BEST LYN USERS 2? Maddening
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 29 ก.ย. 2024
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In this video I rank units based on how good they are on Lyn and why. This is a followup to my first Lyn tier list. I will be doing one of these for each emblem :)
Alcryst meh?? Luna procs with Astra Strom!
So a fun build to use is Kagetsu with Lyn on General. If you give him speed plus 2, Lyn bond 5, and a brave sword with the marth engraving, he can quad and one round nearly everything on chapter 13. He gets to about 30 speed, and his defense is about 24-25 so things dont really hurt him much, and his strength is pretty good so the brave sword does good damage, especially when he crits. Its something I've used during my ironman runs until I can get him to Wyvern, and its always very effective. I'm thinking of trying it out for a whole playthrough, we shall see
I think you’re sleeping on Boucheron a little here. He always has a bit of a rough start, but he can still be used as filler early on and once you promote him to Wyvern and get him Axe Power he can pop off. Wyvern Bouch w/ Lyn is an absolute menace - she gives him enough speed that you can focus his skills on damage fixing.
He pretty much keeps pace with a same level Hero Goldmary stat wise, while coming online a few chapters earlier, and dealing slightly more damage due to the higher Mt of Axes. He then deals even more damage in the endgame since you can transition from Hand Axe > Tomahawk. His main problem is bows, but if you pair him with a Lucina flier for Bonded Shield, he wrecks house.
Hero Goldmary when you get her has:
40 HP - 17 STR - 2 MAG - 18 DEX - 20 SPD - 20 DEF - 12 RES - 13 LCK - 9 BLD
Wyvern Bouch at the same level has:
45 HP - 16 STR - 1 MAG - 21 DEX - 20 SPD - 17 DEF - 11 RES - 10 LCK - 12 BLD
With also his +2 damage from his personal, and Axe Power Hand Axe already equipped for enemy phasing.
If they both were to get to level 40 (mainly just to show how they scale compared to each other), Bouch has:
+11 HP, -1 STR, -2 MAG, +9 DEX, +3 SPD, -3 DEF, -3 RES, -7 LCK, +7 BLD
Since you say you usually give GM a Speedwing, we could say give Bouch a Dracoshield and then it’s +1, -1 in those stats instead…
This gives him enough BLD to wield a Tomahawk without being weighed down from about level 35, whereas GM gets stuck with a Javelin because she doesn’t gain the BLD to use a Spear (it would weigh her down by 5).
At 40:
Bouch Hand Axe+5 - 37 Atk, 147 Hit, 31 AS
Bouch Tomakawk+3 - 42 Atk, 133 Hit, 31 AS
Goldmary Javelin+5 - 37 Atk, 140 Hit, 30 AS
That’s before factoring in Power skills, either personal, and the emblem bonuses/Speedtaker too
How does Boucheron benefit from Speedfixing over other units? If anything they can also double and focus on damage fixing. This isn't exclusive to him.
Boucheron is just worse than other units on Lyn, Kagetsu Wyvern smokes him in stats, Goldmary is a brave assist off tank who can run SPD+5/Axe/Sword/Lance power to 1 round reliably without Lyn, and generally can hit speed benchmarks with just SPD+5 and a single speedwing while Bouch has low damage and similar speed, him having more build isn't as relevant to a speedfixing emblem, if anything he lacks speed and damage, and Lyn fixes half of the equation and damage fixing passives fix the other half, in other words he has no advantage over other units and needs both damage and speed fixed. Goldmary has average speed/damage and is tanky. She also doesn't consume early game combat XP and has good bases for free/high starting SP
@@IcedCoffeeGaming Warrior Boucheron has equal or better str, dex, and spd, AND also way more bld than Hero Goldmary. Anything Goldmary can double, Boucheron can double with a MUCH stronger weapon.
@@IcedCoffeeGaming You’re right that he’s outclassed by Kagetsu. He’s basically 2-4 points behind him in every stat at level 40 (except STR. That’s even worse). That means you could even give Kagetsu a Tomahawk and the Wt difference would decrease his SPD to match Bouche’s… the 7 point STR difference really shows there.
I guess I’m just confused why Goldmary stayed A-tier then? What is it about her being a brave assist off-tank that lets her benefit from Lyn to the point where she’s A rank, while Wyvern Bouch with similar stats is relegated to D? (Like you said, you can just run Roy, Speed+5, and Power skill on her instead).
Wyvern!Boucheron at 40:
HP = 68
STR = 25
MAG = 1
DEX = 33
SPD = 30
DEF = 28
RES = 16
LCK = 14
BLD = 17
Hero!Goldmary at 40:
HP = 57
STR = 26
MAG = 3
DEX = 25
SPD = 28
DEF = 32
RES = 19
LCK = 21
BLD = 10
Their damage based on their STR scores should be about the same (the exact same if you’re comparing Hand Axe+5 Bouch vs Javelin+5 GM), but Bouch can use much better weapons because of his BLD. Switching to a Tomahawk+3 means 5 more damage per hit (+2 more if his personal procs).
Maybe I should also throw him on Roy with Axe Power/Speed+5 then… if she can one round without Lyn, then so can he. Maybe Lyn *was* a trap this whole time.
Like you say though, early game combat exp matters but I’ve found that Bouch does ok with mostly just setting up chip damage for other units, and then when he can promote is when you take him seriously: +4 SPD from the wyvern promotion, and practically exclusive use of the Noatun (cheap forge/high damage) lets him hold out for a good while.
@@declanm810 it's interesting that the spd difference is significant enough that Tomahawk Boucheron actually just doubles Spear Goldmary by default.
alcryst meh? he is the character who has used the most lyn lunar is an excellent technique that goes so well with lyn
Etie is not meh tbh. Yeah on warrior she is probably too slow, but on bow knight + Lyn she is really strong, without any wing or skills that boost speed/cons. She is 1rounding pretty much everything with Silver Bow or Brave Bow. Just look at her stats on bow knight, just a little less speed than Alcryst with much better strenght. Of course she is not a top tier unit since she requires Lyn, but she is probably one of the best Lyn user.
Also, same for Amber.
I really don't get why there's such an insistence on using a Second Seal on Etie to make her a Warrior. It's not what she's designed to be.
I honestly think Second Seals are overrated in general.
Her being fixed by Lyn is not the same as being one of the best units on Lyn tho
The thing is, some units will be good with or without lyn, while some units NEED Lyn to be good. Why would you give up Lyn to an unit that don't need it, when you could make another unit very good with Lyn?@@IcedCoffeeGaming
If a unit only functions because of Lyn and needs it, it isn't as good as units who can leverage it for some advantage.
You can SPD fix any bad unit to make them double, but some units make use of this better than others and can do more with it.
Both Etie and Amber lack hit/bulk and struggle to do much off of Lyn making it a requirement to run them more or less, if you hand a better unit Lyn, they can often do more with it and 1 round more consistently/enemy phase better.
Amber is a decent unit, and with Lyn could hit 1 rounding thresholds easily, Etie would require more work/babying, making her worse than Amber.
@@IcedCoffeeGamingThe thing is that you put Etie on C rank. Do you really think Lapis with Lyn is better than Etie with Lyn ? Lapis is an unit that need strength, not speed.
I really want to think Ivy is S tier even for general gameplay, but I've tried Lyn/Ivy in two maddening runs and her speed feels just mediocre enough that Lyn isn't optimal for her, and Ivy's hit rates constantly feel like utter shit, especially against fast units. Let alone that Ivy p much can't do anything with astra storm because Lyn killer bow isn't that strong, neither is Ivy (to use Radiant Bow she needs to be a class that can naturally use bows.) Personally I tend to use Byleth or Corn on Ivy. I really like divine pulse for her shitty hit rates, and Byleth gives her almost everything she wants (except Luin sucks for her.)
Idk call me crazy but in 3 maddening runs I've generally given Lyn to Kagetsu or Chloe. Doubling everything is too valuable to me, especially the alacrity bonus which means they will get free player phase kills on basically anything, and they still have the str to use astra storm for actual impact.
Chloe/Kagetsu can double reliably without Lyn, I never use Lyn on either of them, they are fast enough to double without it.
Honestly this is 100% user error. You can hitfix Ivy very easily.
Engravings:
Leif on Elfire (early game) Upgraded to Bolg, Hit+20
Lucina on Bolg/Thoron (Middlegame) Hit/AVO+30 -1 WT -1 DAM
Lyn on Bolg/Thoron (Middlegame) Hit +40, Crit+20, Dam - 3, Wt -2
Byleth on Thoron (Middlegame) Hit +30, Crit+10, Wt+2, AVO+10 Ddg+30
Eirika on Thoron (With canter) for crit thoron chance, Hit+40, can put enemies at 30-50% of max HP per hit, can roll
20-30% crit to 1 shot randomly
Generally I use Lucina Engraving on her Bolg for Hit+30 and WT-1 and she also gets AVO+30 and can sometimes AVO tank a hit or two as well as consistently hit.
Onto DOUBLING:
You run SPD+3 (early) and +5 longterm, and get her Lyn Bond 20 for SPD+10 at base and Speedtaker, she should be around 28-32 speed before speedtaker and can double superfast enemies after speedtaking. She also has very high res/def and can off tank in general as well as 1 round on player/enemy phase.
@@IcedCoffeeGaming Thanks, good info.
Funny, I've run Bolg + Lucina engrave, and it's decent. I've also always given her speed +2 skill and then ramped up to +4 or +5. Still was not impressed with Ivy, she's good, but not S good IMO.
Hell, I like MK Pandreo more, and I don't even give that guy an emblem ring for a while, usually just some random +1 mag/speed shit, and he's dunking on fools throughout the mid game where I wish I could make Ivy work better.
MK Ivy is very fast and can double without Lyn, Lindwurm is a flying Sage, SPD+5 is usually enough for her to double/1 round all of middle game.
She doubles/1 rounds for me on a ringless run with no passives, so I don't know what you are doing where she isn't doubling with SPD+ and Lyn. Math doesn't check out.
@@IcedCoffeeGaming Haven't tried MK Ivy, maybe worth.
I must have different expectations than you out of Ivy, or maybe I don't feed her enough levels, idk. Fwiw I've not used dlc and I despise the well and whatever else all these new updates have brought into FEE, and perhaps that is the difference? I beat maddening twice before any of the updates and the game was tons of fun, DLC and well completely destroy the game balance.
So here's the thing about Boucheron: his ability to wield axes without spd penalty is his dmg equalizer. His dmg output is on par with Rosado. For sake of comparison:
*Lv13/20/10 Warrior Boucheron*
Weapon: Lucina Tomahawk+3
STR 28
P. ATK 44
SPD 31
BLD 19
AS 31
*Lv17/20/4 Wyvern Rosado*
Weapon: Marth Hand Axe+5
STR 30
P. ATK 42
SPD 33
BLD 10
AS 31
And here's the real kicker: Lucina Tomahawk is already weightless for Boucheron around the time Rosado joins. So Boucheron will always have the benefit of increased dmg output from being able to double the same enemies with heavier weapons over Rosado.
Boucheron doesn't have trouble doubling; in fact, the reason he's not great with Lyn has more to do with the fact that he doesn't really need her spd fixing, and you can get his bulk to where he won't benefit much from Alacrity either.
Avenir Alfred and Hero Goldmary are in a similar boat; they are roughly the same spd. For comparison's sake:
*Lv10/20/13 Avenir Alfred*
HP 57
STR 30
MAG 5
DEX 25
SPD 25
DEF 33
RES 16
LCK 31
BLD 12
*Lv17/20/2 Hero Goldmary*
HP 55
STR 25
MAG 2
DEX 24
SPD 27
DEF 30
RES 18
LCK 20
BLD 9
They are very similar units. Goldmary was lower lvl here, but even still with 5 more lvls on her Alfred's bld would still make up some of the spd difference. So any spd investment that works for Hero Goldmary will work about the same for Avenir Alfred.
Louis's def being so high gives him the benefit of being able to make clones that can straight up block off areas of the map from enemies. Also, much like Bouch, Louis gets plenty of bld to wield his weapons also so he can use extra spd to surprising effect. He also has plenty of str for Astra Storm. Not saying he's going to be amazing with her but there is a use case for it that isn't horrible.
Going to have to disagree with you on Eitei and Amber. They both have crap personal skills so not much of a win for Amber there. Amber's HP base stat is the only thing that blows Eitei out the water everything else she's either a head or behind by 5 points. Amber's base Res growth however is only %5 he is a sitting duck for mages.
Eite is a better warrior than Amber. She has a better speed growth than him, so she's going to double sooner than Amber. Overall was warriors Amber and Eitei don't have to much a gab in terms of stats. HP is Amber's only huge advantage and mages can easily get around that with his his low Res growth and the warrior is only going to give his res growth another 5%.
I don’t know about everyone else but I found wolf knight Alear with Lyn to be really fun.
On my current playthrough I’m trying out Sniper Mauvier with the Radiant Bow+5 with Marth Engrave and while it’s for sure better to use Lyn on somebody who can take advantage of the speed on enemy phase to sweep, Mauvier beats out Citrinne’s magic if she instantly master seals and second seals to Sniper then levels to internal level 31 except he actually has build and fairly respectable speed so he gets to double a decent amount of slower enemies before Speedtaker picks up. His Astra Storms are also incredibly funny, and he can also make great use of physical bows to deal with high Res targets with his great Strength. Not having a dedicated Lyn user until Ch23 was also surprisingly good because it meant that I could alternate giving Lyn to various different units to naturally build their bond rank, but it’s almost definitely better to just stick Lyn on someone and start enemy phasing the entire midgame
I need to know this because I always resent my runs when I get to Ch 11. This will give me something to look forward too.
hey bro... i wanted you to comment on my current anna.
She's a sage with speedtaker and luk plus 10 and blyth max bond. her engage state is insane with the extra range. i havent seen anyone make any comments on how powerful the extra range is... am i trippin or is this widely known
A lot of people know about Siege Byleth build :) Pandreo can also do it well
Alcrest is great eith Lyn.
Anna and ivy in S tier is pure bias bro. This is not a unit tier list but a lyn tier list. She can't use mulagir or mani katti effectively at all. If it just fixes ur speed to double then the highest you can be is A tier. The stat boosters, engage weapons, engage attack, have to be taken into account.
Lyn enables any warrior (such as clanne, Alcryst, fogado, kagetsu) because you can just inherit gentility+, Lunar brace+, Axe power, Strength +, magic+. Astra storm with radiant bow or physical bow.
These characters are S tier and cracked on lyn. To be honest ivy and anna are c tier. And i use Anna all the time so you cant tell me i never ran her on lyn. It literally just enabled her to use levin sword better. Thats about it. Just give build +4 and speedtaker after chapter 11 and you literally have what you would have on lyn. Lyn does nothing for her.
Celica provides more utility to anna because magic +5 for free ,recover staff to help out other team members, doesnt have to deal with resonance bs because levin sword. That emblem is S tier on her
I can tell this isnt a lyn tier list this a "who uses speed+ and speedtaker the best"
Generally agree with this comment. It feels like this tier list mostly ignores Astra Storm, Lyn's engage weaps, and Alacrity, all of which should play a factor in tiering, and is why I question the Ivy placement. Ivy can't really use Astra Storm or Lyn's engage weaps except to poke fliers (and sometimes kill them, but even that felt rare to me the 2 times I tried Lyn/Ivy.)
Meanwhile Mulagir on any physical unit (aka not Ivy) will wreck shop on pp, and speedtaker snowballs really quickly thanks to how stupid OP Mulagir can be.
@@unhingedmanchildi've had a similar experience with Lyn!Alfred. Mulagir is nuts.
You can use something wrong, Anna on Lyn is really cracked, she 1 rounds everything on Levin Sword with Sword Power, I even demo it in this video:
th-cam.com/video/3EZkyG_Zgxw/w-d-xo.html
Mulagir is cute and all but it can't EP and a ton of things can 1 round on playerphase, so it isn't worth mentioning as best in slot.
Ivy is one of the best units in the game, and if you don't believe me watch her wreck shit in my no Somniel/no Rings of any kind run where we are using base weapons no engraves. Near the end she does the CH18 opening of killing 2 enemy wyverns without any emblem on base bolg with no passives:
th-cam.com/users/liveBssA-77Ne7c?feature=share
Let's address the other things:
-Celica on Anna is not needed, she has 75% magic growth on mage knight
-Damage carries do not want support/utility, that is for support/utility units, the more supporting your damage units deal, the less they kill things.
-This is a who takes advantage of Lyn the best list considering killing and hitting breakpoints for 1 rounding
-Alcryst warrior is a meme, Kagetsu Warrior doesn't need Lyn, Fogado Warrior doesn't need Lyn, Clanne warrior is a meme, he has too low of HP/bulk to take a hit and his build is not that good. Also high startup costs for low output.
-I think you are too focused on leveraging Lyn's subpar engage weapons to playerphase kill, Mulagir is her only good weapon as any unit can 1 shot flyers with it and do so with Astra, outside of long range astra pull to cheese maps or remove health bars with radiant bow, I just don't think high STR units on Lyn are high value, mages kind of dominate the game and can consistently kill easier.
-You go on to mention how cracked units that are speedfixed are while mentioning passives anyone can get, also Warrior Anna on Radiant Bow would have WAY HIGHER MAGIC than any of the units you listed, she also has 50% MAG growth at base, so there's that. If anything you are making my argument of Anna being one of the best users of Lyn Stronger.
@@IcedCoffeeGaming Didn't need the sass in the beginning bro.
Mulagir can't EP and Radiant bow Anna on lyn is cracked;Agreed.
You misunderstood, Ivy And Anna are S tier but for emblem lyn usage they're C tier for multiple reasons. Just because it let them hit breakpoints isn't not enough reason to put a unit on S tier for a tier list like this. Especially if they could hit those same breakpoints without it.
To say who uses it best you have to see what that emblem enables and help that unit achieve without it. Best example alarcity, enables a one range unit off tank because they can kill one unit and EP two other units.
Levin sword and Tomes can achieve this without it as they safely attack a one range unit and EP another two. I understand there's two range enemies but it still help that one range unit more than it does for levin sword users. One unit can't be everywhere.
I made this argument before and I'll make it again. Units are allowed to do different things if needed. In the ivy video she putted down obstructs as needed right? It's whatever situation calls for. But imagine she was a mage knight. Not much she can do to help you're team. A damage carry doesn't always to kill just like your dancer doesn't always have to dance.
Celica helps Anna be more versatile she can heal and warp rag kill back into a bonded shield if needed. Saved my life in chapter 24.
Sword power on levin sword is a meme as weapon upgrades, engravings, and lvl ups on a high magical unit when doubling is more than enough to kill all the to chapter 20. It's just overkill. Especially if Anna hits speed cap consistently after 30 lvl ups.
To put clearly show how I'm thinking of this Avenir Alfred A tier on lyn because it enables to not get get doubled and become a speedy great knight that can double slower enemies. And that one's that do aren't threats to him like sword masters. Notice how I didn't put him in A tier just because it lets him hit breakpoints
Final point, An Astra storm that kills is better than an Astra storm that doesn't. If you can't follow that logic then idk what to tell u sass man
Starting an argument off by telling me I'm biased isn't exactly productive.
If you want people to take your arguments more seriously don't start off by asserting I'm just biased and that my placements are rooted in the units I prefer instead of the units that perform, you literally open the comment in bad faith instead of actually understanding my position.