Wow, you are right! I would even say that the mending rune of the death prince is like a fusion of the sun and moon. From the look of it, it could be a radiant moon having an eclipse on their own with the black part in the middle. And the two halfs that they are made of also resemble a crescent moon with sun rays coming out of it. Just like how Those who live in Death are a fusion of life and death.
Goldmask's rune makes everyone equal by granting blessings to All rather than just the Gods and the Golden Order. Dung Eater's rune makes everyone equal by inflicting the Omen curse upon everyone, causing them all to be reborn as Omens and thus no one can look down on anyone else.
mm, not exatly. Dung Eater's rune makes everyone cursed, wicth means when you die, you will not reborn in the erd tree or as living death, but you are damned to be a spirit in eternal pain, the spirits that Roderika hear around the dung eater when he invades the roundtable hold
@@danielecattaneo6908 No. It's called the Mending Rune of the Fell Curse. The Omen are victims of the Fell Curse. It's not suffering as spirits, it's being reborn as Omens.
@@A_real_Wizard The rune says that the next generation will be born as omens, so the people born before the establishment of the dung eater's rune will not reborn as omens. Also when the dung eater curses his victims estracting theyr souls from theyr anus (the reason why is called dung eater) theyr souls become spirits that never reborn because are not able to reach the erdtree, so they will never find peace (as we know by one roderika dialoge). The same sake will be extended to everyone. For this reason doesn't make sense that the dung Eater's mending rune that will made the new world as he wish includes being able to reborn.
@@A_real_Wizard Read the description of the "seebed curse", it clearly explain how the curse of the dung eater works. Also the abjective "fell" means "deadly". It makes sense for Margit, because he was a powerfull warrior during war and he kills turnisheds preventing them to reach the elden ring. While for the dung eater's curse doesn't make sense, I think it's a translation error. (For exemple in the italian translation it says "the insulting curse"). The dung eater curse is not based on the fact that is deadly. There is no thing as "fell omens" but just omens. It is an abjective given to Margit for the reasons above. As you noticed in elden ring they like to give nicknames to the main characters.
They're also the only two tarnished that are stated to be grace-given due to their visions, like actual divine inspiration - unlike gideon's yearning for knowledge, fia's religious desire for peace and hoarah's determination to reclaim he crown - they're the only two actual visionaries of the tarnished cast!
@@sfh7132 By visionaire i refer to factual information about them having VISIONS of their ideal order, as stated by in-game descriptions. Fia can ENVISION a new order, that's why she can make a mending rune, but her story does not start with her receiving a VISION of it
@@farcr8563 Fia has what you said. You just didn't see it ;-) She Sees the problem. sees the future and knows how to make it happen. She attracts many real heroes, not by her body but by her vision. How can you imagine a nonnvisionaire can make a mending rune? Fia Knows exactly what she is doing and knows the result exactly. You got to give her credit.
All of the story that happens in the game is written by fromsoft. GRRM only wrote the historical lore and worldbuilding (the characters and areas that came hundreds of years before the current game).
Goldmask, wearer of the sun shaped mask, discovers brilliant golden ring Dung Eater, wearer of the sun chain medallion, births a reviled curse Its like the two endings of Solaire’s quest, in DS1, where in one he goes mad after being latched onto by a sunlight maggot, thinking hes finally found his own sun, succumbing to it and going hollow after death, vs his initial disappointment and near readiness to give up, but he pushes through to the kiln of the first flame, faces Gwyn, Lord of Sunlight, and acquires the soul of light, linking the flame in his time, finding his own sun. There are many parallels, the conceit in thinking theyve solved their problem with dungy and maggot, leading to death, the rune amounting to perpetuating the status quo but this time everyone is cursed, while solaire thinks his quest is complete but is mad and dies so nothing really changes, and his flame goes unkindled. Goldmask discovers his order is founded on a lie, but makes it to the end and discovers a brilliant rune in the process, sacrificing his life to make things better, but ultimately to little avail, as the cycle will simply go on, while solaire faces gwyn, links the flame, sacrificing himself to make things better, but ultimately perpetuates the sinful cycle gwyn started with his first sin. To tie it all up, they all share one peculiar symbol: The Sun.
This is a nice analysis, but it's worth mentioning that Elden Ring doesn't function on cycles like DS. The natural course of the flame is to fade, and rekindling it is only delaying the inevitable. But the Lands Between have no direct parallel to that. If anything, the relationship is flipped: the Elden Ring and its Order are eternal by nature, and instead it's mortals that are fickle, inevitably ushering in new ages of great change by force. Goldmask's Order would be very different from Marika's, like hers was from Placidusax's.
@@dean_l33 ouroboros as they're symbolically called. Mindless consumption or WorldEater, similar to Alchemy's symbolism of a *Lion Devouring a bleeding Sun.*
Made me think of something: If humans (Dungeater, Fia, and Goldmask) could produce a Rune that could alter the fate of the world, could that provide an explanation for the creation of Radagon’s Rune (the Lattice shaped Rune)? Also interesting note is that Radagon’s Scarseal states it is an Elden Rune, not a Great Rune. Could it be that a human who becomes Elden Lord is capable of producing a Rune that does not require their death? Kind of a ramble but it is interesting how Runes are made in Elden Ring
one should consider the difference between the current one and the farum azula one, that show elden rune (beside destine death) as being removed and at least two as being added so is possible that anyone enlighted by grace could create their own elden rune, their deaths probably isn't a desireable outcome as then they could embed it on the elden ring unless someone else do it for them
An Elden Lord is a human, after all. By spitting out your knowledge, understanding and essence, you sever a big chunk of what literally makes-animates you. Radagon is an empyrean. Empyreans are basically God candidates(above demigods, who are in turn above humans). As an empyrean, Radagon also successfully became a god. Being a god gives you the ability to split the essences of the Elden ring(severance of destined death)without dying in the process. It is however your essence that you sever, so even a God has a limit(aka the Shattering).
To be honest, I think we should be asking more questions about the sun in this world. We already know that stars are a bit wacky and concerning, and that amber stars are special in some way. But I feel likes no one discusses how one star is far closer than all the others… and how it looks far more amber than blue. Not to mention the symbolism with trees and sunlight. I think you could even argue that Erdtrees require sunlight, given how the minor erdtree growing closest to its parent is dead (like a sapling that perished in its parent’s shade). Plus, in our world, the sun is the origin of all life. Sounds a lot like the greater will tbh. Ranni’s plan to cut off the greater will also involves an eternal night. In other words, the key to blocking the greater will’s influence doesn’t have anything to do with the erdtree, at least not directly. It’s essentially a cosmic battle, and the sun - maybe the erdtree’s sustaining source - seems to be its main target. You could also probably explain the eclipse a lot more easily by connecting the sun with the greater will. Maybe the sun is even the “Elden Star” the greater will sent long ago. I guess the only wrench in this theory is the “sun realm shield,” which describes how the sun was clearly important to a pre-erdtree civilisation. But we don’t really know when the Elden Star and Elden Beast arrived. Maybe there was even an age of more direct rule by the greater will, where the sun itself rather than a secondary light source was its main symbol. At any rate, my specific theories are probably a bit too speculative and unsubstantiated. But I think it’s safe to say it’s weird how little the sun is mentioned (e.g. in comparison to the moon and stars) - especially considering its prominence in the sky. By all accounts, it should be incredibly important to Elden Ring’s cosmology. But it’s almost like something wants it to be forgotten - or maybe, it wants that for itself. “The erdtree is the source of all light and life. Do not worry about that yellow orb behind the curtain.”
This is something Ive been thinking about a lot lately and you put it perfectly. I think your theory is spot on. I also dont think the seat of the sun is a wrench to the theory but rather supports it. The sun being important pre erdtree makes perfect sense, if we think of the sun being the original manifestation of the greater will, until it poured its cosmic energy into the Erdtree in an attempt to gain more control over the world.
In my headcanon, The Gold Mask wears the sun on his face because it’s what everyone will see, meanwhile The Dung Eater wears it on his chest because the symbol rests deep within his heart.
I've always looked at the Dung Eater as a corrupted version of Solaire from Dark Souls. Instead of showing up to aid and guide you during hard times, he shows up to murder and desecrate you.
Most shocking thing in Elden Ring is that some people watched the Dung Eater and were unironically like; "This is it, the Good Ending." Gives me conniptions.
When i was going through the 3 endings for trophy i was like dung eater, come here! His is the most annoying one to complete so i wanted it out of the way
Goldmasks Gold mask is not the sun it’s a sunflower. There’s an item in the game that, is a sunflower that faces minor trees, instead of the sun and The item description practically state that
I'm still wondering what the motivation of the Greater Will truly is, it doesn't make sense that the gods would allow someone like Dung Eater to be able to mend the elden ring and cause such chaos while at the same time allowing the path of perfect order via Goldmask. Maybe Marika had no idea what she was doing.
Marika has no input. She is incapacitated. The Greater Will wants the elden ring restored and a new or mended order established. The undead being accepted, everybody in the world being born an omen, the removal of the fickle interference of gods, all perfectly acceptable options to the Greater Will, because it reestablished an order. The only paths that seem opposed to this are Ranni and the Frenzied Flame. Abandoning the path of order and allowing life to chart its own course, or burn it all to cinders leaving nothing but ash where memories once dwelled.
My take is that the Greater Will simply doesn't HAVE motivations. The Outer Gods are more like cosmic forces than sentient deities. The Greater Will is Order itself, and by sending down the Elden Ring to establish Order in the Lands Between, its job is done. As long as Order continues, the specifics don't matter to it.
@@66maybe66 You are right. Many fans thinks that the Greater will is interested of how the elden ring is used, but is not the case. It just want the elden ring to be there. Also the elden beast fight arena can suggest that the greater will has many erdtree in different universes, so what happens to one of theme is not important.
@@66maybe66oh that makes sense actually, The Greater Will is a force of order, The Formless Mother is a force of evil, the Scarlet Rot is a force of destruction and perversion, The Frenzied Flame is a force of chaos, and so on.
@@jasoniusthegreat5584I think the outer gods are outside of such feeble notions of humans as morality they just have their own agenda and could not care about people other than it fits in their goals just like a human could not care less for an ant colony routines
That's cool and all, but there was a keyword you missed. Dung-eater "used to" be guided, and gold ask still is. It's a symbol of his past life, not what he represents now
They have similar journeys, symbolics, and base motivations, yes, this is true. They both are inspired by the sun. They both want answers for why everything is wrong. They both wander the Lands Between, specifically near the Erdtree. But their goals and methods are what defines them. Dung Eater spreads a curse, with the goal of causing mass suffering for everything that lives. In this, he hopes to achieve a state where suffering no longer exists - even though everyone would be miserable in comparison to how things are now, the point is that in the new reality, miserable would become normal, acceptable, tolerable. It might sound noble, striving to "eliminate" strife by reducing it to normality, but it's still quite f*cked up in execution, and nonetheless does nothing to ease ANYONE'S suffering. He's a chemical warfare terrorist, and wants to rewrite DNA so that everyone suffers equally. He wants to upload a mega virus to everyone's computers so that everyone is suffering terrible lag, connection, and pop-up ads equally, with no exception. He wants to sh*t on the internet, and make hell reality. Gold Mask seeks to gather enlightenment and knowledge - to find the information he needs to develop a software patch to the Golden Order and the Elden Ring. He understands that there's something wrong with the system, and so he wants to isolate the problem and fix it. To this end, he looks into the Erdtree itself, the 'hardware' for the Elden Ring and the Golden Order, and he notices... _something_ not quite right. When the player reveals that Radagon is Marika, it all clicks for him (gods are unfairly cheating the system, for one thing), and he starts developing the bug fix. He realizes then that the server needs to shut down so that the patch can be applied (i.e. the Erdtree must burn and later regrow), which upsets Corhyn immensely, who is very paranoid that the system might just get abandoned and cancelled. Goldmask doesn't give a sh*t about upset consumers though, finishes the bug fix patch, and then T poses on the old janked system to assert dominance. He fixed what was wrong, and what he made is superior - more balanced, less buggy. The player then installs the patch for him, since Goldmask was burnt out and needed a nap. TL;DR Dung Eater wants to ruin everything, put inflict an equitable amount of suffering onto everyone. He's like Syndrome - if everyone is super, no one will be. Gold Mask wants to make the best patch update since kingdom come. He's a dedicated bug fixer and patch developer for a computer system - only, he's making a bug fix patch for the Elden Ring and Golden Order. He wants to disable the advantages for the privileged, and otherwise balance things out.
@@sumboyuknow9764 I mean, I don't think Goldmask has a saviour complex. The lad is just a monk and scholar of the Golden Order, knows that sh*t ain't quite right, and wants to fix it. Coincidentally, the Golden Order wasn't a completely atrocious system. Goldmask knows how to fix some of the major flaws, and that will conveniently result in a fairer, more just world. I kinda see him as a revolutionary. He wants to fix things. He was a major figure in the Golden Order. He realized that the Erdtree had to be burnt and fully supported it, thus also recognizing all the prophecies of fire that various prophets witnessed - all of which majorly horrified Corhyn, who was a fanatic follower of Goldmask until that point. Honestly, Goldmask is up there in terms of being utterly based. Acknowledges flaws, agrees they should be fixed, quietly supports the people who can do it, and refuses to elaborate to anyone asking questions.
Thank you so much for the subtitles I greatly struggle with picking out words and pronunciation, especially when I’m listening to someone who has an accent vastly different to my own so I greatly appreciate it This is nothing against you by the way, sounds and words just blend together in my brain sometimes (autism thing) and I can’t always tell what you’re saying so it’s really nice to be able to read alongside listening so I can actually understand ;-;
Goldmask jus likes the sun and dungman jus found a furnace visage when he got lost and is now angry that ppl didnt believe him ablut the shadow realm and the weird things he saw there
Excess of body vs excess of intellect - absolutely brilliant... one is hedonic and chaotic, the other rigid and unchanging. The temple vs the wilderness. Crystal vs stone (which is my personal theory regarding seath) brilliant...
Both of them have endings that depict the most "equality" For Goldmask, eveyone is raised to a god-like state of being, making the notion of anyone being more powerful or holy, irrelevant. For Dung Eater, everyone is cursed and tortured, ravaged and corrupted, making the notion of anyone being unworthy or defiled, irrelevant. You may think that still, Goldmask's ending is clearly superior, and that might be true, but you would find that as time goes on, both of these ages, the endings these characters present, would both slowly move towards a center equilibrium. In Goldmask's age, everyone would gradually become so enlightened like Goldmask, where every shares the same thoughts and actions, until there's really no sense of individuality. Everyone would just stand around, motionless, probably similar to things before Dark Souls began, just Arch Trees and Dragons existing, with nothing going on. Likewise, Dung Eater's age would be just as horrible as you would imagine, probably worse. However, Dung Eater was right about one thing, even if it's not their intention: if everyone is (eventually) cursed and doomed, well then, nobody is singled out to be subjected to more suffering and cruelty. You can't point out or punish someone as being rotten, foul, or deformed, if *everybody* is like that. So, this would create and overwhelming sense of community and cooperation, since everyone would share the burden of the Omen curse, they would seek comfort in one another mlre than they would lash out and fight each other. Perhaps, with this grand unity, they would discover new ways to treat problems like the nightmares that plague them, or their spirits being corrupted, something that the Golden Order didn't even try or consider fixing, instead just shoving them away to suffer helplessly.
Just saying, dung eaters ending will probably just make a culture like the hornsent, and those with better horns will be elevated. I like the idea but realistically it doesn't make sense.
I kind of see them as symbols of the chosen undead in the original dark souls. One who lights the flame and worships its light, trusting its guidance. And the other who plunges into darkness in pursuit of their own destiny.
because of fromsoft games i got a deeper connection with the (heraldic) sun symbol. my grandfather had a clock with the pendelum being a heraldic sun which makes this personal connection stronger, these games just cemented what was always there. solaire, dung eater and goldmask are in the guidance of the sun in a sol invictus sense, fully devoting their being to their cause...just like jesus christ which was based on sol invictus. in bloodborne ludwig does the same but with the moon so not quite the same. but they all are, at the core, goodhearted fools (fool in a jungian, archetypal sense) which i can highly relate with. these games are so beautifui for that every person connects with different aspects of the lore, characters and symbols.
This is why they both possess similar Symbolism.* For them to have similar symbology in the context for your sentence they would both require studying symbols. Symbolism....symbolism
This strongly reminds me of Georges Bataille's "Solar Anus" essay. "Each thing seen is the parody of another". The grand and sweet and mathematically tidy ascetic & the abject wanton torturer find a common principle, and a common symbol.
The only difference is one is a prick who kills my favorite character so I put him in endless agony and the other is a cool T posing guy with a nice mask
I think The Greater Will simply just wants order, not any specific order, but just something there, that’s why he doesn’t care if Dung Eater or Goldmask become elden lord, he just wants the ring back together because that is what gives worlds order, he doesn’t care who is lord of it, or what they do with it, as long as it is there. That’s just my theory.
@@jasoniusthegreat5584 But, in age of stars for example, elden ring falls apart. But based on what we know, stars do create primordial form of order through their natural cycles.
I had played Hollow Knight just before Elden Ring, and it’s got this goofy dung beetle boss in it. So with that in mind and the Sun medallion, I got my hopes up that Dung Eater would be this game’s Solaire. 😅
I think for the dung eater it's implied that he "once" saw the guidance grace but chose to leave it after all of the eardtree is the source of the two fingers connection to the lands between then why would they want the dung eater to starve it to death
Dung Eater was by far the most interesting character in the game for me. Noble reasons made him unleash his wrath upon the world and his ultimate goal would end up creating a more equal society than one ruled by deities and undeath.
Some of the worst things imaginable have been done with the best intentions. Is preferential treatment of some and the excommunication of others,truly worth the demise of all in the name of “equality”? No. I’d rather let the world burn to the fires of Chaos than be cursed due to actions not of my own.
@@P.W.N.ed_9000 Oh for sure, not saying he's a hero. He's a bad, vengeful guy that wants to watch the world burn, and he has a great reason driving him. That's what makes him interesting. His vile deeds aside, there's a bit more than just "demise of all" in the name of "equality". It's more about making Gods more like humans than exterminating humans. Yes, everybody would become deformed because of the Omen Curse and that would be bad for the next generation in short term but long term being an Omen could just become the norm, or the next step in evolution, just as we are. I don't remember anything citing the downsides of being an Omen with the exception of visual appearance and prejudice. And we now live in a world where there's no gods and death is eternal. I might've gotten some things wrong, haven't played the game in a while.
@@Ocean5ix I’m pretty sure in dung eaters ending everyone’s soul gets “defiled” before they die, which is described as the most agonizing thing imaginable. So a bit more than just turning into omens
Is the sun a star in Elden Ring though? The Elden Beast is similar to the star-creatures but I don't recall it being associated directly with the celestial body of the sun, only indirectly through the overall theme of gold, light and so on.
When I saw the sun medallion of the dung eater it reminded me of solaire and I immediately role played as him because the dung eater is everything that solaire is not 😢
I doubt the greater will wanted to risk someone like dung eater to repair the elden ring considering he stood for what the greater will hated and cast out only to be seen as blasphemous. But I guess that the greater will was so desperate for some kind of change that it was willing to let that potential age come into fruition because even that is better than stagnation to them.
Uhm so u think that armour dung eater has is one he wants it seems he is fused too it as a punishment and the sun is just nailed too em as too show who did this too him do u see all the white holes on it that’s probably some kinda natural nails and becouse death can only happen thru the wills he will be suffering forever
Yes they both produce a ring that's it . They are not the same gold mask repairs immortality. Dung eater curses the world into eternity into a dim and dark future. Gold masks ring is bright and seemingly good .
The rune of death kind of looks like a sun too, doesn't it? With the feet of the centipede being rays of the sun.
Rune of death or mending rune of death ?
Im confused because rune of death have a symbol of opposing marika rune of life so im not sure
@@bara3526 definitely the mending rune, which I'd suggest is an eclipsed sun surrounded by the centipede if you want to fit it in here
Wow, you are right!
I would even say that the mending rune of the death prince is like a fusion of the sun and moon.
From the look of it, it could be a radiant moon having an eclipse on their own with the black part in the middle. And the two halfs that they are made of also resemble a crescent moon with sun rays coming out of it.
Just like how Those who live in Death are a fusion of life and death.
Possibly a reference to the eclipse and how it is similar to a sun drained of color
The ending of mending rune of death is called the *dusk*born , and dusk happen at the sunset
Goldmask's rune makes everyone equal by granting blessings to All rather than just the Gods and the Golden Order.
Dung Eater's rune makes everyone equal by inflicting the Omen curse upon everyone, causing them all to be reborn as Omens and thus no one can look down on anyone else.
mm, not exatly. Dung Eater's rune makes everyone cursed, wicth means when you die, you will not reborn in the erd tree or as living death, but you are damned to be a spirit in eternal pain, the spirits that Roderika hear around the dung eater when he invades the roundtable hold
@@danielecattaneo6908 No. It's called the Mending Rune of the Fell Curse. The Omen are victims of the Fell Curse. It's not suffering as spirits, it's being reborn as Omens.
That's why Margit is known as the Fell Omen.
@@A_real_Wizard The rune says that the next generation will be born as omens, so the people born before the establishment of the dung eater's rune will not reborn as omens. Also when the dung eater curses his victims estracting theyr souls from theyr anus (the reason why is called dung eater) theyr souls become spirits that never reborn because are not able to reach the erdtree, so they will never find peace (as we know by one roderika dialoge). The same sake will be extended to everyone. For this reason doesn't make sense that the dung Eater's mending rune that will made the new world as he wish includes being able to reborn.
@@A_real_Wizard Read the description of the "seebed curse", it clearly explain how the curse of the dung eater works. Also the abjective "fell" means "deadly". It makes sense for Margit, because he was a powerfull warrior during war and he kills turnisheds preventing them to reach the elden ring. While for the dung eater's curse doesn't make sense, I think it's a translation error. (For exemple in the italian translation it says "the insulting curse"). The dung eater curse is not based on the fact that is deadly.
There is no thing as "fell omens" but just omens. It is an abjective given to Margit for the reasons above. As you noticed in elden ring they like to give nicknames to the main characters.
They're also the only two tarnished that are stated to be grace-given due to their visions, like actual divine inspiration - unlike gideon's yearning for knowledge, fia's religious desire for peace and hoarah's determination to reclaim he crown - they're the only two actual visionaries of the tarnished cast!
The greater will really saw dung eater and went "eh, better than nothing"
@@MarzaButTube "LET HIM COOK"
disgree. Fia is also a visioner. she envisoned a world where death born have equal rights. every visioner transforms his/her vision into mending rune
@@sfh7132 By visionaire i refer to factual information about them having VISIONS of their ideal order, as stated by in-game descriptions. Fia can ENVISION a new order, that's why she can make a mending rune, but her story does not start with her receiving a VISION of it
@@farcr8563 Fia has what you said. You just didn't see it ;-) She Sees the problem. sees the future and knows how to make it happen. She attracts many real heroes, not by her body but by her vision. How can you imagine a nonnvisionaire can make a mending rune? Fia Knows exactly what she is doing and knows the result exactly. You got to give her credit.
George rr Martin is such a meanie for making things confusing
As if Miyazaki doesn't do the same.
All of the story that happens in the game is written by fromsoft. GRRM only wrote the historical lore and worldbuilding (the characters and areas that came hundreds of years before the current game).
@オリ ヨルダン GRRM came up with the confusingly similar names though
So he do be a meanie
@@Hellion6325 George came up the the merikas tits line then dipped
All souls games are confusing and abstract
Goldmask, wearer of the sun shaped mask, discovers brilliant golden ring
Dung Eater, wearer of the sun chain medallion, births a reviled curse
Its like the two endings of Solaire’s quest, in DS1, where in one he goes mad after being latched onto by a sunlight maggot, thinking hes finally found his own sun, succumbing to it and going hollow after death, vs his initial disappointment and near readiness to give up, but he pushes through to the kiln of the first flame, faces Gwyn, Lord of Sunlight, and acquires the soul of light, linking the flame in his time, finding his own sun.
There are many parallels, the conceit in thinking theyve solved their problem with dungy and maggot, leading to death, the rune amounting to perpetuating the status quo but this time everyone is cursed, while solaire thinks his quest is complete but is mad and dies so nothing really changes, and his flame goes unkindled. Goldmask discovers his order is founded on a lie, but makes it to the end and discovers a brilliant rune in the process, sacrificing his life to make things better, but ultimately to little avail, as the cycle will simply go on, while solaire faces gwyn, links the flame, sacrificing himself to make things better, but ultimately perpetuates the sinful cycle gwyn started with his first sin.
To tie it all up, they all share one peculiar symbol:
The Sun.
This is a nice analysis, but it's worth mentioning that Elden Ring doesn't function on cycles like DS. The natural course of the flame is to fade, and rekindling it is only delaying the inevitable. But the Lands Between have no direct parallel to that. If anything, the relationship is flipped: the Elden Ring and its Order are eternal by nature, and instead it's mortals that are fickle, inevitably ushering in new ages of great change by force. Goldmask's Order would be very different from Marika's, like hers was from Placidusax's.
Cycle is like a snake. A snake that eat its own tail. Therefore it's our enemy. Kill the snake and break the cycle
@@dean_l33 ouroboros as they're symbolically called. Mindless consumption or WorldEater, similar to Alchemy's symbolism of a *Lion Devouring a bleeding Sun.*
Made me think of something:
If humans (Dungeater, Fia, and Goldmask) could produce a Rune that could alter the fate of the world, could that provide an explanation for the creation of Radagon’s Rune (the Lattice shaped Rune)?
Also interesting note is that Radagon’s Scarseal states it is an Elden Rune, not a Great Rune. Could it be that a human who becomes Elden Lord is capable of producing a Rune that does not require their death? Kind of a ramble but it is interesting how Runes are made in Elden Ring
I think bramble rune was always a part of the Ring, further proof that Radagon was always Marika.
one should consider the difference between the current one and the farum azula one, that show elden rune (beside destine death) as being removed and at least two as being added
so is possible that anyone enlighted by grace could create their own elden rune, their deaths probably isn't a desireable outcome as then they could embed it on the elden ring unless someone else do it for them
An Elden Lord is a human, after all. By spitting out your knowledge, understanding and essence, you sever a big chunk of what literally makes-animates you. Radagon is an empyrean. Empyreans are basically God candidates(above demigods, who are in turn above humans). As an empyrean, Radagon also successfully became a god. Being a god gives you the ability to split the essences of the Elden ring(severance of destined death)without dying in the process. It is however your essence that you sever, so even a God has a limit(aka the Shattering).
To be honest, I think we should be asking more questions about the sun in this world. We already know that stars are a bit wacky and concerning, and that amber stars are special in some way. But I feel likes no one discusses how one star is far closer than all the others… and how it looks far more amber than blue.
Not to mention the symbolism with trees and sunlight. I think you could even argue that Erdtrees require sunlight, given how the minor erdtree growing closest to its parent is dead (like a sapling that perished in its parent’s shade). Plus, in our world, the sun is the origin of all life. Sounds a lot like the greater will tbh.
Ranni’s plan to cut off the greater will also involves an eternal night. In other words, the key to blocking the greater will’s influence doesn’t have anything to do with the erdtree, at least not directly. It’s essentially a cosmic battle, and the sun - maybe the erdtree’s sustaining source - seems to be its main target.
You could also probably explain the eclipse a lot more easily by connecting the sun with the greater will. Maybe the sun is even the “Elden Star” the greater will sent long ago. I guess the only wrench in this theory is the “sun realm shield,” which describes how the sun was clearly important to a pre-erdtree civilisation. But we don’t really know when the Elden Star and Elden Beast arrived. Maybe there was even an age of more direct rule by the greater will, where the sun itself rather than a secondary light source was its main symbol.
At any rate, my specific theories are probably a bit too speculative and unsubstantiated. But I think it’s safe to say it’s weird how little the sun is mentioned (e.g. in comparison to the moon and stars) - especially considering its prominence in the sky. By all accounts, it should be incredibly important to Elden Ring’s cosmology. But it’s almost like something wants it to be forgotten - or maybe, it wants that for itself.
“The erdtree is the source of all light and life. Do not worry about that yellow orb behind the curtain.”
This is something Ive been thinking about a lot lately and you put it perfectly. I think your theory is spot on. I also dont think the seat of the sun is a wrench to the theory but rather supports it. The sun being important pre erdtree makes perfect sense, if we think of the sun being the original manifestation of the greater will, until it poured its cosmic energy into the Erdtree in an attempt to gain more control over the world.
Damn, Solaire isn't doing too well these days.
I heard he overdosed on humanity last week 😞
In my headcanon, The Gold Mask wears the sun on his face because it’s what everyone will see, meanwhile The Dung Eater wears it on his chest because the symbol rests deep within his heart.
epic rap battles of history,
funny Sun man,
VERSUS
stinky winky muncher
BEGIIIIN
the crap consumer
the turd toucher
the dookie delight
the fecal fingers
the poopy pie
the chocolate chomper
the anus alligator
"..."
-funny sun man
Average Sun fan vs Average Dung Enjoyer
The Ever Brilliant Goldmask.
I’m surprised that this short video is not 37 minutes long
I’m petitioning TH-cam rn
Goldmasks face is not the sun. It's the shining radiance of order.
Close enough!
True it’s the light of the Golden Order shown by the Erdtree- but this will all change come the DLC
Like a metaphorical Radagon and Marika alchemy rebis but through ideologies being in a way kindred spirits
I've always looked at the Dung Eater as a corrupted version of Solaire from Dark Souls. Instead of showing up to aid and guide you during hard times, he shows up to murder and desecrate you.
With the new shadow of the erdtree lore about the omens i think its like the dung eater is trying to get the crusible tree back mmmm
Most shocking thing in Elden Ring is that some people watched the Dung Eater and were unironically like; "This is it, the Good Ending."
Gives me conniptions.
It should not, it is just a game.
When i was going through the 3 endings for trophy i was like dung eater, come here! His is the most annoying one to complete so i wanted it out of the way
Nice conniptions reference
Its a kinda good intentions bad execution type idea.
I actually am with those people. Although, it's a tragic thing that happened to Boggart. He will be missed.
Goldmasks Gold mask is not the sun it’s a sunflower. There’s an item in the game that, is a sunflower that faces minor trees, instead of the sun and The item description practically state that
I cannot hear the word symbology without going back to Agent Smecker flipping out in Boondock Saints.
*symbolism*
Great movie. =)
My brain cannot process hearing SmoughTown voice for only a one minute interval; it intuitively expects more.
It's worth noting that Dung Eater's ring is made of horns, and the same can be said about the rays of sunlight around his black sun.
we know now that the greater will was basically a bunch of mumbo jumbo the fingers werent actually commicating with anything
"Praise the sun!"
WAIT A MINUTE THE MEDALLION DUNGEATER HAS LOOKS LIKE THE FACES OF THE GIANT FURNACES IN THE DLC!!!
maybe that has some kind of significance.
Google is very smart. Covering two thirds of the screen with immovable watermarks so you can't see anything for their shorts was a 200 IQ move.
"subscribe for longer videos" wins as the understatement of the year and it's still January
“So what’s the symbology there” -Detective from Boondock Saints
The Radiant Goldmask is literally said to be a halo
Greater will practically doesn't care what order is upon the world. They just need an Order, wheter it's cursed or holy, doesn't matter
Goldmask is just a good version of dagoth ur
wow, Im dumb, didnt see the parallels, didnt even think ''hey, kinda strange that both have a sun symbol''
Goldmask doesn't birth the his mending runes, he discovers it
I'm still wondering what the motivation of the Greater Will truly is, it doesn't make sense that the gods would allow someone like Dung Eater to be able to mend the elden ring and cause such chaos while at the same time allowing the path of perfect order via Goldmask.
Maybe Marika had no idea what she was doing.
Marika has no input. She is incapacitated. The Greater Will wants the elden ring restored and a new or mended order established. The undead being accepted, everybody in the world being born an omen, the removal of the fickle interference of gods, all perfectly acceptable options to the Greater Will, because it reestablished an order. The only paths that seem opposed to this are Ranni and the Frenzied Flame. Abandoning the path of order and allowing life to chart its own course, or burn it all to cinders leaving nothing but ash where memories once dwelled.
My take is that the Greater Will simply doesn't HAVE motivations. The Outer Gods are more like cosmic forces than sentient deities. The Greater Will is Order itself, and by sending down the Elden Ring to establish Order in the Lands Between, its job is done. As long as Order continues, the specifics don't matter to it.
@@66maybe66 You are right. Many fans thinks that the Greater will is interested of how the elden ring is used, but is not the case. It just want the elden ring to be there. Also the elden beast fight arena can suggest that the greater will has many erdtree in different universes, so what happens to one of theme is not important.
@@66maybe66oh that makes sense actually, The Greater Will is a force of order, The Formless Mother is a force of evil, the Scarlet Rot is a force of destruction and perversion, The Frenzied Flame is a force of chaos, and so on.
@@jasoniusthegreat5584I think the outer gods are outside of such feeble notions of humans as morality they just have their own agenda and could not care about people other than it fits in their goals just like a human could not care less for an ant colony routines
Golden Order or Shit Eating. They're two ends of the same stick. Yet some of you chose to eat shit.
The motherfuckin' sun, ya gotta praise it
I never noticed before, but that picture of Goldmask looks like he was heating up baked beans in hiss underwear at 3am and spilled it on tbe floor
That's cool and all, but there was a keyword you missed. Dung-eater "used to" be guided, and gold ask still is. It's a symbol of his past life, not what he represents now
I feel like after this DLC and we get more information on the Omen and the Crucible we might look at DungEater in a new light .
Once a great man of astora told me to praise the sun
Nobody talks about the sun being gone
Symbolism.
The word you were looking for is Symbolism.
"Symbology? Nice. No it's *symmmmbolism* ."
*OooOoh The ever brilliant Doo doo eater.*
When this popped up i rhought it was a full vid for a min
They have similar journeys, symbolics, and base motivations, yes, this is true.
They both are inspired by the sun. They both want answers for why everything is wrong. They both wander the Lands Between, specifically near the Erdtree.
But their goals and methods are what defines them.
Dung Eater spreads a curse, with the goal of causing mass suffering for everything that lives. In this, he hopes to achieve a state where suffering no longer exists - even though everyone would be miserable in comparison to how things are now, the point is that in the new reality, miserable would become normal, acceptable, tolerable. It might sound noble, striving to "eliminate" strife by reducing it to normality, but it's still quite f*cked up in execution, and nonetheless does nothing to ease ANYONE'S suffering. He's a chemical warfare terrorist, and wants to rewrite DNA so that everyone suffers equally. He wants to upload a mega virus to everyone's computers so that everyone is suffering terrible lag, connection, and pop-up ads equally, with no exception. He wants to sh*t on the internet, and make hell reality.
Gold Mask seeks to gather enlightenment and knowledge - to find the information he needs to develop a software patch to the Golden Order and the Elden Ring. He understands that there's something wrong with the system, and so he wants to isolate the problem and fix it. To this end, he looks into the Erdtree itself, the 'hardware' for the Elden Ring and the Golden Order, and he notices... _something_ not quite right. When the player reveals that Radagon is Marika, it all clicks for him (gods are unfairly cheating the system, for one thing), and he starts developing the bug fix. He realizes then that the server needs to shut down so that the patch can be applied (i.e. the Erdtree must burn and later regrow), which upsets Corhyn immensely, who is very paranoid that the system might just get abandoned and cancelled. Goldmask doesn't give a sh*t about upset consumers though, finishes the bug fix patch, and then T poses on the old janked system to assert dominance. He fixed what was wrong, and what he made is superior - more balanced, less buggy. The player then installs the patch for him, since Goldmask was burnt out and needed a nap.
TL;DR
Dung Eater wants to ruin everything, put inflict an equitable amount of suffering onto everyone. He's like Syndrome - if everyone is super, no one will be.
Gold Mask wants to make the best patch update since kingdom come. He's a dedicated bug fixer and patch developer for a computer system - only, he's making a bug fix patch for the Elden Ring and Golden Order. He wants to disable the advantages for the privileged, and otherwise balance things out.
Both are bad. I will never help a mass murderer nor someone with a savior complex.
@@sumboyuknow9764 I mean, I don't think Goldmask has a saviour complex. The lad is just a monk and scholar of the Golden Order, knows that sh*t ain't quite right, and wants to fix it.
Coincidentally, the Golden Order wasn't a completely atrocious system. Goldmask knows how to fix some of the major flaws, and that will conveniently result in a fairer, more just world.
I kinda see him as a revolutionary. He wants to fix things. He was a major figure in the Golden Order. He realized that the Erdtree had to be burnt and fully supported it, thus also recognizing all the prophecies of fire that various prophets witnessed - all of which majorly horrified Corhyn, who was a fanatic follower of Goldmask until that point.
Honestly, Goldmask is up there in terms of being utterly based. Acknowledges flaws, agrees they should be fixed, quietly supports the people who can do it, and refuses to elaborate to anyone asking questions.
Thank you so much for the subtitles
I greatly struggle with picking out words and pronunciation, especially when I’m listening to someone who has an accent vastly different to my own so I greatly appreciate it
This is nothing against you by the way, sounds and words just blend together in my brain sometimes (autism thing) and I can’t always tell what you’re saying so it’s really nice to be able to read alongside listening so I can actually understand ;-;
Almost like trees need the sun to survive.
Goldmask jus likes the sun and dungman jus found a furnace visage when he got lost and is now angry that ppl didnt believe him ablut the shadow realm and the weird things he saw there
Excess of body vs excess of intellect - absolutely brilliant... one is hedonic and chaotic, the other rigid and unchanging. The temple vs the wilderness. Crystal vs stone (which is my personal theory regarding seath) brilliant...
The sun hangs over Dumgeater's chest. But it is worn around the collar of his neck.
New fire giant boss of the dlc looks like a fusion between both except larger and with fire
Symbolism.
I hate Dan Brown for making people think 'Symbology' is a word.
@@Dunge0n you can, but symbols are used since the dawn of humanity. Don't be upset about something ancient.
@@PierreLucSex "Symbology? I'm sure the word you were looking for... is 'symbolism'... SYMBOLISM." - Special Agent Paul Maximilian Smecker
@@Dunge0n well, symbology should be plainly the rational study of symbols. Quite puffed up neologism if it is the case for Dan Brown, no doubt.
@@PierreLucSexits not should, but rather is btw
And the Player is just out here robbing boss corpses of their great runes lmao
Both of them have endings that depict the most "equality"
For Goldmask, eveyone is raised to a god-like state of being, making the notion of anyone being more powerful or holy, irrelevant.
For Dung Eater, everyone is cursed and tortured, ravaged and corrupted, making the notion of anyone being unworthy or defiled, irrelevant.
You may think that still, Goldmask's ending is clearly superior, and that might be true, but you would find that as time goes on, both of these ages, the endings these characters present, would both slowly move towards a center equilibrium.
In Goldmask's age, everyone would gradually become so enlightened like Goldmask, where every shares the same thoughts and actions, until there's really no sense of individuality. Everyone would just stand around, motionless, probably similar to things before Dark Souls began, just Arch Trees and Dragons existing, with nothing going on.
Likewise, Dung Eater's age would be just as horrible as you would imagine, probably worse.
However, Dung Eater was right about one thing, even if it's not their intention: if everyone is (eventually) cursed and doomed, well then, nobody is singled out to be subjected to more suffering and cruelty.
You can't point out or punish someone as being rotten, foul, or deformed, if *everybody* is like that.
So, this would create and overwhelming sense of community and cooperation, since everyone would share the burden of the Omen curse, they would seek comfort in one another mlre than they would lash out and fight each other.
Perhaps, with this grand unity, they would discover new ways to treat problems like the nightmares that plague them, or their spirits being corrupted, something that the Golden Order didn't even try or consider fixing, instead just shoving them away to suffer helplessly.
Just saying, dung eaters ending will probably just make a culture like the hornsent, and those with better horns will be elevated.
I like the idea but realistically it doesn't make sense.
legendary soundtrack
Horse shoe theory go brrrrr
Blessing of Despair is arguably a good ending. When everyone is stripped of grace, nobody is better than anyone
greater will doesnt want to die just yet, it makes mending runes for backup
One of the less obvious polar forces for thematic use. Absolute selflessness vs absolute selfishness
I know goldmask is a little sus but i wouldn't say he's REPULSIVE, damn 🥲
Repulsive is a reference to DE
@@Inshabael. woosh
I'm not repulsive, i'm just misunderstood.
Society, ugh.
The notorious kaka consumer
Yoooooooo you got some of that choochang?
I kind of see them as symbols of the chosen undead in the original dark souls. One who lights the flame and worships its light, trusting its guidance. And the other who plunges into darkness in pursuit of their own destiny.
One goes fist deep the other does gang signs take your pick
I miss our old sun bro
Dong Yeet-a my favourite hero
because of fromsoft games i got a deeper connection with the (heraldic) sun symbol. my grandfather had a clock with the pendelum being a heraldic sun which makes this personal connection stronger, these games just cemented what was always there.
solaire, dung eater and goldmask are in the guidance of the sun in a sol invictus sense, fully devoting their being to their cause...just like jesus christ which was based on sol invictus. in bloodborne ludwig does the same but with the moon so not quite the same. but they all are, at the core, goodhearted fools (fool in a jungian, archetypal sense) which i can highly relate with.
these games are so beautifui for that every person connects with different aspects of the lore, characters and symbols.
I have never meet gold mask unless it was with the guide
Dung eaters medallion looks alot like the furnace visages that thos fire golems drop in SoTE
Is it me or does the sun talisman (?) dung eater wears around his neck look kind of like a furnace visage?
Duality is a central theme in elden ring, so so many characters are mirrors of each other, I'm sure these parallels were intentional
solaires sun on his chest and dung eaters sun looks like the same thing
I saw Goldmask out in the wild and had no idea who he was, so I just hit him, then he disappeared.
The previous sun is the Fell star that got replaced by the golden order sun
This is why they both possess similar Symbolism.*
For them to have similar symbology in the context for your sentence they would both require studying symbols. Symbolism....symbolism
THE EVER BRILLIANT GOLD MASK 🗣️🗣️🔥🔥🔥👍💯💯🗣️🔥🗣️💯
This strongly reminds me of Georges Bataille's "Solar Anus" essay.
"Each thing seen is the parody of another".
The grand and sweet and mathematically tidy ascetic & the abject wanton torturer find a common principle, and a common symbol.
The only difference is one is a prick who kills my favorite character so I put him in endless agony and the other is a cool T posing guy with a nice mask
I never once saw the sun in the Lands Between, only the moon seems to be illustrated
One would wonder why Greater Will does not care which Tarnished will end up becoming Elden Lord.
I think The Greater Will simply just wants order, not any specific order, but just something there, that’s why he doesn’t care if Dung Eater or Goldmask become elden lord, he just wants the ring back together because that is what gives worlds order, he doesn’t care who is lord of it, or what they do with it, as long as it is there. That’s just my theory.
@@jasoniusthegreat5584 But, in age of stars for example, elden ring falls apart. But based on what we know, stars do create primordial form of order through their natural cycles.
@@MrUmbra-ts6sethe age of stars is entirely about blocking out the greater wills influence. The greater will doesn’t want this
I had played Hollow Knight just before Elden Ring, and it’s got this goofy dung beetle boss in it. So with that in mind and the Sun medallion, I got my hopes up that Dung Eater would be this game’s Solaire. 😅
I think for the dung eater it's implied that he "once" saw the guidance grace but chose to leave it after all of the eardtree is the source of the two fingers connection to the lands between then why would they want the dung eater to starve it to death
Dung Eater was by far the most interesting character in the game for me. Noble reasons made him unleash his wrath upon the world and his ultimate goal would end up creating a more equal society than one ruled by deities and undeath.
Some of the worst things imaginable have been done with the best intentions.
Is preferential treatment of some and the excommunication of others,truly worth the demise of all in the name of “equality”?
No.
I’d rather let the world burn to the fires of Chaos than be cursed due to actions not of my own.
@@P.W.N.ed_9000 Oh for sure, not saying he's a hero. He's a bad, vengeful guy that wants to watch the world burn, and he has a great reason driving him. That's what makes him interesting.
His vile deeds aside, there's a bit more than just "demise of all" in the name of "equality". It's more about making Gods more like humans than exterminating humans. Yes, everybody would become deformed because of the Omen Curse and that would be bad for the next generation in short term but long term being an Omen could just become the norm, or the next step in evolution, just as we are. I don't remember anything citing the downsides of being an Omen with the exception of visual appearance and prejudice. And we now live in a world where there's no gods and death is eternal.
I might've gotten some things wrong, haven't played the game in a while.
@@Ocean5ix I’m pretty sure in dung eaters ending everyone’s soul gets “defiled” before they die, which is described as the most agonizing thing imaginable. So a bit more than just turning into omens
woo smoughtown time (this is very very cool)
Could this tie in with fate? The sun is a star, after all
Is the sun a star in Elden Ring though? The Elden Beast is similar to the star-creatures but I don't recall it being associated directly with the celestial body of the sun, only indirectly through the overall theme of gold, light and so on.
When I saw the sun medallion of the dung eater it reminded me of solaire and I immediately role played as him because the dung eater is everything that solaire is not 😢
Dung eater ending confirmed as link to dark souls?
Would’ve thought age of death for sure
Praise the sun
I doubt the greater will wanted to risk someone like dung eater to repair the elden ring considering he stood for what the greater will hated and cast out only to be seen as blasphemous. But I guess that the greater will was so desperate for some kind of change that it was willing to let that potential age come into fruition because even that is better than stagnation to them.
Who’s gonna tell’em? 🙂↕️
I think goldmasks mask is supposed to look like his rune. They line up perfectly if you look at his body before picking up his mending rune
Praise the sun \[T]/
I wonder why you can kill Dung Eater but Goldmask simply disappears when attacked.
Uhm so u think that armour dung eater has is one he wants it seems he is fused too it as a punishment and the sun is just nailed too em as too show who did this too him do u see all the white holes on it that’s probably some kinda natural nails and becouse death can only happen thru the wills he will be suffering forever
One noble and one loathsome **
They are foil characters simple
I doubt the greater will gaved theme an ispiration, it couldn't care less what happens in the lands between.
Sunshine vs Sunshite
Yes they both produce a ring that's it . They are not the same gold mask repairs immortality. Dung eater curses the world into eternity into a dim and dark future. Gold masks ring is bright and seemingly good .
Praise the Sun!
26:40 first knee mentioned