Read more about the theory by @VanesaOJ & @ChusoMMontero here: www.reddit.com/r/Eldenring/comments/u4t8l9/new_theory_about_gideon_ofnir_and_how_he_knows/ Check out the thumbnail artist @kankan33333 & Jbird9270 in the description 🎨 Absolutely beautiful work! One quick note, the Gideon clip at the end is just a parody 😉 You can find it here: th-cam.com/video/xAgj74SmpPY/w-d-xo.html
Have you heard the story of the Homunculi? According to earth lore, in order to create a homunculus you have to use your “seed” among other gross things in a jar, this was a cheeky reference😂 I posted a video with history of homunculi tell me what you think, he says at one point “ homunculi are people of the stars” quite fitting considering Rannis position🤔 th-cam.com/video/u7BmmcByC5w/w-d-xo.html
I like to think that Gideon was on his way to steal the throne but realised Godfrey was there so tried to sneak back out, then we arrived just at the right time to catch him
Also his idea "yeah, let's just steal that uber-attack that Malenia used twice and use it too" was literally the dumbest idea ever. Description of Scarlet Aeonia suggests that each use of this incantation surrenders a little bit of user's personality to rot goddess, turning him slowly into a puppet. And then he's just like "yeah, let's fuckin goooo!"
@@Walker_96365 ehhh, there's difference in various godhood degrees. There's outer gods, almighty cosmic forces, then there their emissaries. Marika and Malenia could be a god's vessel, but Elden Beast was his primary emissary, who could dispose of failed "gods" if need arises. Maybe Gideon Ofnir thought that you can't kill such enemy. Of course, killing the outer gods themselves is out of questions, nobody even knows what they truly are.
It’s hilarious that you can one shot Gideon with inescapable frenzy, and it fits lord-wise. Man has so much knowledge that him being exposed to madness would have great effect
@Loki "Oh, look, a fallen Tarnished, unable to show even even the smallest amount of respect or restraint." "Please, leave me to my studies. You can go spar with Nepheli if you have such energy." "STOP WITH THE DAMN ROLLING! Ah, sorry, lost my temper, lad."
What would be even funnier and even more in character, would be if he wasn't even angry but just detested your lack of intelligence or just got severely disappointed
i want a mod that lets me replace the books and tools in Gideon's study with more appropriate object for Elden Lean. Strippers, cocaine, rolled up money and ghost guns just to name a few.
@@A_Black_Sheep94 everyone in the game still thought Godfrey wouldn't return though. Even if he is tarnished, the people in the Lands Between believed he gave up after the storm king
Something I find funny about the eye surcoat is where you find it: Rykard’s boss room. Which implies that the spy beat you there or was doing their own reconnaissance for Gideon and got eaten by Rykard.
When you get both medallions and go talk to Gideon about it, he says straight up that he doesn’t know what they lead to. He killed off that whole village out of mere curiosity about a medallion when he doesn’t even know what it does.
@@geniscladellas6165 he says something along the lines of “you want to know what that medallion does? So do I, friend. So do I.” And then later when you tell him it takes you to the Haligtree he thanks you for the intelligence and I think he might even give you a spell for it.
It basically means that it's something that lies outside of his intelligence network (spies/informants/maps/documents), he has an inkling of why the medallion is important and where it might lead but no concrete proof. It wasn't curiosity, it was following a thread to see where it leads
That and the fact that he was so gatekeep, gaslight, girlboss about us not being a true part of the roundtable until we've gotten one great rune while every shardbearer is still alive. He doesn't even meet his own criteria to be in the roundtable.
@@gublaman well technically there are more great runes than the ones that are obtained from shardbearers, (such as the mending runes) it’s very possible he got some kind of weak great rune and just considered it as strong as the rest
@@gublaman there are many Great Runes. Other than the demigods we killed, Marika has other "unwanted children" who are either missing demigods or the soulless demigods (like Godwyn). Vyke held two Great Runes and we do not know which ones are the ones he holds as it's obviously Great Runes we do not possess.
I don't understand why you would say he "Turns on us." There is one throne, Gideon says from the beginning that he seeks it. I feel like as a Tarnished, you know that you will eventually fight him, it's a temporary truce and was never meant to be a surprise. Hardly seems villainous.
He never really used villainous to describe his will to take the throne, though. Just that he massacred helpless villages and is always shady about everything. Always pretending to be nice and helpful while secretly plotting everyone's undoing. The player isn't innocent either since the game directly has you kill so many things/people in your quest for power.
Yeah, I don’t get why this is so hard for so many to understand. Every interaction before his fight was a sort of cold war between him & you, attempting subterfuge & steering the player to do his bidding, essentially clearing the path for him to attain more knowledge through your actions & incentivizing you to share your own knowledge with him.
I felt like Gideon is more of a Rival Character, especially considering how blurry the line between good and evil usually is in these games in a world of power games and wars it´s only natural for the pragmatic and resourceful to worm their way tot the top
It reminds me a lot of Oscar of Astoras cut questline, where he'd assault you in the Izalith shortcut and oppose your views, regardless of if you want to link the flame or not. FromSoft really has a thing for turning the guy who helps you from the start into someone who believes their best chance to save the world is stopping you.
yeah I always kind of viewed Gideon as a manipulator, using tarnished to do the work so he could then reap the reward like with Nepheli, sending her after Godrick after giving her the idea that if he became elden lord he would bring justice to the lands between, but as soon as she questions his orders he throws her away like she was nothing, I wouldn't be surprised if the village she talks about being destroyed in her infancy was done under the order of Gideon just like the Albinauric villiage same with the player Tarnished, pointing us the other Demi gods in hopes of us gathering more of the great runes to open the way, only for him to then attempt to kill us and take our place
Very Smart Interpritation although it is Often a Rarity, but It was so Obvious about his Character yet a lot of people missed this including myself, i just Thought he was some Old Bitch that needed me to Slay bosses in order to get some more Praise and get on his good side. Turned out to be the Whoreson that he always was. lol.
Uummm no one gonna comment on the ranni dialogue? Please tell me you made this genuine video and just snuck that joke in at the end. That’s NOT in the game.
I imagine Gideon let Godfrey past because he knows he couldn’t defeat him in his current state so he tries to kill you to get the power of your great runes to kill Godfrey
My guess is, Gideon probably realized at the last step, that the whole plan of making Tarnished marching their way to the throne, was actually a scheme from Marika to have her ex-husband to gather enough strength (by taking down friends/us and foe alike) to retake the throne and then unshackle their tide with the Greater Will. Other than Godrey, we Tarnished were probably never meant to be the Elden Lord, or at the very least we were just the last resort if Godfrey failed for whatever reason.
The bit about scarab beetles really lines up for me, considering the one right before omenkiller fight in Albunaric village leads you right to the boss and disappears so quickly
@@BeggarsNight yes they do run away from you in a pretty straightforward way but they often are quite purposely placed to lead you into traps. Although I feel this is just something the developers love to do as they've had the crystal lizards and whatever Bloodbornes version is called do the same thing in every game
By saying "Ensha got ahead of himself" he could merely mean that Ensha passed judgment on us prematurely. Unlikely he'd imply a later assassination attempt.
why does Gideon want the Medallion anyway. Its not like ne needs Malenias great rune to become Elden Lord and in the state Radahn is in, she's the strongest of the bunch
"When she was miniature and in your grasp.... Did ye... stick 'er in a jar?.... And did ye fill that jar with your Tarnished Seed." That shit was a crazy ass statement
Gideon having an odin reference is very fitting considering many Odin stories and portrayals also have him ruthlessly seeking knowledge, no matter the cost and collateral damage.
I think that the things the beetles collect are primarily knowledge, as we can see in the ash of war we can sometimes get from them. After they have collected enough (or get scared) they teleport back to Gideon with the knowledge balls, which he can decipher.
Maybe the scarabs' spheres of trash are actually filled with random items they gather. Gideon could go find them, extracting the ashes of war. It just happens we get to them first, even though he wanted the ashes for himself.
Pay close attention to Gideon’s helmet especially. From his demeanor and the way he looks at you he comes off as an owl looking for weakness in its prey his helmet is similar to the witch king in lord of the rings another overseer who stalks his pray before striking. Also like an owl Gideon is always watching and always seeing… you’ll never hear or see him coming until the very end
I know how evil of a character he is, with everything he did during our playthroughs but damn I swear whenever I hear him speak I wish we both could stay close comrades.
Turning Gideon's daughter, Nepheli Loux, into the new lord of stormveil after gideon was such a dick to her, is my favourite side quest ending. One of the few happy ones.
@@christopherjohnson2171 Even if the Elden ring community cannot agree on weapon tier lists of using summon, i love how we can all come together and agree that Seluvis can roundly go fuck himself
Perhaps the beetles aren’t exactly spies but more like gatherers, finding items and information (like weapon arts) to bring back to him for study. That’s why they drop it such things when killed.
Gideon's 'scepter of the all-knowing' states it's holding a pearl... But it doesn't look like a traditional pearl, it looks like fingers grasping a darker, grubbier sphere... Could it instead be holding a "pearl of knowledge", referring to the little tumbleweed things the scarabs are bringing him?
it also explains why they sometimes dont even have any items or weapons arts. they're all over and just searching for stuff. not only that, but all of the beetles around the glintstone key for the academy would serve to notify him if anyone managed to get inside.
@@GetBackToWorkSteve Dunno, the pearl could be a rapresentation of the cosmos, an other form of knowledge. Speaking about the elephant in the room, a globe in the staff is a synonymous of Power (i think that Gideon was a king).
That secret dialogue was actually made up by a guy on yt called UnusualCharacters. Well it got me too, gideon's voice here is too convincing but it's only a joke
Gideon being the true villain is very on brand for Soulsborne. A bit like Pontiff Sullivahn in DS3, who is the real villain of the game, but not the end boss, and how so many of the things going on in the world are directly connected to his ambitions and plots.
I love the comparisons to Pontiff Sullyvahn because the Pontiff is like if Gideon managed to succred whereas Gideon is what would happen if we encountered the Pontiff in the middle of his rise to power. I think the big difference between the two is that Sullyvahn understood that the power to rule means being a proactive mastermind which is how he was able to co-op with a monster such as Aldritch, meanwhile Gideon has no intentions of actively leading or taking visible steps that we see to accomplishing his goals until he sees it the most opportune moment. To me, Pontiff Sullyvahn is a dragon posing as a snake and Gideon is a snake posing as a dragon.
The one emotion Gideon felt when he interacted in some way with Marika was "fear". Juxtapose this with the emotion various NPCs ascribe to our main character, that of "bravery". We have fingers that do not waver when read but rather remain firm, resolute. Perhaps that's what makes us special even from other tarnished. We just aren't afraid. When Gideon said, "No man can kill a god, not even you," I think he was speaking more about himself.
So i'd just like to point out that Gideon doesnt actually execute the spells in game unless you've told him you defeated the shardbearer. Good example- the scarlet aeonia. A very common way to avoid having to deal with the spell in the Gideon fight is to just not tell him you beat her. His spells are directly correlated to the information you give him- he doesn't use spells you don't tell him about. That's why he gives you spells in exchange for information as well- its a direct trade.
You will miss out on some of the spells and incantations he can give you as rewards, but it is an option. Realistically, he isn't difficult if you press him, no matter what he's equipped with. Give him no breathing room and he dies expediently.
same as I said in a response to a different comment, I'm starting to think he has the ability to use remembrances from the Walking Mausoleums. How would he know if there were new things to take from the WMs? Well if only there were a tarnished who would take these shardbearers out then just come tell me he did :/
yeah but it was in fact something from reddit, more so a spanish streamer called ChusoMontero doing a blind lore hunting playthrought deduced how gideon was using the scarabs to spy on us in one of his streams, later on he made a post on reddit talking about exactly all this findings. It is somewhat upsetting that this guy doesnt credit Chuso or atleast mention him in anyway, because the stream he made weeks ago touches almost all the points in the video
"He's stalking us!" Also Tarnished: "Hey so here's what I learned about these bosses you sent me after" I believe he has an extreme monitoring system established throughout the world, but I don't think he needs to directly spy on you if you end up reporting back to him. It's the only way he learns these spells, after all. Still, the rest of it was nice.
@@davidbartholomew2634 Maybe he was keeping the illusion of establishing and partnership. Like he says he wants you to tell him everything you know even tho he knows it already. Also the Players version of the story could be seen different from his perspective, so maybe he is just double checking.
@@davidbartholomew2634 I think Lore wise before his non optional boss fignt, you the player have interacted more than you may actually have irl if that makes sense. Like in universe you go report to him no matter how many bosses you fight thus ensuring he will always learn the sorcerries and spells from defeated bosses and such.
I like to imagine that whenever we enter his study, Gideon goes full stormtrooper mode, trying to find something to focus on to look like he's as studious as he claims.
i love this, games always make you the center of atention with vague reasons, so having other tarnished and hearing about them makes it feel like your insignificant in the grander scheme and i love every minute of it
I was thinking the same thing.. actually going through the story and seeing how he always seems to be one step behind and in front of you … and when his lackey tried to kill me for the half of the medallion at round table I knew he was dirty
Dude that shit freaked me out the first time, traveled to the round table and was walking out of my room to the bathroom when I heard my character get hit and I ran back in like what the fuck is happening 😂
When looking at what Gideon does, I am forcibly reminded of what sir Vilhelm told us in Dark Souls 3. "Every secret must be unearthed. Such is the conceit of the self-proclaimed seeker of truth. But in the end, you lack the stomach. For the agony you'll bring upon yourself...". When Gideon realized the truth behind Marikas plan, he lacked the will to go through with it.
“A Tarnished cannot become Elden Lord” “Ok” _hands the title to Ranni_ “Wait no” Edit: Yes I know this joke isn’t Lore accurate, but it ms also funnier so shut up.
"elden lord? oh that was never the plan, i just really like ranni and she wanted to do some stuff with the moon or something. she's so cute when she wants to disrupt the pre-conceived religious order built up over centuries, isnt she? i love my wife."
you do know in that ending youre still elden lord right? she effectively replaces marika, you become her consort (consort of the goddess is elden lord)
@@cooperblackwell1392 Yes and no you become Lord but since the the influence of the Greater Will is gone the "Elden" part wouldn't really apply as for what title we SHOULD have... I'm partial to Lord of the Dark Moon
The way he gathers information is by us talking to him, he tells us where to find the Demi-gods and great runes and we come back to talk about their move sets and our battles with them. That’s why Gideon gets more spells the more Demi-gods you kill. He then decides to stop you not out of his own greed (as evident by the line “I know in my bones a tarnished cannot become Elden lord”) but because he learnt something about Marika that drove him that way, it’s the curse of the all-knowing. Some people have theorised that what he learns is that Marika created the Tarnished in a way that means they will try and fail to become Elden lord for eternity, torturing them again and again. And he tries to stop you because he doesn’t want to see you be tortured like that
The scarab theory is interesting! My Gideon theory is that his mixed motivations are another manifestation of the Golden Order’s broken, contradictory nature. Again and again, your attempts to do good result in tragedy. The guidance of grace leads you to Castle Morne and to Ranni, both of which start you on questlines that are antithetical to the Golden Order. The Finger Reader tells you you shouldn’t burn the Erdtree, but also how to do it. When you meet Godfrey in his first cutscene, he appears to have the light of grace guiding him to fight you. To repair the Ring which Marika embodies, you must kill her. The “All-Knowing” has, in my interpretation, glimpsed this inherent contradiction and come to embody it. His plan doesn’t make sense because it can’t.
As a Welshman, to hear the Welsh Accent in a game like this is amazing, the Albanauric hiding in the jar has a massively Welsh Accent, so does Blaidd and Ranni
Gideon could have easily become elden lord. Imagine he had many such jars and used them as a throwing weapon. All of his enemies would have disintegrated out of sheer disgust.
My interpretation of Gideon's motives was that he originally meant to become the Elden Lord and that plan included hoarding knowledge and backstabbing other Tarnished. But at some point he came to know "Marika's" will, without knowing that Marika and Radagon are the same person. I think Marika wanted someone to topple the Golden Order, while Radagon wanted to preserve it, so if someone was to look into their collective will it would keeping up the struggle for eternity.
@@justhair17 that's honestly a good point i didn't considered, we don't know if Illusion Morgott top above Godrick, however I think Gideon could beat him barely
In my fIrst run, I went and killed all of the shard-bearers (cept for Miquella and Malenia obviously), and that means, in the story, Gideon watched me kill all the demi-gods, and still went "I bet if I use all their powers and spells I could kill him"
Honestly, I wish the fight with Gideon wasn't so laughably easy. They should have at least given him way more health. As it stands you can kill him before he moves, let alone before you see some of the cool spells he uses. Major missed opportunity imo
@@agtjake i think the dlc will expand on his plot it seems he wanted miquella to succeed as a god and after he finds out either through us or someone else that even miquella failed he comes to the conclusion that no one can succeed at marika’s ploy for a new order so he decides that no one must succeed in the war for the elden ring
There's a video out there pitting Gideon against the other bosses and he does surprisingly well. I think he's just poorly designed as a player enemy. Vs AI, he's pretty tough
@@agtjake would be cool fighting him on the Erdtree's stairs. Refering the cut quest from DS1 where Oscar was meant to be the Chosen Undead's rival. In every ending he would have turned on the opposite sides of ours, like if we joined Kaathe he would have sides with Frampt and viceversa
the theory of the beetles was discovered by chuso montero, a spanish no-hitter, he posted it in reddit about 2 months after the game launched. (It was discovered during his first playthrough, that was around 300 hour or something like that, and its uploaded here in youtube)
I knew this guy was bad news. I tried to 100% (kill every boss, even the mini bosses) on my first run through. Gideon was the only tarnished who had henchman and discarded his daughter without a second thought. Something I did not know was that his fight is dependent on what you discover and the bosses you fight. Naturally since I murdered everything in the land between, I was blown away how he used literally every single spell in the damn game during our fight. It was fitting his name but if this is true, this indeed means he stalks us, the most successful tarnished since Godfrey himself. I intend to do a speed run after I finish my SL lv 1 so I will def test this (since I will skip everything that is not needed to clear the game)........so prob in 2-3 months XD.
@@WeAreTheReapers wait so if you beat Malenia but never speak of miquella or the haligtree he will not be able to use scarlet aeonia? Or rykards flame spell?
@@CarlNiemi I fought him before the nerf to that spell. So I literally one shot him as that spell scaled damage off your right hand weapon and would easily one shit every single humanoid in the entire game. It was a guaranteed one shot in PVP too. If it landed u were dead no matter what even with the protective flask and the one that healed u close to death
@@WeAreTheReapers Unfortunately this isn't true. I had Melina burn the Erdtree in my game, meaning Gideon had already left the Roundtable, THEN I went and killed Malenia and Mohg. Never was able to talk to Gideon about them because he was already gone. When I finally fought him, he still used their spells. I can't confirm anything about not fighting them at all and then battling Gideon, but talking to him is not the trigger for him using those spells.
While Gideon intended to challenge us for the throne at some point, I always read him as one of the more rational characters. He’s completely fine with helping us collect runes and remove obstacles. Even the terrible things he does like murder the albenurics have a tangible benefit to him like getting the medallion for the Haligtree. The only other character like him who isn’t clouded by blind faith or hatred is Rogier, though obviously less noble. Which is why whatever he saw in Marika is so interesting: what convinced him that the whole quest was impossible? Not even the prophesizing of the Two Fingers gave him pause.
I don't think he thought it was impossible, I think he just feared the repercussions. If you fail, the Greater WIll is pissed because it was attacked. If you succeed you give into Marika's plan.
I always thought Gideon's helmet looked like an Owl. Owls are renowned for their ability to silently observe and stalk their prey without detection until the time they choose to strike.
Henricus, the guy who invades you by the colosseum in Limgrave, was probably a spy for Gideon, gaining information on the Volcano manner, but then actually ended becoming a recusant.
At 6:00, well there are beetles in these areas. There is specifically one in a cave in Mohgwyn Dynasty that drops the Blood Tax ash of war, there are a few in the Haligtree that drop hp and fp (dunno if those count for your theory), there are three in Deeproot Depths that drop upgrade materials and one that drops the Golden Land ash of war, and yes, there are few in the Mountaintops though I think it's interesting there's far more in the Snowfields, an area I'd consider more hidden and hard to get to.
My favorite part with Gideon is my second playthrough. Me and my mimic, both of us equipping Hand of Malenia, using the weapon skill at the exact same time, and died before he could do anything. Coolest moment of my life.
I think grace acts differently for different people. We are given a plethora of stuff grace does for us that is unique, like saves not far from bosses. For all we know when we die our memories are funneled into Gideon and that's how he learns all this.
Maybe he had a glimpse of what happened to Marika after she shattered the ring and also the elden beast. Wouldn't blame him if he's cowering in fear and lost hope of becoming a lord. In his mind, ya can't defeat the elden beast, so he might as stop you from even trying. Master Hewg tho has quite the task. He probably had a glimpse of Marika and the elden beast too and this is why he's going through with job imposed to him to the very end.
I think this is exactly right, especially with Hewg’s obsession of forging a weapon able to kill a god. I don’t think Gideon is evil (exactly) or part of some grand plot, just a fellow tarnished trying to become lord by any means necessary.
@@zergray6851 I mean, considering what he did to find one half of the Haligtree medallion and his apathy towards his own adopted daughter I wouldn't consider him a good guy. He will use whatever means at his disposal to achieve his goal, even if that means killing a whole a village in search of an item.
@@zergray6851 no Gideon is definitely evil, he slaughtered an entire village of innocent Albinaurics just to find one half of the medallion and cast away his own daughter when she tried to confront him
@@dracothemighty Hes not apathetic towards her though. Why does he go out of his way to thank us for helping her if he doesnt care? Despite the appearances he puts on, he clearly cares about her at least a little bit
@@lilricebowl9731 This is, in fact, how an antivillain works. They do evil acts in order to reach a "Greater good" Which is basically exactly what gideon seems to be doing. Plus, I get the feeling it was moreso he told ensha to retrieve the medallion by any means necessary, also why ensha attacked us too soon
I don't think Gideon was being a rational actor at this point. I think it's clear he saw something that completely changed his mind on becoming Elden Lord. He wasn't intending to Kill you, there was just no other choice left but to fight in his eyes. From his point of view, you're not gonna win. No man can kill a god. Course he forgot he's in a Japanese video game.
The connection to the bugs is interesting and I never thought of that. A lot of them drop ashes of war or spells, which can both be considered a type of 'knowledge' he could be collecting. Also if they pick up some smithing stone along the way, that only helps him get stronger to fight anyone getting too far
Slight correction, Gideon actually wasn't planning to kill you in the start he just wanted a tarnished to become Elden Lord, that's why he gives you information and helps you. But before leaving the roundtable hold when it was burning he learned something about Marika and her will that made him change his mind. Even if he beat you he wouldn't try to become elden lord for that fact
@@thefatherinthecave943 yeah which means "act prematurely". He was always planning on killing you, ensha just acted on plans that were a little in the future. Essentially it should have both been Gideon and ensha in that fight at the end, if Ensha hadnt been rash and tried to ambush you.
He knows this stuff because of the remembrances we bring back from the bosses we defeat, which we know are in the hold because the finger reader crone has the items for sale. If you go to mougues blood temple but don't kill him, Gideon won't have blood magic because you haven't gotten the remembrance.
I might have to agree. Would’ve been a cool cutscene to fight Godfrey in the Ashen Capitol. He’s walking down carrying Morgott in the cutscene. Would’ve made for a cool boss arena. Then you get to area before the erdtree and Gideon is sitting on the throne as a pretender. 1st phase Gideon is his own unique move set. 2nd phase he starts spamming all the Demi god moves
And fight Godfrey in the Ashen Capital would bring a lot of Slave Knight Gaël vibes!! You got ashes, you got embers with the burning tree, perfect way for a Tarnished to shit himself..
other way around, first he spams demi god stuff then second phase bustss out his own moves that he created thru all the knowledge, cause in theory a moveset you havent faced yet would be harder
Gideon actually got his powers from your conversations with him. The more you talk to him about what you’ve done the more he knows when you fight. Great video. That’s the only part I feel ya missed on.
One of the really disturbing things about Gideon is how secretive he is. Aside from Patches, for obvious reasons, he's kind of the only character that deliberately tries to hide their intentions. Sure, some of them don't outright tell you everything about them, but Gideon distorts the truth for his own gain. So yeah, Gideon is the most fitting character in Elden Ring to be called a villain.
I would uave loved to see a larger scale battle against Gideon. I've always beat him to death in a few hits since he staggers. I wish he warped away or something to smack a few more spells out, as I never saw the differences the two tines we fought. He was gone too fast. Needs buff.
He's supposed to just be a speedbump to show you how powerful your character has become. Gideon was (to most new players) the most experienced tarnished in the lands between as he literally controls the roundtable hold, so when he stands to fight you and you 4 hit him into the ground, it's to show how far you've come and how strong you are.
In my first playthrough I was a mage and oh boy, let me tell you, it's not a good idea to trade spells with Gideon, even with 60 vigor he took me around 8 tries. He doesn't need a buff to damage or health, just more heals and a teleport to counter melee builds that stagger him
@@LeoSengerRyanCooper That's exactly the kind of buff I would want for him; maneuverability moveset. It's great thematically to fight him in Godfrey's chamber, but it's a limited recycling and I wish there was a little more verticality since he's a Mage; the arena is just a bad fit for his cast style since there is little wiggle room with his poor maneuverability. Petal Whips shred him.
thanks for the video about the theory man, it makes me so happy to see a theory that we came up with growing like this and being shared around the world
I’ve been talking with Vanesa. Unfortunately, I didn’t see your Reddit post. I’ve just heard this theory from random comments I’ve received on videos and community posts for a couple weeks now, where they likely heard that from your Reddit post. But I would like to put your post in the pinned comment and description for people to read. All the best 👍
@@agtjake It's great, thank you very much! It's normal and I believe you, I really do, it's normal when we are all trying to participate and discover, information is flying from one to another and that's good ! In the end the important thing is that we all build together, and this video certainly does that! That makes me happy, it also makes me happy that we can talk about this in a super friendly way. Sorry if we makes you feel bad in some way, not intended. Hugs Jake
I think the symbols change because there different ranks of beatles. Gideon won't just have 1 type of spy he'll have different types suited for different areas and marking them with a altered insignia is just his way of telling them apart and being able to locate them. He wouldn't still use an eye if he was trying to hide his presence, he's the all knowing so he's gathering all types of information not specifically the tarnished.
This was very similar to my own headcanon. Every time you bring back information that the "All Knowing" was seemingly unaware of, he teaches you a new skill - and in turn, the player is "teaching" Gideon a new skill for him to use when you encounter him in Leyndell.
Could Gideon be trying to stop anyone from becoming Elden Lord, because that would change the Land, and if the Land changes instead of remaining in it's current stasis, then Gideon cannot become All Knowing.
I didn't enjoyed the fight. I smashed him with a massive bonk weapon that was equipped with frostbite/bloodhound step and just 3 hits he's fooking gone into eternity.
I literally just figured out something, the Recusant Henricus you fight outside the colosseum in storm hill is the owner of the chainmail armor you find in Rykard's boss room. He was the eyes and ears of Gideon but eventually betrayed him and joined the Volcano manor after he had no doubt sent him there to act as his spy.
I wonder if those beetles are essentially just cameras that Gideon can create utilizing magic and can disappear back into nothing once noticed. This could also somewhat explain why you receive ashes of war, or incantations, etc. because you recognized one of Gideons “drones” and managed to destroy it before it could disappear which allowed you to peer into a small portion of Gideons mind and steal some information from him
The problem with that is that some beetles can also give you Smithing Stones. I doubt looking into someone's mind would magically give you stones to upgrade your weapon with.
One of Gideon's earliest dialogue lines is: "I'm sick and tired of them. These namby-pamby Tarnished think us no more than a shelter from the rain..." Up until I saw him in the Ashen Capital at the end, I spent my whole first playthrough checking his room, seeing he was still in there and thinking, "Little namby-pamby bitch. You're one to talk." Meanwhile I first met Rogier deep inside Stormveil and he died from exploring the deepest parts of it. I first met D out in Limgrave, actively fighting those who live in death and working with Gurranq. The incantation dude, I forget his name, leaves to find Goldmask in Altus and follows him all around the world afterward. His 'daughter' is deep inside Stormveil, helps you fight Godrick, and then travels even deeper in to Liurnia. Even Fia leaves before Gideon does, going to Deeproot Depths. He has Ensha playing bodyguard for him EVEN IN THE SAFE ZONE. Gideon's the most narcissistic hypocrite the Lands Between has ever seen lol
Read more about the theory by @VanesaOJ & @ChusoMMontero here: www.reddit.com/r/Eldenring/comments/u4t8l9/new_theory_about_gideon_ofnir_and_how_he_knows/
Check out the thumbnail artist @kankan33333 & Jbird9270 in the description 🎨 Absolutely beautiful work!
One quick note, the Gideon clip at the end is just a parody 😉 You can find it here: th-cam.com/video/xAgj74SmpPY/w-d-xo.html
Well. I’m glad I’m not completely gullible. I thought it sounded a bit off. And the dialogue seemed a bit strange for from. But it almost had me.
I love you for adding that, honestly
Have you heard the story of the Homunculi? According to earth lore, in order to create a homunculus you have to use your “seed” among other gross things in a jar, this was a cheeky reference😂 I posted a video with history of homunculi tell me what you think, he says at one point “ homunculi are people of the stars” quite fitting considering Rannis position🤔
th-cam.com/video/u7BmmcByC5w/w-d-xo.html
There is a scarab beetle in the haligtree too
Lol Gideon getting ideas from My Little Pony cursed 4chan threads 💀💀💀
Seeing his reading posture I'm not surprised he died so easily, that bad back was his true enemy
Instantly fixed my posture lmao
He tells us straight, his bones feel all sorts of things.
Nah, it’s his crappy eyesight, poor aiming and evasion, that made it easy to kill him. He can’t even read text 5cm from his nose.
@@danieltukua4527 lol me too
That helmet has got to be a bitch to read in.
Gideon watching an immortal, rolling psychopath obliterate 7 demigods in the span of a week: "Yeah i could take him."
nah, i'd win
@@Musti101 Tarnish: Be proud you are strong😎
He studied us
Following the logic that everything in a fromsoft game happens for a reason, Gideon is on amphetamines.
Gideon has Skyrim bandit mentality
I like to think that Gideon was on his way to steal the throne but realised Godfrey was there so tried to sneak back out, then we arrived just at the right time to catch him
That’s so funny 😂. He’s like “oh shit it’s HIM” 🏃🏾♂️🏃🏾♂️💨
That’s fucking hilarious!
what's funny is that Gideon and Godfrey are both usurpers to the throne, showing up at the last minute to take the throne
@@shekelwarlocke Hey now, Godfrey was just late, you can’t blame the man for that
@@shekelwarlocke it is implied Godfrey was summoned by Marika all the while being granted his grace once again
So Gideon watched me kill Mielania and said, “Yeah I think I can take him.” He may be all-knowing but by no means is he wise
Gideon's stas
Intelligence : 10/10 peak stat
Wisdom: -100/10
Wisdom was his dump stat, he leveled int to the detriment of everything else.
Also his idea "yeah, let's just steal that uber-attack that Malenia used twice and use it too" was literally the dumbest idea ever. Description of Scarlet Aeonia suggests that each use of this incantation surrenders a little bit of user's personality to rot goddess, turning him slowly into a puppet. And then he's just like "yeah, let's fuckin goooo!"
He tells you a man can’t kill a god after watching you kill Malenia, *GODDESS* of Rot.
@@Walker_96365 ehhh, there's difference in various godhood degrees. There's outer gods, almighty cosmic forces, then there their emissaries. Marika and Malenia could be a god's vessel, but Elden Beast was his primary emissary, who could dispose of failed "gods" if need arises. Maybe Gideon Ofnir thought that you can't kill such enemy.
Of course, killing the outer gods themselves is out of questions, nobody even knows what they truly are.
Gideon: *Spends years collecting knowledge and power in a slow quest to become Elden Lord*
My Tarnished, with 9 int: *bonk*
One of my characters: FUCK KNOWLEDGE MY FAITH IN DRAGONS WILL CARRY ME TO THE THROWN
Hmm. Stick.
@@excusemebutwhat3587 Even better, bigger stick. Big is good, does more hurt.
Because a crown is warranted with strenght
All i need is my strength and my faith that take on my foes... and maybe a bit of destine death
It’s hilarious that you can one shot Gideon with inescapable frenzy, and it fits lord-wise. Man has so much knowledge that him being exposed to madness would have great effect
man gathered so much lore he trespassed into Bloodborne game mechanics
@@vincentcabezas7147 even just a second-long glance at an Amygdala and he's dead
I want a mod that adds voicelines to Gideon being pissed off at you for rolling around the room and destroying his study
Gideon: STOP DESTROYING MY STUDY
my tarnished: what are you gonna do about it? KILL me?
@Loki "Oh, look, a fallen Tarnished, unable to show even even the smallest amount of respect or restraint."
"Please, leave me to my studies. You can go spar with Nepheli if you have such energy."
"STOP WITH THE DAMN ROLLING! Ah, sorry, lost my temper, lad."
I want a mod that lets you tidy up the study
What would be even funnier and even more in character, would be if he wasn't even angry but just detested your lack of intelligence or just got severely disappointed
i want a mod that lets me replace the books and tools in Gideon's study with more appropriate object for Elden Lean. Strippers, cocaine, rolled up money and ghost guns just to name a few.
It's likely that Enshia is a puppet, considering how he doesn't talk, and Gideon's past relationship with Selvuius
Truuuue
May also explain why his NPC model looks green and decayed
God dam!! I dint even realize that
This is a good ass theory though
He also offers to take Seluvis's potion off your hands, and what he does with it is unknown.
Gideon: I’M THE SMARTEST MAN THAT HAS EVER LIVED!
Also Gideon: Labels his spies with a clearly visible crest that literally anyone could see.
He also used spells he knew the player had beaten against the player
Tbf, most tarnished would try to kill the Beatles as fast as possible before they disappear
And most of us still didn't know what these beetles were was for .
@@MaskedEmperor18We just want the runes 😂
Plot Twist: -You- were his spy all along
Gideon: "A tarnished cannot become an Elden Lord."
Tarnished: "What about a Lord of Frenzied Flame?"
Gideon: "Suppose that's al- *WHAT* ?!"
Gideon: Listen here you little shit!
@@TheOrangex88 Gideon: "Forget the magic. I'm putting you through the fucking wall."
@@Grimno Tarnished: Calm down Bill Burr
*Gets the Kiss of Death immeadiately*
@@TheNapster153 Tarnished: THATS IT!!!
*lifts Gideon up and throws him in 4ft pool*
Tarnished: Cool off!
Godfrey's return was unexpected, even to Gideon. He basically didn't even know Godfrey was at the base of the tree
True you deserve more likes. It was implied that everyone thought that Godfrey was long gone forever.
Fr, godfrey was a living legend that nobody realized had returned by the time we get to the capital.
Godfrey was a tarnished just like the player... all the tarnished came back. Godfrey was out and about doing the same stuff as the player...
@@Havyng25 No he was a tarnished just like us.
@@A_Black_Sheep94 everyone in the game still thought Godfrey wouldn't return though. Even if he is tarnished, the people in the Lands Between believed he gave up after the storm king
Something I find funny about the eye surcoat is where you find it: Rykard’s boss room. Which implies that the spy beat you there or was doing their own reconnaissance for Gideon and got eaten by Rykard.
When you get both medallions and go talk to Gideon about it, he says straight up that he doesn’t know what they lead to. He killed off that whole village out of mere curiosity about a medallion when he doesn’t even know what it does.
Or he simply lied to you. Being all-knowing and helping you in certain points doesnt mean he cant lie to you
@@geniscladellas6165 he says something along the lines of “you want to know what that medallion does? So do I, friend. So do I.” And then later when you tell him it takes you to the Haligtree he thanks you for the intelligence and I think he might even give you a spell for it.
@@talongreenlee7704 so he remembers he lied to you and lies again
It basically means that it's something that lies outside of his intelligence network (spies/informants/maps/documents), he has an inkling of why the medallion is important and where it might lead but no concrete proof. It wasn't curiosity, it was following a thread to see where it leads
Or he lied, wouldn't have been the first time
When Ensha attacked me and Gideon immediately brushed it off as him just being Ensha. I already knew he was going to be a thorn in my side.
That and the fact that he was so gatekeep, gaslight, girlboss about us not being a true part of the roundtable until we've gotten one great rune while every shardbearer is still alive. He doesn't even meet his own criteria to be in the roundtable.
@@gublaman well technically there are more great runes than the ones that are obtained from shardbearers, (such as the mending runes) it’s very possible he got some kind of weak great rune and just considered it as strong as the rest
@@gublaman There's actually a ton of more shardbearers aside from the bosses we fight. Mainly marikas "Unwanted children"
I mean... He literally Tells you in the beginning he desires to become elden lord and you eventually would fight him.
@@gublaman there are many Great Runes. Other than the demigods we killed, Marika has other "unwanted children" who are either missing demigods or the soulless demigods (like Godwyn).
Vyke held two Great Runes and we do not know which ones are the ones he holds as it's obviously Great Runes we do not possess.
*watches me destroy every boss effortlessly*
Gideon: nah, I’d win
I don't understand why you would say he "Turns on us." There is one throne, Gideon says from the beginning that he seeks it. I feel like as a Tarnished, you know that you will eventually fight him, it's a temporary truce and was never meant to be a surprise. Hardly seems villainous.
exactly
He never really used villainous to describe his will to take the throne, though. Just that he massacred helpless villages and is always shady about everything. Always pretending to be nice and helpful while secretly plotting everyone's undoing. The player isn't innocent either since the game directly has you kill so many things/people in your quest for power.
Hes exudes insane level of D-bag vibes. Hes guilty
Yeah, I don’t get why this is so hard for so many to understand. Every interaction before his fight was a sort of cold war between him & you, attempting subterfuge & steering the player to do his bidding, essentially clearing the path for him to attain more knowledge through your actions & incentivizing you to share your own knowledge with him.
He claims "None may claim the title of Elden Lord" so he does betray you.
At least that's what I got.
I felt like Gideon is more of a Rival Character, especially considering how blurry the line between good and evil usually is in these games
in a world of power games and wars it´s only natural for the pragmatic and resourceful to worm their way tot the top
It reminds me a lot of Oscar of Astoras cut questline, where he'd assault you in the Izalith shortcut and oppose your views, regardless of if you want to link the flame or not. FromSoft really has a thing for turning the guy who helps you from the start into someone who believes their best chance to save the world is stopping you.
yeah I always kind of viewed Gideon as a manipulator, using tarnished to do the work so he could then reap the reward
like with Nepheli, sending her after Godrick after giving her the idea that if he became elden lord he would bring justice to the lands between, but as soon as she questions his orders he throws her away like she was nothing, I wouldn't be surprised if the village she talks about being destroyed in her infancy was done under the order of Gideon just like the Albinauric villiage
same with the player Tarnished, pointing us the other Demi gods in hopes of us gathering more of the great runes to open the way, only for him to then attempt to kill us and take our place
Very Smart Interpritation although it is Often a Rarity, but It was so Obvious about his Character yet a lot of people missed this including myself, i just Thought he was some Old Bitch that needed me to Slay bosses in order to get some more Praise and get on his good side. Turned out to be the Whoreson that he always was. lol.
Uummm no one gonna comment on the ranni dialogue? Please tell me you made this genuine video and just snuck that joke in at the end. That’s NOT in the game.
What the dung eater does is just straight up evil.
15:00 gideon did NOT say this 😭😭💯🔥🔥
@@latenightriott gideon the all coming lol
Not the Cum jar not again 😭😭😭😭
Yeah wait wtf is this a mod or something???
He a 69 god? 😅
@@orange5718 probs a fan voice over or AI voiced 💯
I imagine Gideon let Godfrey past because he knows he couldn’t defeat him in his current state so he tries to kill you to get the power of your great runes to kill Godfrey
My head canon is that he hid from Godfrey to let him through.
Godfrey may have gotten there first
My guess is,
Gideon probably realized at the last step, that the whole plan of making Tarnished marching their way to the throne, was actually a scheme from Marika to have her ex-husband to gather enough strength (by taking down friends/us and foe alike) to retake the throne and then unshackle their tide with the Greater Will.
Other than Godrey, we Tarnished were probably never meant to be the Elden Lord, or at the very least we were just the last resort if Godfrey failed for whatever reason.
first time i’ve ever heard this. i like this
@@apophisstr6719 this is true. He was apart of the plot. So he could come save her and both of them could overcome the greater will.
The bit about scarab beetles really lines up for me, considering the one right before omenkiller fight in Albunaric village leads you right to the boss and disappears so quickly
This. I started remembering that, as he was talking about scarab thing. That absolutely checks out.
The beetles in question are also some kind of dung beetles... so, while a bit of a stretch, there might be some connection to that and the Dungeater.
The beetles just run in the opposite direction of you. They don’t lead you anywhere.
@@BeggarsNight yes they do run away from you in a pretty straightforward way but they often are quite purposely placed to lead you into traps. Although I feel this is just something the developers love to do as they've had the crystal lizards and whatever Bloodbornes version is called do the same thing in every game
@@UnholyWrath3277 yes they are very crystal lizard like. Sometimes its a trap.
Gideon watching you: Why the hell has the Tarnished murdered so many Albinaurics?! What power do these Albinaurics hold!
By saying "Ensha got ahead of himself" he could merely mean that Ensha passed judgment on us prematurely. Unlikely he'd imply a later assassination attempt.
Exactly, especially because he would have reason for doing so, but Gideon would not want him to
What happens if you don't return to the roundtable until you have both halves of the medallion?
@@federicoromero93 The same thing.
why does Gideon want the Medallion anyway. Its not like ne needs Malenias great rune to become Elden Lord and in the state Radahn is in, she's the strongest of the bunch
@@revengance4149 I think he's worried because he doesn't know what's going on in the Halligtree.
"Imagine what she could do with her four arms to your tackle"
That shit was hilarious
Ranni: _performs the four arm strike_
"When she was miniature and in your grasp.... Did ye... stick 'er in a jar?.... And did ye fill that jar with your Tarnished Seed."
That shit was a crazy ass statement
"Imagine what those four armpits smell like"
@@SVN_ETR Ah hellll nah 😭😂😂😂😂
@@ToanIV im always callin it tarnished seed now😭just so badass
Gideon gives littlefinger vibes
I felt relieved when both died
Gideon having an odin reference is very fitting considering many Odin stories and portrayals also have him ruthlessly seeking knowledge, no matter the cost and collateral damage.
Right! I was just thinking that!
Obviously...
*me, who's only played God of War Ragnarok*: yes I understand this
It always leads back to Odin…
I think that the things the beetles collect are primarily knowledge, as we can see in the ash of war we can sometimes get from them. After they have collected enough (or get scared) they teleport back to Gideon with the knowledge balls, which he can decipher.
This is a precious theory!
Brilliant take. Makes the most sense to me.
Knowledge balls.
Brave tarnished, claim for yourself a knowledge ball
“Knowledge Balls” is such a great term.
Gideon needs to be superimposed into the background of every area. Climbing around the background, watching, judging hahah
I feel so sorry for those of us that understood the little Ranni in a jar reference...... especially the tarnished "seed" part 😰
Ranni seedjar
💀 I Died laughing 💀💀💀
@@KiyoshiAkagi dyn laughing
Well it's a joke vid so ye
I have seen the pictures yes
I didn’t know that Gideon was so down bad for Ranni.
pretty sure it was a parody by the voice actor not actual lore th-cam.com/video/xAgj74SmpPY/w-d-xo.html
@jumbo I just saw the video and that ending shit is so out of character for anything in the game did this youtuber actually think it was legit lol?
@@xnitropunkx I doubt it
@@xnitropunkx wait its not legit?
Wouldn’t be surprised if it was real miyezaki has a foot fetishish
Maybe the scarabs' spheres of trash are actually filled with random items they gather. Gideon could go find them, extracting the ashes of war. It just happens we get to them first, even though he wanted the ashes for himself.
Pay close attention to Gideon’s helmet especially. From his demeanor and the way he looks at you he comes off as an owl looking for weakness in its prey his helmet is similar to the witch king in lord of the rings another overseer who stalks his pray before striking.
Also like an owl Gideon is always watching and always seeing… you’ll never hear or see him coming until the very end
I always thought his helmet looked like an owl! I was always creeped out by it and now I understand it’s for good reason lol
That’s so cool lol, I noticed this just never put it to fruition in my mind
Have you noticed the bearded part of his helmet are ears
@@bearbones7913 No I did not. Good observation
I've never not destroyed Gideon on my first try. A pretender through and through
I know how evil of a character he is, with everything he did during our playthroughs but damn I swear whenever I hear him speak I wish we both could stay close comrades.
He does have a great voice
i can't bring myself to dislike him, despite knowing how much of an asshole he is
the way he talks, his manners and all, it's just incredible
Reminds me of Sean Bean(but really that's just the Northern England accent)
Turning Gideon's daughter, Nepheli Loux, into the new lord of stormveil after gideon was such a dick to her, is my favourite side quest ending.
One of the few happy ones.
But even then, the game tries to get you to turn her into a puppet. Good thing Dung Eater exists, nice spot for Seluvis' potion.
@@christopherjohnson2171 Even if the Elden ring community cannot agree on weapon tier lists of using summon, i love how we can all come together and agree that Seluvis can roundly go fuck himself
Kid named selvius potion:
Perhaps the beetles aren’t exactly spies but more like gatherers, finding items and information (like weapon arts) to bring back to him for study. That’s why they drop it such things when killed.
This is more likely I agree
Gideon's 'scepter of the all-knowing' states it's holding a pearl... But it doesn't look like a traditional pearl, it looks like fingers grasping a darker, grubbier sphere... Could it instead be holding a "pearl of knowledge", referring to the little tumbleweed things the scarabs are bringing him?
it also explains why they sometimes dont even have any items or weapons arts. they're all over and just searching for stuff. not only that, but all of the beetles around the glintstone key for the academy would serve to notify him if anyone managed to get inside.
True answer right here
@@GetBackToWorkSteve Dunno, the pearl could be a rapresentation of the cosmos, an other form of knowledge.
Speaking about the elephant in the room, a globe in the staff is a synonymous of Power (i think that Gideon was a king).
That secret dialogue was actually made up by a guy on yt called UnusualCharacters. Well it got me too, gideon's voice here is too convincing but it's only a joke
Was wondering about that... Doesn't feel right... Don't think Fromsoft would put in such dialogue tbh...
I love when these content creators include these things, it shows they like some humor too and don't take things too seriously, hilarious to me! :)
@@AndrewWilkins70120 it's perverted that's what it is.
@@briang7794 maidenless behavior
@@AndrewWilkins70120 it's in the pinned comment haha
Love the fact that you put a Skyrim song in the video. It creates a really good atmosphere where your commentary shines. Good job.
Gideon being the true villain is very on brand for Soulsborne. A bit like Pontiff Sullivahn in DS3, who is the real villain of the game, but not the end boss, and how so many of the things going on in the world are directly connected to his ambitions and plots.
You're goddamn right
Pontiff also become villian of my life for 4 hours
Wouldn’t really call Gideon a villain. How is he different from the Tarnish ?
I love the comparisons to Pontiff Sullyvahn because the Pontiff is like if Gideon managed to succred whereas Gideon is what would happen if we encountered the Pontiff in the middle of his rise to power.
I think the big difference between the two is that Sullyvahn understood that the power to rule means being a proactive mastermind which is how he was able to co-op with a monster such as Aldritch, meanwhile Gideon has no intentions of actively leading or taking visible steps that we see to accomplishing his goals until he sees it the most opportune moment.
To me, Pontiff Sullyvahn is a dragon posing as a snake and Gideon is a snake posing as a dragon.
@@kiraa175if anything Gideon is a rival with a bit of sportsmanship. It’s impossible alone even if only one can become lord.
The one emotion Gideon felt when he interacted in some way with Marika was "fear". Juxtapose this with the emotion various NPCs ascribe to our main character, that of "bravery". We have fingers that do not waver when read but rather remain firm, resolute. Perhaps that's what makes us special even from other tarnished. We just aren't afraid. When Gideon said, "No man can kill a god, not even you," I think he was speaking more about himself.
Like the Chosen Undead from Dark Souls, we are the Fearless Tarnished
O yeah that is also a good interpretation of that line.
Unlike others, we have nothing to lose, we can only win in this scenario
@@Eric6761 IDK i lost a whole lotta fecking runes i would have rather not from time to time lol
@@Corey_Mckilling I feel for you, Smogh and Ornstein claimed my souls more times than I can count
Gideon the all knowing in the end didn’t know anything at all.
So i'd just like to point out that Gideon doesnt actually execute the spells in game unless you've told him you defeated the shardbearer. Good example- the scarlet aeonia. A very common way to avoid having to deal with the spell in the Gideon fight is to just not tell him you beat her. His spells are directly correlated to the information you give him- he doesn't use spells you don't tell him about. That's why he gives you spells in exchange for information as well- its a direct trade.
You will miss out on some of the spells and incantations he can give you as rewards, but it is an option. Realistically, he isn't difficult if you press him, no matter what he's equipped with. Give him no breathing room and he dies expediently.
I've defeated Malenia after Gideon left the round table and he still used scarlet aeonia without me telling him about it.
@@ashariastroy interesting, because that’s not supposed to happen. Google it. Are you 100% you didn’t tell him about Malenia?
@@whitediamond8507 I didn’t tell him about defeating rykard and he still uses the rancor
same as I said in a response to a different comment, I'm starting to think he has the ability to use remembrances from the Walking Mausoleums. How would he know if there were new things to take from the WMs? Well if only there were a tarnished who would take these shardbearers out then just come tell me he did :/
Careful dude some soyboy on Reddit might have made a 50 word post mildly delving into this lore point
I'm actually waiting for that reddit lad to claim another false claim once again.
Nah some one might have thought of the idea in there head for a passing moment be careful
Do people really, seriously and unironically copyright fucking video game lore theories? Lmao
yeah but it was in fact something from reddit, more so a spanish streamer called ChusoMontero doing a blind lore hunting playthrought deduced how gideon was using the scarabs to spy on us in one of his streams, later on he made a post on reddit talking about exactly all this findings. It is somewhat upsetting that this guy doesnt credit Chuso or atleast mention him in anyway, because the stream he made weeks ago touches almost all the points in the video
@@elsasta13 it’s still lore from a GAME
That comment Gideon made about Ranni was str8 creep shit
"He's stalking us!"
Also Tarnished: "Hey so here's what I learned about these bosses you sent me after"
I believe he has an extreme monitoring system established throughout the world, but I don't think he needs to directly spy on you if you end up reporting back to him. It's the only way he learns these spells, after all.
Still, the rest of it was nice.
I've never actually talked to him in any of my playthroughs and he still has the spells of bosses I've killed
He does mention the fact we tell him things in the game
@@davidbartholomew2634 Maybe he was keeping the illusion of establishing and partnership. Like he says he wants you to tell him everything you know even tho he knows it already. Also the Players version of the story could be seen different from his perspective, so maybe he is just double checking.
@@davidbartholomew2634 I think Lore wise before his non optional boss fignt, you the player have interacted more than you may actually have irl if that makes sense. Like in universe you go report to him no matter how many bosses you fight thus ensuring he will always learn the sorcerries and spells from defeated bosses and such.
The way Gideon reads is how someone who was just about to get caught, grabs a book or magazine and is pretending to read
I like to imagine that whenever we enter his study, Gideon goes full stormtrooper mode, trying to find something to focus on to look like he's as studious as he claims.
It makes sense he probably had pics of Ranni or something like that
This has bugged me since the gameplay trailer :D
i love this, games always make you the center of atention with vague reasons, so having other tarnished and hearing about them makes it feel like your insignificant in the grander scheme and i love every minute of it
I was thinking the same thing.. actually going through the story and seeing how he always seems to be one step behind and in front of you … and when his lackey tried to kill me for the half of the medallion at round table I knew he was dirty
I thought we were on the same page about the Jar
Dude that shit freaked me out the first time, traveled to the round table and was walking out of my room to the bathroom when I heard my character get hit and I ran back in like what the fuck is happening 😂
@@mynamejef7963 yea he killed me the first time cause I wasn’t even prepared to fight initially
What do the halves of the medallion even do? Is there a lift to the haligtree? I always go in through the black knife assassin village
@@thedoomslayer5863 lift of rould has a second option to go to haligtree once you get both halves
When looking at what Gideon does, I am forcibly reminded of what sir Vilhelm told us in Dark Souls 3. "Every secret must be unearthed. Such is the conceit of the self-proclaimed seeker of truth.
But in the end, you lack the stomach.
For the agony you'll bring upon yourself...". When Gideon realized the truth behind Marikas plan, he lacked the will to go through with it.
I mean it's clear they've re-used a lot of game concepts/mechanics/story bits/etc so I wouldn't put it past them xD
@@misterwiggles8771 You're Missing the Point.
@@chainsmoker7390 my brother in christ, I'm missing a lot more than just the point.
So did Gideon not vibe with the whole “screw the greater will” plot?
@@wilburforce8046 Perhaps, perhaps not.
Gideon is the kind of guy to be the example of “Can I do it? Yes. Should I do it? Fuck if I know.”
“A Tarnished cannot become Elden Lord”
“Ok” _hands the title to Ranni_
“Wait no”
Edit: Yes I know this joke isn’t Lore accurate, but it ms also funnier so shut up.
"elden lord? oh that was never the plan, i just really like ranni and she wanted to do some stuff with the moon or something. she's so cute when she wants to disrupt the pre-conceived religious order built up over centuries, isnt she? i love my wife."
You still become elden lord in that ending.
you do know in that ending youre still elden lord right? she effectively replaces marika, you become her consort (consort of the goddess is elden lord)
Be the maiden you want to see in the world
@@cooperblackwell1392 Yes and no you become Lord but since the the influence of the Greater Will is gone the "Elden" part wouldn't really apply as for what title we SHOULD have... I'm partial to Lord of the Dark Moon
Can you imagine if you didn’t find the first half of the Medallion and Ensha would appear in the Gideon fight? That’d be dope
Then maybe it would have lasted more than 15 seconds
The way he gathers information is by us talking to him, he tells us where to find the Demi-gods and great runes and we come back to talk about their move sets and our battles with them. That’s why Gideon gets more spells the more Demi-gods you kill. He then decides to stop you not out of his own greed (as evident by the line “I know in my bones a tarnished cannot become Elden lord”) but because he learnt something about Marika that drove him that way, it’s the curse of the all-knowing. Some people have theorised that what he learns is that Marika created the Tarnished in a way that means they will try and fail to become Elden lord for eternity, torturing them again and again. And he tries to stop you because he doesn’t want to see you be tortured like that
The scarab theory is interesting!
My Gideon theory is that his mixed motivations are another manifestation of the Golden Order’s broken, contradictory nature.
Again and again, your attempts to do good result in tragedy. The guidance of grace leads you to Castle Morne and to Ranni, both of which start you on questlines that are antithetical to the Golden Order. The Finger Reader tells you you shouldn’t burn the Erdtree, but also how to do it. When you meet Godfrey in his first cutscene, he appears to have the light of grace guiding him to fight you. To repair the Ring which Marika embodies, you must kill her.
The “All-Knowing” has, in my interpretation, glimpsed this inherent contradiction and come to embody it. His plan doesn’t make sense because it can’t.
Whether he's evil or not he pulled up asking for smoke and gets clapped. Gideon got gidygone.
As a Welshman, to hear the Welsh Accent in a game like this is amazing, the Albanauric hiding in the jar has a massively Welsh Accent, so does Blaidd and Ranni
Gideon could have easily become elden lord. Imagine he had many such jars and used them as a throwing weapon. All of his enemies would have disintegrated out of sheer disgust.
My interpretation of Gideon's motives was that he originally meant to become the Elden Lord and that plan included hoarding knowledge and backstabbing other Tarnished. But at some point he came to know "Marika's" will, without knowing that Marika and Radagon are the same person. I think Marika wanted someone to topple the Golden Order, while Radagon wanted to preserve it, so if someone was to look into their collective will it would keeping up the struggle for eternity.
I honestly wouldn't be surprised if Gideon could actually beat by himself Godrick or Renalla in Depression before studying the lords magic
@@Eric6761maybe, but could he beat Margit tho? I feel like he is harder than Godrick and more of a roadblock
@@justhair17 that's honestly a good point i didn't considered, we don't know if Illusion Morgott top above Godrick, however I think Gideon could beat him barely
I like to keep the idea that Gideon was trying to follow Marika's wishes, but when he realized Marika's intent, he had to fight us.
In my fIrst run, I went and killed all of the shard-bearers (cept for Miquella and Malenia obviously), and that means, in the story, Gideon watched me kill all the demi-gods, and still went "I bet if I use all their powers and spells I could kill him"
He may have god tier intelligence, but is wisdom is in the negatives.
Well, you didn't fight all of them at once. So maybe combining their powers together is worth a shot
Why would it be obvious you didn't kill Malenia? 🤔
I disliked your comment 😡🤬🤬🤬
@@Sanctor95 if its a first run its easy to miss malenia ig
Honestly, I wish the fight with Gideon wasn't so laughably easy. They should have at least given him way more health. As it stands you can kill him before he moves, let alone before you see some of the cool spells he uses. Major missed opportunity imo
Agreed. Maybe if they made us fight Gideon after Godfrey? I just think that’d make more sense. It’s like they just slapped him in.
@@agtjake i think the dlc will expand on his plot it seems he wanted miquella to succeed as a god and after he finds out either through us or someone else that even miquella failed he comes to the conclusion that no one can succeed at marika’s ploy for a new order so he decides that no one must succeed in the war for the elden ring
Gideon is a pathetic old man, why should he be powerful, he is a tarnished, if he was so powerful he would have gone after the throne himself
There's a video out there pitting Gideon against the other bosses and he does surprisingly well. I think he's just poorly designed as a player enemy. Vs AI, he's pretty tough
@@agtjake would be cool fighting him on the Erdtree's stairs. Refering the cut quest from DS1 where Oscar was meant to be the Chosen Undead's rival. In every ending he would have turned on the opposite sides of ours, like if we joined Kaathe he would have sides with Frampt and viceversa
the theory of the beetles was discovered by chuso montero, a spanish no-hitter, he posted it in reddit about 2 months after the game launched. (It was discovered during his first playthrough, that was around 300 hour or something like that, and its uploaded here in youtube)
I knew this guy was bad news. I tried to 100% (kill every boss, even the mini bosses) on my first run through. Gideon was the only tarnished who had henchman and discarded his daughter without a second thought. Something I did not know was that his fight is dependent on what you discover and the bosses you fight. Naturally since I murdered everything in the land between, I was blown away how he used literally every single spell in the damn game during our fight. It was fitting his name but if this is true, this indeed means he stalks us, the most successful tarnished since Godfrey himself. I intend to do a speed run after I finish my SL lv 1 so I will def test this (since I will skip everything that is not needed to clear the game)........so prob in 2-3 months XD.
To add to it, he only gains the powers when we tell him about defeating the demigods. He doesn’t get the extra powers until we talk to him about it
Godspeed tarnished!
@@WeAreTheReapers wait so if you beat Malenia but never speak of miquella or the haligtree he will not be able to use scarlet aeonia?
Or rykards flame spell?
@@CarlNiemi I fought him before the nerf to that spell. So I literally one shot him as that spell scaled damage off your right hand weapon and would easily one shit every single humanoid in the entire game.
It was a guaranteed one shot in PVP too. If it landed u were dead no matter what even with the protective flask and the one that healed u close to death
@@WeAreTheReapers Unfortunately this isn't true. I had Melina burn the Erdtree in my game, meaning Gideon had already left the Roundtable, THEN I went and killed Malenia and Mohg. Never was able to talk to Gideon about them because he was already gone. When I finally fought him, he still used their spells.
I can't confirm anything about not fighting them at all and then battling Gideon, but talking to him is not the trigger for him using those spells.
While Gideon intended to challenge us for the throne at some point, I always read him as one of the more rational characters. He’s completely fine with helping us collect runes and remove obstacles. Even the terrible things he does like murder the albenurics have a tangible benefit to him like getting the medallion for the Haligtree. The only other character like him who isn’t clouded by blind faith or hatred is Rogier, though obviously less noble. Which is why whatever he saw in Marika is so interesting: what convinced him that the whole quest was impossible? Not even the prophesizing of the Two Fingers gave him pause.
He didnt know that marika and radagon eere the same person.
I don't think he thought it was impossible, I think he just feared the repercussions. If you fail, the Greater WIll is pissed because it was attacked. If you succeed you give into Marika's plan.
radagon probably sent out some message trying to keep things as they are, and he read it as marika
I always thought Gideon's helmet looked like an Owl. Owls are renowned for their ability to silently observe and stalk their prey without detection until the time they choose to strike.
Finally. That eye surcoat in Rykkard's chamber is driving me nuts.
Henricus, the guy who invades you by the colosseum in Limgrave, was probably a spy for Gideon, gaining information on the Volcano manner, but then actually ended becoming a recusant.
What
Holy crap that Gideon dialog about Ranni lmao he’s simping HARD
Not to burst your bubble but it was a parody and not the actual voice actor.
@@cals2889 bro replied year later
People keep replying to my 10 year old comments on this site lmao
@@cals2889 yeah dude I know. It’s funny
@@litigation_jackson that's how you know it was a good comment
At 6:00, well there are beetles in these areas. There is specifically one in a cave in Mohgwyn Dynasty that drops the Blood Tax ash of war, there are a few in the Haligtree that drop hp and fp (dunno if those count for your theory), there are three in Deeproot Depths that drop upgrade materials and one that drops the Golden Land ash of war, and yes, there are few in the Mountaintops though I think it's interesting there's far more in the Snowfields, an area I'd consider more hidden and hard to get to.
My favorite part with Gideon is my second playthrough. Me and my mimic, both of us equipping Hand of Malenia, using the weapon skill at the exact same time, and died before he could do anything. Coolest moment of my life.
I think grace acts differently for different people. We are given a plethora of stuff grace does for us that is unique, like saves not far from bosses. For all we know when we die our memories are funneled into Gideon and that's how he learns all this.
The tree did not work that way. If you die, the tree will distill some valuable Information from you, and make it into a remembrance.
15:10 bro oh my lord I thought this was real dialogue from Gideon and was going crazy.
Maybe he had a glimpse of what happened to Marika after she shattered the ring and also the elden beast. Wouldn't blame him if he's cowering in fear and lost hope of becoming a lord. In his mind, ya can't defeat the elden beast, so he might as stop you from even trying. Master Hewg tho has quite the task. He probably had a glimpse of Marika and the elden beast too and this is why he's going through with job imposed to him to the very end.
I think this is exactly right, especially with Hewg’s obsession of forging a weapon able to kill a god. I don’t think Gideon is evil (exactly) or part of some grand plot, just a fellow tarnished trying to become lord by any means necessary.
@@zergray6851 I mean, considering what he did to find one half of the Haligtree medallion and his apathy towards his own adopted daughter I wouldn't consider him a good guy. He will use whatever means at his disposal to achieve his goal, even if that means killing a whole a village in search of an item.
@@zergray6851 no Gideon is definitely evil, he slaughtered an entire village of innocent Albinaurics just to find one half of the medallion and cast away his own daughter when she tried to confront him
@@dracothemighty Hes not apathetic towards her though. Why does he go out of his way to thank us for helping her if he doesnt care? Despite the appearances he puts on, he clearly cares about her at least a little bit
@@lilricebowl9731 This is, in fact, how an antivillain works. They do evil acts in order to reach a "Greater good" Which is basically exactly what gideon seems to be doing. Plus, I get the feeling it was moreso he told ensha to retrieve the medallion by any means necessary, also why ensha attacked us too soon
What makes Gideon think he has a chance after seeing us defeat every single boss/mini boss 😂
Yeah, dude knows we kicked Radahn's, Malenia's and Maliketh's ass, but he thinks he can take us? Kinda delusional if you ask me
@@justhair17 to be fair, dude was taking their powers so he likely thought using all of their powers together would be able to put us down
I don't think Gideon was being a rational actor at this point. I think it's clear he saw something that completely changed his mind on becoming Elden Lord. He wasn't intending to Kill you, there was just no other choice left but to fight in his eyes. From his point of view, you're not gonna win. No man can kill a god.
Course he forgot he's in a Japanese video game.
Gideon would make a amazing Reddit mod.
Hearing the Skyrim music in the background of this Elden ring video just made my day 🔥🐉🗡️ Subbed lol 🤘
The connection to the bugs is interesting and I never thought of that. A lot of them drop ashes of war or spells, which can both be considered a type of 'knowledge' he could be collecting. Also if they pick up some smithing stone along the way, that only helps him get stronger to fight anyone getting too far
Slight correction, Gideon actually wasn't planning to kill you in the start he just wanted a tarnished to become Elden Lord, that's why he gives you information and helps you. But before leaving the roundtable hold when it was burning he learned something about Marika and her will that made him change his mind. Even if he beat you he wouldn't try to become elden lord for that fact
This!! I feel like people miss this detail
what was marikas will?
He did try and send ensha to kill you when you found the secret medallion
@@reecejones2994 ensha got “ahead of himself”
@@thefatherinthecave943 yeah which means "act prematurely". He was always planning on killing you, ensha just acted on plans that were a little in the future. Essentially it should have both been Gideon and ensha in that fight at the end, if Ensha hadnt been rash and tried to ambush you.
This video with the Skyrim backdrop music is just….man- the feelings.
He knows this stuff because of the remembrances we bring back from the bosses we defeat, which we know are in the hold because the finger reader crone has the items for sale.
If you go to mougues blood temple but don't kill him, Gideon won't have blood magic because you haven't gotten the remembrance.
@@TheR3dline isn't it only if you tell him about it?
I might have to agree. Would’ve been a cool cutscene to fight Godfrey in the Ashen Capitol. He’s walking down carrying Morgott in the cutscene. Would’ve made for a cool boss arena.
Then you get to area before the erdtree and Gideon is sitting on the throne as a pretender.
1st phase Gideon is his own unique move set. 2nd phase he starts spamming all the Demi god moves
Besides, I’m pretty sure Gideon’s arena is where you fight Godfrey’s golden spirit version earlier, so it would fit thematically.
And fight Godfrey in the Ashen Capital would bring a lot of Slave Knight Gaël vibes!! You got ashes, you got embers with the burning tree, perfect way for a Tarnished to shit himself..
other way around, first he spams demi god stuff then second phase bustss out his own moves that he created thru all the knowledge, cause in theory a moveset you havent faced yet would be harder
Gideon actually got his powers from your conversations with him. The more you talk to him about what you’ve done the more he knows when you fight. Great video. That’s the only part I feel ya missed on.
The thought of having to fight Gideon in that small little hallway if he was instead placed after Godfrey, makes ME shudder in fear.
Ohhh helllllll nuuuu
Tbh if he was monologueing like he was before, he can easily be ome shot before he can even do anything
A long narrow arena more like what Gwendolyn had would probably have worked to his advantage
One of the really disturbing things about Gideon is how secretive he is. Aside from Patches, for obvious reasons, he's kind of the only character that deliberately tries to hide their intentions. Sure, some of them don't outright tell you everything about them, but Gideon distorts the truth for his own gain. So yeah, Gideon is the most fitting character in Elden Ring to be called a villain.
15:33 there is no way that’s real 😭
I would uave loved to see a larger scale battle against Gideon. I've always beat him to death in a few hits since he staggers. I wish he warped away or something to smack a few more spells out, as I never saw the differences the two tines we fought. He was gone too fast. Needs buff.
He's supposed to just be a speedbump to show you how powerful your character has become. Gideon was (to most new players) the most experienced tarnished in the lands between as he literally controls the roundtable hold, so when he stands to fight you and you 4 hit him into the ground, it's to show how far you've come and how strong you are.
he's mostly a glasscannon as he can kill in 2-3 hits with 50 vigor with most of his spells but he's also really weak
In my first playthrough I was a mage and oh boy, let me tell you, it's not a good idea to trade spells with Gideon, even with 60 vigor he took me around 8 tries.
He doesn't need a buff to damage or health, just more heals and a teleport to counter melee builds that stagger him
@@LeoSengerRyanCooper That's exactly the kind of buff I would want for him; maneuverability moveset. It's great thematically to fight him in Godfrey's chamber, but it's a limited recycling and I wish there was a little more verticality since he's a Mage; the arena is just a bad fit for his cast style since there is little wiggle room with his poor maneuverability. Petal Whips shred him.
@@LeoSengerRyanCooper The way he can cast a fully charged comet in the time you take to cast glintstone pebble.
thanks for the video about the theory man, it makes me so happy to see a theory that we came up with growing like this and being shared around the world
I’ve been talking with Vanesa. Unfortunately, I didn’t see your Reddit post. I’ve just heard this theory from random comments I’ve received on videos and community posts for a couple weeks now, where they likely heard that from your Reddit post. But I would like to put your post in the pinned comment and description for people to read. All the best 👍
@@agtjake It's great, thank you very much! It's normal and I believe you, I really do, it's normal when we are all trying to participate and discover, information is flying from one to another and that's good ! In the end the important thing is that we all build together, and this video certainly does that! That makes me happy, it also makes me happy that we can talk about this in a super friendly way. Sorry if we makes you feel bad in some way, not intended. Hugs Jake
@@agtjake you know the last dialogue is parody right?
what the hell was that secret dialog, didn't know Gideon was such a freaky boy
To add to Gideon's possible list of crimes, Ensha may be a puppet made by Selivus, which would explain his demeanor.
Its they were once being friend together until Selivus made a puppet from one the rival/friends of Gideon
When you go into the game files and remove his armor, it seems hes a Nightfolk, which is super interesting considering the albinauric implications.
I think the symbols change because there different ranks of beatles. Gideon won't just have 1 type of spy he'll have different types suited for different areas and marking them with a altered insignia is just his way of telling them apart and being able to locate them.
He wouldn't still use an eye if he was trying to hide his presence, he's the all knowing so he's gathering all types of information not specifically the tarnished.
This was very similar to my own headcanon. Every time you bring back information that the "All Knowing" was seemingly unaware of, he teaches you a new skill - and in turn, the player is "teaching" Gideon a new skill for him to use when you encounter him in Leyndell.
15:45: What did I just hear?
@@BradJames83 yea what
that's probably a reference to a reddit post, where a man stuck a my little pony figure in a glass jar and filled it with his "tarnished seed".😂😂😂😂
I really like the Gideon boss fight but I think it would've been even color if he used attacks that counters your current character build
Ofnir means "inciter" and Gideon means "one who cuts down". I think that explains itself.
Could Gideon be trying to stop anyone from becoming Elden Lord, because that would change the Land, and if the Land changes instead of remaining in it's current stasis, then Gideon cannot become All Knowing.
With 'er four arms think of all the things that she could do to it - your tarnished tackle 😂
I honestly wish that in Gideon’s boss fight he had more health, I really enjoy his fight and I think it’s really cool how he uses boss spells
I didn't enjoyed the fight. I smashed him with a massive bonk weapon that was equipped with frostbite/bloodhound step and just 3 hits he's fooking gone into eternity.
@@eetfuk3571 well if you finished it in 3 seconds of course you didn’t enjoy it
@@rengokiri I let him fight me in my NG+ and he's actually cool though. but, kind of glass cannon.
I summon my mimic and it smashed him, the only instance in the game where I use summon. It was funny
The first time I busted out laughing in elden ring is when the player messages describe enshia as just edgey💀
edge,
lord
15:36 well now the fact that he is watching us all the time is even more disturbing 😵💫
I literally just figured out something, the Recusant Henricus you fight outside the colosseum in storm hill is the owner of the chainmail armor you find in Rykard's boss room. He was the eyes and ears of Gideon but eventually betrayed him and joined the Volcano manor after he had no doubt sent him there to act as his spy.
I wonder if those beetles are essentially just cameras that Gideon can create utilizing magic and can disappear back into nothing once noticed. This could also somewhat explain why you receive ashes of war, or incantations, etc. because you recognized one of Gideons “drones” and managed to destroy it before it could disappear which allowed you to peer into a small portion of Gideons mind and steal some information from him
The problem with that is that some beetles can also give you Smithing Stones. I doubt looking into someone's mind would magically give you stones to upgrade your weapon with.
One of Gideon's earliest dialogue lines is: "I'm sick and tired of them. These namby-pamby Tarnished think us no more than a shelter from the rain..."
Up until I saw him in the Ashen Capital at the end, I spent my whole first playthrough checking his room, seeing he was still in there and thinking, "Little namby-pamby bitch. You're one to talk."
Meanwhile I first met Rogier deep inside Stormveil and he died from exploring the deepest parts of it.
I first met D out in Limgrave, actively fighting those who live in death and working with Gurranq.
The incantation dude, I forget his name, leaves to find Goldmask in Altus and follows him all around the world afterward.
His 'daughter' is deep inside Stormveil, helps you fight Godrick, and then travels even deeper in to Liurnia.
Even Fia leaves before Gideon does, going to Deeproot Depths.
He has Ensha playing bodyguard for him EVEN IN THE SAFE ZONE.
Gideon's the most narcissistic hypocrite the Lands Between has ever seen lol