Game of Thrones Season 8 - The Long Night SPOILER DISCUSSION
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 30 เม.ย. 2019
- Game of Thrones Season 8 - The Long Night SPOILER DISCUSSION
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Well now that the mini boss is dead we can get to the real threat, a pregnant alcoholic and her pirate boyfriend.
Salad King the disney pirate with a finger in her bum*
Salad King Bruh I was just drinking a sprite when I read this, now it’s everywhere, why god?
Brilliant...I heard "Zinfadel-drinking soccer mom " from someone...
Argh me m8ies are going to swashbuckle their souls
lmao
*Season 1-7* - “All the wars in Westeros are just a distraction from the Great War”
*Season 8x03* - “The Great War is just a distraction from all the wars in Westeros”
Yikes
big oof
This comments sums up the utter stupidity of this episode and how it didn't just kill a storyline but the entire series.
Feelsbadman
So you think the Long Night was just a distraction? I thought the cost was very high to prevent the extinction of life on Westeros.
The wights kill 90% of the Dothraki and half the unsullied, but can't kill Sam.
The worst part is Jon had to make a very hard choice mid-battle: save Sam and risk Bran and the safety of everyone, or leave Sam to die and focus on the bigger picture. Too bad none of the decisions made by the characters in this episode have any consequences
when your plot armour is thiccc.
@Sixgun Symphony I honestly would have loved Ghost and Sam in the crypts. It would have been really nice to see them team up with Tyrion and Sansa to become some sort of losers club and save all the women and children. Plus, Sam in the crypts with Gilly and little Sam would have brought out the best Sam and not done him so freaking dirty.
@@dhoulmagusrhapthorne9082 Everytime you thought the writers would make bold decisions in this episode, like Tyrion & Sansa almost sacrificing/killing themselves, or Jon leaving Sam behind for the greater good, it turns out that it all lead to nothing. The potential for great, consequential storytelling was right there..
They simply just didnt had the balls to pull it off, since the show became way to popular for its own good and fanfavorite characters.. cant.. fucking.. die.. anymore !
Like how awesome and emotional it would have been If Sam actually died in that moment, since we all like him but also saw the bigger picture.
Sixgun Symphony that tower would’ve been attacked by visieron and/or the swarm of zombies. Tyrion should’ve been armed in the crypts but he would’ve been a lousy shot since he was bloody drunk
The real issue now is there is no urgency.
- Why even go down to King's landing right away, let them attack you.
- Bran is basically a screen watcher that can alert you at any time.
- You can send Arya to assassinate Cersei at any time.
Agreed
- have dany fly her dragon over and burn everything to the ground.
honestly this is why i think more characters should have died because if they die against cersei it's not really going to have much impact because as you said all they have to do is stay where they're at and they will be fine. the only way for cersei to be in any way a threat to them is if they march south.
That should be how this ends. Send Arya and chill in the North. She can kill Cersei and her top allies stealthily.
I think Cersei will come to them
They can also just wait a month until cersei runs out of money and the golden company leaves.
Season 1: Winter is coming
Season 2: Winter is coming
Season 3: Winter is coming
Season 4: Winter is coming
Season 5: Winter is coming
Season 6: Winter is coming
Season 7: Winter is here
Season 8: Eh Winter actually wasn't so bad but....Cersei is coming
HA HA! Well noted!
Winter killed hundreds of thousands of people, more people died in that battle than the entirety of the rest of the show, the white walkers have been responsible for 95% of all the deaths in this show. How is that in any way, "not that bad". Winter came and was within a few moments of killing literally everybody.
It's funny, g r r Martin has consistently said that his frustration with epic fantasy is that books normally end with an epic battle, the hero becomes the king and its all assumed that everything will be great. He has commented on this several times, stating that he is more interested in aragorn's tax plan than the battles.
Why then are people surprised that the threat of the walkers was ended 3 episodes before the conclusion. The story was never going to be about Jon killing the evil baddie, and everything fading to black. There was always going to be a focus on what comes after.
Smagic that’s what Bran saw in tower before Jaime pushed him out the window...I guess that’s why he’s the 3 eyed raven.
Three episodes less than was possible for winter to continue through
David Jones Because people hop on the Game of Thrones band-wagon because people they know told them how great it was, and as is the cynical nature of modern society everyone’s a critic
When you get down to it the writers genocided the Dothraki for a visual spectacle
Yeah, i hated this, especialy when they alrdy knew from before that any who die just get added to the night kings army, so a suicide cav charge makes no sense... Only reason was that it looked eerie and cool to see the lights charge in and then go out one by one, oooooh scary
This is the dumbest thing i've ever seen, Daenerys spend 5 seasons trying to get the Dothraki army, all this wasted for a 10 seconds scene where their sword on fire turn off, bravo d&d, fucking genius
@@mordor1779 The reason they died so fast is because they do not know how to do any other style of battle. Their entire life they have always been able to charge and scream IE "dothraki screamers". When Mel lit up their swords it fueled their push to try and rush out so they did not think. During the rush, jorah looked reluctant but had to push with the cav
@Badge Man exactly. Thats why they charged out. On top of them thinking they can charge out like always, the dead also formed like a 10 foot high wave of bodies and the dothraki just hit them
It wasn't just visual "spectacle" it was visual storytelling.
It established the threat. It raised the stakes. It was terrifying.
Like...I get that maybe you were hyped to see the Dothraki do more than that, but let's not pretend that their death served no purpose. Taking such dangerous allies and killing them in like five seconds really said a lot about how dangerous the White Walkers are.
Bran was busy building a nest and collecting worms.
Yup... but i do have to admit, the comment "where did bran go?" "To watch Endgame, he'd already seen the end of GoT." was funny.
😂😂
Genius 😂
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
You could at least give credit for that joke! LOL
I think this final season is just more proof that without the source material the show has lost its magic.
Or has too much magic. For instance, how they were magically victorious with a practically suicidal battle plan.
Who cares about magic If you can have zombie polar bears?!1?!11?
@@viracocha But when will you stop whining? 😆
@@manuelpatino7863 people above him are and you fucktard
"You'll never walk again. But you will sit in a chair, in a garden"
I died hahaha
Dan Mallaburn Arya killing NK made no damn sense.
What happens to everything the white walkers touch? They turn into immediately and shatter
Arya should’ve been a pile of ice cubes on the floor, this show is so fucking stupid now
“You’ll never walk again. But you will walk again, through Hodor”
Atlanta Guns You’ve just created your own powers for White Walkers there pal - they’ve never been shown to turn what they touch to shattered ice. Their weapons can shatter the swords of their enemies, but they have never been shown to have the same powers using their hands on anything
Young Nation go back and rewatch it. They caught a sword with their bare hands and it immmediately turned to ice and shattered. Not making anything up! You guys just don’t wanna admit that part was super lame
Atlanta Guns Dude the White Walkers didn’t even have a fighting sequence in this past episode what are you talking about? What’s the time stamp for the episode?
It's not about how many characters died or survived. They were put in impossible situations and then magically didn't die because the enemies around them just stopped being around them. The battle of the Blackwater was much better, and you never saw the hound or tyrion being piled on by Stannis troops with nary an inch between them. If you want a character to survive don't throw them out an airplane with no parachute in one shot and then have them running along the ground in the next shot. Game of Thrones has started doing this over and over again and it wrecks suspension of disbelief.
They will just downplay your criticism like they did all this time
facts
Nathan Dickson that’s not the point
If they were going to live, fine. But don’t show them in multiple situations where a regular character would die.
It's fucking unbelievable how the biggest TV show ever just ignores rules like that. These scenes would be heavily criticised in a high school project movie, but somehow because it looks good and has a kickass soundtrack we are supposed to eat it up and not have disagreements? The emperor has no clothes
PBGellie exactly lol if they wanted them to live then dont put them in situations where should be totally dead
If the writing is good you don't have to make up fan stories or excuses for the missing parts.
@@muezzinmeier2569 jesus... toxic much?
@@muezzinmeier2569 fan theories aren't what make shit bad. the sopranos was constantly introducing story arcs and destroying them, to achieve actual practical misdirection, with lots of fan theories abounding. the problem is when 100% of fan theories are rendered moot because the show writers just don't give a shit, and go for gimmicky M Night Shamalayan twists that piss everyone off so they can say "HAH SEE WHAT WE DID THERE? ARENT YOUR EXPECTATIONS SUBVERTED?!!!" But edgelords like yourself love M night, so i guess it makes sense.
@@muezzinmeier2569 then dont watch it
Lady X that’s actually not true at all, good writing is something that gets people talking and thinking and trying to figure out what happens next. If something has bad writing nobody gives a fuck.
Not even necessarily talking about this episode or the show, just in general you’re pretty wrong.
Muezzin Meier this show was openly discussing prophecy as recently as Melisandre / dany in the dragonstone throne room, last season.
So kindly take your shitty strawman argument and return it to where the sun doesn’t shine.
Marissa put it best: the Night King dying was not cathartic at all.
This is not the ep that was meant to be cathartic. And, GRRM and DnD and all the actors have said that this show does not end on a happy note....The actress for breanne said the whole world will need anti depressants after this show is over. Nothing we want will happen. dany and jon will die. no one we thought was going to win the throne, will. 100% GRRM is all about doing whats real. whats best. Not what we 'want' not what you 'expect' he killed off the main character at the end of the first book... the guy that was right and just and does the right thing and boom. Dead. Tommen...good and right. Dies. Jon...good and right, dies. Sure, brought back but, he gunna die again. It's going to be a very unstatisfying ending. Which is why it is going to be SO GOOD>
Tim Friday You know GOT can also end on another unsatisfying conclusion too right? With the Night king and White walkers still being the Central core focus of the last season?
@@timfriday9106 I hate to sound like I'm an armchair genius, but I'm going to. People like you fail to understand the charm of the original few seasons and I would presume the books (haven't read them) the reason people originally loved the show was because yes, it was subversive, but in a very satisfying way. In most shows/movies you have build up and payoffs. 9 times out of 10 it's the hero conquering their foes. In this show there is a still a build up and pay off as there should be, but GRRM is genius in doing it in a much more realistic way. In a traditional show the buildup of Ned realizing Jeoffery the bastard was actually a bastard would have resulted in him exposing the false king and Rob coming to the rescue with his army and setting things right. Instead it's paid off in a way you would never expect from hollywood, by the person we've been following since the beginning of the show losing his head. However it's "cathartic" because it's been built up, Ned constantly tells his daughter what kind of place this is and he (and the audience) are constantly reminded by other characters that honesty and honor are not rewarded there. It's subversive, but in a way that makes sense in the world it is set in. There is no build up to arya killing the night king, in fact the circumstance surrounding his death make absolutely no sense in the world that's been built in the show. Neither does such a large number of named characters who were mostly on the fucking front lines of the battle surviving. Now the show has turned into the same thing every other show is.
@@timfriday9106 If you're going to make it subversive at least make the twist make sense.
@@timfriday9106 Yeah whatever, just try to convince yourself. You really believing stuff that actors are saying ? Those guys that literally have no say in how shows/movies end ?
Its going to be a fanservice type of ending no matter what, since the show became way to big for its own good.
They clearly dont care about writing anymore, its all about dickriding fanfavorite characters and visuals.
We all know most of them will be fine by the end of this show and Sam is going to write his story like in the end of fucking Lord of the Rings smfh.
HBO: " What do we say to good writing?"
D&D: "Not today"
HBO: "What do we say to good writing?"
D&D: "We'll have it until we run out of the momentum the source material provided."
True
That joke's written better than seasons 6-8.
Season 1: Khal Drogo dies of an infection
Season 1: Ned walks with a limp for the rest of his life after being speared through the calf.
Season 2: Robb gets murdered for betraying an alliance.
Actions have consequences.
Even for main, plot driving characters.
Season 8e3: Everyone survives getting zerg rushed by 30 zombies at once for 20 minutes, with no significant and lasting injuries and Beric is Wolverine.
Actions have no consequences.
At least not for 90% of named characters.
It's not that we wanted people to die. It's that we wanted Game of Thrones to follow its rule that actions have consequences. If the battle 'plan' hadn't been as ridiculous as putting your siege weapons in front of your defenses, then D&D could have made a halfway plausible reason for everyone surviving. You're into shock and subversion? How about Brienne losing an arm? How about Sam's Crying no Jutsu not saving him after Jon decides not to help him?
The whole thing was bait and switch cop-outs.
THe studio knows they have a cash cow. Viewers are coming in regardless of what happens, so why spend a lot of money?
"Hey guys let's let the armies mix before raining down dragon fire. Also make sure to put the infantry in front of the trench. Shit we got this"
@@blackr0se - are you seriously saying that HBO skimped on the cost? Really? GOT is the most expensive tv show ever made - there's having an opinion and then there's just being plain, demonstrably wrong.
KEKEKEKEKEKEKEKE
NK2GOSU
Dothraki mad imba
@Elle H why are you so angry just enjoy people's comments
"Tarly, I forbid you to die" Jhor Mormont
No wonder Sam lived
The WWs didn't kill him at the fist of the first men. Maybe they knew he wasn't a threat and kill him last lol
Magic stronger than ww
@@Shelly-lz9tm they knew he would be sobbing on the ground and cause other people who were actually useful to take their guard down during this battle (e.g. Edd)
Haha well played. But yeah if they really needed him survive this was the stupidest way to make it happen. He could have been in the crypts for the same reason Tyrion was. Then he could have killed a few wight protecting pregnant Gilly and little Sam like he did before. It's the only time he's not a coward. Nah lets have him waddle around for an hour cuddling with wights and hope nobody notices.
@@eternalreign2313 With GRRM a fan of LotR is Sam the story teller? I can't see i being Bran..
Well Cersei is no problem, just tell Arya to go down and assinate her.
Yeah, she seems to have everything under control.
exactly
pretty much
I think she is going to try. and I think she is going to fail. Remember, gregor is a demon. her sneakiness probably wont fool him. Qyburn would have something up his sleeve etc. I bet that option will be explored but end up she'll have to help in another way.
@@timfriday9106 "Gregor is a demon" well Night king was meant to be the king of demons and she had no issue getting rid of him lmao
Wow, I don't think you guys even touched on Theon's death. That one takes the cake for me.
"Theon. You're a good man. Thank you."
The look Alfie Allen gives is the perfect closure to the character. He's just been given the absolution for the wrongs he's done, and can finally die at peace. As a Stark.
SlyScyther Thanks for a very pure comment.
that scene definitely hits the feels.
100% with you. Bran speaking to Theon and Theon's subsequent death were the most impactful for me.
Theon’s death was hardest for me.
Yeah all the deaths in this episode were well handled compared to the rest of the episode
I always knew Brienne was going to live through this battle. I think shes going to die in kings landing because of Cersei and that's going to be what makes Jaime snap and kill his sister.
That sounds poetic and like you need to understand the characters which means that's exactly what's not going to happen.
@@IShotLazer your right it probably won't happen that way but I did think her death would have been wasted in the north so I'm glad she lived to die another day. lol
Nah they are going to give the kill to Arya because D&D love fan service and feminist girl power bullshit.
i’d enjoy this
@@dsfddsgh Go away troll
lol arya playing resident evil/the evil within while jon was playing dark souls
Underrated
Darth Arya...
Marissa had a lot of intelligent things to say, basically agreed 100% with her. The episode was fine, but it could have been much better if D&D had bothered to do some basic narrative work.
@@viracocha Sure! So narratively it's good to have certain characters connected with certain themes or arcs in a series. For many seasons Jon has been the key character battling against the white walkers. He's a brother of the night's watch and has encountered white walkers several times just barely escaping. Because he has a history with white walkers and the night king, it would have been more satisfying to see him kill the night king. D&D choose what would "surprise" people over what would be a satisfying conclusion to the white walker arc. Arya meanwhile has never has any kind of interaction with white walkers, the night king, or the far north. While it's a SURPRISE that she gets to kill the night king, it feels empty because she has no personal relationship or history with this character. Jon does. It's also really strange that the show is rewarding Arya with this victory and turning her into a hero. Past seasons have definitely implied that Arya's obsession with vengeance is dangerous. Characters rarely get what they want in GoT, and I have always expected Arya to be punished at some point for her single-minded focus on violence, vengeance, and destruction. The show certainly implies that Arya is in a dangerous mental state with past seasons. But now suddenly she's a big hero saving the day? It really doesn't fit in with what the show has been setting up in the past... Anyway hope that helps!
It's fine that they didn't die. The issue is that you have people who are (SAM) flailing on their back for 45 minutes in the middle of the courtyard and live. same with brienne, pod, tourmond, greyworm, and jaime. it's fine that they live, if they are back into a room that they can defend from (Like the Hound). but you can't have them in the middle of the Courtyard fighting and live.
It was hilarious how they came in convenient groups of two to three when they were up against the wall or when Theon was fighting them out in the open (generally a recipe for suicide).
What about the onion Knight? How the hell is he still alive.
@@phillyb8347 at least he wasn't shown actively fighting like Sam etc were. But yeah, valid point.
@Donald Smith I think it was an extremely underwhelming episode and people were really hyped and are responding out of emotion. They'll eventually come around and most will watch the last 3 episodes. Though I do disagree with you on the part where you say the problems were minor. They really messed up on multiple fronts this time around - not exactly unprecedented in light of the Wight Hunt - but the hype to delivery ratio (esp after two build up episodes) was startlingly low, perhaps the lowest its ever been on the show. Again, that's just my opinion and you may disagree but I figured I'd at least share it.
@@AhaanM lol he was just chilling in the shadows watching Arya fight!!!
Season 1 - 8.2: "The Iron Throne doesn't matter. There's a bigger threat to the north."
After Episode 3: "The Night King and the Army of dead weren't the main threat, it's about the throne."
nailed it
After episode 6: "The throne doesn't matter, it was a story about the faceless men all along."
@Melly Reed
It is not that they should have won, but they should have lost in a believable way. There was no reason for the night king to enter winterfell. It was a death trap. The fact that he died there proves it.
Just imagine WW2 ended because Hitler decided to walk into an English base camp to stare down Churchill, but then surprisingly getting killed. How dumb would that have been? Well as dumb as the Night King.
@Melly Reed Why do all of you think that we are pissed because the night king lost? no one ever thought he would make it out of this show alive. We just didn't expect him to be a one dimensional character and a caricature of a villain.
Exactly. The show led us the audience to believe aswell as Jon and the nightswatch that the overall threat is the WW and the NK and it was the rest of the characters who didn't believe it and were concerned over family conflicts and the throne.
Marissa's the saving grace for this discussion. I lost count on how many times I said "YES! exactly! thank you!" during this video lmao
I COMPLETELY agree. She is the voice I most appreciate.
Just because she agrees with you? It would be best to appreciate both side than to pick one and fight the other
Nicholas that's pretty broad and entirely subjective. It's always best to listen, appreciate and learn from all different sides of a discussion rather than perceiving your view as correct and sympathising only with those who share your view.
Marissa: End Game did it right. Long Night didn't.
Dude: Nah, different audiences.
WTF?? MARISSA IS 100% RIGHT!!!!
I would argue they are the same thing though. Marvel End Game was fan service and spectacle. That is exactly what this episode was. That is why fans of older games of thrones (and i guess the books) hate it. Marvel has always been mindless entertainment. GoT has not.
@@naragath2531 Yeah, but Endgame actually managed to have half decent writing and doesn't undermine its series. This undermines all the setup for characters and story since season 1.
@@Miller09095 Getting everyone back through time travel initiated by a rat isn't undermining the series.
Agreed, I'd say the majority of people who watch endgame also watch GOTs. I think the GOT writers were too focused on being unpredictable rather than the Russo Brothers who actually read and respect fan theories.
@@kd3440 I also wonder if budget constraints didnt influence storytelling and production in harmful ways. They couldn't light the episode without adding layers of detail. I bet they didnt have Helm' Deep's budget.
The real Azora Hai was the friends they made along the way.
Leon Xeight it turns out, Azor Ahai was inside of us the whole time
Lmfao awesome.
No no no my friend. Hot pie is Azor Ahai. Clearly he saved the world by telling Arya that The Starks retook Winterfell so she could be there to end the long night. Otherwise, she would have been using her new found skills King’s Landing taking down Cersei. 🤣
Lol
Azora Hai was trans all along. YAAAAAY!!!!
Bran learned that trick from Jojen "My sister carries the blade"
Greenseers are the village elders, not the warriors.
Hmm I like that idea. Forgot about Jojen
Didn't thought of it, good catch... no pun intended.
i watched a lot of analysis leading up to this episode. i don't think any of it mentioned this quote.
Thanks to marissa! Explained how I feel for that episode. Finally someone more objective about the episode
So they're objective as long as they agree with you?
@@georgeleinberger8670 them (the guys) still pretty much stick with with their opinion (I'm ok with it- everybody entitled with their opinion) n I'm more into Marissa's side, so yeah it's good now the review feels more objective for me bcoz there's another opinion and more like me ( not liking the episode) ... So?do you have any prob with this now? Leave me alone. Thanks
@@georgeleinberger8670 lol that's pretty much what OP's saying. This person agrees with me so we have to be right. Nah fam doesn't work that way
I think GoT was really hurt by missing 7 episodes the past 2 seasons.
And you can clearly tell why. They just didnt want to come up with well written and content filled episodes.
So they basically cut the half out of it, to focus on major moments and they even fucked that up.
They really dont care anymore at this point about the key ingridient of this show.. The writing !
@@prettyboyg1278 Yep, they were in a hurry to move onto other projects. They should have stepped down and let someone else finish the show so it could have been done right. They left so much content out, and stories. They easily could have done 10 seasons here. It's not like they were hurting for money or the show was losing popularity, they just wanted to do something else.
Yup.
I've heard for years now that the iron throne doesn't matter, only the great war matters. Now I'm supposed to care about the iron throne again, and I kinda don't.
That Tommy West Right?!?! Two episodes this season of reunions and talking..and episode 2 was great b/c most of our favorite characters weren't going to survive...until they survived.
Then don't watch. That simple.
Delacroix Wow, good come-back.
No. Not that simple. I still have love for the characters. I still feel invested in the story. But I am allowed my opinion, and I feel the story has been mishandled. I'm disappointed. And you only get disappointed by those you love or things you were excited for in the first place.
No-one cares either, except the shills.
Remember when Jon and Bran had character arcs that revolved around the white walkers and how easily those arcs were destroyed?
ncblock87 remember how Arya became a master shadow assassin, got training from the greatest killers in the world? Literally the best assassin in Westeros? Jon’s the best warrior, but that doesn’t cut it against the horde. Even dragon fire wasn’t enough was all about the 1 in a million chance, Aryas the only one skilled enough to do it,
@@Ender13123 Youre acting like she was trained for years
Ender13123 are you serious? Can’t be!
@@Ender13123 When did she become the best.... she spent around a year in Bravos. She fought blind with a stick. Got stabbed and did some parkour. Botched two assassinations. Cleaned some bodies and did some sweeping. If they hadn't fucked the story telling then it might not seem so bad, but how she returned to Westeros as an incredible fighter was never shown.
@@Ender13123 Don't forget about her Olympic training too, how else would she be able to jump 30 ft into the air with ease.
Marissa was the real MVP in the conversation XD
You should rename your channel to "Casual Soup". Marissa was on point.
This
7:15 "What do you say to the people who wanted to know more about this character ?"
- Not today.
Chill, we may even get something the next episode. Imo the night king's motivations don't have to be as well explained as the ones the other LIVING characters of the show. He's undead and that sets him apart from all the other characters. Having no emotions he just wants to kill every single human that exists in westeros - that's the reason why he was created by the children of the forest during the war against the first men. That's his backstory and his goals, what do you want more?
He's not some type of cercei who acts out of selfishness and who just wants her family to gain influence and power again. He's just a dead motherfucker trying to kill everyone - no need for big explanations...
@@Legoman123417 Yeah sure, let's make him look like a badass who collects babies, turns them into white walkers, decided to march south to attack the "civilized lands" out of nowhere...and let's be satisfied with that! You honestly feel that what the show gave us about NK and WW is enough? Really?? If I wanted a villain who decides to turn on mankind and kill them all for no reason I'd watch any "Cyborg turns on mankind" movie!! About it being about the throne...Jon (argueably the main character) said serveral times throughout the series that the real threat were the dead...not the hunger for power and for thrones! And fuck! We would always get the throne plot solved! It's obvious! But why not give us a good ending to the WW plot?? Did they go like "Ah, fuck it, let's just end this show and please only part of the fans who like the fight for power side of it!"? Seriously, it's so annoying to make so many people watch this show for so many years just to end it like this...
Exactly, for no reasons, you got it. As I said, he was created by the children of the forest to kill mankind, what kind of other motivations do you expect? Him taking the iron throne? Him being bran? That just ends up in a line of wild theories that would make the show feel like some Homeland, Arrow shitshow with way too many plot-twists.
And btw I'm not denying the fact that he's was built up during the last 8 seasons and that he was the real threat. But that's the point, he isn't anymore as he's been defeated. You can't expect a detailed character arc for someone who doesn't talk, has no emotions and has only one goal. I think they got it just right. We have everything we need to know why he moved south and for me that's enough - I don't want to see him a whole episode just chilling with his army and that's the difference to Tyrion for example. I could watch him talk about life a whole episode (though his plot line has been slightly deminished lately).
But I guess you can not please everyone with the outcome of a show like got. I'm happy that I liked it but I respect your opinion. I'm not forcing you to like it
What else is there to know? He might've been the most boring villain of any show. Hell, even Darth Maul had more personality.
@@DelacroixR6 Exactly, and we expected it not to be that! Game of Thrones has always written excelent characters in the show, why would they kill him before showing us that badass villain could have something more? It's the same as teasing a kid with a candy bar, and when you give it to the kid, the wraping paper is empty!
I was just expecting Bran to tell Theon "We're in the endgame now"
*Turns and stares directly into camera*
I waited for the NK saying, no mans hand can kill me and then Arya materializing out of thinn air.
*hold up hand with index finger up*
I was expecting him to say, everything you did brought you wjere you are.... Back to me!
@@Straydogch spell better
I really think the main problems with the past couple of seasons is that they’re just trying to wrap up the story too fast. This season and season 7 are lacking in episodes compared to the seasons of the past.
I also feel as though they’re trying very hard to kill off the bad guys and the secondary characters as fast as possible while keeping the fan-favorites alive.
The story should dictate who lives or dies not the fans.
The episode was an insult to anybody with a brain, and who were invested in the series.
Well, you shouldn't feel insulted
Cool story bro. “People who don’t agree with me are stupid!” Stop whining FFS
Denis Daly you’re right, but people will attack you for it. This show was still devoting large chunks of time to prophecy as recently as season 7. Melisandre and dany have a discussion about it directly in the dragonstone throne room.
The second episode was literally devoted to characters discussing and anticipating their very likely imminent deaths. The show has leaned heavily into “winter is coming” and “ the Great War is the only war that matters” for seasons now. They tossed it away with hardly any consequences like character deaths / injuries.
Mad respect for Marissa for actually bringing different opinions to the discussion
The only difference she brought was complaining she couldn't see shit cause she fucked it and watched it during the day. Mad props huh
@@shadow3d1 agree. These two are just saying everyone is wrong and it was great.
Surprising they are saying that since theyve said before the white walker origins in the show are stupid
@@shibbyjim prob because they wanna be "experts" and influence opinions. I also saw Arya doing the bidding a mile away and these two are surprised? Like it was so obviously set up from ep1 that Dany & Jon were sure to fail.
William Macleod did you even watch/listen? lol Or were you so mad you guessed? haha
I agree the lack of deaths isn't the problem, the problem is the amount of fake out deaths. These fake outs have been happening since season 7 and they really decrease the quality of the show because it's gimmicky.
Tormond survived a fucking wall falling on him
I thought Tormund had died but actually he just crawled underneath a dumpster
Robert Wilson he ran down the top of the wall to the point where it didn’t collapse, then went down to the next castle I’m sure and got down with berric and the crew. He didn’t fall from the top of the wall
Not one character in the crypts. That entire scene was wasted time.
Yris Lockheart no there were a bunch of people left
I never thought I would type this...but can somebody please time stamp HER discussion?
Nerd soup: "its a red wedding moment"
Red wedding: "Am I a joke to you?"
This stupid episode is no where near the masterpiece that GRRM gave us.
D&D cant come near that in their lifetime.
🤣🤣
Yeah the difference between this and the red wedding is that it was unexpected, but when you watch back you can sense the foreboding.
Also, the red wedding altered the course of the story for many characters. The effects rippled out for seasons to come.
This basically was the opposite. It was a huge build up for a relatively easy ending afterwards. And now that's the story wrapped up without any great consequences for any major characters
This was no way near the red wedding.
I have heard people saying they were really tense when the night king walked to Bran.
I would say that it was pretty obvious he was a goner the moment Dany and Jon was in danger because these writers dont have the balls to kill Sam leave alone Jon and Dany.
This episode was all about last minute saves for the main characters and that was the case with Arya stabbing the night king.
It was too obvious and cliche and nowhere close to the RED WEDDING.
@@geroldht9341 yeah when he was walking over to bran I knew how it would end. I never expected Arya, but I knew the NK would die and the whole army would fall.
At the red wedding i couldn't believe what happened, I was in denial for a while afterwards and was convinced they would come back somehow. Same with Ned 😂 (I was a show watcher first)
It takes away from the argument that "This is more important than our petty squabbles." So, now everyone goes back to the petty squabbles? YOU called them petty squabbles, and now you want me to go die in a war over them. Hmmmmm.
It's an antiwar theme. We fight each other no matter what. So until we have a revolution and civil society then we are like animals and go to war.
@@Shelly-lz9tm that was the point of the white walkers. They were supposed to prove how petty it all was. Now its just back to the same themes for the past 8 seasons. That's not clever no matter how you try to frame it.
Cersei is still a threat, and wants to kill them all. What’re they supposed to do, just call it a day? Even if they decided to stay and settle in the north, which dany would never ever do, that’s not her character, Cersei would still plot their destruction and try to murder them all. Taking her out has to be done. It’s nothing new, this is game of thrones y’all
@@everettclunie3525 no she isn't all dany has to do is fly her dragons over and burn everything or send arya to kill her.
Well technically it was more important, that is why a lot of characters put aside their differences and went to the aid of Winter Fell to fight off the NK. Cersei's greed for power, and selfish decision to stay and not help the living should surely bite her in the ass.
The first four seasons will stand the test of time, these last 4 seasons won't last a year, this is the lost of our generation
Season 6 was also great
@Yris Lockheart "Lost" of our generation.. Like, the TV show Lost, which is infamous for having been hugely popular and beloved but then became a laughingstock because it went to shit in later seasons...
How did Davos survive? Were the wights afraid of his severed fingers?
maybe they thought he was one of them.
He got them some fermented crab. Pretty hard to fight with a hole in their armour.
Denis Daly he may be the one named character outside of the depths that wasn’t repeatedly shown to be in dire peril before a weird edit away.
Finally someone else points it out. Wherever he was hiding, that's where they should have hid the women and children. Nah lets put them in the crypt with a hibernating army. You know nothing Jon Snow.
My biggest gripe was the plot armor. This show has always had stakes, if you made a mistake you died. Putting so many characters in places where they should've died and then saving them everytime was trash. Kill like 2 more of the characters in those situations and the feeling of plot armor goes away and the stakes are there.
They killed off 6 major characters, 2 of whom are view point characters in the books. Some of whom have been in the show from the very start. It was by far the most bloody episode of the show in terms of significant characters dying.
Wiping out main characters get's numb after a while and looses it's significance, but having most of them survive is an unexpected surprise and may yet be to lower the audiences guard for more shocking deaths in the battle(s) to come...
funnily enough the stakes are actuall not as high as you think even in the novels. What happens are red herring where you miscategorize a character when he is not. Even in the novels pretty much the core of characters are still alive and had plenty of plot armor.
I agree the battle could have shown clearer ways of why characters managed to survive (heck, hiding in the top of a tower where the wights can only come up one at a time would explain it) but imo people kind of take the entire this show has stakes thinking too far. Yes, it had some surprises but in actuality, no, very few relevant characters died, heck, at this point in the books it is usually the new characters with a plan you know will die but not any of the old guard.
Dylan Evans with bran the show introduced destiny
Bran was always meant to fall and become the 3 eyed raven etc
So the characters that lived did so because they weren’t meant to die there
The nerd group did cover this, we all expected deaths this episode but sir davos survived wild fire, Jamie survived a dragon, ayra survived an assassin etc over the seasons there's been plot armor but we didn't see it.
Like Beau mentioned in this, it’s bizarre to think that there are three episodes left and the destruction of the army of the dead was pushed to season 8. Season 7 was cut down to 7 episodes in length, instead of the season 1-6 10 episode structure. I don’t think half as many people would be complaining if season 7 was structured like this:
1. “Dragonstone”
2. “Stormborn”
3. “The Queen’s Justice”
4. “The Spoils of War”
5. “Eastwatch”
6. “Beyond the Wall”
7. “The Dragon and the Wolf”
8. An extended episode for “Winterfell” and “A Knight of the Seven Kingdoms”
9. “The Long Night”
10. (Aftermath and prelude to season 8 with Cersei)
Then you could smoothly transition into a final political-based season, without needing as large of a budget with the hype being around the drama, rather than the action and the mythology, whilst giving yourself room to explore the secret mythology if you need to because people won’t be desperate for answers
EDIT: I’m very aware of the budgetary issues that the producers faced in 2017 when making season 7 and the decision to make fewer episodes. This is more of a hypothetical idealistic scenario to help the narrative.
This makes a lot more sense and it seems like this what would’ve happened but they were in a rush to end it. I get it, grrm needs to finish those books
I agree that makes much more sense but I cant imagine how bloated the budget would have had to be. I think that's the big thing people aren't remembering is no matter how big this show gets it will always have had budget limitations.
That would be better but god damn it would still be terrible. Like Cersei is not a good main villain. She’s too weak.
incarser101 (blows up the Great Sept of Baelor and takes the crown for herself - “she’s too weak”). Like Aaron, I’m a big Cersei fan. She’s one of the most complex, cunning and compelling characters on the show, she is definitely not “weak”. You’re crazy if you think that
@@Elcrisso1 I feel shes weak as compared to the NK is what people are saying. She just isn't as scary. Pretty sure one "dracarys" and shes done. She wont be still standing there with a smirk on her face like the NK was. All that wildfire she has is little use against 2 dragons.
I just want to say, watching "Inside the show" with D&D, I don't feel like they had a great idea of what kind of a story they have been making since they passed the books. The way they explain some of their decisions seems very TV executive rather than story teller like George. We've seen it for the last 3-4 seasons.
Anyways, I don't think the whole story surrounding the Night King is done...Bran has to have something else to say. On the other hand, It was disappointing on the deaths. There was too many logical moments for people to die and they faked it. Again, I imagine they'll have a story, but it was definitely disappointing after those first 2 episodes this season.
@@viracocha Don't do this. I'm talking about Sam laying on the floor with whites surrounding him and living, Grey Worm, Brienne, 1 handed Jamie and Pod being on the front lines and surviving.
You're equating that to the magical elements of the show? They are completely unrelated.
I like Bo's suggestion that some people should have just died in the initial charge. It makes sense!! but so far the Night King was a joke and treated as such. Anyways, I don't hate the episode but their Inside the Show segment made me skeptical of their story telling abilities.
@@viracocha prophetic
@@viracocha I'm not arguing that is what they wanted I just dont like the path they took
When Arya killed the next level boss, the only thing missing was a rendition of "Everything Is Awesome".
Now every time I hear Ned say “winter is coming” I can’t help thinking to myself “who cares”.
- "Winter is coming!"
- "Yeah, we'll be alright, Ned." /smurks into the camera the-office-style
😂 Ned must be turning in his grave thinking even I would have survived this if it wasn't for fucking Joffrey!
you know when someone says something the right way and it all just clicks. holy shit it just clicked and i realize now this was all just a white wash of the white walker plot. we were all so pumped and if episode 4 has no explanation and they just start marching towards kings landing ill stop watching
honestly lol
“Winter” is used in many ways, one of which is to signify the Starks themselves. It has never been used to refer to the NK exclusively. Winter came for the NK same as the Freys.
Ice dragon takes down the wall that has stood for thousands of years, but Jon survives it hiding behind a rock and yelling at it. Umm ok.......
It was already bitten half to death at that point by Rhaegal, buddy.
He should have been dead or at least badly burned several times but he's a Targaryen and that kind of magical protection also apparently extends to clothes too, at least for men, as we saw with the Night King.
@@yannickv3948 bro r u serious? What does that have to do with anything if he still is breathing that ice fire
@@yannickv3948 half to death? It was all dead lol
guicho gf yo rewatch the scene, at 1:17:15 of s8e3 he yells Go Go Go! At the dragon, which happens to be defending the godswood, and at that moment Arya runs past the white walker and strikes at the Night King. It was subtle but I think Jon Snow distracted the dragon for Arya to sneak by and assassinate the NK.
Not a huge fan of the episode but there it some potential depth to appreciate.
Maybe George is gauging our reactions before he settles on the specifics of the ending? 😂
That's what I believe, as well.
Ya hes pretty quiet right now
I think so
He did give D&D the major beats of his ending, so take it for what you will. D&D most likely got the idea from GRRM to use Arya as the one to stop the NK.
like he cared before .
Sam did fight a bit, but i'm calling it now: they kept him alive so Jon's heritage gets out.
They kept him alive so he can write the fucking GoT book by the end of this show smfh.
I thought this series was about NOT being like Lord of the Rings. What have they done..
Meh, I guess i was wrong then... Sam should have died then. Sorry Sam. :(
It's not the destination we're mad about. It's the journey they decided to take to get there.
yea that dumb plot in season 7
Wow dude. I love your comment even though i don't agree with you. I love it because that was the comment made by both GRRM and D&D. Not a lot of people seem to remember that comment about how the journey will not be same but the destination would.
@@taz5371 ^ true fan
Yeah love how people think we're mad because it was Arya who killed the NK. I actually love that twist, just not how it was done. This whole episode was a mess. The dothraki charging with regular weapons? The trench behind the army? Bran doing fuck all? I mean they couldn't have him fucking with the NK somehow even it was just having crows swarming him to keep him distracted? Jon playing hide n seek with a dragon? Sam surviving? Davos doing fuck all. And nobody from the A squad dying? Nothing but red shirts and B squad this episode.
I wanted Jon to at least cross swords with the Night King
Exactly! Thank you! This was Jon’s arc. The whole aspect of him not even battling the Night King was so baffling to me
You got me buddy.
That would be the most cliche element from any fantasy story though.
I think it's more suiting that he didn't, because Jon isn't special to the Night King. He only needed Jon to lure a dragon past the wall. After that, he's just another human.
SlyScyther I would disagree bud. Jon’s main mission during this whole series was getting all of Westeros ready to fight the dead. In my opinion, he should’ve been to close the door on the walkers. On your basis of it being to cliche, you could say the same thing in in regards of Sansa getting to take out Ramsey and Arya getting to take Walter Frey. If this really is the end of the Night King, then they really wasted Jon’s arc in my opinion
@@rbsbentley except for the fact that he did gather the forces that defeated the night King. He fulfilled his role. It had nothing to do with having a one-on-one duel with the ice demon.
WTF RED WEDDING MOMENT WHAT I’m just done with the video when you said that
Calm down, friend. Just because you don't agree with them, doesn't mean you have to feel insulted...
@@elyca6329 I know we're talking about fantasy here BUT he's right, it's like comparing the christchurch shooting to the holocaust
@@elyca6329 Saying that this was a "red wedding" moment is literally insulting GoT, its fanbase and the fans of this channel.
My mind cant even comprehend how someone could compare this shitty fanservice moment with the well written and executed storytelling of the red wedding.
Never heard something that stupid in any GoT discussion.
@Yris Lockheart : You are right. I'm amazed how people take everything as a personal insult, if someone just doesn't have the same opinion as them. Like the Nerd Soup crew didn't insult anyone, they had the AUDACITY to like an episode, and it's a sh*tstorm in the comments as if it was a great crime... geez...
@Yris Lockheart exactly so by your logic the holocaust was much worse
You know what else is un-expect... "everything was a dream"
Like a bunch of us though about this end, but we ignore the possibility for the hollywood-esque/fan service/ predictability of the situation.
Apparently unexpected means good in movies and tv these days. It is very sad that it has replaced good writing.
@@viracocha yes!
We know the Night King's origin. What I wanted to know is why now? Why after the Walkers were supposedly gone for 1000's of years are they back now? Is there a correlation to the return of dragons and magic?
What really bothered me was there was no "twist" to the White Walkers. The whole idea of the show is "There is really no Good/Evil everyone is really somewhere in between" but no. The Walkers were just evil.
Exactly. Why now? Because of dragons? Then why not when the Targaryens first arrived in Westeros? Wouldn’t it be more logical if they attacked when there wasn’t any dragons? Why were these guys quiet for 8000 years and now decide to pack up their things and head south? That’s what bothers me.
Revenge. The Children of the Forest created the God of Death. It's a natural consequence that he would bring death to the living. Why are they back now? Someone was willing to sacrifice babies to the NK to create more WWs (craster), as happened with the 13th Lord Commander who ruled at the Night Fort.
I like that answer, but it kinda creates a chicken/egg problem. If there were no Whites, who are you sacrificing to (and for what). If you're sacrificing to the Whites for protection then they're already out and about.
It wasn't just now, the walkers had been active for centuries before the show started. What likely emboldened them, or led to them becoming more successful was the slow extinction of the children of the forest. The children possessed magic, and knowledge that threatened them. Its noted in the books that thousands of years before the children regularly gave dragon glass weapons to the night's watch. Over the centuries this stopped and was forgotten, as the children died out.
I suspect it was originally meant as the children attempted to unleach a primal power by binding it and directing it towards the world of men. But it could not be contained. But if the power is also tied to cycles like its counterpart it only marches south for a Ragnarök clash during times that mark the end of a cycle, where the world is destroyed and renewed.
HBO: what do we say to good writing?
D&D: not today
Lol
Good writing? Everyone just wanted the same cliche shlock.
@@goldfishprime Are you implying that we didn't get the same cliche shlock? In the episode where the good guys get wrecked and manage to win at the very end in some improbably stupid way. In the same episode where the main characters get overwhelmed like 6 separate times but the next time they show them they are totes fine. LMAOOOOOO
that aint it Ann
@@goldfishprime this ain't it chief
this battle was no where near BotB and hardhome
$356 Million - 3 hours Endgame budget
$240 Million - 8 hours Big Bang Theory season budget
$90 Million - 7.5 hours Game of thrones season 8 budget
Incredible Action Sequence Considering...
First time ive disagreed with nearly everything said. They jumped to the defence of every bad writing choice in the episode.
Btw I did not mean this maliciously at all! I love the videos guys! Its just the first time ever I found myself disagreeing with you
@Duolingo Owl no they must get called out its pathetic
James Highcock pass
I don't understand how anyone could be happy that petty human conflict is now the overarching story of this show. It takes importance away from so much of what we've seen.
DeanRTaylor the importance of what we’ve seen? What does that mean. I feel like this show has been all about the human conflict. It’s not petty when it involves the characters we’ve all grown so attached to the entire series. It wasn’t petty when dany sailed across the narrow sea to end season 6, or when she rained fire on the Lannister’s and tarlys during the spoils of war episode. It was epic. Why is that a problem now? Game of thrones has never been LOTR, and I’ve never wanted it to be. I thought more people wanted something different. But turns out everybody just wants fucking return of the king 2.0, with Jon snow throwing a flaming fucking sword through the night kings chest to end the show. I guess I just don’t get why everybody’s upset. Game of thrones was never supposed to be the prototypical good vs evil story, so it’s not a surprise it went down the way it did.
@@everettclunie3525 This episode was return of the King 2.0 that's the problem and the battle and action is the only positives people are taking away from it. Pretty much the whole of the last season is meaningless. The white walkers taking babies to convert. All of the forces coming together. The first two episodes of this season, the whole battle where they made out the threat was so serious when it clearly wasn't as people would be overwhelmed and then walk away. All the mythology and talk of the long night or winter is coming. Watch the previous seasons back, if they wanted the politics to be the main purpose of the season there is almost no reason to have the white walkers involved. Dany could have just taken each city by force with her dragons. If they didn't try to prove to cersi the whites existed, they wouldn't have taken down the wall with the dragon.
Seasons 1-5: These characters are normal people and almost anyone might die.
Seasons 6-8: These characters are superheroes.
I’d Say just 7-8,
I mean they killed Margaery and Tommen without hesitation
@@TheMurrmursonbottle Pretty much, since season 7 deaths of "good" characters included Olenna Tyrell, Thoros of Myr, Benjen Stark, the Sand Snakes & ostensibly their mother Ellaria Sand (not sure if she's dead), and Dickon Tarly (not so much his father Randyll, who was a dick). The "bad" characters who died were Littlefinger and the Freys. I guess Dany's dragon Viserion counts as a dead "good" character.
It's like they SORT OF should be to a sense, they have a god on their side and prophecies to fulfill, but the writers threw all that shit out the window so yeah.
And how many main/big characters died in all these seasons in big battles? That's rhetoric! More main characters died on the loo than in any battle! 🙄 Which means you just want the show to be cookie cutter fantasy in which the big characters die heroic fighting the big bad evil instead of being GOT in which a hall is more dangerous for main characters than a battle field. I guess you ignore the whole House Tyrell that didn't die on any battle field in the last few seasons 🙄
@@Adrasteia__
Yes. Yes. Yes! The last "main" death wasn't even on a battlefield, but during a moment of pure stupidity. But yes! Jon's death too was political rather than an actual war.
Completely agree with Marissa.
This episode was horrible. For the whole episode Bran goes for a fly and just comes back to watch theon die. They just threw away the dothraki and the unsullied. We couldn't see anything 80% of the episode. The night king popping up threw the clouds like a dam jack in the box. All the main characters having soo much plot armor. Beau, Arya killing the night king is no where close to the red wedding, people actually died at the wedding. How did arya get around the night king's generals when they were directly behind him. You guys sound like GoT apologists defending every bad writing decision. This episode really ruined this season for me.
Don't forget the biggest atrocity from this episode... NO ICE SPIDERS BIG AS HOUNDS.
Sigh I wanted those ice spiders big as hounds.
Hang on ... in one scene eye-spied-a-hound ... Ice Spider Hound. Done.
Where was Zombie Hodor riding an ice spider
I felt like Cersei with the elephants. I really wanted that. And maybe wight direwolves or other animals.
When the dothraki rushed to death and crashed into the giant. I first thought it was a mammoth.
Cersei should have been dealt with last season. Season 8 should have all been about the unstoppable apocalypse that's been teased for the last 8 years and building a better world when it's defeated.
What would have been cool is if Bran fought the NK inside the weirwood net and starts dismantling it from the inside, simultaneously taking away the NK's powers he gets from there, his greensight, warging abilities, storm summoning, whatever else he can do. Bran ends up sacrificing himself inside the weirwood net because he's taking away his own powers as well and it traps him in there, but he helps the people in the real world deal with a much less powerful NK, then Jon is actually able to take him out, that woulda been good.
Brans whole journey has been pointless, why did he need to become the new 3ER? What help was he other than bait? What happened to Benjen telling him, he will find his way to the world of men, and when he does, you will be waiting for him, and you will be ready....waiting for him in what way? In a wheelchair under a tree?
But let's take a step back, battle tactics, terrible from the start, catapults in front of your trench, charging light cavalry head first with (until Mel magically appears) standard weapons, why not hold them in reserve to hit from behind when the wights hit the unsullied wall. Why not have multiple trenches, why not have choke points inside WF....The wights come in like a tidal wave at the start, we have Brienne, Jamie, Pod, Gendry, Jorah, The Hound, Sam, Edd, Tormund, Grey Worm all on the front line, and all of them survive that massive wave, yeah ok. When Jon is on his own, they go back to being slow, mindless zombies. Then they go back to being nuts when they're swarming Drogon. I lost count of how many times someone got swamped only to be saved randomly or have the camera cut away then cut back and they be fine.
The WW did nothing this episode, and we learnt nothing more about them, nothing, it feels all the mystery, prophecy, history is just, gone, from 1 cheap stab in the stomach. If you wanted to show how badass Arya is, have her fight a couple of WW, not take out this supernatural leader when he's at the high of his powers after her plot has had zero connection to him throughout. I can't accept that Cersei is the last big bad and everyone goes back to the petty human wars that has always happened. It should be more.
This show made its name and popularity on the fact it was realistic and if you fucked up, you died, nobody was safe. This is just complete, unoriginal, fanfiction bullshit at this stage.
Samphaa7 great post
not true, GRRM said that he hates big battles where good wins. This was GRRMs plan from the beginning, they defeated the nk but now they still have to go on and continue fighting mundane battles for the throne.
It wasnt believeable when she took the throne..there's no way the southron Lord's would accept a woman queen unless she has dragons
@@moneybags4270 Even more so after she blew up the sept and killed however many people lol
If the night king killed everyone in winterfell it would have been crazy. Like no reverses like marvel but like actually slaughter anyone who didn’t escape like Arya through faceless men skills, dany and Jon flying with whoever they can get with them.
Cersei is just a B Villain now after all the hype for the Night King
it's funny that i keep hearing people say that the night king was the b villain and that cersei is the true villain.
she has always been the main villain to me.
@@CustomTies There's nothing that she can do logically that can beat the. Bran can now her whereabouts at all times. Arya can just assassinate her.
Right !? Even Tywin could not take her serious
"just because they didn't know what was going on didn't mean we didn't have to know what was going on" take it to the barn Marissa
You can tell when she has a point when they just laugh her off and don’t answer it
Jonathan Conk It’s pretty fucking annoying. Why bring her on your podcast if you can’t handle her opinions?
Or make a dumb little joke
@@Kurdtzdopelgangr What podcast were you listening to? They agreed and disagreed with her - that's what having a conversation is.
Peter Babicki This one. Did you actually listen? They were dismissive about many of her opinions they didn’t agree with.
@@Kurdtzdopelgangr I didn't get that from them.
Marissa: *Makes a good point*
The others: *quick laugh*
The others: *quickly change subject*
So much rationalizing.
the night king deserved a season
It's not about theories/predictions being wrong, IT IS about the storytelling. When you dedicate the VERY FIRST SCENE of the show to this threat, have characters and producers alike announcing for years how the white walkers are the ReAL tHREat and build them up for the entire show, only to have them killed of in a scene that that looked nothing short of ridiculous? You people will eat up everything, lol
they could at least showed how arya managed to sneak on the night king. He was surrounded by walkers and wights, she should not be able to reach him just by running (maybe she disguise herself as one of them, i guess)
Guys! No one died because Gendry crafted something extra special...
PLOT ARMOR!!
Hahaha you are so original and funny lol pls marry my daughter (0/10 copy paste)
@@momo1177 I didn't. Did somebody copy and paste me?
The battle plan was really dumb. They needlessly sacrificed the dothraki. Why the army was outside the castle is beyond me. I actually watched a medieval channel talk about what they should do (in terms of battle tactics) right before the episode aired, and they did everything opposite of what they should've done. I really thought all 6 episodes were going to be dealing with the night King, and was immensely disappointed with how it was dealt with in just 1 episode. Very anticlimactic.
The chick in this discussion is the only person who’s looking at this as a story and not just mindlessly loving GoT for GoT. It’s okay to like bad things; hell, I like the Star Wars prequels. I know they’re bad, but like them anyway. Just know the difference between liking something, and defending it as a good story.
I am so grateful for Marissa's perspective. She definitely brought more balance to the conversation.
Thank god for Marissa. I really appreciate her bringing a different perspective. I also appreciate you guys listening to us and addressing the real issues with this episode. Acknowledging some of the faults with the episode doesn't mean you can't also enjoy it and like the direction that the show is going in. In the last video it felt like you two were ignoring or straight up defending the faults that you are now acknowledging.
I think rewatching the episode and reading feedback has allowed them have a more balanced perspective. I think alot of people got caught up in the hype of the first viewing and once that wore off you were able to see the cracks/flaws.
The whole 'Cersei should be final villain in the show' idea is so stupid. Politics? What politics, we have Euron and Cersei on one side and the rest of the characters on the other side(maybe Jaime could realistically turn). In the first 3 seasons (when GoT politics were interesting) we had plenty of different sides(war of the FIVE kings) + players like Littlefinger and Varys. And characters were still evolving and growing back then.
Now everything is set. Unless we get more 'politics' like Arya vs Sansa from last season, or the Dorne coup, those were masterpieces indeed.
Next episode should just be OP Arya walking up to Cersei and killing her.
Dam that once extremely rare plot armour was rarer than Valerian Steel. Now their slapping a suit of it on everyone. Maybe Gendry figured out how to smith it instead of Valerian Steel?
Rewatch the episode,Jon and Arya planned the Night King’s demise. You can hear him telling her to go, just before the wind blow lightly through the Walkers’ hair, 😂
Few complaints
:The long nights finally here, and now it's gone
:Jon doesn't even cross swords with nightking
:Too much plot armour
:Arya out of nowhere with the trampoline jump
:For 7 seasons "the real wars to the north beyond the wall" Season 8 "actually cersei's the real threat"
: Seriously how the fuck are Brienne, Jamie, podrick, Sam, and greyworm even alive.
The Night King, undead for thousands of years, killing and reanimating all in his path. Extremely observant, able to pinpoint the 3-eyed raven anywhere (including warg state). Killed a massive dragon with one javelin throw. Basically, overpowered to fuck.
Killed by the ol' switcheroo.
MMA Dispatch so regarding Arya. No one asks where Batman comes ftom. No, because he’s a ninja. Don’t ask questions about Arya’s ninja skills
The Night King was never a swordsman. Why would he expose himself in that way? He knew how vulnerable he was which is why he stayed away.
how the fuck is anyone still alive. They showed the whole castle beeing overrun by literally uncountable numbers of weight over and over again. But on monday we will learn that enough survived to fight another war. Logic left the show about 2 seasons ago.
@@laurenlegato7506 if he's not a swordsman then why has he even got a sword, not like he needs it to kill bran, and he's so vulnerable that he falls out the sky and is fine then just stands there to get blasted by dragon fire, which btw bran said no one's tried before so how does the nk know that won't kill him.
The battle tactics were dreadful and the defences too. Dothraki should’ve attacked the undead from the flanks, there needed to be multiple lines of trenches so that the wights could be slowed down. Dragon glass pikes should’ve been placed at the bottom of the walls whilst the walls themselves should’ve been coated in dragon class shards. The dragons should’ve been doing strafe runs on the front rows of the wight army rather than the middle of it.
Ghost should’ve been in the crypts or should’ve sacrificed himself to distract Viserion so Jon could get to Bran and the NK. Jon is easily knocked back by the NK but is left alive to watch Bran die. Then Arya swoops in.
Before all this though, the White Walkers should’ve had at least a small battle as they passed through Winterfell. Maybe Podrick (lol) breaks through a line of wights and kills a WW before getting slaughtered by another. Greyworm should’ve been wounded. Personally, the NK should’ve been poised to throw a spear at Drogon as soon as the flames cleared, smirking. Then Greyworm throws a spear at the NK, misses but distracts him enough that Dany escapes. Then the NK spears Greyworm instead.
Thats just a few things that would’ve improved the episode i think.
Attack from the flanks when your outmanned and in complete darkness.... Good luck with that
@@bradwinstanley6290 bro, they died immediately charging into the darkness.
Maybe HBO should have hired you. NOT!!!
@@iloveyourunclebob iT wAs ThE oNlY wAy
@@bradwinstanley6290 people seem to think that a few thousand people can stop millions with point objects. Yeah we will flank them and get destroyed on a flank instead.
I'm supposed to be excited about "the real battle vs Cersei" when OP Arya can just walk up to her and kill her?
@@viracocha
My point is that Arya's ability to teleport takes away any suspense the show had.
Melisandra reminding us about the brown, green, blue eyes thing took away the surprise for me. Also Bran's whole ability to warg into people seems to be a chekov's gun that wasn't used unless you count the hold the door scene.
It basically felt like Hermione killing off Voldemort in Book 4 right after he fully came back; the guy who was hyped up from book 1. And then they go back battling Malfoy giving the explanation that they were in the limelight more than Voldemort and they are the big boss.
It sounds like they are going through 5 stages of grief for how awful that episode was
there still stuck in the denial phase. Im in the anger phase and i doubt i will ever reach acceptance.
Now that I think about it, Arya has now killed 3 villains. Walder Frey, Little Finger, and now the Night King. Is she a janitor? She killed the one who murdered her family(justified), the one who started the game and the best one at playing it(justified), and now the Night King(I felt this was unjustified, kind of wanted either Dany or Jon to have this kill). Makes it seem like the showrunners are killing good villains with Arya because they have no clue what you do with them. She's pretty must the janitor because the show runners don't know how to create better dialogue/conflict/story with these villains with no book or script to base it on.
I thought of Arya as vengeance (for the Starks) her list, Frey and Family, Trent, and Little Finger. I agree. If Arya killed the NK then I would have expected NK to have killed Jon and\or Bran to continue the character arch of revenge.
Okay what kind of “politics” are these people excited for? It is WAR people!!! There hasn’t been good politics since Tyrion, Varys, and Tywin were in Kings Landing. Are you really expecting me to watch 4 hours of Cersei “plotting” with the Mountain who doesn’t even speak? Or watching Sansa “plot” for the throne? The only thing Sansa has to plan are new blueprints for her demolished home.
Exactly
The issue with the idea of "getting back to politics and the game of thrones", is that you're doing with only 3 episodes left in the series, 1 of which may be a filler. If getting back to the politics was priority, why not get rid of the Night King army sooner and focus the entire final season on the quest for the Iron Throne?
Ep3 was like 2 episodes in one.
Think it'll depend on how ep4-6 gonna play out. Episode 4 is as long as this one, so it shouldn't be just a filler.
I still love this show but in my opinion People who say “got the NK and WW storyline out of the way now back to the politics” bothers me because why introduce them in the first place? First 6 seasons were all about the politics while the NK and WW were lurking in the back with minor cameos and references, which was fine with me personally because i was really intrigued about it, and I had the mindset that they were going to put all the focus on them for the last 2 or at least the last season of the show since they were the shortest seasons. It’s a good episode not my favorite, Hardhome is still #1 for me
Hopefully it won't be filler. However I still believe 3 episodes is not enough to introduce politics, considering the show needs to wrap up. I love the politics and thought it was some of the best writing the show has had. I think it will feel rushed
I love how the term "long night" is still in use...
It should be known as the average evening
Mildly annoying and cold sunset
"one Cloudy Dusk"
A light breeze
@@aghazi94 A light chill is coming. New house stark words
Is nerd soup some kind of gas you guys huff?
for what this episode should have been, it was underwhelming yeah, i expected more main characters deaths, defientely don't like Arya being the one closing Jon's problem since he got to the wall... and what was the point of briging Jon back and keeping Bran around if it all came down to an Arya's shank to the ice gut, and totally agree with if this was gonna be episode 3 then the first 2 episodes are a waste.
@Shizzle Nizzle Yes but do something else other than tap out for the whole episode haha
Marissa spoke facts. I love these guys, but she had the most logical arguments.
She was asking some great questions
She is a class above the rest
@@moyo5509 - Exactly.
@@goodyear3656 - She was.
Like many have stated before people fell in love with Game of Thrones because it generally had minimal plot armor and realistic consequences. And this was the “ long night” a humanity ending moment and they turned it into a lord of the rings battle might as well had Jamie and Tormond counting zombie kills trying to woo Brieane over
At least there Gimli and Legolas are literal fighting lords. Some of the toughest for centuries or for Legolas thousands of years training. Fucken Jaime has one hand and trained a bit with Bronn lol
Yeah if Arya used a shield to snowboard down a flight of stairs while shooting arrows at white walkers we would be having a different conversation
I apologise to Marissa for criticising her in the past about petty stuff (like using the word "dope" Unironically). At least she has high standards.
I actually found your review and subsequent discussion to be one of the best I've watched.
CERSEI KILLED MORE CHARACTERS BLOWING UP THE SEPT THAN THE NIGHT KING DID BRINGING WINTER.
@earth ocean
no its numbers smartass
The Long Night killed.. 6
Edd, Qhono, Lyanna, Berric, Jorah, Theon. Mel doesn't count she killed herself after the war was won. Even if you do count her that's only 7.
Cersei's Trial killed.. 8
Margery, Mace & Loras Tyrell, Kevan & Lancel Lannister, Pycelle, High Sparrow & Tommen
@John Jaxson Tommen killed himself. The Night King killed 5 or 6 characters
Night King: Three Eyed Raven, Theon, Viserion
White Walkers: Royce’s son, one off Hardhome characters, Jojen, Hodor, Leaf, Summer, Benjen, Thoros, Ned Umber, Edd, Lyanna Mormont, Beric, Jorah
Cersei: Pycelle, Kevan, Lancel, Bell Lady, High Sparrow, Loras, Mace Tyrell, Margaery, Tyene
@@nompho7820 tommen killed himself as direct result of Cersei's actions if she hadn't blown the Sept he wouldn't have killed himself. She might as well have let him attend the trial it'd have been the same result. She killed him.
Lol
Visually 10/10, story wise, 5/10. The best and most disappointing episode they've done.
Yeah, but when you realize how much those visuals are for looks over logic, and makes the plot armor look even worse, kind of drops it to a 7/10 for me
couldnt agree more
If I could see the screen better, it would have been better visually.
And while I understand they were setting the mood with showing the flaming blades of the dothraki go out, I would have preferred watching the dothraki fight and fall myself. Yeah, the battle would have lasted three minutes, but it would have been an awesome three minutes to watch. It would have been visually compelling storytelling.
Alex visually 10/10? What did your guide dog rate it ?
The NK should have beat all of the main characters back to the godswood where they had a final fight and stand with John fighting the NK defending Bran, kill a bunch of WW and characters, Bran does *something* all is lost.....
.
When suddenly Arya ninja assassins the NK saving Westeros just as John is about to die or something. You could even have the whole NK catching her in the air and her doing the same knife trick!!! Damn... So much wasted....
Something other than what we got... Come on.
Thats the most basic typical fairy tail ending you could imaging. Going completely against the subverting of fantasy tropes GoT is all about. If you were expecting this then you werent watching the right show
@@davidgambirazio3350 sure beats comic book ex-machina shit that they only realized in season 6!!! They even told us they came up with Arya killing the NK 3 years ago which is in season 6. Possibly after that as 3 years ago would be between season 6 and 7. She was never part of the NK story arc and her becoming a faceless man and her training had Jack to do with it. People are seeing 'foreshadowing' where there actually was none. 😆
Smh... You don't watch much fantasy do you? What they gave us was basic Avenger comic superhero shit, not Game of Thrones. Plot armor abounded everywhere. Thats NOT GoT. The repeated stupid shit characters do like putting everyone in the damn crypt!!! THATS NOT GOT!!!!
Ffs... They hardly killed anybody as it was and you think THAT is GoT? Gtfo of here... 😆
Heck, Kit Harrington said he was pissed at this decision. 😆
I've not read 1 single GoT book and even I can see how bad the writing became after they got ahead of the books.
The issue I have is that the first two episodes were extremely slow, almost nothing happened, not even a battle plan was made. Then it seemed a rushed war that lasted half a night. Instead of filling time and stretching those minutes, they could've started the war at ep2 and ended it at 3. I expect ep4 will be just another filler episode with chaotic clips of one character talking to another, with no substance. It's just a waiting game for the story and nothing happening.
Not exactly great story telling. I don't know how it goes in the books (only started listening to the audio books now), but the whole Jon can't decide between his sisters and Dany thing doesn't make sense either. Dany is the only reason they're alive. She is obviously the queen for them. Sansa needs to stop and realise how much she owes to Dany. But nah. I guess it makes good drama but it's not very realistic. If someone saved my life as many times as Dany has, I would keep myself close to her and grateful.