**If you love this interview PLEASE CONSIDER HITTING THE "$ SUPERTHANKS $" button ! (It's under the video. ) Any small donation helps with my work - retrieving, editing & uploading my unique and original content. ** Thank you for your support ! John
Hi . I do appreciate you asking but I have no other way for you to donate I'm afraid. You should see the option on my video page, right below the title beside the thumbs up, dislike, and share buttons. The option says "THANKS" and shows a little heart with a money sign symbol. Cheers !John
Duke is their most perfect album - balanced between the prog 70s and the pop 80s-90s. I never get tired of listening to it, though some tracks are too emotionally intense to just spin without thinking about it.
I like how Tony, Phil, and Mike still include Peter and Steve in conversation even though they left the group, there were no hard feelings. Some "rock" bands can't stand each other. Genesis are classy English guys, very English and cool because they play incredible music together. I hope Phil is doing much better. I have all their albums.
I could listen to these guys talking all day long. No other band comes close to how they can make music that really moves you. I'm 63 now and was first introduced to them by a friend at school aged 15 and have been listening to them ever since and have seen them live numerous times as a band and also as solo artists. No other band in history has had that amount of success as a band and also as individual artists. Bravo gents.
I love these Genesis interviews, and I like seeing the 3 guys together again. It’s amazing how much older Phil looks than Mike and Tony and they’re all the same age. It makes me so sad to see Phil’s health so bad. He was always the energizer bunny onstage. They are the soundtrack of my life. Never will be a group like them again. Such massive talent.
John, when will the rest of the interviews be posted again? I can’t find them anywhere anymore. I remember watching them a year or so ago. They are so good.
Mr. Edginton sir, once again, thank you. Just listening to and then there were these 3 is so humbling. Excuse my language but they were fucking huge and here they sit talking about arguments over reverb or no reverb and bum notes! Wow. Probably the best band in the world, ever.
Genesis saved my life. I give up 17 going on see you in where ever This band brought me through a time I hated so much of life. The Lamb gave ne so much joy, That Life is a good thing.
When The Beatles became a hit, someone asked Paul McCartney if he realized how much his music had changed modern culture. He simply smiled and answered: "You must be kidding me!" From the outside, it's obvious for us to see their greatness. From the inside, they are just blokes who happened to get all this attention.
It's interesting that they talk about the egos. It's remarkable that these three men stayed together so long, especially considering Phil's success. That's three men giving each other the space to be for the greater good. Tony said it came from how long it took them to reach success. But I think there's something else. I've only recently discovered that Mike + The Mechanics was Mike Rutherford's band. How I escaped the 80s without realizing the Genesis tie-in is beyond me. But I watch those videos and think a younger generation would assume Paul Carrack was "Mike", because Rutherford took such a background role. Yes, he acted in the videos, but he's not the face you're focusing on in the band. And these interviews are the most I've seen Tony Banks talk. So I think Mike and Tony were shy guys who were happy for Phil to take all the heat while people said, "Damn that keyboard player is amazing" and, "Holy cow, that guitar!" And when you watch the performances, they always seem to really be loving playing together. Mike and Tony knew their power and were genuine in wanting Phil up front. So there was no need for ego. On any of their parts. I've come to the conclusion that performing was Phil's breath. That was his great love and everything else in life was his mistress. Genesis exercised one part of that breath and Phil Collins exercised the other. And he was more focused on breathing than he was on being adored, though I'm sure that was enjoyed. So I see all these men as being cognizant and grateful for who they are and the roles they played. And it's just remarkable. A 3 in 8 billion matchup. Because when panties are thrown and personalities are worshipped and charts are topped, they were able to keep hold of Phil, Mike and Tony. I'm just looking in from the outside and playing armchair analyst. But that's what I see.
Armchair analysts welcome here! Thanks for your thoughts. You like to watch some of the other Genesis reunion videos on my channel . Here’s one GENESIS IN CONVERSATION AT THE FARM. PT 1 - WHAT'S THE SECRET ? th-cam.com/video/HrDXVzUnv1w/w-d-xo.html
Great interview - lovely to see the interaction between them. Thankyou for posting this. We were so lucky to have been able to see them and listen to them for all these years.
I love these videos. Thanks. I was born in 1970. “Misunderstanding” was the first time I found out about Genesis when it was a hit in 1980. I remember a kid I played in a junior golf match against singing it as we walked off from the first tee.
Great interview! In 90’s I worked at a radio station and I quickly realised that I didn’t wanted to do interviews the same way as everyone else. You’ve got the press release and I took that as things not to talk about, since I understood that they probably were tired of getting the same questions over and over. Eventually the artists asked to be interviewed by me because we had a nice atmosphere. This interview reminds me a lot of that. A relaxing atmosphere where the person interviewing is like one of the listeners.
Compared to past interviews Phil seems more “out of it” in this and subsequent ones…he got his neck injuries on the 07 tour and I assume he was taking strong pain meds even at this point.
@@JohnMacRae23 fair. He could still walk at this time but he looked heavier and slower. That said a few photos I’ve seen of him recently he looks relaxed and happier and healthier. Touring in his condition was probably difficult even with the best of arrangements.
Thank you John, these videos are so insightful. Phil's breathing seems laboured in this interview. He's always a class act though. Didn't deserve all the backlash, that's the Fleet St tabloid's for you I guess. When these rags end up extinct, your films will serve as the lasting account of the band's history.
Phil seems like such a nice, pleasant, easy-going fellow who gets along well with everyone. Fellow band mates, anyway. However, his marriages are a different story. He seems to have a lot of difficulty getting along with his wives. Tony and Mike, on the other hand, have been in very stable marriages for decades. Tony married Margaret in 1972. Mike & Angie married a few years later.
Very smart, clearheaded, driven individuals. You could’ve taken those same three guys and taught them finger painting and they still would’ve been successful.
Chissà se fossero rimasti sempre uniti cos’altro avrebbero fatto. L’abbandono di Gabriel è stato micidiale e poi il successivo di Hackett ….Ma quello che ci hanno donato resterà nella storia della musica per sempre.
Short answer: Bum notes. I always forget where i got that joke from and it was Tony who said it lol, i mean, it does sound like something he would say, i just try to not assume that its the case but then there it is
Hi John, did you ever edit the whole multi-cam together in the end? Was it used at all. I've been to The Farm twice now shooting interviews with Tony and Nick Davies on Banks Statement release around this time maybe 2016. Tony was a Gent both times. Our interview with him is on youtube Cherry Red Records page maybe....did you ever use your footage in a release?
That mixing desk is still for sale about £180K, bargain for what it is. Would love to buy it. Sadly the studio has been closed and everything sold off. Since Genesis sold the rights to their music this year.
TB was wrong about the Robbery, Assault and Battery video not being shown on tv--I distinctly remember asking my parents if I could stay up to watch it on the Midnight Special tv show
I wonder if even the other members of Genesis have any idea what Mike is saying. He never learned to slow down and enunciate. Perhaps he never needed to. Bless him.
My friends and I used to laugh so hard at his thick, quick speech. We called him Mumble Mouth Rutherford. Then I learned something which wasn't funny at all. Mike fell off his horse when he was playing polo. He landed on his face, and needed to have all his teeth replaced. Now I feel bad for laughing.
Tony Banks says that he didn't really know Mike Rutherford at Charterhouse School. Eventually they met when they started making demo tapes with Anthony Philips and Peter Gabriel. Before meeting Mike, Tony had heard of him. A house master or some authority figure warned Tony to "stay away from Rutherford," whom he considered to be a bad influence.
I think one thing they should at least acknowledge is that while THEY see it as a single body of work, guess what, all those women talking about Genesis in the eighties aren't watching videos with interviews or the reaction videos that young and old people are doing. When even Richard McPhail and Anthony Phillips, who are as close to it as anybody, say there was something special about that time you have to take it seriously. As 'artists' it may be ego that makes them not want to admit that 'as a band', as an entity where THEY were not the controlling factor, is when their best output was, at least their 'best' for certain types of fans. Even Peter became much more literal after he left, and so very different. Although I'd tend to agree with the notion that you can't go on forever writing about crazy shit hardly anybody can understand. And you have to wonder when Tony says its the 'interludes' they like better than songs on the lamb, what the album would have been like had it been mostly 'interludes', meaning, jams.
Well I don't have Dolby Atmos, and I have the early years boxset with 5.1 mixes and the archive set, so I can't really justify getting this at that price.
When he was younger, Phil Collins was the most punctual musician in Genesis. In fact, he was usually early. Phil is about a year younger than the others. Sadly, age got the better of him first.
I always say that something in the world totally changed around 1985. Attitudes, philosophies, technologies…no one seems to know what caused the change. In a sense, things are continually changing. The 60s were different in many ways from the 50s and so on. But the values projected in my favorite music do not seem to change over time. The Genesis songs from 1971 to 1983 are just as powerful as ever. I like plenty of the later stuff, too. I know there have been and are “social engineers” who favor certain cultural figures at certain times. Things seem to be way way way more controlled nowadays compared to the 70s.
Hmmm....is it just me or does Phil seem as "jet-lagged and on pain meds for his endless spine/ shoulder issues.".....as a newt....on this interview? Only joking John. Just thought I'd give you a little giggle over the repetitive corrections you're having to make here in this comments section...lol Whilst also paying tribute to the following scene in Yes Minister by way of "source." Hacker (nervously): Anything in the papers about last night? Sir Humphrey: Only a small mention in the Daily Blah; they say that you were "overwrought". Hacker: Thank goodness for that! Sir Humphrey: Well, Minister, the exact phrase they used was "overwrought as a newt"... 🤭
I'd like to know what music the guys listen to while driving, biking, on an airplane, etc, because I hear most musicians don't listen to their own music for enjoyment, which makes sense having to write, rehearse, record, then perform the songs. I'm guessing It's more like work. But I think after 40 plus years one may listen to some of their old albums for nostalgia because it is great music.
It's pretty out in the open Phil started a lot of his days with a bottle of wine after the 2007 tour ended. That and painkillers because his health struggles. My dad who isn't alive anymore had the same issues and that slurred speech is something I can spot a mile away.. I'm just happy Phil is still around and I could see the last domino tour. So bless him because he had a hell of career and got a lot of shit for it.
**If you love this interview PLEASE CONSIDER HITTING THE "$ SUPERTHANKS $" button !
(It's under the video. ) Any small donation helps with my work - retrieving, editing & uploading my unique and original content. **
Thank you for your support ! John
I can never seem to find this super like button John. Is there another way to donate ?
*superthanks
Hi . I do appreciate you asking but I have no other way for you to donate I'm afraid. You should see the option on my video page, right below the title beside the thumbs up, dislike, and share buttons. The option says "THANKS" and shows a little heart with a money sign symbol. Cheers !John
Found it, thanks John. Superthanks shows up on the app but not on my phone’s browser.
Thanks again for everything JE - Hero of TH-cam.
@@JOHNEDGINTONDOCUMENTARIES Perhaps I was being harsh.
Duke is their most perfect album - balanced between the prog 70s and the pop 80s-90s. I never get tired of listening to it, though some tracks are too emotionally intense to just spin without thinking about it.
This is the most relaxed I have seen Tony Banks in one of these interviews.
I like how Tony, Phil, and Mike still include Peter and Steve in conversation even though they left the group, there were no hard feelings. Some "rock" bands can't stand each other. Genesis are classy English guys, very English and cool because they play incredible music together. I hope Phil is doing much better. I have all their albums.
I could listen to these guys talking all day long. No other band comes close to how they can make music that really moves you. I'm 63 now and was first introduced to them by a friend at school aged 15 and have been listening to them ever since and have seen them live numerous times as a band and also as solo artists. No other band in history has had that amount of success as a band and also as individual artists. Bravo gents.
Thank you for publishing this raw, unedited material! It's still fascinating to watch. I appreciate your efforts.
My total pleasure!
I love these Genesis interviews, and I like seeing the 3 guys together again. It’s amazing how much older Phil looks than Mike and Tony and they’re all the same age. It makes me so sad to see Phil’s health so bad. He was always the energizer bunny onstage. They are the soundtrack of my life. Never will be a group like them again. Such massive talent.
John, when will the rest of the interviews be posted again? I can’t find them anywhere anymore. I remember watching them a year or so ago. They are so good.
Mr. Edginton sir, once again, thank you. Just listening to and then there were these 3 is so humbling. Excuse my language but they were fucking huge and here they sit talking about arguments over reverb or no reverb and bum notes! Wow. Probably the best band in the world, ever.
Genesis saved my life. I give up
17 going on see you in where ever
This band brought me through a time I hated so much of life.
The Lamb gave ne so much joy, That Life is a good thing.
Wow this is just the most fantastic thing ever! And at the farm wow!
They still dont realize how good they were and still are..
When The Beatles became a hit, someone asked Paul McCartney if he realized how much his music had changed modern culture. He simply smiled and answered: "You must be kidding me!" From the outside, it's obvious for us to see their greatness. From the inside, they are just blokes who happened to get all this attention.
@@TheSomsom3
"We were just a band who made it big."
-- John Lennon
I love that Tony knew everyone's birthday.
It's interesting that they talk about the egos. It's remarkable that these three men stayed together so long, especially considering Phil's success. That's three men giving each other the space to be for the greater good. Tony said it came from how long it took them to reach success. But I think there's something else. I've only recently discovered that Mike + The Mechanics was Mike Rutherford's band. How I escaped the 80s without realizing the Genesis tie-in is beyond me. But I watch those videos and think a younger generation would assume Paul Carrack was "Mike", because Rutherford took such a background role. Yes, he acted in the videos, but he's not the face you're focusing on in the band. And these interviews are the most I've seen Tony Banks talk. So I think Mike and Tony were shy guys who were happy for Phil to take all the heat while people said, "Damn that keyboard player is amazing" and, "Holy cow, that guitar!" And when you watch the performances, they always seem to really be loving playing together.
Mike and Tony knew their power and were genuine in wanting Phil up front. So there was no need for ego. On any of their parts. I've come to the conclusion that performing was Phil's breath. That was his great love and everything else in life was his mistress. Genesis exercised one part of that breath and Phil Collins exercised the other. And he was more focused on breathing than he was on being adored, though I'm sure that was enjoyed. So I see all these men as being cognizant and grateful for who they are and the roles they played. And it's just remarkable. A 3 in 8 billion matchup. Because when panties are thrown and personalities are worshipped and charts are topped, they were able to keep hold of Phil, Mike and Tony. I'm just looking in from the outside and playing armchair analyst. But that's what I see.
Armchair analysts welcome here! Thanks for your thoughts. You like to watch some of the other Genesis reunion videos on my channel . Here’s one GENESIS IN CONVERSATION AT THE FARM. PT 1 - WHAT'S THE SECRET ?
th-cam.com/video/HrDXVzUnv1w/w-d-xo.html
Great interview - lovely to see the interaction between them. Thankyou for posting this. We were so lucky to have been able to see them and listen to them for all these years.
I love these videos. Thanks.
I was born in 1970. “Misunderstanding” was the first time I found out about Genesis when it was a hit in 1980. I remember a kid I played in a junior golf match against singing it as we walked off from the first tee.
They are/were one of the great bands. A unique and original sound and wonderful discography.
They always have such a jovial rapport with each other.
I’m so glad that comes through here.
What a difference 10 years makes regarding Phil’s health
Which could be said for many of us, of course.
Good on Phil for even considering the crew’s families. Great musician and apparently, a good guy too.
Thank you, John, for creating and sharing this video with us. You did a great interview. It’s a true gem! I loved it. ❤
My total pleasure!
Great interview!
In 90’s I worked at a radio station and I quickly realised that I didn’t wanted to do interviews the same way as everyone else. You’ve got the press release and I took that as things not to talk about, since I understood that they probably were tired of getting the same questions over and over.
Eventually the artists asked to be interviewed by me because we had a nice atmosphere.
This interview reminds me a lot of that. A relaxing atmosphere where the person interviewing is like one of the listeners.
Thanks so much for these great interviews, John. Wonderful stuff...cheers! 😎👍
Cheers to you too !
Thanks again for sharing these interviews John, Phil seems in good spirits here... and then really unfortunate he has had so many health issues since.
Compared to past interviews Phil seems more “out of it” in this and subsequent ones…he got his neck injuries on the 07 tour and I assume he was taking strong pain meds even at this point.
@@GuaranteedEtern thus i said good spirits
@@JohnMacRae23 fair. He could still walk at this time but he looked heavier and slower. That said a few photos I’ve seen of him recently he looks relaxed and happier and healthier. Touring in his condition was probably difficult even with the best of arrangements.
Thank you John, always enjoy your work, no matter what subject area.
Great stuff! Thank you John.👍👍
Love all the Genesis interviews. You can tell they genuinely like and enjoy each other. Thank you John.
Three Gennius talking!! Period!! 🥰🤘🏿😋🤟🖤!!!!
Truly lovely and heartwarming interview. 😍❤ Thanks for sharing this treasure. Can´t wait for part 2!. My best regards from Argentina.
Awesome. You're a legend John
Thanks. That’s very kind of you
Your Interviews, by far, Are The Best to Watch! Love these Clips! Absolutely Fantastic!
Wow, thank you!
What a fantastic video have a wonderful weekend John also happy first day of August ❤😊
Excellent!
Thank you John, these videos are so insightful. Phil's breathing seems laboured in this interview. He's always a class act though. Didn't deserve all the backlash, that's the Fleet St tabloid's for you I guess. When these rags end up extinct, your films will serve as the lasting account of the band's history.
Phil seems like such a nice, pleasant, easy-going fellow who gets along well with everyone. Fellow band mates, anyway.
However, his marriages are a different story. He seems to have a lot of difficulty getting along with his wives.
Tony and Mike, on the other hand, have been in very stable marriages for decades. Tony married Margaret in 1972. Mike & Angie married a few years later.
Very smart, clearheaded, driven individuals. You could’ve taken those same three guys and taught them finger painting and they still would’ve been successful.
Phil sporting his trick of the tail hat from the MTV video
3/5 of one of the top acts in history
Fantastic interview
Thanks so much !
I love every album from Trespass to We Can't Dance, plus the live ones afterwards. Favourite band. I saw them three times.
I'm with you.
Mostly a fan 😅
Great interview, seeing Mike there i'm wondering if you could meet the great B.A Robertson for an interview please?
Glad you love the interview. Not really thinking of doing interviews so much right now .. but never say never ..
Gutted when i found out they were closing it down
Thanks
@Deelystaniel Thank you!! That’s hugely appreciated! And thanks for your persistence searching for the Superthanks sign !
Hang on! Tony Banks laughs? 😂
Chissà se fossero rimasti sempre uniti cos’altro avrebbero fatto. L’abbandono di Gabriel è stato micidiale e poi il successivo di Hackett ….Ma quello che ci hanno donato resterà nella storia della musica per sempre.
Two landowners and the little man from the village
🎯
Sorry to be picky but there's a typo in opening shot - The Farm is in Chiddingfold not Chiddingford - I'll get ne coat!
Whoops! Thanks for spotting that !
Short answer: Bum notes.
I always forget where i got that joke from and it was Tony who said it lol, i mean, it does sound like something he would say, i just try to not assume that its the case but then there it is
Hi John, did you ever edit the whole multi-cam together in the end? Was it used at all. I've been to The Farm twice now shooting interviews with Tony and Nick Davies on Banks Statement release around this time maybe 2016. Tony was a Gent both times. Our interview with him is on youtube Cherry Red Records page maybe....did you ever use your footage in a release?
Some of the final filming is in the 2014 doc Genesis : Sum of the Parts. It was the intended purpose of the filming.
That mixing desk is still for sale about £180K, bargain for what it is. Would love to buy it. Sadly the studio has been closed and everything sold off. Since Genesis sold the rights to their music this year.
TB was wrong about the Robbery, Assault and Battery video not being shown on tv--I distinctly remember asking my parents if I could stay up to watch it on the Midnight Special tv show
15:02 Anybody else notice that "Gorilla Chest" Tony's got going on with his jumper? 😀
I wonder if even the other members of Genesis have any idea what Mike is saying. He never learned to slow down and enunciate. Perhaps he never needed to. Bless him.
My friends and I used to laugh so hard at his thick, quick speech. We called him Mumble Mouth Rutherford.
Then I learned something which wasn't funny at all. Mike fell off his horse when he was playing polo. He landed on his face, and needed to have all his teeth replaced. Now I feel bad for laughing.
@@Trobtwillis That I never knew! When he was a boy?
@@Lachenmann7
He was an adult, but I can't remember what year it happened.
Tony Banks says that he didn't really know Mike Rutherford at Charterhouse School. Eventually they met when they started making demo tapes with Anthony Philips and Peter Gabriel.
Before meeting Mike, Tony had heard of him. A house master or some authority figure warned Tony to "stay away from Rutherford," whom he considered to be a bad influence.
Audio is distorted...
I think one thing they should at least acknowledge is that while THEY see it as a single body of work, guess what, all those women talking about Genesis in the eighties aren't watching videos with interviews or the reaction videos that young and old people are doing. When even Richard McPhail and Anthony Phillips, who are as close to it as anybody, say there was something special about that time you have to take it seriously.
As 'artists' it may be ego that makes them not want to admit that 'as a band', as an entity where THEY were not the controlling factor, is when their best output was, at least their 'best' for certain types of fans. Even Peter became much more literal after he left, and so very different. Although I'd tend to agree with the notion that you can't go on forever writing about crazy shit hardly anybody can understand.
And you have to wonder when Tony says its the 'interludes' they like better than songs on the lamb, what the album would have been like had it been mostly 'interludes', meaning, jams.
I think that there was no real resentment about either leaving.
Well I don't have Dolby Atmos, and I have the early years boxset with 5.1 mixes and the archive set, so I can't really justify getting this at that price.
Please explain ! Getting what exactly?
When he was younger, Phil Collins was the most punctual musician in Genesis. In fact, he was usually early.
Phil is about a year younger than the others. Sadly, age got the better of him first.
I always say that something in the world totally changed around 1985. Attitudes, philosophies, technologies…no one seems to know what caused the change. In a sense, things are continually changing. The 60s were different in many ways from the 50s and so on. But the values projected in my favorite music do not seem to change over time. The Genesis songs from 1971 to 1983 are just as powerful as ever. I like plenty of the later stuff, too.
I know there have been and are “social engineers” who favor certain cultural figures at certain times. Things seem to be way way way more controlled nowadays compared to the 70s.
Hmmm....is it just me or does Phil seem as "jet-lagged and on pain meds for his endless spine/ shoulder issues.".....as a newt....on this interview?
Only joking John. Just thought I'd give you a little giggle over the repetitive corrections you're having to make here in this comments section...lol
Whilst also paying tribute to the following scene in Yes Minister by way of "source."
Hacker (nervously): Anything in the papers about last night?
Sir Humphrey: Only a small mention in the Daily Blah; they say that you were "overwrought".
Hacker: Thank goodness for that!
Sir Humphrey: Well, Minister, the exact phrase they used was "overwrought as a newt"...
🤭
🤣
Great Interview even if Phil seemed very drugged out, was it jetlag / no sleep ???? Thanks for sharing !
jetlag plus pain-killers I think
@@JOHNEDGINTONDOCUMENTARIES Didn't you say he was flying in from from Geneva? No jetlag on that flight then.
@@knust2329 I met him in New York the previous week..so NY to Geneva to London in a short time
or still drunk.. :(
I'd like to know what music the guys listen to while driving, biking, on an airplane, etc, because I hear most musicians don't listen to their own music for enjoyment, which makes sense having to write, rehearse, record, then perform the songs. I'm guessing It's more like work. But I think after 40 plus years one may listen to some of their old albums for nostalgia because it is great music.
My guess is that Tony still listens to Beach Boys Pet Sounds
I must have OCD. Phil, move to the left a little bit.😄
Hahaha! I'm the same. The chairs were set up like that, but I'd have scooted mine over. 🤣
Phil seems drunk
So why is Phil acting strange?
Maybe He was already sick that time.
jet lagged and on pain killers
Maybe pain and at that time was just gone out from alcohol addiction
It's pretty out in the open Phil started a lot of his days with a bottle of wine after the 2007 tour ended. That and painkillers because his health struggles. My dad who isn't alive anymore had the same issues and that slurred speech is something I can spot a mile away.. I'm just happy Phil is still around and I could see the last domino tour. So bless him because he had a hell of career and got a lot of shit for it.
i think Phil is a bit tipsy
Jet lagged and on pain meds for his endless spine/ shoulder issues.
Maybe but his book says otherwise
Getting a bit silly now. Told me very little I didn't already know.
Sometimes it's just not always about you, son.
@@booshting3520 Ask yourself a question: is Odette a male name, or a female name... son?
@odetteswann7694 Neither, it sounds more like a product one might spray into shoes to eliminate foul odors 💡
My point stands!!!
@@booshting3520 Sometimes it's not all about you, son
@@odetteswann7694 No you
Phil seems drunk.
No. Jet lagged and on pain meds for his endless spine/ shoulder issues.