Thank you for this! Im a Pentacostal evangelical believer from Finland and have never been in any contact with mormons or LDS church. However, I love the same Jesus as you and once had a strong spiritual experience that led me to this research path where Im now listening to guys like Wayne. The Lord told me one day as I was reading the book of Ezekiel this: "The vision of Ezekiel is about the USA". I heard it clear as day. I didnt undertand what it meant and kept praying about it and then the Spirit told me to get a copy of the book of Mormon and read it. I hope this encourages Wayne and others that you're on the right path and that the Lord can speak to a foreigner like me about the same thing you're saying. The house of Israel that Ezekiel prophesied to was truly in the USA!!! Blessings!
What a great presentation! It adds a whole new insight on the historical panarama of the Book of Mormon. Having grown up around Canton, Ohio and having seen some of these mounds - even in the woods - leads to a new appreciation of the whole area.
Thank for this information. I had no idea as well. I love learning things of history. I was sent like this when. I was younger. My father always told me. Once you start learning history, your hooked. Man was he telling the truth. I can't get enough. @@Borkybaby
Like so many others I’m sure, I’m deeply saddened by how there is a large faction in the church who totally ignore and even discredit the idea, (I would use the word truth here, but that would automatically brand me as a wacko or heretic, etc), that the Book of Mormon setting is the heartland of the United States of America…and east to the upper Great Lakes region. For the life of me I can’t understand why Deseret Book would refuse to sell materials connected with this study. Some day I might eventually understand why, but not now. Is there that much hatred lurking in the church? I wonder, do they who decide these policies think Hartman Rector is a nut case? You could say, “follow the money” …..I truly hope this isn’t the case. Do the ‘experts’ just not want to eat crow? I’ve concluded that the Second Coming will solve this dilemma….or D&C 112:25
Even church leaders are not immune to temptation. In this case, they lean more on their traditions than on facts. I can feel their necks getting stiff.
My own gravel driveway has been covered in leaves, pine needles, dust from fields, and rain. Weeds take hold, capturing more debris. I experimented with this for a year. If i hadn't cleaned it up with in five years, it would have been covered over with vegetation. Civilizations fall into ruin the same way.
It’s amazing how quickly the earth covers cities. The hills in Central America are actually ruins and you would never know it. Buildings are covered with trees which have grown up through buildings in all the ruins. It’s a bit different here in America but I think our ruins look more like the Middle East than anything I’ve seen in Central America. Those ruins look like ancient Asian architecture.
A Cherokee tribe had a village named Tennessee. That’s where the state’s name came from. that was early enough in Nephite history that they may have still used Egyptian and Hebrew names for places.
Just wondering when lds church will throw a bone to our hearlanders. Give them a check, say “hey for a year, let’s invest and go ahead and dig, let’s see what we find” worse comes to worse… we uncover history of our ancient native Americans here. Which finding more of their artifacts is great for those people everybody wins. Let all the information be presented, allows us to pray and be taught the truth. Love ya Wayne!! Can’t wait to see ya at the conference 😊
Several years ago I read a book about the history of the Nephites and Lamanites being in the same area just south of the Great Lakes. The book was written by a woman named Phyllis Olive (Olive Phyllis). I can’t remember the name of the book. Have you ever heard of it? When I first learned of your work I thought maybe she was involved with you in your work. However, she has never been mentioned. Are you familiar with her name and book?
Purple dyes may be part of the valuable things they were missing. That comes from some ocean snail that is extremely valuable because the dye is more set when exposed to sun rather than being bleached. Also Solomons temple had the entire complex. The place of the high priest spoken of in Mosiah seems to be in accord with the chamber of hewn stone at solomons temple.
You missed out on a great conference with Rod Meldrum … it would be nice if you and porter were there … too much time to go to both .. sorry we missed you
I don’t blame the Utes for not wanting to share artifacts. They’ve been burned so many times. The government would either say the artifacts belong to the State or discount them as Spanish in origin or fake altogether.
Love Hearing Wayne May and others that say what I always thought it was from the start in Church. I don't know what conflicts are,Joseph Smith and first Apostles said things in letters and talks about places,items. I love truth and prayers Only way to learn about things ❤ 4:18
So my father tried to purchase tickets to the event at maple mountain in June and when he tried to pay he got a weird error after he entered in his credit card info. I had sent the link for the website from an email I had received. My dad is getting emails from Wayne but I’m skeptical if it’s really Wayne may or if it’s a scammer pretending to be him. Is there a way to reach Wayne to make sure it’s actually him? Does he have a contact email somewhere?
Becky, please contact me through the Scripture Notes contact page. Someone has been trying to reach you to help with this but is having issues posting here.
A couple of young MoMo missionaries come by my place almost every friday for chat. Because i'm a socially adjusted & welcoming person i take the time in my life to listen and ask questions. I realize how many people simply slam their door shut or won't even answer the door with people soliciting religion. I am interested in world history & archeology, especially in the western hemisphere, so i ask the missionaries about their own views on early old world occupation of the Americas.They talk about wars between the lamanites, nephites but nothing about the indigenous people other than being apostates or savages, unless converted, Being young men under 20 i asked them why they were considered as "elders" in their church at such a young age, obviously with so little knowledge about their own history much less the long history of actual world around them. In more current history i asked them what they thought about Trump, they replied he's a good business man, Then i asked what they thought about Mitt Romney suggesting to President Biden to Pardon Trump from his 94 felonies, when not long ago before all Trumps legal problems Romney was one of the only republicans to vote for impeaching then President Trump. so there you have it elders that know little or nothing about their own history or the older cultures they co exist with today. Being Native American i understand why the people do not want to share with the fair and delightsome white people. they are not to be trusted.
Being an elder is both a calling and an office in the priesthood. It does not mean the same thing as a tribal elder who is full of wisdom and experience. That said, young men and women who serve missions in faith and obedience to their calling, carry a special spirit with them to assist in their labors and to help those with open hearts and minds to feel the truth of the message that God once again spoke to man and restored his gospel with priesthood authority to the earth.
What does "Tennessee" mean? The name "Tennessee" evolved from Creek and Cherokee words (many state names originate from Native American languages). All State Name Origins Exact details for the origin of "Tennessee" have been lost over time, but Spanish explorer Captain Juan Pardo was the first to record the name in 1567; at some point he and his soldiers encountered a Native American village called "Tanasqui" in Cherokee country. Historical accounts (maps, documents, letters) refer to "the land of the Tannassy" with many spellings, such as: Tennassee, Tunasse, Tanase, Tunesee, Tonice, Tinnace, Tanasee, Tannassie, Tannessee, Tannasie, Tenessee, Tenesay, Tenasi, Tansai, Tunissee, Tanase, Tanasqui Tenesee, Tanisee, Tanei, Tunese, Tinassee Tunnissee, Tennisee, Tennesy, Tennecy, Tunassee, Tanasee. The first known historical record using the modern spelling of "Tennessee" is an official correspondence from the Governor of South Carolina in the 1750's. Tennessee became the 16th state on June 1, 1796.
Bro. Norton, I'm thinking xou may be the grandson of the Patriarch who gave my husband and I our patriarchal blessings! We were converts and two of his earlier members. He was a great man. I had a very testimony building experience with my blessing. So neat to see his name! There probably aren't a lot of people with the first name of Oak. Loved the podcast. I've been a heartlander for many years. I really want to get to Ohio and see the mounds!! D.Gated
I don't know why this is so difficult. The Lamanites lived South of the Nephite line most of the time. The Lamanites had access to the Aztecs, but the Nephites didn't -- except for a few times when the borders were opened. We don't have a record of the Lamanites. The Book of Mormon is about the Nephites written FOR the Lamanites, not about. Maybe reading the BoM with intent and not just reading titillating commentary is the difference.
Does your research approach begin with the idea that the BOM is historically correct, therefore things you find prove it, or do you do archaeology for the sake of archaeology and let the findings reveal themselves, whether they resemble BOM geography, culture, language, DNA (for people) or not?
Wayne has done both. I have seen him use the work of other archaeologists that have no intention of religion and have come up with the exact timeline and artifacts that align with the Book of Mormon. He is also used that information to dig further and make connections.
Yes, Wayne does. I am LDS and have visited Independence Missouri to support my RLDS-Restorationist friends who have held conferences with their Heartland Group. In fact they are having a conference this coming November. I just asked my friend, who is organizing that conference to comment here about that.
The Independence, MO “The Land of Promise Heartland” group will be having a conference on Friday November 1 & Saturday November 2, 2024. There will be more information coming about our conference towards the end of the summer. We’ve got so far Wayne May, Michael Stahlman, and Phill Wright as presenters but more to come.
President [Charles A.] Callis make this statement: that after the Book of Mormon came forth the Prophet Joseph was terribly worried about what the world would say, and he said, ‘O Lord, what will the world say?’ And the answer came back, ‘Fear not, I will cause the earth to testify of the truth of these things,’ and from that day until now, and only the Lord knows what is yet ahead, external evidences have been brought forth of the divinity of that book.”3 Callister, Tad R.. A Case for the Book of Mormon (p. 46). Deseret Book. Kindle Edition.
Go to www.ldsarchaeology.com/ and in the top banner area either wait for the view to change to the 2nd panel and you'll see a donate button, or look for the 2 tiny white dots in the bottom area of the image and click the 2nd one and you'll see it.
At 1:08 in this YT video, Oak incorrectly states that the Ancient American magazine has been published for 16 years. Actually, it's over 30 years. Also, Wayne mistakenly said that Zelph's bones were found on the banks of the Mississippi. No, that us where Joseph wrote the June 4, 1834, letter to Emma about "wandering over the plains of the Nephites, recounting occasionally the history of the Book of Mormon, roving over the mounds of that once beloved people of the Lord, picking up their skulls and their bones, as a proof of its divine authenticity." Sadly, this letter was cited 3 times in Saints Vol 1, but this powerful testimony of the Book of Mormon was censored. The Zelph mound was located on the west bank of the Illinois River.
I think you might find this interesting. I assume the waters of Ripliancum are east of Cumorah and is a separate and larger body of water from the four cardinal seas. Basically the waters of Ripliancum is the Atlantic Ocean, and I agree the Great Lakes are the cardinal seas. This is my reasoning: My assumptions are based off of Joseph Smith identifying the Hill Cumorah as the Hill Cumorah and Lake Ontario as Sea East. On that foundation, if the people spreading throughout the land "from sea south to sea north, from the sea west to the sea east" (Helaman 3:8) is referring specifically to the area of the land Desolation, then the lower peninsula of Michigan would be Desolation surrounded by four cardinal seas and fits with Lake Ontario as Sea East. The land of Moron where the King of the Jaredites dwelt was near Desolation. That would place the land of Moron to the east or south side of the lower peninsula of Michigan in my opinion. South lead into the land southward, and for a long time in Jaredite history was blocked by poisonous serpents. Therefore, Moron would be to the east of the land Desolation. Lower Canada between Lake Huron and Lake Ontario was sparcely populated by the Adena (Jaredites) or Hopewell (Nephites), so I wouldn't place it there either. However, if you look at the old Indian trails in Michigan, the location of Detroit is the focal point of where they meet, indicating a place of great importance to power and/or trade. The Great Mound that was once in the area is an indication of a lot of conflict there as well. Therefore, Detroit is my choice for the location for the capital city of the Jaredites. In Ether 9:3, Omer is warned by God to depart out of the land. Omer couldn't have fled south because the way was still blocked by the poisonous serpents that weren't destroyed to open the way south until generations later in Ether 10:19. Therefore, I believe he would have fled eastward from Moron away from highly populated areas to avoid witnesses to his travels. From the Detroit area he could have traveled about 120 miles before reaching the hilly region between Lake Huron, Lake Ontario, and the Niagara Escarpment where the hill Shim could have been located. Then eastward from there to where the Nephites were destroyed. Omar settled in Ablom eastward from Cumorah by the seashore. They don't yet identify the waters of Ripliancum, so I would assume Ablom probably borders somewhere on Lake Ontario. That also establishes settlements that the final armies can sweep before them in the final conflict in that direction. The valley of Corihor and the valley of Shurr (Ether 14:28) I believe would be northeast from Cumorah, possibly in the State of Maine, because when they flee from the area of those valleys is when they finally name the waters of Ripliancum (Ether 15:7-8). After having reached the shores of Ripliancum is when they turn south and end up back at Cumorah and Ogath would be near Cumorah (Ether 15:10-11). Assuming the Atlantic Ocean was the waters of Ripliancum, the armies could have traveled south along the seashore until they reached the State of Massachusetts, at which point there is an old Indian trail they could have followed to get through the mountainous area and back to the Hill Cumorah. That's why I believe the waters of Ripliancum are east from Cumorah and a body of water seperate from the four cardinal seas.
If they do get to test the Zelph bones for DNA, I hope they test both the Y-chromosome haplogroup and the mitochondrial haplogroup. Both would be very fascinating to know.
Misunderstanding here of sorts?? Lehi arrives on coast of Florida, some time later he leaves the older brothers for a new place, he has to travel north of north west out of Florida. He settles (my call) in what would become east Tennessee my choice for Land of Nephi. They will reside there for about 400 years when the Lord tells Mosiah , He will guide him to Zarahemla at present day Iowa.
Holy cow. Censorship from Deseret book? Sounds personal. How can you read the BOOK OF Mormon and not know it took place in the United States? Do some people it doesn’t really matter where the book of armor took place, but in my head geography is everything. I’m a land surveyor by trade. I am not doubting at all that Jesus Christ visited the people of Central and South America and I would almost bet my bottom dollar they also have record somewhere. But there is no way you can read the book of Mormon and say it is anywhere in the heartland.
th-cam.com/video/FJExWZW9avE/w-d-xo.html Interesting that they used five nails to nail Christ to his cross. Two in each hand/wrist and one thru his feet.
What about all of the mesoamerican accounts of worshipping “the great white god”, whenever explorers like Cortez, Pizzaro, captain John Cook, etc. first landed on mesoamerican shores? Those players were certainly not in the heartland. Just saying.
The Book of Mormon knowledge would have been taken to Central America after Christ visited the Nephites at the Bountiful Temple, He went all over the Western Hemisphere
There’s no question that Jaredites and Lamanites made their way to mesoamerica and that there was interactions between people of S America, Meso and N America. The cultures and myths would have been shared. The question is where did the events of the BOM occur.
There is no continuity in the stratigraphy of America. Look at the stratigraphy of the Koster Site and Joffre Lanning Coe's excavations of the Carolina Piedmont. There is a catastrophe that ended Clovis.
Where are the artifacts? You should be able to relate the ancient civilization to the artifacts with DNA. Why doesn't the church fund you if your work is valid.
Artifacts don't contain DNA. However, the Hopewell civilization has a DNA connection to Israelite lineage. The Hopewell also lived in the Northeast Americas from around 550 BC to 400 AD according to archeologists which is the time frame of the Nephite civilization.
The Book of Mormon is constantly being validated. There is a lot of physical evidence to support it, yet that's not the treasure. The treasure is inside the book. If you haven't read it, don't condemn it.
I buy enough stuff from Deseret to pay the CEO’s salary. Perhaps I should threaten to boycott until they start putting the Heartland stuff back on the shelf. More seriously, I don’t see why they would discontinue your material. Any historian would start there given that Palmyra is the only place that can be positively identified. Ergo the Heartland or upstate New York theories have at least as much credibility as Central America. Since the Church has no official stance, all possibilities should be available through Deseret. This is a simple matter of fairness.
Nephites landed in Chili and the Jaredites in eastern U.S. Mulekites somewhere in Mexico. It's interesting that the Jaredites took off with eight barges and the Mayan records and writings tell of the seven little boats. one apparently didn't make it.
Wayne May, a member of the Mormon church, who does not have any kind of degree in the field of Archeology. His books on Archeology is certainly not recognized in the academic world, only "Mormons" blindly follow and quote him as reference. Being a member of the Mormon church puts in a position to be influenced and mulipuated by the Mormon church.
Thank you Albert for saving us from ourselves. Yes we are all stupider and more gullible than you. You keep putting your faith and trust in the Smithsonian Etc. This is corroborating evidence. The Book of Mormon itself can not be rationally explained away. Are you the guy who can look at a flower and not see evidence of God? Happy contrarianism.
We are focusing on Scriptures, history and archaeology that is Book of Mormon oriented. Firm Foundation is a melting pot of numerous comings and goings in the Salt Lake Valley, not focused enough on BoM in our opinion
@@waynemay3404 Hello Wayne. This has nothing to do with this upload but I'd like to share with you what I bumped into regarding what a curelom and cumom is. Cureloms and cumoms were more than likely crossbred beasts of burden such as mules(Jack and Hinny). If so, I believe the two words used in the BoM stem from the Adamic language that could have still lingered in the Jaredite language. Since Ancient times, Elephants and Mules have been known to be superior beasts of burden above the donkey and the horse. "and there were elephants and cureloms and cumoms; all of which were useful unto man, and more especially the elephants and cureloms and cumoms" "Mules were known in Egypt since before 3000 BC and for some 600 years - between 2100 BC and 1500 BC - - the Pharaohs sent expeditions into the Sinai to mine turquoise. The miners marked their route with carvings on rocks showing boats and mules (not camels!). Mules were, at that time, the preferred pack animal. Also in ancient Egypt, while the Pharaohs were carried about in fancy litters by servants, the common people often had the use of mule drawn carts. An Egyptian monument from Thebes depicts mules yoked to a chariot. Mule remains are frequent in the archaeological record, suggesting that mules had become a "mainstream" animal early on, used primarily for pulling wagons or transporting burden. To the north in Asia Minor, the Hittites were the most powerful of the early horse-people - - but they ... considered the mule to be at least three times more valuable in price than even a good chariot horse ." For a short 10 min. read... Google History of the mule by DAVE BABB. :>)
I believe this is the same man who has publicly stated that he believes the so called Kinderhook Plates were authentic. This alone invalidates any other ideas he has. When it’s time for us to know the locations and disposition of the Book of Mormon, it will come from authorized sources, not a pseudo explorer. Save your money.
I Would love to hear the WHY of your statement. To be a contrarian and to expect such a level of perfectionism is so easy. Are you a Monday morning quarterback also? with no skin in the game? You will notice that Wayne May ends all his presentations with the statement. I REPORT YOU DECIDE Give him the same respect even if you are a smarty pants. Charity never faileth brother
Thank you for this! Im a Pentacostal evangelical believer from Finland and have never been in any contact with mormons or LDS church. However, I love the same Jesus as you and once had a strong spiritual experience that led me to this research path where Im now listening to guys like Wayne. The Lord told me one day as I was reading the book of Ezekiel this: "The vision of Ezekiel is about the USA". I heard it clear as day. I didnt undertand what it meant and kept praying about it and then the Spirit told me to get a copy of the book of Mormon and read it. I hope this encourages Wayne and others that you're on the right path and that the Lord can speak to a foreigner like me about the same thing you're saying. The house of Israel that Ezekiel prophesied to was truly in the USA!!! Blessings!
You are truly amazing. God has blessed and led you in your journey. God bless.
Very cool. Thanks for sharing that!
Great interview, Oak. Wayne's a walking encyclopedia. Also, love seeing all the "stuff" in Wayne's room, looks like Indy Jones' stash😂
My first thoughts exactly. Lol.
The stark difference between the two are great,😂😂😂
What a great presentation! It adds a whole new insight on the historical panarama of the Book of Mormon. Having grown up around Canton, Ohio and having seen some of these mounds - even in the woods - leads to a new appreciation of the whole area.
Good stuff. As for Zarahemla being under 30 feet of sand/ dirt, the New Madrid quake in 1811 alone created lakes and sank towns.
Yup. Was thinking the same thing. Surprising how many Americans don’t know about that event. Even ancient Israel now, is super buried as well.
Thank for this information. I had no idea as well. I love learning things of history. I was sent like this when. I was younger. My father always told me. Once you start learning history, your hooked. Man was he telling the truth. I can't get enough. @@Borkybaby
It also caused a 3 days of darkness scenario!!!
Like so many others I’m sure, I’m deeply saddened by how there is a large faction in the church who totally ignore and even discredit the idea, (I would use the word truth here, but that would automatically brand me as a wacko or heretic, etc), that the Book of Mormon setting is the heartland of the United States of America…and east to the upper Great Lakes region.
For the life of me I can’t understand why Deseret Book would refuse to sell materials connected with this study. Some day I might eventually understand why, but not now. Is there that much hatred lurking in the church? I wonder, do they who decide these policies think Hartman Rector is a nut case?
You could say, “follow the money” …..I truly hope this isn’t the case. Do the ‘experts’ just not want to eat crow?
I’ve concluded that the Second Coming will solve this dilemma….or D&C 112:25
Even church leaders are not immune to temptation. In this case, they lean more on their traditions than on facts. I can feel their necks getting stiff.
Your bashing church leaders?
My own gravel driveway has been covered in leaves, pine needles, dust from fields, and rain. Weeds take hold, capturing more debris. I experimented with this for a year. If i hadn't cleaned it up with in five years, it would have been covered over with vegetation. Civilizations fall into ruin the same way.
It’s amazing how quickly the earth covers cities. The hills in Central America are actually ruins and you would never know it. Buildings are covered with trees which have grown up through buildings in all the ruins. It’s a bit different here in America but I think our ruins look more like the Middle East than anything I’ve seen in Central America. Those ruins look like ancient Asian architecture.
A Cherokee tribe had a village named Tennessee. That’s where the state’s name came from. that was early enough in Nephite history that they may have still used Egyptian and Hebrew names for places.
Just wondering when lds church will throw a bone to our hearlanders. Give them a check, say “hey for a year, let’s invest and go ahead and dig, let’s see what we find” worse comes to worse… we uncover history of our ancient native Americans here. Which finding more of their artifacts is great for those people everybody wins. Let all the information be presented, allows us to pray and be taught the truth. Love ya Wayne!! Can’t wait to see ya at the conference 😊
I wonder if it would be good if the church were involved. At least at this time.
Love me some W.May! Great interview
I had no idea your wife helped you publish your magazines. How fun your get to work together! :)
You have to listen to The Ancient Tradition podcast!!! It will answer your question about the tree of life stone.
Several years ago I read a book about the history of the Nephites and Lamanites being in the same area just south of the Great Lakes. The book was written by a woman named Phyllis Olive (Olive Phyllis). I can’t remember the name of the book. Have you ever heard of it? When I first learned of your work I thought maybe she was involved with you in your work. However, she has never been mentioned. Are you familiar with her name and book?
Phyllis Olive has a different geography model, 1 of over 250 models. She believes it happened only in the state of New York--a very limited model.
Wow! Loved the interview with Wayne May!! I will attend the Land of Promise conference in June next month, I'm looking forward to it.
Purple dyes may be part of the valuable things they were missing. That comes from some ocean snail that is extremely valuable because the dye is more set when exposed to sun rather than being bleached. Also Solomons temple had the entire complex. The place of the high priest spoken of in Mosiah seems to be in accord with the chamber of hewn stone at solomons temple.
You missed out on a great conference with Rod Meldrum … it would be nice if you and porter were there … too much time to go to both .. sorry we missed you
I don’t blame the Utes for not wanting to share artifacts. They’ve been burned so many times. The government would either say the artifacts belong to the State or discount them as Spanish in origin or fake altogether.
Love Hearing Wayne May and others that say what I always thought it was from the start in Church.
I don't know what conflicts are,Joseph Smith and first Apostles said things in letters and talks about places,items.
I love truth and prayers
Only way to learn about things
❤ 4:18
So my father tried to purchase tickets to the event at maple mountain in June and when he tried to pay he got a weird error after he entered in his credit card info. I had sent the link for the website from an email I had received. My dad is getting emails from Wayne but I’m skeptical if it’s really Wayne may or if it’s a scammer pretending to be him. Is there a way to reach Wayne to make sure it’s actually him? Does he have a contact email somewhere?
Becky, please contact me through the Scripture Notes contact page. Someone has been trying to reach you to help with this but is having issues posting here.
A couple of young MoMo missionaries come by my place almost every friday for chat. Because i'm a socially adjusted & welcoming person i take the time in my life to listen and ask questions. I realize how many people simply slam their door shut or won't even answer the door with people soliciting religion. I am interested in world history & archeology, especially in the western hemisphere, so i ask the missionaries about their own views on early old world occupation of the Americas.They talk about wars between the lamanites, nephites but nothing about the indigenous people other than being apostates or savages, unless converted, Being young men under 20 i asked them why they were considered as "elders" in their church at such a young age, obviously with so little knowledge about their own history much less the long history of actual world around them. In more current history i asked them what they thought about Trump, they replied he's a good business man, Then i asked what they thought about Mitt Romney suggesting to President Biden to Pardon Trump from his 94 felonies, when not long ago before all Trumps legal problems Romney was one of the only republicans to vote for impeaching then President Trump. so there you have it elders that know little or nothing about their own history or the older cultures they co exist with today. Being Native American i understand why the people do not want to share with the fair and delightsome white people. they are not to be trusted.
Being an elder is both a calling and an office in the priesthood. It does not mean the same thing as a tribal elder who is full of wisdom and experience. That said, young men and women who serve missions in faith and obedience to their calling, carry a special spirit with them to assist in their labors and to help those with open hearts and minds to feel the truth of the message that God once again spoke to man and restored his gospel with priesthood authority to the earth.
What does "Tennessee" mean?
The name "Tennessee" evolved from Creek and Cherokee words (many state names originate from Native American languages). All State Name Origins
Exact details for the origin of "Tennessee" have been lost over time, but Spanish explorer Captain Juan Pardo was the first to record the name in 1567; at some point he and his soldiers encountered a Native American village called "Tanasqui" in Cherokee country.
Historical accounts (maps, documents, letters) refer to "the land of the Tannassy" with many spellings, such as: Tennassee, Tunasse, Tanase, Tunesee, Tonice, Tinnace, Tanasee, Tannassie, Tannessee, Tannasie, Tenessee, Tenesay, Tenasi, Tansai, Tunissee, Tanase, Tanasqui Tenesee, Tanisee, Tanei, Tunese, Tinassee Tunnissee, Tennisee, Tennesy, Tennecy, Tunassee, Tanasee.
The first known historical record using the modern spelling of "Tennessee" is an official correspondence from the Governor of South Carolina in the 1750's. Tennessee became the 16th state on June 1, 1796.
Wayne is a hero!
Bro. Norton, I'm thinking xou may be the grandson of the Patriarch who gave my husband and I our patriarchal blessings! We were converts and two of his earlier members. He was a great man. I had a very testimony building experience with my blessing. So neat to see his name! There probably aren't a lot of people with the first name of Oak. Loved the podcast. I've been a heartlander for many years. I really want to get to Ohio and see the mounds!!
D.Gated
I'm actually his son. :) So glad you got to have your blessing through him.
So glad you guys cracked the code, I have Muskogee Creek in me so now I know I'm a blossoming rose!
I don't know why this is so difficult. The Lamanites lived South of the Nephite line most of the time. The Lamanites had access to the Aztecs, but the Nephites didn't -- except for a few times when the borders were opened. We don't have a record of the Lamanites. The Book of Mormon is about the Nephites written FOR the Lamanites, not about.
Maybe reading the BoM with intent and not just reading titillating commentary is the difference.
ive looked at the mag for years. one of my favorite.
Thanks fellas! The Holly Ghost approves of this message! 😇
Gotta love Wayne May!
Didn’t know Deseret Books was squashing this work. We should speak out against that.
Does your research approach begin with the idea that the BOM is historically correct, therefore things you find prove it, or do you do archaeology for the sake of archaeology and let the findings reveal themselves, whether they resemble BOM geography, culture, language, DNA (for people) or not?
Wayne has done both. I have seen him use the work of other archaeologists that have no intention of religion and have come up with the exact timeline and artifacts that align with the Book of Mormon. He is also used that information to dig further and make connections.
Also, does brother Wayne May ever come to Missouri for lectures?
Yes, he's been here a few times meeting mostly at RLDS buildings with other believers. I've attended one and it was packed.
Yes, Wayne does.
I am LDS and have visited Independence Missouri to support my RLDS-Restorationist friends who have held conferences with their Heartland Group. In fact they are having a conference this coming November. I just asked my friend, who is organizing that conference to comment here about that.
The Independence, MO “The Land of Promise Heartland” group will be having a conference on Friday November 1 & Saturday November 2, 2024. There will be more information coming about our conference towards the end of the summer. We’ve got so far Wayne May, Michael Stahlman, and Phill Wright as presenters but more to come.
Can you post links to Wayne May in the description box for the viewers please?
Yes
President [Charles A.] Callis make this statement: that after the Book of Mormon came forth the Prophet Joseph was terribly worried about what the world would say, and he said, ‘O Lord, what will the world say?’ And the answer came back, ‘Fear not, I will cause the earth to testify of the truth of these things,’ and from that day until now, and only the Lord knows what is yet ahead, external evidences have been brought forth of the divinity of that book.”3
Callister, Tad R.. A Case for the Book of Mormon (p. 46). Deseret Book. Kindle Edition.
Who was it that caused Deseret Book to remove Wayne's and other's material?
Don't know a name.
How do I donate?
Go to www.ldsarchaeology.com/ and in the top banner area either wait for the view to change to the 2nd panel and you'll see a donate button, or look for the 2 tiny white dots in the bottom area of the image and click the 2nd one and you'll see it.
At 1:08 in this YT video, Oak incorrectly states that the Ancient American magazine has been published for 16 years. Actually, it's over 30 years.
Also, Wayne mistakenly said that Zelph's bones were found on the banks of the Mississippi. No, that us where Joseph wrote the June 4, 1834, letter to Emma about "wandering over the plains of the Nephites, recounting occasionally the history of the Book of Mormon, roving over the mounds of that once beloved people of the Lord, picking up their skulls and their bones, as a proof of its divine authenticity." Sadly, this letter was cited 3 times in Saints Vol 1, but this powerful testimony of the Book of Mormon was censored. The Zelph mound was located on the west bank of the Illinois River.
thank you Bruce for correcting the location
❤❤❤
By the looks of it. This video absolutely dwarfs your other videos. Heartland is where the B of M took place.
I think you might find this interesting. I assume the waters of Ripliancum are east of Cumorah and is a separate and larger body of water from the four cardinal seas. Basically the waters of Ripliancum is the Atlantic Ocean, and I agree the Great Lakes are the cardinal seas. This is my reasoning:
My assumptions are based off of Joseph Smith identifying the Hill Cumorah as the Hill Cumorah and Lake Ontario as Sea East. On that foundation, if the people spreading throughout the land "from sea south to sea north, from the sea west to the sea east" (Helaman 3:8) is referring specifically to the area of the land Desolation, then the lower peninsula of Michigan would be Desolation surrounded by four cardinal seas and fits with Lake Ontario as Sea East.
The land of Moron where the King of the Jaredites dwelt was near Desolation. That would place the land of Moron to the east or south side of the lower peninsula of Michigan in my opinion. South lead into the land southward, and for a long time in Jaredite history was blocked by poisonous serpents. Therefore, Moron would be to the east of the land Desolation. Lower Canada between Lake Huron and Lake Ontario was sparcely populated by the Adena (Jaredites) or Hopewell (Nephites), so I wouldn't place it there either.
However, if you look at the old Indian trails in Michigan, the location of Detroit is the focal point of where they meet, indicating a place of great importance to power and/or trade. The Great Mound that was once in the area is an indication of a lot of conflict there as well. Therefore, Detroit is my choice for the location for the capital city of the Jaredites.
In Ether 9:3, Omer is warned by God to depart out of the land. Omer couldn't have fled south because the way was still blocked by the poisonous serpents that weren't destroyed to open the way south until generations later in Ether 10:19. Therefore, I believe he would have fled eastward from Moron away from highly populated areas to avoid witnesses to his travels. From the Detroit area he could have traveled about 120 miles before reaching the hilly region between Lake Huron, Lake Ontario, and the Niagara Escarpment where the hill Shim could have been located. Then eastward from there to where the Nephites were destroyed. Omar settled in Ablom eastward from Cumorah by the seashore. They don't yet identify the waters of Ripliancum, so I would assume Ablom probably borders somewhere on Lake Ontario. That also establishes settlements that the final armies can sweep before them in the final conflict in that direction.
The valley of Corihor and the valley of Shurr (Ether 14:28) I believe would be northeast from Cumorah, possibly in the State of Maine, because when they flee from the area of those valleys is when they finally name the waters of Ripliancum (Ether 15:7-8). After having reached the shores of Ripliancum is when they turn south and end up back at Cumorah and Ogath would be near Cumorah (Ether 15:10-11). Assuming the Atlantic Ocean was the waters of Ripliancum, the armies could have traveled south along the seashore until they reached the State of Massachusetts, at which point there is an old Indian trail they could have followed to get through the mountainous area and back to the Hill Cumorah.
That's why I believe the waters of Ripliancum are east from Cumorah and a body of water seperate from the four cardinal seas.
I have a question about Hagoths groups?
Really impressive
seems like most ancient sites are on a promintory out into the river or lake. too bad you can not go to the east of the site/south of navoo.
If they do get to test the Zelph bones for DNA, I hope they test both the Y-chromosome haplogroup and the mitochondrial haplogroup. Both would be very fascinating to know.
The archaeology speaks
But only the LDS hear it
Hello Wayne, I would love to know why in the Book of Mormon the land of Nephi is north but Tennessee is south, so I really want to know!! 😊
Misunderstanding here of sorts?? Lehi arrives on coast of Florida, some time later he leaves the older brothers for a new place, he has to travel north of north west out of Florida. He settles (my call) in what would become east Tennessee my choice for Land of Nephi. They will reside there for about 400 years when the Lord tells Mosiah , He will guide him to Zarahemla at present day Iowa.
Tennessee is believed to come from the ancient village/city named Tanasi.
Holy cow. Censorship from Deseret book?
Sounds personal. How can you read the BOOK OF Mormon and not know it took place in the United States?
Do some people it doesn’t really matter where the book of armor took place, but in my head geography is everything. I’m a land surveyor by trade. I am not doubting at all that Jesus Christ visited the people of Central and South America and I would almost bet my bottom dollar they also have record somewhere. But there is no way you can read the book of Mormon and say it is anywhere in the heartland.
Hugh Nibley stated once that there was nothing of historical significance to the Book of Mormon in South America.
He scoffed at the idea
It's funny that the Church Bookstores won't carry his books.
th-cam.com/video/FJExWZW9avE/w-d-xo.html Interesting that they used five nails to nail Christ to his cross. Two in each hand/wrist and one thru his feet.
Ohio means beautiful or does it also mean bountiful.
What about all of the mesoamerican accounts of worshipping “the great white god”, whenever explorers like Cortez, Pizzaro, captain John Cook, etc. first landed on mesoamerican shores? Those players were certainly not in the heartland. Just saying.
The Book of Mormon knowledge would have been taken to Central America after Christ visited the Nephites at the Bountiful Temple, He went all over the Western Hemisphere
Jesus also told the Nephites that he had more people to see.
There’s no question that Jaredites and Lamanites made their way to mesoamerica and that there was interactions between people of S America, Meso and N America. The cultures and myths would have been shared. The question is where did the events of the BOM occur.
There is no continuity in the stratigraphy of America. Look at the stratigraphy of the Koster Site and Joffre Lanning Coe's excavations of the Carolina Piedmont. There is a catastrophe that ended Clovis.
Where are the artifacts? You should be able to relate the ancient civilization to the artifacts with DNA. Why doesn't the church fund you if your work is valid.
Exactly. If the church thought there was a way to validate the Book of Mormon, they would throw billions of dollars at it.
Artifacts don't contain DNA. However, the Hopewell civilization has a DNA connection to Israelite lineage. The Hopewell also lived in the Northeast Americas from around 550 BC to 400 AD according to archeologists which is the time frame of the Nephite civilization.
The Book of Mormon is constantly being validated. There is a lot of physical evidence to support it, yet that's not the treasure. The treasure is inside the book. If you haven't read it, don't condemn it.
Yay 🤗
I buy enough stuff from Deseret to pay the CEO’s salary. Perhaps I should threaten to boycott until they start putting the Heartland stuff back on the shelf. More seriously, I don’t see why they would discontinue your material. Any historian would start there given that Palmyra is the only place that can be positively identified. Ergo the Heartland or upstate New York theories have at least as much credibility as Central America. Since the Church has no official stance, all possibilities should be available through Deseret. This is a simple matter of fairness.
Nephites landed in Chili and the Jaredites in eastern U.S. Mulekites somewhere in Mexico. It's interesting that the Jaredites took off with eight barges and the Mayan records and writings tell of the seven little boats. one apparently didn't make it.
Nothing could be further from Nephi’s description of abundance than Chile’s stark mountainous coast.
I wonder if the earthquake at Nee Madrid will expose some Nephite artifacts
Dream on 😂
That’s the same story for the Hawaiian Islands and the great white God returning….
My opinion: The Church has MAJOR issues. Does my saying that make me an apostate?
Heck no! Humans will always sin. EVEN the true priesthood holders. We are and will be in a fallen state until he comes again.
Wayne May, a member of the Mormon church, who does not have any kind of degree in the field of Archeology.
His books on Archeology is certainly not recognized in the academic world, only "Mormons" blindly follow and quote him as reference.
Being a member of the Mormon church puts in a position to be influenced and mulipuated by the Mormon church.
Thank you Albert for saving us from ourselves. Yes we are all stupider and more gullible than you.
You keep putting your faith and trust in the Smithsonian Etc. This is corroborating evidence. The Book of Mormon itself can not be rationally explained away. Are you the guy who can look at a flower and not see evidence of God? Happy contrarianism.
Why did you and PORTER .. Ditch Rod Meldrum…
We are focusing on Scriptures, history and archaeology that is Book of Mormon oriented. Firm Foundation is a melting pot of numerous comings and goings in the Salt Lake Valley, not focused enough on BoM in our opinion
@@waynemay3404 Hello Wayne. This has nothing to do with this upload but I'd like to share with you what I bumped into regarding what a curelom and cumom is. Cureloms and cumoms were more than likely crossbred beasts of burden such as mules(Jack and Hinny). If so, I believe the two words used in the BoM stem from the Adamic language that could have still lingered in the Jaredite language. Since Ancient times, Elephants and Mules have been known to be superior beasts of burden above the donkey and the horse.
"and there were elephants and cureloms and cumoms; all of which were useful unto man, and more especially the elephants and cureloms and cumoms"
"Mules were known in Egypt since before 3000 BC and for some 600 years - between 2100 BC and 1500 BC - - the Pharaohs sent expeditions into the Sinai to mine turquoise. The miners marked their route with carvings on rocks showing boats and mules (not camels!). Mules were, at that time, the preferred pack animal. Also in ancient Egypt, while the Pharaohs were carried about in fancy litters by servants, the common people often had the use of mule drawn carts. An Egyptian monument from Thebes depicts mules yoked to a chariot. Mule remains are frequent in the archaeological record, suggesting that mules had become a "mainstream" animal early on, used primarily for pulling wagons or transporting burden.
To the north in Asia Minor, the Hittites were the most powerful of the early horse-people - - but they ... considered the mule to be at least three times more valuable in price than even a good chariot horse ."
For a short 10 min. read... Google History of the mule by DAVE BABB. :>)
I believe this is the same man who has publicly stated that he believes the so called Kinderhook Plates were authentic.
This alone invalidates any other ideas he has.
When it’s time for us to know the locations and disposition of the Book of Mormon, it will come from authorized sources, not a pseudo explorer.
Save your money.
I Would love to hear the WHY of your statement. To be a contrarian and to expect such a level of perfectionism is so easy. Are you a Monday morning quarterback also? with no skin in the game? You will notice that Wayne May ends all his presentations with the statement. I REPORT YOU DECIDE Give him the same respect even if you are a smarty pants.
Charity never faileth brother
List all your reasons for Kinderhook to be fake and I will meet you on all points with list to validate the plates. So lets do it Bob?
Well Bob, list your reasons for Kinderhook as fake items and I will meet each one of your statements with reasons for authenticity. Lets do it Bob.
Gordon B Hinkley participated in the Church’s purchase of documents forged by Mark Hoffman …..maybe you question his credibility?
@@waynemay3404 This is akin to debating whether the earth is round or flat. A flat earth and those fake plates are bogus.