Why do you recommend shorter bands on the lighter shaft? The video states 65 cm and 68 cm on the 7 mm shaft and 70 cm and 72 cm on the 7.5 mm shaft. I would think the larger shaft needs more power and the thicker shaft is less prone to shaft whip. Thanks for all the testing!
Yes the Pathos 120 has about 12 cm more band stretch than the Riffe 120X and is a much smaller footprint gun. This is because it has a shorter loading pad and a reverse trigger.
would you recommend a similar setup for the same gun but 110? i'm having accuracy issues. Tried converting it to Roller with a 7mm pathos shaft but didn't resolve, from 4m it is shooting approx 15cm low and way left off target. After watching this i was thinking of switching back to open muzzle and replacing shaft to Sigal 7mm and maybe rubber too
hi. With a Bleutec Lycan 120 it comes with 7mm shaft. and 3 bands 14mm small ID. and also two 16mm . you think is okay ? or change shaft for a 7.5. and two 14.5mm small ID bands ? Please hope you answer. Thanks
Amazing test.i have a couple of questions. First to do with band behaviour at depth. I read that you talk about water infiltration as the root cause for potential miss shots. Can you explain better? Second, i would like to have your opinion on the set up of my 115 assembled carbon gun. It has a 7mm hunt shaft and 2 16mm giman bands (not sure what ID) @330. Would you recommend any different. Have you.got a FB account?
am thinking to buy pathos 120, i saw your video with thanks , i have seen your best setup to change the shaft and bands . what about the trigger is there any problem ?
hi, i have a pathos laser open pro aluminum. I want to use shaft rob allen 7.5mm x 160 with 360% stretch 14mm primeline bands. What do you think of that configuration? I could also use the 6.75mm from pathos for small fish with the same bands?. Your videos are very sweet. Thank you.
bro please I Need the best setup for C4 URUKAY for now I but 3 sigalsub extreme 14.5 Rubber band and 8mm spear master shaft with large fins . can you do one test with the urukay that you have it and let me know the recommendation about it and best setup for it
Hi . I got a Lycan carbon Bleu Tec 7.5 mm. 160 cm shaft. Band stretch since band hole to last shark fin 126 cm. I already get a Hammer Head 14.5 band. My question is what size exactly cut it ? Wishbone size ? Thanks
I just got a MVD Predator 120 size. 160 cm and 7.5 mm shaft. 130 cm band stretch. What band recommended? Size ? Large in cm. Small ID ? Thanks. Hope you answer
Hey man, you probably get this question a lot but what are your favorite rollers? Looking to get a Pathos Roller Sniper 95 for reef and smaller blue water fish, kind of a do it all gun. What are your favorites?
Awesome! I'm gonna try the 14mm bands with 7.5mm shaft set up. Any suggestions on where to get the Small ID bands and a 7.5 shaft from? Would brand matter on the shaft if I go 7.5? I want to keep it as close as possible to what you have. Proof is in the video
Lawrence yadao Yadao Best 7mm shaft on earth is the Sporasub America One shaft with welded fins. For 7.5mm I really like the Sigalsub as it has a cone. You need a cone or a recessed flopper for good shaft flight and good penetration and good accuracy. I also like to have a rest tab to allow loading of hot bands. The Riffe 7mm shaft is excellent quality, but it doesn't have a rest tab or a cone or recessed flopper and wouldn't be my first choice.
Love your videos, extremely informative! Keep them coming! As an alternative to the sporasub one 150cm 7mm shaft for the pathos 120, what other shaft would you recommend? or not recommend? Sigalsub 7mm 150cm perhaps?
@@majdq8 I have a stupid but interesting idea for your videos. try to shoot an arrow with a hunting tip from a lead gun. with a broadhead tip. compare a normal arrow for spearfishing and a broadhead arrow for land hunting with a bow. Use underwater spear but with hunting broadhead.
Hey mate, awesome videos of great help for anyone wanting to see what their gun can do. I have a C4 Graphite99 with double rubber,1x14mm and another 16mm one with a 130cm 7mm shaft. I'm making 5meter shots no prob with the 99cm gun so happy with that. Would be interesting to see what you could achieve with that gun. To my question though. Just got myself a pathos laser open 90 and would like to know lf l can apply an approx config to the one you used on the carbon one. If not, any recommendations? Thanks for the vids, please keep them coming. btw, is that pathos carbon THAT good? it seems to matche the abellan in performance and accuracy
+77gerald77 I have not tested either the C4 Graphite or the Pathos 90. I do have a C4 Urukay 120 but haven't had a chance to even get it wet As for the Pathos 90, the problem is that a 90cm gun is going to be using 120cm shaft ... that is a very short shaft with very little mass I don't think it will have good performance at anything more than 1 wrap, which is about 4 meters. I generally power my 90cm guns with a single 20mm band with a 120 or 130cm 6.5mm or 6.75mm shaft, and to be honest all the fish I hunt these days need much more power than that. I do think that 2 x 14mm small ID bands will be a good choice.
@@majdq8 I have a stupid but interesting idea for your videos. try to shoot an arrow with a hunting tip from a lead gun. with a broadhead tip. compare a normal arrow for spearfishing and a broadhead arrow for land hunting with a bow.
Thanks for all your excellent vids! Where in the States do you buy small id 14 mm Primeline rubber? I’ve recently bought 14mm 1/8” id rubber from Spearit Co in Florida and I think they do not carry 14mm 1/16” id.
Spearitco have 14mm small ID bands but they might be out of stock ... that is where I usually buy my small ID bands. You can also get them from benthicoceansports.com and spearamerica.com and redtrianglespearfishing.com ... probably several other places have them as well.
Hey Majd. Avid fan of your vids, hope you keep them coming! Need some advice on what set up to use on an old Laser Open(90cm) l want to restore for general use. Its got an old discarded Rob Allen Tuna open muzzle at the front and have just ordered the D Angelo 1 handle and trigg mech to go with it. Im thinking of going with a 7mm Sigalsub(i think, brand ink has rubbed off), with the same type fin tabs found on old Abellan Robalo's and 2x14 or 14.5 Sigalsub reactive rubber. Do you think im heading on the right direction with set up? Really like to use that 7mm shaft as its got 'sentiental' (30k amberjack) value. Appreciate any tips you could give me
A laser open 90cm with a D1 handle can be setups really nice. The Sigal 7mm shaft with 2 x 14mm small ID bands at around 360% ... and you are a happy camper. I don't think you can use the RA tuna muzzle on it. Or at least I was not able to make that work. Just use the muzzle that came with the Pathos and it should work fine.
majdq8 Thanks for the reply mate. Def go with the setup youve suggested then. Just need a cone for my old sigalsub 7mm shaft(been sharpened so many times there's barely 3cm between point and flopper). Ref the RA Tuna muzzle, it works fine on the barrel after sanding the inner section of the muzzle a bit. Love how the bands fall in line with the barrel when using the RA muzzle! Hope to get 4.5m range shots with the setup. One more question please. Does the D Angelo 1 suffer from the same issue as the two or can l use a 7.5mm shaft in the future(as long as l'm man enough to handle the recoil....🤣)? Thanks a lot again🤙✌
The Dangelo 1 has no issues with regards to the trigger and is actually a much better fitting handle. I do recommend you mod the handle if you want optimal performance. Check out my handle mod video. Cone is an excellent idea for the shaft, and 4.5m range should be a piece of cake.
I think the grip is making a difference here I can see that it slips or rotates in you hand with the recoil. it can also be that the way you jerk it slightly while squeezing the trigger. Have you tried shooting it with the left hand?
+emerald596 Yes grip fit is terrible for my hand with D'Angelo II handle. I have since customized all my grips with the D'Angelo II and now even with 130 gun and 8mm shaft, I can shoot very accurately with it. Here is a video of my test after customizing the handle th-cam.com/video/cS9_qsP8f6A/w-d-xo.html
Hello, your videos are very helpful and i am seriously starting to consider buying this gun with this exact set up. But I am not sure about the 7.5mm shaft. I can see it is accurate due to reduced shaft whip, also I can see it has good penetration due to its larger mass. My question is, in the sea will it be too slow? Because that is what I hear repeatedly from many people, and that is it is better to use a 7 or 7.2mm since in the sea it will be much faster. Please, if you do has the time it will awesome if you could share your thoughts and give me an answer. Take care.
I even use an 8mm shaft :) Don't worry 7.5mm is perfect for longer ranges. For shorter ranges 7mm is perfect say up to 5 meters from tip of shaft ... 7mm is perfect. Check out my handle mod video where I use an 8mm where I use an 8mm shaft to shoot fish at extremely long distances (7m even maybe 8m!).
May I ask if the short and long band cut length are for the two rubbers or you choose either long on both or short on both? Great video none the less and awesome work. :)
I think for this test I used a band stretch of 360%. Calculate length from band hole to shark fin you will put the band and multiply by 2 and then divide by 3.6 for 360%.
I have my gun (the exact one in the video) completely stock except I have a mori shaft and sliptip on it, never have missed a shot or had any troubles with it. But interesting video
Hello my friend, there are very informative videos at your channel. You have changed all of my vision about speargun setup ideas. So I bought OMER Cayman carbon 100 recently. And I bought some of Primeline 14mm Small ID rubber from spearitco. I have two of shafts one of Salvimar 130cm @ 6.5mm and one of OMER stock shaft 140cm @ 6.5mm. Here is the question: are that shafts would be good at 2 x 14mm with correct lenght ? or should I buy thicker shaft ? like Sigalsub 130cm @ 6.75mm and I don't have any big fish in my spearfishing zone (max size 5kg)
For shafts up to 7mm ... you will always have better results with 14mm small ID bands. As you get to heavier shafts, 14.5mm or even 15mm will start to give better results. A heavier shaft will retain velocity better at longer range and thus will have more power at range. A lighter shaft will move faster at closer ranges but loses velocity quicker as the range increases. It all depends on what you need for the conditions you are hunting in.
I wanna setup my xfire 115 so i got rob allen shaft 7mm 150cm and planning to get sigalsub small id 14.5mm but don't now best rubber length for my gun and wishbone length and diameter?
+hamed s I think 2 x 14mm will be enough for that shaft. Of course 2 x 14.5mm will also work. Sigalsub bands can be tough to pull back so I would cut to 350% and then if that is easy for you to load you can go for 360%
Ok. My set up now is 2x 16mm bands with a 7mm riffe shark fin shaft. I'm thinking of trying your set up in this video (2x 14mm small ID w/7.5mm shaft) unless you feel my riffe shaft is sufficient enough to absorb the band power of the small ID's.
Lawrence yadao Yadao The Riffe shaft is 9/32" which is slightly more than a 7mm shaft and is around 7.15mm ... so it has a little more mass than the average 7mm shaft. It all depends what you are hunting and if you need the added penetration, but for sure the 2 x 14mm will work well.
Im using a 130 carbon pathos with a 7mm rob allen shaft and 2 14mm rob allen bands 68cm. Is the rob allen bands small i.d?. Trying to figure out what is best for rage and accuracy. Im from hawaii and targeting uku ulua wahoo etc any help would great thanks!!
Keahi Alden-alonzo Unfortunately with the 130 a 7mm shaft does not work well as it is too long and you will suffer shaft whip, which means that the shaft wobbles too much and thus a lot of energy is dissipated and you get poor accuracy and poor penetration. You can see the test I did if you look carefully at the video (put it HD and full screen) you will see that the 130 shaft does a "wheelie" and hits target with belly. Actually it looks like a hit but is a complete miss. The 120 actually had more penetration on target than the 130 in my penetration test. Check it out here th-cam.com/video/D9S3DQd9NLs/w-d-xo.html For 130 needs more testing for the best setup, but my guess is you need a 7.5mm or 8mm shaft for good performance ... 7mm is just too long and I recommend a maximum of 120 for the Pathos pipe guns ... until I figure out if a good setup for the 130 is possible that is. Personally I am more concerned with the SS problem and a 130 means more power and thus more problems. The trigger issue needs to be fixed before trying more powerful setups.
+favernoogon I put out the offer to him but still has not worked out. I think rollers would be good for very short guns (90cm or under). Not sure it would add too much advantage for larger guns unless you use shaft diameters of 9mm or higher.
+majdq8 yes i read your post explaining how current shaft materials aren't heavy enough to take advantage of a roller gun. still, it's a shame it didn't work out with the offer, would have been great to see under your tests how it compared to a denton or even this pathos set up properly. Ah well, Happy fishing!
I think seal has posted some videos of his latest gun. It is a double roller using a heavy 8.5mm @ 160cm shaft. He uses a similar target as my 10cm hard construction foam and penetration was quite good. I think it should be able to pass my 15cm styroboard test at 6 meters quite easily. I would also be interested to see how it performs in terms of accuracy and penetration on target .... and for me most important is to see how often band tangles happen (if ever). I have had bad experiences with rollers and band tangles unless using a slide ring (which is a non starter).
Hi I already bought a 120 hammerhead , 160 cm and 7mm shaft. It has 130 cm from band hole to shark fin. What size bands you think is better for my new gun. (Pipe gun) time you
I've actually read it and registered on the spear board forum so I could private message you. Only thing is that they won't allow me that option until the administrator activates my account :/ I actually swapped out my DeAngelo II handle for a DeAngelo I and installed the Meandros reverse mech w/side line release. I just can't get my band and shaft setup to be accurate with distance. I usually dive for medium to larger fish (15+ job fish, trevally, emperors) and on occasion BW (wahoo, mahi etc) I'm from Hawaii lol. I guess my question is, based on your knowledge, what band and shaft setup would you prefer? I see you mention 7.5mm w/14mm but also seen 7mm somewhere in another post. Thanks for the reply
Lawrence yadao Yadao Use the exact same bands for 7mm or 7.5mm. You probably are overshooting the 7mm shaft and you don't need all the band power to get the maximum velocity, but really recoil is not so bad and it is useful to have once you switch to 7.5mm. Your shaft will of course, be much faster with the 7.5mm as it will absorb fully the band load, but still the 7mm shaft will work extremely well. The best floppered shaft in 7mm is the Sporasub America One shaft with welded shark fins.
hi there again majdq8 I am going to order 110 open carbon pro and 90 cm pathos open pro both of them with D 1 mech :D but I was wondering with the 110 I install 2x14.5 Sigal @ 360 with 7.5 shaft and with the 90 I install 1 x 16mm small Id Sigal with 7mm shaft 112 @ 330% what do you think :D thx will take videos for pool test and show you after I get your answers :D
+Ayman Abdin Go with 2 x 14mm Primeline small ID bands on both and never look back. That will give you the best performance on both the 90 and 110 including better performance than the same guns with roller kit. The default shaft that come with the Pathos are total crap and will not give good accuracy. I recommend a Sigalsub shaft or Sporasub America One shaft ... or any other good shaft .... get a shaft that is 30cm to 35cm more than your gun number. For 90 keep shaft at 7mm and under ... for the 110 you can go 7.5mm, but if you do then go for 2 x 14.5mm small ID bands. Good idea with getting the D1 handle and plastic trigger ... the SS trigger that comes with the Pathos (even the new version) will fail very quickly unless you put an Ermes upgrade kit. I am doing some testing with the Pathos 82 and 90 and roller kits so keep an eye out for that soon.
+Meddour Wafik For the 110, I recommend a 140cm to 145cm @ 7mm shaft and 2 x 14mm small ID Primeline cut around 360 to 370%. For the Laser Open Carbon that uses a SS trigger, I also recommend you change the sears with the Ermesub kit ... result will be a real laser and very powerful gun.
HI majdq8,How you manage the ballast of the gun. I have ACID carbon 110 with 150 shaft. Test it with 6,5 and 7 mm shaft, 14,5 small ID bands. I like more with 7 mm but the gun start sinking and heavy to keep for hours of hunting. Can you advice why for both set up /6.5 and 7 mm/ the shaft goes left?
You need to modify the handle. Look at my handle videos (3 parts) it gives you all the information on preventing left shift. With ballast you can improve things by using a lighter shaft, or by removing lead from the gun (if it is accessible). The handle modification also helps make things easier on you with bad ballast as a handle mod removes tension from your wrist and your hand automatically supports the gun even if it is slightly nose heavy. Try it you won't regret it.
Nice video, thank you very much for sharing your knowledge, learned a lot in general about setups. Now a question, I've recently got my carbon laser 120, but it came with a 7,5 mm 160 cm shaft barb on top and the same bands as yours. I rounded the tip. It shoots really low. Do you think I can get an good shot by changing the bands to small id 14/14,5 mm Prime or Sigalsub reactive pro? I'm also going to install the Ermes kit soon.
+Lorenz The Ermes kit is not an option it is a necessity ... you cannot get any reasonable power without damaging the default trigger, thus you need to change out the sears. As for your shaft coming with a 7.5mm @ 160cm ... that is a little strange as I think the default shaft for the Pathos 120 is a 140cm or 150cm @ 7mm shaft with flopper down. Obviously a flopper on the top will vector shaft down, especially if there is no cone. Also the longer the shaft overhang you have the lower the gun will shoot. So if you can move your gun to say a 140cm or 150cm shaft, your shots will impact a bit higher. I do think you will get great improvement with 14mm small ID Primeline bands. The 14.5mm Sigal are not necessary for 7.5mm diameter @ 150cm shaft.
+majdq8 Ermes kit is on his way! heheh Yes the default setup is with 7mm 150cm, don't know why mine came with 7,5mm, if it would be 10cm shorter I would not complain about it :D the shaft overhangs 22cm. I will try the 14mm, and soon get a 150cm. Thanks again!
Yes check the video I put regarding installation of Ermes parts. Good idea to go with the Primeline small ID bands @14mm and Sigalsub 7.5mm coned shaft @ 150cm. I think this is the best setup for this gun.
+majdq8 One more question, why did you use 70cm 72cm bands with the 7,5mm and shorter ones with the 7mm? Isn't it better to have more streching with a 7,5mm?
Band stretch is not an exact science because band diameter can change from batch to batch from same manufacturer. I generally try for 360% stretch but on thicker bands that can go down to 350%. You want to have a band stretch that is a little hard to pull back but not uncomfortably hard. The ideal stretch is about 20% above what is required for terminal velocity of the shaft. This is to allow for some loss of power on a loaded gun with time. You can lose up to 20% of your power by just having the gun loaded for an hour or so without firing. This way you will not feel any drop in power that could affect you impact location.
Carbon or Aluminium barrel doesn't really change anything except for ballasting. Maybe a Carbon barrel is slightly stiffer, but at 120cm you really won't notice much difference. I certainly can't see much difference even with a 130cm barrel.
nice vids thanks. i want to get the 110 laser carbon. I think with the original shaft 7mm 140cm and just one sandow 18 sigalsub what do you think? and why do you prefer dangelo I than the II? i have no problem with the dangelo II on my saragos 90 and 100 with one rubber 16 thanks
With one rubber you should be ok ... but with heavier loads you will need to upgrade the trigger sears on the SS trigger. On the D'Angelo 1 is no problem as the trigger sear is plastic and will not scratch or gall.
These are Primeline small ID bands. You can buy them from spearitco.com or spearamerica.com or benthicoceansports.com ... and probably quite a few other places.
I am about to use the setup for fish up to 15kg you suggest 360% stretch. you mean the short band on the first shark fin an the long band on the rear shark fin of the shaft right?
I calculate cut band stretch as being distance between shark fin and band hole ... multiply by 2 (for 2 sides) then divide by stretch factor ... for 360% that would be divide by 3.6 Each band would be different lengths with the cold band I put a blue wishbone and the longer hot band a red wishbone.
i see you put the long band on the last shark fin and the short band on the middle shark fin. is there a difference if you put them at the same fin at 360% both?
Yes I don't recommend that. You will not get a clear sight picture as the bands will be on top of each other. You want a nice clean unobstructed sight picture to be able to see your target without the bands being in the way. This gives better accuracy. If you want to keep both bands at same fin, then make the wishbone of the first band about 5 cm longer than the second band ... this way the bands will sit nice and you have good sight picture.
I have purchased both the 14mm and 15mm Cressi Pure small ID bands but haven't tested them yet. They are made by Primeline so I expect similar performance to other Primeline bands.
Hi, Majdq8, I tried the C4 120 Urukay with 3 x 14.5 Sigal @ 360% and 8mm shaft 160 spring steel, the shoots was high and shoots a bet right, Could you please tell me, what do you think what might be the issue? thx man
If you are left handed then it could be simply "right shift" ... this can be fixed with handle shaping. If you are right handed and shots are going right ... then that would be unusual. Could possibly be that your line is snagging on the line release or in the muzzle ... try laying the line loose and not rigged and see if you still get that deviation.
majdq8 , I have been having a hell of a time with my pathos hitting to the right, and yes I'm a lefty shooter. When you say handle shaping, do you mean adding epoxy to the grip for a better fit, and/or are there other things I can do? It's a real problem...
+ALEXANDROS ANDREOU I think something similar to my Sporasub 105 setup test. You will have plenty of power with 2 x 14mm bands @ 360% stretch for even long range shots.
I have the same exact gun (pathos laser open carbon 120cm) I'm having issues with both accuracy and distance. I see your best results was with a 7.5mm shaft and 14mm small ID primelines. I would greatly appreciate if I could somehow contact you via email? Then I can get into detail with you on my gun and maybe get some advice from you on the right set up. I seen your video on trigger mechs sears getting damaged too. Any reply would be greatly appreciated. Thanks
Lawrence yadao Yadao Check out this link on the spearboard forum. A lot of information on the problems with the SS trigger and maybe some solutions. www.spearboard.com/showthread.php?t=183131
Joel Harper I cannot recommend the D'Angelo II SS handle with the trigger it has as it gets damaged very quickly and this makes trigger pull get worse and worse. You can of course use the D'Angelo I handle with the plastic trigger until the problems of the SS trigger are fixed. The setup in the video is by far the best setup I was able to get with the Pathos 120 gun ... that came after many days of testing different setups.
+angus laut Good question and I am not sure I know the full answer. Maybe the thinner bands have less resistance in water and can contract faster, thus transferring more energy. Or maybe the thicker shaft has more recoil causing shaft to come out less stable and thus loses velocity quicker.
+majdq8 was the shaft in the gun using the 14mm bands smaller? Just curious about the rubbers because i have always been gearing my gun with stronger and stronger bands as i get stronger but maybe that isnt the way to go
No was identical shaft and line. I have a few shafts that I use for testing and the 160cm @ 8mm Hunt shaft is one of the best. It has a recessed flopper which makes it very accurate with excellent penetration on target. You will see the same shaft and line tested in my Abellan Denton 130 2016 test and the Oceanborn 125 and the Pathos 130 etc...
The 155cm @ 7.5mm coned shaft from Sigalsub with 2 x 14mm bands is a match made in heaven with the Pathos 120. Incredible power with incredible accuracy.
Hey and thanks for the great video. I have Pathos 120 carbon, and find the original set-up too bulky and hard to move in water. I see no place where I can get the SigalSub bands, but I found the new BlueTec 14.5mm reduced ID bands. www.diveshop.gr/index.php/bleutec-bleu-power.html Did you hear about them? Do you think that it'll perform as good as the 14mm small ID bands on your set-up right now? Or maybe I should buy SpearAmerica's 14mm small ID Primeline (which is actually 13.6 ? )? Most of my fish are 10-17KG so I believe 65cm and 68cm bands will fit to my needs with the original pathos 7mm spear. What do you think ?
Yan966 The 14mm bands I used here I got from Spearamerica so they are very good. As for the Bleutec 14.5mm bands, if they are the small ID bands then most likely they are the new small ID formulation which is very good. Give them a call and ask if they are the new Primeline small ID bands. You don't need the 14.5mm bands on the Pathos 120 because the Pathos 120 has a lot of band stretch. The 14.5mm bands from say Sigalsub are actually 14.6mm and will have much more recoil and maybe no gain in power.
majdq8 Thanks mate, I sent them an email right now, I'll update with an answer. If I find a cheaper [shipping] way of buying those 14mm primeline from the US i'll order it. Also, I see that you tied "quick replacement loops" on your bands, I believe that you did it similarly to this way: www.medfish.com/ezine/?p=157 Am I right? I have a local store where I can buy this model of Dyneema 1.5mm/2mm [ i.imgur.com/sMABomJ.png ], do you think it is good enough? or should I find anything better? thanks!
Yan966 Yes I use 1.9mm dyneema or spectra loops. I looked at the link, there really is no need for a bead and the knot is enough. After I make the knots I dip them in plasti dip or electric liquid tape ... I dip to just over where my constrictor knot will be (this prevent water siphoning into the bands when you go deep). I don't use soap and water, I use either aquarium silicone or contact cement ... this gives me lubrication to push the knot in and also become a nice flexible waterproof seal when it dries. One day I will make a video of how I tie bands. As for bands with small ID, the old Bleutec 14.5mm bands are terrible and have no power. But I think they have seen the videos and most likely will now switch to the new smaller ID band material from Primeline. Again, best is to call and check.
majdq8 Thanks for the quick answer - I am looking forward to see your video ;-) It is interesting, nothing happens to the plastidip while you stretch the band? I'll let you know what they said about the BlueTec rubber.
You put the plasti dip on the wishbone loop to cover the knot and above where you will put your constrictor knot. You then let the plasti dip dry before installing it. The plasti dip will not go in the bands it is just to keep water getting siphoned in from the wishbones to inside the band cavity.
+Kapono Nihipali Yes same bands were used throughout the video. 360% cut means you take the distance from band hole to shark fin multiply by 2 and divide by 3.6. So for 125cm band stretch it would be (125 x 2)/3.6 ... which is around 70cm. The percentage can of course change a little as band material can have different diameters with different batches. Sigalsub seems to have very accurate diameters though as the Sigalsub Extreme 14.5mm are actually around 14.6mm while the Primeline 14mm are actually 13.7mm and can vary by as much as .5mm between different batches of the same diameter.
+schak123 Yes that is possible ... maybe the extra mass of the 18mm bands push the gun muzzle a little and that causes a shift in shaft on exit. Note that because of that shift, the shaft will not fly properly and will lose velocity. So even if you aim right to compensate, you will have less velocity and less penetration on target. Power comes from properly controlling shaft flight and making sure that you don't lose velocity due to oscillating shaft.
Unfortunately I don't. But give 2 x 14mm bands @ 360% a try. I think results will be very good. 125cm of band stretch can easily get a 7mm or 7.5mm to very fast velocities. Check my Abellan 120 video as it has about 122cm of band stretch and might give you a good starting point.
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Really great
Thank you for sharing your experience
Thank you for your job!
Why do you recommend shorter bands on the lighter shaft? The video states 65 cm and 68 cm on the 7 mm shaft and 70 cm and 72 cm on the 7.5 mm shaft. I would think the larger shaft needs more power and the thicker shaft is less prone to shaft whip.
Thanks for all the testing!
Awesome ajustes apropiados.
If I'm not wrong Phatos 120 has a bit more stretched band than Riiffe 120. Gracias excelente vídeo.
Yes the Pathos 120 has about 12 cm more band stretch than the Riffe 120X and is a much smaller footprint gun. This is because it has a shorter loading pad and a reverse trigger.
Would Sigalsub Tahitian shaft with double barb and cone work the same ?
Thank you for your nice Videos!
Why do u think the Spear go left? maybe because of 18mm band? 2x18mm bands is not to much for 120cm gun?
Love the video, very informative. Whats the band length when you were shooting the Sigalsub 155cm x 7.5mm @ 5 meters? still at 70cm and 72cm?
would you recommend a similar setup for the same gun but 110? i'm having accuracy issues. Tried converting it to Roller with a 7mm pathos shaft but didn't resolve, from 4m it is shooting approx 15cm low and way left off target. After watching this i was thinking of switching back to open muzzle and replacing shaft to Sigal 7mm and maybe rubber too
hi. With a Bleutec Lycan 120 it comes with 7mm shaft. and 3 bands 14mm small ID. and also two 16mm . you think is okay ? or change shaft for a 7.5. and two 14.5mm small ID bands ? Please hope you answer. Thanks
Amazing test.i have a couple of questions. First to do with band behaviour at depth. I read that you talk about water infiltration as the root cause for potential miss shots. Can you explain better? Second, i would like to have your opinion on the set up of my 115 assembled carbon gun. It has a 7mm hunt shaft and 2 16mm giman bands (not sure what ID) @330. Would you recommend any different. Have you.got a FB account?
Would the same concepts of the 14mm bands also apply to a Pathos Sniper?
There is no cone on Sporasub America One shaft in this test,
isn’t there?
That defenately accurate enough for large fish
Hi again, have tried double flopper shafts with this setup? I am not sure if it will go straight or the tip of the shaft will rise up.?
am thinking to buy pathos 120, i saw your video with thanks , i have seen your best setup to change the shaft and bands . what about the trigger is there any problem ?
hi, i have a pathos laser open pro aluminum. I want to use shaft rob allen 7.5mm x 160 with 360% stretch 14mm primeline bands.
What do you think of that configuration? I could also use the 6.75mm from pathos for small fish with the same bands?.
Your videos are very sweet. Thank you.
How many centímetros has that gun. From hole band to Shari fin ? Band strech ?..
bro please I Need the best setup for C4 URUKAY for now I but 3 sigalsub extreme 14.5 Rubber band and 8mm spear master shaft with large fins . can you do one test with the urukay that you have it and let me know the recommendation about it and best setup for it
I am a little confused, how did the gun have better penetration power with 2 x 14 mm rubber as opposed to 2 x 18mm rubber?
if you use a shark fin does it change the results?
Hi . I got a Lycan carbon Bleu Tec 7.5 mm. 160 cm shaft. Band stretch since band hole to last shark fin 126 cm. I already get a Hammer Head 14.5 band. My question is what size exactly cut it ? Wishbone size ? Thanks
Bossy it seems to me that ur hand till a bit to the left or it's my sight is bad but it looks tilt to me
What 7.5mm shaft from sigalsub do you recommend exactly? There are a lot of options.
I just got a MVD Predator 120 size. 160 cm and 7.5 mm shaft. 130 cm band stretch. What band recommended? Size ? Large in cm. Small ID ? Thanks. Hope you answer
what material are you using for the target?
hello, please which is best, saragos carbone or laser carbone on 100cm?
best 2*14mm ou 2*16? or single 17.5?
thanks
Hey man, you probably get this question a lot but what are your favorite rollers? Looking to get a Pathos Roller Sniper 95 for reef and smaller blue water fish, kind of a do it all gun. What are your favorites?
Awesome! I'm gonna try the 14mm bands with 7.5mm shaft set up. Any suggestions on where to get the Small ID bands and a 7.5 shaft from? Would brand matter on the shaft if I go 7.5? I want to keep it as close as possible to what you have. Proof is in the video
Lawrence yadao Yadao Best 7mm shaft on earth is the Sporasub America One shaft with welded fins. For 7.5mm I really like the Sigalsub as it has a cone. You need a cone or a recessed flopper for good shaft flight and good penetration and good accuracy. I also like to have a rest tab to allow loading of hot bands. The Riffe 7mm shaft is excellent quality, but it doesn't have a rest tab or a cone or recessed flopper and wouldn't be my first choice.
Love your videos, extremely informative! Keep them coming!
As an alternative to the sporasub one 150cm 7mm shaft for the pathos 120, what other shaft would you recommend? or not recommend? Sigalsub 7mm 150cm perhaps?
+Gone Freediving Well for one I wouldn't recommend the Pathos shaft! Other good shafts are from Trygons, Devotosub, Sigalsub, Hunt etc...
Hunt and Kamax.. Are d best.
@@majdq8 I have a stupid but interesting idea for your videos. try to shoot an arrow with a hunting tip from a lead gun. with a broadhead tip. compare a normal arrow for spearfishing and a broadhead arrow for land hunting with a bow. Use underwater spear but with hunting broadhead.
Hi, I have 150 cm - 7mm skewers on my hand pathos laser open carbon 110. Can I have your best combination suggestion? Thanks
Have you ever tested pneumatic?
What do you think, thanks
Hey mate, awesome videos of great help for anyone wanting to see what their gun can do. I have a C4 Graphite99 with double rubber,1x14mm and another 16mm one with a 130cm 7mm shaft. I'm making 5meter shots no prob with the 99cm gun so happy with that. Would be interesting to see what you could achieve with that gun. To my question though. Just got myself a pathos laser open 90 and would like to know lf l can apply an approx config to the one you used on the carbon one. If not, any recommendations? Thanks for the vids, please keep them coming. btw, is that pathos carbon THAT good? it seems to matche the abellan in performance and accuracy
+77gerald77 I have not tested either the C4 Graphite or the Pathos 90. I do have a C4 Urukay 120 but haven't had a chance to even get it wet As for the Pathos 90, the problem is that a 90cm gun is going to be using 120cm shaft ... that is a very short shaft with very little mass I don't think it will have good performance at anything more than 1 wrap, which is about 4 meters. I generally power my 90cm guns with a single 20mm band with a 120 or 130cm 6.5mm or 6.75mm shaft, and to be honest all the fish I hunt these days need much more power than that. I do think that 2 x 14mm small ID bands will be a good choice.
@@majdq8 I have a stupid but interesting idea for your videos. try to shoot an arrow with a hunting tip from a lead gun. with a broadhead tip. compare a normal arrow for spearfishing and a broadhead arrow for land hunting with a bow.
Thanks for all your excellent vids! Where in the States do you buy small id 14 mm Primeline rubber? I’ve recently bought 14mm 1/8” id rubber from Spearit Co in Florida and I think they do not carry 14mm
1/16” id.
Spearitco have 14mm small ID bands but they might be out of stock ... that is where I usually buy my small ID bands. You can also get them from benthicoceansports.com and spearamerica.com and redtrianglespearfishing.com ... probably several other places have them as well.
Una preguntaaaa q tan bueno es ese arpón quiero saber si como arme uno de ese!??!!!!!!!!!! Y tiene un buen alcance y buena potencia!!!??!!!!!!
The first test only was with the d'sngelo1 handle and 18 bands
Hey Majd. Avid fan of your vids, hope you keep them coming!
Need some advice on what set up to use on an old Laser Open(90cm) l want to restore for general use. Its got an old discarded Rob Allen Tuna open muzzle at the front and have just ordered the D Angelo 1 handle and trigg mech to go with it. Im thinking of going with a 7mm Sigalsub(i think, brand ink has rubbed off), with the same type fin tabs found on old Abellan Robalo's and 2x14 or 14.5 Sigalsub reactive rubber. Do you think im heading on the right direction with set up? Really like to use that 7mm shaft as its got 'sentiental' (30k amberjack) value. Appreciate any tips you could give me
A laser open 90cm with a D1 handle can be setups really nice. The Sigal 7mm shaft with 2 x 14mm small ID bands at around 360% ... and you are a happy camper. I don't think you can use the RA tuna muzzle on it. Or at least I was not able to make that work. Just use the muzzle that came with the Pathos and it should work fine.
majdq8 Thanks for the reply mate. Def go with the setup youve suggested then. Just need a cone for my old sigalsub 7mm shaft(been sharpened so many times there's barely 3cm between point and flopper). Ref the RA Tuna muzzle, it works fine on the barrel after sanding the inner section of the muzzle a bit. Love how the bands fall in line with the barrel when using the RA muzzle! Hope to get 4.5m range shots with the setup. One more question please. Does the D Angelo 1 suffer from the same issue as the two or can l use a 7.5mm shaft in the future(as long as l'm man enough to handle the recoil....🤣)?
Thanks a lot again🤙✌
The Dangelo 1 has no issues with regards to the trigger and is actually a much better fitting handle. I do recommend you mod the handle if you want optimal performance. Check out my handle mod video. Cone is an excellent idea for the shaft, and 4.5m range should be a piece of cake.
majdq8 K Majd, greatly appreciated. 🖖
I think the grip is making a difference here I can see that it slips or rotates in you hand with the recoil. it can also be that the way you jerk it slightly while squeezing the trigger. Have you tried shooting it with the left hand?
+emerald596 Yes grip fit is terrible for my hand with D'Angelo II handle. I have since customized all my grips with the D'Angelo II and now even with 130 gun and 8mm shaft, I can shoot very accurately with it. Here is a video of my test after customizing the handle
th-cam.com/video/cS9_qsP8f6A/w-d-xo.html
Hello, your videos are very helpful and i am seriously starting to consider buying this gun with this exact set up. But I am not sure about the 7.5mm shaft. I can see it is accurate due to reduced shaft whip, also I can see it has good penetration due to its larger mass. My question is, in the sea will it be too slow? Because that is what I hear repeatedly from many people, and that is it is better to use a 7 or 7.2mm since in the sea it will be much faster. Please, if you do has the time it will awesome if you could share your thoughts and give me an answer. Take care.
I even use an 8mm shaft :) Don't worry 7.5mm is perfect for longer ranges. For shorter ranges 7mm is perfect say up to 5 meters from tip of shaft ... 7mm is perfect. Check out my handle mod video where I use an 8mm where I use an 8mm shaft to shoot fish at extremely long distances (7m even maybe 8m!).
@@majdq8 Ok I will definitely check it out! Thank you for the information and for taking the time to reply!
May I ask if the short and long band cut length are for the two rubbers or you choose either long on both or short on both? Great video none the less and awesome work. :)
Nvm, you already answered someone else in the comments.
I think for this test I used a band stretch of 360%. Calculate length from band hole to shark fin you will put the band and multiply by 2 and then divide by 3.6 for 360%.
Alright, thank you!
I have my gun (the exact one in the video) completely stock except I have a mori shaft and sliptip on it, never have missed a shot or had any troubles with it. But interesting video
OCDive 21 Where did you buy the shaft?
Hi what means 34 cfm?
Hello my friend, there are very informative videos at your channel. You have changed all of my vision about speargun setup ideas. So I bought OMER Cayman carbon 100 recently. And I bought some of Primeline 14mm Small ID rubber from spearitco. I have two of shafts one of Salvimar 130cm @ 6.5mm and one of OMER stock shaft 140cm @ 6.5mm. Here is the question: are that shafts would be good at 2 x 14mm with correct lenght ? or should I buy thicker shaft ? like Sigalsub 130cm @ 6.75mm and I don't have any big fish in my spearfishing zone (max size 5kg)
For shafts up to 7mm ... you will always have better results with 14mm small ID bands. As you get to heavier shafts, 14.5mm or even 15mm will start to give better results. A heavier shaft will retain velocity better at longer range and thus will have more power at range. A lighter shaft will move faster at closer ranges but loses velocity quicker as the range increases. It all depends on what you need for the conditions you are hunting in.
thnx for info man keep it good stuff
I wanna setup my xfire 115 so i got rob allen shaft 7mm 150cm and planning to get sigalsub small id 14.5mm but don't now best rubber length for my gun and wishbone length and diameter?
+hamed s I think 2 x 14mm will be enough for that shaft. Of course 2 x 14.5mm will also work. Sigalsub bands can be tough to pull back so I would cut to 350% and then if that is easy for you to load you can go for 360%
Ok. My set up now is 2x 16mm bands with a 7mm riffe shark fin shaft. I'm thinking of trying your set up in this video (2x 14mm small ID w/7.5mm shaft) unless you feel my riffe shaft is sufficient enough to absorb the band power of the small ID's.
Lawrence yadao Yadao The Riffe shaft is 9/32" which is slightly more than a 7mm shaft and is around 7.15mm ... so it has a little more mass than the average 7mm shaft. It all depends what you are hunting and if you need the added penetration, but for sure the 2 x 14mm will work well.
Im using a 130 carbon pathos with a 7mm rob allen shaft and 2 14mm rob allen bands 68cm. Is the rob allen bands small i.d?. Trying to figure out what is best for rage and accuracy. Im from hawaii and targeting uku ulua wahoo etc any help would great thanks!!
Keahi Alden-alonzo Unfortunately with the 130 a 7mm shaft does not work well as it is too long and you will suffer shaft whip, which means that the shaft wobbles too much and thus a lot of energy is dissipated and you get poor accuracy and poor penetration. You can see the test I did if you look carefully at the video (put it HD and full screen) you will see that the 130 shaft does a "wheelie" and hits target with belly. Actually it looks like a hit but is a complete miss. The 120 actually had more penetration on target than the 130 in my penetration test. Check it out here
th-cam.com/video/D9S3DQd9NLs/w-d-xo.html
For 130 needs more testing for the best setup, but my guess is you need a 7.5mm or 8mm shaft for good performance ... 7mm is just too long and I recommend a maximum of 120 for the Pathos pipe guns ... until I figure out if a good setup for the 130 is possible that is. Personally I am more concerned with the SS problem and a 130 means more power and thus more problems. The trigger issue needs to be fixed before trying more powerful setups.
Hi this set up for clear water is able to for my lycan bleutec 120. .? From hole band to Shari fin. Has 127cm
Yes sure it would work. 127cm of band stretch is very good band stretch and almost identical to the band stretch of the Pathos 120.
Hi majdq8, will you be testing any of seal's rollers soon? interested to see the results/ hear your take on them.
+favernoogon I put out the offer to him but still has not worked out. I think rollers would be good for very short guns (90cm or under). Not sure it would add too much advantage for larger guns unless you use shaft diameters of 9mm or higher.
+majdq8 yes i read your post explaining how current shaft materials aren't heavy enough to take advantage of a roller gun. still, it's a shame it didn't work out with the offer, would have been great to see under your tests how it compared to a denton or even this pathos set up properly. Ah well,
Happy fishing!
I think seal has posted some videos of his latest gun. It is a double roller using a heavy 8.5mm @ 160cm shaft. He uses a similar target as my 10cm hard construction foam and penetration was quite good. I think it should be able to pass my 15cm styroboard test at 6 meters quite easily. I would also be interested to see how it performs in terms of accuracy and penetration on target .... and for me most important is to see how often band tangles happen (if ever). I have had bad experiences with rollers and band tangles unless using a slide ring (which is a non starter).
Hi I already bought a 120 hammerhead , 160 cm and 7mm shaft. It has 130 cm from band hole to shark fin. What size bands you think is better for my new gun. (Pipe gun) time you
(Time you ) wrong I mean Thank you
I've actually read it and registered on the spear board forum so I could private message you. Only thing is that they won't allow me that option until the administrator activates my account :/ I actually swapped out my DeAngelo II handle for a DeAngelo I and installed the Meandros reverse mech w/side line release. I just can't get my band and shaft setup to be accurate with distance. I usually dive for medium to larger fish (15+ job fish, trevally, emperors) and on occasion BW (wahoo, mahi etc) I'm from Hawaii lol. I guess my question is, based on your knowledge, what band and shaft setup would you prefer? I see you mention 7.5mm w/14mm but also seen 7mm somewhere in another post. Thanks for the reply
Lawrence yadao Yadao Use the exact same bands for 7mm or 7.5mm. You probably are overshooting the 7mm shaft and you don't need all the band power to get the maximum velocity, but really recoil is not so bad and it is useful to have once you switch to 7.5mm. Your shaft will of course, be much faster with the 7.5mm as it will absorb fully the band load, but still the 7mm shaft will work extremely well. The best floppered shaft in 7mm is the Sporasub America One shaft with welded shark fins.
complimenti sinceri per i tuoi test.
peccato che sia solo in inglese altrimenti per me sarebbero molto utili ed istruttivi.
🖒
hi there again majdq8
I am going to order 110 open carbon pro and 90 cm pathos open pro both of them with D 1 mech :D
but I was wondering with the 110 I install 2x14.5 Sigal @ 360 with 7.5 shaft and with the 90 I install 1 x 16mm small Id Sigal with 7mm shaft 112 @ 330%
what do you think :D thx
will take videos for pool test and show you after I get your answers :D
+Ayman Abdin Go with 2 x 14mm Primeline small ID bands on both and never look back. That will give you the best performance on both the 90 and 110 including better performance than the same guns with roller kit. The default shaft that come with the Pathos are total crap and will not give good accuracy. I recommend a Sigalsub shaft or Sporasub America One shaft ... or any other good shaft .... get a shaft that is 30cm to 35cm more than your gun number. For 90 keep shaft at 7mm and under ... for the 110 you can go 7.5mm, but if you do then go for 2 x 14.5mm small ID bands. Good idea with getting the D1 handle and plastic trigger ... the SS trigger that comes with the Pathos (even the new version) will fail very quickly unless you put an Ermes upgrade kit. I am doing some testing with the Pathos 82 and 90 and roller kits so keep an eye out for that soon.
i want some advises abt the laser open carbon 110 thx for the answer ;)
+Meddour Wafik For the 110, I recommend a 140cm to 145cm @ 7mm shaft and 2 x 14mm small ID Primeline cut around 360 to 370%. For the Laser Open Carbon that uses a SS trigger, I also recommend you change the sears with the Ermesub kit ... result will be a real laser and very powerful gun.
+majdq8 thx i really apreciate :)
HI majdq8,How you manage the ballast of the gun. I have ACID carbon 110 with 150 shaft. Test it with 6,5 and 7 mm shaft, 14,5 small ID bands. I like more with 7 mm but the gun start sinking and heavy to keep for hours of hunting. Can you advice why for both set up /6.5 and 7 mm/ the shaft goes left?
You need to modify the handle. Look at my handle videos (3 parts) it gives you all the information on preventing left shift. With ballast you can improve things by using a lighter shaft, or by removing lead from the gun (if it is accessible). The handle modification also helps make things easier on you with bad ballast as a handle mod removes tension from your wrist and your hand automatically supports the gun even if it is slightly nose heavy. Try it you won't regret it.
Thank you very much majdq8
Nice video, thank you very much for sharing your knowledge, learned a lot in general about setups. Now a question, I've recently got my carbon laser 120, but it came with a 7,5 mm 160 cm shaft barb on top and the same bands as yours. I rounded the tip. It shoots really low. Do you think I can get an good shot by changing the bands to small id 14/14,5 mm Prime or Sigalsub reactive pro?
I'm also going to install the Ermes kit soon.
+Lorenz The Ermes kit is not an option it is a necessity ... you cannot get any reasonable power without damaging the default trigger, thus you need to change out the sears. As for your shaft coming with a 7.5mm @ 160cm ... that is a little strange as I think the default shaft for the Pathos 120 is a 140cm or 150cm @ 7mm shaft with flopper down. Obviously a flopper on the top will vector shaft down, especially if there is no cone. Also the longer the shaft overhang you have the lower the gun will shoot. So if you can move your gun to say a 140cm or 150cm shaft, your shots will impact a bit higher. I do think you will get great improvement with 14mm small ID Primeline bands. The 14.5mm Sigal are not necessary for 7.5mm diameter @ 150cm shaft.
+majdq8 Ermes kit is on his way! heheh
Yes the default setup is with 7mm 150cm, don't know why mine came with 7,5mm, if it would be 10cm shorter I would not complain about it :D the shaft overhangs 22cm. I will try the 14mm, and soon get a 150cm.
Thanks again!
Yes check the video I put regarding installation of Ermes parts. Good idea to go with the Primeline small ID bands @14mm and Sigalsub 7.5mm coned shaft @ 150cm. I think this is the best setup for this gun.
+majdq8 One more question, why did you use 70cm 72cm bands with the 7,5mm and shorter ones with the 7mm? Isn't it better to have more streching with a 7,5mm?
Band stretch is not an exact science because band diameter can change from batch to batch from same manufacturer. I generally try for 360% stretch but on thicker bands that can go down to 350%. You want to have a band stretch that is a little hard to pull back but not uncomfortably hard. The ideal stretch is about 20% above what is required for terminal velocity of the shaft. This is to allow for some loss of power on a loaded gun with time. You can lose up to 20% of your power by just having the gun loaded for an hour or so without firing. This way you will not feel any drop in power that could affect you impact location.
Hi. Would you recommend the configurations of carbon barrel for aluminum barrel?
Regards.
Carbon or Aluminium barrel doesn't really change anything except for ballasting. Maybe a Carbon barrel is slightly stiffer, but at 120cm you really won't notice much difference. I certainly can't see much difference even with a 130cm barrel.
Agree . Thank you
That hapens withe all spearguns when you dont close the left eye
nice vids thanks. i want to get the 110 laser carbon. I think with the original shaft 7mm 140cm and just one sandow 18 sigalsub what do you think? and why do you prefer dangelo I than the II? i have no problem with the dangelo II on my saragos 90 and 100 with one rubber 16 thanks
With one rubber you should be ok ... but with heavier loads you will need to upgrade the trigger sears on the SS trigger. On the D'Angelo 1 is no problem as the trigger sear is plastic and will not scratch or gall.
ok thanks, and which rubber yon think for the laser 110 if just one rubber and coefficient?
With just one rubber, I think you need to go to maybe a 17.5mm or 19mm band ... but the shooting range of such a setup is just one wrap.
majdq8 ok I think I Will stay with saragos and his 6.5mm and 150 cm shaft and one Rubber 18mm. i don t like shorter shaft. thanks
i don t understand your last sentence sorry; what do you mean
The guns not shooting left the recoil pushes the gun right therefore pushing spear left
would this set up work for the non carbon?
Yes of course!
Salam brother, can you tell what the exact ID is on these bands and where can I get them? thanks in advance.
These are Primeline small ID bands. You can buy them from spearitco.com or spearamerica.com or benthicoceansports.com ... and probably quite a few other places.
+majdq8 thank you
I am about to use the setup for fish up to 15kg you suggest 360% stretch. you mean the short band on the first shark fin an the long band on the rear shark fin of the shaft right?
I calculate cut band stretch as being distance between shark fin and band hole ... multiply by 2 (for 2 sides) then divide by stretch factor ... for 360% that would be divide by 3.6 Each band would be different lengths with the cold band I put a blue wishbone and the longer hot band a red wishbone.
i see you put the long band on the last shark fin and the short band on the middle shark fin. is there a difference if you put them at the same fin at 360% both?
Yes I don't recommend that. You will not get a clear sight picture as the bands will be on top of each other. You want a nice clean unobstructed sight picture to be able to see your target without the bands being in the way. This gives better accuracy. If you want to keep both bands at same fin, then make the wishbone of the first band about 5 cm longer than the second band ... this way the bands will sit nice and you have good sight picture.
thanks for the advice i will setup my 120 just like the video and hope it shoots fine
my friend, did you try Cressi pure rubber 15mm with 1mm hole inside?
I have purchased both the 14mm and 15mm Cressi Pure small ID bands but haven't tested them yet. They are made by Primeline so I expect similar performance to other Primeline bands.
Hi, Majdq8, I tried the C4 120 Urukay with 3 x 14.5 Sigal @ 360% and 8mm shaft 160 spring steel, the shoots was high and shoots a bet right, Could you please tell me, what do you think what might be the issue? thx man
If you are left handed then it could be simply "right shift" ... this can be fixed with handle shaping. If you are right handed and shots are going right ... then that would be unusual. Could possibly be that your line is snagging on the line release or in the muzzle ... try laying the line loose and not rigged and see if you still get that deviation.
Thx alot! I will try that!
majdq8 , I have been having a hell of a time with my pathos hitting to the right, and yes I'm a lefty shooter. When you say handle shaping, do you mean adding epoxy to the grip for a better fit, and/or are there other things I can do? It's a real problem...
i am going to buy pathos laser open carbon 100, what set up do you suggest me for fishes up to 15 kg?
+ALEXANDROS ANDREOU I think something similar to my Sporasub 105 setup test. You will have plenty of power with 2 x 14mm bands @ 360% stretch for even long range shots.
thanks for the answer , so 2x14mm with 7mm schaft?
+ALEXANDROS ANDREOU Yes 2 x 14mm small ID bands cut at 360% with a good quality 7mm shaft will work perfect.
+majdq8 thanks to much!!
I have the same exact gun (pathos laser open carbon 120cm) I'm having issues with both accuracy and distance. I see your best results was with a 7.5mm shaft and 14mm small ID primelines. I would greatly appreciate if I could somehow contact you via email? Then I can get into detail with you on my gun and maybe get some advice from you on the right set up. I seen your video on trigger mechs sears getting damaged too. Any reply would be greatly appreciated. Thanks
Lawrence yadao Yadao Check out this link on the spearboard forum. A lot of information on the problems with the SS trigger and maybe some solutions. www.spearboard.com/showthread.php?t=183131
So can I use a 7.5 mm shaft with this mech and do you recommend shaving a bit off the top like in your other video ??
Joel Harper I cannot recommend the D'Angelo II SS handle with the trigger it has as it gets damaged very quickly and this makes trigger pull get worse and worse. You can of course use the D'Angelo I handle with the plastic trigger until the problems of the SS trigger are fixed. The setup in the video is by far the best setup I was able to get with the Pathos 120 gun ... that came after many days of testing different setups.
how do the twin 14's give more power than the twin 18's?
+angus laut Good question and I am not sure I know the full answer. Maybe the thinner bands have less resistance in water and can contract faster, thus transferring more energy. Or maybe the thicker shaft has more recoil causing shaft to come out less stable and thus loses velocity quicker.
+majdq8 was the shaft in the gun using the 14mm bands smaller? Just curious about the rubbers because i have always been gearing my gun with stronger and stronger bands as i get stronger but maybe that isnt the way to go
No was identical shaft and line. I have a few shafts that I use for testing and the 160cm @ 8mm Hunt shaft is one of the best. It has a recessed flopper which makes it very accurate with excellent penetration on target. You will see the same shaft and line tested in my Abellan Denton 130 2016 test and the Oceanborn 125 and the Pathos 130 etc...
majdq8 thanks for that. think im going to try one of those shafts when the one im using now needs replacing
The 155cm @ 7.5mm coned shaft from Sigalsub with 2 x 14mm bands is a match made in heaven with the Pathos 120. Incredible power with incredible accuracy.
If you are not spearing at deep (i.e. 0-10 meters) use 6.5mm shaft with 14mm tnt rubbers and see the accuracy👍
single or double rubber
@@zeynelgoren2169 14mm double.
are those tnt rubbers similar to primeline? I see there are huge differences between brands
I will buy it with 6.75 shaft and 2 rubbers 16mm
both setups have too much kick which is affecting your accuracy.
Sorry but have never tried that gun.
Hey and thanks for the great video.
I have Pathos 120 carbon, and find the original set-up too bulky and hard to move in water.
I see no place where I can get the SigalSub bands, but I found the new BlueTec 14.5mm reduced ID bands.
www.diveshop.gr/index.php/bleutec-bleu-power.html
Did you hear about them?
Do you think that it'll perform as good as the 14mm small ID bands on your set-up right now?
Or maybe I should buy SpearAmerica's 14mm small ID Primeline (which is actually 13.6 ? )?
Most of my fish are 10-17KG so I believe 65cm and 68cm bands will fit to my needs with the original pathos 7mm spear.
What do you think ?
Yan966 The 14mm bands I used here I got from Spearamerica so they are very good. As for the Bleutec 14.5mm bands, if they are the small ID bands then most likely they are the new small ID formulation which is very good. Give them a call and ask if they are the new Primeline small ID bands. You don't need the 14.5mm bands on the Pathos 120 because the Pathos 120 has a lot of band stretch. The 14.5mm bands from say Sigalsub are actually 14.6mm and will have much more recoil and maybe no gain in power.
majdq8 Thanks mate, I sent them an email right now, I'll update with an answer. If I find a cheaper [shipping] way of buying those 14mm primeline from the US i'll order it.
Also, I see that you tied "quick replacement loops" on your bands, I believe that you did it similarly to this way: www.medfish.com/ezine/?p=157
Am I right?
I have a local store where I can buy this model of Dyneema 1.5mm/2mm [ i.imgur.com/sMABomJ.png ], do you think it is good enough? or should I find anything better?
thanks!
Yan966 Yes I use 1.9mm dyneema or spectra loops. I looked at the link, there really is no need for a bead and the knot is enough. After I make the knots I dip them in plasti dip or electric liquid tape ... I dip to just over where my constrictor knot will be (this prevent water siphoning into the bands when you go deep). I don't use soap and water, I use either aquarium silicone or contact cement ... this gives me lubrication to push the knot in and also become a nice flexible waterproof seal when it dries. One day I will make a video of how I tie bands.
As for bands with small ID, the old Bleutec 14.5mm bands are terrible and have no power. But I think they have seen the videos and most likely will now switch to the new smaller ID band material from Primeline. Again, best is to call and check.
majdq8 Thanks for the quick answer - I am looking forward to see your video ;-)
It is interesting, nothing happens to the plastidip while you stretch the band?
I'll let you know what they said about the BlueTec rubber.
You put the plasti dip on the wishbone loop to cover the knot and above where you will put your constrictor knot. You then let the plasti dip dry before installing it. The plasti dip will not go in the bands it is just to keep water getting siphoned in from the wishbones to inside the band cavity.
Love the video, very informative. Whats the band length when you were shooting the Sigalsub 155cm x 7.5mm @ 5 meters? still at 70cm and 72cm?
+Kapono Nihipali Yes same bands were used throughout the video. 360% cut means you take the distance from band hole to shark fin multiply by 2 and divide by 3.6. So for 125cm band stretch it would be (125 x 2)/3.6 ... which is around 70cm. The percentage can of course change a little as band material can have different diameters with different batches. Sigalsub seems to have very accurate diameters though as the Sigalsub Extreme 14.5mm are actually around 14.6mm while the Primeline 14mm are actually 13.7mm and can vary by as much as .5mm between different batches of the same diameter.
Thank you for your nice Videos!
Why do u think the Spear go left? maybe because of 18mm band? 2x18mm bands is not to much for 120cm gun?
+schak123 Yes that is possible ... maybe the extra mass of the 18mm bands push the gun muzzle a little and that causes a shift in shaft on exit. Note that because of that shift, the shaft will not fly properly and will lose velocity. So even if you aim right to compensate, you will have less velocity and less penetration on target. Power comes from properly controlling shaft flight and making sure that you don't lose velocity due to oscillating shaft.
+majdq8 thank you!
do u have experience with Salvimar V Pro? I just ordered one in 125cm. It's my first long speargun.
Unfortunately I don't. But give 2 x 14mm bands @ 360% a try. I think results will be very good. 125cm of band stretch can easily get a 7mm or 7.5mm to very fast velocities. Check my Abellan 120 video as it has about 122cm of band stretch and might give you a good starting point.
+majdq8 cool! thank you very much for your tips!
No problem!