54:35 Oh man I love this idea of the fairies around the campfire so much. Things that angels desire to look into.. “There’s not a lot of pathos if you’re gonna live forever. Humans have a strange charisma to them because they know that their time is limited.”
Oh yes! True Christianity brings you closer to that kind of possibility, that kind of wonder. This is it. This is what the church needs. Awe. It is the beginning of wisdom.
8:20 Shari's...kinda....coming back out again. And yes, I very much agree about this center/fringe relationship. When the center is unstable and off, look to the fringe. But if everyone becomes fringe...there is no center or the center will have to die and be reborn.
Be-holding. Be and hold. Pick up the pieces of your life, turn them around in your hands, look at them from every angle. Hold them in your field vision, hold them there, contemplation. Reminds me so much of this excerpt from the Wise Woman by George MacDonald. Won’t you give me a little flower, please, you beautiful child?” “There they are; they are all for you,” answered the child, pointing with her outstretched arm and forefinger all round. “But you told me, a minute ago, not to touch them.” “Yes, indeed, I did.” “They can’t be mine, if I’m not to touch them.” “If, to call them yours, you must kill them, then they are not yours, and never, never can be yours. They are nobody’s when they are dead.” “But you don’t kill them.” “I don’t pull them; I throw them away. I live them.” “How is it that you make them grow?” “I say, ‘You darling!’ and throw it away and there it is.” “Where do you get them?” “In my lap.” “I wish you would let me throw one away.” “Have you got any in your lap? Let me see.” “No; I have none.” “Then you can’t throw one away, if you haven’t got one.” Be holding.
This aspect of "feeling a bit lost" is one of the manifestations of the recent crises we've been through (Covid, politics, etc.). I also see it myself and many others in my circles. I do often sense there is something groping at us to transform, but until we get out of our own way, this can't happen in a fruitful way. I always consider that there is too much for us to unlearn and relearn to find our soul again, and the current technocratic world is not very conducive for this. There is no question that history is intensifying to an undefinable climax.
what rivets me with that is there is only one solution, to drain that grail to the dregs. lord, that this cup may pass from me... and yet, it is the human contribution and cooperation with cosmic dialysis that is the only answer. we wish this time hadn't come, but so do all who live to see such times. we refresh the grail with our own lives for our friends and future... mulling shower thoughts here...
Lovely conversation. Something that I have been thinking about- this idea of Christianity needing Camelot - a sense of adventure and quest. The charismatic church does this after a fashion - the idea that you have a unique special destiny is punted often, but it has actually become one of the things that turned me off charismatic churches. Perhaps because it has become somewhat of a commodification- 7 steps to unlock your destiny if you buy this book kinda thing - but it has also filled young people with grandiose notions, and sowed seeds of discontent. Why should you live the boring life ( the quite life Paul spoke of in Thessalonians), the drudgery of 9 to 5 ( working with your hands) and raising and supporting a family - when you could be chasing some prophetic word about what great work you could be doing for God. People have moved across country and broken their families over such things. What does Camelot actually look like in Christianity? When is not co-opted by the “American dream” of success? Is it all inner life mysticism? Would love to sit down with Martin in a pub.
Listening to this discussion from Sebastopol California. Loved this discussion. I too am feeling much uncertainty in my life and am taking a deeper dive into my own spirituality. Lots of beautiful thoughts were shared that will fertilize my imagination. thank you both 🌺
Great conversation filled with many synchronicities of thinking. I live in Port Townsend and attend the Orthodox Church here. I’d be all for getting Martin back out here. I’ve got the perfect venue in mind for a Grail-worthy table-side chat.
Biologically sight is primary, but hearing tells us where to look, and when we interact with what we see, hearing and touch can correct what we see. For instance you knock on something that looks solid and you can hear that it is hollow. Pick it up and you feel the lightness of the thing that looked heavy.
I love that idea. We recognize a song or a piece of music by its first three notes. Researchers just published findings that chimps have individual pant hoots and drummings on trees that make them recognizable over long distances. Bonobos sing in polyphony. It is thought that the Venus of Laussel is holding an idiophone, that the striations on the horn make a noise when scratched. The Upper Paleolithic cave paintings, according to Iain Morley, are almost always near the point of lithophonic resonance in the caves. I thought that was such a good intuition about hearing, that this is ancient, millions of years old, and seeing has failed us as a primary perceptual mode somehow, left us lost. Music is in the right hemisphere, and may be part of a divine return of sorts, the first three notes of a holy return. The Waterboys, Bring 'em all in th-cam.com/video/MxPl9Ka4yD4/w-d-xo.html
1:01:37 huh… shmall kine reveals the potential ironic modernity of Pageau (or of why people are flocking to Pageau)-making symbolism and story a science to understand and a utility to deploy.
31:19 my disagreement with this is the subtle dichotomy of masculine = male and feminine = female, especially when speaking of things outside of humanity, and most especially when speaking of HaShem. masculine and feminine are perfectly and equally bound within the Son, as well as in all three Persons of the G-dhead for that matter-He also Transcends such creaturely labels. additionally, the Son is the Wisdom of HaShem, and so Sophia-if not referring to the Son and instead the Created member of the Divine Council-is merely in the Image of Wisdom Who is the Son. the way Christ engaged with humanity was commonly as a mother and as a feminine asker/inviter Who facilitated men and women alike to deploy their masculine and enter into His feminine. similarly, all of Creation was Created through Him, as the Father’s Source-ness entered into the Son’s Image-ness to Conceive of Creation by the Spirit’s Uniter-ness.
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23:55
“How do I find something by an act of will that I previously located by an act of grace?”
Wow. What a question/quest.
"people are defined by how they experience limit" - fascinating.
12:50
Dreaming, so good 👍🏻
Psalm 126;1
When the LORD brought back the captivity of Zion, We were like those who dream.
54:35
Oh man I love this idea of the fairies around the campfire so much. Things that angels desire to look into..
“There’s not a lot of pathos if you’re gonna live forever. Humans have a strange charisma to them because they know that their time is limited.”
Great one!
Listening to this was like eating rich complex chocolate pudding with a spoon. Food for the soul. Outstanding. Thank you Nate and Martin.
Oh yes! True Christianity brings you closer to that kind of possibility, that kind of wonder. This is it. This is what the church needs. Awe. It is the beginning of wisdom.
"live a life interesting enough for the fairies to talk about."
now there's a mission. 😊
Bloody BRILLIANT Both...Thank you!
He's doing an event with Paul Kingsnorth at the Priory in November. I heard his name but nice to see him here.
Yes, still hope to get Paul of Grail Country. Hopefully he'll get a good report from Martin.
8:20 Shari's...kinda....coming back out again.
And yes, I very much agree about this center/fringe relationship. When the center is unstable and off, look to the fringe. But if everyone becomes fringe...there is no center or the center will have to die and be reborn.
Was just acquainted with this brilliance on The Common Toad!
Common Toad is great. Been meaning to talk with him for a while.
Be-holding. Be and hold. Pick up the pieces of your life, turn them around in your hands, look at them from every angle. Hold them in your field vision, hold them there, contemplation. Reminds me so much of this excerpt from the Wise Woman by George MacDonald.
Won’t you give me a little flower, please, you beautiful child?”
“There they are; they are all for you,” answered the child, pointing with her outstretched arm and forefinger all round.
“But you told me, a minute ago, not to touch them.”
“Yes, indeed, I did.”
“They can’t be mine, if I’m not to touch them.”
“If, to call them yours, you must kill them, then they are not yours, and never, never can be yours. They are nobody’s when they are dead.”
“But you don’t kill them.”
“I don’t pull them; I throw them away. I live them.”
“How is it that you make them grow?”
“I say, ‘You darling!’ and throw it away and there it is.”
“Where do you get them?”
“In my lap.”
“I wish you would let me throw one away.”
“Have you got any in your lap? Let me see.”
“No; I have none.”
“Then you can’t throw one away, if you haven’t got one.”
Be holding.
This aspect of "feeling a bit lost" is one of the manifestations of the recent crises we've been through (Covid, politics, etc.). I also see it myself and many others in my circles. I do often sense there is something groping at us to transform, but until we get out of our own way, this can't happen in a fruitful way. I always consider that there is too much for us to unlearn and relearn to find our soul again, and the current technocratic world is not very conducive for this. There is no question that history is intensifying to an undefinable climax.
I really love that metaphor of the Earth as our grail and us having poisoned it.
what rivets me with that is there is only one solution, to drain that grail to the dregs. lord, that this cup may pass from me... and yet, it is the human contribution and cooperation with cosmic dialysis that is the only answer. we wish this time hadn't come, but so do all who live to see such times. we refresh the grail with our own lives for our friends and future...
mulling shower thoughts here...
Excellent interview!!!
Lovely conversation. Something that I have been thinking about- this idea of Christianity needing Camelot - a sense of adventure and quest. The charismatic church does this after a fashion - the idea that you have a unique special destiny is punted often, but it has actually become one of the things that turned me off charismatic churches. Perhaps because it has become somewhat of a commodification- 7 steps to unlock your destiny if you buy this book kinda thing - but it has also filled young people with grandiose notions, and sowed seeds of discontent. Why should you live the boring life ( the quite life Paul spoke of in Thessalonians), the drudgery of 9 to 5 ( working with your hands) and raising and supporting a family - when you could be chasing some prophetic word about what great work you could be doing for God. People have moved across country and broken their families over such things. What does Camelot actually look like in Christianity? When is not co-opted by the “American dream” of success? Is it all inner life mysticism? Would love to sit down with Martin in a pub.
Listening to this discussion from Sebastopol California. Loved this discussion. I too am feeling much uncertainty in my life and am taking a deeper dive into my own spirituality. Lots of beautiful thoughts were shared that will fertilize my imagination. thank you both 🌺
great converzation, sirs. thank you both
Great interview
59:25
“Stories are alive. As a storyteller, you don’t want to be working with a pelt, but a wild animal.”
Great conversation filled with many synchronicities of thinking. I live in Port Townsend and attend the Orthodox Church here. I’d be all for getting Martin back out here. I’ve got the perfect venue in mind for a Grail-worthy table-side chat.
Port Townsend is a lovely place. We shall have to see if we can coax Martin back to the PNW.
Do you know the best way to reach Martin to set something up? Sounds like he’ll be coming round North America next year.
"Desparation: It's the world's worst cologne." - from the movie "Singles"
Another fascinating discussion, thanks Nate👍
Thank you Paul
Biologically sight is primary, but hearing tells us where to look, and when we interact with what we see, hearing and touch can correct what we see. For instance you knock on something that looks solid and you can hear that it is hollow. Pick it up and you feel the lightness of the thing that looked heavy.
I love that idea. We recognize a song or a piece of music by its first three notes. Researchers just published findings that chimps have individual pant hoots and drummings on trees that make them recognizable over long distances. Bonobos sing in polyphony. It is thought that the Venus of Laussel is holding an idiophone, that the striations on the horn make a noise when scratched. The Upper Paleolithic cave paintings, according to Iain Morley, are almost always near the point of lithophonic resonance in the caves. I thought that was such a good intuition about hearing, that this is ancient, millions of years old, and seeing has failed us as a primary perceptual mode somehow, left us lost.
Music is in the right hemisphere, and may be part of a divine return of sorts, the first three notes of a holy return. The Waterboys, Bring 'em all in th-cam.com/video/MxPl9Ka4yD4/w-d-xo.html
Beautiful.
where the magic is, indeed
"Beauty will save the world."
-Dostoevsky
Percival is my favorite Knight
“Jesus didn’t have a hold of my reason” that basically explains my late teens
33:50 Relationship of soul/spirit.
The soul is the womb of the spirit. The Breath of God in us/me/you. Christ being born in me.
wow... let's shift from getting comfortable with uncertainty to navigating mystery. same reality, different orientation and relationship with it.
“The road of excess leads to the palace of wisdom” is profound. It’s the patter of the wise king. King Solomon the wise….
Phantastes baptized Lewis’s imagination, to be precise. 😄
Dreaming, yes. Amen. Vision is included in the Dream or the Memory of God.
1:01:37 huh… shmall kine reveals the potential ironic modernity of Pageau (or of why people are flocking to Pageau)-making symbolism and story a science to understand and a utility to deploy.
6:14 i mean, we have the 4th of July lol
I need to know if Martin loves George MacDonald.
I will ask next time!
We think we are grotesque………how little we understand our sonship and daughterhood.
Where did he get his Doctorate?, I’m dubious.
If you listen to Martin Shaw and your first impulse is to check his credentials I don't know what to say you.
54:00 The tyranny of arbitrary, autonomous, absolute (no constraint) "freedom". This is individualism, the rule of the false self.
31:19 my disagreement with this is the subtle dichotomy of masculine = male and feminine = female, especially when speaking of things outside of humanity, and most especially when speaking of HaShem.
masculine and feminine are perfectly and equally bound within the Son, as well as in all three Persons of the G-dhead for that matter-He also Transcends such creaturely labels.
additionally, the Son is the Wisdom of HaShem, and so Sophia-if not referring to the Son and instead the Created member of the Divine Council-is merely in the Image of Wisdom Who is the Son. the way Christ engaged with humanity was commonly as a mother and as a feminine asker/inviter Who facilitated men and women alike to deploy their masculine and enter into His feminine. similarly, all of Creation was Created through Him, as the Father’s Source-ness entered into the Son’s Image-ness to Conceive of Creation by the Spirit’s Uniter-ness.
First!
I dont mind the Christian tangents but please talk more about Parzival it was barely talked about in any detail
Too many ads now 🤪
You can use an add blocker. It's just TH-cam, the channel is not monetized.
43:55 transformational not transactional.
Eurcharistic not mammonistic.
Beard envy.
Joke aside thank you both for an illuminating episode.
parses the veil