I think she only said that in the movie, not in the book. Of course, since Suzanne Collins was involved in writing the script the fact that it’s not in the book doesn’t take any weight away from its meaning imo.
@@tephwilliams she does say it in the books and we get her stream of thoughts as she watches Haymitch “now we’ll see how alike we are” (paraphrasing) and imo rereading it you get that he never trusted coin, like Cina he always sided with Katniss and bet on her, I think he also understood that Snow had no benefit to kill all the Capitol children idk if he was also in the room when Gale and Beady talk about the double explosion model
to me katniss agrees to the hunger games to gain coin's trust and make her think she's convinced snow killed her sister and she's consumed by that rage so coin doesn't see her plan of killing her coming
ooh good point, but could Coin have pulled out of the execution at that point? Maybe she could’ve had someone else do it if she didn’t trust Katniss enough!!
@@meredithnovaco also in the book she agrees and then says 'for prim' which I think massively hints to the fact that she's tricking coin because she's subtly saying 'I know you killed prim' - maybe this is also an indicator to haymitch too as she's testing if he 'truly understands her' (and maybe extending to whether us the audience also truly understand her too or her motivations as this is one of the only times we only recieve her action- saying yes to the new games - without getting a private view into katniss' thoughts or motivations on why she says yes - we like haymitch have to figure it out ourselves) Also as others have she needed to make coin trust her to actually be able to be a part of the execution. And through tricking coin to gain her trust, the 'final shot of the war' is used on coin because as you said she is no different to snow, so the war between districts and the oppressor (13 becoming the new capitol) wouldn't actually end if coin ended up in power I do think that coin simply just believed that she had successfully radicalised Katniss, especially because of the death of prim (probably intentionally caused by coin) - and because she believed katniss was broken down enough, katniss could do the final bidding of the war being to kill snow. With katniss being a war symbol it would make the most sense in terms of propaganda for katniss to do the execution. Coin wouldn't want katniss to be viewed as a diplomatic figure after the war as it would weaken coins rise to power. Getting katniss to do the execution associates katniss firmly with the war period and the end of snows era and through katniss being historically remembered as a rebel/radical/war figure it makes it quite impossible for people to then view her as a potential president (trauma/war/people want to start fresh) - making it a lot easier for coin to then sweep in after snows execution - (coin didn't really make many public appearances to the districts or the capitol - she got other rebels and katiss to do the dirty work so none of the blood would be associated with her) Sorry I waffled a looottt but hence she still used katniss as her executor and symbolic end of war despite still maybe not fully trusty her, katniss showing her (fake) support gave her enough evidence to believe that she had broken her down enough to use her
@@meredithnovacoTrue but that is why she makes the demand that she be the one to kill Snow before she votes yes to the games. It's actually very masterful on Katniss part. She gets Coin to let down her guard so that she will be there front and center to execute, avenges Prim's death, and makes sure the games she voted for will never actually happen because Coin says she will announce it after the execution.
That makes sense. I always read her killing Coin as a spur of the moment thing, where she's standing there in the moment and realizes that killing Coin would do more than killing snow. While Katniss certainly could've (and likely did) plan it, the books have made it known that Katniss is not one for being subtle and hiding plans. She IS one for acting in the moment, though. I never even really thought about it being premeditated haha! Katniss is just so spontaneous that I just assume most things she does are spur of the moment.
My favorite quote from the book is “There are still moments where he clutches a chair in the dining room and I still wake up screaming from nightmares of lost children but his arms are there to comfort me and eventually his lips and after when he asks:You love me real or not real? I answer real
@@sabiha.sayeed yes I think my trauma keeps me from maintaining a relationship and the fact that I went to a all girls school makes it hard for me to keep a relationship
@@nmoney6655 You're right. Trauma does get in the way of maintaining relationships. I hope you can find happiness, whether that is in a relationship or outside it. Take care of yourself.
I think it is really interesting that Coin is the only person Katniss actually kills out of choice and not out of survival throughout the whole series.
i think it may be because coin is so dangerous. she can be just as evil as snow but much more conniving and manipulative. like it was mentioned in the video snow thinks people should be rules by an iron fist and coin rules people with the illusion of choice and freedom. hell, snow is threatening katniss and her family constantly but never truly gets them, meanwhile coin knowingly killed prim without a second thought while smiling in katniss’ face. she wanted katniss to die on film and use her image. snow was already shown to be evil to all of panem. snow is a whole lot of bark with a bit of bite. coin bites with no warning. coin feels her end justifies all the means. and that’s dangerous for a nation like panem at a time like that where the capital was falling and there was so much anger to take advantage of.
@@skunkskiestink6620 i agree! like the name suggests, i think coin is flightly and flippy, like a coin. the fact that all the interactions with her are so cryptic and uncertain that it keeps you on your toes the whole time. like you said, she could strike at any moment. that is not a leader that provides stability and katniss quickly notices, even when she may not realise it. snow is a snake assuming the position of one, whereas coin is a snake in the grass who can catch people unawares.
I like the idea that Coin purposefully sent Katniss into danger hoping she would die to become a martyr that she could control the image of as she couldn’t control Katniss
I'm pretty confident that the book explicitly makes that point. There is no other reason Coin would send Peeta in with Katniss's team. If it had all worked out for Coin, Peeta would have killed Katniss, either indirectly or directly, and Coin could use this to sow distrust of all people directly involved with the capital. Plus Katniss would be a martyr that carries the war to its end while no longer posing a threat to her rule. Maybe thats not made clear in the movie but its made very clear (in my opinion) in the book.
@@emalinepeeler9946idk about the book but in mj pt2 Katniss is literally told by her group leader(commander) that Coin probably wants her dead or doesn't mind if she dies because Katniss has played out her role in the rebellion
@@emalinepeeler9946 Or maybe Coin knew Katniss would be willing to die to keep Peeta safe and then she could have used Katniss as martyr of sorts.Or maybe Coin was thinking that if Katniss died that could have forced Peeta step up and be the face of the rebellion while Coin pulled strings behind the scenes to manipulate Peeta.
Your point about how Prim isn't very fleshed out as a character also shows the reason why Rue is so powerful. We know that Rue isn't Prim, but that she represents Prim in a lot of ways for Katniss. We see through her how much Katniss loves Prim and wants to protect her. It helps build our understanding of Katniss as a character, but not Prim. And that also contributes to the true gut punch at the end of the series. Prim showing up in the Capitol is a complete shock to Katniss and a complete shock to us. She's kept growing up where Rue stopped. It's a hell of a challenge for Prim to be such a pivotal character and such a huge part of Katniss's motivation throughout the series while remaining largely off the page/screen, and Rue's role in the first Games very much contributes to the cohesiveness of the whole.
I also feel like a good part of that is because of Katniss as well. We're limited to her pov and her feelings and opinions of her sister which is mostly little sis she has to protect from everything.
Oh man. I didn't think about that before. The reason we don't see much of Prims sudden change is bc Katniss misses so much of Prims growth. She's being constantly ripped away from her and we're forced to live with the same distance Katniss is forced into to having with her family.
@@JBFJBFJBF yeah and i feel it contributes to the shock that prim actually grew up. it's sort of like carrying your niece or nephew when they were infants, then not seeing them for a few years, and meeting up again and being surprised that they can walk and talk now katniss has these moments where she realizes prim is no longer a girl with an untucked shirt duck tail, but someone who's had to survive horrors, and the change is sudden and jarring
yes prim and rue both plainly represent the innocent and the least protected and in this situation literal children of panem. it’s very interesting that we have both rue and prim because it does later create that parallel where rue is forever remembered as a child and not only that but the epitome of innocence in the games, and prim gets to grow up, genuinely advise and care for katniss, and even join the rebellion (still as this very honorable innocent doctor) but picking a side regardless and giving her life for the rebellion. in the end katniss lost them both but prim grew just enough to stand up for herself somewhat against the capital
@@JBFJBFJBF Also maybe Katniss been in the games forced Prim to step up and be there for their mother and even had to plan what they would do if Katniss died.Plus Prim might have felt responsible for Katniss been in the games since Katniss volunteered in her place and so as a result Prim took on more responsibility in Katniss's absence.
Yep, exactly this. She heard Gale talk about this type of attack. It was part of why she couldn't look at Gale again later on. He recognized it too and hated himself for his plan being used to hurt people he cared for.
@@elyserhyne243he only regretted it bc it hurt Katniss and killed her sister. He didn’t care that innocent children were murdered bc of where they grew up. That’s a war crime.
When Katniss's dad died, her mom fell apart and was unable to care for her children. They talk at some point about how she needed a medicine, like it was extreme clinical depression, but she didn't have the ingredients or the willpower to get them. Katniss can't forgive her because Katniss had to become the adult, when she was 11 and also grieving. When Katniss believes Peeta is dead, and when Prim dies, she reacts in basically the same way her mom did and becomes suicidal and catatonic. She doesn't have kids though, so it's allowed. I think her mom doesn't come back to live in 12 because, like it says explicitly, she can't live with the memories of her dead husband and daughter, but also she can't face Katniss, who has always been unforgiving of her grief, even though and maybe especially because they grieve in similar ways. When the only one left is someone who cannot hold space for your breakdown, you wouldn't go live with her. I also hated Katniss's mom when I first read the books fifteen years ago, now that I am 30 I see her very differently... She's a very tragic figure to me. I wish I knew her name.
there's a scene in the very end, when katniss begins to recover that she says she called her mom and all they did was cry together, to me that scene was very powerful, it felt like they were finally able to connect and move forward. I like to think that her mom came to visit katniss and meet her grandchildren after some years.
Oh my god I hate her mom too, like, imagining just stop being a mother because your husband died, and remember the scene when Katniss comes home and her mom is all “you’re not allowed to have a boyfriend” um…… that’s not what you say to your traumatized child who was fighting to the death
Idk why i could never hate katniss mom. I feel angry bc i think my dad messed my mom up so bad that she didn’t shield me from reality enough in childhood, so i saw and knew too much abt our poverty but then i was also weirdly sheltered. It’s hard man
@@Lalaland666-k3xher mom literally is a traumatized person, yeah she was a bad parent but you can’t just pretend that she’s another human with feelings. I have no kids so idk what it’s like and she should’ve tried harder for her kids, but reacting to the world they live in isn’t only for Katniss, other ppl are dealing with shit too. Is a weeping child more important than a weeping mother? No, no less or no more, they’re both important. They both suffer in that awful world.
@@diabloakland yeah but the thing is is the fact how Katniss, when she was ELEVEN had to take care of her mom and sister, she was trying to keep her and her sister from going into an orphanage and keep her mom out of trouble while her mom didn’t help her at all, when Katniss was selected and was able to see her mom and Prim she was literally telling her mom how to look after Prim, she literally yelled at her saying that she had to parent her and give her a chance of a somewhat normal life, I’m not saying that Katniss’s mom doesn’t have trauma, but going into full on grief mode forever after your husband dies forcing your eleven year old child to hunt, trade, and look after the family is beyond messed up in my book, just because she’s traumatized doesn’t mean she had to traumatize Katniss and Prim, she also never got or ever tried to get better, for herself, for Katniss, or for Prim
i saw someone say katniss says yes to the games “for prim” as a test for coin. katniss KNEW prim would never want another hunger games, she literally sacrificed her own life to save capital children, and coin not seeing that is pretty much katniss’ final confirmation that coin never cared about prim, and was just as bad as snow. “for prim” also works in a different sense: prim and other innocent children were killed in an enclosed area, at the hands of coin, in order to send a political message, similar to the structure of the hunger games. so in a way, katniss ALREADY saw coin’s version of the hunger games play out. ifl this shows how katniss was never really saying yes to coin, she was just following a plan.
Ooh okay I can totally see this, especially with how Coin already killed a bunch of capitol children like you said!! Also because the bombs they dropped were like the things they dropped in the hunger games 👀👀 you convinced me I think you’re right!!
it makes more sense when you see Haymitch's reaction, Katniss even say that was time for her to see if he really knows her well, and he says "I'm with the Mockinjay", he never said yes, he never said he was with Katniss, he said he was with the symbol of the rebelion that was going to bring freedom to the districts, far away from the hands of dictators like Snow AND COIN, he really understood what she was up to, Haymitch would never agree to a new hunger games, just like Katniss
@@sarahharuka2811 Yes I totally agree with this take. It's made clear many times in the books that Katniss and Haymitch are extremely like minded and thus have a unique understanding of each other . They trust each other because of that understanding and then will react off of it. This was most pointed out when Katniss was dying of thirst in the arena but Haymitch wasn't sending water and she realized by not doing so he was actually telling her she was near water ..as she indeed was. Haymitch like Katniss isn't stupid and most likely already had his own doubts about Coin. This very suggestion of a symbolic Hunger Games would have sealed for him that Coin was a potentially worse version of Snow. He also realized Katniss knew it too and was up to something because he indeed would know Prim wouldn't want that. He basically was choosing to trust the person he knew he could in that situation..Katniss in her role as the Mockingjay.
I thought Katniss's saying "For Prim" wasn't her saying the games would be the price of vengeance for Prim's death, or as a test for Coin. I thought the "For Prim" was so she could get close enough to Coin with weapon in hand to kill her in vengeance for Prim, and also to end the games forever, in Prim's honor.
As a lesbian who didn’t have many feelings for peeta nor gale (I did want her to end with peeta though) I always saw them as ideologies. One person who is more gentle not as confrontational about things (peeta) and one who is more brute force who was willing to do “bad things” for a “good cause”. I always thought peeta was a good choice for katniss because she complimented him and they balanced eachother. Katniss already was very much a fighter and protector she needed someone who was sweeter and most gentle, someone to take care of her and worry about her wounds. I think gale was meant to represent fire which katniss already had so peeta was the water that brings down her flames. I think it was a great way to get the ideologies across while getting young readers interested in the romance. Many people like to focus on the love triangle but the closer you look at it the more clear cut the themes are which can make ir more digestible for younger audiences.
Yes exactly!! It makes me kind of sad now bc there’s so many people saying “what was the point, just cut gale out” but I feel like the whole series loses sooooo much deeper meaning if you do that!! Thanks for watching ❤️
that's literally what the book says about Katniss and Peeta at the end. that she has plenty of fire on her own and what she needed was spring which peeta represented and brought into her life.
“What I need to survive is not Gale's fire, kindled with rage and hatred. I have plenty of fire myself. What I need is the dandelion in the spring. The bright yellow that means rebirth instead of destruction. The promise that life can go on, no matter how bad our losses. That it can be good again. And only Peeta can give me that.” - Katniss in Mockingjay
I agree, Peeta was like prim. I noticed in the last book the roles seem to be reversed between prim in katniss - in the first book it’s katniss taking care of prim but by mockingjay, it’s prim who has to look after an emotionally unstable and scarred katniss, tucking her in bed, comforting her, healing her wounds. When prim was gone Peeta filled her place in a kind of way.
may i ask (i'm non-binary), why did you mention you are a lesbian? did you think it was relevant to your point? if so, i missed that facet/pov--can you say more?
It's also really interesting that Peeta loses his leg in the first game. Katniss is shocked that he couldn't be healed. I think it's symbolism for the games damages damaging her moral compass that she had before. She was horrified at the suggestion of murder before the game
I am very anti love triangle EXCEPT for Gale and Peeta, and its for the exact reasons you said. Maybe its because i was older when I read the trilogy and in the middle of my english lit degree but i immediately caught on to the fact that Peeta and Gale were metaphors for Katniss' choices. Both of those boys were absolutely necessary in the books.
This is why I’m only frustrated with the triangle in the movies because it feels like they pushed it and focused on it more than in the books. It felt too much like jumping on the twilight bandwagon in the movies while in the books it always felt clear to me what they represented. And in part that’s due to katniss’ inner monologue but at the same time it’s just the differences in the focus they chose to highlight I think
I remeber these guys as ones of the few love interests (ish) that i can actually recall and characterize I love the metaphor and i appreciate how in the end she ends up with a softer person (im sooo tired of love interests being buff and brute and hyper masculine), which is kinda rare But i dont really see a love triangle here Katniss doesnt seem to consider Gale much, everytime they kissed was either his intiative or she felt guilty/overwhelmed/tried to comfort
I still dont really see it as a love triangle. Katniss never showed signs of liking Gale romantically. In fact Gale gave off so many red flags before Mockingjay that imo peeta was the only option long before Mockingjay. Mockingjay is when she realized who her bestfriend truly was and she realized she didnt like that person at all the final nail was prim's death. Gale and Katniss always protected their siblings they were the parental figures so when Gale killed prim it was a betrayal that cut too deep that was how their friendship started and thats how it ended.
@@glitzdancer I disagree in the movies outside of Gale imterest in Katniss I never saw much from katniss in the film just like the book. If anything the fanbase projected a love triangle that was never there
The fan theory of Tigres’s story between Ballad and Mokingjay is that she becomes a stylist for the games (which was confirmed in Mockingjay) and due to nepotism was given her preferred tributes to style, which ended up being district 4. She continued to live her capitol life. However, once she realized the fate of Finnick after he won his games, she drew parallels to herself and how she had to traffic herself in order to support her family (particularly her cousin, Snow). This enraged her, as President Snow was well aware of her personal history. So she started to evolve her physical appearance to change her affiliation with her family and became a district sympathizer, then eventually giving her full support to the rebels.
From what I remember, in the Ballad of Songbirds and Snakes when Coriolanus found out what Tigris (and Lucy Gray) had to do, he seemed more disgusted than anything else, so I guess he never managed to empathise with her
@@auxangessthere’s multiple accounts in TBOSAS where snow is disgusted with both tigris and lucy gray at the prospect of them having to sell themselves to feed their families. it doesn’t come across like he has empathy for either, more so anxious about how people will perceive his family or jealousy over lucy gray (snow is such a weirdoooo)
@@auxangess he feels more disgusted and wronged by the idea of someone related 2 him doing things like this, felt like superiority complex also ? that no matter what he's done and will do he's better and more of a worthy person, not like THIS & not reaching that level of low ever
18:46 I read a theory somewhere that Tigris started hating Snow when he began prostituting the Hunger Games victors out to capitol citizens. It's implied in BOSBAS that Tigris herself had to resort to prostitution during the Dark Days in order to keep the Snows from starving to death, and it makes sense that finding out that her cousin is trafficking victors (children, essentially) would put her over the edge. At that point she's still a costume designer for the games but begins making her costumes progressively more rebellious in any little way she can find, and eventually Snow gets sick of it and fires her
fascinating deep dive! however, i think i disagree about Prim being "innocence" (i made the same conclusion at first, but after mulling it over...) I think Rue represented innocence in book1, but Prim represents "the way things were" or "happier times" so the reason we don't see much of Prim but Katniss has this idealized image of her is because over time memory fogs and fades. We long for that simpler time, the time before now, but we forget that those days also had struggles. Since we don't know a lot of detail about Katniss's past except things here and there, it makes sense that Prim (who represents this concept) is only seen from time to time. Thus Prim's death is the moment of Katniss realizing things can NEVER go back to how they were. That the world is not completely uncertain and there is nothing to anchor onto. Or maybe i'm an idiot, it's really up in the air. Anyway, awesome video. Keep at it ^_^
Ooh no you’re definitely not an idiot, I love this take!! I think it could go either way, especially because they kill the other kids with the bombs and that could be “innocence” too so it would be a lot for Prim to represent that as well
LOL thank you for your confidence, lovely ^_^@@meredithnovacosometimes it feels like i put far too much thought, like that 1 english/lit teacher trying to sound profound about the curtains being bleu -- but it's kind of fun to overthink, and i enjoy the chats and PoV of other over thinkers :)
I never thought of it that way, but that makes so much sense! Especially with the things Katniss says in the Epilogue about how she and Peeta have flashbacks and nightmares that will never go away, but they've learned to manage them and Peeta makes her believe "things can be good again".
Prim represented Katniss being a mom imo. Katniss pratically raised that girl. Katniss always said she has never wanted kids and prim represented her maternal instincts and foreshadows Katniss having her own kids at the end of mockingjay
@@morleywritesbooksI’d argue that Prim is neither representative of „innocence“ nor „the happy past“ per se, but she represents „innate goodness“: that’s why she is linked to Katniss‘ happier memories from the past at first, but she transcends that. It’s Prim‘s goodness that keeps them both going in District 13 and why she becomes a field medic. And when she’s killed Katniss is indeed grieving her anchor to her past, but she’s also losing the hope for a better future akin to „if even the truly good people die, what chances (and right) do I have to go on?“ At least that’s how I always interpreted it. 😊
I like the theory that Katniss said yes to the “final” Hunger Games in order to guarantee that she would have the chance to kill Coin. Remember, they also repeated ‘if you’re not with her, you’re against her’ in regards to Coin. If Katniss had said no, she probably wouldn’t have been given the chance to do the execution. She said yes in order to trick Coin into giving Katniss the chance to kill her. That’s also my theory as to why Haymitch agreed with her. When she says “this is the moment we find out how alike we really are”, I think it’s implying that Haymitch realizes, even if only partially, what all Katniss has realized and he supports her in order to stay on Coin’s good side and to show that he understands Katniss without outright telling Katniss, since they didn’t have much opportunity to talk, especially without being watched/recorded. Also, the reason Katniss is able to know what is happening with the final bombs is that it’s the same design that Beetee and (mainly) Gale (that specific bomb design is thought up by Gale) were talking about down in the lab in 13 with Katniss earlier in the book. That’s another reason why she realized that Coin dropped the bombs, not Snow. The specific design of the bomb, plus Prim being there, plus Snow reminding her that they had agreed never to lie to one another (this happened in Catching Fire, before the Victory Tour), knowing how Snow never killed when he didn’t find it necessary, along with her knowing how much Coin hated her and how afraid Coin was of Katniss taking the power from her, all led to her realizing who really dropped the bombs.
YESS I feel like that's the route that makes more sense when thinking about why Katniss (and Haymitch) would say yes to another hunger games when we know since the first book her opinion on the games
also i think in the trial plutarch would have been advocating for katniss and revealing the evil of president coin. because its from katniss’ pov and she’s so shell shocked about her sister, she isn’t absorbing all the information from the trial. people in 13 knew coin was corrupt and that can be seen when boggs transfers katniss the holo and warns her about staying on coins good side.
Plus, I think one of the terms of letting her go is that she had to go back to District 12 and drop out of the public eye. Her influence would be done, so she couldn't do any more "harm".
@@DianaW3431 Although Plutarch keeps trying to get her to be part of a new singing show he's developing so maybe not entirely out of the public eye! But I think the implication or stated condition is she can't leave District 12 for at least some prolonged period.
it's been AGES but for me gale has always been a big brother, bitter furious and grief stricken, he's not always a GOOD man or a GOOD brother. but he is all you got so you stick with him. never saw him through a romantic lens
I gotta agree. I think they were more siblings, but knew (at the beginning) that them being together as married (maybe not real romantic partners) was just the natural conclusion in 12
gale and peeta feel like foils to me. i especially noticed this when reading catching fire and reading gale's nasty behavior/reaction to katniss upon meeting up with her (with the gloves) to her proposing they leave. and immediately after it shows how peeta reacts to her asking that they leave and it's entirely different and his behavior is healthy for katniss. gale's is completely toxic. seemed very intentional
Yeahhh he’s painful to read in the second book the most in my opinion, maybe there’s a deeper meaning to his character but that doesn’t make him less annoying!!
@@Theweirdunicorn69i wonder if that's the point? That he just... doesn't get it. Kind of that feeling of meeting a childhood friend you had a crush on years later and you're like "oh you're not who I thought you were" when it comes to recontextualized habits or tendencies It's been years and years since I read the books, but Gale always seemed the more... gung ho about violence when it came to the rebellion. The scene when he picks up the black mechanical bow in Mockingjay comes to mind. It caught Katniss's attention for a reason but I can't remember exactly why He feels like one of those guys who fantasizes about being a hero and fighting in wars. And I know they literally are but... the vibes y'know?
@@EtamirTheDemiDeer You are spot on Gale has always gave me red flags even in the first book. The way he talks about killing like its easy and that its no different to an animal is scary and Katniss while not aware of who she has feelings for yet it was putoff by it and that grows as the series continues
@@EtamirTheDemiDeer I reread the books during the pandemic and I realized I hated Gale way less this time around. Because now I understand better that, yeah Gale didn't see violence against the capitol the same wsy as he saw violence BY the capitol. In book 1 he mentions how the class divide within districs exists to make the people hate each other instead of the real enemy, while Katniss barely commented on it. So Gale was always more politically savy than her. But he also didn't experience being forced to kill a bunch of a kids for the entertainment of the masses, kids he would've seen be just kids also trying to survive. So between that and the bombing of district 12, I can see how Gale (who once understoo the nuance of the sitaution), has now been radicalized against his enemy. It's very realistic and heartbreaking. I still hate how entitled he thinks he is to Katniss' affection tho
Only a few minutes in but...thinking of Gale as the ideology that it doesn't matter what you do or who you kill or how you do it as long as the people are freed in the end, and thinking of Prim as the ones who will come after, and then remembering that Gale is the reason Prim died....it hits hard. How many times have we seen in war or conflict or times of civil unrest that those who are willing to go to extremes sometimes cause setbacks for the very people they claim to fight for?
katniss puts together the bombs going off a second time because she heard gale and beetee come up with the idea for the bombs during the earlier events of mockingjay
Im re-listening to the trilogy (Tatiana does INCREDIBLE narration on the free TH-cam version - highly recommend) in my late twenties and Gale suddenly became such a effective character for me. I hold so much sympathy for his situation, and honestly - I believe Katniss and Gale would have had a beautiful life together if she wasn’t reaped in the games. Peeta however BECOMES what she needs to heal. Gale could never be that for her by the end of Mockingjay, and it’s truly bittersweet. It also adds another layer of why Peeta is the GOAT. He handles Gale and Katniss’s relationship with so much grace and respect it’s honestly mind-blowing.
I know this is going to sound odd and kinda creepy but to me it felt like Gale was kind of a replacement for Katniss’ father in her life. She hunts with him, he looks like her and he goes to the mine. I think her romantic likeness for Gale is out of guilt for the loss of her father, so (and I think this is stated in the movie) Every time he’s hurt she’ll be romantic with him because she knows he likes her and that will make him happy. She lost her father so she can’t lose his stand in. I think personally even if Katniss didn’t have to go into the games that Gale and her were never endgame because Katniss could never love Gale because whenever she did choose him, she chose her father not Gale.
Oooh this is a good take I love it, it honestly makes so much sense because girls tend to be attracted to men who are like their father which is kind of weird to think abt but makes sense
I think she would have chosen Gale if she didn't went to the Games, but not for the right reasons. Or she would have convinced herself that she loved him romantically, or she would have tolerated her life with him because she would see it as a duty/necessity
I don’t think there is anything wrong with a girl picking a man like their father, specially if they were a very good Man. We learn from our parents on how we should behave and act and then seek out similar people who share those same qualities. Also peta with his gentleness is also like her father and Gayle with his hunting. Though Katniss is the most like her father.
in the movies when katniss shot coin and snow laughs, katniss and snow have this moment that i cannot describe for the life of me - there's pride, disbelief, the act of snow honestly giving katniss the pieces to put together and then katniss taking it genuinely? there was so much in that eye contact before snow died. it's my favorite moment in that movie.
24:51 i always took it as she needed it to seem like she was on Coins side bc she was already wary of katniss for the entirety of the book and she wouldnt have let her kill snow (even tho she wanted to kill her) if Coin didnt believe she would actually kill HIM
Hmm yeah I’ve been seeing this theory and it’s interesting, I just wonder if Coin could have called off the execution at that point because it was just before? Or if she just wouldn’t have had Katniss do it? All fun questions!!
Katniss agreed to the “last hunger games” so that coin would announce it to the masses before Katniss shot her. So that everyone would know what’s gonna happen if anyone ever decided to have a hunger games again. Katniss wanted everyone to know why coin deserved to die. Katniss killed 2 president snows that day. She knew the people would tear snow apart whether she shot him or not
As a military veteran, former combat medic/ambulance medic, with PTSD: what you said about the tributes @ 16:07 is the reason I give for why I love this series so much (if I'm gonna give just 1). Suzanne Collins REALLY showed what it's like in the head/life of someone with PTSD, and how other presentations of PTSD exist. I also think Prim was her personal self insert character here, or the self insert of anyone who's put up on an "innocent" pedestal as the "reason why a warrior is fighting." There are a few times in the books (and a few extra in the movies) where Katniss speaks to Prim about things that most folks w/ PTSD never share with the "innocent" and every time she shows a willingness to be there for, not just her sister, but everyone who is suffering through this war. I think, veterans especially, tend to think we need to keep those folks pure/untouched by the things that make us feel broken. And it doesn't help when we try and open up and folks, who say they want to be there for us, treat us like the damaged/insane goods we already feel like. So when someone who ACTUALLY cares (ie Prim, Suzanne Collins, most military brats/sibs) offers help, we unfairly treat them like the assholes who lied about "loving us no matter what" all while glorifying something we don't find much glory in. Suzanne "kills Prim" to put to bed the myth that the innocent can remain untouched by war. Edit: Wanted to add that Gale is a character who invalidates himself. As you said, he represents "the ends justify the means" which (imo at least) is correct. He even gets biased confirmations that his way is right in this regard. After all, the people who say he's right are the ones actually getting things done, why should he treat the tributes/their experiences with respect? Every time he makes a hard decision, the results and losses are always always always something he can fathom and accept. Heck, his results are often pretty far above the best case scenario results. So he must be doing things right, right? Sure the tributes are practically screaming at him that he'll eventually come to a price he can't pay, but he knows how this works, losses are gonna happen and that's something he knows he can live with. Until Prim. He kills his entire character, his entire worth, everything that matters to him, the moment he knows in his heart that he killed Prim.
Snow dies at the execution I believe from being beat to death by the masses, but he's implied to be dying since his appearance in katniss' house in catching fire. The sickly smell of the roses and his strange appearance. Then he's coughing blood and Katniss hears rumors that he's taken small amounts of poison so many times in order to assassinate rivals that he's slowly poisoned himself over time. He was gonna be dead soon, arrow or not. Also, fun lil tidbit President Coin is "the other side of the same *coin*"
I personally interpret Haymitch as a living embodiment of the way trauma can lead to bitterness. He’s arguably one of the most bitter characters in the whole series, and he struggles with hope. It’s no accident to me that in one of her darkest moments-right after the Quarter Quell announcement-she goes to Haymitch, not for guidance or insight, but for alcohol and a promise that her life is forfeit. Haymitch represents the bitterness and darkness of trauma, and Katniss is closest to him in her darkest moments. When she goes to see Peeta after he’s been hijacked, who brings her to that moment? Haymitch. When she’s testing Coin to see if she’s really going to kill her, the one she communicates with through eye contact? Haymitch. They’re the last two votes that seal Alma Coin’s fate, and they do so bitterly, and again, Katniss is intending to end her life. I think Joanna, on this same thread, represents the anger that comes with trauma.
I loved the hunger games as a teen and i still do! For me coin was a representation of the continuation of the status quo being upheld and the systems that have always been around being used. Katniss choosing to kill coin is her choosing to get rid of the last person who still wants the power and control that the old systems give to whomever takes advantage. It’s the death of the old guard. And it opens the way forward for new people to choose their own fate.
This was a really interesting video. I think the point about the tributes being the most fleshed out is a unique observation I haven’t heard anywhere else and may also show where Katniss’s focus is since she’s the POV character. I have just a couple points since I don’t really have anyone to discuss stuff like this with lol. Firstly, Katniss only voted for the games in the end because she realized she needed to prove her loyalty to Coin. If she had opposed Coin’s proposal, she never would have been given the chance to execute Snow and therefore Coin. That’s why Katniss hopes Haymitch understands what she’s doing and votes with her, not that she actually wants it but it’s her sucking up and getting Coin’s guard down. A theory I tend to believe, not completely but in principle, is that Coin constantly tries to get Katniss killed once she realizes she can’t control her. There’s a whole conspiracy about the bombing in district 8 and how it may have been orchestrated by Coin and especially Peeta getting sent wherever Katniss is and the raid on the capitol. At that point, Katniss is way too much of a loose canon for the calculated and rigid Coin so she’d serve her rebellion better as a martyr, and what better person to kill the Mockingjay than her lover who has been endorsing the Capitol in the war up until that point. It’s still just a big reality tv show, another hunger games but, just like every other time, Katniss defeats the game makers and outlives their planned death for her, even Snow realizes in the end that they’d all been puppets on Coin’s strings and he failed to see the bigger picture. Also, I personally interpret Peeta as a representation of hope to Katniss rather than morality. Considering what the Capitol does to the people of the districts, there kind of isn’t a way to ask whether the rebels went too far without seeming naive or outright ignorant. Katniss says many times in Mockingjay that Peeta was the better option for a face of the rebellion, she’s cold, unfriendly, impulsive and morbidly cynical while he’s a natural people person, optimistic and very clever. Gale is like her, a direct mirror of her, and that’s why they don’t work together, they feed the worst parts of each other. Gale’s ruthlessness mirrors her own, she kills way more people than Peeta does, and some of her darkest moments are when Peeta’s idealistic image has been corrupted. That’s why he’s the one that stops her from taking the nightshade pill, a manifestation of hope literally stops her from killing herself and pulls her through her grief. That’s why she’s fixated on saving him and is willing to die for him. Katniss and Gale survive together, Katniss and Peeta live, maybe even thrive.
Ooh okay I like your theory on Coin, I do think she was often trying to kill Katniss so I can see where maybe Katniss agreed to placate her so she would still trust her with the arrow!! For Peeta, I see what you’re saying, I do definitely see how Peeta could represent hope for Katniss!! I think he definitely does but they go hand in hand, like hope is part of what helps people hold onto their humanity through war. Thank you so much for watching and commenting, I really enjoyed reading it!! 🥰
@@meredithnovaco thanks for giving a comfy space to discuss. I was also big into the hunger games when I was a kid and I really didn’t get to talk to people about it. Keep up the good work!
I think Prim had to be kept at arm's length because the idea of "childhood innocence" doesn't reflect the actual experiences of kids, Primrose included. Children are real, whole people. They are still developing and learning how everything works, but they are organisms built to function in their environment. Kids are smart. They're perceptive. They're capable -- once a kid can walk, they are a full acting being changing the world. And they may not know anything yet, but boy howdy are they working to rectify that. Our idea of childhood innocence is basically the romanticization of ignorance in a context where it can be justified. It's adults wishing they could go back to the time before they knew certain hard truths, with a vague knowledge that there *are* hard things out there, but they have an excuse not to learn them. Real kids aren't like that! Prim wasn't like that! Kids are out to learn *everything* and be part of the world, as soon as they can! Children are so ready to replace innocence with knowledge, it's downright hubristic. In the books, we see Prim blatantly contradict Katniss's dollish conception of her by going into medicine and fighting however she can. She's a martyr and a revolutionary, not a mere victim. The idea of childhood innocence, protecting that in her sister, was important to Katniss' worldview, and so she could never actually get to know Primrose, as she was. Because Prim is a whole person (as much as a fictional character can be lol), not some pure cherubic baby. She never was.
i think hatniss votes yes because of the thing you said in the video a few minutes earlier. coin doesn’t trust anyone who isn’t on her side. if you aren’t for coin, you’re against her. at this point, i think katniss already knows she wants to kill coin and just needs to get close enough to do it. if katniss voted no, coin might have had her guard up or might not have let katniss kill snow
i love looking at haymich as a mirror for katniss, i think youre spot on :) they both manipulated the games for self preservation and uninentionally pissed off snow. i love this entire concept actually and i think youre being huge brain rn. the characters showing up in the story to symbolize whats already happening within katniss is 😗👌
The scene in Mockingjay part 2 where everyone is in Tigris's basement, Katniss is pretending to be asleep but she overhears the conversation between Gale and Peeta in which they say 'she will pick the one she needs most' (or something along those lines), i'm not too sure if this happens in the book, Its been a while since i read them. But, i think it shows how in the end she needed to abandon her anger (Gale) completely and fully accept her conscience (Peeta) to survive. Hence why we see Peeta return to district 12 at the end to join her. It was her conscience coming back. Which is what she needed most.
Yes, it happens in the book too and Katnis is actually quite offended at what they conclude and how they see her even tho she admits theyre right. I believe the phrasing Gale uses is that shell choose the one she cant live without
Whenever I read/watch anything now I try and remember who is narrating the story. I agree that Prim likely represents innocence and childhood and that it is difficult to portray a character this way and have lots of interactions with them. However, with Katniss telling the story in past tense I feel that it makes sense for the details of Prim to be far and few between. In the first book there is a lot of emphasis on physical details of prim and by the third book a quite few of her personality quirks are noted (like her obsession with the scraggly stray cat lol). All of these traits feel like what you would remember of a loved one that passed years ago. I also think that Prim representing innocence made it so she had to die in the series. Not only to keep her character's integrity but for the perfect metaphor for the casualties of war. I really think that this series will be required reading in schools within the near future. Truly a wonderful series and I love the community it has fostered.
I think another example of this is the first movie. Peeta was scared to kill someone while Gale told Katniss that she hunts animals and it’s the same as hunting people.
I think Katniss says in the end of Mockingjay that she understands her mom can't return to District 12 because, if she does, she'll just end up going catatonic again & fall back into serious depression and it wouldn't help either way, so it's better for her mom to go to district 8(or 2? idk) and continue to focus on helping/healing people. Katniss also forgives her mom after losing Peeta & realizing she's reacting the same way her mom did after their dad's death: to shut down, and be unresponsive even when she's needed.
With the letting Katniss go after killing Coin I always felt like Plutarch did something in the background to let her go. He didn’t like Snow he was a rebel and by that idea he probably didn’t want Coin either since they’re the same. Idk I feel like the schemer in the background did something
Yeah this makes sense!! Someone else pointed out that other dist 13 people also didn’t trust Coin and warned Katniss so there might’ve been multiple people trying to pull strings!!
yeah, in the movie Haymitch says that he and Plutarch managed to leave her out of all that situation and go back to 12, what right now is in a way a prision, there is no living soul in there, she is not locked in a small room, but basically left in a destroyed city, so I think that with that they managed to give her freedom without letting her "free" in the districts and capitol, where some people could want to kill her or make her be confined in a room for killing Coin
It’s stated in the book as well. They at first got her off as an insanity plea, but then slowly released info on coin. They couldn’t quickly release info on coin is bad, cause that would make it look false. So they waited a bit to slowly “discover” her crookedness.
I think there's also the fact that Katniss was such a huge symbol for the rebellion and was seen as this heroic figure of justice, maybe even more important to the idea of the revolution than Coin herself. Executing Katniss could cause a lot of controversy that wasn't conducive to establishing a new regime. For those like Plutarch who were in the know about Coin's dark side also knew that Katniss's actions would probably eventually be exonerated if the public ever discovered Coin's intentions to revive the games.
@@hurricaneofcats In the book, it talks about how Dr. Aurelius earned his naps by presenting Katniss as a hopeless, shell-shocked lunatic. So it was pretty much entirely via insanity plea
I also always thought that the love triangle isn't pointless because it shows that respecting your partner's choices IS actually love. Peeta professed his love for Katniss and understood and backed off in Catching Fire when she rightfully says "hey I'd love to but I've got a lot going on right now". When Gale says he loves Katniss, and she says "I've got a lot going on right now" he continues to pressure her to be with him. Peeta loves Katniss for who he is, Gale loves Katniss for the idea he has of her in his head. Ultimately, she chooses the partner who respects her choices. (and who didn't kill her sister but you know)
Something I think Suzanne Collins did unintentionally is that Gale reminds me of young Snow from Songbirds and Snakes. Obviously I don't think Gale is as bad as Snow or Coin, but he does carry traits of Snow when he was younger. Snow was possessive of Lucy Gray and definitely believed that the means justify the ends. We never got Gale's inner monologue, but what we did see was him bringing their relationship to the forefront of the conversation whenever she discussed their lives being in danger. We did see him always being jealous of Peeta to the point when he admitted he thought of something "selfish" when he saw hijacked Peeta. And then he suggested the idea of planting bombs where civilians would be, which he should know children would be there as well with their parents. Snow had this unreasonable jealousy toward Billy Taupe when Lucy Gray was still hurt over what Billy did, thinking she should just get over it quicker. He defended the Capitol's system when they were obviously hurting people, especially children. I would even argue that Coin was Gale's Dr. Gaul because both women took both men under their wings and then influenced them to behave like them.
This is amazing observation. I really see it, Gale and Snow are very similar - both of them were first trying to survive and when the occasion presented itself, they went and took the power available fór them into their own hands - and I believe both of them did it with intention of turning society to a better state - however, both of them failed to do that. The problem was in their perception od people, neither one of them saw the people, they only saw them as numbers and a means to an end.
This video is as good as videos with thousands of views and likes! Really enjoyed your analysis, and it legit gave me understanding of the “love triangle”! 😁
My understanding of why she said yes was to gain president Coin’s trust. She wanted to prove to Coin that she was finally broken and would follow her orders willingly so that she would trust her out in the open with a weapon otherwise she might’ve protected herself from Katniss in someway.
26:07 about that last bit of analysis, Katniss is locked up in her old room at the training center for weeks, with a trial going on in the background to know what sentence is for her, along with peacekeepers, other victors, etc. You can’t punish somebody who has ptsd from years of being used by both sides, sent twice in a hunger games, being followed by a therapist who can’t seem to help her talk, someone who literally contemplated suicide. Sending her back to 12 is showing justice working (in my opinion). Also, during those weeks of isolation, she is so depressive to the point she contemplates suicide. But the interesting part that we could analysis here is that she never succeed, she wants to die but can’t commit like something is keeping her from actually really wanting to die. Then she is sent to Dictrict 12, where she still contemplates suicide until Peeta plants Primrose by her house, so following your really interesting analysis, honoring innocence and childhood as a way to bring her back to wanting life again
Gale and Beetee (i forgot how to spell his name forgive me) developed those bombs that were used the on the kids. Katniss was there during the development and was put off by them and when they were used she recognized they were the bombs from district 13
Good video! I enjoyed listening. Some corrections though I noticed- Peeta didn’t actually appear in the field until Coin sent him to the Capitol to join Katniss after she snuck away from 13. He wasn’t actually in District 2 during the mountain takeover. Gale and Katniss even have a romantic moment there that gets cut short because he realizes she’ll “never love him as much as Peeta”. Also Pollux survives with Gale, Katniss, and Peeta (thank god 😭)
Thanks for catching this I’m glad I wasn’t the only one! She also doesn’t get shot in the head she gets shot in the abdomen and ends up breaking some ribs
100% Katniss (and maybe even Haymitch) agreed to the final games in order to get the drop on Coin. I seem to remember there's even a line in that meeting where they look at each other and some unspoken understanding passes between them. I like how you laid out clearly how Peeta pops up whenever Katniss' conscience comes knocking, that's a good catch. My only disagreement is that I don't find it necessary to categorise characters as either ideologies OR 'people' for a novel like this. Peeta has his bread sharing moment, his heartbreaking real-or-not-real checks, Gale has his angst - Collins put work into giving them at least a little life beyond their ideology so I don't see why they can't be people too.
She knew the second bomb would go off because she heard the plan for the exact same type of attack from Gale. He was describing it for a different location. She recognized it in reverse where it was their own medics bombed instead of enemy ones.
What I always found funny about Coin’s name is how big of a tip it is about her intentions from the very start. In this huge layered metaphor, Alma represents the other side of the “coin” of Coriolanus. They are, at the core, the same, just with a different face. I didn’t notice it on my first read-through, but when I realized what she was and reread it, it felt like a glowing neon sign.
Also, I think Suzanne Collins did a good job at foreshadowing Snow’s illness and death. In the movies, you see the blood in his wine and his tissues, but in the books Katniss talks about how he leans close and she can smell the blood on his breath. It’s such a creepy description and it stuck with me!
24:40 - I think Katniss agreeing to the have one last Games was her playing Coin. (In the movies at least) Coin very clearly wanted Capital Hunger Games to happen but left the “final decision” up to the surviving tributes as a metaphor for them “getting their justice” or whatever while still keeping her own hands clean, likely assuming that most of the tributes would want some revenge. Katniss agreed to support the games but immediately followed up with the condition that she wanted to be the one to kill Snow. This would put her in a prime spot to kill Coin. Coin immediately agreed because not only is she getting her Hunger Games, but by having Katniss kill Snow (Katniss being Coin’s biggest political threat), Katniss is basically showing the rest of Panem that she is just a brutal killer, and animal almost, while again Coin portrays herself as “clean” and blameless. Katniss also looks to Haymich during and says “For Prim” to get him to side with her decision, and at this point she knows that Coin is most likely the one who ordered the bombs dropped on the civilians and put Prim in the spot to be killed by the second strike, so everything from that point on and every decision she made was to help her kill Coin.
20:51 Katniss puts it together because it’s Gales trap. The same thing that he wanted to do with the mountain. Sending bombs then drawing more people into the trap and bombing again. She knows it’s gales bomb (This is the part in mocking Jay when she asks him) We stand there, face-to-face, not meeting each other's eyes. "You didn't come see me in the hospital." He doesn't answer, so finally I just say it. "Was it your bomb?" "I don't know. Neither does Beetee," he says. "Does it matter? You'll always be thinking about it." He waits for me to deny it; I want to deny it, but it's true. Even now I can see the flash that ignites her, feel the heat of the flames. And I will never be able to separate that moment from Gale. My silence is my answer.
She figured out what is about to happen to Prim because of something Gale says in an earlier scene to her and Beady about using Snows playbook of doing a small bomb to get people to react and help then a bigger bomb to kill everyone.
25:58 i mean to be fair, if you hand a crazy person a weapon and tell her to point it at the president its kinda on you for creating that circumstance. in the books coin was like directly behind snow so she could have even missed and hit coin on accident, and she was officially deemed being not in a stable state of mind so thats the story theyre going with in the books
literally the best fucking analysis I've ever seen of the hunger games. I was always confused by the love triangle cus I was like 'susane is too damn smart and calculating to let this be meaningless" and you hit it on the fucking head. I knew they were supposed to be opposing view points but the concept that they are extremes personified is fucking brilliant. also you mention not knowing how katniss knew what would happen to prim- which is actually my favorite detail in Mockingjay. gale invented the bomb that killed prim. which is mostly why katniss blames him. the trap is based off of hunting techniques that kill/lure out babies to lure in adult animals. he developed these hunting traps into war techniques for the rebellion. it is quite literally the end point of his entire character, when he breaks down fully into an ideology instead of a person. quite possbly my favorite storyline. i think it represents how what began as a survival method (hunting) becomes a form of vengeance (bombs) and how gale has always represented pushing the line of where ultimate survival merges into retribution and how you define survival in a rebellion
Fascinating analysis, I wasn't able to connect the dots the way you did but to me Haymitch is the trauma (one of the most important plotpoints of the book) personifed. Whenever Katniss seems to slip all the way into despair - Haymitch shows up. Not to pat her on the back and say that everything's going to be ok (even if he does that) but because he's the endpoint/bottom of slipping into despair. Katniss falls down closer to the bottom and thus - closer to Haymitch who's there pretty much all the time. I think it's why during the negotiations he says that he'll do what the Mockingjay decides - he's been at the bottom too long to decide what the future should be. His life won't really get that much better since he lost everything anyway - but the new world may still change a lot for Katniss and other people. They should decide what's best. Anyway - I once again wanted to applaud your analysis - it's brilliant.
I don’t know if anyone explained but Katniss, Beetee and Gale were talking about weapons halfway through the book and Gale describes almost the exact bomb that is used on Prim. A first goes off, then a second after medics can rush in. So she recognizes it when it’s used.
My take: Prim is not representing innocence but what Katniss is “fighting” for- Prim is motivation incarnate. In the first book Prim/ the motivation is to protect those she loves (Prim, Rue, Peeta.) In catching fire we learn that Prim is good at helping people- Katniss learns she must help the district 12 tributes and is not sure how she’ll be a good helper. Then when she enters the games her goal is to help Peeta win. In the last book Prim becomes rebel and Katniss eventually does as well. Prim is being prepped to be a doctor (the lead of a medical team.) Katniss is being prepped to be a leader- if a figure head (which honestly a lot of docs are as well, lol.) In the end when she votes yes, “For Prim.” it is a yes for her motivation. And at that point Katniss’s motivation is to end the war. She votes yes so she can kill Coin and end the Hunger Games once and for all.
the reason Katniss says yes to the hunger games is so that Coin would let her kill snow, because up to this point it was not set in stone that she would. She says yes because she knows this is what Coin wants to hear and in Coins mind she thinks that Katniss is finally on her side. However in that moment Katniss realizes that snow is no longer a threat, if she doesn't kill him someone else will. Instead, Coin asking for a symbolic hunger games is sort of the last straw for her and makes Katniss realize that Coin is no different than Snow and has become the threat to the freedom of Panem. So in this moment Katniss realizes what she has to do and in saying yes she never actually wants the symbolic hunger games to take place, she is just using it as a tool to get close enough to Coin to take her out.
I recently reread the series as an adult too and I definitely was able to appreciate it in a different way than when I was a kid. I was not very empathetic as a kid and didn’t understand why Gale was not the right choice in the end. As an adult who has had more life experiences I definitely see why Peeta was always the choice she was going to make and I appreciated his character more. Mockingjay used to be my least favorite in the trilogy but after reading it again I actually think I enjoyed it the most in some ways.
I feel the same way!! I didn’t even remember a lot of mockingjay because I didn’t care much about it but I love it now, there’s so many intricacies and deeper meanings to be found!!
I feel like Gale and Peeta’s ark show the fault in their principals. Gales story ends with him going to far and losing his ‘soul’ and destroying innocence, in the name of ‘it’s war’. While Peeta shows that if you don’t find a line to stand up for what is ‘right’ and fight back against evil, then you will be used to damage what’s ‘right’
Gale let the life in the district and war to change him and for him the ends justify the means (remember how he told Katniss that there IS no difference between killing an animal and killing a human) and Peeta "showed them they dont own him" in every sense of that sentence - even though Peeta suffered in the games and the war way more than Gale
I think Peeta really represents hope. He represents a better future, an optimistic outlook. Her dandelion in the spring who could see her insecurity and crime and still accept her. And that really melds well with her inability to be anything more than pragmatic. Whereas Gale still has desires but he’s pessimistic, always seeing the worst in people. And I think Katniss needed to see both those sides to be grounded
This is a great analysis. I read the books when I was the intended audience and then reread them this year as a 27 year old too. I think it’s of great value to reread them as an adult, because you can understand the nuances so much more!
THIS IS SO COOL. You made tons of good points that I've never thought of before. Especially the point of Katniss hating herself because Peeta was her concious and Gale was her hatred/fire.
I feel like Haymitch was just a reflection of how you can be a winner in the games, but in the end you don’t win shit. 🥺 I HATED that Finnick died. I was so mad. He deserved his happy ending with his true love. Ugh. Idc idc. 💖 I feel like the Tigress hated Coreo because he was selling tributes to the capital for “secs” and she had to sell herself to help them survive when they were younger so I think she was disgusted that he would do that to those kids. In Mockingjay they make it seem like Tigress was over Snow because she got so many enhancements but nah. I don’t buy it. Katniss knew about the secondary bombs because Gale (I believe) mentioned that this would be a great plan to get capital citizens to turn on Snow. Love the content 💖 my bad for this long ass comment 😂
I'm not sure if there's any great metaphorical meaning behind Katniss voting "Yes" to another Hunger Games. I think it was literally just a choice she made so that she could have an opportunity to kill Coin. The deal was, if she voted "Yes," then she would get to kill Snow, which would give her the opportunity she needed to kill Coin instead (Snow was dying anyway, plus the people would never have let him live. Pretty sure the mob killed him, btw, not his illness). She knew Coin wouldn't be able to resist being there, and it would let Katniss be in her presence with a weapon. The intention was never for there to _actually_ be another Hunger Games. Coin's death would end that. BTW, I don't think Haymitch knew _exactly_ what she was thinking, but he trusted that she had her reasons. That's why he said, "I'm with the Mockingjay," rather than actually voting Yes or No.
this was SUCHHH a good video wow. absolutely ate it up. i think you were absolutely correct in basically everything you said and i really appreciate hunger games analyses in the year 2024
Love your point about Katniss being the only changing character. A lot of stories are thought experiments, functioning as much as possible like literal science experiments. THG may be one of the purest distillations of that. And what is one of the core principles of experiment design? You keep every factor the same across iterations, except one. Katniss is our independent variable. Not sure of what, though; I'm still chewing on this. I'll have to come back later as my thoughts develop :)
So you are saying Peeta doesn't change? He goes from madly in love to tortured and hyjacked to despising Katniss to relearning what is real and not to choosing to be with her. Also Prim goes from a scared and innocent child to a wise-for-her-age fearless healer. Even the cat changes after loosing Prim.
I majored in English Lit and one of my college professors once told us that characters are never people, but rather symbols. That helped me a lot in my analysis of literature. That is not to say, of course, that they can't be realistic or have character growth, but rather that they can't be analyzed through psychology or any other medium we would use to understand a real person, but that they must be studied for what they represent. They can represent multiple complex ideas, of course.
I think Prim represents the people we are fighting for in a war. In other words, who we are going to war for, whether is a brother, a lover or a friend. The people who soldiers are thinking about back home when they are fighting at war.
Around the 20 min mark you asked how Katniss just - knew this was coming. Gale told everyone that plan. In an act of unethical ‘do whatever it takes’, Gale offers up a really hideous idea and Katniss even says, ‘woah dude that got way too dark’. It doesn’t really make Sense for the capitol to bomb its own children. But Gale’s plan to lure them in, hurt them, and then let them all come to help the hurt ( only to kill anyone there ) was one that immediately struck a chord because of How the kids were lured in by the ‘help’ from the Games packages. And that’s what kills her innocence completely.
I also think why Katniss believed Snow about Coin killing the children was because as you stating in the beginning, Snow never shyed away from being the bad guy, he knew he was bad and evil and never lied about it (only tried justifying it). Coin on the other hand was sneaky, manipulative and thus sowed distrust in katniss from the start, the nail on the head being she tried to justify in the end, how placing the capital kids in the hunger games would be beneficial to the rebels justice (while also not taking fault for the bombs). Katniss then knew right away that Snow was right. Coin still followed some ideologies of Snow and that was dangerous, but she would be a modified, sneaky, manipulative version of his ideals. The Hunger games never ended with Snow, but they would end with Coin, she would make sure of that.
I think Katniss agreeing to the hunger games is to momentarily quell the bloodlust of coin. by saying yes, Katniss not only earns Coins satisfaction and momentary trust, but she also gets to view coin in her most powerful and oppressive state. After this agreement to Coin's proposal, Coin is much more willing to let Katniss kill snow but is also more comfortable making a spectacle of it (even feeling safe enough to stand right behind Katniss' target) it's this agreement that allows Coin to bask in her glory of success and become a dictator just as snow was (two sides of the same 'Coin') and eases the guilt/hesitancy Katniss has for doubting and eventually killing Coin (it also makes it easier for her to see that Coin is the bigger threat than Snow at this point)
Katniss knew about the second wave of bombs because it’s what Gale told her about earlier in the book. Drop a few bombs to go off to bring in the medics and then set off the second wave. It’s the moment that ends any chance of her getting with Gale over Peeta.
I always thought that Katniss only agreed to the "Symbolic, Last" Hunger games in order to guarantee herself a chance to kill Coin. If killing Prim was to ensure Katniss's loyalty (similarly to Snow killing Haymitch's loved ones a quarter of a century earlier), Katniss needed to show her willingness to go along with whatever Coin suggested, including publicly disagreeing with Peeta, to prove to Coin that Katniss was "with Coin". Failure to agree with Coin may not have stopped the Games, but may well have removed any chance Katniss would have had of taking out Coin, "for Prim".
Very smart evaluation! I quite liked it! 👏👏👏 Concerning Katniss' mom. I used to really dislike her as well, until I met someone with a similar story. This person was not really close to their mother. They were much closer to their father. Their siblings and father died earlier than expected, and they two were the last members of their family alive. They were just okay with each other, not a lot of love either way. After the heartache and loss the mother experienced, she just became distant (and probably depressed), and they simply continued to exist in the way they each chose to go. I used to think Katniss' mom was awful for not taking care of her kids, but after experiencing depression I can see why she might just fade away.
Prim represents more than just innocence/the next generation. While we don’t learn MUCH about Prim, we learn that she’s compassionate (taking in the stray cat) and a natural healer. From this I see two interpretations. The first is that she represents healing and peace. She dies by Gale’s invention, by Gale’s perspective that the ends justify the means. This perspective literally kills the possibility for peace and healing because it simple perpetuates war and violence. If neither side has any limits, there’s nothing to stop an escalation from happening nor is there any incentive to stop the fighting. This is also supported by the fact that Coin - who also justifies violence if it means getting what she wants- was the one who approved her to go to the front lines. It cements the fact that holding this perspective- rebuilding a country with this perspective- would make peace and healing impossible. It would simply bring them back to square one, this time under a new tyrant and a new group to torture. The second interpretation is that Prim is the ability to value the humanity and lives of others . She always saw the humanity of others and tried to help them- to heal them. You could even argue that by healing and saving people that she was literally giving their humanity back to them. She saw them and got to know them as people, not statistics or canon fotter. Coin and to a lesser extent Gale see humanity as a collective- the “good guys” and “bad guys.” The bad guys need to be stopped at any cost- the humanity of neither side matters. The REBEL medics were disposable- no longer people to be saved but pawns to be used. The value of human life is killed when they are viewed as means to an end.
I'm not always great at analyzing text so I'm so grateful when people break it down like this -- your take on Peeta's brainwashing is EXCELLENT, it adds so much. I never would have thought about it quite like that on my own lol. Just the way you broke down just what Peeta and Gale represent and how it impacts each event in the book is great. Mockingjay has always been my favorite of the trilogy, which I've always felt has been kind of a hot take because when we were all kids and read it for the first time SO many people hated it because of what happened to Finnick and Prim. But the fact that you're able to analyze the book like this shows how intentional everything was, and just because it was upsetting to read about their deaths doesn't make it bad or pointless. And I agree, it's so gratifying to be able to read these books again as an adult and being able to pick up on things that went over our heads as kids.
imho the reason why she said yes to "one last" hunger games was because, yes, she did decide to kill coin in that moment. she realized that coin had no intention of these hunger games being the last ones and that she had no intention of stepping down as an "interim" president. however, if she said no she would be firmly in the enemy camp for coin and would definitely not be trusted with killing snow and therefore would have the opportunity to kill coin.
I LOVE the video "Why Did Katniss Agree to a Symbolic Hunger Games" by The Geek Apprentice because it does a really good job explaining not only Katniss's decisions to both vote yes and kill Coin, but it also explores the relationship between Katniss and Haymitch in a way I appreciate
Katniss knows what is going to happen before the second bombs go off because previously in the book Gale had described a trap like it, injuring some so that more come to help, then releasing a second wave. Then there was discussion about how to make that trap on a bigger scale. In that moment she recognizes what is about to happen, that they succeeded on making Gale's trap on a large scale.
I always thought her agreeing to the last games was her showing Coin she was going to fall in line so Coin will let her assassinate Snow, because she knew that was the only way Coin would let Katniss near her with a weapon.
Katniss voted for the capitol children hunger games to lull Coin into a false sense of security so Coin would believe she had successfully corrupted Katniss. Sure, there probably is deeper meaning as well but that is the primary reason.
She agreed to the games to convince coin to trust her enough to kill snow and also be present in his execution without protection seeing as she would feel no threat from Katniss now believing she was on her side after voting in favor of her capitol hunger games, the suggestion of which is what tuned Katniss in to the knowledge that what Snow had told her was indeed correct and it was Coin who bombed the children after all as she’s now shown to be more than happy putting them in a hunger games of their own. Along with an attempt to turn everyone against Snow for killing so many innocent children, Coin specifically had those bombs ordered to drop to target Prim, while at the same time sending her directly to the front lines to meet them, as punishment for Katniss not being on her side if Prim was dead Katniss not only loses her fight, she would harbor even more vitriol and resentment against the capitol which in Coin’s mind would result in Katniss fully succumbing to her. Katniss then flawlessly pretended to do that exact thing.
I just want to say that I really really appreciate this video. I have my own feelings about what specific characters represent and things. But I really appreciate your analysis and the amount of thought you've clearly put in to making this video. this is the strange thing to be thanking somebody for but thank you for earnestly engaging with a piece of media.
I don't think it's any coincidence that Gale is so much like Katniss, from his interests, strength, rebelliousness, and even physically he looks so much like her, it's easy to assume they are related. But Peeta reflects Prim far more - he is kind, gentle, and has her sort of blonde hair and blue eyes. For the first two novels I shipped Katniss and Gale, to me, they just made more sense. By the end of the third novel I finally understood Katniss and Peeta. Katniss and Gale are so much alike, they find comfort in each other but don't really bring out the best in each other. Peeta's kindness is something that softens Katniss' hard, logical mind; she in turn is able to protect him and give him strength.
I followed you just because of this video. I am #teampeeta but boi am I tired of the Gale hate and people misunderstanding what Gale was to the series (if they still don't get it, he represents the rebels and the districts and their feelings of rage and injustice towards the capitol to give Katniss and the reader that perspective) So glad that people are starting to point this out. Could he have done better, of course, that's the point, but love triangle or not, his feelings are valid to the story.
Love love love this video! Amazing explanation - I've always loved Peeta and Katniss and youve explained the great meaning and symbolism with their relationship and what Katniss represents throughout the trilogy (things I wouldnt have thought about).
For the longest time, that scene where she says she wants another hunger games drove me crazy - because I took her seriously. I just reread the books, though, and now I think that was her (and Hamish) making sure that she would maintain that opportunity to kill Coin. Coin wanted her to be so distracted by her rage over Prim’s death that she would no longer pose a threat to her - she would just throw herself behind Coin. So voting that way would confirm to Coin that Katniss wasn’t a threat to her and relax her enough that she would stand there in front of an armed Katniss, convinced of her own safety and success. So yes, Katniss did vote that way *for Prim* - it was to guarantee her to keep that opportunity to stop the true killer of all those innocent children.
I think this is a good analysis. I think it would make the most sense, though, if we see Prim as representing Katniss's innocence specifically, rather than the concept of innocence generally. Also, I think it's sort of a false choice between characters being characters and them representing something symbolically. They are just different layers of meaning.
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She said, "Yes, for Prim." Snow didn't kill Prim, Coin did.
Wait this is such a good catch I totally missed that!!
I think she only said that in the movie, not in the book. Of course, since Suzanne Collins was involved in writing the script the fact that it’s not in the book doesn’t take any weight away from its meaning imo.
@tephwilliams she says it in the book too
@@analunaaaa Ah, now I think about it I think I confused that with another line.
@@tephwilliams she does say it in the books and we get her stream of thoughts as she watches Haymitch “now we’ll see how alike we are” (paraphrasing) and imo rereading it you get that he never trusted coin, like Cina he always sided with Katniss and bet on her, I think he also understood that Snow had no benefit to kill all the Capitol children idk if he was also in the room when Gale and Beady talk about the double explosion model
to me katniss agrees to the hunger games to gain coin's trust and make her think she's convinced snow killed her sister and she's consumed by that rage so coin doesn't see her plan of killing her coming
Same I think as soon as Coin said she was installing herself as president Katniss knew it wasn't over.
ooh good point, but could Coin have pulled out of the execution at that point? Maybe she could’ve had someone else do it if she didn’t trust Katniss enough!!
@@meredithnovaco also in the book she agrees and then says 'for prim' which I think massively hints to the fact that she's tricking coin because she's subtly saying 'I know you killed prim' - maybe this is also an indicator to haymitch too as she's testing if he 'truly understands her' (and maybe extending to whether us the audience also truly understand her too or her motivations as this is one of the only times we only recieve her action- saying yes to the new games - without getting a private view into katniss' thoughts or motivations on why she says yes - we like haymitch have to figure it out ourselves)
Also as others have she needed to make coin trust her to actually be able to be a part of the execution. And through tricking coin to gain her trust, the 'final shot of the war' is used on coin because as you said she is no different to snow, so the war between districts and the oppressor (13 becoming the new capitol) wouldn't actually end if coin ended up in power
I do think that coin simply just believed that she had successfully radicalised Katniss, especially because of the death of prim (probably intentionally caused by coin) - and because she believed katniss was broken down enough, katniss could do the final bidding of the war being to kill snow. With katniss being a war symbol it would make the most sense in terms of propaganda for katniss to do the execution. Coin wouldn't want katniss to be viewed as a diplomatic figure after the war as it would weaken coins rise to power. Getting katniss to do the execution associates katniss firmly with the war period and the end of snows era and through katniss being historically remembered as a rebel/radical/war figure it makes it quite impossible for people to then view her as a potential president (trauma/war/people want to start fresh) - making it a lot easier for coin to then sweep in after snows execution - (coin didn't really make many public appearances to the districts or the capitol - she got other rebels and katiss to do the dirty work so none of the blood would be associated with her)
Sorry I waffled a looottt but hence she still used katniss as her executor and symbolic end of war despite still maybe not fully trusty her, katniss showing her (fake) support gave her enough evidence to believe that she had broken her down enough to use her
@@meredithnovacoTrue but that is why she makes the demand that she be the one to kill Snow before she votes yes to the games. It's actually very masterful on Katniss part. She gets Coin to let down her guard so that she will be there front and center to execute, avenges Prim's death, and makes sure the games she voted for will never actually happen because Coin says she will announce it after the execution.
That makes sense. I always read her killing Coin as a spur of the moment thing, where she's standing there in the moment and realizes that killing Coin would do more than killing snow. While Katniss certainly could've (and likely did) plan it, the books have made it known that Katniss is not one for being subtle and hiding plans. She IS one for acting in the moment, though. I never even really thought about it being premeditated haha! Katniss is just so spontaneous that I just assume most things she does are spur of the moment.
My favorite quote from the book is “There are still moments where he clutches a chair in the dining room and I still wake up screaming from nightmares of lost children but his arms are there to comfort me and eventually his lips and after when he asks:You love me real or not real? I answer real
It’s so beautiful!! Her writing is really gorgeous, it’s very inspiring
Yes, I love how both of their trauma doesn't magically go away because they are in love.
@@sabiha.sayeed yes I think my trauma keeps me from maintaining a relationship and the fact that I went to a all girls school makes it hard for me to keep a relationship
@@nmoney6655 You're right. Trauma does get in the way of maintaining relationships. I hope you can find happiness, whether that is in a relationship or outside it. Take care of yourself.
This is my favvvvv line
I think it is really interesting that Coin is the only person Katniss actually kills out of choice and not out of survival throughout the whole series.
She killed Prim
I think coin killed prim not katniss
i think it may be because coin is so dangerous. she can be just as evil as snow but much more conniving and manipulative. like it was mentioned in the video snow thinks people should be rules by an iron fist and coin rules people with the illusion of choice and freedom. hell, snow is threatening katniss and her family constantly but never truly gets them, meanwhile coin knowingly killed prim without a second thought while smiling in katniss’ face. she wanted katniss to die on film and use her image. snow was already shown to be evil to all of panem. snow is a whole lot of bark with a bit of bite. coin bites with no warning. coin feels her end justifies all the means. and that’s dangerous for a nation like panem at a time like that where the capital was falling and there was so much anger to take advantage of.
this is so beautifully wrote omg@@skunkskiestink6620
@@skunkskiestink6620 i agree! like the name suggests, i think coin is flightly and flippy, like a coin. the fact that all the interactions with her are so cryptic and uncertain that it keeps you on your toes the whole time. like you said, she could strike at any moment. that is not a leader that provides stability and katniss quickly notices, even when she may not realise it. snow is a snake assuming the position of one, whereas coin is a snake in the grass who can catch people unawares.
I like the idea that Coin purposefully sent Katniss into danger hoping she would die to become a martyr that she could control the image of as she couldn’t control Katniss
I'm pretty confident that the book explicitly makes that point. There is no other reason Coin would send Peeta in with Katniss's team. If it had all worked out for Coin, Peeta would have killed Katniss, either indirectly or directly, and Coin could use this to sow distrust of all people directly involved with the capital. Plus Katniss would be a martyr that carries the war to its end while no longer posing a threat to her rule. Maybe thats not made clear in the movie but its made very clear (in my opinion) in the book.
Coin never wanted Katniss she always wanted Peeta because peeta unlike katniss is good at speaking and is more manageable
@@emalinepeeler9946idk about the book but in mj pt2 Katniss is literally told by her group leader(commander) that Coin probably wants her dead or doesn't mind if she dies because Katniss has played out her role in the rebellion
@@emalinepeeler9946 Or maybe Coin knew Katniss would be willing to die to keep Peeta safe and then she could have used Katniss as martyr of sorts.Or maybe Coin was thinking that if Katniss died that could have forced Peeta step up and be the face of the rebellion while Coin pulled strings behind the scenes to manipulate Peeta.
@@yellowflashgamer5460 I'm actually reading the book right now, and this is said verbatim there aswell. It isn't a theory in either adaptation.
Your point about how Prim isn't very fleshed out as a character also shows the reason why Rue is so powerful. We know that Rue isn't Prim, but that she represents Prim in a lot of ways for Katniss. We see through her how much Katniss loves Prim and wants to protect her. It helps build our understanding of Katniss as a character, but not Prim. And that also contributes to the true gut punch at the end of the series. Prim showing up in the Capitol is a complete shock to Katniss and a complete shock to us. She's kept growing up where Rue stopped. It's a hell of a challenge for Prim to be such a pivotal character and such a huge part of Katniss's motivation throughout the series while remaining largely off the page/screen, and Rue's role in the first Games very much contributes to the cohesiveness of the whole.
I also feel like a good part of that is because of Katniss as well. We're limited to her pov and her feelings and opinions of her sister which is mostly little sis she has to protect from everything.
Oh man. I didn't think about that before. The reason we don't see much of Prims sudden change is bc Katniss misses so much of Prims growth. She's being constantly ripped away from her and we're forced to live with the same distance Katniss is forced into to having with her family.
@@JBFJBFJBF yeah and i feel it contributes to the shock that prim actually grew up. it's sort of like carrying your niece or nephew when they were infants, then not seeing them for a few years, and meeting up again and being surprised that they can walk and talk now
katniss has these moments where she realizes prim is no longer a girl with an untucked shirt duck tail, but someone who's had to survive horrors, and the change is sudden and jarring
yes prim and rue both plainly represent the innocent and the least protected and in this situation literal children of panem. it’s very interesting that we have both rue and prim because it does later create that parallel where rue is forever remembered as a child and not only that but the epitome of innocence in the games, and prim gets to grow up, genuinely advise and care for katniss, and even join the rebellion (still as this very honorable innocent doctor) but picking a side regardless and giving her life for the rebellion. in the end katniss lost them both but prim grew just enough to stand up for herself somewhat against the capital
@@JBFJBFJBF Also maybe Katniss been in the games forced Prim to step up and be there for their mother and even had to plan what they would do if Katniss died.Plus Prim might have felt responsible for Katniss been in the games since Katniss volunteered in her place and so as a result Prim took on more responsibility in Katniss's absence.
Katniss knew about the 2nd bombs because it was an idea Gale had and I believe he spoke about the idea before and worked on it with Beetee
Yep, exactly this. She heard Gale talk about this type of attack. It was part of why she couldn't look at Gale again later on. He recognized it too and hated himself for his plan being used to hurt people he cared for.
He did and reminding him of it is basically how she told him to go, she was going with Peeta
@@elyserhyne243he only regretted it bc it hurt Katniss and killed her sister. He didn’t care that innocent children were murdered bc of where they grew up. That’s a war crime.
When Katniss's dad died, her mom fell apart and was unable to care for her children. They talk at some point about how she needed a medicine, like it was extreme clinical depression, but she didn't have the ingredients or the willpower to get them. Katniss can't forgive her because Katniss had to become the adult, when she was 11 and also grieving. When Katniss believes Peeta is dead, and when Prim dies, she reacts in basically the same way her mom did and becomes suicidal and catatonic. She doesn't have kids though, so it's allowed. I think her mom doesn't come back to live in 12 because, like it says explicitly, she can't live with the memories of her dead husband and daughter, but also she can't face Katniss, who has always been unforgiving of her grief, even though and maybe especially because they grieve in similar ways. When the only one left is someone who cannot hold space for your breakdown, you wouldn't go live with her.
I also hated Katniss's mom when I first read the books fifteen years ago, now that I am 30 I see her very differently... She's a very tragic figure to me. I wish I knew her name.
there's a scene in the very end, when katniss begins to recover that she says she called her mom and all they did was cry together, to me that scene was very powerful, it felt like they were finally able to connect and move forward. I like to think that her mom came to visit katniss and meet her grandchildren after some years.
Oh my god I hate her mom too, like, imagining just stop being a mother because your husband died, and remember the scene when Katniss comes home and her mom is all “you’re not allowed to have a boyfriend” um…… that’s not what you say to your traumatized child who was fighting to the death
Idk why i could never hate katniss mom. I feel angry bc i think my dad messed my mom up so bad that she didn’t shield me from reality enough in childhood, so i saw and knew too much abt our poverty but then i was also weirdly sheltered. It’s hard man
@@Lalaland666-k3xher mom literally is a traumatized person, yeah she was a bad parent but you can’t just pretend that she’s another human with feelings. I have no kids so idk what it’s like and she should’ve tried harder for her kids, but reacting to the world they live in isn’t only for Katniss, other ppl are dealing with shit too. Is a weeping child more important than a weeping mother? No, no less or no more, they’re both important. They both suffer in that awful world.
@@diabloakland yeah but the thing is is the fact how Katniss, when she was ELEVEN had to take care of her mom and sister, she was trying to keep her and her sister from going into an orphanage and keep her mom out of trouble while her mom didn’t help her at all, when Katniss was selected and was able to see her mom and Prim she was literally telling her mom how to look after Prim, she literally yelled at her saying that she had to parent her and give her a chance of a somewhat normal life, I’m not saying that Katniss’s mom doesn’t have trauma, but going into full on grief mode forever after your husband dies forcing your eleven year old child to hunt, trade, and look after the family is beyond messed up in my book, just because she’s traumatized doesn’t mean she had to traumatize Katniss and Prim, she also never got or ever tried to get better, for herself, for Katniss, or for Prim
i saw someone say katniss says yes to the games “for prim” as a test for coin. katniss KNEW prim would never want another hunger games, she literally sacrificed her own life to save capital children, and coin not seeing that is pretty much katniss’ final confirmation that coin never cared about prim, and was just as bad as snow. “for prim” also works in a different sense: prim and other innocent children were killed in an enclosed area, at the hands of coin, in order to send a political message, similar to the structure of the hunger games. so in a way, katniss ALREADY saw coin’s version of the hunger games play out. ifl this shows how katniss was never really saying yes to coin, she was just following a plan.
Ooh okay I can totally see this, especially with how Coin already killed a bunch of capitol children like you said!! Also because the bombs they dropped were like the things they dropped in the hunger games 👀👀 you convinced me I think you’re right!!
it makes more sense when you see Haymitch's reaction, Katniss even say that was time for her to see if he really knows her well, and he says "I'm with the Mockinjay", he never said yes, he never said he was with Katniss, he said he was with the symbol of the rebelion that was going to bring freedom to the districts, far away from the hands of dictators like Snow AND COIN, he really understood what she was up to, Haymitch would never agree to a new hunger games, just like Katniss
@@sarahharuka2811 Yes I totally agree with this take. It's made clear many times in the books that Katniss and Haymitch are extremely like minded and thus have a unique understanding of each other . They trust each other because of that understanding and then will react off of it. This was most pointed out when Katniss was dying of thirst in the arena but Haymitch wasn't sending water and she realized by not doing so he was actually telling her she was near water ..as she indeed was. Haymitch like Katniss isn't stupid and most likely already had his own doubts about Coin. This very suggestion of a symbolic Hunger Games would have sealed for him that Coin was a potentially worse version of Snow. He also realized Katniss knew it too and was up to something because he indeed would know Prim wouldn't want that. He basically was choosing to trust the person he knew he could in that situation..Katniss in her role as the Mockingjay.
I thought Katniss's saying "For Prim" wasn't her saying the games would be the price of vengeance for Prim's death, or as a test for Coin. I thought the "For Prim" was so she could get close enough to Coin with weapon in hand to kill her in vengeance for Prim, and also to end the games forever, in Prim's honor.
As a lesbian who didn’t have many feelings for peeta nor gale (I did want her to end with peeta though) I always saw them as ideologies. One person who is more gentle not as confrontational about things (peeta) and one who is more brute force who was willing to do “bad things” for a “good cause”. I always thought peeta was a good choice for katniss because she complimented him and they balanced eachother. Katniss already was very much a fighter and protector she needed someone who was sweeter and most gentle, someone to take care of her and worry about her wounds. I think gale was meant to represent fire which katniss already had so peeta was the water that brings down her flames. I think it was a great way to get the ideologies across while getting young readers interested in the romance. Many people like to focus on the love triangle but the closer you look at it the more clear cut the themes are which can make ir more digestible for younger audiences.
Yes exactly!! It makes me kind of sad now bc there’s so many people saying “what was the point, just cut gale out” but I feel like the whole series loses sooooo much deeper meaning if you do that!! Thanks for watching ❤️
that's literally what the book says about Katniss and Peeta at the end. that she has plenty of fire on her own and what she needed was spring which peeta represented and brought into her life.
“What I need to survive is not Gale's fire, kindled with rage and hatred. I have plenty of fire myself. What I need is the dandelion in the spring. The bright yellow that means rebirth instead of destruction. The promise that life can go on, no matter how bad our losses. That it can be good again. And only Peeta can give me that.”
- Katniss in Mockingjay
I agree, Peeta was like prim. I noticed in the last book the roles seem to be reversed between prim in katniss - in the first book it’s katniss taking care of prim but by mockingjay, it’s prim who has to look after an emotionally unstable and scarred katniss, tucking her in bed, comforting her, healing her wounds. When prim was gone Peeta filled her place in a kind of way.
may i ask (i'm non-binary), why did you mention you are a lesbian? did you think it was relevant to your point? if so, i missed that facet/pov--can you say more?
It's also really interesting that Peeta loses his leg in the first game. Katniss is shocked that he couldn't be healed. I think it's symbolism for the games damages damaging her moral compass that she had before. She was horrified at the suggestion of murder before the game
I am very anti love triangle EXCEPT for Gale and Peeta, and its for the exact reasons you said. Maybe its because i was older when I read the trilogy and in the middle of my english lit degree but i immediately caught on to the fact that Peeta and Gale were metaphors for Katniss' choices. Both of those boys were absolutely necessary in the books.
Exactly!!! I agree I hate love triangles when that’s all it is, I just want love story. But as a metaphor? Sign me up!!
This is why I’m only frustrated with the triangle in the movies because it feels like they pushed it and focused on it more than in the books. It felt too much like jumping on the twilight bandwagon in the movies while in the books it always felt clear to me what they represented. And in part that’s due to katniss’ inner monologue but at the same time it’s just the differences in the focus they chose to highlight I think
I remeber these guys as ones of the few love interests (ish) that i can actually recall and characterize
I love the metaphor and i appreciate how in the end she ends up with a softer person (im sooo tired of love interests being buff and brute and hyper masculine), which is kinda rare
But i dont really see a love triangle here
Katniss doesnt seem to consider Gale much, everytime they kissed was either his intiative or she felt guilty/overwhelmed/tried to comfort
I still dont really see it as a love triangle. Katniss never showed signs of liking Gale romantically. In fact Gale gave off so many red flags before Mockingjay that imo peeta was the only option long before Mockingjay. Mockingjay is when she realized who her bestfriend truly was and she realized she didnt like that person at all the final nail was prim's death. Gale and Katniss always protected their siblings they were the parental figures so when Gale killed prim it was a betrayal that cut too deep that was how their friendship started and thats how it ended.
@@glitzdancer I disagree in the movies outside of Gale imterest in Katniss I never saw much from katniss in the film just like the book. If anything the fanbase projected a love triangle that was never there
The fan theory of Tigres’s story between Ballad and Mokingjay is that she becomes a stylist for the games (which was confirmed in Mockingjay) and due to nepotism was given her preferred tributes to style, which ended up being district 4.
She continued to live her capitol life. However, once she realized the fate of Finnick after he won his games, she drew parallels to herself and how she had to traffic herself in order to support her family (particularly her cousin, Snow).
This enraged her, as President Snow was well aware of her personal history. So she started to evolve her physical appearance to change her affiliation with her family and became a district sympathizer, then eventually giving her full support to the rebels.
From what I remember, in the Ballad of Songbirds and Snakes when Coriolanus found out what Tigris (and Lucy Gray) had to do, he seemed more disgusted than anything else, so I guess he never managed to empathise with her
@@auxangessthere’s multiple accounts in TBOSAS where snow is disgusted with both tigris and lucy gray at the prospect of them having to sell themselves to feed their families. it doesn’t come across like he has empathy for either, more so anxious about how people will perceive his family or jealousy over lucy gray (snow is such a weirdoooo)
@@auxangess he feels more disgusted and wronged by the idea of someone related 2 him doing things like this, felt like superiority complex also ? that no matter what he's done and will do he's better and more of a worthy person, not like THIS & not reaching that level of low ever
18:46 I read a theory somewhere that Tigris started hating Snow when he began prostituting the Hunger Games victors out to capitol citizens. It's implied in BOSBAS that Tigris herself had to resort to prostitution during the Dark Days in order to keep the Snows from starving to death, and it makes sense that finding out that her cousin is trafficking victors (children, essentially) would put her over the edge. At that point she's still a costume designer for the games but begins making her costumes progressively more rebellious in any little way she can find, and eventually Snow gets sick of it and fires her
fascinating deep dive! however, i think i disagree about Prim being "innocence" (i made the same conclusion at first, but after mulling it over...) I think Rue represented innocence in book1, but Prim represents "the way things were" or "happier times" so the reason we don't see much of Prim but Katniss has this idealized image of her is because over time memory fogs and fades. We long for that simpler time, the time before now, but we forget that those days also had struggles. Since we don't know a lot of detail about Katniss's past except things here and there, it makes sense that Prim (who represents this concept) is only seen from time to time. Thus Prim's death is the moment of Katniss realizing things can NEVER go back to how they were. That the world is not completely uncertain and there is nothing to anchor onto.
Or maybe i'm an idiot, it's really up in the air.
Anyway, awesome video. Keep at it ^_^
Ooh no you’re definitely not an idiot, I love this take!! I think it could go either way, especially because they kill the other kids with the bombs and that could be “innocence” too so it would be a lot for Prim to represent that as well
LOL thank you for your confidence, lovely ^_^@@meredithnovacosometimes it feels like i put far too much thought, like that 1 english/lit teacher trying to sound profound about the curtains being bleu -- but it's kind of fun to overthink, and i enjoy the chats and PoV of other over thinkers :)
I never thought of it that way, but that makes so much sense!
Especially with the things Katniss says in the Epilogue about how she and Peeta have flashbacks and nightmares that will never go away, but they've learned to manage them and Peeta makes her believe "things can be good again".
Prim represented Katniss being a mom imo. Katniss pratically raised that girl. Katniss always said she has never wanted kids and prim represented her maternal instincts and foreshadows Katniss having her own kids at the end of mockingjay
@@morleywritesbooksI’d argue that Prim is neither representative of „innocence“ nor „the happy past“ per se, but she represents „innate goodness“: that’s why she is linked to Katniss‘ happier memories from the past at first, but she transcends that. It’s Prim‘s goodness that keeps them both going in District 13 and why she becomes a field medic. And when she’s killed Katniss is indeed grieving her anchor to her past, but she’s also losing the hope for a better future akin to „if even the truly good people die, what chances (and right) do I have to go on?“
At least that’s how I always interpreted it. 😊
I like the theory that Katniss said yes to the “final” Hunger Games in order to guarantee that she would have the chance to kill Coin. Remember, they also repeated ‘if you’re not with her, you’re against her’ in regards to Coin. If Katniss had said no, she probably wouldn’t have been given the chance to do the execution. She said yes in order to trick Coin into giving Katniss the chance to kill her. That’s also my theory as to why Haymitch agreed with her. When she says “this is the moment we find out how alike we really are”, I think it’s implying that Haymitch realizes, even if only partially, what all Katniss has realized and he supports her in order to stay on Coin’s good side and to show that he understands Katniss without outright telling Katniss, since they didn’t have much opportunity to talk, especially without being watched/recorded.
Also, the reason Katniss is able to know what is happening with the final bombs is that it’s the same design that Beetee and (mainly) Gale (that specific bomb design is thought up by Gale) were talking about down in the lab in 13 with Katniss earlier in the book. That’s another reason why she realized that Coin dropped the bombs, not Snow. The specific design of the bomb, plus Prim being there, plus Snow reminding her that they had agreed never to lie to one another (this happened in Catching Fire, before the Victory Tour), knowing how Snow never killed when he didn’t find it necessary, along with her knowing how much Coin hated her and how afraid Coin was of Katniss taking the power from her, all led to her realizing who really dropped the bombs.
Yeah I think Haymitch and katness were always on the same wave length.
YESS I feel like that's the route that makes more sense when thinking about why Katniss (and Haymitch) would say yes to another hunger games when we know since the first book her opinion on the games
Also when Coin named herself interim president without any damn vote, I really knew what was up with her. 😒
yessss that’s exactly what i thought too!
also i think in the trial plutarch would have been advocating for katniss and revealing the evil of president coin. because its from katniss’ pov and she’s so shell shocked about her sister, she isn’t absorbing all the information from the trial. people in 13 knew coin was corrupt and that can be seen when boggs transfers katniss the holo and warns her about staying on coins good side.
Ooh okay you’re so right that they were warning against Coin, maybe they did know she was corrupt and that was part of why they let her go!!
Plus, I think one of the terms of letting her go is that she had to go back to District 12 and drop out of the public eye. Her influence would be done, so she couldn't do any more "harm".
@@DianaW3431 Although Plutarch keeps trying to get her to be part of a new singing show he's developing so maybe not entirely out of the public eye! But I think the implication or stated condition is she can't leave District 12 for at least some prolonged period.
it's been AGES but for me gale has always been a big brother, bitter furious and grief stricken, he's not always a GOOD man or a GOOD brother. but he is all you got so you stick with him. never saw him through a romantic lens
I gotta agree. I think they were more siblings, but knew (at the beginning) that them being together as married (maybe not real romantic partners) was just the natural conclusion in 12
I agree with this because katniss was not interested in a relationship at all. Not at this time.
@@violeta3555Katniss said that herself that people assume her and Gale will marry just because they are bonded over being hunting partners
Ikrrr
gale and peeta feel like foils to me. i especially noticed this when reading catching fire and reading gale's nasty behavior/reaction to katniss upon meeting up with her (with the gloves) to her proposing they leave. and immediately after it shows how peeta reacts to her asking that they leave and it's entirely different and his behavior is healthy for katniss. gale's is completely toxic. seemed very intentional
Gale hate is much appreciated in this comment section
Yeahhh he’s painful to read in the second book the most in my opinion, maybe there’s a deeper meaning to his character but that doesn’t make him less annoying!!
@@meredithnovaco Yeah, gale is the worst. He’s like “oh I know you risked your life and went through unimaginable trauma, but why don’t you love me 🥺“
@@Theweirdunicorn69i wonder if that's the point? That he just... doesn't get it. Kind of that feeling of meeting a childhood friend you had a crush on years later and you're like "oh you're not who I thought you were" when it comes to recontextualized habits or tendencies
It's been years and years since I read the books, but Gale always seemed the more... gung ho about violence when it came to the rebellion. The scene when he picks up the black mechanical bow in Mockingjay comes to mind. It caught Katniss's attention for a reason but I can't remember exactly why
He feels like one of those guys who fantasizes about being a hero and fighting in wars. And I know they literally are but... the vibes y'know?
@@EtamirTheDemiDeer You are spot on Gale has always gave me red flags even in the first book. The way he talks about killing like its easy and that its no different to an animal is scary and Katniss while not aware of who she has feelings for yet it was putoff by it and that grows as the series continues
@@EtamirTheDemiDeer I reread the books during the pandemic and I realized I hated Gale way less this time around.
Because now I understand better that, yeah Gale didn't see violence against the capitol the same wsy as he saw violence BY the capitol. In book 1 he mentions how the class divide within districs exists to make the people hate each other instead of the real enemy, while Katniss barely commented on it.
So Gale was always more politically savy than her. But he also didn't experience being forced to kill a bunch of a kids for the entertainment of the masses, kids he would've seen be just kids also trying to survive.
So between that and the bombing of district 12, I can see how Gale (who once understoo the nuance of the sitaution), has now been radicalized against his enemy.
It's very realistic and heartbreaking.
I still hate how entitled he thinks he is to Katniss' affection tho
Only a few minutes in but...thinking of Gale as the ideology that it doesn't matter what you do or who you kill or how you do it as long as the people are freed in the end, and thinking of Prim as the ones who will come after, and then remembering that Gale is the reason Prim died....it hits hard. How many times have we seen in war or conflict or times of civil unrest that those who are willing to go to extremes sometimes cause setbacks for the very people they claim to fight for?
With gale the ends justified the means until it cost him katniss and prim
It felt like he was willing to win any cost as long as he didn't pay for it
katniss puts together the bombs going off a second time because she heard gale and beetee come up with the idea for the bombs during the earlier events of mockingjay
Im re-listening to the trilogy (Tatiana does INCREDIBLE narration on the free TH-cam version - highly recommend) in my late twenties and Gale suddenly became such a effective character for me. I hold so much sympathy for his situation, and honestly - I believe Katniss and Gale would have had a beautiful life together if she wasn’t reaped in the games. Peeta however BECOMES what she needs to heal. Gale could never be that for her by the end of Mockingjay, and it’s truly bittersweet.
It also adds another layer of why Peeta is the GOAT. He handles Gale and Katniss’s relationship with so much grace and respect it’s honestly mind-blowing.
Will listen to them right now - thanks for the recommendation ❤
I know this is going to sound odd and kinda creepy but to me it felt like Gale was kind of a replacement for Katniss’ father in her life. She hunts with him, he looks like her and he goes to the mine. I think her romantic likeness for Gale is out of guilt for the loss of her father, so (and I think this is stated in the movie) Every time he’s hurt she’ll be romantic with him because she knows he likes her and that will make him happy. She lost her father so she can’t lose his stand in. I think personally even if Katniss didn’t have to go into the games that Gale and her were never endgame because Katniss could never love Gale because whenever she did choose him, she chose her father not Gale.
Oooh this is a good take I love it, it honestly makes so much sense because girls tend to be attracted to men who are like their father which is kind of weird to think abt but makes sense
I think she would have chosen Gale if she didn't went to the Games, but not for the right reasons. Or she would have convinced herself that she loved him romantically, or she would have tolerated her life with him because she would see it as a duty/necessity
I don’t think there is anything wrong with a girl picking a man like their father, specially if they were a very good Man. We learn from our parents on how we should behave and act and then seek out similar people who share those same qualities. Also peta with his gentleness is also like her father and Gayle with his hunting. Though Katniss is the most like her father.
@@naomi7918i dont think she liked Gale romantically she says people just assume she and Gale will get married
@@LE-zy2od Yes exactly, I think she would have convinced this to herself.
in the movies when katniss shot coin and snow laughs, katniss and snow have this moment that i cannot describe for the life of me - there's pride, disbelief, the act of snow honestly giving katniss the pieces to put together and then katniss taking it genuinely? there was so much in that eye contact before snow died. it's my favorite moment in that movie.
Yessss
24:51 i always took it as she needed it to seem like she was on Coins side bc she was already wary of katniss for the entirety of the book and she wouldnt have let her kill snow (even tho she wanted to kill her) if Coin didnt believe she would actually kill HIM
Hmm yeah I’ve been seeing this theory and it’s interesting, I just wonder if Coin could have called off the execution at that point because it was just before? Or if she just wouldn’t have had Katniss do it? All fun questions!!
Katniss agreed to the “last hunger games” so that coin would announce it to the masses before Katniss shot her. So that everyone would know what’s gonna happen if anyone ever decided to have a hunger games again. Katniss wanted everyone to know why coin deserved to die. Katniss killed 2 president snows that day. She knew the people would tear snow apart whether she shot him or not
As a military veteran, former combat medic/ambulance medic, with PTSD: what you said about the tributes @ 16:07 is the reason I give for why I love this series so much (if I'm gonna give just 1). Suzanne Collins REALLY showed what it's like in the head/life of someone with PTSD, and how other presentations of PTSD exist.
I also think Prim was her personal self insert character here, or the self insert of anyone who's put up on an "innocent" pedestal as the "reason why a warrior is fighting." There are a few times in the books (and a few extra in the movies) where Katniss speaks to Prim about things that most folks w/ PTSD never share with the "innocent" and every time she shows a willingness to be there for, not just her sister, but everyone who is suffering through this war. I think, veterans especially, tend to think we need to keep those folks pure/untouched by the things that make us feel broken. And it doesn't help when we try and open up and folks, who say they want to be there for us, treat us like the damaged/insane goods we already feel like. So when someone who ACTUALLY cares (ie Prim, Suzanne Collins, most military brats/sibs) offers help, we unfairly treat them like the assholes who lied about "loving us no matter what" all while glorifying something we don't find much glory in. Suzanne "kills Prim" to put to bed the myth that the innocent can remain untouched by war.
Edit: Wanted to add that Gale is a character who invalidates himself. As you said, he represents "the ends justify the means" which (imo at least) is correct. He even gets biased confirmations that his way is right in this regard. After all, the people who say he's right are the ones actually getting things done, why should he treat the tributes/their experiences with respect? Every time he makes a hard decision, the results and losses are always always always something he can fathom and accept. Heck, his results are often pretty far above the best case scenario results. So he must be doing things right, right? Sure the tributes are practically screaming at him that he'll eventually come to a price he can't pay, but he knows how this works, losses are gonna happen and that's something he knows he can live with. Until Prim. He kills his entire character, his entire worth, everything that matters to him, the moment he knows in his heart that he killed Prim.
Snow dies at the execution I believe from being beat to death by the masses, but he's implied to be dying since his appearance in katniss' house in catching fire. The sickly smell of the roses and his strange appearance. Then he's coughing blood and Katniss hears rumors that he's taken small amounts of poison so many times in order to assassinate rivals that he's slowly poisoned himself over time. He was gonna be dead soon, arrow or not.
Also, fun lil tidbit President Coin is "the other side of the same *coin*"
I personally interpret Haymitch as a living embodiment of the way trauma can lead to bitterness. He’s arguably one of the most bitter characters in the whole series, and he struggles with hope. It’s no accident to me that in one of her darkest moments-right after the Quarter Quell announcement-she goes to Haymitch, not for guidance or insight, but for alcohol and a promise that her life is forfeit. Haymitch represents the bitterness and darkness of trauma, and Katniss is closest to him in her darkest moments. When she goes to see Peeta after he’s been hijacked, who brings her to that moment? Haymitch. When she’s testing Coin to see if she’s really going to kill her, the one she communicates with through eye contact? Haymitch. They’re the last two votes that seal Alma Coin’s fate, and they do so bitterly, and again, Katniss is intending to end her life.
I think Joanna, on this same thread, represents the anger that comes with trauma.
"I don't know how she figured this out." - Girl she literally hears Gale planning out this exact strategy with Beetee and bombs.
I loved the hunger games as a teen and i still do!
For me coin was a representation of the continuation of the status quo being upheld and the systems that have always been around being used. Katniss choosing to kill coin is her choosing to get rid of the last person who still wants the power and control that the old systems give to whomever takes advantage. It’s the death of the old guard. And it opens the way forward for new people to choose their own fate.
This was a really interesting video. I think the point about the tributes being the most fleshed out is a unique observation I haven’t heard anywhere else and may also show where Katniss’s focus is since she’s the POV character. I have just a couple points since I don’t really have anyone to discuss stuff like this with lol.
Firstly, Katniss only voted for the games in the end because she realized she needed to prove her loyalty to Coin. If she had opposed Coin’s proposal, she never would have been given the chance to execute Snow and therefore Coin. That’s why Katniss hopes Haymitch understands what she’s doing and votes with her, not that she actually wants it but it’s her sucking up and getting Coin’s guard down. A theory I tend to believe, not completely but in principle, is that Coin constantly tries to get Katniss killed once she realizes she can’t control her. There’s a whole conspiracy about the bombing in district 8 and how it may have been orchestrated by Coin and especially Peeta getting sent wherever Katniss is and the raid on the capitol. At that point, Katniss is way too much of a loose canon for the calculated and rigid Coin so she’d serve her rebellion better as a martyr, and what better person to kill the Mockingjay than her lover who has been endorsing the Capitol in the war up until that point. It’s still just a big reality tv show, another hunger games but, just like every other time, Katniss defeats the game makers and outlives their planned death for her, even Snow realizes in the end that they’d all been puppets on Coin’s strings and he failed to see the bigger picture.
Also, I personally interpret Peeta as a representation of hope to Katniss rather than morality. Considering what the Capitol does to the people of the districts, there kind of isn’t a way to ask whether the rebels went too far without seeming naive or outright ignorant. Katniss says many times in Mockingjay that Peeta was the better option for a face of the rebellion, she’s cold, unfriendly, impulsive and morbidly cynical while he’s a natural people person, optimistic and very clever. Gale is like her, a direct mirror of her, and that’s why they don’t work together, they feed the worst parts of each other. Gale’s ruthlessness mirrors her own, she kills way more people than Peeta does, and some of her darkest moments are when Peeta’s idealistic image has been corrupted. That’s why he’s the one that stops her from taking the nightshade pill, a manifestation of hope literally stops her from killing herself and pulls her through her grief. That’s why she’s fixated on saving him and is willing to die for him. Katniss and Gale survive together, Katniss and Peeta live, maybe even thrive.
Ooh okay I like your theory on Coin, I do think she was often trying to kill Katniss so I can see where maybe Katniss agreed to placate her so she would still trust her with the arrow!!
For Peeta, I see what you’re saying, I do definitely see how Peeta could represent hope for Katniss!! I think he definitely does but they go hand in hand, like hope is part of what helps people hold onto their humanity through war. Thank you so much for watching and commenting, I really enjoyed reading it!! 🥰
@@meredithnovaco thanks for giving a comfy space to discuss. I was also big into the hunger games when I was a kid and I really didn’t get to talk to people about it. Keep up the good work!
I think Prim had to be kept at arm's length because the idea of "childhood innocence" doesn't reflect the actual experiences of kids, Primrose included. Children are real, whole people. They are still developing and learning how everything works, but they are organisms built to function in their environment. Kids are smart. They're perceptive. They're capable -- once a kid can walk, they are a full acting being changing the world. And they may not know anything yet, but boy howdy are they working to rectify that. Our idea of childhood innocence is basically the romanticization of ignorance in a context where it can be justified. It's adults wishing they could go back to the time before they knew certain hard truths, with a vague knowledge that there *are* hard things out there, but they have an excuse not to learn them. Real kids aren't like that! Prim wasn't like that! Kids are out to learn *everything* and be part of the world, as soon as they can! Children are so ready to replace innocence with knowledge, it's downright hubristic. In the books, we see Prim blatantly contradict Katniss's dollish conception of her by going into medicine and fighting however she can. She's a martyr and a revolutionary, not a mere victim. The idea of childhood innocence, protecting that in her sister, was important to Katniss' worldview, and so she could never actually get to know Primrose, as she was. Because Prim is a whole person (as much as a fictional character can be lol), not some pure cherubic baby. She never was.
Incredibly well said.
i think hatniss votes yes because of the thing you said in the video a few minutes earlier. coin doesn’t trust anyone who isn’t on her side. if you aren’t for coin, you’re against her. at this point, i think katniss already knows she wants to kill coin and just needs to get close enough to do it. if katniss voted no, coin might have had her guard up or might not have let katniss kill snow
Yeah you guys are convincing me!! I think you might be right, I think Coin wouldn’t have let Katniss do the execution if she didn’t trust her
But she hasn't spoken to Snow yet, has she? So she doesn't yet know for sure that he didn't send the bombs.
@@scattyukat that point in the story she had already spoken to snow so she knew that coin was responsible for the bombs when she voted yes
Also random thing Snow and Katniss had an unspoken promise that they wouldn’t lie to each other so that’s part of the reason why she believed Snow
i love looking at haymich as a mirror for katniss, i think youre spot on :) they both manipulated the games for self preservation and uninentionally pissed off snow.
i love this entire concept actually and i think youre being huge brain rn. the characters showing up in the story to symbolize whats already happening within katniss is 😗👌
I congratulate the district 12 winners for cheating the system.
The scene in Mockingjay part 2 where everyone is in Tigris's basement, Katniss is pretending to be asleep but she overhears the conversation between Gale and Peeta in which they say 'she will pick the one she needs most' (or something along those lines), i'm not too sure if this happens in the book, Its been a while since i read them. But, i think it shows how in the end she needed to abandon her anger (Gale) completely and fully accept her conscience (Peeta) to survive. Hence why we see Peeta return to district 12 at the end to join her. It was her conscience coming back. Which is what she needed most.
Yes, it happens in the book too and Katnis is actually quite offended at what they conclude and how they see her even tho she admits theyre right. I believe the phrasing Gale uses is that shell choose the one she cant live without
@@Ami-zi6si the wording is that she'll pick whoever she can't survive without, and she's offended because it sounds so cold and calculating.
Whenever I read/watch anything now I try and remember who is narrating the story. I agree that Prim likely represents innocence and childhood and that it is difficult to portray a character this way and have lots of interactions with them. However, with Katniss telling the story in past tense I feel that it makes sense for the details of Prim to be far and few between. In the first book there is a lot of emphasis on physical details of prim and by the third book a quite few of her personality quirks are noted (like her obsession with the scraggly stray cat lol). All of these traits feel like what you would remember of a loved one that passed years ago. I also think that Prim representing innocence made it so she had to die in the series. Not only to keep her character's integrity but for the perfect metaphor for the casualties of war. I really think that this series will be required reading in schools within the near future. Truly a wonderful series and I love the community it has fostered.
I mean Katniss says yes to Coin and literally kills her afterwards, which is non-verbal to saying no
I think another example of this is the first movie. Peeta was scared to kill someone while Gale told Katniss that she hunts animals and it’s the same as hunting people.
I think Katniss says in the end of Mockingjay that she understands her mom can't return to District 12 because, if she does, she'll just end up going catatonic again & fall back into serious depression and it wouldn't help either way, so it's better for her mom to go to district 8(or 2? idk) and continue to focus on helping/healing people.
Katniss also forgives her mom after losing Peeta & realizing she's reacting the same way her mom did after their dad's death: to shut down, and be unresponsive even when she's needed.
With the letting Katniss go after killing Coin I always felt like Plutarch did something in the background to let her go. He didn’t like Snow he was a rebel and by that idea he probably didn’t want Coin either since they’re the same. Idk I feel like the schemer in the background did something
Yeah this makes sense!! Someone else pointed out that other dist 13 people also didn’t trust Coin and warned Katniss so there might’ve been multiple people trying to pull strings!!
yeah, in the movie Haymitch says that he and Plutarch managed to leave her out of all that situation and go back to 12, what right now is in a way a prision, there is no living soul in there, she is not locked in a small room, but basically left in a destroyed city, so I think that with that they managed to give her freedom without letting her "free" in the districts and capitol, where some people could want to kill her or make her be confined in a room for killing Coin
It’s stated in the book as well. They at first got her off as an insanity plea, but then slowly released info on coin. They couldn’t quickly release info on coin is bad, cause that would make it look false. So they waited a bit to slowly “discover” her crookedness.
I think there's also the fact that Katniss was such a huge symbol for the rebellion and was seen as this heroic figure of justice, maybe even more important to the idea of the revolution than Coin herself. Executing Katniss could cause a lot of controversy that wasn't conducive to establishing a new regime.
For those like Plutarch who were in the know about Coin's dark side also knew that Katniss's actions would probably eventually be exonerated if the public ever discovered Coin's intentions to revive the games.
@@hurricaneofcats In the book, it talks about how Dr. Aurelius earned his naps by presenting Katniss as a hopeless, shell-shocked lunatic. So it was pretty much entirely via insanity plea
I also always thought that the love triangle isn't pointless because it shows that respecting your partner's choices IS actually love. Peeta professed his love for Katniss and understood and backed off in Catching Fire when she rightfully says "hey I'd love to but I've got a lot going on right now". When Gale says he loves Katniss, and she says "I've got a lot going on right now" he continues to pressure her to be with him. Peeta loves Katniss for who he is, Gale loves Katniss for the idea he has of her in his head. Ultimately, she chooses the partner who respects her choices. (and who didn't kill her sister but you know)
Something I think Suzanne Collins did unintentionally is that Gale reminds me of young Snow from Songbirds and Snakes. Obviously I don't think Gale is as bad as Snow or Coin, but he does carry traits of Snow when he was younger. Snow was possessive of Lucy Gray and definitely believed that the means justify the ends. We never got Gale's inner monologue, but what we did see was him bringing their relationship to the forefront of the conversation whenever she discussed their lives being in danger. We did see him always being jealous of Peeta to the point when he admitted he thought of something "selfish" when he saw hijacked Peeta. And then he suggested the idea of planting bombs where civilians would be, which he should know children would be there as well with their parents. Snow had this unreasonable jealousy toward Billy Taupe when Lucy Gray was still hurt over what Billy did, thinking she should just get over it quicker. He defended the Capitol's system when they were obviously hurting people, especially children. I would even argue that Coin was Gale's Dr. Gaul because both women took both men under their wings and then influenced them to behave like them.
This is amazing observation. I really see it, Gale and Snow are very similar - both of them were first trying to survive and when the occasion presented itself, they went and took the power available fór them into their own hands - and I believe both of them did it with intention of turning society to a better state - however, both of them failed to do that. The problem was in their perception od people, neither one of them saw the people, they only saw them as numbers and a means to an end.
This video is as good as videos with thousands of views and likes! Really enjoyed your analysis, and it legit gave me understanding of the “love triangle”! 😁
Thank you!! I appreciate it 🥰 hopefully I’ll get there soon!!
My understanding of why she said yes was to gain president Coin’s trust. She wanted to prove to Coin that she was finally broken and would follow her orders willingly so that she would trust her out in the open with a weapon otherwise she might’ve protected herself from Katniss in someway.
26:07 about that last bit of analysis, Katniss is locked up in her old room at the training center for weeks, with a trial going on in the background to know what sentence is for her, along with peacekeepers, other victors, etc. You can’t punish somebody who has ptsd from years of being used by both sides, sent twice in a hunger games, being followed by a therapist who can’t seem to help her talk, someone who literally contemplated suicide. Sending her back to 12 is showing justice working (in my opinion). Also, during those weeks of isolation, she is so depressive to the point she contemplates suicide. But the interesting part that we could analysis here is that she never succeed, she wants to die but can’t commit like something is keeping her from actually really wanting to die. Then she is sent to Dictrict 12, where she still contemplates suicide until Peeta plants Primrose by her house, so following your really interesting analysis, honoring innocence and childhood as a way to bring her back to wanting life again
Gale and Beetee (i forgot how to spell his name forgive me) developed those bombs that were used the on the kids. Katniss was there during the development and was put off by them and when they were used she recognized they were the bombs from district 13
Good video! I enjoyed listening. Some corrections though I noticed- Peeta didn’t actually appear in the field until Coin sent him to the Capitol to join Katniss after she snuck away from 13. He wasn’t actually in District 2 during the mountain takeover. Gale and Katniss even have a romantic moment there that gets cut short because he realizes she’ll “never love him as much as Peeta”. Also Pollux survives with Gale, Katniss, and Peeta (thank god 😭)
Thanks for catching this I’m glad I wasn’t the only one! She also doesn’t get shot in the head she gets shot in the abdomen and ends up breaking some ribs
100% Katniss (and maybe even Haymitch) agreed to the final games in order to get the drop on Coin. I seem to remember there's even a line in that meeting where they look at each other and some unspoken understanding passes between them. I like how you laid out clearly how Peeta pops up whenever Katniss' conscience comes knocking, that's a good catch. My only disagreement is that I don't find it necessary to categorise characters as either ideologies OR 'people' for a novel like this. Peeta has his bread sharing moment, his heartbreaking real-or-not-real checks, Gale has his angst - Collins put work into giving them at least a little life beyond their ideology so I don't see why they can't be people too.
She knew the second bomb would go off because she heard the plan for the exact same type of attack from Gale. He was describing it for a different location. She recognized it in reverse where it was their own medics bombed instead of enemy ones.
What I always found funny about Coin’s name is how big of a tip it is about her intentions from the very start. In this huge layered metaphor, Alma represents the other side of the “coin” of Coriolanus. They are, at the core, the same, just with a different face. I didn’t notice it on my first read-through, but when I realized what she was and reread it, it felt like a glowing neon sign.
Also, I think Suzanne Collins did a good job at foreshadowing Snow’s illness and death. In the movies, you see the blood in his wine and his tissues, but in the books Katniss talks about how he leans close and she can smell the blood on his breath. It’s such a creepy description and it stuck with me!
If you look at all the names of characters they sum up their character or tie into thier character
24:40 - I think Katniss agreeing to the have one last Games was her playing Coin. (In the movies at least) Coin very clearly wanted Capital Hunger Games to happen but left the “final decision” up to the surviving tributes as a metaphor for them “getting their justice” or whatever while still keeping her own hands clean, likely assuming that most of the tributes would want some revenge. Katniss agreed to support the games but immediately followed up with the condition that she wanted to be the one to kill Snow. This would put her in a prime spot to kill Coin. Coin immediately agreed because not only is she getting her Hunger Games, but by having Katniss kill Snow (Katniss being Coin’s biggest political threat), Katniss is basically showing the rest of Panem that she is just a brutal killer, and animal almost, while again Coin portrays herself as “clean” and blameless. Katniss also looks to Haymich during and says “For Prim” to get him to side with her decision, and at this point she knows that Coin is most likely the one who ordered the bombs dropped on the civilians and put Prim in the spot to be killed by the second strike, so everything from that point on and every decision she made was to help her kill Coin.
20:51 Katniss puts it together because it’s Gales trap. The same thing that he wanted to do with the mountain. Sending bombs then drawing more people into the trap and bombing again. She knows it’s gales bomb
(This is the part in mocking Jay when she asks him)
We stand there, face-to-face, not meeting each other's eyes.
"You didn't come see me in the hospital." He doesn't answer, so finally I just say it. "Was it your bomb?"
"I don't know. Neither does Beetee," he says. "Does it matter? You'll always be thinking about it."
He waits for me to deny it; I want to deny it, but it's true.
Even now I can see the flash that ignites her, feel the heat of the flames. And I will never be able to separate that moment from Gale. My silence is my answer.
She figured out what is about to happen to Prim because of something Gale says in an earlier scene to her and Beady about using Snows playbook of doing a small bomb to get people to react and help then a bigger bomb to kill everyone.
SUCH A BANGER VID, QUEEN!!!! seriously, your analysis is AMAZING i could listen to you talk ALL DAY!
THANK YOUUUU I learned from the best 😏🥰 Can’t wait to collab again!!
25:58 i mean to be fair, if you hand a crazy person a weapon and tell her to point it at the president its kinda on you for creating that circumstance. in the books coin was like directly behind snow so she could have even missed and hit coin on accident, and she was officially deemed being not in a stable state of mind so thats the story theyre going with in the books
literally the best fucking analysis I've ever seen of the hunger games. I was always confused by the love triangle cus I was like 'susane is too damn smart and calculating to let this be meaningless" and you hit it on the fucking head. I knew they were supposed to be opposing view points but the concept that they are extremes personified is fucking brilliant. also you mention not knowing how katniss knew what would happen to prim- which is actually my favorite detail in Mockingjay. gale invented the bomb that killed prim. which is mostly why katniss blames him. the trap is based off of hunting techniques that kill/lure out babies to lure in adult animals. he developed these hunting traps into war techniques for the rebellion. it is quite literally the end point of his entire character, when he breaks down fully into an ideology instead of a person. quite possbly my favorite storyline. i think it represents how what began as a survival method (hunting) becomes a form of vengeance (bombs) and how gale has always represented pushing the line of where ultimate survival merges into retribution and how you define survival in a rebellion
Fascinating analysis, I wasn't able to connect the dots the way you did but to me Haymitch is the trauma (one of the most important plotpoints of the book) personifed. Whenever Katniss seems to slip all the way into despair - Haymitch shows up. Not to pat her on the back and say that everything's going to be ok (even if he does that) but because he's the endpoint/bottom of slipping into despair. Katniss falls down closer to the bottom and thus - closer to Haymitch who's there pretty much all the time.
I think it's why during the negotiations he says that he'll do what the Mockingjay decides - he's been at the bottom too long to decide what the future should be. His life won't really get that much better since he lost everything anyway - but the new world may still change a lot for Katniss and other people. They should decide what's best.
Anyway - I once again wanted to applaud your analysis - it's brilliant.
I don’t know if anyone explained but Katniss, Beetee and Gale were talking about weapons halfway through the book and Gale describes almost the exact bomb that is used on Prim. A first goes off, then a second after medics can rush in. So she recognizes it when it’s used.
My take: Prim is not representing innocence but what Katniss is “fighting” for- Prim is motivation incarnate. In the first book Prim/ the motivation is to protect those she loves (Prim, Rue, Peeta.) In catching fire we learn that Prim is good at helping people- Katniss learns she must help the district 12 tributes and is not sure how she’ll be a good helper. Then when she enters the games her goal is to help Peeta win. In the last book Prim becomes rebel and Katniss eventually does as well. Prim is being prepped to be a doctor (the lead of a medical team.) Katniss is being prepped to be a leader- if a figure head (which honestly a lot of docs are as well, lol.) In the end when she votes yes, “For Prim.” it is a yes for her motivation. And at that point Katniss’s motivation is to end the war. She votes yes so she can kill Coin and end the Hunger Games once and for all.
the reason Katniss says yes to the hunger games is so that Coin would let her kill snow, because up to this point it was not set in stone that she would. She says yes because she knows this is what Coin wants to hear and in Coins mind she thinks that Katniss is finally on her side. However in that moment Katniss realizes that snow is no longer a threat, if she doesn't kill him someone else will. Instead, Coin asking for a symbolic hunger games is sort of the last straw for her and makes Katniss realize that Coin is no different than Snow and has become the threat to the freedom of Panem. So in this moment Katniss realizes what she has to do and in saying yes she never actually wants the symbolic hunger games to take place, she is just using it as a tool to get close enough to Coin to take her out.
I recently reread the series as an adult too and I definitely was able to appreciate it in a different way than when I was a kid. I was not very empathetic as a kid and didn’t understand why Gale was not the right choice in the end. As an adult who has had more life experiences I definitely see why Peeta was always the choice she was going to make and I appreciated his character more. Mockingjay used to be my least favorite in the trilogy but after reading it again I actually think I enjoyed it the most in some ways.
I feel the same way!! I didn’t even remember a lot of mockingjay because I didn’t care much about it but I love it now, there’s so many intricacies and deeper meanings to be found!!
I feel like Gale and Peeta’s ark show the fault in their principals. Gales story ends with him going to far and losing his ‘soul’ and destroying innocence, in the name of ‘it’s war’. While Peeta shows that if you don’t find a line to stand up for what is ‘right’ and fight back against evil, then you will be used to damage what’s ‘right’
Gale let the life in the district and war to change him and for him the ends justify the means (remember how he told Katniss that there IS no difference between killing an animal and killing a human) and Peeta "showed them they dont own him" in every sense of that sentence - even though Peeta suffered in the games and the war way more than Gale
I think Peeta really represents hope. He represents a better future, an optimistic outlook. Her dandelion in the spring who could see her insecurity and crime and still accept her. And that really melds well with her inability to be anything more than pragmatic. Whereas Gale still has desires but he’s pessimistic, always seeing the worst in people. And I think Katniss needed to see both those sides to be grounded
This is a great analysis. I read the books when I was the intended audience and then reread them this year as a 27 year old too. I think it’s of great value to reread them as an adult, because you can understand the nuances so much more!
THIS IS SO COOL. You made tons of good points that I've never thought of before. Especially the point of Katniss hating herself because Peeta was her concious and Gale was her hatred/fire.
I think reading this as a teenager changed the direction of my life
I feel like Haymitch was just a reflection of how you can be a winner in the games, but in the end you don’t win shit. 🥺
I HATED that Finnick died. I was so mad. He deserved his happy ending with his true love. Ugh. Idc idc. 💖
I feel like the Tigress hated Coreo because he was selling tributes to the capital for “secs” and she had to sell herself to help them survive when they were younger so I think she was disgusted that he would do that to those kids. In Mockingjay they make it seem like Tigress was over Snow because she got so many enhancements but nah. I don’t buy it.
Katniss knew about the secondary bombs because Gale (I believe) mentioned that this would be a great plan to get capital citizens to turn on Snow.
Love the content 💖 my bad for this long ass comment 😂
Please please please make more hunger games vids like this, this is incredible I could binge for HOURS!❤❤❤
Thank you!! I have a few other hunger games ones already if you haven’t checked those out!! ❤️
@@meredithnovaco Those vids are the plan for tonight!
I'm not sure if there's any great metaphorical meaning behind Katniss voting "Yes" to another Hunger Games. I think it was literally just a choice she made so that she could have an opportunity to kill Coin. The deal was, if she voted "Yes," then she would get to kill Snow, which would give her the opportunity she needed to kill Coin instead (Snow was dying anyway, plus the people would never have let him live. Pretty sure the mob killed him, btw, not his illness). She knew Coin wouldn't be able to resist being there, and it would let Katniss be in her presence with a weapon.
The intention was never for there to _actually_ be another Hunger Games. Coin's death would end that.
BTW, I don't think Haymitch knew _exactly_ what she was thinking, but he trusted that she had her reasons. That's why he said, "I'm with the Mockingjay," rather than actually voting Yes or No.
this was SUCHHH a good video wow. absolutely ate it up. i think you were absolutely correct in basically everything you said and i really appreciate hunger games analyses in the year 2024
thank youuu!
Love your point about Katniss being the only changing character. A lot of stories are thought experiments, functioning as much as possible like literal science experiments. THG may be one of the purest distillations of that. And what is one of the core principles of experiment design? You keep every factor the same across iterations, except one. Katniss is our independent variable. Not sure of what, though; I'm still chewing on this. I'll have to come back later as my thoughts develop :)
So you are saying Peeta doesn't change? He goes from madly in love to tortured and hyjacked to despising Katniss to relearning what is real and not to choosing to be with her.
Also Prim goes from a scared and innocent child to a wise-for-her-age fearless healer.
Even the cat changes after loosing Prim.
I majored in English Lit and one of my college professors once told us that characters are never people, but rather symbols. That helped me a lot in my analysis of literature. That is not to say, of course, that they can't be realistic or have character growth, but rather that they can't be analyzed through psychology or any other medium we would use to understand a real person, but that they must be studied for what they represent. They can represent multiple complex ideas, of course.
I think Prim represents the people we are fighting for in a war. In other words, who we are going to war for, whether is a brother, a lover or a friend. The people who soldiers are thinking about back home when they are fighting at war.
Around the 20 min mark you asked how Katniss just - knew this was coming. Gale told everyone that plan. In an act of unethical ‘do whatever it takes’, Gale offers up a really hideous idea and Katniss even says, ‘woah dude that got way too dark’. It doesn’t really make Sense for the capitol to bomb its own children. But Gale’s plan to lure them in, hurt them, and then let them all come to help the hurt ( only to kill anyone there ) was one that immediately struck a chord because of How the kids were lured in by the ‘help’ from the Games packages. And that’s what kills her innocence completely.
I also think why Katniss believed Snow about Coin killing the children was because as you stating in the beginning, Snow never shyed away from being the bad guy, he knew he was bad and evil and never lied about it (only tried justifying it). Coin on the other hand was sneaky, manipulative and thus sowed distrust in katniss from the start, the nail on the head being she tried to justify in the end, how placing the capital kids in the hunger games would be beneficial to the rebels justice (while also not taking fault for the bombs). Katniss then knew right away that Snow was right. Coin still followed some ideologies of Snow and that was dangerous, but she would be a modified, sneaky, manipulative version of his ideals. The Hunger games never ended with Snow, but they would end with Coin, she would make sure of that.
Yes!! Suzanne Collins actually wrote about this in the ten year anniversary edition in the interview section I believe!
I think Katniss agreeing to the hunger games is to momentarily quell the bloodlust of coin. by saying yes, Katniss not only earns Coins satisfaction and momentary trust, but she also gets to view coin in her most powerful and oppressive state. After this agreement to Coin's proposal, Coin is much more willing to let Katniss kill snow but is also more comfortable making a spectacle of it (even feeling safe enough to stand right behind Katniss' target) it's this agreement that allows Coin to bask in her glory of success and become a dictator just as snow was (two sides of the same 'Coin') and eases the guilt/hesitancy Katniss has for doubting and eventually killing Coin (it also makes it easier for her to see that Coin is the bigger threat than Snow at this point)
Maybe kaitniss Mom represented grief and her not going back with Katniss was showing how katniss was no longer holding the grief of her past with her
Katniss knew about the second wave of bombs because it’s what Gale told her about earlier in the book.
Drop a few bombs to go off to bring in the medics and then set off the second wave.
It’s the moment that ends any chance of her getting with Gale over Peeta.
I always thought that Katniss only agreed to the "Symbolic, Last" Hunger games in order to guarantee herself a chance to kill Coin. If killing Prim was to ensure Katniss's loyalty (similarly to Snow killing Haymitch's loved ones a quarter of a century earlier), Katniss needed to show her willingness to go along with whatever Coin suggested, including publicly disagreeing with Peeta, to prove to Coin that Katniss was "with Coin". Failure to agree with Coin may not have stopped the Games, but may well have removed any chance Katniss would have had of taking out Coin, "for Prim".
Very smart evaluation! I quite liked it! 👏👏👏
Concerning Katniss' mom. I used to really dislike her as well, until I met someone with a similar story. This person was not really close to their mother. They were much closer to their father. Their siblings and father died earlier than expected, and they two were the last members of their family alive. They were just okay with each other, not a lot of love either way. After the heartache and loss the mother experienced, she just became distant (and probably depressed), and they simply continued to exist in the way they each chose to go. I used to think Katniss' mom was awful for not taking care of her kids, but after experiencing depression I can see why she might just fade away.
Prim represents more than just innocence/the next generation. While we don’t learn MUCH about Prim, we learn that she’s compassionate (taking in the stray cat) and a natural healer. From this I see two interpretations. The first is that she represents healing and peace. She dies by Gale’s invention, by Gale’s perspective that the ends justify the means. This perspective literally kills the possibility for peace and healing because it simple perpetuates war and violence. If neither side has any limits, there’s nothing to stop an escalation from happening nor is there any incentive to stop the fighting. This is also supported by the fact that Coin - who also justifies violence if it means getting what she wants- was the one who approved her to go to the front lines. It cements the fact that holding this perspective- rebuilding a country with this perspective- would make peace and healing impossible. It would simply bring them back to square one, this time under a new tyrant and a new group to torture.
The second interpretation is that Prim is the ability to value the humanity and lives of others . She always saw the humanity of others and tried to help them- to heal them. You could even argue that by healing and saving people that she was literally giving their humanity back to them. She saw them and got to know them as people, not statistics or canon fotter. Coin and to a lesser extent Gale see humanity as a collective- the “good guys” and “bad guys.” The bad guys need to be stopped at any cost- the humanity of neither side matters. The REBEL medics were disposable- no longer people to be saved but pawns to be used. The value of human life is killed when they are viewed as means to an end.
I'm not always great at analyzing text so I'm so grateful when people break it down like this -- your take on Peeta's brainwashing is EXCELLENT, it adds so much. I never would have thought about it quite like that on my own lol. Just the way you broke down just what Peeta and Gale represent and how it impacts each event in the book is great. Mockingjay has always been my favorite of the trilogy, which I've always felt has been kind of a hot take because when we were all kids and read it for the first time SO many people hated it because of what happened to Finnick and Prim. But the fact that you're able to analyze the book like this shows how intentional everything was, and just because it was upsetting to read about their deaths doesn't make it bad or pointless. And I agree, it's so gratifying to be able to read these books again as an adult and being able to pick up on things that went over our heads as kids.
imho the reason why she said yes to "one last" hunger games was because, yes, she did decide to kill coin in that moment. she realized that coin had no intention of these hunger games being the last ones and that she had no intention of stepping down as an "interim" president. however, if she said no she would be firmly in the enemy camp for coin and would definitely not be trusted with killing snow and therefore would have the opportunity to kill coin.
I LOVE the video "Why Did Katniss Agree to a Symbolic Hunger Games" by The Geek Apprentice because it does a really good job explaining not only Katniss's decisions to both vote yes and kill Coin, but it also explores the relationship between Katniss and Haymitch in a way I appreciate
Katniss knows what is going to happen before the second bombs go off because previously in the book Gale had described a trap like it, injuring some so that more come to help, then releasing a second wave. Then there was discussion about how to make that trap on a bigger scale.
In that moment she recognizes what is about to happen, that they succeeded on making Gale's trap on a large scale.
I always thought her agreeing to the last games was her showing Coin she was going to fall in line so Coin will let her assassinate Snow, because she knew that was the only way Coin would let Katniss near her with a weapon.
Katniss voted for the capitol children hunger games to lull Coin into a false sense of security so Coin would believe she had successfully corrupted Katniss. Sure, there probably is deeper meaning as well but that is the primary reason.
She agreed to the games to convince coin to trust her enough to kill snow and also be present in his execution without protection seeing as she would feel no threat from Katniss now believing she was on her side after voting in favor of her capitol hunger games, the suggestion of which is what tuned Katniss in to the knowledge that what Snow had told her was indeed correct and it was Coin who bombed the children after all as she’s now shown to be more than happy putting them in a hunger games of their own. Along with an attempt to turn everyone against Snow for killing so many innocent children, Coin specifically had those bombs ordered to drop to target Prim, while at the same time sending her directly to the front lines to meet them, as punishment for Katniss not being on her side if Prim was dead Katniss not only loses her fight, she would harbor even more vitriol and resentment against the capitol which in Coin’s mind would result in Katniss fully succumbing to her. Katniss then flawlessly pretended to do that exact thing.
You should read the essay “Death of The Author.” It provides a framework fir analysis outside of Authorial intent
I just want to say that I really really appreciate this video. I have my own feelings about what specific characters represent and things. But I really appreciate your analysis and the amount of thought you've clearly put in to making this video. this is the strange thing to be thanking somebody for but thank you for earnestly engaging with a piece of media.
I don't think it's any coincidence that Gale is so much like Katniss, from his interests, strength, rebelliousness, and even physically he looks so much like her, it's easy to assume they are related. But Peeta reflects Prim far more - he is kind, gentle, and has her sort of blonde hair and blue eyes. For the first two novels I shipped Katniss and Gale, to me, they just made more sense. By the end of the third novel I finally understood Katniss and Peeta. Katniss and Gale are so much alike, they find comfort in each other but don't really bring out the best in each other. Peeta's kindness is something that softens Katniss' hard, logical mind; she in turn is able to protect him and give him strength.
I followed you just because of this video. I am #teampeeta but boi am I tired of the Gale hate and people misunderstanding what Gale was to the series (if they still don't get it, he represents the rebels and the districts and their feelings of rage and injustice towards the capitol to give Katniss and the reader that perspective) So glad that people are starting to point this out. Could he have done better, of course, that's the point, but love triangle or not, his feelings are valid to the story.
Love love love this video! Amazing explanation - I've always loved Peeta and Katniss and youve explained the great meaning and symbolism with their relationship and what Katniss represents throughout the trilogy (things I wouldnt have thought about).
For the longest time, that scene where she says she wants another hunger games drove me crazy - because I took her seriously. I just reread the books, though, and now I think that was her (and Hamish) making sure that she would maintain that opportunity to kill Coin. Coin wanted her to be so distracted by her rage over Prim’s death that she would no longer pose a threat to her - she would just throw herself behind Coin. So voting that way would confirm to Coin that Katniss wasn’t a threat to her and relax her enough that she would stand there in front of an armed Katniss, convinced of her own safety and success. So yes, Katniss did vote that way *for Prim* - it was to guarantee her to keep that opportunity to stop the true killer of all those innocent children.
I think this is a good analysis. I think it would make the most sense, though, if we see Prim as representing Katniss's innocence specifically, rather than the concept of innocence generally.
Also, I think it's sort of a false choice between characters being characters and them representing something symbolically. They are just different layers of meaning.