Man thank u for this Video bro, I 1000% agree about cuts on phase, too much latency for this tablist too been cuttin over 32yrs and I cant un learn on point cuts, Serato rec is fine but phase or rane twelves just take the Soul out of dope scratchers Cuts! Blessup djs🙌😊🔥DjSpherical NZ - also Dont get used to it Just jam on Serato Vinyl or Real Sample rec for cutts Please Djs! Even my S11 feels like it added more latency in comparison to my Rane72 or Rane 62.. 62 felt better than all of em!!
This has to be the most detailed explanation on PHASE I seen on TH-cam yet! I don’t scratch as much but I really love mixing and blending songs. Like you I’m finding it more difficult to do that using Phase because of bpm fluctuation. I read a few people that was having. The same problem and wondering if you can get to the bottom of it with your genius? I would load a song and it will never play at the bpm it was analyzed in and while playing or mixing a song in the bpm fluctuate again making it more work for you to make the adjustments to blend two songs that’s the same bpm. I’m using technics 1200’s on a side note I don’t have this problem when using timecodes vinyl and cartridges/ needles.
I think the issue of bpm inconsistency is probably to some extent unavoidable with phase because it is based on a gyroscope (it does not measure the absolute position of the platter). In the context of scratching, this issue should lead to sticker drift. To test that, I just performed a quite heavy scratch session for about 20min. i saw very little sticker drift, maybe 15 degrees. Can you open up a song, go to e.g. a bass drum within that song, and then move the record back and forth (on that bass drum) for about 5min to confirm that the pointing direction of the phase remote does not drift with time?
@@dimosscratch2797 yes I have to try this when I get home from work. Really love the depth of your video. You should do more videos!! Your scratching is awesome as well!
Great test. Wouldn't a Rane Twelve MK2 be a solution for you? Phase introduces 5ms because: "Proprietary radio protocol: 2.4 GHZ". With a HID controller without radio protocol you could get down to 12ms latency.
I never managed to get my hands on a Rane Twelve for testing, but I think your 12ms estimate is spot on. Nevertheless, standard DVS is 15ms, so I think 12ms will still be very noticeable and as a consequence would require retraining.
hey i have recieved rhe new djm s11 today... i feel thats something is wrong. when tru to mix some songs with phase serato and djm s11. i am constantly do adjustments to get the beat mix in good way... is there some adjustment that i need to do ? the same setting with my older mcx denon and phase and serato works smooth and fine for beat mixing.
Did you change the radio channel (pressing A + B about one second or more with the remotes in the receiver)? Did you calibrate the remotes in the Phase Manager? (open Phase Manager -> setup button above -> calibration -> follow the instructions) I know it was good before the S11, but it perhaps lost the calibration for some reason. If what I said doesn't work, I would write to the Phase support.
To messure true latency from HID Phase you need to sniff the usb communication. If you do it against DVS mode it will have more latency than regular timecode due there is an extra D/A conversion from digital encoder into synthetised audio for later do the opposite in the software. The conclusion if your other measurements are right is “Serato implementation is so-so and/or Phase rFi stage is adding too much latency”. 17ms is to much, usually DAW work under 10ms and that’s ok for a piano key triggering but for die-hard scratching it isn’t. In fact depending on how fast the scratching is… only analog battleweapon will work. Did you send this video to Phase?
I am happy to see that you also share the opinion that 15ms (or 10ms) latency is easily noticeable when scratching at a somewhat serious level. I did not send this to the developers of Phase. I would assume that they are well aware of the latency that is caused by all the components. I thought of sniffing the USB port but comparing that signal to the vinyl control tone is challenging given that audio input comes in buffers and thus will have an additional delay. Personally I believe that the D/A conversion on the Phase device probably causes very little delay, possibly even less than the HID USB protocol itself (1ms-2ms).
@@nassimlassel8072 i would use phase in hid mode with serato. this gives a latency of 17ms which is roughly the same as normal DVS (15ms). if you want substantially less, there is no way around good old vinyl.
@@nassimlassel8072 that should still work. your serato scratch box (not sure what that exactly is) should unlock serato. once the phase receiver is connect via usb you should simply be able to select "wireless" in serato (make sure to update serato).
I'm struggling with the latency and fast chirps too. This was a great video.
Very good and in depth video, Not enough like this on TH-cam that I have seen
Man thank u for this Video bro, I 1000% agree about cuts on phase, too much latency for this tablist too been cuttin over 32yrs and I cant un learn on point cuts, Serato rec is fine but phase or rane twelves just take the Soul out of dope scratchers Cuts! Blessup djs🙌😊🔥DjSpherical NZ - also Dont get used to it Just jam on Serato Vinyl or Real Sample rec for cutts Please Djs! Even my S11 feels like it added more latency in comparison to my Rane72 or Rane 62.. 62 felt better than all of em!!
This video is super! I hope you can keep doing this videos!
Super interesting and confirms what i feel when i scratch with Serato instead of real vinyl.
Very interesting, thanks. I wonder how the new Pioneer hybrid turntable with direct digital control would work. I guess it's like a Rane 12.
Thank you so much for making this video, I really appreciate it.
Very good vid, this saves me alot of trial and error, thanks!!
This has to be the most detailed explanation on PHASE I seen on TH-cam yet! I don’t scratch as much but I really love mixing and blending songs. Like you I’m finding it more difficult to do that using Phase because of bpm fluctuation. I read a few people that was having. The same problem and wondering if you can get to the bottom of it with your genius? I would load a song and it will never play at the bpm it was analyzed in and while playing or mixing a song in the bpm fluctuate again making it more work for you to make the adjustments to blend two songs that’s the same bpm. I’m using technics 1200’s on a side note I don’t have this problem when using timecodes vinyl and cartridges/ needles.
I think the issue of bpm inconsistency is probably to some extent unavoidable with phase because it is based on a gyroscope (it does not measure the absolute position of the platter). In the context of scratching, this issue should lead to sticker drift. To test that, I just performed a quite heavy scratch session for about 20min. i saw very little sticker drift, maybe 15 degrees. Can you open up a song, go to e.g. a bass drum within that song, and then move the record back and forth (on that bass drum) for about 5min to confirm that the pointing direction of the phase remote does not drift with time?
@@dimosscratch2797 yes I have to try this when I get home from work. Really love the depth of your video. You should do more videos!! Your scratching is awesome as well!
Great test. Wouldn't a Rane Twelve MK2 be a solution for you? Phase introduces 5ms because: "Proprietary radio protocol: 2.4 GHZ". With a HID controller without radio protocol you could get down to 12ms latency.
I never managed to get my hands on a Rane Twelve for testing, but I think your 12ms estimate is spot on. Nevertheless, standard DVS is 15ms, so I think 12ms will still be very noticeable and as a consequence would require retraining.
hey i have recieved rhe new djm s11 today... i feel thats something is wrong. when tru to mix some songs with phase serato and djm s11. i am constantly do adjustments to get the beat mix in good way... is there some adjustment that i need to do ? the same setting with my older mcx denon and phase and serato works smooth and fine for beat mixing.
Did you figure it out? Just left a comment and seen yours.
Did you change the radio channel (pressing A + B about one second or more with the remotes in the receiver)? Did you calibrate the remotes in the Phase Manager? (open Phase Manager -> setup button above -> calibration -> follow the instructions) I know it was good before the S11, but it perhaps lost the calibration for some reason.
If what I said doesn't work, I would write to the Phase support.
To messure true latency from HID Phase you need to sniff the usb communication. If you do it against DVS mode it will have more latency than regular timecode due there is an extra D/A conversion from digital encoder into synthetised audio for later do the opposite in the software.
The conclusion if your other measurements are right is “Serato implementation is so-so and/or Phase rFi stage is adding too much latency”.
17ms is to much, usually DAW work under 10ms and that’s ok for a piano key triggering but for die-hard scratching it isn’t. In fact depending on how fast the scratching is… only analog battleweapon will work.
Did you send this video to Phase?
I am happy to see that you also share the opinion that 15ms (or 10ms) latency is easily noticeable when scratching at a somewhat serious level. I did not send this to the developers of Phase. I would assume that they are well aware of the latency that is caused by all the components. I thought of sniffing the USB port but comparing that signal to the vinyl control tone is challenging given that audio input comes in buffers and thus will have an additional delay. Personally I believe that the D/A conversion on the Phase device probably causes very little delay, possibly even less than the HID USB protocol itself (1ms-2ms).
I will never use dvs for scratch, only mixing makes sense for me! Been using a rane 61 and 70, MacBook from 2015 and 2023.. it’s all the same
I use phase with analog mixer thrue a Serato scratch box how can I reduce the latance ?
I am pretty sure that there is no way to reduce the latency in your setup (original phase DVS RCA mode) to below 22ms (see 4:49)
@@dimosscratch2797 do u advise me to back to dvs mode vinyl ?? Instead of phase ?
@@nassimlassel8072 i would use phase in hid mode with serato. this gives a latency of 17ms which is roughly the same as normal DVS (15ms). if you want substantially less, there is no way around good old vinyl.
@@dimosscratch2797 ok but not for me cause I have a analog mixer
@@nassimlassel8072 that should still work. your serato scratch box (not sure what that exactly is) should unlock serato. once the phase receiver is connect via usb you should simply be able to select "wireless" in serato (make sure to update serato).
Interesting, but there are turntablists which get on just fine with phase.