Your math is a little off for California. I don't live there, but I have friends who do who have shared some details on their electricity costs ... 1) Most homeowners charging at home are on time-of-use electric plans which significantly discount the electric rate when charging their vehicles 2) California has the highest adoption of solar electric panels on home rooftops - almost 45%. For these homeowners, their true cost of electricity is significantly lower than the standard daytime rate. 3) While you adjusted the cost for 100 miles to the CA electricity rates, you did not adjust the 100 mile gasoline cost to the CA cost of gas, which is often $1/gallon higher than the US average. So you over stated the cost per 100 miles for the average electricity cost and under-stated the 100 mile cost for gasoline purchased in CA.
i got a 2024 rav4 prime XSE from my 2004 4Runner (300K miles). I've had the rav4 for a little over a month. I've gone a little over 1100 miles now, and have used about a tank and a half of gas despite making 2 trips from san diego to la and back. its worked out pretty nicely.
Thanks for your video. My wife and I purchased our new 2022 RAV 4 Prime model SE with the sunroof package back in March 2022 at MSRP and not a penny more. We received the Federal Tax credit, $7,500 in full and also the State of Oregon Electric Vehicle Rebate check of $2,500. Combined $10,000 off the MSRP placed the price in line or maybe even a little lower than a comparable RAV 4 Hybrid so it was a no brainer for us to make the purchase. Electric rates in NW Oregon on the coast are currently at .125/ per KWH with all cost included, calculated by total bill divided by KWH used. Calculated this week. It used to run about .11 / KWH last year. Now with early summer we have been getting 45+ miles of all electric range and 45+ MPG just on regular gas with a depleted battery. My last fillup in pure Hybrid Mode, miles calculated when the vehicle switches from electric to the gas engine, was 49.7 MPG calculated by miles driven by gallons pumped. Pretty close to what our old 2010 prius would be getting. Last week we drove well over 200 miles and never used a drop of gas living here on the N/W Coast of Oregon. Another plus for the Prime is that going down a long mountain grade you battery is large enough to keep filling up with electricity by regen where a hybrid would fill up and after that all that gravity would be wasted for regen.
The decision to go for a PHEV Rav4 Prime or Prius Prime, instead of the non-PHEV versions, really comes down to the cost of gasoline and the cost of residential electricity where you live. In my specific case: I live in a city served by a not-for-profit Municipal Utility District, which provides me with home electric rates of 10¢/kw-hr between October 1 and April 30, and 12¢/kw-hr in the summer months; this is the special EV charging rate and applies from midnight to 06:00. There are also several free L2 chargers around town, at City Hall, at an Amazon Hub 7 miles from my house, at some Libraries and Movie Theaters, and at a big shopping mall. Gasoline is $4.50/gallon currently. In my Prius Prime, over the 37,000 miles I've owned it, I've calculated that I've run the car for about 12,000 miles on externally supplied electricity, costing about 3¢/mile from my home EVSE, although since I use free chargers as often as possible, it's actually less than that. The rest of the miles driven were on gasoline, costing about 9¢/mile. So there is a clear advantage to owning a PHEV in my city, at least as long as you are using electric charging for at least 40% of your driving. For someone who rarely takes long road trips, and can maybe run 70% of the time on electric, the savings will pay for the extra cost of the PHEV version within the first 100,000 miles. Now lets turn it around, and consider the case of a person who lives somewhere with cheap gasoline, say $2.75/gallon (Oklahoma City, New Orleans), but maybe 30¢/kw-hr for electricity. Or, they live in an apartment with no way to charge at home and are thus dependent on for-profit public chargers like EV-Go and Electrify America, that charge 48¢/kw-hr. Or, they live in northern Minnesoto or Winnipeg, where winters are brutally cold and last 6 months. A PHEV would offer no benefit at all under those circumstances, and you would be far better off with the non-PHEV version of the Rav4 Hybrid. I know that I live in a bubble here in California: crazy-expensive gasoline, cheap electricity, and a State Government that's hell-bent on forcing people out of fossil-fueled vehicles into EV's as quickly as possible. But the charging infrastructure is no where ready for a massive shift to pure EV's, and battery technology is still limiting passenger-car EV's to about 250 miles range, so a PHEV is a compromise for the next few years, while Governments and car manufacturers work on solving those issues.
As other commentators have implied, people who own solar panels look at the RAV4 Prime (and plug-in hybrids in general) differently. Your video assumed that the main reason for choosing to buy either a Prime or Hybrid is the dollars and cents costs of owning and driving comparing electricity costs/100 miles with gasoline costs/100 miles. That is important and one of the reasons we bought a Prime, but we have a different way of looking at the electricity costs. We own a RAV4 Prime and solar panels and our solar panels generate enough power to run our house and enough excess power to charge our RAV4 Prime most every day. So, if we just do limited (
Thanks so much for sharing. We also have solar panels. We don't typically have excess energy and we put any excess during the day back into the grid but we also typically only use EV mode for our day to day driving. The other point, is with the current EV lease loophole and being able to get almost 6K off a RAV4 Prime, that furthers the argument of why you would get a prime over a hybrid. Not to mention the better performance and driving characteristics.
Another factor to think about, how long is it going to take for you to save 8k in gas? Avg miles per year about 14,000 40 mpg avg for hybrid version 14000/40 = 350gal National Avg gas price ~3.40 : Cali ~4.60 350*3.40 = 1190 - about 6.7 years 350*4.60 = 1610 - about 5 years With this type of car i'd think most would keep it longer than these time periods. BUT you have to exclusively use electric only for that duration, other wise the time it takes to break even in gas saving could take much longer.
I love my new 2023 RAV4 Prime: even without the tax incentive! It's such a pleasure to drive! Time will tell as far as how much it is costing me in electricity. But each charge gets me closer to the 50 mile mark per charge. For my commutes around town this is more than adequate. And my "Optimus" (my name for my prime) has power when I need it, as well as quiet around town. I love everything about it. Thanks for the informative videos. You and your wife helped me a lot to make this decision!
Thanks for watching and commenting. Nice name for your prime !! We love our's too. Wanted to give a little love to the hybrid though. It's a great car.. but definitely not as good as the prime. My next video will compare the prive to the hybrid.. and the significant benefits.
My experience with a 2019 Prius Prime is that when I first bought it, EV range on a full charge was about 30 miles. This was on city streets at 35mph. Freeway driving was about 35% less. Over the first 10,000 miles, the range gradually crept up to 39 miles in summer, 34 miles in winter. Then it began to decline, and currently, with 37,000 miles on the odometer, the best summer range is 32 miles. So the battery cells are definitely starting to degrade. Another sign is that the power consumption per mile is slowly increasing. I run Hybrid Assistant, which tracks lots of ECM data on Toyota Hybrids in real time, and it records this data and can display it on a PC computer if you download it from your phone or tablet to a desktop or laptop PC. There is a specific 7 mile trip I make from a public charging station to my house several times a month. Last year, the car would make the whole distance on just about 1.000 kw-hours. The last 3 or 4 trips, this has increased to 1.100 kw-hr. My speed and driving habits have not changed, and the tire pressures are all at 35psi right where they should be, so I know it's not low tire pressure that's causing the increase in battery consumption. The Prius Prime has a very small battery compared to the Rav4 Prime, only about 6 kw-hr "useable" compared to about 16 for the Rav4 Prime, so my Prius is showing the battery degradation earlier than what you might expect in a Rav4 Prime or BZ4X.
At last, I got 2023 RAV4 PRIME XSE PREMIUM yesterday. It was worth the waited time in 2 years with updated info screen and a full digital instrument cluster.
In 2021 it made sense to buy the Rav 4 Prime. I sold back our 2019 Rav 4 Hybrid xLE for $33,900 or $6,500 more than I paid in 2019. Purchased a 2021 Prime for MSRP in 2021 $41,000. Subtract $7,500 tax credit and my before the out door price was $33,500. One more point, our Prime in hybrid mode actually nets the same or a little better mpg than our 2019 hybrid Rav 4 did because the battery is bigger so it will accept more regenerative breaking and downhill energy recovery than the much smaller battery in the hybrid only model of the Rav 4.
Your math is off for California: I can have solar and a battery, and put energy back onto the grid each day under NEM 2.0. As my solar loan payment is a fixed cost, the electricity needed to charge the Prime is basically free. That’s about a $2,000 savings on gasoline each year, so I think I’ll forget the Hybrid and stick with the Prime.
CA is crazy with their electricity prices but something tells me the gas prices are also MORE than the $3.50 per gallon average. According to AAA it's $4.86 per gallon right now which puts it at $12.15 for that 100 miles of driving and would still save money. With the loss of the tax credit and your on a budget the Hybrid is fine, but for me the extra power and option to drive in EV mode for shorter trips well outweighs the 2 MPG that the Hybrid can get over the Prime. When I bought mine in 2021 it was a no brainer with the $7500 Federal and $1000 State tax credit, best decision I've ever made with purchasing a car as it dropped my operating costs significantly compared to a 25 MPG SUV I was driving before.
My sister lives in southern CA and is paying $6-$7 per gallon of gas. We’re paying around $450 a gallon here in WA state. Our electricity is the 2nd cheapest in America. Our custom built house is 2220 sq ft with an attached 800 sq ft 1 bedroom, 1 bath apartment which is where my 85 year old dad lives. Our Daytime temperatures during the winter hovers around 20-25 degrees F. The Highest electric bill we’ve ever paid was $140 and we’re billed every 2 months. Anyhow, Enjoy your day and stay healthy !
When I took the leap into PHEV territory with my 2019 Prius Prime, it was to replace a 2014 Subaru Outback. That car not only got lousy fuel economy (25 mpg), it burned oil like there was no tomorrow, about a quart every 1200 miles, and this was when it only had 10K miles on it! I later found out that almost all Boxer engined cars have this problem, especially the newer ones that have the low-tension piston rings and that run 0W-20 motor oil. My Prius Prime never needs oil to be added between 5,000 mile changes, and neither did the 2007 Yaris I owned a few years ago. I am disappointed that the Federal Tax Credit for Toyota went away, but the Rav4 Prime has no competition, except possibly the Mitsubishi Outlander. But the issue with that car, is that there are only about 300 dealerships in the whole US, compared to 1,270 for Toyota. And with Mitsubishi now being married to Renault and Nissan, who can say what their future will look like? I'm amazed that Dodge/Jeep/Chrysler has survived this long, especially after changing hands three times (Mercedes Benz, then Fiat, now Stellantis). The Outlander is a nice PHEV CSUV, but the company doesn't have anywhere near the stability of Toyota.
I have a 2022 Rav4 Prime XSE i fill up gas once a month city driving not necessarily need to charge most of the time is regenerating. I don’t charge it to full no need 85% best for a Rav4 and what it is it’s already good enough .
I use to own a 11 Rav 4WD Limited with the 269hp 3.5 V6. Last year I decided to sell it and replace it with another Rav AWD Limited Hybrid. I looked at the 23 Rav and the fit and finish was subpar. The comfort was horrible. Road and engine noise was pronounced. It wasn’t near the quality of my 11 Rav. I LOVED the Venza Limited but was unable to get anything except for gloomy, drab, depressing, outdated, bland 34 year old Gray or Black interior colors. The interior colors made me feel claustrophobic. Those colors were a throwback from 1990. I was disappointed to say the least because we’ve been driving Toyota’s for 40+ years. I then looked at the Mazda CX50 and was going to buy it, but again I couldn’t get it with Classy, Sophisticated Tan or Brown interior unless I bought a turbo. I didn’t want a turbo because they simply don’t last as long as a naturally aspirated engine. I then looked at a Subaru Forester Touring. I fell in love with the car and its Beautiful Saddle Brown Leather interior. I bought my Forester. After selling my Rav and adding the Forester my insurance premiums DROPPED by over $300 a year. I asked my agent why my premiums dropped and she told me that the Forester and the Outback were the safest vehicles in the road and the accident avoidance was top notch. Furthermore Subaru’s are less likely to be stolen. We live in a very mountainous area of north central WA state and get 5-7 feet of snow every winter. We live 5 miles from town and 20 miles from a city and live on a private road that we have to plow and maintain ourselves. Every winter I had to put studded tires on my Rav. I drove the entire winter with the factory tires that came on my Forester. The traction is Superior over any other 4WD or AWD vehicle we’ve ever owned. My 85 year old dad lives with us and is wheelchair bound. My Forester is the first vehicle that we’ve ever owned that I don’t have to fold down the rear seats to accommodate his wheelchair. Whenever he rides with my wife and I, my wife gets into the back seat, which are heated, along with the steering wheel. The outward visibility is Amazing. I cannot say enough Great things about my Forester. After owning my Forester for a few months I decided to surprise my wife by buying her a new car for her 50th birthday. I chose an Outback for her. It has the Ivory interior, which she Loves. She had been driving her Toyota for 18 years and even though it ran perfect, it was a good time to buy my wife something she deserved. I found one in Cinnamon Brown Pearl, ( she loves dark brown cars). I’m retired but she still has a few more years before SSI. So now you know why I decided Not to buy another Toyota, especially the Rav. I was so Unimpressed with that Rav AWD hybrid Limited.
Oh man.. we really love the subaru's. The outward visibility as you mentioned is so amazing. We almost bought an Ascent.. but I was just a little concerned about the turbo and cvt combination, especially when towing. Also the ascents supposedly didn't get that great of gas mileage when towing. Anyhow.. congrats on that forester and outback !! We have two golden retrievers.. and my wife really wanted a subaru.. We really love our RAV4 Prime though !!
@@GoldenK9Campers Until the 23 year model the Ascent was very problematic with transmission failures and electrical issues. Consumer Reports says to avoid the 19-22 Ascent. We tend to have Larger dogs as well. Our current dog is a 110# Chocolate Lab. He has plenty of room in the far back of our Subie’s, with the rear seats upright. And yes he can still stand up in the back. In a couple of years we’ll sell my wife’s Outback, (she likes my Forester more because it “sits up higher” than her Outback). We’ll also be selling our 11 Ford Ranger XLT super cab 4X4 (currently only 36K miles) and will be able to pay cash for the new Tacoma Limited double cab 4WD long bed, Hybrid. Since I retired (at age 42) I don’t drive as much anymore. She’ll start using my Forester as her vehicle and I’ll drive the Tacoma.
@@GoldenK9Campers Great choice ! The Limited Hybrid has the Maxforce performance. Install a K&N intake as soon as you can, along with the TRD exhaust system. These 2 modifications will allow your engine to breathe easier causing more hp, torque and mpg. We have a 12 year old Ranger XLT super cab 4WD with the 4.0L V6. We went from 19mpg to 23mpg on the highway with the cruise set on 75mph after adding the K&N intake and a 3” FlowMaster exhaust.
I'm from Poland and landed here. Would you consider buying used 2021 prime over 2024 hybrid? So the new media system is in 2024 of course and some otger tiny things
If you have solar panels and Tesla batteries like I do, then I don't pay anything for my charging. I recently drove over 500+ miles to attend a conference and still had 1/4 tank left. Had a all gas Rav4 for a while. it would only go 325 miles on a tank of gas.
Yep.. we have solar panels as well. Most of our driving (cept long trips) are EV. But we tow.. so EV range would likely go down by at least 40% if we had a true EV, which is what makes the prime so great.
Does the Rav4 Prime offer V2L (vehicle to load)? That would be so useful during an extended power outage. Also can you charge the battery from empty to full by just driving on ICE, without using a charger?
The prime XSE Premium has a 1500W outlet. It can power things like a microwave.. or in our case our A-Liner trailer without the car's engine running (just using the batteries). And yes, it can charge the batteries of the car off of the ICE engine in charge mode up to about 80% of full capacity.
We bought a 2024 Rav4 hybrid. We would have liked to buy a Prime, but they were unobtanium in the Chicago area. As it was we paid over sticker for our car. Unfortunately, we didn't have the time to wait or search the whole country to find a Rav4. We were lucky to find one at all. Someone cancelled an order so we bought theirs. We do love the car, however I've never paid over sticker and will never again! Being price goughed and having no option stinks and Toyota needs to increase supply and reign in these dealers! We love our 4Runner but won't get a new one (may go to another brand) until this issue is solved!!
Yeah, paying over sticker sucks. I got lucky with my Prime. With the economy in the tank, and dealers getting more inventory, I don't think you'll have to worry about paying above MSRP for a while. I saw a think on the new where the average car on the road was 12 years old (or something like that). New cars are just too expensive and too complicated.
Wow... I thought that stealerships charging over MSRP was a thing of the past now. Yeah, if you have to buy a car NOW, it can be a problem if you're not in a CARB state, I guess (even still), but we "ordered" the exact color and trim that we wanted and got it 5 months later, at MSRP. How many Chicagoland dealers did you research? Sounds like you're in the wrong part of the country. At just one of many Toyota dealerships near my home here in the Boston area, they have 12 new RAV4 Primes on the lot and all being sold for MSRP (not over) -- just checked. Lots of people in non-CARB states have flown to CARB states, bought a RAV4 Prime for MSRP, and driven home.
I live in IL, but bought my 2021 R4P in central NY state for the sticker price. My sales person later told me I was the last out-of-state buyer the dealership owner allowed to go through. I was lucky to have a relative who lived in town.
@@carlkettler1629 Dealers can do what they want. If I was a dealer I certainly would prefer to service in-state residents especially since they may likely be a customer well after the initial sale. That being said, the dealership I purchased from in Connecticut is still selling to out of state buyers. Glad you we're able to get your's when you did. We still luck our prime..
No One seems to consider a Persons tolerance for Noise........I am 80 and need the peace of electric way over the noise of vibrating pistons................Paul
Only one reason in my book to not buy a RAV4 Prime over the "mild hybrid", non-plugin "Hybrid" RAV4: you don't have the capability to charge it daily. Otherwise the Prime is orders-of-magnitude better, ignoring purchase price. Yeah, we got our 2021 RAV4 Prime SE for under $40k new and got $9k back in federal tax credits ($7500) and state rebate ($1500). But I'd still pay the extra money without the tax credit now because the Prime is so very superior to the "mild Hybrid" in almost every way. If you can plug in, your "fuel" costs should be way cheaper with the Prime than the "Hybrid"; in local driving, we went from filling up on gas about once a week with our old Highlander to filling up once every 2-3 months with our Prime (driving mileage unchanged), with our total "fuel" costs now about 1/3 to 1/2 what we were paying before. Plugging in every night is so much nicer than visiting gas stations so often (driving out of our way to a gas station, standing in horrible weather while pumping gas and stepping in spilt gasoline, etc.), and we're contributing so much less to the most corrupt industry that the world has ever seen (the oil/gas industry), as icing on the cake. And if you like to drive, driving in all-electric is much more fun in the Prime, as it has good torque from stop and you can drive with your pedal to the floor all the way to 86 mph without the ICE coming on; the weak ICE in all RAV4s are underwhelming, and driving with the ICE on is the worst part of driving the Prime, frankly; with the "Hybrid", you're basically stuck with that crappy ICE coming on and going off all the time, ad nauseum. And there's much more standard features in the base Prime than in the base "Hybrid", unless things have changed; we got the bare minimum and still have heated front seats, blind-spot-assist lighting in the mirrors, ACC, power driver seat, power rear hatch, CarPlay -- basically all that we need.
Wow.. great reply. So detailed. You hit the nail on the head. The worst thing about the prime is when in Hybrid mode and that ICE engine turns on. Ugh !!! I'll have a video out comparing the prime to the hybrid focusing on the drietrane differences. Also, we have solar, so it's basically free to drive in EV mode for us. Love it !!
Toyota has made a major upgrade to the Rav4 Prime SE for 2023: the 6.6 kw charger is now standard on all Rav4 Primes, even the bare-bones SE! You used to have to buy an XSE with the $5,000 Premium option package to get this charger, raising the MSRP to almost $52,000. Now, even the humble $43,000 base SE comes with the 6.6 charger. Way to go, Toyota! Another benefit to the Rav4 Prime and Prius Prime over the non-PHEV Hybrid versions: they have Lithium instead of NIMH traction batteries, and the batteries are much larger, and thus capable of recapturing and storing a lot more power on long downhill grades. There are many highways in the Western states that cross mountain ranges, where 6% grades of up to 7 miles in length can be found (I-5 over Siskiyou Summit, I-80 over Donner Summit, US-50 over Echo Summit, I-5 over Grapevine Summit, etc). On these long downgrades, if you begin the descent with the traction battery low, or empty, the regen braking system can easily hold the car at whatever speed you set, and recapture maybe 15 miles of range on a 7 mile downhill, all without you ever having to touch the brake pedal. The regular Hybrids can't do this, because they don't have enough battery capacity to hold the energy coming off the MG2 stator when it's in regen braking mode on a long downgrade. My Prius Prime has been the best car I've ever owned, and I fully expect my Rav4 Prime to surpass it by another order of magnitude when I take deliver a week from tomorrow.
We luv R prime. Definitely think it's a much superior car to the hybrid. Our Fed Tax Rebate made it a no brainer. Didn't know about other rebates available now.
You're comparing California electricity cost to national average gas prices and saying it cost more to drive? Doesn't California have the highest gas prices. Wholly illogical. Please think through what youre sharing. Elementary teachers are shaking their heads.
I was just providing an example. Gas prices are higher in certain States, as well as overall costs for electricity. So you should take that into consideration. Thanks for watching and sharing.
Your math is a little off for California. I don't live there, but I have friends who do who have shared some details on their electricity costs ... 1) Most homeowners charging at home are on time-of-use electric plans which significantly discount the electric rate when charging their vehicles 2) California has the highest adoption of solar electric panels on home rooftops - almost 45%. For these homeowners, their true cost of electricity is significantly lower than the standard daytime rate. 3) While you adjusted the cost for 100 miles to the CA electricity rates, you did not adjust the 100 mile gasoline cost to the CA cost of gas, which is often $1/gallon higher than the US average. So you over stated the cost per 100 miles for the average electricity cost and under-stated the 100 mile cost for gasoline purchased in CA.
Thanks for sharing. We have solar and we love it (in las vegas). Have almost no electric bill (haven't payed anything in 2 years).
Can I ask how, no solor provider would let me make a plan above 75% of our electricity usage. :c @@GoldenK9Campers
i got a 2024 rav4 prime XSE from my 2004 4Runner (300K miles). I've had the rav4 for a little over a month. I've gone a little over 1100 miles now, and have used about a tank and a half of gas despite making 2 trips from san diego to la and back. its worked out pretty nicely.
Thanks for sharing. Simply a great automobile.
Thanks for your video. My wife and I purchased our new 2022 RAV 4 Prime model SE with the sunroof package back in March 2022 at MSRP and not a penny more. We received the Federal Tax credit, $7,500 in full and also the State of Oregon Electric Vehicle Rebate check of $2,500. Combined $10,000 off the MSRP placed the price in line or maybe even a little lower than a comparable RAV 4 Hybrid so it was a no brainer for us to make the purchase. Electric rates in NW Oregon on the coast are currently at .125/ per KWH with all cost included, calculated by total bill divided by KWH used. Calculated this week. It used to run about .11 / KWH last year.
Now with early summer we have been getting 45+ miles of all electric range and 45+ MPG just on regular gas with a depleted battery. My last fillup in pure Hybrid Mode, miles calculated when the vehicle switches from electric to the gas engine, was 49.7 MPG calculated by miles driven by gallons pumped. Pretty close to what our old 2010 prius would be getting.
Last week we drove well over 200 miles and never used a drop of gas living here on the N/W Coast of Oregon. Another plus for the Prime is that going down a long mountain grade you battery is large enough to keep filling up with electricity by regen where a hybrid would fill up and after that all that gravity would be wasted for regen.
Great points!!
So even hybrid you still get Federal tax credit ? Im in CA. Just wonder
The decision to go for a PHEV Rav4 Prime or Prius Prime, instead of the non-PHEV versions, really comes down to the cost of gasoline and the cost of residential electricity where you live. In my specific case: I live in a city served by a not-for-profit Municipal Utility District, which provides me with home electric rates of 10¢/kw-hr between October 1 and April 30, and 12¢/kw-hr in the summer months; this is the special EV charging rate and applies from midnight to 06:00. There are also several free L2 chargers around town, at City Hall, at an Amazon Hub 7 miles from my house, at some Libraries and Movie Theaters, and at a big shopping mall. Gasoline is $4.50/gallon currently. In my Prius Prime, over the 37,000 miles I've owned it, I've calculated that I've run the car for about 12,000 miles on externally supplied electricity, costing about 3¢/mile from my home EVSE, although since I use free chargers as often as possible, it's actually less than that. The rest of the miles driven were on gasoline, costing about 9¢/mile. So there is a clear advantage to owning a PHEV in my city, at least as long as you are using electric charging for at least 40% of your driving. For someone who rarely takes long road trips, and can maybe run 70% of the time on electric, the savings will pay for the extra cost of the PHEV version within the first 100,000 miles.
Now lets turn it around, and consider the case of a person who lives somewhere with cheap gasoline, say $2.75/gallon (Oklahoma City, New Orleans), but maybe 30¢/kw-hr for electricity. Or, they live in an apartment with no way to charge at home and are thus dependent on for-profit public chargers like EV-Go and Electrify America, that charge 48¢/kw-hr. Or, they live in northern Minnesoto or Winnipeg, where winters are brutally cold and last 6 months. A PHEV would offer no benefit at all under those circumstances, and you would be far better off with the non-PHEV version of the Rav4 Hybrid. I know that I live in a bubble here in California: crazy-expensive gasoline, cheap electricity, and a State Government that's hell-bent on forcing people out of fossil-fueled vehicles into EV's as quickly as possible. But the charging infrastructure is no where ready for a massive shift to pure EV's, and battery technology is still limiting passenger-car EV's to about 250 miles range, so a PHEV is a compromise for the next few years, while Governments and car manufacturers work on solving those issues.
Thanks for sharing. Such great detailed information. Really appreciate your knowledgeable comment!!
As other commentators have implied, people who own solar panels look at the RAV4 Prime (and plug-in hybrids in general) differently. Your video assumed that the main reason for choosing to buy either a Prime or Hybrid is the dollars and cents costs of owning and driving comparing electricity costs/100 miles with gasoline costs/100 miles. That is important and one of the reasons we bought a Prime, but we have a different way of looking at the electricity costs. We own a RAV4 Prime and solar panels and our solar panels generate enough power to run our house and enough excess power to charge our RAV4 Prime most every day. So, if we just do limited (
Thanks so much for sharing. We also have solar panels. We don't typically have excess energy and we put any excess during the day back into the grid but we also typically only use EV mode for our day to day driving. The other point, is with the current EV lease loophole and being able to get almost 6K off a RAV4 Prime, that furthers the argument of why you would get a prime over a hybrid. Not to mention the better performance and driving characteristics.
Another factor to think about, how long is it going to take for you to save 8k in gas?
Avg miles per year about 14,000
40 mpg avg for hybrid version
14000/40 = 350gal
National Avg gas price ~3.40 : Cali ~4.60
350*3.40 = 1190 - about 6.7 years
350*4.60 = 1610 - about 5 years
With this type of car i'd think most would keep it longer than these time periods.
BUT you have to exclusively use electric only for that duration, other wise the time it takes to break even in gas saving could take much longer.
@@mitchelll4148 Very true. Thanks for sharing.
I love my new 2023 RAV4 Prime: even without the tax incentive! It's such a pleasure to drive! Time will tell as far as how much it is costing me in electricity. But each charge gets me closer to the 50 mile mark per charge. For my commutes around town this is more than adequate. And my "Optimus" (my name for my prime) has power when I need it, as well as quiet around town. I love everything about it. Thanks for the informative videos. You and your wife helped me a lot to make this decision!
Thanks for watching and commenting. Nice name for your prime !! We love our's too. Wanted to give a little love to the hybrid though. It's a great car.. but definitely not as good as the prime. My next video will compare the prive to the hybrid.. and the significant benefits.
My experience with a 2019 Prius Prime is that when I first bought it, EV range on a full charge was about 30 miles. This was on city streets at 35mph. Freeway driving was about 35% less. Over the first 10,000 miles, the range gradually crept up to 39 miles in summer, 34 miles in winter. Then it began to decline, and currently, with 37,000 miles on the odometer, the best summer range is 32 miles. So the battery cells are definitely starting to degrade. Another sign is that the power consumption per mile is slowly increasing. I run Hybrid Assistant, which tracks lots of ECM data on Toyota Hybrids in real time, and it records this data and can display it on a PC computer if you download it from your phone or tablet to a desktop or laptop PC. There is a specific 7 mile trip I make from a public charging station to my house several times a month. Last year, the car would make the whole distance on just about 1.000 kw-hours. The last 3 or 4 trips, this has increased to 1.100 kw-hr. My speed and driving habits have not changed, and the tire pressures are all at 35psi right where they should be, so I know it's not low tire pressure that's causing the increase in battery consumption. The Prius Prime has a very small battery compared to the Rav4 Prime, only about 6 kw-hr "useable" compared to about 16 for the Rav4 Prime, so my Prius is showing the battery degradation earlier than what you might expect in a Rav4 Prime or BZ4X.
At last, I got 2023 RAV4 PRIME XSE PREMIUM yesterday. It was worth the waited time in 2 years with updated info screen and a full digital instrument cluster.
Congrats. We simply love our Prime. Worth the wait !!
Hybrid comes a winner!
Thanks for watching.
In 2021 it made sense to buy the Rav 4 Prime. I sold back our 2019 Rav 4 Hybrid xLE for $33,900 or $6,500 more than I paid in 2019.
Purchased a 2021 Prime for MSRP in 2021 $41,000.
Subtract $7,500 tax credit and my before the out door price was $33,500.
One more point, our Prime in hybrid mode actually nets the same or a little better mpg than our 2019 hybrid Rav 4 did because the battery is bigger so it will accept more regenerative breaking and downhill energy recovery than the much smaller battery in the hybrid only model of the Rav 4.
Thanks for sharing !! I love muy RAV4 Prime.
Your math is off for California: I can have solar and a battery, and put energy back onto the grid each day under NEM 2.0. As my solar loan payment is a fixed cost, the electricity needed to charge the Prime is basically free. That’s about a $2,000 savings on gasoline each year, so I think I’ll forget the Hybrid and stick with the Prime.
Yep, Solar certainly changes the equation. We have Solar too. Love it !!
CA is crazy with their electricity prices but something tells me the gas prices are also MORE than the $3.50 per gallon average. According to AAA it's $4.86 per gallon right now which puts it at $12.15 for that 100 miles of driving and would still save money. With the loss of the tax credit and your on a budget the Hybrid is fine, but for me the extra power and option to drive in EV mode for shorter trips well outweighs the 2 MPG that the Hybrid can get over the Prime. When I bought mine in 2021 it was a no brainer with the $7500 Federal and $1000 State tax credit, best decision I've ever made with purchasing a car as it dropped my operating costs significantly compared to a 25 MPG SUV I was driving before.
I hear that.. Here's my real feelings on the prime !! - th-cam.com/video/q0lOfv72AVo/w-d-xo.html
My sister lives in southern CA and is paying $6-$7 per gallon of gas.
We’re paying around $450 a gallon here in WA state.
Our electricity is the 2nd cheapest in America.
Our custom built house is 2220 sq ft with an attached 800 sq ft 1 bedroom, 1 bath apartment which is where my 85 year old dad lives.
Our Daytime temperatures during the winter hovers around 20-25 degrees F.
The Highest electric bill we’ve ever paid was $140 and we’re billed every 2 months.
Anyhow,
Enjoy your day and stay healthy !
When I took the leap into PHEV territory with my 2019 Prius Prime, it was to replace a 2014 Subaru Outback. That car not only got lousy fuel economy (25 mpg), it burned oil like there was no tomorrow, about a quart every 1200 miles, and this was when it only had 10K miles on it! I later found out that almost all Boxer engined cars have this problem, especially the newer ones that have the low-tension piston rings and that run 0W-20 motor oil. My Prius Prime never needs oil to be added between 5,000 mile changes, and neither did the 2007 Yaris I owned a few years ago.
I am disappointed that the Federal Tax Credit for Toyota went away, but the Rav4 Prime has no competition, except possibly the Mitsubishi Outlander. But the issue with that car, is that there are only about 300 dealerships in the whole US, compared to 1,270 for Toyota. And with Mitsubishi now being married to Renault and Nissan, who can say what their future will look like? I'm amazed that Dodge/Jeep/Chrysler has survived this long, especially after changing hands three times (Mercedes Benz, then Fiat, now Stellantis). The Outlander is a nice PHEV CSUV, but the company doesn't have anywhere near the stability of Toyota.
I have a 2022 Rav4 Prime XSE i fill up gas once a month city driving not necessarily need to charge most of the time is regenerating. I don’t charge it to full no need 85% best for a Rav4 and what it is it’s already good enough .
We love our Prime.
I use to own a 11 Rav 4WD Limited with the 269hp 3.5 V6.
Last year I decided to sell it and replace it with another Rav AWD Limited Hybrid. I looked at the 23 Rav and the fit and finish was subpar. The comfort was horrible. Road and engine noise was pronounced. It wasn’t near the quality of my 11 Rav.
I LOVED the Venza Limited but was unable to get anything except for gloomy, drab, depressing, outdated, bland 34 year old Gray or Black interior colors. The interior colors made me feel claustrophobic. Those colors were a throwback from 1990.
I was disappointed to say the least because we’ve been driving Toyota’s for 40+ years.
I then looked at the Mazda CX50 and was going to buy it, but again I couldn’t get it with Classy, Sophisticated Tan or Brown interior unless I bought a turbo.
I didn’t want a turbo because they simply don’t last as long as a naturally aspirated engine.
I then looked at a Subaru Forester Touring. I fell in love with the car and its Beautiful Saddle Brown Leather interior.
I bought my Forester.
After selling my Rav and adding the Forester my insurance premiums DROPPED by over $300 a year. I asked my agent why my premiums dropped and she told me that the Forester and the Outback were the safest vehicles in the road and the accident avoidance was top notch. Furthermore Subaru’s are less likely to be stolen.
We live in a very mountainous area of north central WA state and get 5-7 feet of snow every winter. We live 5 miles from town and 20 miles from a city and live on a private road that we have to plow and maintain ourselves.
Every winter I had to put studded tires on my Rav.
I drove the entire winter with the factory tires that came on my Forester.
The traction is Superior over any other 4WD or AWD vehicle we’ve ever owned.
My 85 year old dad lives with us and is wheelchair bound. My Forester is the first vehicle that we’ve ever owned that I don’t have to fold down the rear seats to accommodate his wheelchair.
Whenever he rides with my wife and I, my wife gets into the back seat, which are heated, along with the steering wheel.
The outward visibility is Amazing.
I cannot say enough Great things about my Forester.
After owning my Forester for a few months I decided to surprise my wife by buying her a new car for her 50th birthday. I chose an Outback for her. It has the Ivory interior, which she Loves.
She had been driving her Toyota for 18 years and even though it ran perfect, it was a good time to buy my wife something she deserved. I found one in Cinnamon Brown Pearl, ( she loves dark brown cars).
I’m retired but she still has a few more years before SSI.
So now you know why I decided Not to buy another Toyota, especially the Rav. I was so Unimpressed with that Rav AWD hybrid Limited.
Oh man.. we really love the subaru's. The outward visibility as you mentioned is so amazing. We almost bought an Ascent.. but I was just a little concerned about the turbo and cvt combination, especially when towing. Also the ascents supposedly didn't get that great of gas mileage when towing. Anyhow.. congrats on that forester and outback !! We have two golden retrievers.. and my wife really wanted a subaru.. We really love our RAV4 Prime though !!
@@GoldenK9Campers Until the 23 year model the Ascent was very problematic with transmission failures and electrical issues. Consumer Reports says to avoid the 19-22 Ascent.
We tend to have Larger dogs as well. Our current dog is a 110# Chocolate Lab. He has plenty of room in the far back of our Subie’s, with the rear seats upright. And yes he can still stand up in the back.
In a couple of years we’ll sell my wife’s Outback, (she likes my Forester more because it “sits up higher” than her Outback). We’ll also be selling our 11 Ford Ranger XLT super cab 4X4 (currently only 36K miles) and will be able to pay cash for the new Tacoma Limited double cab 4WD long bed, Hybrid.
Since I retired (at age 42) I don’t drive as much anymore.
She’ll start using my Forester as her vehicle and I’ll drive the Tacoma.
@@Doc1855 Oh.. we're getting a 24 Tacoma as well (with the Max Hybrid drivetrane). It will be our tow vehicle.
@@GoldenK9Campers Great choice !
The Limited Hybrid has the Maxforce performance.
Install a K&N intake as soon as you can, along with the TRD exhaust system. These 2 modifications will allow your engine to breathe easier causing more hp, torque and mpg.
We have a 12 year old Ranger XLT super cab 4WD with the 4.0L V6. We went from 19mpg to 23mpg on the highway with the cruise set on 75mph after adding the K&N intake and a 3” FlowMaster exhaust.
@@Doc1855 amazing.
I'm from Poland and landed here. Would you consider buying used 2021 prime over 2024 hybrid? So the new media system is in 2024 of course and some otger tiny things
If it was me.. i'd buy the prime. So much good stuff.
If you have solar panels and Tesla batteries like I do, then I don't pay anything for my charging. I recently drove over 500+ miles to attend a conference and still had 1/4 tank left. Had a all gas Rav4 for a while. it would only go 325 miles on a tank of gas.
Yep.. we have solar panels as well. Most of our driving (cept long trips) are EV. But we tow.. so EV range would likely go down by at least 40% if we had a true EV, which is what makes the prime so great.
Does the Rav4 Prime offer V2L (vehicle to load)? That would be so useful during an extended power outage. Also can you charge the battery from empty to full by just driving on ICE, without using a charger?
The prime XSE Premium has a 1500W outlet. It can power things like a microwave.. or in our case our A-Liner trailer without the car's engine running (just using the batteries). And yes, it can charge the batteries of the car off of the ICE engine in charge mode up to about 80% of full capacity.
Does prime have power front seats and heated front seats?
Yes.. Both the SE and XSE does.
We bought a 2024 Rav4 hybrid. We would have liked to buy a Prime, but they were unobtanium in the Chicago area. As it was we paid over sticker for our car. Unfortunately, we didn't have the time to wait or search the whole country to find a Rav4. We were lucky to find one at all. Someone cancelled an order so we bought theirs. We do love the car, however I've never paid over sticker and will never again! Being price goughed and having no option stinks and Toyota needs to increase supply and reign in these dealers! We love our 4Runner but won't get a new one (may go to another brand) until this issue is solved!!
Yeah, paying over sticker sucks. I got lucky with my Prime. With the economy in the tank, and dealers getting more inventory, I don't think you'll have to worry about paying above MSRP for a while. I saw a think on the new where the average car on the road was 12 years old (or something like that). New cars are just too expensive and too complicated.
Wow... I thought that stealerships charging over MSRP was a thing of the past now. Yeah, if you have to buy a car NOW, it can be a problem if you're not in a CARB state, I guess (even still), but we "ordered" the exact color and trim that we wanted and got it 5 months later, at MSRP. How many Chicagoland dealers did you research? Sounds like you're in the wrong part of the country. At just one of many Toyota dealerships near my home here in the Boston area, they have 12 new RAV4 Primes on the lot and all being sold for MSRP (not over) -- just checked. Lots of people in non-CARB states have flown to CARB states, bought a RAV4 Prime for MSRP, and driven home.
@@cbatiau2528 Yep. Me too. Drove it home across the country. it was a fantastic road trip !!
I live in IL, but bought my 2021 R4P in central NY state for the sticker price. My sales person later told me I was the last out-of-state buyer the dealership owner allowed to go through. I was lucky to have a relative who lived in town.
@@carlkettler1629 Dealers can do what they want. If I was a dealer I certainly would prefer to service in-state residents especially since they may likely be a customer well after the initial sale. That being said, the dealership I purchased from in Connecticut is still selling to out of state buyers. Glad you we're able to get your's when you did. We still luck our prime..
No One seems to consider a Persons tolerance for Noise........I am 80 and need the peace of electric way over the noise of vibrating pistons................Paul
Totally agree. Love the silence of EV driving.
Is it pretty quiet on the highway?
For sure.. really nice and quiet.@@lz6364
Funny. I also live in Las Vegas
Howdy Neighbor !!
Only one reason in my book to not buy a RAV4 Prime over the "mild hybrid", non-plugin "Hybrid" RAV4: you don't have the capability to charge it daily. Otherwise the Prime is orders-of-magnitude better, ignoring purchase price. Yeah, we got our 2021 RAV4 Prime SE for under $40k new and got $9k back in federal tax credits ($7500) and state rebate ($1500). But I'd still pay the extra money without the tax credit now because the Prime is so very superior to the "mild Hybrid" in almost every way. If you can plug in, your "fuel" costs should be way cheaper with the Prime than the "Hybrid"; in local driving, we went from filling up on gas about once a week with our old Highlander to filling up once every 2-3 months with our Prime (driving mileage unchanged), with our total "fuel" costs now about 1/3 to 1/2 what we were paying before. Plugging in every night is so much nicer than visiting gas stations so often (driving out of our way to a gas station, standing in horrible weather while pumping gas and stepping in spilt gasoline, etc.), and we're contributing so much less to the most corrupt industry that the world has ever seen (the oil/gas industry), as icing on the cake.
And if you like to drive, driving in all-electric is much more fun in the Prime, as it has good torque from stop and you can drive with your pedal to the floor all the way to 86 mph without the ICE coming on; the weak ICE in all RAV4s are underwhelming, and driving with the ICE on is the worst part of driving the Prime, frankly; with the "Hybrid", you're basically stuck with that crappy ICE coming on and going off all the time, ad nauseum. And there's much more standard features in the base Prime than in the base "Hybrid", unless things have changed; we got the bare minimum and still have heated front seats, blind-spot-assist lighting in the mirrors, ACC, power driver seat, power rear hatch, CarPlay -- basically all that we need.
Wow.. great reply. So detailed. You hit the nail on the head. The worst thing about the prime is when in Hybrid mode and that ICE engine turns on. Ugh !!! I'll have a video out comparing the prime to the hybrid focusing on the drietrane differences. Also, we have solar, so it's basically free to drive in EV mode for us. Love it !!
Toyota has made a major upgrade to the Rav4 Prime SE for 2023: the 6.6 kw charger is now standard on all Rav4 Primes, even the bare-bones SE! You used to have to buy an XSE with the $5,000 Premium option package to get this charger, raising the MSRP to almost $52,000. Now, even the humble $43,000 base SE comes with the 6.6 charger. Way to go, Toyota! Another benefit to the Rav4 Prime and Prius Prime over the non-PHEV Hybrid versions: they have Lithium instead of NIMH traction batteries, and the batteries are much larger, and thus capable of recapturing and storing a lot more power on long downhill grades. There are many highways in the Western states that cross mountain ranges, where 6% grades of up to 7 miles in length can be found (I-5 over Siskiyou Summit, I-80 over Donner Summit, US-50 over Echo Summit, I-5 over Grapevine Summit, etc). On these long downgrades, if you begin the descent with the traction battery low, or empty, the regen braking system can easily hold the car at whatever speed you set, and recapture maybe 15 miles of range on a 7 mile downhill, all without you ever having to touch the brake pedal. The regular Hybrids can't do this, because they don't have enough battery capacity to hold the energy coming off the MG2 stator when it's in regen braking mode on a long downgrade. My Prius Prime has been the best car I've ever owned, and I fully expect my Rav4 Prime to surpass it by another order of magnitude when I take deliver a week from tomorrow.
You can easily find a prime in Maryland
CA are most losing money driving ev, because you forgot to figure that CA gas is some of the most expense and we still save money in EV.
Yeah.. gas prices are crazy as well as cost for electricity. I think the key is having solar in place.
50 EV MILES is all the Prime has over the Hybrid and YET it's at least $10k MORE.
NOT worth it.
You can get up to 5,500 off using the EV Lease Loophole which makes it only about $4,500 more. Definitely worth it.
i am getting 91 km range on my prime in the summer.
That's awesome. We're getting at least 50. Love summer !!
lmao after rebates from Toyota the RAV4 Prime SE can cost less than a RAV4 Hybrid
We luv R prime. Definitely think it's a much superior car to the hybrid. Our Fed Tax Rebate made it a no brainer. Didn't know about other rebates available now.
It’s $14 in gas to drive that hundred miles in California
Pricey gas !!
Got mine rav4 prime se for 38k
Wow!! Great job !!
You're comparing California electricity cost to national average gas prices and saying it cost more to drive? Doesn't California have the highest gas prices. Wholly illogical. Please think through what youre sharing. Elementary teachers are shaking their heads.
I was just providing an example. Gas prices are higher in certain States, as well as overall costs for electricity. So you should take that into consideration. Thanks for watching and sharing.