**If you love this stuff, do support me with a subscription (free). **PLEASE ALSO CONSIDER hitting the SUPERTHANKS $ button under the video to send me a small donation! (Every $/£ donated will get fed back into my work - retrieving and uploading the content you love .) **
I think you need to revise your camera setup for such important interviews and recordings. Maybe at least one camera fixed on a long shot of the group you can cut to whilst framing the close-ups and maybe 2 cameras for the closeups. It looks to me like you're trying to do the whole interview with just one camera which is almost impossible for an ad-hoc response shoot. Even a GoPro on a tripod will work, or possibly a later iPhone, but be careful of crossing the line. You can edit it all together with multicam edit software such as Lightworks, Final Cut Pro or similar.
@@125brat This is on the video info NOTES RE CAMERA ISSUES Why is the camera moving so much? There were 3 cameras. you’re only seeing the “ rushes” footage from one of them. The camera operator is changing shots and focus to get variety - to be intercut with the other two in the edit.
@@JOHNEDGINTONDOCUMENTARIES OK John, Thanks for your reply. Sorry I didn't see your notes re camera movements before I posted my comment. Well done and keep up the good work!
It’s like watching a counselling session where you can still sense the various tensions within the band . The body language through out is so telling .
It is rare for a band, that all members were equally talented and got successful solo careers. Lets not forget Anthony Phillips, Genesis first guitar player. He deserves to be recognized. .He recorded many fabulous solo albums as well.
@@LuisCorro-qy1sf Yeah, I was disappointed that Ant was not inducted into the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame along with Tony, Pete, Mike, & Phil. He really should have been included. It makes no sense. Just because the first album didn't sell well? Because the 2nd album didn't go Platinum? Ant was a strong songwriter, and a co-founder. It was Ant's influence which turned Genesis into a live touring band. RRHOF needs to rectify more of their mistakes. Are they trying to save $ on trophy materials?
To me the LAMB was a Epic and Dramatic Album....My favorite songs were ...CARPET CRAWLERS...RIDE THE SCREE...The LAMIA..BACK IN NYC...💯💯💯💯🥰🥰🎤🎧🎹🎹🎹🎹🎹🎸🎸🥁🥁🥁🥁
And then there were 1,085… I find it almost unbelievable that, even with a previous release of this interview, there are so few of us really committing and listening word-for-word to this whole conversation. For those of us who are really touched by the history and music of Genesis (often from a young age), this is spine-tingling stuff. A transitional, tumultuous period for our favorite band, with the inner workings revealed by a conversation that is so open on the part of these guys. Plus some heartwarming chuckles between the guys to smooth it over a little bit. I feel like we are part of a small club who really are staying committed to this thin-and this interview gives us a privileged inner look at a convoluted, painful period for the band. This is just incredible stuff. I’m rambling on a little bit, but hopefully my point is made: gratitude to the filmmaker and interviewer: thank you, John!!!
@@JOHNEDGINTONDOCUMENTARIES glad we have mutual appreciation here. Wish I could donate for your efforts, I am a self funding musician working on some projects right now, but please know that your work is greatly appreciated, you probably know that already.
Thanks for posting this. I have been a fan of Genesis, whatever their lineup was. And, I appreciate their honesty on the things that occurred, without anyone getting upset. Seeing how Phil is physically right now, I'm glad you historically captured this interview with all five of these great musicians.
Thanks! This is wonderful material about the band more than the music. Not that I dislike the music but it’s keenly satisfying to hear how the musicians worked to make such wonderful songs and a truly wonderful concept album.
Art reflects life reflects Art reflects...(ad infinitum)...The Lamb could only have been written with the air of torment and paranoia and distance within the players themselves, making Rael - well - Real! 🤓 I hope, HOPE the 'five' know how important, and vital these early records are to us...'Suppers Ready' was the first song that had me obsessed with this thing called music. I was age 10. A cassette of 'Seconds Out' was given to me, at a time I was just discovering what was to become my career and lifelong love. Listen to SR was a deeply spiritual experience for me, and at that age, utterly lifechanging...Much love to the guys, AND you, John, for these uploads. Best. M.E. ❤
Having discovered Genesis in my teenage youth with Invisible Touch, I worked my way through their catalogue and although enjoying the Gabriel era was firmly in the Collins camp. But in the last few years I've had a rediscovery, everything is familiar as music stays with you for life, but now with more of a musical understanding I've been blown away by Nursery Cryme through Lamb which in my opinion got better with each release, and now Lamb is my favourite Genesis album. Certainly the live version on Archive #1 is something I will never tire of. It's great hearing the guys talking about it. If only there was more footage / recordings from that tour.
Nursery Cryme, Foxtrot, Selling England ..., Lamb ... these are all monster albums. How many bands have a 4 album run that are anywhere nearly as good? The music is these 4 albums is simply magnificent
You can tell Pete and Steve, have dealt with their 'stuff', whereas Mike and Tony have just buried it. So when Pete mentions past tensions, they pop up like old scabs, you see the two tense and almost emotionally curdle. Phil just carried on being Phil lol Its sad that Tony feels the need to justify the band decision (a couple of times) surrounding Pete. Pretty callous really, very little humanity there. Especially then the juxtaposition of when Steve then 8:35 jumps in, with some actual feeling and understanding. 11:00 is amazing. Pete really lays it out. And STILL, Phil and Steve come back with some 'whatboutmes'. Sheesh it truly is, like an old marriage lol
Tony's treatment of Pete when his child was in danger of dying was very crappy. He's an excellent musician and keyboardist, but comes across as arrogant and a bit of a prig. (My assessment is not based on these videos but on many interviews I have seen over the years).
Pete did mention Phil's pissing off to do sessions or whatever. I was surprised he said that. I guess Phil wasn't so key on the Lamb project so he may have had a bit time to do stuff outside. Peter was the key to the Lamb. It was his project in a way and he also had other irons in the fire perhaps to an extent. There's an awful lot of insecurity there, still. Tons of tension, which is a shame because it stopped more discussion of the creative aspect. In the end, it's all water under the bridge and they've all done excellently well. I did think it was mean to "mix Steve out" of Seconds Out. Bad for the fans and the sound and it left some good, strong content out of the album. Should've been a triple with Fly on a Windshield, In that Quiet Earth and maybe a bit more from 1976. Whatever. It's on TH-cam now. This kind of tension remaining puts me off the band's music a bit.
@@ScienceTalkwithJimMassaFrom one of the books, probably the Hugh Fielder one around 1983ish, they'd finished the music before Pete finished the lyrics. He must have been amunder a lot of time pressure and then the dangerously complicated birth of his daughter came. They were probably over budget too by that point. (Plus they mentioned that they started the tour before the album came out, so they were really up against it.) The band was about 200k in the red by the end of the tour.
"Nobody escapes their childhood" - Neil Peart Mike and Tony both admitted they felt bad, Steve had a divorce, Phil says he didn't even know. I suspect the thinking was partly "what are you going to do, breastfeed? Making a great album so you can take care of your family is the best thing to do".
Considering what a dangerous job rock music is, it is incredible that they are all alive. I can't name another major band like that. I actually saw them playing the Lamb. I think it was in 1974 or 5 (if you remember you were not there) it was an incredible show with all the costumes, the effect and played like the album.
This was/is so important for this group of individuals and artists. It's as if they have never spoken before in a sense. Each one in turn, laying bare their wounds and persons. It's as much an insight to the band as it is an insight to 5 individuals finding space to be honest about their collective pasts and all that it was. They will not meet again, in this forum. It's a testimony of their love for each other that this therapy session is so revealing. Well done John, they trusted you and it was well deserved. They can now truly move on. Tony comes out the worst, on several levels - However, I would suspect that he lost and gained the most from this band - and ultimately, had nowhere else to go afterwards. Phil's deference is quite moving, especially as the one who was most commercially successful. However, Gabriel remains humble - yet utterly unmatched creatively and his words carry unrivalled currency way beyond this most creative band of men.
I think in the end, the tension and split moved a creative force in Peter and Steve that produced volumes of incredible material. It was best they parted. Couldn’t see it any other way
Are they suggesting that "It" was not a satisfying finalé to The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway? I wish that I could tell them what an awesome finish it is for me. That piece absolutely blows my mind & gives me chills every time I hear it.
I wonder if Tony's mellowing and inclination towards emotional honesty has been fuelled by the fact that he now knows (and accepts) that he's the LEAST commercially successful solo artist within this group of five? I think this would definitely affect MY attitude if I were placed in his shoes. I'd be extremely sensitive to the court of "public" opinion, because it's the purchasing public who ultimately get to decide if they're going to bless an artist's SOLO endeavours or not, and provide them with a layer of secondary validation which goes above and beyond their "group" output. Was it Tony Smith who said that Genesis was Tony's "solo" career in many ways? I think I understand what he meant by this now, in that....Genesis was the only type of commercial vehicle which was capable of showcasing Tony's talents as a writer and musician to a very large audience, but back in the day, Tony (himself) may not have really realised or accepted this? Pete, Phil, Mike and Steve all went on to prove that they could market themselves as artists "beyond" the Genesis sphere.....and generate some independent commercial demand for their own projects. I guess I'm just saying that Tony's early years inclination towards "getting his own way" as a senior group member...(which is how he saw himself)......must have eventually been greatly eroded by the stark reality that he possessed no real "solo" kudos.....whereas the others DID begin to accrue this with each passing year. I’m not suggesting that the others might have begun to actively try and devalue Tony as a writer, but more than likely, this unspoken truth MAY have just motivated Tony to "wind his neck in" a little whenever they were doing group projects. What's great is that their relationships were all solid enough to withstand these "political" shifts within the group dynamic, and that Tony was intelligent and humble enough to keep on re-appraising his own shifting status as his co-writers began to outgrow him...." commercially" speaking at least. I just get the impression that Mike & Phil (especially) had sincere affection for Tony and knew and accepted the way he was. Not so much with Pete and Steve, however. Steve probably suffered the most from Tony's flexing and "rank" pulling back when the group was still the primary vehicle for all involved. And as for the Tony & Pete relationship, well that was probably already in place and heavily cemented by their juvenile sensibilities as schoolboy friends.....which meant that they were comfortable enough to "row" with eachother at the drop of a hat.....much to the bemusement of those who became latterly involved with the group. Any residual "frostiness" that viewers sense or observe between Tony and Steve, may well be predicated on the fact that these two guys were the LEAST commercially viable musicians and writers amongst their other Genesis peers. Perhaps they BOTH knew this (deep down) and perhaps that's why Tony became so assertive and possessive over the output? At that stage, there was probably only room for ONE dominant writer who was reliant on the "group" as their primary vehicle.....and as far as Tony was concerned.....well......he got there first and held the most provenance. Steve eventually just "read the room" and realised that Tony's attitude was very much "take it or leave it" as far as how the group's collective idea-space was going to be shared out. Whatever personal profile he'd thusfar built for himself in his association with the group was about as big as it was ever likely to get. Would it be "enough?" Well, the passage of time went on to prove that it WAS enough. If Tony had been the one to relinquish his "group" association after Wind and Wuthering, would HE have been able to utilise his Genesis profile as an introductory push towards a successful solo career? I guess we'll never know. Because, solo "toe-dips" aside, Tony has never seemed confident enough to want to totally "sever" the Genesis umbilical and go "all in" with his own solo ambitions. Pete went that way circumstantially. Phil went that way "accidentally" (more or less) Mike went that way "just for fun" (it would seem) Steve went that way out of professional "necessity" Tony TRIED to go that way....but possessed no commercial "charisma" whatsoever. For some reason, the public were not enticed into trying to discover or unwrap him as some kind of artistic "enigma." Because he wasn't one. Not as a solo artist at least. As the brooding, quiet and somewhat handsome Genesis keyboardist however, Tony was worshipped for his finger-blurring solos and deadpan stage presence. That is where he's always been at his best IMHO. As a VITAL, core component within an extremely tight and talented musical collective. Copied by many....but equalled by few.
Very interesting comment but you may be doing what me and others have done and over analyzed it. And maybe mixed up the timeline. For one thing, Tony did walk away from Genesis after Calling All Stations and said he was willing to do that as soon as Phil left, but Mike wanted to go on. You also have to remember that Invisible Touch and We Cant Dance are pretty much the ONLY Genesis albums from 1984 to 1992 and each represent about six months worth of 'jamming' which they claim is how they wrote at that point, and after We Can't Dance, Phil says he was getting more of HIMSELF into the records than anything else. Commerciality is something else entirely. Mike and the Mechanics basically had TWO hits. And Peters big claims to fame are the animation in "Sledgehammer' which meant it was the most played video on MTV. Steve also had no hits, he had some success in GTR, but that was fleeting. Commercial songs have a certain production value to them, and hits have that and more, sometimes no more than really good marketing. There's a guy who marketed Styx who said outrightly that a marketer has six months to 'sell ' a song. In the Pink Floyd doc Andrew King says as managers they learned how much it cost to get a song into the top 20. Albatross was played over and over for a weekend, as was bohemian rhapsody to MAKE them hits. "Lady" by Styx was played every night just before the nine oclock news UNTIL it became a hit. So commerciality is something else entirely, which is why Pink Floyd is held on a pedestal a bit because their MOST famous songs are ten minute pieces too long to be played on radio. But also there is the 'production' of them. I've always said that from "Security" to "So" is WAY more of a sellout than Genesis, those two albums don't even belong on the same PLANET let alone successive albums by the same artists. I'm only being 'critical' there, not 'criticizing' because I certainly listen to 'So' more than Security, but Security is about as close to 'art' as music can get. A lot of that is production. So was produced by Daniel Lanois, who made 'stars' out of U2, and even BIGGER stars out of Bob Dylan, whose light was fading, and Paul Simon and those whatsername brothers, the "yellow moon", Neville brothers, thats it. That guy could churn out hits for EVERYBODY but himself, but his own stuff is phenomenal, just not 'commercial'. Audiences are fickle things and can tell when artists are 'shining it on'. Even in his videos you can tell Tony really doesn't want to be there. The perfect example is 'this is love', which is a bouncy pleasant little song and then you realize, 'this is a british white guy doing a reggae song in 1980'. That either takes serious cajones, or a COMPLETE lack of intuition in how the music industry works, and thats no surprise as Tony admits "I don't know why people do the things they do". Amen. But the saying goes ,in art, you need to bleed. Just look at the lives of most successful musicians. Phil had HOW many wives? And is so fucked up that he's spying on his ex in his house to make sure she doesn't rob him. Roger Waters the same. Dude is on his FIFTH wife who is a third of his age and hot as hell and during covid he gripes that 'the only person I get to see is the missus'. ANd thats when he's JUST married. Totally out of his mind. And frankly, Tony got married and had some money. The fire was pretty much gone. This is a guy who just wanted to be able to make a living doing music, and he was. Phil talks about how after Follow you Follow Me he was amazed that stuff he wrote he could actually get Tony to play. But as an artist, during ALL those years you never know you don't have hits until.....NOW. After CAS he claims he bailed because Mike did, but he says that he wanted to keep working with Ray, who very well could have made a whole new other chapter and brought in a harder edge. If I were Ray I would have made the stipulation that Tony pick up a guitar a little more often:) Anyway, good insights, I think Tony is a smart enough guy to be sick to death of all this "Tony is Genesis" stuff because the other guys seem to be APOLOGIZING for his lack of hits. Hits are commerciality plus banality in about 90% of the cases. Every once in a while a special one comes along that 'lights up the night' but those are rare. I see NOTHING remotely special about 'Invisible Touch". I'd rather listen to 'time table', and I HATE 'time table.' have a good day.
@@mikearchibald744 Thanks, I enjoyed reading YOUR insights which all add to the fun of deconstructing many of the unspoken interpersonal and industry dynamics which must have been navigated by these guys over the years.....with varying degrees of awareness "at the time" I'd wager. When focusing on Tony, I always take him at his word that he was inspired by "commercial" music, and saw this as the benchmark for any aspiring writer. Fate didn't take him this way however, well not immediately at least. But what "fate" did provide for Tony was a musical genre which totally coincided with the halcyon days of synth and keyboard development. Cometh the hour.....cometh the MAN, and Tony, along with the likes of Eno, Wakeman, Parsons, Jarre and Shuttleworth......was DEFINITELY one of those "men." If however, Tony was going to be really "ruthless" (and ambitious) about using the emerging tech he possessed for commercial gain, he's have caught the first train leaving the platform for planet DISCO. Because like it or not, THAT was where all this emerging "prog" tech was ALSO being heavily deployed throughout the seventies. The likes of the Bee-Gees (acoustic 60's background) and Abba (Swedish folk background) were very well placed to just slide into the DISCO marketplace without any accusations of having sold out. I'm just saying that this iron "was hot" and if Tony had opted to strike it in the "seventies" rather than waiting until the eighties, (ok 1979 was his first solo grift I know....).... then he may well have become a force in that genre. By the time he DID strike out however, DISCO....although not strictly "dead" was definitely on the wane. What's always amused me about Genesis, is how they saw "punk" as the emerging genre which was beginning to captivate the (then) modern audiences of the late seventies. They were right about this of-course, but "popular" DISCO'ish or soul-based-dance-music wasn't really affected by this trend. THAT genre remained stable. But, of-course....Genesis were far too masculine, serious, thoughtful and "English" a band to ever try and dip their toe in THAT genre. Enter the eighties (stage left) and we have "Duke" and "Shapes" For me, being a teen-child of the eighties....and being totally sensitised and seduced by the embarrassment of riches that WAS......."eighties music"......the remaining trilogy that was Genesis......definitely delivered the goods here......in spades. But what about Tony? Well, with the eighties came some very expensive, but still very "affordable" synths. If every Tony was going to make a solo mark on the ears of the "eighties" audience, it would have had to have been done using his unique position as "prog god" which had thus enabled HIM to be the first commercial user of any one of the new synths entering the market-place. I'm a keyboard player myself, so this might be colouring my narrative a bit, but it's generally held that whoever gets to own a new synth FIRST.....gets to use some of it's very BEST pre-set voices FIRST, and if you can get YOUR record out before any others.....(and the record is good) ......then YOU get to harvest all of the positive response to that "brand new" sound. Think "Enya" or "T-Pau" with their respective use of the Roland D-50's "string-pluck" or "Pizzagogo" setting. I could furnish this argument with more examples, but the point I'm making is that Tony didn't have any "vocal" gifts....(bless him).....but what he DID HAVE......or at least.....has always had access to, is leading edge synth tech. And I put it to the jury that judiciously used in accordance with the musical zeitgeist of either the SEVENTIES or the eighties.....there WAS a pathway for Tony.....at least as a writer or composer. It begs the question. Could the same guy who wrote "One For The Vine" (1976) ....also have been the same guy who wrote "I feel Love" by Donna Summer? (1977) If the answer to this is a resounding NO.....then I put it to the jury that it wasn't for want of "tech" that this is the case......and that there must be other reasons why somebody like Tony.......who......let's remember.....always WANTED commercial (chart) success......never opted to plough some of the furrows which may have given him this. Perhaps he's just a snob? I don't care. I wouldn't want him any other way!! 😀
@@donnietobasco9791 I can't say I followed all of that, not being a keyboard player. Certainly Tony has always talked about gettting the new tech, despite Steve having apparantly talked him into getting their first mellotron, and having even 'disliked the organ' according to Anthony. Ironic you mention disco because in his interview he mentions one song 'could have been a disco hit' but "I wasnt much into that". LIkewise "this is love" could have been a REGGAE hit, but there are at least two chord changes too many and a time signature change that takes it out of reggae land. I think Tony, like most poeple, wanted BOTH. Wanted big long keyboard solos AND singles. Nothing wrong with that, the model being Mike Oldfield who usualy had an instrumental on one side, and a collection of singles on the other, with varying degrees of success. I don't find the music so mysterious, its the fact htis guy talks so reasonably in interviews and yet at the time they say that he'd literally flip out if you TOUCHED his keyboard. Anthony says while doing Trespass that Peter didn't even have ACCESS to the keyboards. Of course he could have rightly figured that if Peter made up songs on the keyboard AND sang, there would be little point to haveing HIM in the band. But then this is rock and roll, no matter how much fighting, apparantly Sting and whatsisname were at each others throats. The guys in Led Zeppelin and Cream didn't even LIKE one another. So its a whole other world. Like anybody in music no doubt some of his stuff was commercial and some wasn't. Commercial is not 'music', there's a reason they're called 'commercials'. I think on some of his songs he TRIED too hard to be commercial, and thats always a big mistake.
I'm not sure what to make of these dissertations. I'm not sure if I buy these theories or not. Maybe I will reread them at some point. I assume that Tony's mellowing is the result of getting older, having a good, long marriage, and being a dad. Maybe having become wealthy helped too. Worrying about bills from month to month creates so much anxiety. I think that Tony has derived some satisfaction from composing & recording orchestral pieces. I think that he had some success with those recordings. By the way, Steve Hackett may not have sold many millions of records in USA, but he has been quite successful in Britain. I kind of agree with Tony Smith. Tony Banks has had an extraordinarily successful career called Genesis.
@@Trobtwillis Indeed.....the "mellowing" of Tony Banks ought to become a compulsory facet of the national curriculum. Perhaps only ever being upstaged by the basics of "first-aid" in terms of things every student ought to have at least some entry-level knowledge about.....LOL
Lamb was one of my first concerts at the auditorium in chicago November 20th 1974 where the tour started. I thought it was fantastic. I was 12 years old.
0:08 I love the segue from The Lamb into Fly ... Mike's 12 string rhythm and Tony's ambient Mellotron Choir setting the stage for Pete's " & I'm hovering like a fly, waiting for a windshield on a freeway"...BOOM!!!
I think maybe the fans have been right all along, the chief tension seems to be between Pete and Phil. From not knowing, and then declining to hug one another, to Phil's constantly bringing it up, and Pete speaking for him, about the whole 'Phil was getting sick of my getups'. I think there is more truth to it than Phil would like to admit. David Hentchel produced Trick of the Tail and in another interview says that Phil very much wanted to sing. In this interview Pete seems to have enough of that, and says that he and Phil would often sit down and be 'working on their own thing'. I think it could be partly this idea of Phil as the 'reluctant rock star' that Pete seems sick of, when frankly they ALL were that. As Tony says, they loved music, and if they could make a living at it so much the better, and they did, kudos for that, beers all around. The same with Phil, its hardly his fault he wrote good songs that lots of people liked. Its really the fan base that almost demands they be apologetic for expressing themselves musically in a certain way. At the same time some people take the distintion between art and commerce seriously, and think of simplicity as being a sell out. What I find interesting is the lack of critical commentary on the fact that 'the lamb lies down on broadway' seems a pretty patently ANTI american album. The crass commercialization and the 'lamb' as either just a ritual sacrifice, or an allusion to jesus 'lying down' on broadway to be sacrificed with the 'grand parade of lifeless packaging' seems pretty pointedly anti american. Something that I can understand from THEN, but then you had the jingoism of the eighties and the fall of russia into the nineties, so that theme got over shadowed. Today it seems less a 'spiritual journey into the soul' and more a political album that has a lot of the same themes that Pink Floyd later trotted out with The Wall.
I would like to say that LAMB LIES show which we find today in TH-cam was fantastic, however, the LAMB LIES LP had suffered a serious edinting cuts. Although some parts gain better AUDIO quality, many of the show perspectives, inclusions, (mostly that of Peter, Steve and even Phil and sometimes including Mike) were cutt off.
I've never seen such a revealing interview before. Well done to the band members to do this. Obvious body language and vocal hints there. All in all , Slightly uncomfortable, but well done all of them to do this. Hope it healed any old sores. They certainly made some great music as a fivesome.
I think it's a bit sad to hear these guys talking about this album. For them, it was clearly a difficult time. Difficult to make the album, difficult to tour it, they weren't happy with it.. this has spoiled the experience for them, and it means they can't fully appreciate the fact that they have left us with a masterpiece. I was listening to this just yesterday, and still after all these years, I find things that are just so musically great. I don't agree (with Tony Banks) that side 3 and 4 "didn't really work" - they're just different, and they still contain some really strong material. This is a monster of an album, it's just sad the artists themselves don't get to experience that because they were stuck in the middle of producing it. Chin up lads, you knocked it out the park!
Its fascinating 19:30 that Pete points out that we frame The Lamb with (now) absurd reverence, that back then simply wasn't there. Much the same as other doubles like Exile on Main St and others. Its really only in the last 10-15 years these albums have become these sort of untouchable pieces of lalique pottery, that 'real music' fans will verbally assault you for daring to suggest aren't perfect.Which is so far from the truth. I agree with Tony about side 4. Mike is so very quiet during all this. The eternal peacemaker.
I don't know what to make of Tony's opinions on the early Genesis sometimes. How does side three "not deliver"?? The only questionable track is The Waiting Room, though I've heard a live version that was mind-blowing. All other tracks were simply great how they were recorded on the album, perhaps even better on the Archive. The fourth side is maybe a bit weaker, but still great. The fans absolutely want to hear all that music.
Tony's extreme perfectionism coming out here. Sides 3 and 4 are not as good as 1 and 2 BUT 1 and 2 are mind-blowingly good. 3 and 4 are just very good.
There's no law saying a musician has to go have a solo career!! 😰😰 even though Peter Phil and Steve did interesting things on they're own we should all feel blessed to have the best they had to offer us until Steve left after Wind and Wuthering❤❤❤
Es siempre sorprendente constatar las tensiones internas de la banda en la grabación de "The Lamb", para mi, uno de los mejores albumes de la historia dell rock. Igualmente sorprende escuchar a Phill decir que no sentía su autoria, o que se sintió ignorado, cuando su trabajo de batería y percusión es uno de los mejores y mas inspirados trabajos de bateria que uno pueda escuchar everr!!
Genesis - красивая машина, непревзойдённая в своём роде. Если разобрать её на узлы, механизмы, детали и запчасти и восторгаться коленвалом, ставя его в пример распредвалу, морщиться от правого переднего колеса, нахваливая левое заднее, то получится буквально то, что я читаю в комментариях😅 Привет из России/Советского Союза
... and another thing... they shouldn't be so down on the stage show for the Lamb, their plans were probably a bit too ambitious for the technology at the time. Last year I want to see tribute band The Musical Box, perforing the Lamb Lies Down stage show, in its original form, same props, costumes, slide show, lighting etc and I was blown away. If ever you get the chance - check out The Musical Box. They are endorsed by some members of Genesis (who have even commented that TMB probably do a better job!)
Great videos. If I was facilitating, I would have had them on well upholstered leather chairs in a circle. This setting is sterile and like an interrogation.
But it should be the other way around. Steve, by all accounts, was practically deprived of the right to vote and the opportunity to reveal himself among people who said that his departure had practically no effect on anything. On top of everything else, they obviously deliberately "drowned" his guitar in the mix of "Seconds Out". And they are also offended by something else. What a strange attitude.
@@arkadiy6031 And it is the irony today that it is Steve who is still successfully waving the Genesis-flag! He is the only true Genesis-member left. The only one that proudly stands by what the group has achieved in its prime years. For us "old" fans Steve now is the true heart and soul of Genesis!
Mike and Tony has always been this way because of their background. Upper class and private school. It's just the attitude. I don't think they have a problem with Steve now. Phil have the same background as Steve, but he was/is a very outgoing person. Steve is more quiet and introvert.
@@bent2Well, Peter has the same background of Tony and Mike... The problem is that five composers with strong personalities can't fit in a group, due to lack of physical space, as Tony himself has said several times. Tony and Steve (and Peter) are the ones who hardly give up their ideas. And in fact the two left, the three of them managed to manage themselves better, even if it's clear which of the three composed the song.
@@maxperli But I can say that Mike seems more grumpy and uptight in his later life. He used smile more and seemed relaxed when he was younger. He rarely smiles now. Maybe he was more jolly when he was younger because he smoked alot of weed. I dunno 🤷♂️
I didn't get that, they've all admitted to being unsympathetic. Tony you can't tell whether he's blowing it off with "well thats our upbringing" or more likely "yes, we've done interviews before, I've admitted I was a prick, can we move on?" At the same time I don't get how he was going off to Hollywood if that was going on. The body language to me was "oh geez can we get this over with". In hindsight I think I'd be fine if they had come in saying "can we not talk about Pete and Steve leaving yet again". I'd rather see them all comfortable and joking about their time together not feeling like "I'm glad I dont work with those bastards again" at the end.
@@67philipo Thanks Tony. Time for your tablets now… Personally I’m grateful to you for not allowing Phil to play piano in Genesis, as you would have completely spoilt all his wonderful solo work which is right at the top of the ‘Genesis’ work along with virtually all Gabriel’s output. How you must have revered the work of people like Greenfield, Numan, Jarre etc who came through and established a deserved loyal fan base based on their ideas and musical facility whilst you were at your ‘peak’.
![เปิดคำทำนาย นอสตราดามุส - บาบา วานก้า ปี 2025 คนทั่วโลกต้องเจออะไรบ้าง? | แฉ 11 ธ.ค. 67 [2/3] |GMM25](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/xmTIKWJUMPM/mqdefault.jpg)
**If you love this stuff, do support me with a subscription (free).
**PLEASE ALSO CONSIDER hitting the SUPERTHANKS $ button under the video to send me a small donation!
(Every $/£ donated will get fed back into my work - retrieving and uploading the content you love .) **
I think you need to revise your camera setup for such important interviews and recordings. Maybe at least one camera fixed on a long shot of the group you can cut to whilst framing the close-ups and maybe 2 cameras for the closeups. It looks to me like you're trying to do the whole interview with just one camera which is almost impossible for an ad-hoc response shoot. Even a GoPro on a tripod will work, or possibly a later iPhone, but be careful of crossing the line. You can edit it all together with multicam edit software such as Lightworks, Final Cut Pro or similar.
@@125brat This is on the video info NOTES RE CAMERA ISSUES
Why is the camera moving so much? There were 3 cameras. you’re only seeing the “ rushes” footage from one of them. The camera operator is changing shots and focus to get variety - to be intercut with the other two in the edit.
@@JOHNEDGINTONDOCUMENTARIES OK John, Thanks for your reply. Sorry I didn't see your notes re camera movements before I posted my comment. Well done and keep up the good work!
Man what a rare thing to see a band mates still getting along years after they went their separate ways.
It’s like watching a counselling session where you can still sense the various tensions within the band . The body language through out is so telling .
Tony Banks is such a dictator, all these decades later he still doesn't even want Steve Hackett to have a voice. Watch Banks as Steve talks.
Family Therapy
"You stole my protractor back at Charterhouse!"
🎹😠🗯️ 🤨🎸
"Where did the story for The Lamb come from?"
35 minutes later....
"....anyone who's toured knows the audience wants....":
It is rare for a band, that all members were equally talented and got successful solo careers. Lets not forget Anthony Phillips, Genesis first guitar player. He deserves to be recognized. .He recorded many fabulous solo albums as well.
I agree. My two-part interview with Anthony is on this channel.
@@LuisCorro-qy1sf
Yeah, I was disappointed that Ant was not inducted into the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame along with Tony, Pete, Mike, & Phil. He really should have been included. It makes no sense.
Just because the first album didn't sell well? Because the 2nd album didn't go Platinum? Ant was a strong songwriter, and a co-founder. It was Ant's influence which turned Genesis into a live touring band.
RRHOF needs to rectify more of their mistakes. Are they trying to save $ on trophy materials?
The greatest band of all time on my list.
To me the LAMB was a Epic and Dramatic Album....My favorite songs were ...CARPET CRAWLERS...RIDE THE SCREE...The LAMIA..BACK IN NYC...💯💯💯💯🥰🥰🎤🎧🎹🎹🎹🎹🎹🎸🎸🥁🥁🥁🥁
Very nice. I couldn't imagine sitting in your seat, facing these legends in person. Great work
And then there were 1,085… I find it almost unbelievable that, even with a previous release of this interview, there are so few of us really committing and listening word-for-word to this whole conversation.
For those of us who are really touched by the history and music of Genesis (often from a young age), this is spine-tingling stuff. A transitional, tumultuous period for our favorite band, with the inner workings revealed by a conversation that is so open on the part of these guys.
Plus some heartwarming chuckles between the guys to smooth it over a little bit.
I feel like we are part of a small club who really are staying committed to this thin-and this interview gives us a privileged inner look at a convoluted, painful period for the band. This is just incredible stuff. I’m rambling on a little bit, but hopefully my point is made: gratitude to the filmmaker and interviewer: thank you, John!!!
I love your wonderfully “rambling” comment. Thank you !
@@JOHNEDGINTONDOCUMENTARIES glad we have mutual appreciation here. Wish I could donate for your efforts, I am a self funding musician working on some projects right now, but please know that your work is greatly appreciated, you probably know that already.
Thanks for posting this. I have been a fan of Genesis, whatever their lineup was. And, I appreciate their honesty on the things that occurred, without anyone getting upset. Seeing how Phil is physically right now, I'm glad you historically captured this interview with all five of these great musicians.
I cannot thank you enough for making this moment possible for all of us fans to enjoy! Thank you John!
Thanks! This is wonderful material about the band more than the music. Not that I dislike the music but it’s keenly satisfying to hear how the musicians worked to make such wonderful songs and a truly wonderful concept album.
Cheers ! Very much appreciated! Love your take on this too.
Art reflects life reflects Art reflects...(ad infinitum)...The Lamb could only have been written with the air of torment and paranoia and distance within the players themselves, making Rael - well - Real! 🤓
I hope, HOPE the 'five' know how important, and vital these early records are to us...'Suppers Ready' was the first song that had me obsessed with this thing called music. I was age 10. A cassette of 'Seconds Out' was given to me, at a time I was just discovering what was to become my career and lifelong love. Listen to SR was a deeply spiritual experience for me, and at that age, utterly lifechanging...Much love to the guys, AND you, John, for these uploads. Best. M.E. ❤
I love this, very interesting, the Lamb to me is a masterpiece, brilliant piece of music.
Another Favorite GENESIS album was SELLING ENGLAND BY THE POUND...💯💯💯💯💜💜💜💜🎧🎤🎹🎹🎹🎹🥁🥁🥁🥁🎸🎸
Thank you so much for sharing these interviews !!
Absolutely fantastic have a wonderful day John ❤❤❤❤❤❤😊😊😊😊😊😊😊
Wonderful ❤
Having discovered Genesis in my teenage youth with Invisible Touch, I worked my way through their catalogue and although enjoying the Gabriel era was firmly in the Collins camp. But in the last few years I've had a rediscovery, everything is familiar as music stays with you for life, but now with more of a musical understanding I've been blown away by Nursery Cryme through Lamb which in my opinion got better with each release, and now Lamb is my favourite Genesis album. Certainly the live version on Archive #1 is something I will never tire of. It's great hearing the guys talking about it. If only there was more footage / recordings from that tour.
Nursery Cryme, Foxtrot, Selling England ..., Lamb ... these are all monster albums. How many bands have a 4 album run that are anywhere nearly as good? The music is these 4 albums is simply magnificent
Thank you for these uncut interviews. Absolute gold dust for us fans ❤
My pleasure!
These new versions are wonderful - I'm loving all of the extra detail. Thanks once more, John!
You can tell Pete and Steve, have dealt with their 'stuff', whereas Mike and Tony have just buried it. So when Pete mentions past tensions, they pop up like old scabs, you see the two tense and almost emotionally curdle. Phil just carried on being Phil lol
Its sad that Tony feels the need to justify the band decision (a couple of times) surrounding Pete. Pretty callous really, very little humanity there. Especially then the juxtaposition of when Steve then 8:35 jumps in, with some actual feeling and understanding.
11:00 is amazing. Pete really lays it out. And STILL, Phil and Steve come back with some 'whatboutmes'. Sheesh it truly is, like an old marriage lol
Tony's treatment of Pete when his child was in danger of dying was very crappy. He's an excellent musician and keyboardist, but comes across as arrogant and a bit of a prig. (My assessment is not based on these videos but on many interviews I have seen over the years).
Pete did mention Phil's pissing off to do sessions or whatever. I was surprised he said that. I guess Phil wasn't so key on the Lamb project so he may have had a bit time to do stuff outside. Peter was the key to the Lamb. It was his project in a way and he also had other irons in the fire perhaps to an extent. There's an awful lot of insecurity there, still. Tons of tension, which is a shame because it stopped more discussion of the creative aspect.
In the end, it's all water under the bridge and they've all done excellently well.
I did think it was mean to "mix Steve out" of Seconds Out. Bad for the fans and the sound and it left some good, strong content out of the album. Should've been a triple with Fly on a Windshield, In that Quiet Earth and maybe a bit more from 1976. Whatever. It's on TH-cam now. This kind of tension remaining puts me off the band's music a bit.
@@ScienceTalkwithJimMassaFrom one of the books, probably the Hugh Fielder one around 1983ish, they'd finished the music before Pete finished the lyrics. He must have been amunder a lot of time pressure and then the dangerously complicated birth of his daughter came. They were probably over budget too by that point. (Plus they mentioned that they started the tour before the album came out, so they were really up against it.) The band was about 200k in the red by the end of the tour.
"Nobody escapes their childhood" - Neil Peart
Mike and Tony both admitted they felt bad, Steve had a divorce, Phil says he didn't even know. I suspect the thinking was partly "what are you going to do, breastfeed? Making a great album so you can take care of your family is the best thing to do".
IMO the best album of all time. Had a huge impact upon me at age 15, something I will never ever forget.
Considering what a dangerous job rock music is, it is incredible that they are all alive. I can't name another major band like that. I actually saw them playing the Lamb. I think it was in 1974 or 5 (if you remember you were not there) it was an incredible show with all the costumes, the effect and played like the album.
This was/is so important for this group of individuals and artists. It's as if they have never spoken before in a sense. Each one in turn, laying bare their wounds and persons. It's as much an insight to the band as it is an insight to 5 individuals finding space to be honest about their collective pasts and all that it was. They will not meet again, in this forum. It's a testimony of their love for each other that this therapy session is so revealing. Well done John, they trusted you and it was well deserved. They can now truly move on. Tony comes out the worst, on several levels - However, I would suspect that he lost and gained the most from this band - and ultimately, had nowhere else to go afterwards. Phil's deference is quite moving, especially as the one who was most commercially successful. However, Gabriel remains humble - yet utterly unmatched creatively and his words carry unrivalled currency way beyond this most creative band of men.
23:40 That interesting bit got cut off. It gets mentioned in Hugh Fielder's Book of Genesis.
What exactly ? Please quote it for me.
I think in the end, the tension and split moved a creative force in Peter and Steve that produced volumes of incredible material. It was best they parted. Couldn’t see it any other way
Are they suggesting that "It" was not a satisfying finalé to The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway? I wish that I could tell them what an awesome finish it is for me. That piece absolutely blows my mind & gives me chills every time I hear it.
Yes it's excellent and should have been a single. Obvious really surely but not to the band or management.
I wonder if Tony's mellowing and inclination towards emotional honesty has been fuelled by the fact that he now knows (and accepts) that he's the LEAST commercially successful solo artist within this group of five? I think this would definitely affect MY attitude if I were placed in his shoes. I'd be extremely sensitive to the court of "public" opinion, because it's the purchasing public who ultimately get to decide if they're going to bless an artist's SOLO endeavours or not, and provide them with a layer of secondary validation which goes above and beyond their "group" output.
Was it Tony Smith who said that Genesis was Tony's "solo" career in many ways? I think I understand what he meant by this now, in that....Genesis was the only type of commercial vehicle which was capable of showcasing Tony's talents as a writer and musician to a very large audience, but back in the day, Tony (himself) may not have really realised or accepted this?
Pete, Phil, Mike and Steve all went on to prove that they could market themselves as artists "beyond" the Genesis sphere.....and generate some independent commercial demand for their own projects.
I guess I'm just saying that Tony's early years inclination towards "getting his own way" as a senior group member...(which is how he saw himself)......must have eventually been greatly eroded by the stark reality that he possessed no real "solo" kudos.....whereas the others DID begin to accrue this with each passing year.
I’m not suggesting that the others might have begun to actively try and devalue Tony as a writer, but more than likely, this unspoken truth MAY have just motivated Tony to "wind his neck in" a little whenever they were doing group projects.
What's great is that their relationships were all solid enough to withstand these "political" shifts within the group dynamic, and that Tony was intelligent and humble enough to keep on re-appraising his own shifting status as his co-writers began to outgrow him...." commercially" speaking at least.
I just get the impression that Mike & Phil (especially) had sincere affection for Tony and knew and accepted the way he was.
Not so much with Pete and Steve, however.
Steve probably suffered the most from Tony's flexing and "rank" pulling back when the group was still the primary vehicle for all involved.
And as for the Tony & Pete relationship, well that was probably already in place and heavily cemented by their juvenile sensibilities as schoolboy friends.....which meant that they were comfortable enough to "row" with eachother at the drop of a hat.....much to the bemusement of those who became latterly involved with the group.
Any residual "frostiness" that viewers sense or observe between Tony and Steve, may well be predicated on the fact that these two guys were the LEAST commercially viable musicians and writers amongst their other Genesis peers.
Perhaps they BOTH knew this (deep down) and perhaps that's why Tony became so assertive and possessive over the output?
At that stage, there was probably only room for ONE dominant writer who was reliant on the "group" as their primary vehicle.....and as far as Tony was concerned.....well......he got there first and held the most provenance.
Steve eventually just "read the room" and realised that Tony's attitude was very much "take it or leave it" as far as how the group's collective idea-space was going to be shared out.
Whatever personal profile he'd thusfar built for himself in his association with the group was about as big as it was ever likely to get.
Would it be "enough?"
Well, the passage of time went on to prove that it WAS enough.
If Tony had been the one to relinquish his "group" association after Wind and Wuthering, would HE have been able to utilise his Genesis profile as an introductory push towards a successful solo career?
I guess we'll never know.
Because, solo "toe-dips" aside, Tony has never seemed confident enough to want to totally "sever" the Genesis umbilical and go "all in" with his own solo ambitions.
Pete went that way circumstantially.
Phil went that way "accidentally" (more or less)
Mike went that way "just for fun" (it would seem)
Steve went that way out of professional "necessity"
Tony TRIED to go that way....but possessed no commercial "charisma" whatsoever. For some reason, the public were not enticed into trying to discover or unwrap him as some kind of artistic "enigma."
Because he wasn't one.
Not as a solo artist at least.
As the brooding, quiet and somewhat handsome Genesis keyboardist however, Tony was worshipped for his finger-blurring solos and deadpan stage presence.
That is where he's always been at his best IMHO.
As a VITAL, core component within an extremely tight and talented musical collective.
Copied by many....but equalled by few.
Very interesting comment but you may be doing what me and others have done and over analyzed it. And maybe mixed up the timeline. For one thing, Tony did walk away from Genesis after Calling All Stations and said he was willing to do that as soon as Phil left, but Mike wanted to go on.
You also have to remember that Invisible Touch and We Cant Dance are pretty much the ONLY Genesis albums from 1984 to 1992 and each represent about six months worth of 'jamming' which they claim is how they wrote at that point, and after We Can't Dance, Phil says he was getting more of HIMSELF into the records than anything else.
Commerciality is something else entirely. Mike and the Mechanics basically had TWO hits. And Peters big claims to fame are the animation in "Sledgehammer' which meant it was the most played video on MTV. Steve also had no hits, he had some success in GTR, but that was fleeting. Commercial songs have a certain production value to them, and hits have that and more, sometimes no more than really good marketing. There's a guy who marketed Styx who said outrightly that a marketer has six months to 'sell ' a song. In the Pink Floyd doc Andrew King says as managers they learned how much it cost to get a song into the top 20. Albatross was played over and over for a weekend, as was bohemian rhapsody to MAKE them hits. "Lady" by Styx was played every night just before the nine oclock news UNTIL it became a hit.
So commerciality is something else entirely, which is why Pink Floyd is held on a pedestal a bit because their MOST famous songs are ten minute pieces too long to be played on radio.
But also there is the 'production' of them. I've always said that from "Security" to "So" is WAY more of a sellout than Genesis, those two albums don't even belong on the same PLANET let alone successive albums by the same artists. I'm only being 'critical' there, not 'criticizing' because I certainly listen to 'So' more than Security, but Security is about as close to 'art' as music can get.
A lot of that is production. So was produced by Daniel Lanois, who made 'stars' out of U2, and even BIGGER stars out of Bob Dylan, whose light was fading, and Paul Simon and those whatsername brothers, the "yellow moon", Neville brothers, thats it. That guy could churn out hits for EVERYBODY but himself, but his own stuff is phenomenal, just not 'commercial'.
Audiences are fickle things and can tell when artists are 'shining it on'. Even in his videos you can tell Tony really doesn't want to be there. The perfect example is 'this is love', which is a bouncy pleasant little song and then you realize, 'this is a british white guy doing a reggae song in 1980'. That either takes serious cajones, or a COMPLETE lack of intuition in how the music industry works, and thats no surprise as Tony admits "I don't know why people do the things they do". Amen. But the saying goes ,in art, you need to bleed. Just look at the lives of most successful musicians. Phil had HOW many wives? And is so fucked up that he's spying on his ex in his house to make sure she doesn't rob him. Roger Waters the same. Dude is on his FIFTH wife who is a third of his age and hot as hell and during covid he gripes that 'the only person I get to see is the missus'. ANd thats when he's JUST married. Totally out of his mind.
And frankly, Tony got married and had some money. The fire was pretty much gone. This is a guy who just wanted to be able to make a living doing music, and he was. Phil talks about how after Follow you Follow Me he was amazed that stuff he wrote he could actually get Tony to play. But as an artist, during ALL those years you never know you don't have hits until.....NOW. After CAS he claims he bailed because Mike did, but he says that he wanted to keep working with Ray, who very well could have made a whole new other chapter and brought in a harder edge. If I were Ray I would have made the stipulation that Tony pick up a guitar a little more often:)
Anyway, good insights, I think Tony is a smart enough guy to be sick to death of all this "Tony is Genesis" stuff because the other guys seem to be APOLOGIZING for his lack of hits. Hits are commerciality plus banality in about 90% of the cases. Every once in a while a special one comes along that 'lights up the night' but those are rare. I see NOTHING remotely special about 'Invisible Touch". I'd rather listen to 'time table', and I HATE 'time table.' have a good day.
@@mikearchibald744 Thanks, I enjoyed reading YOUR insights which all add to the fun of deconstructing many of the unspoken interpersonal and industry dynamics which must have been navigated by these guys over the years.....with varying degrees of awareness "at the time" I'd wager.
When focusing on Tony, I always take him at his word that he was inspired by "commercial" music, and saw this as the benchmark for any aspiring writer. Fate didn't take him this way however, well not immediately at least. But what "fate" did provide for Tony was a musical genre which totally coincided with the halcyon days of synth and keyboard development. Cometh the hour.....cometh the MAN, and Tony, along with the likes of Eno, Wakeman, Parsons, Jarre and Shuttleworth......was DEFINITELY one of those "men."
If however, Tony was going to be really "ruthless" (and ambitious) about using the emerging tech he possessed for commercial gain, he's have caught the first train leaving the platform for planet DISCO.
Because like it or not, THAT was where all this emerging "prog" tech was ALSO being heavily deployed throughout the seventies.
The likes of the Bee-Gees (acoustic 60's background) and Abba (Swedish folk background) were very well placed to just slide into the DISCO marketplace without any accusations of having sold out.
I'm just saying that this iron "was hot" and if Tony had opted to strike it in the "seventies" rather than waiting until the eighties, (ok 1979 was his first solo grift I know....).... then he may well have become a force in that genre.
By the time he DID strike out however, DISCO....although not strictly "dead" was definitely on the wane.
What's always amused me about Genesis, is how they saw "punk" as the emerging genre which was beginning to captivate the (then) modern audiences of the late seventies. They were right about this of-course, but "popular" DISCO'ish or soul-based-dance-music wasn't really affected by this trend.
THAT genre remained stable.
But, of-course....Genesis were far too masculine, serious, thoughtful and "English" a band to ever try and dip their toe in THAT genre.
Enter the eighties (stage left) and we have "Duke" and "Shapes"
For me, being a teen-child of the eighties....and being totally sensitised and seduced by the embarrassment of riches that WAS......."eighties music"......the remaining trilogy that was Genesis......definitely delivered the goods here......in spades.
But what about Tony?
Well, with the eighties came some very expensive, but still very "affordable" synths.
If every Tony was going to make a solo mark on the ears of the "eighties" audience, it would have had to have been done using his unique position as "prog god" which had thus enabled HIM to be the first commercial user of any one of the new synths entering the market-place.
I'm a keyboard player myself, so this might be colouring my narrative a bit, but it's generally held that whoever gets to own a new synth FIRST.....gets to use some of it's very BEST pre-set voices FIRST, and if you can get YOUR record out before any others.....(and the record is good) ......then YOU get to harvest all of the positive response to that "brand new" sound.
Think "Enya" or "T-Pau" with their respective use of the Roland D-50's "string-pluck" or "Pizzagogo" setting.
I could furnish this argument with more examples, but the point I'm making is that Tony didn't have any "vocal" gifts....(bless him).....but what he DID HAVE......or at least.....has always had access to, is leading edge synth tech.
And I put it to the jury that judiciously used in accordance with the musical zeitgeist of either the SEVENTIES or the eighties.....there WAS a pathway for Tony.....at least as a writer or composer.
It begs the question.
Could the same guy who wrote "One For The Vine" (1976) ....also have been the same guy who wrote "I feel Love" by Donna Summer? (1977)
If the answer to this is a resounding NO.....then I put it to the jury that it wasn't for want of "tech" that this is the case......and that there must be other reasons why somebody like Tony.......who......let's remember.....always WANTED commercial (chart) success......never opted to plough some of the furrows which may have given him this.
Perhaps he's just a snob?
I don't care.
I wouldn't want him any other way!!
😀
@@donnietobasco9791 I can't say I followed all of that, not being a keyboard player. Certainly Tony has always talked about gettting the new tech, despite Steve having apparantly talked him into getting their first mellotron, and having even 'disliked the organ' according to Anthony.
Ironic you mention disco because in his interview he mentions one song 'could have been a disco hit' but "I wasnt much into that". LIkewise "this is love" could have been a REGGAE hit, but there are at least two chord changes too many and a time signature change that takes it out of reggae land.
I think Tony, like most poeple, wanted BOTH. Wanted big long keyboard solos AND singles. Nothing wrong with that, the model being Mike Oldfield who usualy had an instrumental on one side, and a collection of singles on the other, with varying degrees of success.
I don't find the music so mysterious, its the fact htis guy talks so reasonably in interviews and yet at the time they say that he'd literally flip out if you TOUCHED his keyboard. Anthony says while doing Trespass that Peter didn't even have ACCESS to the keyboards. Of course he could have rightly figured that if Peter made up songs on the keyboard AND sang, there would be little point to haveing HIM in the band.
But then this is rock and roll, no matter how much fighting, apparantly Sting and whatsisname were at each others throats. The guys in Led Zeppelin and Cream didn't even LIKE one another. So its a whole other world.
Like anybody in music no doubt some of his stuff was commercial and some wasn't. Commercial is not 'music', there's a reason they're called 'commercials'. I think on some of his songs he TRIED too hard to be commercial, and thats always a big mistake.
I'm not sure what to make of these dissertations. I'm not sure if I buy these theories or not. Maybe I will reread them at some point.
I assume that Tony's mellowing is the result of getting older, having a good, long marriage, and being a dad. Maybe having become wealthy helped too. Worrying about bills from month to month creates so much anxiety.
I think that Tony has derived some satisfaction from composing & recording orchestral pieces. I think that he had some success with those recordings.
By the way, Steve Hackett may not have sold many millions of records in USA, but he has been quite successful in Britain.
I kind of agree with Tony Smith. Tony Banks has had an extraordinarily successful career called Genesis.
@@Trobtwillis Indeed.....the "mellowing" of Tony Banks ought to become a compulsory facet of the national curriculum. Perhaps only ever being upstaged by the basics of "first-aid" in terms of things every student ought to have at least some entry-level knowledge about.....LOL
“This is the first time we’ve all been together talking since…we were all…talking…”
- Phil Collins,
very astutely…
Lamb was one of my first concerts at the auditorium in chicago November 20th 1974 where the tour started. I thought it was fantastic. I was 12 years old.
🖤
had to give fly on a windshield/broadway melody of 1974 a listen after that
0:08 I love the segue from The Lamb into Fly ... Mike's 12 string rhythm and Tony's ambient Mellotron Choir setting the stage for Pete's " & I'm hovering like a fly, waiting for a windshield on a freeway"...BOOM!!!
John thanks. Is this a first time release? Loving this.
No but previous one was blocked by a copyright claim so I re-edited it to take that on board
I think maybe the fans have been right all along, the chief tension seems to be between Pete and Phil. From not knowing, and then declining to hug one another, to Phil's constantly bringing it up, and Pete speaking for him, about the whole 'Phil was getting sick of my getups'. I think there is more truth to it than Phil would like to admit. David Hentchel produced Trick of the Tail and in another interview says that Phil very much wanted to sing. In this interview Pete seems to have enough of that, and says that he and Phil would often sit down and be 'working on their own thing'. I think it could be partly this idea of Phil as the 'reluctant rock star' that Pete seems sick of, when frankly they ALL were that. As Tony says, they loved music, and if they could make a living at it so much the better, and they did, kudos for that, beers all around. The same with Phil, its hardly his fault he wrote good songs that lots of people liked. Its really the fan base that almost demands they be apologetic for expressing themselves musically in a certain way. At the same time some people take the distintion between art and commerce seriously, and think of simplicity as being a sell out.
What I find interesting is the lack of critical commentary on the fact that 'the lamb lies down on broadway' seems a pretty patently ANTI american album. The crass commercialization and the 'lamb' as either just a ritual sacrifice, or an allusion to jesus 'lying down' on broadway to be sacrificed with the 'grand parade of lifeless packaging' seems pretty pointedly anti american. Something that I can understand from THEN, but then you had the jingoism of the eighties and the fall of russia into the nineties, so that theme got over shadowed. Today it seems less a 'spiritual journey into the soul' and more a political album that has a lot of the same themes that Pink Floyd later trotted out with The Wall.
I would like to say that LAMB LIES show which we find today in TH-cam was fantastic, however, the LAMB LIES LP had suffered a serious edinting cuts. Although some parts gain better AUDIO quality, many of the show perspectives, inclusions, (mostly that of Peter, Steve and even Phil and sometimes including Mike) were cutt off.
So British in as far as manners and disposition, so articulate and to the point. No arm-waving.
I've never seen such a revealing interview before. Well done to the band members to do this. Obvious body language and vocal hints there. All in all , Slightly uncomfortable, but well done all of them to do this. Hope it healed any old sores. They certainly made some great music as a fivesome.
Wow ! Look at Steve’s face at 12.40 when Tony talks . He quite obviously doesn’t agree with his comment .
I think it's a bit sad to hear these guys talking about this album. For them, it was clearly a difficult time. Difficult to make the album, difficult to tour it, they weren't happy with it.. this has spoiled the experience for them, and it means they can't fully appreciate the fact that they have left us with a masterpiece. I was listening to this just yesterday, and still after all these years, I find things that are just so musically great.
I don't agree (with Tony Banks) that side 3 and 4 "didn't really work" - they're just different, and they still contain some really strong material. This is a monster of an album, it's just sad the artists themselves don't get to experience that because they were stuck in the middle of producing it.
Chin up lads, you knocked it out the park!
But GENESIS had a Strong ITALIAN FAN BASE .!!💯💯💯💯🥰🥰🥰🥰
3 genius musicians and 2 bank managers.
Lol
As for the naked girls, that was Seattle. I was there.
Its fascinating 19:30 that Pete points out that we frame The Lamb with (now) absurd reverence, that back then simply wasn't there. Much the same as other doubles like Exile on Main St and others. Its really only in the last 10-15 years these albums have become these sort of untouchable pieces of lalique pottery, that 'real music' fans will verbally assault you for daring to suggest aren't perfect.Which is so far from the truth. I agree with Tony about side 4.
Mike is so very quiet during all this. The eternal peacemaker.
I don't know what to make of Tony's opinions on the early Genesis sometimes. How does side three "not deliver"?? The only questionable track is The Waiting Room, though I've heard a live version that was mind-blowing. All other tracks were simply great how they were recorded on the album, perhaps even better on the Archive. The fourth side is maybe a bit weaker, but still great. The fans absolutely want to hear all that music.
A real leader always choose to sit at the centre ...😏😎
This is a mislabeled therapy session between the guys
7:23 Phil steals the conversation
Tony's extreme perfectionism coming out here. Sides 3 and 4 are not as good as 1 and 2 BUT 1 and 2 are mind-blowingly good. 3 and 4 are just very good.
There's no law saying a musician has to go have a solo career!! 😰😰 even though Peter Phil and Steve did interesting things on they're own we should all feel blessed to have the best they had to offer us until Steve left after Wind and Wuthering❤❤❤
Es siempre sorprendente constatar las tensiones internas de la banda en la grabación de "The Lamb", para mi, uno de los mejores albumes de la historia dell rock. Igualmente sorprende escuchar a Phill decir que no sentía su autoria, o que se sintió ignorado, cuando su trabajo de batería y percusión es uno de los mejores y mas inspirados trabajos de bateria que uno pueda escuchar everr!!
Genesis - красивая машина, непревзойдённая в своём роде. Если разобрать её на узлы, механизмы, детали и запчасти и восторгаться коленвалом, ставя его в пример распредвалу, морщиться от правого переднего колеса, нахваливая левое заднее, то получится буквально то, что я читаю в комментариях😅 Привет из России/Советского Союза
👍👍
Wey
Weird camera work.
Per me non si sono mai riconciliati definitivamente ci sono ancora rivendicazioni
... and another thing... they shouldn't be so down on the stage show for the Lamb, their plans were probably a bit too ambitious for the technology at the time. Last year I want to see tribute band The Musical Box, perforing the Lamb Lies Down stage show, in its original form, same props, costumes, slide show, lighting etc and I was blown away. If ever you get the chance - check out The Musical Box. They are endorsed by some members of Genesis (who have even commented that TMB probably do a better job!)
There's always been Ethel....
Jacob wake up you gotta tidy your room now
@@JoeSmith-eo7rc Then Mr Lewis, isnt time you were out on your own ?
Great videos. If I was facilitating, I would have had them on well upholstered leather chairs in a circle. This setting is sterile and like an interrogation.
"The New Jerusalem and blah, blah, blah." Oh, Pete ...
Tony and Mike's resentment towards Steve is very evident. They never look him in the face and avoid talking to him. Zero empathy.
But it should be the other way around. Steve, by all accounts, was practically deprived of the right to vote and the opportunity to reveal himself among people who said that his departure had practically no effect on anything. On top of everything else, they obviously deliberately "drowned" his guitar in the mix of "Seconds Out". And they are also offended by something else. What a strange attitude.
@@arkadiy6031 And it is the irony today that it is Steve who is still successfully waving the Genesis-flag! He is the only true Genesis-member left. The only one that proudly stands by what the group has achieved in its prime years. For us "old" fans Steve now is the true heart and soul of Genesis!
Mike and Tony has always been this way because of their background. Upper class and private school. It's just the attitude. I don't think they have a problem with Steve now. Phil have the same background as Steve, but he was/is a very outgoing person. Steve is more quiet and introvert.
@@bent2Well, Peter has the same background of Tony and Mike... The problem is that five composers with strong personalities can't fit in a group, due to lack of physical space, as Tony himself has said several times. Tony and Steve (and Peter) are the ones who hardly give up their ideas. And in fact the two left, the three of them managed to manage themselves better, even if it's clear which of the three composed the song.
@@maxperli But I can say that Mike seems more grumpy and uptight in his later life. He used smile more and seemed relaxed when he was younger. He rarely smiles now. Maybe he was more jolly when he was younger because he smoked alot of weed. I dunno 🤷♂️
Interesting to see when Pete talks about his priorities to his family the rest of the band's body language comes off as "he's talking BS"
I didn't get that, they've all admitted to being unsympathetic. Tony you can't tell whether he's blowing it off with "well thats our upbringing" or more likely "yes, we've done interviews before, I've admitted I was a prick, can we move on?"
At the same time I don't get how he was going off to Hollywood if that was going on. The body language to me was "oh geez can we get this over with".
In hindsight I think I'd be fine if they had come in saying "can we not talk about Pete and Steve leaving yet again". I'd rather see them all comfortable and joking about their time together not feeling like "I'm glad I dont work with those bastards again" at the end.
Camera work not good
Please read the video info on this which explains it
Enjoyable, nostalgic, and at times…a wee bit cringeworthy with residual interpersonal tension…
A lot less than 95% of the rock bands in history.
Rutherford ‘s stiff upper lip
It would seem from this Phil and Peter are very anti
Steve the outsider. Tony full of himself but zero contribution musically, Phil and Peter the true icons, both brilliant.
Sorry? Tony zero contribution musically? That’s a very new one…
@@glavius67 is that you tony?
Tony? No contribution? You need your head examined by a proctologist.
What? Tony is the music
@@67philipo Thanks Tony. Time for your tablets now…
Personally I’m grateful to you for not allowing Phil to play piano in Genesis, as you would have completely spoilt all his wonderful solo work which is right at the top of the ‘Genesis’ work along with virtually all Gabriel’s output.
How you must have revered the work of people like Greenfield, Numan, Jarre etc who came through and established a deserved loyal fan base based on their ideas and musical facility whilst you were at your ‘peak’.
The camera work is awful
Please read the explanation which is below the video.
And: wrong! The camera work captures the intensity of this conversation.
This interviewer is so hard to listen to. Not just the audio but his speaking.
Family Therapy
"You stole my protractor back at Charterhouse!"
🎹😠🗯️ 🤨
🎸