How to properly reflow
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 14 ก.ค. 2022
- Need us to fix your board? Send it in!
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Need us to fix your board? Send it in!
nickselectronics.com/products/756txfcb0tk0010
info@nickselectronicrepair.com
520-838-9359
Contact form on our website:
nickselectronics.com/pages/contact
I'm sending my M75-C1 mainboard tomorrow. Great video. I removed the thermal pads then decided it was best I just send it to you so I don't ruin it.
Thanks brother for your videos. Despite the lack of comments, the TV repair community appreciates you and your team.
Hey thank you so much for the comment and saying that.
Means a lot.
Also I saw you made the news and Barry was talking very highly of you. That's awesome!
I received my repaired board from Nick's yesterday. Board looks great and it quickly installed. TV works great again. I am very impressed with the whole process. Nick's keeps you up to date about all the steps of the repair process by email. When they receive the board, when they analyze the issue, when they repair it and when they re-test the board and ship it back to you. It was professionally packaged. This is SERVICE. I hope the board will keep working, time will tell. I am in no way related to their business, just figured I had to give them a shout out as to how well I liked the process.
Thank you so much for the feedback!
I am happy we were able to help you with the repair of your Vizio Mainboard and appreciate your business.
You are covered with our 1 Year warranty, so if you ever have any issues (almost never happens) you can always reach out and we will be ready to assist.
By far my fav channel now. You fix anything. I work on...whatever I can fix and pad my pocket with green.
Thank you
Kudos to Nick's TV Repair service. My Vizio M75-C1 has been working flawlessly since the solder reflow of the chip on the mainboard over six months ago. The screen had gone completely black. I highly commend his business for its technical capability, outstanding customer service, inexpensive repair cost, and for helping our environment. Not only did he save me considerable money by not having to buy a new TV, but the non-e-waste parts of my old set would have likely gone into our overflowing landfills.
Thank you for leaving this feedback. I appreciate it!
Hi Nick, perfect working, perfect video, many thanks...
Glad it helped
Thank you Nick!
My pleasure!
Enjoyed this video...great explanation of the process. Curious what tool you are using to remove those soldered mounting pins on the heat sink at the 1 min mark?
That is a Hakko Desoldering tool FR-301 I think it is.
Here is a link to it if you want to buy it.
www.amazon.com/Hakko-FR-301-Desoldering-Tool/dp/B07BKSLLG9
Love this video! In fact I'm new to reflowing. I have a Vizio D55U-D1 that appears to have a bad main board. What I'm missing here is your test process. Do you test all incoming boards before and after you repair? Do you have the capability to test every board you work on in an actual working environment? Thanks!
Hello Mark,
We are a professional business with what I would argue are some of the highest quality standards in the industry. So to answer your question, yes we live test every board before and after repairs. If we can't find a fault with the mainboard we reach out to the customer and discuss further. If we find a fault that is outside the typical repair we also discuss further.
It is imperative to test prior and post repair. While our videos cover the most common faults, it doesn't mean those are the only faults that happen with these boards, and a proper diagnostic is thus necessary before every repair.
It is also just as important to test after even if a reflow is the required repair, a reflow doesn't always fix the board. Sometimes a re-ball is needed or a replacement chip. If we were not testing boards after repairs, our quality would be much lower than what is acceptable.
We offer a 1 Year warranty on all of our mail-in repair services currently with the option for 2 and 3-year warranty extensions. We would not be able to do this in a profitable manner if we did not have high-quality standards.
Thanks for the great video. Can you characterize the reflow path and temperature(s) you use for a typical reflow? Preheat at? Then something like 180C for 5min then a couple min at 210C?
James,
I am sorry but you won't like my answer. I don't think that providing you that information would make sense. There are too many variables at play here. You do not use the same equipment we do, the profiles we use most likely won't work for you and your set up. Each board is different, each chip is different, we use different profiles for different boards and chips.
I recommend you tinker with your own set up and find your own settings that work for you and your equipment. I always recommend you practice on defective boards and low cost circuit boards that are easily replaceable first while doing your tinkering. Once you figure out a good profile, then go ahead and try it out on the more expensive boards that need repair.
I know it's not the answer you are looking for, but while doing this, you will learn a lot and it will be much more beneficial for you in the long term.
When we first started 6-7 years ago, I purchased 3 identical ACHI rework machines. Granted they are low end machines under 1k but all three ran differently. More expensive machines don't have as much tolerance, but its just as an example.
We had to run very different profiles on the three macines in order to get the same results from each of them.
This is why I don't think sharing profiles makes sense most of the time.
Great videos. Are any of the failed components that get replaced damaged from some part upstream? How do you diagnose that?
Not on this type of mainboard.
Typically that doesn't happen with mainboards unless you have a lightning strike of some sorts and even then the damage is typically localized. We do sometimes see that with power supply boards however. On those you just have to be more thorough when doing short checks.
Hey great video! What model of BGA rework station are you using?
We are using the Seamark ZM-R5860C from Zhuomao, but you could get the ZM-R5830 and have similar results for almost half the price.
Hi Nick, could you commend on thermal pads for the Vizio board? What brand did you use? Looks like old ones were glued , do new ones come with adhesive? Thanks
The old ones were held on with double sided ahesive tape same as the new ones. When you put lots of thermal cycles on the adhesive tape it changes it a bit and makes it look/feel like it's glued but it's the same thing just one is new tape the other is old tape with lots of heat stress. Just like when you have a brand new sticker, it's a lot easier to remove a brand new sticker that's just been freshly put on VS one that has been placed on a surface 5 years ago.
I don't have a brand I recommend, my brand I use sells minimum quantities of 1,000 at a time, I would recommend them but I don't think that you are looking for that kind of volume.
I bake them in the oven at about 215 degrees for 15 minutes. Works every time.
The oven is risky, high chance of things going wrong. and more importantly, how long does the board work for post repair? That's the important question!
I can heat up a board with a hair dryer for a few minutes, not even melt the solder balls and still get the board to work for a few hours maybe even a few days post repair because that would cause enough thermal expansion to force contact between the solder balls and the board. The problem is that it's not a repair, it's going to allow the set to work for a small amount of time longer but not a long-term repair.
That's the point of the video, if you want it done right, you can't skip steps, you have to do it right, and you will want to use proper soldering equipment.
@@NicksTVRepair what reflow/bga workstation do you use?
reflowing does not solve any problems as flux the most guys is using is not working well on high temp soldering alloys,reballing is the only long therm solution
@@tommajor1013 Is it difficult to re-ball?
I checked out your website, do you only reflow Vizio boards? I have an LG board that needs a reflow for a no signal HDMI issue.
We reflow, reball and replace. It depends on what level of service is needed or requested. We work with Vizio, LG, Samsung, Sony, Panasonic, Toshiba, and Sharp as the bulk of our repairs, but we do work with all brands and manufacturers.
Most people aren't willing to pay for the reball or replacement so a reflow is what we end up doing most of the time.
If you have specific questions about a repair, I would recommend having you send us an email. You can find our contact info in the video description.
Anxious to resurrect a TV a neighbor tossed out - a Vizio M65-C1 in great shape, except there's no video. I think someone else had attempted a self repair as the board had tons of flux all over it. All voltages check out. Fuse is good. Ethernet and Optical ports have lights. Ready for a better attempt.
Could you link-to or describe what I should buy to replace the pink pads? And the black "new adhesive" on the heat sink. I can't seem to find that as a double sided adhesive pad. Did you just apply new dbl sided heat tape to the existing pads? What is it I need?
Thanks!! (Subscribed and Liked)
Sorry I don't know where you can buy those. We get them in bulk from a supplier in China, I would not be able to recomend anyon else since I don't use anyone else, but you have to typically buy 1,024 pads minimum order so it wouldn't be worth it for you.
I also wouldn't worry about that until after you got the mainboard fixed first which ill be honest, when ever someone has a failed repair attempt on these it means they actually damaged the board beyond repair. Odds are high you will have to get a replacement module.
We also have boards for sale if you are interested.
nickselectronics.com/products/756txfcb0qk0090?variant=44388365304084
@@NicksTVRepair Got it up and running for about 2 hours now! It was free so I can't complain if it craps out in the near future. Thanks for your videos.
Lead free solder melts at 650°- 700°F (343°- 371°C), vs leaded solder at 375 F, but also I understand its not only how much heat but how fast and evenly you heat it. Was eyeing some new machines, 4 grand, but the have infrared heat top and bottom, with visual alignment. How much bottom heat do you use, I assume its much less. Do those machines come with pre programmed profiles?
I sent a pretty lengthy response to the other comment you left.
One of the things I would say is someone that has experience can more or less reliably reflow a board using a george foreman hot plate/grill and hot air.
Buying the $4,000 machine won't give you the best results if you don't know how to properly use the machine.
What I recommend to everyone is #1 DO NOT practice reflows on the boards you are actually trying to fix. You will break your boards and it will be a very expensive mistake every time. Go find cracked screens that have mainboards with a low value in them like for example all the TCL, Hisense, other similar cheap brands that always have bad LEDS and thus by default low-value mainboards. Go practice reflowing those boards, keep the cracked screen so you can test the board post reflow to see if it still works.
#2 Practice on more than 1 board. Every board is different and needs different settings. The reflow requirements for one board is different than for another.
Learn your equipment, how it works, your equipment is different than mine and thus I can't teach you how to use it. You have to self teach on this one through trial and error.
what is reflow and why is it necessary, what does it actually do
The common fault is cracked solder joints between the PCB and the processor chips. The chips sit on a ball grid array which connects the chip to the PCB. When the board gets hot from being used, the chip expands at a different rate than the PCB. This difference in expansion rates stressed the balls and over time caused micro cracks in the solder. The reflow will melt the solder and reform the bond.
So out of the failures on boards, seem it mostly the chips or the solder joints on those chip. How often do you see other thing go bad around the board?
Yes often the chip either shorts out/becomes defective and needs to be replaced or has cracked joints. That's the bulk of the repairs we perform so that's what we are showing on our channel, but not all boards fail like this. We see HDMI processor chips go out, software chips go out such as EEPROM, NAND, EMMC, and ATMEL.
We see voltage regulators, Buck converters, and a few odd ball shorted caps. This is all for mainboard type modules though, power supplies are usually different.
@@NicksTVRepair Do main board failures usually cause screen or image distortion, or do they just stop working? I had a dirty LVDS cable once but the image was more like solarized, no lines and such. Where do you usually buy these chips? You are the only one that has answered my questions, I really appreciate it. Power supplies don't seem so intimidating to me, because I understand how they work, when I went to tech school in 2000 digital wasn't as big as it is now.
I have a lg 65 inch tv im thinking this needs done do you still do this service and whats something like this typically cost im wanting to save this tv if possible previous owner said it used to work just fine then one day he turned it on and was watching a game and the tv just went black no power
Hello,
Our contact info is in the video description, I highly recommend you reach out to us directly, and fill out the repair request form on our website. Provide us the info on your TV and symptoms, and we will let you know if we can help you fix it, and if so which board to send in for repair.
How much would it cost to have this done if I sent you the CPU board. Vizio D55u-D1. I was using it when it went bad, the screen went to pink snow/static then went black. still has sound
Right now we are doing that repair for $89.95 as a flat rate service, but unlike the other repair companies, we rework both the chips, and we also provide a 1 Year warranty on our work.
You can check out our listing linked below for more info
www.nickstvs.com/store/p2459/D55U-D1.html
Your reflow process is sound, however there didn't appear to be any ESD protection used.
Beyond making sure you aren't charged before working on a board these boards are not very sensitive to static, they are also coated and insulated already against static. Killing one of these boards from static is very difficult. There are a lot of factors in your environment that can cause more or fewer static discharges. The environment we work in is not conducive to creating static discharges.
What are the melting tempratures?
425F or 218C for none leaded
But you have to go higher than that to get a good flow on the board. Depends on the volume of air you have, distance, the environment, and many other factors. There is no one size fits all.
What is Mon_l and Mon_R on sony?
Sorry I don't understand the question
@@NicksTVRepair DIsregard, that TV is history, that was some acronyms on the Tconn, never heard of them.
I just got another 4K vizio today I have two of them now, M43-C1 and M50-C1. I'm afraid to try a reflow with my little YIHUA 853AAA BGA Rework Soldering Station. I don't know the profile good enough. I'm watching videos to learn and landed here again. I like the idea you added new thermal pads, that fixes the original issue, a cooling issue. I have a night owl security cam, within a yr the HDD went out, it was always hot, I added a cooling fan to the heat sink and exhaust fan to enclosure, soon adding an SSD. I don't think they want these things to last. The old saying, if you can't hold your finger or hand on it, its too hot!!
Vernon,
I have had lots of people in the past ask me how to reflow and what temps I use and what not. The answer is unfortunately not what people want to hear. The answer is it depends. We have 5 different types of rework machines from 3 different manufacturers. All use different heats and profiles that are unique to each machine.
For example, one of the machines has thermal sensors that you have to position on the board yourself. Depending on the exact location of the prob, the temps it registers will be different and thus the machine might put out more or less heat. If you want the solder to get to melting temps and you have your thermal prob on the edge of the board then you have to probably go to about 215C for non leaded solder. Now on another machine in order to remove human error the thermal probes are located inside the heating elements. (this one is convection) So it measures the temp of the air coming out. However the air had to travel a few inches through the nozel befor hitting the board. This means it cools down a bit and you aren't measuring the temp of the board, but the temp of the air hitting the board.
That machine we have to usually go as high as 245C in order to get to melting temps because 245C means the board will hit about 215c.
When we first started we had 3 Achi machines. Identical models. All of them had their own unique tweaks and profiles because even though they were all the same machines, there was 5% tolerance on the temps and so each machine had it's own profiles very unique to it and only it. One of them we didn't have to go above 210, one we had to go to 235. Using the 210 as the temp mark on the machine that needed to go to 235 meant no flow and no repair. Vice versa meant you were going to burn the board.
I have one advantage of ordinary TV tech trainees I have the background/degree so all this technology isn't total greek.
I came in with an accounting background. Took me a lot of trial and error before I figured out some of this stuff. Also had the help of some of my guys. Couldn't have done it alone that's for sure.