I think Scott nailed the issues. Football and Basketball have had a decade+ to tier out and define the market for RPAs and what product(s) have the market leading types. Baseball has RPAs in nearly every product that isn’t Ginter or Big League, whereas Panini has been selective about what products get an RPA and their quality levels by brand. The ceiling on a Dynasty RPA is capped when you can get a filthy RPA of a top rookie from a slew of other brands for a more consumer friendly value. I think Inception in particular hurts it as those RPAs are very cheap with nice patches (likely due to the sticker). Funny enough, the reason Bowman 1st and Panini RPAs are the kings are the exact same reason: there is a relatively hard cap on the number of a truly desirable card type that is seen as collectors by THE card for a guy. If Panini put RPAs in Score numbered to /1000 in five different variants or Jackson Holliday had Bowman 1st autos in Paper, Chrome, Draft, Inception, Heritage, Pro Debut, and they put out Bowman Definitive, Bowman Chrome Black, Bowman Dynasty, Bowman Transcendent, etc. we’d see declines there as collectors might decide something else is the grail if you will. Great debate guys.
I found TPott’s argument to be compelling. He’s just contending that one slice of the card market will outperform another during the time frame he specified because of a price dislocation. There doesn’t need to be any kind of tectonic shift in the baseball card landscape for his position to play out. Good discussion by all, thanks for the episode!
Great session guys. I’m only a few minutes in so hopefully this thought survives the video! My take here is that like Phil said, baseball collectors don’t really love RPA’s…totally agree. I would just add some exceptions: they do seem to like certain relics (understanding this isn’t rookie stuff) like pieces of field seats from places such as Ebbets field or bat relics from the superstars…it seems these kind of relics play well so perhaps something other than patches/jerseys etc could play better as a Rookie Relic Auto (RRA’s)…might be something for Topps to explore for future rookie auto versions with stuff in the cards? Thx again for a great session, gentlemen
Personally, my favorite card I own is a 2020 Topps Dynasty Yordan Alvarez Logoman RPA. I have a fairly significant collection of his prospect and rookie cards, but at the end of the day each card is just another parallel of the last. The uniqueness of game used material is what separates Dynasty, and sets like it from traditional collections. While I understand most patches aren't nearly as special as a 1/1, all of them bring you closer to the game and the player you're collecting.
Some great points. I think the biggest issue is the expense of the set itself of dynasty. There’s no base auto so I can’t even get in on the ground floor for certain players.
I am a true time machine. Left the hobby over 30 years ago and just got back in. My observations: I understand demand/scarcity driving these prices but to me an auto for a young player who will potentially be signing for decades is worth very little. A swatch of a uniform is a crumb of something cool if it was left as a whole. 90% of these rookies are the next Kevin Maas. It all adds up to me that for the same money you could have something truly special and rare of a proven great player like The Mick, Koufax, or Gibson. I get the excitement over potential but even if it pans out someday their cards will have the same excitement of an older star and you simply paid the price for that up front.
Chris here - I’ve given up trying to understand the prospecting aspect of the hobby. If Wyatt Langford and freddie freeman are selling for the same price, I know which one I’m buying. Thanks for watching and commenting! 🍻
I’m a bowman guy. I bought a Julio Blue bowman auto but I’m not gonna lie, I was kicking myself when that 1/1 Nike swoosh dynasty went for less than $5k.
Chris here - the baseball card market isn’t just different. The rookie cards aren’t the first cards in baseball. Some of the dynasty 1/1’s are truly incredible.
Great episode! I love this discussion. You guys were all spitting knowledge and I'm so embarrassed because I should know as much as you guys but that's why I watch 🙂. In regards to the discussion. You did a great job because I see both points. The issue for me is after the present year and beyond . There's just so many of the same card but with a different picture in the same sets. And there are so many sets. We are going to have a left profile versus a right profile, picture etc. That's what scares me about the future of the hobby. So much more I can say but I just will leave it here. Thank you guys so much! Was a great episode. So many details. A huge fan. Keep it up. I appreciate it and as im sure many of us do. Thank you. Keep SpitBallin!
My only argument is that tpot is only looking at singles. A $1200 hobby box of 1 card is absurd regardless of how high end the patches and autos are. I just don’t see a product that only gets opened by the top 1% of the hobby as being some staple of the hobby
This is a valid point -- while the singles may gain some steam, it's really hard to see the masses opening a product that costs over one $1k for just a handful of cards. Thanks for watching!
Great point. Chris here - I’m certainly not buying any of those boxes. Price is insane. What percentage of boxes will get their money back?? Maybe 5%? Thanks for watching and commenting!
If they didnt add wemby these boxes would be 850 look at last year's going for less when they released also dont forget 2020 dynasty was 374.99 when it released now these boxes are just streamlined to breakers on fanatic live and Blez. I remember my wife fussing because I spent 600 on a 2018 dynasty Soto back in the day.
@@rickyboyd5315 Great point. the thing is, topps is a money making machine. They don’t cater to old school “true” collectors bc they aren’t buying wax etc. While some true collectors have small circles, their opinion im sure gets heard but doesn’t flinch topps plans. Because after all, they aren’t buying wax. They aren’t spending thousands on opening it either. They want what they want - they buy singles - black parallels, golds, SSP, 1st autos. They aren’t ripping it either, maybe an occasional fun rip . But I can understand the fact that fanatics just wants to make money and that’s it. The collector base will never end, they will adjust accordingly though, some will leave forever, or come back years later.. Imo dynasty is overrated. I can find great on-card game used RPAs in other cheaper sets.
the problem with RPA’s is they are so damn thick. Most collectors get frustrated with cards that are as thick as a book. Also nobody is going to want 9 variations of the same player and most collectors only want 1 nice RPA in there collection.
I would make a strong case that most RPAs aren't even actual rookie cards. Historically and traditionally these are insert cards and a rookie year designation is more appropriate.
Chris here - yeah topps pulled a fast one on us, right? Really, no current rookie cards are rookie cards. But hey, that’s a separate video! Thanks for watching!
Bowman 1st autos will predate Topps Dynasty RPA’s by several years and will hold special significance because of it. In NFL and NBA, the RPA’s are almost always in their first professional year.
This guy gets it. All the lse influencers are pushing this based on hope. Bowman throws a monkey wrench into this whole idea. There is no reason why all of a sudden the baseball community will want a card from a couple years later. People have always wanted the first in all things collectibles. TPot is a moron
This is a tough one, i think T POT maybe correct about the spread tightening for the years he mentioned. Scott is also right about the many RPA variants that exist. Also bowman auto is more rare and limited. Full Disclosure: I've bought rarer RPAs (Dynasty and Inception)for baseball for the past 2 years because of what TPot said but im mostly a collector first.
Chris here - I can’t argue that a first bowman chrome auto looks better than a dynasty RPA. It doesn’t. But it came first! And also, there just too many RPA options. So many sets. But just one with the first bowman chrome auto.
Good stuff guys. I don't know, pretty much agree with everything Scott and Phil said. This convo gives me flashbacks to 2020-2021 when YT folk were saying select stuff was going to outpace prizm in basketball. And there was a bump...and then things went back to 'equilibrium'. With all the dilution, in baseball I'm sticking to bowman chrome autos, and within that group, just the classic red/orange/gold/blue. That's it. Short term will TPott's thesis hold true for a % change? Perhaps. Long term? Doubtful.
It's a collectors vs investors/flipper thing. It's the long-term guys who were here before the boom vs the blind herd that came in during and after the boom seeing only dollar signs.
Yeah I feel like most dynasty patches aren’t game used, so I’m not sure if I’m missing something or what.. I felt like I kept hearing you guys says they were game used.
It’s a little contradictory. Front of the card says “Game Used Memorabilia”. Back of the card says the relic is not from a “Specific Game, Event, or Season”. So you can’t match it to a game but it’s legitimate.
But the point remains that in my opinion there would be a bigger market for these if they WERE from a specific game -- think a player's 50th Home Run Game, or a player's 2,000th hit game.
@@Blabbin_Bout_Slabbin for sure. I doubt that happens, but would be great. Idk I have to say I’m more interested now that I know these are game used. I always just read the back 😂
Interesting thoughts Ty with data to back it up. The one minor thing I'll bring up is grading, especially with PSA. I'm always hesitant to send in thicker cards and I don't like BGS. A Chrome card or a flagship parallel is usually a safer bet to get a 10. I don't usually buy RPAs so I can't comment too well on condition of Dynasty. Although I have owned various Panini and Topps RPAs from 2019, and zero looked like good grading candidates. Regardless thanks for the quality knowledge drop.
As a person who has been collecting slowly for on and off 47 years and what helped me get interested again for this last time over 7 /8 years again RPA’s are part of what got me back in the hobby/collecting 1/1’s and 1-10, Nice card , nice multicolor patch , usually an early really detailed auto , I do agree the industry finds a way to F things up by over flooding cards or styles , but as for me they are way undervalued, Very Respectfully Navy J
Chris here - some RPA do look incredible. The 1/1’s can be especially great. But there are just too many products. I wish topps would pull back production and just make maybe 2 sets with RPA. As of now, it’s too watered down. Thanks for watching and commenting!
Yeah what Ty said. Take one look at Dynasty and it's easy to imagine a world where they rank with bca 1st and then surpass. Being able to distinguish the "true" RPA is important. Panini has given up a little bit but not entirely but there was a time where the "true" RPA was distinguishable. If Topps can do this it will long term be a competitor to bca1st.
Chris here - I just don’t see it. So many sets have RPA’a in baseball. But only one set has a players first bowman chrome auto - and those autos come FIRST. You could make the argument that rookie cards in baseball aren’t even rookie cards anymore. But that’s for another video! However, the MLB debut patch autos are spectacular. The only card that can challenge the first bowman chrome auto super.
People who open Football and Basketball are now asking me if I have sealed Hockey because of Connor Bedard. I think it will take a player with that star appeal and hype to move people from other sports to baseball and than maybe RPA could become more popular.
Generally speaking how you feel about this dynasty topic is going to come down to what you collect. People like Tpot and myself that collect all major sports think the dynasty rookie card discount is comparably absurd. Baseball only or mostly baseball collectors tend to be slow to change and slave to tradition. Don’t own any but Dynasty should be king of the baseball rc. Bowman will always be king of the 1st or prospect card. Bowman will always be 1st by a few years at least so comparing dynasty to it is like 🍎 to 💣
Chris here - we’ve talked about the MLB Debut patch autos before. Easily a players single best rookie card. Great idea from topps. I just hope they continue it. Consistency will be key with those. We need to have them every year. Langford, Carter, Choirio, Holliday, debLa Cruz, Dominguez - iodate chrome could be LOADED with debit patch autos this year!!
@@SpitballinCards Missed that convo, but I totally agree! They showed JH Lee wearing the uniform with the patch on the Giants telecast. It gives the card so much desirability.
I think with fanatics and their licenses for product and the highest distributor of game quality jerseys, etc. and Phil mentioned the rpas in F1, one thing that is consistent with that and something that is creeping into the actual memorabilia in the jerseys, etc is the higher prevalence of actual patches. Sure the fans don’t really like it for baseball, but for every other sport patches, whether sponsorships or rookie debut or anything else the ownership wants to add, Fanatics will be the suppliers to the public of these items. The more authentic and opportunity to add scarcity/uniqueness to the clothing items, etc. the higher value that item has in the future, the more opportunity to make more money on these as rpas in the future. It’s checkmate for fanatics either way. Just my 2 cents to this convo 😂 not sure this makes sense or not. Thanks guys good stuff.
I’m with Teapot one the RPA potentially getting more live in baseball. A lot of people don’t dive so deep into the number of cards from every Topps set, they’re just happy to be able to get something different and usually has that eye appeal from the patch and auto. Yes the more they make the less valuable they will be, but if you’re paying $200+ for a box, there is an expectation or at least a strong desire to pull something that looks fantastic.
Chris here - dynasty is always one of the best looking products but imagine spending $1k on a “box” and your card is Oswald Peraza. Or Christopher Morel. Or Bret Baty. I’d be done.
You can tell Topps is trying to push growth in the RPA area already. If in not mistaken I believe they are available for the first time in Transcendent this year. Be interesting to see the price on some of these when they hit the market.
I think the biggest problem and you briefly mentioned it, is that players really just don't have "iconic" cards anymore cuz you're just so many of them. When you say Griffey rookie everyone knows what you're talking about. When you say trout rookie everyone knows what you're talking about. You say Yordan rookie, there's no specific image that comes to mind.
Chris here - that’s an interesting perspective. Players today absolutely have too many cards. Too many rookies in particular. But only ONE first bowman chrome auto. Nothing as iconic as the 89 upper deck Griffey though. Yet…
The RPA's sound cool ...my biggest beef with the BOWMAN 1ST is the horrible images ...Bobby witt jr. Looks like he's 40. And Juan Soto looks like he's 12...also Alot of great prospects change teams by the time they reach the Pro's ...so the uniform change sucks....its the reason prospects and rookie logo cards will always co-exist.
I’m with Ty. I love the game used on card patch autos. If I’m going to put something on my wall to display, that is way cooler and better looking than a Bowman 1st auto to me
Ty hit the nail on the head with his Dynasty thoughts. And Phil talking about the panini sales during the boom is a prime example of what could happen when collectors from other sports cross over.
I do think there will be growth in that area, especially with the younger collectors. I think the Patch over the Picture is what will determine the Popularity. I do wish Topps would keep RPA's only in a couple of the sets. I do think that the number of sets hurts the RPA market and would like if Topps would drop a couple more sets like Tier One and Tribute.
I like the play ...getting in front of a trend.... nice thinkin' T-Pottster....MLB has traditional collectors so I stick with 4-5 of the same options every year...I am also an older collector just past 50... the options are just so endless I cant chase everything. I am not an RPA patch baseball collector like Dr. Phil mentioned. His point is dead on from my point of view. Nor can I ever see myself buying one. But the younger generation may well ~so follow your thesis T-Pott.....stay true to your angle. It certainly wouldnt be a shocker IMO. I enjoyed your time and thoughts. Jeff ~ your reminder about what the definition of an RPA is was a crucial aspect to this ensemble...impeccable timing~ even for a Brewers fan.
Great video. I agree with Scott. There is too much confusion in baseball RPA. I also think Geoff and his team are encouraged to market Topps high end products as "good" and potential replacements to NT and Flawless in baseball. I have heard Geoff say this over and over. I think Geoff and many of his camp don't have the experience that Phil and Scott point it out. I think Fanatics COULD make an elite RPA product, but they need to look at adding to the experience. How about pull an RPA in baseball that gets you an invite to a Transcendent like party with players SIGNING your RPA live.
As for the Crome’s any kind some number up to 899 so The early baseball RPA’s are more rate but theres enough to spark interest and they are way undervalued for sure , i think the Crome s are watered down and lots cards are plain boring as for prospects cards again its early auto’s it makes a big difference or refractors , , excellent round table fellas
I think topps dynasty is a bit too bougie for most baseball card collectors. They look nice but i can think of 100 other baseball cards i’d rather buy for the money at any point in time. Landscape cards also deduct a few points in my book.
Chris here - you’re a vertical only collector? I love a good horizontal. But at $1k+ per box I think topps is out of touch with reality. Absurd price. Whose buying this to rip??
I have a handful of horitzonals but i never cared for them in slabs. If i buy one, i prefer raw. If folks have the money to buy $1k boxes, don’t let me stop you but you won’t catch me buying them.
i really like how T-Pott really does a good job of not saying something negative to say something positive. because i like topps reverence doesnt mean Dynasty is bad, dynasty is amazing i just prefer reverence
Chris here - I get it, but I just can’t get on board. Bowman chrome autos come first and tis just one set. Too many RPA products out there for me. Thanks for watching!
@SpitballinCards i totally get your perspective. because i focus on one player the multiple RPAs are cool for me. if i was collecting a larger variety of players i would be with you all the way
High end products get lost in the Topps Baseball flood. Comparing 2021 releases: (sources TCDB and baseballcardpedia) 2021 Football Panini brand - 32 Donruss ‘brand’ - 4 Others in the Panini family - 2 (Score & Zenith) 2020-21 Basketball Panini brand - 25 Donruss ‘brand’ - 3 Hoops ‘brand’ - 2 2021 Baseball Topps Brands - around 60 Bowman Brands - around 12 Finest Brand - 2 Stadium Club - 2 Panini’s stuff - around 15 This feeds back to Scotty and the Yordan’s. There’s so many products that you can have RPAs as the highest cards in low-end products, good pulls in medium-end products and then whatever’s in high-end products. I think Dynasty’s not even the only ‘1 card per high-end box’ in baseball ! (Luminaries) And then the oddity of whether the market thinks a $500 ‘one-card box’ or a $2000+ ‘5-8 card box’ is the highest end product.
And as Philmington mentioned, Dynasty coming out in December is bang on the money. It’s way past the end-of-season, but it’s not the first of the next season so it’s in a marketing no man’s land. You’ve exhausted collectors with a set-per-week and NOW you want to know if they want some Dynasty for Xmas ?!?
i personally consider topps reverence as the best RPA. Admittedly, the patch is not as good, but there is one out of 10 image and one out of 5 image and thats it. and its not a product that you can buy sealed. you have to find them in another product.
Chris here - I like those cards too. Out of flagship so a little extra special. I’m also a fan of the bowman chrome relic autos. Usually a pretty small checklist as well. And it’s rookies and stars. Not prospects.
Great discussion,,I have my 2 cents & a question,,1st off I think baseball hobbyist have trouble with higher end is bc baseball is the 1 sport that your roi is better especially retail vs panini retail I think the panini guys are used to spending higher dollars chasing & conveting RPAs than your average Topps spender. Okay and for my question I would love to hear your guys input on how Topps even on dynasty cards say game used memorabilia on the front of card,,but on the back it's says not from any specific game or event, which if you see that on a panini card your first thought is it's just another of the rack jersey,,,is Topps just saying it's game used but not from any specific game or event.
Yes that is correct. It is game used but not from any specified game. As opposed to relics like tribute with a sticker which ties it to a specific game.
Chris here - another issue with RPA in baseball is that rookie cards aren’t the first cards anymore. Unlike other football and basketball. Topps pulled a fast one on us.
My thought is, baseball is an old American pastime. Many collectors of baseball cards dislike change in the same way they dislike the pitch clock and new rules. F1 is an expensive sport, 1k a ticket plus, high end cities, etc. expensive is apart of it. Baseball is a cheap game historically. 1950s a ticket was $1.50. Those people are still living. You think they want to pay $1000 for a baseball card when they grew up on $2 dollar tickets. But what happens when the old gatekeepers pass away? The old “original” bowman colors won’t be remembered by these kids. When these kids get older, and they’ve lived off $8 dollar coffee and $200 dollar game tickets, they might want the game worn auto card for $1000. Dynasty is like panini one and one, people love it. I think Ty is right. It may not overtake bowman autos but the gap will likely get closer and closer .
@@SpitballinCards love all your takes, it’ll be interesting to see it play out but I lean towards Ty in that the gap will close some. I think younger people will like patch autos as they get more money. But by far my favorite podcast, baseball and cards! Just need it on Apple Podcasts haha
Love seeing Ty trying to shoot lasers from his eyes at Scott. 😛 Both of you raise valid points. I think Ty is right that the delta between high end RPAs and traditional prospect and rookie cards will likely shrink. I agree with Scott that it likely won’t be a monumental rise and that current RPAs are watered down by the sheer number/variety of them and the number of sets. Phil is correct that it might not be Dynasty that becomes the “go to” RPA product. Topps needs to do a better job of not spreading these RPAs around so many products. They don’t become meaningless, but they haven’t become meaningful.
Chris here - there’s just too many sets with too many similar cards produced. Plus in other sports, the RPA’s are the first cards. That’s not the case in baseball.
Topps used to only put the RC logo on base cards, now they put it on everything. I think if you want a clear winner in dynasty you have a base set and everything else is an insert. The base set gets a RC logo, the 8 other images are not true rookies and don’t get a logo. But Topps would have to cool it with the RC logo button for it to happen.
Chris here - Topps is NEVER going to cool it with the rookie logos. They already changed what a rookie card is to sell us more of them. Thanks for watching!
Baseball fans dont care about rpas. I think the future is stadium club rookie sps . Limited to 200 and hard to gem. Plus i think stadium club football and basketball will be super popular.
Phil - why do baseball card collectors not like things on their cards? Is this is simple answer or a topic for a whole show? I could understand vintage collectors like it because of the simplicity of cards of their favorite player, but you would think things would be different with modern collectors. I hope watchers of this show see and appreciate the different prospective you each bring with raw stats, trends using technology, experience selling sealed wax, and overall knowledge of the sports and cards.
RPA designation come from Basketball OG’s, most of them have migrated to baseball and are trying to hype it up, but baseball traditionalists won’t go for this, Bowman is king like it or not, and that trend will remain for the future. Also those “RPA’s have conflicting language , in front says game used, in the back says not affiliated with any specific season, year or event, so are this patches from celebrities games or just worn in a photo shoot and used with this confusing and fraudulent language!? Bowman pre dates this product issues and true OG’s on baseball collecting won’t budge for any “RPA’s with scammy disclaimers!
Chris here - agreed! Bowman comes first. I will say that when patch autos are tied to specific games - like the mlb debut latch autos - those are bad ass cards
Boys, I dont mean to point out the pink elaphant in the room but I think Bowman could struggle because it's maybe strange for some grown men to be that interested in boys under 18. Why don't people understand that? Or do they?
No I'm not joking, I think it's a hard sell to those coming over from other sports where the prospects are adult University grads with accomplishments not highschool boys getting millions of dollars for reasons unknown. It's for the all the same reasons that men don't often teach younger grades. @@SpitballinCards
Chris here - great idea. They have to take from the jersey on draft day/signing day. Add a patch to that jersey. Then cut it out and put it on a card! Easy!
@Philmington I gave this episode a second go and made it past the repetitive info at the front end (Since I already listened to T-Pot's video earlier). Glad I did. I set up at shows in Denver, and baseball is just a different market. I'm a huge baseball fan but I need to buy and sell in football in order to move the amount of cards I want to transact every month. I just don't see baseball adopting the tendencies of the other sports anytime soon. I am interested to see how it plays out once Fanatics owns all three sports. Depending how they brand product, we could see a seismic shift in collecting. Hard to say.
We are all bias in what we like. Some collectors only like base cards, some like autos, some like game used RPAs , etc. I think to each their own. Scott is a traditional collector, some historic sets. But he doesn’t like other historic sets. It’s all about what we like though. Most collectors hate other sets bc they own sets that they think are most important. The argument about those Yordan RPAs, some have stickers, some have player worn, gotta stick with game used on card autos.. I don’t even look at the entire set, gotta look at the sub sets within them. I think dynasty is overrated Honestly. Subsets within Five Star - Jumbo RPAs, Definitive Jumbo RPAs, Tier One RPAs are super cheap. On Card Vs Sticker, Player Worn Vs Game Used.. Size of the Patch, is it a true sleeve patch? Is it a team name logo? A number? Ya really have to educated yourself. Honestly though, I think ya have to collect both, BC autos, RPAs, ya can’t be ohhhh this one is more important than this one. I mean, who are the “baseball guys”? It’s all generalized opinions on what each of us think. All it takes is 2 guys to fight over a card. Personally, ya gotta find cool patches. Look at tier one prodigious patches, historic in terms of last 10+ year had sets. There’s only 1 - /10 rpa of Yordan. They are also game dated with proof from a card with the mlb cert hologram. He only wore a specific jersey that year. If topps uses special jerseys which are worn 1 time then imo it’s a special piece. It’s just about not stop learning really. It never ends Scott is obvious in his opinions, he literally hates RPAs lol. It’s his own opinion. Really though, collect what ya like. I like everything and there’s nothing wrong w that. I do agree w Tpott that there is way more opportunities with RPAs. Ultimately, it all comes down to what do ya want your end game to be? What is your end game. Sell all your cards? Caskets Card?
Chris here - hey man, thanks for watching! There are definite tiers to the patch autos - the yordans you’ve collected are bad ass cards. On card or bust, 100%! At the end of the day, you’ve got it exactly right. Collect what you like!!
@@SpitballinCardsyeah I know your not a fan of RPAs either lol. But You’re right, collect what ya enjoy. For me, the last 10 years in the hobby I’ve done both. I just have much more fun with mem cards. I appreciate them more. It’ll always come down to what we like tho. It’s hard to put a brand on a pedestal when we are all biased. Each brand or set has garbage subsets that no one collects - inserts, parallels, etc. Personally I’d rather an auto or mem then a plain card. But it’s just me. I appreciate SSPs and 1st Autos too. Keep the hobby alive!
@@SpitballinCards 😆 definitely.. but hey, atleast we love what we love and they are important to us. We can defend it very well. And, there’s many people who like what you like and like what I like. To each their own! That’s why I love this hobby. Ya don’t have to do 1 thing and there’s no right or wrong way to do it.
Chris here - best thing the bowman first autos have going for them is that they are the first cards. The first autos. Traditionally, they’d be considered the rookie cards. Topps changed the rules in 2006, but the first card is almost always the most desirable.
I think Scott nailed the issues. Football and Basketball have had a decade+ to tier out and define the market for RPAs and what product(s) have the market leading types. Baseball has RPAs in nearly every product that isn’t Ginter or Big League, whereas Panini has been selective about what products get an RPA and their quality levels by brand. The ceiling on a Dynasty RPA is capped when you can get a filthy RPA of a top rookie from a slew of other brands for a more consumer friendly value. I think Inception in particular hurts it as those RPAs are very cheap with nice patches (likely due to the sticker).
Funny enough, the reason Bowman 1st and Panini RPAs are the kings are the exact same reason: there is a relatively hard cap on the number of a truly desirable card type that is seen as collectors by THE card for a guy. If Panini put RPAs in Score numbered to /1000 in five different variants or Jackson Holliday had Bowman 1st autos in Paper, Chrome, Draft, Inception, Heritage, Pro Debut, and they put out Bowman Definitive, Bowman Chrome Black, Bowman Dynasty, Bowman Transcendent, etc. we’d see declines there as collectors might decide something else is the grail if you will.
Great debate guys.
Thanks so much for watching and the thoughtful comment. Much appreciated!
I found TPott’s argument to be compelling. He’s just contending that one slice of the card market will outperform another during the time frame he specified because of a price dislocation. There doesn’t need to be any kind of tectonic shift in the baseball card landscape for his position to play out. Good discussion by all, thanks for the episode!
Good point. He definitely was focusing on a short-term inequity, and then we got into a larger discussion. Thanks for watching and commenting!
Great session guys. I’m only a few minutes in so hopefully this thought survives the video! My take here is that like Phil said, baseball collectors don’t really love RPA’s…totally agree. I would just add some exceptions: they do seem to like certain relics (understanding this isn’t rookie stuff) like pieces of field seats from places such as Ebbets field or bat relics from the superstars…it seems these kind of relics play well so perhaps something other than patches/jerseys etc could play better as a Rookie Relic Auto (RRA’s)…might be something for Topps to explore for future rookie auto versions with stuff in the cards?
Thx again for a great session, gentlemen
yes, love the stuff that can be linked to a SPECIFIC game/event too. Thanks for watching!
I actually strongly agree with Ty.
Personally, my favorite card I own is a 2020 Topps Dynasty Yordan Alvarez Logoman RPA. I have a fairly significant collection of his prospect and rookie cards, but at the end of the day each card is just another parallel of the last. The uniqueness of game used material is what separates Dynasty, and sets like it from traditional collections. While I understand most patches aren't nearly as special as a 1/1, all of them bring you closer to the game and the player you're collecting.
Thanks for watching and commenting!
Some great points. I think the biggest issue is the expense of the set itself of dynasty. There’s no base auto so I can’t even get in on the ground floor for certain players.
I am a true time machine. Left the hobby over 30 years ago and just got back in. My observations:
I understand demand/scarcity driving these prices but to me an auto for a young player who will potentially be signing for decades is worth very little. A swatch of a uniform is a crumb of something cool if it was left as a whole. 90% of these rookies are the next Kevin Maas.
It all adds up to me that for the same money you could have something truly special and rare of a proven great player like The Mick, Koufax, or Gibson. I get the excitement over potential but even if it pans out someday their cards will have the same excitement of an older star and you simply paid the price for that up front.
Chris here - I’ve given up trying to understand the prospecting aspect of the hobby.
If Wyatt Langford and freddie freeman are selling for the same price, I know which one I’m buying.
Thanks for watching and commenting!
🍻
Love the Kevin Maas shout-out -- I had binder pages full of his cards!
Agree with many of everyone’s points. Fell in love with the 2018 Acuna Dynasty cards and purchased 11 of them all for $400-$800 back in 2018-19.
Nice pickups!
Those are fantastic. Great buys!!
I’m a bowman guy. I bought a Julio Blue bowman auto but I’m not gonna lie, I was kicking myself when that 1/1 Nike swoosh dynasty went for less than $5k.
Chris here - the baseball card market isn’t just different. The rookie cards aren’t the first cards in baseball.
Some of the dynasty 1/1’s are truly incredible.
@@SpitballinCards well it was re-listed for $50k so maybe I’ll grab it someday
@@AP_Sportscards 😱😱😱😱
Great episode! I love this discussion. You guys were all spitting knowledge and I'm so embarrassed because I should know as much as you guys but that's why I watch 🙂.
In regards to the discussion. You did a great job because I see both points.
The issue for me is after the present year and beyond . There's just so many of the same card but with a different picture in the same sets. And there are so many sets. We are going to have a left profile versus a right profile, picture etc. That's what scares me about the future of the hobby.
So much more I can say but I just will leave it here. Thank you guys so much! Was a great episode. So many details. A huge fan. Keep it up. I appreciate it and as im sure many of us do. Thank you. Keep SpitBallin!
Appreciate the watch and comment - thanks much!
Chris here - you hit the nail on the head.
So. Many. Sets. With. RPA.
But only one has the first bowman chrome auto.
I’m a baseball guy and love RPA’s. Game worn and auto. I am fine with those in different sets. I love the reverence RPA’s.
The reverence cards are really great.
I like the bowman chrome porridge autos too.
Just so many products with similar cards…
My only argument is that tpot is only looking at singles. A $1200 hobby box of 1 card is absurd regardless of how high end the patches and autos are. I just don’t see a product that only gets opened by the top 1% of the hobby as being some staple of the hobby
This is a valid point -- while the singles may gain some steam, it's really hard to see the masses opening a product that costs over one $1k for just a handful of cards. Thanks for watching!
Great point. Chris here - I’m certainly not buying any of those boxes. Price is insane. What percentage of boxes will get their money back?? Maybe 5%?
Thanks for watching and commenting!
If they didnt add wemby these boxes would be 850 look at last year's going for less when they released also dont forget 2020 dynasty was 374.99 when it released now these boxes are just streamlined to breakers on fanatic live and Blez. I remember my wife fussing because I spent 600 on a 2018 dynasty Soto back in the day.
@@rickyboyd5315 that buy is looking better and better!
@@rickyboyd5315 Great point. the thing is, topps is a money making machine. They don’t cater to old school “true” collectors bc they aren’t buying wax etc. While some true collectors have small circles, their opinion im sure gets heard but doesn’t flinch topps plans. Because after all, they aren’t buying wax. They aren’t spending thousands on opening it either. They want what they want - they buy singles - black parallels, golds, SSP, 1st autos. They aren’t ripping it either, maybe an occasional fun rip . But I can understand the fact that fanatics just wants to make money and that’s it. The collector base will never end, they will adjust accordingly though, some will leave forever, or come back years later.. Imo dynasty is overrated. I can find great on-card game used RPAs in other cheaper sets.
i would rather have a dynasty RPA over a 1st bowman card of any player.
Chris here - every collector gets to decide what they collect!
Thanks for watching!
For sure plus the bowman has to be in a ugly psa slab
the problem with RPA’s is they are so damn thick. Most collectors get frustrated with cards that are as thick as a book. Also nobody is going to want 9 variations of the same player and most collectors only want 1 nice RPA in there collection.
Chris here - too many variations, too many different sets, too many cards!
Thanks for watching and sharing your thoughts
I would make a strong case that most RPAs aren't even actual rookie cards. Historically and traditionally these are insert cards and a rookie year designation is more appropriate.
This is an interesting point that wasn't brought up! I wonder what T-Pott would say to this... Thanks for watching and commenting!
Chris here - yeah topps pulled a fast one on us, right?
Really, no current rookie cards are rookie cards. But hey, that’s a separate video!
Thanks for watching!
Bowman 1st autos will predate Topps Dynasty RPA’s by several years and will hold special significance because of it. In NFL and NBA, the RPA’s are almost always in their first professional year.
Exactly!
Chris here and this is the main reason I just can’t see RPA taking over in baseball.
This guy gets it. All the lse influencers are pushing this based on hope. Bowman throws a monkey wrench into this whole idea. There is no reason why all of a sudden the baseball community will want a card from a couple years later. People have always wanted the first in all things collectibles. TPot is a moron
This is a tough one, i think T POT maybe correct about the spread tightening for the years he mentioned. Scott is also right about the many RPA variants that exist. Also bowman auto is more rare and limited. Full Disclosure: I've bought rarer RPAs (Dynasty and Inception)for baseball for the past 2 years because of what TPot said but im mostly a collector first.
Chris here - I can’t argue that a first bowman chrome auto looks better than a dynasty RPA. It doesn’t.
But it came first!
And also, there just too many RPA options. So many sets. But just one with the first bowman chrome auto.
Good stuff guys. I don't know, pretty much agree with everything Scott and Phil said. This convo gives me flashbacks to 2020-2021 when YT folk were saying select stuff was going to outpace prizm in basketball. And there was a bump...and then things went back to 'equilibrium'. With all the dilution, in baseball I'm sticking to bowman chrome autos, and within that group, just the classic red/orange/gold/blue. That's it. Short term will TPott's thesis hold true for a % change? Perhaps. Long term? Doubtful.
Chris here - I think you’re doing exactly the right thing.
It's a collectors vs investors/flipper thing. It's the long-term guys who were here before the boom vs the blind herd that came in during and after the boom seeing only dollar signs.
Yeah I feel like most dynasty patches aren’t game used, so I’m not sure if I’m missing something or what.. I felt like I kept hearing you guys says they were game used.
It’s a little contradictory. Front of the card says “Game Used Memorabilia”. Back of the card says the relic is not from a “Specific Game, Event, or Season”. So you can’t match it to a game but it’s legitimate.
@@Philmington ah ok that makes sense. Thanks for the clarification
But the point remains that in my opinion there would be a bigger market for these if they WERE from a specific game -- think a player's 50th Home Run Game, or a player's 2,000th hit game.
@@Blabbin_Bout_Slabbin for sure. I doubt that happens, but would be great. Idk I have to say I’m more interested now that I know these are game used. I always just read the back 😂
@@Blabbin_Bout_Slabbin They do make some like that now in dynasty saw the Ken Griffey Jr 2500th hit card get pulled couple days ago
Interesting thoughts Ty with data to back it up.
The one minor thing I'll bring up is grading, especially with PSA.
I'm always hesitant to send in thicker cards and I don't like BGS.
A Chrome card or a flagship parallel is usually a safer bet to get a 10.
I don't usually buy RPAs so I can't comment too well on condition of Dynasty.
Although I have owned various Panini and Topps RPAs from 2019, and zero looked like good grading candidates.
Regardless thanks for the quality knowledge drop.
Great point about grading -- it seems like PSA STARTS at a 9 on a thick card and only goes down from there. Thanks for watching and commenting!
Chris here - agreed. PSA doesn’t like the thick cards!
Thanks for watching!
As a person who has been collecting slowly for on and off 47 years and what helped me get interested again for this last time over 7 /8 years again RPA’s are part of what got me back in the hobby/collecting 1/1’s and 1-10, Nice card , nice multicolor patch , usually an early really detailed auto , I do agree the industry finds a way to F things up by over flooding cards or styles , but as for me they are way undervalued, Very Respectfully Navy J
Thanks for watching and sharing your thoughts!
Chris here - some RPA do look incredible. The 1/1’s can be especially great.
But there are just too many products. I wish topps would pull back production and just make maybe 2 sets with RPA. As of now, it’s too watered down.
Thanks for watching and commenting!
Yeah what Ty said. Take one look at Dynasty and it's easy to imagine a world where they rank with bca 1st and then surpass.
Being able to distinguish the "true" RPA is important. Panini has given up a little bit but not entirely but there was a time where the "true" RPA was distinguishable. If Topps can do this it will long term be a competitor to bca1st.
Chris here - I just don’t see it.
So many sets have RPA’a in baseball. But only one set has a players first bowman chrome auto - and those autos come FIRST.
You could make the argument that rookie cards in baseball aren’t even rookie cards anymore.
But that’s for another video!
However, the MLB debut patch autos are spectacular. The only card that can challenge the first bowman chrome auto super.
People who open Football and Basketball are now asking me if I have sealed Hockey because of Connor Bedard. I think it will take a player with that star appeal and hype to move people from other sports to baseball and than maybe RPA could become more popular.
Chris here - hard to imagine more hype than what surrounded Ohtani!
But maybe we’ll see one of the rookies this year be that guy!
Thanks for watching!
Generally speaking how you feel about this dynasty topic is going to come down to what you collect. People like Tpot and myself that collect all major sports think the dynasty rookie card discount is comparably absurd. Baseball only or mostly baseball collectors tend to be slow to change and slave to tradition. Don’t own any but Dynasty should be king of the baseball rc. Bowman will always be king of the 1st or prospect card. Bowman will always be 1st by a few years at least so comparing dynasty to it is like 🍎 to 💣
Thanks for watching and commenting!
Will there be a future discussion of collectability of Topps Dynasty non RPAs of players?
We should talk more about non-bowman chrome autos and non-rookies.
Good idea!
Thanks for watching and commenting
They just proved TPots’s theory wrong. All the Dynasty patches they said they can’t afford! They are extremely expensive already!
$1k/box is absolutely absurd. Who can afford that??
What do you guys think about the “iconic possibility” of the MLB Debut patch? It’s the best innovation I’ve seen.
Chris here - we’ve talked about the MLB Debut patch autos before. Easily a players single best rookie card. Great idea from topps.
I just hope they continue it. Consistency will be key with those. We need to have them every year.
Langford, Carter, Choirio, Holliday, debLa Cruz, Dominguez - iodate chrome could be LOADED with debit patch autos this year!!
@@SpitballinCards Missed that convo, but I totally agree! They showed JH Lee wearing the uniform with the patch on the Giants telecast. It gives the card so much desirability.
@@CoffeeCardsPlus 💯💯💯
Love that!!
I think with fanatics and their licenses for product and the highest distributor of game quality jerseys, etc. and Phil mentioned the rpas in F1, one thing that is consistent with that and something that is creeping into the actual memorabilia in the jerseys, etc is the higher prevalence of actual patches. Sure the fans don’t really like it for baseball, but for every other sport patches, whether sponsorships or rookie debut or anything else the ownership wants to add, Fanatics will be the suppliers to the public of these items.
The more authentic and opportunity to add scarcity/uniqueness to the clothing items, etc. the higher value that item has in the future, the more opportunity to make more money on these as rpas in the future.
It’s checkmate for fanatics either way. Just my 2 cents to this convo 😂 not sure this makes sense or not. Thanks guys good stuff.
Thanks for the insight! Appreciate the watch.
Chris here - agreed and that’s why the mlb debut patch autos are truly special.
Thanks for watching!
I’m with Teapot one the RPA potentially getting more live in baseball. A lot of people don’t dive so deep into the number of cards from every Topps set, they’re just happy to be able to get something different and usually has that eye appeal from the patch and auto. Yes the more they make the less valuable they will be, but if you’re paying $200+ for a box, there is an expectation or at least a strong desire to pull something that looks fantastic.
Chris here - dynasty is always one of the best looking products but imagine spending $1k on a “box” and your card is Oswald Peraza. Or Christopher Morel. Or Bret Baty.
I’d be done.
You can tell Topps is trying to push growth in the RPA area already. If in not mistaken I believe they are available for the first time in Transcendent this year. Be interesting to see the price on some of these when they hit the market.
Supply has to go down if they want demand to go up. Just too many options right now.
I think the biggest problem and you briefly mentioned it, is that players really just don't have "iconic" cards anymore cuz you're just so many of them. When you say Griffey rookie everyone knows what you're talking about. When you say trout rookie everyone knows what you're talking about. You say Yordan rookie, there's no specific image that comes to mind.
Chris here - that’s an interesting perspective.
Players today absolutely have too many cards. Too many rookies in particular. But only ONE first bowman chrome auto.
Nothing as iconic as the 89 upper deck Griffey though. Yet…
Ty spittin facts . Scottie spittin emotions
Maybe…
The RPA's sound cool ...my biggest beef with the BOWMAN 1ST is the horrible images ...Bobby witt jr. Looks like he's 40. And Juan Soto looks like he's 12...also Alot of great prospects change teams by the time they reach the Pro's ...so the uniform change sucks....its the reason prospects and rookie logo cards will always co-exist.
Good point, the images aren’t ideal, but a first auto is a first auto!
I mean, until 2006, we’d call it the rookie card…
I’m with Ty. I love the game used on card patch autos. If I’m going to put something on my wall to display, that is way cooler and better looking than a Bowman 1st auto to me
Better looking - yes. Can’t argue that!
I'm all for it if it's a game used RPA.
Definitely has to be game-used 👍🏼
Yep. Definitely not “from any specific event or game”
All of those are pretty sweet looking cards.
💯💯
Bowman is king, as simple as that!
Chris here - agreed! First is best.
Thanks for watching and commenting
Hard to argue with that, thanks for watching!
Ty hit the nail on the head with his Dynasty thoughts. And Phil talking about the panini sales during the boom is a prime example of what could happen when collectors from other sports cross over.
Could!! Definitely could!
Thanks for watching!
Do I want the RPAs? Yes.
Can I afford them? No.
First Bowman Autos it is then. 😂
Sounds good to me!
2016 Dynasty looks awesome. Great David Ortiz patch autos. Love the simple white/gray background to contrast the red/blue logo colors.
Thanks for the tip, I'll have to check these out!
It is a great looking set
I do think there will be growth in that area, especially with the younger collectors.
I think the Patch over the Picture is what will determine the Popularity.
I do wish Topps would keep RPA's only in a couple of the sets.
I do think that the number of sets hurts the RPA market and would like if Topps would drop a couple more sets like Tier One and Tribute.
Chris here - totally agree. Just too many products with similar cards.
Well said Phil.... "Baseball card collectors dont like things in their cards."
Hahaha - he’s not wrong. There’s a percentage that does, but right now it’s the minority.
I like the play ...getting in front of a trend.... nice thinkin' T-Pottster....MLB has traditional collectors so I stick with 4-5 of the same options every year...I am also an older collector just past 50... the options are just so endless I cant chase everything. I am not an RPA patch baseball collector like Dr. Phil mentioned. His point is dead on from my point of view. Nor can I ever see myself buying one. But the younger generation may well ~so follow your thesis T-Pott.....stay true to your angle. It certainly wouldnt be a shocker IMO. I enjoyed your time and thoughts. Jeff ~ your reminder about what the definition of an RPA is was a crucial aspect to this ensemble...impeccable timing~ even for a Brewers fan.
haha, I appreciate you noticing my input! 🍻 Thanks for sharing your thoughts, as always!
Haha - even for a brewers fan!
Might be more interested if they made it baseball specific for card pieces:
RBA or RHA. Rookie bat autograph or Rookie Hat Autograph 😎
Some of thee sets have very specific items in their patches.
But there are so many sets…
Great video. I agree with Scott. There is too much confusion in baseball RPA.
I also think Geoff and his team are encouraged to market Topps high end products as "good" and potential replacements to NT and Flawless in baseball. I have heard Geoff say this over and over. I think Geoff and many of his camp don't have the experience that Phil and Scott point it out.
I think Fanatics COULD make an elite RPA product, but they need to look at adding to the experience. How about pull an RPA in baseball that gets you an invite to a Transcendent like party with players SIGNING your RPA live.
Love the live signing idea! 🍻
Chris here - if topps wants to make RPA’s truly special they’ve got to make less of them. Simple.
Thanks for watching and commenting!
it can be incredibly problematic trusting your intuition when applied to the movement of the masses.
Agreed!
T-POTT seems to have invested into some Dynasty lol
Maybe!
Well, I guess my /10 Dynasty Torkleson is not so special. Lol. This was a good talk.
Tork is primed for a big year, that card could heat up!
I bet it looks great! And like jeff said, Torkelson and the tigers are for a step forward.
As for the Crome’s any kind some number up to 899 so The early baseball RPA’s are more rate but theres enough to spark interest and they are way undervalued for sure , i think the Crome s are watered down and lots cards are plain boring as for prospects cards again its early auto’s it makes a big difference or refractors , , excellent round table fellas
Thanks again for watching and commenting!
I think topps dynasty is a bit too bougie for most baseball card collectors. They look nice but i can think of 100 other baseball cards i’d rather buy for the money at any point in time. Landscape cards also deduct a few points in my book.
Chris here - you’re a vertical only collector? I love a good horizontal.
But at $1k+ per box I think topps is out of touch with reality. Absurd price. Whose buying this to rip??
I have a handful of horitzonals but i never cared for them in slabs. If i buy one, i prefer raw. If folks have the money to buy $1k boxes, don’t let me stop you but you won’t catch me buying them.
Lebron will be in next year's dynasty
🤯
Heck fanatics is even watering down transcendent now. 190 cases versus the 99 cases last year. They are destroying the value of the products imo
@@mangobango6970 💯💯💯💯
Too many sets, too many cards. We’ve been down this road before.
Brice Turang isn't in Dynasty because he's Brice Turang. that's why it's in Inception...
🤷🏻♂️🤷🏻♂️🤷🏻♂️🤷🏻♂️
i really like how T-Pott really does a good job of not saying something negative to say something positive. because i like topps reverence doesnt mean Dynasty is bad, dynasty is amazing i just prefer reverence
💯
as a collector i would definitely spend more on an rpa than just a auto for sure.
Chris here - I get it, but I just can’t get on board. Bowman chrome autos come first and tis just one set. Too many RPA products out there for me.
Thanks for watching!
@SpitballinCards i totally get your perspective. because i focus on one player the multiple RPAs are cool for me. if i was collecting a larger variety of players i would be with you all the way
Scott was sassy on this one
😂😂😂
High end products get lost in the Topps Baseball flood.
Comparing 2021 releases: (sources TCDB and baseballcardpedia)
2021 Football
Panini brand - 32
Donruss ‘brand’ - 4
Others in the Panini family - 2 (Score & Zenith)
2020-21 Basketball
Panini brand - 25
Donruss ‘brand’ - 3
Hoops ‘brand’ - 2
2021 Baseball
Topps Brands - around 60
Bowman Brands - around 12
Finest Brand - 2
Stadium Club - 2
Panini’s stuff - around 15
This feeds back to Scotty and the Yordan’s. There’s so many products that you can have RPAs as the highest cards in low-end products, good pulls in medium-end products and then whatever’s in high-end products.
I think Dynasty’s not even the only ‘1 card per high-end box’ in baseball ! (Luminaries)
And then the oddity of whether the market thinks a $500 ‘one-card box’ or a $2000+ ‘5-8 card box’ is the highest end product.
And as Philmington mentioned, Dynasty coming out in December is bang on the money.
It’s way past the end-of-season, but it’s not the first of the next season so it’s in a marketing no man’s land. You’ve exhausted collectors with a set-per-week and NOW you want to know if they want some Dynasty for Xmas ?!?
@@TenaciousAC "Marketing no man's land" - Perfectly said!
Too many sets!!!
i personally consider topps reverence as the best RPA. Admittedly, the patch is not as good, but there is one out of 10 image and one out of 5 image and thats it. and its not a product that you can buy sealed. you have to find them in another product.
Chris here - I like those cards too. Out of flagship so a little extra special.
I’m also a fan of the bowman chrome relic autos. Usually a pretty small checklist as well. And it’s rookies and stars. Not prospects.
@SpitballinCards those are sweet. there are a lot fewer patch autos on chrome cards in general, which is crazy because they look so good
When a card says the authentic mem on this card is not from any…….does it mean the mem is actually associated with the player not just a napkin?
Great discussion,,I have my 2 cents & a question,,1st off I think baseball hobbyist have trouble with higher end is bc baseball is the 1 sport that your roi is better especially retail vs panini retail I think the panini guys are used to spending higher dollars chasing & conveting RPAs than your average Topps spender. Okay and for my question I would love to hear your guys input on how Topps even on dynasty cards say game used memorabilia on the front of card,,but on the back it's says not from any specific game or event, which if you see that on a panini card your first thought is it's just another of the rack jersey,,,is Topps just saying it's game used but not from any specific game or event.
Yes that is correct. It is game used but not from any specified game. As opposed to relics like tribute with a sticker which ties it to a specific game.
Chris here - another issue with RPA in baseball is that rookie cards aren’t the first cards anymore. Unlike other football and basketball.
Topps pulled a fast one on us.
Wonder how much NBA and NFL dynasty will be?
A LOT
My thought is, baseball is an old American pastime. Many collectors of baseball cards dislike change in the same way they dislike the pitch clock and new rules. F1 is an expensive sport, 1k a ticket plus, high end cities, etc. expensive is apart of it. Baseball is a cheap game historically. 1950s a ticket was $1.50. Those people are still living. You think they want to pay $1000 for a baseball card when they grew up on $2 dollar tickets. But what happens when the old gatekeepers pass away? The old “original” bowman colors won’t be remembered by these kids. When these kids get older, and they’ve lived off $8 dollar coffee and $200 dollar game tickets, they might want the game worn auto card for $1000. Dynasty is like panini one and one, people love it. I think Ty is right. It may not overtake bowman autos but the gap will likely get closer and closer .
Thanks for the thoughtful comment, what you put forth makes a lot of sense!
Appreciate your thoughts - you’re right! Baseball fans and collectors do not like change!!
But change still happens anyway.
🍻🍻
@@SpitballinCards love all your takes, it’ll be interesting to see it play out but I lean towards Ty in that the gap will close some. I think younger people will like patch autos as they get more money. But by far my favorite podcast, baseball and cards! Just need it on Apple Podcasts haha
@@dubscollectables719 if topps would drop some of the sets, the gap could close even more.
Thank you! We’ll look into it!
Love seeing Ty trying to shoot lasers from his eyes at Scott. 😛
Both of you raise valid points. I think Ty is right that the delta between high end RPAs and traditional prospect and rookie cards will likely shrink. I agree with Scott that it likely won’t be a monumental rise and that current RPAs are watered down by the sheer number/variety of them and the number of sets.
Phil is correct that it might not be Dynasty that becomes the “go to” RPA product. Topps needs to do a better job of not spreading these RPAs around so many products. They don’t become meaningless, but they haven’t become meaningful.
Chris here - there’s just too many sets with too many similar cards produced.
Plus in other sports, the RPA’s are the first cards. That’s not the case in baseball.
Topps used to only put the RC logo on base cards, now they put it on everything. I think if you want a clear winner in dynasty you have a base set and everything else is an insert. The base set gets a RC logo, the 8 other images are not true rookies and don’t get a logo. But Topps would have to cool it with the RC logo button for it to happen.
Chris here - Topps is NEVER going to cool it with the rookie logos. They already changed what a rookie card is to sell us more of them.
Thanks for watching!
Baseball fans dont care about rpas. I think the future is stadium club rookie sps . Limited to 200 and hard to gem. Plus i think stadium club football and basketball will be super popular.
Chris here - I LOVE those stadium club sp. I’ve been saying for years that topps should include 25 on card autos of each SP.
I’d go nuts for those.
@@SpitballinCards cant agree more, but i also watch your show .so i might be biased. would be great chase cards though
@@mauricecampbell3925 💯
Valid conversation, circa 2010
Phil - why do baseball card collectors not like things on their cards? Is this is simple answer or a topic for a whole show? I could understand vintage collectors like it because of the simplicity of cards of their favorite player, but you would think things would be different with modern collectors. I hope watchers of this show see and appreciate the different prospective you each bring with raw stats, trends using technology, experience selling sealed wax, and overall knowledge of the sports and cards.
Well done 👍 🎉
🍻🍻
RPA designation come from Basketball OG’s, most of them have migrated to baseball and are trying to hype it up, but baseball traditionalists won’t go for this, Bowman is king like it or not, and that trend will remain for the future. Also those “RPA’s have conflicting language , in front says game used, in the back says not affiliated with any specific season, year or event, so are this patches from celebrities games or just worn in a photo shoot and used with this confusing and fraudulent language!? Bowman pre dates this product issues and true OG’s on baseball collecting won’t budge for any “RPA’s with scammy disclaimers!
Chris here - agreed! Bowman comes first.
I will say that when patch autos are tied to specific games - like the mlb debut latch autos - those are bad ass cards
Boys, I dont mean to point out the pink elaphant in the room but I think Bowman could struggle because it's maybe strange for some grown men to be that interested in boys under 18. Why don't people understand that? Or do they?
In terms of baseball cards - and cards ONLY - this has never been an issue.
So why start now?
Unless you’re joking, in which case, 😂😂
No I'm not joking, I think it's a hard sell to those coming over from other sports where the prospects are adult University grads with accomplishments not highschool boys getting millions of dollars for reasons unknown. It's for the all the same reasons that men don't often teach younger grades. @@SpitballinCards
If Topps really wanted to they could make a Bowman 1st RPA I mean a MPA and just make it a 1 of 1 besides that to me patches and relics are overrated.
I think that is a great idea,,have a Bowman 1 st patch auto,,and than have the mlb debut auto both 1 / 1
Chris here - great idea. They have to take from the jersey on draft day/signing day.
Add a patch to that jersey. Then cut it out and put it on a card! Easy!
Didn't you already do this video?
Whatever we can do to avoid the Kurt’s Card Care topic 😎
@Philmington I gave this episode a second go and made it past the repetitive info at the front end (Since I already listened to T-Pot's video earlier). Glad I did. I set up at shows in Denver, and baseball is just a different market. I'm a huge baseball fan but I need to buy and sell in football in order to move the amount of cards I want to transact every month. I just don't see baseball adopting the tendencies of the other sports anytime soon. I am interested to see how it plays out once Fanatics owns all three sports. Depending how they brand product, we could see a seismic shift in collecting. Hard to say.
I hate RPAs, think they are so gimmicky
Thanks for watching and sharing your opinion!
T Pott won’t be around here long if you keep questioning Topps…T Pott and that Atlanta store wholly dependent…bye bye T Pott…
The whole hobby is dependent on Topps!!
👀 👀
We are all bias in what we like. Some collectors only like base cards, some like autos, some like game used RPAs , etc. I think to each their own. Scott is a traditional collector, some historic sets. But he doesn’t like other historic sets. It’s all about what we like though. Most collectors hate other sets bc they own sets that they think are most important.
The argument about those Yordan RPAs, some have stickers, some have player worn, gotta stick with game used on card autos.. I don’t even look at the entire set, gotta look at the sub sets within them. I think dynasty is overrated Honestly. Subsets within Five Star - Jumbo RPAs, Definitive Jumbo RPAs, Tier One RPAs are super cheap. On Card Vs Sticker, Player Worn Vs Game Used.. Size of the Patch, is it a true sleeve patch? Is it a team name logo? A number? Ya really have to educated yourself.
Honestly though, I think ya have to collect both, BC autos, RPAs, ya can’t be ohhhh this one is more important than this one. I mean, who are the “baseball guys”? It’s all generalized opinions on what each of us think. All it takes is 2 guys to fight over a card.
Personally, ya gotta find cool patches. Look at tier one prodigious patches, historic in terms of last 10+ year had sets. There’s only 1 - /10 rpa of Yordan. They are also game dated with proof from a card with the mlb cert hologram. He only wore a specific jersey that year. If topps uses special jerseys which are worn 1 time then imo it’s a special piece. It’s just about not stop learning really. It never ends
Scott is obvious in his opinions, he literally hates RPAs lol. It’s his own opinion. Really though, collect what ya like. I like everything and there’s nothing wrong w that. I do agree w Tpott that there is way more opportunities with RPAs.
Ultimately, it all comes down to what do ya want your end game to be? What is your end game. Sell all your cards? Caskets Card?
Chris here - hey man, thanks for watching!
There are definite tiers to the patch autos - the yordans you’ve collected are bad ass cards. On card or bust, 100%!
At the end of the day, you’ve got it exactly right. Collect what you like!!
@@SpitballinCardsyeah I know your not a fan of RPAs either lol. But You’re right, collect what ya enjoy. For me, the last 10 years in the hobby I’ve done both. I just have much more fun with mem cards. I appreciate them more. It’ll always come down to what we like tho. It’s hard to put a brand on a pedestal when we are all biased. Each brand or set has garbage subsets that no one collects - inserts, parallels, etc. Personally I’d rather an auto or mem then a plain card. But it’s just me. I appreciate SSPs and 1st Autos too. Keep the hobby alive!
@@SpitballinCards I try to watch and support yas. Appreciate ya guys
@@markymichaels the good news is you and I will rarely have to bid against each other! And we still admire each others collections.
@@SpitballinCards 😆 definitely.. but hey, atleast we love what we love and they are important to us. We can defend it very well. And, there’s many people who like what you like and like what I like. To each their own! That’s why I love this hobby. Ya don’t have to do 1 thing and there’s no right or wrong way to do it.
Agree with Tpott. Bowman 1st does nothing for me. RPA’s are dope connected to the player w the memorabilia as well
Chris here - best thing the bowman first autos have going for them is that they are the first cards. The first autos.
Traditionally, they’d be considered the rookie cards. Topps changed the rules in 2006, but the first card is almost always the most desirable.