@@meredithnovaco Ariana Grande IS also a villain in real life for dating married men but her fans let her get away with it because she looks innocent. How fitting. I love this video
The opening number, as a long-time fan of the musical, made me realize why Glinda didn’t go: she knows she couldn’t deal with being treated like an outcast, not by that many people. And as someone who has been treated like an outcast, that is difficult to stomach.
@@alexbennet4195yeah good thing the musical and movie are only written to be understood and related to by people who have green skin and have been hunted down by a Wizard in a land with talking animals.
I think another reason people don't see Galinda as the villain is becayse shes a reflection of most people in society. Out for themselves, believes they're good but doesn't put in the hard work. It should hopefully be a wake up call for all of us
It's not a wake-up call at all, unfortunately. It seems the major takeaway for most people is "everyone can be good and evil" which doesn't inspire them to self reflect at ALL.
oh my god you took the words out of my mouth?? i saw so many people on twitter defending her and being like 'oh who never did (insert questionable behavior)?' and thats when i understood so many people will never see galinda as the villain bc they see themselves in her, they see their excuses in her, they see their own motivations and selfishness in her and thats one hell of a tough pill to swallow
the term "villain" is a literary device. throwing glinda into the "villain box" is lazy analysis. we are all aware that most of her decisions are stupid and selfish. but, her character's role in the story does not function as a villain.
See I disagree. I feel this video shows how she works as a villain in the story through her dynamics but comes out the end a redeemed (or in active redemption) for her actions.
Ik this is a crazy thing to say, but in a way, Glinda is kind of like Coriolanus Snow 😭 she's exposed to all of these different people, and is given so many opportunities to do good and break out of the oppressive and toxic environments that make up her world...yet she never does so out of cowardace and self interest
Exactly I have never seen this play or read the book and I clocked that right away. The ones who let it happen out of fear and wanting to stay the corse because she is afraid of how it will look, are just as bad as the people pulling the strings.
I believe Glinda was trying to help from the inside. Also why are y'all acting like Elphaba in the show did anything special while blaming Glinda? Have y'all watched part 2 of the musical?
@@iammemys2213 glinda in act 2 is never shown to lift a FINGER to help the animals right up until the very end, and that's only after elphaba essentially forces glinda to promise 😭 during her time as an ozian elite, glinda let the wizard continue his tyranny over the animals and let madame morrible spread the twisted propaganda against elphaba, and even reprimands fiyero for deigning to show solidarity with elphaba. Never does Glinda try to dismantle the system from the inside. Glinda stays complacent in the mistreatment of elphaba and of the animals, and never goes through any true character growth until the very end, where she pledges to be a better leader of oz; but again, that happens at the END. the majority of the narrative sees glinda act as a self interested, virtue signaling coward and suck up. Glinda only sometimes "feels bad" about what's going on in oz, and never takes any true action, unlike elphaba, who fights the regime and actively supports the animals
That's one theme yes, but there are more that reinforce the whole idea which is that not only is good and evil not black and white, but the masses can buy into any framing through propaganda, symbolism, and abuse of power all to maintain the status quo.
yes but also there's this theme of looks can be decieving, people tend to associate beauty with goodness and ugliness with evil, when in reality your looks do not define your character or morals, in fact it is often the most good looking/charismatic people that do the most evil and Glinda in particular has a very wicked heart in the beggining and throughout the story, it's her relationship with Elphaba that pushes her to try to better, after the song For Good which at the very end, before all that she's the bad one, whereas Elphaba has a true loving, empathetic heart but she is treated like trash because of her looks
I'm sorry, but there is NOTHING good about taking away the freedom and the ability to speak from living and conscious beings. There is no "both sides" in bigotry, abuse, and oppression.
Galinda's manipulation of Boq during "Dancing Through Life" is a masterclass in her character. When he says he'll be waiting all night to dance with her, she doesn't dress him down like a "mean girl." She wants to be universally liked, even by the dorks and dweebs. The only person she openly insults is Elphaba because she's "a real good enemy" (in the Wizard's words) who wins her the entire school's sympathy. Instead, she pretends to validate Boq's "kindness" (knowing they're actually both selfish in pursuing who they want) and redirects his attention to the most "tragic" person in the room. She doesn't care that it's Nessa (and probably doesn't even register that she's Elphaba's sister) - she's just a convenient pawn to pair him off with in the moment. When Boq hesitates to ask Nessa, Galinda simply shrugs, *"Why not? She's right there."* And why wouldn't she say that? Anyone who assumes Galinda is good will interpret that with a "Seize the moment!" gusto, not as "Get out of my face, creep!" What's really fascinating is how Galinda maintains her facade by lying *as little as possible.* It's TRUE that it would be KINDER to ask out a less-popular girl who uses a wheelchair so she doesn't feel left out instead of chasing the school's resident Stereotypical Barbie. She knows that every boy with a crush on her will do **anything** for her. And Boq is a "hero" of sorts to Galinda - but only by leaving her alone for a girl in his "league" and letting her feel like a virtuous matchmaker who gives every "beautiful" girl a date. This is also one of the few times Galinda's dialogue doesn't center herself, as she carefully avoids stating any interest in Boq. She doesn't lie outright and say, "I'd love if you did that!" She reflects his obvious crush back at him asking, "You'd do that for me?" And the best part is she pats Boq's hanky back into his vest, clearly rejecting him, but with the air of wishing him luck. It's the same energy as, "I feel like **strangers** are just people I haven't met yet." She's dropping a banal, vapid statement that's impossible to disagree with and giving it a wistful emphasis that makes it sound like life-changing wisdom. Fantastic how Ariana passive-aggressively lingered on "strangers" in her delivery. Galinda made it clear she has no interest in getting to know Boq better while giving him hope he might eventually.
Yes! Just started reading the book and there’s no many more examples of her doing this there. Her manipulation of boc goes so much deeper there. She always rejects him but not outright and compliments him saying he is sortve “cute” and endearing to string him along so he still likes her. Book Glinda made musical Glinda look like a saint.
Exactly, like this is why certain serial killers didn’t get caught for a long time… because they were charming (like YES they’re charming, that’s how they manipulate people!!)
Glinda is a villain just like Ariana herself :D she is basically playing herself , lol :D no "good" person is going to steal someones husband while they were literally just having a baby...and overall if you look Arianas past...I cant say anything nice about her ...oh 1 thing, she is pretty thats it
The mirroring lyrics in Defying Gravity “I hope you're happy how you've hurt your cause forever I hope you think you're clever” and “I hope you're happy, too I hope you're proud how you would grovel in submission To feed your own ambition” Glinda is harping on Elphaba choosing what’s right over choosing to do what would better her image in the public eye. While Elphaba is prodding at her ability to know what is right and choose to ignore it in order to help herself. A verse later they go back and forth “You can still be with the wizard, What you've worked and waited for, You can have all you ever wanted (I know) But I don't want it, No, I can't want it anymore” It’s literally Glinda saying you can’t give up your dream to do this, while Elphaba is saying she can’t take something for herself at the expense of others; needless to say this is all we have seen Glinda do up until this point.
What if Glinda thought the “cause” in that line was the animal rights? What if Glinda thinks if elphaba apologizes and works things out with the Wizard, that she will get animal rights? But of course Elphaba knows it doesn’t work that way. Kinda changes things.
@@LCTmusic683 Elphaba could gain the Wizard's trust and pull an Operation Valkyrie later. She repeatedly chose her own moral purity over doing things that actually help people.
@@karilynn9711 No way. At this point in time, the Wizard knew Elphaba could read the Grimmerie with ease, so do you seriously think he wouldn’t force her to perform more spells that would tighten his grip over Oz and further enslave the animals, if she were to join him? In order to feign loyalty to the Wizard, she’d have to actively go against her cause for who knows how long and do more damage, with no guarantee a successful coup could even come out of it since everyone was loyal to the wizard to a fault. She made the right choice becoming an oppositional force, and we shouldn’t place blame on radical minorities for becoming radicalized by the systems they’re subjected to rather than trying to infiltrate those systems from within, since that’s not always a reasonable expectation.
@@karilynn9711The wizard doesn’t have any actual power he only has public approval. The only way Elphaba could still help the animals while working with the wizard is if he allowed her to use his position to free the animals despite already using all his other resources to do the exact opposite. He likely wouldn’t have done that so her only real choice is to do it on her own. Glinda could still change public opinion with her social power but she would have to be willing to go against the wizard to do it which …
My sister and I were just talking about this!!! We discussed how in the wizard of oz Glinda gives the red shoes to Dorothy and eggs her on not to give them back to the wicked witch. The wicked witch is looking for her dead sister’s shoes, she’s in mourning and Glindas like “these shoes? On the murders feet?” 😂
You wrote “Glinda gives the red shoes to Dorothy and eggs her on not to give them back to the wicked witch” I think the person hasn’t heard of the phrase “eggs on” and thought you meant Glinda asks Dorothy not to return the shoes.
Glinda in literally the first song of the musical: “I have done terrible things, literally super evil things, and because of that I have lost everyone I love and I completely deserve it.” Everyone: “She can’t possibly be bad, really. I mean.. come on. She’s nice sometimes 🥰”
I've seen people get defensive about this one 😂 "How does that song mean she's guilty? 😤" It's the first song in the show, before the unfolding of events that shed light on the meaning of the lyrics, so fair that you'd not immediately see glinda's singing about her own guilt. But all it takes is to listen to the lyrics again (which you'd think people must be doing whilst literally revisiting the song on TH-cam, right?) to understand the tone of the first scene better. "Goodness knows the Wicked's lives are lonely. Goodness knows the wicked die alone. It just shows, when you're wicked you're left only on your own." Hmm, I wonder, who could she be talking about? Who is alone after making a lot of destructive choices? Lot's of hard-core "wicked fans" just absolutely not getting it. Makes me wonder what about the show they like so much. I've also seen "wicked fans" struggling to draw parallels between the wizard of oz and the government. The whole theme of government corruption somehow goes straight over their heads?? But I won't harp on.
The whole point of the story is there are no "wicked" people. Her and Elphaba are foils, Glinda is a poltician who puts efficency over morality. Elphaba is a radical who puts personal convictions over her cause. Glinda betrays her friend to stay with the wizard and advance her own political career at the expense of the animals yeah its not the moral thing to do but what if Glinda hadn't stayed? she could barely fight off 1 palace guard you expect her to be a fugitive? She doesn't have op magic like elphie to defend herself. what about her family, they don't have political positions to protect them like Elphaba's family. She could help maybe a few dozen animals escape before getting herself and Elphie captured and crucified to death like Fiyero was for helping the enemy. And then the wizard would still be in power and nothing would have changed. But by staying shes able to do what she does best, politics. She uses the wizards own propoganda against him by building a public image replacing him as the figurehead of Oz, and then when she overthrows him shes able to make actual governmental changes to actually help the animals.
@@oflynn_flowerchild1412 Quickly, who put in the work to even make it possible for Glinda to overthrow Oz in the first place... starts with the letter E ends with A 😂
@@SapphireSkiesYTI would argue that it was both of them equally. Elphaba empowers and inspires her, but she herself tells Glinda in Act 2, “I’m limited. Just look at me. I’m limited. And look at you, you can do all I couldn’t do, Glinda.” Intentional or not, Glinda ends up being in a position to overthrow the system from the inside because of her choices to acquiesce, which Elphaba would never have been able to do because of her choice to radicalize.
There are so many parallels to race in America and how the majority gets the benefit of the doubt while the minority isn’t so lucky. It’s glaring actually. I know talking about race makes some uncomfortable but as a black woman I see Glinda clearly. An ally to Elphaba and the Animals until it didn’t benefit her anymore. If you’re not helping YOU’RE IN THE WAY!
She is the epitome of “allyship” without doing the real work of what it is like to be an ally. She was only willing to be a genuine friend of Elphaba only if it benefited her directly, and that’s the most evil part of all. The complacency in allowing your “friend’s” character, reputation, and image to be demonized to the extreme peak that causes her death. Then in turn to CELEBRATE her death knowing the purity of her heart all so you can remain in good optics for your own validation.
Glenda is what we call a fake friend aka user....Glenda will use and abuse ppl with her charismatic behavior and her looks if you are more popular or have something she doesn't oh baby she will do her best to get close to you and take it from you or use you to get farther than you then your nothing to her. Pure evil she only stands for herself n play like she stands with you but when she gets what she wants baby she's out lol. Shes the energy drainer toxic soul
yes because risking her entire image by associating herself with the school joke in front of everybody while elphaba is publically laughed at is to her own direct benefit.
Absolutely. It is depressingly hilarious that they cannot see their own disparate response to the characters is exactly what the musical is criticising. But part of their downplaying in Glinda's active (wicked) choices is because it implicates us all. Few are Madame Morrible or the Wizard, but many of us are Glindas, Boqs, and Nessaroses.
@@balanceis_keyGlinda is not on the same level as Nessarose. Nessarose is othered because of her disability by Glinda as well and too few able bodied people can't see that.
@@dirtygrubbygoblingirlis she a lesser villain? She represents the disadvantaged minority who doesn’t stand in solidarity with other disadvantaged minorities. She uses what privilege she does have to set herself apart from her own sister. Glinda retreats into the comfort of her immense privilege, but she doesn’t know any different. Nessarose does, and not once does she stand up for her sister. Now more nuance can be applied to real people. Like obviously the million/billionaire who hoards their wealth is worse than the racist white gay, but in Oz, Nessarose turns her back on the only person who has never infantilized her or taken away her agency in order to be Glinda’s charity case.
The whole point of the story is there are no "wicked" people. Her and Elphaba are foils, Glinda is a poltician who puts efficency over morality. Elphaba is a radical who puts personal convictions over her cause. Glinda betrays her friend to stay with the wizard and advance her own political career at the expense of the animals yeah its not the moral thing to do but what if Glinda hadn't stayed? she could barely fight off 1 palace guard you expect her to be a fugitive? She doesn't have op magic like elphie to defend herself. what about her family, they don't have political positions to protect them like Elphaba's family. She could help maybe a few dozen animals escape before getting herself and Elphie captured and crucified to death like Fiyero was for helping the enemy. And then the wizard would still be in power and nothing would have changed. But by staying shes able to do what she does best, politics. She uses the wizards own propoganda against him by building a public image replacing him as the figurehead of Oz, and then when she overthrows him shes able to make actual governmental changes to actually help the animals.
People object to the labelling of her as a “villain” because that invokes malice and ill intent. Glinda is weak, self centred and cowardly for the most part but is not an evil person. Her Inaction speaks volumes so antagonist sure? Unlikeable? Yep. Villainous? No. Also good to remember and mention that it’s Glinda that gets rid of the wizard in the end when elphaba is the one content with fleeing Oz with her boyfriend despite her mission not being completed and the thousands of Oz Animals still being mistreated. It’s silly to paint either of them as Good or Evil when the whole point of the movie and performance is there are two sides to every story and nothing is that simple
The part with Elphaba leaving at the end is such a good point! I think that Elphaba really changed after No Good Deed, when she dropped her altruistic attempts because… they simply weren’t working for her. Her life had gone worse since she chose to help the animals, but all that may lead to Glinda finally doing the good because she is actually in a position of power to do it
Okay, so if Elphaba was popular because she was the greatest sorcery student in a generation and doing Glinda-esque things with her magic to magic-less Glinda, would that be okay to you?
That's interesting. Part of the trouble with interpreting Glinda as the villain is her portrayal as a deuteragonist. Half the play is from her perspective, and the iconic poster markets the two witches as counterparts, a pair. It largely depends on how you interpret the story and how you define "villain". Glinda definitely acts villainous, but her role as Elphaba's actual antagonist is inconsistent, and is mixed with moments of flawed friendship and sisterhood - and this is the source of the drama. In the wider context of the story, Madam Morrible and Oz working to exploit Elphaba and silence the animals are much clearer antagonists than Glinda. It's only through them that Glinda advances past schoolyard rivalry and truly damages Elphaba. This feels like a betrayal because Glinda's arc is more complex than the villains she enables. She starts the story as a dumb kid and ends it by helping Elphaba, and to me that conflicts with calling her "the" villain.
I wholeheartedly agree with this. Glinda did some truly wicked things in her past, but during act 2 she never wanted to hurt Elphie or Nessa. When she found out Elphie and Fiyero were flirting behind her back, she was hurt and gave Madam Morrible the idea to start a rumor, which ultimately lead to Nessa's death, but she never intended for it to go that far. We even see her mourn Nessa, even though we never saw her care for Nessa before. She helps Elphie flee again and again throughout the story despite being a public figure and working for the Wizard. The blue dress in act 2 is to visually symbolize to the audience her character growth, and judging by the teaser photos of Ari I've seen, we'll be getting a gorgeous blue gown in part 2. While Glinda isn't a perfect "good witch" she definitely isn't a villain. I thought all Wicked fans understood by now that the point of the musical was that good and bad is never black and white and that Elphaba and Glinda's actions in the musical represent that, but it seems this new movie is causing some unnecessary discourse.
Literally! I cover politics pretty extensively and as soon as I saw this story I spotted the neoliberal centrist vs the abolitionist plot point immediately. And yet so many people are like Glinda is “complicated” 🤣 Glinda isn’t the only villain in this story, but she isn’t absolved from being one either. It’s plain as day that too many people see themselves in Glindas character and that’s why they defend her. You nailed it with this one.
Ooohhh I literally said this in my comment. People see themselves in Glinda but obviously villian has a negative connotation so they refuse to see her as such since they don't want to see themselves as a villian either.
yessss and also with cynthia being casted, it adds another layer of context of misogynoir and antiblack racism i feel like, and to see HOW MUCH ariana has been centered in the marketing of the movie and kind of the movie as a whole, has been frustrating to say the least. when you look up the cast, the first person to pop up is ariana as galinda and cynthia as elphaba next. however when you look up the original wicked broadway cast, it almost always lists idina/elphaba first, and kristin/galinda next. BECAUSE ELPHABA IS THE MAIN CHARACTER AND SHOULD BE LISTED FIRST. maybe im reaching but it just jumps out in my face. also should point out that most other website lists cynthia first but google seems to not. also reading articles comparing who was the better elphaba between idina and cynthia and that also is a very messy area. omg edit again but she mentions this in the video 😭 i didn’t see cuz i commented before finishing the video 😨
I do admit: while I resent Galinda for being so self-absorbed and plastic while having everything, I do pity Elpheba for her green skin and the torment she endures from the world for it.
From the second act “there are very few at ease with moral ambiguities and so we act as if they don’t exist”. This is the core of the story - neither of them is all good or all bad - there are ambiguities in both of them - the whole concept of good guys and bad guys misses the point of the piece IMO
I feel like this response is a cop-out of sorts. Whether or not Glinda shows capacity for empathy, growth or regret doesn't change what she ultimately does. We understand that her character has nuance and complexities that inform her choices, but it doesn't change what those choices are. To read Glinda, especially in Act 1, as just morally ambiguous funnily buys into one of the major critiques the musical has. Perception over reality.
@@balanceis_key Glinda is a poltician who puts efficency over morality. Glinda betrays her friend to stay with the wizard and advance her own political career at the expense of the animals yeah its not the moral thing to do but what if Glinda hadn't stayed? she could barely fight off 1 palace guard you expect her to be a fugitive? She doesn't have op magic like elphie to defend herself. what about her family, they don't have political positions to protect them like Elphaba's family. She could help maybe a few dozen animals escape before getting herself and Elphie captured and crucified to death like Fiyero was for helping the enemy. And then the wizard would still be in power and nothing would have changed. But by staying shes able to do what she does best, politics. She uses the wizards own propoganda against him by building a public image replacing him as the figurehead of Oz, and then when she overthrows him shes able to make actual governmental changes to actually help the animals.
@@oflynn_flowerchild1412 I love that this conversation is being prompted, but I think you can admit what you are saying doesn't discount anything I've said about her character. Nothing about Glinda (by the time Act 1 finishes) indicates she independently cares about the Animals to assume she's taking a measured approach to help. We see her actively contribute to the hostility towards them, and her previous treatment towards Elphaba is really just an extension of this hostility. There's a reason when she goes after Elphaba, it isn't to tell her to disrupt the system from within, but to accept it. There's a reason she calls it "her cause" and not theirs. Because it isn't. Up until this point she only gives empty gestures, and *only* if it provides her social power or is within it. With that, I completely understand why she doesn't go with Elphaba -- but it isn't because she has another plan. She just wants Elphaba to stop with hers. The "good" Glinda we see by the end of Wicked only exists because of characters of Elphaba and Fiyero forcing her to contend with her internal politics, and not because she was working in tandem (intended) with them. I think we have to appreciate what the text provides about Glinda, because it really doesn't hold its punches. She *is* complicit, until she *cannot* be. Even then, she is using the same tools/tactics that brought the devastation to the Animals in the first place. That's what makes the musical so tragic.
She isn’t the "villain" of the story,but she is the wicked one,and she acknowledges this in no one mourns the wicked by saying that her awful behavior made everyone to leave her and she'll die alone. Unlike the wizard and madam morrible,she doesn't want the animals to suffer but does absolutely nothing about it and that's her biggest crime; I agree with your thoughts as a fellow glinda hater but having an antagonistic role doesn’t necessarily mean villain yk?
Anybody else love Glinda as a villain/antagonist/perfomative ally/complicit neoliberal centrist/whatever you'd like to call her and find it....strange that there's suddenly this righteous debate around morally justifying simply loving her in the fandom? She's self-absorbed, saccharine, calculating, and determined to be viewed as "good" in the eyes of others no matter the cost. In the political sense, she struggles to summon the noble courage to be revolutionary because, amongst other things, she has an intuitive understanding of power dyanmics and just how easy it is to snuff out rebellious opposition. She intends to be a key player and has made it her favorite past time to subdue any opposition to the illusion of her "goodness" through charm, wit, and glamour. So when she is faced with the greater looming threat of a systematic structure she can't outright overpower through sheer force like Elphaba, or charm into submission like she usually does, she silences whatever her true moral standings on the issue are and does what most people do: she plays the role she's asked to play for the benefit of doing what is best for herself. She embodies what it means to be a "character you love to hate." All the while, there's a doubtful confidence & ambitious self-assuredness coupled with grief that follows her through some tough moments where we see her humanity, not in a way that vindicates her actions at all but evaluates the prompt of the entire show so poignantly: are people born wicked, or do they have wickedness thrust upon them? This is a theme we, the audience, are asked to honestly examine in both Elphaba and Glinda, equally. She's really not all that nice or good, and personally, I don't see a need to justify it 😂 She's more like most of us than most of us are willing to admit. It's perfectly messed up in the best way possible.
Omfg thank you, someone here actually understands musical galinda! Like in the video, the reason people have so much trouble justifying liking her is because of the optics she is written to have as a character, and the marketing around both the musical and the movie. Distilling Galinda’s character to the Popular song and her ditzy acting is basically exactly what the character herself would want you to think! That, and Ariana Grande’s idea of method acting - changing her entire public persona to act as if she IS Galinda, but without all those silly politics - has made it more difficult for audiences to see the true essence of Galinda’s role in the story. I think even Ariana herself isn’t critical of her own character, when she’s questioned in interviews she says that Galinda is a good person and Elphaba and Galinda are both just doing their best.
I feel like people who defend Glinda has probably has her personality characteristics because no one in the right mind support Glinda she is based Regina George from Mean girl.
@Vineethajojo i completely respect that opinion. I feel people who are jumping to find 50 different ways to point out the flaws in her choices, with the added tone of moral superiority in claiming her as "the villain" while paying no attention to nuances of her character, fail to see the unfortunate similarities in her behavior with their own in real life. But that is also my opinion!
No, it's people who've only seen Part 1 that could be forgiven for thinking Glinda is the villain. Absolutely wild take to have knowing the whole story where she literally takes down the wizard, continues Elphaba's mission of restoring rights for the animals, and has a heartfelt parting with Elphaba where they both acknowledge the positive influence they've had on each other.
Like her starting out shallow and self-absorbed and learning from Elphaba to become a better and more caring person is the central arc of the entire story! It doesn't work if she isn't unlikable at first but she learns from her mistakes! The whole point is that nobody is all good or all bad.
I disagree. Cynthia made a very bad choice and made herself look a "bad guy". Nobody manufactured it like the wizard did with Elphaba - she did it herself.
I agree, people have looked a blind eye at Spongebob guy LEAVING HIS WIFE AND A BABY…No shade at Ari…but then Cynthia got emotional and protective over a cherished as fuck role online and people were ridiculing her
@@LCTmusic683I mean is Cynthia better? She’s just like Ari in her homewrecker ways sleeping with Lena Waithe, a married woman, and breaking up a marriage.
@@LCTmusic683 I mean I've seen nothing but criticism of Ariana for the affair lol, maybe her fans have turned a blind eye? But crazy fanbases tend to do that
I feel so validated by this video. When I was discussing with my cousin, he defended Glinda by saying she is innocent and had good intent. But something just felt off. If she had good intent, she would have joined Elphaba, and she wouldn’t have defended the wizard. This is so poignant, that’s what happens in reality. We get fooled all the time
I also think this villain arc follows her in her songs like you said with Popular. Kristen Chenowith said something similar about Galinda and I think it’s even more evident in the movie, but her higher notes and showier songs are definitely to compensate for her poor intent and selfishness. For example, in No One Mourns she is singing gut wrenching realizations as if she’s celebrating but really it’s tearing her apart. It’s operatic and incredible sounding, but you unless you focus on it you don’t notice the stark difference in lyrics and delivery. Same goes in For Good where her and Elphaba swap who sings what melodies. It’s the one time Galinda fully allows Elphaba to sing the range in which she (G) normally does. I think it shows her character realizing her mistakes and allowing Elphaba to have that moment to have an upper hand since Elphaba will allow Galinda to continue to live in the lies for her reputation. She knows how important it is to Galinda and that is the one moment they are allowing themselves to acknowledge the truth of what really happened the whole time I loved your interpretation and reasoning and have been enjoying the Wicked content! keep going I’m eating it up lol
i agree glinda is kinda a bitch. but i think that’s the irony in the ENTIRE song of “no one mourns the wicked”, she’s singing how she has empathy for her and that she died alone and then kept side eyeing the munchkins singing horrible things about her. if we watched the same movie… you can see she was NOT a happy when she saw the statue and hesitantly burnt the statue down. anyway back to the irony of the song, they say no one mourns the wicked when SHE WAS mourning and grieving. i think in part 2 that’s her character development bc glindas problem right through part 1 is that she is a people pleaser and she went right through her life being perfect and loved. so I part 2, i think she clears elphaba’s name after she’s done telling the story of how they met.
@@growingupwithdisneyI mean when Elphaba tells her that, Glinda automatically says "No." Elphaba has to spend time convincing her to go along with her plan.
I’m just not buying that she’s *the* villain, this is very well thought out video and very interesting watch!! She definitely is supposed to represent conformity, but from interviews with Stephen Schwartz, and the other people behind the musical the show is supposed to represent female friendship also as one of the big themes. The song For Good is quite literally impossible to interpret as anything other than two friends reconciling at the very end when they know they can’t see each other again, but still thanking each other for what they did to their lives. The main thesis of the show is basically that no one is what they seem, it’s encouraging you to think about how people are depicted. Glinda represents a person who does care, but is ultimately weak from her desire to be seen as good
In life, how many times have people been ugly to their friends? Its possible. It happens all the time. Friends slowly ghost each other, use each other for their access, or any number of things. It just means they aren't the same people they once were and that's normal. Which is why friendships change, grow, or end; much like any relationship.
@@alexisgarcia1344 Mostly correct, but the racial allegory fails to land because the Shizz students are already hyper-woke. It is inconceivable to believe that a progressive, multi-racial, cross-dressing, trans-inclusive, pan-gendered, pan-sexual student body would unanimously ostracize reject a new student because she is green. Make it make sense.
I think that the aesthetic of Galina's character is part of it, but I think another BIG part of why people think Galinda is not the villain is because people can see themselves in her character and cannot conceive how their hypothetical actions (or lived actions depending on the situation) would make THEM the villain. People can have a difficult time accepting flaws in their own character which could make it difficult to recognize those same traits in other people/fictional characters as bad.
the lack of nuance is crazy and everyone forgets how glinda is TELLING the whole story of wicked. glinda IS sharing the truth about elphaba despite elphaba telling her not to, because she realizes she loves her friend more than anything!!!
This was a really well thought out essay, but I don’t think that that’s the point of I think the point is there isn’t such a thing as someone who is purely one thing or the other that you can be both and that it’s not about your circumstances, but what you choose to do with them. Is Galinda self absorbed spineless and only concerned for herself? Yes absolutely no one can deflect that. Her motives throughout act one are entirely self absorbed but… do those traits alone make her the villain? I think there’s a way you can argue both sides here, and THATS the theme of the show. Some say she was naive self absorbed etc, some might say she maliciously made that suggestion in act 2 about putting nessa in danger which is probably true the ways I’ve seen it played. But then we have to wrestle with the question what matters more here: intent or impact? There’s no right or wrong answer here. Elphaba INTENDED to be a hero and take down the wizard when she rejected him but did she? No. She made an enemy of herself had an affair with her best friends fiancée, went on to use the flying monkeys as servants, kidnapped a girl and got herself killed/banished Glinda INTENDED to stay behind to protect her reputation. Did she? Yes and she also: caused the death of her best friends sister, got her fiancée turned into a scarecrow dismantled Oz’s power structure, was complicit in the wizards schemes etc. but THATS the point. Saying Glinda is the villain is saying elphaba is the hero. Elphabas motives WERE more morally correct and she may be a better person, but I don’t think that makes her the hero more than Glinda being a selfish spineless person makes her a villain. I think that’s the point they’re both just people trying to do the best that they can do to survive. No one is one thing
In a comment section of people discouraging black and white thinking, "if glinda is the villain, then elphaba is the hero, therefore, no!" is an interesting rebuttal to read.
I thought about Glinda alot lately haha and I think she is the perfect example of somebody that has fallen victim to a harmful society. Probably her whole life she's been working her ass off to be this perfect person and very much works the system to crawl up the ladder of success and glory. Elfaba on the contrary never even had the slightest chance of achieving that persona because whe is born green. She starts her life as an outsider and then kinda randomly gets catapulted to the top because of her magical gift. Yes elfaba totally deserves that and had to endure a lot of shit her whole life but in a way glinda had to work way harder to be recognised by the wizard than elfaba. and because of this i think it's much harder for glinda to make the decision to "throw it all away" like elfaba does. Elfaba never even had the chance to really fit in, she just never did, but glinda did and it's all she knows and kinda her life's work.
Wow I've been wrestling with trying to understand why Glinda declined going with Elphaba at the end, but this helps put her choice into perspective. Thanks!
Glinda didn't have to work hard. She was born into prestige. She was liked due to status. Elphaba literally had to work 3 x as hard due to her skin color. I think you have to have dealt with stereotypical insults to see the truth.
@@madeinhisimage9277 In the books Glinda is from a middle class family shes vaguely descendant of some nobility but doesn't have any prestige. Thats why she works to build her public image, shes a social climber.
I've never read the book or saw the play. So after I saw the movie I thought to myself "why do people like glinda so much? Why do people always say are you an elphie or a glinda? How is glinda and elphie's friendship even a thing?" Glinda is not a good person and only befriends elphie bc she feels bad for her after elphie does something nice and bc she thinks elphie can do more nice things for her (aka take her to see the wizard and share her good fortune). I feel like it's not even a true friendship. I guess maybe she gets better in the second act, but seeing as how the story ends with everyone dying and glinda and the wizard winning (as evident in the wizard of oz) I don't see how it's possible for her to be redeemed. I am trying not to spoil too much of the second half for myself so I can see where the story goes. But I just don't understand how wicked is known for this amazing friendship when their friendship feels off to me. Is it just bc I haven't seen the second half? But also how dark is it that Glinda and the wizard win while everyone else dies. It gives a whole different perception on the wizard of oz.
The beauty of art is that its subjective! Without mentioning the musical or the movie, because I loved the book and never had a chance to see the musical. In the book it's very clear to me that the point is that each person has good and evil in them. It can be argued that the wicked witch also turns to have really negative traits even as using animals as slaves. Whatever she once stood for, she turned it negative. Point is both are good AND bad. Wicked also has maaaany plot holes to what's canon and it is supposed to be a redemption story for the wicked witch aside from the political view of the book. Again both characters are complex. I always thought that even when i only knew the book. It's impossible to say which one is the good or the bad since they both do good and bad things especially if you take the entire lore into account. I don't think all she cares about is herself. I think based on her character she is very easily manipulated and ends believing everything and anything. She is so desperate for love and attention. Elphaba is not the perfect character you describe either... Especially if we think outside of the wicked book I think it's important to remember everyone is nuanced. Lets agree to disagree 💐
I guess im looking at the motivations - glindas motivation behind 90% of her decisions is her own benefit, while elphabas motivation is helping the animals. i almost feel like the point that elphaba “isn’t perfect” further proves my point… she never does anything nearly as bad as what glinda does but we judge her much more harshly. we will always give glinda the benefit of the doubt and assume she was manipulated, even if she was the major manipulator of especially this first movie. there’s truth to the nuance of trying to do good vs actually doing good, which is what elphabas arc is about and what the message of the song no good deed is, but ultimately glinda isn’t manipulated, she’s a manipulator! i think the comment i read worded it perfectly - we can acknowledge she has emotions and a character arc while still understanding that she was in the wrong for most of her actions in the show!
The Musical changes a lot, didn't really like the books either, and to me when Wicked has veered so far away from the books its just a mess. I think the film will do well without the general audiences keeping up with the story, and I am wondering if all these people showering the first film with praise will do the same for part 2.
@@meredithnovaco Her motivation is simple : she wants to help from inside the system in contrast to Elphaba. In the books both girls understand each other. Also well, Elpahab is kinda useless and bad as well but that's a conversation for part two
@@wellhellothere-v1h yeah but it's not THAT simple. and i haven't read the book but i think the play does a great a job at applying the concept that everyone has the capacity to be both good and evil. the entire first act she wants one thing and that's to be great and powerful. when u look at her motivations for almost everything she does, it's in her own self interest. while that doesn't make her totally villainous, it drives the point home that everyone can be both good and evil
@@tajmalik1748 The word I would use for Glinda is not "selfish" but "spineless" specially if you've read the books and seen the play. Glinda mostly does things out of presssure but also was actually intending to help the animals from the inside which even Elphaba understood. Unfortunately these books are not very great so neither Elphaba nor Glinda do anything for the animals lol
What people seem to overlook is that the whole point of the show thematically is that there is not A villain. Sure, Morrible and the Wizard are as villanous as they come, and other characters like Glinda, Elphaba's dad, and Nessa are heavily antagonistic as well. But to me the point is that OZ, the whole world, is wrong. The munchkins are wrong because they've been fed lies and fear, Glinda is wrong for knowing better and going along with it for self preservation and ego reasons, all of them either play an active role in a corrupt society or are victims to it. Except Elphaba, because she was ostracized by said society, and is heavily empathetic to other marginalized groups as a result. It's a beautiful exploration of how those that are pushed out by society are sometimes the only ones able to look at the big picture and realize just how wrong the social norm is. And Glinda being complicit is what really drives the point home, she can be a fun, charming, charismatic and friendly person, but she's not willing to put her reputation on the line to defend others because honestly she doesn't care about others that much. And that's so, so real. In a world full of 'social media activists' who will change their bios and share infographics on real pressing world issues, but then not be willing to actually do anything else lest their image be damaged, it's way too real.
Finally! Someone says what I am thinking! I am actually a HUGE Ariana Grande stan, but I am also an English teacher and a staunch leftist progressive, and I understand that Wicked is the story of surface level beauty and goodness which masks grandiose narcissism versus the struggles of a person who was born with every strike against them and, as such, has spent enough time on the fringe of society to notice how awful it is. Elphaba was NOT born wicked; quite the contrary! Galinda/Glinda actually has no place being a good witch. Elphaba should have run Oz and then the animals would have maintained their rightful position and voices, Nessa would have been stopped before creating such damage, and the rest of Oz would have been able to live in harmony! But that’s my Bernie Sanders/AOC agenda lol.
I think my biggest problem with thinking of Glinda as a villain is because it heavily others the “Glinda” when imo the biggest Glinda in the world will always be ourselves. Let me see if I can explain what I mean. We’re the ones we’re most likely to make concessions for, and even though we may not do what Glinda did, many of us can and do take similar actions in the name of comfort and avoiding being ostracized. I don’t like people who say, “Glinda is a villain, Glinda is evil, I hate Glinda”, because I feel like we’re meant to empathize with Glinda, in the sense that we’re meant to use her as a warning sign and see a projection of ourselves in her. I don’t like seeing Glinda as the villain to be destroyed in the way of progress, because that heavily takes the reflection out of it and makes it way too black and white which as you said is the point of the show, and I feel like it’s an important point
99% of us are Galinda's. Fewer of us are Glidnda's, that will be put in positions of power and do things to harm (or to not impede the harm of) others. Not many people are Elphaba's. We like to think we are. But we aren't.
In this household we stan the following: - Elphaba - Fiyero - The animals Doctor Dillamond is not just a goat, he is THE G.O.A.T and anyone who fucks with him (either directly or by being complicit) can go away
I FREAKING LOVE FIYERO, the fact that he leaves everything, his title, his wealth, and choose to go with elphaba because he knows that is the right thing to do. He doesn't care what other people think of him I'm just glad that elphaba and fiyero got together in the end and got their happy ending in the musical.
@ilmanmufiydhaagustadia_1346 you're small minded, elphaba and fiyero accomplish nothing by the end of story, so how can they be the heroes or what they did right? While Glinda literally finally gets rid of the wizard on her own
Meredith, first time here, and I must say you are so articulate! I JUST posted my first time watching Wizard of Oz and I also picked up that she literally misdirects Dorothy to the Wizard knowing FULL WELL that he is powerless. I called her out and everyone in the comments was like, Wow bro so judgmental. Hahaha so great to hear you agree!
villains have a very specific role in any story. glinda isn’t a villain, she’s a just another grey character in this grey story. yes, i think she’s WRONG about most things, but that doesn’t make her a villain. i’ve seen the musical and ive read the book. just because she ISNT a villain does NOT mean she’s right. the whole point of the story is that good and evil are DECISIONS we make, which means we can’t label individuals as good or evil because they can always turn and either disappoint or surprise us. the story encourages people to think for themselves instead of labeling people as good or evil. like, come on man.
But the CONTEXT of when she’s morally grey makes her a villain. 9/10 times she acts out of self interest and doesn’t care about the consequences until it either becomes life or death or if it would cause the people around her to see her as a villain. Outside of that she never really does anything purely out the kindness of her heart which is pretty villainous
@@blessedb277 again, villains have a very specific role in a story. glinda's character is different and deserves to be analyzed accurately, but you can't do that if you push her into the villain box.
As someone currently playing Glinda (who has not watched the movie yet-), She is not a good person. She has a weak character (as in morally, not the writing, the writing is great), she's selfish, spoiled, and lacks empathy in the great majority of the time. Still, I wouldn't call her a villain. After she befriends Elphaba, she doesn’t have the intention of harming anyone. Yes, she goes along with a harmful institution out of convenience - again, not a good person - but she doesn’t _want_ people to be harmed. Not an excuse, it is a bad thing, but I would in that case classify her as a pawn of the villains instead of a villain herself And I do believe she becomes a better person by the very end of the show, when she confronts Morrible and the Wizard. She was even willing to give up being well-liked in favor of telling the truth about Elphaba, which she only didn’t because the latter made her promise ("Elphie, I'll tell them everything" "No! They'll only turn against you." "I don't care!" "I do! Promise me, promise me, you won't try to clear my name..." "Alright... I promise. But I don't understand.")
For people who defend Glinda, there is an obvious counterpoint: Fiyero. In part 2, people will see that he's meant to be a foil character to Glinda. Elphaba changes both Glinda and Fiyero's lives forever but Fiyero is more willing to accept this change and willing to sacrifice his comfortable, privileged life to be with her. He represents true allyship. Since this story is so much about racism, I think Fiyero represents those rare, few white people who were abolitionists and participated in the Civil Rights movement. He has just as much to lose as Glinda (he's a prince!) and yet he chooses to do the right thing. He actually resists from the inside by joining the Guard in order to search for Elphaba and make sure she doesn't get captured by the Wizard. And, in contrast to Glinda, when presented with the choice to stay in the system that gives him power and status, he chooses to go with Elphaba. Yes, it's he's because he's in love with her but also, as you mentioned, he shows true concern over what's happening to the Animals. One thing I noticed they changed from the stage show is that when we first meet Fiyero in the forest he's riding a talking Horse. I think they'll dive into this more in part 2 but I suspect they're going to make the point that Fiyero and Elphaba share something in common which is that Animals have been central to their lives and they feel a great desire to protect them. So for people who act like Glinda couldn't have chosen differently, Fiyero proves that's just an excuse.
Glinda actually has some good in her. The way she felt sorry for Elphaba when everybody was laughing at her during that dance scene was very touching. It showed that she had a heart. To me, she's more of a villain the same way Darth Vader was the villain in Star Wars. Selfish on the exterior, but there's that human heart hidden deep within. Of course, I've never seen the stage play. So I'm only judging based on what I've seen in the film.
@@LikelyLost So? A truly evil person wouldn't have felt anything and laughed along with the rest. It took guts to put herself out there in a vulnerable position for Elphaba even when her two friends were begging her not to.
@@thedudeabides2531 i agree but i think it's fair to assume that she would've proven to be that truly evil person had elphaba not given her what she's wanted her whole life.
@@tajmalik1748 I think the author(s) of Wicked intended to show that Glinda had some good in her. If the viewer had this perception of Glinda that she's this irredeemable evil person, would the viewer shed a tear during that touching scene when she puts herself out there to ridicule in order to help her new friend Elphaba? To me, it's the heart of the film. It's always much more profound when characters have multiple layers.
Well y'all should've read the books instead It's more clear in the books that the difference between Elphaba and Glinda is that Glinda wants to help the animals from inside the system while Elphaba wants to be a complete rebel. Both of them understand each other's decision
I see the story as more of a character study of how one can become the villain. Why I love for example Revenge of the Sith in the Star Wars Universe. In the book she is born scary to those in her family with sharp teeth, so that her Mom cannot even feed her naturally. Not necessarily evil but she can't help herself and whenever she gets mad, her powers make bad things happen. When she tries her spells, they just turn out badly, making her seen as the villain by those around her. She wants to use her powers to save the animals but it's like corrupt a wish. . .Also rewatched the Wizard of Oz recently and she really just wanted those ruby slippers back because they were her sisters' shoes and the powers she knew they had, but Glinda makes the shoes so that cannot be removed from Dorothy without taking her out. Glinda knows how Popularity is used and how politicians do the "you scratch my back, I will scratch yours" diplomacy that politicians use. Favors for favors and really how all elections for power are about who knows who you are, being Popular her most famous song in the musical. Glinda is about preserving herself and getting what is best for herself in the story.
It's mainly white women that defend glinda and that says alot as they see themselves in glindas character. Choosing privelldge and staying comfortable but somehow wishing it was different but not doing much about it and turning their backs as long as they're safe and sound
Sorry but but I disagree, Glinda isn't the villain of Wicked, The Wizard and Madame Morrible are. Glinda is an antagonist to Elphaba but an important distinction to remember is antagonist =/= villain. Antagonists rival the protagonist whereas villains have an added malicious intent behind their actions, often we see them used together on the same character but I don't think Glinda is one of those situations. Glinda is not a nice person, but I wouldn't call her evil (yes I know she bullies Elphaba in act 1, but I'm looking at the character from the overall perspective of the musical). You said it yourself, Glinda is very selfish, but being selfish just makes you a shitty person, not villainous. I know it probably sounds like I'm being rather pedantic about antagonists vs villains but I feel like too many people nowadays don't recognize that words have power and if we use them incorrectly one too many times the incorrect word becomes reality in many people's minds. Also there was one thing I believe you misinterpreted that I wanted to put my perspective on. You say Glinda wasn't actually thinking about Dr. Dillamond during the train station scene while also seemingly implying that Fiyero and Elphaba were, which isn't true. None of them were thinking about Dr. Dillamond, when Fiyero makes that comment to Elphaba they are referring to the moment they had in the forest where they actually get to understand each other for the first time. The comment had nothing to do with Dr. Dillamond and the mistreatment of the Animals in Oz.
She might not be the villain but the point of the story is that people perceive certain people as good when they aren't and others as villains when they aren't. The world's standards for what's "good and evil" is sometimes backwards and it leads to people being deeply misunderstood.
I’d say Glinda is the deuteragonist. Those are characters that can help/oppose the main character depending on their own personal conflicts. I’d say that describes Glinda perfectly.
I feel like there are enough inconsistencies in the definitions and usage of "hero"/"villain"/"protagonist"/ and no clear source of truth that these terms have lost a lot of their distinctual meaning vis a vis narrative analysis. I say this because I actually disagree with your definition of a villain and now I've realized there's no real way to confirm which definition is objectively the correct one. I'll keep it short. I've operated with the assumption that the villain is defined by the setting, not by their relationship to the protagonist. This is why it makes sense to say "this movie is from the perspective of the villain". Jigsaw is initially the villain of Saw X despite also being the protagonist. So is Hannibal in Hannibal Rising. In this case, Elphaba is the villain. I don't think Glinda is the hero though. I think that title still belongs to Dorothy before she is even introduced. I'm not sure Act 1 even has a hero. I think Glinda is the deuteragonist. The antognist is whatever's keeping them sperate. In this case, some of it is Oz but really it's the general concept of prejudice that more accurately describes the antagonist. I think a fun word to use in place of "villain" that is more aligned with the protagonist's specific perspective is the word "enemy". Oz is certainly an enemy. I tthink you could make the argument that Glinda is an enemy.
I agree that Glinda is some kind of "bad ally". She is trying to be and she is very sweet in her attempt and you also see Elphie smiling at it, but Glinda is just really such an bad ally, because the point is: When it comes to real support that requires courage, she leaves her friend. I belong to the aspec community and often feel left out with my desires, life goals and identity even within the queer community. When Elphies sings "Too late for second-guessing, Too late to go back to sleep" it really touched my heart. It's releaving to embrace the own identity, but it also means turning one's back to many privileges that society holds for allo people. I wanted Glinda to go with Elphaba in that moment so deeply and it broke my heart when she didn't. Sorry for my english. I am from Germany;)
Glinda and Elphaba come at the discrimination of the fascist Ozian government from two different angles. But Glinda is currently definitely on the wrong side of Ozian history. Elphaba from the perspective of someone who's been discriminated against for her looks and her magic, so she is empathetic towards the animals and opts to take on the label of wicked so as to help the animals. She's the rebel, the activist, the person most of us who've never experienced real discrimination can't relate well too. Whereas Glinda comes at the discrimination of the animals as that of someone in a place of privilege and doesn't understand why it matters cos she's not an animal and non of her friends are so she doesn't see it as a bad thing to discriminate against the animals. She doesn't question it, infact she actively doesn't support independent thinking. As shown by her concern for Feryo thinking, reminds me of Gaston saying books aren't for women lol. But she is, like most of us in places of any position of privilege in society, a product of her environment and education. The world suits her just fine cos she fits in it the way she should. But even then it's all performative. She's our main relatable/character insert cos in the west (by which I mean North Americas and Europe) she the character the majority can relate too as she's the gold standard for what wyt women should be like in modern society. Elphaba is a real authentic ally to the animals, but Glinda performs allyship to keep "the good" label, not cos she actually cares but cos she NEEDs to be loved and wanted. The irony is both Elphaba and Glinda have low self esteem with high self confidence, but for very different reasons. Elphaba knows morally she's in the right, has a small sense of superiority for it but mostly is selfless. Glinda is anxiously self confident to feed her poor sense of self esteem. Likely cos she only got love growing up if she performed the role of government offices idealised child. She's never learnt to think for herself, to survive her childhood. And Elphaba had to learn to think for herself to survive her childhood. I love the musical but hated how they left the fate of the animals under Glindas rule so unaddressed. I really hope in the next movie that really flesh out Glinda realising she's in the wrong and making changes to fix her mistakes, some scenes of her learning from Elphaba would be nice, as would seeing her change the laws around animals that the wizard put in place. I'll not say she's a good person until she uses her power for the welfare of the animals. But we'll have to wait and see for that. I do think Glinda is an important character, as we need role models of people who were raised/educated to be ignorant to the plights of others, learning she was wrong and changing accordingly. It's unfair on minorities to always have to educate and advocate for themselves, we need people who arent discrimination against to learn the error of their ways and adapt without minorities having to train them or hold their hands (I was at a trans day of remembrance service, for all the trans folk lost in the last year, and the organisers were so busy either comforting trans folks who lost loved ones, which is what they were there to do, or having to take time to pat the backs of "ally's" who were wanting praise for being ally's and turning up - you can guess which of the two examples took up the most time for the organisers and it wasn't the ones who needed the most support). Like in the movie when the wizard asks if it's Elphabas wish is to not be green anymore and she pauses, cos part of her that is her biggest wish, for herself that is, but she cares more about the animals than herself and that's why her wish is for the welfare of the animals. It's not performative to her, it's literal. The only reason she gave the monkey wings was cos the wizard tricked her into thinking it was the monkeys wish and she had no idea what would happen to all of them. I hope it's addressed in the next movie why the monkeys switch to Elphabas side. That's the lesson Glinda is meant to learn in the second movie. And the lesson we need to learn also, especially these days, it's hard for people to admit they were wrong and change, in part cos we make it harder for them to change by vilifying people too early and too strictly. Like at the current stage of the movies version of the story, it is too early to call Glinda a villain, she's a child at this stage still in school and still learning to think independently from what she's been taught. Yes she not a good person, but she wants to be, she just doesn't understand the hows yet cos she thinks what's she is doing is the right way to be good. Shetnot fully learnt to recognise Elphabas rebelliousness as more good than her, cos it's more authentic. She's still a kid. That's why Glinda isn't a villain, not yet, she's on the path towards villainy in this movie. In the next we will see her go down that path more, than regret it and try to course correct. I hope they do that journey, the awkwardness and uncomfortableness of it justice (something like a scene where she has to apologise to the animals and they don't immediately trust her, rightly so, she'd need to okay with them not trusting her right away and acknowledge it'll take time earn their trust though positive actions). I just hope the movie her learning and fixing her mistakes is addressed better than it was in the musical. If it's done well she can be called good while finally acknowledging her own wickedness. The only thing in this first movie that I feel should be have been looked into more is NessaRoses suppressed wickedness, its shown a little in how she ms ashamed of Elphaba rather than supporting her when Elphaba really needed some support, but she's left as just the shy disabled girl, in the background mostly. In the musical her possessiveness and rudeness towards Elphaba is shown more from what I recall, like it was obvious she'd turn into the wicked witch of the East in the first act, even though it was subtle. Just a few shots of her giving some folk dark looks, or being manipulative of Buck or Elphaba, could've shown that NessaRose has a dark side (I know there's one shot of her looking angrily at Buck/Glinda but just makes her look jealous and insecure, doesn't really foreshadow a turn to the dark side - like a little more emphasis on her lack of caring when her dad fell ill at the end of the movie could've been focused on a little more). So it doesn't seem so weird in the next movie when she's in full tyrant mode with the poor munchkins. I also think, with the poppy scene, the magic only put to sleep the people who weren't upset about the caged cub, which is why it didn't work on Feryo, not cos Elphaba willingly choose for it not to work on him. I thought that when she made the comment about him being upset and him being shocked, cos he hides his true feelings well.
The whole point of the story is there are no "wicked" people. Her and Elphaba are foils, Glinda is a poltician who puts efficency over morality. Elphaba is a radical who puts personal convictions over her cause. Glinda betrays her friend to stay with the wizard and advance her own political career at the expense of the animals yeah its not the moral thing to do but what if Glinda hadn't stayed? she could barely fight off 1 palace guard you expect her to be a fugitive? She doesn't have op magic like elphie to defend herself. what about her family, they don't have political positions to protect them like Elphaba's family. She could help maybe a few dozen animals escape before getting herself and Elphie captured and crucified to death like Fiyero was for helping the enemy. And then the wizard would still be in power and nothing would have changed. But by staying shes able to do what she does best, politics. She uses the wizards own propoganda against him by building a public image replacing him as the figurehead of Oz, and then when she overthrows him shes able to make actual governmental changes to actually help the animals.
THIS THIS THIS!!! Omg! This is like the perfect analysis, you explained my exact thoughts so well. Also I feel like Glinda is a gray character and only should be perceived as such because as you said, her character is made to reflect the flaws of real people. In this case, false allyship and complicity in systemic oppression. But yeah this is sooo gooddd.
Your points are what I also noticed while watching the Wicked movie. And honestly, it made me appreciate the friendship between Glinda and Elphaba less. Idk anything about Wicked, but I was under the impression that their friendship is supposed to be very close and moving, but Glinda's selfishness made me feel like none of their moments were quite genuine. And now that I watched further into the video I feel like their friendship truly isn't that real. I'm disappointed, I wanted to be wrong because everybody makes their friendship seem desirable and like a true pair, but after watching the movie I was like am I missing something????
hmmm... maybe this is just me but i never viewed galinda dancing with elphaba and becoming friends with her as "repaying" her. i thought it was more that elphaba doing that for her, despite obviously hating her, made galinda really ask herself what the hell she was doing. i mostly agree with the characterization here overall, but i think glinda's change of heart came far before the end of the show. you see her questioning herself from the beginning, her and fiyero argue about it at the beginning of act 2, she rants to morrible during march of the witch hunters about how wrong it all is. so its weird, because she feels so much like a co-lead who doesnt _truly_ like any of the evil stuff happening, and yet you're right, going along with it because you're scared still makes you functionally a villain. i think that's what most people mean when they say shes "complicated" - not to justify, but understand her actions - at least it is for me.
💯!!! Galinda is a flawed character- a rich, selfish, beautiful, bigoted, mean girl. She was written this way on purpose, as the book intended to explore themes of racism and classism, amongst others. But when it was adapted into a musical, I noticed that many people seemed to overlook Galinda's cruelty. Instead, they got caught up in the voices and music and decided it was all about "besties." Lol! Seems even more so with the movie. Thank you for describing these themes so articulately.
THANK YOU. I read the book when it first came out and was sooooo obsessed with the broadway soundtrack once that came out! Have been incredibly annoyed by the way people have been talking about Glinda lately, without mentioning a word about the meaning of the story. Elphaba will always be my favorite! Anyway thanks for making this very important, objective point!
Galinda represents white feminism, she post a black square on Instagram (changing her name) but will vote and support Trump (the wizard). She's not a centrist at all, she chose a side and is performative and self serving
You have interpreted the story according to how the author intended. Thank you. Its unfortunate others are blind to it. Those who disagree are probably guilty of Glinda behavior and need to self reflect.
I think something else that plays a part in why Glinda is perceived as good by the audience and why people are so desperate to see her as only that and misunderstood is because they got to know her. They got to watch her relationship with Elphaba in this story, and they WANT to perceive it as good. It kinda makes me think of having family members or friends who do harmful stuff, but people turn a blind eye or give them so many justifications. It is because we WANT to perceive these people as good, since we know them on a more deeper level than we would a stranger or acquaintances who's doing the exact same harmful stuff. The Wizard, Madame Morrible, and Oz as a whole are supposed to be the villains, we barely know them, we can easily toss them aside, but Glinda is someone we spent so much time with, she's not so easily dismissible. It says a lot about the stakes of our morality, how far will we go to see what's right? Will we turn a blind eye to those closest to us simply because we are close to them. These people are special just because we built a relationship with them. We can humanize them and give them grace, but we can do that to every person, we can't be delusional on people's goodness and their lack of integrity. Glinda is someone I see myself getting close to, and believing the relationship was true, and that scares me
Reading through this comment section, the lyric "There are precious few at ease with moral ambiguities, so we act as though they don't exist" (from the act 2 song "Wonderful") has never been more relevant. The theme of the show was to complicate the assumptions around good and evil, not blindly flip them.
No Glinda is not the villain. It is the Wizard of Madame Morrible. She is a political prisoner of her own according. Elphie was born very dark-humored from the beginning. She even sucked on a bird's head as a baby and bit a finger off. Now in The Wizard of Oz Glinda is a villain. Elphaba just wants her sister's slippers. Glinda does show emotions in the beginning and also, she loves Elphie and even visits to try and tell Elphaba not to hurt Dorothy and Elphie agrees. I feel you are tone deaf.
yeah I was surprised by the comments I was getting which is what prompted the follow up!! I should’ve talked more about the message of the story in my original vid!!
So glad you posted this! I was telling my mom that I was caught a bit off guard by how good Ariana’s acting was because I think it enabled the Glinda character to be even “worse” than I remember her being in the stage version. I was anticipating the good/bad to feel more in between but she was almost solidly “bad” in my opinion. I don’t personally give points for recognizing the humanity in someone… while the moment dancing with Elphaba was very touching, it just shows that she has the capacity for empathy and largely chooses to ignore it to protect herself. She’s my favorite character and I can definitely relate to her, but I agree she’s a villain, or at least is not a helpful influence on society at large.
her nuance and complex character is so interesting that makes her my fav character too. we all are much closer to resembling glinda than elphaba but we don’t like to admit that
I felt like there really were no "wicked" people in the story. Her and Elphaba are foils, Glinda is a poltician who puts efficency over morality. Elphaba is a radical who puts personal convictions over her cause. Glinda betrays her friend to stay with the wizard and advance her own political career at the expense of the animals yeah its not the moral thing to do but what if Glinda hadn't stayed? she could barely fight off 1 palace guard you expect her to be a fugitive? She doesn't have op magic like elphie to defend herself. what about her family, they don't have political positions to protect them like Elphaba's family. She could help maybe a few dozen animals escape before getting herself and Elphie captured and crucified to death like Fiyero was for helping the enemy. And then the wizard would still be in power and nothing would have changed. But by staying shes able to do what she does best, politics. She uses the wizards own propoganda against him by building a public image replacing him as the figurehead of Oz, and then when she overthrows him shes able to make actual governmental changes to actually help the animals.
Wait wait wait, wicked is NOT a book on good vs evil. It is WAY more complicated than that. Its core is built around people's ability to think for themselves instead of just accepting things for what others tell you they are. Glinda is literally the character that enjoys her life in OZ only to get her eyes opened by Alphaba. Then she has to come to terms with the fact that her life was not as perfect as she thought it was. She then struggles trying to unsee the bad she was shown, only to later use her position to help OZ. Like Alphaba accepting her role as a villain, Glinda also had to accept her role as the golden child while both had to find ways to navigate behind the scenes to help OZ. The people themselves are too blinded by the politics that these two girls end up becoming a part of. But both make moves for the greater good. As Glinda grows, she does become wiser, and kinder. while Alphaba who was already wise and kind becomes more jaded. Was Glinda good? No, but she wasn't bad either. She was young. And through most of her journey, she has to deal with learning being actually GOOD is a ln abstract concept, and that things are not so black and white. She learns she was spoiled, but she uses that to grow over time, much like Alphaba wasn't 100 percent good either near the end of her journey. (This is all book stuff btw.) Both made mistakes. Both involving the Nessa incident. But I wouldn't call Glinda the villain any more than I would call Alphaba the hero. They are literally two women navigating a political war. The wizard and Madame morrible were the villains. For sure. Those two had goals, and were willing to sacrifice people left and right to reach it. And their goals were selfish unlike the goals of Glinda and Alphaba. Honestly your position, is a very good representation of your generation's point of view of morality. It's very much in line with Alphaba's at the start of the story. Very "this is this, that is that." And no room for questioning. Which I think is why this story is such a great for Gen Z now that they are adults. Especially because of how our Political system is constructed now. So please for the love of God, don't just STOP analyzing this story at face value. Because there's so much more too this than "Glinda the mean girl". Now it's been a LONG while since I last read the book, and I never finished the 3rd. But I remember the details of this story because of how complex it was. I'm I saying everything you said is wrong? No, but it's not the full story either. And you have a lot of the story down already, but there's still a lot more to it. Mainly the mistakes the characters made on their journeys. One thing I think you misunderstood with Glinda, is she wasn't like the people of OZ who blatantly ignored the movments of evil. Glinda may not of been as active or all hands in like the prince (who actually is a foil to Glinda to show her duality) but she still made meaningful plays, at the request of Alphaba. That's basically why Glinda got her part in defying gravity. It's to show how young Glinda hesitated. And she missed her chance to fly with Alphaba. But she doesn't just write off her friend and completely joins the dark side either. So not no, not villainess ....though that would make a good story too.
She didnt say it was only good vs evil, in fact she said almost the opposite of that. I think you read 2/3 of the series and have an huge ego. She analyzed it pretty well and said multiple times it isnt just one bad person against one good person
@halalola432 1. people who result to insults while analyzing the concept of a book, have no place in the discussion. Move out. 2. I already said I never finished the 3rd book. So if you're gonna act like you eat, then you're eating air. 3rd. I already pointed out that her analysis is a good one, especially when it fits the real concept behind the growth of the main character. As for the rest of what you're completely out of touch with, I'm not even gonna bother. My ego is too big to give a
5 mins in. I liked that you mentioned that it's not black and white couse I felt it was a lil reductive to say the point of the show was to say hey evil can come in pink too tehee. It removes a lot of the nuance. And I am also glad you defined what you meant by the villain of the story. That helped me see your point more clearly. Best!
For someone who didn’t watch the wizard of oz, I was quite confused watching wicked because all the interviews with Ariana and Cynthia always portrayed Wicked as a story about friendship and when I watched it, I saw anything but that. This review is consistent with what I actually thought. Glenda wasn’t nice, Elphaba just didn’t have friends
Wow. Great take. I always viewed the title 'wicked' as a description of the wizard, Madame Morrible and their society but not Glinda. Now I'm pretty sure that the intention of that title was to describe Glinda as the real wicked witch :O When I first listened to the musical I didn't like Glinda and thought she was selfish and annoying but I grew to love her since I liked her relationship with Elphaba. I even felt bad that... SPOILERS... in the end, Glinda is left alone and to believe that Elphaba is dead. But with this new take on Glinda, I think that was just her punishment; to live knowing that she never did enough to save her friend. Awesome video! :D
It is her punishment tho. The fact that elphaba and fiyero got to run away and live their best life, meanwhile glinda has to be this "good witch" and got pushed around by the government. Yea i think she deserves it
It's probably like racists would call black women ugly but we all know many of them look gorgeous af. So I think just by being green she was automatically seen as ugly by most people there.
I know not much about Wicked, but I was definitely fuming against Glinda when I was watching the movie. So now that I watched this video, I'm feeling like I'm not crazy for thinking the same as you. But I am so upset that their characters do not match with how people made them seem as an outsider to I guess the Wicked fandom. I wish they could really fit their role, either becoming truly wicked or good at some point because I am just so devastated for my girl Elphaba. Like she was dogged on from the beginning to the end and what you said about her in the second act is kind of killing me. Justice for Elphaba.
13:36 Yk what in part 1 i COMPLETELY agree! As much as I like Galinda, she was NOT a good person in act I. Like, at all. her arc is only just beginning and act II is when she gets 90% of her growth. Defying gravity was literally step 1 for her.
Glinda in Wicked is an annoying, immature narcissist. Glinda in the Wizard of Oz is a truly cunning and mad villain, given that she exploits her looks and reputation to carry out the ultimate power grab in Oz...with Dorothy as an unwitting mercenary.
I’ve only seen the movie and she looked kinda naive to me, not necessarily evil. Maybe she truly believed the wizard and Madame were trying to change things for good. Since she was obsessed with popularity she knew everyone would hate her if she joined Elphie, but she was willing to.
Glinda is singing about herself in "No One Mourns the Wicked". She knowingly then becomes part of the Ozian Propaganda machine despite knowing a.) The Wizard is a Fraud b.) The Wizard and Morrible plan to spy on the citizens of Oz c.) The Wizard is willing to do horrible things to achieve his goals She is one of the antagonists
I think the only disagreement for me is saying she's "THE villain" Like does she take villainOUS actions, especially in part 2? Definitely. Is she A villain? You could make a good argument for that. Is she THE villain, the one whose antagonistic intentions are the main drive of the plot against the protagonist? Probably not, or at least still not as much as the Wizard, imo Ive still always viewed her as at the very least having extremely compromised morals (not a "good" person, whatever that metric is supposed to measure) and basically agree on everything else, and i find it very confusing if/that people irl give Elphaba more shit (for ????), like the entire point of the story just defied gravity right over their heads???
I feel like people don’t realise what happened in the story: Glinda let her friend basically get lynched and continue to call her wicked after her death. And you’re defending that? Do you hear how that sounds?
I completely agree with you even in the beginning when she was telling the story of elphaba when that one girl when she said, is it true that you were her friend she said yeah and then when everybody was like oh shocked that she said yes she redacted that and was like oh well, I mean that we crossed paths from that moment I knew she was fake
I've only read the book so with a grain of salt I agree that Glinda is a villian, but she's not the only one. Society in that world is also not so great. Galinda is one of those people who wants to be friends with and liked by everyone because she is terrified of being disliked. Those people are not your friend typically since they will do things that hurt you if it means someone will like them or praise them. But yes, the main point of the story, even the book, is partially about superficial people (the book even dips into some "racism") and how horrible society can be if you are different. I'm glad you posted this because I have not seen the movie or musical because I was under the impression that they heavily softened Glinda. It doesn't sound like they heavily softened to her, but it looks like they gave her an arc to try and save her at the end and like she is also a victim of society just because she is pretty. The book does not give her this arc and it feels like some very pretty people were offended and tried to make themselves victims in the adaptation of this. LOL
As a Wicked fan since time immemorial, that's exactly the point. Wicked is a subtle commentary on society. Disappointed on how long it took yall to realize. She starts out already being a narcissist if that wasnt obvious already...
THANK YOU FOR THIS !!!! i am an arianator but i watched every stage version on youtube before seeing it because i was eager and so much of this went over my head. and i think this is a testament to how great of a villian she is and how beautifully this story is written. i wanted to argue and say that glinda is not THE villian but one of the villians and she's not a terrible, awful, horrible person, she's JUST a lil selfish, but u made me realize the extent of her selfishness and exactly how harmful it is. also u made me realize that the only reason i wanted to defend her at all is because she's so likeable as she's written and performed so perfectly and accurately. and i'm glad that u acknowledged that u don't believe in concrete definitions because i think it fails to acknowledge her character arc/change of heart. i'm also glad that u acknowledged that because that's another reason i wanted to defend her so bad. she's not TOTALLY bad and i think that's the way u made it sound kinda.
She isn't a villain, In the original story I think they made it more clear that Glinda wanted to change the system from the inside while Elphaba wanted to entirely be away from the system
@@wellhellothere-v1hbut still applies that in the film and the play Glinda is a villain after all wicked is only based on the books is not a screen adaptation. Wicked took snippets of the books but at the end is its own story. So yes in the books I bet Glinda is the good one but for wicked the creator decided to switch things up and it’s valid. Can be confusing but let’s have clear Wicked is not Oz it’s just kind of based on it.
@@sarizonana Well, in the play Glinda vows to be a good ruler for the people of Oz by the end so there is that. The fact that Glinda is successful when Elphaba isn't is another thing. the books are totally different and a can of worms I don't want to open. I don't like the books very much
@@tajmalik1748 glinda isn't the villain for being self absorbed because she's also incredibly empathetic and generous. The SECOND the secured the political power to do so she immediately arrested and deported the individuals responsible for the systemic oppression of animals
It’s so obvious she’s the villain. She is actually Elphaba’s Frenemies. She became friends with her to be in the program, she went to emerald city with her to meet the wizard. She was Elphaba’s friend out of convenience. She was using her the whole time
The whole point of the story is there are no "wicked" people. Her and Elphaba are foils, Glinda is a poltician who puts efficency over morality. Elphaba is a radical who puts personal convictions over her cause. Glinda betrays her friend to stay with the wizard and advance her own political career at the expense of the animals yeah its not the moral thing to do but what if Glinda hadn't stayed? she could barely fight off 1 palace guard you expect her to be a fugitive? She doesn't have op magic like elphie to defend herself. what about her family, they don't have political positions to protect them like Elphaba's family. She could help maybe a few dozen animals escape before getting herself and Elphie captured and crucified to death like Fiyero was for helping the enemy. And then the wizard would still be in power and nothing would have changed. But by staying shes able to do what she does best, politics. She uses the wizards own propoganda against him by building a public image replacing him as the figurehead of Oz, and then when she overthrows him shes able to make actual governmental changes to actually help the animals.
I actually feel ya. I was just talking about this topic a few weeks back in school about how society forces one and many to fit into social roles and norms, even though they're bad AF.
13:42-14:52 Speak on it! It is crazy in media how the pretty and popular character always gets a pass for bad behavior just because they fun to watch. It's okay to like a problematic character but instead of just saying "I like her/him even thought they are problematic or did something bad" people go out of their way to make them the victim while tearing down everyone else or make excuses for their actions.
I love your explanation… on the other hand, I feel so bad for Dorthy. All this drama is happening in Oz and she landed in the middle of it. She’s just a sweet kid that just wants to get home :(
It’s like her friendship with elphaba ends up being real. She really likes her but wants a relaxed easy cute friendship. She’s never had to have depth. I feel she is sad about her death in the movie and maybe feels a little guilty but she never did anything to fix anything so she doesn’t feel genuine responsibility for anything. She just feels sad.
I read the book and definitely thought it was the Wizard and Madame Morrible who were the bad guys. Galinda was just a bit clueless. I wouldn't say she was exactly likeable or lovable at all. Mostly I didn't spend much time thinking about her until the latter books. It's also not so easy to erase the harm that evil does in the books, much like in real life, so it's more of a generational struggle with true heroics few and far between and often seemingly futile. I suppose, upon reflection, that a lot of what was done to the Animals to make them lose their voices was also done to Glinda in a way as she was conditioned by society to be what she was and only slowly was able to grow out of it.
Ok do you want me to explain what Glinda does in the other books and how she helps get people murdered or do you want to make her a good person out of that to. Wake up. Glinda is not a good person.
@@cashaetaylor7466 The books are not very well written but I guess you need to tell me What did Elpahaba ever do for the said animals? And why did she decide to f*ck Glinda's fiance which caused a lot of drama? Answer this and I'll answer you about Glinda being stupid enough not to see her chances of freeing the animals
@wellhellothere-v1h Elphaba never fucked Glindas fiance. Glinda engaged and married an older financier. Fiyero was already married by the time he arrives at Shiz. He doesn't have an affair with Elphaba until they're adults in Oz. Tell me you haven't read the book without telling me.
Saying Glinda is the villain is literally rejecting her writing of the character 😭 we are talking about the musical and movie not the book, we all know the book is different, she might’ve been a villain there but in the musical and movie is not. She can be called anti hero though
These people call her a villain based on the basis that Elphaba is a hero without realizing how useless Elphaba actually is. I mean for all the talking Elphaba does, the most political thing she ever does is sleeping with Viero
Yes! I have always felt like both Elphaba and Glinda are antiheroes. There is sooooo much grey, and I like that. It shows humanity. Especially when female characters are so often written as either good or evil, and rarely with nuance. Crazy Ex Girlfriend is another piece with really nuanced female characters who make some... very questionable decisions, lol. Can't wait for Part 2 🩷💚
Glinda fits the dictionary definition of villian more than anti hero. The dictionary defines anti hero as a central character in a story, movie, or drama who lacks conventional heroic attributes. Villian is a character whose evil actions or motives are important to the plot. Glinda is, by definition, the villian. But clearly by fans, she is somehow not. I prefer the dictionary definition though.
I think it’s so important to catch Glinda’s line in “no one mounrns the wicked” that galinda is born wicked (born beautiful, into a shallow family, with the natural affliction to for wickedness) and Elphaba has wickedness thrust upon her.
When people say wicked discourse all I can think about is "SHE WORE A CROWN AND CAME DOWN IN A BUBBLE, DOUG. GROW UP."
AND WHAT WAS HER SISTER??
@@meredithnovacoa princess! c'mon man
Top tier comment
@@meredithnovaco Ariana Grande IS also a villain in real life for dating married men but her fans let her get away with it because she looks innocent. How fitting. I love this video
@@suzygirl1843 I just chose not to care about the personal life of a pop star whose music I enjoy *shrug* that's pretty parasocial of you.
The opening number, as a long-time fan of the musical, made me realize why Glinda didn’t go: she knows she couldn’t deal with being treated like an outcast, not by that many people. And as someone who has been treated like an outcast, that is difficult to stomach.
Y’all are so dramatic lol, you’re not literally living in exile while being hunted by an entire kingdom
@alexbennet4195
A person can still experience being ganged up on at school, at work, at home, or in all those spaces. It makes the story relatable
@@alexbennet4195neither was elphaba before act two. She still felt like an outcast.
@@1amSamthat’s what they were referring to
@@alexbennet4195yeah good thing the musical and movie are only written to be understood and related to by people who have green skin and have been hunted down by a Wizard in a land with talking animals.
I think another reason people don't see Galinda as the villain is becayse shes a reflection of most people in society. Out for themselves, believes they're good but doesn't put in the hard work. It should hopefully be a wake up call for all of us
It is definitely a wake up call for me and hopefully i'll do better from now on
It's not a wake-up call at all, unfortunately. It seems the major takeaway for most people is "everyone can be good and evil" which doesn't inspire them to self reflect at ALL.
oh my god you took the words out of my mouth?? i saw so many people on twitter defending her and being like 'oh who never did (insert questionable behavior)?' and thats when i understood so many people will never see galinda as the villain bc they see themselves in her, they see their excuses in her, they see their own motivations and selfishness in her and thats one hell of a tough pill to swallow
the term "villain" is a literary device. throwing glinda into the "villain box" is lazy analysis. we are all aware that most of her decisions are stupid and selfish. but, her character's role in the story does not function as a villain.
See I disagree. I feel this video shows how she works as a villain in the story through her dynamics but comes out the end a redeemed (or in active redemption) for her actions.
Ik this is a crazy thing to say, but in a way, Glinda is kind of like Coriolanus Snow 😭 she's exposed to all of these different people, and is given so many opportunities to do good and break out of the oppressive and toxic environments that make up her world...yet she never does so out of cowardace and self interest
This is a READ. Excellent analysis.
Exactly I have never seen this play or read the book and I clocked that right away. The ones who let it happen out of fear and wanting to stay the corse because she is afraid of how it will look, are just as bad as the people pulling the strings.
I believe Glinda was trying to help from the inside.
Also why are y'all acting like Elphaba in the show did anything special while blaming Glinda? Have y'all watched part 2 of the musical?
@@iammemys2213 glinda in act 2 is never shown to lift a FINGER to help the animals right up until the very end, and that's only after elphaba essentially forces glinda to promise 😭 during her time as an ozian elite, glinda let the wizard continue his tyranny over the animals and let madame morrible spread the twisted propaganda against elphaba, and even reprimands fiyero for deigning to show solidarity with elphaba. Never does Glinda try to dismantle the system from the inside. Glinda stays complacent in the mistreatment of elphaba and of the animals, and never goes through any true character growth until the very end, where she pledges to be a better leader of oz; but again, that happens at the END. the majority of the narrative sees glinda act as a self interested, virtue signaling coward and suck up. Glinda only sometimes "feels bad" about what's going on in oz, and never takes any true action, unlike elphaba, who fights the regime and actively supports the animals
omg I was just thinking about that I agree
I think the whole point of this whole story is that the whole idea of good/bad is not as simple or white and black as people want it to be.
Yea everyone has good & bad aspects
That's one theme yes, but there are more that reinforce the whole idea which is that not only is good and evil not black and white, but the masses can buy into any framing through propaganda, symbolism, and abuse of power all to maintain the status quo.
yes but also there's this theme of looks can be decieving, people tend to associate beauty with goodness and ugliness with evil, when in reality your looks do not define your character or morals, in fact it is often the most good looking/charismatic people that do the most evil and Glinda in particular has a very wicked heart in the beggining and throughout the story, it's her relationship with Elphaba that pushes her to try to better, after the song For Good which at the very end, before all that she's the bad one, whereas Elphaba has a true loving, empathetic heart but she is treated like trash because of her looks
@@toria28 Absolutely not. Not everyone has those aspects so.. stop generalizing. 🤨
I'm sorry, but there is NOTHING good about taking away the freedom and the ability to speak from living and conscious beings. There is no "both sides" in bigotry, abuse, and oppression.
Galinda's manipulation of Boq during "Dancing Through Life" is a masterclass in her character. When he says he'll be waiting all night to dance with her, she doesn't dress him down like a "mean girl." She wants to be universally liked, even by the dorks and dweebs. The only person she openly insults is Elphaba because she's "a real good enemy" (in the Wizard's words) who wins her the entire school's sympathy.
Instead, she pretends to validate Boq's "kindness" (knowing they're actually both selfish in pursuing who they want) and redirects his attention to the most "tragic" person in the room. She doesn't care that it's Nessa (and probably doesn't even register that she's Elphaba's sister) - she's just a convenient pawn to pair him off with in the moment.
When Boq hesitates to ask Nessa, Galinda simply shrugs, *"Why not? She's right there."* And why wouldn't she say that? Anyone who assumes Galinda is good will interpret that with a "Seize the moment!" gusto, not as "Get out of my face, creep!"
What's really fascinating is how Galinda maintains her facade by lying *as little as possible.* It's TRUE that it would be KINDER to ask out a less-popular girl who uses a wheelchair so she doesn't feel left out instead of chasing the school's resident Stereotypical Barbie. She knows that every boy with a crush on her will do **anything** for her. And Boq is a "hero" of sorts to Galinda - but only by leaving her alone for a girl in his "league" and letting her feel like a virtuous matchmaker who gives every "beautiful" girl a date.
This is also one of the few times Galinda's dialogue doesn't center herself, as she carefully avoids stating any interest in Boq.
She doesn't lie outright and say, "I'd love if you did that!"
She reflects his obvious crush back at him asking, "You'd do that for me?"
And the best part is she pats Boq's hanky back into his vest, clearly rejecting him, but with the air of wishing him luck.
It's the same energy as, "I feel like **strangers** are just people I haven't met yet." She's dropping a banal, vapid statement that's impossible to disagree with and giving it a wistful emphasis that makes it sound like life-changing wisdom. Fantastic how Ariana passive-aggressively lingered on "strangers" in her delivery. Galinda made it clear she has no interest in getting to know Boq better while giving him hope he might eventually.
Yes! Just started reading the book and there’s no many more examples of her doing this there. Her manipulation of boc goes so much deeper there. She always rejects him but not outright and compliments him saying he is sortve “cute” and endearing to string him along so he still likes her. Book Glinda made musical Glinda look like a saint.
charisma gets people so far in life, no matter what their intentions are. you are completely right.
Exactly, like this is why certain serial killers didn’t get caught for a long time… because they were charming (like YES they’re charming, that’s how they manipulate people!!)
It's all about popular
@@matheus090401popular its all about popular ~
Glinda is a villain just like Ariana herself :D she is basically playing herself , lol :D no "good" person is going to steal someones husband while they were literally just having a baby...and overall if you look Arianas past...I cant say anything nice about her ...oh 1 thing, she is pretty thats it
@@HK-gm8peumm
The mirroring lyrics in Defying Gravity “I hope you're happy how you've hurt your cause forever
I hope you think you're clever” and “I hope you're happy, too
I hope you're proud how you would grovel in submission
To feed your own ambition”
Glinda is harping on Elphaba choosing what’s right over choosing to do what would better her image in the public eye.
While Elphaba is prodding at her ability to know what is right and choose to ignore it in order to help herself.
A verse later they go back and forth “You can still be with the wizard, What you've worked and waited for, You can have all you ever wanted
(I know) But I don't want it, No, I can't want it anymore”
It’s literally Glinda saying you can’t give up your dream to do this, while Elphaba is saying she can’t take something for herself at the expense of others; needless to say this is all we have seen Glinda do up until this point.
What if Glinda thought the “cause” in that line was the animal rights? What if Glinda thinks if elphaba apologizes and works things out with the Wizard, that she will get animal rights? But of course Elphaba knows it doesn’t work that way. Kinda changes things.
@@LCTmusic683 Elphaba could gain the Wizard's trust and pull an Operation Valkyrie later. She repeatedly chose her own moral purity over doing things that actually help people.
@@karilynn9711 No way. At this point in time, the Wizard knew Elphaba could read the Grimmerie with ease, so do you seriously think he wouldn’t force her to perform more spells that would tighten his grip over Oz and further enslave the animals, if she were to join him?
In order to feign loyalty to the Wizard, she’d have to actively go against her cause for who knows how long and do more damage, with no guarantee a successful coup could even come out of it since everyone was loyal to the wizard to a fault.
She made the right choice becoming an oppositional force, and we shouldn’t place blame on radical minorities for becoming radicalized by the systems they’re subjected to rather than trying to infiltrate those systems from within, since that’s not always a reasonable expectation.
I've always interpreted "your cause" to mean animal rights
@@karilynn9711The wizard doesn’t have any actual power he only has public approval. The only way Elphaba could still help the animals while working with the wizard is if he allowed her to use his position to free the animals despite already using all his other resources to do the exact opposite. He likely wouldn’t have done that so her only real choice is to do it on her own. Glinda could still change public opinion with her social power but she would have to be willing to go against the wizard to do it which …
My sister and I were just talking about this!!! We discussed how in the wizard of oz Glinda gives the red shoes to Dorothy and eggs her on not to give them back to the wicked witch. The wicked witch is looking for her dead sister’s shoes, she’s in mourning and Glindas like “these shoes? On the murders feet?” 😂
Asks*
@ what’s with this comment? Are you trying to ask a question? I’m not sure what to make of it.
You wrote “Glinda gives the red shoes to Dorothy and eggs her on not to give them back to the wicked witch” I think the person hasn’t heard of the phrase “eggs on” and thought you meant Glinda asks Dorothy not to return the shoes.
@ oh, okay. I was confused. Thank you for clearing that up. I forget sometimes that what I consider a common thing isn’t for others.
@@clauaome25 sybau
Glinda in literally the first song of the musical:
“I have done terrible things, literally super evil things, and because of that I have lost everyone I love and I completely deserve it.”
Everyone: “She can’t possibly be bad, really. I mean.. come on. She’s nice sometimes 🥰”
I've seen people get defensive about this one 😂
"How does that song mean she's guilty? 😤"
It's the first song in the show, before the unfolding of events that shed light on the meaning of the lyrics, so fair that you'd not immediately see glinda's singing about her own guilt. But all it takes is to listen to the lyrics again (which you'd think people must be doing whilst literally revisiting the song on TH-cam, right?) to understand the tone of the first scene better.
"Goodness knows the Wicked's lives are lonely. Goodness knows the wicked die alone. It just shows, when you're wicked you're left only on your own."
Hmm, I wonder, who could she be talking about? Who is alone after making a lot of destructive choices?
Lot's of hard-core "wicked fans" just absolutely not getting it. Makes me wonder what about the show they like so much.
I've also seen "wicked fans" struggling to draw parallels between the wizard of oz and the government. The whole theme of government corruption somehow goes straight over their heads?? But I won't harp on.
Gilda's pretty privileged works and her charisma
The whole point of the story is there are no "wicked" people. Her and Elphaba are foils, Glinda is a poltician who puts efficency over morality. Elphaba is a radical who puts personal convictions over her cause. Glinda betrays her friend to stay with the wizard and advance her own political career at the expense of the animals yeah its not the moral thing to do but what if Glinda hadn't stayed? she could barely fight off 1 palace guard you expect her to be a fugitive? She doesn't have op magic like elphie to defend herself. what about her family, they don't have political positions to protect them like Elphaba's family. She could help maybe a few dozen animals escape before getting herself and Elphie captured and crucified to death like Fiyero was for helping the enemy. And then the wizard would still be in power and nothing would have changed. But by staying shes able to do what she does best, politics. She uses the wizards own propoganda against him by building a public image replacing him as the figurehead of Oz, and then when she overthrows him shes able to make actual governmental changes to actually help the animals.
@@oflynn_flowerchild1412 Quickly, who put in the work to even make it possible for Glinda to overthrow Oz in the first place... starts with the letter E ends with A 😂
@@SapphireSkiesYTI would argue that it was both of them equally. Elphaba empowers and inspires her, but she herself tells Glinda in Act 2, “I’m limited. Just look at me. I’m limited. And look at you, you can do all I couldn’t do, Glinda.” Intentional or not, Glinda ends up being in a position to overthrow the system from the inside because of her choices to acquiesce, which Elphaba would never have been able to do because of her choice to radicalize.
There are so many parallels to race in America and how the majority gets the benefit of the doubt while the minority isn’t so lucky. It’s glaring actually. I know talking about race makes some uncomfortable but as a black woman I see Glinda clearly. An ally to Elphaba and the Animals until it didn’t benefit her anymore. If you’re not helping YOU’RE IN THE WAY!
Race isn't the only form of systemic "majority/minority" inequality - there isn't a human alive who hasn't felt it at some point. It's universal
@@kumada84 No one said that it was. So why did you feel the need to deflect from her point and minimize her experience?
This^^^
glinda is a liberal for sure 😭
@@4u2cre8maybe because of identity politics
She is the epitome of “allyship” without doing the real work of what it is like to be an ally.
She was only willing to be a genuine friend of Elphaba only if it benefited her directly, and that’s the most evil part of all. The complacency in allowing your “friend’s” character, reputation, and image to be demonized to the extreme peak that causes her death. Then in turn to CELEBRATE her death knowing the purity of her heart all so you can remain in good optics for your own validation.
Glinda wasn’t ever a genuine friend. She faked it until she made it. She succeeded in giving the impression of being a genuine friend.
Just like majority of celebrities,especially those "gay allies"
Glenda is what we call a fake friend aka user....Glenda will use and abuse ppl with her charismatic behavior and her looks if you are more popular or have something she doesn't oh baby she will do her best to get close to you and take it from you or use you to get farther than you then your nothing to her. Pure evil she only stands for herself n play like she stands with you but when she gets what she wants baby she's out lol. Shes the energy drainer toxic soul
yes because risking her entire image by associating herself with the school joke in front of everybody while elphaba is publically laughed at is to her own direct benefit.
@@enriquevillalobos2084 Okay dude, we get it. You're terrible too.
I am side-eyeing anyone who defends Glinda but hates Nessarose
This!
Absolutely. It is depressingly hilarious that they cannot see their own disparate response to the characters is exactly what the musical is criticising. But part of their downplaying in Glinda's active (wicked) choices is because it implicates us all. Few are Madame Morrible or the Wizard, but many of us are Glindas, Boqs, and Nessaroses.
@@balanceis_keyGlinda is not on the same level as Nessarose. Nessarose is othered because of her disability by Glinda as well and too few able bodied people can't see that.
@@dirtygrubbygoblingirlis she a lesser villain? She represents the disadvantaged minority who doesn’t stand in solidarity with other disadvantaged minorities. She uses what privilege she does have to set herself apart from her own sister. Glinda retreats into the comfort of her immense privilege, but she doesn’t know any different. Nessarose does, and not once does she stand up for her sister. Now more nuance can be applied to real people. Like obviously the million/billionaire who hoards their wealth is worse than the racist white gay, but in Oz, Nessarose turns her back on the only person who has never infantilized her or taken away her agency in order to be Glinda’s charity case.
The whole point of the story is there are no "wicked" people. Her and Elphaba are foils, Glinda is a poltician who puts efficency over morality. Elphaba is a radical who puts personal convictions over her cause. Glinda betrays her friend to stay with the wizard and advance her own political career at the expense of the animals yeah its not the moral thing to do but what if Glinda hadn't stayed? she could barely fight off 1 palace guard you expect her to be a fugitive? She doesn't have op magic like elphie to defend herself. what about her family, they don't have political positions to protect them like Elphaba's family. She could help maybe a few dozen animals escape before getting herself and Elphie captured and crucified to death like Fiyero was for helping the enemy. And then the wizard would still be in power and nothing would have changed. But by staying shes able to do what she does best, politics. She uses the wizards own propoganda against him by building a public image replacing him as the figurehead of Oz, and then when she overthrows him shes able to make actual governmental changes to actually help the animals.
People object to the labelling of her as a “villain” because that invokes malice and ill intent.
Glinda is weak, self centred and cowardly for the most part but is not an evil person. Her Inaction speaks volumes so antagonist sure? Unlikeable? Yep. Villainous? No.
Also good to remember and mention that it’s Glinda that gets rid of the wizard in the end when elphaba is the one content with fleeing Oz with her boyfriend despite her mission not being completed and the thousands of Oz Animals still being mistreated.
It’s silly to paint either of them as Good or Evil when the whole point of the movie and performance is there are two sides to every story and nothing is that simple
THIS!
The part with Elphaba leaving at the end is such a good point! I think that Elphaba really changed after No Good Deed, when she dropped her altruistic attempts because… they simply weren’t working for her. Her life had gone worse since she chose to help the animals, but all that may lead to Glinda finally doing the good because she is actually in a position of power to do it
Okay, so if Elphaba was popular because she was the greatest sorcery student in a generation and doing Glinda-esque things with her magic to magic-less Glinda, would that be okay to you?
did you even watch the video? lol
I'll say that I much prefer to think of Glinda as an antagonist, as opposed to a villain (never mind THE villain).
That's interesting. Part of the trouble with interpreting Glinda as the villain is her portrayal as a deuteragonist. Half the play is from her perspective, and the iconic poster markets the two witches as counterparts, a pair.
It largely depends on how you interpret the story and how you define "villain". Glinda definitely acts villainous, but her role as Elphaba's actual antagonist is inconsistent, and is mixed with moments of flawed friendship and sisterhood - and this is the source of the drama.
In the wider context of the story, Madam Morrible and Oz working to exploit Elphaba and silence the animals are much clearer antagonists than Glinda. It's only through them that Glinda advances past schoolyard rivalry and truly damages Elphaba. This feels like a betrayal because Glinda's arc is more complex than the villains she enables. She starts the story as a dumb kid and ends it by helping Elphaba, and to me that conflicts with calling her "the" villain.
I wholeheartedly agree with this. Glinda did some truly wicked things in her past, but during act 2 she never wanted to hurt Elphie or Nessa. When she found out Elphie and Fiyero were flirting behind her back, she was hurt and gave Madam Morrible the idea to start a rumor, which ultimately lead to Nessa's death, but she never intended for it to go that far. We even see her mourn Nessa, even though we never saw her care for Nessa before. She helps Elphie flee again and again throughout the story despite being a public figure and working for the Wizard. The blue dress in act 2 is to visually symbolize to the audience her character growth, and judging by the teaser photos of Ari I've seen, we'll be getting a gorgeous blue gown in part 2.
While Glinda isn't a perfect "good witch" she definitely isn't a villain. I thought all Wicked fans understood by now that the point of the musical was that good and bad is never black and white and that Elphaba and Glinda's actions in the musical represent that, but it seems this new movie is causing some unnecessary discourse.
Glinda's the villain to the real hero, Elphaba.
@@kodicore she selfish
@@IronheartvsMiles interesting how you bring no actual facts or arguments to the table.
glinda is villainized because glinda blames herself for everything that happens in the story. wicked is told by glinda yeah
Elphaba: Animal Lives Matter!
Glinda: Um actually, ALL lives matter, but good for you
Glinda : her life matters 😂 not everyone 💯
Glinda : Imma try helping from the inside :)
OMG she is just THAT sort of person.
@cashaetaylor7466 fiyero's life matters lol😊
@@cashaetaylor7466
Galinda: All lives matter, but not as much as mine
Literally! I cover politics pretty extensively and as soon as I saw this story I spotted the neoliberal centrist vs the abolitionist plot point immediately. And yet so many people are like Glinda is “complicated” 🤣 Glinda isn’t the only villain in this story, but she isn’t absolved from being one either. It’s plain as day that too many people see themselves in Glindas character and that’s why they defend her. You nailed it with this one.
Ooohhh I literally said this in my comment. People see themselves in Glinda but obviously villian has a negative connotation so they refuse to see her as such since they don't want to see themselves as a villian either.
THIS!
yessss and also with cynthia being casted, it adds another layer of context of misogynoir and antiblack racism i feel like, and to see HOW MUCH ariana has been centered in the marketing of the movie and kind of the movie as a whole, has been frustrating to say the least. when you look up the cast, the first person to pop up is ariana as galinda and cynthia as elphaba next. however when you look up the original wicked broadway cast, it almost always lists idina/elphaba first, and kristin/galinda next. BECAUSE ELPHABA IS THE MAIN CHARACTER AND SHOULD BE LISTED FIRST. maybe im reaching but it just jumps out in my face. also should point out that most other website lists cynthia first but google seems to not. also reading articles comparing who was the better elphaba between idina and cynthia and that also is a very messy area. omg edit again but she mentions this in the video 😭 i didn’t see cuz i commented before finishing the video 😨
Yupppp
I do admit: while I resent Galinda for being so self-absorbed and plastic while having everything, I do pity Elpheba for her green skin and the torment she endures from the world for it.
From the second act “there are very few at ease with moral ambiguities and so we act as if they don’t exist”. This is the core of the story - neither of them is all good or all bad - there are ambiguities in both of them - the whole concept of good guys and bad guys misses the point of the piece IMO
Exactly
I agree with this the most
I feel like this response is a cop-out of sorts. Whether or not Glinda shows capacity for empathy, growth or regret doesn't change what she ultimately does. We understand that her character has nuance and complexities that inform her choices, but it doesn't change what those choices are. To read Glinda, especially in Act 1, as just morally ambiguous funnily buys into one of the major critiques the musical has. Perception over reality.
@@balanceis_key Glinda is a poltician who puts efficency over morality. Glinda betrays her friend to stay with the wizard and advance her own political career at the expense of the animals yeah its not the moral thing to do but what if Glinda hadn't stayed? she could barely fight off 1 palace guard you expect her to be a fugitive? She doesn't have op magic like elphie to defend herself. what about her family, they don't have political positions to protect them like Elphaba's family. She could help maybe a few dozen animals escape before getting herself and Elphie captured and crucified to death like Fiyero was for helping the enemy. And then the wizard would still be in power and nothing would have changed. But by staying shes able to do what she does best, politics. She uses the wizards own propoganda against him by building a public image replacing him as the figurehead of Oz, and then when she overthrows him shes able to make actual governmental changes to actually help the animals.
@@oflynn_flowerchild1412 I love that this conversation is being prompted, but I think you can admit what you are saying doesn't discount anything I've said about her character.
Nothing about Glinda (by the time Act 1 finishes) indicates she independently cares about the Animals to assume she's taking a measured approach to help. We see her actively contribute to the hostility towards them, and her previous treatment towards Elphaba is really just an extension of this hostility. There's a reason when she goes after Elphaba, it isn't to tell her to disrupt the system from within, but to accept it. There's a reason she calls it "her cause" and not theirs. Because it isn't. Up until this point she only gives empty gestures, and *only* if it provides her social power or is within it. With that, I completely understand why she doesn't go with Elphaba -- but it isn't because she has another plan. She just wants Elphaba to stop with hers.
The "good" Glinda we see by the end of Wicked only exists because of characters of Elphaba and Fiyero forcing her to contend with her internal politics, and not because she was working in tandem (intended) with them. I think we have to appreciate what the text provides about Glinda, because it really doesn't hold its punches. She *is* complicit, until she *cannot* be. Even then, she is using the same tools/tactics that brought the devastation to the Animals in the first place. That's what makes the musical so tragic.
She isn’t the "villain" of the story,but she is the wicked one,and she acknowledges this in no one mourns the wicked by saying that her awful behavior made everyone to leave her and she'll die alone.
Unlike the wizard and madam morrible,she doesn't want the animals to suffer but does absolutely nothing about it and that's her biggest crime; I agree with your thoughts as a fellow glinda hater but having an antagonistic role doesn’t necessarily mean villain yk?
🧡🧡love this
Galinda is the WICKED one: Villain.
What did Elphaba do that was WICKED chat? I'll wait.
@@cashaetaylor7466 steal fiyero from glinda... thats messed up
I never thought of the song that way that she’s referring to herself that’s an interesting concept
wicked…bad…villain…
Anybody else love Glinda as a villain/antagonist/perfomative ally/complicit neoliberal centrist/whatever you'd like to call her and find it....strange that there's suddenly this righteous debate around morally justifying simply loving her in the fandom?
She's self-absorbed, saccharine, calculating, and determined to be viewed as "good" in the eyes of others no matter the cost. In the political sense, she struggles to summon the noble courage to be revolutionary because, amongst other things, she has an intuitive understanding of power dyanmics and just how easy it is to snuff out rebellious opposition. She intends to be a key player and has made it her favorite past time to subdue any opposition to the illusion of her "goodness" through charm, wit, and glamour. So when she is faced with the greater looming threat of a systematic structure she can't outright overpower through sheer force like Elphaba, or charm into submission like she usually does, she silences whatever her true moral standings on the issue are and does what most people do: she plays the role she's asked to play for the benefit of doing what is best for herself. She embodies what it means to be a "character you love to hate." All the while, there's a doubtful confidence & ambitious self-assuredness coupled with grief that follows her through some tough moments where we see her humanity, not in a way that vindicates her actions at all but evaluates the prompt of the entire show so poignantly: are people born wicked, or do they have wickedness thrust upon them? This is a theme we, the audience, are asked to honestly examine in both Elphaba and Glinda, equally.
She's really not all that nice or good, and personally, I don't see a need to justify it 😂 She's more like most of us than most of us are willing to admit. It's perfectly messed up in the best way possible.
this video is explicitly talking about defenders, not enjoyers
Omfg thank you, someone here actually understands musical galinda! Like in the video, the reason people have so much trouble justifying liking her is because of the optics she is written to have as a character, and the marketing around both the musical and the movie. Distilling Galinda’s character to the Popular song and her ditzy acting is basically exactly what the character herself would want you to think! That, and Ariana Grande’s idea of method acting - changing her entire public persona to act as if she IS Galinda, but without all those silly politics - has made it more difficult for audiences to see the true essence of Galinda’s role in the story. I think even Ariana herself isn’t critical of her own character, when she’s questioned in interviews she says that Galinda is a good person and Elphaba and Galinda are both just doing their best.
I feel like people who defend Glinda has probably has her personality characteristics because no one in the right mind support Glinda she is based Regina George from Mean girl.
@@Kam_i_She always got the type casted role,so I don't think she could do diverse or complex characters.
But this is just my opinion.
@Vineethajojo i completely respect that opinion. I feel people who are jumping to find 50 different ways to point out the flaws in her choices, with the added tone of moral superiority in claiming her as
"the villain" while paying no attention to nuances of her character, fail to see the unfortunate similarities in her behavior with their own in real life. But that is also my opinion!
No, it's people who've only seen Part 1 that could be forgiven for thinking Glinda is the villain. Absolutely wild take to have knowing the whole story where she literally takes down the wizard, continues Elphaba's mission of restoring rights for the animals, and has a heartfelt parting with Elphaba where they both acknowledge the positive influence they've had on each other.
Like her starting out shallow and self-absorbed and learning from Elphaba to become a better and more caring person is the central arc of the entire story! It doesn't work if she isn't unlikable at first but she learns from her mistakes! The whole point is that nobody is all good or all bad.
Right!
she only does one good thing and is evil most of the time
exactly! like, what are these people talking about? it’s actually driving me wild istg
YES EXACTLY!!
Notice how people treated Cynthia in comparison to Ariane and how it parallels Elpheba and Glenda
Which is so strange because we are talking about characters in a film, not the actual actresses
I disagree. Cynthia made a very bad choice and made herself look a "bad guy". Nobody manufactured it like the wizard did with Elphaba - she did it herself.
I agree, people have looked a blind eye at Spongebob guy LEAVING HIS WIFE AND A BABY…No shade at Ari…but then Cynthia got emotional and protective over a cherished as fuck role online and people were ridiculing her
@@LCTmusic683I mean is Cynthia better? She’s just like Ari in her homewrecker ways sleeping with Lena Waithe, a married woman, and breaking up a marriage.
@@LCTmusic683 I mean I've seen nothing but criticism of Ariana for the affair lol, maybe her fans have turned a blind eye? But crazy fanbases tend to do that
I feel so validated by this video. When I was discussing with my cousin, he defended Glinda by saying she is innocent and had good intent. But something just felt off. If she had good intent, she would have joined Elphaba, and she wouldn’t have defended the wizard. This is so poignant, that’s what happens in reality. We get fooled all the time
I'm writing my version of the Wizard of Oz where Batman beats up everyone.
Batnman vs Ozma: I am here for this!
Batman: The Dark Oz
Looking forward to it!
I also think this villain arc follows her in her songs like you said with Popular. Kristen Chenowith said something similar about Galinda and I think it’s even more evident in the movie, but her higher notes and showier songs are definitely to compensate for her poor intent and selfishness.
For example, in No One Mourns she is singing gut wrenching realizations as if she’s celebrating but really it’s tearing her apart. It’s operatic and incredible sounding, but you unless you focus on it you don’t notice the stark difference in lyrics and delivery. Same goes in For Good where her and Elphaba swap who sings what melodies. It’s the one time Galinda fully allows Elphaba to sing the range in which she (G) normally does. I think it shows her character realizing her mistakes and allowing Elphaba to have that moment to have an upper hand since Elphaba will allow Galinda to continue to live in the lies for her reputation. She knows how important it is to Galinda and that is the one moment they are allowing themselves to acknowledge the truth of what really happened the whole time
I loved your interpretation and reasoning and have been enjoying the Wicked content! keep going I’m eating it up lol
Burning a statue of her friend while singing and dancing around it despite knowing she’s a truly good person showed me that she was a villain.
Elphaba literally said "don't try to clear my name."
@@arielsteinsaltz1956she didn’t have to listen. She wanted to do that anyway, Elphaba saying that just gave Glinda an excuse
i agree glinda is kinda a bitch. but i think that’s the irony in the ENTIRE song of “no one mourns the wicked”, she’s singing how she has empathy for her and that she died alone and then kept side eyeing the munchkins singing horrible things about her. if we watched the same movie… you can see she was NOT a happy when she saw the statue and hesitantly burnt the statue down. anyway back to the irony of the song, they say no one mourns the wicked when SHE WAS mourning and grieving. i think in part 2 that’s her character development bc glindas problem right through part 1 is that she is a people pleaser and she went right through her life being perfect and loved. so I part 2, i think she clears elphaba’s name after she’s done telling the story of how they met.
… Do you not know the full story….?
@@growingupwithdisneyI mean when Elphaba tells her that, Glinda automatically says "No." Elphaba has to spend time convincing her to go along with her plan.
The same people who defend Glinda are probably the same people who call Dorothy a murderer.
You either die a hero, or live long enough to see yourself become a villain.
I’m just not buying that she’s *the* villain, this is very well thought out video and very interesting watch!!
She definitely is supposed to represent conformity, but from interviews with Stephen Schwartz, and the other people behind the musical the show is supposed to represent female friendship also as one of the big themes. The song For Good is quite literally impossible to interpret as anything other than two friends reconciling at the very end when they know they can’t see each other again, but still thanking each other for what they did to their lives. The main thesis of the show is basically that no one is what they seem, it’s encouraging you to think about how people are depicted. Glinda represents a person who does care, but is ultimately weak from her desire to be seen as good
In life, how many times have people been ugly to their friends? Its possible. It happens all the time. Friends slowly ghost each other, use each other for their access, or any number of things. It just means they aren't the same people they once were and that's normal. Which is why friendships change, grow, or end; much like any relationship.
@@alexisgarcia1344 Mostly correct, but the racial allegory fails to land because the Shizz students are already hyper-woke. It is inconceivable to believe that a progressive, multi-racial, cross-dressing, trans-inclusive, pan-gendered, pan-sexual student body would unanimously ostracize reject a new student because she is green. Make it make sense.
The point is that Glinda is the Wicked one all along
@SGP1963 🤭🤭 I heard 'it was Agatha all a long' 🤭🤭
Having a desire to be "seen" as good, does not equate to being good.
I think that the aesthetic of Galina's character is part of it, but I think another BIG part of why people think Galinda is not the villain is because people can see themselves in her character and cannot conceive how their hypothetical actions (or lived actions depending on the situation) would make THEM the villain. People can have a difficult time accepting flaws in their own character which could make it difficult to recognize those same traits in other people/fictional characters as bad.
the lack of nuance is crazy and everyone forgets how glinda is TELLING the whole story of wicked. glinda IS sharing the truth about elphaba despite elphaba telling her not to, because she realizes she loves her friend more than anything!!!
This was a really well thought out essay, but I don’t think that that’s the point of I think the point is there isn’t such a thing as someone who is purely one thing or the other that you can be both and that it’s not about your circumstances, but what you choose to do with them. Is Galinda self absorbed spineless and only concerned for herself? Yes absolutely no one can deflect that. Her motives throughout act one are entirely self absorbed but… do those traits alone make her the villain? I think there’s a way you can argue both sides here, and THATS the theme of the show. Some say she was naive self absorbed etc, some might say she maliciously made that suggestion in act 2 about putting nessa in danger which is probably true the ways I’ve seen it played. But then we have to wrestle with the question what matters more here: intent or impact? There’s no right or wrong answer here. Elphaba INTENDED to be a hero and take down the wizard when she rejected him but did she? No. She made an enemy of herself had an affair with her best friends fiancée, went on to use the flying monkeys as servants, kidnapped a girl and got herself killed/banished Glinda INTENDED to stay behind to protect her reputation. Did she? Yes and she also: caused the death of her best friends sister, got her fiancée turned into a scarecrow dismantled Oz’s power structure, was complicit in the wizards schemes etc. but THATS the point. Saying Glinda is the villain is saying elphaba is the hero. Elphabas motives WERE more morally correct and she may be a better person, but I don’t think that makes her the hero more than Glinda being a selfish spineless person makes her a villain. I think that’s the point they’re both just people trying to do the best that they can do to survive. No one is one thing
THANK YOU. This video frustrated me and you've articulated exactly why in a much more concise way than I could have.
Yes!
In a comment section of people discouraging black and white thinking, "if glinda is the villain, then elphaba is the hero, therefore, no!" is an interesting rebuttal to read.
I thought about Glinda alot lately haha and I think she is the perfect example of somebody that has fallen victim to a harmful society. Probably her whole life she's been working her ass off to be this perfect person and very much works the system to crawl up the ladder of success and glory. Elfaba on the contrary never even had the slightest chance of achieving that persona because whe is born green. She starts her life as an outsider and then kinda randomly gets catapulted to the top because of her magical gift. Yes elfaba totally deserves that and had to endure a lot of shit her whole life but in a way glinda had to work way harder to be recognised by the wizard than elfaba. and because of this i think it's much harder for glinda to make the decision to "throw it all away" like elfaba does. Elfaba never even had the chance to really fit in, she just never did, but glinda did and it's all she knows and kinda her life's work.
Wow I've been wrestling with trying to understand why Glinda declined going with Elphaba at the end, but this helps put her choice into perspective. Thanks!
Glinda didn't have to work hard. She was born into prestige. She was liked due to status. Elphaba literally had to work 3 x as hard due to her skin color. I think you have to have dealt with stereotypical insults to see the truth.
Elfaba was never catapulted to the top. She was used and manipulated then made the villain once they got what they wanted out of her.
@@madeinhisimage9277 In the books Glinda is from a middle class family shes vaguely descendant of some nobility but doesn't have any prestige. Thats why she works to build her public image, shes a social climber.
I've never read the book or saw the play. So after I saw the movie I thought to myself "why do people like glinda so much? Why do people always say are you an elphie or a glinda? How is glinda and elphie's friendship even a thing?" Glinda is not a good person and only befriends elphie bc she feels bad for her after elphie does something nice and bc she thinks elphie can do more nice things for her (aka take her to see the wizard and share her good fortune). I feel like it's not even a true friendship. I guess maybe she gets better in the second act, but seeing as how the story ends with everyone dying and glinda and the wizard winning (as evident in the wizard of oz) I don't see how it's possible for her to be redeemed. I am trying not to spoil too much of the second half for myself so I can see where the story goes. But I just don't understand how wicked is known for this amazing friendship when their friendship feels off to me. Is it just bc I haven't seen the second half? But also how dark is it that Glinda and the wizard win while everyone else dies. It gives a whole different perception on the wizard of oz.
The beauty of art is that its subjective! Without mentioning the musical or the movie, because I loved the book and never had a chance to see the musical. In the book it's very clear to me that the point is that each person has good and evil in them. It can be argued that the wicked witch also turns to have really negative traits even as using animals as slaves. Whatever she once stood for, she turned it negative. Point is both are good AND bad. Wicked also has maaaany plot holes to what's canon and it is supposed to be a redemption story for the wicked witch aside from the political view of the book.
Again both characters are complex. I always thought that even when i only knew the book.
It's impossible to say which one is the good or the bad since they both do good and bad things especially if you take the entire lore into account.
I don't think all she cares about is herself. I think based on her character she is very easily manipulated and ends believing everything and anything. She is so desperate for love and attention.
Elphaba is not the perfect character you describe either... Especially if we think outside of the wicked book
I think it's important to remember everyone is nuanced. Lets agree to disagree 💐
I guess im looking at the motivations - glindas motivation behind 90% of her decisions is her own benefit, while elphabas motivation is helping the animals. i almost feel like the point that elphaba “isn’t perfect” further proves my point… she never does anything nearly as bad as what glinda does but we judge her much more harshly. we will always give glinda the benefit of the doubt and assume she was manipulated, even if she was the major manipulator of especially this first movie. there’s truth to the nuance of trying to do good vs actually doing good, which is what elphabas arc is about and what the message of the song no good deed is, but ultimately glinda isn’t manipulated, she’s a manipulator! i think the comment i read worded it perfectly - we can acknowledge she has emotions and a character arc while still understanding that she was in the wrong for most of her actions in the show!
The Musical changes a lot, didn't really like the books either, and to me when Wicked has veered so far away from the books its just a mess. I think the film will do well without the general audiences keeping up with the story, and I am wondering if all these people showering the first film with praise will do the same for part 2.
@@meredithnovaco Her motivation is simple : she wants to help from inside the system in contrast to Elphaba. In the books both girls understand each other.
Also well, Elpahab is kinda useless and bad as well but that's a conversation for part two
@@wellhellothere-v1h yeah but it's not THAT simple. and i haven't read the book but i think the play does a great a job at applying the concept that everyone has the capacity to be both good and evil. the entire first act she wants one thing and that's to be great and powerful. when u look at her motivations for almost everything she does, it's in her own self interest. while that doesn't make her totally villainous, it drives the point home that everyone can be both good and evil
@@tajmalik1748 The word I would use for Glinda is not "selfish" but "spineless" specially if you've read the books and seen the play.
Glinda mostly does things out of presssure but also was actually intending to help the animals from the inside which even Elphaba understood.
Unfortunately these books are not very great so neither Elphaba nor Glinda do anything for the animals lol
What people seem to overlook is that the whole point of the show thematically is that there is not A villain. Sure, Morrible and the Wizard are as villanous as they come, and other characters like Glinda, Elphaba's dad, and Nessa are heavily antagonistic as well. But to me the point is that OZ, the whole world, is wrong. The munchkins are wrong because they've been fed lies and fear, Glinda is wrong for knowing better and going along with it for self preservation and ego reasons, all of them either play an active role in a corrupt society or are victims to it. Except Elphaba, because she was ostracized by said society, and is heavily empathetic to other marginalized groups as a result. It's a beautiful exploration of how those that are pushed out by society are sometimes the only ones able to look at the big picture and realize just how wrong the social norm is. And Glinda being complicit is what really drives the point home, she can be a fun, charming, charismatic and friendly person, but she's not willing to put her reputation on the line to defend others because honestly she doesn't care about others that much. And that's so, so real. In a world full of 'social media activists' who will change their bios and share infographics on real pressing world issues, but then not be willing to actually do anything else lest their image be damaged, it's way too real.
Finally! Someone says what I am thinking! I am actually a HUGE Ariana Grande stan, but I am also an English teacher and a staunch leftist progressive, and I understand that Wicked is the story of surface level beauty and goodness which masks grandiose narcissism versus the struggles of a person who was born with every strike against them and, as such, has spent enough time on the fringe of society to notice how awful it is. Elphaba was NOT born wicked; quite the contrary! Galinda/Glinda actually has no place being a good witch. Elphaba should have run Oz and then the animals would have maintained their rightful position and voices, Nessa would have been stopped before creating such damage, and the rest of Oz would have been able to live in harmony! But that’s my Bernie Sanders/AOC agenda lol.
I think my biggest problem with thinking of Glinda as a villain is because it heavily others the “Glinda” when imo the biggest Glinda in the world will always be ourselves. Let me see if I can explain what I mean. We’re the ones we’re most likely to make concessions for, and even though we may not do what Glinda did, many of us can and do take similar actions in the name of comfort and avoiding being ostracized. I don’t like people who say, “Glinda is a villain, Glinda is evil, I hate Glinda”, because I feel like we’re meant to empathize with Glinda, in the sense that we’re meant to use her as a warning sign and see a projection of ourselves in her. I don’t like seeing Glinda as the villain to be destroyed in the way of progress, because that heavily takes the reflection out of it and makes it way too black and white which as you said is the point of the show, and I feel like it’s an important point
99% of us are Galinda's. Fewer of us are Glidnda's, that will be put in positions of power and do things to harm (or to not impede the harm of) others.
Not many people are Elphaba's. We like to think we are. But we aren't.
In this household we stan the following:
- Elphaba
- Fiyero
- The animals
Doctor Dillamond is not just a goat, he is THE G.O.A.T and anyone who fucks with him (either directly or by being complicit) can go away
I FREAKING LOVE FIYERO, the fact that he leaves everything, his title, his wealth, and choose to go with elphaba because he knows that is the right thing to do. He doesn't care what other people think of him
I'm just glad that elphaba and fiyero got together in the end and got their happy ending in the musical.
@ilmanmufiydhaagustadia_1346 you're small minded, elphaba and fiyero accomplish nothing by the end of story, so how can they be the heroes or what they did right? While Glinda literally finally gets rid of the wizard on her own
Meredith, first time here, and I must say you are so articulate! I JUST posted my first time watching Wizard of Oz and I also picked up that she literally misdirects Dorothy to the Wizard knowing FULL WELL that he is powerless. I called her out and everyone in the comments was like, Wow bro so judgmental. Hahaha so great to hear you agree!
villains have a very specific role in any story. glinda isn’t a villain, she’s a just another grey character in this grey story. yes, i think she’s WRONG about most things, but that doesn’t make her a villain. i’ve seen the musical and ive read the book. just because she ISNT a villain does NOT mean she’s right. the whole point of the story is that good and evil are DECISIONS we make, which means we can’t label individuals as good or evil because they can always turn and either disappoint or surprise us. the story encourages people to think for themselves instead of labeling people as good or evil. like, come on man.
Agreed. Came off as a normal human being to me. Alot of people think people are black and white and dont respect human traits
But the CONTEXT of when she’s morally grey makes her a villain. 9/10 times she acts out of self interest and doesn’t care about the consequences until it either becomes life or death or if it would cause the people around her to see her as a villain. Outside of that she never really does anything purely out the kindness of her heart which is pretty villainous
@@blessedb277 again, villains have a very specific role in a story. glinda's character is different and deserves to be analyzed accurately, but you can't do that if you push her into the villain box.
She's selfish and not a trash person. The only good person is Elphaba.
@@IronheartvsMiles "she's selfish and not a trash person." let's sit with that statement for a moment and really think about it.
As someone currently playing Glinda (who has not watched the movie yet-),
She is not a good person.
She has a weak character (as in morally, not the writing, the writing is great), she's selfish, spoiled, and lacks empathy in the great majority of the time.
Still, I wouldn't call her a villain. After she befriends Elphaba, she doesn’t have the intention of harming anyone. Yes, she goes along with a harmful institution out of convenience - again, not a good person - but she doesn’t _want_ people to be harmed. Not an excuse, it is a bad thing, but I would in that case classify her as a pawn of the villains instead of a villain herself
And I do believe she becomes a better person by the very end of the show, when she confronts Morrible and the Wizard. She was even willing to give up being well-liked in favor of telling the truth about Elphaba, which she only didn’t because the latter made her promise ("Elphie, I'll tell them everything" "No! They'll only turn against you." "I don't care!" "I do! Promise me, promise me, you won't try to clear my name..." "Alright... I promise. But I don't understand.")
It’s a tale as old as time lol, she’s just a mean girl.
The song “No One Mourns the Wicked” is literally Glinda singing about herself. You must see the Broadway Show and Part 2 to understand.
For people who defend Glinda, there is an obvious counterpoint: Fiyero. In part 2, people will see that he's meant to be a foil character to Glinda. Elphaba changes both Glinda and Fiyero's lives forever but Fiyero is more willing to accept this change and willing to sacrifice his comfortable, privileged life to be with her. He represents true allyship. Since this story is so much about racism, I think Fiyero represents those rare, few white people who were abolitionists and participated in the Civil Rights movement.
He has just as much to lose as Glinda (he's a prince!) and yet he chooses to do the right thing. He actually resists from the inside by joining the Guard in order to search for Elphaba and make sure she doesn't get captured by the Wizard. And, in contrast to Glinda, when presented with the choice to stay in the system that gives him power and status, he chooses to go with Elphaba. Yes, it's he's because he's in love with her but also, as you mentioned, he shows true concern over what's happening to the Animals. One thing I noticed they changed from the stage show is that when we first meet Fiyero in the forest he's riding a talking Horse. I think they'll dive into this more in part 2 but I suspect they're going to make the point that Fiyero and Elphaba share something in common which is that Animals have been central to their lives and they feel a great desire to protect them.
So for people who act like Glinda couldn't have chosen differently, Fiyero proves that's just an excuse.
& he lost everything! He might be my favorite character.
Glinda actually has some good in her. The way she felt sorry for Elphaba when everybody was laughing at her during that dance scene was very touching. It showed that she had a heart. To me, she's more of a villain the same way Darth Vader was the villain in Star Wars. Selfish on the exterior, but there's that human heart hidden deep within. Of course, I've never seen the stage play. So I'm only judging based on what I've seen in the film.
She only felt bad because Elphaba helped her though. She wouldn't have felt bad if Elphaba didn't do something for her.
@@LikelyLost So? A truly evil person wouldn't have felt anything and laughed along with the rest. It took guts to put herself out there in a vulnerable position for Elphaba even when her two friends were begging her not to.
@@thedudeabides2531 i agree but i think it's fair to assume that she would've proven to be that truly evil person had elphaba not given her what she's wanted her whole life.
@@tajmalik1748 I think the author(s) of Wicked intended to show that Glinda had some good in her. If the viewer had this perception of Glinda that she's this irredeemable evil person, would the viewer shed a tear during that touching scene when she puts herself out there to ridicule in order to help her new friend Elphaba? To me, it's the heart of the film. It's always much more profound when characters have multiple layers.
Well y'all should've read the books instead
It's more clear in the books that the difference between Elphaba and Glinda is that Glinda wants to help the animals from inside the system while Elphaba wants to be a complete rebel. Both of them understand each other's decision
I see the story as more of a character study of how one can become the villain. Why I love for example Revenge of the Sith in the Star Wars Universe. In the book she is born scary to those in her family with sharp teeth, so that her Mom cannot even feed her naturally. Not necessarily evil but she can't help herself and whenever she gets mad, her powers make bad things happen. When she tries her spells, they just turn out badly, making her seen as the villain by those around her. She wants to use her powers to save the animals but it's like corrupt a wish. . .Also rewatched the Wizard of Oz recently and she really just wanted those ruby slippers back because they were her sisters' shoes and the powers she knew they had, but Glinda makes the shoes so that cannot be removed from Dorothy without taking her out. Glinda knows how Popularity is used and how politicians do the "you scratch my back, I will scratch yours" diplomacy that politicians use. Favors for favors and really how all elections for power are about who knows who you are, being Popular her most famous song in the musical. Glinda is about preserving herself and getting what is best for herself in the story.
It's mainly white women that defend glinda and that says alot as they see themselves in glindas character. Choosing privelldge and staying comfortable but somehow wishing it was different but not doing much about it and turning their backs as long as they're safe and sound
Sorry but but I disagree, Glinda isn't the villain of Wicked, The Wizard and Madame Morrible are. Glinda is an antagonist to Elphaba but an important distinction to remember is antagonist =/= villain. Antagonists rival the protagonist whereas villains have an added malicious intent behind their actions, often we see them used together on the same character but I don't think Glinda is one of those situations. Glinda is not a nice person, but I wouldn't call her evil (yes I know she bullies Elphaba in act 1, but I'm looking at the character from the overall perspective of the musical). You said it yourself, Glinda is very selfish, but being selfish just makes you a shitty person, not villainous. I know it probably sounds like I'm being rather pedantic about antagonists vs villains but I feel like too many people nowadays don't recognize that words have power and if we use them incorrectly one too many times the incorrect word becomes reality in many people's minds.
Also there was one thing I believe you misinterpreted that I wanted to put my perspective on. You say Glinda wasn't actually thinking about Dr. Dillamond during the train station scene while also seemingly implying that Fiyero and Elphaba were, which isn't true. None of them were thinking about Dr. Dillamond, when Fiyero makes that comment to Elphaba they are referring to the moment they had in the forest where they actually get to understand each other for the first time. The comment had nothing to do with Dr. Dillamond and the mistreatment of the Animals in Oz.
Ariana Grande was picked for this role for a reason.
She might not be the villain but the point of the story is that people perceive certain people as good when they aren't and others as villains when they aren't. The world's standards for what's "good and evil" is sometimes backwards and it leads to people being deeply misunderstood.
I’d say Glinda is the deuteragonist. Those are characters that can help/oppose the main character depending on their own personal conflicts. I’d say that describes Glinda perfectly.
You have some serious critical thinking skills. That was sarcasm, btw.
I feel like there are enough inconsistencies in the definitions and usage of "hero"/"villain"/"protagonist"/ and no clear source of truth that these terms have lost a lot of their distinctual meaning vis a vis narrative analysis. I say this because I actually disagree with your definition of a villain and now I've realized there's no real way to confirm which definition is objectively the correct one.
I'll keep it short. I've operated with the assumption that the villain is defined by the setting, not by their relationship to the protagonist. This is why it makes sense to say "this movie is from the perspective of the villain". Jigsaw is initially the villain of Saw X despite also being the protagonist. So is Hannibal in Hannibal Rising.
In this case, Elphaba is the villain. I don't think Glinda is the hero though. I think that title still belongs to Dorothy before she is even introduced. I'm not sure Act 1 even has a hero.
I think Glinda is the deuteragonist. The antognist is whatever's keeping them sperate. In this case, some of it is Oz but really it's the general concept of prejudice that more accurately describes the antagonist.
I think a fun word to use in place of "villain" that is more aligned with the protagonist's specific perspective is the word "enemy". Oz is certainly an enemy. I tthink you could make the argument that Glinda is an enemy.
I agree that Glinda is some kind of "bad ally". She is trying to be and she is very sweet in her attempt and you also see Elphie smiling at it, but Glinda is just really such an bad ally, because the point is: When it comes to real support that requires courage, she leaves her friend.
I belong to the aspec community and often feel left out with my desires, life goals and identity even within the queer community. When Elphies sings "Too late for second-guessing,
Too late to go back to sleep" it really touched my heart. It's releaving to embrace the own identity, but it also means turning one's back to many privileges that society holds for allo people.
I wanted Glinda to go with Elphaba in that moment so deeply and it broke my heart when she didn't.
Sorry for my english. I am from Germany;)
Whole lot of Glindas defending Glindas 😮💨😮💨😮💨
Glinda is a textbook example of the Halo Effect.
Glinda and Elphaba come at the discrimination of the fascist Ozian government from two different angles. But Glinda is currently definitely on the wrong side of Ozian history.
Elphaba from the perspective of someone who's been discriminated against for her looks and her magic, so she is empathetic towards the animals and opts to take on the label of wicked so as to help the animals. She's the rebel, the activist, the person most of us who've never experienced real discrimination can't relate well too.
Whereas Glinda comes at the discrimination of the animals as that of someone in a place of privilege and doesn't understand why it matters cos she's not an animal and non of her friends are so she doesn't see it as a bad thing to discriminate against the animals. She doesn't question it, infact she actively doesn't support independent thinking. As shown by her concern for Feryo thinking, reminds me of Gaston saying books aren't for women lol. But she is, like most of us in places of any position of privilege in society, a product of her environment and education. The world suits her just fine cos she fits in it the way she should. But even then it's all performative. She's our main relatable/character insert cos in the west (by which I mean North Americas and Europe) she the character the majority can relate too as she's the gold standard for what wyt women should be like in modern society.
Elphaba is a real authentic ally to the animals, but Glinda performs allyship to keep "the good" label, not cos she actually cares but cos she NEEDs to be loved and wanted.
The irony is both Elphaba and Glinda have low self esteem with high self confidence, but for very different reasons. Elphaba knows morally she's in the right, has a small sense of superiority for it but mostly is selfless. Glinda is anxiously self confident to feed her poor sense of self esteem. Likely cos she only got love growing up if she performed the role of government offices idealised child.
She's never learnt to think for herself, to survive her childhood.
And Elphaba had to learn to think for herself to survive her childhood.
I love the musical but hated how they left the fate of the animals under Glindas rule so unaddressed. I really hope in the next movie that really flesh out Glinda realising she's in the wrong and making changes to fix her mistakes, some scenes of her learning from Elphaba would be nice, as would seeing her change the laws around animals that the wizard put in place. I'll not say she's a good person until she uses her power for the welfare of the animals. But we'll have to wait and see for that.
I do think Glinda is an important character, as we need role models of people who were raised/educated to be ignorant to the plights of others, learning she was wrong and changing accordingly. It's unfair on minorities to always have to educate and advocate for themselves, we need people who arent discrimination against to learn the error of their ways and adapt without minorities having to train them or hold their hands (I was at a trans day of remembrance service, for all the trans folk lost in the last year, and the organisers were so busy either comforting trans folks who lost loved ones, which is what they were there to do, or having to take time to pat the backs of "ally's" who were wanting praise for being ally's and turning up - you can guess which of the two examples took up the most time for the organisers and it wasn't the ones who needed the most support).
Like in the movie when the wizard asks if it's Elphabas wish is to not be green anymore and she pauses, cos part of her that is her biggest wish, for herself that is, but she cares more about the animals than herself and that's why her wish is for the welfare of the animals. It's not performative to her, it's literal. The only reason she gave the monkey wings was cos the wizard tricked her into thinking it was the monkeys wish and she had no idea what would happen to all of them. I hope it's addressed in the next movie why the monkeys switch to Elphabas side.
That's the lesson Glinda is meant to learn in the second movie. And the lesson we need to learn also, especially these days, it's hard for people to admit they were wrong and change, in part cos we make it harder for them to change by vilifying people too early and too strictly.
Like at the current stage of the movies version of the story, it is too early to call Glinda a villain, she's a child at this stage still in school and still learning to think independently from what she's been taught. Yes she not a good person, but she wants to be, she just doesn't understand the hows yet cos she thinks what's she is doing is the right way to be good. Shetnot fully learnt to recognise Elphabas rebelliousness as more good than her, cos it's more authentic. She's still a kid.
That's why Glinda isn't a villain, not yet, she's on the path towards villainy in this movie. In the next we will see her go down that path more, than regret it and try to course correct. I hope they do that journey, the awkwardness and uncomfortableness of it justice (something like a scene where she has to apologise to the animals and they don't immediately trust her, rightly so, she'd need to okay with them not trusting her right away and acknowledge it'll take time earn their trust though positive actions). I just hope the movie her learning and fixing her mistakes is addressed better than it was in the musical.
If it's done well she can be called good while finally acknowledging her own wickedness.
The only thing in this first movie that I feel should be have been looked into more is NessaRoses suppressed wickedness, its shown a little in how she ms ashamed of Elphaba rather than supporting her when Elphaba really needed some support, but she's left as just the shy disabled girl, in the background mostly. In the musical her possessiveness and rudeness towards Elphaba is shown more from what I recall, like it was obvious she'd turn into the wicked witch of the East in the first act, even though it was subtle. Just a few shots of her giving some folk dark looks, or being manipulative of Buck or Elphaba, could've shown that NessaRose has a dark side (I know there's one shot of her looking angrily at Buck/Glinda but just makes her look jealous and insecure, doesn't really foreshadow a turn to the dark side - like a little more emphasis on her lack of caring when her dad fell ill at the end of the movie could've been focused on a little more). So it doesn't seem so weird in the next movie when she's in full tyrant mode with the poor munchkins.
I also think, with the poppy scene, the magic only put to sleep the people who weren't upset about the caged cub, which is why it didn't work on Feryo, not cos Elphaba willingly choose for it not to work on him. I thought that when she made the comment about him being upset and him being shocked, cos he hides his true feelings well.
The whole point of the story is there are no "wicked" people. Her and Elphaba are foils, Glinda is a poltician who puts efficency over morality. Elphaba is a radical who puts personal convictions over her cause. Glinda betrays her friend to stay with the wizard and advance her own political career at the expense of the animals yeah its not the moral thing to do but what if Glinda hadn't stayed? she could barely fight off 1 palace guard you expect her to be a fugitive? She doesn't have op magic like elphie to defend herself. what about her family, they don't have political positions to protect them like Elphaba's family. She could help maybe a few dozen animals escape before getting herself and Elphie captured and crucified to death like Fiyero was for helping the enemy. And then the wizard would still be in power and nothing would have changed. But by staying shes able to do what she does best, politics. She uses the wizards own propoganda against him by building a public image replacing him as the figurehead of Oz, and then when she overthrows him shes able to make actual governmental changes to actually help the animals.
THIS THIS THIS!!! Omg! This is like the perfect analysis, you explained my exact thoughts so well. Also I feel like Glinda is a gray character and only should be perceived as such because as you said, her character is made to reflect the flaws of real people. In this case, false allyship and complicity in systemic oppression. But yeah this is sooo gooddd.
Your points are what I also noticed while watching the Wicked movie. And honestly, it made me appreciate the friendship between Glinda and Elphaba less. Idk anything about Wicked, but I was under the impression that their friendship is supposed to be very close and moving, but Glinda's selfishness made me feel like none of their moments were quite genuine.
And now that I watched further into the video I feel like their friendship truly isn't that real. I'm disappointed, I wanted to be wrong because everybody makes their friendship seem desirable and like a true pair, but after watching the movie I was like am I missing something????
hmmm... maybe this is just me but i never viewed galinda dancing with elphaba and becoming friends with her as "repaying" her. i thought it was more that elphaba doing that for her, despite obviously hating her, made galinda really ask herself what the hell she was doing. i mostly agree with the characterization here overall, but i think glinda's change of heart came far before the end of the show. you see her questioning herself from the beginning, her and fiyero argue about it at the beginning of act 2, she rants to morrible during march of the witch hunters about how wrong it all is. so its weird, because she feels so much like a co-lead who doesnt _truly_ like any of the evil stuff happening, and yet you're right, going along with it because you're scared still makes you functionally a villain. i think that's what most people mean when they say shes "complicated" - not to justify, but understand her actions - at least it is for me.
💯!!! Galinda is a flawed character- a rich, selfish, beautiful, bigoted, mean girl. She was written this way on purpose, as the book intended to explore themes of racism and classism, amongst others. But when it was adapted into a musical, I noticed that many people seemed to overlook Galinda's cruelty. Instead, they got caught up in the voices and music and decided it was all about "besties." Lol! Seems even more so with the movie. Thank you for describing these themes so articulately.
THANK YOU. I read the book when it first came out and was sooooo obsessed with the broadway soundtrack once that came out! Have been incredibly annoyed by the way people have been talking about Glinda lately, without mentioning a word about the meaning of the story. Elphaba will always be my favorite! Anyway thanks for making this very important, objective point!
Galinda represents white feminism, she post a black square on Instagram (changing her name) but will vote and support Trump (the wizard).
She's not a centrist at all, she chose a side and is performative and self serving
You have interpreted the story according to how the author intended. Thank you. Its unfortunate others are blind to it. Those who disagree are probably guilty of Glinda behavior and need to self reflect.
I think something else that plays a part in why Glinda is perceived as good by the audience and why people are so desperate to see her as only that and misunderstood is because they got to know her. They got to watch her relationship with Elphaba in this story, and they WANT to perceive it as good. It kinda makes me think of having family members or friends who do harmful stuff, but people turn a blind eye or give them so many justifications. It is because we WANT to perceive these people as good, since we know them on a more deeper level than we would a stranger or acquaintances who's doing the exact same harmful stuff. The Wizard, Madame Morrible, and Oz as a whole are supposed to be the villains, we barely know them, we can easily toss them aside, but Glinda is someone we spent so much time with, she's not so easily dismissible. It says a lot about the stakes of our morality, how far will we go to see what's right? Will we turn a blind eye to those closest to us simply because we are close to them. These people are special just because we built a relationship with them. We can humanize them and give them grace, but we can do that to every person, we can't be delusional on people's goodness and their lack of integrity. Glinda is someone I see myself getting close to, and believing the relationship was true, and that scares me
This Wicked movie was the unexpected wellness check for our time.
Reading through this comment section, the lyric "There are precious few at ease with moral ambiguities, so we act as though they don't exist" (from the act 2 song "Wonderful") has never been more relevant. The theme of the show was to complicate the assumptions around good and evil, not blindly flip them.
No Glinda is not the villain. It is the Wizard of Madame Morrible. She is a political prisoner of her own according. Elphie was born very dark-humored from the beginning. She even sucked on a bird's head as a baby and bit a finger off. Now in The Wizard of Oz Glinda is a villain. Elphaba just wants her sister's slippers. Glinda does show emotions in the beginning and also, she loves Elphie and even visits to try and tell Elphaba not to hurt Dorothy and Elphie agrees. I feel you are tone deaf.
Correct. So good that you mentioned the song writing, honestly just read and listen to what is being communicated through the songs.
yeah I was surprised by the comments I was getting which is what prompted the follow up!! I should’ve talked more about the message of the story in my original vid!!
I had to listen to popular to hear it, than listening to it.
10:51 the line they used is “I don’t even think he’s perfect anymore but i still want him”
It broke my heart to see elphaba scapegoated 😢
So glad you posted this! I was telling my mom that I was caught a bit off guard by how good Ariana’s acting was because I think it enabled the Glinda character to be even “worse” than I remember her being in the stage version. I was anticipating the good/bad to feel more in between but she was almost solidly “bad” in my opinion. I don’t personally give points for recognizing the humanity in someone… while the moment dancing with Elphaba was very touching, it just shows that she has the capacity for empathy and largely chooses to ignore it to protect herself. She’s my favorite character and I can definitely relate to her, but I agree she’s a villain, or at least is not a helpful influence on society at large.
her nuance and complex character is so interesting that makes her my fav character too. we all are much closer to resembling glinda than elphaba but we don’t like to admit that
I felt like there really were no "wicked" people in the story. Her and Elphaba are foils, Glinda is a poltician who puts efficency over morality. Elphaba is a radical who puts personal convictions over her cause. Glinda betrays her friend to stay with the wizard and advance her own political career at the expense of the animals yeah its not the moral thing to do but what if Glinda hadn't stayed? she could barely fight off 1 palace guard you expect her to be a fugitive? She doesn't have op magic like elphie to defend herself. what about her family, they don't have political positions to protect them like Elphaba's family. She could help maybe a few dozen animals escape before getting herself and Elphie captured and crucified to death like Fiyero was for helping the enemy. And then the wizard would still be in power and nothing would have changed. But by staying shes able to do what she does best, politics. She uses the wizards own propoganda against him by building a public image replacing him as the figurehead of Oz, and then when she overthrows him shes able to make actual governmental changes to actually help the animals.
Wait wait wait, wicked is NOT a book on good vs evil. It is WAY more complicated than that. Its core is built around people's ability to think for themselves instead of just accepting things for what others tell you they are. Glinda is literally the character that enjoys her life in OZ only to get her eyes opened by Alphaba. Then she has to come to terms with the fact that her life was not as perfect as she thought it was. She then struggles trying to unsee the bad she was shown, only to later use her position to help OZ. Like Alphaba accepting her role as a villain, Glinda also had to accept her role as the golden child while both had to find ways to navigate behind the scenes to help OZ. The people themselves are too blinded by the politics that these two girls end up becoming a part of. But both make moves for the greater good. As Glinda grows, she does become wiser, and kinder. while Alphaba who was already wise and kind becomes more jaded. Was Glinda good? No, but she wasn't bad either. She was young. And through most of her journey, she has to deal with learning being actually GOOD is a ln abstract concept, and that things are not so black and white. She learns she was spoiled, but she uses that to grow over time, much like Alphaba wasn't 100 percent good either near the end of her journey. (This is all book stuff btw.) Both made mistakes. Both involving the Nessa incident. But I wouldn't call Glinda the villain any more than I would call Alphaba the hero. They are literally two women navigating a political war. The wizard and Madame morrible were the villains. For sure. Those two had goals, and were willing to sacrifice people left and right to reach it. And their goals were selfish unlike the goals of Glinda and Alphaba. Honestly your position, is a very good representation of your generation's point of view of morality. It's very much in line with Alphaba's at the start of the story. Very "this is this, that is that." And no room for questioning. Which I think is why this story is such a great for Gen Z now that they are adults. Especially because of how our Political system is constructed now. So please for the love of God, don't just STOP analyzing this story at face value. Because there's so much more too this than "Glinda the mean girl". Now it's been a LONG while since I last read the book, and I never finished the 3rd. But I remember the details of this story because of how complex it was. I'm I saying everything you said is wrong? No, but it's not the full story either. And you have a lot of the story down already, but there's still a lot more to it. Mainly the mistakes the characters made on their journeys. One thing I think you misunderstood with Glinda, is she wasn't like the people of OZ who blatantly ignored the movments of evil. Glinda may not of been as active or all hands in like the prince (who actually is a foil to Glinda to show her duality) but she still made meaningful plays, at the request of Alphaba. That's basically why Glinda got her part in defying gravity. It's to show how young Glinda hesitated. And she missed her chance to fly with Alphaba. But she doesn't just write off her friend and completely joins the dark side either. So not no, not villainess ....though that would make a good story too.
She didnt say it was only good vs evil, in fact she said almost the opposite of that. I think you read 2/3 of the series and have an huge ego. She analyzed it pretty well and said multiple times it isnt just one bad person against one good person
@halalola432 1. people who result to insults while analyzing the concept of a book, have no place in the discussion. Move out. 2. I already said I never finished the 3rd book. So if you're gonna act like you eat, then you're eating air. 3rd. I already pointed out that her analysis is a good one, especially when it fits the real concept behind the growth of the main character. As for the rest of what you're completely out of touch with, I'm not even gonna bother. My ego is too big to give a
5 mins in.
I liked that you mentioned that it's not black and white couse I felt it was a lil reductive to say the point of the show was to say hey evil can come in pink too tehee.
It removes a lot of the nuance.
And I am also glad you defined what you meant by the villain of the story. That helped me see your point more clearly.
Best!
For someone who didn’t watch the wizard of oz, I was quite confused watching wicked because all the interviews with Ariana and Cynthia always portrayed Wicked as a story about friendship and when I watched it, I saw anything but that.
This review is consistent with what I actually thought. Glenda wasn’t nice, Elphaba just didn’t have friends
Wow. Great take. I always viewed the title 'wicked' as a description of the wizard, Madame Morrible and their society but not Glinda. Now I'm pretty sure that the intention of that title was to describe Glinda as the real wicked witch :O
When I first listened to the musical I didn't like Glinda and thought she was selfish and annoying but I grew to love her since I liked her relationship with Elphaba. I even felt bad that... SPOILERS... in the end, Glinda is left alone and to believe that Elphaba is dead. But with this new take on Glinda, I think that was just her punishment; to live knowing that she never did enough to save her friend. Awesome video! :D
It is her punishment tho. The fact that elphaba and fiyero got to run away and live their best life, meanwhile glinda has to be this "good witch" and got pushed around by the government.
Yea i think she deserves it
OK, you said that ELPHABA is not beautiful, but she looks gorgeous in the film.
It's probably like racists would call black women ugly but we all know many of them look gorgeous af. So I think just by being green she was automatically seen as ugly by most people there.
lol of course Cynthia is gorgeous. She meant that in the musical/movie people view her as ugly because she’s green (different).
No she's not
Because Cynthia is gorgeous
Cynthia power. She is so lovable and GORGEOUS!
Not gonna lie, I thought all of this was obvious. 😂 Great video, you put these points together really well. ❤
I know not much about Wicked, but I was definitely fuming against Glinda when I was watching the movie. So now that I watched this video, I'm feeling like I'm not crazy for thinking the same as you. But I am so upset that their characters do not match with how people made them seem as an outsider to I guess the Wicked fandom. I wish they could really fit their role, either becoming truly wicked or good at some point because I am just so devastated for my girl Elphaba. Like she was dogged on from the beginning to the end and what you said about her in the second act is kind of killing me.
Justice for Elphaba.
Galinda honestly even charms the audience.. that is why they don't want to paint her as the villain lol
13:36 Yk what in part 1 i COMPLETELY agree! As much as I like Galinda, she was NOT a good person in act I. Like, at all. her arc is only just beginning and act II is when she gets 90% of her growth. Defying gravity was literally step 1 for her.
Glinda in Wicked is an annoying, immature narcissist.
Glinda in the Wizard of Oz is a truly cunning and mad villain, given that she exploits her looks and reputation to carry out the ultimate power grab in Oz...with Dorothy as an unwitting mercenary.
I’ve only seen the movie and she looked kinda naive to me, not necessarily evil. Maybe she truly believed the wizard and Madame were trying to change things for good. Since she was obsessed with popularity she knew everyone would hate her if she joined Elphie, but she was willing to.
Glinda is singing about herself in "No One Mourns the Wicked". She knowingly then becomes part of the Ozian Propaganda machine despite knowing
a.) The Wizard is a Fraud
b.) The Wizard and Morrible plan to spy on the citizens of Oz
c.) The Wizard is willing to do horrible things to achieve his goals
She is one of the antagonists
If folks can't realize Glinda wasn't shit, you might be the same as her...
God help you.
I think the only disagreement for me is saying she's "THE villain"
Like does she take villainOUS actions, especially in part 2? Definitely. Is she A villain? You could make a good argument for that. Is she THE villain, the one whose antagonistic intentions are the main drive of the plot against the protagonist? Probably not, or at least still not as much as the Wizard, imo
Ive still always viewed her as at the very least having extremely compromised morals (not a "good" person, whatever that metric is supposed to measure) and basically agree on everything else, and i find it very confusing if/that people irl give Elphaba more shit (for ????), like the entire point of the story just defied gravity right over their heads???
I feel like people don’t realise what happened in the story:
Glinda let her friend basically get lynched and continue to call her wicked after her death.
And you’re defending that? Do you hear how that sounds?
I completely agree with you even in the beginning when she was telling the story of elphaba when that one girl when she said, is it true that you were her friend she said yeah and then when everybody was like oh shocked that she said yes she redacted that and was like oh well, I mean that we crossed paths from that moment I knew she was fake
I've only read the book so with a grain of salt I agree that Glinda is a villian, but she's not the only one. Society in that world is also not so great. Galinda is one of those people who wants to be friends with and liked by everyone because she is terrified of being disliked. Those people are not your friend typically since they will do things that hurt you if it means someone will like them or praise them. But yes, the main point of the story, even the book, is partially about superficial people (the book even dips into some "racism") and how horrible society can be if you are different.
I'm glad you posted this because I have not seen the movie or musical because I was under the impression that they heavily softened Glinda. It doesn't sound like they heavily softened to her, but it looks like they gave her an arc to try and save her at the end and like she is also a victim of society just because she is pretty. The book does not give her this arc and it feels like some very pretty people were offended and tried to make themselves victims in the adaptation of this. LOL
As a Wicked fan since time immemorial, that's exactly the point. Wicked is a subtle commentary on society. Disappointed on how long it took yall to realize. She starts out already being a narcissist if that wasnt obvious already...
I wouldn't call it subtle, I would just say that media literacy is dead. The message of the show is about as subtle as the Vegas Strip.
I can 100% GUARANTEE that the people saying she is good, didn't see the guilt Arianna displayed in "No One Mourns the Wicked"
THANK YOU FOR THIS !!!! i am an arianator but i watched every stage version on youtube before seeing it because i was eager and so much of this went over my head. and i think this is a testament to how great of a villian she is and how beautifully this story is written. i wanted to argue and say that glinda is not THE villian but one of the villians and she's not a terrible, awful, horrible person, she's JUST a lil selfish, but u made me realize the extent of her selfishness and exactly how harmful it is. also u made me realize that the only reason i wanted to defend her at all is because she's so likeable as she's written and performed so perfectly and accurately.
and i'm glad that u acknowledged that u don't believe in concrete definitions because i think it fails to acknowledge her character arc/change of heart. i'm also glad that u acknowledged that because that's another reason i wanted to defend her so bad. she's not TOTALLY bad and i think that's the way u made it sound kinda.
She isn't a villain, In the original story I think they made it more clear that Glinda wanted to change the system from the inside while Elphaba wanted to entirely be away from the system
@@wellhellothere-v1hbut still applies that in the film and the play Glinda is a villain after all wicked is only based on the books is not a screen adaptation. Wicked took snippets of the books but at the end is its own story.
So yes in the books I bet Glinda is the good one but for wicked the creator decided to switch things up and it’s valid.
Can be confusing but let’s have clear Wicked is not Oz it’s just kind of based on it.
@@sarizonana Well, in the play Glinda vows to be a good ruler for the people of Oz by the end so there is that. The fact that Glinda is successful when Elphaba isn't is another thing.
the books are totally different and a can of worms I don't want to open. I don't like the books very much
@@tajmalik1748 glinda isn't the villain for being self absorbed because she's also incredibly empathetic and generous. The SECOND the secured the political power to do so she immediately arrested and deported the individuals responsible for the systemic oppression of animals
It’s so obvious she’s the villain. She is actually Elphaba’s Frenemies. She became friends with her to be in the program, she went to emerald city with her to meet the wizard. She was Elphaba’s friend out of convenience. She was using her the whole time
The whole point of the story is there are no "wicked" people. Her and Elphaba are foils, Glinda is a poltician who puts efficency over morality. Elphaba is a radical who puts personal convictions over her cause. Glinda betrays her friend to stay with the wizard and advance her own political career at the expense of the animals yeah its not the moral thing to do but what if Glinda hadn't stayed? she could barely fight off 1 palace guard you expect her to be a fugitive? She doesn't have op magic like elphie to defend herself. what about her family, they don't have political positions to protect them like Elphaba's family. She could help maybe a few dozen animals escape before getting herself and Elphie captured and crucified to death like Fiyero was for helping the enemy. And then the wizard would still be in power and nothing would have changed. But by staying shes able to do what she does best, politics. She uses the wizards own propoganda against him by building a public image replacing him as the figurehead of Oz, and then when she overthrows him shes able to make actual governmental changes to actually help the animals.
I actually feel ya. I was just talking about this topic a few weeks back in school about how society forces one and many to fit into social roles and norms, even though they're bad AF.
Oh sis you are clocking that tea! 👏🏾
Also Fiyero was portrayed as a black person in the book. That was taken out of the musical.
Also Fiyero wasn't a love interest in the book there's lots of differences between the book and the musical.
@@MayaLove777he had something going on with Elphaba but, he wasn’t in a relationship with Glinda/ there was no love triangle.
Are you… sure about that?
@@MayaLove777.....Elphaba literally has a child by Fiyero before the brown shirts kill him.
I thought he was ochre colored?
13:42-14:52 Speak on it! It is crazy in media how the pretty and popular character always gets a pass for bad behavior just because they fun to watch. It's okay to like a problematic character but instead of just saying "I like her/him even thought they are problematic or did something bad" people go out of their way to make them the victim while tearing down everyone else or make excuses for their actions.
I love your explanation… on the other hand, I feel so bad for Dorthy. All this drama is happening in Oz and she landed in the middle of it. She’s just a sweet kid that just wants to get home :(
It’s like her friendship with elphaba ends up being real. She really likes her but wants a relaxed easy cute friendship. She’s never had to have depth. I feel she is sad about her death in the movie and maybe feels a little guilty but she never did anything to fix anything so she doesn’t feel genuine responsibility for anything. She just feels sad.
Lots of Galindas in our world. That’s why
This is so true. she’s like an exaggerated version of every bully ever haha
Couldn't agree more. All of the above.
I read the book and definitely thought it was the Wizard and Madame Morrible who were the bad guys. Galinda was just a bit clueless. I wouldn't say she was exactly likeable or lovable at all. Mostly I didn't spend much time thinking about her until the latter books.
It's also not so easy to erase the harm that evil does in the books, much like in real life, so it's more of a generational struggle with true heroics few and far between and often seemingly futile.
I suppose, upon reflection, that a lot of what was done to the Animals to make them lose their voices was also done to Glinda in a way as she was conditioned by society to be what she was and only slowly was able to grow out of it.
Ok do you want me to explain what Glinda does in the other books and how she helps get people murdered or do you want to make her a good person out of that to. Wake up. Glinda is not a good person.
If you read the book, why, when the Wizard was gone, and she was ruling... did the Animals still stay in jail? Plus, Fiyero daughter?
In the book it was clear that Glinda wanted to make a change from the inside and neither Glinda nor Elphaba actually manage to do anything
@@cashaetaylor7466 The books are not very well written but I guess you need to tell me
What did Elpahaba ever do for the said animals? And why did she decide to f*ck Glinda's fiance which caused a lot of drama?
Answer this and I'll answer you about Glinda being stupid enough not to see her chances of freeing the animals
@wellhellothere-v1h Elphaba never fucked Glindas fiance.
Glinda engaged and married an older financier.
Fiyero was already married by the time he arrives at Shiz. He doesn't have an affair with Elphaba until they're adults in Oz.
Tell me you haven't read the book without telling me.
I always thought Glindas actions were a liitle sus. And Regina George came to my mind. I've meet so many people like them.
Saying Glinda is the villain is literally rejecting her writing of the character 😭 we are talking about the musical and movie not the book, we all know the book is different, she might’ve been a villain there but in the musical and movie is not.
She can be called anti hero though
These people call her a villain based on the basis that Elphaba is a hero without realizing how useless Elphaba actually is.
I mean for all the talking Elphaba does, the most political thing she ever does is sleeping with Viero
Yes! I have always felt like both Elphaba and Glinda are antiheroes. There is sooooo much grey, and I like that. It shows humanity. Especially when female characters are so often written as either good or evil, and rarely with nuance. Crazy Ex Girlfriend is another piece with really nuanced female characters who make some... very questionable decisions, lol. Can't wait for Part 2 🩷💚
Glinda fits the dictionary definition of villian more than anti hero. The dictionary defines anti hero as a central character in a story, movie, or drama who lacks conventional heroic attributes. Villian is a character whose evil actions or motives are important to the plot. Glinda is, by definition, the villian. But clearly by fans, she is somehow not. I prefer the dictionary definition though.
Saying she's not the villain but the "anti-hero" is like saying I'm not a liar I'm an "anti-truth teller" 🙄
@@4u2cre8 you clearly don't know what that means and life is not black and white not everything is always GOOD and EVIL
I think it’s so important to catch Glinda’s line in “no one mounrns the wicked” that galinda is born wicked (born beautiful, into a shallow family, with the natural affliction to for wickedness) and Elphaba has wickedness thrust upon her.