When I was talking about the resale value of cars bought today in 10 years from now, there are 2 points you in the comments have pointed out... #1 - my estimate for the Prius (despite having the new design) WAS too high and it's probably more like 15k as opposed to 25k. And #2 ICE cars might not have as great resale in 10 years either since they will likely be less in demand. Who knows! I will also add I just checked in with my friend who has a 2018 Tesla and he says while the build quality isn't great compared to his 2018 Toyota 4Runner (doors closing tight, rattling while driving etc) he has said that the Tesla still runs great in 2024 with 100K+ mileage on it. That's reassuring.
The strange thing about the chemical soup you get in Lithium based chemistries is they age even if you don't drive the car - think trying to charge up a battery that's just been sitting in a drawer for 10 years. There are so many examples on the Tesla forums of the batteries lasting over 200k miles, but also ones failing in under 40k miles just from the age of the vehicle and likely other factors like how often it was parked in the cold, or in direct sunlight, how often it was supercharged, how often it was discharged below 10%, or above 80%, or more basic things like the battery housing developing a leak over time. More worrying there are many examples of batteries showing minimal degradation but going from 50% charge to 0 in the space of 1 mile, or shutting off on the road when you try to accelerate. You may have experienced something similar on a 3-5 year old phone battery where you try to make a call and the phone reboots because the cells cannot provide the required voltage anymore, despite the battery health showing 85%.
@@DigiDriftZone Yeah that is interesting to consider for sure. In the past I definitely felt more examples of that... but I feel like my Samsung S21 is still going strong. Not sure I'd want to base buying a $50,000+ vehicle off of that experience though!!
@@TheSAHDLife Garages are adapting and are getting the experience to work on EVs. A 15k battery replacement will be cheaper in 3-5 years since they will be replacing dead cells/packs instead of the full kit. Go watch electrified garage videos !
Funny things is, they talk about oil changes as being an annoying things, but don't consider about hour long charging time as annoying when you are planning for a long trip
Yeah I hear you... but for some of us, we will do 100% of our charging at home. That would sure be annoying though, especially as charging stations get busier and busier.
It really depends on the charging archetype of the EV. They don’t all charge at the same speed. My husband has the fastest archetype charging infrastructure in his car and fully charges his Ioniq 5 at a charging station (fastest charger) in 15 min. The Teslas don’t charge as fast. If he’s not on a road trip he uses our regular level 1 charger at home and it takes 12 hours. He’s got enough range (about 330 miles) that he doesn’t drive enough during the work week to even need to charge it every day.
Thats because it’s not an hour to charge. Just got back from a roadtrip in an EV and 19% to 80% charge was under 25 minutes. From 47% - 80% was 14 minutes. It’s not an hour. It is longer than a tank of gas fill-up. But even during that 25 minute charge I was still waiting on my order at the local Wendys. So if you plan around them it’s not that big of a deal. Charges at home are slower and done overnight but supercharges are the ones you seem to be referring to and they are much, much faster.
@@Alopen-xb1rb exactly- it’s not even close to an hour, depending on the type of car. VW ID4 is still about 45 min I hear. Most people (especially with kids) while on long road trips need to stop every 2-3 hours anyway, even if you’re driving an ICE car. We were at a QT gas station in GA the other day and waited 20 min for some of their fresh pizza- if my husband had been charging he would have been done by then, plus then some.
We finally got our new 2024 Prime in March. Our third Prius. Very pleased with the first two (non Prime), and each averaged 4.4 L per 100Km year round. When we made the deal for the 2024, the dealer offered $10,000 for our 12 year old Model C, half of what we paid new. I don't think that in 12 years a dealer (or anyone else), will consider paying 1/2 the original cost of a Tesla considering the price to replace the Traction battery. The new Prime ? We have driven it 3,600+Km so far and bought just $45.00 (a half tank), only because we had to take a road trip. And, oh, it cost more than $20,000 less than the cheapest Tesla. I like these numbers.
That's awesome, thanks for sharing. Jeez we still go back and forth almost daily. For awhile there we got really excited about the fuel savings of a full EV but we would be able to charge our car every night at home and might be able to get almost those same savings with a PHEV plus all the advantages to NOT buying an EV (like resale / trade-in as you mention). I'm really glad to hear from an owner so thanks for chiming in. Is there anything you don't love about the car?
@@TheSAHDLife Very glad to hear it was useful to you. My biggest beef with the Prime is the absence of a spare tire. I know tire technology has advanced and flats are less common but, they do happen. We had our first two Priuses for 16 years and had just one flat. It was sidewall damage, so, without a spare we'd have been stuck. Our tires are quite low profile and our spring roads are always covered in "road sores". The "Fix the Flat Kit isn't capable of addressing a sidewall tear. That means a tow-truck. Where we live, "breaking down" often means having to wait a very long time for rescue if your not near a community (which describes a great deal of our province). You can buy a spare tire kit from Toyota for the Reg. hybrid that fits under the hatch floor (why the bloody thing does not come with the car is a mystery). However, the kit will not suit the Prime, too little room due to the bigger battery. We plan to source a set of rims and tires for winter use. We'll seek out inexpensive 17" rims and the closest tire size to the 195-50's that came with the car. At the moment, no manufacturer makes a winter tire in the oddball OEM size. This route offers the added benefit of giving us a spare (in both seasons). So, should we take a road trip we'll just throw a wheel in back. We both really like the car. And, neither of us has encountered the issues many other Posters complain about.
I chose having fun vs saving money simply because life is too short. I won't be able to bring the money saved to the other side. It's ok to die broke with a smile on my face in my last moments of my life. Awesome analysis of the subject ! Good job man !
Yeah you know I like that mindset too. It's very rare I regret buying the nicer item. We still haven't made up our mind. I'm really interested to see what the new Model Y's will look like, but jeez Musk makes it tough to invest in Tesla!
I got a 330e this year and I have zero regrets. Super fun to drive, my commute to and from work is fully electric and my gas bill has dropped 90%. Drove 6 hours this past weekend and hit 48mpg on highway gas only driving thanks to how efficient the B46 is. I went to Algonquin provincial park superchargers in the area are enough to make you nervous. Happy I got it over the model 3. Also, Canadians can relate well to this: finding a charger that isn’t a Tesla is still a nightmare, and half the time you do find them, they’re broken.
That's awesome! Sounds like you made the right choice. We just settled on a model 3 refresh and it's just great for us. We're just charging hip and 120 volt household plug in our garage and it's so cheap. It's working great for us and we love the features. I'd be a little scared to venture too far away from the major hubs here in BC though!
Great video brother. Like the way you put facts. My point on 10yr from now is, lot can be changed as solid state battery tech others can enable the batteries to be damn cheap. The 20k full EV swap can be 5k... how know. 😊
Thanks man! Do you think the newer Solid State batteries might be able to be placed in the older, let's say Tesla, batteries as replacements in the future? Is that what you're saying? Or would you wait to get a solid state in the first place so that they will be cheaper to replace in the future.
I do believe you missed a critical point. All 3 hybrid, plug in, and EV are affected by cold significantly. Not just EV's. My 2016 Prius went from 60 to 70 miles per gallon down to 30 to 40 miles per gallon in the winter. That was an a mild Washington winter. Now I live in significantly colder winter weather. Plugins are affected even more than EVs. My Outlander PHEV goes from between 40 and 75 mpg down to 25 to 35 in the winter. My model 3 RWD (not long range) still had 205mi range at 70mph in the winter. So if you compare all three, the EV is actually affected the least in the winter. There is also very little evidence to support EV resale value being lower than Hybrid or PHEV.
It depends on your driving pattern and the way you set up the interior heating. In my hybrid Corolla, i achieve some 4.4L/100km (54 mpg) in the summer and 5.2L/100km (45 mpg) in the winter. Most of the time i drive alone, so i set up the HVAC to driver only and turn on the heated seat and steering wheel. But yeah, a lot of time the engine kicks in only to produce heat, which is kinda wasteful.
Dont be logical. Life is short, have fun while you can !!! In 10years you wont thing about the 10k you lost but all the fun you had along the way ! Plus, tesla model 3 is the most safe car ever
Another option to consider for your American audience is leasing an EV. They have some pretty crazy lease deals in the US right now. There are multiple models you can lease for around the same monthly/annual rate you calculated for your other options So you can lease for 3 years, have fun driving and make your choice 3 years later when there will hopefully be better tech and less expensive EVs available.
Yeah that's a good idea. I think I might have to make a video talking about all the leasing options because it's not something I've truly ever dived into and done the math on. It'll be interesting to see the new Model Y's coming out too, maybe that'll be the catalyst for me hehe.
One aspect that is often overlooked for PHEV, is that if you use it in EV mode all the time, your engine and fuel are going to go bad and you'll have premature damage to those. It's difficult to find a place where PHEV would be the best choice. If you do a lot of long trips, a HEV is probably your best choice if you can't live with an extra 20 minutes of charging time (also electricity on fast chargers is not cheap). PHEVs will have bigger consumption because of the extra-weight and you wouldn't get as much benefit of a bigger battery. If you do very few long trips in a year, an EV is a good choice as you won't have those 20 minutes extra a lot of times in the year. A PHEV would probably suffer premature degradation of engine and battery (since the battery is smaller, you do more cycles, even-though it should still last quite long and will be replaced for cheaper). On paper, PHEV is a great idea and I was planning to buy the Prius PHEV. But I ended up with an EV instead after doing all my research because I would be using it in EV mode for 6 months straight so very bad for the ICE. And the EV is so much more fun to drive. Regarding tires, it depends on how you drive. I get the same millage between my EV and my ICE on a set of tires.
Interesting comment! I would have guessed they would have thought of that (gas remaining in the vehicle in some cases for months on end) but maybe they didn't. What EV did you end up getting? And yeah, I mean to be honest the range would never be an issue for us if we went straight EV. We both work from home and it would be a commuter 99% of the time. We could use our other vehicle for long trips though we don't fully trust it won't die on us again (Hyundai!)... but it does have a new engine in it.
Our Ford Kuga PHEV starts the gas engine every now and then to keep it working. It does make it use more gas than it should "need" to looking at our driving patterns.
13 year old PHEV, the only one that exists. 45-55 miles (80km) of ev range. put 35k miles (56k km) on it last year. since my partner and I are in healthcare, we are always driving a medium (40-70 miles) distance to a hospital which always have chargers... including road trips, we averaged 104 mpg (2.6l/100km) last year. i figure we saved around 2500-3000$ on gas here. our electric bill went up 7$/mo lol. I offset a good amount of that by adding solar panels to the roof which feed into the 12v system, which i replaced with a 4kwh battery i built for 230 bucks. i believe we did about 5-6k miles on the motor with just a couple dozen heat cycles (~15% of driving, all hwy). considering we only paid 6000 usd for the car... we are doing alright. and apparently with the phev craze going on right now, the resell value has gone up to 9k, probably the only category of car that is increasing in value right now. imo the prius prime is a joke with its battery size. the truith is, if you actually want to save money, youre not buying a new car, and there is only one cheap PHEV in the US, its the chevy volt. dont buy a 60k$ prius prime in the highest trim level "coz thats all thats available", and pretend youre saving money by capturing 25k of depreciation before you sell the car rofl. my car is free to drive in a few more months, and my insurance is 21$/month. the gen1 volts will go for 400-500k miles, think about it, you are only using the motor for long hwy driving at a steady rpm range, the engine is port injected (not direct so no carbon fouling), low compression ratio of 10:1 (direct injection cars run 15:1), the head of the motor is an iron block which doesnt expand and cause head gasket issues at 200k miles like hondas/anything with an aluminum head, there is not really a transmission, just one solid gear in a planetary gear system that is rarely used (gen 2's have a big belt thats basically a CVT to save money), the timing chain is barely doing any work except to keep the engine at a steady rpm, the breaks dont even wear out coz of regen breaking. most of the car is made from aluminum to save weight, weighs the same as a model Y despite having a motor, and the battery cooling system is the most overbuilt one ever mass produced, and the battery is inside the cab so it experiences less temp extremes or impact from a crash. the only other thing you worry about is super/fast charging ratio, which thankfully the car cant super charge so you dont have to worry about the battery being destroyed by an uber driver. there is no alinator or starter motor, even the air conditioner is electronic and runs at high efficiency 350v dc, one of the first ones. ironically toyota is paying chevy for their patents since the new primes copied most of the drive train.
Cool take, thanks for taking the time to share. Sounds like you've saved a pile of money, that's fantastic! So... let's say that car dies or gets destroyed, whatever... would you go and buy a Volt right now?
@@TheSAHDLife already did for my girlfirend. she was using mine so much, she decided she wanted one over her 2015 honda civic. we got another 2014 chevy volt around 8 months ago, i believe it was 7800 usd. same color, similar trim package. imo the leather seats are a lot more comfy (important coz we do lots of driving) and i would try to get a model with heated seats since it boosts the range significantly in the winter. thought it was funny that she got jealous of my older car and gave her newer car to her sister to buy an older model. guess i didnt answer your question. ya i think i would. i only want 1 car for myself but dont want any sacrafices. im one of those people who thinks the end of the world is comming so off grid/self reliance stuff is important to me. no one alive to remember the gas rationing during ww2. i think it was like 5 gallons per week. good luck getting to work or doing anything
Yeah I hear you. I wonder if Honda's or Toyotas of that year similar model go for more... But they cost more also. So many factors to consider. Did your car need lots of repairs over the 10 years?
Our family got a duel-fuel Kia Sportage SX (PHEV) just 7 months ago in March of 2024. Even though we live quite a distance for work (70 km), we are averaging about 80% of all kilometers being EV only, achieving over 93% over the last few weeks. Our fuel savings are more than $55 (Canadian) a every week as compared to the turbo-4 gas version. Also, I'm happy to report that the EV range (in the summer) on the highway @ 105 km/hr matches the manufacturers estimate of about 54 kms, however, if you choose to drive country roads between 70 and 90 km/hr, you'll see EV range of 65+ km like we do every week. Our max EV range was over 70 km on 1 charge BUT that was in perfect conditions and averaging about 70 km/hr. Did we consider the Rav 4 Prime plugin? Yes, but not for long given the 10k price premium, loud engine, and over lack of cabin refinement. Rav 4 prime has much more power (300+ vs the Sportage phev's 264) BUT I still find the 224 lb/ft of torque the pancake motor makes on our PHEV more than adequate in town and on the highway too! Sport mode is INCREDIBLE and has all the grunt you could want, easily outpacing our previous Acura RL 3.5 V6. There is simply no comparison on interiors and tech (kia vs. Toyota) as Kia is loaded with every creature comfort, not least of which is the HDA (highway drive assist) which is completely addicting. On well marked roads (even off- highway) I always have it engaged. Conclusion, I would agree that dual fuel vehicles like PHEVs are the right choice in this time where industries are transitioning as it gives our family the best of both worlds. Crazy savings weekly on gas, crazy quiet and smooth ev driving and 5.8 l/100kms on our recent 1300km 3 day road trip!! (We were able to charge up twice over night) Without charging, we still averaged 6.3 l/100km on the highway with cruise set to 65 mphr/ 106 km/hr. Setting cruise to 120 km/hr drops our hwy efficiency down to 7.8 l/100km (no thanks). If your goal is to save money, pollute less, and drive the future without constant range anxiety, PHEVs are my recommendation!
This is a great comment thank you for taking the time. It really surprises me when I see the fuel economy being so much different the faster that you go. Very eye-opening and it's neat to see some actual numbers and data.
Thanks for the comment! Really appreciate it. I love talking about this stuff! It's a tough decision but hopefully I gave people some things to consider. What would you buy right now if you could or had to?
@@TheSAHDLife I like the idea of charging at home for 50/60 miles range but also having an ICE back up, so a phev for me, if I was in the market. Do you like or watch Out of Spec Motors with Kyle? He’s an entertaining EV geek
Yeah that is a topic worth considering for sure. I think gas will be around for awhile but I know what you mean. We still aren't sure what we'd buy if we bought one right now. We've kind of gone full circle!
Not going to happen. ICE cars are going to be around for decade’s because there is not enough electricity available. The price of electricity for the average person is going to break the bank. EV cars will have to start paying road tax. If the road tax was taken off of gasoline EVs would never pay for them selves. Free money from rebates haha that’s your tax money. 90% of people will NOT be able to charge at home.
I personally dont care about getting new cars every so often, i want something that isn’t going to break down constantly and require a lot of maintenance, i dont care if my car is 10 years old or older, as long as it gets me where im going and looks pretty im good with an EV
@@TheSAHDLifeim loving the look on Tesla model 3 currently, pretty good range, super charging is super available around me as well as normal charging, I honestly would hold on to that car until it literally can’t be driven anymore
I own all 3 (2023 Toyota Highlander Hybrid, 2017 Chevy Volt PHEV, 2024 Cadillac Lyriq EV). I agree completely with your assessment of the pluses and minuses of all three. I absolutely love driving my Cadillac Lyriq, but it is not as great for long road trips and I am not expecting it to have great resale value. My Chevy Volt (a car ahead of its time) is truly the best of all worlds. It allows for long road trips, but also satisfying daily gas free driving. The Highlander Hybrid is our long road trip warrior with great comfort. They are all amazing vehicles! I am just praying that the EV cars last as long as possible, but I am prepared to throw them away when the batteries die.
Great comment! Thanks for sharing. And that's a fun little fleet of vehicles you have. What made you decide on the Lyriq? Is it pretty slick with nice power? We just picked up a Model 3 (releasing my video in the morning) as a commuter and it's been great. Like you I'm hoping it will last a LONG time and not lose power or anything soon :)
@@TheSAHDLifeThe Lyriq is a beautiful luxury AWD medium sized SUV that is probably the best value available for a fully electric vehicle. The Ultium Battery architecture is also impressive engineering. We were able to get our fully loaded Lyriq for about $61,000 after all rebates and incentives. I couldn’t resist. It’s a Cadillac with exhilarating pickup and it’s the quietest car on the market. We also have a dealership that can service it in our small city, that wasn’t the case for a Tesla.
One of the best videos I've seen. Very comprehensive explanation. Thank you! Couple of follow up questions: - How's the behaviour with cold weather? - Prime not having AWD is not ideal, what's your thoughts? - What do you think about Niro Plug in? Thank you!
Thanks! Glad you found the video. From my research EV's lose on average 10-25% range depending on how cold it is. I didn't see how cold it needs to be for these changes to take effect but I imagine it's sub-zero temperatures. I know they have heat-pumps but I didn't really go too deep into learning how they work on EV's. The Prime not having AWD is a big deal. That sucks! For where I live that is a reason I wouldn't consider it. If I was just buying this as a commuter it wouldn't be a big deal... but we both work from home and the next car we get will be our main family car so, I'd rather have something that feels safer/more capable. The Niro looks like a neat little car. I think it would probably be a fine buy, but it might just be hard to sell on the other side. I personally really enjoy Korean Styling, especially on their interiors when it comes to the other car manufacturers, however, resell for them is hot garbage. While we have loved our Hyundai, the engine DID die on us at 90,000kms even though we babied it. To be fair, Hyundai put in a new engine out of warranty but still... we lost an AMAZING weekend and had so much stress for awhile there.... I'm not sure I would buy a Hyundai or Kia... MAYBE a full electric but I'm not sure I trust how they machine their combustion motors. Hope that helps! You looking for a cheaper plug-in?
@@TheSAHDLife thank you! We are looking for a reliable and safe commute car for Calgary. Our main family car is an Outback which is perfect, so looking for a smaller for city use. I'm checking: Crosstrek Onyx Trim (have everything except for the fuel consumption), Prius (Hybrid and Plugin) and Niro (Hybrid and Plugin).
I took the NIRO for a test drive. Its felt nice to drive but with being at a similar price point to a Toyota Prius Prime, I'd be going with that. Mainly because KIA is known for having engine failure.
I've been doing some checking recently and on the Gen 4 Toyota Prius primes, so 2016 through 2022. It looks like it is about $14,000 to $15,000 to replace the high voltage battery in them. One of my local Toyota dealerships said that their price the wholesale price of the battery was $11,800 and they're probably going to add another $1,000 or so to the cost of that battery in getting it to me and then there's all the labor hours for taking the old battery out and putting the new battery in and reflashing the car's computer and ECU to play nicely with the new battery.
Yeah that's not cheap! I mean that shouldn't be necessary for what 10 to 15 years still based on how long the older ones have gone? That generation even though it doesn't have quite as much power they sure seem efficient. And I can't tell if I love or hate the design of the rear of that car lol
Thank you. This info has been really helpfull. I just leased the mercedes benz eqe 350 and bpought the GLB 250 gas. The sticker price for the eqe 2024 was $72,000.00 compared to the gas model which is close to $85,000.00. I got a $15,000.00 government rebate which brought the price down to a very attractive $57,000.00. This vehicle is very comfortable and the xtras are amazing. The range is 260 miles. I average about 500 miles a month. I charge it twice a month at 80%. If I have to go on long range trips, I use the GLB 250. It is amazing as well and my wife loves it. I will not be putting too many miles on the GLB, I will be using the electric more, since it is leased, the GLB will maintain a good resale value. In anther 3 years technology nwill be in the consumers favor. Thanks again.
Sounds like a nice fleet of vehicles you've got! What is it that draws you towards Mercedes? I briefly owned a German car in the past and, well since I inherited it from my dad who let it sit for awhile, oh gosh it was so expensive to fix/maintain. I imagine they are built well and have a very refined drive though. And good for you... those incentives are huge! The tech has been out for awhile I think you're crazy if you're not taking advantage of those incentives. We just got an EV yesterday (I'll talk about that in a video soon) and, honestly I don't even want to drive the gas car now lol. It's so fun. Thanks for watching and sharing! That's really interesting about the range/costs.
Thank you! I have been considering a phev for awhile now and you made it so easy to compare the annual costs, incentives and 10 year costs to consider the overall value. I'm a geek and loved the numbers! I will let you know what I decide. I had not considered a Toyota before and plan to test drive one now. Due to the consideration of the longevity future resale value/ Currently, I prefer luxury styles vs truck style so we will see how this compares to the others in this class.
Glad you found the video! It was a lot of fun really breaking it down... For us it's an easy choice if we e going to get two vehicles, but we can still get away with having one for our family so for that it's a bit of a trickier choice. What are your top considerations?
I think this is old thinking being improperly applied to new tech, specifically with the depreciation for EVs. Fundamentally, the plummeted resale value of electric cars recently has been because of technological innovation rather than the asset in question losing its functionality/deteriorating. Remember, 5-year depreciation figures by definition lag 5 years behind the current models. I think the technology has matured significantly in recent years, leaving much less maturation in the near-mid term future. Take the Apple's MacBooks. The resale price of an x64 MacBook air is ~30% original price but an M1 is ~70%, because there is relatively less maturation between M1 -> M3/4 than from x86 -> M1. I believe 2024+ Model 3 and 2021+ S/X will see significantly less "depreciation" than older models, so I think it's worth it. Or just buy a 2021-2023 Model 3 for like $28k US and call it a day!
I think you make a great point and I do agree with you. Unlike Apple however there is a lot more competition and marketing in the auto industry which makes what you mentioned easy to forget. Heck just watch any sporting game and see the amount of car ads that play. It's crazy! I think when it comes to Tesla specifically, because they were so far away from the competition experience wise... While guys like me have wanted to jump on board for years, I worried about rickety build quality as all my friends with 2018/2019 Tesla's said they rattle years later though they still run well. My cousin has a 2021 Model Y that she wants to sell and my wife and I wonder if we should consider hers or if it's worth the extra 15k for buying new. Tough call. I'll chew more on what you said 👊
I think picking up your cousin's Model Y would be a great idea! 1) You know that specific unit's build quality 2) You get a big discount on the price compared to a new one 3) You trust the previous owner and know they aren't hiding any big problems/repairs from you I don't own a car currently but the sheer thought of having to do (& pay for) the maintenance on one drives me insane, so personally I would LOVE the lack of it on an EV
@alejandrowilcox8198 those are all great points. It sure makes a big difference buying a used anything from a trusted source. Those 2021s still look pretty slick too! But yeah having a vehicle is a lot. We've managed to only have one vehicle for so long which is just been great but every now and then there's a time where we need two vehicles. It's just so much cost for not very often you know? Hard to justify.
I enjoyed your video. Of course everyone have to calculate what is right for them. After 5 days with no power after hurricane I would be only comfortable with an EV as a back up.
Thanks! Yeah that would feel sketchy for sure. We just did a week of daily driving running errands and still had 50% battery left on a standard range Tesla... It has made me feel a little better about power outages etc but still. I also say that because we do have a gas vehicle as well so not as worried.
I'm either buying a Toyota Prius Prime SE or a used 2023 Toyota BZ4X FWD. I can find a BZ4X FWD, under 10k KM, for $33,000.00 + HST CAD or a 2024 Prius Prime SE will cost me $38,500.00 + HST. Both drive really nice but I do want an SUV. I know the resale will be much better on the Prius but I've been eyeing an EV for sometime and driven cars for too long where I want something a little more comfortable to drive. I plan on driving my next vehicle til the wheels fall off basically so resale for me isn't as huge as a factor and by buying a EV used, already saving on the initial depreciation. I do feel like the Prius Prime will outlast the BZ4X but who knows?
That is a tough decision. I feel the pull on the more spacious SUV, however, is that the first year of the BZ4X? I know it's Toyota but I just, I'm not convinced their full EV's are that good yet. A friend of mine just got the new Mazda PHEV (first year) and it's been in the shop NINE times in the first few months. It's a nightmare. It could be different with Toyota.. I really haven't looked into that vehicle in particular... maybe it's a sick deal but if you want something that will last long, I think you know the answer there.
A few more things I left unmentioned, safety ,❤teslas are in far less accidents much safer if you do have one. Sentry mode, dog mode, never have a brake job, unless you play too hard. Hybrids are practical but the future is electric. Finally excellent well thought out post.
I bought a used five year old Chevy volt five years ago. Every penny I've spent on maintenance and repair on this car (which has been a lot) was because of the ICE motor. My fuel costs have gone from about one hundred fifty U.S. in gas to about thirty U.S. in electricity. I am saving every dime I can to be able to afford a good fully electric car. If the pricing for electric cars was equivalent to I.C.E. I would be satisfied fully electric car owner right now.
Bummer to hear about the annoying maintenance you've had with the vehicle but those fuel savings are no joke. Very interesting. What do you think you would get next if you could?
Yeah me too. We just bought an EV so, well I mean I hope I have no need to swap the battery, but if it eve needs to happen it doesn't cost as much as it does now!
I just purchased about 2 months ago after lots of reading and researching. I decided full EV as I will own the vehicle for a good chunk of time and I am grateful with my choice. My only regret is I didn’t buy 2 years ago.
My friend who i met during an internship, has a 2017 diesel pickup truck, and an aux tank in the bed, about 125-150 gal capacity. Every two months, ge comes to US, and fills up both his tanks, and that saves him quite a decent buck. Says, the tank has paid over twice its cost.
That's interesting. It would be weird driving around with all that fuel... Feels very Mad Max 😆 Sweet though. Probably not the cheapest setup though eh?
Hi SAHD, very good video. I would like to add some key points to this topic: 1. Batteries will become much cheaper in 10 years if you look at the price trend of EV batteries. 2. According to HLDI, Tesla is much safer than most hybrid cars. I personally value this a lot. I'm not sure if the hybrid you mentioned has AWD; if not, driving in any Canadian city other than Vancouver will be challenging in the winter. 3. Hybrid cars don't depreciate as quickly because their current supply doesn't meet demand (especially for Toyota). However, once the supply meets demand, they will depreciate faster since hybrid cars have higher maintenance costs than EVs and gas cars due to having both gas and electric engines and the fast technology advancement in the hybrid market.
Hybrids do not have more maintenance actually because hybrids don't have an alternator, starter, or serpentine belt that has to be replaced over time like a gas engine.
I went with a 2024 Corolla Cross AWD hybrid vs Rav 4 Prime, in OryGONE, high gas prices, cheap electric, 5.9¢/kwh. It would take 700k pure electric miles to make up the up front cost difference. I drive 6k/yr. I hypermile, get 80+MPG NON freeway. Freeway is @50. Super happy with choice. BTW forever drivetrain, no mechanical pumps, alternator, starter, no wear parts in eCVT, yada, yada. 0-60 7.0... same cargo area as Rav 4 with seats down, more front leg room, yada, yada,...
That seems like a good choice! Nice. I don't even think I've heard of the cross. We need a little bit more size but that seems like a great size for everyday usage and you made very fair points.
RE: Torque - My employer had C-Max fleet cars starting in 2013. They're kinda ugly but they ran great, and I drove them all over WA state. When I had to pass someone the C-Max had amazing torque because the electric motor kicked in when I floored it, and those don't have a torque curve, it's straight up. However, we're Toyota fans in this house to the Prius would be our choice to buy.
That's funny, I'm not familiar with the C-Max... did those hybrids get pretty good range? I imagine they must have. You think they were just discontinued due to their lack of sales? I guess hybrids besides the Prius didn't really take off back then did they? Yeah we are new Toyota fans too. Looking forward to (hopefully) getting one soon. Being a 1 vehicle family is tough now the little ones aren't so little anymore and are joining all kinds of activities! Thanks for watching 👊
@@Nattodayy That's what we were getting on the 2013 C-Max. I always enjoyed driving them, and I don't know why they weren't popular with the rest of the team. At my age form follows function.
I'm not math wizard but my wife is an accountant and we've got years of data to work with. We JUST pulled the trigger on an EV so it'll be interesting once we get some data to really see how accurate those numbers were. I'll keep ya posted 👊
I had owned a 4Runner for 7 years and 120,000 miles. Bought new for $46k. I got $20k when I sold it and bought Tesla model 3 Long Range AWD. I had spent over $25k just in gas to drive my 4Runner. If I would buy Tesla I would save $17k just in gas. So my 4Runner had cost me $43k combined gas and depreciation. And I paid $45k for my Tesla. So basically Tadlą can be worth 0 after 7 years and it will cost me the same as haven Toyota 4Runner.
Yeah I was kinda feeling that way too when I was mathing it out... even if you get ZERO resale, at the end you were left with a great time driving around with barely spending money on fuel. It all seems to even out. We are still on the one vehicle but seem to lean more and more towards the EV. The EV would be a no-brainer for a second vehicle, but if we just replace our ONE family vehicle it's still a harder decision.
Another idiot comparing an off-road tank with light passenger car.....why didn't you just toss in a moped while you were at it. Try comparing a Toyota Corolla and see how stupid your numbers are Goober
Your 4Runner isn’t a smooth ride like a Tesla model 3. The speakers are much better and the comfort overall is beyond a Toyota. In 7 years the price of fuel will go up while increasing Sun Wind and Battery power will make electricity cheaper.
@@marcc.490 Scary to think people like you roam the streets, or worse even vote. 4-Runner is an off road vehicle, not a car dummy....no comparison. Electricity will NEVER get cheaper with solar or wind...not possible, and fuel only goes up because of Marxist democrats in office that refuse to drill for oil. Your Tesla piece of shit will be dead at 120,000 miles and need a new battery at $20,000. Get off moms computer kid....
Yes, the much higher depreciation when coming to selling it or trading it in and replacing the battery. New battery technology will be much better by then and a newer much better cheaper vehicle by then. I would stick with hybrid or plug in hybrid for now. As long as your vehicle is running well for now it all good.
Nice video, have the same dilemma. Things to consider: base model Tesla uses LFP batteries which degrade only about 2% a year. So will have about. 80% capacity in 10 years Any kind of ICE vehicle will have other type of service, belts, turbos, battery, filters, pumps to be replaced. Your PHEV battery is most likely not LFP and will degrade much faster over 10 years. Hard not to go for base model Tesla but that future resale value 😢
Thanks for watching! The more I'm chatting with Tesla owners that purchased them in 2016+ the more confident I am that they will still be usable vehicles in the future... I'm with you... leaning towards the Tesla. 👊😆 Though where we live the closest Tesla dealership is 2 hours away :(
Be careful with LFP, they are a bit of an unproven technology, not to say they don’t show promise in certain applications. We just do not have the data to say how they will perform for the average lifespan of a vehicle which is currently 17 years here in the UK. For example: th-cam.com/video/GLubwlYCOq0/w-d-xo.html This survey has 135 respondents, 7.4% of them experienced a battery failure, most failed under 80k miles and mostly model 3. This will usually be covered under warranty, but once out of warranty, you are looking at a $23k bill which if the above is to be believed, will only get you a 50 to 80k miles in 7.4% of cases, that’s a pretty staggering failure rate. They also have specific disadvantages, even in moderately cold climate (5c), the batteries may flat out refuse to charge until they are conditioned (increasing charge times to 2 hours and increasing your charge cost), the range drop is significantly higher winter than non LFP, they are less efficient, they have 30-50% less energy density (larger/heavier), they cannot provide as much voltage (power), they can’t accurately show range - this is why Tesla recommends discharging them down to 0% frequently (this may be contributing to the high failure rate?). So really serious downsides and why none of the long range of luxury models use them. Mercedes for example still uses massive amount of cobalt, they currently use a ratio of 8:1:1 nickel, cobalt, manganese. Thats how they all can do this flat charging curves. If you lower the cobalt to 1% or less like Tesla you can't pump that hard on the battery or you causing lithium spikes to damage and worst case short the battery. Thats why LFP charge a lot slower then NCA or NCM cells. Cobalt is a stabiliser. Most companies don’t want bad marketing on their charging curves so they keep using 5-10% cobalt..
@@DigiDriftZoneLike we always consider all new ICE engines, new turbos, new transmissions, new injectors, new cylinder heads and pistons, new materials eg castings, aluminium, steel and plastic parts, new electronics.
@@Harrythehun yes and all of these are around 10% of the materials that go into a disposable EV battery, except for the sake of the planet, all these things can be kept going and are economically recyclable. For example my 20 year old Audi A4 is still someone’s daily driver right now with minimal maintenance, it passed the last 5 MOT inspections with not even an advisory.
The fuel savings for the Prius Prime may be under done. We have a 2018 Outlander PHEV and we saved $1290 in fuel compared to the 2009 RAV4 that we had previously or 55% of what we spent previously. About 45% of our driving was in EV range and the EV range is only 25-30km. The EV batteries have thermal management and they likely will last longer than a hybrid. Less than 2% of EVs have needed battery replacement. We got a PHEV because we tow a trailer and drive 800km plus days 4-6 times per year.
Such as great presentation, I've had my 2018 (6 year old) Hyundai Ioniq 28kwh for the past 4 years and the battery is 97% health after 73,000kms, It is so much fun to drive and miss all the petrol stations, oil changes etc. Would not go to a petrol car, the extra cost of poor resale value and deprecation value - I do not care, it is fun to drive than driving something that drinks dinosaur juice. Looking forward to my next purchase the long range 77 MG4 EV.
That's awesome! I do like hearing good success stories like this. We want a Hyundai for 10 years but the engine died on us despite parking in the garage and regular maintenance at about 50,000 miles. I'm not going to lie I left a bit of a sour taste in our mouth but it's running great now it has a new engine. You would buy another Hyundai?
@@TheSAHDLife I wish Hyundai continued with their classic Ioniq by now they could have put in a larger battery like a 70 or 80 kwh, the economy in this thing is amazing, in the 77k kms the only issue I had was the charge actuator was faulty and would not charge the car, but this was replaced under warranty no problems since. YES would def buy another but ALAS they do not make EV's like the classic Ioniq anymore so heading over to the MG4 77 as my next purchase.
@@clayton4115 Wow that's really cool. They don't sell those here in North America unfortunately, at least not that I can tell. How long do you thin you will keep your current Ioniq?
@@TheSAHDLife I love driving my current Ioniq however due to the poor state of ev infrastructure here in Australia is it not good for country road trips. Will be upgrading in the next 6 months or so to the MG4 77. The Ioniq is going to my wife as she likes driving it more than her Kia Picanto 😄 and she only does around 5000 kms per year and in a few years time my daughter will get her L's so it may be in the family for quite a while.
In ten years you would have a worn out hybrid, you dont mention brake jobs, exhaust systems, water pump and timing belt , emissions parts and the price of gas in ten years. If you bought a tesla in ten years you could swap out for a new battery pack if you even need one. Postpone your purchase for two years get a new tesla with a million mile battery and the ability to turn on FSD, which wasn't mentioned but if your my age is an absolute game changer.
Yeah I hear you 👊 I've never considered leading before but that almost seems like a decent idea right now... Lease for a few years then buy an EV. We've had an ice car for 10 years now. It hadn't been too crazy with regular maintenance. That would be sweet of it was cheaper with an electric though.
Biggest complaint on ALL three types is the high cost of purchase! I spent $42k on an SE RAV4 Prime in 2021. At the time the MOST expensive car I’d ever owned. Traded it in April 2023 for $42k (yes that’s right) and purchased a $47k Pacifica PHEV. I was happy with the resale value of the Toyota. I’m NOT happy with the value of the pacifica. My KBB is now around $28k with 22k miles. I know, many will say well no shit, it’s a Chrysler, what did you expect?! But, that much of a loss in 15 months is pathetic to me. I may be dating myself, but to me $45k is still A LOT of money for a depreciating asset. These days however, $45k seems to be entry level. Same with houses. Everything is inflated and overpriced. For millions of people the cost of any of these; HEV, PHEV, or full BEV is simply too high. What we need are fuel efficient AND affordable cars (all three types) that start at $20k!! I guess I should keep dreaming though because that isn’t going to happen I guess. The Chinese seem to have figured it out with their BYD cars though..
Yeah that's really interesting. Hopefully your Pacifica (which is a really nice vehicle btw... we've considered it) lasts for years and even though on paper doesn't hold high value, is a workhorse for your family. I feel the same as you about the price point... we bought our Sante Fe in 2014 and even though the engine died on us... they replaced it for free outside of warranty and it's running really well. If it was a Toyota we could probably still sell it for 20k right now, but we'll probably still be able to drive it for 5+ years at which point I feel like we will have gotten our monies worth. But yeah, I hear a lot of good things about BYD.
Which is exactly why I bought an id3 2021 in 2023 for merely half the price around 20k euros and i do around 50k kms per year! Will probably use for another couple of years and sell it with probably 10-15k loss doing 170k kms is perfectly fine!! Not to forget it’s a 204 bhp car with 350nm torque!
There is another option. Which is what I did. I didn’t have to spend $60k US on a $60k car. I bought a “used” CPO $60k ev for $40k with 3000 miles on it. it’s amazing and I wouldn’t go back. Also, phev doesn’t have heat in the winter unless the engine runs. Living in the northeast that’s an issue. Ev with heat pump is great. I can warm up the car from the app in the morning without even opening the garage door. Bliss
in indonesia BYD Seal changes the whole game.. BYD seal cost 40,000$ in here ionic 6 and tesla cost twice ICE comparison is BMW,Benz that cost 100,000$-150,000$ this is why i bought a seal EV❤ my point is it doesnt matter if its EV,ICE/Hybrid/PHEV which car with best value for the money is best for u
Yeah wow, that Seal looks pretty cool too and seems to have good performance! I wonder what it would sell for here (in Canada). We're still having a hard time figuring out what vehicle works best for us. It's easy if we got two cars (one hybrid one EV) but since we try to only have 1 car it's a harder decision.
My friend´s father drives a 10 year old tesla model s. AFAIK, the battery is “OK”, but the car needs the same maintenance as any car of this age - suspension joints, A/C fix, power steering issues.
Yeah that's interesting! So he's gotten the benefits of driving EV over the last 10 years (saving money, great performance) and it's still rocking. That's awesome. Still no oil changes at least though!
I just bought the 2024 Hyundai Santa Fe hybrid and I absolutely love it. Get around 550 miles until you have to fill up. Depending on how you drive it.
Nice! You know, we bought the fully loaded 2014 Sante Fe and I have to say, the features are still fantastic and the car feels great even today. It would be nice if it were a hybrid etc but you sure get such good value from Hyundai's right? That range seems awesome.
Thanks for saying! Glad you found the video. A lot of comments mention Tesla's being cheap and how leasing is a great option but, jeez, here in BC those options are still just a little too much. I think leasing could be an interesting video to talk about but again it might have such different results depending on where you're from.
Living in the UK I went from a diesel to a plug in hybrid then to an EV. Finally decided to go back to plug in hybrid as it suits our lifestyle better than a long range EV. We kept an older EV as our 2nd car for the last 8 years and plan to keep it until its RIP 😊
That's interesting and sounds like a good setup... something we would like to have as well. Do you mind if I ask which vehicles in particular you kept?
Wait why does the better tech around the corner thing only affect EVs? if the new technology is going to eclipse current EVs what’s it going to do to ICEVs? Why would people still be paying top dollar for petrol cars when dirt cheap second hand EVs are around with the infrastructure built out?
Well I think there's more room for innovation in EV vehicles compared to ICE. They are quieter and have more space for features perhaps not thought of in traditional vehicles. Who knows?! Not I! I hear what you are saying though... and hopefully all vehicles benefit from the tech of the future.
My first electric was a 2017 Chevy Volt. I managed to do all my local driving on all electric and only needed gas if I went on a trip that was over an hour away. I had it for 3 ½ years and sold it once the warranty expired. Now I’ve had a Tesla Model Y for the last 31/2 years with absolutely no problems so far. I plan to sell or trade it in sometime in the next year and for the first time I plan on buying the exact same car again. Range anxiety isn’t a problem at all and I charge at home 99% My trick (although maybe expensive) is to own the vehicle just as long as I have the warranty coverage
Pretty crazy it's been so good you would buy the same one... That's awesome! I think the next years model will be a refresh too so that's a good time to do it. I hear lots of great stories like this... hopefully we can do something similar in the near future.
@@timothykeith1367 it’s my policy for ICE vehicles too as I’m old and don’t want to mess with repairs not covered by warranty. I haven’t had any major problems in any vehicle I’ve owned while under warranty
I bought a used plug-in hybrid. It has been great so far. I can charge for free at work (which is most common for me), or at home for the cost of electricity. Plus there are some free charging stations a few places that I go. I do recommend getting one that has the range to accommodate your typical drives. Mine gets about 40 miles of EV range, which is plenty for me most of the time. But a lot of PHEVs get less range and a lot of workers have longer commutes and can’t charge at work for free. Just stuff to consider. Also, even though PHEVs do have to have oil changes, it’s not very often if you regularly plug the car in and don’t regularly drive over the EV range. I do think it’s odd to compare a tesla model 3 vs a Hyundai Santa Fe. Not only is it ICE vs EV. It’s an SUV ICE vs an EV sedan. At very least compare the model 3 to something like an ICE Toyota Corolla if you’re going to compare it to an ICE vehicle. Or else compare the Santa Fe to an Ionic 5 or a tesla model y or some other EV SUV.
Good point on the oil changes on heavy EV usage for the PHEV owners. Yeah the SUV ICE to EV comparison was just for math's sake... it's the data I had exact numbers on. I figured people could adjust it based on their vehicles if they wanted to. Which PHEV did you get? It sure would be nice if they could get to that 60 mile range. Seems like we're almost there.
@@TheSAHDLife I have a 2016 Chevy Volt. Originally the listed EV range was 53 miles (which seems way optimistic). In reality it today gets between about 32 and 44 depending on conditions. Keep in mind that every listed PHEV has an optimistic EV range. And over time it becomes even more optimistic as the battery wears down. I still find around 40 miles very useful and would find 30 useful as well. But I don’t regularly drive far and have lots of charging options.
If you can - get the smallest, simplest gasoline vehicle that meets your needs. No hybrid, no EV - get something like a used Yaris. The overall savings will vastly surpass any electric type car and simple cars are relatively low cost to repair. A Yaris can last 500,000 miles. Don't buy with your ego.
Yeah I hear that. We aren't opposed to that idea especially since our second vehicle will only really be for dropping kids off and errands etc... for our main vehicle it's nice to have something a little safer when we're going on the freeway with kids etc you know? But yeah, good idea.
For me, honestly, I don't really care about resale value on a car, as long as it had the tech and the thing that I needed to do. If I'm buying cars, a used car for me would be 5 years old and if I'm buying a brand new car just buy a brand new car.
Yeah good call. We've had our other vehicle for 10 years (the longest I've EVER kept a car) because it still has sweet features. There is nothing new I've driven that is a lot better than that vehicle for what it does. We DID just get a new vehicle though but it's because our family needed a second car. There's no point spending more money on that other vehicle, it's great.
Something i don't see talked about much is 5 or 10 years from now when you may need a new battery, what kind of upgraded battery replacements will be available? You may be able to spend less and have more range by putting a newer battery tech in the older vehicle.
Well that's the million dollar question! I don't know, I don't think dealerships are going to want to lose money by putting new batteries in older vehicles. HOPEFULLY smaller shops will find ways to do this because I hope something like that would be the case... but people want to make money right, and you won't make money doing that.
You are missing the lost opportunity cost on the extra money you will spend for the full EV. Most of the cost analysis I see on vehicle purchases overlook this factor. That 20k extra you spent on the EV when invested in an appreciating asset over 10 years could totally transform which vehicle makes the most financial sense.
Oh for sure, I thought I tried to address that in the video. I will say that while it is a lost/sunken cost for a lot of people, for others they do get the satisfaction of enjoying the benefits of a more premium products and being early adopters to new technology. That's not worth it for ME but some people really get value from it. But some people are just terrible with money too. Waiting it out and seeing what happens seems to be the smartest options. We don't NEED a vehicle quite yet, it's tough having 1 still but we save so much we will do this I think until we are forced to get a 2nd. What would you buy right now?
@@TheSAHDLife I drive an F150, not the hybrid version, but I would consider a plug-in hybrid truck down the road, especially if the tax incentives put them on par with the straight hybrid.
I've heard nothing but good things from the Chevy Volts! I wish we got on that train years ago. I've always been a little worried about Chevy's though you know? I haven't had the best experiences with Domestic vehicles throughout owning cars over the last 25 years.
For me, i dont (because of my health) make a lot of money. So resale is a massive factor for me to be able to get a newer car rather than sink money into one that will continue to have problems as it ages. Additionally, tesla specifically, I worry about what happens when the warranty runs out whether it'll be serviced, how much that would cost and whether it would be worth anything when i want to trade up. Otherwise an EV is perfectly fine for anything i need to do, but a hybrid or phev just makes more sense in the current market. Finally, there was a story i heard about phev owners getting charged both the gas vehicle and ev vehicle taxes for roadway use, but i dont remember where the story came from UK or Australia.
I'm right there with you. I love the idea of it but just financially it doesn't seem like the smartest choice right now. It's like record versus tape versus betamax.
Great comparison. I just don't know how the phev works. Battery used first and then gas kicks in, OR is there a switch where I can use battery until out, then gas kicks in. When battery is all used up in the 40 miles, then gas will take over all the way thus no more battery juice left OR ????, still don't understand.
Thanks for watching. So I think with most newer plug-in hybrids the electric engine is what drives the car. The gas motor is basically a generator. There's a few modes that you can use it in... You can do straight EV mode until the electric is done like you said which is great for around town, or you can put it in charge mode so as you're going downhills and using braking it takes that energy and charges up the battery slightly... We've gone down massive mountain Hills in my parents plug in where it almost charges it full going down a giant Hill which is crazy and cool. But the power is not as efficient when the electric battery is completely dead. It's just nice that you could leave your house and drive across the country just going to gas stations only if you wanted to, or, you could use it for scooting around town at a fraction of the fuel price on straight battery.
The only slightly used ones in our area that are decent values are the previous model. I can't decide if I'm still consider the previous model even though it reviews very well. It's just not quite as inspiring. If you worth keeping an eye out on the second-hand market too though in case someone needs to sell theirs.
I am considering to get used tesla with 3-4 years warranty left on them. If something happens to battery down the road I am covered and still saving on gas during this time period. Let’s say battery goes down less than 70% I am still good with the range. Also you can get extended warranties with payin $3000 extra. Buying brand new tesla doesn’t make sense to me. The incentives are not high enough to consider the option. 4 years old tesla model 3 ranges from 25k to 35k. Half the price of brand new. I can easily be saving $3000 gas a year. If battery needs replacement after some time so be it and it will still be cheaper than buying brand new. Plus you don’t need full battery replacement. Tesla does full battery replacements because the vehicle is under warranty. I may bot even consider to get charger installed since I live in a condo and one of my neighbour spent $4k couple years ago to get that installed so probably it is a lot more now. Am I saving enough and worth it that much to charge from home? Yes it will be convenient. The only reason I am considering getting a charger installed is, I heard that building have an EV parking spot but there is no charger, who ever get the charger installed and pay for it, he/she will get the spot which is at least $40k worth parking spot. Could be a good investment.
Interesting take about the charger. And yeah I hear where you're at... there's a lot to be said about the joy you will experience owning it also. I'd love to have one. And like you, a 70% range would still be awesome for me. Let me know what you decide if/when you do!
I like evs and has test driven several of them, but they are still too expensive, so I recently got 2018 Chevy Volt, I use the battery most of the time. Such a great car.
That sounds like a fun car. I've driven a few EV's too and really enjoy them but I'm in the same boat. Still not sure what we're going to do. Our neighbour is selling a mint condition 2018 Nissan Sentra, and while it's not our first choice, the fact they've taken such good care of it and we might be able to get it for a great price IS tempting. But on the other hand, I'd rather just get a Nissan Leaf. Though knowing the condition of a vehicle and how it was treated is worth something right?!
My partner and I share a Ford C-Max hybrid now and I’m just looking to get an EV to get around town. So my idea was to lease a Model 3. Leasing still gets me US EV tax incentives, and lets me reduce the investment on an EV until better tech like sodium batteries comes along.
@@Nattodayy Yeah I'm feeling the exact same way. The 3's seem roomy though so I'm not too worried. My wife just loves the taller drive height of SUVs so she's a tougher nut to crack.
I agree with you. It's about 15 miles round trip from home to work. My work has the free level 2 charger in the garage. I test drove ford escape phev, and I actually like it. I calculate about $400 per year for gas, maybe a lot less, if i get the ford escape phev. Comparing me. Driving my car, I spent about $3000-3600 per year for gas. Plus, it's expensive full coverage insurance. I do use my electric fast scooter sometimes. No car payments or loan. One that makes me not buy the car is car payments for next 3-4 years. Hadd to decide..
Hard to decide indeed. We've ramped up our driving and think we've decided on the Tesla Model 3 base model since it has the LFP battery and is just chock full of features while still qualifying for the FULL ev rebates here in Canada. It took us a lot of research to get here. I test drove the Kona yesterday and it was decent but just lacks so many features you get in the Tesla.
@TheSAHDLife I was about to buy a tesla model 3 before the pandemic. I didn't pull the trigger because of the charging issue. My house garage has the 240-volt connection, but knowing me, I will forget to charge the car since I usually forget to charge my phone. That's why I am leaning to plug in hybrid. It's very hard decision. I usually drive japanese cars like infiniti, lexus, and subaru. I had a bmw 3 series with the dual clutch transmission. I am financially free and really don't want an auto loan for next 3-4 years.. Hopefully, the plug in hybrid will get more electric miles and I definitely will pull the trigger
@@windblower5 The wife and I JUST made the decision we are going Tesla Model 3 for our 2nd car and getting the base model rwd as it qualifies for the FULL rebates in Canada and comes with incredible features in the base model (air cooled seats, screen in the back for the kids, seat memory, etc). We have done SO much research but this seems like the best thing for us. If it would be our only car it might be a different decisions but since we have a AWD ICE SUV for the family the Tesla it is. Although I'm a little concerned about being a Tesla owner to be honest. I have zero interest in talking about Elon.
If a smart buyer purchases a preowned EV, when somebody else footed the bill of depreciation, and keeps untill dead then the EV resale value and depreciation absolutely doesn't matter. Don't believe fairytales about batteries being dead in 10 years unless you plan to charge them daily to 100% and discharge daily to 0%.
Great video! As a former British Columbian from Kelowna now residing in Australia, those maps were nostalgic! My daugher drives a Tesla and loves it. She says that every time there's a computer update, it's like a new car. Hmmm. I'm looking at an HEV or PHEV. I'm wary of the reports that often surface about Tesla, affecting its reputation, and I don't care for Musk himself. But emotions aside, I read that PHEV's are more expensive to maintain and have had issues that need to be ironed out still. PHEV's offer newer technology than the tried and trusted standard Hybrids, so I'm looking to buy your basic hybrid that has better resell potential. Thank you for your logically presented insight!
Thanks for the comment! We just drove back to the Island from Peachland yesterday praying our Hyundai engine won't die again lol. Yeah you know, we are kind of feeling the same as you this point... We would like something reliable to get the family around... Maybe a Highlander Hybrid? We still aren't sure. Anything in particular you're considering? From a tech and performance perspective I'm so drawn to the Tesla but the battery success rates just don't seem that reassuring.
@TheSAHDLife Have you heard of BYD EV's? They are here in Oz. The Atto 3 and the Dolphin. Very well built with heaps of tech, quality interiors, great range, blade LFP battery (450kms and 427kms WLTP) respectively, rave reviews, nice design and totally affordable. Take a look. Both under $50k. Tesla is changing to the BYD blade LFP battery, I read. Safer and charges to the full 100%. Worth consideration.
Interesting question, and I don't know. If I knew the battery wasn't going to cost $20,000 to replace on a used car that was out of warranty I'd feel a little better about it? Maybe...
That's something I haven't heard about... interesting. We definitely have cheap electricity here compared to a lot of countries in the world... for now anyway. What are you driving?
@@TheSAHDLife prius and model3 but after driving the ev I think the hydrid is quite unresponsive. Of course, it doesn't help to have a small and old hydrid 2011 with 81K miles. The ABS system (cylinder master/booster and the brake pump) of the prius would cost more than $3000 to fix at the dealer and more than $2000 at any shop.
Maintenance and registration ARE important things to consider. EV tires will wear faster if you're always trying to beat a sub 4 sec 0-60mph but otherwise not a huge issue. My wife's Bolt EUV has 33k on it and original tires are still above 5mm wear. Maintenance cost on ICE engines is a significant expense but depending on where your EV is registered it will also be a noticeable expense. Otherwise good video.
Yeah for sure. I shared the tires things because I just hadn't ever considered how much more the cars weigh and that it is even a factor, but like you said, it only really matters with aggressive driving. Also I called my local insurance and was surprised that Tesla's were within $50 a year difference from ICE so didn't feel the need to talk deeply about it. That might be different in other areas though. Still haven't pulled the trigger but am leaning EV. Those Bolt's look just great.
Considering used 2021 plug-in hybrids - either XC60, Rav4 or Kuga PHEV. Since I work from home, our mainly usage comes from shopping trips (5km/day) and odd trips to an off-grid cabin or vacations. Our energy is 100% renewable, 5c/kwh Tomorrow our old Ford S-Max will be replaced with a lot cleaner plug-in hybrid. I have had to pay yearly 840 eur payments to our national traffic organization because of the diesel emissions, but that will drop to ca 100 eur soon. I feel I have done my part, hope the rest humanity cathes up.
I'm curious as to what you will end up choosing! And we haven't decided yet. We would like something to carry some extra family members from time to time, and as far as I know the only 7+ passenger PHEV's are the Chrysler Pacifica (eww Chrysler) and the Mitsubishi Outlander. I don't love either of them. I guess we're going to wait around a little longer. Sure would be nice to charger at home though. Do you have solar panels or?
@@TheSAHDLife Well, that sole XC60 in my region (Oulu, Finland) was sold just 10min before I arrived to the dealer, so much about that - and all others were in diffrent cities. 7-seaters are all sold out in this region and we have big taxes on them (we joke Finland being the European 'Cuba'). On thing about Volvo, my 3 kids would have hated that hub at the floor (battery near the middle seat) in back row, nobody wants to sit in that spot even in S-Max with a flat floor. Also, I fear maintenance of panorama windows which seem to be typical with Volvos. Toyota was an option, but those few cars had scratches and paint issues from rocks (imported from Sweden), and thereby my wife kind of chose the Ford. Kia Sorento was excluded due to too fancy display, which I loved -kind of like in MB GLBs (but wife didn't) - and co-pilot had a shitty bench (no controls at all). Similarily priced MB 350 GLBs were too old here (2017) from the view point of batteries... V90 is too low, important for wife. We have 3 kids and 2 dogs, so it's difficult to fit everything. I really wanted a Volvo design vice, but a lass, Ford it will be again. Trunk is quite small but we have one Thule skibox and may invest on another, or on a towbar based box, or on a trailer. Solar panels are getting more common here up North, it could be an option if we start moving more to the EV world. Long story short, our car selection was based on those few models that were availeable, with more time one could maybe buy the right specimen.
Fake numbers...it takes 300,000 miles to a plug-in to pay for itself and cheap renewable from what? Solar users never figure the cost of the system......5C/KWH is bullshit for the most part.
Glad you found the video! I think in a perfect world you'd have a hybrid for your long trips and an EV for the other 95% of the time. Problem is we are looking to upgrade our main vehicle since we are a single vehicle family for now and can't really afford two cars.... Even with all this knowledge we're still having a hard time deciding what would be the one to invest in. I still lean towards full EV but they're still a little bit expensive in our area unfortunately. How about you? What are you leaning towards?
BEV’s are so not there yet. I can drive my old Hyundai Sonata ICE vehicle from Western Washington to Utah in about 12 hours. I mapped out that exact same trip in a Tesla Model Y, and it’s over 18 hours. I don’t know very many people who are willing to put up with that inconvenience. Not me.
Yeah my conclusion is that they aren't for that yet you know? They are great if ALL you do is commute, or need a second car for running errands... and you have a main car to use for the road trips.
Is the stinger pretty fun to rip around in?! Those look sweet. Is her hybrid mop the floor when it comes to fuel efficiency compared to it or not that bad?
@@TheSAHDLife it's definitely a lot of fun, and a smooth cruiser. I don't drive much but the cost of ownership is certainly higher at around 2x-2.25x per mile 2023 Stinger GT - $2000 on premium gas over 12000 miles at an average of $3.78 gallon and 22mpg VS our 2020 rav4 xse hybrid $3000 on regular gas over 36000 miles at an average of $2.80 a gallon and 38mpg
I live in Bavaria, Germany and there are charging stations everywhere. I think the only people who are afraid of stranding on a trip are people who never drove a electric car. Yes if you drive on the Autobahn during holiday season where everyone goes crazy you might have to wait for a charger or you drive a few km extra off the Autobahn to a smaller city, charge in 15min with a fast charger and then drive back to the Autobahn. Yes some chargers don't work all the time and I can understand that it is annoying, last weekend I made a longer trip with my BMW i3 94, which has a very small battery for todays standard, I had to charge it in public and the first charging station wasn't working, so I drove 5min to the next one and used a 50kwh CSS charger and was back on the street 15min later. Yes filling a fuel tank would have been faster, but these longer trips are an exception for me, so it wasn't that much of a deal anyway. For 95% of my trips I don't have to charge at public and soon it will be even better, because Im going to buy the new Renault R5 which has almost double the battery capacity.
Yeah good points. The only barrier for me personally at this moment is price. EV's still aren't cheap. Our needs have changed a bit and a small EV commuter would be sufficient, but the cheapest ones available, jeez, they're $45,000+!
People living in North America do have to consider many things like driving long distances for family reunions and vacations, evacuation from wild-fires and Hurricanes, or work-related road trips. It's not like Europe where high-speed trains and inexpensive flights between second-tier airports are widely available. In rural regions, it can be 1 hour till you see another car or a gas station. BEVs are wonderful if it's just driving in and around your own urban neighborhood. But it's not a vehicle that you want for camping, hunting, fishing, or ski trips. It's not a vehicle you want for your kids going to college in a neighboring state.
What are the chances new battery tech/advancements will be able to be integrated into older EV's ? IE your Tesla battery needs replacement in 2030 go to auto parts store for after market SS Battery like you do with the 12 volt battery now?
That's a good and interesting question... and I don't know the answer. I'm not sure what current battery replacements are like for, say old Priuses... I wonder if they have improved.
I know the replacement batteries for the Priuses are better than the originals and relatively easy to install. And I know China is making cars rather than charging you. You just replace the battery. You go into a station and the discharge battery is removed from the car and the new battery fully charged is installed. Kind of like electric motorcycles where you just take out the batteries that are currently in the motorcycle that are discharged and replaced it with new batteries? I'm thinking by 10 years we should have that technology for cars too
Great and very detailed video. Curious if you have or would run the numbers and pending the outcome consider leasing? That way you get the fun of driving an EV & potentially qualify for dealer, Government or both incentives without battery anxiety since you'd turn it in in 2 or 3 years?
Thanks! I haven't run the numbers but there have been a few compelling comments on leasing that have made me want to. I'm certainly not opposed to it... I have seen a few people on TH-cam run some math and it really seemed like buying was the smarter choice, but I haven't work for the salesperson and dented on my own yet. Maybe I should! 👊
Oh yeah for sure. The math has been done with Canadian power and gas prices in mind as well which I know are very different than the rest of the world.
Little bit unfair to compare the Prius with the model 3. There Prius offers a lot less space. I see the point of doing this: both most efficient and popular in their class, but still. With a different cat to compared it would probably slightly shift more towards the EV, but the overall result would be probably the same. I guess the most important point is that solid state batteries are around the corner.. on the other side, some countries (not US though) are discussing to ban (new) ICEs in 10 years. This would also heavily affect the value of such cars 🫣. Therefore I tend towards leading at the moment. Which is not really cheap either though 😅. I guess for best savings, the best is to buy a used car. They lost already a large chunk of their value. And if you later resell, it will not lose as much value anymore.
If I could afford it I'd buy an EV right now. But the solid state batteries coming out just like you said is making it a little bit hard to make that decision.... I've never considered leasing a vehicle in my life but I think I might do a video where I map that out and see what that could be like... I would also consider used EV but they're still so expensive up here.
Series hybrid for the win. I get as much efficiency as the very best electric car or better. I babied it to work and got 6.7mpkw. Model 3 gets 4-5mpkw. Series hybrids ARE electric cars but the gas engine is not connected to a drive train at all. The gas engine is a generator only. It’s lighter than a full EV and in gas mode gets 40+mpg. And on top of that it’s not slow and has instant torque because again its propulsion is electric. Tires aren’t an issue and the reliability of the car has proven to be fantastic. If you know what car I’m talking about or have one then you know exactly what I’m talking about.
@@TheSAHDLife I’ve had it for a year now. I’ve filled up the gas tank 2 times this summer and I’ve done 1 oil change. The gas tank only holds about 7 1/2 gallons. I get about 300miles on a tank of gas and the manufacturer suggests an oil change every 2 years! Best car I ever bought
I would love to have a Tesla If I could afford one as for the battery I am sure the future Solid state batteries will be able to replace current batteries.
Agreed - Incentives are nation specific. And EV technology improvement is a global tsunami. The critical bit - is to buy (the minimum) of what you need for now and do not invest (big amounts) for another 2-3 years! Resale values bad? Play that to your benefit. In 2023 I bought a 2012 Toyota Hybrid - The Lexus CT200h - which is a Prius with a luxury interior. The original Hybrid battery was failing. This is a perfect reason for buying it - when you know a good workshop specialist in Hybrid Battery replacements. For long distances we have our V8 VX Toyota Landcruiser. For "fun" I have my Mercedes S-class, E-class and G-Wagon - for small mileages on these 35-40 year old cars.
That sounds like a nice little lineup. We have finally decided to get a Tesla Model 3 base model as we get the maximum incentives + referral savings which is over $10,000 off the MSRP. This plus the gas savings this car is a crazy value when compared to the features you get compared to the competition. It works for us based on our driving needs. I guess it's hard for people to buy for what they need as opposed to what they want. This is a compromise for me... I WANTED the AWD model but I don't need it, so we save $14,000 since it's 10k more and we wouldn't qualify for another 4k rebate on that more expensive model.
Honestly, I wouldn't buy anything other than a Japanese car, and Toyota and Honda are right there for me. Even Nissan are getting better without Ghosn there. But PHEV, Toyota has the upper hand I think, although Mitsubishis look good, and Australia loves them.
I'm kind of right there with you... I hear great things about Lexus but they seem a little out of range financially though I really haven't looked into it. My folks and best bud have Mitsi phevs and are happy with them... Who knows what the resell will be like on 5+ years though. Will anyone want them? I wouldn't want a 2019 Outlander PHEV really... The range would be so bad. My folks is a 2022 with a battery range of about 40kms... My friend just got a 2024 and says he gets 80-90 per charge but he's a bit of an exaggerater. They say online it only gets 61. That's still 50% more range in just two years though.
Everyone talks about how annoying oil changes are. Most people change their oil once a year and maybe two. But on you do spend more time charging your vehicle even if it takes less than 20 minutes to charge each time.
Yeah plugging it in might get annoying but at least you can do it at home. Oil changes ARE annoying as we still do it at the dealer (for warranty purposes) and that can take a couple hours. But yeah it's only a few times a year. Gas cars are still awesome and get us around for a pretty reasonable price.
Engine servicing vs EV. Here is France an annual service costs about €450 for our Peugeot Diesel engine. Our Tesla costs the same for tyres every two years. I think the most relevant issue is the EV tech being out dated over time, whereas engines haven’t changed much over the last 30 years.
Yeah that's an interesting point. My wife was wondering why anybody would want to lease a vehicle last night, and my thought was that while an eevee would be nice right now for fuel savings but in 3 to 4 years there might be SSD batteries out which could be a huge game changer. Feels like we're in a very transitional stage right now so it's tough to invest in fully. They're still quite expensive here in Canada anyway. We don't quite have as many diesels as you do in Europe so we're stuck with the gas ice engines.
@@TheSAHDLife The diesel thing has been a huge scam. There are very few and select reasons for why anyone would need a diesel engined car in Europe but when you see the number of small diesel cars around, it’s astonishing. I drew a comparison between servicing a diesel car for two years here in France (about €900) and tyres every two years for an ev (about €800-900). I think the biggest reason for why anyone would need to hold off while battery technology changes (it probably always will) is likely obsolescence. I’m looking at selling our 3yr old Model 3 (facelifted this year and with a new battery) and buying a PHEV as I think it will be more appropriate while the EV world develops.
@@TheSAHDLife the answer to that question currently eludes me. If I sold the Model 3 and the Peugeot, that might achieve €50k. Like it or not, I seem to keep cars for three years or less, so if I approach it with that in mind, the worst that could happen would be an annoyance for a couple of years. The Model 3 has been an annoyance for three years and the likelihood of me ever buying another diminishes with every comment from Musk. I think i’m after a phev SUV eg. size of a Volvo xc60, Polestar with comfort, quietness, smoothness and efficiency. Something that wafts about effortlessly and which doesn’t handle like a barge. Volvo troubles me due to reliability and bizarre devaluation.
Road conditions, elevation and terrain affects range for EVs which contributes to range anxiety. Thus Plug in Hybrid or Hybrid is still more robust and reliable as compared to full EVs.
That's definitely something I wonder about. We still haven't committed to one yet... though I lean towards EV for us since we do 99% of our driving around town and could plug in every night. In a perfect world we'd have a bigger hybrid for family trips and a small EV for scurrying around town.
I got a phev as charging infrastructure is bad where I am from. The only negative is that I'm forced to top up the fuel every 3 months as it goes out of date. I pretty much drive 99% of the time in ev mode apart from when the car makes me burn old fuel. Ev side of the car is awesome and I wish I went full ev
That seems mildly annoying about the gas... so how do you burn it out fast? Just drive around with the AC on? Yeah that's interesting... I've often wondered if I would be in that same boat, wishing for full EV too.
@@TheSAHDLife I got the Mitsubishi Outlander, and it requires 20L (200km) of fresh fuel every 3 months (in a 55L tank). So at least it's not a full tank. So in regards to how to burn it, I just make a point of not plugging it in when I get the 1st warning on my console, and then always drive it in "Charge mode" which runs the engine. I sometimes use it as an excuse for a weekend trip to go up or down the coast. But at the end of the video you make a great point about re sale value, so I figure the money I'm losing in having to refuel every 3 months will probably be offset by the lesser depreciation.
We debating Tesla 3 vs prius. My wife has driven 2006 and 2014 Prius so familiar and trust Toyota. I just got quote on 240v installation in garage today $3000🤦🏼♂️. Prius will prob make more sense. Tesla insurance will go up $60/mo as well.
Yeah that's a lot of money to get into one and have the full EV experience right? I think it also depends on how much time you spend in the vehicle. The long run savings on the EV and the comfort and experience of the ride could be worth it depending on your lifestyle. But I think the Prius Prime would be pretty sweet too. Seems like a good choice!
Model 3 RWD 2024 is currently less than 50k CAD with the gov't incentives. Very attractive honestly, esp. that no car thieves are looking for them. Also, social factors such as my wife not really liking the idea of working really hard just to drive a taxi car model. It's understandable to a certain extend. Plus, Toyota dealerships and their games are really off-putting in choose a Toyota. Good video btw, as it is the current headache I'm having. (Currently leading towards a Model 3 OR wait for the newly refreshed Model Y)
Haha I love that about working hard just to afford a taxi. Hilarious. And yeah I kind of see the point too. She's not wrong. My problem is that while the Model 3 RWD is pretty awesome, when you drive the AWD it's just SO much better. But then it bumps you out of the extra incentives etc... I wish my brain could be content with the RWD one but where we live it rains a lot, snows sometimes, and has tons of hills. I think if I didn't have those things to worry about I could consider it. I'm also excited to see the redesigned Y. It SHOULD be out later this year or the beginning of next year right? Yeah the Toyota games eh... you can't even test drive the Prime's since they never have any in as they all seem to sell so fast, or is that just a tactic? lol. We're still on 1 car waiting to figure out what to do. Car loans still aren't cheap either at the moment. If you had to buy something today what do you think it would be? If we did, it might be a 8 seater Highlander hybrid? We really want that extra space. Ugh I don't know what we'd get hehe.
Yeah that's bonkers!!! It seems on average they last for a very long time with minimal degradation. I mean even at 80% battery which is usually like 10 years later that is still lots of range for around town. I wouldn't want it as my main vehicle though.
That's awesome. I really like those. A lot of people who comment have been team EV but that Prius just seems like it would be a great vehicle to have. Did you have to wait long to get it?!
@@TheSAHDLife No, I was looking at a GR 86 but the the interior was boring. I like the interior of Prius more. No waiting, someone did not want the Prius Limited so I was lucky.
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When I was talking about the resale value of cars bought today in 10 years from now, there are 2 points you in the comments have pointed out... #1 - my estimate for the Prius (despite having the new design) WAS too high and it's probably more like 15k as opposed to 25k. And #2 ICE cars might not have as great resale in 10 years either since they will likely be less in demand. Who knows! I will also add I just checked in with my friend who has a 2018 Tesla and he says while the build quality isn't great compared to his 2018 Toyota 4Runner (doors closing tight, rattling while driving etc) he has said that the Tesla still runs great in 2024 with 100K+ mileage on it. That's reassuring.
The Prius is made in Japan, check out the build quality in person
@@LucasFR11 Interesting! I drove the non-Prime Prius a couple weeks ago and it felt great. It was surprisingly comfortable.
The strange thing about the chemical soup you get in Lithium based chemistries is they age even if you don't drive the car - think trying to charge up a battery that's just been sitting in a drawer for 10 years.
There are so many examples on the Tesla forums of the batteries lasting over 200k miles, but also ones failing in under 40k miles just from the age of the vehicle and likely other factors like how often it was parked in the cold, or in direct sunlight, how often it was supercharged, how often it was discharged below 10%, or above 80%, or more basic things like the battery housing developing a leak over time.
More worrying there are many examples of batteries showing minimal degradation but going from 50% charge to 0 in the space of 1 mile, or shutting off on the road when you try to accelerate. You may have experienced something similar on a 3-5 year old phone battery where you try to make a call and the phone reboots because the cells cannot provide the required voltage anymore, despite the battery health showing 85%.
@@DigiDriftZone Yeah that is interesting to consider for sure. In the past I definitely felt more examples of that... but I feel like my Samsung S21 is still going strong. Not sure I'd want to base buying a $50,000+ vehicle off of that experience though!!
@@TheSAHDLife Garages are adapting and are getting the experience to work on EVs. A 15k battery replacement will be cheaper in 3-5 years since they will be replacing dead cells/packs instead of the full kit. Go watch electrified garage videos !
Funny things is, they talk about oil changes as being an annoying things, but don't consider about hour long charging time as annoying when you are planning for a long trip
Yeah I hear you... but for some of us, we will do 100% of our charging at home. That would sure be annoying though, especially as charging stations get busier and busier.
It really depends on the charging archetype of the EV. They don’t all charge at the same speed. My husband has the fastest archetype charging infrastructure in his car and fully charges his Ioniq 5 at a charging station (fastest charger) in 15 min. The Teslas don’t charge as fast. If he’s not on a road trip he uses our regular level 1 charger at home and it takes 12 hours. He’s got enough range (about 330 miles) that he doesn’t drive enough during the work week to even need to charge it every day.
Thats because it’s not an hour to charge. Just got back from a roadtrip in an EV and 19% to 80% charge was under 25 minutes. From 47% - 80% was 14 minutes. It’s not an hour. It is longer than a tank of gas fill-up. But even during that 25 minute charge I was still waiting on my order at the local Wendys. So if you plan around them it’s not that big of a deal.
Charges at home are slower and done overnight but supercharges are the ones you seem to be referring to and they are much, much faster.
@@Alopen-xb1rb exactly- it’s not even close to an hour, depending on the type of car. VW ID4 is still about 45 min I hear. Most people (especially with kids) while on long road trips need to stop every 2-3 hours anyway, even if you’re driving an ICE car. We were at a QT gas station in GA the other day and waited 20 min for some of their fresh pizza- if my husband had been charging he would have been done by then, plus then some.
The Hyundai Ionic 5 has 1 of the fastest charge times if that is the goal.
The solution is leasing until the next gen battery tech is out. Your payment is way less, and once a solid state comes out, then purchase.
Yeah I've learned a bit more about leasing recently and that's not a bad suggestion. Good call 👊
We finally got our new 2024 Prime in March. Our third Prius. Very pleased with the first two (non Prime), and each averaged 4.4 L per 100Km year round. When we made the deal for the 2024, the dealer offered $10,000 for our 12 year old Model C, half of what we paid new. I don't think that in 12 years a dealer (or anyone else), will consider paying 1/2 the original cost of a Tesla considering the price to replace the Traction battery.
The new Prime ? We have driven it 3,600+Km so far and bought just $45.00 (a half tank), only because we had to take a road trip. And, oh, it cost more than $20,000 less than the cheapest Tesla. I like these numbers.
That's awesome, thanks for sharing. Jeez we still go back and forth almost daily. For awhile there we got really excited about the fuel savings of a full EV but we would be able to charge our car every night at home and might be able to get almost those same savings with a PHEV plus all the advantages to NOT buying an EV (like resale / trade-in as you mention). I'm really glad to hear from an owner so thanks for chiming in.
Is there anything you don't love about the car?
@@TheSAHDLife Very glad to hear it was useful to you.
My biggest beef with the Prime is the absence of a spare tire. I know tire technology has advanced and flats are less common but, they do happen. We had our first two Priuses for 16 years and had just one flat. It was sidewall damage, so, without a spare we'd have been stuck. Our tires are quite low profile and our spring roads are always covered in "road sores". The "Fix the Flat Kit isn't capable of addressing a sidewall tear. That means a tow-truck. Where we live, "breaking down" often means having to wait a very long time for rescue if your not near a community (which describes a great deal of our province). You can buy a spare tire kit from Toyota for the Reg. hybrid that fits under the hatch floor (why the bloody thing does not come with the car is a mystery). However, the kit will not suit the Prime, too little room due to the bigger battery. We plan to source a set of rims and tires for winter use. We'll seek out inexpensive 17" rims and the closest tire size to the 195-50's that came with the car. At the moment, no manufacturer makes a winter tire in the oddball OEM size. This route offers the added benefit of giving us a spare (in both seasons). So, should we take a road trip we'll just throw a wheel in back.
We both really like the car. And, neither of us has encountered the issues many other Posters complain about.
I chose having fun vs saving money simply because life is too short. I won't be able to bring the money saved to the other side. It's ok to die broke with a smile on my face in my last moments of my life. Awesome analysis of the subject ! Good job man !
Yeah you know I like that mindset too. It's very rare I regret buying the nicer item.
We still haven't made up our mind. I'm really interested to see what the new Model Y's will look like, but jeez Musk makes it tough to invest in Tesla!
I got a 330e this year and I have zero regrets. Super fun to drive, my commute to and from work is fully electric and my gas bill has dropped 90%. Drove 6 hours this past weekend and hit 48mpg on highway gas only driving thanks to how efficient the B46 is. I went to Algonquin provincial park superchargers in the area are enough to make you nervous. Happy I got it over the model 3.
Also, Canadians can relate well to this: finding a charger that isn’t a Tesla is still a nightmare, and half the time you do find them, they’re broken.
That's awesome! Sounds like you made the right choice. We just settled on a model 3 refresh and it's just great for us. We're just charging hip and 120 volt household plug in our garage and it's so cheap. It's working great for us and we love the features. I'd be a little scared to venture too far away from the major hubs here in BC though!
Great video brother. Like the way you put facts.
My point on 10yr from now is, lot can be changed as solid state battery tech others can enable the batteries to be damn cheap. The 20k full EV swap can be 5k... how know. 😊
Thanks man! Do you think the newer Solid State batteries might be able to be placed in the older, let's say Tesla, batteries as replacements in the future? Is that what you're saying? Or would you wait to get a solid state in the first place so that they will be cheaper to replace in the future.
I would guess 10y from now there would be lots of options for battery replacement, and much cheaper prices.
They already have some battery swapping technology in some EV vehicles outside the U.S market.
I do believe you missed a critical point. All 3 hybrid, plug in, and EV are affected by cold significantly. Not just EV's. My 2016 Prius went from 60 to 70 miles per gallon down to 30 to 40 miles per gallon in the winter. That was an a mild Washington winter. Now I live in significantly colder winter weather. Plugins are affected even more than EVs. My Outlander PHEV goes from between 40 and 75 mpg down to 25 to 35 in the winter. My model 3 RWD (not long range) still had 205mi range at 70mph in the winter. So if you compare all three, the EV is actually affected the least in the winter. There is also very little evidence to support EV resale value being lower than Hybrid or PHEV.
Wow I had no idea the mileage on a Hybrid changes so drastically. I'm surprised I hadn't heard that before! Thanks for sharing.
It depends on your driving pattern and the way you set up the interior heating.
In my hybrid Corolla, i achieve some 4.4L/100km (54 mpg) in the summer and 5.2L/100km (45 mpg) in the winter.
Most of the time i drive alone, so i set up the HVAC to driver only and turn on the heated seat and steering wheel.
But yeah, a lot of time the engine kicks in only to produce heat, which is kinda wasteful.
Dont be logical. Life is short, have fun while you can !!!
In 10years you wont thing about the 10k you lost but all the fun you had along the way !
Plus, tesla model 3 is the most safe car ever
Hehehe I agree with you!!! Though my accountant wife on the other hand does not lol 😆
And Toyota fakes their safety tests....they got caught recently
Another option to consider for your American audience is leasing an EV. They have some pretty crazy lease deals in the US right now. There are multiple models you can lease for around the same monthly/annual rate you calculated for your other options So you can lease for 3 years, have fun driving and make your choice 3 years later when there will hopefully be better tech and less expensive EVs available.
Yeah that's a good idea. I think I might have to make a video talking about all the leasing options because it's not something I've truly ever dived into and done the math on. It'll be interesting to see the new Model Y's coming out too, maybe that'll be the catalyst for me hehe.
@@TheSAHDLifeyou can consider the leasing deal of Vinfast :))
One aspect that is often overlooked for PHEV, is that if you use it in EV mode all the time, your engine and fuel are going to go bad and you'll have premature damage to those. It's difficult to find a place where PHEV would be the best choice.
If you do a lot of long trips, a HEV is probably your best choice if you can't live with an extra 20 minutes of charging time (also electricity on fast chargers is not cheap). PHEVs will have bigger consumption because of the extra-weight and you wouldn't get as much benefit of a bigger battery.
If you do very few long trips in a year, an EV is a good choice as you won't have those 20 minutes extra a lot of times in the year. A PHEV would probably suffer premature degradation of engine and battery (since the battery is smaller, you do more cycles, even-though it should still last quite long and will be replaced for cheaper).
On paper, PHEV is a great idea and I was planning to buy the Prius PHEV. But I ended up with an EV instead after doing all my research because I would be using it in EV mode for 6 months straight so very bad for the ICE. And the EV is so much more fun to drive. Regarding tires, it depends on how you drive. I get the same millage between my EV and my ICE on a set of tires.
Interesting comment! I would have guessed they would have thought of that (gas remaining in the vehicle in some cases for months on end) but maybe they didn't. What EV did you end up getting?
And yeah, I mean to be honest the range would never be an issue for us if we went straight EV. We both work from home and it would be a commuter 99% of the time. We could use our other vehicle for long trips though we don't fully trust it won't die on us again (Hyundai!)... but it does have a new engine in it.
@@johngonon1507 Thanks for sharing the link. Sorry, what's a Smart #3?
@@TheSAHDLife It's a model from the "Smart" brand (50/50 between Mercedes and Geely)
@@johngonon1507 Cool! Never heard of it.
Our Ford Kuga PHEV starts the gas engine every now and then to keep it working. It does make it use more gas than it should "need" to looking at our driving patterns.
13 year old PHEV, the only one that exists. 45-55 miles (80km) of ev range. put 35k miles (56k km) on it last year. since my partner and I are in healthcare, we are always driving a medium (40-70 miles) distance to a hospital which always have chargers... including road trips, we averaged 104 mpg (2.6l/100km) last year. i figure we saved around 2500-3000$ on gas here. our electric bill went up 7$/mo lol. I offset a good amount of that by adding solar panels to the roof which feed into the 12v system, which i replaced with a 4kwh battery i built for 230 bucks. i believe we did about 5-6k miles on the motor with just a couple dozen heat cycles (~15% of driving, all hwy). considering we only paid 6000 usd for the car... we are doing alright. and apparently with the phev craze going on right now, the resell value has gone up to 9k, probably the only category of car that is increasing in value right now. imo the prius prime is a joke with its battery size.
the truith is, if you actually want to save money, youre not buying a new car, and there is only one cheap PHEV in the US, its the chevy volt. dont buy a 60k$ prius prime in the highest trim level "coz thats all thats available", and pretend youre saving money by capturing 25k of depreciation before you sell the car rofl. my car is free to drive in a few more months, and my insurance is 21$/month.
the gen1 volts will go for 400-500k miles, think about it, you are only using the motor for long hwy driving at a steady rpm range, the engine is port injected (not direct so no carbon fouling), low compression ratio of 10:1 (direct injection cars run 15:1), the head of the motor is an iron block which doesnt expand and cause head gasket issues at 200k miles like hondas/anything with an aluminum head, there is not really a transmission, just one solid gear in a planetary gear system that is rarely used (gen 2's have a big belt thats basically a CVT to save money), the timing chain is barely doing any work except to keep the engine at a steady rpm, the breaks dont even wear out coz of regen breaking. most of the car is made from aluminum to save weight, weighs the same as a model Y despite having a motor, and the battery cooling system is the most overbuilt one ever mass produced, and the battery is inside the cab so it experiences less temp extremes or impact from a crash. the only other thing you worry about is super/fast charging ratio, which thankfully the car cant super charge so you dont have to worry about the battery being destroyed by an uber driver. there is no alinator or starter motor, even the air conditioner is electronic and runs at high efficiency 350v dc, one of the first ones. ironically toyota is paying chevy for their patents since the new primes copied most of the drive train.
Cool take, thanks for taking the time to share. Sounds like you've saved a pile of money, that's fantastic! So... let's say that car dies or gets destroyed, whatever... would you go and buy a Volt right now?
@@TheSAHDLife already did for my girlfirend. she was using mine so much, she decided she wanted one over her 2015 honda civic. we got another 2014 chevy volt around 8 months ago, i believe it was 7800 usd. same color, similar trim package. imo the leather seats are a lot more comfy (important coz we do lots of driving) and i would try to get a model with heated seats since it boosts the range significantly in the winter. thought it was funny that she got jealous of my older car and gave her newer car to her sister to buy an older model.
guess i didnt answer your question. ya i think i would. i only want 1 car for myself but dont want any sacrafices. im one of those people who thinks the end of the world is comming so off grid/self reliance stuff is important to me. no one alive to remember the gas rationing during ww2. i think it was like 5 gallons per week. good luck getting to work or doing anything
Best I can get for my 2014 gas car that was $24k is around $3500 that isn't far off from "nothing".
Yeah I hear you. I wonder if Honda's or Toyotas of that year similar model go for more... But they cost more also. So many factors to consider. Did your car need lots of repairs over the 10 years?
Our family got a duel-fuel Kia Sportage SX (PHEV) just 7 months ago in March of 2024. Even though we live quite a distance for work (70 km), we are averaging about 80% of all kilometers being EV only, achieving over 93% over the last few weeks. Our fuel savings are more than $55 (Canadian) a every week as compared to the turbo-4 gas version. Also, I'm happy to report that the EV range (in the summer) on the highway @ 105 km/hr matches the manufacturers estimate of about 54 kms, however, if you choose to drive country roads between 70 and 90 km/hr, you'll see EV range of 65+ km like we do every week. Our max EV range was over 70 km on 1 charge BUT that was in perfect conditions and averaging about 70 km/hr. Did we consider the Rav 4 Prime plugin? Yes, but not for long given the 10k price premium, loud engine, and over lack of cabin refinement. Rav 4 prime has much more power (300+ vs the Sportage phev's 264) BUT I still find the 224 lb/ft of torque the pancake motor makes on our PHEV more than adequate in town and on the highway too! Sport mode is INCREDIBLE and has all the grunt you could want, easily outpacing our previous Acura RL 3.5 V6. There is simply no comparison on interiors and tech (kia vs. Toyota) as Kia is loaded with every creature comfort, not least of which is the HDA (highway drive assist) which is completely addicting. On well marked roads (even off- highway) I always have it engaged. Conclusion, I would agree that dual fuel vehicles like PHEVs are the right choice in this time where industries are transitioning as it gives our family the best of both worlds. Crazy savings weekly on gas, crazy quiet and smooth ev driving and 5.8 l/100kms on our recent 1300km 3 day road trip!! (We were able to charge up twice over night) Without charging, we still averaged 6.3 l/100km on the highway with cruise set to 65 mphr/ 106 km/hr. Setting cruise to 120 km/hr drops our hwy efficiency down to 7.8 l/100km (no thanks). If your goal is to save money, pollute less, and drive the future without constant range anxiety, PHEVs are my recommendation!
This is a great comment thank you for taking the time. It really surprises me when I see the fuel economy being so much different the faster that you go. Very eye-opening and it's neat to see some actual numbers and data.
All very clearly, entertainingly presented and compared. Thank you!
Thanks for the comment! Really appreciate it. I love talking about this stuff! It's a tough decision but hopefully I gave people some things to consider. What would you buy right now if you could or had to?
@@TheSAHDLife I like the idea of charging at home for 50/60 miles range but also having an ICE back up, so a phev for me, if I was in the market. Do you like or watch Out of Spec Motors with Kyle? He’s an entertaining EV geek
@@richryan8904 Never heard of him before. Will check it out, thanks for the share! 👊
ICE cars bought today will worth close to nothing in 10 years, buy what you like today and enjoy it!
Yeah that is a topic worth considering for sure. I think gas will be around for awhile but I know what you mean. We still aren't sure what we'd buy if we bought one right now. We've kind of gone full circle!
Not going to happen. ICE cars are going to be around for decade’s because there is not enough electricity available. The price of electricity for the average person is going to break the bank. EV cars will have to start paying road tax. If the road tax was taken off of gasoline EVs would never pay for them selves. Free money from rebates haha that’s your tax money. 90% of people will NOT be able to charge at home.
Current EVs will be worth nothing too. At least I hope that battery tech will have progressed enough in ten years.
What car is not going be be worth next to nothing in 10 years?
I personally dont care about getting new cars every so often, i want something that isn’t going to break down constantly and require a lot of maintenance, i dont care if my car is 10 years old or older, as long as it gets me where im going and looks pretty im good with an EV
Yeah I hear you on that. If you can make it work with the charging I can't really think of a good reason not to. Which one are you going to get?!
@@TheSAHDLifeim loving the look on Tesla model 3 currently, pretty good range, super charging is super available around me as well as normal charging, I honestly would hold on to that car until it literally can’t be driven anymore
I own all 3 (2023 Toyota Highlander Hybrid, 2017 Chevy Volt PHEV, 2024 Cadillac Lyriq EV). I agree completely with your assessment of the pluses and minuses of all three. I absolutely love driving my Cadillac Lyriq, but it is not as great for long road trips and I am not expecting it to have great resale value. My Chevy Volt (a car ahead of its time) is truly the best of all worlds. It allows for long road trips, but also satisfying daily gas free driving. The Highlander Hybrid is our long road trip warrior with great comfort. They are all amazing vehicles! I am just praying that the EV cars last as long as possible, but I am prepared to throw them away when the batteries die.
Great comment! Thanks for sharing. And that's a fun little fleet of vehicles you have. What made you decide on the Lyriq? Is it pretty slick with nice power? We just picked up a Model 3 (releasing my video in the morning) as a commuter and it's been great. Like you I'm hoping it will last a LONG time and not lose power or anything soon :)
@@TheSAHDLifeThe Lyriq is a beautiful luxury AWD medium sized SUV that is probably the best value available for a fully electric vehicle. The Ultium Battery architecture is also impressive engineering. We were able to get our fully loaded Lyriq for about $61,000 after all rebates and incentives. I couldn’t resist. It’s a Cadillac with exhilarating pickup and it’s the quietest car on the market. We also have a dealership that can service it in our small city, that wasn’t the case for a Tesla.
One of the best videos I've seen. Very comprehensive explanation. Thank you! Couple of follow up questions:
- How's the behaviour with cold weather?
- Prime not having AWD is not ideal, what's your thoughts?
- What do you think about Niro Plug in?
Thank you!
Thanks! Glad you found the video.
From my research EV's lose on average 10-25% range depending on how cold it is. I didn't see how cold it needs to be for these changes to take effect but I imagine it's sub-zero temperatures. I know they have heat-pumps but I didn't really go too deep into learning how they work on EV's.
The Prime not having AWD is a big deal. That sucks! For where I live that is a reason I wouldn't consider it. If I was just buying this as a commuter it wouldn't be a big deal... but we both work from home and the next car we get will be our main family car so, I'd rather have something that feels safer/more capable.
The Niro looks like a neat little car. I think it would probably be a fine buy, but it might just be hard to sell on the other side. I personally really enjoy Korean Styling, especially on their interiors when it comes to the other car manufacturers, however, resell for them is hot garbage. While we have loved our Hyundai, the engine DID die on us at 90,000kms even though we babied it. To be fair, Hyundai put in a new engine out of warranty but still... we lost an AMAZING weekend and had so much stress for awhile there.... I'm not sure I would buy a Hyundai or Kia... MAYBE a full electric but I'm not sure I trust how they machine their combustion motors.
Hope that helps!
You looking for a cheaper plug-in?
@@TheSAHDLife thank you! We are looking for a reliable and safe commute car for Calgary. Our main family car is an Outback which is perfect, so looking for a smaller for city use. I'm checking: Crosstrek Onyx Trim (have everything except for the fuel consumption), Prius (Hybrid and Plugin) and Niro (Hybrid and Plugin).
@tomasbahamonde3795 FYI the Prius Prime hybrid (not plug-in) is available in AWD
I took the NIRO for a test drive. Its felt nice to drive but with being at a similar price point to a Toyota Prius Prime, I'd be going with that. Mainly because KIA is known for having engine failure.
Great video. Wish you included some rough hybrid maintenance numbers but still good info!
Thanks! I would love to dig deeper into all of that. Perhaps that's a good suggestion for a future video 👊
I've been doing some checking recently and on the Gen 4 Toyota Prius primes, so 2016 through 2022. It looks like it is about $14,000 to $15,000 to replace the high voltage battery in them. One of my local Toyota dealerships said that their price the wholesale price of the battery was $11,800 and they're probably going to add another $1,000 or so to the cost of that battery in getting it to me and then there's all the labor hours for taking the old battery out and putting the new battery in and reflashing the car's computer and ECU to play nicely with the new battery.
Yeah that's not cheap! I mean that shouldn't be necessary for what 10 to 15 years still based on how long the older ones have gone? That generation even though it doesn't have quite as much power they sure seem efficient. And I can't tell if I love or hate the design of the rear of that car lol
Thank you. This info has been really helpfull. I just leased the mercedes benz eqe 350 and bpought the GLB 250 gas. The sticker price for the eqe 2024 was $72,000.00 compared to the gas model which is close to $85,000.00. I got a $15,000.00 government rebate which brought the price down to a very attractive $57,000.00. This vehicle is very comfortable and the xtras are amazing. The range is 260 miles. I average about 500 miles a month. I charge it twice a month at 80%. If I have to go on long range trips, I use the GLB 250. It is amazing as well and my wife loves it. I will not be putting too many miles on the GLB, I will be using the electric more, since it is leased, the GLB will maintain a good resale value. In anther 3 years technology nwill be in the consumers favor. Thanks again.
Sounds like a nice fleet of vehicles you've got! What is it that draws you towards Mercedes? I briefly owned a German car in the past and, well since I inherited it from my dad who let it sit for awhile, oh gosh it was so expensive to fix/maintain. I imagine they are built well and have a very refined drive though. And good for you... those incentives are huge! The tech has been out for awhile I think you're crazy if you're not taking advantage of those incentives. We just got an EV yesterday (I'll talk about that in a video soon) and, honestly I don't even want to drive the gas car now lol. It's so fun. Thanks for watching and sharing! That's really interesting about the range/costs.
Thank you! I have been considering a phev for awhile now and you made it so easy to compare the annual costs, incentives and 10 year costs to consider the overall value. I'm a geek and loved the numbers! I will let you know what I decide. I had not considered a Toyota before and plan to test drive one now. Due to the consideration of the longevity future resale value/ Currently, I prefer luxury styles vs truck style so we will see how this compares to the others in this class.
Glad you found the video! It was a lot of fun really breaking it down... For us it's an easy choice if we e going to get two vehicles, but we can still get away with having one for our family so for that it's a bit of a trickier choice. What are your top considerations?
I think this is old thinking being improperly applied to new tech, specifically with the depreciation for EVs.
Fundamentally, the plummeted resale value of electric cars recently has been because of technological innovation rather than the asset in question losing its functionality/deteriorating. Remember, 5-year depreciation figures by definition lag 5 years behind the current models. I think the technology has matured significantly in recent years, leaving much less maturation in the near-mid term future.
Take the Apple's MacBooks. The resale price of an x64 MacBook air is ~30% original price but an M1 is ~70%, because there is relatively less maturation between M1 -> M3/4 than from x86 -> M1.
I believe 2024+ Model 3 and 2021+ S/X will see significantly less "depreciation" than older models, so I think it's worth it.
Or just buy a 2021-2023 Model 3 for like $28k US and call it a day!
I think you make a great point and I do agree with you. Unlike Apple however there is a lot more competition and marketing in the auto industry which makes what you mentioned easy to forget. Heck just watch any sporting game and see the amount of car ads that play. It's crazy!
I think when it comes to Tesla specifically, because they were so far away from the competition experience wise... While guys like me have wanted to jump on board for years, I worried about rickety build quality as all my friends with 2018/2019 Tesla's said they rattle years later though they still run well.
My cousin has a 2021 Model Y that she wants to sell and my wife and I wonder if we should consider hers or if it's worth the extra 15k for buying new. Tough call. I'll chew more on what you said 👊
I think picking up your cousin's Model Y would be a great idea!
1) You know that specific unit's build quality
2) You get a big discount on the price compared to a new one
3) You trust the previous owner and know they aren't hiding any big problems/repairs from you
I don't own a car currently but the sheer thought of having to do (& pay for) the maintenance on one drives me insane, so personally I would LOVE the lack of it on an EV
@alejandrowilcox8198 those are all great points. It sure makes a big difference buying a used anything from a trusted source. Those 2021s still look pretty slick too! But yeah having a vehicle is a lot. We've managed to only have one vehicle for so long which is just been great but every now and then there's a time where we need two vehicles. It's just so much cost for not very often you know? Hard to justify.
I enjoyed your video. Of course everyone have to calculate what is right for them. After 5 days with no power after hurricane I would be only comfortable with an EV as a back up.
Thanks! Yeah that would feel sketchy for sure. We just did a week of daily driving running errands and still had 50% battery left on a standard range Tesla... It has made me feel a little better about power outages etc but still. I also say that because we do have a gas vehicle as well so not as worried.
I'm either buying a Toyota Prius Prime SE or a used 2023 Toyota BZ4X FWD. I can find a BZ4X FWD, under 10k KM, for $33,000.00 + HST CAD or a 2024 Prius Prime SE will cost me $38,500.00 + HST. Both drive really nice but I do want an SUV. I know the resale will be much better on the Prius but I've been eyeing an EV for sometime and driven cars for too long where I want something a little more comfortable to drive. I plan on driving my next vehicle til the wheels fall off basically so resale for me isn't as huge as a factor and by buying a EV used, already saving on the initial depreciation. I do feel like the Prius Prime will outlast the BZ4X but who knows?
That is a tough decision. I feel the pull on the more spacious SUV, however, is that the first year of the BZ4X? I know it's Toyota but I just, I'm not convinced their full EV's are that good yet. A friend of mine just got the new Mazda PHEV (first year) and it's been in the shop NINE times in the first few months. It's a nightmare. It could be different with Toyota.. I really haven't looked into that vehicle in particular... maybe it's a sick deal but if you want something that will last long, I think you know the answer there.
A few more things I left unmentioned, safety ,❤teslas are in far less accidents much safer if you do have one. Sentry mode, dog mode, never have a brake job, unless you play too hard. Hybrids are practical but the future is electric. Finally excellent well thought out post.
I do hear great things about safety. I like that. I'm not going to lie, I want one. I just can't quite afford it yet as they are still pricey here 😫
I bought a used five year old Chevy volt five years ago. Every penny I've spent on maintenance and repair on this car (which has been a lot) was because of the ICE motor. My fuel costs have gone from about one hundred fifty U.S. in gas to about thirty U.S. in electricity. I am saving every dime I can to be able to afford a good fully electric car. If the pricing for electric cars was equivalent to I.C.E. I would be satisfied fully electric car owner right now.
Bummer to hear about the annoying maintenance you've had with the vehicle but those fuel savings are no joke. Very interesting. What do you think you would get next if you could?
Why do you think they are hitting cheap Chinese cars with tariffs so hard?
I'm praying for solid state battery adoption, and future swaps on current lithium
Yeah me too. We just bought an EV so, well I mean I hope I have no need to swap the battery, but if it eve needs to happen it doesn't cost as much as it does now!
First couple cars with solid state are being made in China now. It will be everywhere in 5-7 years. Then gas is dead.
I just purchased about 2 months ago after lots of reading and researching.
I decided full EV as I will own the vehicle for a good chunk of time and I am grateful with my choice.
My only regret is I didn’t buy 2 years ago.
Oh that's exciting... What did you get?!
Yeah if I was to buy something right now it would be hard not to buy a full EV.
My friend who i met during an internship, has a 2017 diesel pickup truck, and an aux tank in the bed, about 125-150 gal capacity. Every two months, ge comes to US, and fills up both his tanks, and that saves him quite a decent buck. Says, the tank has paid over twice its cost.
That's interesting. It would be weird driving around with all that fuel... Feels very Mad Max 😆
Sweet though. Probably not the cheapest setup though eh?
Hi SAHD, very good video. I would like to add some key points to this topic:
1. Batteries will become much cheaper in 10 years if you look at the price trend of EV batteries.
2. According to HLDI, Tesla is much safer than most hybrid cars. I personally value this a lot. I'm not sure if the hybrid you mentioned has AWD; if not, driving in any Canadian city other than Vancouver will be challenging in the winter.
3. Hybrid cars don't depreciate as quickly because their current supply doesn't meet demand (especially for Toyota). However, once the supply meets demand, they will depreciate faster since hybrid cars have higher maintenance costs than EVs and gas cars due to having both gas and electric engines and the fast technology advancement in the hybrid market.
Good comment, thanks! I hope you're right about the batteries... that would be a nice peace of mind to have. So what would you buy right now?
@@TheSAHDLife I just bought a 2022 model y long range a week ago. Currently the older model have very good deals.
@@yangliu1376 Beauty! I'm jealous. Seems like a great vehicle.
Hybrids do not have more maintenance actually because hybrids don't have an alternator, starter, or serpentine belt that has to be replaced over time like a gas engine.
I went with a 2024 Corolla Cross AWD hybrid vs Rav 4 Prime, in OryGONE, high gas prices, cheap electric, 5.9¢/kwh. It would take 700k pure electric miles to make up the up front cost difference. I drive 6k/yr. I hypermile, get 80+MPG NON freeway. Freeway is @50. Super happy with choice. BTW forever drivetrain, no mechanical pumps, alternator, starter, no wear parts in eCVT, yada, yada. 0-60 7.0... same cargo area as Rav 4 with seats down, more front leg room, yada, yada,...
That seems like a good choice! Nice. I don't even think I've heard of the cross. We need a little bit more size but that seems like a great size for everyday usage and you made very fair points.
RE: Torque - My employer had C-Max fleet cars starting in 2013. They're kinda ugly but they ran great, and I drove them all over WA state. When I had to pass someone the C-Max had amazing torque because the electric motor kicked in when I floored it, and those don't have a torque curve, it's straight up. However, we're Toyota fans in this house to the Prius would be our choice to buy.
That's funny, I'm not familiar with the C-Max... did those hybrids get pretty good range? I imagine they must have. You think they were just discontinued due to their lack of sales?
I guess hybrids besides the Prius didn't really take off back then did they? Yeah we are new Toyota fans too. Looking forward to (hopefully) getting one soon. Being a 1 vehicle family is tough now the little ones aren't so little anymore and are joining all kinds of activities!
Thanks for watching 👊
I have a C-Max 2015 (non plugin). It is at 146k miles and gets between 38-40 Average MPG. Never had any major issues with it.
@@Nattodayy That's what we were getting on the 2013 C-Max. I always enjoyed driving them, and I don't know why they weren't popular with the rest of the team. At my age form follows function.
Used model 3 long range is what I bought, this is the best value right now. For like 35 you can get a great car with 6 years warranty still
Yeah that's sweet. A fun car to have too I bet. I'm jealous!
I’m considering awd and rwd. Extremely good savings over new. About 27K for rwd 1 or 2 years old is tough to beat.
Mate couldn't agree more based on the calculations u made....
I'm not math wizard but my wife is an accountant and we've got years of data to work with. We JUST pulled the trigger on an EV so it'll be interesting once we get some data to really see how accurate those numbers were. I'll keep ya posted 👊
I had owned a 4Runner for 7 years and 120,000 miles. Bought new for $46k. I got $20k when I sold it and bought Tesla model 3 Long Range AWD. I had spent over $25k just in gas to drive my 4Runner. If I would buy Tesla I would save $17k just in gas. So my 4Runner had cost me $43k combined gas and depreciation. And I paid $45k for my Tesla. So basically Tadlą can be worth 0 after 7 years and it will cost me the same as haven Toyota 4Runner.
Yeah I was kinda feeling that way too when I was mathing it out... even if you get ZERO resale, at the end you were left with a great time driving around with barely spending money on fuel. It all seems to even out. We are still on the one vehicle but seem to lean more and more towards the EV. The EV would be a no-brainer for a second vehicle, but if we just replace our ONE family vehicle it's still a harder decision.
Another idiot comparing an off-road tank with light passenger car.....why didn't you just toss in a moped while you were at it. Try comparing a Toyota Corolla and see how stupid your numbers are Goober
Your 4Runner isn’t a smooth ride like a Tesla model 3. The speakers are much better and the comfort overall is beyond a Toyota.
In 7 years the price of fuel will go up while increasing Sun Wind and Battery power will make electricity cheaper.
@@marcc.490 Scary to think people like you roam the streets, or worse even vote.
4-Runner is an off road vehicle, not a car dummy....no comparison. Electricity will NEVER get cheaper with solar or wind...not possible, and fuel only goes up because of Marxist democrats in office that refuse to drill for oil. Your Tesla piece of shit will be dead at 120,000 miles and need a new battery at $20,000. Get off moms computer kid....
Yes, the much higher depreciation when coming to selling it or trading it in and replacing the battery. New battery technology will be much better by then and a newer much better cheaper vehicle by then. I would stick with hybrid or plug in hybrid for now. As long as your vehicle is running well for now it all good.
Nice video, have the same dilemma. Things to consider: base model Tesla uses LFP batteries which degrade only about 2% a year. So will have about. 80% capacity in 10 years Any kind of ICE vehicle will have other type of service, belts, turbos, battery, filters, pumps to be replaced. Your PHEV battery is most likely not LFP and will degrade much faster over 10 years. Hard not to go for base model Tesla but that future resale value 😢
Thanks for watching! The more I'm chatting with Tesla owners that purchased them in 2016+ the more confident I am that they will still be usable vehicles in the future... I'm with you... leaning towards the Tesla. 👊😆 Though where we live the closest Tesla dealership is 2 hours away :(
Be careful with LFP, they are a bit of an unproven technology, not to say they don’t show promise in certain applications. We just do not have the data to say how they will perform for the average lifespan of a vehicle which is currently 17 years here in the UK.
For example: th-cam.com/video/GLubwlYCOq0/w-d-xo.html
This survey has 135 respondents, 7.4% of them experienced a battery failure, most failed under 80k miles and mostly model 3. This will usually be covered under warranty, but once out of warranty, you are looking at a $23k bill which if the above is to be believed, will only get you a 50 to 80k miles in 7.4% of cases, that’s a pretty staggering failure rate.
They also have specific disadvantages, even in moderately cold climate (5c), the batteries may flat out refuse to charge until they are conditioned (increasing charge times to 2 hours and increasing your charge cost), the range drop is significantly higher winter than non LFP, they are less efficient, they have 30-50% less energy density (larger/heavier), they cannot provide as much voltage (power), they can’t accurately show range - this is why Tesla recommends discharging them down to 0% frequently (this may be contributing to the high failure rate?).
So really serious downsides and why none of the long range of luxury models use them.
Mercedes for example still uses massive amount of cobalt, they currently use a ratio of 8:1:1 nickel, cobalt, manganese. Thats how they all can do this flat charging curves. If you lower the cobalt to 1% or less like Tesla you can't pump that hard on the battery or you causing lithium spikes to damage and worst case short the battery.
Thats why LFP charge a lot slower then NCA or NCM cells. Cobalt is a stabiliser. Most companies don’t want bad marketing on their charging curves so they keep using 5-10% cobalt..
@@DigiDriftZoneLike we always consider all new ICE engines, new turbos, new transmissions, new injectors, new cylinder heads and pistons, new materials eg castings, aluminium, steel and plastic parts, new electronics.
@@Harrythehun yes and all of these are around 10% of the materials that go into a disposable EV battery, except for the sake of the planet, all these things can be kept going and are economically recyclable. For example my 20 year old Audi A4 is still someone’s daily driver right now with minimal maintenance, it passed the last 5 MOT inspections with not even an advisory.
Our family has PHEV - we went through very similar analysis 😊. Another consideration is how much space, i.e hatchback vs SUV vs sedan.
You're right! What did you end up getting? And any regrets?
The fuel savings for the Prius Prime may be under done. We have a 2018 Outlander PHEV and we saved $1290 in fuel compared to the 2009 RAV4 that we had previously or 55% of what we spent previously. About 45% of our driving was in EV range and the EV range is only 25-30km. The EV batteries have thermal management and they likely will last longer than a hybrid. Less than 2% of EVs have needed battery replacement. We got a PHEV because we tow a trailer and drive 800km plus days 4-6 times per year.
Yeah it's always interesting to hear other real world examples of fuel savings. Which plugin did you get?
Such as great presentation, I've had my 2018 (6 year old) Hyundai Ioniq 28kwh for the past 4 years and the battery is 97% health after 73,000kms, It is so much fun to drive and miss all the petrol stations, oil changes etc. Would not go to a petrol car, the extra cost of poor resale value and deprecation value - I do not care, it is fun to drive than driving something that drinks dinosaur juice. Looking forward to my next purchase the long range 77 MG4 EV.
That's awesome! I do like hearing good success stories like this. We want a Hyundai for 10 years but the engine died on us despite parking in the garage and regular maintenance at about 50,000 miles. I'm not going to lie I left a bit of a sour taste in our mouth but it's running great now it has a new engine. You would buy another Hyundai?
@@TheSAHDLife I wish Hyundai continued with their classic Ioniq by now they could have put in a larger battery like a 70 or 80 kwh, the economy in this thing is amazing, in the 77k kms the only issue I had was the charge actuator was faulty and would not charge the car, but this was replaced under warranty no problems since. YES would def buy another but ALAS they do not make EV's like the classic Ioniq anymore so heading over to the MG4 77 as my next purchase.
@@clayton4115 Wow that's really cool. They don't sell those here in North America unfortunately, at least not that I can tell. How long do you thin you will keep your current Ioniq?
@@TheSAHDLife I love driving my current Ioniq however due to the poor state of ev infrastructure here in Australia is it not good for country road trips. Will be upgrading in the next 6 months or so to the MG4 77. The Ioniq is going to my wife as she likes driving it more than her Kia Picanto 😄 and she only does around 5000 kms per year and in a few years time my daughter will get her L's so it may be in the family for quite a while.
In ten years you would have a worn out hybrid, you dont mention brake jobs, exhaust systems, water pump and timing belt , emissions parts and the price of gas in ten years. If you bought a tesla in ten years you could swap out for a new battery pack if you even need one. Postpone your purchase for two years get a new tesla with a million mile battery and the ability to turn on FSD, which wasn't mentioned but if your my age is an absolute game changer.
Yeah I hear you 👊 I've never considered leading before but that almost seems like a decent idea right now... Lease for a few years then buy an EV. We've had an ice car for 10 years now. It hadn't been too crazy with regular maintenance. That would be sweet of it was cheaper with an electric though.
Biggest complaint on ALL three types is the high cost of purchase! I spent $42k on an SE RAV4 Prime in 2021. At the time the MOST expensive car I’d ever owned. Traded it in April 2023 for $42k (yes that’s right) and purchased a $47k Pacifica PHEV. I was happy with the resale value of the Toyota. I’m NOT happy with the value of the pacifica. My KBB is now around $28k with 22k miles. I know, many will say well no shit, it’s a Chrysler, what did you expect?! But, that much of a loss in 15 months is pathetic to me. I may be dating myself, but to me $45k is still A LOT of money for a depreciating asset. These days however, $45k seems to be entry level. Same with houses. Everything is inflated and overpriced. For millions of people the cost of any of these; HEV, PHEV, or full BEV is simply too high. What we need are fuel efficient AND affordable cars (all three types) that start at $20k!! I guess I should keep dreaming though because that isn’t going to happen I guess. The Chinese seem to have figured it out with their BYD cars though..
Yeah that's really interesting. Hopefully your Pacifica (which is a really nice vehicle btw... we've considered it) lasts for years and even though on paper doesn't hold high value, is a workhorse for your family. I feel the same as you about the price point... we bought our Sante Fe in 2014 and even though the engine died on us... they replaced it for free outside of warranty and it's running really well. If it was a Toyota we could probably still sell it for 20k right now, but we'll probably still be able to drive it for 5+ years at which point I feel like we will have gotten our monies worth. But yeah, I hear a lot of good things about BYD.
You bought a Chrysler, probably the most unreliable vehicle.
Which is exactly why I bought an id3 2021 in 2023 for merely half the price around 20k euros and i do around 50k kms per year! Will probably use for another couple of years and sell it with probably 10-15k loss doing 170k kms is perfectly fine!! Not to forget it’s a 204 bhp car with 350nm torque!
Nice deal! I bet it's great. Where did you buy it?
The battery can be used as home electricity storage to re turn the solar power to home at night
That's rad. I'm not going to lie I want one... They're still pretty pricey here though
There is another option. Which is what I did. I didn’t have to spend $60k US on a $60k car. I bought a “used” CPO $60k ev for $40k with 3000 miles on it. it’s amazing and I wouldn’t go back.
Also, phev doesn’t have heat in the winter unless the engine runs. Living in the northeast that’s an issue. Ev with heat pump is great. I can warm up the car from the app in the morning without even opening the garage door. Bliss
Nice deal! Warming up the car from the app sounds AMAZING!
in indonesia BYD Seal changes the whole game..
BYD seal cost 40,000$ in here
ionic 6 and tesla cost twice
ICE comparison is BMW,Benz that cost 100,000$-150,000$
this is why i bought a seal EV❤
my point is it doesnt matter if its EV,ICE/Hybrid/PHEV
which car with best value for the money is best for u
Yeah wow, that Seal looks pretty cool too and seems to have good performance! I wonder what it would sell for here (in Canada).
We're still having a hard time figuring out what vehicle works best for us. It's easy if we got two cars (one hybrid one EV) but since we try to only have 1 car it's a harder decision.
My friend´s father drives a 10 year old tesla model s. AFAIK, the battery is “OK”, but the car needs the same maintenance as any car of this age - suspension joints, A/C fix, power steering issues.
Yeah that's interesting! So he's gotten the benefits of driving EV over the last 10 years (saving money, great performance) and it's still rocking. That's awesome. Still no oil changes at least though!
I just bought the 2024 Hyundai Santa Fe hybrid and I absolutely love it. Get around 550 miles until you have to fill up. Depending on how you drive it.
Nice! You know, we bought the fully loaded 2014 Sante Fe and I have to say, the features are still fantastic and the car feels great even today. It would be nice if it were a hybrid etc but you sure get such good value from Hyundai's right? That range seems awesome.
By far the best comparison video out there, and being in BC a lot of the facts and figures are comparable for me.
Thanks for saying! Glad you found the video. A lot of comments mention Tesla's being cheap and how leasing is a great option but, jeez, here in BC those options are still just a little too much. I think leasing could be an interesting video to talk about but again it might have such different results depending on where you're from.
Living in the UK I went from a diesel to a plug in hybrid then to an EV. Finally decided to go back to plug in hybrid as it suits our lifestyle better than a long range EV. We kept an older EV as our 2nd car for the last 8 years and plan to keep it until its RIP 😊
That's interesting and sounds like a good setup... something we would like to have as well. Do you mind if I ask which vehicles in particular you kept?
How about a lightly used Tesla maybe a couple of years old?
I think that's a great idea if you can find one!
Wait why does the better tech around the corner thing only affect EVs? if the new technology is going to eclipse current EVs what’s it going to do to ICEVs? Why would people still be paying top dollar for petrol cars when dirt cheap second hand EVs are around with the infrastructure built out?
Well I think there's more room for innovation in EV vehicles compared to ICE. They are quieter and have more space for features perhaps not thought of in traditional vehicles. Who knows?! Not I! I hear what you are saying though... and hopefully all vehicles benefit from the tech of the future.
My first electric was a 2017 Chevy Volt. I managed to do all my local driving on all electric and only needed gas if I went on a trip that was over an hour away. I had it for 3 ½ years and sold it once the warranty expired. Now I’ve had a Tesla Model Y for the last 31/2 years with absolutely no problems so far. I plan to sell or trade it in sometime in the next year and for the first time I plan on buying the exact same car again. Range anxiety isn’t a problem at all and I charge at home 99% My trick (although maybe expensive) is to own the vehicle just as long as I have the warranty coverage
Pretty crazy it's been so good you would buy the same one... That's awesome! I think the next years model will be a refresh too so that's a good time to do it. I hear lots of great stories like this... hopefully we can do something similar in the near future.
That "trick" is standard practice with EVs - dump them early - its why these cars lose so much value in depreciation.
@@timothykeith1367 it’s my policy for ICE vehicles too as I’m old and don’t want to mess with repairs not covered by warranty. I haven’t had any major problems in any vehicle I’ve owned while under warranty
@@timothykeith1367 they lose so much in depreciation due to all the misinformation out there as well as the FUD
I bought a used plug-in hybrid. It has been great so far. I can charge for free at work (which is most common for me), or at home for the cost of electricity. Plus there are some free charging stations a few places that I go. I do recommend getting one that has the range to accommodate your typical drives. Mine gets about 40 miles of EV range, which is plenty for me most of the time. But a lot of PHEVs get less range and a lot of workers have longer commutes and can’t charge at work for free. Just stuff to consider.
Also, even though PHEVs do have to have oil changes, it’s not very often if you regularly plug the car in and don’t regularly drive over the EV range.
I do think it’s odd to compare a tesla model 3 vs a Hyundai Santa Fe. Not only is it ICE vs EV. It’s an SUV ICE vs an EV sedan. At very least compare the model 3 to something like an ICE Toyota Corolla if you’re going to compare it to an ICE vehicle. Or else compare the Santa Fe to an Ionic 5 or a tesla model y or some other EV SUV.
Good point on the oil changes on heavy EV usage for the PHEV owners.
Yeah the SUV ICE to EV comparison was just for math's sake... it's the data I had exact numbers on. I figured people could adjust it based on their vehicles if they wanted to.
Which PHEV did you get? It sure would be nice if they could get to that 60 mile range. Seems like we're almost there.
@@TheSAHDLife I have a 2016 Chevy Volt.
Originally the listed EV range was 53 miles (which seems way optimistic). In reality it today gets between about 32 and 44 depending on conditions. Keep in mind that every listed PHEV has an optimistic EV range. And over time it becomes even more optimistic as the battery wears down. I still find around 40 miles very useful and would find 30 useful as well. But I don’t regularly drive far and have lots of charging options.
If you can - get the smallest, simplest gasoline vehicle that meets your needs. No hybrid, no EV - get something like a used Yaris. The overall savings will vastly surpass any electric type car and simple cars are relatively low cost to repair. A Yaris can last 500,000 miles. Don't buy with your ego.
Yeah I hear that. We aren't opposed to that idea especially since our second vehicle will only really be for dropping kids off and errands etc... for our main vehicle it's nice to have something a little safer when we're going on the freeway with kids etc you know? But yeah, good idea.
I will always choose EV over everything. Till you drive one, you won't believe it
That's my problem is I DID drive one and now I want one... I just can't afford it lol
@TheSAHDLife just save towards it. And please go for a brand new if you want to enjoy it most
Are you team Tesla or?
Toyota phev rav4 is the best from both worlds. Only tesla could pass in bev world.
I Have and still prefer a hybrid all the way
For me, honestly, I don't really care about resale value on a car, as long as it had the tech and the thing that I needed to do. If I'm buying cars, a used car for me would be 5 years old and if I'm buying a brand new car just buy a brand new car.
Yeah good call. We've had our other vehicle for 10 years (the longest I've EVER kept a car) because it still has sweet features. There is nothing new I've driven that is a lot better than that vehicle for what it does. We DID just get a new vehicle though but it's because our family needed a second car. There's no point spending more money on that other vehicle, it's great.
Something i don't see talked about much is 5 or 10 years from now when you may need a new battery, what kind of upgraded battery replacements will be available? You may be able to spend less and have more range by putting a newer battery tech in the older vehicle.
Well that's the million dollar question! I don't know, I don't think dealerships are going to want to lose money by putting new batteries in older vehicles. HOPEFULLY smaller shops will find ways to do this because I hope something like that would be the case... but people want to make money right, and you won't make money doing that.
@@TheSAHDLife good idea for a startup i guess
You are missing the lost opportunity cost on the extra money you will spend for the full EV. Most of the cost analysis I see on vehicle purchases overlook this factor. That 20k extra you spent on the EV when invested in an appreciating asset over 10 years could totally transform which vehicle makes the most financial sense.
Oh for sure, I thought I tried to address that in the video. I will say that while it is a lost/sunken cost for a lot of people, for others they do get the satisfaction of enjoying the benefits of a more premium products and being early adopters to new technology. That's not worth it for ME but some people really get value from it. But some people are just terrible with money too. Waiting it out and seeing what happens seems to be the smartest options. We don't NEED a vehicle quite yet, it's tough having 1 still but we save so much we will do this I think until we are forced to get a 2nd. What would you buy right now?
@@TheSAHDLife I drive an F150, not the hybrid version, but I would consider a plug-in hybrid truck down the road, especially if the tax incentives put them on par with the straight hybrid.
Extra 20k for an EV??? I'm not sure where you got this idea. The difference in upfront cost is more like 5k.
@johnlodge8546 I googled the average price of an ICE car vs the average price of an EV.
@@johnminichielli8957 that data is skewed by a lot of premium EVs and fewer budget EVs, but budget EVs exist. Especially in the used market now
totally agree! my chev volt is perfect.
I've heard nothing but good things from the Chevy Volts! I wish we got on that train years ago. I've always been a little worried about Chevy's though you know? I haven't had the best experiences with Domestic vehicles throughout owning cars over the last 25 years.
For me, i dont (because of my health) make a lot of money. So resale is a massive factor for me to be able to get a newer car rather than sink money into one that will continue to have problems as it ages.
Additionally, tesla specifically, I worry about what happens when the warranty runs out whether it'll be serviced, how much that would cost and whether it would be worth anything when i want to trade up.
Otherwise an EV is perfectly fine for anything i need to do, but a hybrid or phev just makes more sense in the current market.
Finally, there was a story i heard about phev owners getting charged both the gas vehicle and ev vehicle taxes for roadway use, but i dont remember where the story came from UK or Australia.
I'm right there with you. I love the idea of it but just financially it doesn't seem like the smartest choice right now. It's like record versus tape versus betamax.
Great comparison. I just don't know how the phev works. Battery used first and then gas kicks in, OR is there a switch where I can use battery until out, then gas kicks in. When battery is all used up in the 40 miles, then gas will take over all the way thus no more battery juice left OR ????, still don't understand.
Thanks for watching. So I think with most newer plug-in hybrids the electric engine is what drives the car. The gas motor is basically a generator. There's a few modes that you can use it in... You can do straight EV mode until the electric is done like you said which is great for around town, or you can put it in charge mode so as you're going downhills and using braking it takes that energy and charges up the battery slightly... We've gone down massive mountain Hills in my parents plug in where it almost charges it full going down a giant Hill which is crazy and cool. But the power is not as efficient when the electric battery is completely dead.
It's just nice that you could leave your house and drive across the country just going to gas stations only if you wanted to, or, you could use it for scooting around town at a fraction of the fuel price on straight battery.
Yes there is a wait and mark up. Slightly used are a good bargain . They cost about 35k preowned and over 40 new
The only slightly used ones in our area that are decent values are the previous model. I can't decide if I'm still consider the previous model even though it reviews very well. It's just not quite as inspiring. If you worth keeping an eye out on the second-hand market too though in case someone needs to sell theirs.
I am considering to get used tesla with 3-4 years warranty left on them. If something happens to battery down the road I am covered and still saving on gas during this time period. Let’s say battery goes down less than 70% I am still good with the range. Also you can get extended warranties with payin $3000 extra.
Buying brand new tesla doesn’t make sense to me. The incentives are not high enough to consider the option. 4 years old tesla model 3 ranges from 25k to 35k. Half the price of brand new. I can easily be saving $3000 gas a year. If battery needs replacement after some time so be it and it will still be cheaper than buying brand new. Plus you don’t need full battery replacement. Tesla does full battery replacements because the vehicle is under warranty. I may bot even consider to get charger installed since I live in a condo and one of my neighbour spent $4k couple years ago to get that installed so probably it is a lot more now. Am I saving enough and worth it that much to charge from home? Yes it will be convenient. The only reason I am considering getting a charger installed is, I heard that building have an EV parking spot but there is no charger, who ever get the charger installed and pay for it, he/she will get the spot which is at least $40k worth parking spot. Could be a good investment.
Interesting take about the charger. And yeah I hear where you're at... there's a lot to be said about the joy you will experience owning it also. I'd love to have one. And like you, a 70% range would still be awesome for me. Let me know what you decide if/when you do!
I like evs and has test driven several of them, but they are still too expensive, so I recently got 2018 Chevy Volt, I use the battery most of the time. Such a great car.
That sounds like a fun car. I've driven a few EV's too and really enjoy them but I'm in the same boat. Still not sure what we're going to do. Our neighbour is selling a mint condition 2018 Nissan Sentra, and while it's not our first choice, the fact they've taken such good care of it and we might be able to get it for a great price IS tempting. But on the other hand, I'd rather just get a Nissan Leaf. Though knowing the condition of a vehicle and how it was treated is worth something right?!
For me, I rented an ev when traveling and loved it but with nowhere to charge, I'm better off with a hybrid at the moment
My partner and I share a Ford C-Max hybrid now and I’m just looking to get an EV to get around town. So my idea was to lease a Model 3. Leasing still gets me US EV tax incentives, and lets me reduce the investment on an EV until better tech like sodium batteries comes along.
That's exciting. Have you test drove anything yet?
@@TheSAHDLife I’ve tried both the Model 3 and the Y. Although I really like the Y, I think we are going to get the 3 to keep costs down.
@@Nattodayy Yeah I'm feeling the exact same way. The 3's seem roomy though so I'm not too worried. My wife just loves the taller drive height of SUVs so she's a tougher nut to crack.
I agree with you. It's about 15 miles round trip from home to work. My work has the free level 2 charger in the garage. I test drove ford escape phev, and I actually like it. I calculate about $400 per year for gas, maybe a lot less, if i get the ford escape phev.
Comparing me. Driving my car, I spent about $3000-3600 per year for gas. Plus, it's expensive full coverage insurance. I do use my electric fast scooter sometimes. No car payments or loan.
One that makes me not buy the car is car payments for next 3-4 years. Hadd to decide..
Hard to decide indeed. We've ramped up our driving and think we've decided on the Tesla Model 3 base model since it has the LFP battery and is just chock full of features while still qualifying for the FULL ev rebates here in Canada. It took us a lot of research to get here. I test drove the Kona yesterday and it was decent but just lacks so many features you get in the Tesla.
@TheSAHDLife I was about to buy a tesla model 3 before the pandemic. I didn't pull the trigger because of the charging issue. My house garage has the 240-volt connection, but knowing me, I will forget to charge the car since I usually forget to charge my phone. That's why I am leaning to plug in hybrid.
It's very hard decision. I usually drive japanese cars like infiniti, lexus, and subaru. I had a bmw 3 series with the dual clutch transmission. I am financially free and really don't want an auto loan for next 3-4 years..
Hopefully, the plug in hybrid will get more electric miles and I definitely will pull the trigger
@@windblower5 The wife and I JUST made the decision we are going Tesla Model 3 for our 2nd car and getting the base model rwd as it qualifies for the FULL rebates in Canada and comes with incredible features in the base model (air cooled seats, screen in the back for the kids, seat memory, etc).
We have done SO much research but this seems like the best thing for us. If it would be our only car it might be a different decisions but since we have a AWD ICE SUV for the family the Tesla it is. Although I'm a little concerned about being a Tesla owner to be honest. I have zero interest in talking about Elon.
If a smart buyer purchases a preowned EV, when somebody else footed the bill of depreciation, and keeps untill dead then the EV resale value and depreciation absolutely doesn't matter. Don't believe fairytales about batteries being dead in 10 years unless you plan to charge them daily to 100% and discharge daily to 0%.
Yeah good call. If you can find good deals on used EV's I think that's a great choice.
Great video! As a former British Columbian from Kelowna now residing in Australia, those maps were nostalgic! My daugher drives a Tesla and loves it. She says that every time there's a computer update, it's like a new car. Hmmm.
I'm looking at an HEV or PHEV. I'm wary of the reports that often surface about Tesla, affecting its reputation, and I don't care for Musk himself. But emotions aside, I read that PHEV's are more expensive to maintain and have had issues that need to be ironed out still. PHEV's offer newer technology than the tried and trusted standard Hybrids, so I'm looking to buy your basic hybrid that has better resell potential. Thank you for your logically presented insight!
Thanks for the comment! We just drove back to the Island from Peachland yesterday praying our Hyundai engine won't die again lol. Yeah you know, we are kind of feeling the same as you this point... We would like something reliable to get the family around... Maybe a Highlander Hybrid? We still aren't sure. Anything in particular you're considering? From a tech and performance perspective I'm so drawn to the Tesla but the battery success rates just don't seem that reassuring.
@TheSAHDLife Have you heard of BYD EV's? They are here in Oz. The Atto 3 and the Dolphin. Very well built with heaps of tech, quality interiors, great range, blade LFP battery (450kms and 427kms WLTP) respectively, rave reviews, nice design and totally affordable. Take a look. Both under $50k. Tesla is changing to the BYD blade LFP battery, I read. Safer and charges to the full 100%. Worth consideration.
Wouldn’t cheaper and better batteries also hurt the resale value of hybrids and gas cars though?
Interesting question, and I don't know. If I knew the battery wasn't going to cost $20,000 to replace on a used car that was out of warranty I'd feel a little better about it? Maybe...
Good rate, mine is $0.35 so its quite different. The other thing to know about prius is the ABS system is very expensive to fix.
That's something I haven't heard about... interesting. We definitely have cheap electricity here compared to a lot of countries in the world... for now anyway. What are you driving?
@@TheSAHDLife prius and model3 but after driving the ev I think the hydrid is quite unresponsive. Of course, it doesn't help to have a small and old hydrid 2011 with 81K miles. The ABS system (cylinder master/booster and the brake pump) of the prius would cost more than $3000 to fix at the dealer and more than $2000 at any shop.
Maintenance and registration ARE important things to consider. EV tires will wear faster if you're always trying to beat a sub 4 sec 0-60mph but otherwise not a huge issue. My wife's Bolt EUV has 33k on it and original tires are still above 5mm wear. Maintenance cost on ICE engines is a significant expense but depending on where your EV is registered it will also be a noticeable expense. Otherwise good video.
Yeah for sure. I shared the tires things because I just hadn't ever considered how much more the cars weigh and that it is even a factor, but like you said, it only really matters with aggressive driving. Also I called my local insurance and was surprised that Tesla's were within $50 a year difference from ICE so didn't feel the need to talk deeply about it. That might be different in other areas though. Still haven't pulled the trigger but am leaning EV. Those Bolt's look just great.
really helpful breakdown, thanks for sharing this
Glad you found the video! Thanks for the comment 👊
Considering used 2021 plug-in hybrids - either XC60, Rav4 or Kuga PHEV.
Since I work from home, our mainly usage comes from shopping trips (5km/day) and odd trips to an off-grid cabin or vacations.
Our energy is 100% renewable, 5c/kwh
Tomorrow our old Ford S-Max will be replaced with a lot cleaner plug-in hybrid. I have had to pay yearly 840 eur payments to our national traffic organization because of the diesel emissions, but that will drop to ca 100 eur soon.
I feel I have done my part, hope the rest humanity cathes up.
I'm curious as to what you will end up choosing! And we haven't decided yet. We would like something to carry some extra family members from time to time, and as far as I know the only 7+ passenger PHEV's are the Chrysler Pacifica (eww Chrysler) and the Mitsubishi Outlander. I don't love either of them.
I guess we're going to wait around a little longer. Sure would be nice to charger at home though. Do you have solar panels or?
@@TheSAHDLife Well, that sole XC60 in my region (Oulu, Finland) was sold just 10min before I arrived to the dealer, so much about that - and all others were in diffrent cities. 7-seaters are all sold out in this region and we have big taxes on them (we joke Finland being the European 'Cuba').
On thing about Volvo, my 3 kids would have hated that hub at the floor (battery near the middle seat) in back row, nobody wants to sit in that spot even in S-Max with a flat floor. Also, I fear maintenance of panorama windows which seem to be typical with Volvos.
Toyota was an option, but those few cars had scratches and paint issues from rocks (imported from Sweden), and thereby my wife kind of chose the Ford.
Kia Sorento was excluded due to too fancy display, which I loved -kind of like in MB GLBs (but wife didn't) - and co-pilot had a shitty bench (no controls at all).
Similarily priced MB 350 GLBs were too old here (2017) from the view point of batteries...
V90 is too low, important for wife.
We have 3 kids and 2 dogs, so it's difficult to fit everything.
I really wanted a Volvo design vice, but a lass, Ford it will be again.
Trunk is quite small but we have one Thule skibox and may invest on another, or on a towbar based box, or on a trailer.
Solar panels are getting more common here up North, it could be an option if we start moving more to the EV world.
Long story short, our car selection was based on those few models that were availeable, with more time one could maybe buy the right specimen.
Fake numbers...it takes 300,000 miles to a plug-in to pay for itself and cheap renewable from what? Solar users never figure the cost of the system......5C/KWH is bullshit for the most part.
All the power full race car have tire changed frequently at race course. reach 100km in 6 seconds, tire have friction a lot with road surface.
Man that's such a crazy waste of resources! All the gas/rubber in a race. I've never been to one. It must be nuts. Such big business!
Thank you for making this video. It gave me a better perspective on what to consider before joining any band wagon. ☺️
Glad you found the video! I think in a perfect world you'd have a hybrid for your long trips and an EV for the other 95% of the time. Problem is we are looking to upgrade our main vehicle since we are a single vehicle family for now and can't really afford two cars.... Even with all this knowledge we're still having a hard time deciding what would be the one to invest in. I still lean towards full EV but they're still a little bit expensive in our area unfortunately. How about you? What are you leaning towards?
Consider BYD SEALION 6 plugin hybrid its my choice after a moth of comparing.
Aw I wish we got them in Canada. Have you got it yet? If so, how is it?
@@TheSAHDLife Not yet but soon, i'll let you know .
BEV’s are so not there yet. I can drive my old Hyundai Sonata ICE vehicle from Western Washington to Utah in about 12 hours. I mapped out that exact same trip in a Tesla Model Y, and it’s over 18 hours. I don’t know very many people who are willing to put up with that inconvenience. Not me.
Yeah my conclusion is that they aren't for that yet you know? They are great if ALL you do is commute, or need a second car for running errands... and you have a main car to use for the road trips.
Enjoyed your video! Went with a Kia Stinger GT for the fun factor, but my wife does have a RAV4 Hybrid for the practicality factor.
Is the stinger pretty fun to rip around in?! Those look sweet. Is her hybrid mop the floor when it comes to fuel efficiency compared to it or not that bad?
@@TheSAHDLife it's definitely a lot of fun, and a smooth cruiser. I don't drive much but the cost of ownership is certainly higher at around 2x-2.25x per mile
2023 Stinger GT - $2000 on premium gas over 12000 miles at an average of $3.78 gallon and 22mpg
VS our 2020 rav4 xse hybrid
$3000 on regular gas over 36000 miles at an average of $2.80 a gallon and 38mpg
I live in Bavaria, Germany and there are charging stations everywhere. I think the only people who are afraid of stranding on a trip are people who never drove a electric car.
Yes if you drive on the Autobahn during holiday season where everyone goes crazy you might have to wait for a charger or you drive a few km extra off the Autobahn to a smaller city, charge in 15min with a fast charger and then drive back to the Autobahn.
Yes some chargers don't work all the time and I can understand that it is annoying, last weekend I made a longer trip with my BMW i3 94, which has a very small battery for todays standard, I had to charge it in public and the first charging station wasn't working, so I drove 5min to the next one and used a 50kwh CSS charger and was back on the street 15min later. Yes filling a fuel tank would have been faster, but these longer trips are an exception for me, so it wasn't that much of a deal anyway. For 95% of my trips I don't have to charge at public and soon it will be even better, because Im going to buy the new Renault R5 which has almost double the battery capacity.
Yeah good points. The only barrier for me personally at this moment is price. EV's still aren't cheap. Our needs have changed a bit and a small EV commuter would be sufficient, but the cheapest ones available, jeez, they're $45,000+!
People living in North America do have to consider many things like driving long distances for family reunions and vacations, evacuation from wild-fires and Hurricanes, or work-related road trips. It's not like Europe where high-speed trains and inexpensive flights between second-tier airports are widely available. In rural regions, it can be 1 hour till you see another car or a gas station.
BEVs are wonderful if it's just driving in and around your own urban neighborhood. But it's not a vehicle that you want for camping, hunting, fishing, or ski trips. It's not a vehicle you want for your kids going to college in a neighboring state.
What are the chances new battery tech/advancements will be able to be integrated into older EV's ? IE your Tesla battery needs replacement in 2030 go to auto parts store for after market SS Battery like you do with the 12 volt battery now?
That's a good and interesting question... and I don't know the answer. I'm not sure what current battery replacements are like for, say old Priuses... I wonder if they have improved.
I know the replacement batteries for the Priuses are better than the originals and relatively easy to install. And I know China is making cars rather than charging you. You just replace the battery. You go into a station and the discharge battery is removed from the car and the new battery fully charged is installed. Kind of like electric motorcycles where you just take out the batteries that are currently in the motorcycle that are discharged and replaced it with new batteries? I'm thinking by 10 years we should have that technology for cars too
Great and very detailed video. Curious if you have or would run the numbers and pending the outcome consider leasing? That way you get the fun of driving an EV & potentially qualify for dealer, Government or both incentives without battery anxiety since you'd turn it in in 2 or 3 years?
Thanks! I haven't run the numbers but there have been a few compelling comments on leasing that have made me want to. I'm certainly not opposed to it... I have seen a few people on TH-cam run some math and it really seemed like buying was the smarter choice, but I haven't work for the salesperson and dented on my own yet. Maybe I should! 👊
Loved this video, i am glad I saw it. Helped me made a decision super quick 🤘
Glad you found the video! What'd you decide?!
This clip is more relevant for US and Canada because EV and PHEV prices are kept artificially high in these two places.
Oh yeah for sure. The math has been done with Canadian power and gas prices in mind as well which I know are very different than the rest of the world.
Little bit unfair to compare the Prius with the model 3. There Prius offers a lot less space. I see the point of doing this: both most efficient and popular in their class, but still.
With a different cat to compared it would probably slightly shift more towards the EV, but the overall result would be probably the same.
I guess the most important point is that solid state batteries are around the corner.. on the other side, some countries (not US though) are discussing to ban (new) ICEs in 10 years. This would also heavily affect the value of such cars 🫣. Therefore I tend towards leading at the moment. Which is not really cheap either though 😅.
I guess for best savings, the best is to buy a used car. They lost already a large chunk of their value. And if you later resell, it will not lose as much value anymore.
If I could afford it I'd buy an EV right now. But the solid state batteries coming out just like you said is making it a little bit hard to make that decision.... I've never considered leasing a vehicle in my life but I think I might do a video where I map that out and see what that could be like... I would also consider used EV but they're still so expensive up here.
Series hybrid for the win. I get as much efficiency as the very best electric car or better. I babied it to work and got 6.7mpkw. Model 3 gets 4-5mpkw. Series hybrids ARE electric cars but the gas engine is not connected to a drive train at all. The gas engine is a generator only. It’s lighter than a full EV and in gas mode gets 40+mpg. And on top of that it’s not slow and has instant torque because again its propulsion is electric. Tires aren’t an issue and the reliability of the car has proven to be fantastic. If you know what car I’m talking about or have one then you know exactly what I’m talking about.
That's awesome. How long have you had it for, I'm curious what the regular maintenance has been like?
@@TheSAHDLife I’ve had it for a year now. I’ve filled up the gas tank 2 times this summer and I’ve done 1 oil change. The gas tank only holds about 7 1/2 gallons. I get about 300miles on a tank of gas and the manufacturer suggests an oil change every 2 years! Best car I ever bought
@@TheSAHDLife also the gas tank is stainless steel so no worries about it rusting with little gas being used.
I would love to have a Tesla If I could afford one as for the battery I am sure the future Solid state batteries will be able to replace current batteries.
I know, me too. I think they'll be dropping a new Model Y soon will be interesting to check out!
Agreed - Incentives are nation specific. And EV technology improvement is a global tsunami. The critical bit - is to buy (the minimum) of what you need for now and do not invest (big amounts) for another 2-3 years! Resale values bad? Play that to your benefit. In 2023 I bought a 2012 Toyota Hybrid - The Lexus CT200h - which is a Prius with a luxury interior. The original Hybrid battery was failing. This is a perfect reason for buying it - when you know a good workshop specialist in Hybrid Battery replacements. For long distances we have our V8 VX Toyota Landcruiser. For "fun" I have my Mercedes S-class, E-class and G-Wagon - for small mileages on these 35-40 year old cars.
That sounds like a nice little lineup. We have finally decided to get a Tesla Model 3 base model as we get the maximum incentives + referral savings which is over $10,000 off the MSRP. This plus the gas savings this car is a crazy value when compared to the features you get compared to the competition. It works for us based on our driving needs. I guess it's hard for people to buy for what they need as opposed to what they want. This is a compromise for me... I WANTED the AWD model but I don't need it, so we save $14,000 since it's 10k more and we wouldn't qualify for another 4k rebate on that more expensive model.
Honestly, I wouldn't buy anything other than a Japanese car, and Toyota and Honda are right there for me. Even Nissan are getting better without Ghosn there. But PHEV, Toyota has the upper hand I think, although Mitsubishis look good, and Australia loves them.
I'm kind of right there with you... I hear great things about Lexus but they seem a little out of range financially though I really haven't looked into it. My folks and best bud have Mitsi phevs and are happy with them... Who knows what the resell will be like on 5+ years though. Will anyone want them? I wouldn't want a 2019 Outlander PHEV really... The range would be so bad. My folks is a 2022 with a battery range of about 40kms... My friend just got a 2024 and says he gets 80-90 per charge but he's a bit of an exaggerater. They say online it only gets 61. That's still 50% more range in just two years though.
Very great and informative video. Thanks a lot.
Thanks for the comment, I appreciate it! 👊
Everyone talks about how annoying oil changes are. Most people change their oil once a year and maybe two. But on you do spend more time charging your vehicle even if it takes less than 20 minutes to charge each time.
Yeah plugging it in might get annoying but at least you can do it at home. Oil changes ARE annoying as we still do it at the dealer (for warranty purposes) and that can take a couple hours. But yeah it's only a few times a year. Gas cars are still awesome and get us around for a pretty reasonable price.
Engine servicing vs EV.
Here is France an annual service costs about €450 for our Peugeot Diesel engine. Our Tesla costs the same for tyres every two years.
I think the most relevant issue is the EV tech being out dated over time, whereas engines haven’t changed much over the last 30 years.
Yeah that's an interesting point. My wife was wondering why anybody would want to lease a vehicle last night, and my thought was that while an eevee would be nice right now for fuel savings but in 3 to 4 years there might be SSD batteries out which could be a huge game changer. Feels like we're in a very transitional stage right now so it's tough to invest in fully. They're still quite expensive here in Canada anyway. We don't quite have as many diesels as you do in Europe so we're stuck with the gas ice engines.
@@TheSAHDLife The diesel thing has been a huge scam. There are very few and select reasons for why anyone would need a diesel engined car in Europe but when you see the number of small diesel cars around, it’s astonishing.
I drew a comparison between servicing a diesel car for two years here in France (about €900) and tyres every two years for an ev (about €800-900). I think the biggest reason for why anyone would need to hold off while battery technology changes (it probably always will) is likely obsolescence. I’m looking at selling our 3yr old Model 3 (facelifted this year and with a new battery) and buying a PHEV as I think it will be more appropriate while the EV world develops.
@LysanderLH that's an interesting take. I appreciate you sharing 👊 sure is tough figuring out what to do. Which plug-in would you get?
@@TheSAHDLife the answer to that question currently eludes me. If I sold the Model 3 and the Peugeot, that might achieve €50k. Like it or not, I seem to keep cars for three years or less, so if I approach it with that in mind, the worst that could happen would be an annoyance for a couple of years. The Model 3 has been an annoyance for three years and the likelihood of me ever buying another diminishes with every comment from Musk.
I think i’m after a phev SUV eg. size of a Volvo xc60, Polestar with comfort, quietness, smoothness and efficiency. Something that wafts about effortlessly and which doesn’t handle like a barge. Volvo troubles me due to reliability and bizarre devaluation.
Road conditions, elevation and terrain affects range for EVs which contributes to range anxiety.
Thus Plug in Hybrid or
Hybrid is still more robust and reliable as compared to full EVs.
That's definitely something I wonder about. We still haven't committed to one yet... though I lean towards EV for us since we do 99% of our driving around town and could plug in every night.
In a perfect world we'd have a bigger hybrid for family trips and a small EV for scurrying around town.
I got a phev as charging infrastructure is bad where I am from. The only negative is that I'm forced to top up the fuel every 3 months as it goes out of date. I pretty much drive 99% of the time in ev mode apart from when the car makes me burn old fuel. Ev side of the car is awesome and I wish I went full ev
That seems mildly annoying about the gas... so how do you burn it out fast? Just drive around with the AC on?
Yeah that's interesting... I've often wondered if I would be in that same boat, wishing for full EV too.
@@TheSAHDLife I got the Mitsubishi Outlander, and it requires 20L (200km) of fresh fuel every 3 months (in a 55L tank). So at least it's not a full tank. So in regards to how to burn it, I just make a point of not plugging it in when I get the 1st warning on my console, and then always drive it in "Charge mode" which runs the engine. I sometimes use it as an excuse for a weekend trip to go up or down the coast. But at the end of the video you make a great point about re sale value, so I figure the money I'm losing in having to refuel every 3 months will probably be offset by the lesser depreciation.
We debating Tesla 3 vs prius. My wife has driven 2006 and 2014 Prius so familiar and trust Toyota. I just got quote on 240v installation in garage today $3000🤦🏼♂️. Prius will prob make more sense. Tesla insurance will go up $60/mo as well.
Yeah that's a lot of money to get into one and have the full EV experience right? I think it also depends on how much time you spend in the vehicle. The long run savings on the EV and the comfort and experience of the ride could be worth it depending on your lifestyle. But I think the Prius Prime would be pretty sweet too. Seems like a good choice!
Model 3 RWD 2024 is currently less than 50k CAD with the gov't incentives. Very attractive honestly, esp. that no car thieves are looking for them. Also, social factors such as my wife not really liking the idea of working really hard just to drive a taxi car model. It's understandable to a certain extend. Plus, Toyota dealerships and their games are really off-putting in choose a Toyota. Good video btw, as it is the current headache I'm having. (Currently leading towards a Model 3 OR wait for the newly refreshed Model Y)
Haha I love that about working hard just to afford a taxi. Hilarious. And yeah I kind of see the point too. She's not wrong.
My problem is that while the Model 3 RWD is pretty awesome, when you drive the AWD it's just SO much better. But then it bumps you out of the extra incentives etc... I wish my brain could be content with the RWD one but where we live it rains a lot, snows sometimes, and has tons of hills. I think if I didn't have those things to worry about I could consider it.
I'm also excited to see the redesigned Y. It SHOULD be out later this year or the beginning of next year right?
Yeah the Toyota games eh... you can't even test drive the Prime's since they never have any in as they all seem to sell so fast, or is that just a tactic? lol. We're still on 1 car waiting to figure out what to do. Car loans still aren't cheap either at the moment.
If you had to buy something today what do you think it would be? If we did, it might be a 8 seater Highlander hybrid? We really want that extra space. Ugh I don't know what we'd get hehe.
My understanding is hybrids are MUCH more likely to catch fire then either PHEVs or EVs.
Really? I hadn't heard that. Yeesh. Nothing like driving around and you know your car CATCHES FIRE 😱
Battery also costs 15-30k to replace
Yeah that's bonkers!!! It seems on average they last for a very long time with minimal degradation. I mean even at 80% battery which is usually like 10 years later that is still lots of range for around town. I wouldn't want it as my main vehicle though.
I bought a 2024 Prius, gives me 52 mpg and love it!
That's awesome. I really like those. A lot of people who comment have been team EV but that Prius just seems like it would be a great vehicle to have. Did you have to wait long to get it?!
@@TheSAHDLife No, I was looking at a GR 86 but the the interior was boring. I like the interior of Prius more. No waiting, someone did not want the Prius Limited so I was lucky.