this is due to the Imperium is surrounded by enemies everywhere and in every sector and subsector the fleet is always deployed so you might have one to three ships around to cover several systems in most normal cases while any large concentrations are likely currently doing things like already engaged in one war and planning to move to the next war after that or to resupply. and with the imperium actually occupied with the current chaos invasion and such the Guilaman might take a realize view on the take over as at least that's on sector he can worry about later since it's occupied by another human faction he might mistake it for a inner imperium war between two worlds. I just see multiple possibility and things that could happen which doesn't really guarantee that the Imperium can respond that smoothly with that much force as well as being that easy to handle the forces of Super earth. I mean it's also possible that they might not get any space marines due to their are only 1000 astraties per chapter and they can't go to every world every time. They have to prioritize. So it's possible that the Space marines might not even show up. Also you do realize that Their are many many insadents where PDF forces with less tech lesser tanks and equipment than a Lasgun and flack armor have humbled the Imperial guards most elite forces before. Like the Death Korpse of Krieg and such have supered defeat at the hands of PDF forces and their less equipped than actually they can't even compair to a single helldiver in equipment.
@@nosense8744 OH their was also another thing to with all the chaos going on you can have several hives actually either abandoned by the imperium or not noticed with all the stuff going on so their is a good chance some hives might fall under super Earth's sway simply due to the fact that Super Earth has a Fleet and forces that can help Hive worlds properly defend themselves. Or even resupply hive worlds if their not getting any imperium food shipments any more thus making them fulyl dependant on Super Earth. the fact that theImperium made all their worlds to not be self sufficient as much as they could is a large weakness Super Earth would likely exploit before they fully relaize their situation.
You made a mistake with the Hell Divers not being elite. The avg life span of "2 minutes" in military terms means what is guaranteed survival after firefight start. After that the military does not guarantee survival after that, (an avg). For example a US vietname soldier life expectancy is like 20 seconds for a gunner. So on and so forth. It's measured in seconds. So the fact that a Helldiver is 2 minutes, that's insanely good for what is effectively a bro juiced rifle man with strategems. Also consider that they have been soldiers since age like 7, since super earth have child soilders. You have to be 18 to be allowed to be a Helldiver though.
oh also their is one other thing to think on Space Marines are not good with attrition due to it takes about I think it was either decades or a hundred yearof training to train an astraties and every chapter is only 1000 space marines. THeir is insadents in the books and lore where some Chapter masters pulled back their forces due to they were having to many casualites. Their was one chapter master launched an attack on a shipyard only to call a retreat when to his surrpise in a few hours his forces had around 15 losses and they were haiving a kill ratio of 200 to 1. That means 200 enemis to one space marine and he calleda full retreat. This was due to if they had tried to destroy all the ship yards as he planned he wouldhave had to sacrifice his enetire chapter with those losses. So if the space marines get enough of a casualty ratio they would hesitate to launch attacks if the Helldivers can have a kill ratio of 200 helldivers to one space marine and those that is a ratio I can picture the helldivers getting on simply by virture of share firepower they can unleash on them be it stratagems to some very heavy lethal weapons shooting or to launching nukes on the Space Marines to a rediculous degree. This would make the Helldivers actually a force the SPace marines would be hesitent to fight them.
Those quick missions are perfect hit and runs. The quick space travel, decent naval firepower, and advancing tech would let a small democratic nation shift its force to critical fight after critical fight. I'd love a follow up video breaking down the small arms and support weapons abilities to deal harm to warhammer factions. As in, in a scenario that a veteran helldiver had a space marine dead to rights with a railgun could he land a fatal hit?
Potentially. A solid argument can be made that Imperial Guard issue Bolt weapons are basically what the Dominator gyrojet rife are. That gives us a decent idea of baseline firepower for small arms.
You know what would be a really interesting thing it would be how a Hive would be impacted under the control of the Federation? Living their would likely change drastically as the Buro of Expansion would probably have been received more funding and form what some info goes they train every colonist in guerilla tactics as well as equip them. So they can defend themselves until help arrives. Only recently the Buro of expansion had received budget cuts but picture how different the Imperium would be if every citizen was taught how to fight a guerilla war against the enemies of the Imperium. another is that for a Corpratocrasy to thrive it needs a flow of cash people need to be buying goods and such and people need reason and ability to buy them. Would be quite the surprise when every worker in the Hive starts to receive salaries for their work and then means to spend them. As well as giving them means of improving their own individual lives with their own hard would. That would be the first time in the hive they have had that ability in memory maybe. This might be rather a shock for the people in the hive but quite effective in turning the Citizens in the hives to the cause of Super Earth as they can see themselves not simply working to improve the Federation but to improve their own lives and their families. Especially when food situations start improving as the Federation will start to try to terraforming the lands around the hives to actually start likely farming projects to get these worlds more self sufficient again. Although with the intent travel time their FTL does it would probably make food deliveries to the Hive worlds under the Federation's control much easier than the Imperium has so food riots would likely happen much less. It would be pretty interestying to see just how the affect the Federation and their Democratic ideals would have on a hive and how much it would change them simply with the tactic of improving their own quality of life with their own hands to make them work harder. Not sure about how it will affect the Under hive though but but with quality of life generally improving maybe even extending everyone willing to work it would be a tempting offer.
I think is that super earth would suffer a lot at first but would eventually learn from the “resources” left on battlefields be it corpses, pieces of technology or even “extracted”knowledge.
If Super Earth could bring the population, I think you describe it well. But with helldivers taking place in 2184, we can assume Super Earth and colonies only has a population of a dozen to a couple of dozen billion. That's a drop in the bucket. As such, I think Super Earth, no matter how well they individually could do, would just be overwhelmed by the nearest 40k faction.
I say that if super earth ever we’re just to randomly appear, no other faction would be aware of its presence at the time, so if super plays it safe and just keep to themselves, they would last for a bit longer than they are intended, but if let’s say the imperium of man ever discovered them, they would see super earth as possible allies, and both factions have something that they desperately need. The imperium would want their space travel, and in exchange super earth would be protected by the imperium. But if another faction such as the bugs or the heretics discovered them, the tyranids would rip would do what the tyranids always do, they would rip super earth down and inevitably drive them to extinction, the heretics on the other hand would probably not shoot on site but if threatened by super earth, they would just wipe them out so yea IMO super earths only chance to survive is to make peace with the imperium.
Oh you really think Super Earth would ally with the Imperium or even keep it quiet? No, the Imperium once it notices they aren't using the warp and the astronomicon will go on a crusade agaisnt SE just to erase them from existance, and the SE high command ego is to big that they will declare war of the first non human faction they see.
To be fair every one of those soldiers who lives about two minutes has their ownership of the super destroyer change between each held diver at death so not entirely accurate, but still pretty powerful
POORLY TRAINED? How can anyone look at a guy in fully enclosed armor carrying a pistol, small arm and a *crew-served* weapon and have the ability to use this *crew served* weapon solo and with great effect on the move? SE's approved games are military games. They are hyper militarized. We see in the real world Russia and Korea do things like train children how to disassemble and reassemble a weapon. It would be weird if SE would be less militarized than that. They also get a gun and are expected to be proficient with it when they reach 18 years old. Effectively SE citizens would be closer to basic training recruits than civilians, and then they go through the SE basic training *which takes more than a few weeks*. During a war all new training is shortened, it was like 3 weeks of basic for American soldiers near the end of WWII. So trying to say the in-game basic training is somehow applicable for all SEAF personnel is false. Helldivers are also recruited from the SEAF. So a minimum of experience is expected. You also mentioned the ministry of humanity and genetic purity. Those C-O1 forms aren't just to control the population, they are a eugenics program that has lasted generations by HD2. This is why Helldivers can perform what are superhuman feats like the aforementioned carrying of a full battle gear plus crew served weapon. Or their ability to get harmed and still keep going. Like breaking an arm and still being able to fire guns with some accuracy (not much, but some). Add to that the fact that drugs and stimulants is a common and easily accessible tool for SE, even loading crew can be doped up, and the Helldivers are top of the line. They are closer to superhumans than poorly trained soldiers. Seriously I had high hopes when the advantage of FTL and logistics were mentioned. A life expectancy of 2 minutes is also extremely long. Because for example in Vietnam the expectancy was in the seconds. SE would stomp the 40K world with ease. First off: numbers. The Helldivers are purely fighting in the rear of the enemy, sabotaging production, supply, command and control etc. They rarely can win by just killing enemies. The SEAF is the group that actually wins the planet after the Helldivers cripple the enemy. This means that the SEAF kills more than the Helldivers to achieve their goals, and the Helldivers can kill more bots in a day than many 40K fights bring in total. This means the scale of warfare on a planet of SE is much bigger. And the speed is even more frightening. By the time a fleet is assembled and send to take back a planet, SE has already taken several more planets. Any planet too tough to take directly (say a Forge World) will be taken on by capturing the planets that supply it (which is the basic way they use Helldivers already). On top of that the Ministry of Science managed to figure out *extradimensional tech* from the Illuminate within a century. In fact when the Illuminate offered a cure for cancer SE managed to weaponize it early in the war. SE also saw the dangerous bile of the bugs and not only weaponized that as well but also made it more lethal. So they should have little problems reverse engineering Imperial tech first, and then going on to reverse engineer the tech of other factions. And we haven't even discussed the option of diplomacy. Yes SE does diplomacy mostly by wielding the biggest stick, but that is 100% what the Imperium of Man functions on too! And SE can punish you within minutes of learning you did something against them, while the Imperium can at best respond in weeks to months if they know right away and it can take years or centuries in many cases. And SE then offers far superior living conditions than 40K does as well as a semblance of freedom. They give the masses something to work for. They might effectively trade one tyrant for another, but this new tyrant actually does care for them more than the previous one. Even if SE meets something dangerous like Necrons, 4 Hive fleets at once or 50 WAAAAGHS and 100 craft worlds that decide they are done with them, SE's expansion is just too darn fast compared to the relatively slow 40K ships and the scale of warfare too big. The bots and bugs use *billions* of units to take a planet. And yet it can take days and hundreds of millions of casualties, and those are just the casualties the Helldivers make not the civilians and SEAF. 40K's numbers just pale in comparison even if you take the "a million have died, send in the next wave" at face value. And once SE starts hybridizing 40K tech with their own, they will steamroll everything. And we haven't even discussed suckerpunching. SE has plenty of nukes, they'll happily use it on relatively small objectives. We now even see SE cities where SEAF artillery has nuclear shells ready. So taking the SEAF Liberty class ship, which does the space combat since Super Destroyers sure as hell haven't been used for that, this ship can warp in extremely close to the target and launch a dozen nukes of various sizes in quick succession and warp out. And if Super Destroyers are any indication, it would not be uncommon for 30.000+ of these ships to be present at a single battle. 30.000+ ships with the ability to nuclear suckerpunch can demolish any 40K army with ease. No one seems to realize how ridiculously dangerous the Helldivers universe is. The scale and tech available is just so ludicrous.
@@popcornog5059they are their entire society is built to be immediately military trained since childhood fucking children past time is shooting high calibre guns, their school curriculum has military lessons and when they turn 16 they are given the liberator and Helldivers are actually have to go through SEAF training before being a Helldiver
Helldivers actually train from 7 as they must be seaf officers to even become Helldivers. Although age admission to be helldivers is said to be bout 18.7, it is only admission. Training is actually 9 months. Heck, less than in 1 in 4 people who are admitted survive the training. They may have less experience to space marines but they are not badly trained. Its just that space Marines lived much longer. As for life expectancy, in the war against vietnam, America gave a life expectancy of less than 10 sec for each soldier. However, 9 of 10 soldiers survive. Life expectancy is not about how long they live but how much time they are guaranteed to live for. So for 2 minutes of life exceptancy is actually a heck lot more time. This furthers that Helldivers are more elite.
super earth would easily survive in 40k due to typically overlooked factors, everyone looks at hard factors such as weapons and gigatons of firepower and number of ships but ignore the critical soft factors that win wars more than most. super earth is simply capable of reacting way quicker than the imperium, move way quicker than the emporium and adapt way quicker than the imperium while also having manufacturing systems most likely better than the imperium. while the imperium is getting its head out of its ass and is sending its fleet to deal with this new threat, super earth would of already recognized the imperium, probably mined all possible data from the worlds that either defected or surrendered. and actively adapting new manufacturing facilities that will easily match and probably outpace the imperium of man. this is a society that won a galactic war on 3 fronts, reversed engineered significantly advanced alien tech extremely quickly, and keeps progressing further and further down further advanced techs to a point where they can press a free win button with the black fluid tech and casually use plasma weapons that blow up in your face. AT THE CORE OF THE ISSUE- super earth is a technologically advanced, hyper xenophobic, fanatic, and militaristic. which by itself fits in 40k but has a natural advantage of not being grim. which gives them an innate ability to actively improve and desire further improvement especially over an adversary such as the imperium. note: this is a comment of whether super earth can SURVIVE in 40k im not indicating whether they will WIN against anyone. rather super earth has every ability to make a name for themselves on a galactic scale and tip the scales in a different direction
Maybe I am late after 4 months, but iI gonna leave my own (un)qualified thought on this. People may correct me cause I don´t know to much about 40k, but a thing or two about Helldivers. And I had a smiliar talk with friends once, who are into HD and 40K. First of all. I don´t think that Helldivers are really poorly trained. Every Helldiver was a SEAF member before and as far as I know, only the best ones get to the Helldiver training. Now this may be just speculation, but I also don´t think that the training in HD2 is the only training a Helldiver gets, as it serves the purpose to introduce the game mechanics to the player. Most things we learn there, should be things every normal SEAF soldier already knows. But yeah, they are still meant to be expendable, but if they are really so poorly trained, Super Earth could just send normal soldiers with a smiliar low amount of training. And why freeze your elite soldiers for later use, if they are so cheap and poor trained? Even with the low life expectancy of a Helldiver, we shouldn´t forget that a average Helldiver is capaple to deal with dozens to hundrets of enemys much bigger and stronger than him, because even arsenal without orbital or Eagle fire is quite strong and impressive. And we once pointed out, in an argument Helldivers vs Space Marines, you´d see some red beacons followed by orbital lasers and railcannon strikes. How would a SM defend if the railcannon is locked on his head? 4 eagles flying around dropping 500kg and clusters while 380mm shells and orbital napalm rains down. (best loadout in the game btw. take 380, linear barrage, orbital napalm and 120, throw it all into one place and grab some popcorn. for maximum democracy, all 4 Divers should do this) But I have to disagree to the argument every single Helldiver gets his own destroyer. That´s not the case. During a mission, when a diver dies, they out another one out of the cryo sleep and send him to dive. There are probably more on each destroyer. Lore wise I would say maybe even up to a hundret, given to that we can see many cryo pods on the destroyer. Gameplay wise I´d say at least 5 per destroyer, as we have 20 reinforcements, 5 with each player joining a match. But still I agree that the Super Destroyer is the best weapon Super Earth has. FTL jumps are absolutely OP as stated in the video. From nearly every threat, if to overhwhelming, they can just retreat in the blink of an eye. And we saw that, when Meridia got soaked into the black hole. That we created. Another reason for Super Earth. What stops them from doing the same again against a enemy in the 40K universe? Now, with the acutual major order about the construction of the Democratic Space Station there might come another powerful weapon to the hands of Super Earth. But the entire weaponry of a Super Destroyer is might the wants to be reckoned. Even though the destroyes itselfes are not that big. The orbital barrages, laser and railcannon can shred about everything, now imagine not only 4, but thousands of them at the same mission, which would be needed if fighting against the Imperium for example. Super Earth probably wouldn´t keep sending 4 man squads as in the current galactic war. And I bet every Space Marine (take the actual SM2 game) would be happy to have close fire support like Eagle. And we should not forget Pelicans cannon either. That thing can fuck up even Bile Titans. All in all, I think I agree with the video, Super Earth would be able to hold itself in 40K. They have some surprises in their pockets. But I also might be wrong with what I said, so maybe someone can correct it.
The point about every helldiver getting a super destroyer is both wrong and right, depending on how you interpret the statement. It's wrong to say that a single helldiver gets a super destroyer for himself, but it is correct to say that every helldiver has a super destroyer. There's a difference in those 2 things. You never have a super destroyer with only 1 helldiver on board, but not a single helldiver that gets deployed lacks super destroyer support, so in a sense, yes, all helldivers have a super destroyer.
I disagree with how Chaos would be able to be resisted with managed democracy, while it does make sense the issue is Super Earth citizens aren’t lobotomized drones who think only of managed democracy, they still have wants and aspirations, and being human those wants would be projected into the warp and attract Chaos’s attention, Super Earth’s violent and war like nature would attract Khorne, and the scheming higher ups managing the propaganda would gain Tzeentch or possible Slaannesh attention, their wargear is diverse but has 2 major issues, 1.Being very comparable to real life gear, while that works for Kreig that’s more because of how many bodies they can throw at their problems, 2. They get all their wargear from fleets, if any faction boards their allies ship they loose out on most of their wargear and artillery. They also have nothing to combat psykers, or dent stronger faction units outside of heavy artillery, I would love to see how a titan would handle certain stratagem fire though
I like you points and I feel like they bring up great topics! For your first point I don't feel like their armor is comparable to real life. In heavy armor you can tank multiple missiles, a cannon or tank round and get back up lol. Plus their stealth armor is extremely handy and pings enemies on the map farther than the other armors. For the second point the Imperium is going to have to fight thru Super Earth's Navy combat ships the Liberty Class Cruisers just to the Super Destroyers. Even then let's see if you try to board a Super Destroyer it wouldn't be possible imo, the SD can orbit a planet in about a second, FTL is crazy, they also have eagles and even if they managed to board it the SD got ordinance laying right out in the open! You think that the crew on board isn't willing to blow themselves up to take out the boarding crew? Thats if they could kill the entire 40+ crew and Helldivers that are armed to the teeth. You could send Astartes to board but the ship is so small it would be hard for them to maneuver so a group of regular humans would be better but eventhen it would be a waste of resources then just shooting the Destroyer out the sky. They have plenty of things to combat psykers unless they can stop orbital bombardments from falling on their heads lol. You might have to list a psykers abilities out for me as I do not fully know. I heard that Astartes try to fight them in a melee as ballistics don't really work and the Helldivers do have Melee weapons now plus the shields to close the gap. Helldivers come with heavy artillery so that's a mute point as they always have it at hand. I doubt most Titans could have multiple 380s falling right on top of its head but would definitely be cool to know the exact amount of punishment a Titan can take
Really cool video! I learned a lot about Helldivers' universe here than anywhere else. And funny to see that, in general, Super Earth would not be an "easy prey" in general. But, just so you know, WH40K was the cruelest setting I've ever seen - until it came to my little knowledge the Xeelee's series. Let's just say, to not take so long as I usually do in your videos, that not even the unified Necron's dinasties would have a chance there as far as I know...
red hierophant you got something wrong about the hell divers, they are highly trained and you're comparing them to real earth, NO the truth is that you can join the super earth military at like 9 years old, so they will have all that training and experience to become a helldiver the most elite of their planet , also the life expectancy is 2 minutes? its actually they will live at least 2 minutes on the battlefield, everything else i think its right.
The imperium would not likely be to friendly depending on the chapter they would ask join the emperor or die btw the imperium has 15 Quadrillion humans in Warhammer with titans dreadnoughts thousands of chapters and an uncountable amount of cannonfauter or imperial gaurds
Super earth would lose what makes it super earth if it gets integrated into the imperium. Its culture, it's Tactics, the Zealotry helldivers have to democracy isn't just transferable currently to the imperial cult. It'd all have to be ground up from the foundations.
@@GreaterGrievobeast55 What? Not seeing it. I could see some issues with the Imperial Navy arising but not fully insurmountable ones. Plus, how hard is it for Super Earth's propaganda machine to just say "The God Emperor is the Living Embodiment of Liberty and Front of Freedom!" to nothing but cheers? Sure, the Imperium might blow them apart instead, but that's always a possibility with the Imperium and any independent human civilization.
I genuinely think a Helldiver could solo a Space Marine easily. Any anti-tank support weapon would be an easy win, the orbital railcannon strike would be an instant gg, a hellpod from a friendly reinforcement would not end well for a marine, and an autocannon sentry would probably also make quick work of one. And that's not even considering the MOST deadly weapon in a Helldiver's arsenal. The 380 mm barrage seems to consciously target and eliminate any human life within its radius, with no chance to escape. Edit: Fantastic video btw, loved the breakdown of each faction's threat against Super Earth
Theyd most likely have TT stats of: M: 6, T 3, Sv: 4+, W: 1, Ld: 6, OC: 2 Majority of their weapons would be WS/BS 3+, and they would probably have a FNP 6+ and a chance to heal a lost wound on a 5+ For a base, Id give the basic assualt rifle: range 24", A: 2, S: 3, ap: -, D: 1 keywords: Assault, rapid fire 1. Then scale everything up or down from there.
Ministry of Truth here. Several studies were performed on a 40k-like scenario like this. The conclusion we found most plausible was that the unwavering Freedom and faith in Managed Democracy citizens of Super Earth have would be capable of collectively neutralizing, or even reversing, the effects of the Warp on living beings. Super Earth Psyker Squads (SEPS) would be incredibly valuable assets in the war against the Chaos Gods with their abilities to convert pure Warp energy into pure Freedom. The teams even floated the idea of creating Democratic Gods of Freedom, Democracy and Liberty as a possible measure, seeing as their functions would align with Super Earth culture and thereby nullifying any risk of corruption. Combine this with our research into 200% extinction rates against the squids, yes, it would be a cakewalk. Addendum: Some have wondered about other factions and you can be assured, Super Earth has enough ammunition for all of them three times over. Enough that it is mathematically plausible to shoot the Warp to death.
While I agree that the helldivers are a capable force, their advantages are really one of two things: numbers and super destroyers, but from what I’ve seen of the super destroyers their weapon batteries are positioned for air to ground support. I feel the ship to ship combat was a neglected topic. Are there any examples of super destroyers engaging in ship to ship combat? I’d have to assume not since they have two major weak points, the rear and the top of the ship where there are no weapons. And even if they were engage face to face, the weapons that can aim to the sides and front are limited. You can’t consider ground forces if the space forces can’t get close enough to deploy them. (Also I’m pretty confident that a single space marine boarding a super destroyer is enough to cripple it entirely) Also, as we’ve seen in HD2, there are a TON of weather conditions that affect stratagem deployment and tech (as shown by the robots I forgot the name of) that can prevent their use period. So great, you have a ship with massive firepower in atmosphere (that can only be there for so long, I’ll circle back) but you can’t communicate with it until you figure out what’s stopping comms. Back to the lower orbit thing, the super destroyers can only provide support in atmosphere but can only be there for so long (where the 40 minute mission timer comes from) so the SD is only an advantage for 12 to 40 minutes at a time.
The Class 6 Series Crewed Interplanetary Combat Vessel, better known as the Super Destroyer, is a faster-than-light capable warship mass produced for use by the Helldivers of the Super Earth Armed Forces (SEAF). Upon reading the Contract of Employment and completing Helldiver training, each Helldiver is assigned command of a Super Destroyer to carry out their missions. the super destroyer is only made for Helldivers which is part of the SEAF Each active Helldiver has command of one The only other known ship currently is the Liberty Class Cruiser The Liberty-Class Cruiser is a faster-than-light capable warship mass produced for the Super Earth Armed Forces (SEAF). Purportedly, the expenditure of a single Helldiver operation rivals that of the cost to manufacture a Cruiser. The Liberty-Class Cruiser presumably surpasses the Super Destroyer in both size and armament, boasting a more imposing presence and firepower. and i quote "The average Helldiver operation costs as much as a Liberty-Class Cruiser." - Ship Master The liberty class even if we havent seen it, Is part of the SEAF Navy meaning theres other ships in canon, probably ones specifically made for Ship to ship battle, its been proven already that the Automatons have their own navy, its the SEAF Navy that are pushing the Automaton navy out the helldivers are the troops made to breach a planet or weaken it enough for normal SEAF units to push in and finish the job. the only other thing i can really mention that might be considered as ship aswell is the DSS (Democracy Space Station) Once complete, the DSS will be a new strategic-level weapon. It will wield powerful, Helldiver-directed weaponry to aid in the liberation of its orbited planet. Through a cutting-edge voting system, the Helldivers will determine where to deploy the DSS, and when to use its capabilities. btw which is within 2 months of research they are able to start making the DSS super earth doesnt have a problem reverse engineering tech, They will do it and can mass produce it to any Unit/Helldiver within Hours or days, Its canon that the Indestructible energy shield bug was actually from General brasch's stash and the fact that every helldiver had it at some point in time means that they have the industry capable of providing each hell diver one. btw the DSS seem to be FTL Travel capable aswell other than that the helldivers we play as are just the ground troops specifically for Covert ops/ Special operations Theres still the SEAF Navy/Army and such theres even another special operations unit within SEAF called Viper Commandos Super Earth Navy Super Earth's Aerospace service branch, responsible for maintaining and crewing its space borne warships like the Super Destroyer and Liberty-Class Cruiser as well as aircraft such as the Pelican and Eagle as well as a fleet of bombers. The Navy's primary mission is to defend and spread freedom as well as economic prosperity by providing orbital support to SEAF forces planet side. They also maintain orbital dominance and keeping the Faster than Light Lanes open as well as transport military personnel and equipment. Unsurprisingly the Super Earth navy is the current dominant space borne navy in the Galaxy, with the only other fleet that comes anywhere close being the Automaton fleet, with it's tens of thousands of Automaton Fleet Destroyers. Whilst primary warship of the Super Earth Navy is the Super Destroyer, they also possesses heavier warships in the form of the Liberty-Class Cruiser, which presumably surpasses the Destroyer in both size and armament. Sources helldivers.fandom.com/wiki/Super_Earth_Armed_Forces helldivers.fandom.com/wiki/Category:Spaceships helldivers.wiki.gg/wiki/Democracy_Space_Station
There is only ONE weather effect that blacks communication with the SD and thats the ION storm but other than that the SD has no problems. Missions are 40 mintues at most because of budget reasons not because they cant but thats what theyve considered to be the most efficient time it should take to finish a mission while not blowimg their budget
I can tell this person is a 40K fan first and foremost. First off Helldivers are extremely well trained. People enlist in the military at 7 and then can sign up for the Helldivers program at 18. This is more combat experience than a modern solder in real life. Secondly they would not alley with a single faction in 40K. They just simply would have no way to modify there current propaganda to allow a faction with a different belief system to live.
Ill drop this here, just like the Tau made the greater good a warp entity. The combined mindset of super earth beleiving in Liberty could create a warp entity as well
It actually just the guevesa and other psychic races in the Tau empire. The amount of devotion and emotion SE has to managed democracy will make the being a full blown god
How about this then, Super earth collabs with the Imperium. With the techs of the Super Earth and the implants of the Imperium. I think it'll gonna be epic.
For those learning managed democracy, it doesn't have to be the way Super Earth does it. A real world example of managed democracy is the USA, it's education system, and it's media that speaks for and support the US government's objectives, it manufactures consent from the people.
9:30 as far as I know that's not entirely correct. Imperial soldiers are trained moderately well by default unless they are unlucky enough to be thrown into a battle as newbies. Which is also logical, I mean what else do they do all day on ships or in military camps. train. The problem they have is that they usually fight against creatures that are superhuman, have better technology, are more in number or have special powers. and that makes them worse off than they actually are. But they're not cannon fodder like, what do I know, hormagaunts. Their training can easily be compared with the standard training of our soldiers on Earth, and even better depending on the regiment. And their weapon technology isn't bad either, it just depends on what the soldier was trained for and what he's given, although even the classic laser rifle isn't as bad a weapon as people like to talk about (flashlight in some old codex), only in that In Warhammer World there are many weapons that are superior to the laser rifle in terms of penetration. The armor is ok, it usually only protects parts of the body and is not intended to permanently ward off direct fire like servo armor. it's actually not that good compared to the armament. I think they are described worse here than they are standard in the lore. It depends a lot on which regiment it is, but the average person should be a good soldier who has to work in a universe where there are too many creatures that are superior to humans.
I think it REALLY depends on the regiment, more than anything. For example, the Cadian Regiment are absolute monsters compared to the "average" guardsman. That's kinda my point, there are a lot of regiments that are exceptional, but as a baseline, guardsman get "stronger" by experience, not because they are particularly well-trained. Hell, most of the regiments don't have the TIME to be well-trained, they are drafted as soon as they can handle their lasgun. And about their equipment: It really is that bad when you compare to what Helldivers have access to.
@@RedHierophant23 to be faire helldiver armor can protect helldiver against shot from automatons and they are similar too laser rifle and we can't forget about a stims and how powerfull they are
In terms of training Imperial Guards vary depending on where they came from, Cadians, Vostroyans, Krieg, Tallarns, Moridians and other guard units are very well trained. Unless the person is an Imperial Conscript id say Imperial Guard units are very well trained but receive heavy losses often due to the ridiculousness of the foes they are facing
@@mateusznowak5805 Oh no, Automaton aren't similar to the Flashlight the Imperium has, just to be clear, the flashlight is literally a weapon that fires well light, so every bullet will be the same as the time it takes for a flashlight to make light once it's on, that thing can tore Orks apart, just to be clear, ork skin is pretty much rough like the plate of armour the guardsmen have, even the tau that have fullbody armour die once a Lasgun projectile hits them, dont understimate the Lasgun just because it cant kill a chaos space marine, those guys are buffed by chaos and still get scared once they see a batallion of guardsmen.
To be honest, I tried to give the benefit of the doubt to Super Earth a couple of times, because they have the capability to "adapt" pretty well. But it can really go either way.
I will say this would be an interesting story type to look into though. And yes I would say their is a good chance Super Earth would survive would be interesting to see a desperate imperium actually getting help from them or even the Helldivers liberating isolated imperium worlds and pulling those world into Super Earth's sphere of incluence. Or with the Tau. With their mindset being occupied by Super Earth would be much preferable to the Imerpium they might be relieved to see that their colonies being occupied and their citizens being integrated into the population of super Earth and taught the way of Super Earth's culture due instead of killing the populations. If anything that's what they thought would happen when the Imperiums crusade happened with them only to find out the IMperium doesn't do that to aliens they wipe out entire planets or even flood them. if the tau are integrated into super Earth that would prove to be an interesting mix up with the Helldivers and the Tau. Just picture a Tau Helldiver who was part of the Fire warrior cast.
Yeah not gonna lie, if super earth gets to do the thing they did with the illumini with the tau, we could be seeing a new super power in the galaxy, super earth citezen would be almost immune to chaos, and realistically with the ftl tech they got, and whith a crisis Battle suit democratcly altered, the xenos are fucked
The thing is, they would not be able to do what they did with the Illuminates agaisnt the Tau, first, the Illuminates had meele weaponry as their basic weapons, the Tau? Everything is range, they have exosqueletal armor for every soldiers and then a much more bigger version that can fly and fire a laser machine gun, and SE would not be inmune to chaos because they are humans, and humans are like the favorite food of the Chaos Gods and maybe they will be able to respond rapidly thanks to their FTL, but the Tyranids also have one, and talking about the Tyranids, one lesser hive fleet and they are fucked.
@@nosense8744 the thing that iam talking about is: start a friendly relationship with them, and then betray, Tyranids ftl is not good, they can travel self and considerably fast for a good part of the trip, but after that it's actually slower then the horizon drove of the tau (I think is stated some were that 90% of a trip is in their super ftl travel and the rest is traveled sublight), anda about chaos, super citizens are really indoctrinated, not just that, they have entire ministries focused on controlling what the masses believe and stoping "antidemocratic" ideas is a case of adaptability non the less they are all atheist except for the abstract concept of freedom thy believe in, there's no room for any kind of god even be considered, there's also the fact that they practice eugenics and generically alternate all the citezens upon birth,the eugenics program could probably detect something like a gene stealer cult. My point is, if they some how manage to fuck with the tau and reverse engineer half of their tech, they are all set
@@nosense8744the illuminates are eldar/Tau tho the most annoying thing in the 1st game is their teleporting snipers that 1 shots you even with shields and they are more advanced than the tau
@@nosense8744 iam not talking about immunity, but there believes system and organizations to maintain them are better them the imperium's equivalent, the ministry of truth cold deal with Chao's much better than the inquisition, because super earth believes are in a system not god's or anythinng close to that, making a lot harder for chaos cults to rise, the tau and illuminate situation is to simular to just go "better weapons = win" they would steal the technology to even the playing field.
Super Earth has one of three outcomes... one they get wiped out by some xenos most likely Orks, Nids or Tau depending on where in the galaxy they get plopped down. Two they get consumed by chaos or a CSM warband and no one even knows they were there to start with. Three they either get taken over by the Imperium or wiped out by the Imperium for refusing to comply with the Emperor's rule. Either way they do not have the numbers, weapons or ships to be a faction or group that survives on their own for long and given how they are also xeno hating they chances of them siding with the Tau are very low and the Tau are just as join or die as the Imperium only they start selectively breeding their people for jobs like they did their own castes then kill any who do not fit a role. Yes they do this and the Aetheral cast uses some sort of mind control on the blue fish commies so they go along with it and why they have to pull the greater good lie for not blue fish people then kill any who don't go along with the eugenics program. All in all Super Earth wouldn't even make it to be a foot note in any Imperial or xenos records... Which is sad but because they are a fun lot.
Technology wise I feel like super earth would lose most fights the only way for them to actually survive is if they win a battle and most factions are used to a numbers game
Wow... the possibility of chaos god of liberty and freedom beeing born broke me to the point i spit my food... the guy would be jonh hell diver and his super destroyer would be an entire planet... any thing that can kill a helldiver can kill him but the guy just drops down again ready to roll besides he is jonh bell diver unkillable and waay too good at his craft...
Helldiver Destroyers would not even make it to low orbit before being shot to pieces in space. They're armed exclusively for fire-support and not ship-to-ship combat. Theyre glorified taxis for jumping out of. If you could torpedo yourself from ship-to-ship by angling a destroyer bottom towards enemy, I guess you could effectively then also use the fire-support weapons to pepper an enemy ship in a pinch.
Thats cope bro and not even how the Helldivers operate. If fhe airspace wasnt clear they wouldnt be there and they have ships that clear that airspace for them to work which are their Navy ships. Even if they have trouble clearing the airspace the SEAF have the Democracy Space Station which has FTL capabilities can bombard a whole planet and carry a fleet of Eagles. The SDs have A LOT of protection so they can conduct their operations. But strageically if a ship gets thru the SEAF Navy's line would the first objecitve be to hunt down all these FTL jumping SDs or to get a foot hold back on the planet. Also gotta consider that SDs can orbit a planet in a second so catching them is gonna be a hugh waste of time. Im sure a SD wouldnt mind abandoning a team of Helldivers mid mission and just sending a Pelican to pick them up
I mean everything happening IN-GAME in HD2 is considered canon, so a single HELLDIVER can act as a one man army DEPENDING on the helldiver. Or be a complete idiot.
Yeah, if the foe allow his space ship to stay in low altitude and offer him ammo supply, bombardments and weaponry. If not, it's just one human with a gun and 5 mag...
A helldiver would see a single Lasgun and immediately soil his pants. Considering what a lasgun can do (has a pretty large "mag" size, is lightweight, can blow chunks of concrete off cover and has a rediculious range) it be the most OP shit they'd seen. Super earth would then try to nerf it
"Wait, so it hits like an AMR per round, has no projectile drop, minimal recoil, has 120 rounds per magazine, the magazine cap is 12 and it pens Medium armor? I found the new meta!"
honestly, I feel like both the Helldivers, and the space marines wouldn't fight each other because, both sides are really big on democracy. Especially Guilliman. (no way Super Earth is only under control of 282 planets the imperium controls over a million worlds )
If what yall saying bout the helldivers is true, then with a lil bit prep and extra (certified real life special forces level) training and extra armour and firearms upgrade with a little more of armoury, isnt it safe to assume theyll make it out alive🧐🧐🧐
They are not cannon fodder. The imperium soldiers are much better trained than you think. Most of them will never see a space marine, as most of them get the job done. The imperium would fall apart if their typical human soldiers were nothing but cannon fodder.
Life Expectancy and Life span are two different things. 2 Minute wartime Life Expectancy is better than anything we have in modern times. If I'm not mistaken during the Vietnam war, there was something like a 2 second life expectancy but obviously something like 80% of all war fighters lived. To draw this comparison to have a 2 minute life expectancy in war, means that the Hell Divers are at an insane level of elite that is unheard of in modern times. They're very well trained and equipped
I'm honestly wondering how the people of Super Earth would affect the Warp. These guys are fanatical beyond any reasonable doubt, screaming (potentially their last words) "OH SWEET LIBERTY!" when injured. These guys are pretty much told up front by their democracy officers that their life expectancies could be as short as thirty seconds, and they line up in the billions to join. We could reach, like, ork or eldar levels of warp shenanigans with this. Not to mention the countless ministries that have the sole goal of keeping the population of Super Earth worlds, even in the far reaches of their territory, as patriotic as humanly possible. These guys would not just survive in WH40k, they will thrive in it.
If you think of things and the warhammer verse how dangerous that is it's not as bad as what's in warframe. Considering you have all the chaos gods, fleets and armies of billions and fleet and army losses that number in the billions only to not even slow down the different factions. and the only difference is that it's all in one system. And if you think of it The Helldivers would actually fit well in the Warhammer verse if anything they could be a very powerful force to use for the IMperial guard that's combat abilities could rival the Solar Auxilia. Only instead of guarding the center of the imperium it would be launching it's own crusades against enemies of the IMperium. And with the IMperium they don't care if you go to war with other worlds as long as the tith is payed they will let you do what ever you do.
And one problem with the Helldivers are poorly trained. considering the every hell diver can shoot accurately any weapon that has ever been made by Super Earth they must have had extensive training and training in not just using weapons but also hacking into computers. using coms equipment and several others.
You actually right about that. They are actually trained. They must be seaf officers to be Helldivers and they usually enlist at 7. That is at least maybe a 11 years of training and combat experience. And about the admission, it is true Helldivers are admitted at about 18.7, it talks nothing about the training. The training is actually 9 months long. Far far longer than a USA training at 2 months. In addition, only about 23% of them actually survive the training. So to compare to the rest of the force, they are truly elites and well trained soldiers. Life expectancy is just how long they are guaranteed to live. 2 mins is quite a lot. In Vietnam war, the life expectancy of Americans are usually less than a minute except for a few other roles. Two minutes is already a lot. Also, only 1 in 10 soldiers died in the Vietnam war, so Helldivers must be elites if they can survive longer than soldiers in Vietnam in such hellish war. Space Marines just have much more experience than Helldivers but it does not mean Helldivers are bad. It's just too bad Helldivers have to fight against space Marines that are a century older than a helldiver.
@@theunknown1666 Ya but still considering how the space marines operate and such and their reliance of their physical prowace on most things it can e detrimental a lot. the Helldivers don't have to win every engagement they have to at least be able to reliably kill one or two marines in every engagement for the losses to build up fast. Every marine lost is almost irreplaceable. And while Helldivers are elite they are expendable also. (And they must ahve alot with the losses we have in every battle i wonder what the casualty reports are for the other Super Earth forces in the galactic war.)
@@jasonsaalbach5786Short range is always super marine strong suit against Helldivers. Helldivers just have to get cover and throw strategems at the marine and hope it can hit. Maybe a wide area blast will be helpful. Or just use support weapon. Higher the penetration the better
At best a helldiver squad would be just a basic storm trooper or scion kill team. And there isn't enough of them to hold their own planets from just two factions let alone the enemies the imperium faces.
Here are some groups from other scifi settings i think could at least survive in 40k or interesting to consider Star wars The sith empire from the tor era The republic from the tor era The rakata The celestials The galactic empire The new republic The hutt empire StarCraft factions Halo factions Gundam verse
Well...yes...but actually kinda no maybe?!?...but survive is more the right term! The helldivers are just jacked up guardsmen with better mechanicus artillery!
I would put Helldivers on the same level as Tempestus Scions or Imperial stormtroopers, ya know some of the best regular human soldiers the imperium has, if you count their orbitals, then they scale higher. To be honest i think they would join the imperium...maybe fight for abit like the usual but eventually join but on their own terms, would also be cool to see another human faction besides the imperium too tho
9:32 not true most guardsmen are extremely competent the guardsmen that you're thinking of are white shields who, if they are lucky, get a week of training there on pare with helldivers including valkerys leman russes helldivers are just a imperial guard regiment
What about Helldivers vs SCP foundation at full potential next? Would the helldivers even be able to develop counter measures against the anomalies that the SCP studies? Would be fascinating to see!!! 🎉 💯
Takes more than bullets and bombs to contain the lunacy behind foundation corridors. They'd probably screw something up and ruin the planet within the month like let a cognitohazard spread or not keep up with the deers ritual
Yeah well, SCP is pretty much modern and Helldivers aren't so far from that, the fight will take time but once 500kg there and that and the Helldivers will win a hard diff fight, this if they dont release any scp in the act.
@@nosense8744 sounds like a solid point but man would also be awesome to see a crossover of SCP foundation and Helldivers trying to survive When the Day Breaks scenario together
I like the idea of Super Earth being fanatical about Democracy that it recreates the Slaanesh incident and creates a new Chaos God of Democracy, except he would be campaigning on bringing order to the Warp and any planet he deems valuable
The democracy officer on the bridge isxthexreal captain i think. Also not every diver gets theirvown ship.... they are TOLD its their ship after they are dethawed from a tube...oh the diver died dethaw the next one! SE best xhsnce for survival is joining the imperiumand just paying the imperial tiethe.. likly in the form of helldiver regiments.
Super Earth empire teleports into 40K
*5 minutes later in the Warp*
Khorn: “what do you mean you’re the new god of democracy? What the hell is a democracy?”
@@Quincy_Morris Columbus, New God of Liberty: _”It is a beautiful thing, brother Khorne, perhaps even more beautiful than the art of your bloodshed. Many souls acting as one, not for honor or for glory, but for the sake of all their fellows. Brothers, hand in hand, lending their opinions to the maelstrom, creating new and more wonderful things as new ideas come and flourish. It is a thing men call Democracy, but it is a thing I call “perfection.”_
@ bro would literally be the god of anti chaos.
it took 10 000 years for the Imperium that actually have a concrete image of the God Emperor to manifest him with godly powers, and still not on par with the big four.
The Eldar needed to murderfucked Slanesh into existence for millions of years
a numerical inferior faction chanting an obscure catchphrase would NOT manifest a new god
I find this funny and will not like because 69 is a funny number
@@TheCorrodedMan Wouldn't it be better a trinity with Super Earth, Lady Liberty, and Managed Democracy as three separated aspects of the same deity?
"poorly trained"
"Helldiver starts using whatever weapon they touch with high effectiveness under heavy fire, beats robots by wacking with his gun ripping pieces of them, maniacly happy about sacrificing himself for super earth and democracy not just out of duty and loyalty but out of joy he feels because he is being sacrificed for freedom"
it is lore accurate and canon in the helldivers universe, that the helldivers and seaf people are really poorly trained
(for example im pretty sure its confirmed the average helldiver gets 6-8 weeks of training and the normal seaf soldier gets 1-2 weeks)
@tedddropdead i dont think its true for the record but even if it was, i would still not call them "poorly trained" since i can see how proficient they are with my own eyes, so the 6-8 weeks training they get must be extremely effective, it litterally produces super soldiers capable of 1v50 supersized bugs, barely penetrable war machines and technologically advanced seafood in an unconventional environment where they engage enemy behind their lines
@@tedddropdeadit might be said they are, but since what we do in game is considered lore, the numbers say otherwise
The average helldiver doesn't survive a single mission, your guy isn't respawning, every death is a new guy. They are literally cannon fodder
@rjw4149 my god!!! its unbelivable how people love not thinking about the information they recieve. Average helldiver squad goes into mission that is against hundereds sometimes thousands of enemies and generally complete their mission killing 50 enemies on average before dying. Even if they die +20 times per mission its still impressive what they achieve. Cannon fodder means expendable and not "untrained", "incompetent". Every soldier, every citizen, every officer, everyone except for the ruling class in super earth is expendable. That doesnt mean they are untrained and incompetent. Every modern real life nation's military would wish they had as competent cannon fodders as an average helldiver
People really seem to forget super earth is not just a single planet. It’s a galaxy wide regime. Just like the imperium.
Yeah but people forget space marines are legit superhumans who are made by a legit god soo
@aidanrose1943 500kg, problem solved. It's too easy
@@aidanrose1943 space marines are pretty tough, right up until there’s a red beacon laying by their feet. I’m fairly certain they’re just as vulnerable to orbital bombardment as anybody else
@@aidanrose1943I would believe that statement more when your talking about Dreadnought's, those things can tank WAY more firepower then a Space Marine.
@@aidanrose1943A self-proclaimed God*
Space Marines are not invulnerable, their armor is tough, yes but they’re useless against anti-tank weapons. Which Helldivers have many of these weapons. A single shot from recoiless rifle will handle a space marine just fine and a squad can do absolutely nothing once they get hit by a 500kg.
where do people get this idea helldivers are poorly trained, they join the military at age 7, the helldivers training at age 18 has a 22% survival rate. The ingame tutorial is just a ceremony at the end of their training. The entire society they come from is completely based around the military and war, it's the equivalent to spartan society basically. If you don't want to believe that just watch gameplay, they can run across a map for 40 minutes straight covered in armour carrying heavy weaponry, they are completely proficient with every weapon they use, they can hack systems and operate mechanical machinery. Each helldiver is backed by a destroyer. To top it all off you can say the average lifespan is 2 minutes but being dropped into a situation where you are dropped behind enemy lines surrounded by 1000's of enemies that are much stronger than you physically and they can still with only a handful of helldivers complete all objectives kill 1000's of enemies and extract like where is this idea coming from that they're just random people off the street given some armour and a gun it's so stupid.
Also I think it's worth pointing out that as an elite force they still probably have millions of personnel, so contemplate the probable billions that are in the regular army that will be still somewhat near helldiver levels of proficiency considering the whole spartan society aspect. Take into account peak numbers for the game their helldivers ships combined as a naval force would be over 300,000 destroyers at the least. Keep in mind there is an actual navy that super earth has with actual warships bigger than destroyers probably totalling in the millions. They're borderline already living in the 40k universe with the scales we could be possibly talking about, all they're missing is the warp. The normal helldiver is practically a space marine without biological enhancements and power armour.
@@dylan-jd8br they don’t even need the warp/are better than the imperium due to that fact and their Alcubiere Drives provide almost instant FTL travel.
They don't join the military at 7, no, they receive their first weapon at 7, their society is based around militarism and like every militarist society, they have military camps for those interested in the army (which is most of the kids) they dont train them like soldiers but they receive knowledge and etc, like modern military academies.
Helldivers 100% are elite fighters but I wouldn’t put them on par with a space marine (not that you have) I’d say they’d be equivalent if not slightly better than tempestus scions
They also operate their destroyer, strategems, all sorts of energy and high calibre weapons , hack terminals, go after high value targets, probably trained to sustain g force while in hellpod, operate nuclear silos etc.
Preach
I think the reverse-engineering of the Super Earth is its major advantage. In the Imperium, the use of Xeno technology is considered heresy, but Super Earth has no such problems. Whatever they could find in Aeldar, Necrons or Tau worlds, they would surely use.
Tau especially, considering no warp shenanigans stemming from tau’s low warp imprint.
Well the Imperiaum won't like them doing that at now there at war with them
That's cute you think they'd survive long enough to do anything in the 40k universe much less reverse engineer tech... I like them, they are a fun group of humans but come on... They have about 21st century weaponry or a little better, the damn lasgun does the damage of a .50 BMG a 7.32 nato is not going to do much to nids, orks, tau armor or chaos deamons or chaos astartes. They would be toast rather fast if they stayed on one world for long.
The ad mech reverse engineer things all the time, but since they're only in alliance with the Imperium they keep a lot of stuff to themselves, when they do give something to the Imperium they say it was "rediscovered". The ad mech are the whole reason the necrons are waking up because they wanted that tech.
@taliawtf6944 my brother in democracy you forgot that even the basic handguns can kill a machine made out of steel, so we can presume the ammo of the rifles, machine guns, their laser weapons, and explosives would be enough to take down whatever undemocratic lifeform they find
Literally tell the Helldivers that the emperor is big into democracy, they gonna love the dude
They're gonna build a big statue of Emperor and their version of Lady Liberty shaking hands as a sign of their alliance
@@ItsChevnotJeffthis reminds me of the two Ranger statues shaking hands in the Mojave Outpost from Fallout New Vegas
Super Earth spawns into the 40k universe. 5 minutes later the Helldivers are an Imperial regiment on par with the Elysian Drop Troopers with double the fanaticism because the God Emperor is the ultimate manager of democracy. That or Super Earth gets a tour of the webway offered by the Drukharii. Whoever notices them first.
On par? Each Helldiver has their own starship support vessel.
@@ZrrMe the don’t need the webway, Helldivers would probably be a substantial threat because of their FTL travel, which their Alcubiere drives are faster by a long run compared to warp travel.
@@Abb0able Yeah, a ship that in WH40k would do shit, mostly the Helldivers if they were an Imperial Regiment by their own, no Imperium technology, they would get massacred in every encounter they fight.
@@nosense8744 super destroys are small, but they make up for that by having crazy firepower. They are glass cannons. Also to inform you the Helldiver Corps Super Destroyer is not the Super Earth Navy, the Navy has larger vessels.
@@glukhar_agapov9990 Ok, right, but you really think any Super Earth Vessel will be capable to even destroy thr weakest battleship? Frigates are large as heck, 1km for a Frigate (Depends the class but Battle frigates are about this size while the escort ones are the size of a SD) Ok, maybe they can damage an imperial vessel but what about the Necrons? Tau? Eldar? CHAOS which is just the imperium but better and disorganized or even the ORKS AND TYRANIDS those mf can gather thousands of vessels in a matter of nothing and most of those are as resistant as a cruiser.
I firmly believe the Helldivers 2 achieve a WAAAAH! The fanaticism for Managed Democracy would somehow tap into the immaterium similar to how the Sisters of Battle can call miracles down through their fervor.
It is so powerful children reported their parents just for not raising their hands during allegiance to the flag of SE
@ Based
Helldivers are well trained if you even go to the lore of super earth you’ll find that most kids are more trained than a
adult that just started the military and if you see the game play of helldivers they can use every single weapon stratagem basically any weapon perfectly and fine because a random dude from the street can’t use sniper rifle in fact reloading is hard unless your trained and we see that helldivers use every weapon perfectly plus to even be a helldiver you need a few years of seaf experience and the tutorial is just the final exam of the helldiver plus aren’t tutorial’s supposed to be short and fast saying that helldivers aren’t trained is wanna the most internet thing I’ve ever heard
Edit: super earth can destroy planets with the dark fluid and even if they run out its said that a super destroyer can level a small moon so a few super destroyers would destroy the surface of a planet
Don't mix gameplay with lore. That's jus not how it works. Some of your points make sense, but most of it is jus dibble dabble.
@@popcornog5059according to arrowhead the gameplay is also lore even overpowered bugs
John Helldiver is canon according to Arrowhead too.
@@SuperRoboPopoto lmao
I'll just say this... It took only 50 helldivers to take over a planet in the first galactic war.
laughs in ctan shard
Laughs in Guilleman😂😂
Sounds like it was a pushover planet then. It sure as hell takes more than 50 hell divers to take even the easier worlds in the actual game
A few Space Marine would make that a lot more difficult
It was the capital of an enemy faction. It was the 2nd most technilogically advanced out of the 3 enemies.@@GreaterGrievobeast55
Space marines and Helldivers fighting together would be my absolute Powerfantasy. Just imagine, Space Marines holding a fortified position, blasting everything with bolters, helldivers between them calling in barrages or orbital lasers and every time a Helldiver dies a hellpod drops on the largest enemy.
Super earth is in possession of the one thing that can defeat chaos, hope.
The Imperium cannot allow hope to exist,because it is a threat to the power of the Ecclesicarchy
@@jamesricker3997 that and also not really believing “gods” per say. Isn’t that why the Tau have a small signature towards Chaos, is because they don’t “believe/perceive” them as gods.
Hope also would make them resistant to chaos
That's stupid, hope is the only thing that maintain the imperium afloat why would the ecclesiarchy want to stop it xD
It's literally hope and faith to the Emperor of Mankind or now called the God-Emperor of Mankind that Imperium still afloats, what the fuck are you smoking at? no, superearth are mortals and can be easily susceptible to corruption.
The chaos gods were never weak to hope. Tzeentch is literally a god of hope.
About the average guardman. Do not mistake conscripts and normal guards. Some regiments are even pretty much elites in themselves with a long history of veterancy and specialists like: Elysean Troops, Armaggeddon Steel Legion, Catachan jungle fighters,... Medias often show them as pitiable and unskilled to show off how great the Space Marines are. But the Guard hold the line and win where Marines ran away in the deep lore. Some SM chapters are very infamous for refusing to help because they don't want to suffer loss -> Iron Hands.
Fun Fact: The lasgun you look down upon can be sacrificed as an improvised grenade to take down a space marine or at least incapacitate him.
Thank you for reading my little rant.
Realistically Helldivers and SEAF forces are decently trained, we are getting the gameplay tongue in cheek treatment, but Helldivers and the SEAF forces are not only fighting, but also winning a galactic war, you don't do that unless your troops have a certain level of competence beyond sheer luck.
And helldivers canonically have conquered worlds with only 50 divers or so, so they have to be competent and capable.
The most likely thing that happens is that Helldivers are uploaded with advanced combat tactics and weapons training during cold sleep and when a Helldiver is sent to replace a casualty, they are uploaded with a short data burst that tells them what is going on in the current operation so that they can immediately replace the Helldiver that they are replacing.
Although their is a problem that Imperial Guard looks down universally at PDF units due to they view them as fully inferior even though the Imperial Guard force has suffered multiple defeats against PDF forces so they have a bad habit of looking down at other human forces that isn't Imperial guard.
This was great and provoked a lot of thought like below.
I don't disagree that Super Earth's intelligence and propaganda arms could handle Chaos' corrupting ways, but I guess I'd disagree that the they would not see the warp and chaos as possible resources to exploit. Especially keeping in mind(if I remember correctly) that the Emperor used warp manipulation to make the original Primarchs, the Ministry of Humanity may consider interacting with Tzeench to get psycher soldiers or the Ministry of Science and Truth may consider tapping into Tzeench to see how that God works. Ministry of Humanity and Science may consider studying Nurgle's ability to shrug off illness and damage; Prosperity may be convinced Slaanesh might make the people more content(if Prosperity tilt's its head when it looks at Slaanesh); and Ministry of Defense and Truth might enjoy how much Khorne get's their Helldivers reaved up for the fight.
I think you're entirely right about the Mechanicus wanting to take Super Earth's stuff, but I don't know if the Empire at large wouldn't see the Super Earth as just another set of rebellious worlds. Which does beg the question of scale. Helldivers are a galactic sized empire(if I remember correctly), did all of them get transported or just Super Earth itself in this scenario?
In this scenario, I basically transported the most populated systems under Super Earth's control. Trying to harness Chaos is a one way road to corruption though, but it's interesting to consider what would happen exactly.
@@RedHierophant23 I actually think that a single system would work out better for Super Earth. Like Rome, they are obviously capable of expanding to empire status from just one small place(comparatively), and if they started off fighting all over the galaxy at once before knowing what is happening, they may just be strained for resources and spread thin like the Imperium.
Even though a Chaos take over of Super Earth would be interesting, I think your concept of a new Chaos god of "Managed Democracy" coming into existence is far more a interesting concept. Part of me wonders if it would eventually take over the AI as that is the core of Managed Democracy in a similar way that the Emperor's throne acts like a beacon that can sometime emanate cryptic messages.
Super Earth still has the thing that can beat Chaos, HOPE
@@cheynewillingham2107 Funny thought, because the believing population vastly outnumber the cynical manipulators who know what's actually going on, said Chaos God would actually reflect the propaganda, rather than the reality. (and thus potentially join Gulliman and the Emperor in the Ultradepression club.)
@@jamesricker3997
HOPE and this steaming cup of LIBER-TEA! 🦅🦅🦅
Helldivers have alot more combined arms advantage for every soldier, they most likely would lose just to the amount of industry and manpower the imperium has however.
IF they fought the Imperium, yes. That's probably the worst choice they could make though.
You fail to realize that Super Earth is basically the entire Milky Way Galaxy under human control. Their logistics/industry rival or probably out perform the Imperium.
@@glukhar_agapov9990cope
But Muh titans! (ICBM)
But Muh Psykers! (guns work just fine on shielded Illuminates)
But Muh Fortress worlds! (Every. Single. Super destroyer carries enough ordinance to obliterate a 'small moon' according to random ship master dialogue.)
In all due seriousness, Super Earth is more 40k (or perhaps 30k) than most may want to consider (I mean your super destroyers are manufactured on *Mars* for liberty's sake!) but sleeker and better organized, complete with technological regression too!
Example: Reinforcing in the first galactic war was possible due to 'Flash Cloning', while Reinforcing in Helldivers 2 is possible because when you finish your training you are the last of a ship load of trainees who are all issued to the same ship (further reinforced by the Democracy officer dialogue "I only regret that I have but one ships worth of lives to give to our cause")
Now, go out there and make your (Duly & fairly elected) Emperor proud.
You say that like that stuff doesn’t all exist in the 40K universe as well, only cranked up to 11. Guns exists in 40K, yet Psykers are still a very real threat. Cadia took the brunt of countless chaos incursions, many led by ships that could more than destroy a moon with the firepower they held, and still stood firm. Deathstrike missiles, virus bombs, cyclonic torpedos, all of these cause massive devastation but yet, aren’t a “push button to win” weapon. The 40K universe is overpowered to the extreme, and that’s half of the fun of it. The Imperium encounters civilizations with better tech and soldiery than Super Earth in the Great Crusade and all of them are no more. I think Super Earth would put up a solid fight in the 40K galaxy, but would likely ground down by the sheer weight of all that is trying to kill them. Tyranids and Necrons alone would be a nightmare, as they are for any faction that encounters them, and their lack of knowledge on what Chaos is/can do would be a serious detriment and leave them open for corruption/possession.
bullets do work on psykers, if they are not projecting a psychic shield, watch astartes. psykers can also tear holes in reality (on purpose or accident) summoning eldritch horrors from hell (chaos daemons) which are not particularly susceptible to damage, think ethereal ghost with physical bullets passing through harmlessly, hence daemon hunters with specialist equipment, they dont die either, just go back to hell for time out.
titans have star ship grade energy shields. watch the horus heresy trailer to get an idea.
fortress worlds have ground based lasers designed for destroying ships in the void of space.
thats not getting into necrons, or astartes. 1 on 1 hell divers are likely the equivalent of a tempestus scion skill and equipment wise.
Psykers can actively stop projectiles with their minds, illuminates aren’t the same as psykers, curious how heavy ordinance works Titans, it exists in 40K but they are still viable, can be chalked up to plot but still, and destroying a small moon
, and the exterminatus from the Imperium are different levels, especially since inquisition carriers have enough ammunition to glass several unreliable worlds. Actually if you think about it, Bile Titans and automaton Stalkers (AT&AT things) are tiny versions of titans that can survive 500KG bombs so Super Earth likely doesn’t have anything that can effectively take out a titan
@@brickphone8069 dont forget imperial titans are also equipped with void shields so they would have to get through those first before hitting the titan itself
@@DarkMaster2522 Yeah, I don’t think HellDiver Stratagems could take out a Titan, they’d likely just be an incredibly well funded Guardsmen Regiment since they’re numbers and wargear is a lot better than Guardsmen Gear and they seem to have real training. I do see the Imerpium absorbing them and then reallocating their funding and resources, tuning stratagem tech
Super Earth honestly kind of wins 40k. They are completely Chaos and Genestealer immune thanks to their extremely high control over population. They might lack a proper space marine, sure, but I riddle you this - what will happen when a Helldiver throws a Railcannon at a Marine? You get a dead Marine. Imperium only has around 2 million Marines after the Primaris project. Even if each Helldiver died instantly after that one throw, Super Earth can spam a few million Helldivers and not really feel the difference.
Also, I highly disagree with the threat of Dark Eldar - Imperium's reaction speed is INCREDIBLY slow. A planet will on average get reinforced after 2 years (yes, YEARS) after the distress call is sent and only when it is a full scale invasion. Super Earth usually knows what is happening within minutes and responds also within minutes, simply because of how fast their FTL is. Dark Eldar get annihilated every single time they try to raid any SE planet.
Super Earth is literally like Dark Eldar on mega steroids.
They warp in a stupid amount of ships. Those ships all deploy Helldivers on the surface. The planet get's conquered within 1-2 days on average. Imperium responds quickly and sends a fleet in 3 months.
Now several things can happen - either SE tries to contest this, or gives up. If it gives up, the planet get's reconquered literally days after the Imperial fleet leaves and everything goes back to square one for the Imperium. If SE tries to contest, then the fighting looks like this: SE warps in a stupid amount of small ships all at once, they all fire a few salvos and instantly jump out. Imperium has basically no ability to deal with this sort of space warfare. Sure, some SE ships will get destroyed, but they have an EXTREMELY efficient war industry even in comparison to the real world - compared to the Imperium, there is abslutely no contest, SE just outproduces them per capita maybe even hundreds to one.
The other option is that Imperium will deploy a stupid amount of Guardsmen to garrison a planet, after it had been conquered and reconquered several times. In that case, SE can simply... Nuke the planet into oblivion. It's not like they lack explosives - a single 170 m long Super Destoryer can level a small moon, taking a few thousands and firing at one planet will rip it's surface apart.
After finally realising that ALL fights against Super Earth will look like that, Imperium does the only winning move they can - assemble a large fleet and send it to siege Super Earth's core worlds one by one. This fleet can not be intercepted until it enters the system, because of how Warp travel works, but in general Imperial ships usually leave warp at the edge of the star system to not collide with anything by an accident. This is now a test of kill speed basically - can Super Earth destroy huge Imperial ships fast enough that the siege fails? Super Earth will of course use the rapid jump in and out tactics, as it is the most sensible for them.
Here, I believe that Imperium in general has enough ships to successfuly siege and destroy/capture those worlds. But it does not have enough ships to do this while at the same time dealing with all other factions. Imperium wins 1v1, but loses in actual setting.
The fleet retreats, defeated.
SUper Earth wins vs Imperium
Super Earth wins vs Eldar of all varieties, as they do what Eldar do, but way better.
Mechanicus might have Arks that will be problematic, but nothing SE can't handle with jump swarming.
Orks are honestly laughable. It would be like fighting Imeprium that can not shoot back properly. Yeah, they are more numerous and usually tougher, but that does not really make a difference for jump swarming in space and airstrikes on the surface.
Tau lose, unless they can reverse-engineer Super Earth's FTL. Even then, SE has higher population control and is more militarised than Tau.
Tyranids are a problem for sure. They can deal with a hive fleet, but several at once will most likely cost them a lot.
Necrons are the only actual threat. SE "technically" can deal with a World Engine by injecting it with Dark Fluid enough, but it is not a realistic option. Overall, Necron tech is simply better than SE's and their reaction time can make them a massive problem for jump swarming tactics.
So yeah. They not only survive - they THRIVE. As long as they do not piss off Necrons too much.
No
@@debasishgoswami9896 The reason being?
@@kompatybilijny9348 Two names: Roboute Guilleman and Lion El Johnson 😂 It will be a field day for both Primarchs dealing with Super Earth and will Super colonized them and incorporate them into the Imperium with ease.
@@kompatybilijny9348 plus Belasarius Claw will reverse engineer FTL of Super Earth and incorporate them on imperium ships cause he doesn't give a damn about tech Heresy 😂😂 Overall Super Earth is done the moment the Primarchs decides to step in. Super Earth will prosper under the benevolent rule of the Emperor 😊😊
@@debasishgoswami9896 Primarchs are good at directly fighting. Tell me, how well a silightly bigger human fares in space battles? Not that good. Even with their regeneration and plot armour, Imperium simply lacks the technology to win against the jump swarm tactics. Super Earth has no flagship that can be boarded by a Primarch and instantly win the battle.
Yeah I hate to say it, but Super Earth would get stomped. The Imperium controls the entire civilized galaxy, and they’re just _barely_ holding on by a thread
The Imperium is far too large for it's own good. A smaller Empire like the Tau can survive just fine, because the bulk of the attention is always focused on the Imperium. Super Earth has enough tech and abilities that would permit them to just slip through the cracks.
I feel like a big point on their side is also their ability to reverse engineer stuff and if they managed to ally with the Imperium, they could easily survive.
Like I said on the video, Super Earth fought a worn on THREE FRONTS and WON. That's really impressive, in my opinion.
Counterpoint: Super Earth fought the entire rest of the galaxy.
No, not "most of"
No, not "a lot of"
No, not "the majority of"
The ENTIRE rest of the galaxy. By themselves. The bugs, cyborgs, and illuminates weren't fighting one another, and they owned the ENTIRE rest of the galaxy in the First Galactic War.
The Imperium struggles while controlling 60% of the Milky Way.
Super Earth bodied its way through the entire Milky Way, conquered and defeated all their foes, then REINTRODUCED THEM so they would have MORE enemies to fight.
Super Earth can't even fall to Chaos, due to managed democracy.
@@ZeroNumerous That doesnt mean anything since these two fictional worlds are populated by different kinds of factions and enemies. Just pecause super earth thrived in their version of the milky way doesnt mean they are necessarily well equipped to deal with the shit the 40K milky way is packing
@@RedHierophant23While that’s partially right the Tau are a faction that is only alive due to being neglected by other major factions, they are nearly invisible to chaos and that kept them safe early on, Super Earth citizens would have bright souls and would attract the full wrath of chaos along with whatever enemies are nearby, their biggest assets are their ftl travel and fleets, their ground soldiers stand no chance against anything other than the most basic infantry of each faction, they’d live as long as they went unnoticed but the Helldivers and Super Earth the most hostile obnoxious force in their galaxy so they likely won’t be quite and be put down by nearest 40K faction they find
@@ZeroNumerousManaged Democracy wouldn’t remove human emotions and tactics, plus the forces they dealt with are far weaker compared to 40K forces, if they up their tech they could maybe keep up, but they legitimately have nothing to deal with bullshit like a Bloodthirster
My projection on how this might go:
Super Earth's elite forces occupy a unique role in the Imperium of Mankind's vast military apparatus. Granted rare sanction by Gulliman acting on the Emperors orders, and having their own treaty with Mars brokered by the Primarch himself, Imperial Guard Generals either rejoice at learning Helldiver reinforcements are here (Notice I did not say 'on the way' as they often bear the message of their own arrival faster than any but an Imperial Courier, while often bringing forward messages themselves.) or dread their appearance.
Side note: The Imperial Courier's are a large part of Super Earth's Tithe to the Imperium, advanced FTL ships modeled on the Super Destroyers design that provide direct message transference service for time critical messages. Data transfer duty between forgeworlds of the Adeptus Mechanicus are part of the Mars Treaty as well. Because Super Destroyers are as fast as the Courier brethren, Helldiver deployments can also mean updated orders for Imperial forces in a battle zone. Rumors of Super Destroyer/Imperial Courier ships with Inquisitorial markings are absolutely true, despite official denials.
Like the Imperial Knights, Titan Legions and the Space Marines themselves, Helldiver deployments can be requested but not compelled, and rejecting the 'offer' of Helldiver support is a politically difficult proposition for an Imperial Guard General or even Planetary Governor. Comparatively, Imperial Guard regiments that are assigned to aid Super Earth's Federation in defending it's holdings (akin to how Ultramar is a subdivision of the Imperium, and carved out of former Xenos territory bordering the Segmentum Solar.) usually end up in high spirits, as they find the SEAF a cut above most planetary defense forces. There is some risk of cultural misunderstandings due to the seeming Xenofarming of 'Terminids' by the Super Earth Federation, so Imperial Guard regiments who have a service history relating to the Tyranids are generally not given such duties.
Those Imperial Guard Generals who do appreciate Helldiver support often understand how to motivate them and how their peculiar dialect of low gothic informs their use of high gothic. In general, the Helldivers are given an objective where collateral damage is a virtue and allowed to operate independently. One exception to this is during sieges. When imperial civilian populations are behind enemy lines and holding out against them, Helldivers are one of the few support options available to the Imperium that can do enough damage to turn the tide of a siege. (Aside from Space Marines, who are far less numerous.) That being said, the use of Helldivers in regular pitched battles has gained some traction among the tactica, as few foes can pick out the single infantryman directing the orbital fire support, and it is far easier to ensure said support is not disrupted (removing much of a Helldiver's strategic value) with the army than behind enemy lines.
The Imperial Navy hold a remarkable contempt for the Super Destroyers (As they see Helldivers as ordinance.) due to often needing to provide escorts for them to ensure their successful operation planeside. That being said, the Navy does enjoy gunnery contests for precision orbital bombardment and Admirals who favor swarms of lighter vessels are often glad to bring such improved orbital bombardment capacity to the defense of humanity. The Space Marines reaction to the Helldivers can be as varied as relations between the Marines and the Imperial Guard, and often as quietly condescending.
Bonus fun:
On the tabletop, a Helldiver is generally taken akin to an Imperial Assassin, just with a focus on orbital bombing stratagems. Though easily killed if caught in the open, they do have impressive personal firepower depending on wargear choices, with weapons that fill any role one might need quite well... often ignored by players in favor of having 'all the orbitals'. A common sacrificial tactic is to have them deep strike into the field and immediately throw out a powerful orbital strike marker, fully accepting the Helldiver will be dead by next turn and trusting the 'Reinforcements' rule to bring them back into reserves afterwards. (It is only a 1 in 6 chance to fail on the first time after all.) Suddenly needing to not be near an objective to control it, for fear of 380mm devastation can swing a game by itself, so say nothing of the Helldiver's absurdly high objective control value. (More than an entire squad of most troops in a single model.)
Helldivers are not poorly trained, just one is the equivalent of an Army on their own, it takes a few named ultramarines to do the impossible, key word being named, the rest are cannon fodder by comparison, meanwhile the Helldivers are just that, no names, they're the equivalent of special forces, in the SEAF, the ones that get called in when being diplomatic doesn't work.
Guardsmen aren't poorly trained, and a lasgun is only poor against 40k level of targets.
You'd be terrified of a criminal armed with a lasgun in our modern day. An army with them would be unstoppable.
Everytime someone says "poorly trained" and "15 minutes of training" is a dolt with no knowledge of Helldivers lore and that they suck at playing the game because only a traitor dies so easily.
I think the imperium would let them join just to get that space drive system so as to avoid the warp and travel anywhere instantly.
i can imagine the navigators will throwing fits of rage when they hear warp travel is outdated...
Yeah no, the Imperium will kill them on sight simply because they dont use the warp
Imperial Guard are not cannon fodder, nor are they poorly equipped, that's a common misconception. Imperial Guard are the best picked troops from the planetary defence forces and are well trained and prepared troops. It's just that they often have to fight unreasonably overpowered enemies using reasonable tactics, which leads to high losses, since you're putting up an average human against larger, stronger and occasionally faster enemies. Their strength lies in combined arms tactics rather than individual soldiers. If they were to be cannon fodder, Imperium would've lost every single war pretty damn quickly. Also average lifespan of an imperial guardsman is counted in hours rather than minutes, which obviously gives the idea which army has worse training and treated like a cannon fodder. But otherwise I can see them siding with the Imperium as it would make the most sense, since both of these factions are human-centric, have shared goals and fight clearly hostile aliens. Imperium are the only good guys in warhammer 40k from a human perspective.
that depends on the world some will do their best others will send their worst so it's a mixed bag.
@@jasonsaalbach5786 Yeah but most of the time the Guard Regiment are very well hardened, there was even a time where 3 of the most well known and elite regiments along with the grey knights, ecclisearchy foot soldiers, sisters of battle and some more space marine chapters got steamrolled in 3 hours by a fucking Hive Fleet.
@@nosense8744 Not exactly most most info we have are on ones of note but the Imperium has habbits of sending regiments to areas of combat they will perform horribly on like sending a very posh cavily unit to fight in the jungles.
but their are several numbers of green forces as well with the huge casualties the Imperium has so you do have battle hardened units as well as green units as well.
I agree, except that you might be misinterpreting the lifespan. The lifespan mentioned for Helldivers is the absolute minimum, meaning that they are pretty much guaranteed to survive for minutes. In real life, this is usually counted in seconds.
@@OswaldM_14 Well it's the average lifespan not the normal so I would say considering how dangerous the missions are ya you can have casualty rates like that while having very well trained guys. or even afteragely trained. Although tenchically if you look further every person in super earth seems to have weapons training and gurrillia tactics training as almost standard education for at least civilians.
14:58 "how easy it is to convince them to Kennedy dissidence"
man that right there blew me out of the water it was so slick
I love how smoothly that flows.
Oh their is one major problem also with a difference between super earth and the Imperium and this would be huge compaired to the two how fast the Imperium responds compaired to Super Earth. Super Earth responds pretty fast to things that happen with in the length of days to weeks for the imperiun if can take years to centuries before the Imperium responds to things. Their is a real possibility that Super Earth could take over a subsector (at worst case senario...actually worst case senario is an entire sector) and dig itself in and fortiry itself to heck augmenting the defenses and fleets it has as well as improving and training all civilians in every hive city basic weapons training and how to conduct gurrilla warfare.
And if we go by how things to the Imperium is more likely to completely underestimate the threat the first time and it would also raise a question as to how much forces they could raise againt Super Earth while they will respond and attack they also have to worry about the constant fights with enemies every where so they don't want to weaken a front to much. So we might have a battle fleet or crusade that's much weaker than normal due to they underestimated the problem.
The Imperium takes centuries to respond, yes but this is because every sector fleet is capable to deal with a Black Crusade (Thousands of Chaos Space ships), and even taking a Planet for SE will cost much more than expected, pretty much almost all of the invading force, and even if they manage to take one planet, once the notice arrives to Guillinman or a Lord Admiral about a new threat they would go on crusade since right now the imperium is not in good place to understimate their foes. The civil populance will pretty much riot and kill the Helldivers and SEAF before the Imperium arrives IF THEY ARE LUCKY, if not then chaos will react to them first. But if the Imperium arrives, they have literall no way to even hit and Imperial Ship, this is because the void shieds, then the guardsman will arrives, better prepared, trained and hardened troops with much more technological equipment, tanks with armor capable or resisting several missiles, Space Marines soldiers so fast that can kill a dozen of SEAF members in a rush, orbital bombardments that can tear apart HIVE cities, not normal cities, HIVE. And all of this in the millions (Except for the ships, Space Marines and Bombardments)
@@nosense8744 if that's true then the Tau couldn't be able to even take Imperium ships and apparently in some novels now the Tau actually took over HIve worlds and they have less troops available than SE.
And unlikley they woulr riot Human worlds and even nations on worlds go to war on eachother in the imperium almost all the time. the Imperium won't really care as long as the Imperial tith keeps moving. the Hive cities might just think their under control of a new groups since who took over are other humans I mean litterally these are humans.
I mean I'm not sure why your saying they would riot if anything their is alot of stuff with the Hive cities actually not rioting even if their enslaved by the orks or other groups.
The other things is your not counting about tech advancement. as well as reverse engineering. with the speed they can travel Super Earth can move and reinforce stuff very quickly. How long would it take for Super Earth to reverse engineer lance batteries or augment their shields to handle them better.
A few things though also Super Earth has tech roughly equivalent to the Tau if you think of it while the Tau does have it better the problem is that if what your saying also is accurate the biggest problem is how was the Tau able to eventually create a stalemate in space combat. Also if the Tau or even the Orcs can hit Imperium ships as well as destroy them so can Super Earth you can't simply assume that they can't hit them due to void shields. The Orcs use projectile weapons that can eventually go though and bring down void shields. and the Tau weapons do as well. So why can't super earth's I dough Super Earth's tech is less that what the orks have.
Also every space deployment and troop deployment I've looked over in the lore has mostly numbered in the tens of thousands sometimes hundreds of thousands or millions. But even now having a million soldiers isn't that big a deal those numbers are pretty common. Ship wise I've never seen the numbers in a deployment go above the tens of thousands range maybe hundred thousand.
Also considering how the space drive super earth has if they probably have weaponized versions of that drive for combat purposes think of a projectile that can span the distance of the galaxy in seconds moving right at your ship. could void shields actually be able to tank a hit moving that fast or would it cause the shields to collapse . And even if they don't lore did say it can destroy a small moon so while small it has a lot of firepower so it would be able to do some damage to imperial ships even if it might not have the staying power but it can likely give some of their ship a good mauling in a one to one attack but were more likely going to see multiple super destroyers engaging single imperial ships.
Next the imperial response is usually based on a measured response compare how much tith the planet gives and compare it to how fast the planet fell if it's still fighting against the invaders they might not consider it important since the PDF are handling it. if it fell pretty quickly they would take it more seriously. But the response would be base on how much tith and how fast worlds are falling to them. this is due to the Imperium is surrounded by enemies everywhere and in every sector and subsector the fleet is always deployed so you might have one to three ships around to cover several systems in most normal cases while any large concentrations are likely currently doing things like already engaged in one war and planning to move to the next war after that or to resupply.
and with the imperium actually occupied with the current chaos invasion and such the Guilaman might take a realize view on the take over as at least that's on sector he can worry about later since it's occupied by another human faction he might mistake it for a inner imperium war between two worlds.
I just see multiple possibility and things that could happen which doesn't really guarantee that the Imperium can respond that smoothly with that much force as well as being that easy to handle the forces of Super earth.
I mean it's also possible that they might not get any space marines due to their are only 1000 astraties per chapter and they can't go to every world every time. They have to prioritize. So it's possible that the Space marines might not even show up.
Also you do realize that Their are many many insadents where PDF forces with less tech lesser tanks and equipment than a Lasgun and flack armor have humbled the Imperial guards most elite forces before. Like the Death Korpse of Krieg and such have supered defeat at the hands of PDF forces and their less equipped than actually they can't even compair to a single helldiver in equipment.
@@nosense8744 OH their was also another thing to with all the chaos going on you can have several hives actually either abandoned by the imperium or not noticed with all the stuff going on so their is a good chance some hives might fall under super Earth's sway simply due to the fact that Super Earth has a Fleet and forces that can help Hive worlds properly defend themselves. Or even resupply hive worlds if their not getting any imperium food shipments any more thus making them fulyl dependant on Super Earth. the fact that theImperium made all their worlds to not be self sufficient as much as they could is a large weakness Super Earth would likely exploit before they fully relaize their situation.
Has everyone forgot their *BLACK HOLE GUN* that casually destroyed a planet?
The warhammer 40k universe hos one thats way quiker to destroy a planet
You made a mistake with the Hell Divers not being elite. The avg life span of "2 minutes" in military terms means what is guaranteed survival after firefight start. After that the military does not guarantee survival after that, (an avg). For example a US vietname soldier life expectancy is like 20 seconds for a gunner. So on and so forth. It's measured in seconds.
So the fact that a Helldiver is 2 minutes, that's insanely good for what is effectively a bro juiced rifle man with strategems. Also consider that they have been soldiers since age like 7, since super earth have child soilders. You have to be 18 to be allowed to be a Helldiver though.
oh also their is one other thing to think on Space Marines are not good with attrition due to it takes about I think it was either decades or a hundred yearof training to train an astraties and every chapter is only 1000 space marines. THeir is insadents in the books and lore where some Chapter masters pulled back their forces due to they were having to many casualites. Their was one chapter master launched an attack on a shipyard only to call a retreat when to his surrpise in a few hours his forces had around 15 losses and they were haiving a kill ratio of 200 to 1. That means 200 enemis to one space marine and he calleda full retreat. This was due to if they had tried to destroy all the ship yards as he planned he wouldhave had to sacrifice his enetire chapter with those losses. So if the space marines get enough of a casualty ratio they would hesitate to launch attacks if the Helldivers can have a kill ratio of 200 helldivers to one space marine and those that is a ratio I can picture the helldivers getting on simply by virture of share firepower they can unleash on them be it stratagems to some very heavy lethal weapons shooting or to launching nukes on the Space Marines to a rediculous degree. This would make the Helldivers actually a force the SPace marines would be hesitent to fight them.
Those quick missions are perfect hit and runs. The quick space travel, decent naval firepower, and advancing tech would let a small democratic nation shift its force to critical fight after critical fight. I'd love a follow up video breaking down the small arms and support weapons abilities to deal harm to warhammer factions. As in, in a scenario that a veteran helldiver had a space marine dead to rights with a railgun could he land a fatal hit?
Potentially. A solid argument can be made that Imperial Guard issue Bolt weapons are basically what the Dominator gyrojet rife are. That gives us a decent idea of baseline firepower for small arms.
You know what would be a really interesting thing it would be how a Hive would be impacted under the control of the Federation? Living their would likely change drastically as the Buro of Expansion would probably have been received more funding and form what some info goes they train every colonist in guerilla tactics as well as equip them. So they can defend themselves until help arrives. Only recently the Buro of expansion had received budget cuts but picture how different the Imperium would be if every citizen was taught how to fight a guerilla war against the enemies of the Imperium.
another is that for a Corpratocrasy to thrive it needs a flow of cash people need to be buying goods and such and people need reason and ability to buy them. Would be quite the surprise when every worker in the Hive starts to receive salaries for their work and then means to spend them. As well as giving them means of improving their own individual lives with their own hard would. That would be the first time in the hive they have had that ability in memory maybe. This might be rather a shock for the people in the hive but quite effective in turning the Citizens in the hives to the cause of Super Earth as they can see themselves not simply working to improve the Federation but to improve their own lives and their families. Especially when food situations start improving as the Federation will start to try to terraforming the lands around the hives to actually start likely farming projects to get these worlds more self sufficient again. Although with the intent travel time their FTL does it would probably make food deliveries to the Hive worlds under the Federation's control much easier than the Imperium has so food riots would likely happen much less.
It would be pretty interestying to see just how the affect the Federation and their Democratic ideals would have on a hive and how much it would change them simply with the tactic of improving their own quality of life with their own hands to make them work harder. Not sure about how it will affect the Under hive though but but with quality of life generally improving maybe even extending everyone willing to work it would be a tempting offer.
I think is that super earth would suffer a lot at first but would eventually learn from the “resources” left on battlefields be it corpses, pieces of technology or even “extracted”knowledge.
If Super Earth could bring the population, I think you describe it well. But with helldivers taking place in 2184, we can assume Super Earth and colonies only has a population of a dozen to a couple of dozen billion. That's a drop in the bucket. As such, I think Super Earth, no matter how well they individually could do, would just be overwhelmed by the nearest 40k faction.
I say that if super earth ever we’re just to randomly appear, no other faction would be aware of its presence at the time, so if super plays it safe and just keep to themselves, they would last for a bit longer than they are intended, but if let’s say the imperium of man ever discovered them, they would see super earth as possible allies, and both factions have something that they desperately need. The imperium would want their space travel, and in exchange super earth would be protected by the imperium. But if another faction such as the bugs or the heretics discovered them, the tyranids would rip would do what the tyranids always do, they would rip super earth down and inevitably drive them to extinction, the heretics on the other hand would probably not shoot on site but if threatened by super earth, they would just wipe them out so yea IMO super earths only chance to survive is to make peace with the imperium.
If super earth can opperate without paying the usual tide to the imperium they can be a strong asset towards zenos.
Oh you really think Super Earth would ally with the Imperium or even keep it quiet? No, the Imperium once it notices they aren't using the warp and the astronomicon will go on a crusade agaisnt SE just to erase them from existance, and the SE high command ego is to big that they will declare war of the first non human faction they see.
To be fair every one of those soldiers who lives about two minutes has their ownership of the super destroyer change between each held diver at death so not entirely accurate, but still pretty powerful
POORLY TRAINED? How can anyone look at a guy in fully enclosed armor carrying a pistol, small arm and a *crew-served* weapon and have the ability to use this *crew served* weapon solo and with great effect on the move?
SE's approved games are military games. They are hyper militarized. We see in the real world Russia and Korea do things like train children how to disassemble and reassemble a weapon. It would be weird if SE would be less militarized than that. They also get a gun and are expected to be proficient with it when they reach 18 years old. Effectively SE citizens would be closer to basic training recruits than civilians, and then they go through the SE basic training *which takes more than a few weeks*. During a war all new training is shortened, it was like 3 weeks of basic for American soldiers near the end of WWII. So trying to say the in-game basic training is somehow applicable for all SEAF personnel is false.
Helldivers are also recruited from the SEAF. So a minimum of experience is expected.
You also mentioned the ministry of humanity and genetic purity. Those C-O1 forms aren't just to control the population, they are a eugenics program that has lasted generations by HD2. This is why Helldivers can perform what are superhuman feats like the aforementioned carrying of a full battle gear plus crew served weapon. Or their ability to get harmed and still keep going. Like breaking an arm and still being able to fire guns with some accuracy (not much, but some).
Add to that the fact that drugs and stimulants is a common and easily accessible tool for SE, even loading crew can be doped up, and the Helldivers are top of the line. They are closer to superhumans than poorly trained soldiers.
Seriously I had high hopes when the advantage of FTL and logistics were mentioned.
A life expectancy of 2 minutes is also extremely long. Because for example in Vietnam the expectancy was in the seconds.
SE would stomp the 40K world with ease.
First off: numbers. The Helldivers are purely fighting in the rear of the enemy, sabotaging production, supply, command and control etc. They rarely can win by just killing enemies. The SEAF is the group that actually wins the planet after the Helldivers cripple the enemy. This means that the SEAF kills more than the Helldivers to achieve their goals, and the Helldivers can kill more bots in a day than many 40K fights bring in total. This means the scale of warfare on a planet of SE is much bigger. And the speed is even more frightening. By the time a fleet is assembled and send to take back a planet, SE has already taken several more planets. Any planet too tough to take directly (say a Forge World) will be taken on by capturing the planets that supply it (which is the basic way they use Helldivers already).
On top of that the Ministry of Science managed to figure out *extradimensional tech* from the Illuminate within a century. In fact when the Illuminate offered a cure for cancer SE managed to weaponize it early in the war. SE also saw the dangerous bile of the bugs and not only weaponized that as well but also made it more lethal. So they should have little problems reverse engineering Imperial tech first, and then going on to reverse engineer the tech of other factions.
And we haven't even discussed the option of diplomacy. Yes SE does diplomacy mostly by wielding the biggest stick, but that is 100% what the Imperium of Man functions on too! And SE can punish you within minutes of learning you did something against them, while the Imperium can at best respond in weeks to months if they know right away and it can take years or centuries in many cases. And SE then offers far superior living conditions than 40K does as well as a semblance of freedom. They give the masses something to work for. They might effectively trade one tyrant for another, but this new tyrant actually does care for them more than the previous one.
Even if SE meets something dangerous like Necrons, 4 Hive fleets at once or 50 WAAAAGHS and 100 craft worlds that decide they are done with them, SE's expansion is just too darn fast compared to the relatively slow 40K ships and the scale of warfare too big. The bots and bugs use *billions* of units to take a planet. And yet it can take days and hundreds of millions of casualties, and those are just the casualties the Helldivers make not the civilians and SEAF. 40K's numbers just pale in comparison even if you take the "a million have died, send in the next wave" at face value. And once SE starts hybridizing 40K tech with their own, they will steamroll everything.
And we haven't even discussed suckerpunching. SE has plenty of nukes, they'll happily use it on relatively small objectives. We now even see SE cities where SEAF artillery has nuclear shells ready. So taking the SEAF Liberty class ship, which does the space combat since Super Destroyers sure as hell haven't been used for that, this ship can warp in extremely close to the target and launch a dozen nukes of various sizes in quick succession and warp out. And if Super Destroyers are any indication, it would not be uncommon for 30.000+ of these ships to be present at a single battle. 30.000+ ships with the ability to nuclear suckerpunch can demolish any 40K army with ease.
No one seems to realize how ridiculously dangerous the Helldivers universe is. The scale and tech available is just so ludicrous.
The Heldivers are well trained, but are also thrown into the most hostile environments possible
Not really, the Terminids are pretty weak. Same w the men of iron (idk what they're called not referring to the men of iron in 40k)
@@popcornog5059they are their entire society is built to be immediately military trained since childhood fucking children past time is shooting high calibre guns, their school curriculum has military lessons and when they turn 16 they are given the liberator and Helldivers are actually have to go through SEAF training before being a Helldiver
@@popcornog5059nuh uh
Tyranids looking at super earth be like: *BIGGER FOOD*
Helldivers actually train from 7 as they must be seaf officers to even become Helldivers. Although age admission to be helldivers is said to be bout 18.7, it is only admission. Training is actually 9 months. Heck, less than in 1 in 4 people who are admitted survive the training. They may have less experience to space marines but they are not badly trained. Its just that space Marines lived much longer. As for life expectancy, in the war against vietnam, America gave a life expectancy of less than 10 sec for each soldier. However, 9 of 10 soldiers survive. Life expectancy is not about how long they live but how much time they are guaranteed to live for. So for 2 minutes of life exceptancy is actually a heck lot more time. This furthers that Helldivers are more elite.
super earth would easily survive in 40k due to typically overlooked factors, everyone looks at hard factors such as weapons and gigatons of firepower and number of ships but ignore the critical soft factors that win wars more than most. super earth is simply capable of reacting way quicker than the imperium, move way quicker than the emporium and adapt way quicker than the imperium while also having manufacturing systems most likely better than the imperium. while the imperium is getting its head out of its ass and is sending its fleet to deal with this new threat, super earth would of already recognized the imperium, probably mined all possible data from the worlds that either defected or surrendered. and actively adapting new manufacturing facilities that will easily match and probably outpace the imperium of man. this is a society that won a galactic war on 3 fronts, reversed engineered significantly advanced alien tech extremely quickly, and keeps progressing further and further down further advanced techs to a point where they can press a free win button with the black fluid tech and casually use plasma weapons that blow up in your face.
AT THE CORE OF THE ISSUE- super earth is a technologically advanced, hyper xenophobic, fanatic, and militaristic. which by itself fits in 40k but has a natural advantage of not being grim. which gives them an innate ability to actively improve and desire further improvement especially over an adversary such as the imperium.
note: this is a comment of whether super earth can SURVIVE in 40k im not indicating whether they will WIN against anyone. rather super earth has every ability to make a name for themselves on a galactic scale and tip the scales in a different direction
Nice! Do the Borg from Star Trek next -- very curious to see how the techno terror of my childhood would hold up against the horrors of the grimdark.
idea : would forgotten realm's faerun survive in warhammer 40k (including the several planes of dnd as well)
I feel like they would fit Fantasy or Age of Sigmar better, but Forgotten Realm's powerlevel is all over the place, so it's difficult to tell.
@@RedHierophant23 fair point.
Maybe the xeelee books would be more ideal
@@dudeboydudeboy-zj8kd
You're the second person who has mentioned Xeelee. Now I definitely have to check it out.
About as well as an Alfaro maiden world
Maybe I am late after 4 months, but iI gonna leave my own (un)qualified thought on this. People may correct me cause I don´t know to much about 40k, but a thing or two about Helldivers. And I had a smiliar talk with friends once, who are into HD and 40K.
First of all. I don´t think that Helldivers are really poorly trained. Every Helldiver was a SEAF member before and as far as I know, only the best ones get to the Helldiver training. Now this may be just speculation, but I also don´t think that the training in HD2 is the only training a Helldiver gets, as it serves the purpose to introduce the game mechanics to the player. Most things we learn there, should be things every normal SEAF soldier already knows. But yeah, they are still meant to be expendable, but if they are really so poorly trained, Super Earth could just send normal soldiers with a smiliar low amount of training. And why freeze your elite soldiers for later use, if they are so cheap and poor trained?
Even with the low life expectancy of a Helldiver, we shouldn´t forget that a average Helldiver is capaple to deal with dozens to hundrets of enemys much bigger and stronger than him, because even arsenal without orbital or Eagle fire is quite strong and impressive. And we once pointed out, in an argument Helldivers vs Space Marines, you´d see some red beacons followed by orbital lasers and railcannon strikes. How would a SM defend if the railcannon is locked on his head? 4 eagles flying around dropping 500kg and clusters while 380mm shells and orbital napalm rains down. (best loadout in the game btw. take 380, linear barrage, orbital napalm and 120, throw it all into one place and grab some popcorn. for maximum democracy, all 4 Divers should do this)
But I have to disagree to the argument every single Helldiver gets his own destroyer. That´s not the case. During a mission, when a diver dies, they out another one out of the cryo sleep and send him to dive. There are probably more on each destroyer. Lore wise I would say maybe even up to a hundret, given to that we can see many cryo pods on the destroyer. Gameplay wise I´d say at least 5 per destroyer, as we have 20 reinforcements, 5 with each player joining a match. But still I agree that the Super Destroyer is the best weapon Super Earth has. FTL jumps are absolutely OP as stated in the video. From nearly every threat, if to overhwhelming, they can just retreat in the blink of an eye. And we saw that, when Meridia got soaked into the black hole. That we created. Another reason for Super Earth. What stops them from doing the same again against a enemy in the 40K universe? Now, with the acutual major order about the construction of the Democratic Space Station there might come another powerful weapon to the hands of Super Earth.
But the entire weaponry of a Super Destroyer is might the wants to be reckoned. Even though the destroyes itselfes are not that big. The orbital barrages, laser and railcannon can shred about everything, now imagine not only 4, but thousands of them at the same mission, which would be needed if fighting against the Imperium for example. Super Earth probably wouldn´t keep sending 4 man squads as in the current galactic war. And I bet every Space Marine (take the actual SM2 game) would be happy to have close fire support like Eagle. And we should not forget Pelicans cannon either. That thing can fuck up even Bile Titans.
All in all, I think I agree with the video, Super Earth would be able to hold itself in 40K. They have some surprises in their pockets.
But I also might be wrong with what I said, so maybe someone can correct it.
The point about every helldiver getting a super destroyer is both wrong and right, depending on how you interpret the statement. It's wrong to say that a single helldiver gets a super destroyer for himself, but it is correct to say that every helldiver has a super destroyer. There's a difference in those 2 things. You never have a super destroyer with only 1 helldiver on board, but not a single helldiver that gets deployed lacks super destroyer support, so in a sense, yes, all helldivers have a super destroyer.
I disagree with how Chaos would be able to be resisted with managed democracy, while it does make sense the issue is Super Earth citizens aren’t lobotomized drones who think only of managed democracy, they still have wants and aspirations, and being human those wants would be projected into the warp and attract Chaos’s attention, Super Earth’s violent and war like nature would attract Khorne, and the scheming higher ups managing the propaganda would gain Tzeentch or possible Slaannesh attention, their wargear is diverse but has 2 major issues, 1.Being very comparable to real life gear, while that works for Kreig that’s more because of how many bodies they can throw at their problems, 2. They get all their wargear from fleets, if any faction boards their allies ship they loose out on most of their wargear and artillery. They also have nothing to combat psykers, or dent stronger faction units outside of heavy artillery, I would love to see how a titan would handle certain stratagem fire though
I like you points and I feel like they bring up great topics! For your first point I don't feel like their armor is comparable to real life. In heavy armor you can tank multiple missiles, a cannon or tank round and get back up lol. Plus their stealth armor is extremely handy and pings enemies on the map farther than the other armors.
For the second point the Imperium is going to have to fight thru Super Earth's Navy combat ships the Liberty Class Cruisers just to the Super Destroyers. Even then let's see if you try to board a Super Destroyer it wouldn't be possible imo, the SD can orbit a planet in about a second, FTL is crazy, they also have eagles and even if they managed to board it the SD got ordinance laying right out in the open! You think that the crew on board isn't willing to blow themselves up to take out the boarding crew? Thats if they could kill the entire 40+ crew and Helldivers that are armed to the teeth. You could send Astartes to board but the ship is so small it would be hard for them to maneuver so a group of regular humans would be better but eventhen it would be a waste of resources then just shooting the Destroyer out the sky.
They have plenty of things to combat psykers unless they can stop orbital bombardments from falling on their heads lol. You might have to list a psykers abilities out for me as I do not fully know. I heard that Astartes try to fight them in a melee as ballistics don't really work and the Helldivers do have Melee weapons now plus the shields to close the gap. Helldivers come with heavy artillery so that's a mute point as they always have it at hand. I doubt most Titans could have multiple 380s falling right on top of its head but would definitely be cool to know the exact amount of punishment a Titan can take
Really cool video! I learned a lot about Helldivers' universe here than anywhere else. And funny to see that, in general, Super Earth would not be an "easy prey" in general.
But, just so you know, WH40K was the cruelest setting I've ever seen - until it came to my little knowledge the Xeelee's series. Let's just say, to not take so long as I usually do in your videos, that not even the unified Necron's dinasties would have a chance there as far as I know...
Xeelee? Interesting. I might check that out later.
red hierophant you got something wrong about the hell divers, they are highly trained and you're comparing them to real earth, NO the truth is that you can join the super earth military at like 9 years old, so they will have all that training and experience to become a helldiver the most elite of their planet , also the life expectancy is 2 minutes? its actually they will live at least 2 minutes on the battlefield, everything else i think its right.
The imperium would not likely be to friendly depending on the chapter they would ask join the emperor or die btw the imperium has 15 Quadrillion humans in Warhammer with titans dreadnoughts thousands of chapters and an uncountable amount of cannonfauter or imperial gaurds
good video, its put togeather well
Honestly. I’d say the Helldivers and super Earth would be part of the imperium. They’d be like a more advanced version of the Elysian shock troops.
Super earth would lose what makes it super earth if it gets integrated into the imperium. Its culture, it's Tactics, the Zealotry helldivers have to democracy isn't just transferable currently to the imperial cult. It'd all have to be ground up from the foundations.
@@GreaterGrievobeast55 What? Not seeing it. I could see some issues with the Imperial Navy arising but not fully insurmountable ones. Plus, how hard is it for Super Earth's propaganda machine to just say "The God Emperor is the Living Embodiment of Liberty and Front of Freedom!" to nothing but cheers? Sure, the Imperium might blow them apart instead, but that's always a possibility with the Imperium and any independent human civilization.
Super Eartj controls the enitre Milk way btw and each soldier has the ability to carry a weapoon that can 1 tap a space mairne.
I genuinely think a Helldiver could solo a Space Marine easily. Any anti-tank support weapon would be an easy win, the orbital railcannon strike would be an instant gg, a hellpod from a friendly reinforcement would not end well for a marine, and an autocannon sentry would probably also make quick work of one. And that's not even considering the MOST deadly weapon in a Helldiver's arsenal. The 380 mm barrage seems to consciously target and eliminate any human life within its radius, with no chance to escape.
Edit: Fantastic video btw, loved the breakdown of each faction's threat against Super Earth
11:30 Helldivers are the elite. SEAF are the grunts
Theyd most likely have TT stats of:
M: 6, T 3, Sv: 4+, W: 1, Ld: 6, OC: 2
Majority of their weapons would be WS/BS 3+, and they would probably have a FNP 6+ and a chance to heal a lost wound on a 5+
For a base, Id give the basic assualt rifle: range 24", A: 2, S: 3, ap: -, D: 1 keywords: Assault, rapid fire 1.
Then scale everything up or down from there.
Hell divers would be an awesome guard regiment and fit in perfectly. Just add the imperial cult.
Ministry of Truth here. Several studies were performed on a 40k-like scenario like this. The conclusion we found most plausible was that the unwavering Freedom and faith in Managed Democracy citizens of Super Earth have would be capable of collectively neutralizing, or even reversing, the effects of the Warp on living beings. Super Earth Psyker Squads (SEPS) would be incredibly valuable assets in the war against the Chaos Gods with their abilities to convert pure Warp energy into pure Freedom. The teams even floated the idea of creating Democratic Gods of Freedom, Democracy and Liberty as a possible measure, seeing as their functions would align with Super Earth culture and thereby nullifying any risk of corruption.
Combine this with our research into 200% extinction rates against the squids, yes, it would be a cakewalk.
Addendum: Some have wondered about other factions and you can be assured, Super Earth has enough ammunition for all of them three times over. Enough that it is mathematically plausible to shoot the Warp to death.
I think Armored Core would fare pretty well in Warhammer 40k, might even give the Imperium of Man a run for its money.
I don't know Armored Core lore, why tho?
@@nosense8744 ACs are insanely fast and powerful. They are the antithesis to the Imperium's hulking Titans.
While I agree that the helldivers are a capable force, their advantages are really one of two things: numbers and super destroyers, but from what I’ve seen of the super destroyers their weapon batteries are positioned for air to ground support. I feel the ship to ship combat was a neglected topic. Are there any examples of super destroyers engaging in ship to ship combat? I’d have to assume not since they have two major weak points, the rear and the top of the ship where there are no weapons. And even if they were engage face to face, the weapons that can aim to the sides and front are limited. You can’t consider ground forces if the space forces can’t get close enough to deploy them. (Also I’m pretty confident that a single space marine boarding a super destroyer is enough to cripple it entirely)
Also, as we’ve seen in HD2, there are a TON of weather conditions that affect stratagem deployment and tech (as shown by the robots I forgot the name of) that can prevent their use period. So great, you have a ship with massive firepower in atmosphere (that can only be there for so long, I’ll circle back) but you can’t communicate with it until you figure out what’s stopping comms. Back to the lower orbit thing, the super destroyers can only provide support in atmosphere but can only be there for so long (where the 40 minute mission timer comes from) so the SD is only an advantage for 12 to 40 minutes at a time.
The Class 6 Series Crewed Interplanetary Combat Vessel, better known as the Super Destroyer, is a faster-than-light capable warship mass produced for use by the Helldivers of the Super Earth Armed Forces (SEAF). Upon reading the Contract of Employment and completing Helldiver training, each Helldiver is assigned command of a Super Destroyer to carry out their missions.
the super destroyer is only made for Helldivers which is part of the SEAF Each active Helldiver has command of one
The only other known ship currently is the Liberty Class Cruiser
The Liberty-Class Cruiser is a faster-than-light capable warship mass produced for the Super Earth Armed Forces (SEAF). Purportedly, the expenditure of a single Helldiver operation rivals that of the cost to manufacture a Cruiser.
The Liberty-Class Cruiser presumably surpasses the Super Destroyer in both size and armament, boasting a more imposing presence and firepower.
and i quote
"The average Helldiver operation costs as much as a Liberty-Class Cruiser."
- Ship Master
The liberty class even if we havent seen it, Is part of the SEAF Navy meaning theres other ships in canon, probably ones specifically made for Ship to ship battle, its been proven already that the Automatons have their own navy, its the SEAF Navy that are pushing the Automaton navy out the helldivers are the troops made to breach a planet or weaken it enough for normal SEAF units to push in and finish the job.
the only other thing i can really mention that might be considered as ship aswell is the DSS (Democracy Space Station)
Once complete, the DSS will be a new strategic-level weapon. It will wield powerful, Helldiver-directed weaponry to aid in the liberation of its orbited planet. Through a cutting-edge voting system, the Helldivers will determine where to deploy the DSS, and when to use its capabilities.
btw which is within 2 months of research they are able to start making the DSS
super earth doesnt have a problem reverse engineering tech, They will do it and can mass produce it to any Unit/Helldiver within Hours or days, Its canon that the Indestructible energy shield bug was actually from General brasch's stash and the fact that every helldiver had it at some point in time means that they have the industry capable of providing each hell diver one.
btw the DSS seem to be FTL Travel capable aswell
other than that the helldivers we play as are just the ground troops specifically for Covert ops/ Special operations
Theres still the SEAF Navy/Army and such theres even another special operations unit within SEAF called Viper Commandos
Super Earth Navy
Super Earth's Aerospace service branch, responsible for maintaining and crewing its space borne warships like the Super Destroyer and Liberty-Class Cruiser as well as aircraft such as the Pelican and Eagle as well as a fleet of bombers. The Navy's primary mission is to defend and spread freedom as well as economic prosperity by providing orbital support to SEAF forces planet side. They also maintain orbital dominance and keeping the Faster than Light Lanes open as well as transport military personnel and equipment.
Unsurprisingly the Super Earth navy is the current dominant space borne navy in the Galaxy, with the only other fleet that comes anywhere close being the Automaton fleet, with it's tens of thousands of Automaton Fleet Destroyers.
Whilst primary warship of the Super Earth Navy is the Super Destroyer, they also possesses heavier warships in the form of the Liberty-Class Cruiser, which presumably surpasses the Destroyer in both size and armament.
Sources
helldivers.fandom.com/wiki/Super_Earth_Armed_Forces
helldivers.fandom.com/wiki/Category:Spaceships
helldivers.wiki.gg/wiki/Democracy_Space_Station
There is only ONE weather effect that blacks communication with the SD and thats the ION storm but other than that the SD has no problems. Missions are 40 mintues at most because of budget reasons not because they cant but thats what theyve considered to be the most efficient time it should take to finish a mission while not blowimg their budget
If Tau allies created Greater Good in the Warp at one point, I'm pretty sure that all helldivers will just manifest Democracy.
I can tell this person is a 40K fan first and foremost.
First off Helldivers are extremely well trained. People enlist in the military at 7 and then can sign up for the Helldivers program at 18. This is more combat experience than a modern solder in real life.
Secondly they would not alley with a single faction in 40K. They just simply would have no way to modify there current propaganda to allow a faction with a different belief system to live.
Ill drop this here, just like the Tau made the greater good a warp entity. The combined mindset of super earth beleiving in Liberty could create a warp entity as well
It actually just the guevesa and other psychic races in the Tau empire. The amount of devotion and emotion SE has to managed democracy will make the being a full blown god
How about this then, Super earth collabs with the Imperium. With the techs of the Super Earth and the implants of the Imperium. I think it'll gonna be epic.
For those learning managed democracy, it doesn't have to be the way Super Earth does it. A real world example of managed democracy is the USA, it's education system, and it's media that speaks for and support the US government's objectives, it manufactures consent from the people.
Don't know if the orks would enjoy or not fighting weak gitz with wayt too much fire power from above dropping in randomly.
9:30 as far as I know that's not entirely correct. Imperial soldiers are trained moderately well by default unless they are unlucky enough to be thrown into a battle as newbies. Which is also logical, I mean what else do they do all day on ships or in military camps. train.
The problem they have is that they usually fight against creatures that are superhuman, have better technology,
are more in number or
have special powers. and that makes them worse off than they actually are.
But they're not cannon fodder like, what do I know, hormagaunts.
Their training can easily be compared with the standard training of our soldiers on Earth, and even better depending on the regiment.
And their weapon technology isn't bad either, it just depends on what the soldier was trained for and what he's given, although even the classic laser rifle isn't as bad a weapon as people like to talk about (flashlight in some old codex), only in that In Warhammer World there are many weapons that are superior to the laser rifle in terms of penetration.
The armor is ok, it usually only protects parts of the body and is not intended to permanently ward off direct fire like servo armor. it's actually not that good compared to the armament.
I think they are described worse here than they are standard in the lore. It depends a lot on which regiment it is, but the average person should be a good soldier who has to work in a universe where there are too many creatures that are superior to humans.
I think it REALLY depends on the regiment, more than anything. For example, the Cadian Regiment are absolute monsters compared to the "average" guardsman. That's kinda my point, there are a lot of regiments that are exceptional, but as a baseline, guardsman get "stronger" by experience, not because they are particularly well-trained. Hell, most of the regiments don't have the TIME to be well-trained, they are drafted as soon as they can handle their lasgun.
And about their equipment:
It really is that bad when you compare to what Helldivers have access to.
@@RedHierophant23 to be faire helldiver armor can protect helldiver against shot from automatons and they are similar too laser rifle and we can't forget about a stims and how powerfull they are
In terms of training Imperial Guards vary depending on where they came from, Cadians, Vostroyans, Krieg, Tallarns, Moridians and other guard units are very well trained. Unless the person is an Imperial Conscript id say Imperial Guard units are very well trained but receive heavy losses often due to the ridiculousness of the foes they are facing
@@mateusznowak5805 Oh no, Automaton aren't similar to the Flashlight the Imperium has, just to be clear, the flashlight is literally a weapon that fires well light, so every bullet will be the same as the time it takes for a flashlight to make light once it's on, that thing can tore Orks apart, just to be clear, ork skin is pretty much rough like the plate of armour the guardsmen have, even the tau that have fullbody armour die once a Lasgun projectile hits them, dont understimate the Lasgun just because it cant kill a chaos space marine, those guys are buffed by chaos and still get scared once they see a batallion of guardsmen.
Although I disagree with it that was a damn well made video, props 👍
To be honest, I tried to give the benefit of the doubt to Super Earth a couple of times, because they have the capability to "adapt" pretty well.
But it can really go either way.
I will say this would be an interesting story type to look into though. And yes I would say their is a good chance Super Earth would survive would be interesting to see a desperate imperium actually getting help from them or even the Helldivers liberating isolated imperium worlds and pulling those world into Super Earth's sphere of incluence. Or with the Tau. With their mindset being occupied by Super Earth would be much preferable to the Imerpium they might be relieved to see that their colonies being occupied and their citizens being integrated into the population of super Earth and taught the way of Super Earth's culture due instead of killing the populations. If anything that's what they thought would happen when the Imperiums crusade happened with them only to find out the IMperium doesn't do that to aliens they wipe out entire planets or even flood them. if the tau are integrated into super Earth that would prove to be an interesting mix up with the Helldivers and the Tau. Just picture a Tau Helldiver who was part of the Fire warrior cast.
10:30 not quite. Destroyers field about 50 Helldivers or so.
Yeah not gonna lie, if super earth gets to do the thing they did with the illumini with the tau, we could be seeing a new super power in the galaxy, super earth citezen would be almost immune to chaos, and realistically with the ftl tech they got, and whith a crisis Battle suit democratcly altered, the xenos are fucked
The thing is, they would not be able to do what they did with the Illuminates agaisnt the Tau, first, the Illuminates had meele weaponry as their basic weapons, the Tau? Everything is range, they have exosqueletal armor for every soldiers and then a much more bigger version that can fly and fire a laser machine gun, and SE would not be inmune to chaos because they are humans, and humans are like the favorite food of the Chaos Gods and maybe they will be able to respond rapidly thanks to their FTL, but the Tyranids also have one, and talking about the Tyranids, one lesser hive fleet and they are fucked.
@@nosense8744 the thing that iam talking about is: start a friendly relationship with them, and then betray, Tyranids ftl is not good, they can travel self and considerably fast for a good part of the trip, but after that it's actually slower then the horizon drove of the tau (I think is stated some were that 90% of a trip is in their super ftl travel and the rest is traveled sublight), anda about chaos, super citizens are really indoctrinated, not just that, they have entire ministries focused on controlling what the masses believe and stoping "antidemocratic" ideas is a case of adaptability non the less they are all atheist except for the abstract concept of freedom thy believe in, there's no room for any kind of god even be considered, there's also the fact that they practice eugenics and generically alternate all the citezens upon birth,the eugenics program could probably detect something like a gene stealer cult. My point is, if they some how manage to fuck with the tau and reverse engineer half of their tech, they are all set
@@nosense8744the illuminates are eldar/Tau tho the most annoying thing in the 1st game is their teleporting snipers that 1 shots you even with shields and they are more advanced than the tau
@@nosense8744 iam not talking about immunity, but there believes system and organizations to maintain them are better them the imperium's equivalent, the ministry of truth cold deal with Chao's much better than the inquisition, because super earth believes are in a system not god's or anythinng close to that, making a lot harder for chaos cults to rise, the tau and illuminate situation is to simular to just go "better weapons = win" they would steal the technology to even the playing field.
Super Earth has one of three outcomes... one they get wiped out by some xenos most likely Orks, Nids or Tau depending on where in the galaxy they get plopped down. Two they get consumed by chaos or a CSM warband and no one even knows they were there to start with. Three they either get taken over by the Imperium or wiped out by the Imperium for refusing to comply with the Emperor's rule. Either way they do not have the numbers, weapons or ships to be a faction or group that survives on their own for long and given how they are also xeno hating they chances of them siding with the Tau are very low and the Tau are just as join or die as the Imperium only they start selectively breeding their people for jobs like they did their own castes then kill any who do not fit a role. Yes they do this and the Aetheral cast uses some sort of mind control on the blue fish commies so they go along with it and why they have to pull the greater good lie for not blue fish people then kill any who don't go along with the eugenics program. All in all Super Earth wouldn't even make it to be a foot note in any Imperial or xenos records... Which is sad but because they are a fun lot.
Technology wise I feel like super earth would lose most fights the only way for them to actually survive is if they win a battle and most factions are used to a numbers game
Wow... the possibility of chaos god of liberty and freedom beeing born broke me to the point i spit my food... the guy would be jonh hell diver and his super destroyer would be an entire planet... any thing that can kill a helldiver can kill him but the guy just drops down again ready to roll besides he is jonh bell diver unkillable and waay too good at his craft...
Helldiver Destroyers would not even make it to low orbit before being shot to pieces in space. They're armed exclusively for fire-support and not ship-to-ship combat. Theyre glorified taxis for jumping out of. If you could torpedo yourself from ship-to-ship by angling a destroyer bottom towards enemy, I guess you could effectively then also use the fire-support weapons to pepper an enemy ship in a pinch.
but why would super earth send in super destroyers while the area isnt safe?
Thats cope bro and not even how the Helldivers operate. If fhe airspace wasnt clear they wouldnt be there and they have ships that clear that airspace for them to work which are their Navy ships. Even if they have trouble clearing the airspace the SEAF have the Democracy Space Station which has FTL capabilities can bombard a whole planet and carry a fleet of Eagles. The SDs have A LOT of protection so they can conduct their operations. But strageically if a ship gets thru the SEAF Navy's line would the first objecitve be to hunt down all these FTL jumping SDs or to get a foot hold back on the planet. Also gotta consider that SDs can orbit a planet in a second so catching them is gonna be a hugh waste of time. Im sure a SD wouldnt mind abandoning a team of Helldivers mid mission and just sending a Pelican to pick them up
Should change the name to "Would the Warhammer 40k Universe survive the Helldivers?"
What? No it shouldn’t
Honestly, I really like the idea of managed democracy and I use it in any conflict with communists who think wealth distribution will not be corrupt.
I mean everything happening IN-GAME in HD2 is considered canon, so a single HELLDIVER can act as a one man army DEPENDING on the helldiver. Or be a complete idiot.
Yeah, if the foe allow his space ship to stay in low altitude and offer him ammo supply, bombardments and weaponry. If not, it's just one human with a gun and 5 mag...
Helldivers get turned to mushroom food the moment they see a waaagh
Uhm no
@@teezy1234 “helldivers are weak” magically they are now
@@teezy1234 Yes, a Wagh is billions of Orks, millions of ships (If the Wagh is made by a known warlord)
Thoze helldiva Bois giv us a propa fight
A helldiver would see a single Lasgun and immediately soil his pants. Considering what a lasgun can do (has a pretty large "mag" size, is lightweight, can blow chunks of concrete off cover and has a rediculious range) it be the most OP shit they'd seen.
Super earth would then try to nerf it
Live anti-material rifle reaction:
"Wait, so it hits like an AMR per round, has no projectile drop, minimal recoil, has 120 rounds per magazine, the magazine cap is 12 and it pens Medium armor? I found the new meta!"
honestly, I feel like both the Helldivers, and the space marines wouldn't fight each other because, both sides are really big on democracy. Especially Guilliman. (no way Super Earth is only under control of 282 planets the imperium controls over a million worlds )
Yeah I think they might be able to work out a deal with the imperium for their tech, but if not than imperium would dirt stomp them.
the imperium itself doesnt even know how the tech they have works. they just know how to MAKE it. they cant improve, alter or repair it at all.
the average life expectacy in vietnam was 2 seconds
If what yall saying bout the helldivers is true, then with a lil bit prep and extra (certified real life special forces level) training and extra armour and firearms upgrade with a little more of armoury, isnt it safe to assume theyll make it out alive🧐🧐🧐
They are not cannon fodder. The imperium soldiers are much better trained than you think. Most of them will never see a space marine, as most of them get the job done. The imperium would fall apart if their typical human soldiers were nothing but cannon fodder.
Life Expectancy and Life span are two different things. 2 Minute wartime Life Expectancy is better than anything we have in modern times. If I'm not mistaken during the Vietnam war, there was something like a 2 second life expectancy but obviously something like 80% of all war fighters lived.
To draw this comparison to have a 2 minute life expectancy in war, means that the Hell Divers are at an insane level of elite that is unheard of in modern times. They're very well trained and equipped
I'm honestly wondering how the people of Super Earth would affect the Warp. These guys are fanatical beyond any reasonable doubt, screaming (potentially their last words) "OH SWEET LIBERTY!" when injured. These guys are pretty much told up front by their democracy officers that their life expectancies could be as short as thirty seconds, and they line up in the billions to join.
We could reach, like, ork or eldar levels of warp shenanigans with this. Not to mention the countless ministries that have the sole goal of keeping the population of Super Earth worlds, even in the far reaches of their territory, as patriotic as humanly possible.
These guys would not just survive in WH40k, they will thrive in it.
If you think of things
and the warhammer verse how dangerous that is it's not as bad as what's in warframe. Considering you have all the chaos gods, fleets and armies of billions and fleet and army losses that number in the billions only to not even slow down the different factions. and the only difference is that it's all in one system.
And if you think of it The Helldivers would actually fit well in the Warhammer verse if anything they could be a very powerful force to use for the IMperial guard that's combat abilities could rival the Solar Auxilia. Only instead of guarding the center of the imperium it would be launching it's own crusades against enemies of the IMperium. And with the IMperium they don't care if you go to war with other worlds as long as the tith is payed they will let you do what ever you do.
2:10 Lol. it still sounds better than our current systems.
And one problem with the Helldivers are poorly trained. considering the every hell diver can shoot accurately any weapon that has ever been made by Super Earth they must have had extensive training and training in not just using weapons but also hacking into computers. using coms equipment and several others.
You actually right about that. They are actually trained. They must be seaf officers to be Helldivers and they usually enlist at 7. That is at least maybe a 11 years of training and combat experience. And about the admission, it is true Helldivers are admitted at about 18.7, it talks nothing about the training. The training is actually 9 months long. Far far longer than a USA training at 2 months. In addition, only about 23% of them actually survive the training. So to compare to the rest of the force, they are truly elites and well trained soldiers. Life expectancy is just how long they are guaranteed to live. 2 mins is quite a lot. In Vietnam war, the life expectancy of Americans are usually less than a minute except for a few other roles. Two minutes is already a lot. Also, only 1 in 10 soldiers died in the Vietnam war, so Helldivers must be elites if they can survive longer than soldiers in Vietnam in such hellish war. Space Marines just have much more experience than Helldivers but it does not mean Helldivers are bad. It's just too bad Helldivers have to fight against space Marines that are a century older than a helldiver.
@@theunknown1666 Ya but still considering how the space marines operate and such and their reliance of their physical prowace on most things it can e detrimental a lot. the Helldivers don't have to win every engagement they have to at least be able to reliably kill one or two marines in every engagement for the losses to build up fast. Every marine lost is almost irreplaceable. And while Helldivers are elite they are expendable also. (And they must ahve alot with the losses we have in every battle i wonder what the casualty reports are for the other Super Earth forces in the galactic war.)
@@jasonsaalbach5786Short range is always super marine strong suit against Helldivers. Helldivers just have to get cover and throw strategems at the marine and hope it can hit. Maybe a wide area blast will be helpful. Or just use support weapon. Higher the penetration the better
@@jasonsaalbach5786 for every space marine, there are a million helldivers
At best a helldiver squad would be just a basic storm trooper or scion kill team. And there isn't enough of them to hold their own planets from just two factions let alone the enemies the imperium faces.
Here are some groups from other scifi settings i think could at least survive in 40k or interesting to consider
Star wars
The sith empire from the tor era
The republic from the tor era
The rakata
The celestials
The galactic empire
The new republic
The hutt empire
StarCraft factions
Halo factions
Gundam verse
Well...yes...but actually kinda no maybe?!?...but survive is more the right term! The helldivers are just jacked up guardsmen with better mechanicus artillery!
I would put Helldivers on the same level as Tempestus Scions or Imperial stormtroopers, ya know some of the best regular human soldiers the imperium has, if you count their orbitals, then they scale higher.
To be honest i think they would join the imperium...maybe fight for abit like the usual but eventually join but on their own terms, would also be cool to see another human faction besides the imperium too tho
9:32 not true most guardsmen are extremely competent the guardsmen that you're thinking of are white shields who, if they are lucky, get a week of training there on pare with helldivers including valkerys leman russes helldivers are just a imperial guard regiment
What about Helldivers vs SCP foundation at full potential next? Would the helldivers even be able to develop counter measures against the anomalies that the SCP studies? Would be fascinating to see!!! 🎉 💯
Takes more than bullets and bombs to contain the lunacy behind foundation corridors. They'd probably screw something up and ruin the planet within the month like let a cognitohazard spread or not keep up with the deers ritual
Yeah well, SCP is pretty much modern and Helldivers aren't so far from that, the fight will take time but once 500kg there and that and the Helldivers will win a hard diff fight, this if they dont release any scp in the act.
@@nosense8744 sounds like a solid point but man would also be awesome to see a crossover of SCP foundation and Helldivers trying to survive When the Day Breaks scenario together
I like the idea of Super Earth being fanatical about Democracy that it recreates the Slaanesh incident and creates a new Chaos God of Democracy, except he would be campaigning on bringing order to the Warp and any planet he deems valuable
I was thinking the same thing. Unfortunately there is yet to be a full fanfic crossover with the two.
Yeah Super Earth is getting no differ especially when their gear gets nerfed down for being reliable.
The democracy officer on the bridge isxthexreal captain i think. Also not every diver gets theirvown ship.... they are TOLD its their ship after they are dethawed from a tube...oh the diver died dethaw the next one!
SE best xhsnce for survival is joining the imperiumand just paying the imperial tiethe.. likly in the form of helldiver regiments.
My answer to all this ppl: “The emperor protects”
Helldivers are not Poorly Trained.
63-19. Nuff said. XD
I do love my Managed democracy but I don't think so.