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I am happy to see that you also share the opinion that 15ms (or 10ms) latency is easily noticeable when scratching at a somewhat serious level. I did not send this to the developers of Phase. I would assume that they are well aware of the latency that is caused by all the components. I thought of sniffing the USB port but comparing that signal to the vinyl control tone is challenging given that audio input comes in buffers and thus will have an additional delay. Personally I believe that the D/A conversion on the Phase device probably causes very little delay, possibly even less than the HID USB protocol itself (1ms-2ms).

I never managed to get my hands on a Rane Twelve for testing, but I think your 12ms estimate is spot on. Nevertheless, standard DVS is 15ms, so I think 12ms will still be very noticeable and as a consequence would require retraining.

Thanks for your feedback. I assume you mean 0:23-0:25, correct? sorry for that imperfection. The rest though should be fine (I hope), the strong pitch variations are due to the tazer technique.

Just check his channel, literally video uploaded before this one

I am pretty sure that there is no way to reduce the latency in your setup (original phase DVS RCA mode) to below 22ms (see 4:49)

@@dimosscratch2797 do u advise me to back to dvs mode vinyl ?? Instead of phase ?

@@nassimlassel8072 i would use phase in hid mode with serato. this gives a latency of 17ms which is roughly the same as normal DVS (15ms). if you want substantially less, there is no way around good old vinyl.

@@dimosscratch2797 ok but not for me cause I have a analog mixer

@@nassimlassel8072 that should still work. your serato scratch box (not sure what that exactly is) should unlock serato. once the phase receiver is connect via usb you should simply be able to select "wireless" in serato (make sure to update serato).

By "internal mix mode" I assume you are referring to a setup where the position of the crossfader is transmitted to Serato by USB and the actual audio mix is performed in the computer. I think you are absolutely right, this would be way better because it would lead to the same delay for both hands. I tried to see if there is way to do that with the DJM-S9 but I don't think it is possible (and even if possible, the soft cut issue you mention would be a show stopper). Actually I didn't even know that there were mixers out there that operate in the "internal mix mode", thank you for the list. I really would like to measure the latency of the Rane Twelve. To do so, one would have to either add a tonearm or create a mechanical link (swivel arm) to a second turntable that carries a tonearm. If one day I will manage to borrow one, I will certainly do the test.

@@dimosscratch2797 Your assumption about the internal mix mode is correct, and I'm afraid the S9 is not conceived to work in internal mode. Perhaps you could do it with Traktor 3, playing with audio routing (master output via the AUX, for example) and mapping the mixer controls (because Traktor allows any audio interface for DVS, not the case of Serato). I've seen Jesse Dean created a tonearm for the Rane Twelve somewhere. I'll be around in case you do it! 🤟 Cheers and thanks for your videos!

I think the issue of bpm inconsistency is probably to some extent unavoidable with phase because it is based on a gyroscope (it does not measure the absolute position of the platter). In the context of scratching, this issue should lead to sticker drift. To test that, I just performed a quite heavy scratch session for about 20min. i saw very little sticker drift, maybe 15 degrees. Can you open up a song, go to e.g. a bass drum within that song, and then move the record back and forth (on that bass drum) for about 5min to confirm that the pointing direction of the phase remote does not drift with time?

@@dimosscratch2797 yes I have to try this when I get home from work. Really love the depth of your video. You should do more videos!! Your scratching is awesome as well!

Did you figure it out? Just left a comment and seen yours.

Did you change the radio channel (pressing A + B about one second or more with the remotes in the receiver)? Did you calibrate the remotes in the Phase Manager? (open Phase Manager -> setup button above -> calibration -> follow the instructions) I know it was good before the S11, but it perhaps lost the calibration for some reason. If what I said doesn't work, I would write to the Phase support.

I know that Traktor on Windows 7 has the same latency. A friend of mine (Traktor user) noticed that and told me about it. That was the reason why I decided to perform those tests in the first place. I think by now it is pretty much settled that there is no way to achieve lower latencies with a DVS based on USB (DJM S9 mixer has no thunderbolt). Concerning Linux, that is a nice idea but there are no native drivers for the DJM S9. I find it hard to believe that running WINE would not introduce substantial additional latency. Personally, the only setup that I would be interested in testing would be PHASE DJ with HID support or RANE TWELVE. If everything works as planned I will be able to do a PHASE DJ test it in 1-2 months.

@@dimosscratch2797 did you try asio drivers on windows?

@@seed_92 As far as i understand, windows drivers are ASIO-like. Otherwise the latency would be way higher than 15ms.

@@dimosscratch2797 did my answer not show up? I have 15ms or something with wasapi drivers. 1ms with asio. But i didnt measure the real latency like you did.

@@seed_92 Yes, same is true for my macbook pro. It says 1ms but the truth is 15ms. I expect you would get a very similar answer if you would perform the measurement as described in the video.

I only tried Serato. But I know that Traktor is pretty much the same. A friend of mine (Traktor user) noticed the latency and told me about it. That was the reason why I decided to perform those tests in the first place.

Cool, you are the first one to mention this! I use R everyday at work, so for me this was the most efficient way to analyze the data from the recordings.

I will start performing new tests in 2-3 weeks, as soon as I get my hands on a 2019 MacBook Pro. I planned to only test Serato but now that you mention it, I could include rekordbox given that I have a DJM S9.

@@dimosscratch2797 Awesome, thank you so much. I have an S9 also + Serato DJ. But I've been using it with a PC laptop. The slight delay is a bit annoying to me, especially trying to do fast chirps. I have roughly the same experience as you.

@@DJFeelsGoodman I just noticed that, in order to do a rekordbox test, I would need to buy their control vinyl (50$). On top of that it seems that rekordbox dvs (beyond trail version) is not even free (99$) for DJM S9 owners, even though both products are from pioneer. Therefore I unfortunately have to pass on testing rekordbox. Sorry for having made that promise in the first place.

@@dimosscratch2797 that is ok i understand. Maybe i will try to do some testing like you have done. Ill let you know!

@@DJFeelsGoodman That would be great! I got the 2019 MacBook Pro today and performed latency measurements (see video description for results).

You are welcome :)

I finally got my hands on a 2019 MacBook Pro (i5, 13 inch) and managed to perform Serato DJ Pro latency measurements. Contrary to what might expect, I got very similar results as with the old hardware (see video description for details).

This should not me an issue because any delay caused by the vestax mixer would be applied to both of its line outputs, the one that is being recorded directly as well as the one that goes into the pioneer mixer (see schematic 0:45).

@@dimosscratch2797 Are you recording straight into serato? Or into a external recording device?

I am recording into an external recording device. I am using an RME multiface that is connected to a separate pc. That allows me to record the four tracks simultaneously (see 1:12 for a small illustration)

@@dimosscratch2797 ok! I know alot of turntablest that have no problem with latency. The human mind cannot detect up to 5milisec of latency. Anyways I liked your experiment. Keep rocking mate✌

I finally got my hands on a 2019 MacBook Pro (i5, 13 inch) and managed to perform Serato DJ Pro latency measurements. Contrary to what might expect, I got very similar results as with the old hardware (see video description for details).

Yes me too!