Honda S2000 Blows Up First Day of Ownership - Here's What We Found
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 21 ก.ค. 2021
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You pointed out an obvious lack of maintenance by previous owners. I'm gonna guess they treated it like a Honda and drove it like a Porsche. Don't change the oil often, put the cheapest oil possible in it, then beat up on it. Lack of proper oil changes will kill any engine, it just took longer to kill this engine. They probably ran it out of oil at least once.
Pretty sure the s2000 has FRM liners in them. They have a higher hardness in them vs iron cylinder walls. Just keep in mind when machining. Also a lot of people go with iron sleeves to get rid of the FRM. Pistons have a special skirt coating for the FRM vs a Iron cylinder wall.
You are right they are frm and nobody will hone these cylinder need special stone and procedure most machine shop just don't have the tool to do it and they cost a lot
you need steel sleeves with forged piston or use mahle piston for the stock frm cylinder
Exactly . And you don't open the stock engine unless you're exceeding 600 +
That's why you should never race on garage queen cars without changing every fluid in there.
This wasn't a garage queen, it was ran hard and put away wet.
Build the motor, ready for turbo, but leave it N/A until he wants the turbo. Then its just a bolt on :)
That not how f20/f22 works...
Stronger clutch also says very much 'I was turboed at some point'
There is a reason why it's there. Turboed, now turbo gone, 2d rebuild etc, and only 170K km?
Yes, common in my country too, turboed cars get converted to stock and sold... before they go bang 😄
@@VladoT I mean at least a compression/leakage test should be performed before the sale. My 2p.
More than likely the oil level ran low multiple times because AP1’s like to burn oil. You can drop the whole engine and trans in 3-4 hours. People with 11k rpm engines are still using stock crank, rods and bearings. Not sure what you’re thinking about upgrading but EVERY major S2K builder uses OE bearings.
...and with the ovaled cylinder walls, burning oil was definitely something this individual engine likely did to excess. I concur, oil ran low from even just one time not being diligent about checking oil, and in this engine was instantly doomed to a drastically shortened lifespan.
can't wait for the bore being machined for oversized piston and measuring all the new tolerances, you gotta make these engine rebuild videos more often, especially these famous engines
That SEC AMG in the back looks beautiful
I'd suggest not loosening bolts with your torque wrench, they're made for torqueing. Use a long breaker bar, it's name is it's description.
...and it appears they didn't follow the service manual procedure for how to loosen head bolts, which calls for loosening each one gradually. In the portion of video where torque wrench used as breaker bar, you see them just grabbing handfuls of ratcheted degrees of lefty loosey, without any effort to measure how far its being loosened. This can damage the head.
There isn't a lot of success rebuilding these motors. A handful of specialist shops have been able to do it, and even those have very mixed results. I'm hopeful, but realistic, about the term results that will be achieved here.
I have built big blocks, 4 bangers
Aluminum, steel block and heads without any problem of warping heads when removing head bolts.
This non sense of 'sequence is an ill thought.
Those are FRM liners. You can’t bore those sleeves. You really need to read up on these motors.
You should have disassembled the two block halves in the opposite order of assembly. You need to check the two block halves for flatness because its likely bent now.
You are right for the liner but the block base it ok they don't warp this easily
@@legros731
How many F20/F22’s have you rebuilt?
Who does your machine work?
@@michaellecompte1889 I live in canada its impossible to find someone willing to do it a can't even find someone to sleeve a b18c
A never rebuilt a f20 but a rebuilt many honda engine its my job
And you how many did you rebuilt?
But what it have to do with block half being warped
@@legros731 hi Simon,
I’m in the process of doing a stock rebuild on a f20 that had a timing gear failure. The pin that holds the two piece gear together broke and the gear chewed aluminum on the valve cover and front of the cylinder head. No valves bent and there was no contact between the valves and pistons.
The engine never failed, but aluminum dust was sent through the entire oiling system. Fortunately the stock 2 layer bearings were very forgiving and soaked up the aluminum particles and all of the journals look great.
I followed the Honda service manual and disassembled, the cam caps, cylinder head and lower block as recommended so as to not warp those pieces.
The clamping loads on the fasteners in the F20 are reaaaly high. Ive rebuilt 2jz, 1uz and other toyota 4 and 6 cyls and never seen fasteners torqued to such an extreme.
@@michaellecompte1889 weird failure never heard of this one on a f20c good luck with the rebuilt 👍
what you think is extreme torque?
A torque all my head stud at 100lbs/ft on my built b18c vs the 65ft/lb stock spec if you don't want to blow the head gasketor lift the head in high boost
At least build the engine to be able to be turbocharged
@@moustachio334 who said pump gas?
Noobs
I suspect it has had a headgasket failure and they left abrasive grit in bores and oil ways after cleaning block surfaces.
It was from 9 grand hole shots.
High rpm and lack of maintenance kill these engine
9000rpm will do this to your sleeve the integra type R suffer the same problem
When you do the video for the C63, can you go over how you did the setup before you machined? Curious how you approach the V-Bank when boring the cylinders.
While it's open you HAVE to put beefier rods and pistons, just in case.
I totally get you might want lower comp pistons for a serious turbo build but a mild turbo setup might go with pistons that are ok also for NA.
IIRC the stock s2k internals are forged too.
Very interesting experience, since you bored the block inhouse how have you proceeded compared to a normal engine?
I'm asking this cause I'm currently rebuilding my F22C but I don't know if I can trust anybody for the machining work or I MUST find someone who knows exactly how to deal with FRM cylinders.
Teach us how to measure cylinder bore with bore gauge? :D
Make sure to show the vlogs on the boring of the cylinders. I love seeing stuff in detail.
Always wanted a S2000 but too expensive... Also, that outro is the same as OffBeatGarage's.
Great video 👍Tasos says sleeving Mercedes engine corrects the V angle on the block, you could upgrade ECU in the Honda to a programmable one.
On a FWD vehicle, how well would casters in the rear improve mobility? (Assuming that you restrict their maximum arc of rotation, add damping so that they don't flutter and wobble erratically, and give them a method of automatically re-aligning themselves to center.)
Preferably, the system in question should be entirely passive.
Super charge, Turbo charge the S2000. Wanna see more power
No! Do a monster NA build. 13.5:1 CR, ITBs big cams
@@1one3_Racing agreed!
FI builds are getting really long in the tooth. Building NA power isn't easy at all.
@@TheRobphobos because it's not cost effective. Spend 10k+ on an N/A build to maybe make 100hp over stock or spend $5k and make minimum twice the stock power output with "no" limits
Seems like there would be a high chance of either low oil pressure, long intervals or incorrect oil weight considering the cylinder wear too. turbo OEM f20s can comfortably handle double the factory power with good boost control, but machining the FRM lining will be a pain. Might be better to get your hands on a complete f22 bottom end.
Your only real option is to get with a machine shop that'll put sleeves in for you. A lot of Honda specific companies have services online where you can send in your block and they'll fit the sleeves and deck it and return it to you ready for bore and hone for whatever pistons you chose to run.
At the very least I’d upgrade the internals of the Honda engine so that you can put on a turbo later.
A stock f20c is forged internal already..
@@derekyam1805 true, but still we can put in a better set of internals.
There’s no need for better internals unless you want 600+ hp. Be prepared for a very expensive build if you want to build. sleeves, pistons, rods and machine work will set you back $5k.
Internals can handle 700whp. Stock.
Turbo FTW. Biggest hurdle handling all that added engine bay heat
Any opinions on whether the Launch x431 line can do bidirectional control like Star? I believe it can but wanted some feedback. My application would be an 04 E55.
Also I just realized the ad content was more interesting to me than the main video content. Ha.
I'm sure if you guys are doing the machining you will also hot tank the block and head but I cannot stress enough that you will likely have to clean all of the oil passages separately. Otherwise I've seen motors be right back on the engine stand after break-in.
It needs just small, clean supercharger install. Up, through the bonet should charger go
Does anyone know what software he uses to model his cars? Like his e55 and that f1 project.
Awesome video, i tried your link, code doesn't work for OBD reader.
Going from the upgraded clutch and the engine damage, this car had probably several bolt on performance mods installed and was driven hard and then put back to stock for selling it. The clutch was left in because that probably took more effort than they wanted to do. Anyway, a nice giant turbo upgrade wouldn't look bad in that engine bay. But even if he wants to keep "stock" power for now, upgrading all the internals of the engine is still the smart way to go. It doesn't hurt the engine, it will only make it better and you already have it disassembled at the moment, saves another "engine out" later on. Idk much about the S2000 but wouldn't strengthening the transmission in the meantime be a smart thing to do for a future big power turbo upgrade? Or can the stock transmission handle it?
Stock internals in this motor are pretty good (forged crank and rods) and it has a pretty high compression ratio if you want to go turbo (I wouldn't) it would be best to chose some pistons that would lower it?
If you're building the engine, you may as well build it for a turbo. Just a light boost like 5-10psi.
Your friend is totally right, this S2000 is way much better than the unreliable Eurotrash that you r dealing with.
will you be putting back the frm coating on the s2000 cylinder wall ?
Yeah actually if you are rebuilding a F20C, rebuilding with stock internals IS a thing you do. There are a multitude of reasons why.
They’re pretty bullet proof.
@@alexkatsikas4151 yes but the frm liner are a bitch better stay stock or you go all out sleeve the block it the only way to go if you want to use forged piston
@@legros731 they can be honed fine. You can hone them to +0.25mm without a problem (provided you hone them correctly for FRM)
@@legros731 this link has the pages straight from the Honda bulletin on how it’s meant to be done. Sunnen also have a process for doing it, you hone with 400grit diamond stones and go over to a diamond paste (I would suggest talking to a sunnen rep about it for the exact procedure)
honda-tech.com/forums/honda-prelude-4/how-have-frm-honed-2476019/?fbclid=IwAR1lCJFJfipXFNORjPn8YQsd698iSCner3tpRQ7Z_EaYUJsoftQSGd0WX04
@@alexkatsikas4151 a did not say it not possible but try to find somebody with the right tool is easier said than done and you still need to use none forged mahle piston
Keep it stock and under 600hp and it will hold up just fine anyway the weak link is the diff and tranny not the engine even at 500/600hp better keep a couple of diff and tranny on the shelf
Install internals for later turbo installation and add necessary fittings for return lines. Plug n play next time
So street races the car hard without doing an oil change on the first day of ownership or doing an health check.... yeah....
Turbo the car. You can always keep the boost low like it is n/a and turn it up when you are ready. You are going to do it anyway. Now is better so you don't have to do all that work over .saves times and money
Do some Dexion shelving and get a tiny pedestrian forklift. You can buy it second hand for not very much and you'll love your shop a lot more. Second hand electric pedestrian forklifts got for under $2000 and they'll lift 500kg up to 6m no problem. Plenty for storing engines and transmissions
The f1 build is it still ongoing?
this usually happens if previous owners had it boosted on stock internals and then swapped it back to stock NA before selling it. unless its done really high ks of course.
Don't you see how brown the engine internal was this engine got really poor maintenant and a hard life at 9000rpm
What do you mean you dont need a turbo? 240hp isnt that much, my fwd golf has 160 and thats pretty easy to handle. Turbo it to around 280/300 if possible and smoke them miatas :D
Or if you rly wanna keep it stock just upgrade the parts so when you grow old of it in a month you can just throw in a turbo
Is the oil pump okay on that thing?
never seen that 1-pieve main bearing cap set-up.
I'd say don't turbo it but build the internals so that if you want to turbo it it's easy to do so. Worst case the engine is more reliable
Please use a block plate torqued in place before boring it out too!
That C63 Engine.....are the cylinders treated or coated with some procedure?
Those engines don't like cheap oil or oil changes above 25000 km . I think the previous owner went to rough on it (high revs at cold start) and was to lazy or to stingy to change oil at the right time .
These a frm cylinder you can't put forged piston in these you need steel sleeve or use mahle piston if you keep the frm sleeve
And you need special stone and a different procedure to bore the stock frm cylinder vs conventional steel sleeve
The f20 cyl sleeve is coated with some ceramic component. How people do to rebore de block?
Need special.stone and procedure and almost no machine shop will do this work they will tell you to sleeve the block with steel sleeve and use forged piston
I don't understand the idea of going force induction on this.
*BUT* boring it out with iron sleeves, cutting an aggressive camshaft, using stiff valve springs, light connecting rods, porting the head and going to see what happens beyond 10000 rpm, that sounds like a program!
This JUST happened to me! Dropping a motor in as I speak!
I'm 6'4" and I cannot fit in a Miata with a hardtop and the steering wheel is pinching my leg so I can fit in a S2000 Allot better. Still would build a Kart out of a wrecked Miata if I had the space.
You can build the engine and keep it stock power. Working with the frm sleeves is not worth it
5:25 Wait,
So it's a DOHC is for low to moderate RPM, but for higher RPM it's SOHC?
Why not have it the other way around, push even more RPM (hence power) while effectively avoiding valve float?
Bro.. What? Lol
Wow you are stupid man it dohc these guy are clueless it dont have 3 camshaft
The have 2 camshaft but 3 lobe per cylinder two for the low cam and one for the high cam with 3 rocker that get locked together in vtec this tech is 30 year old man it was introduced in the nsx and the crx sir in 1990
Turbo that little s2000
Is the machining pricess the same on the frm bores?
No and nobody do it need special stone and you can only use mahle piston
If you want real forged piston you need to sleeve the engine
I thought you two were twins at the begging. That would be a good prank twins with identical cars
Looks like it’s time for a bigger shop haha
Chances like this do not come around often. Imagine your self paying a Honda dealership for this work. You should uprate the internals even if staying NA, seize the opportunity.
XF free storage 😂
keep it NA - purity!
Yes it’s got more than 11:1 compression ratio. You’re going to have to run either race gas or E85 to keep it reliable. The Japanese tuners already had N/A F series motors putting out 320hp at the crank by the mid 2000’s but go on any forum and they’ll tell you it’s impossible. Spoon ran an 8 hour endurance race in their lightly tuned S2000 that made 275hp. The forums will tell you it’s impossible to make N/A hp but 275-320 n/a hp is perfect for the S2000 on a track.
Once the S2k is up and running we definitely want a rematch!🤣😂
No way can a S2k lose to a freakn miata.
We? I couldnt care less for sewing machine engine ricer cars.
@@TheHeretic435 Yeah me either. These crappy Japanese cars can be seen on a million and one channels and I'm not interested in them
You need to atleast do the bottom end to be able to turbo. There's no point in rebuilding stock it won't change the feel of "stock" and you can upgrade later.
I own a 2005 ap2 trust me
You do realise it will need to be sleeved you can only use mahle piston in the stock frm liner
And these engine can hold 700hp all stock at 500/600hp you can have it fully stock and be reliable at the same time
@@legros731 no way, idk who you talked too but 700 on a stock f22c (ap2) is going to make it go boom really quick. Let alone an ap1
@@bmoney7909 lol it can be done pretty easily man at 700hp you are at the max and play with fire bad gaz and boom
Even stock k20 who is almost identical in design can handle 600hp stock and will live happy at 500hp
You just need to open the ring gap for the power
Keep it na... charged is boring. Try making a little bit more with cams porting and a little more compression
e85 with turbo, s2000 no turbo like P51 mustang without the merlin, just the original stock Allison
TURBO IT!!!!!!!
What about a pro charger just to be different from all the other TH-camrs 🤔
Check for crank walk
Sat for years and never had the oil changed. Then proceed to beat the shit out of it drag racing back to back to back...
stock is good even with upgrade turbo , supercharger on hondas
Quad turbo build!
shelf the honda, when you going to get that 560 SEC done!!!
480hp mild turbo K24 swap. Lol. Or Toda cams for F20
ASM ran a 0:57 on an N/A engine with 345hp on Tsukuba. HKS ran a :54 in a 700hp turbo Lancer. Let that sink in.
3 seconds is an eternity is motorsports.
Agreed, epecially on a sub minute lap!
Please check your email, I've sent you guys some details regarding the F20C FRM engine rebuild process, hope to hear back.
If you turbo it , you wont be worried about civics anymore :)
More power = more better! 😁
You got to convice him to go with TURBO, you know, safety reasons 😉 Cheers!
You already built engine to tyranny adapter plate for Nissan...put a k20a inside ...better tuning possibilities and more aftermarket products available
Buy once, cry once, build the engine and put a turbo on it, N/A will get old quickly even in an S2000. 👍
ASM would disagree with you.
K24's are not light by any means lol theyre tall and heavy. The lexus v8 1uz is lighter and a better, very underrated swap. (Even tho k turbo is a cheatcode to being fast lol)
Right!? I couldn't believe how much of a bastard it was to maneuver a k24 around. Whoever claims they're light has never tried lifting one
@@magnetic0314 i was shocked too 🤣. Moving them around is really terrible.
@@imSchwaggy They are same weight as lS .... Thats strange.
Turbo FTW! Go the boostedboys way!
You have to be careful boring out those sleeves are FRM
Turbo for the win
TURBO!!!!
Turbo or super charger
Turbo, turbo, turbo!!!
Turbo!!
Do not turbo the car. Yes youll have more power and the car will be much faster but all cars now day are turbo. It has lost its soul unlike older all motor cars. All motor cars are making a huge come back due to the rawness of the car. I came from owning two turbo supras and the s2k has made me the happiest guy ever. its slow compare to modern cars but the pride and just how the engine feels all motor is just worth it.
Tell him to do ITB’s
You're dealing with an FRM cylinder on the F series. You cannot use a regular hone on those or you will end up with a smoke machine. I highly recommend you follow the service manual on the honing procedure unless you sleeve the block. You MUST use a GC-600-J or finer stone hone for nonferrous metals.
Listen to your brother, turbo or at least set it up for it
DUDE TURBO IT!!! BUDDY WILL HELP YOU! ITS GONNA BE SLOW STOCK,
Put the internals strong enough to handle a turbo, but DON'T turbo it yet.
Stock internal are good for 700hp keep it stock at 500hp and you will have a reliable engine
And to use forged piston you need to sleeve the engine these are frm liner and will destroy forged piston only mahle make piston for the stock frm liner
Even just boring the stock sleeve need special stone and most machine shop don't have them cost a lot and only a handful of engine use frm sleeve so good luck finding someone willing to do it
Lets go turbo
Get an m113 5.0 in that S2000
Stronger internal
Gas flow and port the head!!!!!
turbo yes
You need a new engine. That block and crank are both ruined. The same amount of money that goes into trying and failing to fix that thing, would buy you a twin turbo V6, and enough power to smoke all the competition.
Supercharged!
low miles + high age = oil never gets to the place it should > things will break very quickly
forget about low miles cars with their aged mechanics and every single rubber/seal needs replacement
car that makes at least 50miles per week = oil got there, oil was changed, rubbers were changed, seals were replaced = solid mechanics!
110k miles isn’t exactly low though is it
Tell him to man-up and boost it while he's got the good opportunity