A theory I have about Agnu, is that he was someone close to Cat-Lon (maybe a friend, or a general). When Cat-Lon ordered the thralling of all skeletons, he spared his friend, but order him to be locked down instead. Eventually, due to the time Agnu spend imprisoned, his CPU lost capabilities making him the way he is. Following this theory, a possible explanation for his wholesome relationship with Beep might be because he sees Beep as this pure, cheerful and innocent human like creature which gives him hope about the future. Maybe in Kenshi 2 we could see a return of Agnu as an important character and finally learn the real lore around him. I would definitely like to know more.
The Ashlands look like the remains of a HIVE CITY (not hiver city), like the ones you see in Hyperion and 40k, you even have a "sump" in the middle, right under the space elevator. This is exactly how these cities were builet. The fact that the Second Empire domes look like hives may be a cultural remnance or a misseterpreted nomeclature of what their acestors used to live in. Imagine that all you have left from them is a name and you try to reproduce their success by mimicing everything they did, including terminology for things you don't understand. We could even image a conversation between 2 Second Empire Yokel that might go on the lne of this: Yokel: "What was a hive city?" Yokel 2: "Well, it must have been made out of buildings shaped like Hives?"
i can't wait for the new Kenshi...think it'd be kinda neat to see early sheks! also how much better the prosthetics would be...might even get my speed up to a flat 50mph!
Probably early sheks will look like the ones we see in kenshi 1 because they are also favorite species for many. What I would like to see if they use the female sheks as baseline and the male sheks also have their horns aswell. Maybe smaller and the body bones also smaller / toned down. These changes possible will not hurt the lore also keeping the species differentiated enough. What I really would like to see is a merfolk people (prior to fishmen) and maybe the stenn race which was cut off from the game and only exists in the concept arts. Another changes requires is the scorchlanders because they clearly differ from greenlander which are regular humans. As long as the game remains moddable we will see more lore friendly factions, races and even map addons.
Did you know that ironfist and beep used to be married? Believe it or not, beep was top. This wore on iron fist, and he eventually grew tired of being bottom and erased beeps memory and sent him to mongrel.
It has always been my theory that the moon of Kenshi is slightly smaller than earth, having a lighter gravity allows for the extreme geography we see (in terms of the steep gradients throughout). And that the planet is a superearth with significantly stronger gravity, based on it's size in the sky, and as such may not be suitable for human habitation, at least not on the surface.
I think it's somewhere between Mercury (a bit larger than Earth's moon) and Mars (a bit smaller than Earth) in size but uncharacteristically dense due to the terraforming process, having between 85 and 90% of Earth's gravity. That would allow the planet it's locked around to be smaller and more habitable, however if Kenshi underwent the apocalypse, it's possible the Earthlike planet it orbited also saw the Skeleton uprising, and could be in a similar state, society-wise, but without the extreme pollution and changes to the topography that Kenshi underwent. Just as those on Kensi may stare up at the planet and wonder what's happening down there, people on the Planet may be staring up at Kenshi and wondering what it's like on that moon. They can see with the naked eye the green of the swamps and Okran's Pride, the haze of the acid storm ravaging the Deadlands, and the perpetual dust storm swirling around the desert near the crashed Eye satellite, but not much beyond that. Any further detail, such as the location of cities, would require a telescope. The lights are too few and far between to cause enough light pollution to be easily visible through two atmospheres, especially since night on Kenshi tends to be during the day on the Planet, and vice versa.
I just assumed Agnu was a recent captive of the Thrall Masters and was in the process of getting thralled when your group shows up. The inability to speak is a result of the voice box being damaged/destroyed/removed during thralling. Agnu's periodic bouts of uncontrollability seem to be either a trauma response (when entering venge again, starts freaking out like they don't want to be there) or celebratory relief at being free (when anywhere else, laughs like a crazy person). Just my interpretation
Sad i missed the ama. Not that i have questions… Great vid tho Besides maybe do you think the world of kenshi will ever recover? And if so, wich faction do you think has the highest potential to make the moon live-worthy again.
Can they recover? Probably not tbh. Not until the full scars of the past dissolve into obscurity. I really think a full reset would need to happen. As for what faction has the potential to make the moon live-worthy. I really hate to say it for obvious reasons. But the Holy Nation is likely the best chance for a stable faction to experience peace. Granted it would only be for humans. But the holy nation is the only faction in the game where its people are fed, protected, and have the real potential to live prosperous lives so long as they contribute to the greater faction as a whole. The others cant really say that as they are all experiencing civil war, internal abuse of power, or a class system that is so rigid and difficult to maneuver that most people cant hope for even scraps. They also have almost no ability to move freely even within their own borders. Where as HN territory is pretty safe for travel and the goverment at large protects property of its people. They likely wouldn't move forward technologically but they at current are the most stable, well defined, and probable to create a functioning society that lasts into the future even with all their issues and beliefs.
I liked this question answer video and I am happy the devs gave some life signs from a huge hiatus. Hopefully the game development time will not take as long and according to the blog they have something which is playable (for them) so possible we could see something in the next one or two year. The change for the latest unreal engine was logical step and hopefully the amount of features in it will speed up the development. Beyond this my opinion Kenshi was a place that looked okay to the spacefaring civilization to settle down or they had no other options. In my opinion the other bodies had no life on their own surfaces otherwise they would have picked the planet and not the moons. Also the star what we see in the game is looks similar to the Sun so it is a similar star which means the planetary system of kenshi is roughly in the same place as Earth orbits from the Sun. +-10 million km. I personally would want to know what characters will be in that time line and which new characters we would meet in the game. There are very few games which have notale characters and while in Bannerlord there are a lot of recruitable person but these characters are not as memorable as Deshavi or Klethi from Warband. What I mean by this I hope the new characters will get as much or more love from the devs and they will build up notable characters with more complexity. I am sure Beep will not be in the game so other memorable characters need to be written.
If Kenshi 2 is right after the fall of the second empire, they could realistically retcon the Shek as having been genetically modified earlier. After all, Skeletons such as Iyo are known to be actively repressing knowledge of what actually happened throughout Kenshi's history, and every skeleton in general is very hushed about what actually happened, likely at least in part out of fear of another crusade against them a-la what happened during the war that destroyed the First Empire. Retcons could be played off as Skeletons having repressed knowledge of the past and substituting it with a more mild turn of events; such as the Enforcers being made near the end of the Second Empire when in reality they could have been made near the beginning, or even by the First Empire as super-soldiers to fight against the Skeletons. Also, the Headless Body of Agnew in Futurama was Nixon's vice president, Spiro Agnew, who resigned from his position in 1973 over allegations of corruption and a criminal investigation involving his time as Governor of Maryland. He was one of only two VPs to resign during their incumbency. Not very Agnu-like.
why do you think hivers are second empire? they're alot less human than sheks even and they are capable of making electricals in the modern day for just selling, they should be more than capable of making an incubator, plus it's a hivemind, so the hivers would probably remember skeletons doing horrible things to them, ESPECIALLY if you think the hive queens are very old. i find it alot more likely that the hivers are natives of the moon that migrated by sea to the continent we see in-game, the people of kenshi know boats exist so it's very possible
To answer that I'd defer you here as its a very long explanation with a lot of evidence to back it. th-cam.com/video/5VWLcQOHvqs/w-d-xo.htmlsi=FIrnZaes__DgXxgu
@@HeroInHisHeadsome issues/general questions/remarks relating to your video -praetorians are a mod -several times you mention "1000 years", ignoring the fact that the second empire fell 900 years ago at the very earliest, i say this because catch, as a town was at the doorstep of the holy nation, the largest enemy of the second empire, thus it would have fallen very quickly come the degredation -southern hive territory throughout history is entirely unknown, because it is virtually impossible in an environment like the one they live in for their huts to fossilize or stay intact for very long, and we don't really have any other ways to study this -what makes you think the king is second empire made? is it not more reasonable to assume king is old empire tech? king bears a similar skeleton-like appearance to the skeletons themselves, too -"the cult of stobe" is likely just an offshoot off of chitrinism from after the second empires fall, much like the crab cult is. i do however agree with you that chitrinism was a big issue for cat-lon, just not that stobe played a part in it, although he very likely could have given how silent skeletons are on the issue. -i disagree that hivers evolved from spiders, i see it a much better explanation that they were genetically created during the early chaos age along with beak things, gorillos, land bats and raptors. -where is it implied that a parasite is the cause of the fogmen? i'll go into more detail upon request
@ladyeyegore OK. So I'll address these in order as it appears you have a few misunderstandings on my theory. - The Preatorians issue I actually address in the description of the video and doesn't detract or change anything in the video. But it was addressed. - I'm not ignoring a fact of the empires fall as it's been stated in several discussions with LoFi themselves including Chris in an AMA that the second empire was basically already dead/ dying 1000 years back (when kenshi 2 will take place at the tail end of the 2nd empire post collapse. A fact also confirmed in the same AMA). The second empires collapse also wasn't quick or decisive. It was a slow collective giving up that didn't necessarily destroy the infrastructure of individual cities (im assuming you are referencing the fact the AK refers to catch as a booming 2nd empire town) Cities weren't destroyed and sacked. As for the town of Catch. While it is close to HN territory, it was likely in the mountains and fell into Wend over the last millenia. The fact the HN hasn't gone after the AK yet despite him being there for over 900 years is proof that proximity means very little. - I am not sure what you mean by the huts not being able to "fossilize" so we don't know anything about them in the area. The Hiver houses are indicated to be made from essentially hardened vomit. Dialogue is pretty clear on that. Not sure what the rest has to do with anything else. - I didn't say King was made by the second empire just that he was originally aligned with the 2nd Empire as a Crimper. This is both contextually assumed as it goes with the theory the Hivers are 2nd Empire Genetically modified humans and King appears to be involved in their reproduction process. The process which I detail at length so I won't repeat it here. He was obviously made by the 1st empire as all constructs and skeletons were. But that doesn't mean the hivers are that old. The same logic could be applied to the Shek who are very clearly second empire creations of the skeletons through genetic modification, something I detail HEAVILY in my shek and second empire videos. Just because the shek were made by skeletons and the skeletons made by the 1st, doesn't mean the shek are as old as the 1st, ya see? - The Cult of Chitrin was an evolution of the Cult of Stobe as the skeletons of the 2nd began to Crack down on the Cult and anti skeleton views became more prevalent in its ranks. It was only around the 1st pheonix that it took its final leap to eventually become what we know as the Holy Nation. My choice to still use the cult of stobe over the Cult of Chritrin or HN is just for the sake of simplicity so everyone knows what I'm talking about. I'm not saying they were still called the cult of stobe. I'm saying that the cult of chitrin, the holy nation, the cult of stobe, they're all the same things just at different points in their history. Again I dig into this in real detail on my 2nd Empire Video. - I didn't say the Hivers evolved from Skin Spiders. That's a complete misunderstanding of the story. We know that the Shek were created in the second Empire by genetically modifying humans and they were used to spy on the cult. So we know that they are not afraid and capable of using genetic modification to deal with their problems. So when you have a mass famine. Issues with insubordination. And inhospitable regions where their farming used to be (check my short on the Grid) It is absolutely in the realm of probability that they would use the same tactic that they used to deal with the cult to try and fix the problem. This tendency to reuse the same tactics was present through the entirety of the second empire and Is one of the key points of Catlin's story. He was falling to madness he tried to do the same things over and over and over again, expecting different results. And they always ended the same. He recreated the sense of the past well, trying to avoid them, but doing the same thing that got them there in the first place.. so there is a famine, and just like with the cult they would use humans and genetic modification just as they did with the enforcers to try and fix the problem. As the base template, they would make them less prone to famine more capable of dealing with the local environment and subservient dealing with all 3 of the issues, they were facing at the end of the Empire. This is even further backed up by the fact that the hivers were nowhere on the continent prior to the end of the second Empire. This is very well documented in several dialogue options as well. As well as the way the skeletons react to them in the deadlands. Lastly, to answer the skin spider portion of it. I don't think that hibers evolved from skin spiders. Or skins spiders evolved from hibers. I think that the hivers were the perfected version and the skins spiders were the genetic failures that came about when creating the hivers in the first place. I think that they are genetically related from the same experimentation process. But the hivers were successful. The skin spiders were not. I personally don't think they're native because I don't think they would have waited until the end of the second Empire to just suddenly show up. I just don't think it makes any sense. And while I understand why people think that way II just don't think that it lines up with the fact that every race on kenshi is man-made. The Shek were man-made. The skeletons were man-made. The humans are man made. And then you have the hivers that are not? That does make sense. Thematically It doesn't make sense. - The parasite thing is just the most common and widely accepted fan theory about why the fog men are the way they are. The truth is, as we have no idea what caused them to become the dead hive. But I used my current theory and understanding based on everything that i've explained in the video on the hivers as well as this comment to create a possible alternative that's all. Hope that clears things up. But ultimately it's a big game of theories and maybe you're right and I'm wrong. Or maybe both of us are wrong. That's kind of the fun 😁
@@HeroInHisHead 2 - this does not line up with what we see in game, i don't see how catch could have been a "prosperous" market town 900 years ago if the empire was "basically already dead" 1000 years ago, AFAIK catch had no support network like the northern cities did (which branched off to become the UC), i considered that it could have been part of deadcat but deadcat was a holy nation region before the cannibal outbreak (which was probably before 900 years ago but i haven't studied kenshi lore in a very long time). it could be possible that the holy nation had a very lenient view on second empire exiles, as we know almost for sure that the holy nation was alot more relaxed even 100 years ago, it's just not possible that catch could have been a prosperous town when it's only neighbors are cannibals and people actively at war with them. i understand that it was a slow process, what i meant was that the holy nation if they were at war with cities even leaving the second empire (i did not consider that they might not have been until now) would take advantage of catch's weakness and either burn it to the ground or capture it. i'm very split on catch falling into the river, there aren't any places that it could have been (that i can see in the modern terrain) except for the library town, which is already occupied and too small and isolated for a proper trading town, and also the buildings there are ruined while the ones in the river are not (WHAT THE HELL KENSHI ARCHEOLOGY!??!?!), i don't know what that could signify. 3 - the point is that if hiver huts could fossilize in an environment like that we would be able to see the extent of the southern hive in the past, but we can't. i don't know if this would ever be implemented, though, i hate having to discard evidence (or lack thereof) based on gameplay mechanics and insufficient development times. 4 - misunderstanding then, and i don't understand the second part of this paragraph, i don't know how this is relevant and i do not subscribe to that train of logic (if i understand what it is, i probably don't) 5 - misunderstanding, then, if kenshi lore was more of a focus in the community (might have changed, i haven't been in the kenshi community for a long time because it's a generally awful place to be) you probably would've put a disclaimer for seething autists like me 6 - i have no comment on the first ~2/3rds of this paragraph, but theres alot to unpack in the last third. first of all i never called them native, i called them gene-modified humans, difference is i think they originated as a method of chaos unto the humans by the skeletons in the early chaos age. also, what's the issue with hivers being natives if fishmen are natives? if you think fishmen can be natives and it isn't too thematically inappropriate to discard that theory alltogether, why don't you extend this to the hivers? oh and about the deadlands thing, how do we know that the hivers weren't dormant in a similar way the fishmen were? perhaps they were driven into hiding by the old empire invading their lands before skeletons started being manufactuerd on kenshi, only recently having resurfaced (maybe even on this continent), maybe the hivers evolved to such an extent that the skeletons don't recognize them, or the hives they did know were so radically different that they could not tell that they were part of the same group, there are many possible explanations as to why the skeletons would not recognize the hivers if they were natives. sidenote: when i said the boat thing i forgot about skeletons and the hundreds of boats littering the southeast, MB on that one, but i'm writing this sleep deprived and with dissasociative amnesia so it's to be expected, if i condradict myself on anything i have said here take the awake me's answer for my actual thoughts on the matter i think i missed something but i'm too tired for that rn, i'm glad that there is atleast ONE other person who cares about this stuff as much as i do (i discovered your channel through the steam page for the update)
![[MV] A leap of faith...ความเชื่อใจครั้งสุดท้าย (From "Petrichor the series")](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/U1piZH2CNXA/mqdefault.jpg)
Good stuff! Really pleased that the new blog has let me discover some great new creators
I'm stoked you enjoyed my friend. I'm a big fan of your own content as well! I love that we get to be apart of this amazing community together.
Slippin!? Love your vids, man
@@HeroInHisHead Thank you Hero :) It is really great. Lofi clearly care a lot about the community which is nice
@@bboi1489 Thank you mate
A theory I have about Agnu, is that he was someone close to Cat-Lon (maybe a friend, or a general). When Cat-Lon ordered the thralling of all skeletons, he spared his friend, but order him to be locked down instead. Eventually, due to the time Agnu spend imprisoned, his CPU lost capabilities making him the way he is.
Following this theory, a possible explanation for his wholesome relationship with Beep might be because he sees Beep as this pure, cheerful and innocent human like creature which gives him hope about the future.
Maybe in Kenshi 2 we could see a return of Agnu as an important character and finally learn the real lore around him. I would definitely like to know more.
speaking of character theories. I hope we see BugMaster in K2. I really wanna see why hes the way he is and if he really was immortal.
The Ashlands look like the remains of a HIVE CITY (not hiver city), like the ones you see in Hyperion and 40k, you even have a "sump" in the middle, right under the space elevator. This is exactly how these cities were builet.
The fact that the Second Empire domes look like hives may be a cultural remnance or a misseterpreted nomeclature of what their acestors used to live in. Imagine that all you have left from them is a name and you try to reproduce their success by mimicing everything they did, including terminology for things you don't understand.
We could even image a conversation between 2 Second Empire Yokel that might go on the lne of this:
Yokel: "What was a hive city?"
Yokel 2: "Well, it must have been made out of buildings shaped like Hives?"
you're a hero in my head to sir! your kenshi content is enrapturing. much love
i can't wait for the new Kenshi...think it'd be kinda neat to see early sheks! also how much better the prosthetics would be...might even get my speed up to a flat 50mph!
Probably early sheks will look like the ones we see in kenshi 1 because they are also favorite species for many. What I would like to see if they use the female sheks as baseline and the male sheks also have their horns aswell. Maybe smaller and the body bones also smaller / toned down. These changes possible will not hurt the lore also keeping the species differentiated enough. What I really would like to see is a merfolk people (prior to fishmen) and maybe the stenn race which was cut off from the game and only exists in the concept arts. Another changes requires is the scorchlanders because they clearly differ from greenlander which are regular humans.
As long as the game remains moddable we will see more lore friendly factions, races and even map addons.
Did you know that ironfist and beep used to be married?
Believe it or not, beep was top. This wore on iron fist, and he eventually grew tired of being bottom and erased beeps memory and sent him to mongrel.
Part of me died reading this...
You can still delete this bro
I love your channel, keep up with the great work!
It has always been my theory that the moon of Kenshi is slightly smaller than earth, having a lighter gravity allows for the extreme geography we see (in terms of the steep gradients throughout). And that the planet is a superearth with significantly stronger gravity, based on it's size in the sky, and as such may not be suitable for human habitation, at least not on the surface.
I think it's somewhere between Mercury (a bit larger than Earth's moon) and Mars (a bit smaller than Earth) in size but uncharacteristically dense due to the terraforming process, having between 85 and 90% of Earth's gravity. That would allow the planet it's locked around to be smaller and more habitable, however if Kenshi underwent the apocalypse, it's possible the Earthlike planet it orbited also saw the Skeleton uprising, and could be in a similar state, society-wise, but without the extreme pollution and changes to the topography that Kenshi underwent. Just as those on Kensi may stare up at the planet and wonder what's happening down there, people on the Planet may be staring up at Kenshi and wondering what it's like on that moon. They can see with the naked eye the green of the swamps and Okran's Pride, the haze of the acid storm ravaging the Deadlands, and the perpetual dust storm swirling around the desert near the crashed Eye satellite, but not much beyond that. Any further detail, such as the location of cities, would require a telescope. The lights are too few and far between to cause enough light pollution to be easily visible through two atmospheres, especially since night on Kenshi tends to be during the day on the Planet, and vice versa.
I just assumed Agnu was a recent captive of the Thrall Masters and was in the process of getting thralled when your group shows up. The inability to speak is a result of the voice box being damaged/destroyed/removed during thralling. Agnu's periodic bouts of uncontrollability seem to be either a trauma response (when entering venge again, starts freaking out like they don't want to be there) or celebratory relief at being free (when anywhere else, laughs like a crazy person). Just my interpretation
This is a very good video, the free camera really looks good as well
Glad Lofi got back to you! Great video!
Sad i missed the ama. Not that i have questions…
Great vid tho
Besides maybe do you think the world of kenshi will ever recover? And if so, wich faction do you think has the highest potential to make the moon live-worthy again.
Can they recover? Probably not tbh. Not until the full scars of the past dissolve into obscurity. I really think a full reset would need to happen.
As for what faction has the potential to make the moon live-worthy. I really hate to say it for obvious reasons. But the Holy Nation is likely the best chance for a stable faction to experience peace. Granted it would only be for humans. But the holy nation is the only faction in the game where its people are fed, protected, and have the real potential to live prosperous lives so long as they contribute to the greater faction as a whole. The others cant really say that as they are all experiencing civil war, internal abuse of power, or a class system that is so rigid and difficult to maneuver that most people cant hope for even scraps. They also have almost no ability to move freely even within their own borders. Where as HN territory is pretty safe for travel and the goverment at large protects property of its people. They likely wouldn't move forward technologically but they at current are the most stable, well defined, and probable to create a functioning society that lasts into the future even with all their issues and beliefs.
I liked this question answer video and I am happy the devs gave some life signs from a huge hiatus. Hopefully the game development time will not take as long and according to the blog they have something which is playable (for them) so possible we could see something in the next one or two year. The change for the latest unreal engine was logical step and hopefully the amount of features in it will speed up the development.
Beyond this my opinion Kenshi was a place that looked okay to the spacefaring civilization to settle down or they had no other options. In my opinion the other bodies had no life on their own surfaces otherwise they would have picked the planet and not the moons. Also the star what we see in the game is looks similar to the Sun so it is a similar star which means the planetary system of kenshi is roughly in the same place as Earth orbits from the Sun. +-10 million km.
I personally would want to know what characters will be in that time line and which new characters we would meet in the game. There are very few games which have notale characters and while in Bannerlord there are a lot of recruitable person but these characters are not as memorable as Deshavi or Klethi from Warband. What I mean by this I hope the new characters will get as much or more love from the devs and they will build up notable characters with more complexity. I am sure Beep will not be in the game so other memorable characters need to be written.
If Kenshi 2 is right after the fall of the second empire, they could realistically retcon the Shek as having been genetically modified earlier. After all, Skeletons such as Iyo are known to be actively repressing knowledge of what actually happened throughout Kenshi's history, and every skeleton in general is very hushed about what actually happened, likely at least in part out of fear of another crusade against them a-la what happened during the war that destroyed the First Empire. Retcons could be played off as Skeletons having repressed knowledge of the past and substituting it with a more mild turn of events; such as the Enforcers being made near the end of the Second Empire when in reality they could have been made near the beginning, or even by the First Empire as super-soldiers to fight against the Skeletons.
Also, the Headless Body of Agnew in Futurama was Nixon's vice president, Spiro Agnew, who resigned from his position in 1973 over allegations of corruption and a criminal investigation involving his time as Governor of Maryland. He was one of only two VPs to resign during their incumbency. Not very Agnu-like.
the communty wants hot shek waifus with horns and exoskelett in unreal engine 5 resolution !!
Can't wait to go to titan
What do you know about the Spider Forman? I can’t find anything on the guy.
A moon could be habitable-
Only real difference between a planet and moon is what they orbit more frequently.
shek probably look like japanese oni....
why do you think hivers are second empire? they're alot less human than sheks even and they are capable of making electricals in the modern day for just selling, they should be more than capable of making an incubator, plus it's a hivemind, so the hivers would probably remember skeletons doing horrible things to them, ESPECIALLY if you think the hive queens are very old.
i find it alot more likely that the hivers are natives of the moon that migrated by sea to the continent we see in-game, the people of kenshi know boats exist so it's very possible
To answer that I'd defer you here as its a very long explanation with a lot of evidence to back it.
th-cam.com/video/5VWLcQOHvqs/w-d-xo.htmlsi=FIrnZaes__DgXxgu
@@HeroInHisHeadsome issues/general questions/remarks relating to your video
-praetorians are a mod
-several times you mention "1000 years", ignoring the fact that the second empire fell 900 years ago at the very earliest, i say this because catch, as a town was at the doorstep of the holy nation, the largest enemy of the second empire, thus it would have fallen very quickly come the degredation
-southern hive territory throughout history is entirely unknown, because it is virtually impossible in an environment like the one they live in for their huts to fossilize or stay intact for very long, and we don't really have any other ways to study this
-what makes you think the king is second empire made? is it not more reasonable to assume king is old empire tech? king bears a similar skeleton-like appearance to the skeletons themselves, too
-"the cult of stobe" is likely just an offshoot off of chitrinism from after the second empires fall, much like the crab cult is. i do however agree with you that chitrinism was a big issue for cat-lon, just not that stobe played a part in it, although he very likely could have given how silent skeletons are on the issue.
-i disagree that hivers evolved from spiders, i see it a much better explanation that they were genetically created during the early chaos age along with beak things, gorillos, land bats and raptors.
-where is it implied that a parasite is the cause of the fogmen?
i'll go into more detail upon request
@ladyeyegore OK. So I'll address these in order as it appears you have a few misunderstandings on my theory.
- The Preatorians issue I actually address in the description of the video and doesn't detract or change anything in the video. But it was addressed.
- I'm not ignoring a fact of the empires fall as it's been stated in several discussions with LoFi themselves including Chris in an AMA that the second empire was basically already dead/ dying 1000 years back (when kenshi 2 will take place at the tail end of the 2nd empire post collapse. A fact also confirmed in the same AMA). The second empires collapse also wasn't quick or decisive. It was a slow collective giving up that didn't necessarily destroy the infrastructure of individual cities (im assuming you are referencing the fact the AK refers to catch as a booming 2nd empire town) Cities weren't destroyed and sacked. As for the town of Catch. While it is close to HN territory, it was likely in the mountains and fell into Wend over the last millenia. The fact the HN hasn't gone after the AK yet despite him being there for over 900 years is proof that proximity means very little.
- I am not sure what you mean by the huts not being able to "fossilize" so we don't know anything about them in the area. The Hiver houses are indicated to be made from essentially hardened vomit. Dialogue is pretty clear on that. Not sure what the rest has to do with anything else.
- I didn't say King was made by the second empire just that he was originally aligned with the 2nd Empire as a Crimper. This is both contextually assumed as it goes with the theory the Hivers are 2nd Empire Genetically modified humans and King appears to be involved in their reproduction process. The process which I detail at length so I won't repeat it here. He was obviously made by the 1st empire as all constructs and skeletons were. But that doesn't mean the hivers are that old. The same logic could be applied to the Shek who are very clearly second empire creations of the skeletons through genetic modification, something I detail HEAVILY in my shek and second empire videos. Just because the shek were made by skeletons and the skeletons made by the 1st, doesn't mean the shek are as old as the 1st, ya see?
- The Cult of Chitrin was an evolution of the Cult of Stobe as the skeletons of the 2nd began to Crack down on the Cult and anti skeleton views became more prevalent in its ranks. It was only around the 1st pheonix that it took its final leap to eventually become what we know as the Holy Nation. My choice to still use the cult of stobe over the Cult of Chritrin or HN is just for the sake of simplicity so everyone knows what I'm talking about. I'm not saying they were still called the cult of stobe. I'm saying that the cult of chitrin, the holy nation, the cult of stobe, they're all the same things just at different points in their history. Again I dig into this in real detail on my 2nd Empire Video.
- I didn't say the Hivers evolved from Skin Spiders. That's a complete misunderstanding of the story. We know that the Shek were created in the second Empire by genetically modifying humans and they were used to spy on the cult. So we know that they are not afraid and capable of using genetic modification to deal with their problems. So when you have a mass famine. Issues with insubordination. And inhospitable regions where their farming used to be (check my short on the Grid) It is absolutely in the realm of probability that they would use the same tactic that they used to deal with the cult to try and fix the problem. This tendency to reuse the same tactics was present through the entirety of the second empire and Is one of the key points of Catlin's story. He was falling to madness he tried to do the same things over and over and over again, expecting different results. And they always ended the same. He recreated the sense of the past well, trying to avoid them, but doing the same thing that got them there in the first place.. so there is a famine, and just like with the cult they would use humans and genetic modification just as they did with the enforcers to try and fix the problem. As the base template, they would make them less prone to famine more capable of dealing with the local environment and subservient dealing with all 3 of the issues, they were facing at the end of the Empire. This is even further backed up by the fact that the hivers were nowhere on the continent prior to the end of the second Empire. This is very well documented in several dialogue options as well. As well as the way the skeletons react to them in the deadlands. Lastly, to answer the skin spider portion of it. I don't think that hibers evolved from skin spiders. Or skins spiders evolved from hibers. I think that the hivers were the perfected version and the skins spiders were the genetic failures that came about when creating the hivers in the first place. I think that they are genetically related from the same experimentation process. But the hivers were successful. The skin spiders were not. I personally don't think they're native because I don't think they would have waited until the end of the second Empire to just suddenly show up. I just don't think it makes any sense. And while I understand why people think that way II just don't think that it lines up with the fact that every race on kenshi is man-made. The Shek were man-made. The skeletons were man-made. The humans are man made. And then you have the hivers that are not? That does make sense. Thematically It doesn't make sense.
- The parasite thing is just the most common and widely accepted fan theory about why the fog men are the way they are. The truth is, as we have no idea what caused them to become the dead hive. But I used my current theory and understanding based on everything that i've explained in the video on the hivers as well as this comment to create a possible alternative that's all.
Hope that clears things up. But ultimately it's a big game of theories and maybe you're right and I'm wrong. Or maybe both of us are wrong. That's kind of the fun 😁
@@HeroInHisHead
2 - this does not line up with what we see in game, i don't see how catch could have been a "prosperous" market town 900 years ago if the empire was "basically already dead" 1000 years ago, AFAIK catch had no support network like the northern cities did (which branched off to become the UC), i considered that it could have been part of deadcat but deadcat was a holy nation region before the cannibal outbreak (which was probably before 900 years ago but i haven't studied kenshi lore in a very long time). it could be possible that the holy nation had a very lenient view on second empire exiles, as we know almost for sure that the holy nation was alot more relaxed even 100 years ago, it's just not possible that catch could have been a prosperous town when it's only neighbors are cannibals and people actively at war with them.
i understand that it was a slow process, what i meant was that the holy nation if they were at war with cities even leaving the second empire (i did not consider that they might not have been until now) would take advantage of catch's weakness and either burn it to the ground or capture it.
i'm very split on catch falling into the river, there aren't any places that it could have been (that i can see in the modern terrain) except for the library town, which is already occupied and too small and isolated for a proper trading town, and also the buildings there are ruined while the ones in the river are not (WHAT THE HELL KENSHI ARCHEOLOGY!??!?!), i don't know what that could signify.
3 - the point is that if hiver huts could fossilize in an environment like that we would be able to see the extent of the southern hive in the past, but we can't. i don't know if this would ever be implemented, though, i hate having to discard evidence (or lack thereof) based on gameplay mechanics and insufficient development times.
4 - misunderstanding then, and i don't understand the second part of this paragraph, i don't know how this is relevant and i do not subscribe to that train of logic (if i understand what it is, i probably don't)
5 - misunderstanding, then, if kenshi lore was more of a focus in the community (might have changed, i haven't been in the kenshi community for a long time because it's a generally awful place to be) you probably would've put a disclaimer for seething autists like me
6 - i have no comment on the first ~2/3rds of this paragraph, but theres alot to unpack in the last third. first of all i never called them native, i called them gene-modified humans, difference is i think they originated as a method of chaos unto the humans by the skeletons in the early chaos age. also, what's the issue with hivers being natives if fishmen are natives? if you think fishmen can be natives and it isn't too thematically inappropriate to discard that theory alltogether, why don't you extend this to the hivers?
oh and about the deadlands thing, how do we know that the hivers weren't dormant in a similar way the fishmen were? perhaps they were driven into hiding by the old empire invading their lands before skeletons started being manufactuerd on kenshi, only recently having resurfaced (maybe even on this continent), maybe the hivers evolved to such an extent that the skeletons don't recognize them, or the hives they did know were so radically different that they could not tell that they were part of the same group, there are many possible explanations as to why the skeletons would not recognize the hivers if they were natives.
sidenote: when i said the boat thing i forgot about skeletons and the hundreds of boats littering the southeast, MB on that one, but i'm writing this sleep deprived and with dissasociative amnesia so it's to be expected, if i condradict myself on anything i have said here take the awake me's answer for my actual thoughts on the matter
i think i missed something but i'm too tired for that rn, i'm glad that there is atleast ONE other person who cares about this stuff as much as i do (i discovered your channel through the steam page for the update)