For some reason this is catching the algorithm, so for anyone that’s wants to give me feedback I’d appreciate it. TH-cam has been something I’ve thought about pursuing and I have a huge passion for overwatch and gaming in general and I have a lot to say about things. So just leave this a comment or like if you guys wanna see or hear more things It would mean the world to me ❤
On the counter swapping arguments, remember that clip on Twitter where a tank was getting DESTROYED because he didn't have mauga, he left, bought the battle pass and IMMEDIATELY won. That's just not how a game should be....
Literally my experience on tank back then. I had no new characters unlocked other than kiriko going from OW1 to OW2, so I couldn't play meta picks that I didn't have unlocked. I can play hog, zarya, winston, dva and ball, but I couldn't play into the super oppressive mauga cuz I just couldn't play it to mirror. So whenever I was winning, the enemy tank would switch that and I couldn't out play that on other tanks. Mauga with kiriko support is too oppressive for a non mirror matchup when he was meta.
@@feelmypuddle4963no, but still you win more games by just playing mauga cause of how he is. Same with orisa. Getting constant value at all ranges is busted in a 1 tank world. You can have higher game sense playing weaker characters, but mauga can fucking heal himself while doing damage WHAT THE FUCK IS THAT SHIT
@@j.jonahjoestar7924and then add insane leaver penalties when QP casuals just wanna leave whenever. They can’t get on the same page about ANYTHING. Nothing adds up!!
honestly overwatch 1 was always way more casual i never saw meta being played in plat and below but now it's always meta characters domomating your games
@@avocol4589 Right, the meta wasn't really being played until like high Diamond/Masters. And even in Masters, GM+, the 'meta' wasn't as strict and straightforward as it is in OW2. There was more ways to play as long as the team comp made sense. This is so frustrating smh
Yes it does n its because it is. Go put a better team in a 4v5. See if they ever win, or win consistently. You cant, ow1 was a open world game with 11 other idiots running around. Ow.5 is a linear chess match with no difference in map rotations. @@gamerbeast3616
I watch more 5v5 rants than I play Overwatch now. This was supposed to “increase playmaking ability” but it DID THE OPPOSITE. There’s only ONE right way, ONE right character to play, and STILL, NOTHING. DIES. It’s absolutely miserable. NOBODY ASKED for this, and I hate the devs for not swallowing their pride and simply going back to 6v6. Who cares about 1 week of bad news articles? They have enough data to fix this in ONE PATCH. Players would come back even. Everyone would be happy eventually. JUST. GO. BACK. And build from there. PLEASE.
I used to love playing tank in Overwatch 1 and I gave it a chance here in Overwatch 2 and it's to the point now where even I'm missing 6v6 for the fact that many tanks just weren't designed for solo tanking. The Ball rework was proof of that for me. Hog too. Even Samito suggested quick and easy fixes for 5v5 tanks to work in 6v6. Like Queen shout applying just to her, Mauga's Cardiac Overdrive just applying to him. The game won't be balanced when you have one less tank on a team. Same for if you only had one dps or one support per team. 2-2-2 was perfect. It just needed better balance which they could do now
DPS: The enemy tank won't die no matter how much I shoot! Tanks: I'm getting shot by everyone I can't get enough heals! Support: I can't keep my tank up the DPS debuff makes healing non existent! This game' s become so boring
@@AchedSphinx it feels kinda inconsequential killing squishies because at the end of the day it's an objective based game and you can stall for way longer if you have a 600hp behemoth (with damage negating abilities!) on the point.
Here's the thing the complaint on the support and tank on this comment is from low rank, dude they don't know how to play overwatch in low rank is a different breed of overwatch these players complain is the reason why the game will never be balanced meanwhile all of us in high rank is asking for healing nerfs.
@@llucid2252 not for most players. not compared to ow 1. if roadhog had 800 health and 50% dmg reduction and reduced self heal time in ow1, people would freak out. what's fun about no skill high health op boosted abillites either being op or useless compared to ow1 lower health more abliites cooldowns at less potency in comparison? ow2 buffs everything makes it op and botty. i hate it most people do.
Its because they changed the top 500 requirement to 50 wins, so you get low sr players sweating out 50 wins at the start of the season to get on the leaderboard for a short while to boost their ego.
@@NotKewlI'll be real it's just that diamond players are playing games a lot, not that people specifically grinding to be on the board. When I did my rein unranked to GM I had accidentally qualified and got jump scared by top 500 in like masters 5 lmao
yeah i think overwatch is trying to cushion everything and are getting rid of the high risk high reward playstyle and dulling it down to sitting in chokes and just wating for something to happen.
Youre just describing Anubis and Hanamura in 6v6 lol. Wdym there's no high risk high reward anymore? Now in 5v5 the numerical advantage actually matters. Not only before you'd have to break through an endless amount of shields and dmg mitigation, but you had to at least get 2 relevant picks to be able to push through. OW1 was basically an ult farming simulator and blow them up all at once to be able to brute force your way into most chokes.
yk what, i liked the old UI, the medals, even if thye didn't do anything, it's much nicer to look at than the shitty jingling keys stats ui we have now
I legit thought that the new UI was just for the beta and they were cooking up something way nicer down the line. Still waiting for that to happen lol.
Imma keep It real, OW UI and visual design has always been pure, unadulterated ass, an unreadable headache inducing abortion mess. OW2's UI is worse tho
I think the fundamental issue is they’re trying to force tanks to be able to do both jobs of an off tank and main tank (maintain and define space respectively). It’s why the role has become so one dimensional imo. I think the devs fail to see that rein (a main tank) was never originally designed to be able to maintain space, he was designed to be able to claim space (define it). Similarly, DVA (an off tank) was never designed to be able to claim space. She was designed to be able to maintain already claimed space, for example. I’m not sure how long it will be, but I think the devs will eventually realize they can’t have one tank fulfill both of those responsibilities without the game loop being brain dead as you illustrated in your hog clip. That clip was the whole fight. You died and the fight was over. You and just got everything yeeted at you. There was no tempo, and no ebb and flow at all. That kind of gameplay loop is like when two pawns meet in a game of chess in front of each other; neither pawn can advance until one of them has been cleared (dies). It’s like they’re trying to rework every tank to be like sigma (the one tank that can do both jobs), and it’s brain dead. It reminds me of when bastion had a shield.
Unfortunately I feel like this game will have to almost die in order for blizzard to go 6v6, they're so stubborn about it it's unreal, like, everyone is asking for this, the only people that I see defending 5v5 are either completely disconnected with the other player's actual experience or they are outright lying about ow 1 and 2's actual experience or they explicitly don't care about the game experience at all and just want to shoot things, seriously, you can have your opinion against 6v6, more power to you, but do we really should be catering to people that literally say "I don't care about the tank's experience? Talk about a red flag, Jesus Christ
@pepekovallin Jake said that he doesn't care about tank players, which just confirmed that his opinion can be discarded. Also, he's on blizzard's payroll.
Unfortunately blizzard have kinda screwed themselves with tanks now, his point about counter swapping was exactly right and it can never be fixed unless you make all tanks the same.
@@welcometochristown I think generally tanks are fine but for some reason they decided to add tankbuster tanks like hog, orisa and mauga who's entire goal is to make the other tanks life hell until they swap to match them. They need to bring back old orisa, rework mauga and change hog hook. Then tanks will be way better
The saddest part is, look all of the cool tanks that have been added to the game, JQ, Mauga, Ram, reworked Orisa...they would be a blast to play in 6v6. Instead we are stuck in this format with unkillable AFK tanks which feel shit for everybody.
All the new tanks are fun because they are not bound to the other tank synergy,and the main reason it's 5v5 the dev said was because of que times,no one wants to wait 10 plus minutes to play DPS/support
@@adalwolf8328 yeah sure buddy, either you are playing un f4cked hours like 4am,or you are making sh1t up,or you are in a wide range group,or you are in a unpopular region like Saudi arabia
@@adalwolf8328Proof? The only way you get a 10 min queue now is: playing at 4am,playing in an unpopulated region like Saudi Arabia,playing in a wide range group. so stop spreading lies,in overwatch 1 dps que times could reach 20 min
Like a malevolent AI in an underground testing facility once said. "The best solution to a problem is usually the easiest one." And balancing 5v5 is hard... Next to impossible even.
If OW were built from the ground up for 5v5, it would be fine. But, they're trying to do the impossible and retrofit all the 6v6 heroes. It will never work. Hog was never meant to be a main tank. Rein was never meant to be alone. Ana's nade is too strong for just one tank. They effed it all up.
yeah, game wasn't balanced around 5v5. i was alright with them making the change. you never know, they could make it work, but tanks like roadhog, d.va, zarya, reinhardt, weren't built with 5v5. winston is probably one of the few that can do the 5v5 cuz his bubble is the best and his mobility is still good.
The game wasn't even balanced for 222 or 6v6. Devs straight up said that they didn't know that people would play OW1 like that. They thought people would switch and play more "defensive" or "Offense" characters depending on which side of the map. Tanks+Support combos were always busted because devs didn't design with the most common formats people liked playing.
@@xDjembex Rein was never meant to be alone. That sentence hit me. The whole Overwatch universe is built on the concept of these dynamic heroes working together, side by side. Everyone lifting each other up. But now, solo tanking makes every match feel like a 1v9. Even in the pregame spawn room, most of the characters are literally at odds with each other. And the dialog, whether positive or negative in some way, is utter cringe. Sojourn and Mercy? They talk about feeding her CAT. Oh wow! That's what everyone has been dying to know about the LORE. Mercy hitting on Baptiste? Whoa! Someone call the fire department!! Zenyatta is some inspirational enlightened being, but doesn't know meaning of the symbols on his orbs? The whole spirit of this game is just gone. But hey- at least it's woke, right? 😖
I miss old Overwatch. I was a gold Zarya main in OW1 and yes, she had 400Hp and could easily die to a Reinhardt charge, but that's what made her so fun to play. The bubbles provided protection and power if used correctly, and it was fun to kill an enemy who thought they had me dead to rights. What I'm trying to say is that it feels like Overwatch is removing this skill ceiling that was required for most heroes. Zarya was fun to play when you played her right, nowadays, I barely even queue tank anymore. Overwatch is removing the skill requirements in favor for a more broad approach and it completely removes any challenge or skill from the game...
I was mainly a support player who picked up zarya to play with my reinheart friend. The room for making plays was so much fun, at times it felt like a coop game with just us vs the world. I will never forgive them for taking that from me
when ow2 first released it felt super good but honestly i think that was just becuase there were like no updates to ow1 and it felt stale, there really is not reason to not go back
@@phillyp2330 People called me Delusional for calling the OW2 Beta not better than 6v6 They called me delusional for thinking S1 of OW2 is not better than 6v6 Only now, 9 - 10 Seasons later aber people finally stopping to cope and slowly more and more realising that 5v5 is fucking dogshit. I swear 2x Shield did so much damage to this community, if we didnt have 2x Shield for 3 years but like Rein, zarya, dva, winston as viable tanks, then nobody would have wanted 5v5, it only was accepted because OW1 was left to rot If 6v6 returns, the game can reach its peak again, i 100% believe it
@@heiko2255 It wasnt the 2x shields. It was the supports abilities that created sustain AND stunning. Which btw the fucking poster of the video clearly told you.
@@Vastspartan Yes I know, but what did that AoE Sustain create? First Goats and after Role-Lock 2x Shield Also, the casuals just see 2 shields, they dont have the brain capacity to understand that a Bap and a Brig behind the shields were keeping them up (also Grasp and Fortify are broken) but anyone playing Lucio/Mercy or smth like that was atleast punishable So what im saying still stands, the Community seeing pros/streamers complain about 2x Shield, even though they never played against it, did an insane amount of damage to the perception of 6v6 If they kept Oct 2020 patch and would have kept going to make Orisa, Bap, Sigma, Brig worse instead of buffing them again, we wouldnt have had 2x Shield from 2021 - 2022 and 5v5 would have looked like a stupid idea to everyone the moment they announced it
EXACTLY, THEY LITERALLY MADE US THINK OW2 IS BETTER JUST BY NOT UPDATING OW1 FOR YEARS literal gaslighting (oct 2020 patch was good) whether unintentional or not
I saw a post on Reddit maybe a month ago and there is a guy who is making a 6v6 game mode with all of the changes that mimic ow1. He has a discord server and does testing every so often
Speaking as a DPS player: for a healthy game, it would be better to return to 6vs6. Double shield can be easily fixed, and is already mostly fixed. The continuous counterswapping and especially the balancing issues 5vs5 causes... It is frustrating for the tank players and by extension frustrating for their teams. 5vs5 technically would work, if they would redesign all heroes and rethink the purpose of the tank role.
i agree wholeheartedly with everything you mentioned, this game feels a shell of what it used to be. i’ve been playing since december 2016 and seeing what it used to be and how the “issues” with the 6v6 model could’ve been fixed with a few patches hurts they refuse to admit the changes they made for the better aren’t better, they’re in fact worse, and i’d argue that ow1 was more approachable and rewarding for new players than the state overwatch is currently in great video, keep up the raw honesty with these videos because they community needs to hear stuff like this, i hope blizzard will hear us eventually
for real dude, it's just even just 6v6 for me, it's the entire ow1 engine that they deleted for no reason because we're not even getting pve anymore :((( DUDE THE SOUND DESIGN WAS SO MUCH BETTER and the menus and HUD, genji's shurikens, Ana's gun and healing sound, soldier's gun, etc OH AND HITMARKERS were better :/
@@bambampewpew32That too. One thing I’m 100% sure of about the sound, as an OG Tracer main from 2016 but having a long break until a few weeks ago, is that there are SO MANY times where I’m like “where’s the audio?”. I noticed is a more common problem being in mild carpal tunnel syndrome recovery and having to only consume OW2 content for a little while, it happens a lot more and streamers constantly complain about so many of these problems pro 6v6 people mention, but complaining so much is too unhealthy for them so they just chose to ignore them or just keep it up. Overwatch 2 feeds them after all.
@@kurumiebisuzawa2851 oh dang what lmao I was just gonna say tracer's guns sound way worse in ow2, as soon as ow1 shut down and ow2 came I noticed how much less satisfying ow2 was to play
Honestly bro I understand opening up the game to more casual players like that’s fine, but adding stuff like roadhog being able to HOOK and HEAL during his ult and Moira being able to FADE during her ult and other baby more stuff like that is ridiculous, you shouldn’t be rewarded for using your ult at the wrong time you’re literally just removing opportunities to punish bad behaviors. Double shield was something to say the least, but like you said it was almost entirely the supports using these crazy sustain abilities keeping the tanks alive. All of that could’ve been avoided if the game simply wasn’t abandoned for a PVE game mode ultimately ended up being scrapped anyway. Orisa doesn’t even have a shield anymore, because of the format rein is just unplayable currently, sigma was a 5v5 tank they slapped into OW1. Every character that was released in OW1 had 6v6 in mind, but especially the tanks. If I’m playing DVA I’m gigabuffed because of the format, but the Zarya who can now freely beam me because I don’t have my second tank to help me take the pressure off as easily is also gigabuffed and now wins the matchup even more.
Honestly I could argue that 5v5 doesnt even make for a better casual experience. Most casuals just want to play their favorite 1-3 heroes but 5v5 punishes u for one tricking more than it did in ow1, especially if you are a tank player consistently having to counterswap. Dps and support are just as bad seeing that sojourn, lucio, and kiri have been meta almost every season in ow2. They should of just made ow1 free to play centuries ago and build off of 6v6.
@@quirrel3335 Thats always what im saying to people who think 5v5 is more casual friendly. No its not, i have a friend who got into OW1 in 2022, he loved Rein and could basically always play him, but in OW2 you literally have less than 1% of winning if 1 or 2 people counter you, its a shitty experience. Also, because there is less teammates, everyone is worth more, meaning if someone feeds the game, you will feel it way more, especially if its the tank who is worth like 2 Heroes. Its just a flawed dogshit ass format, created by Blizzard to make OW2 seem like a new game, we could have maybe had 6v6 back already, but Blizzard keeps quiet about it and the shill content creators keep yapping about how 5v5 is good.. But im certain, 6v6 will return, eventually tank will be so miserable, people will quit in masses again (they already do) which will drag down DPS and Supp Qs aswell, when it all explodes, 6v6 and making tank fun is the best way to go forward.
I finally just quit. A player that’s been playing since day 1 in 2016. Team 4 is truly the worst development team I’ve ever had the privilege of witnessing. Every single change and update they make to this game is just another bandaid fix for a problem they made for themselves as a result of these awful clueless changes. Season 9 really was the last straw for me, and now season 10 I’ve just lost all desire to play the game. Fun fact, going into OW2, I had over 700 hours on rein. As of right now, in OW2 a year later. I have only 715 hours on rein, my MAIN. My main that I’ve played a total of 15 hours in a whole fucking year because he’s been so worthless for so long. Another fun fact! In OW1, I peaked at rank 92 on tank, 3800 on DPS, and idk support I never really played it. In OW2, my tank can barely maintain master, My DPS has consistently been GM1, and my support is mid master. How on gods green earth is my main role my lowest!
I feel you man! I've been in from 2020 just right before echo dropped (and COVID). I loved this game but I can see that right now the game is doomed and we have no choice but leaving what we used to love.
as a top500/high gm tank player, youre absolutely right. its unbelievable having to just lock orisa at the start of every game and counterswap all the time in is so frustrating
I'm a Dva Main I'm not top 500 but what hit home in this video is we can do one thing right and get 10 things wrong I don't care what the skill level is you can never make the right play as Tank And then getting yelled at for not making a play I would have made in 1 because leaving the point would hurt us is crazy
There's no sense of risk reward anymore. An insane mechanical play that rewards you with a kill can be erased from history by a mercy res, or stopped altogether by a suzu, immo field, or weaver grip. There is so much less punishment for playing stupid now. The game is so much more forgiving. So many characters are rewarded so much for so little effort. Supports literally do everything, damage, small hitboxes, passive regen, great mobility, and abilities that can cancel out kills or ultimates just by pressing a button. I remember a time when a dps tank duel was decided by who made better use of their kit instead of ehat role/character they were on, with exceptions obviously. But nowadays, no dps is killing a tank in a 1v1, unless its like a rein but thats borderline worst hero in the game right now.
Glad to have you on board. A high level dps player is always a valuable asset to the debate. Especially when the biggest online advocates for 5v5 are pretty much all dps players. Some supports too
@@clandon9624 true overwatch was 3 tanks 3 healers 0 dps and infinite shields. peak gameplay of just waiting for multiple ults to even have a chance of winning teamfight
@@kooshappreciator4773 finally someone mentioned the thing everyone has forgotten because of pure nostalgia. Your gun was reduced to an ultimate charger instead of killing cuz nothing would die until ults. I remember the lovely double barrier meta, the grav dragon meta where it was who used the combo better or more often. I missed the times most dps were useless unless it was burst heroes. I miss the double winston, lucio and tracer meta. The only people who were having fun no matter what meta it was were tanks while everyone else werent.
I totally agree as a tank main. I really miss playing with my friend he’s a tank main too. Now we play open queue and sometimes we don’t get any supports
I totally agree with u about tank! Its not the same like in ow1 and its much more pressure on u if ur playing tank😢 I know the game is not the best right now tbh, but i hope it will get better next season❤💪
The amount of times I've had the urge to play OW1 in the past two years but only have OW2 to go to, log on and remember "oh this is different" and log off. OW1 may have had overpowered plays or heroes, but you know what? It was fun.
I think the only valid defense for 5v5 now is queue times, but that can probably be argued as well. There is no doubt 6v6 is the superior format, and I used to say ‘ah, it’s subjective; some people have bad taste’, but no 6v6 is the superior format. It’s not just tanks that have become way more two dimensional and simple, it’s all of the roles. There’s less to think about, and less strategy, and lower creativity and playstyles. It’s interesting to go back to footage of ow1 and how much more interesting it was, minus the double shield thing; which you are right with Samito, that could’ve been balanced out.
Overwatch players: *complain that their dev team is ruining their favorite hero shooter* TF2 players: first time? No but for real it sucks watching your favorite game drop so drastically in quality. I was never a huge fan of overwatch, it just wasn't for me, but I always respected the game. Seeing it in the state it's in sucks.
Shills gonna shill. Flats always taking some pathetic neutral stance on things. Bro clearly hates playing tank, half the time I see his stream he’s playing dps lol
That’s because they don’t want to change anything else with the game, Rein isn’t very viable due to the 5v5 format. Either they actually fix the game or they keep reworking characters, which is probably what will just keep happening. Rework after rework and nothing is fixed. If Rein is going to be viable with the 5v5 he needs something, not a full rework but some sort of buffs. Or they could actually balance the game but that’s likely never going to happen. I love Rein but most of the time he is godawful to play
100% facts. 5v5 ruined the game. I gave it a fair shot, but it’s inferior in every way. Stopped playing when the story missions dropped, not planning on reinstalling until 6v6 is back. Lots of other competitive games out there more worthy of attention.
I only played for 1 year of Overwatch 1 but I had so much fun hopping into comp games and one tricking Reinhardt and Winston every game. I've never had to pick Hog, Dva, Zarya, Orisa, Sigma ever in Overwatch 1 but now I have to constantly be switching my characters and learning how to play every single one, it's so frustrating. Why can't I win just by being a good Rein player? Why do I have to be a good Rein, Winston, Dva, Doom, Sig, Orisa, Ball, Mauga player?
I think the whole community agrees 5v5 is way worse then 6v6 but the issues is when gold players the most populated rank has to wait 30 minutes+ for a game is never a good situation
As a support player, playing this game feels like you have to constantly be scared for your life because only having one tank means it's so much easier to flank the backline. Support is super strong, but I hate being in kiriko jail on comp
I like the video, and I share the sentiment. I hope some magic happens to return this game to what it used to be. It isn’t unplayable in the current state, but it’s like eating a hamburger without any burger. I was here on 2019 and 2020 for the teamwork and team based elements. These elements have been watered down in favor of deathmatchy elements. It is like one of my favorite games is having an identity crisis
The fact that they had the audacity to Call it "overwatch2", while completely removing the first game from existence still annoys me. But they had to, because nobody would voluntarily play overwatch 2 over the original. It feels like basically everyone has a story of blizzard screwing over a game they loved and overwatch is mine.
Bro I’ve literally been saying everything in this video since the game came out. This entire thing was straight facts. I am also a former Gm/Top500 player from OW1 and still play OW2 from time to time. I am around GM in this game too. It’s crazy to me how Blizzard shills/Overwatch apologists will tell you straight to your face “Well they aren’t gonna change it back so just be grateful!🤓” Like yes guys we the consumers of this shitty game don’t deserve better and should just be grateful with the inferior product. Like yeah guys let’s be grateful to BLIZZARD we owe it to them👍 Let’s be mindless bots and enjoy our shit game and never find for anything better! I used to be a Gm/top500 Rein player in OW1 and it was fucking awesome. The cool part was that even when double shield was the meta if you had the sauce on rein you could still make it work. Even in double shield there were still opportunities to outplay. New rein pin can’t even fucking kill a reaper or mei. And it’s near impossible to play him now in anything higher than like fucking masters, and shitty Overwatch2 streamers will be like “he’s still playable! Get good!” Like yes bro I looove playing Reinhardt on super skull-fuck difficulty! That’s how I always wanna play him! The streamers of this game really let people down by becoming blizzard shills. They will complain about the game then get sponsored to play with some bullshit garbage drops and all the sudden they got nothing to say anymore. The truth is that we simply have an inferior product. I as the consumer don’t fucking owe it to anyone to be grateful to blizzard of all fucking companies😂 like if the game is shit I’m gonna be annoyed. Also don’t even get me started on the in game shop. Or some of the other changes they made. Why are rank symbols suddenly minimalist soulless corporate dogshit and what happened to border levels? People were getting bullied for border levels?????? Who? Also if you cry when someone makes fun of your border it’s time to get off the game and take walk you fucking baby. Also the Overwatch 2 hero designs are so fucking shit😂 once Kiriko was released (in the battle pass😂) I knew it was the beginning of the end. That hero really is just the Bobby Kotick’s legacy. She will always be viable because of her busted kit and she’s designed to sell skins. PEOPLE ALSO LOVE TO CHERRY PICK CLIPS OF PEOPLE GETTING STUNNED IN OVERWATCH 1 BUT THE REASON THAT HAPPENED WAS BECAUSE OF ONLY A COUPLE PROBLEMATIC HEROES. IF THE BALANCE TEAM WASN’T FUCKING STUPID BAP/BRIG/SIG/ORISA WOULD HAVE BEEN NERFED LIKE 8 FUCKING YEARS AGO AND WE NEVER WOULD HAVE GOT THIS SHITTY GAME. If the team spent the time they used when they abandoned Overwatch 1 for 2 fucking years to instead better the game that got them this far we would still be 6v6😂 and have a better game. People seem to forget that Overwatch was the biggest game in the world when it came out. It had the potential to be a generational competitive game like LOL,CSGO, ETC but they fumbled the bag like morons by franchising the shitty ass league and actively making anti-competitive decisions (Private profiles, shit balancing, Etc) they were on top of the world and THREW IT ALL IN THE TRASH. BIGGEST BAG FUMBLE IN THE HISTORY OF GAMING. ANYONE WHO HASNT PLAYED THE FIRST GAME HAS NO IDEA. You were right the game has been baby-afied. Rein can’t fire strike through petal, HOG THROWING HIS PIG PEN CAN BE CANCELLED YET KIRIKOS ULT IS NEAR IMPOSSIBLE TO CANCEL??????? I’m so glad you made this video. You don’t understand how much I’ve been trying to tell people exactly what was said in this video. If there is one thing the Overwatch team has always represented throughout the games entire lifespan it would be the sin of pride. When a character is busted in LOL they disable and fix the fucking problem. In Overwatch they deny it. Too much pride to disable launch brig and look where that got them. Too much pride to EVER admit a mistake. Always doubling down on shitty decisions. Thank you to whoever read this entire schizo rant. I actually have a lot more to say believe it or not but it’s really late.
what I don't get is how fucking level borders were removed due to the fact that "people were getting bullied for it", maybe people in chat were telling them to "touch grass" or "get a job" or whatever, I mean first of all your a goo goo ga ga baby that wears diapers full of diarrhea sack of shit if you get butt hurt for those silly comments, and whats EXTREMELY IRONIC is now all of a sudden in OW2 they show IN-GAME STATS to expose your KD to literally EVERYONE in the lobby, NOW THAT causes a fuck ton more bullying than your level border/rank icon (even though I like it exposing my KD, but my point is that they remove something to fix a "bullying" but then add something else which actually increases "bullying" exponentially if your not performing good). And one more thing is where the fuck.. ok you hear me? WHERE THE FUCK ARE THE WEAPON INSPECTS THEY SHOWCASED IN OCTOBER 2022 THE FUCKING RETARD SELLOUT PIECE OF SHIT COMPANY THAT THEY ARE
@@0.O0xyeah bro facts😂 nobody understands what’s going through that retarded companies head😂 yet so many of the big ow streamers (that happen to get promoted a lot by blizz) will try and gaslight you and tell you to be grateful😂 People act like it’s IMPOSSIBLE to go back to the way things were, like it’s literally possible it’s just blizzard has too much pride lol. And now you get perma muted if you have the lowest endorsement level even in competitive like anyone gives af about that bullshit feature. Sensitive ass company, I genuinely have no idea what crack they are smoking😂
@@0.O0xyeah also this is just what they do. They strip down the game, get rid of features people like, make change just for the sake of change and then add it back later and pretend it’s content. Notice how they get rid of all these features that promote the satisfaction of the player🤔. Get rid of all the rewards and player satisfaction and people will run to the in game shop to get their little dopamine hit from playing their hero with a skin they just spent 20 bucks on😂 shameless company really.
@@0.O0xthey want the game to be a shit generic FTP game like Valorant sooo bad. They wanna cash in on the shit live service model and make the game generic. Like what the guy said in the video they are stripping down the game.
@@Mil-lc2hxthe saddest things is that all we are saying is fuckin proved. Overwatch league abandoned, half of the followers to watch streams, people leaving the game across all ranks, queue times higher than the moon even with all changes done to make them faster. You said it right: they have too much pride, they have so much pride that, instead of listening us, they're paying some shitty and pathetic content creator to make us thing what they want. Only God knows how much I hate flats, the embodiment of this doom
The unfortunate reality is that they needed to reduce tanks to one per team because of queue times. The less people want to play a particular role, the longer the queue times for the other roles become.
Although that's true, the game only reached that point because of a lack of updates and the double shield meta, which was an aftermath of 2-2-2, which was an aftermath of goats, which was an aftermath of... you get the point. I believe it started when we got Brig + a lot of aoe healing (Bap and Moira), but I believe that with the right balancing on 6v6, queue times would not be bad, hell, maybe even role queue would become obsolete given the right balancing choices.
The que times is even worse now.. The crowd control is exacerbated because there is one giant target on the field whose top priority besides forcing out cooldowns and killing is to create space.
We still have long Queue Times for DPS and Support and instantly for Tank and more people play Support and DPS because of how bad 5v5 is So this helped nothing the problem still exist
Sprixy: "You can't kill the tanks - fornat issue, not balance issue." Recent OW Devs: "So we removed headshots on tanks, changed armour to make them tankier and gave then an HP% of max healing passive". You can't make this up...😂 But I agree, the game is just not fun anymore #bringback6v6
As a dps player not only do I miss tanks being killable but also supports I haven’t forgotten that they turbo buffed supports and gave them busted kits bc they didn’t have a 2nd tank, so they can do everything now. Granted, they still got insane shit in 6v6 (bap, brig) but imo the updates and heroes they got in 5v5 are ridiculous Tbh I don’t blame the devs for doing what they’re doing but I wish they were just transparent with us and just tell us ow is not a competitive game anymore and it’s not a priority anymore, it’s a shame that this game imo actively punishes you with a worse experience the more time and the more you try to improve in it
Yea, this games done for if they dont change back to 6v6. Its like i said from the start of season 1, 5v5 CAN WORK, IF they redesign the ENTIRE game. Meaning, maps, heros, swapping heros, literally EVERYTHING. But would that be a better game? Likely not, AND blizzard will NEVER do that. They are too slow. They do not work fast enough, and clearly dont have the passion to do that in any way that would be good. They are just digging a deeper hole for themselves season after season. Season 9 changes were the nail in the coffin for me, havent played since. And wont ever play again until 6v6 is added back. I say this as a DPS player also, Since season 1 ive been saying the game was much worse. If you play in high elo you also see, so many names you use to see everyday, you see less and less. Games bad right now, and its so sad to see. Compared to the oct patch of 2020, how much worse the game became. Since day 1 i was saying, this is some sort of trash team deathmatch. Held in your spawn if your tank is bad, unkillable tanks running around, No distractions from your team like in 6v6 so tons of playstyle / carry the game options were taken away. It just sucks. No games are winnable anymore, if your team is bad. Before nearly every game was winnable. Now you simply cannot outskill 800 hp healthpools. I was so happy for ow 2, thought we were going to get a bunch of new heros (They said like 7-8 were coming at the same time at one point, which never happened), more players, free to play etc. It was gonna be great. But then they announced 5v5, i was like okay... ill try it, then the beta came, horrible. It was just beta though right? It will get better... Season 1 comes, and i knew it was over. Then season 6 was the beginning of the end, PVE gone, the whole reason i was putting up with 5v5, and this new downgraded game, deleted. Ok but maybe this is a ray of hope? Maybe now they focus on the multiplayer and finally add back 6v6. Nope. And its just been worse and worse every season. Well, i got my top 500, reached my goal. And was high gm every season after season 3. But i wish i could of did it on the better game. On 6v6. But oh well. Blizzard has such a big ego, even though they have ruined many of their games over and over. Given chance after chance and still ruin things. Its time to just move on. Near the end of overwatch 1 when barely anyone was playing. Thats when they listened. Guess thats what its going to take again.
with every change they make trying to force 5v5 to work, they kill the identity of the game, the unique heroes/roles we love, the flow of the game/gameplay loops. It's so frustrating I'm gonna keep ranting about it until the game inevitably dies fr. They've been breaking the rules of their own game for years trying to balance this for casuals, who don't care about this game....... Not only that, but they FAILED, because now even casuals are stuck counter=swapping and playing the meta. Everybody has less choices and it SUCKS.
Honestly I don't even agree with that stance that 5v5 can work if you change everything if role queue remains. I strongly believe that EVERY role requires 2 to tango & 2 heroes to mitigate each others' weaknesses.
They could revert the game to the state it was in 3 years ago and it would do better than what they have now. That alone tells you they are actively killing their own game
They can't, if they do it'll mean the relaunch was for nothing. They've backed themselves into a corner and won't admit they messed up big time, because that will prove what everyone has said about the game so far.
On the roadhog thing - I feel you! I was a flank hog main for multiple seasons in OW1. It was by no means OP. The downsides you mention for sure, but it was also accepting the fact that your team would have the worse ult economy, which was offset by Hog being able to hook and one shot a dps or support during/pre-ult. There were drawbacks to that playstyle, and advantages. It was dynamic, it was down to player skill, and you absolutely required protection from your team in order to do it successfully, otherwise you would feed.
I miss getting shiny medals at the end of each match, like why get rid of it? Helped me know what i was doing good at that match and what i needed to improve on, is that not something you want players (especially new ones) to easily recognise bliz..?
The thing about 6v6 tank synergy was that no matter what tanks you picked you could win and it forced dps and support players to think about their cooldown usage positioning and playstyles like Rein/ball can work even as goofy as it sounds because if the enemy team has a zen and ball is harassing them you as rein can have worry about discord way less and because of how ball plays around health pack the lack of defense matrix or zarya bubble is made up for in the fact that you'll have more resources and healing on you from your supports like you'll atleast have one support behind you at all times if the other one is with the dps( I'm a support player btw) and even playing against rein/ball if I'm on zen and the ball is making the game hard for me then ill go brig or lucio and in doing that the enemy rein can be more aggressive and i won't be able to hard punish him but I can punish ball but rein gets to play the game in a more fun way because even if i myself don't swap or adjust my playstyle somebody will because you can't just ignore the ball and let him roam freely into your team Also losing feels less oppressive because steamrolls are less common and of a team is running you over then you can combo ults/ abilities to turn it around or halt the enemy teams hard advance which happens way less nowadays because alot of the team play aspects have been eroded away In conclusion 6v6 is a more stable game and solo tanking is like your coworker that you work with getting fired and you now having to do their job with a 25% raise yeah your getting paid more but your literally doing the job of two people so its getting more stressful and punishing
There is an argument that a lot of you are making in 5v5 that makes no sense. How do you expect tanks to be unique and yet not have to counter pick? The only way to reduce counter picking is to make takes more similar, but as that occurs everyone is also ranting. I believe Blizzard has concluded the only option at this point with 5v5 is to make tanks more similar to at least fix the counter picking issue. Yes, it dumbs down the role immensely but people in this chat said it themselves. "Why can't I just play Rein every game and not need to constantly switch?". Because, if you want a role that doesn't require swapping, then you will get a very simplistic and similar set of mechanics from each tank.
The issue is that by not switching tanks you are throwing 80% of the time. If I'm a Junkrat main and the opposing team has a Pharah, I can still play Junk, because my team can also have a Cassidy and Ana for example. Point is that the supports cover each other, and the dps cover each other, but if you're playing D.VA and the enemy goes Zarya you are basically forced to switch or you'll lose most of the time, unles the skill gap between the two tanks is immense. 2 tanks can cover for each other so that swapping is still a part of the game, but not an obligation that limits playstyle.
@@sakimarques I don't think you read the comment correct and it was stated in the first line it was for 5v5 only. There is no suggestion not to counter pick. To condense the point, its that in 5v5 you can expect to counter pick unless they make all the tanks similar, which is basically the direction things are going right now to balance 5v5. You cannot have it both ways. You cannot have very unique tanks and expect to not counter pick and therefore its pointless for folks to rant about counter picking while also wanting individuality in tanks.
@@CC-yq5bw Oh, I see. To make my point clearer: I agree with you on counter picking, it is inevitable in 5v5. I was actually stating that this is precisely why 6v6 might be the only solution to this problem, as it allows the tanks to be unique and reduces counter picking (but does not eliminate it completely). But I don't think Blizzard is doing that anytime soon, or ever.
For me theres 2 things I miss before overwatch 1.01 came out. Working with my fellow tank protecting each other and talking to people. It’s awful never hearing people communicate with each other and be completely silent all game. They even removed group finder so it’s even harder trying to find random people who talk…
As an OG day 1 Overwatch Player the state of Overwatch today is horrific. 6v6 is a perfect system and games like Marvel Rivals and Paladins prove it. I remember playing a game of overwatch leveling up spinning the lootbox and getting a cool skin only to anticipate the next lootbox and show off my skins in matches. Now I have to drop 20$ to buy a singular skin when I could have just bought hollow knight and have 5$ and get 1000x more content then a skin. Overwatch took a game I payed for murdered it then pee'd on it's corpse by removing features, canceled and murdered new content, and resold it's organs for 15$ (again I could buy hollow knight for that much and get loads more hours).
A very funny thing about OW2 now is that we're right back to square 1 with CC. A team of Sig, Lucio, Brig, Venture, and Junk for example is just boop/stun central It's wild how they claimed they wanted to reduce CC and limit it to tanks early on and then they release Venture and Iilari who have CC, but aren't tanks. These devs are so incompetent
Is a 6v6 game mode possible? Like one where they can revert hp’s of tanks and stuff to be fair for a 6v6. I think that would keep everyone happy while not having to throw away all the new stuff from ow2
As a DPS player who started all the way back in 2016 until now, I can completely agree with what you said here. Overwatch 2 is a straight up downgrade in gameplay design. The game the devs are trying to make for everyone will never exist, because a game for everyone is a game for no one.
Starting with role queue Blizzard has been making choices that just don't make sense to appease a very vocal minority of high level competitive players. They desperately wanted Overwatch to be an esport, so badly that they killed the fun game they'd created in the first place. People getting salty about CC, people getting salty about Brig, people getting salty about their team having 3 DPS heroes, people getting so bent out of shape and demanding "balance", sucking all the fun out of the experience, being toxic. Overwatch 1 is a hybrid FPS-MOBA hero shooter. Overwatch 2 is a disappointment.
no the balance was proper. in fact them NOT balancing is what killed ow1. ow2 sucks because their appeasing you terrible casuals that don’t even understand wtf they’re playing.
As a massive OW casual, I never understood why would they balance the game with the casuals in mind. I genuinely don’t care if I win or lose or if my favorite hero sucks, I’ll play 2hrs a week at best anyway. I’ve been a big player of Apex and still is to this day and it always frustrates me when they make a change or don’t make a change, because the bottom 20% want it to be this way. They won’t even play in a month why are they your main target demographic !?
the funniest thing is that becasue tanks get so much cc, they explode or never die. because they explode, they need to giga buff them, leading to more tanks never dying. its an endless loop because blizzard doesnt understand that 5v5 doesnt work and adding more characters with cc and movement abilities that are essentially get out of jail free cards is not fun, and makes it so things never fucking die.
another thing i want to note: double shield was strong because of sigma and orisas ability to deploy a shield and then do other things whilw the shield was down. that no longer exists in ow2, and replacing one of those characters with someone like rein wont work as well or at all because youre basically playing a 6v5 if rein needs to hold his shield up for double shield to work. ram wont work with double shield because his shield lasts like 4 seconds max either. there are no 2 tanks that have the ability to put down a shield (permanantly) and then do something else like sigma and orisa were albe 2 do
I’m delighted to watch this video, I’m also a DPS player and I have been the only person in my knowing complaining avidly about how overwatch 2 feels lifeless and like a shameless cash grab compared to the game we once loved. I also hate the 5v5 format and miss tank synergy and I don’t even play tank seriously.
I'm also a dps main and I miss the tank synergy too. There were so many cool interactions between the two and imo teams felt more like teams. It kind of feels like every player for themselves to me.
Just so people know- majority of the OW1 devs have left blizzard and the OW2 team consist mainly of new devs. This is why a lot of new skins look like they don't fit the style, balance for the game seem like they are trying to make this feel more generic shooter, and lore/new heroes/new voice lines seem like they're written by some kid playing with his Overwatch(tm) action figures. Another thing about making the game feel more casual-friendly with all those passives: As a mostly casual player (1000+hours from OW1 and never made it past Masters), it still feels worse than OW1 because it feels like you are getting way too much value from counter-picking vs counter-playing(aka just picking the right heroes). What I mean is that a lot of casuals just want to play a few heroes that they like (gameplay/lore etc). Another thing is, one tricks are annoying to play with but at least if they're good they could actually not be a huge burden. Now you get a one-trick on a bad hero and it's over before the game even starts.
As a tank main i miss 6v6. I used to have the freedom to flank, dive, etc. Now my team flames me if I don’t stand in front of them the entire time and soak everything. I also miss being able to alternate with my other tank, once I get low I fall back and vice versa
5v5 is an INSANE intellectual step down for the game. games are so much less interesting and it fucking SUCKS. double shield like you said was a FIXABLE problem. Rammatra, Sojourn ult piercing shields, NOT NERFING DOOM AND REAPER WHEN THEY COUNTER DOUBLE SHIELD, the same thing for symmetra but they could have added that self heal on her beam, adding a barrier damage multiplier to certain abilities or to off tanks in general so that Zarya Hog would counter Double Shield or Zarya Rammatra, REMOVING FORTIFY, reworking immortality field, making echo beam ALWAYS do 200dps to shields, re-allowing Moira to heal through barriers with her spray so you can play Lucio Moira rush with rammatra Zarya and actually get through the shield without then blocking her healing. it wasn't a "bug" that she healed through shields with her spray because every other ability in her kit goes through barriers... those are all ways that 6v6 double shield could have been done away with but noooo the devs are/were idiots and decided they'd rather cop out to 1 tank than actually do their job correctly. Even goats probably could have been countered, Shanghai had that ball comp that I can only imagine would have been better with the Advent of junker queen. throwing enemies into a queens axe range so she can repeatedly swing that thing because of the cooldown reset and the bleeds and all of her healing. not to mention her ult could have done good shit against them, (if they let it go through barriers) they also could have added anti heal to certain abilities or statuses, mostly in the DPS role. Ashe dynamite reducing healing by 25% as long as someone's on fire. letting wrecking ball do the same with his ball form collisions, MAUGA, you could have let junk rat and Pharah light ppl on fire too. either with giving jump jet AoE or making primary directs ignite people. junkrats mines could have been igniters too. you could make hack a -25% healing too and then give it to Sombra, horse javelin, and ram vortex. slowing down and anti healing single targets to focus down. and since they're hacked Zarya can't fucking Cleanse it with bubble, bap can't Regen burst himself etcetc adding more DoT in general to the DPS category and removing burst damage would have prompted DPS to worm together even more and removed the cancerous burst of OW1s final days. Genji dash and blade bleeding enemies, junkrat and Pharah doing burn, Virus, Storm arrows doing electricity damage and slowing targets, removing widow's 300hp headshot and replacing it with a 150hp burst and a 150dps venom. adds counterplay but isn't super likely to deny her oneshots. especially not if you reworked venom mine to be a dart that antied enemies too. you could have given Lifeweaver a needler super combine explosion that antied enemies as well. maybe 15% since it's a primary fire. Rein firestrike, could also burn and Winston's secondary fire could do something similar to Hanzo. there were so so so many ways that they could have gone about decimating both goats and double shield but they CHOSE not to and now the quality of the games strategy has to suffer because everything unique about any hero is just stripped away and replaced with more fucking damage or healing. FLASHBANG? gone. it's a heat seeking 80dmg missile that has an effect that imo is even worse than flash fan. because at least he had to be close for that. Mei freeze? gone. 100dps cleave spray. Sombra hack? gone. increases damage of her virus (low-key useless most of the time btw) echos duplicate (one of the most interesting abilities in the game) doesn't even work how it originally was intended. she can hardly build a single ult on most heros and she especially cannot play a fucking Tank because god forbid 2tanks exist at a time. they even started stripping OW2 heroes of their identifies or uniqueness. sojourn is an incredibly oppressive hero don't get me wrong but they originally gave her a giant slowing field ability (sick as fuck) but then remembered that nobody but tanks and Ana can have CC so they removed it and now that orb can do 250+ damage over time. 😐. Brigitte lost her stun OH BUT DON'T WORRY it does 50 DMG now. even though most of the time the ability is better used as a dash to keep distance. illari might just exemplify what I'm taking about because originally they were going to give her a blind of maybe burn damage but they fucking coppednout again and limited themselves so now she's just a shit hero who's out valued by bap (yet again, fuck Baptiste) because all she does is healing and damage but bap does more of BOTH and has utility. mercy wasn't really a problem in 6v6 or OW1 towards the end. there was and always will be discourse but for them to take the only fucking aspect of her kit that was expressive and replace it with some Temu-esque resource meter was the dumbest shit ever, ESPECIALLY WHEN YOU GET PUNISHED FOR USING IT. so they took something that I and other people LEARNED how to do and learned when it was good to do and when it was bad to do. and they replaced it with some shitty gauge so that casuals could do it. now the hero is shit because that amount of consistency is ridiculous. hog has also been balanced around casuals even though his hook and him in general are some of the most counter able things in the entire game. they took his oneshot combo (his literal method of denying space btw, being scary) and gave him a trap????? stop balancing this game around casuals or it will die when something new and shiny comes along. stop stripping nuance from heroes and dulling this game down from a dagger to a club. stop pretending 5v5 is good and fun when every match is just counter swapping bullshit or if she's strong at the time horse mirrors. which everyone TOTALLY loves.... bring back dive, bring back double bubble, bring back rein Zarya. the tank role feels dysfunctional without a second tank to provide protection for the protector. Zarya bubble, defense matrix and to a certain extent hog hook were all useful abilities for saving your other tank from things that CURRENTLY make the tank role a fucking Nightmare to play WITH and AGAINST.
Seeing this video and many others like it makes me cry a bit. I used to play this game a lot back in OW1 but the passion left me before I could achieve my goal of top 500. I peaked around low GM/high masters area (3955 SR I believe) and was at one point the rank 23 Genji on overbuff. This game is like a good friend who got addicted to drugs and ended up getting hospitalized. No one on this planet has hurt me more than Blizzard Entertainment. I came back for a bit in Overwatch 2, thought things were going to get better but I hated 5v5 but everyone's coping that it's better. Way less interaction, way less fun, way less skill ceiling. The straw that broke the camel's back for me was the addition of Lifeweaver. When I saw Lifegrip I immediately went and uninstalled the game. A support having that much agency and denial is too much. Not only is it frustrating to play against but also if your support doesn't like you, they'll just troll you by picking Lifeweaver and pulling you. As a Genji especially, you already have to think about how you're going to outplay the enemy but now you have to think about outplaying your own team?? Nah man, I was just done. I hope this game bounces back but the entire dev team needs to be replaced because they have zero fucking clue what they're doing with the game and what made it truly enjoyable in the first place. Otherwise, this game's future looks bleak. Anyhow that's my piece.
this man just be spiting facts out to the world on this game. I was a tank ball main, now you can't do shit with him, reworked yet again and still the same shit.
Before the game even released we had critics knowing exactly what would happen. Dunkey saying that steamrolling would get worse, tanks being unkillable monsters. It’s just not fun.
As a dps main I enjoy the game, but I remember that on OW1 I liked to sometimes to flex playing off-tank, but nowadays I never want to queue up tank, I cant no longer be playing like an off-tank flanking with zarya or doom because you gotta play the telegraphed tank or you are selling your whole team, so much responsibility on your hands to make a risky play
Thank you, from a low diamond player who is now in high silver. This game feels like a vanilla Shotter where every character is almost the same and tank just eats every dam cool down.
like you, i played overwatch since it's early infancy and loved team synergy, it was so rewarding to collaborate with strangers. I left when 5v5 released only to come back recently, and agree entirely with your position. the game is fun for a week but the removal of what made the game fun and unique makes it ever so frustrating to play
I felt this in my soul. Was hardcore into OW1 and stopped immediately after OW2 dropped. Zero team play, guns felt super floaty and now OW1 is dead and gone.
I met one of my best buddies in OW1. We both OTP tanks, Hog and Rein. Playing together as a tank duo brought us together, and the removal of a tank cause us to duo significantly less. Hog, Rein, and pretty much every other character on the OW2 roster were not designed for a 5v5 format, and forcing the game into a 5v5 format by stripping heroes of their identities is what’s killing Overwatch.
Youve perfectly summarized my recent thoughts i loved this game was even gonna start streaming it, but the last few seasons as a tank main have been just boring. Every tank feeling the same is truly the worst direction for tank to go when it comes to fun(which is the most important factor no matter what anyone else says. Keep up the work man id love to see more from you
I was top 500 in OW1 and even coached GM level teams. Credentials aside, my biggest gripe with the one tank format is that it gives a single player the ability to take their team hostage. If you had a main tank that just ints, you could run two main tanks and try to make that work. Now, you can't. I have had so many ball players just go feed 1v5, hogs flanking alone and inting, that I lost count. You can not do anything about this scenario in OW2. If your tank refuses to cooperate you are just done.
Everyone remembers double shield but I remember the last couple seasons of OW1 where you could play anything and win. It honestly felt like the game was in a healthy state.
i'm glad to hear so many people coming out of the woodwork to yell about 5v5 it's fucking infuriating an apology is warranted at this point tbh idk if it's just me, but the way companies conduct themselves, it genuinely feels like there is a threat to them for opening communication and addressing their communities directly i was incredibly shocked when the dev team named Eskay specifically and spoke on her concerns, such contact is unheard of i think the community would be similarly happy if they swallowed their pride and peeled the "2" sticker off their logo once and for all
I preferred 6v6 yes. I don't think it could or should go back though. Doubling the bottleneck to finding a game by increasing the requirement to 2 tanks would feel terrible. Without going over every point, the reality is the devs have proven they couldn't balance 6v6, might as well try a little longer in 5v5. I'm a support main and I agree about their power level. The game feels worst when they are busted.
Well said. However I doubt 2 tanks would be that much of a bottleneck, people forget the game went f2p so should have way more players. Unless there are some other factors that make people not want to play the format or something...
I think the thing that I really hated about tank was exactly that feeling of NEEDING to rely on my teammates to secure the kills I just cannot get without completely forfeiting my life that fight. Most of my wins in Diamond were literally just me fighting the other tank and supports to the best of my ability, i bait all their CDs, likely die before i kill one of the supports or i manage to kill one, then die and PRAY my teammates can finish the job. I mean it was either that or we just stream rolled the other team, hardly any other result aside from obvious getting stomped. Tank was already one of the most blamed, thankless roles. Now you're quite literally a punching bag for everyone. This all coming from a Support main btw. I really feel for tanks. The tanking experience feels so powerless. The entire match is just "which tank has better support and do the dps follow up or not" unless there's some MASSIVE tank gap that's usually the way it plays out.
I miss 6v6 tank combos, the tank synergy made the game so much more fun, because the game encouraged team coordination which makes sense because it’s a team based game, but alot of the changes just seem to be allowing for people to play the game as if it’s just a tdm which is boring. OW had a chance to do something great for the gaming community by being a game that encouraged unity and collaboration but it dropped the pve story which is nuts because the game is full of characters with these interconnected stories but you get almost none of it in game which reduces their personalities to just quirky voice lines or fan fiction style head canon story bases which suck
Idk how many people remember this, but in early development for ow1, the devs said that most of the choke points on maps (ex. Hollywood 1st point, almost all 2cp maps, kings row 1st, so on) were built around Reinhardt’s shield size. Almost like the game at a fundamental level was build around Rein and the devs seem to have just forgotten that 🤷♂️
Its so nice seeing more people share this idea. I am the average overwatch player, gold rank since ow1. I used to love playing tank, me and my buddy camden on rein zarya was so much fun. Ever since 5v5 ive felt the FUN of the game just disapear. QP is in ruin, full of sweats who WILL counter swap you the whole game so they can win. The format is inherently broken and flawed. I miss my tank duo and i miss when this game required thinking and execution. Now its just "counter swap the tank until you win." Im sick of it, im so tired of it. I want to love this game but its hard to with the format and 5v5ers telling me i have rose tinted glasses.
I peaked masters in season 8 one-tricking lucio. That was the last time I can genuinely say I had fun playing comp, but the writing was definitely on the wall before way before that. Uninstalled about 3 days ago and it'll take a drastic shift in balance to bring me back.
Oh man i havent even had the word overwatch enter my head for over a year and seeing this brought back so many great memories but also so much sadness from what happened. I played this game SO much, started in 2017 ish and even though i got annoyed and frustrated sometimes, i LOVED Overwatch, made so many great friends and had so much fun, even towards the end when they werent updating the game it was a blast. This game got me through COVID. Spent most of my time in Plat and towards the end reached high diamond on two roles. From the moment they announced 5v5 i knew it was over. It makes me genuinely sad to look at what became of this game. I didnt really get to take part in any of the "golden years" of certain games, i wasnt involved in COD in the xbox live days, i Didnt play Wow or runescape. Overwatch was the closest i had to that. Ended up semi-quitting before Overwatch 2 even released because i didnt need to try it to know id hate it. I did end up playing it a bit but it didnt click, it wasnt the game i loved anymore. Im not sure ill ever be into a game competitively as much as i was with OW again. It truly was a unique experience and they turned it into a cheap copy of itself.
2016 tank veteran here, I peaked 3490 on season 16 on overwatch 1, Masters 4 on Ow2. Solo tank is the most miserable experience you could ever encounter in gaming, with double tank you has flexibility in every aspect. Playing off tank mainly ball and hog was so much more rewarding because their whole point was to disrupt back lines and punish errors made by the enemy team. What even is the point of ball anymore in ow2? If you play him as a main tank he is garbage because his kit isn’t built for it, and if you play him normally your entire team dies because they don’t have a main tank to protect them while you flank and do ball stuff. There’s a doom against me, I go orisa, they go zarya, I go Winston, they go dva. Constant counter picking over and over. Your team doesn’t help either, most dps and support players especially on Europe RARELY ever switch, you are left to multitask everything in the game, I’m expected to dive the backline supports as orisa while contesting the enemy tank in a choke while also creating space for my dps who’s getting diffed
Just wanted to say I completely agree that 6v6 > 5v5 But we all know that blizzards ego will never allow this. They either completely abandon 5v5 which I doubt they will do, or at this point, lose players I joined ow2 season 1 and found that Dva monkey and rein play styles really resonated with me (in order from my most played to least) I’d absolutely love to play Dva and not have every punch, sleep, discord (which is a problem in it of itself), etc. directed at me. I do wish that i could have played during ow1s prime even if im still having fun on ow2. Hell, maybe I’d even play hog. His concept in 6v6 seems really funny. Just an opinion from a diamond tank player
As someone who started playing Overwatch the week after it came out, and stopped playing two months after they introduced 5v5, I would consider giving the game another shot if it reintroduced 6v6
For some reason this is catching the algorithm, so for anyone that’s wants to give me feedback I’d appreciate it. TH-cam has been something I’ve thought about pursuing and I have a huge passion for overwatch and gaming in general and I have a lot to say about things. So just leave this a comment or like if you guys wanna see or hear more things It would mean the world to me ❤
Just go for it man, no dream is too high that you can't reach it
Do it dude. Already subbed, would love to see more from you.
Bro I agree w u wholeheartedly same story for me was a console player then got a pc for ow2 I was severely disappointed
Awesome video id definitely watch more
Crazy thing is even if blizzard goes 6v6 after wasting all our time for this long I still can’t forgive them marvel rivals will save us
On the counter swapping arguments, remember that clip on Twitter where a tank was getting DESTROYED because he didn't have mauga, he left, bought the battle pass and IMMEDIATELY won. That's just not how a game should be....
Literally my experience on tank back then. I had no new characters unlocked other than kiriko going from OW1 to OW2, so I couldn't play meta picks that I didn't have unlocked.
I can play hog, zarya, winston, dva and ball, but I couldn't play into the super oppressive mauga cuz I just couldn't play it to mirror. So whenever I was winning, the enemy tank would switch that and I couldn't out play that on other tanks. Mauga with kiriko support is too oppressive for a non mirror matchup when he was meta.
New characters are free and not tied to the battle pass anymore, so that won't happen
@@feelmypuddle4963not the point he was making I don't think
@@feelmypuddle4963what a horrible funny situation though, huh
@@feelmypuddle4963no, but still you win more games by just playing mauga cause of how he is. Same with orisa. Getting constant value at all ranges is busted in a 1 tank world. You can have higher game sense playing weaker characters, but mauga can fucking heal himself while doing damage WHAT THE FUCK IS THAT SHIT
Balancing this game for casuals for them not to play this game after 4 months.
They balance the game for casuals then go ahead and make quick play the home of the casual, a sweat fest. Then they're surprised when nobody is happy.
@@j.jonahjoestar7924 SO FUCKING TRUE QUICKPLAY IS A SHITSHOW NOW
@@j.jonahjoestar7924and then add insane leaver penalties when QP casuals just wanna leave whenever. They can’t get on the same page about ANYTHING. Nothing adds up!!
honestly overwatch 1 was always way more casual i never saw meta being played in plat and below but now it's always meta characters domomating your games
@@avocol4589 Right, the meta wasn't really being played until like high Diamond/Masters. And even in Masters, GM+, the 'meta' wasn't as strict and straightforward as it is in OW2. There was more ways to play as long as the team comp made sense. This is so frustrating smh
As a tank player I’m so sick of 5v5. It’s sad. This game feels like a soulless shell of ow1
no it dosent lmao
Yes it does n its because it is. Go put a better team in a 4v5. See if they ever win, or win consistently. You cant, ow1 was a open world game with 11 other idiots running around. Ow.5 is a linear chess match with no difference in map rotations. @@gamerbeast3616
Bro has no idea of how the game works calling it soulless you just suck😭😭😭
@@gamerbeast3616 it feels souless to some people & not to others.. its fine.. imo as long as youre having fun rhats all that matters:)
yea it does @@gamerbeast3616
I watch more 5v5 rants than I play Overwatch now. This was supposed to “increase playmaking ability” but it DID THE OPPOSITE. There’s only ONE right way, ONE right character to play, and STILL, NOTHING. DIES. It’s absolutely miserable. NOBODY ASKED for this, and I hate the devs for not swallowing their pride and simply going back to 6v6. Who cares about 1 week of bad news articles? They have enough data to fix this in ONE PATCH. Players would come back even. Everyone would be happy eventually. JUST. GO. BACK. And build from there. PLEASE.
I used to love playing tank in Overwatch 1 and I gave it a chance here in Overwatch 2 and it's to the point now where even I'm missing 6v6 for the fact that many tanks just weren't designed for solo tanking. The Ball rework was proof of that for me. Hog too. Even Samito suggested quick and easy fixes for 5v5 tanks to work in 6v6. Like Queen shout applying just to her, Mauga's Cardiac Overdrive just applying to him. The game won't be balanced when you have one less tank on a team. Same for if you only had one dps or one support per team. 2-2-2 was perfect. It just needed better balance which they could do now
Marvel Rivals right around the corner
OMG SAME
@@SplashNetwork Hog is literally one of the most solid tanks rn but ok
@@PainxSorrowi hope its as fun as it looks x'D idk marvel but i'll play anything as long as i like the gameplay!!
DPS: The enemy tank won't die no matter how much I shoot!
Tanks: I'm getting shot by everyone I can't get enough heals!
Support: I can't keep my tank up the DPS debuff makes healing non existent!
This game' s become so boring
it's pretty funny since dps aren't even trying to kill other dps or support now, just the tank.
@@AchedSphinx it feels kinda inconsequential killing squishies because at the end of the day it's an objective based game and you can stall for way longer if you have a 600hp behemoth (with damage negating abilities!) on the point.
OMG, thank you. I wanted to say this in my comment, but I couldn't think how to word it, but you just described it perfectly.
@@AchedSphinx Then they're doing something wrong since dps never tried mainly killing tanks.
Here's the thing the complaint on the support and tank on this comment is from low rank, dude they don't know how to play overwatch in low rank is a different breed of overwatch these players complain is the reason why the game will never be balanced meanwhile all of us in high rank is asking for healing nerfs.
gotta agree solo tank is miserable
I think is pretty dam fun
@@llucid2252 not for most players. not compared to ow 1. if roadhog had 800 health and 50% dmg reduction and reduced self heal time in ow1, people would freak out. what's fun about no skill high health op boosted abillites either being op or useless compared to ow1 lower health more abliites cooldowns at less potency in comparison? ow2 buffs everything makes it op and botty. i hate it most people do.
@@llucid2252 masochism isn't common among the average person/player
When season 10 top 500 dropped I found it hilarious that top 500 tank was diamond 2
Its because they changed the top 500 requirement to 50 wins, so you get low sr players sweating out 50 wins at the start of the season to get on the leaderboard for a short while to boost their ego.
@@NotKewlI'll be real it's just that diamond players are playing games a lot, not that people specifically grinding to be on the board. When I did my rein unranked to GM I had accidentally qualified and got jump scared by top 500 in like masters 5 lmao
yeah i think overwatch is trying to cushion everything and are getting rid of the high risk high reward playstyle and dulling it down to sitting in chokes and just wating for something to happen.
That's basically what 2CP was, but anyway...
Preach my rat brother
Youre just describing Anubis and Hanamura in 6v6 lol. Wdym there's no high risk high reward anymore? Now in 5v5 the numerical advantage actually matters. Not only before you'd have to break through an endless amount of shields and dmg mitigation, but you had to at least get 2 relevant picks to be able to push through. OW1 was basically an ult farming simulator and blow them up all at once to be able to brute force your way into most chokes.
@S4LFnX he means that blizzard is balancing the game to be more sit back until there is a pick, so there's no risk you just wait til someone dies
Overwatch GOATs meta
yk what, i liked the old UI, the medals, even if thye didn't do anything, it's much nicer to look at than the shitty jingling keys stats ui we have now
agreed, old ui was much cleaner
@@NOM_OW Yep, the UI change was one of the first things that i saw and went "i dont like it"
I legit thought that the new UI was just for the beta and they were cooking up something way nicer down the line. Still waiting for that to happen lol.
Imma keep It real, OW UI and visual design has always been pure, unadulterated ass, an unreadable headache inducing abortion mess. OW2's UI is worse tho
I hated the UI look at first but it's grown on me. Would hate it to go back to OW1 UI now.
I think the fundamental issue is they’re trying to force tanks to be able to do both jobs of an off tank and main tank (maintain and define space respectively). It’s why the role has become so one dimensional imo.
I think the devs fail to see that rein (a main tank) was never originally designed to be able to maintain space, he was designed to be able to claim space (define it). Similarly, DVA (an off tank) was never designed to be able to claim space. She was designed to be able to maintain already claimed space, for example.
I’m not sure how long it will be, but I think the devs will eventually realize they can’t have one tank fulfill both of those responsibilities without the game loop being brain dead as you illustrated in your hog clip.
That clip was the whole fight. You died and the fight was over. You and just got everything yeeted at you. There was no tempo, and no ebb and flow at all. That kind of gameplay loop is like when two pawns meet in a game of chess in front of each other; neither pawn can advance until one of them has been cleared (dies).
It’s like they’re trying to rework every tank to be like sigma (the one tank that can do both jobs), and it’s brain dead. It reminds me of when bastion had a shield.
exactly, and instead of fixing the issue organically (6v6) the devs just gigabuff any tank that can't do both
Unfortunately I feel like this game will have to almost die in order for blizzard to go 6v6, they're so stubborn about it it's unreal, like, everyone is asking for this, the only people that I see defending 5v5 are either completely disconnected with the other player's actual experience or they are outright lying about ow 1 and 2's actual experience or they explicitly don't care about the game experience at all and just want to shoot things, seriously, you can have your opinion against 6v6, more power to you, but do we really should be catering to people that literally say "I don't care about the tank's experience? Talk about a red flag, Jesus Christ
@pepekovallin Jake said that he doesn't care about tank players, which just confirmed that his opinion can be discarded. Also, he's on blizzard's payroll.
Unfortunately blizzard have kinda screwed themselves with tanks now, his point about counter swapping was exactly right and it can never be fixed unless you make all tanks the same.
@@welcometochristown I think generally tanks are fine but for some reason they decided to add tankbuster tanks like hog, orisa and mauga who's entire goal is to make the other tanks life hell until they swap to match them. They need to bring back old orisa, rework mauga and change hog hook. Then tanks will be way better
The saddest part is, look all of the cool tanks that have been added to the game, JQ, Mauga, Ram, reworked Orisa...they would be a blast to play in 6v6.
Instead we are stuck in this format with unkillable AFK tanks which feel shit for everybody.
All the new tanks are fun because they are not bound to the other tank synergy,and the main reason it's 5v5 the dev said was because of que times,no one wants to wait 10 plus minutes to play DPS/support
@@emiyaann4688 I literally wait 10min for DPS games as of today. (Diamond rank) Bullshit reason.
@@adalwolf8328 yeah sure buddy, either you are playing un f4cked hours like 4am,or you are making sh1t up,or you are in a wide range group,or you are in a unpopular region like Saudi arabia
@@adalwolf8328Proof? The only way you get a 10 min queue now is: playing at 4am,playing in an unpopulated region like Saudi Arabia,playing in a wide range group.
so stop spreading lies,in overwatch 1 dps que times could reach 20 min
Agreed, the new tanks with some minor tweaks could be great in 6v6. They aren't fun at all in 5v5.
Like a malevolent AI in an underground testing facility once said.
"The best solution to a problem is usually the easiest one."
And balancing 5v5 is hard... Next to impossible even.
If OW were built from the ground up for 5v5, it would be fine. But, they're trying to do the impossible and retrofit all the 6v6 heroes. It will never work. Hog was never meant to be a main tank. Rein was never meant to be alone. Ana's nade is too strong for just one tank. They effed it all up.
yeah, game wasn't balanced around 5v5. i was alright with them making the change. you never know, they could make it work, but tanks like roadhog, d.va, zarya, reinhardt, weren't built with 5v5. winston is probably one of the few that can do the 5v5 cuz his bubble is the best and his mobility is still good.
The game wasn't even balanced for 222 or 6v6. Devs straight up said that they didn't know that people would play OW1 like that. They thought people would switch and play more "defensive" or "Offense" characters depending on which side of the map. Tanks+Support combos were always busted because devs didn't design with the most common formats people liked playing.
@@xDjembex Rein was never meant to be alone. That sentence hit me. The whole Overwatch universe is built on the concept of these dynamic heroes working together, side by side. Everyone lifting each other up. But now, solo tanking makes every match feel like a 1v9. Even in the pregame spawn room, most of the characters are literally at odds with each other. And the dialog, whether positive or negative in some way, is utter cringe. Sojourn and Mercy? They talk about feeding her CAT. Oh wow! That's what everyone has been dying to know about the LORE. Mercy hitting on Baptiste? Whoa! Someone call the fire department!! Zenyatta is some inspirational enlightened being, but doesn't know meaning of the symbols on his orbs? The whole spirit of this game is just gone. But hey- at least it's woke, right? 😖
@@rfrakctured you were so close and then you decided some people need to be invisible to the rest of the world.
Unfortunate.
I miss old Overwatch. I was a gold Zarya main in OW1 and yes, she had 400Hp and could easily die to a Reinhardt charge, but that's what made her so fun to play. The bubbles provided protection and power if used correctly, and it was fun to kill an enemy who thought they had me dead to rights.
What I'm trying to say is that it feels like Overwatch is removing this skill ceiling that was required for most heroes. Zarya was fun to play when you played her right, nowadays, I barely even queue tank anymore. Overwatch is removing the skill requirements in favor for a more broad approach and it completely removes any challenge or skill from the game...
I was mainly a support player who picked up zarya to play with my reinheart friend. The room for making plays was so much fun, at times it felt like a coop game with just us vs the world. I will never forgive them for taking that from me
when ow2 first released it felt super good but honestly i think that was just becuase there were like no updates to ow1 and it felt stale, there really is not reason to not go back
We actually knew this was gonna happen. Everyone was asking how the game will feel after the honeymoon stage
@@phillyp2330 People called me Delusional for calling the OW2 Beta not better than 6v6
They called me delusional for thinking S1 of OW2 is not better than 6v6
Only now, 9 - 10 Seasons later aber people finally stopping to cope and slowly more and more realising that 5v5 is fucking dogshit.
I swear 2x Shield did so much damage to this community, if we didnt have 2x Shield for 3 years but like Rein, zarya, dva, winston as viable tanks, then nobody would have wanted 5v5, it only was accepted because OW1 was left to rot
If 6v6 returns, the game can reach its peak again, i 100% believe it
@@heiko2255 It wasnt the 2x shields. It was the supports abilities that created sustain AND stunning. Which btw the fucking poster of the video clearly told you.
@@Vastspartan Yes I know, but what did that AoE Sustain create? First Goats and after Role-Lock 2x Shield
Also, the casuals just see 2 shields, they dont have the brain capacity to understand that a Bap and a Brig behind the shields were keeping them up (also Grasp and Fortify are broken) but anyone playing Lucio/Mercy or smth like that was atleast punishable
So what im saying still stands, the Community seeing pros/streamers complain about 2x Shield, even though they never played against it, did an insane amount of damage to the perception of 6v6
If they kept Oct 2020 patch and would have kept going to make Orisa, Bap, Sigma, Brig worse instead of buffing them again, we wouldnt have had 2x Shield from 2021 - 2022 and 5v5 would have looked like a stupid idea to everyone the moment they announced it
EXACTLY, THEY LITERALLY MADE US THINK OW2 IS BETTER JUST BY NOT UPDATING OW1 FOR YEARS literal gaslighting (oct 2020 patch was good) whether unintentional or not
The community should create a 6v6 gamemode in custom games and balance it themselves
I saw a post on Reddit maybe a month ago and there is a guy who is making a 6v6 game mode with all of the changes that mimic ow1. He has a discord server and does testing every so often
It's actually happening, Samito has played it
It exists. It’s better than 5v5 in literally every single way.
There is one with Old abilities I can't remember the name but I was invited to a Lobby only issue is the game crashes alot
Speaking as a DPS player: for a healthy game, it would be better to return to 6vs6. Double shield can be easily fixed, and is already mostly fixed. The continuous counterswapping and especially the balancing issues 5vs5 causes... It is frustrating for the tank players and by extension frustrating for their teams. 5vs5 technically would work, if they would redesign all heroes and rethink the purpose of the tank role.
6v6 sucks this guy has horrible takes
@@gamerbeast3616 6v6 is great ^ this guy has horrible takes
Its crazy to think people grew up with this game I was an adult by the time OW dropped, but I feel your pain this is how I feel about old CoD
Isn't a crazy coincidence that both games are under the same publisher?
@@WinterGoBrrr Yea but really only the consumer can be blamed, if people didn't buy into live services, they wouldn't exist.
i agree wholeheartedly with everything you mentioned, this game feels a shell of what it used to be. i’ve been playing since december 2016 and seeing what it used to be and how the “issues” with the 6v6 model could’ve been fixed with a few patches hurts
they refuse to admit the changes they made for the better aren’t better, they’re in fact worse, and i’d argue that ow1 was more approachable and rewarding for new players than the state overwatch is currently in
great video, keep up the raw honesty with these videos because they community needs to hear stuff like this, i hope blizzard will hear us eventually
They heard. Their response is to plug their ears and go lalalalalalala
for real dude, it's just even just 6v6 for me, it's the entire ow1 engine that they deleted for no reason because we're not even getting pve anymore :((( DUDE THE SOUND DESIGN WAS SO MUCH BETTER and the menus and HUD, genji's shurikens, Ana's gun and healing sound, soldier's gun, etc OH AND HITMARKERS were better :/
@@bambampewpew32That too. One thing I’m 100% sure of about the sound, as an OG Tracer main from 2016 but having a long break until a few weeks ago, is that there are SO MANY times where I’m like “where’s the audio?”.
I noticed is a more common problem being in mild carpal tunnel syndrome recovery and having to only consume OW2 content for a little while, it happens a lot more and streamers constantly complain about so many of these problems pro 6v6 people mention, but complaining so much is too unhealthy for them so they just chose to ignore them or just keep it up. Overwatch 2 feeds them after all.
@@kurumiebisuzawa2851 oh dang what lmao I was just gonna say tracer's guns sound way worse in ow2, as soon as ow1 shut down and ow2 came I noticed how much less satisfying ow2 was to play
Honestly bro I understand opening up the game to more casual players like that’s fine, but adding stuff like roadhog being able to HOOK and HEAL during his ult and Moira being able to FADE during her ult and other baby more stuff like that is ridiculous, you shouldn’t be rewarded for using your ult at the wrong time you’re literally just removing opportunities to punish bad behaviors.
Double shield was something to say the least, but like you said it was almost entirely the supports using these crazy sustain abilities keeping the tanks alive. All of that could’ve been avoided if the game simply wasn’t abandoned for a PVE game mode ultimately ended up being scrapped anyway. Orisa doesn’t even have a shield anymore, because of the format rein is just unplayable currently, sigma was a 5v5 tank they slapped into OW1. Every character that was released in OW1 had 6v6 in mind, but especially the tanks. If I’m playing DVA I’m gigabuffed because of the format, but the Zarya who can now freely beam me because I don’t have my second tank to help me take the pressure off as easily is also gigabuffed and now wins the matchup even more.
Honestly I could argue that 5v5 doesnt even make for a better casual experience. Most casuals just want to play their favorite 1-3 heroes but 5v5 punishes u for one tricking more than it did in ow1, especially if you are a tank player consistently having to counterswap. Dps and support are just as bad seeing that sojourn, lucio, and kiri have been meta almost every season in ow2. They should of just made ow1 free to play centuries ago and build off of 6v6.
@@quirrel3335 Thats always what im saying to people who think 5v5 is more casual friendly.
No its not, i have a friend who got into OW1 in 2022, he loved Rein and could basically always play him, but in OW2 you literally have less than 1% of winning if 1 or 2 people counter you, its a shitty experience.
Also, because there is less teammates, everyone is worth more, meaning if someone feeds the game, you will feel it way more, especially if its the tank who is worth like 2 Heroes.
Its just a flawed dogshit ass format, created by Blizzard to make OW2 seem like a new game, we could have maybe had 6v6 back already, but Blizzard keeps quiet about it and the shill content creators keep yapping about how 5v5 is good..
But im certain, 6v6 will return, eventually tank will be so miserable, people will quit in masses again (they already do) which will drag down DPS and Supp Qs aswell, when it all explodes, 6v6 and making tank fun is the best way to go forward.
@@heiko2255 I think more and more people will come around after the midseason patch with the horrendous tank changes.
I finally just quit. A player that’s been playing since day 1 in 2016. Team 4 is truly the worst development team I’ve ever had the privilege of witnessing. Every single change and update they make to this game is just another bandaid fix for a problem they made for themselves as a result of these awful clueless changes. Season 9 really was the last straw for me, and now season 10 I’ve just lost all desire to play the game.
Fun fact, going into OW2, I had over 700 hours on rein. As of right now, in OW2 a year later. I have only 715 hours on rein, my MAIN. My main that I’ve played a total of 15 hours in a whole fucking year because he’s been so worthless for so long.
Another fun fact! In OW1, I peaked at rank 92 on tank, 3800 on DPS, and idk support I never really played it. In OW2, my tank can barely maintain master, My DPS has consistently been GM1, and my support is mid master. How on gods green earth is my main role my lowest!
I feel you man! I've been in from 2020 just right before echo dropped (and COVID). I loved this game but I can see that right now the game is doomed and we have no choice but leaving what we used to love.
as a top500/high gm tank player, youre absolutely right. its unbelievable having to just lock orisa at the start of every game and counterswap all the time in is so frustrating
Do you still instalock orisa after her nerfs or is it more viable to play Mauga/Hog/Sig currently?
I'm a Dva Main I'm not top 500 but what hit home in this video is we can do one thing right and get 10 things wrong I don't care what the skill level is you can never make the right play as Tank
And then getting yelled at for not making a play I would have made in 1 because leaving the point would hurt us is crazy
There's no sense of risk reward anymore. An insane mechanical play that rewards you with a kill can be erased from history by a mercy res, or stopped altogether by a suzu, immo field, or weaver grip. There is so much less punishment for playing stupid now. The game is so much more forgiving. So many characters are rewarded so much for so little effort. Supports literally do everything, damage, small hitboxes, passive regen, great mobility, and abilities that can cancel out kills or ultimates just by pressing a button. I remember a time when a dps tank duel was decided by who made better use of their kit instead of ehat role/character they were on, with exceptions obviously. But nowadays, no dps is killing a tank in a 1v1, unless its like a rein but thats borderline worst hero in the game right now.
Glad to have you on board. A high level dps player is always a valuable asset to the debate. Especially when the biggest online advocates for 5v5 are pretty much all dps players. Some supports too
5v5ers are mostly on Blizzards payroll or brand new fresh casuals, or ppl that hated ow and love it being a CoD game with cartoon graphics
The glazing is nutty!!!!!
@@kirkx1170ik the 5v5 glazing is crazy. Like it’s objectively worse cause it’s not true overwatch
@@clandon9624 true overwatch was 3 tanks 3 healers 0 dps and infinite shields. peak gameplay of just waiting for multiple ults to even have a chance of winning teamfight
@@kooshappreciator4773 finally someone mentioned the thing everyone has forgotten because of pure nostalgia. Your gun was reduced to an ultimate charger instead of killing cuz nothing would die until ults. I remember the lovely double barrier meta, the grav dragon meta where it was who used the combo better or more often. I missed the times most dps were useless unless it was burst heroes. I miss the double winston, lucio and tracer meta. The only people who were having fun no matter what meta it was were tanks while everyone else werent.
5v5 made me a support main. I mained rein since 2017 and now i havent played him in comp since season 3
Another Hawk quote to bolster the one you provided at the end “In OW2 if you win you don’t feel pleasure you feel relief” (paraphrasing)
That clip of you on hog dueling the rien was perfect at encapsulating how to tank is played in 5v5, not enjoyable 😭
I totally agree as a tank main. I really miss playing with my friend he’s a tank main too. Now we play open queue and sometimes we don’t get any supports
I totally agree with u about tank! Its not the same like in ow1 and its much more pressure on u if ur playing tank😢 I know the game is not the best right now tbh, but i hope it will get better next season❤💪
tank was my favorite role in ow1, i mained wrecking ball back then. ow2 has made tank so unenjoyable that i've completely switched to a support main.
The amount of times I've had the urge to play OW1 in the past two years but only have OW2 to go to, log on and remember "oh this is different" and log off. OW1 may have had overpowered plays or heroes, but you know what? It was fun.
It seems like the majority of players want 6v6, and the only people who want 5v5 are the ingrained content creators who've signed ndas with blizzard
or new players who started playing after FTP and have no idea how the 6v6 experience is even like
people who prefer 5v5 dont have to complain because they have what they like already, so ofcourse you'll only see comments about wanting 6v6
I think the only valid defense for 5v5 now is queue times, but that can probably be argued as well. There is no doubt 6v6 is the superior format, and I used to say ‘ah, it’s subjective; some people have bad taste’, but no 6v6 is the superior format. It’s not just tanks that have become way more two dimensional and simple, it’s all of the roles. There’s less to think about, and less strategy, and lower creativity and playstyles.
It’s interesting to go back to footage of ow1 and how much more interesting it was, minus the double shield thing; which you are right with Samito, that could’ve been balanced out.
when the game is good the queue times are low lol im still waiting similar times for 5v5 games as i did in 6v6
Overwatch players: *complain that their dev team is ruining their favorite hero shooter*
TF2 players: first time?
No but for real it sucks watching your favorite game drop so drastically in quality. I was never a huge fan of overwatch, it just wasn't for me, but I always respected the game. Seeing it in the state it's in sucks.
Me who never sided with any and just enjoyed both games, welcome to hell.
Funny how both communities are finally united by getting fucked over by their companies.
what are you talking about, tf2 doesnt even get updates, besides that sorry excuse of a summer update. tf2 has been the same since 2015
Keep in mind flats asked for a Reinhardt rework lmao
ofcourse he did
Shills gonna shill. Flats always taking some pathetic neutral stance on things. Bro clearly hates playing tank, half the time I see his stream he’s playing dps lol
@@jaded-harper thought that was because on tank he couldnt get a game in any reasonable amount of time
That’s because they don’t want to change anything else with the game, Rein isn’t very viable due to the 5v5 format. Either they actually fix the game or they keep reworking characters, which is probably what will just keep happening. Rework after rework and nothing is fixed. If Rein is going to be viable with the 5v5 he needs something, not a full rework but some sort of buffs. Or they could actually balance the game but that’s likely never going to happen. I love Rein but most of the time he is godawful to play
Flats does not have a brain
100% facts. 5v5 ruined the game. I gave it a fair shot, but it’s inferior in every way. Stopped playing when the story missions dropped, not planning on reinstalling until 6v6 is back. Lots of other competitive games out there more worthy of attention.
as soon as 5v5 happened, I started playing open queue but I miss it sm 😭😭🙏
I only played for 1 year of Overwatch 1 but I had so much fun hopping into comp games and one tricking Reinhardt and Winston every game. I've never had to pick Hog, Dva, Zarya, Orisa, Sigma ever in Overwatch 1 but now I have to constantly be switching my characters and learning how to play every single one, it's so frustrating. Why can't I win just by being a good Rein player? Why do I have to be a good Rein, Winston, Dva, Doom, Sig, Orisa, Ball, Mauga player?
I think the whole community agrees 5v5 is way worse then 6v6 but the issues is when gold players the most populated rank has to wait 30 minutes+ for a game is never a good situation
As a support player, playing this game feels like you have to constantly be scared for your life because only having one tank means it's so much easier to flank the backline. Support is super strong, but I hate being in kiriko jail on comp
Move on to another game?
@@fistofram5526most ow1 players have already
People abuse the crap out of that too
@@fistofram5526I mean the other option is a bot infested tf2
@@leonardo9259paladins idk about it but it is a hero shooter.
I like the video, and I share the sentiment. I hope some magic happens to return this game to what it used to be. It isn’t unplayable in the current state, but it’s like eating a hamburger without any burger. I was here on 2019 and 2020 for the teamwork and team based elements. These elements have been watered down in favor of deathmatchy elements. It is like one of my favorite games is having an identity crisis
spot on with everything. i don't know what they're trying to do, but it ain't it
I remember the day that the Overwatch team announced that the game would be switching to 5v5. I was so confused at the time, and I still am.🤨❔❔❔
The fact that they had the audacity to Call it "overwatch2", while completely removing the first game from existence still annoys me. But they had to, because nobody would voluntarily play overwatch 2 over the original. It feels like basically everyone has a story of blizzard screwing over a game they loved and overwatch is mine.
I was literally one level away from becoming silver border 😞 now I’m just taunted every time I click career profile
Same it’s frustrating lol
Lmaoo me too.
Bro I’ve literally been saying everything in this video since the game came out. This entire thing was straight facts. I am also a former Gm/Top500 player from OW1 and still play OW2 from time to time. I am around GM in this game too.
It’s crazy to me how Blizzard shills/Overwatch apologists will tell you straight to your face “Well they aren’t gonna change it back so just be grateful!🤓” Like yes guys we the consumers of this shitty game don’t deserve better and should just be grateful with the inferior product. Like yeah guys let’s be grateful to BLIZZARD we owe it to them👍 Let’s be mindless bots and enjoy our shit game and never find for anything better!
I used to be a Gm/top500 Rein player in OW1 and it was fucking awesome. The cool part was that even when double shield was the meta if you had the sauce on rein you could still make it work. Even in double shield there were still opportunities to outplay. New rein pin can’t even fucking kill a reaper or mei. And it’s near impossible to play him now in anything higher than like fucking masters, and shitty Overwatch2 streamers will be like “he’s still playable! Get good!” Like yes bro I looove playing Reinhardt on super skull-fuck difficulty! That’s how I always wanna play him!
The streamers of this game really let people down by becoming blizzard shills. They will complain about the game then get sponsored to play with some bullshit garbage drops and all the sudden they got nothing to say anymore.
The truth is that we simply have an inferior product. I as the consumer don’t fucking owe it to anyone to be grateful to blizzard of all fucking companies😂 like if the game is shit I’m gonna be annoyed.
Also don’t even get me started on the in game shop. Or some of the other changes they made. Why are rank symbols suddenly minimalist soulless corporate dogshit and what happened to border levels? People were getting bullied for border levels?????? Who? Also if you cry when someone makes fun of your border it’s time to get off the game and take walk you fucking baby.
Also the Overwatch 2 hero designs are so fucking shit😂 once Kiriko was released (in the battle pass😂) I knew it was the beginning of the end. That hero really is just the Bobby Kotick’s legacy. She will always be viable because of her busted kit and she’s designed to sell skins.
PEOPLE ALSO LOVE TO CHERRY PICK CLIPS OF PEOPLE GETTING STUNNED IN OVERWATCH 1 BUT THE REASON THAT HAPPENED WAS BECAUSE OF ONLY A COUPLE PROBLEMATIC HEROES. IF THE BALANCE TEAM WASN’T FUCKING STUPID BAP/BRIG/SIG/ORISA WOULD HAVE BEEN NERFED LIKE 8 FUCKING YEARS AGO AND WE NEVER WOULD HAVE GOT THIS SHITTY GAME. If the team spent the time they used when they abandoned Overwatch 1 for 2 fucking years to instead better the game that got them this far we would still be 6v6😂 and have a better game.
People seem to forget that Overwatch was the biggest game in the world when it came out. It had the potential to be a generational competitive game like LOL,CSGO, ETC but they fumbled the bag like morons by franchising the shitty ass league and actively making anti-competitive decisions (Private profiles, shit balancing, Etc) they were on top of the world and THREW IT ALL IN THE TRASH. BIGGEST BAG FUMBLE IN THE HISTORY OF GAMING. ANYONE WHO HASNT PLAYED THE FIRST GAME HAS NO IDEA. You were right the game has been baby-afied. Rein can’t fire strike through petal, HOG THROWING HIS PIG PEN CAN BE CANCELLED YET KIRIKOS ULT IS NEAR IMPOSSIBLE TO CANCEL??????? I’m so glad you made this video. You don’t understand how much I’ve been trying to tell people exactly what was said in this video.
If there is one thing the Overwatch team has always represented throughout the games entire lifespan it would be the sin of pride. When a character is busted in LOL they disable and fix the fucking problem. In Overwatch they deny it. Too much pride to disable launch brig and look where that got them. Too much pride to EVER admit a mistake. Always doubling down on shitty decisions.
Thank you to whoever read this entire schizo rant. I actually have a lot more to say believe it or not but it’s really late.
what I don't get is how fucking level borders were removed due to the fact that "people were getting bullied for it", maybe people in chat were telling them to "touch grass" or "get a job" or whatever, I mean first of all your a goo goo ga ga baby that wears diapers full of diarrhea sack of shit if you get butt hurt for those silly comments, and whats EXTREMELY IRONIC is now all of a sudden in OW2 they show IN-GAME STATS to expose your KD to literally EVERYONE in the lobby, NOW THAT causes a fuck ton more bullying than your level border/rank icon (even though I like it exposing my KD, but my point is that they remove something to fix a "bullying" but then add something else which actually increases "bullying" exponentially if your not performing good). And one more thing is where the fuck.. ok you hear me? WHERE THE FUCK ARE THE WEAPON INSPECTS THEY SHOWCASED IN OCTOBER 2022 THE FUCKING RETARD SELLOUT PIECE OF SHIT COMPANY THAT THEY ARE
@@0.O0xyeah bro facts😂 nobody understands what’s going through that retarded companies head😂 yet so many of the big ow streamers (that happen to get promoted a lot by blizz) will try and gaslight you and tell you to be grateful😂 People act like it’s IMPOSSIBLE to go back to the way things were, like it’s literally possible it’s just blizzard has too much pride lol. And now you get perma muted if you have the lowest endorsement level even in competitive like anyone gives af about that bullshit feature. Sensitive ass company, I genuinely have no idea what crack they are smoking😂
@@0.O0xyeah also this is just what they do. They strip down the game, get rid of features people like, make change just for the sake of change and then add it back later and pretend it’s content. Notice how they get rid of all these features that promote the satisfaction of the player🤔. Get rid of all the rewards and player satisfaction and people will run to the in game shop to get their little dopamine hit from playing their hero with a skin they just spent 20 bucks on😂 shameless company really.
@@0.O0xthey want the game to be a shit generic FTP game like Valorant sooo bad. They wanna cash in on the shit live service model and make the game generic. Like what the guy said in the video they are stripping down the game.
@@Mil-lc2hxthe saddest things is that all we are saying is fuckin proved.
Overwatch league abandoned, half of the followers to watch streams, people leaving the game across all ranks, queue times higher than the moon even with all changes done to make them faster.
You said it right: they have too much pride, they have so much pride that, instead of listening us, they're paying some shitty and pathetic content creator to make us thing what they want. Only God knows how much I hate flats, the embodiment of this doom
The unfortunate reality is that they needed to reduce tanks to one per team because of queue times. The less people want to play a particular role, the longer the queue times for the other roles become.
Although that's true, the game only reached that point because of a lack of updates and the double shield meta, which was an aftermath of 2-2-2, which was an aftermath of goats, which was an aftermath of... you get the point. I believe it started when we got Brig + a lot of aoe healing (Bap and Moira), but I believe that with the right balancing on 6v6, queue times would not be bad, hell, maybe even role queue would become obsolete given the right balancing choices.
The que times is even worse now.. The crowd control is exacerbated because there is one giant target on the field whose top priority besides forcing out cooldowns and killing is to create space.
We still have long Queue Times for DPS and Support and instantly for Tank and more people play Support and DPS because of how bad 5v5 is
So this helped nothing the problem still exist
@@aarrontherwbyfan1181 i mean, the queue times would probably be a lot longer if it was 6v6 in the current state
Sprixy: "You can't kill the tanks - fornat issue, not balance issue."
Recent OW Devs: "So we removed headshots on tanks, changed armour to make them tankier and gave then an HP% of max healing passive".
You can't make this up...😂
But I agree, the game is just not fun anymore #bringback6v6
As a dps player not only do I miss tanks being killable but also supports
I haven’t forgotten that they turbo buffed supports and gave them busted kits bc they didn’t have a 2nd tank, so they can do everything now. Granted, they still got insane shit in 6v6 (bap, brig) but imo the updates and heroes they got in 5v5 are ridiculous
Tbh I don’t blame the devs for doing what they’re doing but I wish they were just transparent with us and just tell us ow is not a competitive game anymore and it’s not a priority anymore, it’s a shame that this game imo actively punishes you with a worse experience the more time and the more you try to improve in it
Yea, this games done for if they dont change back to 6v6. Its like i said from the start of season 1, 5v5 CAN WORK, IF they redesign the ENTIRE game. Meaning, maps, heros, swapping heros, literally EVERYTHING. But would that be a better game? Likely not, AND blizzard will NEVER do that. They are too slow. They do not work fast enough, and clearly dont have the passion to do that in any way that would be good. They are just digging a deeper hole for themselves season after season. Season 9 changes were the nail in the coffin for me, havent played since. And wont ever play again until 6v6 is added back.
I say this as a DPS player also, Since season 1 ive been saying the game was much worse. If you play in high elo you also see, so many names you use to see everyday, you see less and less. Games bad right now, and its so sad to see. Compared to the oct patch of 2020, how much worse the game became. Since day 1 i was saying, this is some sort of trash team deathmatch. Held in your spawn if your tank is bad, unkillable tanks running around, No distractions from your team like in 6v6 so tons of playstyle / carry the game options were taken away. It just sucks. No games are winnable anymore, if your team is bad. Before nearly every game was winnable. Now you simply cannot outskill 800 hp healthpools.
I was so happy for ow 2, thought we were going to get a bunch of new heros (They said like 7-8 were coming at the same time at one point, which never happened), more players, free to play etc. It was gonna be great. But then they announced 5v5, i was like okay... ill try it, then the beta came, horrible. It was just beta though right? It will get better... Season 1 comes, and i knew it was over. Then season 6 was the beginning of the end, PVE gone, the whole reason i was putting up with 5v5, and this new downgraded game, deleted. Ok but maybe this is a ray of hope? Maybe now they focus on the multiplayer and finally add back 6v6. Nope. And its just been worse and worse every season. Well, i got my top 500, reached my goal. And was high gm every season after season 3. But i wish i could of did it on the better game. On 6v6. But oh well.
Blizzard has such a big ego, even though they have ruined many of their games over and over. Given chance after chance and still ruin things. Its time to just move on. Near the end of overwatch 1 when barely anyone was playing. Thats when they listened. Guess thats what its going to take again.
with every change they make trying to force 5v5 to work, they kill the identity of the game, the unique heroes/roles we love, the flow of the game/gameplay loops. It's so frustrating I'm gonna keep ranting about it until the game inevitably dies fr.
They've been breaking the rules of their own game for years trying to balance this for casuals, who don't care about this game....... Not only that, but they FAILED, because now even casuals are stuck counter=swapping and playing the meta. Everybody has less choices and it SUCKS.
Honestly I don't even agree with that stance that 5v5 can work if you change everything if role queue remains. I strongly believe that EVERY role requires 2 to tango & 2 heroes to mitigate each others' weaknesses.
They could revert the game to the state it was in 3 years ago and it would do better than what they have now. That alone tells you they are actively killing their own game
They can't, if they do it'll mean the relaunch was for nothing. They've backed themselves into a corner and won't admit they messed up big time, because that will prove what everyone has said about the game so far.
@@vigilantbruiser1119" they can't backtrack because that would involve admitting they were wrong". Sounds about right
On the roadhog thing - I feel you! I was a flank hog main for multiple seasons in OW1. It was by no means OP. The downsides you mention for sure, but it was also accepting the fact that your team would have the worse ult economy, which was offset by Hog being able to hook and one shot a dps or support during/pre-ult. There were drawbacks to that playstyle, and advantages. It was dynamic, it was down to player skill, and you absolutely required protection from your team in order to do it successfully, otherwise you would feed.
I miss getting shiny medals at the end of each match, like why get rid of it? Helped me know what i was doing good at that match and what i needed to improve on, is that not something you want players (especially new ones) to easily recognise bliz..?
The thing about 6v6 tank synergy was that no matter what tanks you picked you could win and it forced dps and support players to think about their cooldown usage positioning and playstyles like Rein/ball can work even as goofy as it sounds because if the enemy team has a zen and ball is harassing them you as rein can have worry about discord way less and because of how ball plays around health pack the lack of defense matrix or zarya bubble is made up for in the fact that you'll have more resources and healing on you from your supports like you'll atleast have one support behind you at all times if the other one is with the dps( I'm a support player btw) and even playing against rein/ball if I'm on zen and the ball is making the game hard for me then ill go brig or lucio and in doing that the enemy rein can be more aggressive and i won't be able to hard punish him but I can punish ball but rein gets to play the game in a more fun way because even if i myself don't swap or adjust my playstyle somebody will because you can't just ignore the ball and let him roam freely into your team
Also losing feels less oppressive because steamrolls are less common and of a team is running you over then you can combo ults/ abilities to turn it around or halt the enemy teams hard advance which happens way less nowadays because alot of the team play aspects have been eroded away
In conclusion 6v6 is a more stable game and solo tanking is like your coworker that you work with getting fired and you now having to do their job with a 25% raise yeah your getting paid more but your literally doing the job of two people so its getting more stressful and punishing
There is an argument that a lot of you are making in 5v5 that makes no sense. How do you expect tanks to be unique and yet not have to counter pick? The only way to reduce counter picking is to make takes more similar, but as that occurs everyone is also ranting. I believe Blizzard has concluded the only option at this point with 5v5 is to make tanks more similar to at least fix the counter picking issue. Yes, it dumbs down the role immensely but people in this chat said it themselves. "Why can't I just play Rein every game and not need to constantly switch?". Because, if you want a role that doesn't require swapping, then you will get a very simplistic and similar set of mechanics from each tank.
The issue is that by not switching tanks you are throwing 80% of the time. If I'm a Junkrat main and the opposing team has a Pharah, I can still play Junk, because my team can also have a Cassidy and Ana for example. Point is that the supports cover each other, and the dps cover each other, but if you're playing D.VA and the enemy goes Zarya you are basically forced to switch or you'll lose most of the time, unles the skill gap between the two tanks is immense. 2 tanks can cover for each other so that swapping is still a part of the game, but not an obligation that limits playstyle.
@@sakimarques I don't think you read the comment correct and it was stated in the first line it was for 5v5 only. There is no suggestion not to counter pick. To condense the point, its that in 5v5 you can expect to counter pick unless they make all the tanks similar, which is basically the direction things are going right now to balance 5v5. You cannot have it both ways. You cannot have very unique tanks and expect to not counter pick and therefore its pointless for folks to rant about counter picking while also wanting individuality in tanks.
@@CC-yq5bw Oh, I see. To make my point clearer: I agree with you on counter picking, it is inevitable in 5v5. I was actually stating that this is precisely why 6v6 might be the only solution to this problem, as it allows the tanks to be unique and reduces counter picking (but does not eliminate it completely). But I don't think Blizzard is doing that anytime soon, or ever.
@@sakimarques 100% agree
For me theres 2 things I miss before overwatch 1.01 came out. Working with my fellow tank protecting each other and talking to people. It’s awful never hearing people communicate with each other and be completely silent all game. They even removed group finder so it’s even harder trying to find random people who talk…
As an OG day 1 Overwatch Player the state of Overwatch today is horrific. 6v6 is a perfect system and games like Marvel Rivals and Paladins prove it. I remember playing a game of overwatch leveling up spinning the lootbox and getting a cool skin only to anticipate the next lootbox and show off my skins in matches. Now I have to drop 20$ to buy a singular skin when I could have just bought hollow knight and have 5$ and get 1000x more content then a skin. Overwatch took a game I payed for murdered it then pee'd on it's corpse by removing features, canceled and murdered new content, and resold it's organs for 15$ (again I could buy hollow knight for that much and get loads more hours).
A very funny thing about OW2 now is that we're right back to square 1 with CC. A team of Sig, Lucio, Brig, Venture, and Junk for example is just boop/stun central
It's wild how they claimed they wanted to reduce CC and limit it to tanks early on and then they release Venture and Iilari who have CC, but aren't tanks. These devs are so incompetent
5v5 is like overwatch mobile
Bro lmao, it's like those fighting games on the app store
I haven’t played ow in years should I hope back in or wait until marvel rivals comes out on console?
Is a 6v6 game mode possible? Like one where they can revert hp’s of tanks and stuff to be fair for a 6v6. I think that would keep everyone happy while not having to throw away all the new stuff from ow2
As a DPS player who started all the way back in 2016 until now, I can completely agree with what you said here. Overwatch 2 is a straight up downgrade in gameplay design. The game the devs are trying to make for everyone will never exist, because a game for everyone is a game for no one.
Starting with role queue Blizzard has been making choices that just don't make sense to appease a very vocal minority of high level competitive players. They desperately wanted Overwatch to be an esport, so badly that they killed the fun game they'd created in the first place. People getting salty about CC, people getting salty about Brig, people getting salty about their team having 3 DPS heroes, people getting so bent out of shape and demanding "balance", sucking all the fun out of the experience, being toxic.
Overwatch 1 is a hybrid FPS-MOBA hero shooter. Overwatch 2 is a disappointment.
no the balance was proper. in fact them NOT balancing is what killed ow1. ow2 sucks because their appeasing you terrible casuals that don’t even understand wtf they’re playing.
As a massive OW casual, I never understood why would they balance the game with the casuals in mind. I genuinely don’t care if I win or lose or if my favorite hero sucks, I’ll play 2hrs a week at best anyway.
I’ve been a big player of Apex and still is to this day and it always frustrates me when they make a change or don’t make a change, because the bottom 20% want it to be this way. They won’t even play in a month why are they your main target demographic !?
the funniest thing is that becasue tanks get so much cc, they explode or never die. because they explode, they need to giga buff them, leading to more tanks never dying. its an endless loop because blizzard doesnt understand that 5v5 doesnt work and adding more characters with cc and movement abilities that are essentially get out of jail free cards is not fun, and makes it so things never fucking die.
another thing i want to note: double shield was strong because of sigma and orisas ability to deploy a shield and then do other things whilw the shield was down. that no longer exists in ow2, and replacing one of those characters with someone like rein wont work as well or at all because youre basically playing a 6v5 if rein needs to hold his shield up for double shield to work. ram wont work with double shield because his shield lasts like 4 seconds max either. there are no 2 tanks that have the ability to put down a shield (permanantly) and then do something else like sigma and orisa were albe 2 do
Really good point about Reinhardt. He’s the whole point of Overwatch
I’m so glad someone put how we Al have been feeling into words without the copium.
I’m delighted to watch this video, I’m also a DPS player and I have been the only person in my knowing complaining avidly about how overwatch 2 feels lifeless and like a shameless cash grab compared to the game we once loved. I also hate the 5v5 format and miss tank synergy and I don’t even play tank seriously.
I'm also a dps main and I miss the tank synergy too. There were so many cool interactions between the two and imo teams felt more like teams. It kind of feels like every player for themselves to me.
Just so people know- majority of the OW1 devs have left blizzard and the OW2 team consist mainly of new devs. This is why a lot of new skins look like they don't fit the style, balance for the game seem like they are trying to make this feel more generic shooter, and lore/new heroes/new voice lines seem like they're written by some kid playing with his Overwatch(tm) action figures.
Another thing about making the game feel more casual-friendly with all those passives: As a mostly casual player (1000+hours from OW1 and never made it past Masters), it still feels worse than OW1 because it feels like you are getting way too much value from counter-picking vs counter-playing(aka just picking the right heroes).
What I mean is that a lot of casuals just want to play a few heroes that they like (gameplay/lore etc). Another thing is, one tricks are annoying to play with but at least if they're good they could actually not be a huge burden. Now you get a one-trick on a bad hero and it's over before the game even starts.
ow 1 balance team were just as bad as ow2 is tbh.
❤
i left ow2 after season 4 and it's incredible that they are still somehow making this game a broken unfun mess
As a tank main i miss 6v6. I used to have the freedom to flank, dive, etc. Now my team flames me if I don’t stand in front of them the entire time and soak everything. I also miss being able to alternate with my other tank, once I get low I fall back and vice versa
5v5 is an INSANE intellectual step down for the game. games are so much less interesting and it fucking SUCKS. double shield like you said was a FIXABLE problem. Rammatra, Sojourn ult piercing shields, NOT NERFING DOOM AND REAPER WHEN THEY COUNTER DOUBLE SHIELD, the same thing for symmetra but they could have added that self heal on her beam, adding a barrier damage multiplier to certain abilities or to off tanks in general so that Zarya Hog would counter Double Shield or Zarya Rammatra, REMOVING FORTIFY, reworking immortality field, making echo beam ALWAYS do 200dps to shields, re-allowing Moira to heal through barriers with her spray so you can play Lucio Moira rush with rammatra Zarya and actually get through the shield without then blocking her healing. it wasn't a "bug" that she healed through shields with her spray because every other ability in her kit goes through barriers... those are all ways that 6v6 double shield could have been done away with but noooo the devs are/were idiots and decided they'd rather cop out to 1 tank than actually do their job correctly. Even goats probably could have been countered, Shanghai had that ball comp that I can only imagine would have been better with the Advent of junker queen. throwing enemies into a queens axe range so she can repeatedly swing that thing because of the cooldown reset and the bleeds and all of her healing. not to mention her ult could have done good shit against them, (if they let it go through barriers) they also could have added anti heal to certain abilities or statuses, mostly in the DPS role. Ashe dynamite reducing healing by 25% as long as someone's on fire. letting wrecking ball do the same with his ball form collisions, MAUGA, you could have let junk rat and Pharah light ppl on fire too. either with giving jump jet AoE or making primary directs ignite people. junkrats mines could have been igniters too. you could make hack a -25% healing too and then give it to Sombra, horse javelin, and ram vortex. slowing down and anti healing single targets to focus down. and since they're hacked Zarya can't fucking Cleanse it with bubble, bap can't Regen burst himself etcetc adding more DoT in general to the DPS category and removing burst damage would have prompted DPS to worm together even more and removed the cancerous burst of OW1s final days. Genji dash and blade bleeding enemies, junkrat and Pharah doing burn, Virus, Storm arrows doing electricity damage and slowing targets, removing widow's 300hp headshot and replacing it with a 150hp burst and a 150dps venom. adds counterplay but isn't super likely to deny her oneshots. especially not if you reworked venom mine to be a dart that antied enemies too. you could have given Lifeweaver a needler super combine explosion that antied enemies as well. maybe 15% since it's a primary fire. Rein firestrike, could also burn and Winston's secondary fire could do something similar to Hanzo. there were so so so many ways that they could have gone about decimating both goats and double shield but they CHOSE not to and now the quality of the games strategy has to suffer because everything unique about any hero is just stripped away and replaced with more fucking damage or healing. FLASHBANG? gone. it's a heat seeking 80dmg missile that has an effect that imo is even worse than flash fan. because at least he had to be close for that. Mei freeze? gone. 100dps cleave spray. Sombra hack? gone. increases damage of her virus (low-key useless most of the time btw) echos duplicate (one of the most interesting abilities in the game) doesn't even work how it originally was intended. she can hardly build a single ult on most heros and she especially cannot play a fucking Tank because god forbid 2tanks exist at a time. they even started stripping OW2 heroes of their identifies or uniqueness. sojourn is an incredibly oppressive hero don't get me wrong but they originally gave her a giant slowing field ability (sick as fuck) but then remembered that nobody but tanks and Ana can have CC so they removed it and now that orb can do 250+ damage over time. 😐. Brigitte lost her stun OH BUT DON'T WORRY it does 50 DMG now. even though most of the time the ability is better used as a dash to keep distance. illari might just exemplify what I'm taking about because originally they were going to give her a blind of maybe burn damage but they fucking coppednout again and limited themselves so now she's just a shit hero who's out valued by bap (yet again, fuck Baptiste) because all she does is healing and damage but bap does more of BOTH and has utility. mercy wasn't really a problem in 6v6 or OW1 towards the end. there was and always will be discourse but for them to take the only fucking aspect of her kit that was expressive and replace it with some Temu-esque resource meter was the dumbest shit ever, ESPECIALLY WHEN YOU GET PUNISHED FOR USING IT. so they took something that I and other people LEARNED how to do and learned when it was good to do and when it was bad to do. and they replaced it with some shitty gauge so that casuals could do it. now the hero is shit because that amount of consistency is ridiculous. hog has also been balanced around casuals even though his hook and him in general are some of the most counter able things in the entire game. they took his oneshot combo (his literal method of denying space btw, being scary) and gave him a trap????? stop balancing this game around casuals or it will die when something new and shiny comes along. stop stripping nuance from heroes and dulling this game down from a dagger to a club. stop pretending 5v5 is good and fun when every match is just counter swapping bullshit or if she's strong at the time horse mirrors. which everyone TOTALLY loves.... bring back dive, bring back double bubble, bring back rein Zarya. the tank role feels dysfunctional without a second tank to provide protection for the protector. Zarya bubble, defense matrix and to a certain extent hog hook were all useful abilities for saving your other tank from things that CURRENTLY make the tank role a fucking Nightmare to play WITH and AGAINST.
Seeing this video and many others like it makes me cry a bit. I used to play this game a lot back in OW1 but the passion left me before I could achieve my goal of top 500. I peaked around low GM/high masters area (3955 SR I believe) and was at one point the rank 23 Genji on overbuff. This game is like a good friend who got addicted to drugs and ended up getting hospitalized. No one on this planet has hurt me more than Blizzard Entertainment. I came back for a bit in Overwatch 2, thought things were going to get better but I hated 5v5 but everyone's coping that it's better. Way less interaction, way less fun, way less skill ceiling. The straw that broke the camel's back for me was the addition of Lifeweaver. When I saw Lifegrip I immediately went and uninstalled the game. A support having that much agency and denial is too much. Not only is it frustrating to play against but also if your support doesn't like you, they'll just troll you by picking Lifeweaver and pulling you. As a Genji especially, you already have to think about how you're going to outplay the enemy but now you have to think about outplaying your own team?? Nah man, I was just done. I hope this game bounces back but the entire dev team needs to be replaced because they have zero fucking clue what they're doing with the game and what made it truly enjoyable in the first place. Otherwise, this game's future looks bleak. Anyhow that's my piece.
this man just be spiting facts out to the world on this game. I was a tank ball main, now you can't do shit with him, reworked yet again and still the same shit.
Before the game even released we had critics knowing exactly what would happen. Dunkey saying that steamrolling would get worse, tanks being unkillable monsters. It’s just not fun.
As a dps main I enjoy the game, but I remember that on OW1 I liked to sometimes to flex playing off-tank, but nowadays I never want to queue up tank, I cant no longer be playing like an off-tank flanking with zarya or doom because you gotta play the telegraphed tank or you are selling your whole team, so much responsibility on your hands to make a risky play
Thank you, from a low diamond player who is now in high silver. This game feels like a vanilla Shotter where every character is almost the same and tank just eats every dam cool down.
like you, i played overwatch since it's early infancy and loved team synergy, it was so rewarding to collaborate with strangers. I left when 5v5 released only to come back recently, and agree entirely with your position. the game is fun for a week but the removal of what made the game fun and unique makes it ever so frustrating to play
I felt this in my soul. Was hardcore into OW1 and stopped immediately after OW2 dropped. Zero team play, guns felt super floaty and now OW1 is dead and gone.
I met one of my best buddies in OW1. We both OTP tanks, Hog and Rein. Playing together as a tank duo brought us together, and the removal of a tank cause us to duo significantly less. Hog, Rein, and pretty much every other character on the OW2 roster were not designed for a 5v5 format, and forcing the game into a 5v5 format by stripping heroes of their identities is what’s killing Overwatch.
Glad to hear at least one ow1 dps main defending old hog, as an old hog main I miss him so much
Youve perfectly summarized my recent thoughts i loved this game was even gonna start streaming it, but the last few seasons as a tank main have been just boring. Every tank feeling the same is truly the worst direction for tank to go when it comes to fun(which is the most important factor no matter what anyone else says. Keep up the work man id love to see more from you
I was top 500 in OW1 and even coached GM level teams. Credentials aside, my biggest gripe with the one tank format is that it gives a single player the ability to take their team hostage. If you had a main tank that just ints, you could run two main tanks and try to make that work. Now, you can't. I have had so many ball players just go feed 1v5, hogs flanking alone and inting, that I lost count. You can not do anything about this scenario in OW2. If your tank refuses to cooperate you are just done.
Just say feed. You sound dumb af saying "inting"
Everyone remembers double shield but I remember the last couple seasons of OW1 where you could play anything and win. It honestly felt like the game was in a healthy state.
i'm glad to hear so many people coming out of the woodwork to yell about 5v5
it's fucking infuriating
an apology is warranted at this point tbh
idk if it's just me, but the way companies conduct themselves, it genuinely feels like there is a threat to them for opening communication and addressing their communities directly
i was incredibly shocked when the dev team named Eskay specifically and spoke on her concerns, such contact is unheard of
i think the community would be similarly happy if they swallowed their pride and peeled the "2" sticker off their logo once and for all
I preferred 6v6 yes. I don't think it could or should go back though. Doubling the bottleneck to finding a game by increasing the requirement to 2 tanks would feel terrible. Without going over every point, the reality is the devs have proven they couldn't balance 6v6, might as well try a little longer in 5v5.
I'm a support main and I agree about their power level. The game feels worst when they are busted.
Well said. However I doubt 2 tanks would be that much of a bottleneck, people forget the game went f2p so should have way more players. Unless there are some other factors that make people not want to play the format or something...
I think the thing that I really hated about tank was exactly that feeling of NEEDING to rely on my teammates to secure the kills I just cannot get without completely forfeiting my life that fight. Most of my wins in Diamond were literally just me fighting the other tank and supports to the best of my ability, i bait all their CDs, likely die before i kill one of the supports or i manage to kill one, then die and PRAY my teammates can finish the job.
I mean it was either that or we just stream rolled the other team, hardly any other result aside from obvious getting stomped.
Tank was already one of the most blamed, thankless roles. Now you're quite literally a punching bag for everyone.
This all coming from a Support main btw. I really feel for tanks. The tanking experience feels so powerless. The entire match is just "which tank has better support and do the dps follow up or not" unless there's some MASSIVE tank gap that's usually the way it plays out.
I miss 6v6 tank combos, the tank synergy made the game so much more fun, because the game encouraged team coordination which makes sense because it’s a team based game, but alot of the changes just seem to be allowing for people to play the game as if it’s just a tdm which is boring. OW had a chance to do something great for the gaming community by being a game that encouraged unity and collaboration but it dropped the pve story which is nuts because the game is full of characters with these interconnected stories but you get almost none of it in game which reduces their personalities to just quirky voice lines or fan fiction style head canon story bases which suck
Idk how many people remember this, but in early development for ow1, the devs said that most of the choke points on maps (ex. Hollywood 1st point, almost all 2cp maps, kings row 1st, so on) were built around Reinhardt’s shield size. Almost like the game at a fundamental level was build around Rein and the devs seem to have just forgotten that 🤷♂️
Its so nice seeing more people share this idea. I am the average overwatch player, gold rank since ow1. I used to love playing tank, me and my buddy camden on rein zarya was so much fun. Ever since 5v5 ive felt the FUN of the game just disapear. QP is in ruin, full of sweats who WILL counter swap you the whole game so they can win. The format is inherently broken and flawed. I miss my tank duo and i miss when this game required thinking and execution. Now its just "counter swap the tank until you win." Im sick of it, im so tired of it. I want to love this game but its hard to with the format and 5v5ers telling me i have rose tinted glasses.
I peaked masters in season 8 one-tricking lucio. That was the last time I can genuinely say I had fun playing comp, but the writing was definitely on the wall before way before that. Uninstalled about 3 days ago and it'll take a drastic shift in balance to bring me back.
Oh man i havent even had the word overwatch enter my head for over a year and seeing this brought back so many great memories but also so much sadness from what happened. I played this game SO much, started in 2017 ish and even though i got annoyed and frustrated sometimes, i LOVED Overwatch, made so many great friends and had so much fun, even towards the end when they werent updating the game it was a blast. This game got me through COVID. Spent most of my time in Plat and towards the end reached high diamond on two roles. From the moment they announced 5v5 i knew it was over. It makes me genuinely sad to look at what became of this game. I didnt really get to take part in any of the "golden years" of certain games, i wasnt involved in COD in the xbox live days, i Didnt play Wow or runescape.
Overwatch was the closest i had to that. Ended up semi-quitting before Overwatch 2 even released because i didnt need to try it to know id hate it. I did end up playing it a bit but it didnt click, it wasnt the game i loved anymore. Im not sure ill ever be into a game competitively as much as i was with OW again. It truly was a unique experience and they turned it into a cheap copy of itself.
Man, but the characters now arent made for the 6v6 format
2016 tank veteran here, I peaked 3490 on season 16 on overwatch 1, Masters 4 on Ow2. Solo tank is the most miserable experience you could ever encounter in gaming, with double tank you has flexibility in every aspect. Playing off tank mainly ball and hog was so much more rewarding because their whole point was to disrupt back lines and punish errors made by the enemy team. What even is the point of ball anymore in ow2? If you play him as a main tank he is garbage because his kit isn’t built for it, and if you play him normally your entire team dies because they don’t have a main tank to protect them while you flank and do ball stuff. There’s a doom against me, I go orisa, they go zarya, I go Winston, they go dva. Constant counter picking over and over. Your team doesn’t help either, most dps and support players especially on Europe RARELY ever switch, you are left to multitask everything in the game, I’m expected to dive the backline supports as orisa while contesting the enemy tank in a choke while also creating space for my dps who’s getting diffed
As a tank player I want to believe 6 v 6 would fix issues, but tbh I could see the meta being orisa mauga which sounds like cancer
playing without an off tank just doesnt work, i cant flank without support+dmg mfs killing me off instantly.
Just wanted to say I completely agree that 6v6 > 5v5
But we all know that blizzards ego will never allow this. They either completely abandon 5v5 which I doubt they will do, or at this point, lose players
I joined ow2 season 1 and found that Dva monkey and rein play styles really resonated with me (in order from my most played to least) I’d absolutely love to play Dva and not have every punch, sleep, discord (which is a problem in it of itself), etc. directed at me.
I do wish that i could have played during ow1s prime even if im still having fun on ow2. Hell, maybe I’d even play hog. His concept in 6v6 seems really funny.
Just an opinion from a diamond tank player
Yeah god forbid the tank dies because once he does the whole opposing team rolls you.
As someone who started playing Overwatch the week after it came out, and stopped playing two months after they introduced 5v5, I would consider giving the game another shot if it reintroduced 6v6
Another "Gaim baed but oh boi how much I play and pay" moment.