Flexible Solar Panel FAILED after THREE YEARS on my RV
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 15 มิ.ย. 2019
- AFTER THREE YEARS on my RV one of my 100W flexible solar panels FAILED. Here’s what I did to troubleshoot the problem and try and fix it. What would I change next time? Did it get too hot? Was it cracked? Did the diode go bad?
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Three years ago (in 2016) I added three 100 watt monocrystalline semi flexible solar panels to my existing RV solar system. One of the three solar panels recently failed. The other two panels still function properly, but the PET top surface is showing some wear.
How did I know there was a problem?
I have two separate solar arrays on my roof. The array with the three 100 watt flex panels was not generating any current. It was, however, generating voltage. The three panels are connected in series, so I suspected that one or more of the panels (or connections) was not working. I disconnected each panel from the array and tested each one. The failed panel was not generating any current (amps) but was still showing voltage. I swapped the bad panel out with a 100 watt spare flex panel and the array came back online.
Removing the failed panel?
In order to replace the failed flex panel I had to first remove it. This was one of the first 100 watt flexible solar panels I installed. It was screwed in to the roof and had a bead of Dicor lap sealant around it. So removing was not a quick task.
I started by removing the six screws and then went to work on the Dicor. Dicor can be very difficult to remove, so I tried a new technique I’d read about. Using a propane torch, I heated a putty knife and used the hot knife to cut through the Dicor. It cut through the Dicor like butter, but also cut into the rubber roof membrane if I wasn’t careful.
With the Dicor removed, I removed the solar panel and cleaned up the remaining rubber roof surface with mineral spirits. I then covered the screw holes with Eternabond tape.
Trying to repair the panel
Not knowing why the panel failed, I wasn’t sure if I could fix it. I couldn’t see any visible signs of internal or external damage to the panel. So the only way I could maybe repair the panel was if the bypass diode in the junction box was shorted.
I don’t want to spoil the video ending, so I’ll leave you now to watch the video and see how it turned out.
#rvwithtito #rvlife #vanlife #rvdiy
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I'm not sure how you're getting away with it but a word of caution, place you're probes on whatever you're measuring after you set the meter to the function to want. If you just turn the knob thru the functions with your probes connected you will connect to a function that will blow the meter before you get to the function you want. Always turn to the function you want then connect probes! Hope this helps.
Thanks. That's probably better practice doing it that way. I have blown a few fuses :) It's usually fine though as long as I'm within the 10A current max. I usually use a clamp meter for this test, but didn't do that in this video.
(UPDATE - Sept 2019) Here's a FOLLOW-UP VIDEO taking apart this Solar Panel
Also, it seems that further explanation of how I measured the current is needed here. I hope this helps. The solar panel's "short circuit" current (Isc rating) is measured across the pos/neg outputs of the panel when isolated from any other load or solar array. As the name "short circuit current" implies, the panel is short circuited during the test. I realize this may sound counter intuitive if you haven't worked with solar panels very much, but this is how it's done. Taking the Isc measurement isolates the panel from a separate load.
This is not the same as measuring current between a power source and a load which only measures the current (amps) being drawn by the load.
FOR EXAMPLE: A measurement taken between the solar panel and a battery will only measure the amount of current being drawn by the battery at that time. This will vary depending on the chemistry of battery and its current state-of-charge. A full battery will draw very little or zero current and your measurement will reflect that.
Sure, you could create a large load to try and max out the panel's output in full sun, but you'll need more equipment and connections to do this. A simple voltage and Isc measurement in full sun is the quickest way to determine if the panel is working to spec.
The 100W panel I was testing has a max current output of 5.7A. Therefore I could measure the Isc with my multi-meter which can measure current up to 10A without blowing the internal fuse. The meter will only measure current when the positive test lead is moved to the 10A current input. Since there's nothing connected to the voltage/resistance/etc inputs of the meter, switching the dial through the other modes to get to the current mode does no harm on my meter. Of course, follow the instructions on your specific multi-meter if it's different.
The other acceptable way to measure the short circuit current of a panel (Isc) is to connect the pos/negative MC-4 connectors together and measure the current using a digital clamp meter placed around the cable. The clamp meter is the quickest way and works best for measuring current at any level. That's my prefered way to measure current on a single panel, array or DC circuit.
Again...I hope this helps clear things up.
@Frank Olsen Thanks Frank for adding to the conversation!
NOT understanding what part was UPDATED??? This is the same video from 3 months ago.
The missing link to the panel tear down is here th-cam.com/video/WTBMVt5u-no/w-d-xo.html
You have an open connection on one of the bus bars in the panel. It will pass voltage but the moment you draw current, it's internal resistance (since its essentially a broken wire / open) shoots up and you get no current. If you want to play with it, lay it flat with some sun on it, and the amp meter hooked up and press on it, take a rolling pin and roll it across the thing, not hard enough to really crush it but maybr 5 to 10 lbs of force to push broke connections back together. WHen you hit the area you should see an amp spike as the pieces touch and make a circuit again. Sometimes you can stick a soldering iron thru and 'weld' those pieces back together, but that perforates the coating so you'd need to seal that back up.
Have fun!
That’s a good idea for fault finding and potentially fixing the issue.
There are only so many things that can go wrong with a panel and this being flexible certainly could lead to such problems. Totally worth a try.
Funny timing - Jared from "All About RV's" just did a video on flexible solar panels and mentioned your channel and how you have had great luck with the panels. We decided to go with traditional panels but they are much harder to mount. I loved your process of "digging in" and seeing if you could find what was wrong with the panel. Thanks for the informative video!
Haha. You're welcome. Yeah I mentioned that to Jared the day before I released this video. Funny. BTW: I enjoy following your bus project too. You're solar rack is pretty impressive. Nice work!
Nice to watch your troubleshooting efforts even when they wind up with the dead end. I'm sure these videos take you hours to make very nice of you to take the time and make them available to us!!!
Great video, Brian. Great to hear and see your analytical skills still rocking. We are closer to our first RV. Rest assured we will be checking out all your vids again.
Excellent video and work. It was great to see a follow up to the initial install, plus the heat marks left on the roof. Very informational.
Thanks. Glad you got something out of it.
Panels need to be able to dissipate heat. Glued to your roof does not allow an air flow underneath. They quit producing electricity after 150F. Flexible panels last only 5 yrs.
you are very correct!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! work fine for me.
Lol they all fail. Only ones that last are copper backed sunpower solar cells. But even those have reduced output after a year. All flex panels are horrible and I have tested stacks of them. Really disappointing.
Hey Will. Yeah. Still pretty new tech especially with mono cells. Lots of room for improvement. My thin film panels are still rockin it though after 6 years. I agree that Sunpower is the solution for now.
Too funny. I was just going to mention Will Prowse (I bought your Mobile Solar Power book-great how to book-) as someone I follow and say that they all fail according to Will Prowse. Flex panels simply not there yet. There's a reason most companies quit manufacturing them. My next door neighbor was a design engineer for solar panels, says flex have too many weak links. Just can't handle the everyday sun and heat generated by the sun.
@@joeboxter3635 Thanks Joe!! :D
@@garlandcampbell7994 Thanks Garland! And yeah, very unfortunate
@@joeboxter3635 I appreciate that Joe!!
I respect and appreciate your honesty about your experience with these panels. I've been following you for years and I trust your knowledge Thanks for sharing!
Learning The hot knife trick alone was worth the watch besides all the other knowledge. Thank you very much!
Hey Brian, another great job explaining your thought process and analysis. That kind of info helps me a lot. Thanks again
You're welcome.
Update: I HAD flexible panels mentioned for 3 years. Contacted Acopower and they replaced although far out of warranty. Need to give props for that company. They really back their products. Also, they have updated that cloth backed model and now has more durable film and stiffer build.
Older comment: I have some folding flexibles (Acopower, good company) and they have lost capacity over a year of use. They scratch and lose capacity due to the film failure in other ways, even with plenty of ventilation. But it's the only thing that will fit in my van comfortably. The cloth backed ones also sag.
Well, while I have a degree in electronics, and electrical power systems, my education took place many years before this equipment was developed, so all I know about it, is the same as anyone else. We learn what we search for and study. However, I do have two separate 900 watt systems on top of my RV, (I switch back and forth, to better exercise the batteries), one thing I have always kept right at the front of my electronics/electrical knowledge, is that heat is not your friend. Attaching flexible solar panels directly to your roof, with no possible opportunity to air-cool the BACK of the panels, is, in my opinion, a recipe for failure. My own panels - 300 watt rigid type - have a 1 1/4 inch gap from the bottom of the frame, to the roof. This allows a heat-driven exchange of cooling air below them, and, of course, some serious air flow cooling while in motion.
Solar panels have not yet made that greatly anticipated leap to 3 or 4 times the current efficiency (like the 4-layer type used on the Mars Rovers), but the prices have dropped significantly, and the more expensive, but infinitely more resilient, framed, rigid panels, are a much better choice. By the way, imagining your flush-mounted flexy panels are contributing to lower fuel consumption do to streamlining is just not true. They work about as well as gluing funnels over your headlights.
I think I've learned that I don't want flexible panels after all. This plus Will Prowse's video may have convinced me, though your installation in another video was sheer brilliance. Thanks for sharing, Brian.
Glad the video helped. Best of luck with your solar project.
Yup the flexible panels don’t last. Had 4 flexible panels on the roof of my camper replaced 2 under warranty in under 4 months. Then a third went bad so I just replaced them all with renogy rigid panels. No problems after that.
I believe the problem with the flexible panels is overheating since there is no air gap underneath. I live in south Florida so lots of heat. If you look at the rigid panels they look exactly like the flexible panels mounted in a rigid frame.
Yes. There are lots of options. But, like traditional panels, not all flex panels are the same either even though they may look the same. It's very hard to tell though so it's best to pick a reputable source. Good thing you were able to replace yours that were under warrantee. Thanks for sharing your experiences!
Yeah aluminum backed flex panels will be able to dissipate heat better the thicker the aluminum is. But you lose all that “heat sink” when you slap it down on the roof. I’m to the point now where I don’t see any added benefit to doing flexible unless it was on a conversion van or vehicle and you really did need the height savings to fit in garage or whatever. Traditional panels hold up just fine if mounted correct. A person can get rubber bushing mounts to help with any potential flex movement
if overheating due to direct flat installation is the problem them perhaps mount them on slightly raised plastic grids?
We all learn from this. I appreciate your sharing!
I'm glad to hear that. I had a hunch this would be a controversial topic :)
Thank you for your information. I'm thinking doing the same thing with my travel trailer using the flexible solar panel. Keep us updated.👍
I'm still a fan of the flex. I'll share the new way to mount in the next one.
Wow, this should be a sponsor video for Dicor, I'm surprised how well it held up! Sorry to hear you're down a panel but thanks for another great video! Just for fun you should try cutting the panel into quarters and measuring the output of each... might help narrow down the problem area (assuming it's not multiple problems)! Take care and God Bless!
I'm definitely planning on tearing that panel apart to see if I can get the back off. Yeah. Dicor is awesome stuff.
Great channel Brian. Watching you burn your money is so much more pleasurable than melting mine. Your channel is saving people money because you really put these products through their paces. The evil culprit "Heat", the sworn enemy of all thing electronic is at work again. You really exposed how the inability of panels to dissipate that heat, when stuck down to a hot roof surface using this mounting system can jeopardize the mortality of these flexible solar panels. You just saved me and countless other subscribers Moolah!
Hats off to you sir, you are doing the RV community a great service. You have helped so much in flattening out my learning curve of RV living as all of us viewers adapt and convert to solar and lithium battery technology. 👏👏🚌
Glad to be the guinea pig :)
Thanks for the info Brian. Very informative as always. Thanks for the sneak peek of the polycarbonate backing. I await with great anticipation of that video!!
Yeah. I know you've been waiting on that one. Glad you liked the pics.
: Thanks for the video. I wouldn't know how to use a Multimeter I would be completely lost on that part but I enjoyed watching the video. Using the warm scraper what's something that I may be able to use in the future thank you for that. Keep having fun.
Nice detailed video. Many people have gone with flexible panels for the ease of installation. It seems they are still not ready for prime time for direct surface mount applications due to the heating issues. It's very telling how some will last for years while others give up after one season. It was cool watching you get into the panel to see what was up. I'm sure if there was a way you would have had that panel back in service. Safe Travels.
Thanks. I plan on sticking with flex panels, seeking out the good ones, and keep experimenting with new ways to improve their application. Hopefully five years from now we will see some improvements. 5 years ago we didn't even have many of the flex panels available today.
I,m using the glass and aluminum frame solar panels on my old rig. Been on for over 10 years, still working pretty good. Bought a newer rig and was looking at these panels for easier mounting. Guess i will keep looking. Thanks for the info
Great video! I bought 1200w worth of flexible panels from Alibaba about the same time as you. I'm lucky if I get half the output now. It's good to know I'm not alone. Thanks again for all your honest videos. Long time fan.
Thanks Andrew!
Early flexible panels used a covering plastic that goes opaque after prolonged exposure to sunlight/heat so you lose output. More recently the covering of choice seems to be ETFE but how do you know that's what was used and how do you know it will last more than 2/3 years anyway ? Still best to buy brand name from suppliers you expect to stay around. In this case it looks as if one of the interconnects between the 32 x individual 0.55volt cells has gone high resistance. If you could get at the back you might be able to fix it but destroying the weatherproofing in the process.
What is your background? You are so knowledgeable in many areas. Thanks for your help with my RV.
Oh. A little of this and a little of that :) Always learning. Glad to be of help!
Replaced my flexibles with a solid last week. They lasted 2.5 years, only one broke but I was happy throwing them away. I've gone from 200w flexible to 300w solid, but have more than double the power because it just works so much better.
As always, another excellent post, very informative, many thanks.
Thanks for sharing your misfortune and educating us a little. I guess I'm going to stay away from flexible panels a while until the technology improves. Another good "dad stuff" video on this auspicious weekend.
The technology for good flexible panels has been in the USA for many decades. Many amorphous (the original type of commonly available solar panels) are still in service after 35 years. Amorphus panels are of a lower efficiency so you need nearly twice the footprint yet they can productepower when shaded or even in moonlight (not much though). As with any product, a given manufaturer can choose to make a less durable panel and unfortunately...most flexible panel manufacturers do. Seek a quality panel in whatever you buy.
Sorry to hear Brian. 7 of our 8 Suaoki 100w flexible panels died within a year. They never gave me answer of why but gave me a refund. It's too bad they're not longer lasting as they are perfect for RVs. Flexible for slight roof curves and 1/3 the weight. Maybe one day they will be up to par. Great video as always and safe travels!
-Thomas
Yeah. I remember that was a major hassle for you. Too bad it was such a bad experience. Congrats on the growth of your channel and your nice new rig. You guys have come a long way (and I don't mean from FL). Well done!
@@RVwithTito We all live and learn right!? Us sharing our failures will hopefully help others to make the best decision they can for solar stuff. I truly hope they improve as they could be the perfect compliment for RV solar. Also thank you for the compliment! Crazy we've been doing this 2 years with 1 year on the road now!
-Thomas
Thanks for the video Brian. I enjoy learning with you as you troubleshoot this stuff. I’m in Bellevue, WA this week so maybe not too far away from you in WA.
Normally yes but we escaped for the winter...on the beach ⛱ in mexico right now 😃
I see you going with my greenhouse panels I used couple years ago.
They help.
Just get the 1/2 inch thick ones.
The 4 - 7 mm ones are stock thickness and cheapest. The thicker ones are better heat transfer.
At one time I thought these flexible solar panels were the way to go, light weight and easy to mount. Then I started seeing people that had used them complain about them not lasting for more than a year or two and it looks like you've joined the club.
This was my first one to fail. I'm still a fan though and don't mind being the lab rat for flex.
Sunpower panels only .
Hi Brian I lost on of those panels in 6 months. To get it off I used one of those multi tools with the vibrating scraper attachment. I went through like melted butter. Great idea of heating the scraper for cut through. A note of caution, I have a metal roof. So I am not sure how well the multi-tool would work for you. I lucked out and had it replaced under warranty. I did make a new mount like yours so I could just basically unbolt it. I did use the tape to hold sown the leading edge of the panel, At speed it would make noise.
Great information though and as always a great video..
Thanks for the tip. I'll show you what I did for the new panel soon.
Thanks for the troubleshooting video. Good approach to heating the putty knife. Also, I like your 3-n-1 lubricant ads on YT! Nice going. Are you going to try for other products as well?
Funny. I saw one of those ads popup recently too. It took me by surprise. Thanks! I don't have plans to do more at this time. WD-40 asked for my help on those earlier this year, so I said yes.
I learned this stuff is way above my pay grade. 🤪
Amazing enough, Just yesterday I watched a video about these kind of panels creating heat to the roof. And, they recommended watching your videos on the matter. Just 1 day ago...wow!
Jared's video. Yeah I know :)
well i do love your work the fact you go through & show us is really great thing you r doing, I just purchased the new Rich Solar CIGS flex I do not see anyone yet with a decent feedback & install maybe I should do this? I'm almost certain the heat generated did the kill
While doing my due diligence on Solar I watched your video on flex panels 3 years ago. Although my "installation" was NOT going to be attached but portable so I could chase the sun as we tend to camp in the woods or shade. After much debate of glass vs flex I went glass due to the high rate of failure i was seeing & local dealer dropping for same as well. 3 years later mine is still working well. I understand that the newer ETFE (Ethylene Tetrafluoroethylene) versus PET (Polyethylene terephthalate) are much better (?). I would prefer the flex in theory though.Time will tell.
Yeah. I like the ETFE panels. They don't show their age and scratch like the PET ones do. My other panels on the roof have an ETFE coating and have lasted for over 6 years now.
Thanks Brian, even though you couldn't find the problem it was still interesting to the the analitical process. OL on a multimeter means OverLoad.
I figured it meant "open" something...especially when measuring resistance.
RV with Tito DIY I believe it means Over Limit.
@@saharts Yeah. That makes sense.
@@RVwithTito I guess Over Limit makes even more sense. See you making this video has educated a few of us in the comments alone :)
I was taught OL means "Out of Limits".
Unfortunately, you, me, Will Prowse and I'm not lost, I'm RVing have come to the same conclusion. Three years is about it. I have 12 panels and about 1/2 have failed. A few failed in one year. I'm removing the 1200 watts of flexible and replacing them with 4 - 300 watt panels.
Thanks for sharing....very informative.
I appreciate that. Thanks.
When i first saw your video installing those flexible panel, I knew it wasn't gonna last 5 years. Their biggest problem is they can't dissipate heat very well and it gets worse when you mount it flat on the roof with no ventilation underneath or a way to cool it down. The connections essentially melts under the cells and kill the whole panel.
I had some issues with my HQST panels too. I replace them with 160 Watt Renogy panels.
Followed the instructions to the letter and also used eterna bond patch tape for extra measure and one Panel came loose and damaged the other three creating a TOTAL loss. We will be pursuing a Screw-down option and what seems to be too good to be true is.😢
Your video are very informative..
I did not use screws to attached my panels, just used 3" tape for rubber roofing. no holes and works well.
Thanks Brian! Saw the note over on Instagram, we're boondockeroutlet, so popped over here to watch the whole video. The heat trick is cool. I followed your install for our six flex panels. Makes me think I should go up and test each of the panels to see if any have failed. With so much variability we get here in WA I'm not sure I'd notice if 1 of 6 had gone bad. I look forward to your next install update for sure! Any chance you're looking at tilt options for them too? :)
Thanks for bouncing over. Yeah. I was confused at first because the voltage for the array looked right but the current was very low.
Monitor your charging amps over time (days/weeks). If you notice a drop that doesn't come back to normal, you probably have a problem.
Thanks Brian. Your helping me learn. Havagudun.
Same exact problem I had with the flexible panels. Voltage dropped to unusable after a little more than one year on my vehicles roof.
Yes flexible panels fail.
Panels in a frame rarely fail.
Raymond James hit the nail on the head, its all about air flow.
If you use a flexible panel, mount it with a minimum 3mm air gap.
Flex solar pannels need an air space under neith to disapate heat....that's why they fail.
Perhaps a heat sink should be glued to the undrrside, ribbed for air passage ...aluminum works best
Really, here we are with a flexible panel glued to a rigid roof and we learn about these details which show a sketchy installation. Why did this get installed this way. Thanks for sharing the current checking procedure. No need to remove to do this. Just unplug the leads and test output. Better luck next time.
Panels shrink and expand with heat. The deadly stress is because of glueing them directly on metal, which expands less with heat. Like metal sheets on roof, panels should be mounted being able to move slightly.
Enjoyed what you did, if your roof is Metal, try using strong peel back magnetic strip tape on a coil, it will lock panel on the roof like, glue, plus, you are not in direct contact with the hot roof, with ventilation under the panel, one utube said make sure you use waterproof connectors for panels. Tell me what you think of my idea, plus no sticky adhesive
Word of caution. It’s okay to directly check current of a panel as long as its below the rating of your meter. Panels are self limiting on output current. If you try this with a car battery or multiple panels it will blow the fuse in your meter if there isn’t a load on it or it’s a enough current destroy your meter. Good information. Looking forward to install.
Very true. Measuring short circuit current of a solar panel confuses most, because you wouldn't short circuit a battery. I typically use a clamp meter to measure short circuit current, but I thought I'd do it this way this time. Thanks for the info!
I have had the fuse in my multimeter actually explode with a bang. Not dangerous that I know of but scary nonetheless. I tread lighty now when checking amperage output.
@@geraldhenrickson7472 Yeah. I've blown all my fuses too. The BANG sounds exciting though 💥💣😀
@@justincase00 Don't need a load. He was reading panel short circuit current, Isc on panel ratings. As long as Isc is smaller than the 10A setting on his meter, he is ok.
Brian,
Thanks for all the things you cover
Curious re the leak on your flexible solar panels.
1. How firm did you press down to activate the bonding of the tape? Seem like the weakest part was the overlap of the 2 layers. Would firmer pressure have prevented the leak. Or could a bit of cleaner allow a better bonding @ that joint?
2. Might a 45° joint or some butel (sp) have made the joint watertight.
3. Could there be a way to put a small drip tube in to let it drain?
Just some thoughts since we're looking @ a similar install.
Mot
Can the interwiring be accessed by peeling the reverside insulation off? There if acessible the continutity of the cell inter conection junctions can be ohms checked. The cells also will have deteriorated but probably not to give only 50mA
I bought a flexible solar panel about 1992 when I was in Quartzsite, AZ. It's been on top of semi trailer about 15 years. I use the trailer for storage and used to keep a battery and couple of 12v lights in there. The battery died several years ago and I had no need to have lights in that trailer any more. I don't know the brand or the wattage, but I'm thinking it was 15 to 25 watts at that time and I think it was $150.00 in 1992 dollars. All of that to say that I went to the trailer yesterday and put a test light to it and it lit up. So I guess that one has lasted 27 years. The panel is screwed to the metal roof with no air circulation under it. It's in direct sunlight any time the sun is shinning.
Money well spent ☉👍
With that much roof space, I'd install 300+ watt regular non-flexible solar panels rated for 25 yrs. I wonder what brand those panels are, but from what I've seen flexible panels don't last.
I've got around 550 watts total on the roof (two separate arrays). That was is from HQST.
The huge influx of overseas semi-flexible and flexible panels decimated the USA market. The quality of most is terrible...often lasting but 1-3 years. All this gave flexible panels a really bad reputation. QUALITY flexible panels can last decades but they are getting difficult to find. I find Unisolar was the best but they are now defunct. Sniff...
@@geraldhenrickson7472 with the construction techniques I doubt any flexible panels will last more than a couple of year.
@@geraldhenrickson7472 I'm prob weeks away from a flexible solar panel purchase. Have you found any other good reputable flexible solar companies?
I bought a lot of these around the same time you made the pvc frame videos. They have all mostly failed by this point. I will never by another flexible solar panel again. Thanks for the upload. I just put a short video about my most recent fail and the replacement.
They've failed already? My others are still good to go.
If you buy flexible, Sunpower Only.
Thanks...that was very interesting.
You bet 👍👍
I have 4 x 100W flex panels on my rig, I was on the roof and noticed that on one panel, one of the 36 cells looked like it had shorted out. the lens was melted so I assume that cell is totally dead. But what I don't know is. how much effect dose that one cell have on the rest of the panel or even that entire array. They are connected in series
Thanks
One side of the 5 way tool you were using is flat, the other side is beveled. If you put the beveled side down,you can get the edge to ride slightly above the roof membrane so it so it won't dig into the roof. Try looking at it on a table top and you can see what I mean.
1st mistake was buying flexible panels instead of glass. I thought about that and got Grape solar but there is a company that has 320 volt panels for cheap. You should try Arizona Wind and Sun.
Thanks for that video. New subscriber here.
You're very welcome!
Most probable lack of output current will be broken interconnect among the individual cells. Vibration on the roof and thermak cycles can break spot weld/solder joints.
I've looked through the panel with a bright light and couldn't see anything. I'll have to remove the bottom layer to inpect further. thanks for the comment!
Reading through the comments, I would say the heat affected the inside solder and provided just a small amount of connection for the current to pass.
I bought two of those earlier in the year (King Solar branded). One died within about 2 weeks (Amazon refunded and said don’t worry about sending back). The other died after about 2 months (no refund). I have some cheaper flexible panels that are still going strong after 2 years. Mine are bungee strapped onto the canvas top of my sailboat Bimini. And I remove them when not needed. Of course solid panels are better and cheaper, but no place to mount easily on the boat. I’m about to get 2 Sun Power 170w flex panels. They sure are pricey though, but heard pretty good things about them. I’m gonna try mounting on some 1/2” corrugated plastic board, then to the Bimini canvas. Hopefully they will get a little airflow underneath that way. Thanks for the info. Never heard of measuring current across the panel like that. My education tells me always measure current in series with a load, because current is the flow of electrons. I’ll have to give it a try.
I have two of the SunPower 170W panels on the front of the RV now. Very good quality. I love them and may be a couple more.
How did you wire your meter to get both volts and amps without changing the connection to the panel?
Wonder if Goof Off Would Effect Dicor Adhesive i have Vinyl Remove Solvent (Industrial Strength) this Stuff Remove 3M Double-Sided Tape Only Side Effect Heavy Orange Scent
Brian I think it likely that the panel failed due to a cold/cracked solder joint within your panel. You're getting voltage because there is a connection within the panel but it is too small to carry any current. Unfortunately, there is no way to repair it without destroying the panels weather protection.
It would be like if your inverter was connected to your house batteries by only one strand of the large copper cable you have... You could detect voltage but that tiny wire in no way could carry the current to run your inverter.
I think some panel destruction is in order :)
@@RVwithTito A bit of Russian Roulette to find which connection is the bad one. It would be easier if it had an open to find where the failure is. But it might make for good video digging into it to find out.
Great video and trouble shooting technique! Seems like flexible panels are best for occasional camping and/or power outage usage where space and portability is at a premium. 24/7 exposure to heat, UV, and weather takes a heavy toll.
I have had 2 100W panesl go bad on me. They spend 90 percent of their life indoors lying flat with only limited use during the year. Seems like broken solder joints in between the individual cells. Might try to reflow them somehow.
@@CincoDave27 which brand?
Hmm... after reading how critical is is to provide an air gap to keep solar panels cool, I'm thinking solar flex panels would (very likely) benefit greatly from a layer of heavy duty foil or thin piece of corrugated aluminum paneling (applied across the bottom of the panel) to help dissipate excessive heat, which should stabilize efficiency, while also increasing longevity!
You can repair that panel. The problem is a loose/poor solder connection between the cells. The connection will show voltage but the actual damaged area it is still connected by is so small you won't see any amperage thru the circuit. Most panels can be repaired by removing the back membrane just at the cell connections and resoldering at each cell. An exacto knife works wonders. When finished repairing the connections you can simply cover the areas you cut away with a coat of rtv type silicone rubber like an automotive gasket making product. Of course you may spend an hour or two repairing it but to save around a hundred $ panel, for me I'd gladly spend that time on it. Good luck!
Brian, In order to have a current flow, shouldn't you incorporate a dummy load between the + & - output leads? That DMM if connected across the output would act as a high impedance load and I would't expect to see any current flow. Assuming you get 20V at 5A, you need about a 4 Ohm resistor as the dummy load. ... Jim
I see this is old, but for what it's worth, you do NOT need a resistor any any load to measure current when checking with a multimeter connected to measure current. You are simply shorting the panel through the meter when connected this way, and it will measure any current output the panel may be providing. This is how Isc is measured.
Having advanced skills for using a Multi-meter shows your level of talent, you continue to educate us all. I'd be curious to hear from the manufacturer of this panel, what their take is on your ability to troubleshoot a panel. Do you think they want them to be repairable? Thanks for posting this video.
The way they make them, makes them virtually non-repairable unless it's the diode or cable. I'd like to try and take it apart though. Would you like to see that?
@@RVwithTito YES, with you analytical abilities I'm certain many would like to see that. Go for it. I'll stick with the easy mods, for now. New 5r for me, lots of mods to do.
To measure Amps you have to put your meter in series with the circuit, Right? When you measured the good panel, was it hooked up to the battery to allow a place where current can flow?
Not exactly. Please see the explanation I posted at the top. Hope it helps.
Thanks Brian
Hey what do you think about Renogy flexible ?
Have you used any ?
I have a similar class C with 2- 100 watt reg panels and l am thinking of going with flexible for additional needs : )
I haven't used Renogy's flex panels so I can't say.
I'm thinking about adding new solar panels over the flex ones mounted on my roof without removing the flex ones any thoughts
Suggest you get a oscillating muli tool with a scraper blade to remove you next failed panel.
I have two 136 watt unisolar panels on my truck camper. I am very happy with their performance. I even had to replace the roof this spring and was able to remove it from my roof. There was enough adhesive on the back to put them back on the new roof. I didn't think they would still function, I waited until a nice hot part of the day and very slowly pulled the old roof off of the adhesive, the angle I had to pull was probably 120 degrees and I would have figured it would damage the panels but they actually worked just fine when I tested them. also, I don't know what the efficiency of these panels are, but before I removed them off of the roof, I never got more than 9.5 amps to the controller, now in strong sun, I get up to 12 amps. The only thing I can guess is I did shorten the wires from the panels by about 2 feet. Does anyone know if that would be enough to account for a 2.5 amp increase in amperage? BTW I had these type panels on my last rv and these have been on my truck camper since 2012. Very happy with them, I never had a problem with either camper, I am not good at figureing out the efficiency, I only used the controllers, gauges as a reference.
I currently get around 17 amps from my Unisolar panels combined (6 years old now). They are great. I often wonder if it would be possible to remove them without removing the roof. I hope I don't ever have to.
@@RVwithTito Wow, that's alot of amps, how long is the wires from your panels to the controller, mine is about 8 feet long.
Hi Brian, could you tell me how your new blinds are holding up. I replaced mine with a different brand a few years ago. The problem was the plastic gears kept breaking. Thanks. Doug
So far they haven't worn out but it's only been a few months. We love the day shade.
@@RVwithTito I bought some that were similar to yours ( not MCD) It seemed like I had to replace one or two on every 3 or 4 trips.
Did you replace the diode with anything or leave a open circuit
Very helpful. Your other roof panel are amorphous flexible panel correct? how old are they vs the failed panel?
Correct. They've been on for over 6 years and still going strong.
@@RVwithTito - wow that company was still in bz. Thanks again gor the videos
@@thomasdipaolo2349 No I got them from eBay after the company went bankrupt. Bummer that they did. I think you can still find them in limited supply on Amazon and eBay.
Is there no warranty. Have you not voided the warrant by opening the terminal block??
I think it was 2 years. Plus I always have extras on hand.
Can you mount solar panels on a coragated metal roof that does NOT have a smooth or even surface? If you can, what else is necessary? This roof is made of the same aluminum siding that is on the sides, front & underneath the cabover. This truck camper is an older one in excellent condition.
Need advice on electrical testing tools needed for the RV. Getting to rebuild my tool kit as most of my tools were stolen out of my garage :(
You don't need much. I like that SURPEE multi-meter with the big numbers. You can see it here on my shop-tools kit kit.com/rvwithtito/favorite-shop-tools. Aside from that, wire stippers, pliers and a crimper. If you work with solar then a clamp meter really comes in handy too.
Hi. I'm about to start a build that will correct the issues you are experiencing with flexible panels:
Panels should have nothing but air under each cell. Permanently glue a little spacer at each intersection where two or four cells meet, plus a continuous row across the front (pieces of pencils are cheap and have opposing flat sides).
Cut a piece of twin-wall plastic cardboard to fit the panel width-wise and longer than the panel by half the width of your tape. Cut the top surface and inner walls back about half the width of your temporary tape, but not enough to strand any spacers. This means the panel will overhang a bit on the sides and rear. If that bothers you just make the twin-wall one tape-width wider and longer than the panel so the top ends up fitting exactly.
Paint (only) the top of the twin-wall with stove paint to absorb infrared. Secure the interior surface of the twin-wall to the roof with temporary glue or tape. This is important. Perimeter-secured-only panels get beaten to death by bumps and vacuum. Secure the exposed perimeter of the bottom layer of the twin-wall to the roof with temporary tape. Note that this eliminates the large step-up during taping, along with lots of moisture issues.
Use permanent glue to attach the panel's spacers to the twin-wall. Use temporary tape (or that cool aluminum angle piece you made) to seal the front (the joint between the roof and the twin-wall is already righteously sealed, so errors here won't cause problems). Add slopes to the roof to the front and back of the panel with caulk, foam, or whatever so as to smooth airflow during travel.
As I've seen you do, panels should be run parallel to travel, giving a narrow front and a shorter path for the venting air to travel. Note that this means that correctly installed 100/110 watt panels will outperform their wider 160-175 watt brethren.
The venting air channels do better with a "top" and a "bottom" so it's a good idea to put your panels right on the edge of the roof, where it's steeper).
Well darn...my only suggestion would be a panel with a 15, 20 or 25 year warranty which would likely be made in the USA. At least this might be an indicator of a panels quality. As always, I recommend the Unisolar brand and even though they are now out of business, some new old stock is still available on eBay. I also hear good things about the solar panel manufacturer out of Bend, Oregon yet cannot recall their brand name. There is a TH-cam video tour of their production facility that is pretty fun to watch and seems a high quality product.
I still have 250w of Unisolar on the roof too. They're over 6 years old and still going strong.
Hi if you have bent them too much before installltion or walked on them then they last about 1 to 3 years and they fall in performance because the crystals are broken and when they get hot then the gap between the crystal becomes too big and they lose the connection and in my cases they had been bent too much during transport and poor quality. It is clearly forbidden to walk on the solar cells and when mounting I can see that you have glued them incorrectly by only laying a glue on the edge of the solar cell. It happened to yours when you drive that they vibrate up and down and it destroys and in some cases when the solar regulator pulls more amp then fire and gaps can occur in the cells and eventually they do nothing and when you put them in series so the bad ones destroy the good in service. There are also some that are made of poor quality and they may only be mounted in parallel. You either glue a large cross and glue all the way around the outer edge and gently wipe your hands with articulated pressure. You can also glue some waves 3 pieces depending on how large the panels are but the ones you have then 3 waves with support glue are stringent and glue all the way around. Just something that supports the cell so it does not move / vibrate during driving or storm. Powerful hail can also destroy cells more easily than normal glass solar cells. And when cleaning it is important not to bump into the box where the wires come out, it is also seen that the print is torn over and the dead ones. The best way to check if the condition of the panel is to send power into the panel and take pictures with a UV camera so it is clear to see any cracks or faults. But getting a company for this is usually expensive. If you know someone who has a FLIR, you can see when they draw electricity where there is heat development and which cell. The volt can not be totally counted on, but if you put a voltmeter on and you push gently and the volt rises then it will certainly crack and it is a matter of time there will be holes and in the worst case fire, but it is important not to use the system if any suspicion or clear signs are seen brown and the surface is melted. Hope you can use this.
Thanks for sharing that info. I agree with what you say. I've also been wanting a FLIR, but yes they are very expensive.
I had my 1st portable one die also, it's still in the garage and I keep testing it to see if anything changed, it hasn't :(
Thanks for posting but I have the same problem and was really hoping for a solution in the video or the comments. Does anyone know how to repair this?
Most solar panels are not repairable unless the problem is the connector or in the junction box.
Did you measure the current across the panel output with no series resistor?
Great ya got 3years! On my Prius I need 5 months for payback so mine are worth the gas savings from the aero dynamics of the flexible.
My others are still doing ok too.
You're lucky. You got three years. I had two panels that looked identical to that and they both failed after one year.
You need to leave gaps for airflow under flexible panels - the lack of which probably caused your panel to cook the roof.
You read this everywhere but I have never seen proof that it is true - or at least truely relevant. So I measured the temps of my 1yo flexi panels this week, 2 glued right on, the third elevated. all were over 60°C (140f) in float and the temp difference was under 5°c. (so, 7-8f?) The roof dissipates heat as well, some into the vehicle, but the delta between adhered and shaded areas also only a 5-6 degrees difference. Therefore, the main concerns should be weight, wattage and ease of installment and maintenance and if you are in a hot desert maybe the possibility to shade the roof with the elevated panels.
Early adapters need to realize that they will have a higher failure rate. The panels have all improved, and now multiple busbars. Failures from years ago should not dissuade someone from giving it a try now. It would be interesting to see the t delta between panels in loading and float mode.
@@ediatneti Thats good info, thanks.
why a flex panel on a flat roof? just use rigid ones. Okay what process? Should we unplug each panel to see and perhaps use a volt meter on the output? I have three month old system now seeeming to drop in output and discolored band on my flex panel.
Brian is that a hive tool you were using for a scraper? Don't throw that panel away just yet someone may come along in the next while and tell you what to look for!
I'm going to attemp to take the panel apart. Stay tuned.
It looks to be heat related. Maybe use something to space the panel off of the roof surface?